0:01

You're listening to Be Human Upgrade with

0:03

Dave Aspirate. Formerly.

0:08

Bulletproof radio. You're.

0:18

Listening to The Human Upgrade

0:20

with Dave Asprey, Today.

0:24

We're going to talk about dogs specifically how

0:26

to hack your dog to live a lot

0:28

longer. Maybe not

0:30

quite, but maybe our guess

0:33

is that everyone who's working

0:35

on exactly that extending radically

0:37

sending lifespan dogs and other

0:40

pets as well but starting

0:42

dogs because dogs are better

0:45

and cats case you're wondering

0:47

now. Where you going to

0:49

hear here is a really fun conversation that

0:51

mixes human longevity because Matt is the Ceo

0:54

of Optus band or they're extending human life

0:56

or at least health spend as much as

0:58

they by but he's one of those guys

1:00

who still says how span because he hasn't

1:02

quite body and on the fact that we

1:05

are extending human life and that's the goal.

1:07

but I'm going bring him over on this

1:09

one so they'll be fun. Oh hey man

1:11

I didn't hear different and that there were

1:13

going also talk about hacking your dog which

1:16

is what I already mentioned and. For

1:18

hims like a lot about longevity in

1:20

your pets because there's such a commonality

1:22

of humans and dogs. So listen to

1:25

episode you'll learn something about how to

1:27

think about longevity for you and how

1:29

translate over to your pet rats in

1:31

town because it's south by southwest here

1:33

in Austin. which means it's a madhouse

1:35

about was the airport com net you

1:37

know it was. Pretty. Crazy.

1:39

but I made it so that's

1:42

all accounts. I My son is

1:44

coming and is fine by himself

1:46

and. He's. Probably never seen

1:48

in an airport at that level of care

1:50

of some. kind of. Looking forward to his

1:52

eyes rolling back in his head as he

1:54

just sees what true traffic chaos is like.

1:57

Now I'm. Given a couple toxins out by the.

2:00

Here are like year also giving a talk

2:02

on by your resume with that spray. Yeah.

2:04

So there's a panel discussion on I

2:06

think it's called something like could dogs

2:09

be the key to unraveling human longevity

2:11

or or something like that. But.

2:13

It's needs You're doing the dog

2:15

aging project. I and. Dogs.

2:18

Have it is really nice. Space.

2:20

Between. And longevity research

2:22

that a lot of my books are

2:25

based on and all sorts of yeast

2:27

and roundworms and then maybe goes to

2:29

my spread. Ads. And then. Maybe.

2:32

We have some other data summer another

2:34

and then we start using it with

2:36

humans using aging clocks. As

2:38

what we do today are right and yeah

2:41

and edging closer. Pretty useful because before that

2:43

we can do anything nice. There's still some

2:45

like Luddites. Skeptic people are like it's like

2:47

me know as like Peter A do this

2:50

as aging hawks are in Scientific. I'm like

2:52

I will see Steve Horvath in a wrestling

2:54

match with with. Peter. A T. I

2:56

know both of those guys and I'm pretty sure

2:58

I know that would will trigger a deterrent when.

3:01

But yeah, that's because he's a meathead, not a

3:03

longevity. Scientists is my point here. So sorry Peter,

3:05

you need to revisit what is scientific. And maybe

3:07

it was time in the gym, more time in

3:09

the labs to San, so I actually want to

3:11

push back on that a little bit. Peter is

3:13

a friend of mine, but I also one of

3:16

the people I. Tell. You know

3:18

if I were them is about among among

3:20

these on a believer and longevity is about

3:22

I would disagree with that like I think

3:24

I think Peter has strongly held opinions like

3:26

all of us do that are dumb down

3:28

thought most of the time is right and

3:30

I would say among along on stands and

3:32

max not my among a lot of the.

3:34

Ah, Influencers in this space. I think Peter

3:36

does a good job of doing his homework and

3:38

and I think there is some nuance Here I

3:40

am and certainly not going to try to speak

3:43

for Peter. but here's the way I would find

3:45

the aging clock say I think they are. Very.

3:47

Useful research tools. I think

3:50

that I'm. The. Utility

3:52

of the Bay aging clocks in

3:54

the consumer space is pretty questionable

3:56

in my mind. and heart of

3:58

that is because we really don't

4:00

have much data on how precise

4:02

or reproducible these clocks are when

4:04

sold by companies to consumers. And

4:07

so I actually have a lot

4:09

of concern that these talks are

4:11

being misused and abused in the

4:13

Can consumer space. Interesting. I also

4:15

think bad. It's important to recognize

4:17

that that all of the clocks

4:19

that are currently in use are

4:21

really only measuring. One sometimes

4:24

too small aspects of biological

4:26

agent we don't really know.

4:29

You. Know to what extent are they

4:31

capturing the entire biological aging process? Nothing.

4:34

Does right now and as. If. We'd

4:36

We'd You know that aging clocks and

4:38

of Steve Harvest interpretation of it is

4:40

the first? Some there's about a dozen

4:42

others they can predict when you're going

4:44

to die within about ten years. Pretty

4:46

reliably. I think it depends

4:48

on what you mean By pretty reliably, I can

4:50

look at somebody and predict pretty reliably whether they're

4:52

going to die engineers. That's a

4:54

good point I would have to look at as

4:56

a number compared I've had this conversation was besides

4:59

like I didn't know how the math leave out

5:01

sit there is a matter of internet looking at

5:03

somebody fair. honestly not that great. They're.

5:07

They're. Better than to immerse of. Ah yes,

5:09

but he actually at bats. True, The

5:11

question is, is that because we don't have

5:14

the tools yet? The precisely measure our

5:16

individual Zealand or like I actually think this

5:18

is a super interesting questions way off. Way.

5:20

Off on its hands it but why I think it is.

5:23

Really? Something we don't We don't know at

5:26

this point whether the epigenetics which is what

5:28

Steve Clark is based on. On

5:30

those are nice because we have huge

5:32

dimensionality, are tens of thousands of epigenetic

5:35

marks we can measure, and we can

5:37

do a very precisely. At Very

5:39

different than the telomeres where we only

5:41

have you know forty six or so

5:43

when I measure and we can't do

5:45

it. Very precise and some maybe telomeres

5:47

actually are pretty good clock. If we

5:49

could measure, I don't notice. I actually

5:52

don't believe that's I'm just saying we

5:54

don't know the answers. as in it's

5:56

true that we're discovering a lot and

5:58

we know more now than we did

6:00

and every that nobody could argue about.

6:02

And seven seventy two days, the amount

6:04

of info we have about biology doubles.

6:06

Yes. So it is is golden age

6:08

of longevity resurgence and I've seen que

6:10

la mer numbers swing by twenty years

6:12

in one week. That's either because of

6:14

lab errors or because your blood is

6:17

a terrible played well that he when

6:19

I think that's a good point. Absolutely.

6:21

That issued site figure measuring and blood

6:23

of courses is a complex. He.

6:25

A set of method of cell types the

6:27

you're actually measuring so gathered that and for

6:29

this goes back to my point earlier which

6:31

is that I think fifth, while these things

6:33

can be a useful in a research settings

6:35

because of a lot of those uncertainties about

6:37

what we're actually measure yes or utility in

6:39

the real world for now I think is

6:42

is unclear but I'm super enthusiastic back. Were

6:44

gonna get there and founded the not too

6:46

distant future. As I would say that. That.

6:48

aging fox are extremely scientific

6:50

and early days. Bread.

6:53

And. So be the idea that,

6:55

well, there's no way we're going to extend

6:57

human life and there's no way to measure

6:59

how old you are biologically, Which is of

7:02

a summation of Odd Peter's worth, which is

7:04

why I might. It's let's go to the

7:06

A for M S, let's go to the

7:08

people were actually looking extending life with something

7:10

besides exercise and stands. Because.

7:12

Well I think those have been tried for a

7:14

while and no one's living longer. That's

7:16

that's why I'm are you believe in the

7:19

success of just a twenty Minute by looking

7:21

at twenty minutes a week of us as

7:23

I did. And. I

7:25

do it with a I and that of gave us a

7:27

i believe that most of the way over exercise. Or

7:29

including peter. And because it

7:31

turns out it's not area under the curve,

7:33

it's the slope of the curve up. and

7:36

most importantly, the slope of the curve down.

7:38

And in the nutrients and protein availability. So.

7:40

I'm going to push back a

7:42

little bit and sigma they feel

7:44

good. Success has slowly for most

7:46

of our don't up.over exercise maybe

7:48

mammal in the optimization world over

7:51

I suspect is people who exercise

7:53

every day. Usually. Over exercise

7:55

and almost everyone doesn't have enough. And

7:58

so there's a lot going on there

8:00

and it's funny because it where it

8:02

were here to talk about dogs were

8:05

talking about humans because I think dogs

8:07

are the bridge between the research from

8:09

my sins east. Adds of

8:11

the little creatures and have if they can

8:13

live longer. There's pretty good evidence and some

8:16

of that some of us but it doesn't

8:18

always. And so.

8:20

Or. It's in the middle of dogs

8:22

are like posted a people than they

8:24

are use but there's some pretty far

8:26

away. s yeah and I mean subversive.

8:28

I love the way you sort of

8:31

frame that because because my career ah

8:33

has followed that trajectory, I started in

8:35

East as a graduate students and worked

8:37

in nematode worms as opposed I young

8:39

when I started my own lab we

8:41

started to Stop a Mice because I

8:43

believe that there were aspects of aging

8:45

biology that were in fact shared across

8:47

this broad evolutionary distance. Turns out that's

8:50

right arm. And then about ten

8:52

years ago it occurred to me

8:54

bad. As. You Suggested Dogs are

8:56

this really powerful bridge between the

8:58

laboratory studies and humans are only

9:00

because they're closer to humans in

9:02

a biological sense, but there's a

9:04

huge environmental component, a nice tits

9:06

or choose not to study in

9:08

the laboratory that's really important for

9:10

human aging arm, And because dogs

9:13

share so much of the human

9:15

environment least companion dogs are pet

9:17

dogs do. We can capture that

9:19

environmental component and really understand. You

9:21

know not only one of the

9:23

most important genetic factors. That influence longevity

9:25

of what are the most important environmental factors.

9:27

And then there's this huge other piece which

9:30

and I'm most interested in as we can

9:32

actually test. Whether. Interventions effect

9:34

lifespan and husband metrics in dogs, which would

9:36

be great for giving his confidence of people.

9:39

But I'm a dog person so what I

9:41

really care about is making my dogs and

9:43

other people's dogs live longer, healthier lives. The.

9:46

Number of people in the longevity enthusiast feel.

9:48

Whether you work in the field are you

9:50

to someone like me this is spent decades

9:52

I said you worked muscles From the think

9:54

of it, that's as it is. So.

9:59

I was a number of us who. Has who are

10:01

not on longevity regimens is very love.

10:03

All of us know fast. The.

10:05

Things that work for me like red

10:07

lights and we know what it does

10:09

with mitochondrion, sell folding and all that

10:11

stuff aviation china that the dog when

10:13

the dog hurts and in the dark

10:15

stops hurting and it probably affects longevity

10:17

and maybe not feeding them the had

10:20

equivalent of chicken nuggets. also afraid of

10:22

the right so we all can do

10:24

that at whereas. Is so

10:26

very common. People go to the the certainly

10:28

by be big. Things. Have

10:30

have. Had sued that are

10:32

made out of euthanized dogs. And.

10:34

Maybe a dog Sunita? Like There's

10:37

some really bad stuff, and I

10:39

mean there's some really interesting and

10:41

in many ways unfortunate parallels between

10:43

You know what most human beings

10:45

eat? Everly the quality of

10:47

the diet the most human beings eat

10:50

and the quality of the diet that

10:52

most human beings give to their companion

10:54

animals and is complicated reasons for that

10:56

obviously. but I'm in. I think you're

10:58

right. I think the people who are

11:00

on this path towards improving their own

11:02

house band trajectory often recognize that the

11:04

same thing is true for their pets

11:06

and take out healthier approach their pets.

11:10

T Bio Hacker. See, you've heard of

11:12

stem cells. You know they're powerful. And.

11:15

Maybe wonder about stem cell therapy

11:17

for the process Seems kind of

11:19

a dense because it is. Where.

11:21

There's a new company called Stem

11:23

Region that I've been working with.

11:26

The. Founder Christian Drapeau is a

11:28

stem cells scientist. He's. Traveled

11:31

the world in search of unknown

11:33

plant extracts that can stimulate the

11:35

release of your body's own stem

11:37

cells right from your bone marrow.

11:39

His. Discoveries led to an amazing

11:42

breakthrough and stem cell therapy. Steam.

11:44

Region is the world's first

11:46

stem cell enhancers. Just

11:48

to capsules will release ten million

11:51

of your own stem cells into

11:53

circulation. Those. Stem cells migrate

11:55

throughout your body. And help your

11:57

body naturally repair and renew itself.

12:00

This. Is a new, powerful and very

12:02

cost effective way. To. Get the benefits

12:04

of themselves without having to hop on an

12:06

airplane. In. About twenty

12:09

percent off. Now

12:11

go to Stemregion.coach/dame

12:13

That's Stemregion.c O/dave.

12:16

People. Will throw the word superfood around.

12:19

Why? Get mean something and they'll play

12:21

to almost anything I'm waiting to see.

12:23

Superfood kibble for humans. But. There

12:26

are real superfoods and there's one that

12:28

I've been researching for years. With so

12:30

many health benefits. You. Must win. Believe

12:33

it. I. First started using it

12:35

for got health and then I figured

12:37

out that supports metabolism, hair growth, healthy

12:39

skin immunity, And. Even athletic

12:42

performance. And talking about Colossi

12:44

from. Classroom. Is the first

12:46

nutrition we receive and life and as

12:48

all the essential nutrients. That. Your

12:51

body needs to thrive and grow. The.

12:53

Get those nutrients! It's important to

12:55

properly source your classroom. And.

12:57

That's why I use armor

12:59

a classroom. Armor. Is

13:01

a bovine classroom concentrate that's

13:03

natural, sustainable and third party

13:05

tested for purity and efficacy.

13:07

Most classrooms is that you

13:10

might find our he pasteurized

13:12

which depletes nutrients and changes

13:14

proteins. Armas process preserve the

13:16

integrity of or hundred bioactive

13:18

nutrients. It's also been shown

13:20

to have the highest potency

13:22

and bioavailability have any cost

13:24

him on the market. Since.

13:26

I started taking armor class from. I've

13:28

noticed a difference. may energy, my

13:31

fitness, my skin, my guys. Especially

13:33

when I travel. And I like it that they can take

13:35

one or two or three scoops and I could just take

13:38

it or my mouth. or I can drink it with water.

13:40

And. It tastes miles and it

13:43

really does change the state of

13:45

my body. It's. A potent

13:47

anti aging substance. Go.

13:49

To try: armor.com Tryarmra.com is

13:52

code Daves. I'll give you

13:54

fifteen percent off your first

13:56

order. People. Are talking about this a

13:58

lot online. I've been. The classroom for

14:00

years I just couldn't find one that consistently

14:03

worked are rough. We makes me happy because

14:05

it does. The. Euro.

14:07

Your Phd ends are actually a

14:09

very well studied ones that you

14:11

will is published. Turn Fifty Studies.

14:13

Something like that. You found a

14:15

research centers and you're in the

14:17

American Aging Association. And. So

14:19

you talk like the best Pc ever. But

14:21

I think what I heard you say, and

14:24

hours as humans and dogs shouldn't eat, kibble

14:26

that together after. A

14:29

federally I think humans on he

14:31

said adding simple and I think

14:33

again the quality of the food

14:35

ah it's some right is a

14:37

is in the general food supply

14:39

is really problematic both plus dogs

14:41

and for people. Ah yeah, so

14:43

we've got to six food and

14:45

for me, food is mostly not

14:47

a longevity issue. Is. A

14:50

cow Spanish here. I.

14:52

Don't know. I'm I understand that

14:54

perspective. I would say I'm I'm

14:57

a little bit less certain. I

14:59

certainly believe to some extent that

15:01

the reason. Polity. Diet.

15:04

Exercise Appropriate amount of exercise. Whatever that

15:06

is. I think we're still figuring that

15:08

out as Exercise Sleep quality. I think

15:10

the reason those things impact multiple age

15:12

related diseases simultaneously is precisely because they

15:15

are impacting the biology of aging at

15:17

it was the way I would frame

15:19

it is I you can only get

15:21

so far by modifying those lifestyle factors

15:23

and so you're not going to see.

15:27

Hundred and fifty hundred and sixty

15:29

year old people in good How

15:31

simply by modifying exactly when I

15:33

can extend life very much, you

15:35

can reduce toxins. You can probably

15:37

hit your maximum. Your

15:39

maximum lifespan sort of genetic potential

15:41

without additional intervention in yeah, and

15:43

that's lifestyle and all that of

15:45

by extending at that stuff. Like

15:48

the gene therapy that I just

15:50

said. And I have

15:52

these of the fittest or it was

15:54

will say of course spread and and

15:56

for all of all of history it's

15:59

always been. Well see for all losing never

16:01

do it on things like that's a we just have

16:03

better tools now to do it. And. A

16:05

Maybe. Maybe. The guy who said.

16:08

His. Men will never fly a year before

16:10

the Wright Brothers flu maybe was right. I'm gonna

16:12

bet on as extending it in my son as

16:15

as he says we are like that he I'm

16:17

in Utah. I have no doubt they see all

16:19

the research being. Have no doubt that are awesome

16:21

right? Of course if I think he noted. That

16:24

the questions in my mind more ah, revolve

16:26

around how long is it going to take

16:29

before we can actually demonstrate that these things

16:31

work And this is where. Going back

16:33

to the heat and clocks. I think once

16:35

the aging fox evolve to the point where

16:38

there's ah, confidence that they are in fact

16:40

predicting future mortality, future disease risk with

16:42

high precision, then you have a real opportunity

16:44

is still not going to be proof until

16:46

you actually see somebody live that long. But

16:49

you can be pretty darn confident. Yeah,

16:51

these things are having the affected you wanted

16:53

them to happen. The last question is is

16:55

there some long term consequences that we don't

16:58

know about This going to offset. Rights

17:00

as it only takes only takes one mortality events

17:02

to keep you from living alongside. So that's an

17:04

unknown and you know we're not going to know

17:06

till we get them. One of

17:09

my big longevity strategy is to drive

17:11

as easy a call center at rights

17:13

avoid dying. I took his rule number

17:15

one of longevity I use it uses

17:17

Esa sorry but not sufficient. As

17:21

I if you're in the previous owner be in

17:23

a suburban suspects and you know that. Start not

17:26

to say that I think I'm more important than

17:28

you and I was allocated my resources in a

17:30

way where physics protects me up and it's It's

17:32

something I think is is not looked at enough

17:34

in in the Seals of Longevity as. You

17:37

know, don't. Fall down and break yourself.

17:39

Don't blow your spine Elena, you're hitting a

17:41

new Pr when you're sixty as probably not

17:43

worth it right? Yeah, absolutely. I mean week

17:46

we kind of think about. you know, for

17:48

our movements. I had Optus men as we're

17:50

we're trying to take communicate some of these

17:52

ideas. The people in one of them is

17:55

stay in alive right? You gotta? You gotta

17:57

avoid risky behaviors and you know it's it's.

18:00

The line is a lot of locked

18:02

is a of credibility in life but

18:04

you can change the probabilities in your

18:06

favor Like you're saying by taking steps

18:08

to reduce your likelihood of dying. He

18:11

had to pick one thing. not exercising. Or.

18:14

Eating just the worst possible fast food diet for the

18:17

rest your life? Which one would you pay. For.

18:19

Have to do one of the yes the longer. I.

18:22

Would oh guys want to exercise your i don't

18:24

think I could eat the worst fast food diet.

18:26

I'd have to choose not exercising. never seen a

18:28

sock for me that but I could. Yeah.

18:31

It. Would be a. I. Mean again as

18:33

somebody who ate of pretty crappy diet like many

18:35

people for a big chunk the I life inquire

18:37

about the same and now that I'm out of

18:39

that were like I a just is repulsive to

18:41

me to think I'm going back to I will

18:43

never go back to eating food that makes it

18:45

so crappy and I am willing to die on

18:48

that. and if this is what the regulators who

18:50

think we're gonna live on forgets and grain. I.

18:52

Can't live on that. And I was. and

18:54

I'll eat a politician be probably to Cricket

18:56

and Amazon came from they're made out of

18:58

meats. Yes, that was not my ideal source

19:01

of me, but I actually think this is

19:03

pretty interesting that I talk to a fair

19:05

number of other people who kind of share

19:07

that. Are. Not so much

19:09

about eating politicians, but the the sort

19:11

of revulsion at the idea of of

19:13

going back to this standard American diet,

19:15

right? and I. It's hard sometimes for

19:17

people who aren't already in this place

19:19

to understand that, but I think it's

19:21

just worth emphasizing rights. It's really about

19:23

building habits and if you can get

19:26

out of the the habits the you're

19:28

in that. Society. And culture

19:30

pushes you towards and get to a. Better.

19:32

Place in terms of the quality of your

19:35

diet. You. Will it's I can almost

19:37

guarantee you will have. You will agree that that

19:39

there's is no way you want to go back

19:41

to that once you get out of it. And

19:43

also it's not the same from. That's

19:46

true. Absolutely Zero people who just feel great

19:48

on chicken. I. Am of these

19:50

guy and I've tested everything out. he gravel

19:52

if I could but beef is what works

19:54

for me. undies her instagram. My beef with

19:56

a regulatory thing is it's like know you're

19:58

going to my Aussie. We're We're not. We're

20:00

not. can be okay with this Or here's

20:02

the way I think about. I think there

20:04

are multiple types of high quality diet. There

20:07

is not a one size fits all. I

20:09

completely agree with that and I think beds

20:11

said I'm. But. I also think

20:13

that there is a. High

20:15

quality diet. That. Can fit

20:17

almost everybody. So in other words, I'm

20:20

I. I don't believe his hair that

20:22

there are people who will just thrive.

20:24

Or if there are, they are the

20:26

way outliers who will just prime on

20:28

on garbage. And you know

20:30

there are some I I know people who

20:32

do a least for while. And. They also

20:34

know a couple people who thrive on a vegan

20:36

diet. It's. Just their kids and their grandkids

20:38

are painful. Because. It matters.

20:40

In fact, if you look at the other houses,

20:43

the gun offspring and things like that, it is

20:45

not pretty. Of was sent or house.

20:48

So you might get away with it,

20:50

but you're actually paying for it in

20:52

future generations. It's a it's a big

20:54

Aramis. Yeah, I mean I'm I'm less

20:56

opinionated about big and I am not

20:58

have begun. but I I don't I'm

21:00

certainly not of the and Basher and

21:02

I was a devout be again for

21:05

a couple years. And yeah, trashed Miles

21:07

African a big way. And I'm I'm

21:09

I'm a Foods supporter. I absolutely love

21:11

the Big in philosophy. Like some and

21:13

Six have your house, don't take care

21:15

of the planet and you want to

21:17

reduce. An animal suffering and dust. The problem

21:19

is the weekend. I doesn't do any of those

21:21

three banks ass and I believe the dead and

21:23

so yeah. and I think the way I sort

21:26

of also. Think. About this

21:28

but I struggle along with the

21:30

nutrition literature. I mean honestly many

21:32

trick look these are these are

21:34

good science is trying to trying

21:36

to do good science but it's

21:38

really hard to do psychology. I

21:40

definitive science in human nutrition and

21:42

so I really struggle with a

21:44

lot of the epidemiology and so

21:46

I personally you know I'm very

21:48

slow to some to strong conclusions

21:50

about what is the optimal die

21:52

of what isn't and and where

21:54

the long term consequences to some

21:56

of these. Dietary different dietary approaches

21:59

people. I think enough Again, the way

22:01

or the way I sort of a

22:03

line. Is there something but we can

22:05

be almost certain are not good to

22:08

have in your diet. I highly processed

22:10

food. Lot of simple sugars right? low

22:12

low quality bats so I think those

22:14

are the things that. That.

22:17

Most people should agree if their knowledge

22:19

about i want to get out of

22:21

your dice another flavorings and coloring jammers

22:23

like that Yeah and those are bad

22:25

for dogs are bad for people are

22:27

and from there in a what what

22:29

plants Hobson's and your body tolerate vs

22:31

minds and. Twenty. Percent of

22:33

rheumatoid arthritis is caused by night

22:35

shades. If you have the genetics,

22:37

But. For you know of genetics, you've eaten

22:40

all day long and innocently actually ties in.

22:42

And an interesting way to their biology of

22:44

aging because I think a lot of what's

22:46

driving that is our own individual immune response.

22:48

Yeah, I so did the reaction of the

22:51

immune system, the molecules that we're getting in

22:53

our diet, and other places in the environment.

22:55

As Dr. Chronic Inflammation, some people are just

22:57

much more prone to that sort of hyper

23:00

inflammatory states and and that leads to a

23:02

lot of the conditions that you're talking about.

23:04

I'm certainly one of those. Him being three

23:06

hundred pounds. Over. the house of

23:08

I've gone through when I was younger so.

23:11

I recommend I'd and coming from behind and

23:13

goal to live to be some hundred eighty

23:15

mon to die trying. Fine with that. If

23:17

as hundred fifty percent lot of the night

23:19

or the is you know this is pretty

23:21

cool. One of the things that has emerged

23:23

from the literature in my academic career is

23:25

that it doesn't seem like there's a point

23:27

where it's too late unless you've got a

23:29

disease or the pathology of the disease. The

23:31

sort of outpaced the biology of aging so

23:33

we now know and we didn't notice when

23:35

I started. But now we know you can

23:37

start. Intervening. In middle age

23:39

and still get pretty big. Effects

23:42

on both longevity and house man. And

23:45

if you start. Be. For pregnancy or

23:47

three months before your mother was pregnant

23:49

with you and you have a really

23:51

healthy pregnancy, guess you get the most

23:53

leverage on what I'd already. Epigenetic effects,

23:56

right? and others are. My first book

23:58

was on fertility. Was you before. The

24:00

pregnant and then it's sort of. You get

24:02

less and less leverage the longer you wait

24:04

to do lunch of interventions. I'm just like

24:07

in my twenties I went to people their

24:09

eighties on his longevity stuff and in Palo

24:11

Alto I wonder though guys you know this

24:13

is that's that's sort of be ah mindset.

24:16

I think people had. A.

24:18

For two thousand and nine when the first

24:20

study on Rafa my son in law he

24:22

was dying where they said have accidentally started

24:24

the treatment in a sixty year old equivalent

24:26

bows I think what we've learned is that

24:28

at least with some interventions you can get

24:30

most of the benefit sturdy even starting late

24:32

I saw some of them. You can. Get.

24:34

An Editing. As these tools to kind of reset

24:37

the up a genome evolve, we might actually be

24:39

able to get closer to that sort of initial

24:41

epigenetic state you're talking about. It may not even

24:43

matter at a certain point in that the world

24:46

that I see coming. As you'll

24:48

be able to edit your mitochondrial dna

24:50

so it so it more closely works

24:52

with your nuclear dna and these are

24:54

all as or double settings in your

24:56

hardware. The biggest sounds will be if

24:58

you make too big of a change

25:00

is just causing systems integration towards between

25:02

all the difference yeah I mean I

25:04

it's interesting I don't know how far

25:06

I'm going again I during a theoretically

25:08

that's that's all possible I think the

25:10

challenge but I see in this is

25:12

where you know to be interesting to

25:14

see how effective the sort of evolution

25:16

of hey I Tools is. At At

25:18

At at disentangling the complexity of

25:20

the biology. Of but I'm

25:22

in this feel deep yeah and I recognize

25:25

how little we are actually understand. That

25:28

what we think we know is just wrong and

25:30

the airwaves that that's a slowdown. It'll be interesting

25:32

to see her but I do agree on fast

25:34

that's on that on the tapes and I just

25:36

don't. Allies insect to get their five. A pretty

25:38

good track record of seeing things are for the

25:40

app and I am the first guy to sell

25:42

anything over the internet before ecommerce have a name.

25:45

it was a teacher the said caffeine my drug

25:47

of choice. I sold out. My dorm room was

25:49

in the Miami Herald and like the first data

25:51

center companies, I. I've I've picked. Reliably.

25:54

I'll have a track record of thinking is gonna happen

25:56

before does, but now I'm wise because I have

25:58

some age on me now. So.

26:01

I would have said is it'll be three

26:03

years before we get there if I was

26:05

twenty minutes and ten years before that. They're

26:08

mostly because of events as an ally subject

26:10

to. Ah, To do things

26:12

one the government's don't succeed and

26:14

in. Between. Destroying our access

26:16

to these things or to breaking a

26:18

i don't think they can but they

26:21

my or into that a comment as

26:23

net the planet but otherwise I'm pretty

26:25

confident on it because. We

26:27

have a hard time conceptualizing. This.

26:29

Is even a beyond exponential rate of growth in

26:32

a I I. I think we're going to get

26:34

there. As long as we train Ai to care

26:36

about it, then it'll It'll do it. But if

26:38

we train the I did be really good at

26:40

killing people. it might not care much about making.

26:42

As the longer said this vs. Evian matter who

26:44

we should, we should sit down and in come

26:46

up with a bad about like what are the

26:48

icon What do we actually want to bet on?

26:50

I'm less optimistic, but in part that's because and

26:52

again this is where the exponential downplays and can

26:54

for you. But I look back at where we

26:57

were ten years ago and as fields and I

26:59

don't see ten. Years from now as getting

27:01

to that allow it or not everyone will

27:03

get that well during the first couple people

27:05

will get their own. well yes there maybe

27:08

people who are that there's already people hurting

27:10

their genome. So scientists there's a really nice

27:12

have the gene therapy but it wasn't my

27:14

Maya inheritable genome the which gene therapy I

27:17

did the false and of air via we

27:19

are many circles as poznan level stuff and.

27:22

I I'm impressed and I'll I'll be in

27:24

the first trial. For the biology real. I

27:26

mean there's no question about at it Works.

27:29

right? And now affected. In.

27:31

Or nine years it comes off your age

27:33

and clock For that be so that doesn't

27:35

really matter very much. My job at their

27:37

bones density increase in the Us or increase

27:39

in muscle and the decrease in fat works.

27:42

And bug eyed. Super intriguing. I or that

27:44

that's one of the spaces I'm watching pretty

27:46

closely. It's. Funny because you

27:48

know in your day job you're at Op's

27:50

Espana resounding sending a human lifespan frying clients

27:53

and then and your your night job you

27:55

single. It's the same thing for.yeah how the

27:57

company says it's not the high end. The

28:00

only where I deserve to started another

28:02

I when I would save our mission

28:04

it off the span is really to

28:06

enable the transition from. Reactive.

28:08

Disease care to pro active health swingers many

28:11

people as possible for I like so. And.

28:13

I think there are lots of ways you can

28:16

do that. There are lots of smart people working

28:18

on this, but I think we have an opportunity

28:20

to contribute and so we're really looking. Right now

28:22

At two lanes one is sort of high end

28:25

on for years medicine because that's the place where

28:27

you can do the most expensive, most sophisticated sort

28:29

of approach is here, but we're also working in

28:31

the corporate one the space and trying to say

28:34

what can we do. In. This.

28:36

Pro. Active Science Based Health

28:38

Care. Or. You know,

28:41

fifteen hundred, two thousand dollars a

28:43

year something employers might be willing

28:45

to put towards employee health recruitment

28:47

retention things like that. So we

28:49

really are trying. To. Democratize.

28:52

This as much as possible. Recognizing that as

28:55

a for profit company in a you also

28:57

have to be able to make revenue. Or

29:00

absolutely if you run a business that

29:02

doesn't make any money ever. As

29:05

phone are very good business and a lesser

29:07

Amazon or for Tesla. Oh in

29:09

that way the suspects sometimes you get of

29:11

external funding but I'm with yes I believe

29:13

that the best we can change the world

29:16

is as nice dinner not as a donor.

29:18

Right? And I also have donated meaningful amounts

29:20

of money to projects I believe in, but

29:22

into the day if the money makes more

29:25

money to support the cause. Now in our

29:27

to fly with you've got a movements and

29:29

Vs you've got a one time flash. We.

29:31

Talked about. Human. Aging.

29:34

A little bit here and is why we don't

29:36

know and we're making great progress. Now.

29:39

We also know small dogs.

29:42

Live. Longer than big dogs are. Does this

29:44

mean that small humans live longer than big

29:46

humans? Yeah, actually there's some evidence to support

29:48

that. So this is something where people, ah,

29:50

have a lot of confusion. There's this idea.

29:52

That. I'm large animals live longer

29:55

than small animals and that's true. If

29:57

you look across species, have you looked

29:59

across. The Animal Kingdom. larger. Animals

30:01

do in fact live longer than small, and

30:04

white elephants are ways that, right? Yes, But

30:06

when you look within a species in general,

30:08

at least in mammals, smaller individuals and a

30:10

live longer than larger individuals. And that's true.

30:13

And people complicated. And people by the fact

30:15

that there is a social component to being

30:17

tall and so. You. Have to can

30:19

take that into consideration. Dogs are interesting because

30:21

the body size. Difference. Is

30:24

so much bigger. When. You look

30:26

across the dogs species that we can really see

30:28

the difference in age and race. As.

30:30

Had six toxins over the course of

30:33

my last. Ah, including

30:35

when as a kid and all of

30:37

them live Fifteen, sixteen, seventeen years old,

30:39

and. Of, but the last

30:41

two were when I knew the most

30:43

about nutrition and longevity and I applied

30:45

those things. A Merlin. Out

30:47

who is Sad last dog that I had.

30:50

A persuade his fifteen and a half or something, but

30:52

he got. A krill oil every

30:55

day and he gods a little bit

30:57

of collagen and he a mostly raw

30:59

grass fed beef and some egg yolks

31:01

and isn't and I'm very small amounts

31:03

of as for matter. And we're

31:05

was young. I gave him things like the birthday

31:07

of bones and raw food and I don't think

31:10

dogs as was these huge amounts of celery carrots.

31:12

It didn't work so well. But. It

31:14

ends up with a dog the just didn't have

31:16

pain in his body. On. Didn't

31:18

have a lot of the debilitating things

31:20

know the palmas and good for and

31:22

right of is pretty incredible right? Yeah.

31:25

I mean, I think I think this goes

31:27

back a little better. What we touched on earlier

31:29

about how a lot of the components of

31:31

the diet for dogs as well are pro inflammatory

31:34

and other words, they're not things, but the.

31:36

Say nine Body has evolved to see

31:39

so there's an immune response against some

31:41

of these factors and that gives you

31:43

this chronic inflammatory state which drives body

31:45

diseases of aging. Lot of pain that

31:47

the he mentions. One of the things

31:49

the challenging and dogs is there's much

31:51

less data on the long term effects

31:53

of different diet. Yeah in Doctor there's

31:55

a lot of. Strong.

31:57

Opinions out there, sir, and not a lot of

31:59

good data. The one of the things we

32:01

want to do it, the Dog Aging Project

32:03

is actually quite that data, so we can

32:06

actually start to understand and be able to

32:08

draw strong conclusions. That yes, in fact, a

32:10

particular diet does seem to be associated with.

32:13

Much. Longer I'll span. There's

32:15

that, words and lifespan. Or

32:18

we all want health span. So it's a it's

32:20

a great goal, it's just not. A. Big

32:22

goal. I once, how spend twice

32:24

as long? Yeah, that's a big dog, I agree. So

32:26

I hear what you're saying. Here's the way I would

32:28

think about it and this is easier to talk about

32:30

in humans than a dozen dogs again, cause we have

32:33

the data. At an individual

32:35

level, I agree completely. At. A

32:37

population level. Health span

32:39

in the United States: States: Sox Romeo:

32:41

Sixty percent of people have a chronic

32:44

disease. Average lifespan of the United States

32:46

is thirty eight point one years. That.

32:48

Means that if you define else fan

32:51

as the period of life without a

32:53

chronic disease or disability, I'll

32:56

spend ends for most people before they're thirty

32:58

eight years old. Life. Expectancy is in

33:00

the mid seventies so we can if we could

33:02

push that help. And for about that's a big

33:04

deal of the population as is. It's a very

33:07

easy God is mostly. thats it easy to talk

33:09

about with his be harder to accomplish behavior change.

33:11

We don't need to know more to do that,

33:13

we just need to do more to do that.

33:16

You can move it out Twenty years. With what

33:18

we know today, I think that's true. I think

33:20

it's more than behavior change. I think there's policy

33:22

factors. there's also.others have it goes into that, but

33:24

I hear weakest. you have to clean out the

33:27

big food agencies that control the government agencies that.

33:29

Tell us what to eat. I my be part

33:31

of As and a chance Tax incentives for those

33:33

are all and ultimately behavior. It's doable. Yeah, it's

33:35

so if you have to crack the atoms. In.

33:38

Order for such as a as a society

33:40

right and what we're looking to do in

33:42

the doubling of human lifespan is the equivalent

33:44

of yeah, Manhattan project level, undertake it. I

33:46

agree. I mean a lot of the best

33:49

that people have been able to do in

33:51

a mouse beyond genetic interventions are development as

33:53

about sixty percent increase in my spend, so

33:55

we still got a long ways to go.

33:57

What about the ninety five percent from Southern

33:59

Sixty. So his right? So you

34:01

have to just be careful about

34:03

shortlived controls. So percent change is

34:05

numerator over denominator. Yeah, if you're

34:07

denominator is much smaller than it

34:09

should be, your present change get

34:11

so dramatically over inflated said. So

34:13

then you're saying you get mice

34:15

that are that are engineered to

34:17

die and ninety days more of

34:19

way the or or or because

34:21

of. For. Expense Experimental conditions. Sure

34:24

they were exposed, the toxins are pathogens or

34:26

whatever. The shorten their lifespan so I guess

34:28

I should refrain. That's been fifth, the hit

34:30

the largest. the fact that has been reproducible.

34:32

Inequality experiment is about sixty per second. Video

34:35

I I like that and it's funny. my

34:37

one eighty number we have humans are one

34:39

twenty. I just want to do fifty percent.

34:41

I think about the that's a fantastic oh

34:43

yeah, that's that's where when it comes from

34:45

For me and I know I might not

34:48

make sense, but I don't think it's a

34:50

crazy goal. I think it's a big goal.

34:53

right? I would agree and that's and that's why

34:55

I keep talking about his someone if you'd like

34:57

that's crazy at my i don't think it is.

35:00

It. Might not happen in my life. But.

35:02

I'm going about. It and was made to

35:04

focus. Rs

35:06

and it's fun to talk about right? or a totally

35:08

as. Get back

35:11

to don't One of my questions about

35:13

dogs is. he trying to control

35:15

with the and other stuff. I.

35:17

Have taken my dogs are dog park. The.

35:20

Poop. Added

35:22

control for poop and take. On

35:26

so you believe it or not, that

35:28

is one of the questions on the

35:30

survey. Those are the Dog Aging Project

35:32

Longitudinal Study. Actually, Ah has a Ah

35:35

have a very comprehensive survey tool that

35:37

we used to collect a lot of

35:39

data about the dogs environment, health history

35:41

selves. Indeed, at least one of the

35:44

questions there may be more than one

35:46

Ah addresses whether or not your dog

35:48

consume species Am also. Also.

35:50

Asked about time spent with the dog parts.

35:52

I am with other animal so so we

35:54

really do try to capture that. It's not

35:56

quantitative. We don't ask how much feces does

35:59

your dog consent. Gail.

36:01

But I believe it or not there are. I

36:03

mean there are. There are a huge I'm sure

36:05

you know this right. There are certain dogs that.

36:08

Absolutely love to eat! Poop.

36:10

From other dogs and enter other dogs with

36:12

both such as they my own rocks or

36:15

something right else or is a genetic predisposition

36:17

here as well as deserve a certain breed

36:19

that's more of a puppy dogs I doggedly

36:22

but I don't I don't know the answer

36:24

that I want our beater breeds yeah we

36:26

had a a case on are some people

36:28

call them he sounds that was up to

36:31

peter and for you had a washer like

36:33

a for assessing I don't just me all

36:35

incentive and love to just the up as

36:37

well as a bad next. The other thing

36:40

that's. A great crossover is that people

36:42

who own dogs live longer than people

36:44

don't. Is. That from emotional

36:46

support, energetic support, or like some

36:48

bacterial thing is my files. And

36:50

yeah, I mean I think it

36:52

could certainly be biological. Like, like,

36:54

like you say about the microbiome

36:56

boat and a biological interactions. My

36:58

intuition is that it really more

37:00

is a comes from the sort

37:02

of connection that a lot of

37:05

people get from their dogs are

37:07

we aren't We all know that

37:09

the human connection is really important

37:11

for happiness ah, arm and that

37:13

people who have strong human connection.

37:15

Also, tend to live longer, and I

37:17

absolutely believe that many people can get

37:19

at least some of that connection from

37:22

their companion animals. is also really good

37:24

data that I'm interacting with a dog

37:26

or cat. Believe it or not, Ah

37:28

can have impact on the physiology of

37:30

the person in terms of reducing stress,

37:33

hormones, reducing anxiety, so that's certainly could

37:35

play a role as well. So.

37:39

You don't think that the toxoplasma says

37:41

from cat owners that causes the crazy

37:43

cat lady things real. Again,

37:45

there's probably a genetic predisposition than. Are

37:49

the best Phd answer ever spent his disposal

37:51

of worse loaded for such ever asked the

37:53

guy in a dodgy like a pro Some

37:55

I congratulate. The the other

37:57

difference mean dogs and cats. Is.

38:00

It if you were to passed away unexpectedly,

38:02

the dog will sit next to you and

38:04

starved to death gardening and a towel. your

38:06

eyeballs. To. Say. I.

38:09

Have no direct experience with and I always felt

38:11

like cats. I just you know, if I had

38:13

a choice I would Doc. So it's or guys

38:15

I'm I know that if you have a cat

38:17

right now you're just really trying hard to go

38:19

after the cat. People today? Well. Maybe

38:22

we can do a crossover study with Begins when

38:24

you think of began at Suit and Big Dog

38:26

Food for Longevity. Personally,

38:29

I wouldn't use as a as a Phd. who the

38:31

I would? I wouldn't personally feel that my dog. What

38:35

about feeding people food? ducks? It's

38:37

depends on the people. food. Avoid

38:41

our meeting Big Macs and fries to your

38:43

dog and a regular basis. Probably about a.

38:45

Some. So I go back to my childhood

38:47

we didn't know much and facts in a

38:49

we are in the days of to rid

38:52

of butter and you squeeze margarine and brand

38:54

muffins and it's fine to go get a

38:56

big mac and we would boil hotdogs and

38:58

does boil them in makes hot dogs at

39:00

home and we would give the hotdog water

39:02

to the doctors and they would drink it

39:04

and so there are so bloated like those

39:06

stuff's as the and he's like slick their

39:08

sides and they would make we'd been a

39:11

watery sounds and i went back my thousand

39:13

worse and ever could have done to my

39:15

my for. Dogs are but right but they

39:17

like at his food and I would eat

39:19

it and I was entirely ignorant of the

39:21

effect of the food on my biology which

39:23

was doctor Frank and on the dives of

39:26

for those dogs still of seventeen years that

39:28

of until of homers and like their final

39:30

double years maybe were that comfortable impaired you

39:32

later in life but it seems like. Food.

39:35

Volume in Humans from and twenty five

39:37

years ago. And. Now it did. There's

39:39

something different that may be as worse for pets and

39:41

worse for humans. Do think it's been a change. Was

39:44

clearly been a change. I think there's no

39:46

question that the composition of that the typical

39:49

person is eating in their diet is a

39:51

be surgeon right? And I mean that's just

39:53

as just using a fancy word to say

39:55

something we all know right? Which is that.

39:58

What? People are eating now.

40:00

Drivers towards Obesity. Yeah. And

40:02

all you have to do is look at

40:04

pictures from thirty forty years ago of people

40:07

and this is obvious so exactly what those

40:09

mechanisms are. I think we're starting to learn.

40:11

I think there's been a lot of engineering

40:13

of the food. It's to. On. Get

40:15

people to eat a faster to get people

40:17

to eat it more, Eat more and I'd

40:20

and weathered and that's intentional. Like that is

40:22

intentional engineering. I understand why the food companies

40:24

did it. But. Then there's this this

40:26

additional factor there, which I I don't

40:28

know whether was intentional or not that

40:30

it's associating. So ben people are hungry

40:33

again so they eat faster and more

40:35

and there's a cycle that drives obesity.

40:37

So absolutely their been changes. And

40:39

I think that's a big part of it to. There's.

40:42

Some compounds dad's at that I've written about

40:44

the lot in the logic on the longevity

40:46

fields are paying attention to. Like Ruff my

40:48

son. And he talks about ruff

40:50

bison what is it and should we give it

40:53

to our dogs shirt or it after my. Rights

40:55

a rapper My son is a small molecule that

40:58

was found on easter island which also goes

41:00

by the name Rapa Nui he that for the

41:02

drug it's the same said actually produced by bacteria

41:04

there and the foil and on top of my

41:06

son has a super cool backstories of anybody's interest

41:09

or and you can google at in and find

41:11

it as a lot of Iran my some ferris

41:13

went to the island to go discovered or

41:15

along with your body peter at the area and

41:17

about my real but he beat or the last

41:20

night actually agreed on stage at a for

41:22

him with you that is just it's is weird

41:24

to have someone on. Stage singing can extend

41:26

human life and what was wrong? This is

41:28

my one of my bucket list items. Is

41:30

there to get to I to wrap a

41:32

new and see where it all started. But

41:35

regardless that's where Rapper My Sims first discovered

41:37

and it was initially. Attempted

41:39

to be developed as an anti

41:42

fungal anticancer agent, but the way

41:44

it actually was developed clinically was

41:46

for organ transplant patients as it

41:48

is a a potent ah ah

41:50

anti inflammatory and ah what the

41:52

people inside proliferative drugs. In other

41:54

words, it slows down the cell

41:56

cycle and so is an organ

41:58

transplantation. who's got. A transplanted organ.

42:01

You want to target the immune system

42:03

to prevent it from reacting to that

42:05

origins of her. I was clinically approved

42:07

as an organ transplant dragon called an

42:09

immunosuppressant, and that's how it's been used

42:11

clinically. so as a lot of data,

42:14

Inhuman, you spare. But I think we

42:16

have to recognize those are in people

42:18

who is a reason why they hadn't

42:20

Organ transplant. They're taking high doses of

42:22

Rafa my son, and are taking a

42:25

bunch of others. True immunosuppressant so does

42:27

have some side effects in that context.

42:30

But it sort of got a

42:32

bad reputation clinically because of how

42:34

was used into darkness in parallel.

42:36

really. Around the two thousand, early

42:38

two thousand, several. Labs.

42:40

Independently discovered the you

42:42

could. Treat. East.

42:46

Worms flies like we were talking about with

42:48

rapper my son and increase lifespan. And

42:50

so people started studying what's the mechanism

42:53

there and it turns out rapper my

42:55

son is an inhibitor of a protein

42:57

called him towards yep mechanistic target of

42:59

crap for my son arm and we

43:01

now know from studies. Over. The

43:03

last twenty years that m for his.

43:06

If. Not the most potent, one of the

43:08

most potent knobs that we can turn to

43:10

regulate the rate of aging in laboratory animals.

43:13

And and as we alluded to earlier, there

43:15

was a study I think that really changed

43:17

the game for Ah for my son in

43:19

the longevity field. In two thousand and nine

43:21

From the interventions testing program where they showed

43:24

the you could start treating mice a twenty

43:26

months of age which is about the mouth

43:28

equivalent of a sixty year old person With

43:30

Roger, my son's still get significant effects on

43:32

lifespan and then since then lots of labs

43:35

of showing only can you increase. Lifespan when

43:37

you start treatment in middle age, but

43:39

you can actually improve pretty much every

43:41

metric of aging the people look at,

43:43

and pretty much every tissue in Oregon

43:46

where people study itself. It really seems

43:48

as though Rapper My Son Arms modifies

43:50

the biology of aging. Ah, In

43:53

a way that can increase of lifespan and

43:55

house band again at least and laboratory animals

43:57

and if we have the benefit starting in

43:59

middle age. Emperor's an

44:01

interesting compound because of that research

44:03

back in Two thousand Nine. When.

44:06

I first started the biohacking events and

44:08

I wrote when I'm a early post

44:10

was at a triple down on Him

44:12

tour. And because.

44:15

It works at em in your abuse you can safe

44:17

in this is wrong but the picture out of my

44:19

answer me or papers that a kind words like a

44:21

spring. you want to suppress it but when the more

44:23

you suppress it the more it's been a spike when

44:25

you on suppress it. So. That

44:27

Three big things I could find back

44:29

then that we're going to suppress him

44:32

toward temporarily work fasting and coffee. And

44:34

weight bearing exercise. Simple. Less

44:37

funny, drink coffee.has the end of

44:39

the fast and then eat a

44:41

meal with protein and carbs because

44:43

carbs reason for of ten times

44:45

more than protein right? I'm.

44:48

So insulin genotypes right? So I actually think this

44:50

is where there's a lot of confusion out there.

44:52

Some most people would say it's the protein adding

44:54

they are using it because I don't I don't

44:56

know the answer to that right? and I think

44:58

it depends on where you luck is the honest

45:00

on audience. I think it depends on the tissue

45:02

the you're looking and bites it is absolutely. Massively

45:05

oversimplistic to say that it's that it's

45:07

only amino acids but activate him, but

45:10

you'll get your see that all the

45:12

time. It's something that I'll say i'm

45:14

I'd probably went sixty percent to find

45:16

that direction. My longevity book. Because.

45:19

I wrote about in zero point six

45:21

grams of protein per pound of body

45:23

weight and there's a bunch of studies

45:25

that supports as a but most of

45:27

America's miss signing and trip to fan

45:29

and other things that increase him for

45:31

and if you want to look good

45:33

you need him to because that's how

45:35

muscle rail the you don't want search

45:37

opinion, you don't want a bomb us

45:39

I am Absurdly dense bones and. You.

45:41

Have relatively high amount of skeletal muscle mass

45:43

a while at all my qualified stuff so.

45:46

If. I drop my hims words you might I. The

45:48

only I could he would be sad because

45:51

carbs raise it and protein raises it from

45:53

animals. But I could eat brown rice, protein

45:55

full, arsenic and stuff. but it's it's biological.

45:57

they'll those years so low I need twice

45:59

as. Much of it fired

46:01

eating industrial process a. Plant.

46:04

Protein. Huge amounts of them starting all the time

46:06

in having all the gifts businesses in a way

46:08

of life. is she? There is yes ability to

46:11

do it. So what's where did you end up

46:13

on? That's again I'm for us so get sucked.

46:15

So I think those are actually two different questions.

46:17

Get as I think M for on. First.

46:20

Of all you'd I'm not convinced that that

46:22

getting him for as low as you possibly

46:24

can is radiance if there's an optimum to

46:26

everything's But I also think that. We

46:30

need to recognize that bet M for cycles

46:32

like many other molecules in her body in

46:34

terms of active house and are natural cycles

46:36

and of him tor activity that are different

46:38

in different tissues, different organs and the optimal

46:40

level of him for is probably going to

46:43

be different in different tissues and organs. You

46:45

talked about muscle. We know that in order

46:47

to build new muscle in a doctor beta

46:49

amateur right. So the optimal level of them for

46:51

in your skeletal muscle may be different than the

46:53

optimal level of them are in your kidney or

46:56

your brains and we just don't know the i

46:58

think this is gets back to how little we

47:00

know so stirs the way I think about. I

47:02

think we know that I'm. A

47:05

dietary. Protein. Again,

47:08

This is challenging to the depends on what else you

47:10

he has a what kind of data of her the

47:12

absolutely but I think. It's

47:15

if. You look at people who are eating

47:17

a high quality diet, I think in general

47:19

this is my perspective of the literature as

47:21

it exists. A higher relative

47:23

amount of dietary protein in combination

47:26

with resistance training is a very

47:28

good strategy guess or. Maintaining.

47:30

And growing muscle mass as you get older

47:33

and bone density and by Jackson mentor. next

47:35

lot of people only think about muscles but

47:37

if your bones are trapped second a matter

47:39

how much that's a huge shots So they

47:42

think this is actually really really important and

47:44

and I worry that this against you get

47:46

some people out there who simplistically think about

47:48

him for and their lives would just don't

47:51

need protein low proteins goods I do I

47:53

worry were misleading people it's destructive to to

47:55

be I'm a pretty sight over the last

47:58

three years now. I'm I. Has

48:00

said the. Point. Six

48:02

Two Point Eight Grams said. you

48:05

know, I. Think it has to be

48:07

nonsense. Because of this

48:09

carbs vs. Protein. Thing. As

48:12

I've been doing reliably one gram

48:14

per pound the body way of our

48:16

little bit more ends I also looked

48:18

at my agent. And.

48:21

The. Last, or at the end of

48:23

my point Six, Two Point Eight kind of

48:25

things are based on my lunch. Every book

48:27

I was at Point Six Nine for my

48:30

rate of aging. and it was our Jos

48:32

Mar Diverse. Not doubt if I didn't he

48:34

didn't ace or yeah, exactly did in place.

48:36

It's part of the true age or mode.

48:38

My audience muslim her the episode on the

48:40

trades tests to just have a guy like

48:42

hey, i need a metric is better than

48:45

Zealanders and ever twenty other metrics for aging

48:47

and I'm tracking him from giving posts on

48:49

that that I've done this. insight. The pulse

48:51

waves. And p Three hundred d I got

48:53

all kinds of things that are like correlated

48:55

with Aids shudder know cause it. but they

48:57

so is the ultimate output of your system

48:59

like a young person old percent. So.

49:03

I'm looking at all that. After

49:06

three years of. Absurdly high

49:08

your two hundred grams animal protein every

49:10

day. My rate of aging is point

49:12

seven to which is the same as

49:14

Brand Johnson's on his non vegan diet

49:17

as is even twenty grams a causing

49:19

protein everyday which comes from casts so

49:21

I have no idea of friends on

49:23

are in a camp. I completely ignore

49:25

that whole thing i actually i interviewed

49:27

rate is is he's a very funny

49:29

person that the to to talk with

49:31

as his so unusual death as when

49:34

when I read i'm not trying to

49:36

bash what I liked the fact. That

49:38

he is making his data available to people

49:40

are yeah that's great I I I just

49:42

it's there's a lot of noise or our

49:44

borders on noise and also in a were

49:46

all by was the unique and so that

49:48

like for me. I. Haven't.

49:51

Published. My list of one hundred and fifty supplements and

49:53

I just. As and the reason for that

49:55

is that I don't people coughing. I have people who

49:57

worship the ground I walk. I think I could use.

50:00

It's like I a knowledgeable guy

50:02

and I'm inspirational that stuff. But.

50:04

You. Didn't use way three pounds, have auto

50:06

immune conditions and all the weird stuff that I

50:08

did. and you don't need excessive amounts of be

50:11

sex and zinc and biotin genetically the way I

50:13

do such. he do it I do. You'll probably

50:15

at best shit your pants and at worst you'll

50:17

feel like crap for a couple weeks ago. so

50:20

we have to customize the sea and I'm working

50:22

on tools for him. but. The enemy

50:24

must see the senior and after of

50:26

suspense because him some people come in.

50:28

This person does need a couple things

50:30

so I don't want to do what

50:32

a guru doesn't want to do. What

50:34

we are do the things the guru

50:36

does for the reasons the girl does

50:38

them. And yeah and and one of

50:40

the things but I I'll I like

50:42

to emphasize is whenever possible I think

50:44

biomarkers are where it's out. Yeah for

50:46

sure. And whenever possible, measure, intervene and

50:48

measure again. In other words, you want

50:51

to know where you're at. You wanna

50:53

know whether whatever the intervention. Is that

50:55

you're doing is working and and and you

50:57

wanna get yourself into what we think is

50:59

the optimal range and too many people I

51:01

think just starts randomly doing stuff they don't

51:04

ever measure in the first place. Yeah right

51:06

and eight and I think that's that's something

51:08

that I'm. sayin'

51:10

Can be okay but it also get in trouble. It

51:13

can and also look if you have very

51:15

little money. Taking vitamin

51:18

dates and the ha any.

51:21

Is probably better. Than. Not

51:23

doing anything even if you don't have a blood test.

51:25

surf like. But the blood tests are not

51:27

that expensive. So again this is this is I think

51:29

oh than. Half of households in

51:31

the was don't have a thousand dollars

51:33

to spend on emerge as expenses right

51:35

now. like Biden has stripped our currency

51:37

by just printing a lot of dollars

51:40

so wrote some people assisted. All right

51:42

I'm detest really is a lot surf

51:44

and so if it's intellectual singer in

51:46

that situation right now in their the

51:48

single from any supplements versus the quality

51:50

of my beef. So. It's it's

51:52

like yeah hire their don't get the test and do

51:54

the lowest cost thing as likely to move the needle

51:56

and hope but I sure want to get the

51:58

tests as as I think. They're located the

52:00

I'm I think we could go down a

52:03

whole rabbit hole on healthcare disparities, of which

52:05

there are many and they are real and

52:07

it sucks. that's the reality of the world

52:09

we live in. A Yes. If you absolutely

52:12

cannot afford the task, you're probably better off

52:14

being probabilistic and saying there's a chance. good

52:16

chance I'm deficient. Take the supplement. Yeah.

52:19

I think a lot of people who claim

52:21

they can't afford the test actually don't know

52:23

how much as costs and could stop going

52:25

to Starbucks and getting their ten dollar coffee

52:27

of the i just serve as guess you

52:29

just have to drinks or a night a

52:31

week and you'll be fine. I agree with

52:33

you people allocating to for anyone who around

52:35

my to the Dodger real we are Iran

52:37

You're a broad spectrum of longevity guy so

52:39

I'm having fun with use. Of such

52:41

me about triads Yes, so ah

52:43

so it's a rapper Mice And

52:46

we know from the ah, preclinical

52:48

literature in laboratory animals, it seems

52:50

to affect biological aging crossed the

52:52

evolutionary spectrum and it occurred to

52:54

me again, this is probably two

52:56

thousand and thirteen. Two thousand and

52:58

fourteen said that there were actually

53:00

several things we knew that increase

53:02

lifespan and else been in mice

53:04

and. Those things almost certainly

53:06

would work in. Stocks. And

53:08

I've been a dog person my entire

53:11

life and I suddenly realized holy crap.

53:13

I could probably extend the life span

53:15

of my dog and other people's dogs.

53:17

Yes, But we need a way to

53:19

actually tested. And so that's how Triad

53:22

evolved was. As really, I'm an effort

53:24

to do a rigorous double blind placebo

53:26

controlled clinical trial in dogs to answer

53:28

the question. Does Rapper my son increase

53:30

lifespan and improve health been metrics in

53:33

dogs? And so we designed the trial.

53:35

It took about. Took. About five

53:37

years to get funding to actually do

53:39

that trial. and then we started in

53:41

Rolling Dogs And it's happening right now.

53:44

Any preliminary did a teacher? Yeah, so

53:46

we've we've done to ah what we've

53:48

really ah thought of the safety trials

53:51

to these were shorter term so what?

53:53

The first one was ten weeks, the

53:55

second one was six months. Ah, again.

53:57

randomized double blind, placebo controlled and so

53:59

few things I can say with certainty

54:01

so we did not see any significant

54:03

adverse events in any of the trials

54:06

to date, so we're pretty confident their

54:08

proper my son at least at the

54:10

doses were testing can be used safely

54:12

in dogs. are we found. Statistically,

54:15

Significant improvements in to measures of

54:17

age related heart function or less

54:19

centric killer function that was done

54:21

by echocardiograms in the rap of

54:23

mice and treated dogs compared to

54:25

placebo and in both trials are

54:27

there were increases in owner reported

54:29

activities of little bit weaker kind

54:32

of data is this was owner

54:34

recounted but. Again, the owners were

54:36

blinded they didn't have a dog was

54:38

getting rough meissner placebo so I think

54:40

we again with we pretty confident about

54:42

safety and there's some evidence for improvements.

54:45

I don't know anything about the outcomes

54:47

from a big trial now from Triad

54:49

because that trial is still blinded. On

54:52

a website you guys designed to detect

54:54

and nine percent change them I spent

54:56

yeah so it was originally designed to

54:58

detect a fifteen percent change and lifespan

55:00

that was two hundred and thirty dogs

55:02

and then ah ah, few years ago

55:04

a group of our donors came together

55:06

peter to actually put this together so

55:09

arm along with embarrassed and a couple

55:11

of others to increase the size of

55:13

the study to five hundred and eighty

55:15

dollars worth of gives us the nine

55:17

percent direct. So. Forty

55:19

two hundred and ten pounds you based on big

55:21

dogs at least seven years old, but about guys

55:23

who like. Little. Dogs who think

55:25

they're big death so his gets back

55:27

to the idea that. Big.

55:30

Dogs age faster than small box did so

55:32

in order to have. That. Statistical

55:34

Power. Ah, We needed

55:36

to have dogs that were aging more rapidly

55:39

and already in middle age in order to

55:41

be able to see ah as an effect

55:43

on lifespan within the for your window of

55:45

the trial. Okay, cool. Or.

55:48

Rights. And human secure up

55:50

my son them have done it on and off.

55:52

Do tiger? I. Am right now.

55:54

Yeah, so I've been. I tend to

55:56

cycle rapper, my son a I've done,

55:58

and typically ten or. Last week cycles

56:00

and I'm honestly pretty non scientific about

56:03

it. I i I take it when

56:05

I feel like it or winds were.

56:07

You know things in my life are

56:09

lining up but I'm I've I've done

56:11

six milligrams of weeks and milligrams a

56:14

week. Eight milligrams of weeks a sort

56:16

of in that range. The first time

56:18

I ever have brought the my son

56:20

was because ah I was having of

56:22

have some very severe shoulder paints and

56:25

after a long. Drawn. Out

56:27

process started diagnosed as frozen shoulder

56:29

or already sub that's light rail

56:31

inflammation the shoulder capsule the doc.

56:33

Lily said there wasn't much that he wanted

56:36

to do so much as and or go

56:38

back seat so that the physical therapy in

56:40

of my go away any her and I

56:42

was just you know I was. I was

56:44

horrified by that. They couldn't sleep for a

56:46

bar with my kids and I started thinking

56:48

you know I know about and have something

56:50

that is really good knocking down age related

56:52

information. So I set up my own and

56:54

of one experiments. ah six milligrams weeks and

56:56

I had you know I plan from the

56:59

very beginning but I would give it ten

57:01

weeks and see what happens and within a

57:03

couple weeks are. There was a. Very. Significant

57:05

reduction in pains and by the end

57:07

of the ten weeks I'd say ninety

57:09

five percent range of motion. almost no

57:11

payments as an come back. so for

57:13

me it was a very important item.

57:15

Follow the of life changing their experience.

57:18

It. Drives me nuts because as a bias

57:20

or masuda like while. Of the

57:22

tried shockwaves of a said it was

57:24

Ozone was his very cheap city. Two

57:26

hundred bucks and surprising evidence for that.

57:29

and then have they done. Either

57:31

dissection. have they done. All

57:34

the stem cell things you could do or

57:36

just exosomes and has all these things that

57:39

don't take a year that affect called his

57:41

wife and but all of those except maybe

57:43

ozone are more expensive than rats says you

57:45

can knock it down with. I'm.

57:48

All over that. I. Notice when

57:50

I went above six. The. Lights

57:53

And because it's immunosuppressant, I tended to

57:55

get more colds and things like that.

57:57

I typically don't get some. Ralph an

57:59

idea of. Robust now I used to get him

58:01

all the time and I was younger. But.

58:04

Ah, So I guess that there's a

58:06

dance there. They have to do best science

58:08

You know, the states of your mast cells

58:10

without a long coat factory, a mold exposure

58:12

like. I think there's a lot of individual

58:15

variation just in both uptake of Rapper my

58:17

son and the rate at which it is

58:19

cleared. So we know that Rapper my son

58:21

is metabolized by something called the Site A

58:23

from T Four Fifty Family which is also

58:25

involved in a lot of drug metabolism. Some

58:27

people are just after metabolizes than others cause

58:29

I think there's a fair and this is

58:31

where unfortunately we just don't have much good

58:33

data. A hand. On individual sort of

58:36

responses to off label use of

58:38

wrap my since. I.

58:40

Have a question about the dog. Say that just

58:43

popped into my head: Are you tracking whether the

58:45

owner of the dog is a couple versus a

58:47

man versus a woman? And

58:49

that's a good question. Ah I'm

58:51

so so I think the the

58:54

answer is yes but in indirectly

58:56

so we do get information about

58:58

ah. Number. Of people in

59:00

the house. Oh okay so we get

59:02

both number of adults, number of kids

59:04

and other animals. I don't think we

59:06

ask ever about ah you know spousal

59:09

relationship rating like that, any of our

59:11

or did his forward sex or the

59:13

keep on thinking about oh yeah we

59:15

get that. Death is it? Be

59:17

a single look at whether there's. There's.

59:20

Any information that. Because.

59:22

You might assume the studies that show

59:24

when a woman feeds the lab mice

59:26

they get an entire right and stress

59:29

yeah and handedly there's this pheromone been

59:31

going on has super super interesting there.

59:34

For. That matter to if a woman in the house with a dog.

59:36

Is. On birth control vs not on birth control.

59:39

With what's. Going on at

59:41

with the confounding variables we just don't

59:43

know about. A I

59:45

should solve that for us

59:47

and about three years are

59:49

very optimistic. Oh is it

59:51

said my my feals, computer

59:53

science death rates and said

59:55

understanding exponential growth. We

59:57

still don't think of it was humans with

1:00:00

this is an exponential This is an exponential

1:00:02

of an exponential right now. So when you

1:00:04

go really deep on that stuff you just

1:00:06

realize it was really different. I know my

1:00:09

or about going forward now. I'm

1:00:11

pretty sure we'll both have jobs and I'm

1:00:13

pretty sure the next year we'll both be

1:00:16

sitting at home and a look like were

1:00:18

in an interview. And here I mean as

1:00:20

the suffered coming as crazy I am in

1:00:22

the. The very late stages

1:00:25

of creating an Ai that has

1:00:27

every word I've ever spoken, every

1:00:29

every research paper I've ever used,

1:00:31

and all of my bucks. Mrs.

1:00:34

Twelve hundred interviews on my show and

1:00:36

for the another thousand other people says

1:00:38

and on. along with

1:00:40

a bunch of other research. So.

1:00:43

That when she will come ever do a Dave

1:00:45

doesn't know enough he would They would recommend. right?

1:00:48

Based on all these, enter A is what

1:00:50

we did, guess recommend and then it's even

1:00:52

down to the point of saying well. How

1:00:55

much. Energy Do you have? To.

1:00:58

Invest. Like I'm. A suffering A

1:01:00

willing to endure a record somethings are harder

1:01:02

than others I am has happened your bone

1:01:04

marrow the way I did a couple times

1:01:06

probably not and then how much. Time.

1:01:09

Are and how much money I wanted to button.

1:01:12

And. What is your goal? So. That's.

1:01:14

Ultimately were held span and life extension and

1:01:16

I'm if he goes a healthy health span

1:01:18

and you want to look a certain way.

1:01:22

Your. Recommendations are gonna be different than

1:01:24

someone as as I don't care how I look made

1:01:26

me live twice as long. right? Or

1:01:28

I went to be. You know, I won't be

1:01:30

the brain from Pinky in the band. Okay

1:01:33

like totally different set of of supplements

1:01:35

and totally if I think we're there

1:01:37

with our knowledge but our village of

1:01:39

filter and sort the knowledge. I'm.

1:01:41

Ask you if you for and I don't

1:01:44

I know your eyes I think I think

1:01:46

you've got him. He that more confidence in

1:01:48

the quality of the data that's out there

1:01:50

than than I do I am. I have

1:01:53

done enough. Ah. Scientific.

1:01:55

Research in a lab and seen

1:01:57

enough. Data. From

1:01:59

either the people to be pretty skeptical

1:02:01

about the quality of a lot of

1:02:03

the data that we've got into, my

1:02:05

worry is the yes and a I

1:02:07

could come the answers based on those

1:02:09

days that's particularly the right answers. Or.

1:02:12

So we actually agree violently on

1:02:14

that one. Of the

1:02:16

was was it Thus Chief of the

1:02:18

British Medical Journal de said we've reached

1:02:21

the crisis points. You cannot reproduce most

1:02:23

of the studies that are out there

1:02:25

because of corruption. Yeah. "I don't know

1:02:27

this because of corruption that I would push back

1:02:29

on my way, advising that", Parvati says, because a

1:02:32

special interests. As there's all sorts

1:02:34

of reasons why there's noise in the scientific

1:02:36

literature, there's some heroes you know question about

1:02:38

it. I'm some of it is just the

1:02:40

biology. So complicated. That said, you know. The.

1:02:43

End: The effect sizes are within the margin

1:02:45

of error. There's a lot of bad statistic

1:02:47

area and there's some just you know bad

1:02:49

training. I mean that he i see this

1:02:51

in my field are you can? You can

1:02:54

follow people who were who are not trained

1:02:56

to do rigorous science, don't do controls who

1:02:58

intentionally misinterpret or still even realize they're intentionally

1:03:00

doing it. They've been trained to lead our

1:03:02

data that doesn't fit the model. I think

1:03:05

there's a lot of reasons it's not. It's

1:03:07

not intentional corruption in many cases of the

1:03:09

hundred years older than same. It's.

1:03:11

It's also to human biases. In other, the

1:03:13

Journal of of Failure is essentially what we

1:03:15

need in as if you have a working

1:03:18

on as a here's all those studies that

1:03:20

didn't work out there wouldn't be published so

1:03:22

we could know it doesn't work. Rights that

1:03:24

yeah that that would be extremely valuable. I

1:03:26

think if we could somehow capture all of

1:03:28

that data in one place and then you're

1:03:30

than I would agree with you. then the

1:03:33

computational approaches. the new ai tools could in

1:03:35

fact very that data and I think even

1:03:37

if there's a lot of noise if you've

1:03:39

got a large and of dataset these. Tools

1:03:41

can tease out the signal or yeah,

1:03:43

my worry is that said, At

1:03:46

this point. There's. So

1:03:48

much in there, that's that's just not rights.

1:03:51

Of you're going to end up at wrong

1:03:53

answers. Oh now you said something in there

1:03:55

a little nugget as behind his. From the

1:03:57

main reasons that I started the balance and

1:03:59

movements. If you have a large enough

1:04:01

set of data, Your. Gets the truth?

1:04:04

So. The reason I'm happy about

1:04:06

a eyes ability to is not that a

1:04:08

eyes gonna believe half the garbage that others

1:04:10

may I I actually only train it was

1:04:12

studies that meet my standards are I saw

1:04:15

my overweight, the ones that actually makes sense

1:04:17

within all the framework for working and are

1:04:19

you sending have my i'm biased but like

1:04:21

my bias and my results are going okay

1:04:23

fine. maybe my biases better than someone elses

1:04:25

are not right sir So I'll end up

1:04:27

in this world. We are competing sets of

1:04:29

data and you know what he might have.

1:04:31

You know you have your Optus Can set

1:04:33

of of data in principles. And recommendations and

1:04:35

you're a I. So here's what we do. yes

1:04:38

and then you get fitter to I just need

1:04:40

a eyes I just exercise more and is subtle

1:04:42

you can do I stop. Thousand feet are. It

1:04:46

is. It's a it's it's it's so

1:04:48

fun a way. Yeah, I'm teasing him

1:04:50

as his pants as address that and

1:04:52

to go to figure if these are

1:04:54

the most controversial things aren't but he's

1:04:56

going to have his own. think they'll

1:04:58

be rates while young for and doesn't

1:05:00

use testosterone buds. recommends it for if

1:05:02

you've lived on testosterone says I was

1:05:04

twenty six. Because my loves are lower than

1:05:06

my mom seem like a good idea. So. In

1:05:09

are you You go through. I'm. All

1:05:11

these recommendations and you're going to have like these

1:05:13

Radical league and doctors. And. Okay,

1:05:15

we all have our ability to

1:05:17

make recommendations based on our perceptions

1:05:19

and our analysis of what science

1:05:21

is. quote real. And.

1:05:23

Then. The. Eyes of you can

1:05:26

tell them hey. Find. All

1:05:28

the studies that are in your training data.

1:05:30

That don't match with each other. right?

1:05:33

And then let's understand the mechanisms behind it

1:05:35

and and it's already keyboard doing that. I've

1:05:38

worked with Chat Gb for which is not

1:05:40

a great A I. Am

1:05:42

to design a new molecule, do something similar.

1:05:44

Incidents like this is presiding have a

1:05:46

manufactured decide. And. Lot of projects on

1:05:48

my place but now I know how to do it. And

1:05:51

again, this is incredible. So. I'm.

1:05:54

Very hopeful and. My. Only

1:05:56

concern is that we're going to just train them

1:05:58

to like take money from other people. They could

1:06:00

handsome other people and kill people we don't like. That.

1:06:03

Would be wrong. So I'm working

1:06:05

on on that side of making

1:06:07

a I about human flourishing along

1:06:09

with a I forcing and set

1:06:11

of like zoom in power yeah

1:06:13

I at that's a fantastic idea

1:06:15

and I align completely. With them. Or

1:06:17

and and I believe it's going to make your job

1:06:19

as a Phd researcher and. Ceo. Of Optus

1:06:21

can. Easy on to that end.

1:06:24

sees it as they are. Not only

1:06:26

was he provides a fan I gotta

1:06:28

say for some reason as to where

1:06:30

their nine when I say them I

1:06:32

saw though a retinal scans I think

1:06:35

are super interesting data tie for health

1:06:37

plan and m essentially longevity prevention. Think

1:06:39

your webcam an exact science camera on

1:06:41

your eyes. it's and and hops. I

1:06:44

have a Viking so we agree on

1:06:46

that. f disturb the ease and regularity

1:06:48

of of the way your eyes sweep.

1:06:51

Tells you so much about the nurses and a

1:06:53

mother's a lot of and stuff there it you

1:06:55

know the good stuff and you also know about.

1:06:58

Or something called the Million Molecule Challenge,

1:07:00

which I'm a big fan of. Tell

1:07:02

me what you're doing with us, right?

1:07:04

So this, the goal of the Million

1:07:06

Molecule Challenge is very simple. It's to

1:07:09

test a million interventions. On

1:07:11

longevity. using. The

1:07:13

he muttered see Elegans as our starting

1:07:15

point and the reason for this I

1:07:18

think for spot in my mind it's

1:07:20

obvious rates since we have only explored

1:07:22

a tiny fraction of the intervention space

1:07:24

and we are absolutely going to find

1:07:26

a whole bunch of extremely cool large

1:07:28

effect size stuff if we if we

1:07:30

screen a million interventions But there's a

1:07:32

bigger reason for this which is that

1:07:34

in my view the field unfortunately has

1:07:36

no actually narrowed over the last. Fifteen.

1:07:39

Years instead of expanded and I think

1:07:41

the hallmarks of aging which I like

1:07:43

as a as an artificial construct have

1:07:45

contributed to this of the hallmarks of

1:07:47

Asia know you know But in case

1:07:49

and as you're fine if your viewers

1:07:51

dance of our a set of originally

1:07:54

nine now twelve ah. Aspects

1:07:56

of biological aging that a group of

1:07:58

people in the field have. Settled

1:08:00

On has beings the core mechanistic features

1:08:02

of aging. Yeah, and they include things

1:08:04

like your favorite ceiling, your songwriting, right?

1:08:06

Ah, Senescence cells, mitochondrial dysfunction, deregulated Deterrence

1:08:08

haggling. I could probably get ten other

1:08:10

my back and I'm on a cellular.

1:08:12

Have signed up selling Sailor sit Down

1:08:14

loss of stem cell Volume idea There's

1:08:16

there's the friendly one is by Isis

1:08:18

right? Are armed with the other day

1:08:20

and that bush didn't exist when when

1:08:22

I read my book. add seven and

1:08:24

I was in and nine and twelve

1:08:26

and of have eating next year, right?

1:08:28

So that's the point though is that

1:08:30

I think the. The.

1:08:32

Adoption of the hallmarks of so broadly

1:08:35

by the field as sort of forced

1:08:37

people to think about their research within

1:08:39

that context and and it's become very

1:08:41

very difficult for people to think outside

1:08:44

of the hallmark or maybe more importantly

1:08:46

get funded to do research outside of

1:08:48

the hallmarks. And so consequence of that

1:08:51

is nobody is really doing the the

1:08:53

large scale discovery science at this point.

1:08:55

The find? What don't we know that's

1:08:57

really the of the point of the

1:09:00

million Molecule challenge is to say okay.

1:09:02

Let's not pretend like we completely understand the

1:09:04

biology of aging. Let's go find out what

1:09:07

we don't understand any And and in my

1:09:09

view, if we're going to do, that's the

1:09:11

thing you want to do is you want

1:09:13

to be able to look at scale So

1:09:15

you need technology that allows you to look

1:09:18

for interventions that have a big effect at

1:09:20

scale. and we've created that's and you probably

1:09:22

want to use lifespan as the and point

1:09:24

you're looking for because that is what we're

1:09:27

most interested. or I thought you can extend

1:09:29

lifespan. You can absolutely extend my stone

1:09:31

self feeder. Offensiveness

1:09:33

a bit. As Habitats Nanny left at,

1:09:36

we've been able to successfully extend lifespan

1:09:38

in every animal where we've tried. There's

1:09:40

no reason to think humans earn enough

1:09:43

know you created something called the warm

1:09:45

Bots guess which makes me happy and

1:09:47

and listeners might remember at a company

1:09:50

behind a peptide called O S a

1:09:52

one that apparently reverses. I'm

1:09:54

so aging and skin. And

1:09:57

they look at some in like six

1:09:59

hundred. a dick. It's potential interventions using

1:10:01

skin on a chip basically to figure

1:10:03

out what works. So one relatively small

1:10:05

company looked at six hundred things and

1:10:07

found one that Wordpress and you're single.

1:10:10

All of the companies here and you're

1:10:12

providing the tools as warm bought right

1:10:14

is essentially the. I guess

1:10:16

there's some biology. From. Eamon Toads

1:10:18

on a chip because the we're not over

1:10:20

there were bodies actually doesn't involve a chip

1:10:22

it all Am. So this is this is

1:10:24

using kind of the standard as is currently

1:10:26

the standard conditions people have always used for

1:10:28

aging studies and more of these are nematode

1:10:31

worms are about a millimeter and size a

1:10:33

tiny crawling around on the surface of a

1:10:35

plate and the he bacterias their food itself.

1:10:37

In the old days people had to sit

1:10:39

microscope right and and in fact I'm As

1:10:41

the worms get older they slow down some

1:10:43

kind of funny you actually use a wire

1:10:45

pack and you tap I'm on the head

1:10:47

see personal. Life of it's like hitting a

1:10:49

person with a telephone pole says he

1:10:51

first officer for and or and better.

1:10:53

Oh my gosh. Yes, it's extremely time

1:10:55

intensive. So we just created a robot

1:10:57

that has a camera attached to it

1:10:59

and it down pictures of the worms

1:11:01

over their entire lifespan every ten minutes

1:11:03

and then we use a I to

1:11:05

interpret those picture. Young fellas are the

1:11:07

worm still moving? If so, how much,

1:11:09

how fast are they still live with

1:11:11

all automated So it takes us from

1:11:13

being able to do you know, a

1:11:15

couple dozen experiments in a year to.

1:11:18

A couple hundred thousand in a year and

1:11:20

it's sort of infinitely scale level. So you

1:11:22

know a million is just a big numbers.

1:11:25

There's no reason you couldn't do five million

1:11:27

or ten million almost as a caster avenue

1:11:29

on. but. Yeah so the word

1:11:31

that itself obsessively only takes a few hundred

1:11:34

dollars to build and parts. obviously there's people

1:11:36

required to do at Spit. The ai tools

1:11:38

are a little bit more sophisticated but it's

1:11:40

nothing that are computer science Major film for

1:11:43

do since I get out a quarter million

1:11:45

bucks. For. Do the familiar molecule challenge

1:11:47

is to to build alveolar bone or out

1:11:49

of my living room like I said you

1:11:51

wanted if you wanted to build a warm

1:11:53

bath factory which is what? So this is

1:11:55

so we didn't talk about this. Aura Biomedical

1:11:57

is the company will out of my lab

1:11:59

or. It up. It's the rapid new he

1:12:01

word for health and vitality. So ah is.

1:12:04

the company was been out of my lab

1:12:06

to do this at scale and so the

1:12:08

goal there is to build up an army

1:12:10

of about forty warm bots and use that

1:12:12

army to assess the effect of a million

1:12:15

interventions on longevity. It if you made a

1:12:17

teacher the said worm bought army, I would

1:12:19

take fifty bucks for it to support a

1:12:21

resurgence. And it's infests. Maybe that's

1:12:23

what we should do. So if people are

1:12:25

interested in learning more Ah, you can go

1:12:27

to the or a biomedical website. There's a

1:12:29

a video there were I talk about this

1:12:32

will have it more details. You can also

1:12:34

actually sponsor and intervention so we have a

1:12:36

leaderboard. I don't know if it's up the

1:12:38

and I think it's now up where people

1:12:40

can sponsor interventions. You can pick your own.

1:12:42

Or. You can just let the

1:12:44

let the computer randomly pick them for you

1:12:47

and then you get your data back right?

1:12:49

And so the goal here is actually to

1:12:51

do a service for the field even though

1:12:53

it's a for profit company. The goal is

1:12:56

to create a database of at least tens

1:12:58

of thousands of interventions that people have sponsored

1:13:00

to make that open access so that people

1:13:02

can use the Ai tools, the query that

1:13:05

database and find new things right? So the

1:13:07

i think there's just so much potential here

1:13:09

is so forth. Yeah, that's a contribution to

1:13:11

the field, absolutely way I. Thank you for

1:13:13

doing this. I believe me This is a source

1:13:16

of immense frustration to me as I tried hard

1:13:18

to get this funded on the academic sides and

1:13:20

just couldn't do it as and finally got two

1:13:22

point where I was so frustrated and I'm like

1:13:24

okay we gotta take this outside of academia or

1:13:27

it's never going to happen. Well.

1:13:29

I'm I'm just thinking I would.

1:13:31

Definitely Fun dumb glyphosate. As.

1:13:33

A as of course of as you know it's

1:13:35

very negative effects that might be useful to honestly

1:13:37

I didn't are arguments are A for something that

1:13:39

set us up the I'll tell you A A

1:13:42

an interesting out of the internet it's kind of

1:13:44

amusing to us Silver we first started doing we

1:13:46

felt the were bought in my lab at the

1:13:48

University Washington We first started doing a little bit

1:13:50

as as a screening and of course we fighting

1:13:52

the shirt my spend with my more things the

1:13:54

Jeff my spend the expense of of first things

1:13:56

that we found we were looking at some Ft

1:13:58

approved drugs and this is. Actually, probably Twenty

1:14:01

Twenty One may be, so we're kind

1:14:03

of still a nurse in the I

1:14:05

have an eighteen pandemic. might even been

1:14:07

Twenty Twenty effective. It was because it

1:14:10

was before it was before the election

1:14:12

arms and I. We. Found this

1:14:14

thing. Shortened lifespan like half a day. That

1:14:17

it's and it was I ever met and and where

1:14:19

I. Have had that in

1:14:21

this time I spent several back for name

1:14:23

is hazardous Flexibility would actually run for it.

1:14:25

So we're going to own the market on

1:14:27

entitlement that drugs right are going to find

1:14:29

all sorts of stuff. the certain less than

1:14:31

and worms. I was laughing because I am

1:14:33

a sheep farmer. And. We have

1:14:36

a bunch of i've imagined you give it

1:14:38

to the see because the names are making

1:14:40

sorry exactly about yes. So it was actually

1:14:42

a nice of for positive control that we

1:14:44

had in there and of groceries enough to

1:14:46

enter the land of controversy right eye on

1:14:48

Iran as they can do. I have to

1:14:50

publish a paper that says that I ever

1:14:52

met in extend lifespan inflows aging that would

1:14:54

be on since it would have made headlines.

1:14:56

I ride Cymbal knows if is that. I

1:14:58

do know some people who believe it probably

1:15:00

does most likely by reducing the effect of

1:15:02

parasites. have no surprise that I mean again

1:15:04

that's possible. I'm certainly not recommending

1:15:06

people's are taking adamant I I think sin

1:15:08

binned as old as a much better drug

1:15:10

for that censor as their longevity I am

1:15:12

fed every three months I do a courses

1:15:14

and been is odd because. Before.

1:15:17

You get to the seven, nine,

1:15:19

or twelve hallmarks of aging he

1:15:21

gets. Don't Die. And. If

1:15:24

you look at the big four killers, that's

1:15:26

what I call him of others on four

1:15:28

pillars. By some it's cancer, is one of

1:15:30

the big four and or. It

1:15:33

looks like and benzoyl has a very meaningful

1:15:35

reduction in cancer in humans but it is

1:15:37

an anti parasitic for dogs. is not a

1:15:39

for for him and Sam I I I

1:15:41

should go back and look I know that

1:15:43

so I personally sponsored a bunch of molecules

1:15:46

and I know send vendors all was one

1:15:48

of them but I think it was in

1:15:50

combination with something else. You know all the

1:15:52

cool sufficient have that data. Yeah a digital

1:15:54

photography because sometimes people come in and they're

1:15:57

not Pc researchers argue I'm not a B

1:15:59

C researcher. Researcher by perhaps Hd researchers

1:16:01

are overrated. believe me. spell it as a

1:16:03

what's what's research but it's it's cause you

1:16:05

know the little corners where as in I

1:16:08

wouldn't I wouldn't expect most people do that

1:16:10

as because you're working with a really three

1:16:12

different of the most important markers. You're looking

1:16:14

at the early stage which is nematodes and

1:16:16

then you're looking at dogs and you were

1:16:19

going to be will intercept active projects and

1:16:21

each one. So I think you have a

1:16:23

different view than almost anyone I've met. I've

1:16:25

made a a a dedicated effort to try

1:16:28

to be broad which you know I. Think

1:16:30

that the flipside of as I can't be

1:16:32

d on too many Vegas for and it's

1:16:34

interesting and and and to me this as

1:16:36

a source of a little bit of of

1:16:38

our frustrations. Not the right word anxiety. Maybe

1:16:41

it's that, you know. Ten years ago, I

1:16:43

felt like I had a pretty good grasp

1:16:45

of everything that was happening in the field.

1:16:47

I don't feel that way Eddie Murphy said

1:16:49

it's grown so much which is great. Like

1:16:51

I. you know I am I. I'm passionately

1:16:54

a believer that we need. To

1:16:56

do this and that growth in the field is

1:16:58

a good thing, but it has made it harder

1:17:00

for me to really keep up with a lot

1:17:02

of the cutting edge stuff. That. This is

1:17:05

something that. That deserves a little

1:17:07

conversation here because I think it's affecting

1:17:09

you and is affecting a lot of

1:17:11

listeners. In. The early early

1:17:13

days of the Internet in the web. On

1:17:16

back when I'm doing that he commerce thing. Ah,

1:17:19

there was a timer. I knew every website. Every

1:17:21

single website says there was only five and

1:17:24

there was ten and then there was one

1:17:26

hundred and it grew and I went through

1:17:28

this street of of crisis. And.

1:17:30

I says about twenty three because I would

1:17:32

say of later and later on so much

1:17:35

new knowledge. Them for me right and I

1:17:37

was trained as scale mind knowing this of

1:17:39

my digital environment. With

1:17:41

my time and eventually I was

1:17:43

truly. I think I was

1:17:45

in Information Addicts with the Got Emails experiment. You

1:17:48

now says me. A mobile phone addiction. And

1:17:50

had a problem with it and as. Understanding

1:17:53

that. There. Is no way any

1:17:55

human, even the very smartest and best of

1:17:57

us is going to know everything online right

1:17:59

now. If. You. Don't have was

1:18:01

online is garbage anyway. so the only thing

1:18:03

we can do is learn to be comfortable

1:18:05

enough stress with that, right? Because the stress

1:18:08

will kill you and I think recognize your

1:18:10

limitations, right? And that's I think we're a

1:18:12

lot of people fall down as they they

1:18:14

don't recognize what they don't know and get

1:18:17

themselves in trouble and I try hard and

1:18:19

we all do that. but I'd I'd But

1:18:21

I try hard to be very humble about

1:18:23

my lack of knowledge and and recognize that

1:18:26

there's. Way. More than I don't know

1:18:28

that I did even about age. It even about

1:18:30

aging. And it's also important. men. In

1:18:32

a big thing that I look at at my

1:18:34

job Israel is to cure a knowledgeable people. Who.

1:18:37

Have a good view the future

1:18:39

and and have different sets of

1:18:41

of visibility into into practices and

1:18:43

all that so that listeners and

1:18:45

can come and say oh right.

1:18:48

That. That feels like a good direction.

1:18:50

At because the network of all the guess you

1:18:52

go on shows his hundreds of thousands of times

1:18:55

more knowledge and layer of your own pretty knowledgeable

1:18:57

sites. Six, How do we charades? Even.

1:18:59

She'll be the best. The. Best experts like

1:19:01

you and the best A I two sets

1:19:03

of there will be millions of different a

1:19:06

eyes that believe different things of example years.

1:19:08

so pretty interesting to think about. it doesn't

1:19:10

and results are that our it and it

1:19:12

turns out the best filter. It's

1:19:14

that your biology is a filter of reality, right?

1:19:16

It's throwing out a bunch of data before it

1:19:18

hits your brain. Well, we need to build systems

1:19:20

there throughout data before it. It's our brains. And

1:19:23

that's as important. Longevity is having a

1:19:25

doc. Otherwise you're

1:19:27

just like I'm possibly dollars I can

1:19:29

scan. And then that stress six

1:19:32

way less. and I think that bad

1:19:34

real challenge right now, as you've sort

1:19:36

of alluded to, is the massive amount

1:19:38

of information out there and sifting the

1:19:40

signal from the noise and particularly the

1:19:42

signal. It's right for you, as is

1:19:45

really, really tough. Nice. I

1:19:48

think a lot of listeners are going to

1:19:50

be extremely interesting getting their dogs and and

1:19:52

I should mention my and my assistant here

1:19:54

in Austin her dog datum. Is.

1:19:57

An Australian by the way. it is really

1:19:59

cool name. The dog is is using

1:20:01

the cause guide and I was using

1:20:03

gave the amount of information they are

1:20:05

gathering was insane so I live. Kudos

1:20:07

for getting all the info you can.

1:20:09

can people listening enroll their dogs is

1:20:11

A for your product? Yeah! so the

1:20:14

the project website is Dog Aging projects.org

1:20:16

There's a little button I think it's

1:20:18

often the upper right hand corner the

1:20:20

says nominate my dog You click that

1:20:22

it as like five real simple questions

1:20:24

and then you will get invited to

1:20:26

your own owner poured over which is

1:20:28

where you get access to. The comprehensive

1:20:30

Annual Survey and as called the Health and

1:20:32

Life Experiences Service I'm sure that's what she

1:20:35

was referring to and it is. It is

1:20:37

pretty comprehensive so it takes people about an

1:20:39

hour to two hours depending on sort of

1:20:41

the branching trees that they go down to

1:20:43

complete the survey. Fortunately it's and ten modules

1:20:46

gonna do it all in one sitting arm

1:20:48

and then once you've done that, you are

1:20:50

part of the Dog Aging Project school and

1:20:52

you are a. Community. Science

1:20:54

participant contributing to Lt Longevity and

1:20:56

Dogs and how the longevity and

1:20:59

people. So it's a super fun

1:21:01

project on. Some of the dogs

1:21:03

will be eligible for what we

1:21:05

call sampled cohorts. So ten thousand

1:21:07

dogs get their genome sequenced. thousand

1:21:09

dogs are moved into what we

1:21:12

call the precision cohort were every

1:21:14

year you get sent a sample

1:21:16

kids that that you take your

1:21:18

veterinarian to, collects lied for epigenome

1:21:20

metabolism equal microbiome things like that

1:21:23

so you're comprehensive. Data set on the

1:21:25

thousand dogs every year on this is

1:21:27

a longitudinal study, so we are asking

1:21:29

unless you go into the clinical trial

1:21:31

which is triad which we talked about,

1:21:33

that's only five hundred eighty dollars. Everyone

1:21:35

else is in the longitudinal study of

1:21:37

aging. We don't ask the owners to

1:21:40

do anything different than they normally would,

1:21:42

but we collect data and in a

1:21:44

subset of cases, biological samples really to

1:21:46

try to understand Again, what are the

1:21:48

most important environmental genetic factors that influence

1:21:50

health outcomes and longevity? And dogs. Beautiful.

1:21:54

But. Thanks for asking hard questions for

1:21:56

many years. You're the only guess I've

1:21:58

had out of almost twelve. Hundred who's

1:22:00

done. Real. Meaningful

1:22:02

work across all of the different

1:22:05

models afraid, you know, including the

1:22:07

human models. Or and I

1:22:09

think that's unique and interesting. and a

1:22:12

cat people I'm sorry but it seems

1:22:14

like has reproduce so quickly or have

1:22:16

to live on for I actually think

1:22:18

they're city a cat a typewriter right?

1:22:21

I'm not going to do it. We're

1:22:24

talking are gonna finish the interview but we

1:22:26

were reciting before it started as that one

1:22:29

of the problems as is really hard to

1:22:31

get it's had to take a price Yes

1:22:33

I often get asked the question ah you

1:22:35

know. Why is there to add

1:22:37

aging project Specifically in the context of the

1:22:40

rapper my son from party testing ruff my

1:22:42

son cat and for some a dog person

1:22:44

that is the honest answer fight. Have you

1:22:46

ever tried to get a cat the sake

1:22:48

of silk As an owner know to dogs

1:22:50

they're pill every week. Ah and so it

1:22:52

is is much more practical to think about

1:22:55

designing the site of a clinical trial in

1:22:57

dogs. And here's a here's something for the

1:22:59

cat owners. cats tend to live longer than

1:23:01

ourselves into thinking about the statistics of how

1:23:03

long the up to the trial, how many

1:23:05

dogs do need, To be harder to do that. But

1:23:09

I do think it is important to mention

1:23:11

that is no biological reason why rapper my

1:23:13

son is in a work any differently and

1:23:15

Cats said it doesn't. Dogs are in people

1:23:18

and it's as if you're reminded me of

1:23:20

an episode probably in the first three hundred

1:23:22

I interviewed a veterinarian who is looking effects

1:23:25

of instance you on health and longevity in

1:23:27

dogs into yes and I've been suggesting ever

1:23:29

since then at all Mc Tv or cafeteria

1:23:31

dog food and robots. your dog's food cravings

1:23:34

go away the the we left boob tube.

1:23:36

Amp As interesting as just because I

1:23:38

think they're energetic Savannah south or so.

1:23:40

A lot of things you apply to

1:23:42

both, but not everything. Awesome

1:23:45

thinking about static years and pleasure.

1:23:51

Your and was need to be human. Upgrade with

1:23:53

the mastery. Human

1:23:57

afraid for. Really? Blew Proofreading was created

1:23:59

in is hosted data and. Information contained

1:24:01

in his podcast is provided for informational

1:24:03

purposes only, and is it intended for

1:24:05

the purposes of diagnosing, treating, curing, Of

1:24:07

preventing any disease Before using any products reference

1:24:09

on the podcast. consult with your healthcare provider

1:24:12

carefully read or labels and he told her

1:24:14

actions and courses that accompany the products information

1:24:16

sound received through the Puck I should not

1:24:18

be used in place of a consultation or

1:24:20

advice from health care provider. He sees this

1:24:23

as you have a medical problem or should

1:24:25

you have any questions please. Public policy your

1:24:27

healthcare provider does podcast including Dave Asprey and

1:24:29

the producers to flee responsibility for any possible

1:24:32

adverse effects from the use of information contained

1:24:34

herein Opinions of Guess So their own in

1:24:36

this podcast is not endorse or accept responsibility.

1:24:38

Statements made by Guess A Cast

1:24:40

is not make any representations a

1:24:42

warranty on skis and. As

1:24:45

vacancy impeded often. Individuals

1:24:49

on his podcast me have a direct or indirect

1:24:51

are you so interested Products or services refer to

1:24:53

the Ring. To

1:24:57

the priest media. Has

1:25:08

you? In. A phrase formerly Bulletproof Radio was created in

1:25:10

is hosted by Day That Break. The.

1:25:12

Information contained in his podcast is provided for

1:25:14

informational purposes only, and it's not intended

1:25:16

for the purposes of diagnosing, treating, curing, Of

1:25:19

presenting any disease before using any products Reference

1:25:21

on the podcast Consult with your healthcare provider

1:25:23

carefully read or label said he'd all directions

1:25:25

and courses that accompany the products. Information

1:25:27

found a receives to the podcast should not be

1:25:30

used since I have a consultation. Or advice from

1:25:32

health care provider is he suspects you have

1:25:34

a medical problem or should you have any

1:25:36

has concessions please public policy your healthcare provider

1:25:39

does podcast. Including Dave Asprey and the producers

1:25:41

to claim responsibility for any possible adverse effects

1:25:43

from the use of information contained herein. The

1:25:45

needs of Get so their own in this

1:25:47

Podcast is not endorse or accept responsibility. Statements

1:25:50

Made By Guess This Podcast is

1:25:52

not make any representations a warranties

1:25:54

about Us qualifications The Credibility: This

1:25:56

Podcast may contain paid endorsements and

1:25:58

advertisements or products or services. Individuals

1:26:00

on is a cast may have a direct or

1:26:02

indirect financial interest in part of the services research

1:26:04

is he. Consistent.

1:26:08

By Bullet Proof Media.