0:00

The heart shoulder with Kyren Coddy

0:03

-- With Neasa. -- our Newstalk.

0:06

Been busy day at Cav dunno today. Our

0:08

political correspondent, Neasa DeFoe,

0:10

joins us. Now, Sean, how are you?

0:13

Good, Anton. New? Very good. Listen, we might

0:15

start with a bit of good news for

0:16

once, hospital charges. Yeah. That's

0:19

right. So inpatient charges, this is something that the government

0:21

had flagged for, and no no hotel will announce

0:23

many times again, but the legislation went

0:25

the camera today to abolish inpatient

0:27

charges. That's a charter for the eighty euro.

0:30

A day, if you need inpatient or day services,

0:32

you need to stay overnight in the hospital and you don't have

0:34

a medical card and it's after the maximum

0:36

of eight hundred euro a year, but now

0:38

it is going to be scrapped as for all adults.

0:40

So last year, it was scrapped four children under sixteen

0:43

and for up significant higher colders and others.

0:45

And now that legislation is going to progress

0:47

to the helicopters for everybody. Lives', it's

0:49

probably going to come into effect from

0:52

April

0:52

onwards, only about a month or a little more

0:54

scope.

0:55

It didn't strike me something there was significant political

0:57

pressure on, or have I been missing it? No.

1:00

It's been sort of powered out. Like, Zoom dialing has been

1:02

quite interested in this. They're basically

1:05

trying to make as

1:07

much as it can be, public air free

1:09

when it can be. And obviously, it up to comes with big

1:11

caveats. So there are all these sort of sneaky charges

1:13

you, right, did you only really discover that maybe your insurance

1:15

doesn't cover or maybe that you you need to pay

1:17

when you actually get into trouble. And what seemed

1:20

only has been about just trying to make it free as much

1:22

as you can either through the inpatient charges

1:24

in hospitals both for children and then now for adults.

1:26

But also do the likes of free GP cards.

1:29

This one is significantly easier to do than

1:31

the free GP cards

1:32

because, obviously, they can just provide government money

1:34

for us, whereas it's a little bit more difficult with GP's

1:36

buy. There's also apparently

1:39

going to be an inquiry into

1:41

allegations of historical sexual

1:43

abuse. In schools much well,

1:45

significantly broader than it might have been.

1:48

Yeah. So this is it was brought by Mister Norfolk

1:50

only one or two French significant members you both.

1:52

The other one being performed at the primary school

1:54

curriculum, which is going to be launched in a little bit more detail

1:56

later on in the week. But this is a scoping

1:58

inquiry and allegations. Of historical

2:01

sexual abuse, it's going to be across

2:03

schools and various religious orders, obviously, are

2:05

coming to attention recently because of

2:07

the allegations the school runs by

2:10

this Burton's formerly, the the holy ghost brothers,

2:12

including BlackRock Rockwell College, and Temelo

2:14

College, they're dating back to the the

2:16

sixties and seventies. Neasa cases,

2:18

it's going to be chaired by senior council at

2:20

Mario two, and it is gonna be sort of

2:23

launching off point nearly. If you it is going

2:25

to be process talks to a lot of the

2:27

survivors that this talks to their allegations

2:30

and find us basically what day wants

2:32

to happen next. They aren't going to be asked at this

2:34

stage. To give testimony, but they are going to

2:36

be asked what they would like to see. It's going to look at the

2:38

likes of redress whether or not that

2:40

is appropriate and what the best for and perhaps

2:43

forgetting the stories for these people and seeking

2:45

some sort of a start of justice. Obviously,

2:48

with a lot of these cases, the perpetrators

2:50

are are now dead, and so there is

2:53

limited a light to the amount of justice that

2:55

can be got. But think what the scoping inquiry

2:57

is trying to find out is what they what those

2:59

survivors would like to see next, how they would like to

3:02

be acknowledged. And what can possibly

3:04

be done, I suppose, make up for the experiences that

3:06

they very unfortunately went

3:07

through. And, of course, one of the challenges with commission

3:10

like this is is keeping the terms of reference

3:12

sufficiently broad that they deliver

3:14

what's Neasa, but tight that it doesn't become

3:17

an on ending series of commissions

3:19

and investigations. When you look at something of scale

3:21

of La Foye and then Orion that were done for as long

3:23

as it did. Have we any sense of whether

3:25

or not this is going to something we'll still be

3:27

hearing about five years down the

3:29

track? Well, eight months is the timeline that

3:31

they put on for this to report back. So,

3:33

you know, that's take that with it into sales

3:35

and that it they often get send it to ten

3:37

months, to year, to even longer. But I think there

3:39

is 'betting of a body of work

3:41

for the scoping inquiries for a background

3:43

in the likes of the French reporters and other

3:46

inquiry zero or commission investigation that

3:48

have happened in the past. There is a certain amount

3:50

done there. You would hope it can it can happen

3:52

relatively quickly. But as ever, that asterisk

3:54

that you mentioned comes up with things like this

3:56

because what you want to keep quite

3:59

narrow has a way of

4:00

snowballing. And

4:00

lastly then, shown, of course, the big news of the day,

4:02

the eviction ban is not going to be continued?

4:05

No, it's not. And this has gone down like an absolute

4:07

headroom, politically, not only.

4:10

But in some of the government circles, particularly

4:12

with the opposition government getting absolutely

4:14

savaged for this with opposition party

4:16

saying it's incomprehensible to do it that it

4:18

is definitely going to lead to an increasing

4:20

homelessness. And in fact, municipal, dire or blind,

4:23

and visited us much earlier at the press conference

4:25

and I asked him, is this going to lead short

4:27

term to an increase in homelessness and said, yes, that's

4:29

a very real possibility. Strategically, a

4:31

writer in the door saying they're not doing this for the short

4:33

term. They're doing it for the medium and long term

4:35

because no new landlords are coming into the

4:38

market and ultimately that would prove a

4:40

much bigger problem. They have been

4:42

talking as well about the different support that

4:44

they are going to bring in. So, like, for example, one of

4:46

the options is this tenants if the house is

4:48

being sold onto them will be given a rise of first

4:50

refusal. Now that sounds fine on paper,

4:52

but if people had were in the position to

4:54

house they very likely wouldn't be renting anyway.

4:57

So that's, you know, somewhat of a fake leaf, I think,

4:59

covering things up. And it's been let's

5:01

say, some pretty serious comments

5:04

from members the opposition most notably one

5:06

Mick Barry who did encourage it in

5:08

clip of me a little bit earlier as a certain

5:10

amount of civil disobedience on this.

5:12

I would say to any renter

5:15

who faces an eviction, an

5:18

eviction into homelessness, Don't

5:21

just walk away from your property. Don't

5:23

just walk away into homelessness.

5:27

Stand your ground.

5:29

Refused to go. I was shot on to

5:31

follow their Newstalk political correspondent reporting

5:34

on the news from the cabinet today and that last clip,

5:36

Mick suggesting that

5:38

people should refuse to be evicted and refuse

5:40

to leave the property just some of the kind of reaction

5:42

that there has been to the decision

5:45

by not so much by cabinet, but by three party

5:47

leaders not to continue the eviction

5:49

ban. And one of the people within government who has

5:51

been most vocal in their disappointment

5:54

has been NASA Hourigan, the green party TD.

5:56

And party's finance and health spokesman

5:59

because she has been saying

6:01

that it it it flies in the face

6:03

of established green party policy. And she's

6:06

with us now. And and Neasa you maintain that

6:08

your own party leader effectively

6:10

going along with this decision flies in the face

6:12

both green party ideology and policy.

6:15

Yes, I do. I think first of all,

6:17

it's the wrong decision in terms of keeping

6:19

people in their homes and protecting them

6:21

during housing crisis. But

6:24

I also believe that the

6:27

green party has very clear policies around

6:29

this and not too long

6:31

ago in the last month or two,

6:35

the party's policy council, which

6:37

is made up of our grassroots members,

6:39

reaffirmed their commitment to the idea of

6:41

an eviction ban on short term basis.

6:43

And this absolutely flies in the face of that.

6:45

And it does make me question,

6:48

was there anybody that room reflecting

6:50

those more compassionate green party

6:51

policies.

6:52

So why do you think Eamon

6:54

and Ryan betrayed those policies?

6:57

Well, betrayal is your word. It's not my word.

6:59

But I I use something that's running

7:01

again. No. What word do you use it from party leader?

7:04

Knowles there in your view, knows there is an express

7:06

set of policies that match with party ideology,

7:08

and he decides not to follow them or

7:10

that

7:11

ideology, that wobbles and quacks like a betrayal.

7:14

I can't know what Eamon and Ryan is thinking

7:16

when he makes these decisions, but I

7:18

do know what our party policy is, and

7:20

I do know what members are saying to me today.

7:23

And I do know what would be right for my constituents

7:25

in Dublin, Central. I do know that

7:28

in this time next month, there will be

7:30

more people who are facing homelessness than there

7:32

are today. And that is directly as a result

7:34

of the eviction ban being lifted.

7:37

I do know that while we

7:39

had the eviction ban, there was chance to take

7:41

all sorts of measures protect tenants, but

7:43

also to make the sector more viable

7:46

for short term or

7:48

sorry for landlords who

7:50

might have won or two homes and we

7:52

didn't do any of those things and the housing minister didn't

7:55

do any of those things and those the

7:57

three party leaders who sat in that room

7:59

don't have to sit in my constituency clinics and

8:01

deal with people who are facing

8:03

homelessness and children in to be

8:05

taken out of school and all the disruption

8:08

that comes with losing your home. I

8:10

find it's very hard to believe that

8:13

this could be possibly you

8:15

know, proposed as a reasonable way of dealing

8:17

with the housing crisis. Well, the green the green party

8:19

has classically prided itself on

8:21

being a Gallatarian. I assume you're able to

8:24

act assess your party leader and put these questions

8:26

to

8:26

him. Have you done that? And if so, what, as he said?

8:28

I haven't been able to do that today, unfortunately.

8:31

And obviously, this decision I'm

8:33

not only worried by the decision, but also the process

8:36

of the decision making. So what

8:38

we see in this government is the

8:40

three leaders of the party go into a room and they

8:42

make all sorts of decisions and then they come out and

8:44

the cabinet seems to rubber stampers. And

8:47

I'm not party to what

8:49

the discussion in that room is. I'm not sure the cabinet

8:52

is party to it either, but I do know

8:54

that what comes out of that room in this

8:56

regard is not representative of green policy,

8:59

and I know we're a minority party,

9:01

but we should also have our values reflected

9:03

in the decisions of this

9:04

government.

9:05

It seems extraordinary that you would have

9:07

been so vocal as you have been

9:09

all day on this.

9:10

And yesterday.

9:11

And that your own party leader doesn't reach

9:13

out to you. Well,

9:15

I suppose, look, I'm always wary in this discussion

9:18

of getting into kind of the interpersonal part

9:21

of the green party. And I would like

9:23

to keep discussion on homelessness

9:25

than on people who are facing eviction. This

9:28

is no false eviction we're talking about. This is not people

9:30

who are paying the rent. This is not people who

9:32

are engaging in anti social behavior. These

9:34

are people who maybe their landlord wants

9:36

to sell the property or maybe their landlord

9:38

wants to move into the property

9:40

themselves. There was a raft of things we could have

9:42

done to make this decision better.

9:43

It would have been interesting. The reason I I'm not harping

9:45

on on the inter interrelationships. More

9:47

than I think people listening to this will say, well, okay,

9:49

if that is the way that Neasa Hourigan felt.

9:52

And if as she says, that's

9:54

party policy and that that's what our parliamentary

9:57

party had signed up to. How

9:59

do you end up in a position where the party leader

10:01

goes off on a solar run and then doesn't

10:03

explain themselves to his fellow

10:04

colleagues. That seems extraordinary. That is the

10:06

way the coalition operates at the moment. Leaders

10:08

go into a room, three leaders, three men,

10:11

and they make the decision. And really,

10:13

a back venture doesn't have any say in that

10:15

and you either take the whip and accept it

10:17

or you don't. And that is the nature of

10:20

Irish democracy at the moment. I mean, we can

10:22

have a long conversation about lives' the failures

10:25

of the three line width in Ireland and

10:27

the way it concerns

10:28

democracy. That won't help anybody stay

10:30

in their home in the next thirty days. Were

10:32

you tempted not to take the whip? Unfortunately,

10:35

in this instance, the one lever I have, which

10:37

is my vote we don't have because it's legislation

10:39

that stands and it will lapse. But

10:42

certainly, what I can do is make very

10:44

clear to both our own members and the public

10:46

what our party policy actually is and

10:49

when it is being abandoned.

10:51

To what extent is your party policy

10:53

and your view on that see rooted

10:55

on data and to what extent is

10:57

it rooted in what seems like

10:59

the right thing to do? Because it's hard to

11:01

find good rock hard, solid

11:04

stats for the eviction ban having

11:06

made much of a difference?

11:07

Well, you know, I think that's a really fair

11:10

point because we do see a a drift

11:12

like an increase in homelessness

11:14

figures despite the election ban. And we

11:16

are seeing small landlords move

11:19

out of the sector. But the reality is

11:21

that those coalition leaders are betting

11:24

that this won't add to the homelessness figures. And

11:26

they're betting with people's lives And in the

11:28

meantime, in the six months that we had of

11:30

the eviction ban, we could have done serious

11:33

actual structural work to the construction

11:35

sector to the housing sector

11:38

to make that jump in figures

11:40

less lives'. Like there are no hotel

11:42

rooms left in Open Central that we can

11:44

put people in. There are no more BNB's.

11:46

They are all full. And it's

11:48

damaging social cohesion now. It's

11:51

damaging our sense of solidarity as

11:53

a community. And really,

11:55

it's very hard for me to talk to

11:57

my constituents

11:59

and defend that in any way. And do you think

12:01

the decision to some extent has been made

12:03

to air in favor of an

12:05

electorate that is more a phenafol and finagale

12:07

electorate that it is green one?

12:10

Newstalk, I do think that

12:12

there is a very real and genuine

12:14

conversation to be had about how we support

12:16

small scale landlords to stay in the market.

12:18

We could have done that by looking at preferential

12:21

tax subsidies linked to

12:23

more secure tendencies. We could have

12:25

done that by supporting them through

12:27

the capital gains tax system as they sell to

12:29

the state. There were myriad of ways we could have

12:31

made it work better for

12:34

small scale landlords. It sounds very much

12:36

from what I'm hearing and I am following Twitter

12:38

and journalists the same as everybody else. I have

12:40

no more information than anyone else. It

12:42

seems very much like they proposed a

12:44

huge tax break for landlords and no

12:46

actual other policies in

12:49

terms of protecting

12:50

tenants. And that's not good enough. Would

12:51

you like Eamon and Ryan to come out and explain himself?

12:54

I would like to understand better how on earth

12:56

I am meant to defend this to my constituents. Green

12:59

party TD and party's finance and health

13:01

spokesperson Neasa Hourigan there, and we'll be talking later

13:03

on to the minister for housing dara O'Brien. The

13:06

hot shoulder, with key and colleague

13:08

with Nissan. Weekdays from

13:10

four. Our Newstalk.