Episode Transcript
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1:24
a lot of ways that we can communicate with people online.
1:28
Uh, customers, community members, followers, audience, whatever
1:33
you wanna talk to, however, however you wanna consider them.
1:35
But ultimately, um, there's something around the, what the, the quality and I
1:42
think the, the level of connection that you can make with different channels.
1:47
I dunno, I'm gonna explore this. Um, but before we kick off, uh, maybe Lyndsay, why don't you just for people
1:54
who are listening to this or, um, jumping on for the first time, like Jess, who
1:58
might not know you, maybe share a little bit about, uh, what you do at the moment.
2:04
What's your, how you best describe your work and maybe how best
2:07
you'd like to describe yourself. So my background was in digital design.
2:11
Um, well all realms of design from branding to website in the old world
2:17
website, ways to digital product design, which is a lot to do with usability
2:20
and, um, what on, on online journeys, trying to get somebody from here to there
2:26
as quickly and enjoyably as possible. But then I, um, I had two kids and pretty much immediately intend with
2:34
that, decided that my two passions, design and the environment were really
2:38
kind of excluding the environment. And with having kids, I really wanted to be doing something that was more
2:43
directly related to the environment. I was doing nothing related.
2:46
I was working for Virgin Holidays and Apple and, you know, great
2:51
companies with enjoyable work, but not doing anything that felt
2:53
fulfilling in this other kind of realm. So I, uh, decided to make bags, which is obviously jumping many
3:00
steps there in terms of a tangent, trying to make it a little bit more
3:03
getting to the newsletter part. But, um, I decided to start using all the skills that I had in a way that I could
3:10
relate to the environment in some way.
3:13
And so I loved bags. I needed a bag and I couldn't find one that met all the needs I wanted.
3:18
So just something that was an everyday slick looking bag that I could use
3:22
for the countryside walks with the kids or the playground, but also
3:25
be smart enough to take to kind of the design meetings I was going to.
3:29
Um, and decided to make this myself, which was absurd because I didn't know anything
3:33
about making a bag and manufacturing or what would be involved in materials.
3:39
But I decided to do this and it's been this amazing thing.
3:43
It, it was something that I can create using the materials I wanted to.
3:47
And so be thinking about footprint there. But then it's become this piece where it is so much more about the
3:53
environment in a different way. And this is really why the newsletter is what we're chatting about right
3:57
now because it's been, I really wanted to do this to change minds in terms
4:02
of being aware of, uh, our footprint and making things, sure we buy things
4:07
that are the best, the best possible.
4:09
Probably one of the more gratifying interactions was with this, uh, woman
4:14
that I bumped into when I went back to America and we had gone to high school
4:17
together, in the states where I grew up.
4:20
And we, she was no close friend.
4:23
She just, Happened to get on my newsletter at some point when I was at the early
4:27
days trying to get anybody and everybody that I knew, all the family and friends
4:31
from distant ways, you know, to sign up.
4:34
And so she had signed up, which was wonderful of her.
4:36
Um, and we happened to meet up because I was in Portland, Oregon and I
4:42
don't normally go that far a field.
4:44
And, um, she, it was, it was so wonderful.
4:48
She's like, I had studied environmental science in, uh, university.
4:52
And she said, I just, I've gone and I've changed kind of jobs and I now
4:56
do real estate and I love what I do 'cause I'm doing it in a unique way.
5:00
But I've lost that, that passion and that focus of the environment and
5:04
just you, through your newsletters and what you're trying to do, you know,
5:07
using your voice is, is so important.
5:10
And that's really brought that back to me and I'm trying to
5:12
be more responsible once again. And that was just, uh, yeah, a really wonderful thing where somebody had
5:16
chosen for their life's path to be this, you know, one way and spent
5:20
multiple years a study on this.
5:23
And then it's, I just happen to be my newsletters, which are not, I'm,
5:27
I, I come from no background in the environment, just a lifelong love of it.
5:32
Was there a a key turning point that you can identify that made you think, okay,
5:38
I need to, you, you talked about kids. Was it purely having kids and thinking about, all right, what does
5:43
this mean in terms of the future?
5:45
Or was there something else that inspired you to think, okay, I want
5:48
to think, think about, work more holistically and try and bring in more
5:52
aspects to what I'm passionate about? Why I decided to work on bags, so I was very happy in the work
5:58
that I was doing beforehand. And when I started to create this bag, it wasn't because I need exclusively
6:03
this platform for the environment. I was at a point in my life where I didn't know what I wanted to do.
6:09
I had two young kids and all the incredibly creative work was in
6:13
London, two hours commute away.
6:16
My husband was already doing that commute and so I was trying to figure
6:19
out, like, I was at the place where I was like open to ideas of what could I
6:23
be doing myself using the skills that I have, even if it isn't directly just
6:28
the design that I have done in the past. And so it wasn't exclusively.
6:33
I use that time to identify what are the passions that I really do
6:37
love and what I'm really excited by.
6:40
And the environment and design just kept on popping up when I was trying
6:42
to do like, post-it notes of, you know, workshopping myself basically, and finding
6:48
my, my, my, my voice, my career, whatever.
6:51
Yeah, and so the environment, this was one where like, I, I came across a bag
6:56
one evening, um, pre prep, preparing for an interview for a different job.
7:01
Um, and I felt like it was almost the right bag.
7:04
It was, it looked so close and then I just spent so much time dissecting
7:07
it and being like, actually I wouldn't be able to get to the keys.
7:10
I don't know where there's a pocket for the keys. I'm gonna have to open up the whole bag.
7:12
And actually the straps are a little bit beefy and a little bit like less unisex
7:16
and more just masculine, outdoorsy. And so it wasn't just the environment by any means.
7:21
It was you like relying upon the skill sets that I had, I
7:25
had all these design skills. I could make this better even if I have none of that knowledge.
7:29
And then it's just been an evolution where I was looking into the,
7:31
like I wanted to do this in a green way, whatever that meant.
7:35
But then when looking and learning more along this process, it was maybe a
7:38
year and a half after I began focusing upon the area, I knew design and
7:43
making the bag the best way possible that I started to look into the
7:47
actual materials that would be used. And at that time it was just unbelievable that I was being recommended if I wanted
7:53
to use wax cotton, wax canvas, to have that made, which is typically just made
7:58
in Britain, have it made and then sent over to Southeast Asia, have them make
8:02
it in the different facilities there, and then send it back, you know, where
8:05
I could then send it off to the world. Again and just seems so, uh, irresponsible.
8:09
And so it was then that I really began to do quite a bit more diving into the
8:14
actual materials and their footprints. And there's still, I mean, there's no black or white.
8:18
There isn't the perfect material. Uh, it doesn't exist.
8:21
So it's all trying to figure out at this point of where Baxley is,
8:25
what is the best material in terms of footprint that I can be using.
8:29
As I'm hearing it, and please correct me if I'm wrong, for you specifically,
8:32
there was a transition from being, you know, designer, professional, loving
8:35
your work then to motherhood, then to, okay, what do I do now for me?
8:41
Mm-hmm. And what that means in terms of, you know, it sounds like you
8:45
use your design skills to then workshop your way to the next step.
8:51
And, and it mm-hmm. So it wasn't like, oh, I got this plan and I'm gonna do this
8:54
and I know what I'm gonna do. It's like, Who has that? Yeah.
8:57
I mean, that would be great. Well, there's an illusion. I think a lot of people think successful people have that.
9:03
They're like, oh, I have this vision and I will make it happen.
9:07
As opposed to there's a, in a sense, there's a, there's a
9:11
little bit of struggle there. It's like, ugh, what am I gonna do now?
9:16
And what can I do given the constraints that I have on my life?
9:19
And so, yeah, I don't know, like maybe I, um, and let me know if this
9:24
is going a bit too personal, but like, just that experience for you
9:28
of trying to essentially reevaluate what next and what you want to do.
9:32
Mm-hmm. How did that feel? And, and even just like that exercise of trying to figure out what's interesting.
9:39
It's like, how, how did you design that for yourself?
9:42
Sure. I mean, yeah. And it was, it was a really hard, miserable period of feeling so
9:49
unbelievably capable and having spent, you know, what, 18, 20 years in one career
9:55
and being at a wonderful level that I like achieved, and then not being able
10:00
to, 'cause I wanted to have connection to the kids and be part of their life,
10:04
uh, to be, yeah, just not finding the work that was rewarding by me and at
10:10
least not continually enough, and, and having to, to do this, but I mean, I,
10:14
I'm so happy that I've gone through that.
10:16
Um, and that I had the ability to, through the skills that I had learned,
10:23
through working for other people in terms of, uh, hosting workshops, trying to
10:27
figure out what are the questions that are most important to ask of myself.
10:31
And so I now do this workshop with other people at, at times 'cause
10:34
it is just a wonderful kind of soul searching, uh, realignment type activity.
10:39
And it doesn't necessarily bring the, the solution right away.
10:41
But when I came across that one backpack while preparing for an interview, when
10:45
I came across it and I spent two hours trying to, to wanting to actually buy this
10:50
bag and realizing it's not the right bag, I was able having just kind of identified
10:55
what are the things that I'm good at, what are the things I'm not good at, what are
10:58
the things I absolutely light me on fire?
11:00
I could just have a conversation about for, you know, an hour easily.
11:04
Um, you know, what are the assets that I might have, you know, being able to
11:08
identify those different categories and then kind of taking all those post-it
11:12
notes and kind of like matching them up in different ways and excluding the
11:15
ones that really were draining for me, thankfully, did not include emails.
11:20
Um, yeah, I was able to then, when the time was right, figure out
11:26
what was the right thing for me. And so, yeah, it was really depressing.
11:29
Like I just felt so capable and with no path that I could figure out ahead
11:33
of me that would allow me to be a, an active parent, um, or engaged parent.
11:39
So let's dive in now a little bit in terms of going from, oh, I, I want to improve,
11:43
the way I heard is I wanna improve these bags 'cause they're not working for me and
11:47
I, if they're not working for me, they're not, might not be working for anyone else.
11:51
Well, um, so that in, uh, digital product design, so when you're creating an,
11:57
um, any kind of website that's selling an i an item, there's, you start with
12:03
the minimum viable product, and this is any, any startup of any size, even
12:06
if it's a service, you should start with the most basic item possible.
12:10
And so for me, I didn't have any sewing skills, but it, I didn't have a clear
12:15
enough idea of exactly what I wanted to go straight to spending a lot of money on
12:19
other people executing this idea for me. So I literally just went to Fabric Land or whatever kind of fabric that was
12:26
on the High Street, grabbed a couple meters of just generic white canvas and,
12:32
um, measured up a backpack that I had nearby to just get loose measurements
12:36
like it's 14 centimeters wide, I'm gonna do it like 25 so I have a lot
12:39
of extra, and then started pinning up those first very early, like pre
12:44
prototypes, um, and then literally pinned them to my back with books in them,
12:49
just trying to gauge exactly loosely what size I should be making them.
12:53
It was ridiculous. I have a few pictures of it. That's absurd.
12:56
Yeah, and then I got out a sewing machine I had bought on eBay, uh, and then just
13:01
kind of figured out, going back and forth, I still like only do one stitch.
13:05
I just got out, go back and forth. But I've done so, um, to, yeah, it, it, it, I, I've managed to do so
13:12
it, um, it's unbelievably difficult.
13:15
It was working with ba basically a, um, a 3D jigsaw puzzle.
13:20
Uh, and I didn't know if the pieces actually would meet up though, like
13:23
where a jigsaw puzzle, you have some trust that the company's actually
13:25
done it so they will match up. I never had that trust in myself in terms of what I've cut out.
13:30
But, you can unpick, right?
13:32
You can undo anything that you've done. So I would sew down two rows, unpick one row, sew down two rows, unpick one row.
13:38
Not intentionally, but uh, that was kind of the average of success I had.
13:43
But, um, I made that first bag and it took three months of evenings and
13:47
weekends and it was, I, I don't know how I continued to have that, that perseverance.
13:53
Like I just really believe that this met all of those things I was so excited
13:57
about and I could see that really coming together and that vision clearly.
14:02
And, um, yeah, and it was, I mean, it was amazingly rewarding
14:05
that the first time I used it.
14:07
Well, I mean, I finished it and I was like, oh my God, I've nailed it in one.
14:10
It is perfect and ready to go. And it felt amazing.
14:13
And then like literally five minutes later, I'm like, actually
14:16
that pocket's way down too low. It's like on the base, I'm never gonna bend all the way down onto the ground
14:21
on the tube to pick this thing I like. Anyways, within five minutes I had a whole list of things that I wanted to change.
14:26
And so almost immediately, maybe a week later, I began cutting
14:30
out the material for version two, mark two, right into production.
14:33
That was gonna take three more months, and then Mark three took another three months.
14:37
But during those three months, I was able to be testing out the previous version.
14:40
And so even though it was my Fabric Land white canvas, it
14:43
still was sewn and, you know, um, held items that I needed to hold.
14:48
And, um, yeah, I had a, uh, fashion trend forecaster tapped me on my
14:53
shoulder, actually on the train one day being like, I love your bag.
14:56
Where did you get it? And the most gratifying thing I think I've ever said was, I made it,
15:00
you know, really, really wonderful.
15:03
So that feedback like that, um, over those, over that year really
15:08
helped to give the, the energy and a lot of that drive for those
15:11
evenings and weekends I was giving up with the kids or, or friends.
15:15
I love what you said something around you can always unpick something like you can
15:20
always unpick and undo and then restart.
15:24
And that being a metaphor for the work, the idea, the things, like,
15:28
there's a big perception I feel with some people like, oh, the
15:32
first idea has to be the best idea. 'cause if I don't, it's gonna fail,.
15:37
As opposed to, you can always unpick it. You can always mm-hmm.
15:40
Unravel it and start again. And that for me is really interesting.
15:44
Another aspect I think I was linking to is just that I, I had a need for
15:48
creativity, a need for like, just making something and something that's your own
15:53
oh my God, yeah. Power in your world nearly.
15:56
It's like, ah, this is mine. I want to do it.
15:58
And that in the, you know, you talked about the perseverance, it felt, it
16:02
felt like this is like a, it was like something was coming through you in
16:05
terms of, you're like, ah, this is, this needs to be birthed somehow.
16:09
And then when you're going mark one, mark two, mark three, then I thought
16:11
about Iron Man and his different suits. I don't know if anyone's interested in Marvel superheroes, but
16:16
first suit was a bit shoddy. It was made out like bits of a missile.
16:20
And then you had Mark two, which was amazing and then mark three
16:22
from Fabric Land from Fabric Land, exactly.
16:26
But that, you know, you said over a year, and for some people
16:29
that's like, oh my God, so long. Oh my God. Well, had I known that, I don't know that I would've had that energy either.
16:35
Like, Yeah. And It's because it's a physical thing, you know?
16:37
You have to, and like the, you know, one thing with digital things, it's,
16:40
there's, there's perception you can move faster, but with a physical
16:43
thing, like you're walking around, you've gotta feel how it works.
16:46
Like how there's something I think quite, um, I was gonna say human, but
16:52
there's something, because it's tactile, because it's kind of physical, because
16:55
it's not the speed of digital, it's something much more grounding I think
17:00
around that process that I'm feeling.
17:03
And, and also, I dunno how much more you learn because it isn't
17:08
quick, quick quick, there's a slow osmos osmotic process to it.
17:12
Mm-hmm. And learning the skills. I don't know. We, we talk about, I like to talk about entrepreneurship as a journey of
17:19
self-discovery or spiritual journey. Mm-hmm.
17:22
On that journey of a year, you know, did you feel you learned
17:24
much about yourself in terms of patience or clarity or whatever?
17:30
I wouldn't have actually thought that this was connected, but I, I
17:34
was a violinist for a long time.
17:37
And I mean, you practice that phrase 50 times and that phrase will be fine.
17:42
And I suppose that kind of dedication, that, it's only in hindsight that I
17:47
can't believe that I did that, and what I got out of that is, is huge.
17:52
I'm able to understand better how to create a design because I understand
17:57
the limitations of that pattern will have and that actually that extra
18:01
pocket right there, just a nice extra pocket, no, that involves another
18:05
like three hours or an hour and a half or whatever of time because of
18:08
this particularly intricate thing that I've created, 'cause it'd be nice.
18:12
Um, you know, I, I'm able to understand the limitations for
18:14
the people who are producing it. Yeah, it, it, it wasn't something that I enjoyed doing.
18:20
It wasn't, it wasn't fun. Oh, I'm gonna go upstairs into the loft now and have fun sewing and unpicking
18:25
and sewing and unpicking again. It, but it was so gratifying getting to, to say, I made that,
18:31
that was one of my post-it notes, the things that I really wanted.
18:34
I wanted the, the ability to say I made that.
18:37
And even though though I'm not producing the bags myself anymore, thank God
18:40
I am really, really proud of what I've created in a conceptual way.
18:45
Uh, I'm curious about you linking it to violin practice.
18:50
I'm trying to learn the piano again.
18:52
I used to play it when I was a child and I'm trying to learn it again.
18:56
And, um, my teacher was saying, chunk up the bits and just repeat
19:01
that bit and again, and again and again until you got it.
19:06
And then move on to the next one. And, and there's a, there's a, it's painful, but there's a discipline
19:12
required to just keep on doing that.
19:15
And then there's a muscle memory, an instinct that suddenly gets
19:19
you, you start to cultivate through that because after a while you're
19:24
not even looking at the notes. It's just mm-hmm. One thing follows the other.
19:27
And so I'm, I'm wondering as well, with the unpicking and the stitching and the
19:31
unpicking and the stitching, it suddenly feels more natural as opposed to, forced?
19:37
I don't know how that, and, and an intuition around bags that you
19:41
may have cultivated through that. Well, I suppose with anything, there's this confidence that you get with
19:46
the number of times you do it, right? And, um, similarly the more you're with something, the more
19:52
you know that it doesn't matter. You can always undo whatever it is, right?
19:57
And there's very little in life that you can't undo.
20:01
And so, yeah, I guess it's just the confidence now.
20:03
I mean, with canvas, of course, if you make that whole, that whole for wax
20:06
canvas, it's thick it's like leather. You can't undo the whole, so for the high level of execution, of course there needs
20:13
to be a degree of, of perfection there.
20:15
But that's not my area, thankfully. Those are the people who are amazing and that's their realm
20:20
is to be perfectionists in that. But even if they were to mess up, I can still use that for other ID ideas.
20:27
Like there, there isn't a mess up really.
20:29
And I think that's an interesting mindset to, to acquire.
20:33
In this journey, that, there's a perception that could be linear.
20:37
All right. Have an idea. Make the prototype, make sure someone pays for it, scale the fuck out of
20:43
it, and it's always gets messy at some point and not feeling like you, it's
20:48
all done and you can't unpick and start again, or pivot or try something new.
20:54
The word resilience came up for me when you were talking about just being
20:57
able to go up, and you said it wasn't easy, but you still persisted, and
21:00
then you get to a point, I made this after hard work after a year I made it.
21:04
And how that, you talked about confidence. I think that confidence also adds to the resilience to then
21:09
be able to like, keep on going. And I, I wanted to touch on, uh, Mark's question here.
21:14
Um, he was saying when something takes a long time to put out into the world,
21:18
the journey can be so gratifying. But I talk a lot about the difficulties of continued belief.
21:24
What's helped you continue to believe in what you are doing, Lyndsay?
21:28
I suppose because the things that I'm related to, that I'm most
21:33
passionate about, design and the environment, are the things that I've
21:35
been passionate about my whole life.
21:38
So this is the best way I know at present for me to be able to touch other people's
21:44
lives and make some sort of difference.
21:47
I'd love to be able to make a greater difference to a greater number of people,
21:52
but with the tools and the skillsets I have, this is right now the best way.
21:58
that's not to say that there aren't pivots involved in the future, um, unknown.
22:03
But with that being the vision, it, it is hard, no question, I completely understand
22:08
that this, this question of staying the course, 'cause it can be a hard course.
22:13
But I mean, for me it's, it's very easy, every time I log onto the Guardian,
22:18
BBC, New York Times, whatever, I mean, I have my, my choice of horrible
22:23
climate articles to be reading. And, um, I mean, that's a tangent of a conversation because it is,
22:29
we are so little in what we can do. But, um, I had, uh, recently been made aware of the kind of one of those
22:38
few magic pills that you can do that, uh, really can affect the climate,
22:43
which is to be consider shifting, um, pensions towards green pensions.
22:48
Similarly, your bank accounts and mortgage, like anywhere where there's
22:51
a lot of money just being held, moving that to a very responsible sources or
22:58
places, that, it can have so much impact.
23:01
The reason I'm bringing that up is because that was something I was able to share through my newsletter and, and that's huge.
23:06
Like, so that is like, sure, I've gratefully sold some bags recently and
23:10
that can help me and I'm doing it in a way that's the least damaging I can think
23:13
of right now, but that has the impact that is really related to my vision.
23:18
So things like that continue to help me keeping that momentum up.
23:23
It was, it was interesting that whole, what I heard you say was around,
23:28
uh, I wish I could do more, have more impact, but at the same time I
23:32
also sense the level of acceptance and presence with where you are at.
23:36
And, you know, there's a, and then thinking about, okay, maybe not
23:41
through the bags, but the bags seem to represent a very core
23:44
need for you to create something. Mm-hmm. I made this and it's aligned with my values.
23:49
And there's potentially other ways that you can spread this message around
23:53
sort of environment and sustainability.
23:56
And you touched on the newsletter and the ways to essentially, uh, the way
24:01
I was gonna describe is create impact at scale without burning out, without,
24:05
you know, as a one person with a voice and an idea how you can do that.
24:10
And correct me if I'm wrong, In my head, it was like, one hand is
24:15
like, I make bags and I'd write a newsletter to be able to sell the bags.
24:20
And then what then I heard, so it was like, like I write this
24:23
newsletter and I sell bags. And it is like, felt like a lot of the, there's a lot of energy
24:29
and passion and newsletter bit. So I'd be curious to just, the starting point with the newsletter and how your
24:35
relationship to the newsletter's evolved.
24:38
Yeah, it's, it's very much exactly as you said, it was a complete
24:41
180 between bags and newsletter.
24:44
The newsletter. So I suppose I had done a few prototypes at this point.
24:50
I had no newsletter. 'cause I mean, like, I didn't even have a, a product.
24:53
I, uh, had a company name I think.
24:57
I don't think I was registered or anything as yet.
24:59
But I was chatting with a friend, um, who I was working with a colleague
25:03
and, uh, I had a need for a survey, and felt like I was going to just write on
25:10
Facebook, be like, Hey, fill out my survey please to figure out, you know, what
25:13
kind of items you need in a backpack.
25:15
'cause it's been very subjective so far. And my friend challenged me to do this on video.
25:21
And he said, you know, if you really want to do this, you've gotta do
25:24
a selfie video and just, or maybe not selfie, but like a video of you
25:28
asking this, it'll go so much further. And of course I just was, I just, I don't, this is so outta my comfort
25:35
zone and I, I still, I, I hate, I'm like still the primary face
25:39
behind Baxley and in all the photos.
25:41
And I hate being behind a camera. But I did it and, and it, it, yeah, it, uh, had greater reach people, well,
25:48
also people like to help, you know. So asking for people's help so much can really, especially when you have
25:54
a dream and you have this idea and your voice is kind of shaking 'cause
25:58
you're nervous 'cause you really believe, and it, you know, it, it's a
26:02
really is a wonderful, genuine, like that's the start of authenticity there.
26:06
But yeah, just asking that plea and, and just people did share that and,
26:10
and that created my first, I mean all that feedback, which is wonderful,
26:13
um, validating for the most part, but then also insightful in other ways in
26:17
terms of the bag that I was developing. But also just that first list.
26:21
You know, I asked at the end, do you wanna continue to follow the journey
26:23
and basically be signed up to my new, my Yet to be Launched newsletter?
26:28
And then, um, yeah, wrote that first newsletter.
26:31
But what was wonderfully lucky was that I had done that video
26:34
plea and that was so first person that's not behind any company.
26:38
And so, I was able to write it signed Lyndsay, and that was the
26:43
most liberating thing I've ever done.
26:47
Um, I was able to just be like, So I don't know what's going on, this is my idea.
26:51
This is kind of what I like to do, no idea how it's gonna work out.
26:55
And so those early newsletters were really, I'm still trying
26:58
to find a manufacturer. I'm still trying to figure out what the materials are.
27:01
Is this gonna be the right manufacturer? Oh, I'm so excited.
27:04
And no, it's not at all. And the prices have come in and they're horrible and I don't
27:08
know what to do about this. So like there was, it was really wonderful getting to share
27:13
in real time this journey. And so many people really enjoyed that period, particularly
27:18
what's been fascinating. Like I really enjoyed writing that at that time.
27:22
And I was religious about writing it every week, and that was a really
27:26
wonderful exercise to get into it. And then it launched and I was able to use that whole kind of
27:32
platform for, for launching. Then like, I think a year later, people stayed with it for a year
27:37
without it existing, which is amazing. But it's, it's evolved so much though because I can't continue doing that
27:42
same kind of evolutionary journey. So the content has completely changed, but, um, my relationship to answer your
27:48
question though, is, is totally changed.
27:51
It had started with this idea of it being the most exhausting thing, and then it
27:55
was something I really enjoyed, but it was a distraction from having to bring
28:00
together this bag for the first time ever and a million different elements.
28:05
Um, I don't know how many components are in the bag right now, but like, let's say
28:09
22 different items need to be sourced. It's, it's a huge, huge number, um, especially when you're wanting some
28:16
degree of transparency for each item. So, it was totally daunting and then it was really quite nice, but, but a little
28:26
bit distracting, but really kind of nice. Um, and then I guess maybe around that launch time started to
28:30
realize like, actually I kind of really enjoy this thing.
28:32
Like this is, this is a lot of fun. And then since then, beginning to realize what kind of impact it could
28:37
have beyond just a marketing tool.
28:40
One of the things that we talk about with, uh, our community and people
28:44
particularly do this Vision 2020 program we're talking about yesterday,
28:46
this idea of working out loud. And it felt like that first period was you just sharing the journey,
28:52
sharing the story as you're making it, the product isn't even done yet and
28:54
you're still sharing the struggles. So there's, there's very much this, uh, initial period of like, it's
29:01
nearly sounded like a, a avid a diary, basically, this is what's going on.
29:05
This is the journey. I'm, I'm on. It was.
29:08
And balancing that with also designing the bag and doing all the sourcing.
29:11
So, and being a mother and all the other stuff, life admin that comes your way.
29:17
So it, it sounded exhausting, but now it's, you're saying it's turned
29:22
into, um, a platform, it sounds for you to just share your thoughts and
29:28
ideas and, and, and, and perspectives.
29:31
So yeah. Well, you know, one of the questions we were thinking is like how you
29:35
found, what, is it helpful about having a newsletter now for you?
29:39
Well, I suppose, I mean, just still along the same lines.
29:43
So it is the place I'm able to do my best to change minds and bring awareness
29:48
to others about how wonderful life can be without more purchases, basically.
29:54
And the irony of course. And then occasionally I can sell more items for people to purchase.
29:58
Um, so I mean, there is of course going to be like, I can't have a
30:01
business without a degree of sales. So there, I'm trying to limit that in terms of the salesy
30:08
nature of the newsletter. Um, and for the most part, I'm trying to just have the main newsletter, the
30:14
goods, uh, be just about inspiration and the story, the journey, and then have
30:22
separate newsletters that only come out maybe once a month at most, um, that
30:27
are the ones that are related to sales. Yeah.
30:30
So there's a real, for want of a better term, a kind of a strategic
30:33
approach to not be always selling, but at the same time not neglecting
30:38
the fact that you are a business and you need to sell bags, and that's how
30:42
you do that in a way that feels right.
30:45
And that and that balance of trying to understand how best to communicate
30:49
with, uh, your people who sign up to a newsletter without annoying them.
30:55
Maybe share in your opinion, way the ways newsletters get done
30:59
wrong and, and how people can maybe just make mistakes with it.
31:04
So I subscribe to so many newsletters.
31:07
I'm a complete junkie at present, and I am have to, of course, then also be
31:11
very good about whittling out the ones that just are not connecting with me.
31:14
And I'll let them go for a month or so, and then if I'm just not reading
31:17
them, they, uh, become unsubscribed.
31:20
and I have a separate email account just for that, so they don't bog me
31:23
down with every my standard email. But, the emails that I don't like are all sales.
31:28
So those are all the big corporations. I really just don't wanna sign up to Birkenstocks.
31:33
As much as I love Birkenstocks, I don't wanna be sold shoes that I don't need.
31:36
I'll go to them when I need it. That is as corporate and un me or like un like not signed by an individual if it
31:44
was by, even a director of sales at, you know, Birkenstock then sure, perhaps so.
31:50
Um, there's a company, A Good, I think is what they're called is,
31:53
and, and they are trying to do that dance, and they, they are very much
31:56
environmentally conscious brand. And yeah, they, they are doing an interesting job of combining big
32:02
company with, um, that kind of personal.
32:05
But what I've done to figure out kind of what is not successful and
32:10
what is successful by subscribing to so many things, it's what do I
32:13
relate to in each different email.
32:16
If it's too hard to read, that's a big challenge.
32:18
If it's just a, a light gray or a midtone gray.
32:22
Just always be thinking of somebody being, this is becoming as a designer,
32:25
of course, but somebody who's either 80 years old or eight years old.
32:29
Can they read and can they make their way around a newsletter?
32:32
Is it big enough? Like is there legibility, um, structure.
32:36
Is it always going to have like an expectation that somebody can, can
32:39
find their way around the newsletter? I, I like this part.
32:42
I don't like this part or this, it's just one part.
32:44
Seth Godin, the shorter it is, the better. I love Seth Godin's blogs.
32:47
I'm probably don't read it actually if it's too big. 'cause I like nice simple insights that he gives.
32:53
Um, consistency.
32:55
Consistency is the number one thing, and it is, at times in my life, I've
32:59
had some, uh, challenges coming up and I just am not able to be consistent.
33:03
But that is a big, big problem.
33:06
You've, you've gotta have that consistency. Even if it's once a month, that's fine, but just, um, or once a quarter.
33:13
But, uh, you will always get unsubscribes on an, on any email
33:17
sending, as I'm sure you're aware. Um, and so the safest thing is to not ever send them out, but you,
33:23
there's no, no value in that, right?
33:25
And you'll get more unsubscribes, the least, the less consistent you are.
33:29
So if you're just consistent, it's a nice, uh, attainable balance.
33:34
And so if you're consistent, people also then are, be able to,
33:37
are able to then buy into your brand and understand expectations.
33:40
They say they'll do this at this time, they do this at this time.
33:42
Peace and Fable, um, is a newsletter, just kind of a rambling,
33:46
lovely links and inspiration.
33:49
And they've been doing that for a few years and they send it
33:51
at five o'clock every Sunday. Five o'clock on the, they don't miss that for anything.
33:55
And it's, it's really wonderful. There's no reason that that is important at all in my life.
34:00
And do I read it at five o'clock on Sunday? No, and I do, look, I look forward to it exactly at that time.
34:03
No, but I really love being able to, to just know it will be there at that time.
34:08
When you're sending it out every single week or biweekly or monthly
34:11
or whatever, quarterly, people understand that that's coming.
34:14
And that's not jarring to them. If you don't sell or send any for a month and then all of a sudden you
34:21
send three in a week, let's say, 'cause you wanna sell this thing,
34:24
and oh my gosh, this is so cool. Lemme just remind everybody I have to sell, sell.
34:27
Or even not selling and just talking about it, it's intense, it's like, it's
34:30
like a neighbor who never comes by and then all of a sudden knocks on your
34:32
door every single day and you're like, what's going on with this neighbor?
34:35
I need to start hiding behind my door. And so, might be a really friendly neighbor, but that's,
34:40
uh, that's really jarring. And so you put up the flyer, don't knock on my door, or whatever it is.
34:45
There's something here also about, you said, no clear purpose.
34:48
So yeah, definitely. No clear purpose is setting expectations, making sure that somebody knows what
34:55
they're about to get on that newsletter.
34:57
And I'm certainly still trying to define this as I grow in terms of longevity
35:02
of, of Baxley, how I want to be, what the type of content is that I'm sharing.
35:08
But it can be confusing. Yeah. If, if, am I getting a sale, like for, for other emails that
35:13
I get, is this a sales thing? Like, am I supposed to be buying, is there a call to action here or is this just a
35:18
newsletter that I open up and I just know I just get inspiration on this always?
35:22
I just is just as clear inspiration. James Clear has a fantastic newsletter as well along the lines of Seth Godin,
35:30
where he's just like, yeah, very clearly, three different ideas of his
35:33
own, three different ideas of other people's or quotes often, um, and then
35:38
clear calls to action to share this.
35:41
And then of course, by his book, I'm sure, Atomic Habits.
35:44
But it, it, yeah. No, just nice clarity.
35:46
You know what? You're gonna get that newsletter if I don't have time to read it, I know
35:49
what I'm missing out on as well. But then there are other ones where like, uh, there's, I mean, I just, there's so
35:54
many newsletters that I love, like Dense Discovery is a huge one, very influential
35:58
to me in terms of striking a balance between just general inspiration of ideas,
36:02
links to cool content, but then also that sense of this is really an individual.
36:08
I know who this guy is and where he is coming from and his individual beliefs.
36:12
These are not representing a company. This is just what he believes in.
36:16
It's beautiful being able to relate to somebody, everybody, right.
36:19
We, we want connection. And the, the emails that I receive that I like the most are definitely
36:23
the ones that are the most connecting. Another thing we were talking about was this idea of, uh, people
36:28
getting it wrong 'cause they're not doing any targeting or segmenting.
36:32
Maybe just elaborate a bit on that for people who don't even know.
36:36
Sure. So targeting and segmenting is, uh, once you have a list already set up.
36:42
So it wouldn't be for starting out, but particularly now that I am now
36:47
established, I don't have that initial exciting, oh my gosh, every, every
36:51
single like weekly soap opera of what is going on with this journey, there
36:56
still is so much I'm figuring out. And so there is a lot that I'm trying to share of, of the journey,
37:01
but it isn't quite at that as that dramatic level anymore more.
37:05
And so, um, I am trying to, uh, work with also selling product
37:13
again that I've sold before. So, for example, the roll top is the first backpack that I designed and that's
37:18
when I just recently closed sales on. And it, um, There are people who have been waiting for years and actually over years
37:26
now, they're waiting to think, actually this could be the right bag for me.
37:29
But there are other people who are just, it's just not the right bag for,
37:31
and that's completely fine as well. I don't want to be aggressively selling this bag to the people who just don't
37:37
want to, like, that's not that bag, but this other one might be perfect for
37:40
them and they just don't wanna hear it. Um, so I've now started to do segmentation and it is just really,
37:47
really wonderful being able to write to a more limited audience.
37:50
I think maybe there was a question earlier at the very beginning where, how do you
37:53
speak to all these different people? And so some people have been here since the beginning and they know my backstory
37:59
and they know the whole kind of journey and all the love that's gone into the bag.
38:02
Then there are people who just aren't interested and there are people
38:04
who are interested but they don't know anything or they know about
38:07
Baxley or they don't know whatever. And so the more you can begin to just target and speak to targeting
38:12
seems too aggressive, but it's just like speaking to the correct people.
38:14
So, it allows for you then also to go into the metrics and the technical
38:18
side, and all of a sudden you have far higher open rates because these
38:21
people are actually the right audience for the content that you're giving.
38:25
The higher the metrics that you can be getting in general also allow
38:28
you to be avoiding the spam filters from people's email addresses.
38:31
So there's kind of a whole kind of technical dance that gets really boring,
38:35
I can imagine. But important. Imagine it gets a bit hard for some when it starts getting a technical side, but
38:39
I, I'm appreciating there's a bit, there's a level of work required in order to
38:43
identify the different groups within your newsletter or within the list, but then
38:49
there's another, uh, uh, it sounds like a freedom that you then get because then
38:52
you know exactly what you're saying to these people and you, there isn't that
38:56
anxiety of like, oh, am I bugging someone?
38:58
you know, the people who are gonna get this want this, people who want
39:01
get that, want that as opposed to scatter gun, oh my God, how many
39:06
people are unsubscribing from this? Because this isn't particularly relevant to them.
39:11
One of the most important things is how, how powerful and unsubscribe
39:15
is, and it's constantly trying to reposition it in my mind, where
39:22
unsubscribes are a wonderful thing. So each email that I write has to be the best email I possibly can because somebody
39:29
can hit unsubscribe anytime, and it's practically impossible to get somebody to
39:32
resubscribe unless it's been an accident. And so it's gotta be amazing.
39:37
And if it, even if it's amazing, but it's to the wrong person,
39:40
then that's a problem, right? So if I've just been aggressive, like marketing or emailing, just non-marketing,
39:46
but just emailing too frequently, it's, it's a problem for that particular person.
39:50
So, yeah, so segmentation's really helping with, with that.
39:54
Um, But yeah, each email has to be the best.
39:56
And then if somebody doesn't subscribe, I can note it's because
40:00
they just aren't the right audience. Um, so Mark was asking, I think we were gonna touch on this is like,
40:05
um, which email marketing platform ticks all the boxes for you?
40:10
And I know we talked about you're gonna share the things
40:13
that don't work at the moment. Yeah.
40:15
And what is the perfect solution that you'd like for yourself?
40:19
Oh, God. So I, I still haven't found my perfect solution.
40:22
Um, I'm hoping, I'm about to try out Campaign Monitor soon,
40:26
um, which looks promising.
40:28
Uh, but I've said that before. Uh, I started with MailChimp, which I loathe.
40:32
, I can't believe they've been so successful for such a poor product.
40:35
Because like, like they have a good, a good product and works well.
40:39
But to actually do anything other than just write the newsletter, to look
40:42
in the metrics or anything, you have to be doing that as profession and
40:45
know exactly where to be clicking, 'cause it's very unuser friendly.
40:49
Um, good price points when you're really starting out.
40:52
But then just, um, as soon as you need more details, it's very
40:56
expensive and very hard to use. Flowdesk is a nice, clean, clear one.
41:02
Very beautiful, uh, newsletters.
41:04
Um, as a designer I have a harder time giving up all that design control,
41:08
so that would wind up being the challenge that I moved away from.
41:10
But it's a single price, no matter what size audience
41:13
you have or what the need is. So there was a beauty in Flowdesk.
41:17
Um, then I moved over to Email Octopus, uh, where I currently am, um, which
41:24
I think like eight pounds a month. Like, it's, it's so inexpensive.
41:28
Um, very small team and they host some huge, huge names.
41:33
But, uh, isn't, isn't quite right for me.
41:36
It's, it's just a little glitch and you need to have a whole bunch
41:38
of pre-populated news litters. But I think I'm going into perhaps information that's not
41:43
the most useful for people. What I would love myself and what I'm constantly looking for are
41:48
the, what you see is what you get. So I'm able to be designing, using templates, clearly a lot of automation.
41:54
So if somebody signs up, they automatically receive the, the
41:57
hello email or however many sequences I need to be sending out.
42:01
Having sequences, a hello sequence is one of the most amazing tools
42:04
if you're able to set that up. Just in terms of tips in general.
42:08
Um, so like the day one they, somebody receives and says, hello, this is who
42:12
I am, lemme tell you about what you're to be expecting over the next week.
42:16
And then there on out, day two is, I'd like to give you one amazing insight that
42:21
I have to share about whatever it is.
42:24
You know, those sequences can be so incredible in terms of
42:27
connecting you with that person who's writing behind the scenes.
42:30
Other things I would love for my, uh, platform?
42:34
Analytics, like the, the more you start writing, the more the statistics matter.
42:39
Wanting to know where people are clicking. Um, not just that they're clicking, but then what links they're clicking
42:44
and who, like being able to compare those metrics as much as possible.
42:48
And the statistics over the different users, how they're reading and being
42:52
able to really segment again, you know, so that I send an email to people who
42:57
opened that one and clicked links in this other one and things like that.
43:01
There's something here around, balancing the energy and excitement for writing
43:05
the emails and also being able to use, make it effective and not feel
43:11
like you're just talking to the void and not really listening and sensing.
43:16
Essentially there's thing, an element here of just sensing what's working,
43:19
what isn't working, rather than just write, write, write, write,
43:23
write, and not really understanding what's, what's working, what's not.
43:26
There's a quick question here actually.
43:28
Given that you've moved around a lot, Kim was asking, she loads
43:32
MailChimp as well, but moving to anything else feels overwhelming
43:36
or is overwhelming in her case. How, how have you found that transition process?
43:41
Or do you have any quick tips for people around moving from one to another?
43:46
MailChimp is so miserable and big that most email platforms
43:50
will host a way for you to shift.
43:52
So they'll be like, click here to move from MailChimp and we'll do it for you.
43:57
So usually that's not so hard. Kim, also, I'm currently or about, was looking at Convert, um, Campaign Monitor,
44:03
but, uh, ConvertKit just came up as well. MailerLite certainly is, uh, another big one.
44:07
Uh, there are many, many options out there for different people and, and
44:11
also in terms of how big your team is, if you have a team or if it's
44:15
one person or two people, different strengths for different, different needs.
44:20
So there's a, it sounds like some platforms will help you automate
44:24
that process of migrating, um, your newsletter list across.
44:28
Is there anything practical around the telling people about it or just
44:33
under, is people understanding that you're moving, that in your experience
44:37
is helpful or does it matter? They don't even care whether you're on different platform or not.
44:40
Hopefully they won't ever know. Uh, I definitely had to move mid-launch one time, and this is why I hate,
44:47
uh, uh, a mail, MailChimp so much.
44:49
But, um, uh, I had to move mid-launch and it didn't go well, and all of a
44:54
sudden people got like four emails within two days and it was mortifying and
44:59
unsubscribes and, you know, all the rest.
45:01
Uh, hopefully they should not know.
45:04
So when I've changed a second time, then they haven't, haven't been aware of that.
45:07
Um, it's not, I mean, yeah, a heads up perhaps, like a little
45:11
postscript, heads up, I'm about to move platforms could be one.
45:14
And if somebody's reading the postscript, then that means that they actually are an engaged user.
45:17
Somebody who wouldn't be, uh, heard, somebody who would be one who sees, uh,
45:20
perhaps small changes and notices them. Um, but separately, Carlos, you had asked a moment ago about energy in
45:28
terms of writing, and I did just kind of wanna say that what's changed for
45:32
me, I mean, I am now able to view.
45:36
The newsletter as a platform, the word that you used earlier.
45:39
Uh, and that's really important for me in terms of impact and very
45:42
much, uh, my vision with Baxley.
45:45
But what's draining is when there is no plan.
45:48
And so the more I can have and plan, and the more that it can feel
45:51
genuine, what I'm reading, writing, the faster and easier it is to create.
45:56
So for me, I always have now kind of like a, an intro area where it's just kind
46:02
of like, what have I been thinking about lately or what has inspired me lately?
46:07
And to kind of think through this area and, and hopefully that's something that
46:11
I'm, is not just subjective to me alone, but how can this relate to other people.
46:15
And maybe it's impact related, maybe it's, it's not, but it's
46:19
just how people are living. And so it's not, um, a macro scale impact, but it's just micro, it's how we live in
46:25
our lives better, in a more enjoyable way.
46:28
Second part though is just all in the studio.
46:30
So it's, it is that update. So it's that continuation of that journey.
46:33
Like this is what's going on. And sometimes there are positive things.
46:36
Sometimes they're, oh my gosh, there's this frustration 'cause this
46:40
email host is driving me up the wall or, or something along those lines.
46:43
And then finally I end with, uh, a whole collection of links.
46:46
And those links are very important to me. Those are the most, uh, you know, time consuming 'cause I'm needing
46:52
to gather all the links that I want to be sharing onwards.
46:54
And I don't want to be sending off duds.
46:57
'cause then people will read the newsletter less and be
47:00
more likely to unsubscribe. Clear pattern and purpose I'm hearing there in terms of just to make it easier
47:06
and more energizing, um, to do, um.
47:09
Yeah. Uh, I'm conscious of time, but I would like to see if we can rattle
47:12
through some of these questions that Okay. Oh, sorry.
47:15
So quick fire answers. First one is what's been the most successful method of reaching new
47:19
people and gaining new signups? Events, hands down events.
47:23
For me, it depends upon where you are and what kind of budget
47:26
you would have for advertising.
47:28
The more money in advertising, the more return you can get.
47:31
But social media is just miserable.
47:34
Um, I mean particularly, particularly right now with Instagram, that's a very
47:37
different beast altogether this week. But, um, in the last few months, even Instagram, like I've, I've just
47:44
not been using it nearly as much. I can continue to be talking to my existing audience and get some more
47:49
followers, but nothing of any note.
47:51
And it's very expensive really, in terms of conversions for
47:55
sales, for advertising there. Google ads focus on the ss e o instead of the Google ads for signups.
48:01
Um, so honestly events and word of mouth and trying to knuckle down
48:08
on where are you most inspired by?
48:11
So I'm about to advertise on Dense Discovery.
48:13
They just send out a call today being like, Hey, you've signed up
48:16
to advertise on our newsletter. I love reading, reading this guy's newsletter.
48:19
And I know that he has a big reach and I love his content.
48:22
So I think that because I, so enjoy his content, his newsletter
48:26
readers might be the same place. So that, or podcasts, if you are a huge podcast listener, is that
48:33
aligned with your own audience? You know, so maybe there all alternative ways that have much greater value.
48:39
Than, um, than the just the standard ads.
48:42
Um, particularly if you, have a smaller budget.
48:45
Next one. It was, uh, back to John Paul.
48:48
He was asking about blogging as a, how much should a
48:51
newsletter be similar to a blog? Yeah, I, I, I would recommend, so I, I, this is an area
48:56
that I've been wanting to do. There's 8 million blog posts that I wanna be writing, and there's
49:00
just a limitation of time always.
49:02
So I, what I'm wanting to do, planning on doing is including part of it
49:06
in the, in the newsletter, but then the full amount in the, in the blog,
49:12
Another question. Hopefully always getting that blog to link back to the signing out to the newsletter.
49:16
For anyone who isn't. The newsletter is just the source of everything.
49:18
Everything should point to the newsletter. Boom. One last one.
49:21
Any other tip that you can give to Tom around encouraging people to sign up?
49:27
Uh, competitions. Competitions. Competitions, ooh.
49:31
A little bit harder now with social media being, uh, less organic, but
49:36
still, people like a competition. And any sharing of lists.
49:39
So if you're able to do a competition or anything that partners up with
49:42
somebody else, so a collaboration using two different lists, a
49:46
newsletter, new lists that will grow your own newsletter, certainly.
49:50
Awesome. Uh, an example of a competition that you've done?
49:53
So I've, I, I wanted to do a collaboration one this year, and then for, uh,
49:57
personal reasons I've ran outta time. So, uh, wound up just doing the same thing that I'd done, uh, in the two previous
50:02
years, which is to have a competition around giving away one of the roll tops
50:07
that would be in the production run. Um, so I used, uh, King Sumo, but also Glean does, does, uh, this.
50:14
I mean a lot, it's called viral giveaways.
50:16
Um, and with that, yeah, somebody signs up and the more times they share it on
50:22
here or there, the more entries they get in and, uh, the greater chance
50:26
that they would have of winning. And the last one here is how often are you sending your newsletter?
50:31
Once a week at present. Cool. Nice set. At least in terms of the
50:34
Done. There we go, yeah. Well, in terms of the goods.
50:36
And then at other times during launch periods, of course,
50:39
that's when I'm selling. So I have the goods, which is my standard newsletter, and then
50:42
I'll have the sales newsletters. And then when we get into segmentation, oh my God, it's, it's like I'm sending 8,000
50:47
newsletters, but not to the same people.
50:50
That'll be a future one. How to manage segmentation on your newsletter without burning out.
50:55
Cool. Um, any final words, Lyndsay, and any way that you'd like to point people?
51:01
Um, specifically we've shared your website, but is there anything
51:04
going on at the moment that you'd like people to know about?
51:07
As my parting gift, it is, yeah, just to write in a way that is so easy to write.
51:12
So write as you talk, write as you would write in your journal,
51:16
and, um, make sure that it gives value to the person reading it.
51:21
They'll enjoy living vicariously through you, or they are
51:25
learning something for you. They're inspired or they're excited.
51:27
That's it. Brilliant. Thank you very much and I think there's something there, I'm going back to the
51:32
beginning of this conversation where you were spending time understanding what
51:36
is it that you really love, and what is it that you're really interested in?
51:39
What is it that's lighting you up? And that being a good starting point to then be able to write more authentically.
51:45
Like you were saying, it's like write as if you are writing, it
51:48
feels like writing for yourself. Mm-hmm. Brilliant.
51:51
Thank you very much, Lyndsay. I really enjoyed that.
51:53
Um, and it's always better without Lawrence, isn't it?
51:56
Oh,
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