0:01

Since J&K Security Solutions opened in

0:03

1987, our attention to detail and

0:05

customer service have been our strongest

0:07

assets. I'm President Jeffrey Beckman.

0:09

We'll always do our best to find the

0:12

most efficient and cost-effective solution to every job

0:14

we tackle. Whether it's security for

0:16

your home or business, installing video surveillance, or

0:18

being able to control your garage doors from

0:20

your phone, we can help

0:22

you feel empowered with simple and user-friendly technology.

0:25

Let's work together to secure your home

0:28

or business. jksecurity.com For

0:31

nearly four decades, JKSecurity Solutions has

0:33

provided protection for homes and businesses.

0:36

I know firsthand. I'm Jeff Beckman, and with

0:39

my wife, Kim, we started JKSecurity Solutions. Our

0:42

attention to detail, service after the sale, and product

0:44

knowledge are the foundation of our success. JKSecurity

0:47

has routinely been recognized as the best

0:49

of Madison for security companies. We expect

0:51

that trend to continue as the next

0:53

generation our son, Jeffrey, takes over as

0:55

president. Let us protect what is valuable

0:58

to you. jksecurity.com Since

1:03

JKSecurity Solutions opened in 1987, our

1:06

attention to detail and customer service have been our

1:08

strongest assets. I'm President

1:10

Jeffrey Beckman. We'll always do our best to

1:12

find the most efficient and cost-effective solution to

1:14

every job we tackle. Whether

1:17

it's security for your home or business, installing video

1:19

surveillance, or being able to control your garage doors

1:21

from your phone, we

1:23

can help you feel empowered with simple and

1:25

user-friendly technology. Let's work

1:27

together to secure your home or

1:29

business. jksecurity.com While

1:56

in some states your rate could increase with high-risk driving, generally

1:58

safer drivers will save with DriveWise. Allstate Bar and Casually Insurance

2:00

coming in to Philly, North Park, Illinois. Some

2:04

people just know there's a better way to

2:06

do things, like bundling your home and auto

2:08

insurance with Allstate. Or hiring

2:10

someone to move your piano instead of doing

2:12

it yourself. So,

2:17

do things the better way. Bundle home and

2:19

auto and save up to 25% with Allstate.

2:23

Bundled savings vary by state and are not available in every state. Saving

2:26

up to 25% is the countrywide average of the maximum

2:28

available savings off the home policy. Allstate Vehicle and

2:30

Property Insurance Company and affiliates Northbrook, Illinois. Today

2:33

on The Grave Talks, the ghosts

2:36

of the Bridgewater Triangle. A conversation

2:38

with author Christopher Bolzano. For

2:49

years, residents along the Massachusetts- Rhode

2:52

Island border have whispered about the

2:54

mysteries of the Bridgewater Triangle. From

2:57

ghostly apparitions to UFO sightings and

3:00

even whispers of a Bigfoot-like creature, legends

3:03

have been regarding the Bridgewater Triangle's

3:05

array of unexplained phenomena. While

3:09

the Bermuda Triangle may claim fame for vanishing

3:12

ships and aircraft, this

3:14

mysterious triangle exists within the heart of

3:17

the United States. The

3:20

Bridgewater Triangle is a sinister

3:22

expanse in southeastern Massachusetts and

3:25

it continues to fascinate those who

3:27

encounter its mysteries. Today

3:30

on The Grave Talks, the Bridgewater

3:32

Triangle. A conversation with Christopher

3:35

Bolzano, author of the ghosts

3:37

of the Bridgewater Triangle and

3:39

Dark Woods. Cult,

3:41

crime and the paranormal in the

3:44

Freetown State Forest. Well,

3:50

Chris, thank you so much for joining me again. You

3:52

were on The Grave Talks a while

3:55

back and we talked about hunted objects.

3:57

You had written a book, Hunted Objects

3:59

Story. of ghosts on your shelf

4:02

and that's the name of the episode. It

4:04

was ghosts on your shelf. That

4:06

night we got to, I think you mentioned

4:09

the Bridgewater Triangle. I'm like, what is this

4:11

Bridgewater Triangle thing that you speak

4:13

of? So I said maybe you could come back

4:15

and we could talk about it. And you wrote one

4:17

book, The Ghosts of the Bridgewater Triangle, and

4:20

there's a second book that seems to me,

4:22

I did not read it, but

4:24

seems like it is also about the

4:26

Bridgewater Triangle. Yeah,

4:29

that's called Dark Woods, Cult, Crime, and the

4:31

Paranormal in the Freetown State Forest. That's actually

4:33

not the first

4:35

book I wrote, but

4:38

officially the first book that was released. It

4:40

was this really weird thing where I had

4:42

written three books over the course of three

4:44

years and Schiffer

4:47

Publishing, they were the

4:49

quickest because they pretty much, if

4:51

your audience knows Schiffer books, they

4:53

were very, very popular in the early 2000s.

4:57

And they just put out a ton of ghost books. Everything

4:59

was like, what street do you live on? Okay, you want

5:01

to write a ghost book about that street? Go ahead. And

5:04

so they published Dark

5:07

Woods and they beat the other two

5:09

actually to be being published. So Dark

5:12

Woods is, if there's one

5:14

book that I wish I

5:17

could go back and redo, and I'm not just

5:19

talking about the grammar, but also

5:21

the exploring

5:24

that question in even more depth

5:26

because the Bridgewater

5:31

Triangle is what I

5:33

probably became known for the most. And

5:36

Freetown, Massachusetts is one of

5:38

the apexes of that triangle. And

5:41

I became obsessed with

5:44

Freetown as kind of

5:46

the perfect

5:48

example of everything that's going on,

5:50

like a microcosm of the Bridgewater

5:52

Triangle was in this small little

5:54

town in Massachusetts that no one

5:57

who doesn't live in Massachusetts and

6:00

unless they're fans of me, so they're not that many,

6:02

don't know this town exists. And yet

6:04

it is so such a

6:07

hot point and a hot

6:09

spot for everything paranormal. So

6:12

explain the Bridgewater Triangle

6:14

geographically, kind of where

6:16

it is, where miles,

6:19

if you know. Yeah, and the important thing to

6:21

know is that when cryptozoologist,

6:23

Lauren Coleman started talking about it

6:25

in the late 70s, and

6:28

then he published mysterious

6:30

America, and it was the first time

6:33

in print for everybody, this

6:35

term Bridgewater Triangle was out there. When

6:38

he established it between

6:40

Freetown, which I already

6:43

said, the town of Rohevith, Massachusetts, and

6:45

then Abington, Abington is one

6:47

place that's like, I've never been in the

6:49

triangle, as these apexes, right? He established it

6:51

as a template. And so

6:54

what happened was, as he was doing

6:56

his research, he was finding

6:58

that there was a ton of unexplained

7:01

things going on that fell into the

7:03

realm of what he was doing as

7:05

a cryptozoologist in

7:07

the towns of Bridgewater, East

7:11

Bridgewater, and West Bridgewater. And as he

7:13

started kind of moving it out, he

7:16

realized that if he

7:18

extended from those towns, these other towns

7:20

that fall on these lines are having

7:22

the same kind of weird stuff going

7:24

on. And so he created

7:26

this area, it's in Southeast Massachusetts.

7:30

When you think Abington, think

7:32

Plymouth. When

7:34

you think of Freetown, think Fall

7:36

River. So, you know, Lizzie Borden

7:39

and all that kind of good

7:41

stuff, and Rhode Island. And

7:43

then think, you know, if you're thinking Rohevith, think Connecticut,

7:46

and there's your triangle. In

7:49

the very center of it, which is of the

7:51

obsession of a lot of people, because it's once

7:53

again so rich, is a place

7:55

known as the Hakamak Swamp. And

7:58

that is really the focus of... a

8:00

lot of the cryptid activity, UFO

8:03

activity, some ghostly

8:05

stories, but much more kind of

8:07

the that's the heart of the

8:09

cryptozoology asset of

8:11

the triangle. And you know, within

8:13

these within these borders, and they

8:15

move, they extend, they're not, they're

8:17

not hardcore, like there was a

8:20

template he was creating, you find

8:22

anything that you're looking for inside

8:24

the paranormal. Yeah,

8:26

that's what I found. I'm sorry

8:28

to interrupt, but I found that so

8:30

interesting. Because within this triangle,

8:32

and it sounds like a little ways out of

8:35

the triangle in that area, it's

8:37

everything from the cryptids

8:39

to the ghosts, to UFOs, to

8:41

all, all of these things happen

8:44

there. Yeah. And the other thing,

8:46

which I think is what makes it so which

8:49

makes it connect with so many people is, if

8:51

you are looking for, if you

8:54

go into the paranormal supernatural with

8:56

a mindset of, you

8:59

know what causes it, you're going to

9:01

find it in the Brougeois triangle too,

9:03

right? So supposedly, ley lines are there,

9:05

you've got all of these rock formations,

9:07

if you're a if you're a stone,

9:10

if you're a stone recording person, if

9:13

you think it has to do with history

9:15

and things like that, you have a lot

9:17

of bloody history that happened in that area

9:19

as well. So whatever your approach is to

9:22

the paranormal, you're also going to find it

9:24

there. So it's, you know, it's a really

9:26

great treasure trove of all this stuff. Because,

9:29

you know, if you're the kind of person

9:31

who thinks like, I'm going to approach this

9:33

from a very scientific, you know, try to

9:35

explain it that way, you're going to

9:37

find that there, right? And if you're

9:39

a spiritual person, you're going to say,

9:41

well, place like Freetown, like people have

9:44

been conducting all types of spell casting

9:46

in the forest for, you know, hundreds

9:48

of years, you're gonna find that there.

9:50

So, you know, it's a it's a

9:52

playground for people who enjoy the weird

9:55

and unusual because it's not it's not

9:57

only there, but the explanations are as

9:59

well. Do you have

10:03

some theories, and I'm

10:06

emphasizing the S on the end of theories,

10:09

about what could cause all

10:11

that activity and that kind

10:14

of diverse activity? So

10:18

it's over the years that I've changed it,

10:20

right? And over the

10:22

years, my approach to the supernatural and the paranormal

10:24

has changed too. And

10:27

the more you look, the more it changes

10:29

and the more it taunts

10:33

you, the bridge-water triangle taunts you and it

10:35

marks you. And it has all these things.

10:38

And so the only comparable

10:40

description of it is

10:44

it's a living, breathing thing. The

10:48

bridge-water triangle is not one

10:50

thing and it's not vortexes.

10:54

That's a

10:56

great explanation for the type of stuff. And

10:59

I think that kind of stuff goes on in

11:01

the triangle. And it's not

11:03

curses, although I think those things go

11:06

on in the triangle. I think it's

11:08

the belly of something. It truly is

11:10

a living, breathing thing

11:12

because when you look at it,

11:15

and the people who do look at it, they're marked.

11:20

And there are people who investigate all the

11:22

time there, right? But

11:24

they don't live and breathe the triangle, right?

11:29

They haven't

11:31

devoted themselves. That's probably the best word. I'll

11:33

give you a great example. Jeff

11:36

Belanger, right? One of

11:38

my best friends. He

11:40

is considered in the

11:43

media to be like one of the experts on the

11:45

bridge-water triangle. He's in the

11:47

documentary with me and all this stuff like that. But

11:51

Jeff is a reporter, right? He

11:53

goes in, talks about these things, does more

11:55

research than the person next to him. Brilliant

11:57

guy. Do you know who Jeff Belanger is?

12:00

or in my, right? You

12:02

know, he invented ghost trilogy, where he goes, right.

12:04

So he

12:06

does stuff in the Ridgeward Triangle and he moves on to something

12:09

else, right? And when

12:11

he's called upon to talk about the Ridgeward Triangle,

12:13

he comes, right, talks

12:15

about it, he goes on and he does

12:17

the next thing he's working on. Those of

12:19

us who really devoted ourselves to asking those

12:22

questions of the triangle, we all

12:24

have messed up lives, right?

12:26

So if you, it's funny, if you

12:29

go down, there is a documentary called

12:32

the Ridgeward Triangle. And

12:34

if you go down the list of the people who

12:37

are in that, I'm thinking of the panel

12:39

that we did right after the

12:41

movie, the documentary came out. We're

12:43

all divorced, right? We're

12:46

all reaching this weird stump crete,

12:49

in our professional prepare normal lives

12:51

and things like that. Like

12:53

it wants you to come in, it

12:56

wants you to know it, it wants people to

12:59

hear the whispers of it, but

13:01

it doesn't wanna reveal

13:03

itself. So in the past, we'll say

13:05

15 years, I've probably

13:07

had at least 200 production

13:10

companies approach me wanting

13:12

to do either an episode of their

13:14

show about the Ridgeward Triangle or a

13:16

whole thing about the Ridgeward Triangle and

13:19

it never works, it never works. I mean,

13:21

I'm talking 200 approaches and

13:24

there are people who have more than me, right? Because

13:26

they're still up there, 200 approaches and

13:29

it never comes on television.

13:31

There's three episodes on

13:34

television because it hides its secrets. So if you were

13:36

to, if I was gonna take a step back and

13:38

be like, okay, what is something that tempts you but

13:41

doesn't wanna, that's a creature, right?

13:44

That's an animal itself. So

13:47

I think all of these little facets

13:49

of the Ridgeward Triangle, be they

13:51

the ghosts, the zombies, the

13:54

Bigfoot sightings, the UFOs,

13:56

all that stuff is just the

13:59

theater. of the belly of this beast

14:02

that has a consciousness

14:04

and has a really,

14:06

really dark desire.

14:09

Has this been something that people

14:12

in your part of the country have known

14:14

about forever because I haven't been familiar with

14:16

it, but then I live in the middle

14:18

of the US. First

14:20

of all, thank you very much for calling

14:23

Massachusetts still my part of the world, even

14:25

though I don't live there. That's

14:27

true. I'm going back soon. I

14:31

only have four more years left of my Florida

14:33

sentence that I can go back home.

14:36

The deal is that there

14:38

are people inside the triangle who don't, who've

14:41

never heard of the triangle. So

14:43

it's not like people are walking around with

14:46

like, hi, I survived the triangle.

14:49

They're not wearing the t-shirt. They're not wearing

14:51

the t-shirts or they don't have the buttons.

14:55

However, the way the

14:57

triangle has kind of evolved is, like

14:59

I said, Lauren Coleman did his thing

15:03

and it was always kind of in the background.

15:06

And then in the late 90s, early

15:08

2000s, I started my

15:10

website, which at that

15:13

time was called Massachusetts Paranormal Crossroads. And

15:15

I had this book, 1994, this amazing

15:18

book, even if you're not from New England, like

15:20

it's a must read. It's called New England Ghost

15:22

Files. And it was

15:24

by this anthropologist from Harvard who has since

15:27

passed, which is its own conspiracy and its

15:29

own weird thing having to do with this

15:31

guy. And

15:34

what I didn't know at the time was that

15:36

he was a reporter. In addition

15:38

to that, he wrote a little weekly column

15:40

for the Rahobis. I

15:43

can't remember what it's called, the Rahobis Journal or whatever it is,

15:45

the little paper there. And he would

15:47

publish some of these ghost stories that he got from

15:49

people in the town. Well, when I

15:51

went out there, one Halloween,

15:53

we took a whole bunch of stories from that

15:56

book and we went out and we

15:58

legend tripped all the, like we visited all the them if

16:00

it says to do this, we did this, we

16:02

visited probably one night, you

16:04

know, seven or eight extremely

16:07

haunted places in one

16:09

town, right? And

16:13

when I started putting what we had done

16:15

and their experiences up on my website, it

16:18

was crazy the responses I was getting, right?

16:20

Because people were searching on the

16:22

internet, because that was one of the first, you

16:24

know, ghost, Massachusetts ghost sites, right?

16:27

People were, I was getting all these emails,

16:29

getting all these hits on it. And I'm

16:31

like, Oh, my word, like the rest of

16:33

my site, which was not about that area,

16:35

would get no traction, but that stuff would.

16:38

What happened was, I

16:40

then started going out more in that area.

16:42

And I reconnected with

16:44

a friend of mine who I didn't even

16:46

know was into the paranormal at all, I

16:48

should say, you know, he's a UFO encrypted

16:50

investigator, we'd worked with each other for years,

16:53

and didn't know we were both doing the same

16:55

thing, you don't say like that we weren't just

16:57

making, you know, food in a restaurant that we

16:59

actually had that night we're doing this. And

17:02

if you ask me, it's him and I

17:05

publishing our stuff in the late 90s and

17:08

early 2000s, which made the

17:11

Bridgewater Triangle start

17:13

to gain even more momentum. So

17:16

now fast forward to 2025, I

17:19

think people who are inside of the

17:21

triangle know about it. People who

17:23

are in New England definitely know about it

17:25

as well. And then there's

17:27

a lot of people around the country who

17:29

do know about it. I get you know,

17:31

emails and I get questions from every

17:34

single state in the union pretty

17:37

much including Kansas. And

17:39

so I think it's one of those things where

17:41

it makes so much sense. And it's so much

17:43

like, it's almost like

17:46

an extreme example of what people are

17:48

experiencing in whatever state that they're in,

17:50

that they eventually do the things they

17:52

search for find the Bridgewater Triangle. I'm

17:56

not saying I'm not saying that you know, you're not

17:58

in the know, I'm just saying you know. I

18:01

know you can say that.

18:03

I just not know everything.

18:06

No, yeah, like I think, you know, and of course, there's

18:09

one huge documentary about it,

18:12

which is, you know, very,

18:14

very, very popular, that

18:17

people reference all the time, like, Oh, do you remember when you

18:19

said this? And I'm like, did

18:21

I say that 15 years ago? Okay, yeah,

18:24

all right. But

18:26

it, you know, I think that, um,

18:28

I think when people start to

18:30

connect things in wherever they are,

18:32

the theory and the idea of

18:34

a triangle comes up, and

18:37

then they look to other triangles

18:39

that are infamous. And

18:41

the number one got to

18:44

be obviously the Bermuda triangle, which, you know,

18:46

really, the bridge wire triangle was named after

18:48

that. And then you've

18:50

got like, there's one in Michigan, there's

18:52

one in Alaska. Um,

18:54

and then it's the bridge wire triangle. And of them,

18:57

I think the bridge wire triangle other than

18:59

Bermuda triangle is probably the most well known.

19:02

I found the whole concept

19:05

of this triangle fascinating, because I

19:07

think, regionally, every

19:10

place has its stories, you know, I

19:13

can't think of like, what Bigfoot would be

19:15

here in Kansas, but like in Missouri, it's

19:17

the Mo Mo monster or something. They

19:19

don't talk about it in terms of that

19:22

area has the Mo Mo monster, it also

19:24

has UFOs, and it

19:26

has other odd cryptids and

19:29

pugwudgies and all these various

19:32

and ghostly hauntings. That's

19:34

what I found really interesting about

19:36

this. It has everything. I

19:39

think what what makes it

19:41

different, right? And so I can't

19:44

speak on the cryptids and UFOs, because I think

19:46

those, those kinds

19:48

of stories are pretty straightforward. For

19:52

the most part, in terms of like, here's a

19:54

story, here's what witnesses said, there you go. You

19:57

don't get a lot of emotions.

20:00

how did that impact you when you're

20:02

talking about, you know, a

20:04

Thunderbird? Right? It might be,

20:07

I was scared, I felt this, but it's pretty

20:09

much the mythology

20:11

is built on experiences, right? And

20:13

you don't, you know, no matter how much you want

20:16

to try, and I've done it here with with

20:18

people in Florida, on the trail

20:20

of skunk ape, which is our version of Bigfoot,

20:23

right? It's, it's hit or miss,

20:26

right? Whereas a haunted location, you

20:29

can approach it from so many different

20:31

ways, and you might get something and,

20:33

you know, it's, in my opinion, the

20:35

the art of investigating is

20:38

much less precise, right? But

20:41

the, the when I, when

20:43

I would do these stories, when I would

20:46

get people's stories, and

20:48

I always use this example. And so

20:50

it was probably in the book you read, right? If

20:52

there are two people in a bar, and they

20:54

get into a fight, and one

20:56

shoots the other one, and then 20 years

20:59

later, there's now a ghost story about the guy

21:01

who got shot, right? And he

21:04

moves the bar mugs, and

21:06

he does this and that, and you know,

21:08

pull up, pull up a buy drink yourself,

21:11

and I'll tell you the story, right? And

21:13

so you do that. There's

21:15

an explanation. There's a background story,

21:17

there's a, there's

21:19

a reason for it. That

21:22

is almost never the

21:24

case in a Bridgewater Triangle story. The

21:27

ghosts that are there have this context,

21:30

and maybe there's a history attached to

21:32

it. But it doesn't make

21:34

sense, right? And more

21:36

times than not, as you

21:38

start looking into it, you find that the

21:41

activity itself has existed for however

21:43

long, and people have more created

21:45

folklore about why it goes on.

21:47

And you can verify that that

21:49

kind of stuff happened, right? But

21:51

there's a lot of this

21:53

kind of stuff, which is inside the

21:56

Bridgewater Triangle. And this is what Dark

21:58

Woods really was looking at. Inside

22:01

the Bridgewater Triangle, the towns on the Bridgewater

22:03

Triangle, there at the time, at least

22:05

when I was doing my research, there was a

22:07

higher level of divorce in that area. There

22:10

was a higher level of teen suicide. There

22:12

was a higher level of

22:15

mental health disorder being reported. Highway

22:18

24, which was essentially the backbone of the

22:21

Bridgewater Triangle, it goes through the whole thing.

22:24

It was by leaps and

22:27

bounds in Massachusetts, which has

22:29

Massachusetts drivers who had

22:32

the most fatalities per car

22:34

accident. Bridgewater

22:36

State Hospital, the mental health facility

22:38

there, which became infamous because of

22:40

its abuse of patients. There was

22:43

a documentary that covered the whole

22:45

thing that was so horrific, it's

22:47

scarier than anything you could watch having

22:50

to do with ghosts or monsters. At

22:52

one point, the suicide rate inside

22:54

that hospital was 10 times

22:57

higher than the national

22:59

average for other mental health facilities.

23:03

You had all of this

23:05

crazy stuff, the number of

23:08

serial killers who have found

23:10

the Bridgewater Triangle

23:13

to be their home. The number of

23:16

connected and yet not

23:19

unsolved murders where somewhere in

23:21

the triangle was the dumping ground is ridiculously

23:24

high. It seems

23:26

to be this dark energy that

23:29

emanates, attracts, cycles through.

23:32

You don't necessarily have that in someplace like

23:34

the Bennington Triangle, which is a few hundred

23:36

miles away from it. You don't have it

23:38

in the Tampa Triangle. I always

23:40

tell my students, for

23:43

those people who don't know, I'm an English

23:45

teacher. I'm teaching them to write

23:47

essays and things. I'm always like the

23:50

most stable or the first real stable thing

23:52

you have is a tripod,

23:54

right? Like it's a three-legged table or

23:56

whatever it might be. You've got to

23:58

make three arguments, right? It's the

24:00

same kind of thing here. If you have one

24:02

point, it's haunting. If

24:05

you have two points, it's a straight line.

24:07

If you have three points, you now have

24:10

something that pulses. You

24:12

now have some kind of stability. You

24:14

now have triangulation, literally. And so that

24:16

makes what happens inside that triangle more

24:19

valid. And that's

24:21

the kind of stuff that I think we

24:24

search for that in our paranormal,

24:26

because it helps to make sense of something that

24:28

doesn't make sense. But in the

24:30

Bridgewater Triangle, what's inside there is unique

24:33

from the stuff that's even 40, 50

24:35

miles outside of it. Now,

24:40

there's a lot of different, obviously, because

24:42

it's a pretty good sized geographical area.

24:45

So there's a lot of different things to explore

24:47

within it. But it sounds like one of the,

24:50

especially with the cryptid activity

24:52

and stuff in the UFOs, that's

24:55

this hakamak swamp. It

24:57

was 17,000 acres. So

25:01

it's a densely wooded area. Obviously,

25:03

it's swampy. That's in the name. It

25:09

translates to the place where spirits

25:11

lie, or the place where spirits

25:13

are. Or if it's the

25:15

later translations, once it got its reputation was,

25:18

its modern reputation was this place where

25:20

dark spirits are, which is not what

25:22

it translates to, literally. But

25:25

it's definitely this place that

25:28

is primeval and primordial, I

25:30

should say. You

25:32

can go in there, and you can feel

25:35

as if you've gone back in time,

25:37

because so much of the hakamak is,

25:42

there's no kind of civilization

25:46

there. There's no kind of making

25:49

things. There's no kind of businesses that are

25:51

set up there. Every once

25:53

in a while, and this might be, as

25:55

we're recording this, they might change this. They've

25:58

tried time and time again. to put

26:01

the trains, what's called the T in

26:04

Massachusetts, to put the commuter rail through

26:07

the Hockamock. And

26:09

that has, every once in a while, every

26:11

five years, I get some newspaper that's like,

26:13

what do you think will happen when they

26:15

put the trains in? So

26:18

it's really not developed, and therefore, because

26:20

it hasn't been developed, and it's got

26:23

these islands, and even the islands themselves

26:25

that are within the swamp, they

26:28

seem almost as if these islands are

26:30

sometimes their own little worlds, right? And so

26:33

it does seem like going back in time,

26:35

and so that leaves for a lot of

26:37

creepy things to go on. But

26:40

then also, whenever you're

26:42

dealing with something, think

26:44

about waking up at three

26:46

in the morning, going

26:48

outside, you're walking your dog or whatever, and

26:51

you hear the strangest noises in the world,

26:53

especially if you don't usually walk your dog

26:55

at three o'clock. And so

26:57

your mind starts to race. So I think

26:59

there's a really strong combination of weird things

27:01

that are in there, and then things

27:03

that people are just not used to. And

27:06

so it automatically, they

27:08

start to have these visions

27:10

of monsters there. Well,

27:13

and I read, like, they

27:16

talk about Bigfoot sightings, and

27:18

gigantic raptors like moss men,

27:21

and one, because this

27:23

gave me the creeps. Demon dogs. Yeah,

27:25

demon dogs and giant snakes.

27:28

And I'm like, the

27:30

Bigfoot, I never

27:32

know where I fall on that because I've never

27:34

seen a Bigfoot. So I don't know, you know,

27:36

I don't have experience there. But the

27:39

giant snakes, that kind

27:41

of makes some sense to me. Maybe

27:43

you can human dog. Right, I mean, it would, right?

27:46

And of all that stuff, like, you know, if

27:48

you talk to Lord Coleman, he'll be like the

27:50

greatest moment in cryptozoology history. And

27:52

I'm probably paraphrasing, he would be pissed that I

27:55

would say this, but like, I've heard him say

27:57

something like this. It's like when

27:59

they discovered. the giant squid and when

28:01

they discovered like the red haired orangutan

28:04

because these things were previously thought

28:06

to not exist. And that's what

28:08

cryptozoology is, right? The study of

28:10

hidden or unknown creatures, right? It's

28:12

not, we think cryptozoology is a

28:14

study of things that don't exist.

28:18

Right? Like running after things that potentially

28:20

exist. But it's really the study of

28:22

these things that we have

28:24

not yet proven, but they've left something there.

28:26

Right? And so Bigfoot investigating

28:29

and Bigfoot, you know, hunting or

28:32

those seem like very noble

28:34

pursuits, because you're actually looking

28:37

with very little evidence, you're trying to

28:39

prove that something exists.

28:42

And that something is there that people

28:44

haven't seen yet. And

28:46

kind of also because of that, for me

28:48

as a folklorist, I'm like, great, awesome, let

28:50

it never be found. Because then the lore

28:54

can be what we want it to be, which

28:57

is why cryptozoologists don't make names. Well,

29:00

when I was thinking about

29:03

these giant snakes, that

29:05

makes sense because in a

29:08

lot of rivers, you know, you have

29:10

regular sized catfish and people fish for

29:12

them all the time. But where I

29:14

live, they go out and do

29:16

this thing they call noodling. And

29:18

there's these giant catfish that live

29:20

in these rivers that are like

29:22

100 pounds. It's

29:25

not normal. But I've

29:27

actually seen pictures

29:29

of them. And I know people

29:31

who have gone out and done this years ago when

29:33

I was much younger, I never have

29:36

done it. But I

29:38

could see how in an environment

29:40

like the Hakamak Swamp, how

29:42

there could be snakes that

29:45

have gotten hugely, bizarrely large.

29:48

Yes, maybe. But what the heck is

29:50

noodling? You can't just throw the term

29:52

noodling out there. So noodling, okay. Regional.

29:55

So what that is, is that so

29:57

people. I'm imagining some kind of

29:59

water. version of cow tipping. That's why I'm

30:01

like kind of like... So and it has nothing to do

30:03

with noodles but it is people will

30:05

go into these rivers once because a lot

30:07

of times out here you go through a

30:09

drought or a dry season and

30:12

the rivers kind of they dry

30:14

up a little bit people will

30:16

go in and wrestle these catfish

30:19

is basically how they catch them because you can't

30:21

get them with just your regular fishing pole you

30:23

would never reel in a 90 pound

30:26

catfish and so

30:28

these people will actually go in

30:30

and wrestle them. That's noodling. So

30:32

when you said noodling the other part

30:35

of me was kind of thinking like

30:37

oh something romantic like there you go.

30:39

You're thinking, cut noodling. I guess it's

30:41

kind of on the romantic side of

30:44

what I thought it would be. I always

30:46

think it's kind of sad. I'm like

30:48

this ginormous catfish has lived out there

30:51

forever let it go like hats off

30:53

and they're just you can't eat

30:55

them because they're too old you know and I

30:57

think they usually do just let him go. It's

30:59

a picture. What are you gonna do

31:02

with it? Right, right, right. I mean you know. But

31:04

so when I read the giant snakes it totally creeps

31:06

me out the thought of a giant snake but I

31:08

could see how that could happen. Yeah

31:11

and you know with the giant snake as

31:14

far as I know and anyone is free

31:16

and willing you know to to call me

31:18

out on this because I am not the

31:21

cryptozoology master. It's all in context for me

31:23

for what I do. I'm pretty

31:26

sure there haven't been that many of those

31:28

and I think it's I think the the sighting

31:30

that's always it's an excavation that was going on

31:33

I think in the 1920s or 1930s where this

31:37

snake was discovered and it hasn't been seen since

31:39

and it hasn't been but it's

31:41

it's a great example of what

31:44

the triangle does because not only does it

31:46

completely make sense but because

31:48

the fundamental historical details

31:50

of the triangle have been repeated and

31:53

repeated repeated it seems as

31:55

if you just go in there there's

31:57

just these gigantic snakes all over the

31:59

place. place. And I'm pretty

32:01

sure it's only been like one sighting

32:03

that happened briefly during, during

32:06

an excavation, you know, 100 years

32:08

ago, and yet it's

32:11

taken on the weight. Now, all

32:14

right. Great. And there's even the

32:16

way that it's described, I was just talking to

32:18

this, with this about a

32:20

researcher who, you know, was one of my one of

32:22

the most in depth researchers, and I'm going to mispronounce

32:24

his name, I'm going to say it anyway, David

32:27

Goslin. And I know I'm

32:29

saying it wrong. But he is when it

32:32

comes, whenever I need to know anything about

32:34

Hey, listen, I

32:37

came across something about a sea serpent Nova

32:40

Scotia, in you know, 1385. And

32:42

he'll be like, Oh, yeah,

32:44

like that was the incident. And

32:46

he just knows that stuff. Anything

32:48

about HP Lovecraft, horror

32:51

movie sites, like, you know,

32:53

set sites, and he knows

32:55

about cryptozoology, especially Massachusetts,

32:57

and then here in Florida. And

33:00

him and I were discussing, he was asking me

33:02

a question said, Do we have any verification, right?

33:05

Like everyone cites this report that happened in

33:07

this thing that happened. Where is the information?

33:10

Like, where is the newspaper article that talks

33:12

about it? pre, you know, Boston Globe talking

33:14

about in the 1980s? Like, do we have

33:16

this? Do we know where this exists? Are

33:19

people just been talking about it so long

33:21

that it's become facts, even though we don't

33:23

have the documentation of it. And he's like,

33:25

you know what, I can't

33:27

think of when I've ever seen like it

33:29

published or picture or, you know, a photo

33:32

of it's just been one of those things

33:34

that people have said for so long, that

33:36

it has solidified. So I think

33:39

you know, living near the

33:41

ever living in between the Everglades and

33:43

the Ocala National Forest here in Florida,

33:45

I know big snakes. They're

33:47

not anywhere nearly as big as that one is

33:50

rumored to be. But I think that they're a

33:52

lot more factual on that one. It

33:54

makes sense. Because it's kind of

33:56

like, that's why

33:58

I'm a little unoffensive. cryptids because I

34:00

don't have any experience with them. I have

34:02

experience with haunted house but I don't have

34:05

any experience with a cryptid. But

34:07

then you see kind of the same photos

34:10

frequently and I'm like where's the

34:12

rest of the information

34:14

like. Yeah. And

34:16

you know what like I know I know a lot

34:18

of cryptozoologists

34:21

who I would make the best man of my

34:23

wedding like they are truthful people. They are people

34:26

who look at something a

34:28

very specific way and so I

34:31

don't want to disparage the cryptozoologists

34:34

and the Bigfoot people around the world. Like I

34:37

just think that you

34:40

know that particular snake story I think is

34:42

more of a fish story than a snake

34:44

story. I

34:48

liked that. Yeah thank you. Thank you. I tried

34:50

to back into doodling. And

35:04

that wraps up part one of

35:06

our conversation with Christopher Bolzano about

35:08

the Bridgewater Triangle. You

35:10

can buy his books on Amazon or

35:13

get them directly from

35:15

Chris at trippingonlegends.com. If

35:18

you'd like access to all of our episodes

35:21

including the archive and advanced episodes everything

35:23

commercial free then you can become a

35:25

grave keeper. Sign up on

35:27

Apple Podcast where you can try it

35:30

for three days free or you could

35:32

go to patreon.com/The Grave Talks. I'm

35:35

Carol Hughes and for all of us at the Grave Keeps.

35:37

Thank you for listening. Since

36:02

J&K Security Solutions opened in 1987,

36:04

our attention to detail and customer

36:06

service have been our strongest assets.

36:09

I'm President Jeffrey Beckman. We'll always do our

36:11

best to find the most efficient and cost-effective

36:13

solution to every job we tackle. Whether

36:16

it's security for your home or business, installing

36:18

video surveillance, or being able to control your

36:20

garage doors from your phone, we

36:22

can help you feel empowered with simple

36:24

and user-friendly technology. Let's work

36:27

together to secure your home or

36:29

business. jksecurity.com Treat

36:56

mom to healthy, glowing skin with Ocea's Limited Edition Skincare sets.

37:06

Ocea has been making clean, seaweed-infused

37:08

products for nearly 30 years. Their

37:11

Golden Glow Body Set includes three

37:13

clinically proven bestsellers for smooth, glowing

37:15

skin, while the Glow and Go

37:17

Facial Set provides spa-level results while

37:19

home. Both sets come in giftable

37:21

boxes with savings up to $48

37:24

and free shipping for a limited time. For

37:26

10% off your first order, site wide,

37:29

go to oceamalibu.com and use code MOM.

37:32

Mike Rowe here with a radical idea. If

37:34

you want to see more companies make more things

37:37

in this country, buy more things

37:39

from more companies who make things in

37:41

this country. I'd refer in

37:43

this case to the incredible t-shirts, sweatshirts,

37:45

blue jeans, and more made by my

37:47

friends at American Giant. Everything

37:50

American Giant makes is made in

37:52

the United States. And right now,

37:54

you can take 20% off your

37:57

first order at american-giant.com/mike, that's american-giant.com.

38:03

Since J&K Security Solutions opened in

38:05

1987, our attention to detail and

38:07

customer service have been our strongest

38:09

assets. I'm President Jeffrey Beckman.

38:11

We'll always do our best to find the

38:13

most efficient and cost-effective solution to every job

38:16

we tackle. Whether it's security

38:18

for your home or business, installing video surveillance

38:20

or being able to control your garage doors

38:22

from your phone, we can help

38:24

you feel empowered with simple and user-friendly

38:26

technology. Let's work together to

38:28

secure your home or business. jksecurity.com

38:57

For the past 30 years, care heating and cooling put you first. You

39:21

are the reason they are open 7 days a

39:24

week. You are why they make it easy to

39:26

schedule service at careheatingandcooling.com. Concerned

39:28

for your safety is why they check every gas

39:30

furnace for carbon monoxide. It's because of you that

39:32

their technicians are paid to fix your furnace and

39:34

air conditioner, not sell you a new one. And

39:36

if you do need a new furnace, their team

39:38

will make sure you get exactly what you need

39:40

at a cost that fits your budget. Care

39:42

heating and cooling is committed to doing business

39:45

right. Call them at 1-800-COOLING. When

39:47

you need a company, you can trust. Some

39:50

people just know the best rate for you is

39:53

a rate based on you. With all speed. Not

39:55

one based on the driver who treats the highway

39:57

like a race track and the shoulder like a

39:59

passing wheel. Why pay

40:01

a rate based on anyone else? Get one

40:04

based on you with DriveWise from Austin. Not

40:06

available in Alaska or California, subject to terms and conditions. Rates

40:09

are determined by several factors, which vary by state. In some

40:11

states, participation in DriveWise allows all states to use their driving

40:13

data for purposes of rating. While in some states, your rate

40:15

could increase with high-risk driving, generally safer drivers will save with

40:17

DriveWise. All state-bearing casualty insurance coming into Philly, North

40:19

Park, Illinois. For the past 30 years, Care

40:21

Heating and Cooling put you first. You are

40:23

the reason they are open 7 days a

40:26

week. You are why they make it easy

40:28

to schedule service at careheatingandcooling.com. Concern

40:30

for your safety is why they check every gas

40:32

furnace for carbon monoxide. It's because of you that

40:34

their technicians are paid to fix your furnace and

40:36

air conditioner, not sell you a new one. And

40:38

if you do need a new furnace, their team

40:40

will make sure you get exactly what you need

40:42

at a cost that fits your budget. Care

40:45

Heating and Cooling is committed to doing business right.

40:47

Call them at 1-800-COOLING. When

40:49

you need a company, you can trust. Some

40:53

people just know the best rate for you is

40:55

a rate based on you. With all states, have

40:57

one based on the driver who treats the highway

40:59

like a racetrack and the shoulder like

41:01

a passing lane. Why

41:03

pay a rate based on anyone else? Get

41:06

one based on you with DriveWise from Austin.

41:08

Not available in Alaska or California, subject to terms and

41:10

conditions, rates are determined by several factors which vary by

41:13

state. In some states, participation in DriveWise allows all states

41:15

to use your driving data for purposes of rating. While in some

41:17

states, your rate could increase with high-risk driving, generally safer drivers will

41:19

save with DriveWise. For the past 30 years, Care Heating and Cooling

41:21

put you first. You

41:26

are the reason they are open 7 days a

41:28

week. You are why they make it easy to

41:30

schedule service at careheatingandcooling.com. Concerned for

41:32

your safety is why they check every gas

41:34

furnace for carbon monoxide. It's because of you

41:36

that their technicians are paid to fix your

41:38

furnace and air conditioner, not sell you a

41:40

new one. And if you do need a

41:42

new furnace, their team will make sure you

41:44

get exactly what you need at a cost

41:46

that fits your budget. Care Heating and Cooling

41:49

is committed to doing business right. Call them

41:51

at 1-800-Cooling when you need a company you

41:53

can trust. Some

41:55

people just know the best rate for you is a

41:57

rate based on you. based

42:00

on the driver who treats the highway like a

42:02

racetrack and the shoulder like a passing

42:04

lane? Why could it

42:06

rate based on anyone else? Get one based

42:08

on you with DriveWise from Allstate. Not

42:11

available in Alaska or California. Subject to terms and conditions.

42:13

Rates are determined by several factors which vary by state.

42:15

In some states, participation in DriveWise allows Allstate to use

42:17

your driving data for purposes of rating. While in some states,

42:19

your rate could increase with high-risk driving, generally safer drivers will

42:21

save with DriveWise. Allstate, Barron Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates are

42:23

in Spokane, Illinois. For the past 30 years, care

42:26

heating and cooling put you first. You are

42:28

the reason they are open seven days a

42:30

week. You are why they make it easy

42:32

to schedule service at careheatingandcooling.com. Concern

42:34

for your safety is why they check every gas

42:36

furnace for carbon monoxide. It's because of you that

42:38

their technicians are paid to fix your furnace and

42:41

air conditioner, not sell you a new one. And

42:43

if you do need a new furnace, their team

42:45

will make sure you get exactly what you need

42:47

at a cost that fits your budget. Care Heating

42:49

and Cooling is committed to doing business right. Call

42:52

them at 1-800-COOLING. When you

42:54

need a company, you can trust.