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1:06

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Hosted by sis Chris Mannix.

2:10

That was my moments now with interviews, analysis

2:13

and everything going on in the world

2:15

of boxing. When you have talent, you

2:17

are given another chance. Here's

2:19

Chris Mannix. All

2:22

right. Keith Idec is here Boxing

2:25

Scene dot Com senior writer

2:27

columnists over there what's happening,

2:29

Keith, Hey Chris, what's going on?

2:31

Man? How you doing? A lot is going

2:33

on? And there's a bunch of topics I want to get into

2:36

with you today, But can we begin with

2:38

like shout out to Mary's

2:40

Breed us for leaning

2:43

all in on the Jake Paul

2:45

stuff. Like Mars Breed

2:47

is getting what is

2:49

either a tattoo. It's

2:52

got Jake on his leg. He's got the name Jake now

2:54

on his leg right now as he becomes

2:57

the latest boxer, this time an active

2:59

box ran up pretty damn good boxer,

3:01

Breeds arguably the top guy at

3:04

cruiserweight lobbying for a fight

3:06

against Jake Paul, which proves my point Keith,

3:09

Like, these guys can dump on Jake and

3:11

what he's doing. All they want but to quote

3:13

Canello, they want the pay day,

3:15

the pay day, the pay day. When it comes to Jake

3:17

Paul, I'm

3:20

not convinced it's a real tattoo either

3:23

way. You're still inking yourself in the leg

3:25

and you're calling out Jake Baul. You are the number

3:27

one cruise wait in the world. You're calling out Jake Paul.

3:30

There's a very big difference between a real tattoo

3:33

and a fake tattoo, And you can ask Pete Davidson,

3:35

who's now getting ninety seven tattoos roof

3:37

of his entire body, how different they are. But I

3:42

don't really understand what he's trying to accomplish.

3:45

I mean, he's gets some attention out

3:47

of it, and he's not really a fighter who's

3:49

gotten much attention despite being a world champion

3:51

and maybe the best cruiserweight boxing. Now, why

3:55

is a guy with five fights supposed to fight a world

3:57

champion? He's not, I

4:00

know it, but so so the point is it

4:03

almost it almost makes

4:05

him look goofy and thirsty for trying to

4:07

like he doesn't really think that Jake Paul is

4:09

going to fight him, right, I mean, and in Jake

4:11

Paul's defense, whatever anyone thinks of Jake Paul,

4:14

he has five fights, rights

4:16

at six now whatever it is. Yeah,

4:20

he's going into a six fight and to

4:22

even consider fighting Julio, says ar Chavez

4:24

Junior, who is a shell of

4:27

a shell of a shell of Julio, says ar

4:29

Chavez Junior. Um, that's

4:31

a pretty big step for him because he's

4:33

he is a real boxer. Whatever people

4:35

might think, you know, he's older now, of course, thirty six or

4:37

whatever age he is. And and unfortunately,

4:40

you know, flawed failure of a of a

4:42

fighter. But um, but he is a real boxer,

4:45

you know, so so if he fights him, he would

4:47

deserve some credit for doing that. He won't

4:49

get it because the cesspool

4:52

that is boxing, social

4:54

media and such, they won't give him any credit for anything.

4:56

But the problem is, like,

4:58

let me just say, the problem is with boxers

5:00

jumping on Jake Paul is that there

5:03

are receipts out there. Like I had this conversation with

5:05

Sergio Mora, like multiple times

5:07

right where I point out to Sergio that

5:09

his first ten opponents were terrible.

5:12

I heard Tony bellhu onto his own and I

5:14

love Tony was a take on all comers guy at

5:16

the end, but his fourth pro fight, his

5:18

opponent had ninety two losses. We got

5:20

to stop pretending like just because guys

5:23

like have boxing resumes

5:26

that they're real boxers too. Most of these guys

5:28

have full time jobs and train an equinox

5:31

or something along those lines. Yeah,

5:34

that that's true. And and I thought we were

5:36

gonna have to put you in, Sergio in a time out there. You were

5:38

going back and forth so much there about his

5:41

resume and yeah, I mean, geez,

5:44

I want to go meet I need to meet

5:46

Warren Cronberger and ask him see what he's

5:48

doing. Kronberger is

5:51

not a boxer's name. I can say that much. Um

5:53

Jesus, but um. But yeah,

5:55

I mean, look, it's

5:57

it's it's the guy who does

5:59

the taxes of the fighter, who brings

6:01

us person to him or whatever. But look,

6:05

I understand the hate directed at

6:07

Jake Paul from boxers who've been you

6:10

know, really working hard at their craft as amateur

6:12

fighters, coming up through the amateur system and then

6:15

you know, trying to make some semblance of a living

6:17

in a sport in which it's not very easy to

6:19

do that. So I get some of the jealousy

6:22

and the dislike directed toward

6:24

him. But it is what it is, and it's not going

6:26

away until someone beats him and beats him

6:28

badly. It's not going away because he has

6:31

a fan base, you

6:33

know, maybe not quite as big as people might

6:35

have thought at one time, but he has a fan base that are

6:37

willing to pack arenas and

6:39

willing to buy his pay per views. So

6:42

he's here to stay until someone beats him. And look,

6:44

I think also you have to give him credit

6:47

for taking boxing seriously much

6:50

more so maybe than his brother has, and

6:52

has really attempted to get better at it,

6:54

and he is improving. Tyrone Wordley

6:57

obviously not a boxer, thirty nine years

6:59

old and all that at the fight on the rematch on short

7:01

notice, but that was a picture perfect knockout

7:03

that he scored in December, and it

7:06

showed some signs of improvement from him. And

7:09

again, until someone beats him and beats him badly,

7:11

he's not going anywhere. And for World

7:13

Champions to be calling him out, I

7:16

understand it to some extent because he's trying

7:19

to get paid too, and he has a family

7:21

to support and everything. It just kind of, I don't

7:23

know, it just kind of looks goofy to me. I don't know, yess,

7:25

it's the best way to put it. Yeah, all right, Well, I don't want

7:27

to You want to hear about Jake Paul

7:29

go back and well listen to the previous

7:32

episode of his podcast when he was on, or watch any of

7:34

the episodes of Jabs Overrunt his

7:36

own We go at it pretty good on that subject,

7:39

Keith, I do want to talk about what was

7:42

revealed as a pretty dark story in

7:44

boxing this week when Terrence Crawford,

7:46

one of the best fighters in the world welterweight

7:49

champion, recently decided

7:51

to leave Top Rank after his

7:53

contract expired, filed

7:56

a lawsuit against Top Rank,

7:58

a six count, multi million

8:00

dollar complaint that alleges two

8:03

separate counts of breach of contract,

8:06

one count each of fraudulent misrepresentation,

8:09

negligent misrepresentation, tortious

8:12

breach of implied covet of good faith,

8:14

and accuses Top

8:17

Rank in this twenty three page

8:19

complaint of quote extensive alleg

8:21

extensive allegations of racial bias

8:24

against Terrence Crawford and quote disperament

8:27

treatment of black

8:29

boxers. There's a lot to unpack your Keith, But you

8:31

know, you and I have covered Top Rank for a long

8:34

time. We've covered Bob Aram

8:36

for a long time. What was your reaction

8:38

when you got wind of this lawsuit. I

8:42

was pretty surprised by the racial

8:44

element to it, not terribly

8:47

surprised that Terrence Crawford would file a lawsuit,

8:49

just because I think more than anything,

8:52

probably if you, if you had Terrence Crawford

8:54

in a quiet moment, Chris

8:56

Um I don't think that he believes

8:58

that he's going to get any damage is out of this lawsuit.

9:00

I think this was more a response

9:03

to Bob Aram saying some things about Terrence

9:05

Crawford last year and earlier this

9:07

year. A twenty

9:09

twenty one, the end of twenty twenty and

9:12

throughout twenty twenty one, he had said some disparaging

9:14

things about Terrence Crawford that frankly,

9:16

Bob Barram should not have said. I mean, he's he's

9:19

your fighter. You're working in conjunction

9:21

with each other theoretically anyway

9:24

to make him as big as star as possible. Terrence

9:27

Crawford thinks that Bob Barram did all those things

9:29

or said all those things because he thought or

9:31

he was convinced that Terrence Crawford was not going to

9:33

resign the top rank, which he's not. Bob.

9:37

You know, Look, you know, Bob's

9:39

a polarizing guy obviously, and

9:41

some of those things that he said about Terrence Crawford.

9:44

He didn't say anything racist about Terrence

9:46

Crawford. He said some things about

9:48

Terrence Crawford's marketability and the fact

9:50

that he's not a pay per view draw news

9:54

flash, he's not. Yeah, you

9:57

know I do think in

9:59

some ways Top Rank maybe

10:02

got some criticism that it

10:05

didn't solely deserve for the Porter fight,

10:07

for it only doing one hundred and thirty five two hundred

10:09

and forty thousand buys that I thought

10:11

was more ESPN's fault, and Top

10:13

Rank has to whether people realize

10:15

this or not, or want to accept it or not. Top

10:18

Rank has to listen to ESPN's directive

10:20

because they're paying the money. They're the reason

10:23

Top Rank has this ninety plus million dollars

10:25

to work with every year in the budget,

10:27

so they have to do what what ESPN

10:30

said. And ESPN wanted to

10:32

basically strong arm people into

10:36

subscribing to their bundles or ESPN

10:39

Plus, Disney packages and all that stuff. By

10:41

only allowing the Porter Crawford

10:43

fight to be available through

10:46

ESPN Plus, that certainly cost them

10:48

some buys. I'm not saying it was a five hundred thousand

10:50

buy pay per view fight, but it wasn't

10:52

one hundred and thirty five thousand buy fight either,

10:54

and they did some damage there that maybe was not

10:56

quite Top Ranks fault. I'm

10:58

not really sure what damages Terrence

11:01

Crawford is looking for Chris, because I'll

11:03

say this. He fought twice

11:05

during the pandemic. One

11:07

of those times I was there, and I

11:10

was at both, But the first time there

11:13

were maybe two hundred or three hundred people in the room

11:16

because they couldn't bring more people in there

11:18

than that for the due to the COVID

11:20

restrictions at MGM Grand Conference

11:22

Center. So he was paid four

11:24

million dollars to fight kell Brook in

11:26

front of less than three hundred people. I

11:29

don't know what more you're expecting than that. First

11:31

of all, by the way, you're fighting kell

11:33

Brook a shell of Kell Brooke for starters

11:37

number two. You're being paid four million

11:39

dollars ish to

11:42

do that. I don't know what

11:44

you could really And then he was paid six million dollars

11:46

six million dollars guarantee roughly to fight

11:48

Sean Porter. So combine the

11:50

two fights that he engaged in

11:53

during the pandemic, his guarantees

11:55

were combined roughly ten million

11:57

dollars. If that's being wronged

12:00

by your employer, boy, I'd

12:02

really like ViacomCBS to start

12:04

wronging me, and the Zone and Sports Illustrated

12:07

to start wronging you. It's like, for

12:09

context, like they're a handful

12:12

maybe less maybe one or two fighters

12:15

that do massive pay per view

12:17

numbers. Really right now, it's Canello, who

12:19

you know, can command a

12:22

thirty five plus million dollar guarantee

12:25

on his contract. Other than that, like

12:27

making four million and six million

12:30

as a guarantee on a pay per view is a

12:32

big number. There are not a lot of fighters

12:34

out there that are getting that

12:37

type of guarantee. But I guess

12:40

if you want to, if they want to play some antics and say I

12:42

was promised X, I wasn't delivered, you

12:44

know that is a breach of contract. I don't know enough about

12:46

that. I'm not out of the inner workings. But

12:48

when you accuse someone of

12:51

racial bias, to me,

12:53

you better have a smoking gun, like you

12:55

better have an email

12:57

or a voicemail or ten. I

12:59

don't know something, because that's a pretty

13:02

heavy charge to make Keith, especially

13:05

against somebody. I mean, Bob's

13:07

been in the business for like fifty years. I'm

13:10

not I don't know everything about

13:13

Bob Aram but as someone

13:15

that has written multiple profiles

13:17

on him for SI who Off

13:20

and on have kind of flirted with doing a book with

13:22

him in the past. So I've had a lot

13:24

of conversations with Bob Aram

13:27

and talking to people a lot of people

13:29

that have known Bob Aarum over the years, all

13:33

walks of life, people that he's dealt with

13:35

over in South Africa when he was doing fights over

13:37

there. Don King have had long conversations

13:40

with Don King about Bob Baram. Al

13:42

Sharpton had many conversations with Al

13:44

Sharpton about Bob Barram. These

13:47

people had negative things to say about

13:49

Arab. Don't get me wrong. They weren't like, boy,

13:51

he's awesome, But racism

13:54

never once, never wance did that come

13:56

up. So that threw me, Keith, because

14:00

you know, and you've covered him a long time now as well.

14:03

I guess anything's possible, but if

14:05

you're gonna make that kind of accusation, you

14:07

better have the evidence to

14:09

back it up. And based on reading that complaint,

14:12

they're not really specifying anything except

14:14

for one you know in

14:18

Bigie was kind of quote where he's talking about how

14:21

I'm paraphrasing here, but like you know, PBC

14:23

will say, don't listen to the white guy or something like that.

14:25

So I don't that to me

14:27

is not evidence of racial bias.

14:29

Like I just don't see it with Bob Barum. Chris

14:33

I think maybe the most telling thing that you said there,

14:35

and it's something that I had thought about said yesterday as

14:38

well, you know, having covered boxing for as long

14:40

as I have, and of course as long as you have as well. You

14:43

know, Don King and Bob Aram

14:45

would have killed each other had they been

14:48

able to get away with it once upon a time. And

14:50

Don King has said a lot of negative things about

14:52

Bob Aram, and you know, some of

14:54

it has had racial overtones and such,

14:57

but I've never really heard him say that

14:59

Bob him as a racist. And if Don King

15:01

is not going to say that Bob Aram is a racist, you'd

15:04

probably be pretty hard pressed to find other

15:06

people who would, because they were really at

15:08

each other's throats for decades and maybe since

15:10

patched it up, and they're both ninety years old and they're

15:13

mellower versions of themselves and such.

15:15

But you know, it's

15:17

a really dangerous game to play in the sense

15:19

that you know, Bob obviously

15:21

says things that he should not say, and

15:24

you know, people who work within top rank,

15:26

who care about the company and care about

15:28

his well being and all that they try

15:31

to rein him in and get him not to say some of

15:33

these things. But it's just not going to He has no

15:35

filter. He's ninety years old, and I'm not

15:37

excusing any of the things that he

15:39

said because I understand you're

15:41

still accountable and you're a very prominent

15:44

person in this sport and you can't just say

15:46

some of the things that he has said. I wish he

15:48

didn't say a lot of the things that he said about Terrence

15:50

Crawford because I thought some of those things are

15:53

most of those things were unnecessary and

15:55

it just didn't help their relationship

15:57

at all. So I do

15:59

think that maybe

16:02

more than anything, is kind of trying

16:05

to get back at Bob for some of the

16:07

things that he said. Because Crawford held

16:09

his tongue for a very long time. He didn't say anything

16:11

negative about Bob. He just kind of I'm

16:14

paraphrasing, but I remember him saying something

16:16

like, well, that's just Bob being Bob. But

16:18

it had to be hurtful to a guy

16:20

who thought maybe he was closer to Bob

16:22

than maybe it turned out to be or whatever.

16:25

I'm not saying Bob didn't care about him once upon a

16:27

time at all, but but it was it had to be

16:29

hurtful for Crawford, a guy with a lot of pride,

16:32

who I have repeatedly said, despite

16:34

sometimes him being difficult to deal with, I

16:37

have repeatedly said on this podcast in other

16:39

places. You know, you could

16:41

make a strong argument still today

16:43

that he's the best pound for pound fighter in the world. Now

16:45

I get the resume talk, I get all that, but

16:48

I mean he's an elite, elite level fighter.

16:52

I personally think that if he fought Errol

16:54

Spence that Ternce Crawford would win, but we'd

16:56

all love to see it. I think maybe that's

16:58

the most valid

17:01

claim that he's making in this complaint

17:04

here, that you know, maybe they made some promises

17:06

related to the Spence fight that they knew that they couldn't

17:08

deliver on. But that's kind of on them

17:11

too. They're not naive. I mean, Terrence Crawford

17:13

is a shrewd dude. Man, He's no dummy. So

17:16

he did he really think that because Bob

17:18

Aarram said they're going to make the Spence

17:20

fight next, that it was definitely

17:22

going to happen. I mean, he knows all the obstacles

17:24

that existed between him and

17:26

Errol Spence that would have prevented

17:28

that fight from happening. That is still

17:31

preventing that fight from happening today, And

17:33

primarily what I've tried to tell people, Chris, I

17:35

know you've spoken about this as well. The thing

17:37

that people need to understand is

17:39

that both Terence Crawford

17:42

and Errol Spence Junior think that their

17:44

fight is worth more in terms of

17:46

guarantees than anyone who

17:48

controls the money. So until

17:51

that changes, the fight will not happen.

17:53

Now you can there are certainly arguments

17:55

to be made that maybe Crawford wants it more than Aryl

17:57

Spence does, based on some of the things that Roll

18:00

Spence has said. You could certainly lean

18:02

that way. But the point

18:04

is is that the fight will not happen until they're realistic

18:07

with their financial demands. And now I've seen some other

18:09

things like, oh well, this is kind of like the pacyaw

18:11

stop it. It's not. Floyd

18:15

Mayweather and Manny Pakiao was the perfect

18:17

storm of our lifetimes and it will

18:19

not be replicated. So just stop

18:22

saying anyone who thinks it's gonna be anything

18:25

close to that. It won't. Because those guys

18:27

walked away from that fight with

18:29

more than three hundred million

18:31

dollars combined. It's a crazy

18:34

number. Three hundred million dollars combined.

18:36

Manny Pacyow, who was the

18:38

B side, I guess you'd have to say, right, I mean, he walked away

18:41

from it with almost one hundred and thirty million

18:43

dollars. Now, people don't

18:45

want to pay. When I say people, I mean Bob

18:47

Aram and Al Hayman Primarily they

18:49

don't think it's worth paying Terrence

18:51

Crawford and Eryl Spence a combined

18:54

twenty five million dollars in guarantees,

18:57

So those two things are not comparable. And

19:00

again, until they know lessen

19:02

their demands or have some other proof

19:04

from a pay per view perspective that the fight

19:06

is worth more than Al Hayman and Bob

19:09

Aram are convinced that it's worth, it's

19:11

not going to happen. And it's unfortunate for boxing

19:13

fans because they deserve that fight. It's the

19:15

fight that people have wanted to see for the last couple

19:17

of years, and we're nowhere closer to it

19:19

happening than we were two or three years ago.

19:21

Despite Terrence Crawford not being with

19:24

Top Rank, and Crawford made the decision

19:26

in September of twenty eighteen to resign

19:29

with Top Rank and Errol Spence was

19:31

out there on the PBC side at

19:33

that point. Other fighters that were on

19:35

the PBC side, the Keith Thurman's of

19:37

the world, were out there. I mean, Terrence Crawford

19:40

is a smart guy, like he had to know when

19:42

he signed that deal that it wasn't going to

19:44

be easy to get the fights that he

19:46

was looking for. He signed that deal presumably

19:49

because there's a really good deal for him, because his guarantees

19:51

were pretty high and he was going to

19:53

get an opportunity to make more guaranteed

19:55

money there than anywhere else. So we'll

19:58

see how this lawsuit plays out. Said

20:01

yeah, sure, And I just said one other thing, and

20:04

going over the going through the lawsuit,

20:06

I saw some perplexing things

20:09

in this complaint, like it

20:11

was written by someone who has virtually

20:13

no idea what they're talking about. Now, this is not Terrence

20:16

Crawford writing this complaint. I understand

20:18

that that's why he's paying a lot of

20:20

money for a legal team to do it. But

20:22

there were references to Todd the Buff saying

20:25

that Todd the Buff just sits around smiling,

20:27

waiting for Bob to turn over the business. Anyone

20:29

who knows anything about top rank knows

20:31

that Todd the buff is running the business. You know,

20:34

Todd and Brad Jacobs

20:36

and Calm Already and you know, obviously

20:38

Brad Goodman and Bruce Trampler from a matchmaking

20:40

perspective, they're the ones running the company.

20:42

Bob is the face of the company, and he's the

20:44

guy that gets quoted and all that because Todd's

20:47

not really all that comfortable with that, and he, you

20:49

know, they allow Bob to not allow, i mean, to his

20:51

company, but Bob is still the face

20:53

of the company, and sometimes that's to their

20:55

detriment, which is why we're in this situation

20:57

because he has said some things that he unfortunately should

21:00

out of set. But that doesn't make him a racist

21:02

because again, like you said, Chris, you know,

21:04

I talked to a lot of people in this business. You know,

21:06

that's that's my job. I'm constantly

21:08

talking to people just like you are. And people

21:10

say a lot of things about Bob, and they call him

21:12

a lot of names, and some of them start

21:14

with an R. But I've never heard racist.

21:17

I haven't heard it, and I've personally

21:19

seen no evidence of him being

21:22

biased against black fighters. He's always

21:24

been an advocate for black fighters. The

21:26

one instance that's fairly obvious to

21:28

everyone and was a major theme you

21:30

know over the last decade and a half, is he mishandled

21:33

Floyd Babywell, he did. He underestimated

21:35

Floyd Mayweather's value, maybe

21:38

more than humanly imaginable, because

21:40

look what Floyd Mayweather became. Floyd Mayweather

21:42

made almost a billion dollars as a boxer. So Floyd

21:44

Mayweather, Leonard ellerby Al Hayman

21:47

were completely correct about what Floyd Mayweather

21:49

could become. And Bob Barram was wrong about

21:52

that. And to his credit, Bob Aarram has repeatedly

21:54

said I was wrong about that. I didn't know

21:56

how to market him to the black audience.

21:58

He said it repeated He made a huge

22:01

mistake. It was. It was a problem and a mistake,

22:03

and Mayweather's well within his right to complain

22:05

about that. But I mean, I just

22:09

don't you know a guy who was an advocate for Muhammad

22:11

Ali and promoted all

22:13

these legendary black fighters, George Foreman,

22:15

who came out in Bob's defense yesterday, you

22:18

know, Marvin Hagler like legendary

22:20

fighters, Tommy Hearns, right, all these guys that

22:22

I've never heard one of them say that he's a racist.

22:24

So I haven't either,

22:27

So I certainly hope you get a level an

22:29

accusation like that you have something to back it up.

22:31

Otherwise it's a bad look for Terrence Croffort.

22:33

We'll see

22:36

one other thing. You better have more proof

22:38

than something that. I don't want

22:40

to disparage the dead, but you better have more

22:42

proof than something that that. The late

22:45

Bob Lee, who

22:47

could not have been a more besmirched person

22:49

in boxing. He served time in federal prison

22:51

for taking bribes the former president of the IBF.

22:53

He's one of the examples they're using in this complaint.

22:56

Dillian White is another one. I mean,

22:59

who you better get some more credible examples

23:02

than that. Yeah, I agree with you there. All right,

23:04

let's talk about Canelo Alvarez and what's

23:07

next for him. Our

23:09

friend Mike Coppinger went on TV an ESPN

23:11

suggesting that there have been talks

23:13

going on for Canelo against

23:16

Jamal. Charlos Eddie Renoso took to

23:18

social media after that, the manager and trainer

23:20

of Canello, and he basically said, there have

23:22

been no talks as if yet. We're going to get to something

23:25

in the next few days. Charlo

23:27

has no opponent Canelo. We've heard

23:29

the cruiserweight talk Keith, you

23:31

know one sixty eight, it's got Charlo and David Benavidez.

23:34

You've heard Eddie Renosso they'll say in the past that

23:37

they like an idea, the idea of a fight against

23:39

Jamal Charlo. Do you think we're trending in

23:41

that direction? I

23:44

don't. I don't think there's an option bid, to be honest

23:46

with you, Chris, I've been saying for a few weeks. I was on the

23:48

Showtime Boxing podcast a few weeks

23:50

ago, and we're breaking it down, and I just don't

23:52

see any other way it goes than him fighting Charlo,

23:55

because primarily, no

23:57

one in their right mind is going to pay Canelo

24:00

Alvarez anywhere close to the amount

24:02

of money he's going to want to climb into the

24:04

ring in the beginning of May to fight the winner

24:06

of this cruiserweight fight on January twenty ninth.

24:08

No one's paying for that, Not Eddie

24:10

hearn and Zone, not Al

24:13

Haim in Showtime PBC. No

24:15

one's paying for it. So that's not And also

24:18

who's willingly getting into business with Don King

24:20

at this point? You

24:22

might as will just drive yourself crazy, and there's no point

24:24

to it, and no one cares about the fight, because

24:26

the biggest thing about this is this was Eddie Rainoso's

24:29

idea, not Canelos. And Canello came

24:31

out and said that a few weeks ago that he didn't

24:33

even know that Eddie Reinoso was going to propose

24:36

this at the WBC convention. I thought it was sort

24:38

of telling that Cannelo made a point of saying that as

24:40

if to say, yeah, it would be

24:42

nice to be a five division world champion, but

24:45

it ain't the only thing for me. Basically, so for

24:48

him to be paid the amount of money that he's going

24:50

to want to be paid, which is going to be more than

24:52

his guarantee for the Cable Plant fight, he's

24:55

going to have to fight Jamal Charlow

24:57

because that's the most commercially

25:00

noble fight in which he can make that kind

25:02

of money. People have wanted to see that fight

25:04

for quite some time. Charlo wants to fight.

25:06

He's obviously more than willing to move

25:09

up to one hundred and sixty eight pounds to make it happen.

25:11

I'm interested in the Dmitri Bivall fight,

25:14

but I'm less interested in that than I am in

25:16

the Charlo or Benavides fight. He

25:18

clearly favors fighting Charlo next over Benavides.

25:20

He has said it openly in public, and

25:23

I don't know that if you're the Zone

25:26

and Eddie, you

25:28

know you're dangling moving

25:31

back up to light heavyweight to fight Bivall

25:33

as the fight to come back to the Zone, which is a real fight.

25:35

It's a good fight, it's an interesting fight. Bivall

25:37

is not a huge light heavyweight, not as

25:40

nearly as big of a puncher as Artur Betterbiev,

25:42

so the fight would make sense for Canello. I

25:44

just don't know that the way his zone

25:46

is going about its business now, and they're stoth spending a

25:48

lot of money, but they're not spending the way that they once

25:51

didn't. Could you justify trying

25:53

to I mean, you're going to pay him thirty five

25:55

to forty million dollars to

25:57

compete with what he would make for fighting Charlo, to

26:00

just for a temporary

26:02

public relations win, because he's not going

26:04

to sign a multi fight deal with anyone anymore. He's

26:06

just going to go from fight to fight because

26:08

he has the leverage to do that, and

26:10

he's gonna he's and I don't blame him. He's

26:12

gonna get every penny out of it that he can.

26:15

He's the biggest star in a sport. He should. Yeah,

26:19

So I think we're trending

26:21

towards Charlo two. I

26:23

think one one thing I've heard

26:25

from talking to people around all

26:27

this is that it

26:30

will be interesting to see if

26:32

Al Hayman PBC is

26:35

willing to do another one fight

26:37

deal with Canello, because that would mean

26:40

that they've essentially served up two

26:43

of their best fighters

26:46

at that weight class for

26:48

one fight type of deals. Everybody

26:51

wants to make a long term commitment

26:54

with Canello. Cannell just doesn't

26:56

want to do it, and so I guess I'll be interested to

26:58

see if PB he's

27:00

willing to put up the I'm just forty

27:03

forty five million total, fifty million

27:05

total, whatever it may be to get

27:07

a Canello Charlo fight made

27:11

for a one fight deal with no guarantee of what Canelo

27:14

is going to do in September. Because Keith,

27:17

if he fights Charlo in

27:20

in May, I don't He's

27:22

not going to fight Benavitez in September. Like that's

27:24

not going to happen. So it seems

27:27

more likely than not that he

27:29

goes to Charlo, takes that fight, collects

27:31

a big check, probably wins by knockout,

27:34

and then moves on to

27:37

the other option we're talking about. We're talking about Bevole being

27:39

on the list maybe at that point, we're talking about Golofkin

27:41

if they can ever get this Golofkin Morada fight

27:44

over the finish line. So that's

27:46

kind of what the kind of the intel I've been hearing lately,

27:48

Like, will will Al put

27:50

up the money for Canello Charlo knowing

27:53

unless he gets a commitment for one

27:55

more fight from Canelo. I

27:59

mean, that's obviously, uh

28:01

an important question to answer, Chris, But

28:04

I don't think Al will have much choice but to do that,

28:06

because I think he's gonna want to be involved in a big event.

28:08

And also what is he doing with Jamal Charlo

28:10

at this point, he's not down

28:16

this rabbit hole again, but he's

28:19

not fighting andreid Um, he's

28:21

not fighting Triple G for I don't

28:23

know that triples G is necessarily

28:25

interested in that either. Um.

28:28

So, so who's Charlo going to

28:30

fight? He's going to be thirty two years old and may

28:32

he's undefeated. Um he had a

28:34

bit of a I wouldn't say a rough time. It

28:37

was a more difficult fight than I think people thought

28:39

in his last fight against montiel Um.

28:41

But you know, I don't know. I'm not saying

28:43

he's taking training any less seriously or anything

28:45

that because there's no evidence that he's doing that. But maybe he's getting

28:48

a little bored. He wants a huge fight. He wants

28:50

to fight Canello, he wants to prove himself against

28:52

the you know, the pound for pound best fighter in the sport.

28:55

So if that opportunity is there

28:57

now, and there's literally no reason that it can't

29:00

happen except that you want another fight, another

29:04

one or two fights. In terms of a commitment from

29:06

Canelo, I think I

29:08

think Hayman will will do it. I mean he won't

29:10

like it, maybe necessarily because of course you want

29:12

to be in business with Canelo for as long as possible,

29:15

but also you might be looking at it. I mean,

29:17

you know, maybe they think I would

29:19

favor Canelo over Charlos. It's not

29:21

a gimme and there's no layup um,

29:24

but you would have to favor Canelo to win the fight. But

29:27

maybe from PBC's perspective, they

29:29

think that Charlo has a better chance of winning

29:32

the fight than a lot of other people. So maybe they're you

29:34

know, maybe that's their chance to turn Charlo

29:36

into a much bigger star than he

29:39

is at the moment by knocking off Canelo,

29:41

you know, and then and I'm sure there's gonna be a rematch clause

29:43

in there and everything, and then they might have to fight twice,

29:46

you know, so that then you have two huge events.

29:49

I'm resisting the urge to

29:51

rebut the Charlo wants to prove himself

29:54

statement because he could have done

29:56

that over the last couple of years. Oh

29:58

God, Jesus just saying this.

30:01

Didn't Andreid even tell you to stop talking about

30:03

this? He chastised by Andreid

30:05

himself that when I heard that, I

30:07

was like, man, he can't catch a break. That guy himself

30:10

has heard enough of this shit already. I mean, come on. It

30:12

was like a YouTube video circulating of Andreid going

30:14

at me at our fighter meeting, and

30:16

like, look, Demetrius Nose,

30:19

I'm his stop most staunch

30:21

advocate out there. He just wants me to

30:23

lay off the Charlot stuff because he's he's Mungi and

30:25

Golopkin being more makea what he might be right, I

30:27

just I just care more about

30:29

two defeated chris and middleweight's fighting each

30:32

other. I'm with you, and I

30:34

would like to see the fight also. But

30:36

one thing I've been told over the last couple of

30:38

years is that the Zone people have been told

30:40

unequivocally that Gnadi Golovkin

30:43

is not fighting Demetrius and yet as

30:45

honest, so don't ask. Yeah,

30:47

So that's not even really an option. And that's

30:49

got to be really frustrating for Andreid obviously

30:52

because he's with this streaming service, he's

30:54

undefeated, he has a middleweight title, and

30:56

these people and that are affiliated with the same

30:58

network and Eddie

31:00

Harns on technically Golofkin's promoter, but they're

31:02

Philly, you know, whatever we're doing together. Um,

31:05

and he still can't get the fight. So I understand

31:10

this point after his comments after

31:12

the Liam Williams fight where he kind of went

31:14

after Golofkin there a little bit for not

31:17

for waiting until the trying and tyson

31:19

them to get to take the fight. My issue

31:21

now like where where I'm coming around

31:24

on the Andrei's side on this, not to make this about

31:26

him, but uh, like Mungia is gonna

31:28

fight Demetri's ballad. Like, look,

31:30

I was okay with Mungia taking a few

31:33

fights at one hundred

31:35

and sixty pounds to kind of get used to the weight.

31:37

I was okay with Gabe Risotto. That's a pretty decent

31:39

test for him. But he you know, I

31:41

didn't dominate gay but one pretty convincingly

31:44

against Rosatto. And you know, Andrew's

31:46

is out there, like he's sitting out there, you know, willing

31:49

to put his middle weight title on the line, and we're going to Demetria's

31:51

ballot, who fought on the undercard of Mungie

31:53

and didn't look good. I had to go to distance with Paul Balenzuela,

31:56

Like I don't I don't know what Mungia gets

31:58

us. And I've said this to Golden Boy, said, you

32:00

know, Eric Gomo was on this podcast a few weeks ago. I'm

32:02

like, yeah, it's not like I think like

32:05

Andreid might lose that fight. Like Munghee

32:07

is pretty good, Like he's gotten a lot better over

32:09

the years with his volume punching. I

32:11

think his chin's pretty solid. Like, you gotta keep pace

32:14

with him, Mungie to beat him. I

32:16

would have preferred them go straight to Mungi Andreid,

32:18

but they're gonna wait for Golofkin too. It's like everybody's waiting

32:20

for somebody, Keith. It's like we can't get two

32:22

people that actually want to fight each other. They're all waiting for

32:25

something else and me And

32:27

meanwhile, you're paying for fights that people don't necessarily

32:29

want to see. Yeah, it's a greater

32:32

problem. We welcome to boxing the

32:35

boxing again, all right. As

32:38

we're recording this, Philip Argovich seems like

32:40

he has an opponent in that IBF

32:42

eliminator. He and Tony Yoka are engaged

32:45

in negotiations. So I'll frame the question keep to

32:47

you a little bit differently. Over the last like

32:50

six months, we have had Michael Hunter turned

32:52

down a chance to fight Philip Perkovic. Kerkovich

32:55

in our Fighter Meeting a couple of weeks back, called Hunter

32:57

a coward for that. He was pretty strong on that one. Recently,

33:00

it's been Luis Ortiz who quickly declined

33:03

to enter negotiations. There it was

33:05

Joseph Parker decline. Now, there are

33:07

plenty of reasons why these guys won't

33:10

fight Hergovich, especially the last two,

33:12

because Ortiz and Parker could

33:14

probably get something more economically viable

33:17

in the next six months before than

33:20

Hergevich is. But does it surprise you that

33:22

we're kind of going down the list and an IBF

33:24

title eliminator and we stop at Tony

33:26

Yoka, who has done nothing

33:28

to warrant a eliminator opportunity.

33:32

It doesn't only because Philip Hergovic

33:35

is a high risk, low reward

33:37

type of proposition, right, I mean,

33:40

why would Luis Ortiz is not going to fight

33:42

Philip Herger It makes no sense, right, I mean, yeah,

33:44

he can get closer to a title shot, but he

33:46

was knocked down twice by Charles Martin. Obviously

33:48

came back to land a big shot and win the fight. But

33:51

you know he's showing signs of whatever

33:53

HB actually is. He's not going to fight Hergovic.

33:56

And I don't blame Joseph Parker either. Joseph Parker

33:58

has been in a lot of tough fights, wants to get back

34:00

into position a fight for a title, and

34:02

now he's gonna have to go through this guy now too. I don't blame

34:05

him. I wouldn't do it either. And there

34:07

is some history and now they have I think eleven

34:10

and fourteen fights respectively, Hergervik

34:13

and Yoka, so there's

34:16

history between then they fought three times and the amateurs.

34:19

Yoka beat him in that you were you were a ringside

34:21

for the semifinals of the of

34:24

the Heavy super Heavyweight Tournament

34:26

in twenty sixteen and Rio, So

34:28

there's a lot of history there and it's an interesting fight.

34:30

And I give Tony Yoka a lot of credit because I've

34:33

seen much more from Herdervic as a pro than

34:35

I've seen from Tony Yokas. So he would seem to

34:37

me to be more prepared for the fight than

34:39

Yokas. So it speaks to Yoka's confidence that he's

34:42

willing to take this type of fight and what would I believe

34:44

be his twelfth fight, so you

34:47

know there's some intrigue there. You would rather see

34:49

that type of fight happen a little further down the line,

34:52

but pudos to both guys for being willing to do it.

34:54

Now, they have to come to an agreement here. I mean he's

34:57

always agreed to today so far is

35:00

to enter negotiations. So they have to get

35:02

the steel done and everything. But if the money is

35:04

there, you know, there's no reason why they can't fight

35:07

and it's an interesting fight between two very good,

35:09

undefeated young and heavyweights, and you

35:11

know, Joseph Parker can go fight someone else to

35:14

try to inch close or toward a title shot, and

35:17

same for Luis Ortiz. And one thing

35:19

to remember to in in

35:22

the grand scheme of eliminators

35:24

like the IBF, you know the winner of this fight is not

35:26

going to get a title shot this year.

35:29

I would imagine like the IBF is I

35:31

believe, way down in the queue for mandatories,

35:34

and you're probably going to see a unification fight

35:36

between Fury and the winner of Joshua

35:39

and Usik before the end of the year.

35:41

So it's not like you take this opportunity

35:43

in BAM heavyweight title shot coming this summer.

35:46

You're gonna have to wait your turn for a while and probably

35:48

have to take another fight or maybe two fights

35:50

in between. If you're Parker who is shown he can

35:53

make some money or tis you're trying

35:55

to cash out, maybe against the Andy Ruise type or

35:57

something. There's there's plenty more financially

36:00

viable options there for you. But look,

36:02

I think it's a good fight Hergovich against

36:04

Yoka. I probably would have preferred Hergovich

36:07

against someone like Jean Jolais like, because

36:09

maybe you could have made it more, maybe

36:12

it's more of a US fight. Then maybe

36:14

it's maybe you can do it even in China,

36:16

I don't know, like in that area, Macau, something

36:19

like that. I mean, that's kind of a big event to

36:21

know. Eddie hern is kind of eyeballed, you

36:23

know, big fights with young over

36:25

in China at some point. Usually they involve Anthony Joshua

36:28

those talks. But yeah, I'd be curious

36:30

see what kind of fan base he has over

36:32

there in a big professional fight. But

36:34

uh, and and John Lai

36:36

is an older fight, Chris. I mean, he's looking for this type

36:39

of opportunity. He's he's been stuck

36:41

in you know, during the pandemic, he got stuck in

36:43

China a couple of times, and he trains actually

36:45

here in New Jersey, only a few towns away

36:47

from where I live. I'm very familiar with him in his story

36:49

and everything. He can fight. I mean, he

36:52

just he's just looking for the right you know, dance

36:55

partner, so to speak. And it would have been nice to see

36:57

him get that opportunity. But it looks like Eddie's gonna

37:00

him an opportunity else go

37:02

for a slice or two in Jersey

37:05

every so often. He lives a

37:07

couple of towns away from me, right, and and

37:09

it's not it's not a town where

37:11

there are a lot of Chinese people. There are a lot of Italian

37:14

people. It's you know, it's that. And he's

37:17

six foot six. Yeah, and like I've

37:19

asked him, I said, well, you know, you're a huge

37:21

dude, like what like And a lot of people

37:23

think he's a basketball player because he's so tall

37:25

and everything, so you know, but he gets a lot

37:27

of Yeah, and he lives with Meng Fan

37:30

Loong, who's his former Olympic teammate

37:32

and everything, and they're trained by the same guy, Sewan George

37:34

and everything. So yep, No, to

37:36

answer your question, no, we don't go out for whatever

37:38

you whatever you were

37:42

summary. But we're both watching

37:44

our carbs obviously, So all

37:48

right, let me finished with this key. Joe Smith fights

37:50

UH this weekend. Uh initially

37:53

supposed to face Calum Johnson, which I was really

37:55

interested in because you have two kind of heavy

37:57

hitters going at it in a

37:59

fight they probably would have ended by knockout. Jonathan

38:02

had to bow out because of COVID. You've

38:04

got Steve Giffard stepping in Guffard's

38:06

one eighteen fights in a row, but very low level

38:09

type of opponents, so not

38:12

huge expect tase for Giffart coming into this fight.

38:14

What I'm curious about Keith is less

38:16

this fight than what's kind of next

38:19

for Joe Smith, because there're gonna

38:21

be a lot of interested parties out there in

38:23

Joe Smith. If your top rank, maybe you want

38:25

to try to make that Joe Smith better be a

38:27

fight which would be for three belts in one hundred

38:29

and seventy five pound division, if you're Canelo. Joe

38:32

Smith gets through this fight, does he enter those

38:35

sweepstakes? Like I don't. I doubt it, but

38:37

you know, he's got a light heavyweight belt, He's an American,

38:39

could probably market that fight pretty decently, especially

38:42

if you're willing to do the fight in New York. You

38:45

know, Daniel Jacobs is back out there,

38:48

He's fighting in February. That's

38:50

someone that's a fight that's been talked about between those

38:52

two guys over the last few

38:54

weeks or so. So, assuming Joe Smith

38:56

gets through this fight relatively unscathed,

38:59

what are you see as the future for him in the

39:01

light heavyweight division? Look,

39:04

the obvious fight to make Chris and the fight that

39:06

people have wanted to see is Joe

39:08

Smith against Arthur Betterbev. He's

39:10

a you know, the biggest knockout puncher in

39:12

boxing, among world champions. It's knocked

39:14

out every pro opponent. He's seventeen and oh with seventeen

39:17

knockouts. That fight should be

39:19

able to be made because they're both co promoted

39:21

by top rank. The

39:24

way from what the way it was explained to me,

39:26

Joe Smith was not happy with the financial offer

39:28

he received a fight Better Beef. He wants more money

39:30

for the fight. If he gets that money,

39:32

that fight could be put together. It would be a big event either

39:34

in Montreal at Bell Center or at

39:36

Madison Square Garden, or you could put it on Long

39:39

Island, you know where the Nassau

39:41

whatever they call the Nassau Coliseum now it's

39:44

a refurbished building. That would be perfect because Joe

39:46

Smith will draw a lot of fans from Long Island

39:48

for the fight, so you can make some

39:50

money at the gate in this fight. Whether you put it

39:52

in Canada or New York, it's

39:54

a very intriguing fight. That's

39:57

the fights that seems to make the most sense.

40:01

The reason I say that I would say that Cannello

40:03

doesn't make sense is because the fight would be

40:06

done in conjunction with would have to be done

40:08

in conjunction with top rank, because Canello doesn't

40:10

really have a promoter. Top rank

40:13

under no circumstances is going to pay Canelo

40:15

Alvarez thirty

40:17

five million, forty million, thirty million, twenty

40:19

five. You know you can keep going lower. They're not. They're

40:21

not doing it. So and I've been told

40:23

that on it quivocally. So Um, While

40:26

yes, I think Cannello and Joe Smith would be a good

40:28

fight to have at Madison Square Garden and it would

40:31

draw well their top ranks

40:33

not going on the hook for Canello's guarantee. So

40:35

I my best advice for

40:38

people who want to see Joe Smith fight Canelo Alvarez

40:40

is to forget it because I don't I don't think it's

40:42

going to happen. Um. I kind

40:44

of agree with you, but I'd

40:46

love to see it, man, Like, that's just I would love

40:48

to me too, But that's just fun. Especially

40:51

you were you were at the garden

40:53

when Canello fought Rocky Fielding. He's typically

40:56

a Vegas fighter that atmosphere

40:58

was awesome, Like that atmosphere was so good it

41:01

convinced Anthony Joshua to fight there

41:03

six months later, Like that's how good well

41:07

financially, ultimately it did, So yeah, maybe

41:09

maybe it's all watch this,

41:14

there he comes and then you collect that Middle East money

41:16

six months after that. So yeah, that is true

41:18

his pocket. I think,

41:21

um, maybe something that people from the outside

41:23

might not have realized is that there is a large contingent

41:26

of Mexican people in the New York New Jersey

41:28

area, a lot in Northern New Jersey in particular, a

41:30

lot of Mexican people here, and Canelo's beloved.

41:33

So uh, you know, so he fights anybody at Madison

41:35

Square Garden and I think it'll do well, but particularly Joe

41:37

Smith, because as you said, Joe has a big

41:39

fan base out there on Long Island as well. Um,

41:42

so I guess you know. The

41:44

one thing that Joe mentioned to me. I spoke to him

41:47

for a long time on the phone last week, and he he

41:50

does this. He mentions this every time I speak to him.

41:52

Basically, he wants a rematch with Bivall. Now

41:54

that's not as marketable as the better

41:57

BF fight or the Canelo fight because

41:59

BiVO, why does he want that? What does he tell you about?

42:01

Like, because I was at that fight and I

42:04

actually said this to Joe like a year ago.

42:07

I was like, Joe, like, that's one of those fights where, like, you

42:09

know, nine times out of ten, maybe nine times out one

42:11

hundred, you're probably not gonna win. Like, but Bivol,

42:14

like is just a his skill

42:16

levels to cut above and unless

42:18

you catch him, which Joe almost did late in that

42:20

fight, Um, it's

42:23

it's just a tough fight for him to win. Well,

42:26

what you just said there, Chris is the reason why he wants

42:28

another opportunity because he did catch him

42:30

at the end of the tenth I think it was the tenth or ninth or

42:32

tenth or good shot at

42:34

the bell, Yeah, him with a really good right

42:37

hand, and Bival was hurt. You could tell by the

42:39

way he reacted and the way he walked back to his corner

42:41

that he was hurt. If Joe Smith had ten to fifteen

42:43

more seconds in that round, he might have knocked Dmitri

42:45

Bibball out. He keeps that

42:48

that sticks in his mind so much

42:50

that Joe Smith has a clip of that

42:53

on his phone that he keeps on his phone

42:55

and that he looks at on occasion to remind

42:58

himself of what could have happened that fight in Lost

43:00

twenty nineteen. I was at ringside for the fight as

43:02

well, and he wants

43:04

his rematch now. He does realize that the better

43:07

BF fight is a bigger fight now and

43:09

Canello who doesn't want to fight Canello and make

43:12

as much money as possible, of course he would want that, but

43:14

he wants Biball in the ringing again now. He

43:16

lost virtually every round of the fight. The other

43:19

thing that he told me though, that you know, he's

43:21

not really an excuse maker, Joe Smith. He's kind

43:23

of like, you know, he's a

43:26

you know, a hard working, you

43:28

know, man's man, and he's not looking to make excuses.

43:30

But he did say that he had trained several

43:33

times to fight better BF, and

43:36

the fight was promised

43:38

to him after better BF fought Callum

43:40

Johnson and then for whatever reason, the fight

43:42

didn't happen. So he had been training then not training,

43:45

and training and not training. The short

43:47

version of this is that he thinks he might have been

43:49

overtrained going into the Biball fight. A

43:51

bit of all still an excellent boxer, a very smart

43:54

fighter, not the biggest puncher among light heavyweights,

43:56

but but very tough enough to beat. But he

43:58

thinks he might have been overtrained. He can't get over

44:00

the fact that he might have knocked him out had he had ten

44:03

or fifteen more seconds in that tenth round. I believe

44:06

so for him, that's what he wants. What

44:08

we want, obviously, is the better BF fight and

44:11

just one thing. Chris and I spent the decent amount

44:13

of time on the phone with Steve Geffrard the

44:15

other day. Guy's got a really interesting story.

44:17

I don't know if he has much chance to win the fight because

44:19

he's literally fought nobody. He's been a

44:21

pro for nine years and boy has he been matched

44:24

soft. But he lost. You

44:26

know. He was managed by Shelley Finkel, promoted

44:28

by Golden Boy, had a very good

44:30

amateur background as a heavyweight, and then

44:32

turned pro as a cruiserweight. Got stopped

44:35

in his pro debut.

44:37

He got a really bad cut on his forehead in a fight he

44:39

was winning, but he lost by technical knockout.

44:41

Came back to the ring like three and a half months later

44:44

and lost again. Lost a split decision to a

44:46

guy who was oh one and one, and Golden

44:48

Boy said, all right, that's enough with you losing fights.

44:51

To take it easy. And Shelley Finkel did

44:53

the same thing. He disassociated himself with Steve Geffrard

44:55

as well. So he met this

44:57

businessman, a guy who owned

45:00

a like this huge

45:03

chain of like home

45:06

kind of like home depot type of stores on

45:09

Long Island in Connecticut and New Jersey. The guy

45:11

was very wealthy, lived down in Boca Ratone. He saw

45:13

Steve Geffrard sparring against

45:16

Glenn Johnson one day, and he used to go to the gym

45:18

and he had invested in other fighters, and he said, oh, who's

45:20

this guy And he said, well, I believe it or not, he's own

45:22

two blah blah blah. And he became

45:24

his manager and he helped rebuild his career and unfortunately

45:27

he died. His former manager

45:30

passed away in July of twenty nineteen.

45:32

So he obviously we'll never get him seat

45:34

to get to see him fight for the title.

45:37

But it's a pretty incredible story because he was

45:39

he was supposed to fight a guy last Saturday night

45:41

who was seven and eight or seven eight and one,

45:44

so something like that. Which is a ridiculous

45:46

opponent for someone who's eighteen and two to be fighting.

45:48

But he was. He was in the sauna losing weight

45:50

to go way in that day and Kevin

45:52

Cunningham, who's a really good trainer

45:54

and tends not to waste his time with guys who can't

45:57

fight, so maybe he can fight a little better than we think.

46:00

Kevin called and say, look, you can fight Joe Smith

46:02

next. We'll scrap this thing, get out of the sauna and

46:04

uh, you know, fight Joe Smith next

46:06

Saturday night. He called Ericson Lubin,

46:09

who's this very close friend who he actually lived

46:11

with once upon a time, and Ericson

46:14

said, you got to take the fight, man. I mean you look, you know you're

46:16

thirty one years old. It's a great opportunity to take the

46:18

fight. He called Kevin Cunningham back and

46:21

boom, he's fighting Joe Smith instead of some

46:23

guy from Argentina who was seven and eight. Whatever

46:25

happened Saturday night, that's an amazing story. It's

46:29

an incredible story. And all credit to him for taking

46:31

a fight like this on what eight days. Noticed

46:33

when he officially got it, it's

46:35

it's really remarkable. They will do it. You

46:38

know, his chances to me are all about can you keep Joe

46:40

Smith off you for twelve rounds? And you

46:42

know, like that's tough, Like he's relentless when

46:44

he comes at you, and the guy can crack, that's

46:46

for sure, you know, to kind of pivot it

46:48

back to Canelo. I mean, I don't I

46:51

get what you're saying. Top rank wouldn't put up

46:53

that type of cash. I'm just like, is there more

46:56

if Joe Smith comes through this fight clean, like unscathed?

46:59

Is there more market fight for Cannelo in May?

47:01

Then Joe Smith? Like, if you do it in

47:03

New York like kind of you move

47:05

up to light have you weight? You fight this guy with a fan

47:08

base in New York City, you do it at Mass Square

47:10

Garden, Like, you know, there

47:12

are other good fights. Charlo is a decent fight.

47:14

Bevil is a decent fight. Um. You

47:17

know, if you're looking to sheer marketability though a fight

47:19

like that, that might be the biggest one. Let

47:22

me ask you, because I from a gate standpoint,

47:24

the fight would do big business to New York. There's

47:26

no two ways two ways about that. Well,

47:29

from a pay per view respective a pay

47:31

per view perspective, I think that Cannello

47:34

Charlo is a bigger fight. I mean, there's no

47:36

way that that Cannello Charlo would not do more

47:38

pay per view buys than Cannelo Joe Smith. That's

47:41

personally, and that's what I think. You're probably right, now, you're

47:43

you're probably right. Um, I don't think it's a huge

47:45

gap. Um, but you're probably

47:48

right. You know, Charlo's got a fan base and he's

47:50

undefeated. Um, he'll certainly sell

47:54

the fight really well during that

47:56

fight week. So yeah, I can see that. Um,

47:59

Yeah, close, good,

48:02

Chris. I wouldn't I wouldn't be surprised if Cannello

48:05

Charlom did

48:08

more pay per view buys in Canello Plant

48:10

because I think people would perceive Charlo as

48:13

a lot a more live underdog in the

48:15

fight than they viewed Caleb Plant as being.

48:21

Of course, if he's fighting Joe Smith, he's got to move up

48:23

to light heavyweight. Joe Smith's a banger.

48:26

You know that that went against He didn't look good

48:28

in his last fight against Bassoff. He did not look good

48:30

at all, But he looked fantastic against

48:32

Elder alvare As. He didn't look I don't

48:34

think he ever looked better than he did against Elder

48:36

Alvarez, including when he fought Bernard Hopkins,

48:39

because because Bynard Hopkins was fifty years old

48:41

when they fought. You know. So, I think

48:43

that's the best win of Joe Smith's career against Alvarez,

48:45

who Geffrard, who was fighting

48:47

on Saturday Night, actually has sparred in

48:51

multiple camps with Elder Alvarez, Arthur

48:53

betterbev Sullivan, Barrera, serge

48:55

Cola left. So he's been in the ring with all

48:58

of the top light heavyweights of this error for

49:00

the most part, except Joe Smith.

49:03

So he's been in there with some really good fighters, just not in

49:05

real fights. And of course when the bright lights come on, we'll

49:07

see how he does. Yeah, I'm coming to you, by

49:09

the way, for all Steve Geffard information moving

49:11

forward. You are a Steve Gifford all I'm

49:14

gonna I'm gonna write a Steve Geffroud book.

49:16

I don't think anyone's gonna buy it outside of Steve

49:18

Geffroud's family. It's a great story. Like you

49:20

said, I mean, get dropped by a promoter, get dropped

49:22

by your manager, claw your way back of rateen

49:25

wins and if he's able to pull this off, that

49:27

would be I mean, wow, that

49:29

would be able. Hell of a story for sure.

49:32

Keith. Good to talk to you, man. We will catch up

49:35

sometime soon. Same here,

49:37

Chris, Take care man when we come

49:39

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I like a couple of bets for this upcoming light

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heavyweight title bet between Joe Smith Junior

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and Steve Geffrard. Stick around for that.

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right, so on this podcast in twenty

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twenty two, we are going to add some

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more gambling elements of this courtesy

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of our good friends over at fan

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Duel, and we're going to stay locked in

53:06

this weekend on the light heavyweight

53:09

title fight between Joe Smith Junior

53:11

and Steve Geffrard. This is a

53:13

title defense for Smith and a huge

53:16

opportunity for Geffrard

53:18

who is coming in as a massive

53:20

underdog. And as big as those odds ares

53:23

wide as those odds are for Geffrard,

53:25

I can't bring myself to betting

53:27

on him in this fight. Joe Smith is

53:29

minus sixteen hundred going

53:32

into this fight. That's a big number,

53:35

but I'm that confident that he's going

53:37

to win. Joe has looked excellent

53:40

in recent fights. He knocked out

53:42

a Ledia Alvarez, He has a win over

53:45

Bernard Hopkins. He won his last fight, even

53:47

though it was close, against Maxine Vlassof

53:50

by decision, so we's shown he can win in

53:52

a variety of different ways. Take Joe Smith as

53:55

my lock of the week now. If you're

53:57

looking for a prop bet you got

54:00

to go with Joe Smith by knockout.

54:02

Again, not great odds for something

54:04

liked this. Joe is minus four forty

54:07

to win this fight by knockout. But Geffrard

54:09

has never fought anyone on

54:11

the level of Joe Smith. He's won eighteen

54:13

fights in a row, but they have been effectively

54:16

against club level level opposition.

54:19

He is taking this fight on eight days

54:21

notice, so even though he was training for another fight,

54:23

he wasn't training for Joe Smith. And I've

54:25

seen a lot of Joe Smith fights. Keeping

54:28

Joe Smith off of you is a very

54:31

very hard thing to do. So I'm taking Joe Smith

54:33

to win, and I'm taking Joe Smith to

54:35

win by knockoff. All courtesy of our

54:37

friends over at FanDuel. That's

54:40

it for this week's episode. My thanks to keep

54:42

Idek for joining the show. As always, subscribe,

54:45

rate review this podcast on Spotify,

54:47

Apple podcast, or wherever you could download

54:49

podcast, and we'll see you next week when maybe

54:52

we'll find Sergio Mora Mannix. I'm

54:54

a man on the run and I'm not doing your fucking podcast.

54:58

We're not doing it, bro the

55:00

Man on the Run. All the rud