0:00

So I used to go to this bar when I

0:02

was in college, when I came home from Alaska, called

0:04

Chill Coot Charlie's. And their motto

0:06

was, we cheat the other guy and pass the savings on

0:09

to you. I go, if you think the

0:11

owners are going to save millions

0:13

and millions of dollars on rookie wages

0:16

and just willy-nilly pass them to the veterans,

0:19

you guys are stupider

0:20

than I think.

0:25

Hey, everybody. What's cracking? Welcome

0:27

to the Jim Rohn Podcast and welcome to episode 290.

0:35

My guest today is one of my all-time favorites. I

0:37

love this guy.

0:38

Absolutely love this guy. And

0:40

if you've ever heard any of our conversations,

0:42

you know exactly why. He is a three-time

0:45

Super Bowl champ, a two-time pro bowler.

0:47

He played 12 years in the trenches. He has

0:50

been a fixture in the media for even longer.

0:52

He is longtime NFL offensive lineman,

0:55

Mark Schlereth. These

0:57

days, you can find Mark on 104.3 The Fan in Denver,

1:00

also on NFL on Fox, where he brings

1:03

outstanding color commentary on the weekly.

1:05

He's also got a great podcast. And he's

1:08

about to bring that great analysis right

1:10

here to the original side hustle.

1:12

So let's not waste time. Let's get

1:14

right into it. It's episode 290

1:17

with three-time Super Bowl champ

1:19

and stud, Mark Schlereth. And

1:21

it's coming at you right now.

1:30

Absolutely awesome to have you back, Mark. Given

1:32

your schedule, and I appreciate how much you

1:34

have to work and how much you want to work. I

1:37

appreciate this conversation. I appreciate you. Stink,

1:39

how you doing, man? Man, I am, Jim, I'm great, man. I'm

1:41

having a great time. I

1:43

always say I got

1:45

into the radio and the television business to entertain

1:47

myself.

1:48

So like if you guys don't like it, tough.

1:51

I don't give a, I just don't give a crap.

1:54

I'm having a great time. So that's kind of where I'm

1:56

at. You're the absolute best, man. I

1:58

actually, I am enjoying it.

1:59

a lot and I am entertaining a lot but I

2:02

love that approach. So Mark, why don't we talk about that

2:04

showdown Monday night, Kansas City and

2:06

Philadelphia rematch to the Super Bowl. Really

2:09

interesting game. Philadelphia finds a

2:11

way to grind that one out. So does that game tell

2:13

you more about Philadelphia or about Kansas

2:15

City?

2:16

Probably for me it's probably

2:18

more about the Chiefs and

2:21

the lack of offensive proficiency

2:24

that they have found. You know, it's really

2:26

interesting to me because obviously, you know,

2:28

there's a ton of drops that leave the league in drops.

2:32

There's Travis Kelce and if you take Travis Kelce out

2:34

of the equation, like how much

2:36

other production do they get from

2:38

other places that don't

2:41

wear 87? And the answer is not

2:43

a whole lot. And you know,

2:46

it's really interesting to me because I

2:48

look at Andy Reid and I look at the way

2:50

he has operated and he's a great coach

2:53

but he is truly adverse to

2:55

the running game. He truly doesn't

2:57

like the running game. Now they run the ball well

3:00

but they run the ball well on

3:03

their terms, like when they're in

3:05

favorable situations. And

3:08

to me, being a great running team

3:11

means we need to be able

3:13

to run the ball when everybody

3:15

in the stadium knows we're going to run it, the defense

3:17

knows we're going to run it

3:19

and we know we're going to run it.

3:21

And yet there's nothing you can do about

3:23

it. And it's interesting, you know, everybody talks

3:25

about the scoring being down. It's the lowest it's

3:28

been and shoot over

3:30

a decade, I believe, maybe two decades.

3:33

But it's way down and

3:36

a lot of that is I watch teams

3:39

line up in the red zone with a

3:41

too high safety, middle of the field, open

3:43

look. And in my day,

3:46

we would look at that like disrespectful.

3:50

Like if you're going to line up in two safeties, we're

3:52

going to cram this shit right down your throat.

3:55

And there's nothing you can do about it. And

3:58

we're going to make you get into a single. high

4:00

safety so we get access one

4:02

on one to the outside and we looked

4:04

at that like, are you kidding me? If we

4:06

walked in line of scrimmage and you're trying to play a too

4:09

high safety look on us, we're

4:11

like, that is disrespectful and

4:13

teams today. They can't do anything

4:16

about it.

4:17

Defenses defend you with a light box.

4:19

Even though you have favorable numbers in the running

4:21

game, they stop your run game because

4:24

teams don't believe in it and they don't work on

4:26

it. Like they need to work on it. I think that's awesome.

4:28

I think that's awesome. Back in the day, that was

4:30

an affront. That was an affront to you. But

4:33

watching that game though, Monday night, Mark, like Philadelphia

4:36

is not an easy team to run on. Pacheco

4:39

was running with authority. They're having success

4:41

in the first half. Why not just keep doing

4:44

it? Why not keep at it when it is

4:46

working? Yeah.

4:47

Well, because you know what happens

4:49

is as teams start to adjust

4:52

and say, we're going to take this away. Now

4:55

here's, here's my point to all of that.

4:57

And it's a great question because they did run it well.

4:59

And Pacheco was like, he was going on.

5:02

Well, you're basically defending

5:05

the past and you're giving that stuff

5:07

up and tell all of a sudden you're saying, Hey man, we're getting

5:09

run through like crap through a goose,

5:12

so we're going to have to bring that extra

5:14

defender in there. And there's a lot

5:16

of teams that will look at that and say, okay,

5:18

now all we want to do is throw

5:20

it and I still am a believer

5:23

in, yeah, I get that you're going

5:25

to have access throwing the football, but

5:28

we still have to keep them honest. We still

5:30

have to get them biting on play action stuff. And

5:33

we still have to be able in eight

5:35

man fronts to be able to know

5:37

how we're going to run the ball in those

5:39

situations as well. Um, and

5:42

I've always said this about Andy, I think he's a brilliant coach,

5:45

but I have always philosophically

5:47

disagreed with him on his

5:49

like lackluster or lack

5:52

of, of, of care when

5:54

it comes to running the ball. You know, it's funny, Jim,

5:57

I've had, um, several

5:59

opportunities to continue. for different teams around the

6:01

league. And so I go out to

6:03

one team and they say, hey, you know,

6:05

you were an expert in the wide zone and

6:08

you played for the godfather of wide zone and

6:10

Alex Gibbs and we really want to

6:12

implement the wide zone, we want to become

6:14

proficient, we want to become experts at

6:17

it. And I'm like, oh, that's

6:19

awesome. I go, do you really want to do that? Yeah,

6:21

yeah, yeah, that's what we want to become.

6:24

And that's what we have you here to

6:26

do. Like, that's what we want to do. I go,

6:29

okay, but do you want to run the ball? Yeah,

6:31

yeah, yeah, that's why we brought you out here. I said,

6:33

but do you want to run the ball? Right.

6:37

And then he's getting irritated with me and goes, yeah, I want to run the

6:39

ball. I really want to run the ball. And I go,

6:41

but do you? I think because here's what

6:43

I hate about you. You'll run it

6:45

three times in a row for two yards per

6:47

carry and you'll throw your

6:49

hands up in the air and say, oh

6:52

my gosh, we can't run the ball. Meanwhile,

6:54

you'll throw seven incompletions in a row

6:56

with your crappy quarterback and not even think twice

6:59

about it. And I go, what's

7:01

the disconnect? The disconnect

7:04

is we don't really want

7:06

to run the ball. We want to throw

7:08

the ball because throwing the ball is sexy

7:11

and doing the dirty work and the boring stuff

7:13

isn't. And boring is what

7:16

wins. Boring is what sets

7:18

you up for years and years of consistency

7:21

and championship level football. And

7:24

there's very few people that have the patience

7:27

to deal with the boring, the disappoints

7:29

to deal with the boring. Look,

7:32

that's exactly what you've made your career on

7:34

both on and off the field. Boring

7:36

may not sell, but boring wins

7:39

and winning is supposed to sell. Hey Mark, listen,

7:41

they may not want to run the ball. They may tell

7:43

you we want to run the ball, but we know they're not committed

7:45

to running the ball. But I know

7:47

nobody wants to drop the ball. The

7:49

hell do you explain all those drops

7:51

from that team? Is it the players?

7:53

Is it contagious? How do you explain that

7:55

many drops?

7:57

Yeah, you know, I think that's one

7:59

that... is one, you

8:01

just really can't explain it. And two,

8:04

I mean, I guess I would look at that and

8:06

say, well, where's your level of concentration?

8:09

Where's your level of discipline

8:12

when it comes to those things? Like,

8:15

it's inexplicable. They lead the league in

8:17

drops and dropped the touchdown.

8:20

They dropped the touchdown over the top late in the game last

8:23

night, but, you know, it's just one of those

8:25

things. That's just your job. You

8:27

got to do your job. You know,

8:30

it's interesting, and I always kind of equate it back

8:32

to what I know and what I did. And

8:35

if you miss that many blocks, you'd

8:37

never get to play again. Like, that

8:39

would be over. And on top of it,

8:42

like, if I miss a block

8:45

and I get Elway hit, you

8:47

think I'm going to hear about it? You think that, how

8:49

long does that fly? How many times do I get to get that

8:51

guy hit before I no longer

8:54

get to play? Like, there's got to

8:56

be that level of commitment and

8:58

that level of, like, to

9:00

me, paranoia and fear of

9:03

not doing your job. And that

9:05

one is one that I don't understand. And every

9:08

receiver that I was ever around always

9:11

were like, hey, man, if it hits me anywhere close

9:13

to the hands, I got to catch

9:15

it. And if I don't catch it, man, that is

9:17

like, it's a cardinal sin. I don't know

9:19

what's going on there, but they

9:22

certainly, if they don't fix it, then they're going

9:24

to get bounced when playoff time comes around. No

9:26

doubt.

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10:45

Listen, you made the point Mark that teams

10:49

back in the day and even now would call

10:51

you and you would consult. Now for

10:54

instance, Sean Payton, you and he go

10:56

way back. He called you in the summer of 2010,

10:58

a few months after he won the Super Bowl in New Orleans.

11:01

You were still at ESPN at that time. What do you

11:03

remember about that call? What did he ask you?

11:07

He wanted me to come in and talk to his

11:09

football team about going

11:11

back to back winning back to

11:13

back championships and the

11:15

commitment level that it takes and

11:17

the mentality that you have

11:20

to have when

11:22

instead of chasing, you're being the chase. And

11:25

that's kind of where our relationship really

11:28

started. And you know, we've been fairly connected

11:30

ever since. But but yeah,

11:32

that's what he flew me in there to talk about. And

11:34

it was so funny because you know,

11:37

I'm there and he brings me into his office

11:39

and grabs all this tape. Jim,

11:41

he's like, hey, come sit down, sit down. And

11:43

he's showing me tape of our team, 97,

11:46

98 Broncos and Mike Shanahan. And

11:51

he goes, all right, now watch, watch, you know, Howard Griffith,

11:53

our TD is going to motion outside the formation.

11:55

Outside the wide as wide receiver. And

11:58

he's like, this was the first time like

12:00

Mike Shanahan brought the stuff you

12:02

see today is all

12:05

derived from those teams. Mike Shanahan

12:08

doing this, he goes, that was the first

12:10

kind of indicator of, hey, are they a man

12:12

or zone? Do they bump coverage out? Or does the

12:14

does a linebacker follow the running back? And he goes,

12:17

you know, as simple as that seems, Mike was

12:19

the first guy to do this stuff. And

12:21

the stuff that is being done right now

12:24

in the National Football League by LeFlore,

12:26

by Kyle Shanahan, by McVeigh

12:30

winning a Super Bowl, by like, by

12:32

probably 60% of the league

12:34

right now is running a derivative

12:37

of Mike Shanahan's offense that he

12:39

started here in the mid

12:42

90s in Denver. And, you know,

12:45

to me, I understand the political

12:47

nature of Hall of Fame. But

12:49

if 60% of the teams are running

12:51

a derivative that offense, and

12:53

it all stems from what we were doing back

12:56

in those days, I

12:59

find it almost laughable

13:01

that a guy that won two Super Bowls and had the success

13:04

he has is getting bounced

13:06

over in the Hall of Fame voting year in and year

13:08

out. All right, so you beat me to it. I was going there next,

13:10

of course, if you revolutionize the game,

13:13

and if 60% of those teams are running

13:15

a derivative or running what he had,

13:18

what's political about it? Why is he

13:20

not in the Hall of Fame?

13:22

I like I wish I could tell

13:24

you, I don't know, you know, they keep they

13:27

keep going, because you're in that coaches

13:29

that, you know, that the

13:32

coaches section and the contributors

13:35

to the game section. And

13:37

I'm not saying the guys who have gone

13:39

in don't deserve to go in because they do.

13:41

And Mike

13:43

will eventually go in and I look forward

13:45

to the day I can go celebrate that.

13:48

But yeah, I mean,

13:50

it's silly to me, like if you deserve

13:52

to go in and put the guy in and not that

13:54

Jimmy Johnson doesn't deserve

13:56

to go in but I mean, you look at the win

13:58

totals that Mike had that versus Jimmy Johnson

14:01

and the length of the career

14:04

and the championships. Now I know he, contributor

14:07

wise, Jimmy did all those things when

14:09

he traded away Herschel Walker

14:11

and he revamped the draft

14:13

and he did all that stuff. So he certainly

14:15

is deserving,

14:17

but my Shanahan is deserving

14:19

and I know he will go in, but

14:22

I just think he should have gone in right off the bat. So

14:24

I'm curious, when I finished that thought, when Sean Payton brought

14:26

you in and he wanted you to tell the team the

14:28

difference between being the hunted

14:31

and hunting, what exactly was your message

14:33

to that team? Well,

14:35

my message, my message is once you win

14:38

a championship, you

14:41

know, oftentimes things can pull

14:43

a team apart. You know, it's that

14:45

I get my money. Am I getting my shine?

14:48

And if things you weren't worried about

14:50

when you were chasing oftentimes

14:52

derail guys when they're defending

14:55

like, Hey, well, I want, I didn't

14:57

get voted into the Pro Bowl. I deserve to go to

14:59

a Pro Bowl last year. I, the guys are worried

15:01

about the wrong thing. And then guys, the

15:03

attention to detail. Oh, there's everybody's

15:06

pulling at you. You know, Hey, do you want to come do this

15:08

speaking engagement? You want to do this charity event,

15:10

that charity event. And the

15:12

bottom line is all that stuff can

15:15

work to derail you from the

15:17

goal. You have the task at hand. And

15:20

so my biggest message to people

15:22

is having an attitude

15:25

of, of being a servant. And,

15:27

you know, Jim, I don't know if I've ever told

15:29

you this, but I was retired

15:32

as a junior in college because of the injury

15:34

issues that I had going through college,

15:37

which positions came back first

15:39

off, beg the university to let me

15:41

come back. The university of Iowa, let me come back and play

15:43

my senior year, actually signed

15:46

papers to limit their liability

15:48

towards me as an injury risk to

15:50

be able to come back and play played

15:52

my senior year at a different position that I hadn't

15:54

played. Then I showed

15:56

up. I didn't have an agent. I didn't have, I

15:59

didn't have any. No agent, no,

16:01

like nobody. And,

16:04

you know, ultimately, the goal of my

16:06

childhood dream of becoming a professional football player,

16:08

look like it was at a stand. And one

16:10

of my teammates, a guy by the name of Marvin Washington,

16:14

called me up one day, one night

16:16

and said, Hey, man,

16:17

you know, such and such team, the Bengals are coming to

16:19

work me out tomorrow morning at 7am. Why don't you show

16:21

up to my workout.

16:23

And so Marvin really

16:26

taught me about Marvin

16:28

taught me about being a servant. And

16:31

I showed up to his workout, and

16:33

I literally blew Marvin away in

16:35

pretty much every category, you could blow a guy

16:38

away as far as measurables are

16:40

concerned. Two days later, he

16:42

called me again, invited me to another workout. Two

16:44

days later, after that, he invited me to another

16:47

he probably invited me to seven or eight of his

16:49

workouts.

16:50

And I blew him away in every one of his workouts.

16:52

And he kept inviting me to those workouts.

16:55

And eventually I got on the radar of teams.

16:58

And I got drafted by the Redskins in the 10th

17:00

round, he went to the Jets in the sixth

17:03

round, he was touted as a second or third rounder,

17:05

I probably cost him four rounds in the draft,

17:07

just because I whipped his ass in

17:10

the workouts. And the bottom line

17:12

is, if it wasn't for Marvin Washington,

17:15

I would not have played the National Football

17:17

League. But the cool part of the story

17:20

is I'm sitting in the training room after he won Super

17:22

Bowl 32. You know, and I'm, I'm

17:25

sure I had some type of surgery or whatever. And so

17:27

I'm rehabbing a surgery, I'm sitting in the training

17:29

room and Mike Shanahan comes down with a piece of paper

17:31

in his hand. He said, Hey, we need a rotational

17:34

defensive lineman. He goes,

17:36

I don't really, it's not so much about having

17:38

picking the best one. He was I want

17:40

the best dude that fits the personality of our

17:42

football team. And he hands me a list

17:45

that had about seven or eight guys on it. The

17:47

first guy I saw that I recognize Marvin

17:50

Washington. I said sign

17:52

him. Mike says done walk

17:54

back up to his office. A couple days later, Marvin's

17:57

part of our team and Marvin and I went

17:59

on to win. went on to win Super

18:01

Bowl 33 together as members

18:03

of the Denver Broncos. So I don't play the

18:05

National Football League if it isn't for Marvin Washington.

18:08

And Marvin doesn't ever win a championship in

18:10

this league if it's not for me. And

18:12

I learned that, I learned that servantship

18:15

attitude from Marvin Washington

18:18

who was willing to sacrifice even draft

18:20

position to help his friend live

18:22

out a dream.

18:25

Hey clones, what do we want when

18:27

we're craving protein and we need more energy?

18:30

I'll tell you what we don't want. Bars, sugary

18:33

snacks, energy drinks. Nah, we

18:35

want beef. Pure and simple. So where's

18:37

the beef? It's in a package of Old Trapper

18:39

beef jerky. Old Trapper is

18:42

not your father's jerky. Shriveled,

18:44

dry, tasteless. No. Old Trapper

18:46

beef jerky is made from lean strips of steak and

18:49

quality spices that are smoked over a real wood fire.

18:51

So it's tender and tasty. It's never tough. So

18:54

why is it so good? Because Old Trapper

18:57

is a 50-year-old family business

18:59

known for their relentless commitment to quality.

19:02

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19:05

seriously and you can taste it in every single

19:07

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19:10

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19:12

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19:15

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19:17

with you wherever you go to the game, to the gym, to the

19:19

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19:21

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19:23

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19:25

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19:27

for it by name because no other jerky

19:30

compares. Old Trapper with

19:32

your beef. I

19:34

think it's overstated, Mark. I

19:36

mean, I use the phrase, I talk to

19:38

people who spit the phrase back to me,

19:40

but I'm talking like straight chills.

19:43

That is one of the greatest. I've done

19:45

this now 30 years plus. That is one

19:47

of my favorite sports stories I've

19:50

ever heard. And the message is not lost

19:52

on me. Believe me, that is deep. That is profound

19:55

that you're kicking this guy's ass in every

19:58

single workout. And he

20:01

knows it's not helping him. He knows

20:03

it's not helping him. Yet he keeps inviting

20:05

you back. You stay the course,

20:07

you make it, you invite him back. You share

20:09

that ring together. I'm guessing that bond

20:12

never, ever, ever went away.

20:15

Absolutely not. And all the guys

20:17

I played college football with, we are all

20:20

tired of the mouse nuts, as I like to say. And

20:24

those guys, I mean, I love those guys. And

20:26

there's nothing I wouldn't do for any of those guys. And

20:28

the same for them. And

20:31

by the way, to this day, you

20:34

post all the time, I love all your Wisconsin

20:37

pictures, your vacation, family vacation.

20:40

So

20:41

I have said this to so many guys

20:43

that I know now that I played professional

20:46

football with and everything else. And

20:48

they're all like, man, we got to do that. I

20:50

get together with my guys 25

20:53

straight years now. In the summertime,

20:55

we have a Vandal reunion. And

20:58

we go to one of my buddy's cabins, either in Montana

21:01

or in Idaho. And we

21:03

hang out for the weekend. We barbecue,

21:06

we're on the water. We drink beers.

21:08

We tell stories. We get caught up on each

21:10

other's lives. 25 years in a row. And

21:14

we get anywhere from 10 to 15 guys

21:17

at our Vandal reunion. And we do it every

21:19

single summer without fail. And

21:22

it's one of the coolest weekends of

21:25

the year. And every guy I tell that

21:27

to says, man, I want to start doing

21:29

that with my guys, the guys I played college

21:31

football with. And

21:33

we're just so connected that

21:36

way. That's one thing I love about team

21:38

sports. Like other than

21:40

your kids, Jim, where

21:43

else do you ever root for somebody

21:45

else's success like it's your own? Other

21:48

than team sports and your kids, I

21:50

have never met any other work environment,

21:53

any other thing in my life where

21:55

I root for other success like it

21:57

was my own. When somebody scores a touchdown.

22:00

It's as though I scored a touchdown. I've never

22:02

scored a touchdown in all my years of playing

22:04

football. That goes back to the seventh grade,

22:07

high school, college, for 12 years

22:09

professionally. But I celebrated

22:11

everyone like I was the guy who scored.

22:14

And that just doesn't happen

22:16

in life in many other places than team

22:18

sports and raising your own kids. And

22:20

it makes a special bond. And

22:22

it's just an incredible way to live.

22:25

Yeah, but let me ask you this, though, Mark, how much of that—I agree.

22:27

I agree. But how much of that

22:29

is a you thing? How much of that

22:31

is an offensive lineman thing? Because

22:34

even you yourself said that one of your messages,

22:36

your main message to the Saints when they won

22:38

it all is, hey, listen, you can't make it

22:40

about you. You can't obviously get caught up

22:43

in why did I not get the contract? Why

22:45

did I not get that shine? So is it—I

22:48

mean, it's so cutthroat, and everybody's looking for their

22:50

own, so is it unique

22:52

to team sports or only to certain

22:54

individuals?

22:56

I know. I think that the

22:59

good teams, like,

23:02

when you start losing or you're not part of a really

23:05

good culture, I

23:07

think then that probably doesn't

23:09

exist. You know,

23:12

and when you come and you talk to culture

23:14

and culture of your organization, like,

23:17

culture is not static. It's alive. And

23:20

it has to be—it has to be

23:22

worked on. It has to be talked about. It has

23:24

to be—you know, it has to be lived

23:27

every single day. And if it's not,

23:30

then human nature is what's

23:33

the easiest way out? You know, what do

23:35

I have to do to get by? How can I get—you

23:37

know, how can I just get a C essentially,

23:39

right? And so it's one of those

23:42

things—like, I always say this to companies,

23:44

you know, you probably sit down at the board meeting, and

23:46

you guys decide, hey, we're going to go out and we're going

23:48

to create a mission statement

23:50

for our company, right? And our

23:53

mission statement is—and we're going to craft it. We're going to

23:55

all sit around and eat steaks and drink bottles

23:57

of wine. We're going to craft this incredible piece of wine.

24:00

mission statement, we're gonna be so proud of this is

24:02

the mission of our company to serve others

24:04

down, whatever it is, right? And then we're

24:06

gonna post it in our handbook, and we're gonna put

24:08

up on the wall. And then you know what they do? They

24:11

never pay attention to it another

24:14

day in their life. And

24:17

my thought process is every

24:20

day, you've got to live that

24:22

mission statement. And one of the things

24:24

I talked to the Saints about is having your

24:26

own individual mission statement. Who

24:29

do you want to be? What do you want to

24:31

be about? How do you want to serve your teammates?

24:34

How do you want at the end of the day, somebody

24:37

much wiser than me once told me, you

24:39

know, what do you want your eulogy to

24:41

say? What do you want the people who eulogize

24:44

you? What do you want them to say about you? And

24:48

you need to think about that while you're living,

24:50

because the saddest thing in the world

24:52

would be somebody to get up there and say, you

24:54

know, he's a really good dude, and

24:57

not really know you, and

25:00

not really have been in relationship

25:02

with you and involved with you and, and

25:05

been through the battles with you. And

25:08

like, you got to think about who

25:10

you are, who you want to be, what

25:13

you want to be about and and how

25:15

you want to serve those people that

25:17

you play with and those people that you spend

25:20

the majority of your time in a football season,

25:22

you spend more time with them than you do with your own family.

25:25

And that was always super important to me.

25:27

And it was super important to the teams I played

25:29

on that were good.

25:31

It really was it was really a

25:34

company wide mantra, if you will. I

25:36

love that so much of that notion, Mark, that you should

25:39

have your own personal mission

25:41

statement. I've been thinking about this quite a bit. At this

25:43

time in my life, as I think about reinvention

25:45

and climbing another mountain. You know,

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Limitations apply. You

26:18

always hear, since you and I both do this on

26:20

a daily basis, you talk to players, you talk to coaches,

26:23

they're constantly talking about culture, culture,

26:25

culture, the organizational culture, the

26:27

team culture. Lately, I've been thinking quite

26:29

a bit about developing a personal culture.

26:32

Like, I've always had core values, but

26:34

I'm trying to find, like, every time you have a coach come

26:36

in who establishes, like a Dan Campbell in

26:38

Detroit, a new culture, I'm trying

26:41

to establish my own personal culture. You

26:43

mentioned family. I wanna share something with you, and I wanna

26:45

ask you something. So today, today,

26:48

Mark, it's pretty amazing. We have a son,

26:50

Logan, who just started at Colorado. He's

26:52

actually, we dropped him off at Boulder. We went there

26:54

for Parents' Day. He's a freshman at the school

26:57

at CU. He's back for

26:59

the first time for Thanksgiving, and

27:01

my wife, who I've been married to for 26 years, known

27:03

for more than 30, says, I think he should

27:05

come on your show. I'm like, eh. She's

27:08

like, no, I really think he should come on the show. She

27:10

doesn't ask for a lot in that regard, but

27:12

it was really important to Janet, so it was important

27:15

to me. I asked Logan how he felt, and

27:17

he's like kind of a laid-back kid, but played

27:19

high school baseball, loved it. He's

27:22

ambivalent. He's like, if you guys want it, I'll do

27:24

it. If not, I'm cool. He comes in,

27:26

and I've never done this before, he comes in studio

27:28

today, Mark, and we sit down, and we do an interview

27:30

for maybe 30 minutes, 40 minutes, and

27:33

the kid handled it beautifully. Like, I'd

27:35

never been so proud, and listeners are like,

27:38

Rome, we've never seen you like that, man. I've never seen you smile

27:40

like that. You're so proud. I'm like, yes,

27:43

yes. It was literally one of my favorite

27:45

days of radio slash

27:47

TV ever, because my son

27:50

came in and handled himself so

27:52

well. It was so beautiful, man. Like,

27:54

you can't put a price on that, and the reason I

27:56

bring this up is, I know you, I've

27:58

seen you with your kids. I've seen you with your family.

28:01

How is your family? How are

28:04

the kids? Everybody is good. And

28:07

I joke around now because I'm in the next stage,

28:09

the next phase of life with raising grandkids

28:11

and my grandkids, they all three

28:14

of them belong to my son, Daniel, and

28:16

they live 10 doors down for me. So they

28:18

spend as much time at my house as they do at his

28:20

house. And

28:23

I joke with all three of my kids now is

28:25

like, I don't even like you guys anymore. I

28:28

am sold out for my grandkids. So like,

28:31

and it's funny, you know, that there's

28:33

a saying and I don't know who came up with it. But

28:35

the reason that grandparents and grandkids get along so well is

28:38

they have a common enemy and that's

28:40

the parent. And I

28:43

absolutely, I absolutely

28:45

break every rule that my son sets. And

28:48

I'm like, well, listen, dude, I'm in charge of you.

28:51

So like, I don't

28:53

want to hear your rules, man. I'm going to do what I want

28:55

with the grandkids. And it's just

28:57

a man, it's it is just

29:00

such a joy. And it's such a blessing

29:02

to, you know, to have that in

29:04

your life. And, and, you know, not

29:06

that I deserve it, but I'm telling

29:09

you what, I'm so grateful and so thankful

29:11

every day and the opportunity

29:13

to spend time and help mold these kids

29:15

lives and invest in their lives

29:18

and spend that time with them. Jim, I'm I'm

29:20

every day when I'm not traveling.

29:23

So during the season, Monday, Wednesday and

29:26

or Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, I'm in the carpool

29:29

line picking up my granddaughters from

29:31

from school.

29:32

And and I'm like, I

29:34

demand that I go get them.

29:36

And that connection in the carpool

29:38

line with those two girls, I'm the only

29:41

parent slash grandparent. I

29:43

get out of the car every day, rain, sleet, sun,

29:46

snow, doesn't matter. And I meet

29:48

them on the sidewalk down the sidewalk where they come

29:50

out of the building. And like,

29:53

I read this thing and it just it always touched

29:55

me is a man is truly

29:57

blessed when his kids run into his

30:00

arms when he has no gifts to give

30:02

them other than those arms, those

30:04

outstretched arms. And they run and hug

30:06

me. And it's one of

30:08

the most beautiful things. And it's every

30:10

day that I get them in the car

30:13

and then they get to decompress with me about

30:16

how school was and what they did

30:18

and what they learned and who said what.

30:20

And I did it with my own kids as well. They

30:24

didn't take the bus. I always just insisted

30:26

that we drive them because

30:28

it was 15 minutes that I stole from

30:30

them every day. And I got to

30:32

invest in their lives and I got to invest in

30:34

their hearts and I got to invest in

30:37

them as people. And

30:39

it was just a really important thing that

30:42

I did for my kids

30:44

and I did it for me as much as I did for them.

30:46

And then I'm doing with my grandkids right

30:48

now.

30:49

And it's the highlight of my day. Every

30:51

day I jump in the car at 2.30

30:53

my time and

30:54

ride up and sit in the carpool lane

30:57

with my notes that I'm

30:59

prepping the game for. And I sit and

31:01

read for 30 minutes and then I get

31:03

out of the car and greet them every day. And

31:06

it's like I said, it's one of the highlights of my day.

31:08

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31:39

for details. Dude,

31:42

you're intentional man. You've always been intentional.

31:44

Do you ever, ever sit around and

31:46

not do something that I mean

31:48

like every second counts, every minute counts

31:51

because you're still working really hard. I mean you've got a radio

31:53

program, you've got a podcast, you've got your national

31:55

broadcast on the weekends, you have grandkids,

31:57

you have kids. Are you ever wasting?

32:00

any time at all.

32:01

Every night in the airport,

32:04

sometimes I'll sit down for a minute and I'll, uh,

32:06

I'll mix it up with people on Twitter. But other than

32:08

that, yeah, you do. I like that. I like,

32:10

did you enjoy that? I

32:12

do. I love, I love the hate.

32:15

Like, uh, somebody's doing so when I first found this

32:17

business after I retired, I had

32:19

a program director, um, um,

32:22

Don Martin. You probably know Don,

32:24

but yeah, but Don said something to

32:26

me. Cause it's done to me. They just,

32:28

you know, it's like your parents, when your parents say something

32:31

that like my dad used to say all the time, whenever

32:33

I was a kid and I was upset about something

32:36

and somebody got lucky, you know, and somebody did something

32:38

that should have gone to me or whatever. My dad would always say the

32:40

same thing. Luck has the smell of perspiration.

32:43

And that was the end of the conversation.

32:45

He's like, luck has the smell of perspiration. I don't

32:47

want to hear about it. Go to work, right? Just

32:49

go to work. And so, um,

32:52

that always resonated with me, but Don Martin told

32:54

me, he goes, Hey man, let me just tell you how this works.

32:56

He goes, you want 50% of the people that love you

32:59

and 50% of the people that hate your guts.

33:01

And if you do that, you're going to have a successful

33:04

career in media. And it always,

33:06

it always stuck with me because you don't

33:08

have to sensationalize the damn thing. The

33:11

truth is sensational enough. If

33:14

all you do is spew the truth, then

33:16

you're going to have 50% of the people that love you and

33:18

you're going to have 50% of the people on the other side that hate your

33:20

guts because they don't like the truth.

33:22

And, um, and so far it's worked

33:25

pretty well. So I find it fascinating.

33:27

I love reading people that, uh,

33:29

you know, hate you because you were biased

33:32

against my team or whatever. I just think it's funny.

33:34

Makes me laugh. And now see, listen, you, you

33:36

understand that you figured that out. Don Martin, I've had

33:38

a lot of talks with him over the years. I never worked for him

33:41

directly, directly, directly, but I've

33:43

worked with him and I know him, he never

33:45

actually laid that out for me, but I kind of figured

33:47

that out early in my career, right? It didn't matter what

33:49

I said or what I did. X we're going to hate

33:51

and X we're going to love. And I could never, ever control

33:54

that. Anyway, I think that what you just said though, is so

33:56

key Mark, like you and I, the old heads that

33:58

are still doing this and doesn't it's a long time. However,

34:00

however, what we don't do

34:03

and you and I know this about you and I

34:05

know it's about me You've never been one

34:07

to pony punches. You're fearless,

34:10

but you're not saying shit just to say

34:12

shit You're not a hot take artist. You're

34:14

not trying to move the needle. You're just being authentic

34:17

and real I think you can get that 50

34:21

50 if you want it by just saying what's

34:23

on your mind and being real and Being

34:26

thought-provoking without making shit

34:28

up just to make shit up. I got I take that

34:30

that's offensive to me You know what I mean? Yeah.

34:33

Yeah No to me as well, you know and and

34:35

this whole thing like you've seen the video

34:37

of Brady saying hey The the league

34:40

is in it's not as well coached and it's

34:42

not as well played. Yeah, what I'm

34:44

gonna jump in What was your reaction to that?

34:47

Well, I think he's a hundred percent, right? But

34:50

at the same time I would I also countered,

34:52

you know, I tweeted him back on that and I

34:55

also countered with this like 2011 you

34:57

the players in 2011 Agreed

35:02

the collective bargaining agreement their big bargaining

35:04

chip was less practice time This

35:07

time at the facility less time

35:09

working on my crap There's

35:11

a reason that it's not as good as it used

35:14

to be because nobody works at

35:16

it like they used to work at it It's

35:18

not it's not mandatory like I'll

35:21

give you for instance like I was I was in

35:23

Detroit I called Chicago Detroit last weekend

35:25

and Roger Goodell

35:27

was there and so I sit and are

35:29

standing on the sideline You know pregame

35:32

talking to Roger Goodell for about 20 minutes. The first thing

35:34

he says is thinking man Offensive

35:36

line play is not very good. How are we gonna get offensive? Like

35:41

that's why you're concerned right and I go

35:43

the bottom line I know this wasn't you but You

35:47

guys and your last collective bargaining agreement allowed

35:50

less practice time The only way to get

35:52

good at doing something offensive line

35:54

wise

35:55

is by practicing at it and Practicing

35:58

in pads and hitting guys and getting that fit and

36:00

getting that feel and understanding

36:02

the game.

36:03

And you've eliminated that from

36:06

the league. And, you know, the players are so

36:08

stupid because the players thought

36:11

that, hey, man, you know, we're going

36:13

to eliminate this and, you know,

36:15

we're going to get these rookie wage

36:17

scales. That's going to be another thing we're going to do. And

36:20

I told the Players Association when they were talking about it, I

36:22

go, it's the dumbest thing

36:24

you could possibly do. So I used to go to

36:26

this bar when I was in college, when

36:28

I came home from Alaska called Chill Cook

36:30

Charlies. And their motto is, we

36:32

cheat the other guy and pass the savings on to you. I

36:35

go, if you think the owners are going to save

36:38

millions and millions of dollars on

36:41

rookie wages and just willy

36:43

nilly pass them to the veterans, you

36:45

guys are stupider than I think. Like

36:48

you think they're just going to pass the money on? No,

36:50

they're not. And so now you've negotiated

36:53

a less skilled football

36:55

player because you don't practice.

36:58

You're not in the facility. You're not studying

37:00

as much. So you've negotiated

37:02

yourself into being less skilled

37:04

football players. And when you get a little

37:07

bit older, instead of paying extra

37:09

money for that skill, why would

37:11

I get a descending player and

37:13

pay him $2 million when he's descending

37:17

and he's never really learned the game, he's

37:19

defending athletically never really learned the game.

37:22

Why wouldn't I just get an ascending athlete

37:24

that has a lot to learn still and

37:26

pay that guy 500,000 bucks? You know, so

37:30

now you got eight positions that are really well

37:33

paid and then everybody else

37:35

is making league minimum or whatever, or

37:38

close to it. And you've got a bunch of, you've

37:40

got a bunch of young players that couldn't

37:42

play dead in the Western on your roster simply

37:45

to save money. So you could pay the eight guys

37:47

that are getting paid like, you know, like $20

37:49

million receivers. Really? But

37:52

it's the, the, the, the,

37:55

the, the, oh, shoot.

37:58

I can't even say it. The idiots. of

38:01

the way the collective bargaining agreement went.

38:03

So you negotiated less skilled

38:06

players in 2011. And

38:09

then the other thing that I thought was funny

38:11

is, Brady has whined

38:13

for more flags than anybody in the history

38:15

of the National Football League, and now you're

38:18

complaining about, you're talking

38:20

about protecting, if that's what you meant by protecting

38:22

yourself, whining for flags, then you nailed it.

38:24

Yeah, I was gonna say, Mark, what I said on the air

38:26

today was, wow. Like, I had no

38:28

idea this guy had an actual opinion. Like, this

38:31

is so much better than the normal, like,

38:33

cringe and awkwardness and

38:36

cornballedness that I normally get from this

38:38

guy. However, you see the hypocrisy

38:40

in it, right? Like, this guy, this guy's

38:42

complaining about the players not being

38:45

able to, not being tough enough, not being in

38:47

there, not standing in. So, yeah,

38:49

and obviously, the second I played that soundbite on my

38:51

show, the listeners went crazy over

38:54

that very thing. So, let me guess,

38:56

he did not tweet back at you? No,

38:59

no, and you know me, I

39:01

made sure it had the at Tom Brady on

39:03

there, because I'm not gonna subtweet people

39:06

like a lot of people in our business do that

39:08

wanna get a rise, but don't actually

39:10

want any heat on the other end of it. No,

39:13

I get this. So, before you go, and I could do this

39:15

forever, dude, thank you so much for this, I appreciate it

39:17

so much. One non-football

39:19

question before you bounce. You're

39:21

still killing it with your stinking good

39:23

chili brand. I've got a very good friend

39:26

who knew you were coming on, who said he's having

39:28

it tonight. He's in the Denver area. He

39:30

absolutely loves it. For those who do not

39:32

know, how did you find the culinary

39:35

life, or did it find you, and then

39:37

when they go to your website, stinkinggood.com,

39:40

what will they find?

39:42

Yeah, so, it really was

39:44

a buddy of mine, when I was

39:46

playing, and I've always done my own yard work,

39:48

I'm a big landscaper, and I love

39:50

being out there doing stuff. I

39:54

had hurt my knee in training

39:56

camp, and I had to have surgery on it, so.

39:59

No way, Mark. No way, you did? Yeah,

40:01

right. It's so— Thirty times.

40:04

Yeah, so I was, you know, on crutches for

40:06

a couple days. It was in camp, and I couldn't get home to do my yard. So

40:10

this guy did it for me, and

40:12

I found him in the neighborhood like right

40:14

after camp broke, and just to thank him

40:16

for doing it. And he's like, no problem. Hey, I want to bring you some

40:18

food. I'm going to bring you some green chili.

40:21

And I'm a kid from Alaska that went to this

40:23

school, the University of Idaho. I didn't even know

40:25

what green chili was, but I wasn't going to turn down food. And

40:28

so I was like, yeah, whatever. Bring it on. So

40:30

he brings it by the house, and I devour

40:32

it. It's like, oh, so good, right? So

40:35

pork green chili. And so anyhow,

40:38

we became friends kind of, and they eat

40:40

green chili every couple months, and eventually

40:43

say, hey, man, would you go into business

40:45

with me? And I was like, yeah,

40:47

let's give it a whirl. And that's kind of how the

40:50

love affair of that culinary

40:53

green chili started. And ultimately,

40:56

we've been doing it for now, gosh, 20 years. And it's

40:58

been a fun project. It's

41:01

been great, and it's been fairly

41:03

fruitful. But yeah, it was a good

41:05

time. And if you go there, man,

41:08

you can find all kinds of gear and all kinds of stuff. But

41:11

the hot pork green chili or the pork

41:13

green chili is our best

41:15

seller. It's what most real green

41:17

chili aficionados like to buy. I love it.

41:19

Listen, I want to say once again, I

41:21

appreciate this so much because I know your schedule.

41:24

I know your commitments. I know what you have going on. I appreciate

41:26

the friendship. I appreciate the amazing content.

41:29

I appreciate the passion. I

41:31

always get something out of this, man. More than something

41:33

that's good for the podcast. I always get something

41:35

personal out of it. So I appreciate you

41:37

so much, dude. Thank you very much for that. And that was awesome,

41:40

as always. My pleasure,

41:42

but always great connecting with you. Always

41:44

appreciate you, my friends. My man stink. Mark

41:53

freaking Schlerath. How

41:55

great is this guy? takes

42:00

to be invited back to the side hustle for

42:03

multiple visits, that's what it

42:05

takes. We can talk ball for hours

42:07

but we can also talk about anything at all for hours.

42:10

Fascinating guy who I couldn't admire

42:12

or respect any more than I do because he

42:14

always has this great perspective and I always

42:17

appreciate any chance I get to chop

42:19

it up with him. This is why I love this platform

42:22

because I can get loose, stretch out

42:25

and go long form with really interesting

42:27

people that are worth all that time. If

42:30

you're looking for more of that we've

42:32

got plenty of that. In fact 289

42:34

episodes just like that

42:37

they're all done, they all hold up.

42:39

You can give any one of those a spin

42:42

and and I guarantee you'll be happy

42:44

you did. So do this, find

42:47

and smash the subscribe button then

42:49

you'll be notified every single time a new episode

42:51

drops. You never have to go looking for it,

42:53

it will find you instead. Thanks

42:56

for doing so, have a very

42:58

happy and healthy Thanksgiving and I

43:00

will see you next week for episode 291 right here on

43:02

the Jim Rohn podcast.

43:05

Peace.