0:05

Hey everybody , welcome to the Herdfit Podcast

0:07

with Dr Sam Rhee and myself , coach

0:10

David Silverton . His podcast is

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aimed at helping anyone and everyone looking

0:14

to enhance their healthy lifestyle through fitness

0:16

, nutrition and , most importantly

0:18

, mindset . Alright

0:22

, welcome back to the Herdfit Podcast . I am Coach

0:24

David Silverton . I'm here with my co-host

0:26

, dr and Coach Sam Rhee . We

0:28

are currently sitting in here while Open

0:31

Gym is going on , just a few weeks away

0:33

from the CrossFit Open . You ever

0:35

noticed this time in your Open Gym , there's a little bit extra juice

0:37

in there .

0:37

Absolutely . People are practicing so many different movements

0:40

right now .

0:41

Yeah , I think I just saw Amy's daughter practicing pullovers

0:43

. That reminded me that I've never tried one my

0:45

entire life . Are you going to ? I probably

0:48

will at some point , but I will

0:50

not have the gym do them unless

0:52

I feel they're ultra safe . I just feel

0:54

there's going to be some really bad things happening if we have

0:56

a lot of people try them . I'm going to tell you , if you make me

0:58

try it , I will kill myself . That's

1:01

one of those things I think every now and then you pull

1:03

a hard no on . Are we here for

1:05

fitness ? Are we here for fitness ? Okay , yes , we are

1:08

. We're not doing pullovers , but

1:10

if it's something that you want to learn , that's awesome . I could definitely

1:13

probably work with you or put

1:15

in some sort of skill class or something about bringing into

1:17

bison at some point . But

1:19

now this is a great time of year . Early

1:22

February into mid-February , into the

1:24

open , is always there's

1:26

like an extra buzz , a little bit of extra energy

1:29

, extra adrenaline coming into

1:31

the gym . I

1:33

kind of want to correlate this to the state of CrossFit

1:35

. That's where this episode is

1:37

going to start and it's going to

1:39

end with my experience

1:41

on the Savon podcast , which was

1:43

last Sunday . I heard

1:46

I'm going to have my balls busted by Sam

1:48

, by Sam .

1:49

Well , you are the most famous person at bison right now . So

1:51

there you go .

1:52

So that will , and part of

1:55

Savon state of CrossFit

1:57

, state of bison even , is

1:59

just . I think they're all intertwined . As

2:02

CrossFit grows under this new leadership , there

2:05

have been some significant changes and

2:07

the way we find out about these significant

2:09

changes is from the media types

2:11

and it's that media outside

2:14

of CrossFit , not those that are actually

2:16

being paid by CrossFit to do it . So

2:18

that market is , I would even say , rapidly

2:20

growing between Savon , hiller

2:23

, Coffee Pods and Wads

2:25

, caterbells and Cocktails , herdfit podcast

2:28

coming up

2:30

from the rear talking Lee Fitness , the

2:32

CrossFit Games podcast I mean

2:34

we can keep going on . Buttery bros , all these guys

2:36

, the media . This is the sign

2:38

of a growing business . Take CrossFit out of it , any

2:41

business or sport where you

2:43

start to see a lot of different media

2:45

types and personalities coming

2:47

in with a lot of followers , and

2:49

it creates a

2:52

lot of extra opinion and information

2:55

, maybe even debate on how

2:57

things should be done . And I remember

2:59

Dave Cash was saying this years ago when

3:01

someone asked you , like Hiller , like do you

3:03

guys get along with each other ? And

3:06

he says it's necessary for the sport , is

3:08

it necessary for the business , for the brand

3:11

to grow ? I'm not sure . But let's get into talking

3:13

about where the business is quickly . We

3:16

don't have to dive too deep . I have

3:18

been listening to a lot of Don Follies . He's doing a very good job

3:20

as the CEO , getting out on

3:22

a lot of different podcasts . I was thinking about reaching

3:24

out to him to have him come back on here .

3:26

Yeah , I saw him at the health summit

3:29

and I talked to him briefly and

3:31

he actually had some thoughts that

3:34

I was going to share

3:36

on the other episode , but I'll share it right now . He

3:39

recognized me . I mean , as part

3:41

of CrossFit Bison we talked briefly

3:43

. I always

3:45

buttonhole him about the app , right , because I'm

3:47

like , hey , we need a CrossFit app . That's

3:49

the way we're going to grow the business . And

3:52

it's funny that you said that , because I said

3:54

everything

3:57

that CrossFit does , every effort

3:59

, every marketing outreach

4:01

media . I

4:03

filter that through the lens of my

4:06

family . So it

4:08

was funny . Nicole Carroll was the keynote

4:10

speaker . She said her mother's

4:12

, a three-time cancer survivor , doesn't exercise

4:15

. Don Foll parents

4:17

remember he was on our podcast never

4:19

tried CrossFit . Your parents

4:21

, I don't think they've ever tried CrossFit

4:23

. Your brother does , but not all your

4:25

brothers , my brothers , my

4:27

parents , don't do CrossFit . And

4:30

for me , I look at it as

4:32

if I could have something

4:35

that I could pin to

4:37

CrossFit that my family might

4:39

be like oh , this might be

4:41

interesting . I would say that's

4:43

a win , whether it's a

4:45

celebrity endorser , whether it's some sort of

4:47

mass marketing media , some viral thing , I

4:49

don't know , an app that is easy to get into

4:51

. So I told

4:53

him I feel like for CrossFit

4:56

to grow , if we

4:58

ourselves cannot get the people closest

5:00

to us to join CrossFit , then

5:03

we have issues . The media is

5:05

great , buttery bros savon us

5:07

, but we're preaching to the faithful

5:10

and so it's like

5:12

outreach , how I mean , it's kind of like a

5:14

religion . It's kind of weird , like how do you go and

5:16

increase the outreach ? We're sermonizing

5:19

and we're preaching

5:21

to all the different denominations within CrossFit

5:23

, but how are we reaching out to others

5:25

and making it more appealing ? And he said

5:27

, funny enough , he did take his

5:29

parents for the first time to a CrossFit

5:32

box at Lake Tahoe and they were on vacation . And

5:34

I said how did it go ? And he said awful

5:36

, it was terrible . He

5:38

said they did a 24 minute email

5:41

and it ground them into

5:43

the ground . It was so hard . And

5:46

he said , oh , it was . It was not

5:48

a bad workout , but obviously for someone who's never

5:50

done it , it was terrible . And they were very polite

5:52

and they said to him you know there's thank you , but

5:54

they would like , probably , if

5:56

asked , would never want to step foot

5:58

in a box again . And so he

6:00

said I got to work on it and it's going to happen

6:03

. But he also

6:05

had some insight into , like

6:07

some of the obstacles and challenges

6:09

that we have . It's not easy

6:11

stuff and that's

6:14

really and so that was enlightening

6:16

to me , when Don Faw tells

6:18

you that his parents did

6:20

not have necessarily the best initial experience

6:22

what we have to work on .

6:24

That is really interesting because , as you're talking about this , I'm trying

6:26

to tie this to my parents . Right , my parents are going to

6:28

come over today for the Super Bowl . I

6:30

forget when we're in this , it's going to be a few weeks later

6:33

, but they are coming over this afternoon for the Super

6:35

Bowl . And it's funny , the Super Bowl Sundays in my family

6:37

we usually don't eat very well some chicken , wings

6:39

and some other chips and dips

6:41

and all this stuff . And I'm

6:43

thinking maybe , as they're getting older , right

6:46

, my dad's going to turn 70 soon . You know , I

6:48

would have a hard time sending him to

6:50

any box If I'm there , I'll

6:52

feel better about it . And he has asked me

6:54

we've got him a rower , we got him some dumbbells

6:57

. He is doing different kinds of workouts than

6:59

he ever has , because

7:01

he was just a runner , elliptical guy for a long time

7:03

and he

7:05

has . I could tell he's into fitness

7:07

or he's always worked out . Why haven't

7:09

I , as

7:12

his son right , pushed

7:14

him towards more CrossFit style

7:16

training ? I mean , no , not gonna

7:18

have him go do Fran the second day . He does

7:20

CrossFit , but why not

7:22

air squats and ring roads Like , why wouldn't

7:25

you do some sort of that ? And it is , I actually

7:27

think CrossFit affiliate owners

7:29

myself included and coaches it's

7:34

easier when someone comes to the gym that wants

7:36

to come there and has it , like

7:38

whenever someone joins our gym from another gym that

7:40

has two years of experience . We just had someone

7:42

that came over from Linnhurst , moved out here from Linnhurst

7:45

and she's formerly from Florida and

7:47

she comes in , she knows how to squat , it's easy and

7:49

she wants to be here and I love working with

7:51

that . It's challenging to

7:53

get someone that doesn't really want

7:56

to come but will come because I asked them , and

7:58

to really kind of guide them from step one

8:00

. But as an owner and as

8:02

someone that does want to see the brand grow and prosper

8:05

and affect more lives which that 25

8:08

to 30 million number is still stuck

8:10

in my head from what Don Falk told us when he was here it

8:13

should start with our families , like if

8:15

you had every single one of our members try

8:17

to get one family member here could

8:20

we double the size of this gym . Think about that

8:22

Easily , yeah , yeah , you know . And

8:25

I mean take the business side out of it and I'm

8:27

like immediately thinking , oh my God , we're gonna have 60 person

8:29

classes . Take that out

8:31

of it . I mean create another gym , get a bigger gym , all

8:33

that stuff right ? That is a really

8:36

interesting . Can you put the pressure on

8:38

us as Crossfitters not just coaches

8:40

, owners , everyone . Can you get one person in

8:42

your family to do Crossfit ? That's a really

8:44

next step . I think that is

8:46

when he talks about the number of

8:49

people that he wants to do it , both with us and on

8:51

the podcast I have recently listened to

8:53

. The numbers seem unrealistic

8:55

. Until you go down that path , can every

8:58

Crossfitter get a family member in ? And I bet

9:00

it could be more than that . I hope their marketing

9:02

efforts are geared toward that as well . So recently

9:05

, so we're now sitting here in February . Last

9:07

month was the install

9:10

of raising affiliate prices . It

9:13

went from three grand a year to

9:15

4,500 per year , which , just

9:18

so you know , all things considered , is very

9:20

cheap compared to Orange

9:22

Theory , f-45 , Goldstream , all that

9:24

stuff . Absolutely , it's not even close . But

9:27

the problem is two things

9:30

. They made that a flat rate for

9:32

everyone 4,500 bucks , no

9:34

matter if you're paying three grand or a grandfathered

9:37

rate from 2008 where you're paying 500

9:39

bucks a month . So if you're talking about

9:41

percentage of spending , some

9:44

people did see a 900%

9:46

increase . Most people saw a

9:48

50% increase , if you

9:50

wanna relate that ? For those that are paying

9:52

a gym membership right now CrossFit Bison

9:55

January we increase

9:57

our membership for the first time in five years and

10:01

we got everyone , for the most part , to a flat

10:03

rate and to some people that

10:06

was a 5%

10:08

increase . To some people that was a

10:10

30% increase . Still

10:12

, none of them was 50% . But act like

10:14

this if you wanna try to put

10:16

this perspective into your head if

10:19

we increased everyone's price 50%

10:22

, so we took half of what you used to be paying and

10:24

we said we're gonna add half of that to your

10:26

current price , what would your reaction

10:28

be ? And naturally , a

10:31

lot of affiliate owners were very unhappy

10:33

about that news . And he

10:35

did explain why . He

10:38

was really transparent on the Kettlebells and Cocktails

10:41

podcast and he said that

10:43

private equity owns over half

10:46

of CrossFit and which

10:48

is basically a fancy way of saying a

10:50

group of investors own

10:52

it and they are doing it to make money , to make a profit

10:55

. That is why they did it . It wasn't to help

10:57

the community , it was to make money . They're gonna sell

10:59

it out off at some point . He threw out

11:01

the number five to seven years . They're in year

11:03

four right now , prior

11:05

to 2022 , they were break even

11:08

. Crossfit as a business was break even

11:10

, so they were not profitable . And

11:12

to try to reverse this ship

11:14

, they said they had to do two things , which

11:16

is pretty common . All right , if you wanna dumb this down

11:19

, you have to cut costs and

11:21

raise revenue .

11:22

That's what every PE firm does . Yeah , mfers

11:24

, they are MFers . I'm sorry , they are MFers

11:27

.

11:27

That's fine , we can get into that , because I do .

11:28

I wanna get your opinion on that they might have destroyed healthcare

11:31

in a huge way .

11:31

so far as well their involvement , but whatever go

11:34

on and so basically

11:36

what they do is they did cut a lot of costs , they

11:38

laid off a lot of staff , which was a big story

11:40

by Morning Chalk Up and Savanna and Hiller right

11:42

. He just announced that they're going to take

11:44

a significant amount

11:47

of funding out of the CrossFit Games , out

11:49

of sport . He said Moving

11:51

from Madison to Fort Worth was part of that . It's

11:54

a lot cheaper down there . They are getting the

11:56

masters teens adaptive away

11:58

from the games and we're gonna get into that at

12:01

some point , maybe in

12:03

this episode , but we have Joe Linton coming on . Well , by

12:05

the time this episode my chronological right

12:07

now is all thrown off . We had Joe on a few weeks

12:09

ago , so you can hear about that , but

12:12

basically and now they have

12:14

so they cut all these costs and now they have to raise

12:16

revenue , and raising revenue , he said , was

12:19

transparent Part of the plan is

12:21

to make the affiliates pay

12:23

more money . So you're not an affiliate

12:25

owner , sam , but you're very involved here . I

12:28

would even say like there's a lot of stock and an

12:30

emotional stock that you have in Bison , where

12:33

what was your reaction

12:35

when you saw that price increase come ?

12:39

It was measured , it depended

12:41

on what they were gonna use it for , and

12:44

right now it's unclear what PE

12:46

is going to use that for . Is it to

12:48

raise their

12:50

number so they look like a profitable

12:52

business , so they can present better

12:55

to a buyer ? Because if that's all they're

12:57

doing , that's an awful reason to

12:59

raise prices . If they're going to reinvest that

13:01

into CrossFit on some

13:03

level , then I'm all for it . I'm

13:06

a little afraid it's the former , not the latter . They

13:08

wanna present a rosier financial

13:10

picture , and that because

13:13

they wanna sell it . Yeah . So they wanna say look , we've

13:15

just increased profit by 25%

13:18

over the past year and we project to do

13:20

it again . There's only so much

13:22

blood you can squeeze from a stone . That's a

13:24

one-off . So I don't know

13:26

Now if they actually care

13:28

about the long-term health and growth of

13:30

CrossFit , which I really doubt now . Okay

13:33

, let's do it .

13:34

Yeah , yeah , and so I mean

13:36

there's two sides to what

13:39

the direction of CrossFit is right now . I

13:42

personally do think I've

13:44

been an owner for 10 years now there

13:47

is more effort from HQ than there ever

13:49

has been when it comes to making

13:51

it a more sophisticated professional

13:54

environment for our parents

13:56

to go work out in , to

13:58

get 20 to 30 million people in , to

14:02

make the coaches better and

14:04

more informed . Now the other half

14:06

of it is those actual coaches

14:08

and affiliate owners need

14:11

to take advantage of the tools that have been given to us

14:13

right . There's an affiliate owner kit that is very

14:15

well put together . I wouldn't

14:17

say that when I read it , especially about running

14:19

classes and programming , that I learn a lot

14:21

because I already know it . But you'll still read

14:23

it and I'll tell you what . And our gym

14:26

, like to be blunt , is not struggling

14:28

. But if I was an affiliate owner

14:30

, that felt stuck and struggling

14:32

and I can't get over this next hump , which

14:34

I'm sure we will be at some point . There

14:37

are enough resources coming down from CrossFit

14:40

HQ that do increase

14:42

the value of them to us , because that

14:44

is always the common question from

14:46

affiliate owners on a part of a lot of chats

14:49

, group chats and Facebook groups of

14:51

affiliate owners . What

14:53

are we getting out of this ? Right , we're paying extra

14:56

money . What are we getting out of this ? Which is , you

14:58

know , typical of our society ? Now , what am I getting ? What

15:00

am I getting ? What am I getting Right ? And

15:02

I do think now , are you using them ? Is

15:04

it actually helping you ? That's up for debate . Um

15:06

, I want to tie this to bison . We increase

15:09

prices , um , and it wasn't because I want

15:11

a Lamborghini and a new house and go

15:13

on fancy vacations . Um

15:15

, our expenses have gone up a lot over

15:17

the past five years and we want

15:19

to make the gym better . How do we make the gym better

15:21

? There are some things that cost money , including making

15:24

our space bigger . Um , we

15:26

haven't really finalized these plans yet , but I

15:28

can say that I could tell you that we're locked into this space

15:30

now for a long time , with increased rent

15:32

, and we are getting more square

15:34

footage in this building , and it's going to give us

15:36

some opportunities . We have to narrow them down

15:38

and really decide what we're going to do , and we're going to do that in the

15:40

next few months probably three , four months of

15:42

what we're going to do with this entire building , starting

15:45

in January 2025 . And

15:48

that is going to provide a better

15:50

gym . It can help us update equipment . It can

15:52

also help it update our funding

15:55

for our staff , right ? Our coaches , our

15:57

part-time coaches , are already making more money

15:59

per class . We want to increase salaries

16:02

of all of our employees . So and all

16:04

this comes back to we want to make things better here

16:06

. So it's funny and ironic

16:08

that at Bison , our prices are increasing

16:11

at the same time as CrossFit HQ

16:13

is increasing their pricing , and I'm kind

16:16

of empathizing with them a little bit , because

16:18

if someone from Bison is like , bro , I don't want to pay another

16:20

30 bucks a month , what am I getting more out of it ? Well

16:22

, I'll have a list of things . Whether you use

16:24

them or not , is is not really I

16:27

don't really care . And or whether you

16:29

agree with them or not , I don't really care . Just

16:31

like an affiliate owner from you know

16:33

Missouri that's complaining about CrossFit HQ

16:35

not helping them out , it's really a matter

16:37

of are you maximizing what they're providing

16:40

for you and , if not , don't really care what the opinion

16:42

is . What do you think about that ?

16:44

Yes , what do you use

16:46

that they have provided for you ? Because , honestly

16:49

, you've homegrown most of the stuff that you do . You

16:51

don't use cap programming . You don't

16:53

use most of the tools that they have because

16:55

you don't need them . You don't need it , you're

16:57

already established . It's usually for growing gyms , yeah . So

17:00

, honestly , you're not actually using

17:02

anything CrossFit HQ uses and

17:05

a lot of established gyms , I

17:07

think , would have that attitude these

17:09

are tools I do not need . I

17:11

could do just fine and many have , especially

17:14

after the whole glassman thing

17:16

, disaffiliated and done perfectly

17:18

fine , right ? So I would say

17:21

, unless you're a starting gym , why

17:23

would you take advantage of that stuff ?

17:24

Yeah , it's more that the fact that

17:26

their effort is there , the opportunity

17:29

is there . If we ever do hit a snag

17:31

, we need a resource

17:35

to try and find where our holes are

17:37

in our business . I now know

17:39

that it's there . I am also

17:41

loyal to CrossFit . I actually think

17:43

that you

17:46

gotta be careful here , but paying $4,500

17:48

a year to be a part of CrossFit to me is still

17:50

on the cheap side and I feel like we're

17:52

not being taken advantage of , because no

17:55

paying consumer wants

17:57

to feel like the producer is

17:59

taking advantage of them and I don't feel like

18:01

CrossFit is taking advantage of us . I do think

18:03

they provide and put a lot

18:05

into the CrossFit Open , which is a huge

18:07

part of our business , and if they just stopped doing

18:09

that I would be like crap

18:11

. That's a big part of us and they run it and they

18:14

do , in my opinion , a pretty good job of running it and

18:16

we saw how big a production that announcement was last

18:18

year . There's a lot of funding that goes

18:20

into things and elements and variables

18:22

that make the Open what it is . So

18:25

that's part one . I do think they're making a better

18:27

effort at communicating . Me

18:30

. Communicating with them as an athlete , as

18:33

an owner , has been a lot

18:35

better in recent years . Since

18:37

Don Falls has been involved . I do see

18:40

them making more effort in media

18:42

production . I don't

18:44

have the solution for what should media

18:47

be within CrossFit to get people to walk

18:49

in our door ? Because there's

18:51

too many variables . I just don't have the answer . I

18:53

listen to people talk about what their commercials

18:56

need to be Like . Do I want to see a CrossFit

18:58

commercial in the Super Bowl tonight ? I

19:00

would love it , but it's like millions and millions

19:02

of dollars , and

19:04

would it get people to actually walk in our door ? Depends

19:07

on what the commercial is about . And then what do you

19:09

do once they're in your door ? Again , that's

19:11

the issue .

19:12

I don't think we're ready for an onslaught of

19:14

my dad to a CrossFit gym

19:16

. That would be a disaster right now

19:18

.

19:20

And I heard I actually heard a really cool idea

19:22

of his that they're starting to implement . It's not

19:24

their main focus right now . It's like they're trying

19:26

to make the at-home workout experience

19:28

better , Like a 90-day

19:31

plan where you do CrossFit on your own at your house

19:33

and then that gets you a little bit more confidence

19:35

to walk into a gym . Because they have done

19:37

studies again , something that you might not see

19:39

, but this is a big deal . They've done

19:42

studies on what have prevent people from coming to

19:44

the gyms and they say most of them feel like they're not fit

19:46

enough to go in .

19:46

And guess how you're going to get them to do that 90-day

19:49

workout ? An app , an app . I think

19:52

we're going to see one . I do think so . And he said wait

19:54

, have patience . But he said that last year , so I'm

19:56

still waiting . But listen , you have a bigger

19:58

platform now . I don't know

20:00

, I was going to transition to your .

20:02

Sivan , yeah , I'll transition to media , because

20:04

now we can sit here and talk boring business

20:07

, talk back and forth , and

20:09

I do think media plays a big part . That's

20:11

kind of where I want to take that conversation was

20:13

. Media plays a huge part

20:15

in the growth of CrossFit , and that

20:18

might be CrossFit

20:20

CrossFit media or it might be these guys

20:22

, these independent media sources

20:24

that really do feed

20:26

off of negative news and

20:29

so they can put their spin on it and get

20:31

a ton of reactions . Hiller has

20:33

made a I don't know how well he

20:35

does financially , but he's made a career out

20:37

of , you know , stuff that is

20:39

debated and can even come

20:41

across as combative and

20:44

can create two different camps within

20:46

the same team . Like , I still think there's old

20:48

school CrossFit and new school CrossFit

20:50

and for the most part , they don't get along

20:52

with each other , and I think a lot of these people in

20:54

media are from old school CrossFit

20:57

and things are not the way they used

20:59

to be , just like they're not the way

21:01

they used to be here at Bison either , by the way . Right

21:03

, it is very different than it was in 2016

21:06

and 17 . But you have

21:08

to evolve and hopefully the leadership in

21:10

place can keep the ship moving

21:13

In the right direction and CrossFit

21:15

leadership has been all over the place . I do

21:17

trust and believe in Don Fall , but the

21:19

media , to me , has

21:21

more influence than CrossFit HQ

21:24

staff and that can lead

21:26

us to being on Savon last week . Sam

21:30

, did you watch it ? What yours

21:32

? The interview with Savon , yours , yeah .

21:35

How often do you watch Savon ? Not

21:37

too often . He

21:39

is a great guy . I watch certain

21:41

topics but his

21:44

sort of flavor of his

21:46

take is sort of off color , like

21:48

sometimes very off color . I won't put some

21:50

examples , but even when he was talking to you I

21:52

was like what , why

21:54

would you even throw that in there ? And you kept

21:57

rolling with it a couple of times but

21:59

I was just like I don't know where this guy's mind

22:01

is . Sometimes he

22:04

is definitely marching to the beat of a different

22:07

drummer and I do know there are a lot of people at

22:09

our gym who like him and that's totally cool

22:11

. I understand that . For

22:13

me I take him in

22:15

very small doses .

22:17

Yeah , yeah , he's got a . I would say I

22:19

don't know if Cruz is the right work , but he's got a very interesting

22:22

in-your-face sense of humor , like

22:25

nothing is off limits when you talk

22:27

to him . Oh , and

22:29

that kind of humor to me it attracts

22:32

a lot of people and I think you

22:34

always have to know that If you're going

22:36

to be a big deal media , you kind of have to have

22:38

like that perception of having

22:40

a screw loose . But here's what I love

22:42

about Savon I think he loves , loves

22:45

affiliates .

22:46

Yep .

22:47

He loves the brand of CrossFit

22:49

Yep , and I think that he

22:51

has a lot of experience

22:53

pull influence

22:56

that can help

22:58

CrossFit gets to its peak . Does

23:01

he capitalize on it ? Does he actually

23:03

use it ? Can he stay humble

23:05

about it ? That remains

23:08

to be seen . We'll see , but I do think

23:10

that there is a lot of good in him and

23:12

what he produces . Producing

23:15

media every day is hard . That

23:17

is a really hard thing to do , but

23:20

we can get into what we talked about . Bust

23:22

on me a little bit . Yeah

23:25

, what was your experience like ? Yeah , I

23:27

mean , he contacted me on social media and this is

23:29

all open driven . I know it's not . I need

23:31

to talk to Dave . It's like all right , who has the most people signed

23:34

up ? All right , let's reach out to this guy . I

23:36

guess he talked to a few different people

23:38

. He said that on his podcast too , and

23:40

he found me on Instagram and

23:42

then got my cell phone number and we chatted

23:45

and at first I did

23:47

think it was a joke , because

23:49

I went to the profile that messaged

23:51

me and he's got like 4,000 followers

23:54

. So I'm like I thought he would have more

23:56

than that . What on Instagram ? Yeah , I thought

23:58

he would have like in the tens of thousands . So

24:00

I was like , all right , someone's trying to pull a joke on me . So

24:02

I just like respectfully said , sure you know

24:04

I'll come on . And then I got a

24:06

text from Matt Souza , who's the producer

24:09

of the Savan podcast , who comes on with him sometimes

24:11

. He's an affiliate owner in California

24:13

and they gave me two dates and

24:16

I gave him the one that worked for Ash and I the best

24:19

and the entire week I

24:21

still didn't know if this was real or not

24:23

, which is why I think you told no one .

24:25

I found out by seeing your Instagram

24:27

posts and I was like wait , I'm your podcast

24:29

host and I'm finding out on your Instagram

24:32

that you are going on another podcast , the Savan

24:34

podcast . Thank you .

24:37

I will tell you . I did not tell anyone . The

24:40

only person I had to mention it as

24:42

a possibility to was

24:44

Kayla , because

24:47

I might . If I couldn't do it Sunday

24:49

, I was gonna have to do it Tuesday and

24:51

I was gonna ask her to change my classes with me . So

24:54

we had to trade classes but nobody knew about it

24:56

until that time I put on a scrambles

24:59

. I honestly I was like 70%

25:01

sure that it was gonna happen and the other

25:03

30% I was like this has gotta be a joke . But then I saw

25:05

it on his YouTube the day before . He's

25:07

got preview of shows that are coming . I'm like all right , I guess this

25:09

is happening . It's really happening .

25:11

Yeah , he's pretty famous . I mean , he has 26.3,000

25:15

subscribers on YouTube and

25:17

, as of yesterday , the podcast , your podcast

25:20

had 3,300

25:22

views and , in

25:25

comparison , we have 183 subscribers

25:27

on YouTube and our

25:29

last episode that I saw , the Dark

25:32

Week episode , had 69 views

25:34

. It's early . It's early , we're gonna

25:36

get more . So you had

25:38

a very big platform and you

25:40

used it . You spoke for an hour

25:43

and 43 minutes . An

25:45

hour and 43 minutes . And last

25:48

time we talked you said , hey , our podcast should

25:50

last 20 minutes . And I'm like this

25:52

dude , what the you

25:55

talk about being a service mindset for your

25:57

members , and I was like , how about serving me and

25:59

my time by not taking up an hour and

26:01

43 minutes ? I could only take

26:03

about 20 to 30 minutes at a time . And

26:06

then and I've known you for 10 years , and

26:09

then I was like , okay , I gotta take a break before I listen to more

26:11

Dave's side of the time . And now

26:13

I will tell you , though , I thought it was great

26:15

in the sense that you were very authentic

26:17

. You're all you . You

26:20

unloaded more in an hour and 43

26:22

. Then I did not know half the

26:24

crap that you . He told him . It's

26:27

like I thought we were friends

26:29

and yet you go to some dude who , like

26:31

you've never met before and you're telling him , like

26:33

your deepest , darkest secret

26:36

, the avocado story . Yeah , well , no , I've heard that a

26:38

couple times . I was like the fourth time I've heard that

26:40

story but it's such a vivid memory

26:43

in my head . But anyway

26:45

, it was great

26:47

advice for affiliates in terms of approaching

26:50

your clients at your gym or members

26:52

approaching the CrossFit Open , and

26:55

I thought the take

26:57

home message for me was listen , you can focus

26:59

on revenue , financial strategies , profit

27:02

, expenses , which is helpful

27:04

as a business owner , but ultimately , as

27:06

a CrossFit gym owner , they

27:08

have to see that you care , that you are

27:10

in service to them . And

27:13

, of course , savan makes it all weird and he's

27:15

like , yeah , like waiters and baristas and like

27:17

the guy who pisses me off at Starbucks

27:20

, and I'm like , okay

27:23

, yeah , sort of . But

27:25

yeah , you pull out all the stories that

27:27

I've heard about the avocado

27:29

, the coaches , liz and Adam leaving to start their

27:32

own gym . Like you know , you got pissed

27:34

off at me that one time . I told them the

27:36

first time about that . You're like you

27:38

were not supposed to say that and

27:41

then it became a thing like , yeah

27:43

, because they would never do that anyway . But

27:46

you never know . Yeah , I would say . The other thing

27:48

which I think I hope they take and run

27:50

with it is the people

27:52

who are former elite athletes not

27:55

doing the open , like Matt Frazier you called them

27:57

out , I did , and I feel like

27:59

that is very important . I think that's important

28:01

for the masters Especially

28:04

, Especially . I think it's star driven

28:06

and I feel like these guys

28:08

and we talked about it off air , about

28:11

him being on , what was that guy ? Tennyson

28:13

the YouTuber , oh

28:15

, yeah , yeah , about how he really does

28:17

CrossFit at disservice , by the way

28:19

he sort of approaches his

28:22

media , his platform . Yeah , and

28:24

it really bothers me a lot . A

28:27

man who is the the Joe Rogan podcast Joe Rogan

28:29

podcast , my time fit , his man on earth built

28:32

his life and reputation on CrossFit and he's not

28:34

really like in my

28:36

mind , helping CrossFit and

28:38

it's not that he has an obligation , but I

28:41

think in gratitude , just gratitude

28:44

.

28:44

Yeah , and he's gotten a lot from CrossFit .

28:47

Yeah . So I would

28:49

say , if you listen to the Savon podcast , first of

28:51

all it is long , you may wanna

28:53

like watch it at 1.25

28:56

speed or 1.5 speed , but I will say and

28:59

don't watch the stuff after , come off

29:01

, cause it is some really weird ass

29:04

. I didn't . Oh , dude , don't

29:06

listen to it . Yeah , and I won't

29:08

even mention it . I was gonna mention it . And then Susan's

29:10

like no , don't say anything about it , but let's

29:12

read some of the comments that they said about you

29:14

. Let's do it and then you can go ahead .

29:16

I did not read these , by the way , so this is gonna be the first

29:18

I've heard of that .

29:19

All right . So Anthony Adams said

29:21

David is a righteous dude . Love hearing his

29:23

point of view on CrossFit , be open and owning an affiliate

29:25

. And , yes , bts was the reason

29:27

I started CrossFit . I don't know what BTS was

29:30

.

29:30

Behind the scenes . Okay , I

29:32

mentioned that to Savan , you

29:34

know , I think someone

29:37

said he's like you were like really nice to him . At the end

29:39

I'm like well , like that's just who I'm gonna be

29:41

in general , I'm not gonna be mean to someone , but I

29:43

did want him to know because I don't know if he gets

29:45

enough of this like , of this

29:47

like support , because I feel like sometimes I

29:49

feel like he's an ally of Dave Castro

29:51

but an enemy of CrossFit HQ . He

29:55

, his impact on the growth was

29:57

pretty big . I think Savan

29:59

was a huge part of CrossFit's growth

30:01

because of those behind the scenes

30:03

. Yeah , all the other stuff that he did with CrossFit Media , very

30:05

true .

30:06

I like Ken Walters , I like this dude . Time Stamp

30:09

134 to 137 shows

30:11

throughout the interview why this young man has

30:13

300 members and some junk gems

30:15

in here . Just order a beer . Oh , that was

30:17

when you're a bartender and you can't make up all the

30:19

fancy drinks , so you're like , just order a beer

30:21

and then they I take

30:23

my shopping cart back , which is when you

30:26

know Savon asks like how , how are you have service

30:28

outside the gym ? And you're sitting there like bring

30:30

I bring , like shopping cart back , like

30:33

Joel Trello was just

30:36

busting out that one

30:38

in class the other day and

30:40

Then also the other . Why we say , probably

30:42

doesn't do it , dude

30:45

, that guy would bring four shopping carts

30:47

back , not just one , all right . And

30:49

then the avocado store , where you're sitting in the In

30:52

the grocery store wondering if you had enough money to

30:54

buy the four avocados or whatever it was , yeah

30:56

, yeah . And then , jessica

30:59

Rivera , you replied to this one . Actually

31:01

, I've heard of this gym great reputation , never

31:03

tried it . Because I want to coach , to coach me , and I feel like

31:05

I remember that that was right away . Yeah , 30 athletes

31:07

per class . There's no way . Coach and give me the proper attention I

31:09

need . I want to be coached . Ps . This guy can

31:11

talk .

31:15

That is true . Yeah , I actually noticed

31:17

in the first half hour Because

31:20

I knew this was like a unique opportunity to

31:22

speak my mind and explain things , and

31:24

I do . I feel like the more we

31:26

do here , even on this podcast , I really want to

31:28

explain the why behind a lot like

31:31

I don't . I actually and I want to hear that

31:33

more of that from others Hmm , like when I get

31:35

, when we have guests on or when

31:37

I have conversations in the gym , or even when

31:39

I talk to some coaches , like I

31:41

want to know why behind you , know the way they are

31:43

, because I think that's where you learn , that

31:45

that's and that's where you can Really project a certain

31:47

way that you want to be . But

31:50

I did notice Matt Malone

31:52

Texting me bad , and he was like

31:54

oh , someone , the comments I didn't

31:57

read with alive comments . I think there was

31:59

a live comment section and someone said

32:01

man , this guy can talk and and now and

32:03

he's like well , two things . It's an effing podcast

32:05

. Of course the guy's gonna talk and

32:08

be like . That's how I've always been , that we talk about

32:10

that with my social media . Sometimes you just , you just

32:12

want to like , explain and make sure that there's

32:14

no Gray area

32:16

.

32:17

That's , that's the reason behind that to

32:19

I assume they're women , I'm not sure came

32:21

insider and Emma , we in said is that Woody

32:23

Harrelson ? He reminds me so much of

32:25

Woody Harrelson . And then someone

32:27

else said oh , you like his blue

32:29

eyes . And they're like yes , I do , I

32:32

like those blue eyes , you're

32:35

. You could become a little bit of a celeb

32:37

if you wanted to . You could just kind of lean into that

32:39

a little bit .

32:40

Julia . Julia Asked me who's Woody

32:42

Harrelson . I was like oh god .

32:44

So , yeah , depends on which phase

32:46

of Woody Harrelson you you want to look at . That's

32:49

true . I think they're talking about the cheers bartender

32:51

Woody Harrelson , not the Like

32:53

weird , the Twilight of his career . Yeah

32:55

, true , detective Woody Harrelson . Yeah , whatever

32:57

HQ

32:59

should waive his affiliate fee for a year . Good

33:02

dude , oh wow , I didn't see that . Yeah , done

33:04

, I don't know if he's part

33:06

of HQ . And then Jeremy

33:08

world David's about to convert

33:10

Seve . I guess you talked about faith and

33:13

I did talk about faith . He was a little intrigued

33:15

by that was .

33:16

Yeah , I think I actually enjoyed that

33:18

. The irony behind that

33:20

is I Actually

33:23

talked to my brothers about this . I feel like they're

33:25

the people to talk to about faith

33:27

and because I and I still struggle

33:29

with my consistency there , but it

33:31

is my foundation . Like I do , the older I

33:33

get the real and see the difference between

33:36

people . I think that foundation is always there and I

33:38

did like talking about that .

33:39

Hmm . And then , yeah , someone

33:41

said he's arguably doing as much good as

33:44

the church , maybe more , and I

33:46

don't know if that's true , but that was interesting

33:49

comment . And then Joe Pierro , obviously

33:51

with the water sploosh

33:53

emojis , daddy Dave , he

33:58

says thoughts about a second CrossFit bison

34:00

location .

34:01

Yeah , that's , it's always

34:03

, it's always in the back of our minds . We do talk about

34:05

it . So I

34:07

think , I think Joey wants to have

34:11

a gym where he can do his thing , you know , and

34:13

be , and it's , it's . It would be hard for him here , you

34:15

know we've talked about in the past . It's just we , just our

34:17

classes are too big and we can't provide him the open gym

34:19

stuff that he needs .

34:20

So yeah , he's a pretty elite athlete . He needs

34:22

space and you know , that was actually one of the reasons

34:24

why proven left he's

34:27

Nashville . Yeah , did you listen to that ? I

34:29

listened to what you told me . Yeah , it was really good . Yeah

34:31

, yeah , but yeah , elite

34:33

athletes need space . They need , they need

34:35

places to work out .

34:37

There was a comment I saw . I'm sure

34:39

you'll bring this up because when you're on the

34:41

on , the thing you could see

34:43

when he I guess he selects a comment , that

34:45

shows up , yeah , on the feed , yeah , and

34:47

one of them was I guess you'll never have a CrossFit Games

34:50

athlete from bison .

34:50

Yes , and so what'd you say ? What'd you

34:52

think about that ? I'm offended by that .

34:55

I am . But here's two

34:57

things I don't

35:00

think it's true , like because of the way

35:02

we run things . I don't think that's why

35:04

we won't have a games athlete to say

35:06

that we're I'm right or wrong about that

35:08

, because you don't have a games athlete yet

35:10

. It's so freaking hard to make the

35:13

games . I mean , there's such a few

35:15

amount of people that make it , but it

35:17

is . I think someone can get to the games

35:19

from this gym with our programming as the main programming

35:21

, with extra work , you do have to do more than a lot

35:24

of things , not masters . I'm talking individual

35:26

, yeah , not teams , yeah

35:28

, like so in open division , I was hoping you're gonna give me the

35:30

masters out .

35:32

I mean masters , we got people who are

35:34

People that physically

35:37

capable , with some people that can make semi-finals

35:39

physically , yeah , and then with a couple lucky

35:41

I mean they're opening up a little bit , you never know

35:43

but elite

35:45

individuals , it's

35:47

such , it's so specialized

35:50

now and professional .

35:52

Yes , like , let's take the athlete that we know

35:54

them the Closest to us

35:56

personally , that has a shot . I

35:58

guess you could say right is Joe Piero right ? Would

36:01

Joe go backwards if by some

36:03

of this program you know five days

36:05

a week and then he did an extra session

36:07

every day ? Yes , I don't know

36:09

if we did , if we did

36:11

the level system every

36:14

day , like we're doing it once or twice a week right

36:16

now . We did a podcast on that . If you want to go back

36:18

and look at , there's no more like that . We could get rid

36:20

of Rx and scaled and make level three Really

36:23

hard , like to the point where , like , joe

36:25

was the only one that could do it , you know , on

36:28

a day-to-day basis . But

36:31

I do think he would need a lot

36:33

of extra accessory

36:35

lifting tension

36:38

. But you To me

36:40

, I question now

36:43

, at this stage in Joe's competitive

36:45

career , the fact that he's by

36:47

himself a lot slash borderline

36:50

always , is it holding

36:52

him back ? From what I see

36:54

as a coach , where

36:57

are Joe's holes in his game ? He

36:59

doesn't have that next gear in workouts

37:01

. He's just he's very strong .

37:03

Well , I think you would be

37:05

bucking the trend in terms of what

37:07

most pro CrossFit athletes are

37:09

doing . This whole camp system has

37:11

taken over completely , and

37:14

so they have multiple coaches . You have

37:16

one dedicated coach , you have additional coaches

37:18

part of the camp . You are doing a lot of

37:20

your training on your own , but you're also getting

37:22

together as a group to

37:24

sort of push and to work on weaknesses

37:27

and so forth , and so you

37:29

might be right , but it is certainly

37:31

not what everyone else currently

37:33

in CrossFit is thinking .

37:35

I think the camps are . We're not sure

37:37

if they're working yet Because I feel like these

37:39

guys it's like fractured a lot , Like proven

37:41

loses . A lot of athletes hard work pays off has

37:43

lost the athletes Like mayhem

37:45

is , I feel like there's constant bodies in

37:47

and out there . I don't know if

37:49

that's going to be a long term thing . I

37:52

just don't know if there's enough money in it , you know

37:54

. And the future , sport is another

37:56

fascinating topic . I mean , CrossFit is starting to pull out

37:58

a little bit . So yeah

38:00

, I don't want to get too sidetracked on that , but you

38:03

know well we could talk about Savon podcast

38:05

for like another five , 10 minutes on the little wrap , yeah , so

38:08

final thoughts about the experience . I enjoyed it and

38:11

he actually said that he would like me to come

38:13

back on if we want at some

38:15

point , you know

38:17

, to talk about faith and then maybe we get back into

38:19

, you know , if there's ever like another

38:21

state of CrossFit type conversation . I

38:25

do like the platform , but

38:28

I also know there's people that listen to him because

38:30

they want to listen to his sense of humor and they

38:32

don't like CrossFit as much as they used to

38:34

. They are the old school crowd . But

38:36

I want to like one thing I want to

38:38

be a part of bison

38:41

, to be a part of as well if , for those that want

38:43

to , I do want to be part of the solution

38:46

of marrying old school

38:48

, new school CrossFit together . I

38:50

still think there's a fracture between the people

38:52

that were doing this from 2008 to 2015

38:55

, and things are to change . Regionals

38:57

left , the media team left , Greg Glassman

38:59

left , and now you have private equity

39:01

involved . You have all these chief

39:04

marketing officers and different

39:06

ways of doing things . Now that's

39:08

going to bring new people into your gyms

39:10

, people that are maybe not the same demographic

39:13

or same type of person that came in 10

39:15

years ago . I think there needs to be

39:17

a group of people in the middle

39:20

that are marrying them together , Just like I mean

39:22

, I think that's the way our world works right now is

39:25

, you know , like in politics

39:27

, we need to find someone that's like , that can

39:29

bring the right and left together . You know there's

39:31

, with a lot of these debatable issues

39:33

that we have , like I don't think the solution

39:35

is , you know , go all in on

39:38

one side . Like I think there needs to be someone

39:40

that's really good at brokering the two sides , and

39:42

if I can do that , or

39:45

if anyone from bison could do that on a bigger

39:47

platform like Savan's podcast , and just

39:49

say like we really are the same people

39:51

. You just don't really always realize it

39:53

because you don't always agree with each other , but

39:55

I think there's someone that needs to give

39:58

these people the notion that there's

40:00

a responsibility that you have

40:02

, that you can't just keep throwing your

40:04

ideas and your thoughts and your beliefs into

40:06

the , you know , into the conversation , and

40:08

not take any others in . That was the one

40:11

thing that I was glad I got out is that

40:13

we should all be trying to give

40:15

out more than we receive and we could talk

40:17

about that in debate is you can't

40:19

just like ? You should be listening more than talking and

40:22

then try to reflect and look at different perspectives

40:24

, because if you do that , I

40:26

do think that's where Crosset gets

40:29

to speak . So if you truly want Crosset

40:31

to get to speak , that's the solution

40:33

. How you get there can be debated .

40:35

Make sure you keep your baby blue eyes wide

40:38

open . You might have to just be like oh

40:40

, I just finished a workout and make sure

40:42

you don't have a shirt on and just stand

40:44

there . I think you'll get more viewers on the next episode . Sam , do you have

40:46

any ?

40:47

open appointments on plastic surgery . We're

40:49

getting rid of some trouble areas on my body .

40:51

Woody Harrelson does not need any

40:53

work , you

40:55

got it already , daddy Dave .

40:59

So , yeah , that's kind of like State of CrossFit

41:01

, state of Media , the Savon podcast , kind

41:03

of all wrapped up into one . But I do think that

41:05

to sum everything up and to tie it all

41:07

together , the State of CrossFit

41:09

will have a lot to do with media

41:11

personalities trying to

41:14

not be too selfish with their

41:16

work and trying to , if you truly

41:18

want the brand to grow like . I love that Savon's doing

41:20

the open and that he's going to put his scores out there

41:22

I'm glad you held him to it and he's putting

41:24

on hashtags and groups and he's getting people involved

41:27

and I do think he does an

41:29

affiliate series . If you guys go on and look

41:31

at his channel , he interviews different gym owners

41:33

, I think every week and he likes to

41:35

get different stories and different perspectives

41:37

out there . So I mean he is doing

41:39

a big part in that and

41:42

then , with CrossFit leadership

41:44

, get the freaking app going

41:46

. So I have to listen to Sam talk

41:48

about this anymore . But

41:52

there's going to be , I

41:54

think , some significant changes

41:56

with this whole private equity group in

41:58

the next two years , because I think they're

42:00

at the four-year mark now , which is crazy how

42:02

fast that's gone that

42:04

originally they own over 50% of CrossFit and

42:06

they said , usually five to seven years is when they will sell out

42:08

, looking for 20 to 25% profit . So

42:11

that's coming up and Greg Glassman's

42:14

not compete ends in August . That's also

42:16

coming up and there's some rumors swirling there about

42:19

potentially him starting

42:21

a new competitor at CrossFit . Dave

42:23

Cascio shot that down , but I

42:25

don't think Dave Cascio would tell us what he really

42:27

thought about that in general . So I'm

42:30

really interested to see what happens in the next two years . Media

42:32

plays a big part in it , bison plays a big part in it

42:34

and I'm really looking forward to it . Thanks

42:36

guys . Thank

42:39

you everybody for taking the time out of your day to

42:41

listen to the Herdfit podcast . Be

42:43

on the lookout for next week's episode .