0:39

You're listening to the Heavy-Duty Parts Report

0:41

. I'm your host , Jamie Irvin , and

0:43

this is the place where we have conversations

0:45

that empower heavy-duty people . Welcome

0:51

to another episode of the Heavy-Duty Parts

0:53

Report . My name is Jamie Irvin and I'm very

0:55

happy to be here to talk to you today

0:58

about challenging the status

1:00

quo in the trucking industry . Many

1:02

of you know me from my days

1:04

of manufacturing and distributing

1:07

heavy-duty parts , when I was either working

1:10

as an operations manager or working

1:12

as a sales manager . Some

1:14

of you who've been following the show got

1:17

to see that transition where I moved

1:19

from that role into the host

1:21

of the Heavy Duty Parts Report and

1:23

for dozens of leadership groups who've worked

1:25

with our company , the Heavy Duty Consulting Corporation

1:28

. You know me as the CEO of

1:31

that company , Regardless

1:33

of what role you've worked

1:35

with me in in the industry . If

1:37

you know me , you

1:46

know how dedicated I am to the concept of heavy-duty people flourishing Now , as

1:49

Bob Dylan once said in a famous song times they are a-changing , and

1:51

that has never been more true than

1:53

it is right now in the trucking industry

1:56

. And because of all of this change

1:58

, the need for heavy-duty people

2:00

to be adaptable and for them

2:03

to challenge the status quo and

2:05

do things differently has also

2:07

never been more needed than

2:10

right now . Because of that , I

2:12

am always on the lookout for guests

2:14

that I can bring on the show , who really

2:17

exemplify what it

2:19

takes to challenge the status quo

2:21

in the trucking industry , and today's

2:24

episode is one such

2:26

guest . Now in early March , we

2:28

attended the Technology and Maintenance

2:30

Council's spring annual meeting

2:33

in New Orleans , and so you

2:35

can imagine how excited I was when

2:37

I was able to schedule an interview

2:39

with the CEO and founder of

2:41

Range Energy . This company

2:44

is very , very much

2:46

challenging the status quo when

2:48

it comes to the electrification of

2:50

commercial equipment . First

2:53

of all , this guest actually

2:55

worked with Elon Musk at Tesla

2:57

. Second of all , this

2:59

guest has had over 15

3:01

years in working

3:03

on the electrification of

3:05

vehicles . There's not too many people

3:08

who can say that . But

3:10

most importantly , this particular

3:12

guest and the company that he

3:14

founded , Range Energy , has

3:16

taken an approach

3:18

with the electrification of commercial

3:21

equipment in a completely

3:23

different direction than

3:25

what you think when you hear electrification

3:29

of commercial equipment . So for all

3:31

of these reasons , I was extremely

3:33

excited to interview my

3:36

guest today , and , in addition

3:38

to that , they actually

3:40

set up a podcast studio

3:42

in the back of a 53-foot trailer

3:44

at the convention site . So

3:47

, whereas most of my interviews were conducted

3:49

in the booth , this particular

3:51

interview is conducted in this awesome

3:54

podcast suite where we were able to

3:56

sit down on like couches and

3:58

there was soft lighting and it was so comfortable

4:00

and it was such a great opportunity to

4:02

have a really extended conversation

4:05

at least an extended conversation

4:07

from the perspective of being at a trade show

4:09

to talk about this

4:11

incredible technology and

4:13

the way they've gone about challenging

4:15

the status quo in the trucking industry

4:17

. So I'm going to let my guest introduce himself

4:20

and we're going to get right into the

4:22

interview . I hope you enjoy it as much

4:24

as I did .

4:25

Hi , my name is Ali Javidon . I'm the founder

4:27

and CEO at Range Energy .

4:29

Well , this is not the usual setup

4:31

for me at a trade show . We are here

4:33

at TMC and my guest

4:35

today was kind enough to create a

4:37

podcast booth just for this interview

4:40

.

4:40

Just for you , just for me . I really appreciate it

4:42

.

4:42

My guest today is Ali Javidon . He's the CEO

4:44

of Range Energy . Welcome to the Heavy Duty Podcast .

4:46

Thank you so much , so glad that we can spend some time

4:48

together . Yeah

4:54

, yeah , it's great to finally meet you , and I'm glad we could host you inside of our drive-in

4:56

, that's right .

4:57

Our alpha trailer . So this is the Technology

4:59

and Maintenance Council . It's a big fleet show . We're in New

5:01

Orleans right now , and this

5:03

is a time when the whole trucking industry comes

5:05

together , and so it was a great opportunity

5:07

for us to talk about what

5:09

your company is , what it does , how

5:12

it's really changing things in the industry

5:14

. But before we get into that , tell me a little

5:16

bit about the trends that you saw

5:18

. That , as a CEO and founder

5:20

, made you see an opportunity to help

5:23

the trucking industry .

5:24

Yeah . So back in around

5:26

2020 , 2021

5:29

, early 2021 , I started to think kind of

5:31

what my next career move was going to be and

5:34

I recognized that there was a lot

5:36

of effort and energy being put in the

5:38

commercial electrification and

5:40

just generally commercial decarbonization

5:42

and I've been in the electric vehicle space

5:45

for the last 15 years , a little bit more

5:47

than that and so as

5:49

I started to look at opportunities and obviously

5:51

I started to see the big stuff you know , the Tesla

5:53

Semi and Freightliner E-Cascadia

5:55

and all of this other stuff and

5:58

one of the areas that so I

6:00

started to recognize that a lot of these solutions

6:03

required massive changes

6:05

to operations and to infrastructure

6:07

to adopt . You know , when you electrify

6:10

the primary mover , that's it . If

6:12

that thing isn't charged or it's not working

6:14

or there's a problem , your customers are

6:16

not getting the load Right , and so

6:19

you couple

6:21

that that kind of you know this is

6:23

a very binary , like everything's going

6:25

great or everything's really scary moment with

6:28

the . Looking at the space

6:31

of innovation , one of the areas

6:33

that I noticed no matter what , you know , whether

6:35

it was the super truck program or any

6:37

of the electrified or hydrogen

6:40

solutions , fuel cell solutions I

6:43

recognized that the trailer was staying the same

6:45

and nobody was innovating on the trailer

6:47

. And I've been driving trucks and trailers mostly

6:50

kind of small scale driving trucks

6:52

and trailers since I was around 14 or 15 years old

6:54

and I know

6:56

the kind of anxiety

6:58

that a driver has , I know the

7:00

safety implications

7:02

that exist when you're pulling on

7:05

, when you're towing a trailer , especially

7:07

in the class eight space , and

7:09

so I had this kind of immediate

7:11

empathy for the driver and

7:14

for the industry , thinking

7:16

, well , what's going on with

7:18

the trailers ? Nothing's being done to the trailers

7:20

. And so that's when I realized

7:22

, well , we should think about electrifying

7:24

the trailers . What happens when we electrify the

7:26

trailers ? And as I started to

7:28

think through that , we were thinking about efficiency

7:31

and energy . Safety started to

7:33

pop up because now the electric

7:35

axle can actually act as

7:37

a new braking modality for the trailer

7:39

, augmenting the ABS and the friction

7:41

brakes , and so you can go down a long

7:43

grade , a long mountain grade six

7:46

, seven percent , and the trailer will actually hold

7:48

the system speed and put that energy

7:50

back into the battery pack of

7:52

the trailer . And then you start thinking about

7:54

operational fit . Well , if you buy

7:56

an eSemi , you have to also

7:59

buy some property . You have to buy megawatt

8:01

charging , you have to hopefully the

8:03

utilities will show up someday all

8:05

of that stuff , plus the CapEx , to

8:07

do all of that work . Well , the trailer has

8:09

to be parked somewhere , and generally

8:11

it's parked at the loading dock when it's getting loaded and

8:13

unloaded . And so if we can build

8:16

a charging infrastructure that

8:18

works while the trailer is at the loading

8:21

dock being loaded and unloaded with

8:23

goods , then now this

8:25

is a decarbonization solution . That

8:27

number one works on the tractors

8:29

that exist and will continue to

8:31

work on the electric tractors or the compressed

8:34

natural gas or fuel cell or whatever

8:36

. The direction is that we go in the future and

8:38

do things like double the range of an E-Cascadia

8:41

, for example . And

8:43

then there's the operational

8:45

fit . This

8:48

has to fit in the way that the fleets

8:50

work today , because the worst thing I could

8:52

possibly do as a quote unquote technologist

8:54

or a Silicon Valley person is to

8:56

show up and say look at how cool this

8:58

thing is that we made . You

9:00

guys aren't working very efficiently

9:03

. Change everything about what you're doing to use this

9:05

. We go the opposite . We say

9:07

how do you work and how can we develop

9:09

tools to slide

9:11

into the operations that you have today and bring

9:14

a marked benefit ?

9:15

So when we talk about

9:17

the general trend of electrification , you

9:19

saw that because people were ignoring

9:21

the trailer , there was an opportunity . Now

9:24

were you the first person to approach that

9:26

and try that ? Or is this a completely

9:29

untouched area ? Or has other people

9:31

gone there before and were unsuccessful

9:33

, and you found a way to succeed ?

9:36

So the short answer is that other people have tried this

9:38

before . The a

9:40

little bit longer answer is that back

9:43

in 2008 , we actually

9:45

talked about electrified trailers at the early days

9:47

of Tesla . When we were talking , you

9:49

know , brainstorming this was like in

9:51

the early roadster times and we were ideating

9:53

the sedan and

9:55

what that sedan could look like and

9:57

what the features could be , and we were also thinking about

9:59

what else has to be true for electric

10:01

vehicles to proliferate on the roads and we were thinking

10:04

supercharger networks at that time and all of

10:06

that . Electric trailers was actually an

10:08

idea that a few folks within

10:10

this early r&d team had

10:12

and it was just a kind of a fun thing

10:14

and and uh and yes , since in

10:16

the let's say , if we fast forward to

10:18

the last three or four or five years , there

10:21

have been folks like highly on trailer dynamics

10:23

and others that have attempted this type of

10:25

work , and and trailer dynamics is actually making

10:28

some headway in Europe , but

10:36

nobody has done this kind of full systems approach where you actually incorporate functional safety

10:38

, where you incorporate things like torque security in your drive stack , where

10:40

you actually develop a purpose-built

10:42

battery system for this environment

10:45

something that can work in Minnesota as

10:47

well as it works in the summer in Texas

10:49

, really thinking about

10:52

this as a true vehicle or a

10:54

true robot with full

10:56

safety . That's basically

10:59

in the form of the things that we know how

11:01

to use , and

11:06

so that was the kind of you know , thinking about everything

11:08

that had been out there before and thinking about the complications that

11:10

were in the previous stacks of ideas

11:13

and things . We really wanted to dramatically

11:15

simplify everything , and one

11:18

thing that we have been able to do that nobody has ever

11:20

been able to do is use the kingpin

11:22

as the primary input for

11:24

the trailer controls , and what that does now

11:27

is that that's what truly

11:29

allows us to work on an old Peterbilt

11:31

or Freightliner or a brand

11:33

new Tesla . E-semi is

11:35

because we're not relying on any data connection

11:37

. We're just sensing how hard the

11:39

tractor is pulling and we tell the trailer

11:42

come along and make yourself feel weightless , both in

11:44

acceleration but also in regen

11:46

as well , and that's how we can get double

11:48

the fuel economy . You know if you're

11:50

getting five or six miles per gallon now

11:52

, you're getting 10 or 11 , maybe 12

11:54

miles per gallon , depending on the route . We're

11:57

reducing harmful diesel particulate emissions

11:59

by about 70% , and

12:01

that's really because we are able to

12:03

hook up to any of these tractors and really

12:05

sense the intention of the tractor

12:07

and the driver and just have the trailer

12:09

be a very , very fast fall .

12:12

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12:14

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12:16

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12:51

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12:53

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13:00

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spend hours a day looking for parts . Instead , visit finditpartscom and get them right away . We're

13:09

back from the break , and before the break I thought Ali did an

13:11

excellent job of explaining their origin

13:14

story , of their company , of how

13:16

he came about this idea to

13:18

add an electric propulsion

13:20

system onto trailers , and

13:22

now we're going to really dive into

13:24

the impact this technology is having

13:26

on drivers and the fleets

13:29

that operate this commercial equipment

13:31

. I hope you enjoy the rest of this interview

13:33

. So I remember

13:35

when something like an automated transmission

13:37

came out the drivers . It took a

13:39

number of years for drivers to

13:41

really , who had always done it the

13:43

old way to adapt

13:46

, really

13:49

who had always done it the old way to adapt . Now I'm imagining they're still driving an ICE

13:51

vehicle , right ? Maybe they've adapted to an automated

13:54

transmission and now you want them to pull an electrified

13:56

trailer . Like , is that dramatically

13:59

changing the driving experience and

14:01

what ? How have the drivers reacted

14:03

when they've tested this for the first time ?

14:05

Yeah , that's a great question , so I'll give you a little bit of

14:07

another verbose

14:09

answer . So before I was

14:11

doing any electrification , I spent about 10 years

14:13

in the motorsport industry as a race engineer and

14:16

one of the most important lessons I learned as a race

14:18

engineer is that if the driver

14:20

is absolutely confident in the driver's seat

14:22

, then you can extract all

14:24

of the speed you ever want out of that car . And

14:26

if the car can't go any faster , it's not because the driver

14:28

is not comfortable . And that driver is

14:31

your primary point of feedback .

14:32

So just let me ask you something . So if the

14:34

driver isn't comfortable , you could

14:36

have better technology on the car and get slower

14:39

speeds , absolutely , and if they're comfortable

14:41

, you could have at least at par

14:43

or better technology and get maximum out of

14:45

that .

14:51

That's right . In racing it's a little bit of a different scenario because you're talking about how do

14:53

you get the driver to push the car to 10 tenths all the time ? And if they're not comfortable , no matter

14:55

how much technology or how much grip those tires

14:57

have or downforce has , that driver's

14:59

not going to get to eight tenths or nine tenths , to

15:01

even touch 10 tenths . But if they're confident

15:04

, even if that car has inferior tires

15:06

or inferior aero , if the driver's

15:08

at 10 tenths they can do heroic

15:10

things into turns and out of turns . They

15:12

have that confidence to charge through

15:15

the race .

15:15

But there is a correlation with professional

15:18

drivers on the road . I mean getting

15:20

that the most out of your truck and trailer

15:22

is like the essential

15:25

job of the driver . Maybe the

15:27

only thing more important than that is maintaining safety

15:29

so that the public are safe .

15:31

Yeah , so what we do is how we carry

15:33

that into our

15:36

time here . Essentially , what

15:38

we've been able to do with the

15:40

kind of the driver feedback

15:42

is that we are now actively

15:45

looking for areas that the driver

15:47

feels uncomfortable and we have

15:49

our powertrain support in those moments

15:51

. So when you're facing up a hill , we have

15:53

enough sensing in this trailer to know exactly

15:55

what you're doing , where you're looking so you're climbing the

15:57

mountains in colorado or we're

15:59

helping assist up . so at the grapevine

16:01

, which is a route in southern california , six

16:04

percent grade , 42 miles over a mountain

16:06

, we were our tractor trailer

16:08

did 60% throttle , 55

16:10

miles an hour , loaded up that mountain , didn't

16:12

touch the brakes on the backside of the mountain and

16:15

we put all that regen energy back into the

16:17

trailer and what that does is that gives

16:19

the driver the confidence to know if

16:21

they can . If they need to pass somebody , they can . If

16:24

they need to slow down , they have nice cold brakes

16:26

ready to be applied

16:28

any time . So that they have that driver's

16:31

confidence . And so the last piece I'll

16:33

say is that we've done a couple of customer pilots

16:35

and one of the customer pilots they had just

16:37

come off of a pilot with an electric semi

16:39

. That electric semi company

16:43

gave a rating

16:45

of basically a score chart to each

16:47

driver Out of 110 points

16:49

. That electric semi scored

16:52

a 77 out of 110 . In that

16:54

fleet we use the same

16:56

word for word , we use the same exact

16:58

survey with the drivers , and the drivers

17:00

getting out of their own tractor with

17:03

our trailer scored 108 out of

17:05

110 . And we got quotes

17:07

like holy moly , you made my tractor

17:09

feel like my Tesla . And

17:11

we're really , really actively targeting

17:13

the driver experience because

17:16

, ultimately , the driver experience

17:18

is also going to correlate with efficiency

17:20

and , most importantly , with safety .

17:23

Yeah . So now the trailer

17:25

gets pulled into a shop and a technician

17:28

looks at it . How are you

17:30

going to support the maintenance

17:32

, the replacement parts , the inevitable repairs

17:35

and diagnostics that are going to need to be done

17:37

? How are you going to support that throughout the industry ?

17:40

So diagnostics is a little bit of

17:42

an aside , but basically what we're doing is we're

17:44

building a standardized kind of diagnostics

17:46

protocol and communications protocol . That

17:48

information will be available to any of the

17:50

fleet or sorry , fleet

17:53

management tools or diagnostic tools

17:55

that the fleets currently use .

17:58

So we're not proposing You're not trying to reinvent

18:00

the wheel when it comes to fault codes or anything

18:02

like that .

18:03

Yeah , we're basically kind of going with industry standards

18:05

here , and the intention here again

18:07

kind of leading into this industry with humility

18:10

is that you know , when

18:12

we enter a fleet and we start talking to

18:14

a fleet , one of the first things we do is

18:16

we'll go sit and talk to the union steward , we'll talk to

18:18

the mechanics , we'll talk to the fleet operators and

18:20

we'll understand even down to what tools

18:22

they have in their toolbox Right down to what tools they have in

18:24

their toolbox . So the intention here is that this trailer

18:26

should be able to show up to any fleet yard

18:29

and be serviced using the same exact

18:31

tools . And yeah , maybe the axle now

18:33

has a bigger lump in the middle of the wheel

18:35

ends . But the wheel ends are the same . Same

18:37

brake tools on the wheel end , same lug nuts

18:39

, same all of that other stuff . It's just this lump

18:42

in the middle is a little bit different .

18:43

You're not adding complexity to

18:45

the technician's world , no

18:51

way .

18:51

No way , actually , I used to be an ASE certified master technician .

18:53

You've done a lot in your life my friend .

18:55

Yeah , I have , and I've worked on cars

18:57

and trucks . I still work on them at

18:59

home , and so I'm

19:01

incredibly empathetic to all

19:04

of the different folks that keep this industry

19:06

running . I'm incredibly empathetic to all of the different folks

19:08

that keep this industry running , and we want to make sure that everywhere

19:10

that we bring a new piece of technology , it feels

19:13

familiar and it feels like something

19:15

that is comfortable to use , even

19:17

if it's something completely new to the fleet .

19:19

Yeah Well , it has been a wonderful

19:21

opportunity to talk to you . I'm very excited

19:23

to see where you take this company and how you continue

19:26

to transform the trucking industry . Maybe

19:28

, just by way of conclusion , could

19:30

you just talk a little bit more about

19:33

the anticipated benefits

19:35

that fleets are going to get by

19:37

utilizing your trailer technology .

19:39

Yeah , so on the very

19:41

, very surface is that we get

19:44

about 40 to 50% better fuel economy

19:46

. So if you're getting five or six miles per

19:48

gallon , expect to get um 11

19:50

or 12 miles per gallon , uh , uh

19:53

, and then , if , uh , and

19:55

then we're reducing the diesel emissions

19:57

and the harmful particulates by about 70 percent

19:59

.

20:00

so that's the kind of no other change to no other

20:02

change to anything , anything nothing at all .

20:04

Um , that's just on the quick on , on the surface

20:07

, and if you don't have any charging infrastructure

20:09

in your fleet , we get about 10% better

20:11

fuel economy because we're regenning through that

20:13

axle Right . And so there are fleets that

20:15

are running routes and running lanes without

20:18

charging at all and

20:20

seeing net benefits Because there's also in

20:22

addition to the efficiency benefits . Our system

20:25

can run a reefer , especially if you're

20:27

running over the road , we can actually run

20:29

that reefer essentially indefinitely

20:32

by turning up and down the regen

20:34

on the axle , and so there's a bunch

20:37

of different benefits there , and the

20:39

important piece here is that we're

20:41

building this trailer as a new platform

20:43

for all of the other stuff that's

20:45

showing up trailer

20:49

as a new platform for all of the other stuff that's showing up electric

20:51

lift gates , uh solar , uh electric , tru exactly all of that stuff , and so

20:53

our battery and the generator

20:55

that is the e-axle will also

20:57

act as the power supply and

21:00

the power generation plant within the trailer

21:02

to power all of these other ancillary

21:04

components that are coming out . So we're just

21:06

starting just by driving and showing the

21:08

efficiency information and the safety stuff . We're

21:11

just scratching the surface of the opportunity for

21:13

these trailers and these fleets .

21:14

And when it comes to the way

21:17

that a fleet specs this , is it only

21:19

on new trailers or is there a retrofit

21:22

option that's going to be available ?

21:23

The retrofit option is a real thing . We

21:26

, you know , thanks to the industry that have standardized

21:28

a lot of things like tandem sliders and things

21:30

like that , and so our , our

21:33

slider will carry over from

21:35

you know , your we can . We can basically

21:37

build a kit that gets retrofit into your old

21:39

trailer Fantastic . The last element sorry

21:41

from your last question about charging , because this is something

21:43

I think a lot of the customers

21:46

are going to be asking or the listeners are going to be asking

21:48

about . Charging is something

21:50

that's very , very important to this industry and the

21:52

infrastructure around charging is very important . If

21:55

you think of an electric tractor , you have

21:57

to install megawatt charging , you have to do 800

21:59

megawatt , 1.2 megawatt charging

22:01

stations . And those tractors

22:04

, every time they're parked they're burning money . The

22:06

trailers because they're parked at a loading dock . We

22:12

can charge at the loading dock using shore power because we can actually leverage

22:15

150 kilowatt , 200 kilowatt , 300

22:17

kilowatt DC . Fast chargers that are

22:19

readily available in the automotive space , that

22:21

can use building power and

22:24

just charge at the loading dock . Dc or

22:26

, even better , some of our beverage

22:29

routes . They just hook up overnight and

22:31

the thing is loaded up overnight . The

22:33

driver shows up in the morning .

22:35

Charge ready to go .

22:36

It's charged ready to go , and we just use level two

22:38

charging , basically that you can buy off of Amazon

22:40

, and so the charging solution becomes much

22:42

more flexible . This way , obviously

22:45

, our trailer will also charge off the megawatt charging

22:47

that most of the fleets are building . But

22:49

that charging element is a very , very important piece

22:51

to this , because it oftentimes

22:53

just gets kind of brushed under the rug .

22:55

Well , and especially over the years where we're

22:57

going to do this transition , this is not going to

22:59

happen all at once , so there's going to be different

23:02

scenarios at different locations

23:04

as each fleet and each location

23:07

gets to that level of

23:09

electrification .

23:10

Yeah , and then you start thinking about the warehouse operators

23:12

, like the prologists of the world . As they build

23:14

new warehouses , they start to see

23:17

technology like this and they incorporate

23:19

that charging at the loading dock

23:21

. So then it truly becomes completely

23:23

transparent , no matter what your lanes look

23:25

like or what your operations are

23:28

.

23:28

You've been listening to the Heavy-Duty Parts Report . My

23:30

name is Jamie Irvin . I've been speaking with Ali Javidan

23:32

. He is the CEO and founder of Range

23:34

Energy . If you'd like to learn more , go to rangeenergy

23:38

. Links will be in the show notes , Ali

23:40

.

23:40

thank you so much for being on the show . Thank you so much and thanks for

23:42

building a podcast studio for us . That was great .

23:51

Yeah , of course , adding an electric propulsion system on a commercial trailer definitely qualifies as

23:53

challenging the status quo in the trucking industry in my books . I hope you enjoyed

23:55

that awesome interview . This

23:58

episode originally aired on Monday

24:00

, april 15th 2024

24:02

. And I am on my way down

24:04

, as we speak , to Grapevine , texas

24:07

, which is just outside of Dallas , for

24:09

HDA Truck Pride's annual

24:11

meeting . I'll be conducting several

24:13

interviews with HDA Truck Pride members

24:15

. These are parts and service locations

24:18

that serve the trucking industry . We're

24:20

going to be talking about the challenges they're facing

24:23

, some of the innovative things they are doing

24:25

to overcome those challenges and

24:27

the benefits of being a member of

24:29

HDA Truck Pride . These interviews

24:31

are going to air in May , so

24:40

if you haven't already , head over to heavydutypartsreportcom . Sign up to our weekly email

24:42

. You'll get one email a week where we update you on the

24:44

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25:00

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25:09

you so much for your ongoing support of

25:11

the Heavy-Duty Parts Report . My name is Jamie

25:13

Irvin , I'm your host and , as always

25:15

, I want to encourage you to

25:17

be heavy duty .