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Brett (00:00.743) Hello and welcome to another episode of the Impact Code. In this episode, we venture into the extreme and awe -inspiring world of ultra marathon running with Zach Bitter. Zach is not just an ultra marathon runner. He's a record breaker who pushes the limit of human endurance. With world records in both the 100 mile and 12 hour track runs, his feats are a testament to what the human body and spirit can achieve with focus, determination, and the right training. In 2019, during the six days in the Dome event, Zach Bitter (00:03.866) You Brett (00:30.631) Zach set a staggering pace and finished a 100 mile track run in just 11 hours, 19 minutes and 13 seconds, setting a benchmark in the sport and inspiring runners and athletes worldwide. Beyond his incredible physical achievements, Zach's approach to training, nutrition, and mental resilience offers valuable insights into how one can optimize performance in any area of life. His strategies and methodologies are rooted in a deep understanding of human physiology and the power of a disciplined mind. So, Zach Bitter (00:33.914) You Brett (00:59.495) Prepare to be inspired by a man who runs not just to challenge records, but to redefine what is possible. Please join me in welcoming Zach Bitter to the Impact Code. Zach, welcome to the show. Zach Bitter (01:03.098) Hey Brett, thanks so much for having me on. I'm honored by the intro. I will mention that my world records have been broken since then. So there is a guy named Alexander Sorokin who I have to give a nice hat tip to for breaking the 11 hour barrier in 100 mile over the last couple of years. So. It's cool to see the sport grow and the times continue to come down. So it's been a fun journey. Brett (01:37.223) Yeah, absolutely. And I appreciate that. That's that's an incredible feat as well. And it always amazes me to see how really one person's record becomes sort of the benchmark for the next, you know, for the next set. And it's interesting to see, like the old story of like the, you know, the five minute mile barrier. Right. Like no one, no one thought that humans could possibly do that. And then once it was done, it started being done everywhere. And so. Zach Bitter (01:59.322) Yeah. Brett (02:07.463) If for you, what was that like to be sort of the target, I guess, for, for everyone else to now believe, Hey, it's possible to run in that amount of time and, and sort of set the standard. Zach Bitter (02:17.338) Yeah, I mean it was an objective, an objective kind of, I wouldn't say it was a lifelong goal because there was large portions of my life where breaking world records was never really on my radar, something that was gonna be available to me. But when I got into ultra marathon running, specifically a race in 2013, I sort of got close enough, well actually I did break a world record that day. It was the 12 hours distance run in 12 hours, but I wasn't really aware that that was actually a world record that was out there until partway through the event actually. Uh, but the one I had kind of my eyes on that for whatever reason, just resonated with me at the time was the hundred mile world record. And that day I got close enough to it where I was like, Hey, you know, with the right race and the right preparation and just some, you know, general trajectory in sport, I should be able to go under that standard. And my thought process with that sort of evolved over the years. It took me. nearly six years to get to the point that you mentioned in 2019 where I ran 11 hours and 19 minutes. But my, by the time I got to that, I was pretty aware of just where the sport of ultra running was at, where it was likely heading and will continue to head. And to, for me, I think that kind of like shaped an expectation of, Hey, I can lower this mark. And if I do that, it's going to become a bigger target. If I do my job in terms of kind of sharing that process. exciting more people to take a swing at it. And then eventually I'll become sort of a stepping stone to the next one and the next one, the next one. And then who knows where we'll see it go over the years. So I think that's kind of the spot I like to be with it in terms of just kind of how I view it as like an accomplishment, where I fit within kind of the grander scheme of ultra running and the history of ultra running and that sort of thing is kind of like somebody who put a spotlight on that discipline to some degree. Cause when you think of like ultra marathon running, it's a sport that has a deep history that I think most people don't necessarily know about. They kind of think of more of the modern rise of ultra marathon running and that sort of very much skews towards kind of the trail side of the sport, which has a rich history. And I would say right now also holds like a lot of the excitement. So one of my goals, Zach Bitter (04:39.738) kind of when I started focusing on more runnable hundred milers as runnable as a 400 meter track. So you can kind of imagine the monotony of that sort of a setup versus being out on a point to point trail. We were going through mountains and things like that. It was kind of to say like, hey, this is part of the sport too. It's got a history that dates back very far. In fact, in the late 1800s, there were people doing what they called pedestrianism in Madison Square Garden of all places. Chasing these like really long, like almost time -based events and things like that. Brett (04:45.351) haha Brett (05:04.135) Oh wow. Zach Bitter (05:09.754) And, you know, just being the nature of ultra running is such that, you know, it's probably going to have ebbs and flows where it gets popular and then it sort of isn't for a while. And then it kind of grows again. And at least that's how it's been historically, whether this most recent rise is going to stick or not, is anybody's guess. But, you know, part of it was like kind of like saying, hey, we've got all this talent in the sport now. Let's let's give a fair shake to some of these more runnable stuff, some more controlled stuff, some of the more historic events that that are also. have a very interesting appeal to them, even if it's a little bit different. And, you know, for me, I think being able to get on big platforms like the Joe Rogan experience twice or Lex Friedman's podcast and Chris Williams, his modern wisdom podcast is getting huge now. You know, those have been opportunities for me. Yeah. To show people that are maybe like not even aware of or just passively aware of ultra running to think like, oh, there's this side of it. And if I want to chase a record, Brett (05:56.583) It is, yeah. Zach Bitter (06:08.282) I can do that. And if I want to maybe break a record, there's an opportunity here with the flat runnable stuff that maybe if I don't have access to steep mountain climbs and descents where, you know, winning an iconic race like the ultra trail, Mont Blanc or the Western States 100 or even getting into a race like the hard rock 100, where it's just like the way to get into that is so difficult. You could be the best runner in the world and never have a chance to do that event. You know, there's other options out there to do there, maybe a little more approachable from a specificity standpoint, because it's pretty hard to argue that you don't have access to a flat 400 meter stretch of real estate. Most people can do that. So I think that kind of my goals within it definitely were early on, let's break some records, let's see how fast I can go. And to some degree, those are still goals of mine. They've just kind of grown to include things of like, let's also grow this aspect of the sport and see what I can do to kind of influence that to some degree. So. Brett (06:45.479) Yeah, yeah. Zach Bitter (07:04.474) I think to a large degree, I've been able to do that fairly successfully as much as any one person can expect to with a sport that is kind of a little still still a little bit of a niche sport when you talk about kind of the grand scheme of things. Brett (07:18.855) Yeah. And I think to some degree it is hard for it to be an accessible sport for people who are going from largely being inactive to just getting into being active. I think for some people like a 5k might be a, you know, a big goal for them. And so to imagine doing then 100 miles is like, Oh my gosh, like you have to have something special about you to do that. Do you feel like there has to be something special about someone to, to. do something like run 100 miles or do you think that it is something that is largely achievable by everyone if they're willing to put in the work? Zach Bitter (07:54.49) Yeah, it's it's a really cool topic. I'm glad you brought this up, actually, because it's a it's something where the sport has got some different aspects to it. I think generally speaking, if someone's never run before and they think of someone like myself or someone who's anyone who's running 100 miles, it doesn't have to be me. It could be the person finishing very, very at the very end of the field. They think like. to some degree that's unachievable. That's not something I can do. They sort of look at it as can or can't. I think most people, if not everybody, given the right circumstances, could go a hundred miles in one go of it. It's just a question of how fast can you do it? And what are you willing to sacrifice or what are you able to sacrifice in order to actually like make that a reality? And I've seen the sport sort of grow in that where... I think early on there was a lot of just kind of the trajectory into ultra marathon was sort of. I was a runner at one time or I am a runner and I'm ready for something different. Maybe I burnt out in the traditional Olympic distances, or maybe I just wanted to do something completely different in the trails gave me like a different experience within the vehicle that is running and that reignited a passion and an interest in it. And then people looking for challenges, but those people oftentimes had kind of gone through the rigors of training for five Ks, 10 Ks, half marathons, marathons, the current more traditional stuff. Whereas what I've seen in the last, basically like maybe a little bit pre pandemic. And then the pandemic just blew this up was you had guys like David Goggins, who, I mean, people feel one way or the other about David Goggins. A lot of times, like some people are like, he's the man. And other people are like, look at this clown out here, just like running around and. screaming at people, you know what not. And I think it's like anything. It's like, if you actually take the time to sit down and pay attention to what Goggins is saying and doing, and you tease out what's actually happening with his massive signal is you have people who previously would have probably said, Oh, a 5k no way. Now thinking, I'm just going to Gog is my way to a hundred miles. So they're Brett (09:44.327) Hehehehehe Zach Bitter (10:09.306) their vision of what they're capable of has just accelerated so fast. And when you have that type of a scenario, yeah, you can misuse it. You can decide, all right, I've never run before. I'm just gonna go out there and Goggins this hundred mile and end up injuring yourself and never running again. Or you can look at it as like, okay, Goggins has showed me you can be obese and unmotivated and not be able to make it on the block. And then find yourself crossing the finish line of 200 plus mile races and not only doing that, but building a career that is just massive, a personal brand that's massive that I think it's just, it highlights just like the, the, the best of what you can achieve when you decide to just go at something with everything you have. And I think that just, I love scenarios where people bet on themselves and believe that they can do something, whether it's all at once or in stages. You know, I think that's awesome. And I think like the, if you have me sit down and kind of unpack what's the perfect scenario with someone getting exposed to David Goggins at an early stage, like when there may be the person sitting on the couch, not able to make it around the block. It is okay. I can do that, but let's figure out what the, what the, like the long -term plan is here and kind of start scaffolding out what that looks like versus, you know, throwing themselves to the wolves, so to speak, and trying to conquer a hundred miles in, in one go, like without any prior experience. But what it's done for me, you know, within the sport is it's brought a whole new group of people into the sport of ultra running that otherwise was maybe less interested in it, where they have this idea of I want to be I want to be unbreakable. Like I want to be a type of person who can go out and challenge myself physically. And I might not be the best at it, but I'm going to be good enough at everything that nothing can just really humble me. Brett (11:59.271) Hmm. Zach Bitter (12:02.234) And then we have like the rise of like the hybrid athlete kind of model where people want to be able to do everything. They want to be able to go in a weight room and lift some weights if they have to and not feel like they're just absolutely destroyed after it. They want to go out and be able to run a marathon and not wake up the next day and feel like, okay, I'm never going to run again because I just broke myself. They want to be very, very multifaceted. And, you know, now I'm getting people that are coming to me for coaching who in the past, it was almost like standard. Okay, this person is coming to me for coaching for ultra marathon running. They are going to have like this a massive aerobic foundation because they're likely thinking about ultra marathons because they just like to run a lot of miles very slow. So it's like for someone like that, their development is okay, let's look at this practically and find out a way to prepare you to be the best you can on race day. And a lot of times that meant let's lean on that foundation, that strong aerobic foundation and do a speed work development phase, which feels really awkward relative to what you'd be doing for 100 miles. Brett (12:44.487) Yeah. Zach Bitter (13:00.378) But for that person, it's the necessary lever to pull early. And then once we pull that lever, let's get back to kind of that long, slow stuff and really, really work on the specifics that you're going to be doing on race day. And that's going to likely yield the best result. And then I'm getting people who come from a background or now I'm getting people to who come from a background where maybe they engage in a lot of explosive power based sports or at least way more explosive and power based than what you would see from that kind of more traditional ultra marathon runner where, uh, for me to give them any sort of speed work development would be putting the carpet for the horse. Cause they've been banging that drum for years and years and they need to just focus on developing that aerobic foundation and working on longer, slow stuff. So like the preparation for that person in the short and long -term is going to look quite a bit different. And I find that fascinating that the sport is attracting that diverse set of people. And then when you pile on top of it, you get people. I think cam Hanes is probably the best example of this. Brett (13:52.615) Yeah. Zach Bitter (13:57.402) where you have someone who is absolutely world class, potentially the best in the world at a discipline that you would not necessarily associate with ultra marathon running. So like bow hunting essentially is his passion, his primary passion. And he discovered that like the public's opinion or the public's perception of hunters is oftentimes like, oh, I'm going to go out there and sit up in a tree stand and I'm going to wait. And then something's going to wander past me and then I'm going to shoot it. And Cam's like, no, he's like, like. Brett (14:07.655) Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm. Brett (14:25.191) Hahaha Zach Bitter (14:25.53) Hunting the way I like to do it is you get a bow and you find an area that you learn intimately enough where you know where everything is. And you might be traveling for hours and hours and hours, 10, 20 miles into a specific area. Then you lay in wait and then you harvest the animal that you've been stalking. And then you have to go through the process of breaking down, taking out. It is an ultra marathon. It is something that would be like as taxing as an ultra marathon can be. Brett (14:52.071) Mm -hmm. Zach Bitter (14:55.29) So he learned along the way, like being an ultra marathoner is going to improve his passion. So he's sharing this by sharing his lifestyle and just letting everyone into like what it is to be Cam Haines. And now there's like a whole group of people that are like historically like I want to be a backwards hunter. What's the path forward to that? And they see that as, oh, I should start training for an ultra marathon. Cause that's going to make me more effective at getting into the back country and effectively executing the the task at hand and making it back out, they have a huge wide range of options available to them that they didn't maybe have before when they were less fit and less engaged in endurance activity. Brett (15:37.287) It's so interesting how one person can change like the, the dynamic and the involvement and the sort of perception of an entire sport. It's pretty incredible to see. I think cams, it cams a great example of that. And Zach, for you, if you're to kind of go back towards the beginning of your story, was yours in, was your entry into ultra. Zach Bitter (15:49.37) Mm -hmm. Brett (16:03.175) Was it gradual or was it very specific and intentional in that like, this is the thing that I want to do. You were aware of it, or was it more of an escalation where you started with a smaller race and you were like, what's next? What's my next challenge? And found ultra that way. Zach Bitter (16:17.018) Yeah, it definitely started out gradually. At least the intent was to be gradual. And then I sort of like abandoned that strategy. So like the way I looked at it was, I mean, I've been a runner now for 25 years, essentially. Like if you go back 25 years, that's when I started kind of engaging with the sport. And, you know, most of that time was kind of just like through the standard distance stuff where, or should actually this point probably just about half that time. You know, my mindset was very much like running is something I'm really interested in, but it's a hobby. I'm not going to be an Olympic 5k runner, Olympic marathoner, but I could run very fast marathons, very fast, 5k is very fast. 10 K is relative to the norm. So as far as having a passion that I could walk away from and saying, this is an exciting process and I'm good enough at this to be motivated by that aspect of the sport. You know, I was all in by college for that. And after college, I was invested to the degree where when I was teaching full time, I was still going to spend 20 hours a week preparing myself for races at times. And, you know, so that was the level of interest I had in the sport as just a hobby. And I knew of ultra marathon running. I think I first came became familiar with it as like, I think a senior in high school, maybe I had my cross country coach was just like, hey, man, there's this crazy guy who's going to try to run 300 miles without stopping. And he's, you know, he's on this tour about his Dean Karnazes and Dean is kind of like the guy who like, um, he, he sort of put a big spotlight on the sport in the, like, kind of 2010 timeframe where, you know, people like me who were runners, but not necessarily aware of ultra running likely heard about the sport through someone like Dean or through some like exhibition or like, like, I mean, he was on David Letterman. So maybe like watching David Letterman or something like that. uh, is how you kind of learn about what the sport actually is. And he was maybe a vehicle into it to some degree. So I was aware of it then. And then I think in college, I read a couple of books that were kind of about ultra marathon running. And I remember like, I think it was my junior year in college. I remember thinking, okay, I'm going to do an ultra marathon someday, but I'll probably be in my thirties somewhere around there. And the idea there was that I was Zach Bitter (18:37.338) that there was no option to become a professional ultra marathon runner. At the time there really wasn't. And so I was thinking of it through the same lens of, if I wanna be a runner, I'm gonna have to do it as a hobby alongside a career that's different from that. And yeah, so at that point I was like, well, I'll check all the boxes up to ultra marathon first, fully exhaust those, and then I'll get into ultra marathon. And in my mind's eye, that was like, you know, in my thirties, because at that point I'd likely have seen my potential at the marathon and below. So I sort of went that route for a few years after college. And then I was, I found myself just kind of looking for a, uh, for a race to do in the fall of 2010. Didn't even realize that there were ultra marathons in Wisconsin. Uh, that's how little I actually knew about the sport, I guess. And found out that there was one that was like, I think I like an hour and a half of where I was living. And I was like, you know what? I'm just going to do that. It was a 50 mile race. I'm just going to do that one. And then. Brett (19:21.351) Yeah. Zach Bitter (19:34.586) You know, see where it leads. My mind, I was like, I'm going to go back to like training for marathons or something like that right after it. I'm just going to dip my toe in the water. I did it. I had a ton of fun preparing for it, had a ton of fun racing it. I won it. So I was sort of had like that spark lit at that point where I was like, there's something here that maybe like needs to be integrated sooner than in my 30s. I was like 24 at the time. So like that felt like a little bit of a long time to wait. So I was patient enough to wait a full year to do another one. Brett (19:50.983) Right. Zach Bitter (20:04.282) but I did do another one, one year later, and then I ended up doing two more within like a two month time period. So I had done like three of them, I think in like a nine week span, and then I was hooked. So from there on, it was like, okay, I'm all in ultra marathons. 2012 is gonna be all about ultra marathons as my primary focus. That's the year I ran my first 100 miler. The next year in 2013, I broke a world record and an American record at the event I spoke about prior and. Brett (20:14.439) Wow. Yeah. Zach Bitter (20:30.042) Then I was just like, that's when it got to a point where I was like, okay, there's maybe a career here, whether it be through coaching or some combination of coaching and athlete sponsorships and things like that. Those doors started to open at that point. So then it started kind of getting a little more exponential in terms of like how much time and energy I was willing to invest in the sport. Brett (20:49.511) And can you talk a little more about how you've changed kind of as a result of being involved in Ultra, as a result of sort of seeing yourself winning and beating records and how has that sort of changed your identity as a person? Zach Bitter (21:07.29) Yeah, it's a good question. I mean, I would say like, there's probably two aspects of that. There's one of like me as an athlete, and then there's me as like a careerist. And it's like, as an athlete, it shifted from a hobby to, oh, you are, you're good enough at this where like you can call yourself a professional athlete, not just a guy running. And it's like, I don't know that I still necessarily like, see that as like my primary identity. Brett (21:32.103) Hehehehe Zach Bitter (21:37.306) Although technically I've been competing as a professional athlete for a decade now, so it's part of who I am. The other part is kind of like, because of that, I think I've always had a healthy fear of what do I do with this? Because it's not necessarily something that's guaranteed, and it's also not necessarily something that's financially or career wise something. sustainable to keep doing. Cause like, obviously when I'm 50 years old, I'm probably not going to be breaking the hundred mile world record. So it's like, where's the end here? It's not like a traditional sport where, or I shouldn't say traditional sport, but it's not like some of the bigger sports where if you have a healthy 10 year career and you're smart with your money, you could essentially retire and live off of that. You have to have a plan as to what you're going to do sometimes during, and even at, and then certainly after in most cases. And as a sport sport grows, if you're a big enough name, it's very possible like you make the right partnerships that, hey, there's an there's opportunities for you to kind of have a job within the sport of some capacity after you're done competing where you're not winning races for contracts and things like that. The rise of social media and just personal brands and things like that have definitely opened that door to a larger margin where now you don't even have to be winning races. You just have if you can build a platform for one reason or the other, you can have a job as a creator. essentially. So that's the thing that's changed in my mindset entirely, whereas like, okay, there's like the business of running and what I want to do with that. And then there's like the sort of the act of being an athlete and where I fit within that. And both of those have, have changed quite a bit in terms of how I view them, where when I did start to shift my brain towards, I can make money as a runner and that can be my, my job. It, you know, it was like, it was also shifting to like, what do I need to do? on the business end of that to be building while I am competing so that when I do run my last competitive race, I can kind of step away and say, okay, there's still something here that I can continue as a career. And so that's kind of the entrepreneur career side of things. And, you know, that stuff has just always been, I think just, I've just been really fortunate with timing, you know, running my first ultra marathon in 2010, right as the sport was starting to grow exponentially. Zach Bitter (23:54.65) right as social media and internet online based career opportunity to start to grow exponentially. I've just been able to kind of like focus on my passions, which I would say are training and racing, coaching and helping others with that process. Cause you know, my background is as an educator. So that's still something I really value as something that I can offer is helping other people achieve their goals through things I've learned. And then also like the podcasting side of it, which kind of fits into all of that. Uh, so I've always just kind of focused on those interests throughout my career and just been fortunate that with the timing of everything, they've been able to kind of continually grow over the, um, you know, 13, 14 years that I've been kind of doing this sport. And to the point where now it's like, I don't technically have to race anymore and my career will be, be what it is perfectly fine. So I have options in terms of kind of where I want to lean those interests at any given time. And. where my passions draw me to. So, yeah, I don't know that I ever really expected. It's kind of always just been like one year at a time, to be honest. And like every year so far, I've walked away for the most part thinking, okay, there was progress there. I learned something, I grew somewhere. And it hasn't always been the same thing. I've had years where like my race results were really poor relative to what they've been in the past. But usually on those years, I've also had like something like podcast growth, social media growth, coaching growth, or something has worked well within that. Brett (25:03.655) Hmm. Zach Bitter (25:17.69) or some years where I've had some of my best racing seasons, it's like, oh, I kind of took a step back on coaching that year because, you know, I was racing a lot and there's only so much growth you can have in the other areas. So some of it's been also just learning kind of the balancing act between all those things that I'm interested in, in making sure that I'm not just overemphasizing certain parts or to the degree where I don't have the balance that I think makes it sustainable for me and kind of learning about that along the way too. Brett (25:47.783) I think that's such an important point for people listening to sort of take in is, is the longevity piece of when you're thinking about your dreams and your goals and what you want to accomplish in the world and how the pieces of your life, whether it's kind of the hobbies of things that you enjoy, how those things fit together, it is important to be able to say like, Hey, I'm not always going to be maybe the best or the most successful in this one area. So what are all the things that I'm good at and how do I make sure that I'm sort of. pushing forward in all of those areas with balance and recognizing that maybe not all of those will be firing on all cylinders at once, but are we making progress in all those things over time? I think that's a really key point to sort of the longevity of success. Zach Bitter (26:26.586) Yeah, and I think this is an interesting topic because as the sport gets more professional in the sense that like there are people who if you're good enough, you can sign a contract in ultra running with a sponsor and not do anything other than train and race and you can make ends meet that way. And then if you have a really successful career. You know, there was probably opportunities on the back end of that where you don't necessarily have to be thinking about building much if you don't want to. I would still say that you're taking you're taking a risk like that, like any entrepreneur or any professional athlete would be. But to some degree, like those opportunities are starting to get more frequent versus less frequent. So I think you're going to see more of that, not less of that. And you're going to see a higher degree of success stories within that versus like, oh, there's a couple of people who've done it. But then there's like this wake of just like people just that. like made terrible decisions with their time and now ended up like paying for it later on in life. But yeah, so it's like it's it's it's just an interesting kind of like it's an interesting kind of environment with with it. But I think for me, for anyone, you have to be honest with yourself. So like for me, it's always been like regardless of whether I have an opportunity to just be a professional athlete or not is sort of besides the point because I know about myself and I learned this really early in my life when I was teaching. I don't do well if I have that one singular focus where that's all I care about. Like I can really wring myself dry in terms of like exhausting myself with a specific task or interest. I have no problem like getting motivated to do that. And I don't necessarily like find myself feeling like, Oh, I, you know, I'm, I'm getting bored with this and I like in the short term anyway. But I think in the, in the long term, I like to have multiple outlets that I can kind of like, build and create within. And if I start getting too narrowly focused, then I start kind of like losing the value for myself. So whether that comes at a compromise to some degree, maybe, or maybe it's just as an individual, I need to have more balance in my life in order to be successful within any of the things I'm doing and to walk away feeling like it was something that was worthwhile versus something that I did and maybe did at the expense of my own kind of long -term. Zach Bitter (28:51.386) self -worth, I guess. Brett (28:54.919) Yeah. Yeah. It resonated with me earlier when you said something to the effect of like, uh, I haven't made ultra marathon in my entire identity. And, and that has been something that I think it hasn't been like a conscious decision that I've made, but has been something that I've also found true in my life is that I don't, there hasn't been one thing that I've really felt like, Hey, this is, this is like my entire identity. There's been things that I've been interested in and things that I've really enjoyed doing and pursuing and found some success in, but it was. It was a feeling for me of like, how do I, how am I a whole person? And that one thing is never enough, I think, for me to feel like an entire human being, I guess. Zach Bitter (29:28.922) Mm -hmm. Zach Bitter (29:32.954) Yeah, yeah, and it's just one of those things where it's like, I mean, you probably hear stories about this, especially around now where the Olympics are coming up, where it's like, you're going to have these people who, you know, invested like a portion of their last four years preparing for this one event. And then you have that kind of fallout afterwards where like, even if you win gold medal and really just check all those boxes, you kind of have this like, what now feeling afterwards. And I sort of see that to some degree. where it's like if I would put myself into that sort of a situation where it's like everything is resolved revolves around me running this specific time or breaking this specific record. When I do that, then what? And you know, the answer for me has always been, well, you can keep trying and then you can also have these other outlets that you pivot to in that void where, all right, now I have to kind of recover from that build up in that race. and kind of decide what I want to sink my passions, my running passions into next. But it's not just kind of sitting there kind of like waiting for that process to kick in. It's like, oh, well, I've got these coaching clients who are in the middle of their process and I need to make sure that they are getting what they need in order to check their boxes and fulfill their goals. And, you know, there's also like, I have some things I'd like to share with people about the sport of ultra marathon running or. about nutrition and health and fitness. And in order to do that, I need to be publishing podcast episodes. So like, you know, that's always kind of been the way that I found that is like, there's, it's just, there's never been a point where like things are going either so bad or so good that, that I find myself like not wanting to also engage in some of those other passions I have. Brett (31:19.336) That's so interesting, man. I appreciate you sharing that. So I want to talk about the coaching piece with you a little bit. What is it about coaching and especially in regards to sort of like fitness, nutrition, ultra? What is it that excites you about that? Zach Bitter (31:33.754) Yeah, I think one of the big things about ultra running specifically with it is that there's just so many variables. So, you know, you get to the point where you're running, you know, kind of a target for a lot of people in the hundred mile can be like, can I break 24 hours? It's like, when you just think about that, like as a goal, it's like, even if you don't get to 100 miles, even if you were just out there, like, trying to persevere for 24 hours. and only make it to 80 miles. It's like, that's still a process that requires a lot of variables and a lot of logistical considerations and planning and things like that. So the thing that excites me the most is like navigating all of that and finding kind of that balance between, okay, we've accounted for enough where you're not going to find yourself in a situation where it's like, oh, why did I not plan for this? This would have been so obvious if I would have just planned for this. you're going to have that accounted for, but there's also going to be this little bit relative unknown of something is going to happen that forces you to deviate from the initial plan or the initial scaffolding. And you also have to prepare to respond appropriately when that does happen and make the right decision. Or another way to maybe think about it is there's going to be a point where you kind of get presented with maybe like a couple of decisions and neither of them are ideal from like the onset, but one is definitely better than the other and you got to pick the right one. And I just love that process myself. And I love helping other people navigate that process and learn to navigate that process. So that's where I think coaching has really fit into my passion is that ability to kind of take what I've learned with that. What I've learned from other people based on their feedback is when I have a conversation with a coaching client and we're unpacking kind of their race and their experience, there's times where they're like, oh, this happened to me. I'm like, oh, that's, that's interesting. I've never actually been presented with that scenario in that specific way. But now that I know that that's a potential. I need to account for that when I'm talking with other coaching clients, or if maybe I do end up running into that situation down the road myself. So it's kind of this like, this like continual since the sport is relatively unresearched compared to a lot of other sports where we have a lot more money and research done on them. There's like this kind of interesting territory of you have to be aware of what we kind of know, and what we what you should count on happening. But there's also this huge Zach Bitter (33:51.77) world of uncertainties, unknowns, of trial and error, of anecdotes that kind of keep the sport, I think, really, really interesting and really kind of fun in terms of kind of how you go about it. It's kind of that fear of that unknown is still very much there and will likely always be to some degree when you find yourself doing things that take as much time and include as many variables as Ultramarathon does. Brett (34:17.799) Yeah, that's really interesting. It's almost like exploratory in a way. Like you're still just figuring out, finding the territory, figuring out the lay of the land. And as you're figuring it out, then able to kind of pass that information on to other clients. That's a really unique position to be in, I think in any field. Zach Bitter (34:33.882) Yeah. And you know, when I was teaching too, like I had a bit of a like a learning experience in my career where it was like you had like kind of the traditional school setup where I would kind of describe it as like you have a teacher and you have these students, you kind of have this authority figure and then you have these like these disciples, so to speak, or these people that are supposed to be learning from you or taking your kind of just like regurgitating information and they're supposed to absorb it. And then, you know, everything that goes into trying to do that with. Brett (34:53.287) Mm -hmm. Zach Bitter (35:01.498) you know, all the problems and potential hurdles to clear with that. And then I had the last two years of teaching, I was in this, I was in this different position where they had a, they were part of the public school district, but they also had a charter license. So they built out this like kind of alternative approach where we based the entire curriculum around like passions and projects that the students were interested in. So it went from like, oh, I spent the last four to six years in school learning, all about the specific thing I'm certified in. So I kind of am the content master at that point. I kind of am the smartest person in the room when it comes to this. It's like the kid has to be pretty darn smart to have better content awareness of that particular set of skills that the teacher is literally trained to teach you to do. Whereas you take that same teacher and you put them in an area where they're still the teacher, but now it's a specific topic or a specific subject area that they're not certified in, you have to learn to be someone who is also learning and more of a person who is, Hey, I know how to learn. I know how to research. I know how to unpack information and answer questions when I don't have the answer to them. And I'm going to teach you how to do that because I might not have the answer to give you. It can't be like the student comes up to me and says, Hey, how do I figure out this problem? And I walk them through it step by step and then show them the process, which they then do and then likely forget. It's more of a process of like, okay, we've got this problem here. Let's solve it together. And since I have experienced solving problems and this person is still learning that process, we can take something that they'd likely have better content knowledge of and work together as more of a kind of a partnership. And like you have some information and passions that I don't have. I have some skills that you have yet to develop. Let's combine forces and figure this out. And I think that experience was exactly what ultra marathon running is. That's exactly what coaching ultra marathon runners is. It's like, we will learn something this year that we didn't know about last year. And as a coach, I need to be comfortable saying, you know what? I told you five years ago that this is the best path forward. It looks like if we know nothing else right now, you might want to go this way instead. Zach Bitter (37:17.946) And if that doesn't work, we can pivot, but this is probably the highest likelihood of success going this route versus that route. Brett (37:26.279) Yeah, I love that mindset. And I think that that mindset exists more in fields that are still sort of in their early stages of development. So like Ultro, you know, it has been around for a really long time, but in terms of like the data and the research and the things that we know for a fact, like it's still, it's still modifying. It's still, there's more information coming out that's now like the new standard and there's new records being broken. There's... All of these things sort of change the dynamic of what we understand about it. Is there any advice that you would have if there's someone who has trouble like accepting new information? Maybe they're in a more developed field where things feel a little more concrete. How do you keep a beginner's mindset? Zach Bitter (38:00.09) Mm hmm. Yeah, I mean, I think I summarize it by saying like there are no absolutes. So like you can have something where like the data is very strong and very convincing that this is the way to go. on a population level. But anytime you unpack all that, there are always outliers. There are always people that respond differently or for whatever reason, just do whether whether it's optimal or not. You know, the path forward for them is going to just be different and they're going to find their best success by following this this alternative. So I like that. I think I think that's like having that perspective is how you reach people who were otherwise just have a terrible experience with kind of the status quo. And I don't know if it was like, you know, when I was teaching, I was dual certified, I was regular ed certifications, I was also special education certified. So I had approaches that I knew were very successful at a population level with the average student that I would start with. And then I had students that had individual education plans that through by the time they got to me, you know, they were seventh grade and 12th grade. They had already like the teachers before me had already learned that, you know what, don't try this approach with that kid because it is not going to work. And if you do it, you're just going to get the same result we did. And it's not a good one. So we had a different strategy in place that we learned from experience and from, you know, research on kind of the outlier side of things. That was a better, better strategy for them. And it has to evolve just their individual education plan would always evolve with them as they grew and learned and, you know, found new skillsets and things like that. but it was different. So I love to think about that with like just the, you know, the running side of things too, where it's like, you know, maybe this is a good starting point for people to go with. And if, hey, if it's working, if it's working as described, if it's working exactly the way the research said it should, cool, let's just keep rolling with that. Let's check that box. And then let's start thinking about working on something else that we can improve and continue that growth. But if it's not, Zach Bitter (40:24.154) And we've tried all the reasonable things that are suggested in order to make it work. And it's not working for you. Let's keep an open mind about what other options are out there that have yielded success. And even if it's in a minority, a minority number within like the population level data and see what, what you have with there. Cause we can always go back. We can always go back and kind of retry the things that we weren't able to get to work before. If person's willing to have patience, willing to spend time and you're curious enough to try it, you know, Let's keep all those options open. Let's not treat anything like an absolute. Brett (41:00.455) Yeah. Switching gears a little bit here. Is there a race, Zach, that's really memorable or special to you? Zach Bitter (41:07.162) Um, yeah, you know, one kind of sticks out that I mean, running my fastest 100 mile was definitely just like a life experience that I'll always like, think of uniquely. But to get that race, I think another one had to happen where I did a race in 2015, similar format was a 400 meter track. I was targeting 100 miles targeting the world record. Intent was to hit a hundred miles and then go on and run as far as I could for 12 hours. If all went well. And I just had a really good training block. I had moved to California the prior year. I was kind of comfortable living there at that time because I had spent a year. I kind of was adjusted. I was efficient within all the ins and outs of life within that world versus where I was in Wisconsin before that. And I just had this really good training block. I hit some like historic high volume in my lead up to it. When I got to the taper, it was like this. this almost sensation, like the only reason I'm tapering now is because I'm racing in two weeks. If not, I could just keep driving. So I found that really good balance of sort of like stress and fitness. In a race day, I ran a good race. I broke the American record for 100 miles that day. I ran 11 hours and 40 minutes and 55 seconds, but I was in world record shape and I just didn't pace the rice race quite properly. In my opinion, I think if I had paced it a little differently, I would have broke the world record that day. Um, So I walked away from that race thinking, okay, I moved forward. I ran seven minutes faster than I've ever had in a hundred miles before. So I did move, move the needle on progress here, but there, there are things that I could do differently that will get me to the finish line faster in this discipline. So now I need to go back to work and do this at slightly different way. That's going to maybe not feel right at first, but is going to get me better off. And I think like that lesson. put me in a position to have the year I did in 2019 where I was able to, um, for some perspective, when I ran the 11 hours and 19 minutes, actually negative split that race. So like the first 50 miles I ran in five hours and 40 minutes in the second 50 miles around in five hours and 38 minutes in some change. So it was like a scenario where I learned kind of from the mistakes I did in 2015, where it's like, I was a little too heavy on the gas pedal early on. And that likely costed me more than I made up for at the end. Zach Bitter (43:28.314) and kind of fought the intuition that I think a lot of ultra runners have, which is it's going to be tough at the end, no matter what. So I may as well bank some time early. And then you oftentimes see these lopsided splits where like you just gradually regress versus maintain or even speed up. So I sort of showed myself in a very controlled environment that I was right in 2015 about where my mistakes were. And I went back and I did it a little bit. more strategically based on kind of what I learned and it worked great. I was running my fastest miles at the end of that race and I think there was a reason for that and it was better pacing in the beginning. Brett (44:06.151) Yeah, that's incredible. During a race like that, do you find, and this is just more of a personal question for you, Zach, do you find that the hardest part is more on the physical side or more on the mental side? Is it a combination of both? Zach Bitter (44:21.882) Yeah, I mean, it's definitely like, there's definitely a synergy between the two where it's like, in order to challenge myself physically enough to improve at this point, it takes a huge mental, like, focus and like, I have to like, I know what I know now, right? So like, I know what goes into a 16, 20, 24 week build into a goal race. So like, I know what goes into it physically, I know what goes into it mentally, and to some degree that can be daunting because there's ups and downs in that and you know you're gonna hit them, you don't always know where. And it's just like, it's hard to really separate the two, especially when you get to a sport where the intensity is so low relative to what you could do at any given time, you end up having this sort of balance between like, I probably could have gone faster. And then you redefine it. So like the way I would describe it is like there's always these points in these races where you get hit with this like this phase of doubt and that phase of doubt sort of like it's this voice in your head saying, hey, you over you overreached. It's over. Slow down. Stop. Drop out. And you're sort of fighting that kind of negative self -talk. And really the difference between a great day, a good day and a bad day, a lot of times is. How many of those can you kind of navigate and push through? So if I go out ridiculous and just start running like five and a half minute mile paces at the start of a hundred miler, it doesn't matter how mentally strong I am. I'm toasted. I'm just not going to be able to sustain anything near that. So I'm going to pay a physical price based on those decisions that are independent of whatever mental strength I do or do not have versus if I go out knowing I've averaged. 647 and a half minute mile pace for a hundred miles. And I go out targeting like 640 pace or something like that. You know, if the training suggests that that's doable, it's not an egregious stretch. Then I have to start asking myself a little more like if I falter, was that physical or was that mental? Is it some combination of it? I think then when you're starting to have like more reasonable approaches, that mental side becomes the bigger hurdle to clear because you've sort of convinced yourself physical is on the table. Zach Bitter (46:40.378) It's just doing that rinsing and repeating, but then you have to be focused enough and mentally strong enough to actually do those steps that all add up to the point where you get to the race and can average those paces and hit that goal that you're trying to do. And, you know, that's the lead up of the training. And then the event itself, you have those kinds of seeds of doubt that get planted that you have to navigate and push through kind of along the way. Brett (46:43.111) Mm -hmm. Brett (47:08.551) Yeah, thanks for that answer. That's a great answer. So when that voice starts to pop up, what is your process or how do you personally keep moving, keep putting one foot in front of the other? Zach Bitter (47:19.386) Yeah, yeah, I think this gets easier. This is the part that gets easier, I think, because you definitely have more exhaustive experiences of knowing that you've done it before. So instead of thinking it's easy to cope when you don't know. So like if I blow up in a race and just drop out early in my career, I can cope and just say, hey, you know, I wasn't able to do it. Couldn't do it. You know, this happened. Blame it on this. Blame it on that. You don't have to accept mental weakness. You can always default to something. Oh, you know, I was physical. Oh, yeah, I just, you know, my quads blew out. I was dehydrated, you know, all sorts of stuff. Whereas now I kind of have enough experiences of like, oh, I made that excuse in 2012. And then in 2016, I had a race where I was presented with the exact same situation, but I got through it. So what was different? Was it just I was mentally stronger and better prepared in 2016 based on what I learned between then and 2012? Brett (47:55.719) Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Zach Bitter (48:17.114) and where my excuses just excuses and ways to cope in 2012, I tend to lean towards yes in that scenario. So it's like, it's, it tends to be kind of one of those things where I think like, you sort of know, going in what you're capable of, or at least relatively speaking, what you're capable of, and where like, a real excuse, or where an excuse is valid versus isn't. And some of that, I think is just like framing it properly for your own expectations. So like, I mean, there's races, that I have done recently and will do again in the future, I'm sure where I do drop out, where I do just like fail. And I think what I have now versus what I would have had earlier in my career is I'm more aware of the reasons for that. And one of those is just, I was mentally weak that day. And I think sometimes ultra running is sort of the sport that attracts people who find a lot of value in being mentally tough. It's like they're building this. identity and they're building this like, whether they're proving it to themselves or other people is besides the point. But it's this it's this activity that is showcasing mental toughness to some degree. And it's proving at least it's proving to yourself you can do something that you otherwise would have maybe not thought you could earlier on in your life and showing yourself what you're capable of. So I think it can be hard, especially when you've gotten into it to like, accept that, that mental aspect, you can have weaker days on that. And that's the reason you didn't get what you got. It's a lot easier to blame it on something physical. I think like people who are honest with themselves, myself included, will accept that and realize, you know, there's races where if you could do them again, it was a mental hurdle that you needed to clear versus a physical hurdle that you needed to clear. And you can unpack the why of your results a lot more cleanly. And when you can do that and learn better from it, then you're more likely to find success later on because you're actually correcting the mistakes that you were making versus. Brett (49:47.399) Mm -hmm. Zach Bitter (50:09.466) Blaming on something that actually wasn't wrong and then trying to fix something that you really didn't even need to fix. Brett (50:17.415) So fascinating. And I love how over time with more experience it seems like you've gained more clarity on being able to decipher what is an excuse versus what is maybe just mindset. You know, my mind is just wanting me to give up. Zach Bitter (50:31.706) Mm -hmm. Yeah, and I think it's one of those things too, where there's scenarios, like there's kind of an ongoing conversation with ultra running too, where it's like, they call it death before DNF, where it's like, I'm getting to that finish line no matter what. And I think there are times where that mentality is probably what the person needs. They need to show themselves that they're gonna make it to the finish line, whether it's with their A goal, their B goal, their C goal, or whatever it happens to be, that they at least cross that finish line. And in most races, if you cross the finish line, even in last place, you outperformed like a pretty high percentage of people who didn't make it to the finish line. So there's like a victory in and of itself right there. But then there's also times where it's just like, maybe pulling the plug is the better choice, or maybe it is the option on the table that is going to be a better growth experience for you or give you an opportunity you wouldn't have. And I mean, the more obvious one within that framework is like, yeah, if I am having a bad day and whether it's physical or mental, like maybe it is like maybe I did roll my ankle and it's bothering me to the extent where if I keep banging on this, I'm going to give myself a much bigger hurdle to get over after the race versus dropping out. Or maybe it is. I'm just not mentally with it today because I had a lot of stressors in my life leading to this race that I kind of blocked out. in my it to stay confident. But now that I'm out here in the middle of it, I realize how taxing those were. And I just don't have the will to give because of that. You know, those are both, I think, like those, those can both be acceptable reasons to drop out and kind of circle the wagons and build up to try to, to try to execute better in the future. But in order to learn from it, it's like I said, you got to be accurate as to what was the cause and what is the actual correction point to make within that. And I'm I favor being. Zach Bitter (52:26.938) being like vulnerable enough to like recognize the weaknesses for what they are versus, you know, doing a little too much coping. Brett (52:38.823) Yeah, do you ever have a race that you didn't finish that you're proud of your decision? Is there one that comes to mind where you were like, this was the right decision, it was a good growth experience for me that you wouldn't mind sharing? Zach Bitter (52:50.33) Yeah, yeah, I did a race. This one was a little more recently. Actually, I did a race where I should just to kind of describe the buildup to it. So I've been very fortunate in like, most of my career, I've been very injury resistant. So it just hasn't been something I've had to hurdle. In fact, it was it's, I was like, so injury resistant for most of my career was like, I got to be very strategic about actually taking enough of an offseason so that I actually hit the reset button. Whereas like other runners who get injured more frequently, they just, they don't have to worry about that as much because they'll just going to get injured eventually and be forced to take time off. And then they're going to be, they're going to, everything else is going to catch up then too, where I had an injury there. I injured my ankle preparing for like this huge event. I was going to try to do is actually the trans con where you run from San Francisco to New York. And it was, uh, it didn't seem like it was a big deal at the time. Uh, other than the fact that it was just. Brett (53:29.735) Mm -hmm. Zach Bitter (53:47.45) poor timing and I had to cancel that project. But in terms of it like sidelining me for a significant period of time, that didn't seem like the case. But I didn't necessarily address the situation the best I could in hindsight. So I got back into things a little bit too soon. I didn't necessarily fix the problem, the root problem of the situation. And I ended up finding myself in a situation where I was like good enough to train and good enough to compete, but I still kind of had some band -aids on issues. And I found myself in this 24 hour event that I was trying to do to qualify myself for the world 24 hour championships. And I found out around like maybe I think it was like 14, 15 hours that like, you know, my, my ankle is just not up for the task. It, I didn't resolve the issue that was there. And because of that, I'm not going to finish this race, or if I do finish this race, I'm just going to compound the issue that I've already created over months and months of just not. Brett (54:35.367) Hmm. Zach Bitter (54:46.426) doing the right thing, essentially. So I had to just say, all right, I'm cutting it off now, completely hitting the reset. Let's go back to square one. Let's fix this issue and then progress further into the, you know, I had to go back to fix, fix the mistake I made prior and kind of like, um, get myself back to where I needed to be. So that, that race, I think really highlighted that for me. That was like, kind of like the, the, the aha moment of like, You can't pretend like this isn't an issue anymore. You need to go back and fix this entirely, not just partially, if you want to be doing this for, you know, maybe another 10 years. So, you know, that was kind of the race that stands out to me that would would have kind of changed the trajectory of where I thought I was going to head in the next year to two years with kind of just the sport in general. Brett (55:27.879) Hmm. Brett (55:40.167) Yeah. And I love that. I love that lesson and I really appreciate you sharing that. I think the lesson that I hear that I would take away from that is that if there is something in just to take it to life, the life level, right? If there's something you want to do, something great, you want to achieve something big, but there's something that might stand in your way that you're not addressing. Like it may be worth the time to go back and address that thing to make sure that you've got the right foundation then to build your success upon so that you don't have to like backtrack. Zach Bitter (56:07.098) Mm hmm. Yeah, yeah. And it's like one of those things like had I just ignored that and just kind of like pushed through and went with the death before DNF and got to 24 hours, I might have gotten far enough where I was like, OK, that was a bad race, but it wasn't it. I can build from it and then get that kind of like glimmer of hope. Because to some degree, it's like it's your strength becoming your weakness. Because I think when people are running ultra marathons consistently for years and years and years, one of their strengths is they're able to take like. Brett (56:09.991) and then restart. Zach Bitter (56:36.73) small amount of hope and build from it. So if that same strength kind of leads you into a negative behavior, or a behavior that's going to create a problem down the road that you're not, you're not seeing, because you're blinding yourself with by latching yourself to that small glimmer of hope versus actually just looking at the like, realistic nature of things and saying, Okay, I need to really, really be honest with myself here and make the right decision. You know, I think that's kind of the spot I was at that race. And, you know, so So far, I'm favoring that I made the right decision. Brett (57:12.967) Yeah, yeah, and I think that's, you know, that's all we can do is like we make the best decision with the data that we have and we learn and we continue that process. We started over again. So it sounds like you made the best decision that you could with at the time. Zach Bitter (57:23.898) Yeah. Yeah. And it's also one of those things, I think, like, if you're in the sport long enough, you do a bunch of these races, you're going to see a lot of different outcomes and a lot of different scenarios, and you're going to learn to appreciate all of them for one reason or the other. And it's sort of like if you keep doing it, eventually you're going to be you're going to be exposed to this hurdle or this potential situation and have to figure a way around it. You're not necessarily like, you know, I had an identity for a while there where I was like, I'm just one of those runners who can just train like a workhorse and never get hurt. Like it was just like, that's who I am. That was a kind of an identity that I carried. And then I kind of like went from that to like, man, I have to really be careful around some of this stuff or I'm going to be the runner. I'm going to, my identity is going to completely switch to the guy who's always getting hurt during a buildup or during a race if I don't correct this. So, um, yeah, no, it's a, it's, it's interesting. You just, and some of it's just the process too. It's like, you know, I'm 38 now, I'm not 28 anymore. So, Brett (57:59.367) Hmm. Brett (58:12.967) Yeah. Zach Bitter (58:21.914) You got to do things differently as you get older and you have to be more mindful of different things and kind of grow with yourself versus try to always do things the same way. Brett (58:34.983) Yeah. Was there anything else that you felt like along the journey? So you talked about having to kind of let go of a certain identity or a certain version maybe of yourself. Were there any other sort of versions of yourself that you found that you had to let go of along the way in order to be successful? Zach Bitter (58:48.89) Um, yeah, it's a good question. Uh, I mean, yeah, yeah, I do actually have one. I think like what I learned and to some degree I got really fortunate with this one because I did have a lot of interest in the sport outside of just the one, the spot that I'm probably better at, which is those more flat, runnable controlled kind of hunter mile type setups is, I mean, there's a whole range of different stuff. I mean, there's like, There's an endless number of scenarios between different environments, different weathers, different terrains that you can train and race these things from like mountain technical descends to like what I've done in the past. These 400 meter track timed events and things like that. I've always been interested enough in like the kind of a wide enough range of those where I get excited to try to do some stuff that are maybe not my best skill set, but are still fun to do. Uh, but I very much like. Historically, earlier on, I had a harder time saying like, okay, I'm going to put the chasing a hundred mile fast controllable setting on the back burner for maybe a half a year and just focus on something totally different. When I had done that before that, it was kind of just on accident where I was just like, oh, here's a cool event that I'm going to just do and take a little break from. It was less. It was less like intentional. Whereas around 2019, I started getting more intentional with that. Whereas like, okay, After it is actually a race in 2018, I had a bad experience with a, uh, with a timed event that I was trying to, again, chase the world record at. And I was just like, you know, I dropped out, I dropped out at 60, like around 60 miles. And it was just like, I walked away thinking like, I need a reset. Like there's something I didn't at the time necessarily pinpoint exactly what's going on, but I was like, I need something different. Cause right now, if I just go back and do what I was doing before, I'm going to get the same outcome. So I just. totally trained for something different. I trained for the San Diego a hundred mile instead, which is a trail a hundred mile race that has a lot of variety in it. And I didn't know it necessarily at the time, other than just accepting like I need something different. But what I needed was just to kind of put the whole goal of trying to PR in the hundred mile or break the hundred mile world record totally on the back burner where it wasn't even something I was considering in that training block. Cause there's just no way I'm running anywhere near the times I went on a track on the San Diego a hundred course. So when I finished that race, Zach Bitter (01:01:10.458) and kind of went back and started building up for more runnable races again. I was just like kind of hit with this this sensation of like, oh, now I see what was happening there. I was just kind of like burnt out on the the the rigors and the the similarities of what I was doing time and time again. And by doing something that still was very much running, still very much a passion of mine, but just in a completely different environment. gave me the mental reset I needed to kind of really kind of focus and enjoy the work that was going to be required to go and run a fast controlled 100 miler. So I credit that to actually running the 1119 was kind of stepping away from it first. Brett (01:01:57.959) It's a fascinating perspective. Zach, as we're starting to wrap up here, is there anything that you would want to share about the sport of ultra marathon with people who may not be as familiar with it? Zach Bitter (01:02:07.834) Yeah, I think it's like, you know, the sport of ultra running, it's a community, you know, it's a community that has put a lot of pride in just like, kind of helping people who are new to it, that people are, for better or worse, they're not shy about giving you advice. So don't be afraid to listen to people, but also remember, there are a lot of anecdotes out there. So like, just because it worked, just because grilled cheese sandwiches at mile 70 worked for the guy you're talking to doesn't necessarily make grilled cheese sandwiches at mile seven is going to work for you. but just recognize that the people in the sport are likely going to be more than willing to help you out along the way. So, you know, finding some structure so that you can practice the stuff you're going to do on race day is a great way to kind of like tease out what may or may not work for you versus what you were told was going to work by, you know, a group online or something like that. I think as a sport kind of continues to reach masses, like working with a coach, Uh, is, is going to be useful because you work with a coach and you likely are working with someone who's seen a variety of successes and a variety of failures. And they kind of come in knowing like the grilled cheese sandwich at miles 70 may or may not work for you versus it's definitely going to, or definitely not going to. And they can kind of help you figure out whether that is the case or not, or at least narrow down the list of things you should consider and the things you shouldn't so that you're not playing as much trial and errors as you will, if you just go about it on your own. Um, So yeah, I mean, it's a wide open sport too. I mean, you can do everything from a 50K up above 10 ,000 feet elevation. You can do six day events where you're on this short flat loop and you're just out there for six days seeing how far you can get and everything in between. So, like also just ask yourself, what do you actually want to train for? Like, what do you want the inputs to be? And you can pick an event that kind of matches those nicely. Brett (01:03:56.103) Yeah. Brett (01:04:04.103) I love that. And Zach, you mentioned your coaching earlier. One thing that I wanted to sort of ask or clarify for people listening is, is that only specifically for people who are running ultra? Is that for anyone who's interested in running? What does that look like if there is someone who's listening who is interested in reaching out about coaching? What does that look like with you? Zach Bitter (01:04:22.682) Yeah. Yeah. So I actually coach pretty wide range of runners. They're not all ultra runners. It usually skews that direction just because of what I do. More people are probably interested in engaging with me versus someone else if they're training for something at a shorter distance. But I know I, I've worked with people from five kilometers all the way up to 250 mile races and things like that. So I've got a lot of options. Like I've got my, my individual. coaching where it's like one -on -one where we just work together specifically on whether you're training for a 5k or a 250 mile or something in between. And then, um, right now I'm putting a little more emphasis because my one -on -one coaches are pretty saturated right now. Uh, I've got a group option too, where I've got this full catalog of training plans that actually range from 5k up to 200 plus miles. And then they have individual levels within those. So it's like this catalog of, uh, kind of like static approaches that follow my philosophy. And we have a group. And if you join that group, you have access to that whole catalog. So whether you're on one side of that spectrum or the other, somewhere in between, you get a plan and then you get group meetings where I'm there leading those. You can come and ask questions, ask for plan adjustments because they are static. And most people need those to be adjusted if they want to really personalize those. And then we can learn from each other too, because we have such a wide variety of people in there that are all having questions. I find like of the questions I get like, somewhere around like 80 % of them are something where like everyone actually probably can get value from hearing this question and answered or turned into a topic more or less. So I've got people who are like, I know I don't know much and I need to learn, but I don't even know where to start. They do so well in that sort of setting because like they don't know what questions to ask, but they come to some of the group meetings and it's like, Oh, well, the three questions they got to answer and answer there. I needed to hear that. I just didn't know yet. And then that starts generating an appetite for. for questions that they actually do know they have. And I really like that setting too, because it kind of has the community base in into it. And it's like learning, it's sort of kind of similar to what I was saying before with the school structure that I ended at before I stepped away from teaching where it's like, yeah, I have like this process that I like, but there's gonna be a lot of potential like deviations from it given the right scenario. And we're here as a group, let's figure out what to do here in this situation together. Brett (01:06:17.095) Yeah. Zach Bitter (01:06:43.194) and work through it and get you to the finish line with your goals in reach. Brett (01:06:52.487) Yeah, that's great. So if anyone listening does have an interest, I think this group coaching is a phenomenal option. And like Zach said, you could also reach out about individuals. Sounds like he's pretty capped up at this point, but definitely, definitely reach out regardless if you are looking to improve your running, if you're training for a specific event. I think Zach's a phenomenal resource for that. Zach, what is next for you, man? What do you got going on? Zach Bitter (01:07:15.148) Yeah, so I've got a fun racing season this year. So I actually have a race coming up this weekend called the Mad City 100K. And my goal there is essentially to get a fast enough split for 100K to qualify for the World Championships, which is going to be in India in December this year. So if that all goes well, and I get on that team, I'll probably do that in December. The race I'm actually peaking for right now is the same race that I ran 1119. for a hundred miles in, in 2019 at the Olympic training facility, the Pettit Center in Milwaukee, Wisconsin. And that's in, that's in June, mid to end June. It's actually 10 days worth of events. You can kind of like pick a spot within it. So that's why I don't give you an exact date. I haven't actually picked which date I'm actually going to do it at, but my goal there will be to try to run a fast hundred miles there. And that's kind of the one I'm more or less structuring most of my training around. Brett (01:07:59.463) Wow. Brett (01:08:11.335) That's awesome, man. That's super exciting. For people that want to look you up, where is the best place to find you? Zach Bitter (01:08:14.458) Yeah, if you go to my website, Zachbitter .com, that has links to everything like my social media, my podcast, coaching services, you know, prior episodes I've been on and things like that. In terms of social media, I'm most active on Instagram and X and Instagram is just at Zach Bitter and X is at Zbitter. Brett (01:08:36.871) Awesome. That's perfect, man. We'll be sure to link to all of that in the show notes. Anything else that you want to mention while we have you here today? Zach Bitter (01:08:41.082) Just thanks for having me on Brett. It's always fun to talk to people about ultra marathon running, my experience, and hopefully get a few people out there on the race starting lines and then eventually to the finish lines. Brett (01:08:56.039) Yeah, absolutely. You've got, you've got me inspired too. I'm like, man, I've got to, I've got to pick running back up. I've been on the weightlifting circuit for a little while. So I'm like, I think it's time. I know I'm like, I'm ready for a change though. I need a little bit of variety. So this has been inspirational for me. And I'm like, I think I'm going to, I think I'm going to get out for a run. I think it's time. Zach Bitter (01:08:59.354) That's a fun one too. Zach Bitter (01:09:09.658) Right on, awesome. I'm glad that's the case. Brett (01:09:17.223) All right, Zach. Well, thanks again for the time today and we'll connect again soon. Good luck with your, with your year of races. That's exciting. Zach Bitter (01:09:20.666) Absolutely, take care, Brett. Brett (01:09:26.151) All right, bye.