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1:42

Hello, everybody. I'm

1:51

Lou Dobbs, and welcome to The Great America

1:53

Show. Thanks for joining us. We

1:55

have a big week ahead of us. Congress

1:57

is finally back to work, or maybe I

1:59

should. whether

3:32

it's legal constitutional or not

6:00

again and happy new year. I'm always glad

6:02

to be here on the

6:04

Great America Show. I think you're

6:06

absolutely right the the

6:08

never Trump wing of the Republican

6:10

Party which still exists

6:13

not so much at the

6:15

voter level particularly the primary

6:17

voter level but exists at

6:19

the leadership levels of the

6:21

party are really flogging the

6:23

candidacy of Nikki Haley. She

6:26

is taking in 70 million dollars

6:29

from special interests in just the last couple

6:31

weeks. She may or may not

6:34

pass Governor DeSantis in Iowa

6:37

and if she does here's my prediction headline

6:41

Haley beats DeSantis in Iowa

6:44

in upset subhead Trump comes

6:46

in first as expected. You

6:51

can't make this stuff up I mean even

6:53

if Nikki Haley does manage to

6:56

get by Governor Ron

6:58

DeSantis for second place it'll

7:00

be a distant second. I mean it could

7:02

be a gap of as many as 30

7:04

points. Nobody's ever won the

7:06

Iowa caucuses by more than 20. Trump

7:10

in 2016 had

7:12

a very ragtag pasted

7:15

together operation on the

7:17

ground but he was

7:19

a phenomena. He came

7:21

in a very strong second considering that

7:23

he really wasn't organized.

7:26

Caucuses are different than primaries. Primary you

7:29

walk in you vote you leave

7:31

at least that's the way it's supposed to be. A

7:34

caucus is a meeting you have to show up

7:36

and stick around for a while. A

7:39

very cold night January 15th you could

7:41

be there 45 minutes

7:43

to cast your vote. If there's a

7:45

lot of people you're going to be

7:47

there longer to cast your vote. So

7:49

in this case having a structure having

7:51

a well oiled machine to turn

7:54

out your supporters is

7:57

crucial. So this is kind of two steps. One you

7:59

have to have to reach

8:01

and identify enough supporters to win,

8:03

Trump has done that in spades.

8:06

I think he's sitting on a data bank of

8:08

90,000, close to 100,000 people who have affirmed recently

8:13

that they will, without any question,

8:16

vote for Donald Trump. And

8:19

I have a high regard for

8:21

Chris LaCivita, who's his co-camp pain

8:24

manager. He's probably a great strategist.

8:26

He's also a great technician, a

8:28

great political mechanic. He knows

8:30

what he's doing. I think the Trump

8:32

campaign is superbly well organized. Ron

8:35

DeSantis has spent tens

8:37

of millions of dollars, remains to be

8:39

seen yet, whether he's reached enough

8:42

people, is there a pool large

8:45

enough to even bring him in

8:47

second? And of course, Nikki Haley's

8:49

depending on broadcast television, wall-to-wall

8:52

cable news advertising, digital

8:55

advertising. She has no

8:57

structure on the ground that I

8:59

can see. So the real contest

9:01

for the media will be not

9:04

for a huge victory by President Trump,

9:06

because I do think he's going to win. Winning

9:09

is defined as coming in first, by

9:11

the way, but who comes in

9:13

second and how that impacts

9:15

New Hampshire. Yeah,

9:18

that's quite a rundown. And

9:20

I think that everybody is

9:23

benefiting from your analysis of

9:25

it and the layout. How

9:28

important is it,

9:30

in your opinion, now,

9:34

because of the caucuses, how important

9:36

is New Hampshire? We're sitting

9:38

here getting very close to that as well. I

9:42

think it's very important, as it

9:44

was in 1980, for example,

9:46

when George Bush won the caucuses but

9:49

lost the New Hampshire primary, or

9:51

in 2016 when Ted Cruz very

9:54

narrowly won the Iowa caucuses, perhaps

9:56

as the result of a dirty trick

9:58

because somebody put out a blast

10:01

text message to every registered Republican primary voter

10:03

telling him that Dr. Ben Carson had dropped

10:05

out of the race when Ben Carson, in

10:07

fact, had not dropped out of the race.

10:10

No one ever learned who actually was

10:12

responsible for that act of chicanery. But

10:15

New Hampshire is going to be important. It's a little

10:17

different in that independence

10:20

can vote in the Republican

10:22

primary. And there is

10:24

no democratic primary because they wouldn't

10:26

let Robert Kennedy Jr. compete there.

10:28

He bolted the party

10:31

to perhaps draw independence. Now,

10:34

how many? Independence are

10:37

going to cross over into the Republican

10:39

party to vote for Nikki Haley that

10:41

remains to be seen. But if,

10:44

as I expect, DeSantis falls

10:46

short in Iowa, I

10:49

guess, when Iowa, when his defines his

10:51

coming in first, it's interesting as

10:53

his candidacy collapses, whatever vote she does

10:56

have, Trump gets eight out of 10

10:58

of them. So

11:00

his actually losing Iowa,

11:03

folding his tent before New Hampshire

11:05

would be beneficial for Trump, although

11:08

most of his votes would leave

11:10

whether he's still competing or not.

11:13

And Nikki Haley, who'd be in her

11:15

interest if Chris Christie would drop out,

11:18

it's only three percent of the vote, but those votes, I can

11:20

tell you, are more likely to go to Haley. I

11:23

don't think that's likely to happen either.

11:25

So I think Trump will win both

11:27

contests. Then I think he will roll

11:29

through South Carolina if he dispatches Nikki

11:31

Haley in her home state, which he

11:34

most definitely can do. But then I

11:36

think it's the end of the line

11:38

for her. We're

11:40

talking with Roger Stone. We're going to talk

11:42

some more. And if we may, Roger, I'd

11:44

like to talk a little more about New

11:46

Hampshire because there's some fascinating issues there. And

11:50

we've got it coming at us very

11:53

quickly as 2024 is

11:55

underway. Roger Stone

11:57

will be right back. Stay with us. We're

12:05

back now with Roger Stone and Roger, you were

12:09

analyzing New Hampshire. My

12:12

interest in New Hampshire has

12:14

been heightened because I watch

12:17

Governor Sununu hawking

12:19

Nikki Haley every day and every

12:22

way a straightforward

12:24

push by the establishment. I don't

12:26

know how much it's costing the

12:29

donors to have Sununu being

12:31

a 24-7 cheerleader for Nikki

12:34

Haley. I've never

12:37

seen a governor go quite to the

12:39

extent he has in attacking an opponent,

12:41

in this case President Trump

12:44

and belly-hoing what

12:46

to me is obviously a

12:48

second-rate candidate. Well,

12:51

I must tell you, I had a

12:54

bad experience with Governor Chris Sununu's father,

12:56

John Sununu. He was also

12:58

governor of New Hampshire. I

13:00

was working at that point for Congressman Jack

13:02

Kemp, but I also had served on the

13:04

Senate staff of Senator Bob Dole with whom

13:06

I was also still quite friendly. John

13:10

Sununu lied to both Bob Dole and

13:12

Jack Kemp for almost 12 months insisting

13:14

that he had no antecedent commitment to

13:17

Vice President George Bush when in fact

13:19

he did. So I

13:21

think that this kind of political chicanery

13:24

runs in the family. I'm not

13:26

much of a fan of Chris

13:29

Sununu. I

13:31

think he is his effort. First

13:33

of all, he's a never-Trumper, but

13:35

secondarily, I think his major effort

13:37

is to pull independence into

13:40

the primary. That's

13:44

generally speaking, my 45 years

13:46

of experience in American politics with

13:48

one exception, endorsements

13:50

don't mean that much unless

13:52

it's Donald Trump doing the endorsing.

13:55

This is a phenomenon I've never seen before. Support

13:59

is not transformative. People don't say, well, I'm

14:01

for Smith because Jones is supporting them. They

14:03

say I'm for Smith because I like Smith.

14:06

The one exception to that rule is Donald Trump.

14:09

We saw in Florida in 2018 when

14:12

he lifted an obscure and

14:14

unknown congressman named Ron DeSantis

14:16

out of obscurity, catapulted him

14:19

to the Republican nomination for

14:21

governor of Florida, then

14:23

changed his own schedule to return to Florida

14:25

three times in the last two weeks of

14:28

the 2018 campaign to literally

14:30

drag DeSantis over the finish line,

14:32

also dragged in Senator Rick Scott.

14:35

They won by razor-thin

14:37

margins. The

14:40

Trump endorsement, I've seen it in poll after

14:42

poll after poll. I've seen it in real

14:44

time. Wax a wallop,

14:46

a real wallop. I don't

14:48

think the governor of Sununu can

14:51

deliver victory over Donald Trump for

14:53

Nikki Haley. And then her missteps,

14:55

Lou, have been extraordinary. No,

14:58

the Civil War was about slavery. What

15:01

part of this do you not understand? In

15:04

New Hampshire, of all places. It's

15:08

amazing. And

15:10

to think that someone said

15:13

the other day that Nikki Haley

15:15

is exactly who she appears to

15:17

be each time she's before a

15:19

different audience. She conforms

15:21

to them absolutely. Now,

15:24

as we look at the president's numbers,

15:27

he's just dominating. Have you ever

15:29

seen this level of domination for

15:33

a man who, I mean,

15:35

we know he's the strongest and best candidate,

15:38

but there's something going on here.

15:40

The power of these numbers is

15:42

extraordinary. Well, yes. Let

15:45

me address it. First let me say this about Nikki

15:48

Haley. I really honestly believe that the

15:50

main reason that President Trump appointed Nikki Haley

15:52

to the UN was so

15:54

that the Lieutenant Governor Henry McMaster could

15:56

become governor because and McMaster's not only

15:58

a good man. who I've known back

16:01

to the Reagan days, but a

16:03

very solid early Trump supporter, where

16:05

Nicki Hailey was not. In

16:07

fact, when the Republican leadership chose

16:10

a spokesperson to answer Donald Trump early

16:12

in the campaign, they put Nicki Hailey

16:14

on the air. So I

16:17

remember Trump specifically saying, I'd like to give Nicki Hailey

16:19

a job. I want to send her someplace where she

16:21

can do the least damage. Where can

16:23

we send her where nothing whatsoever really happens? I

16:25

said, how about the UN? That

16:27

would be perfect. So maybe it's my fault. I

16:30

don't know. Look,

16:33

I've studied a lot of polling. Lou, I try

16:35

to be dispassionate. I like you, I'm

16:38

a Trump supporter, but I'm also a realist. I

16:41

can spot a trend or an uptick or

16:43

an anomaly in the polling. It's

16:45

not just that Trump

16:47

continues to gain. It's the

16:50

level of intensity of his support,

16:52

meaning his voters

16:54

are rock solid, meaning almost

16:56

nine out of 10, eight and a half out of 10 will

16:59

tell you, I'm not changing

17:01

my mind. I'm definitely voting for Trump. There's

17:03

nobody else I would vote for. These

17:06

same people, I really believe in a general

17:08

election, if Trump were not the nominee, they

17:12

would not vote Republican, particularly

17:14

since many of them do see

17:16

the DeSantis-Kinn disease in active

17:19

treachery, given Trump's role in

17:21

catapulting the career of

17:24

DeSantis to the governorship. So those

17:26

who try to tell me that

17:28

Trump can't win, I would

17:30

argue that he's the only Republican that can

17:32

win. There's a subset

17:35

of voters out there. They're

17:37

in Milwaukee, they're in Detroit,

17:41

they're in Atlanta, they're most definitely

17:43

in Arizona. They're

17:50

not Republicans, they're Trump

17:53

supporters. That's

17:55

why, For example,

17:57

Trump wins Michigan and Wisconsin.

18:00

The and Pennsylvania ah when

18:02

Mitt Romney does not endorse

18:04

we should call them. Reagan

18:07

Democrats. Before that we call them

18:09

Nips and Democrats. Ah, they're not

18:11

comfortable in the Country Club Republican

18:14

party each other. Only Trump can

18:16

reach for those voters. When you

18:18

add those people to his party

18:21

base, he is a stronger than

18:23

he's been in Twenty sixteen stronger.

18:25

the wasn't for hims when it's

18:28

his political science. At this moment,

18:31

Has never been matched. and then I must

18:33

tell you I was within. A

18:35

New Year's Eve? Ah, and

18:37

or he looks great and

18:39

he's lost a little weight

18:41

or he's in this really

18:43

in fighting for him. his

18:45

mood is extraordinary For a

18:48

man carrying around the burdens

18:50

amanda trying to lock up

18:52

for six hundred years, a

18:54

man who's very successful presidential

18:56

campaign their intent in interfering

18:58

in he remains a resolute

19:00

see remains undetermined above all

19:02

who remains extraordinarily confident of

19:04

victory he was he was

19:06

in a great mood or

19:08

New Jersey. Now

19:10

as he should be an answer

19:12

the country or he is grateful

19:14

for that day he he's issue

19:17

is you alluded no one has

19:19

ever taken this kind of our

19:21

incoming fire as as he has.

19:23

I mean the man strength is

19:26

extraordinary spot where with the extraordinary

19:28

Roger Stone A were coming right

19:30

back in just one moment will

19:32

find out about an expanding a

19:34

map for the Trump's candidacy and

19:37

will also be talking about a

19:39

unique. Plan to deal with

19:41

the illegal immigrant crisis in this

19:43

country. Stay with this. will be

19:45

right back. of

19:53

roger stone and rogers is

19:55

laid out the that the

19:57

year the president's effective effective

19:59

appeal to voters across the

20:01

country. And I really, I

20:04

think you said it just correctly, these

20:06

are without question Trump

20:10

Republicans and unfortunately many of the

20:12

Rhino Republicans don't quite understand the

20:14

party to which they belong is

20:17

led by Donald Trump. President

20:19

Trump now planning, I was

20:21

shocked to hear today, an expanded

20:24

map looking to blue states

20:27

like New York, New Jersey, Virginia,

20:31

Minnesota, New

20:33

Mexico. These are unusual

20:37

states for any Republican and for

20:39

this this America

20:41

first icon who is right

20:44

now the likely president on Election

20:46

Day 2024. I'm amazed by this

20:51

Roger. Well, Lew would

20:54

have to tell you it's all data-based so

20:56

I mean obviously Donald Trump would love to

20:58

carry his native state of New York. Realistically

21:01

in the last two elections there

21:03

was no polling that showed that it

21:06

was within his grasp and therefore to

21:08

spend time and resources there instead of

21:10

spending it in the swing state like

21:12

say Pennsylvania or Michigan or Wisconsin would

21:15

not have been a good use of

21:17

resources or time. Now my one of

21:20

my concerns of course is that the

21:22

tsunami of lawfare that is being

21:24

waged against Donald Trump is designed to

21:27

relegate him to a courtroom where

21:29

in a criminal case he must be present

21:31

if there's a court proceeding when

21:34

he should be out campaigning in swing states

21:36

or in target states. I

21:38

think it becomes less likely but not still not

21:40

out of the question that there may be a

21:42

trial before the 2024 election.

21:45

I think that's actually the idea. When

21:47

CNN and the New York Times both

21:50

report that Jack Smith is politically

21:52

motivated in His efforts

21:54

to get the Supreme Court to expedite the

21:56

proceedings so he can have a trial. That's.

22:00

In an enormous amount, but. If

22:03

you study the polling and

22:05

I do and you never

22:07

looked at any one poll,

22:09

you go look at a

22:11

series of posts taken within

22:13

the same time period with

22:15

a comparable size sample. A.

22:19

New truly worthy questions the proper

22:22

order of the question so there's

22:24

no order bias and they also

22:26

the same since or then. it's

22:28

a pretty good bet that use

22:31

modern trend and the trend we

22:33

have seen a is the.dance Company

22:35

making inroads into Normally it's a

22:38

big silly and previously democratic voter

22:40

groups such as African Americans and

22:42

Hispanics Americans and younger voters that

22:45

is reflected in the state Poland

22:47

in New York, New Jersey, Virginia.

22:50

And New Mexico A Minnesota.

22:52

Now that could change. But

22:54

as of this moments, all

22:57

of them, or at least

22:59

theoretically within his grasp, thought

23:01

oh, now in the end,

23:04

I still think that the

23:06

presidency will come down to

23:08

of Arizona, Oh, Wisconsin and

23:11

Pennsylvania, Georgia. In

23:13

Michigan. And you actually

23:15

come down to a painful of

23:18

counties within those states is as

23:20

you know, balances. In

23:23

Change in a lifetime a week skill

23:25

I saw it can be a lifetime's

23:27

but as of today I sincerely he

23:29

to justify it's based on the data

23:32

for a an expansion of the electoral

23:34

map. dollars and via very

23:36

exciting to watch in this is gonna

23:38

be some year spare as you well

23:41

know i think everybody in this country

23:43

knows it's going to be quite a

23:45

quite a year or politically and perhaps

23:48

in all sorts of other ways as

23:50

well as president trump making an important

23:52

announcement and and op ed or he

23:54

is going to deal straight up straightforwardly

23:57

with the illegal or immigration crisis that

23:59

president Biden has

24:01

created using a 200-plus

24:04

year law

24:06

that FDR used to remove thousands

24:08

of Japanese and Germans during the

24:10

Second War. And

24:13

he vows to cancel every single

24:15

Biden policy that has contributed to

24:17

what has been a, as he

24:20

put it, a catastrophe of historic

24:22

proportions. And I don't see any

24:25

hyperbole at all in that statement

24:27

about a catastrophe of historic proportions.

24:30

Your thoughts on his plan?

24:33

Well, first of all, President Dwight Eisenhower

24:35

used the exact same law to justify

24:37

the deportation of 1.3 million

24:39

illegals during his presidency. So it

24:42

can be done. You

24:46

see this phenomena in our cities

24:48

and in our states and in our counties where

24:51

the requirement to provide social

24:53

services for illegal

24:55

migrants, in many cases over

24:58

the needs of American citizens, is

25:01

bursting the budgets, bankrupting

25:04

the cities and the counties. The

25:06

mayor of Chicago, he's a real piece

25:08

of work anyway, he came out the

25:10

other day and said, this is

25:12

just not sustainable. We're going to be broke

25:14

almost immediately. The answer, he

25:17

said, is to give these people citizenship. Well,

25:19

I don't see how that's the answer. That's

25:21

the answer for you because you'd like to

25:24

be able to vote perhaps. That

25:26

is not the answer. When

25:28

Anthony Blinken, the Secretary of State, met with

25:30

the President of Mexico a week ago to

25:33

discuss the crisis on our border, they

25:36

didn't have much to say in their

25:38

joint statement other than hinting that maybe

25:40

the answer is to give all these

25:42

illegals citizenship. So don't blame

25:44

me if I see a political

25:46

agenda here because I do. Why

25:48

would Secretary Mayorkas continue to

25:51

insist that the border is secure?

25:54

When Carrie Lake tells me that there's 318

25:56

gates on the Arizona Mexico

26:00

border that are welded

26:02

open allegedly so some

26:05

rare species of antelope can

26:08

roam back and forth. It's

26:11

an invasion. It's purposeful. It

26:14

is bringing us a fentanyl

26:17

epidemic, a crime epidemic,

26:20

an economic ruin where even

26:22

mayors like New York City Mayor

26:24

Eric Adams, who while running

26:26

for mayor, said he was proud that New

26:28

York City was a sanctuary city,

26:30

but now says, folks, it's going

26:32

to break us. We're on the verge

26:35

of bankruptcy. He

26:37

is trying to stop Texas Governor

26:39

Greg Abbott from busing

26:41

or flying illegals

26:43

from Texas to New York, but

26:46

I think the governor has every right

26:49

to do that. Why should Texas absorb

26:51

all these people? His

26:53

answer has been powerful, almost 100,000 illegal

26:57

immigrants shipped to various cities

26:59

and states. One

27:01

other development, Roger, and that is an absolute

27:05

statement of solidarity, the entire

27:08

House Republican leadership agreeing

27:10

on one thing, that

27:12

President Trump should be president in

27:15

2025. I

27:18

take that as a remarkable endorsement.

27:21

Your thoughts? I think it

27:23

is a recognition that

27:25

the grassroots of the Republican Party, this is

27:27

no longer the country club party of the

27:29

Bushes. This is now the America

27:32

first party of working Americans as

27:34

exemplified by Donald Trump. He is the

27:36

only candidate who can bring the Republicans

27:39

victory next fall. I

27:41

think it's a recognition of that fact. Some

27:44

of those folks who have endorsed him, we

27:46

know, Lou, they don't particularly like him. They

27:48

like his policies, but they

27:51

are facing reality. And

27:53

reality is coming at us fast here in 2024. As

27:57

many have said, I think this

27:59

election... is existential for the republic

28:02

and it's critical

28:05

that President Trump win it. Roger

28:07

Stone, thanks so much for being with

28:09

us. Always enjoy our conversations and my

28:11

tutorial. I appreciate it,

28:14

Professor. Thanks so much for being with us.

28:16

Roger Stone. Great to be with you, Lou.

28:18

God bless you and happy New Year. Thanks,

28:20

Roger Stone, and thanks, everybody, for

28:22

being with us today. Join us

28:25

tomorrow for The Great America Show.

28:27

Our guest is former CIA analyst

28:29

Dr. John Gentry on the

28:31

CIA and its runaway abuse of

28:33

power and influence in

28:35

our national politics. And please join

28:37

us for that and much more.

28:39

Join us each and every day

28:41

for The Great America Show. Follow

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me on Twitter and Truth Social

28:46

at Lou Dobbs on Facebook and

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28:50

join me every night, Monday through

28:52

Friday, for Lou Dobbs Tonight on

28:54

LyndellTV and frankspeech.com. Thanks, everybody.

28:57

God bless you, and may God

28:59

bless America.