0:00

Looking for a new high-end mascara

0:02

without breaking the bank? The

0:04

new L'Oreal Paris Panorama

0:06

Mascara gives you a

0:08

high-end lash look in a premium

0:11

gold luxe packaging. It's all about

0:13

panoramic volume and fully fanned out

0:15

lashes. With its tapered

0:17

brush, the new Panorama Mascara catches

0:19

every single lash, giving you the

0:21

false lash look without any of

0:24

the hassle. Say goodbye to

0:26

clumps and flakes because this

0:28

mascara is specially formulated to resist

0:30

them all day with up to

0:32

24-hour wear. And the best part?

0:34

It performs better than luxe mascaras

0:36

at only a fraction of the

0:38

cost. You can buy Panorama Mascara

0:40

on Amazon today. Getting

0:43

the smile and confidence you've been dreaming about all

0:45

from the comfort of your home isn't

0:47

a total mystery with bite clear aligners.

0:50

Just don't be surprised if all your friends

0:52

start asking, what's your secret? Begin

0:55

by ordering your at-home impression kit today for only

0:57

$14.95. Bite clear

0:59

aligners are doctor-directed and delivered to

1:01

your door. Treatment costs thousands less

1:03

than braces. Plus, they offer flexible

1:06

financing, accept eligible insurance, and you

1:08

can pay with your HSA FSA.

1:11

Get 80% off your impression

1:13

kit when you use code

1:15

WONDERY at bite.com. That's byte.com.

1:18

Start your confidence journey today with

1:20

bite. This

1:25

is the Jon Fuegle Sang podcast.

1:31

This is Series XM. I'm Jon Fuegle Sang.

1:34

For the next three hours, we'll be coming at you with

1:36

all the news you can handle, all the hot

1:38

takes to win all your debates at the water

1:40

cooler the next day, maybe a

1:43

little bit of trivia, something approaching comedy, and

1:45

enough smart, moral, brilliant guests

1:48

to elevate the entire proceedings

1:51

far beyond what I have to

1:53

offer. Tonight, Simon Moyes-Smith and Julie

1:56

Francesla will be with us for another installment

1:58

of our Indigenous Voices segment. We

2:01

are very glad that they're going to be with us and you guys

2:03

can talk tonight. You're welcome to call and join us. Also,

2:05

former ambassador Irish Appeiro is here to talk

2:07

about the new edition of his book, The

2:10

Betrayal, how Mitch McConnell

2:12

and the Senate Republicans abandoned

2:14

America. It's a dynamite book

2:16

about how the Senate responded to the

2:19

challenges posed by the Trump administration under

2:21

Trump and of course what happened to Biden as well.

2:24

And it's all about how McConnell thought he could use

2:27

Trump to turn the court to the right and kill

2:29

the Affordable Care Act and cut taxes for the rich

2:31

and he succeeded in

2:33

two-thirds of those goals. I'm

2:35

really thrilled to have Ambassador Shapiro want to

2:37

talk about this book and as always our

2:40

most important guest is you guys. We are

2:42

at 866-997-4748-866-997 grit. That's

2:49

our number around these parts. New

2:51

York appeals court is overturned. Harvey

2:54

Weinstein's 2020 rape conviction after finding

2:56

that the judge for the trial

2:58

handed down some improper rulings. This

3:00

was like the main tentpole

3:02

of the Me Too movement and it really

3:04

changed how business is done in this country.

3:07

There was a wave of allegations against the

3:09

guy. He was sentenced to 23 years in

3:12

jail. Now he's gonna get a new

3:14

trial. He's still serving

3:16

a 16-year sentence for raping

3:19

other people in California. But

3:22

let's see what happens. Go Harvey Weinstein. The

3:24

next amazing thing is he suddenly

3:27

won't need that wheelchair

3:29

anymore. Remember that? It was a

3:31

crazy day in the news today and

3:33

in New York National Enquirer

3:36

publisher David Pecker spent a third day

3:38

on the witness stand as the prosecution

3:40

tried to follow the money in Trump's

3:42

ill-nicknamed hush money trial. College protests in

3:44

support of Palestinians have spread far beyond

3:46

the Ivy League. We've been talking about

3:48

it. There was violence today between police

3:50

and protesters at Emory in

3:52

Atlanta. USC has canceled

3:55

their main graduation ceremony altogether.

3:58

I guess they were afraid of someone... saying

4:01

something sympathetic towards

4:06

commencement? Ah, in a

4:08

statement elsewhere, TikTok parent

4:10

company ByteDan said they would rather cease

4:12

operations in the US than see themselves

4:14

sold off to the highest bidder. And

4:17

a federal judge is dismissed Donald Trump's appeal

4:19

of the Eugene Carroll defamation verdict upholding the

4:22

$83 million judgment

4:24

he still owes her. 20% of

4:26

all milk samples tested nationwide show

4:28

traces of H5N1 bird flu and

4:30

former Trump surgeon general Jerome Adams

4:33

tells Business Insider it has spread.

4:35

The delayed government response is reminding him

4:38

eerily of early 2020.

4:40

All right, let's let's get to the big

4:42

story of the day. It's the Supreme Court

4:44

and I'm dying to know what you guys thought.

4:47

I never really thought

4:49

I would see it get this far.

4:51

You know, after seeing a racist reality

4:54

TV show landlord clown become

4:56

president, you think, well,

4:58

we've jumped the shark. America has gone full

5:00

trash. We can't get more bizarre than this.

5:02

And then you have a

5:05

day where an attorney for a former

5:07

president is arguing in front of the

5:09

Supreme Court that a president

5:12

should be immune from prosecution if

5:14

they have their political opponents murdered.

5:18

That was what today was. I mean,

5:20

today was a stupid, stupid

5:24

argument taken to great

5:26

lengths for no

5:28

reason other than to help the defendant hit

5:31

the snooze button on justice. The

5:33

argument today in Trump versus United States was

5:35

today was a bad day for Jack Smith.

5:38

Today was a bad day for the Department

5:40

of Justice and today was a bad day

5:42

for any American at any point in history

5:45

who believes the president of the United States

5:47

is not a king. It's

5:49

a bad day for anyone who thinks the president

5:51

should be subject to prosecution

5:53

if they commit a crime. The Supreme

5:55

Court, Axios had a cute headline. They

5:57

said the Supreme Court appears poised to hand former

5:59

President. In trouble when in. His strategy of

6:02

delaying is legal troubles. but that said, he's

6:04

he's already had a when. The.

6:06

Hearing today was the when.

6:09

This is pertaining to Donald Trump's January

6:11

Six case, which I have said for

6:13

a is the most important court case

6:16

of our lifetimes. It is the federal

6:18

indictment of Donald Trump for attempting to

6:20

overturn the result of a presidential election,

6:22

and it's centered around how he incited

6:25

a violin insurrection against his own government.

6:27

The Federal case for election interference and

6:29

it was supposed to begin in March.

6:31

The fact that we are having this

6:34

hearing that you can't try him for

6:36

crimes because president's can't commit crimes. And

6:39

we're having this about fifty five days or

6:41

so after the trial was supposed to begin.

6:44

It's how Trump is already one. It's

6:46

a stupid argument by a stupid man. he's

6:48

trying to run up o'clock so we can't

6:50

be convicted before the election. But the concept

6:52

of immunity is cells. I mean, it's presidential.

6:55

Immunity goes against one of our foundational principles

6:57

that no one is above the law. Not

6:59

even powerful people are above the loss. But

7:01

it turns out they are. And it turns

7:03

out this is a lie We teach children

7:05

to make them feel our country is not

7:07

an aristocracy. And before the trial this morning,

7:09

here's com over Caligula. He took the Big

7:12

Max out of his mouth and the spoon

7:14

out of his nose long enough to spit.

7:16

Out a few words about President

7:18

He me and the Supreme Court.

7:25

Reporter. Was

7:35

is. This.

8:00

Really, it's like listening to see and desiccate

8:02

in your bathroom. Isn't it? I'm I'm sorry

8:04

it eyes and at any did you notice.

8:07

He even sound a way to wag.

8:10

His tiny rice like diseased covered

8:12

with scabs junk at the judge

8:14

to violate the gag order one

8:16

more time. Note:

8:19

The Supreme Court seemed a little

8:21

lulu hesitant to totally resolve this

8:23

issue. A presidential immunity. Because

8:25

they don't need to, their job is

8:27

to get from pre elected. And

8:30

to give him the delay he has sought.

8:32

So they had to show up today and

8:34

do something for one day and then do

8:36

nothing until June which will guarantee the public

8:39

won't have the benefit of having a jury

8:41

show us before an election if Donald Trump

8:43

tried to steal the last one. I

8:46

mean right now. The.

8:48

Likelihood. Of. Just.

8:51

One case wrapping before the election

8:53

is the best scenario Donald Trump

8:55

could have wished for. It.

8:58

Looks like Donald Trump's only going to see one

9:00

of his for criminal cases concluded before the election.

9:03

This is why we call it rigged and

9:05

in the same country. This case today would

9:07

have never made it to our supreme court's.

9:09

the fact that this hearing happened, that the

9:12

question. Or whether Us Presidents

9:14

are actually really Monarchs who get

9:16

to legally murder people if they

9:18

feel like it's that. this, even.to

9:21

the Supreme Court. Shows.

9:24

Trump. Or a one. The. Oligarchs.

9:27

The. Aristocrats. Who.

9:29

Want more Trump's Tax cuts? Who won

9:31

more Trump? The Regulation They won more

9:33

Trump Pollution Stats Jobs, Jobs Jobs. They

9:35

want more Trump Class War Against those

9:38

poor, swarthy and working Americans. They are

9:40

going to make sure the American people

9:42

don't get to see a trial. They're

9:44

going to make sure the American people

9:47

don't get to hear evidence before election

9:49

Day. And. by the way justice

9:51

clarence thomas's wife jenny godless if there's

9:53

ever a couple that deserve each other

9:55

we know she was deeply involved in

9:58

those trees in his efforts and And

10:00

yet, and yet Clarence Thomas,

10:03

who should be listed on the NASDAQ

10:05

because it's so easy to buy him,

10:07

has decided he doesn't have to recuse himself.

10:09

At least two of the current justices should

10:11

not be on the Supreme Court at all.

10:14

Brett Kavanaugh lied about many subjects in his

10:16

hearings. Neil Gorsuch has a stolen seat. They're

10:18

illegitimate. Clarence Thomas should have recused himself. I

10:21

mean, usually arguments that are

10:23

heard in late April bring decisions late

10:25

June, early July. The

10:28

court could act fast if they wanted to. We

10:30

know they can act fast when they want to,

10:33

but they do things to benefit the Republican

10:35

Party. They do things to benefit Donald Trump.

10:37

We'll get to that in a minute. Now,

10:39

the justices could still limit the charges he

10:41

faces and delay his trial on election interference

10:43

charges. The court could decide the lower courts

10:46

need to investigate more. The lower courts

10:48

need to investigate if immunity applies to what Trump

10:50

did. They didn't talk about Trump, though.

10:52

They didn't talk about the insurrection. There was no talk of

10:55

January 6th. There was no talk

10:57

of the actual crimes that brought them all here for

10:59

this day. There was no talk about the fact that

11:01

the man who committed these crimes and is saying that

11:03

he's allowed to commit crimes is trying to be president

11:05

again. The point of the

11:07

hearing was an academic jerk-off

11:11

about presidential immunity. All

11:13

it really was was a bunch of

11:15

pot and paid for whores and shills

11:18

slowing down justice to

11:20

help a criminal because

11:23

they like him. They

11:25

like this criminal. Normally, to see something

11:27

slowed down like this, you've got to look over, I don't know,

11:29

maybe the stolen classified

11:32

documents case in Georgia where Donald

11:34

Trump also hired his lawyer. Do

11:37

you see a pattern, my friends? Never before

11:39

have we witnessed this where a

11:41

defendant has hired the judge. A

11:44

defendant has given a job to the judge who is

11:46

judging him, and that judge is

11:48

doing anything they can do to let

11:51

that defendant walk because that

11:53

defendant gave them the gig. We're

11:55

watching it play out. Future generations

11:57

will wonder, how could we? How

12:00

did we allow this? The fact

12:02

that this hearing even happened today

12:04

with three judges who he hired,

12:07

another judge whose wife

12:09

is in on it texting Donald

12:11

Trump's chief of staff the day

12:13

of the terrorist attack that killed

12:16

people at our capital. The

12:18

fact that this hearing even happened is proof of

12:20

corruption. It's proof of obstruction. It's

12:23

proof of collusion. It's proof

12:25

that the American aristocratic class has

12:28

always controlled the power and continues

12:30

to rig justice itself in its

12:32

own favor. Folks, we were founded

12:35

by wealthy white landowning men who

12:37

thought only they should vote because

12:39

that's what freedom was to them.

12:43

And that tradition continues. These

12:45

are aristocrats. They believe in aristocracy and all

12:47

of them from John Roberts on they live

12:49

in a world where they don't have to

12:51

answer to you, they don't have to face

12:54

you, they don't even have to share the

12:56

same breathing space as you. Clarence Thomas has

12:58

got better sugar daddies to fly him on

13:00

vacations. So here at the Supreme Court today,

13:03

Michael Dreeben answered Justice

13:05

Samuel Alito's supposition that hey,

13:08

presidents have a lot of tough responsibilities and sometimes

13:10

they make mistakes. Am I right? Give

13:12

a listen. I mean, presidents

13:14

have to make a lot of tough decisions

13:16

about enforcing the law and

13:19

they have to make decisions about

13:21

questions that are unsettled and

13:23

they have to make decisions based on

13:25

the information that's available. Do you really,

13:27

did I understand you to say, well,

13:29

you know, if he makes a mistake,

13:31

he makes a mistake, he's subject to

13:33

the criminal laws just like anybody else?

13:36

You don't think he's in a special, a

13:39

peculiarly precarious position? He's

13:41

in a special position for a number of

13:44

reasons. One is that he has access to

13:46

legal advice about everything that he does. He's

13:49

under a constitutional obligation to be supposed to

13:51

be faithful to the laws of the United

13:53

States and the Constitution of the United States.

13:56

And making a mistake is not what lands

13:58

you in a criminal. prosecution.

14:01

Great answer, but did you hear Alito

14:04

bending backwards? I mean, good God, this

14:06

poor guy, his job's so hard. What

14:08

if he makes a mistake and spreads

14:11

a lie and a conspiracy with

14:13

false electors to steal the government and launches a

14:15

terrorist attack on our Capitol? I mean, oops, right?

14:17

Come on, cut the guy some slack. Biden

14:20

has gaffes. At one point,

14:23

Justice Sotomayor asked Trump lawyer John Sauer

14:25

if the president decides that his rival

14:27

is a corrupt person and

14:29

he orders the military to assassinate him. Is

14:32

that within his official acts to which he

14:34

has immunity? And Trump's lawyer said that

14:36

could well be an official act, to

14:39

have the military assassinate your

14:41

rival. I

14:43

mean, I mean, that's the president's attorney told

14:46

the Supreme Court that a president

14:48

should have immunity if he orders one

14:50

of his political rivals to be murdered for

14:53

a military coup. I

14:55

really hope Americans start to pay attention to this because

14:58

this was like some

15:00

Star Wars Episode 3, this is how

15:02

democracy dies in the Galactic Senate, crazy

15:04

stuff. I'm waiting to see

15:06

fucking Palpatine show up behind the scene. I mean,

15:09

according to Trump's lawyer, if Trump

15:11

returns to power, he could murder people,

15:13

he could sell military secrets to Russia

15:16

or China, he'd be

15:18

completely immune from prosecution. The

15:20

only president in history who's lost an election,

15:23

the only president who refused to concede he

15:25

had lost an election, the only president in

15:27

history who would

15:29

not participate in the peaceful transfer of power,

15:31

only this one. Now, I

15:33

want you to listen to Brett Kavanaugh,

15:35

who Donald Trump also hired, who

15:37

has no business being on the Supreme Court, and

15:40

I just want you to understand the universe

15:42

these aristocrats live in, where

15:44

they think that Ford's pardon

15:46

of Nixon is considered to be

15:49

a really good thing. Give

15:51

a listen to this and please don't,

15:53

if you're driving, don't

15:55

scream or yank your hair out. Pull

15:57

over first. Here's Brett. and

16:00

knowingly thought. That

16:02

would pollute the literature. How about, I

16:05

think it came up before, President Ford's

16:07

pardon. Very

16:09

controversial in the moment. Yes. Hugely

16:11

unpopular, probably why he lost in

16:13

1976. Yes. Now

16:17

looked upon as one of the

16:20

better decisions in presidential history, I think

16:22

by most people. But by this? If

16:25

he's thinking about, well if I grant

16:27

this pardon to Richard Nixon, could

16:29

I be investigated myself for

16:31

obstruction of justice on the theory that

16:34

I'm interfering with the investigation of Richard

16:36

Nixon? Right-wing criminals

16:38

think it was a good

16:40

decision. Most historians don't. Brett

16:43

Kavanaugh is not an historian. But Brett Kavanaugh

16:45

lives in an aristocratic bubble. And

16:48

by the way, since you brought it up, if

16:50

presidential immunity exists, why

16:54

did Gerald Ford have to grant a full

16:57

pardon to Richard Nixon for

16:59

crimes he may have committed against the government while he

17:01

was president? Right? By your

17:03

own logic, you alcoholic douche.

17:07

If presidential immunity is a thing, then

17:09

Ford never needed to give Nixon a pardon. John

17:13

Yoo, remember him, the torture aficionado

17:15

under the Bush administration DOJ said, Trump

17:17

had much more success than many court

17:19

watchers expected. Only the three liberal justices

17:22

seemed to reject the idea of immunity

17:24

and right. I mean,

17:26

and can I just take a moment

17:28

to say, Democrats, you guys should have been

17:30

screaming for the past year to

17:32

make Clarence Thomas resign or recuse

17:34

himself from all Trump cases. And

17:37

a handful of them have. God bless you, Sheldon Whitehouse, a couple

17:39

others. But Democrats, Senate,

17:41

House, Whitehouse, why

17:43

the hell haven't you guys been screaming about Clarence Thomas with

17:45

this? We

17:48

don't punish traitors in this country. Not

17:51

if they're powerful. We didn't punish the

17:53

Confederate traitors. We didn't punish

17:55

Nixon. We let Iran-Contra slide. Nobody

17:57

went to jail. For

18:00

the lies that led to the Iraq

18:02

war which killed hundreds of thousands of

18:04

souls and Donald Trump is never going

18:06

to be held accountable by a Supreme

18:08

Court he hired. They're

18:11

trying to prevent the possibility of Donald Trump

18:13

being tried before the election, but

18:15

they don't want to limit Trump's ability to

18:18

try to indict Joe Biden next year.

18:21

Alito, more than all

18:23

the other justices, really seemed pinned

18:25

to the institutionalist stance that punishing

18:27

a president would mean the

18:29

fall of democracy. I'm

18:31

sure you would agree with me that

18:33

a stable democratic society

18:36

requires that a candidate

18:38

who loses an election,

18:41

even a close one, even a hotly

18:43

contested one, leave office

18:45

peacefully if that candidate is

18:48

the incumbent. Of course. All

18:50

right, now if an

18:54

incumbent who loses a

18:56

very close, hotly contested

18:58

election knows that

19:01

a real possibility after

19:04

leaving office is not that the president is

19:06

going to be able to go off into

19:09

a peaceful retirement, but that

19:11

the president may be criminally prosecuted

19:14

by a bitter political opponent,

19:17

will that not lead us

19:19

into a cycle

19:21

that destabilizes the functioning

19:23

of our country as a democracy?

19:25

And we can look around the

19:28

world and find countries where we

19:30

have seen this process, where the

19:32

loser gets thrown in jail. I

19:35

have to say, Alito at least reminds

19:37

us, Bush really may

19:39

have been worse than Trump. According

19:43

to the show John Dean, legendary figure

19:45

in Watergate said today's SCOTUS argument on

19:48

Trump's criminal immunity revealed an activist conservative

19:50

majority that wants to provide presidential immunity,

19:52

but they must get around Nixon v.

19:54

Fitzgerald 1982, which clearly states

19:56

there is no criminal immunity for presidents. And

19:59

certainly not for this. Donald Trump's

20:01

not a man. He's a corrupt, corrosive,

20:03

petulant, pampered piggy. He's a millionaire at

20:05

birth who's never had to follow rules.

20:08

From tax law to insurance fraud to

20:10

bank fraud, education fraud, marriage vows, charity

20:12

fraud, rape and defamation. He

20:14

is Putin's putrid prison punk and he's

20:16

always walked between the raindrops. He

20:19

is every vacuous, selfish, insincere, spoiled

20:21

brat, wonka factory tour children, whipped

20:23

into a grotesque fondue that smells

20:25

of adult diapers and too much

20:27

cologne. And today, this

20:30

syphilitic Augustus Gloop demanded

20:32

that the president gets to be above the

20:35

law. If they help him

20:37

delay this trial, voters will be making their

20:39

choice in the next election without hearing any

20:41

of the new evidence Jack Smith has gathered

20:43

on Donald Trump's conduct during the terrorist attack

20:45

on our Capitol. The most likely outcome will

20:47

be this court will kick it back to

20:50

lower courts and delay the whole thing. And

20:52

if Trump becomes president, he will order the

20:54

DOJ to dismiss all the charges against him.

20:56

Can the media please point out we never

20:58

had debates about presidential immunity until we had

21:00

a criminal as president. The

21:02

only president in 235 years who

21:05

needs immunity because he's a career criminal

21:07

and the fact that the Supreme

21:09

Court Justice's wife was one of the organizers of

21:12

this armed insurrection should be mentioned constantly. I'd

21:14

like one of these judges to ask how are you supposed to

21:16

impeach the president for a coup if he's rounded up the House

21:18

and Senate? If the court decides

21:20

a former president can steal the nation's most sensitive

21:23

documents with national security and show him anywhere he

21:25

likes, steal the office, murder people,

21:28

nothing anyone can do about it, then they're

21:30

showing us exactly why we need to expand the court.

21:33

Donald Trump personally appointed one third of this

21:35

court that's now deciding whether to grant him

21:37

the ability to murder people and not be

21:39

charged for it. And a lot of folks

21:42

are going about their business like this is

21:44

normal. There's a very real chance, brothers and

21:46

sisters, that five or six justices will rule

21:48

that a president can use his powers to

21:50

commit really serious crimes. The

21:53

Republican Party has gone from I

21:55

am not a crook to A

21:58

crook is Not a crook. We

22:00

want to know what you guys think. We're

22:02

it. Eight six six nine Nine Seven Forty

22:04

Seven Forty Eight Eight Six Six nine Nine

22:06

Seven Grit and will be back. And just

22:08

a moment with Ambassador Irish Shapiro to talk about

22:10

Mcconnell. This is progress. This.

22:17

Okay, picture this, it's Friday afternoon when

22:19

a thought hits you. I

22:22

can spend another weekend doing the same old whatever,

22:24

or I can hop into my all new Hyundai

22:26

Santa Fe and hit the road. With

22:29

available H-track all-wheel drive and three-row seating,

22:31

my whole family can head deep into

22:33

the wild. Conquer the weekend in the

22:36

all-new Hyundai Santa Fe. Visit

22:38

hyundaiusa.com or call 562-314-4603 for more details. Hyundai.

22:44

There's joy in every journey. Delve

22:46

into the shadows of the mind

22:48

was sleeping dogs. A gripping

22:51

murder mystery starring academy. Award

22:53

winner Russell Crowe. now available

22:56

on digital. Crow. Betrays

22:58

and x homicide detective unraveling

23:00

a brutal murder he can't

23:03

recall. Uncovering secrets from his

23:05

past, he learns a chilling truth.

23:08

It's. Best to let sleeping

23:10

dogs lie. visit Sleeping

23:12

Dogs movie.com/wonder he to

23:15

watch sleeping dogs. Now.

23:17

On digital that Sleeping

23:20

Dogs movie.com/wonder he. Welcome

23:29

Back! We are at Eight six six

23:31

nine Nine Seven Forty seven Forty Eight!

23:33

I am so thrilled and delighted. An

23:35

honor to welcome this next guess the

23:37

back to our show. Let me quote

23:39

him: make no mistake, the Senate's performance

23:42

during the Trump Presidency is the story

23:44

of the most catastrophic failure of governments

23:46

in American history. Ambassador I wrote: Shapiro

23:48

served his teeth Us Trade negotiator with

23:50

Japan in Canada, and as General Counsel

23:52

in the office of Us Trade Representative

23:54

during the Clinton Administration. He's a former

23:57

Senate staffer, an author of the critically.

23:59

acclaimed the last great Senate courage

24:01

and statesmanship in times of crisis

24:03

as well as broken can the

24:05

Senate save itself and the country.

24:08

He now has completed his Senate

24:10

trilogy with an incredible narrative about

24:12

the state of the body itself

24:14

during the Trump White House. It

24:16

is the betrayal how Mitch McConnell

24:18

and the Senate Republicans abandoned America

24:21

and he focuses quite

24:23

presciently on how the Senate responded

24:26

to the unique challenges posed by

24:28

a reality game show host landlord

24:31

administration and of course

24:33

how things look under President Biden as well.

24:35

It is a great pleasure to welcome Ambassador

24:37

Irish Appeiro back to Sirius XM. John,

24:41

it's great to be with you. Thanks so much for

24:43

having me back. Thank you so

24:45

much and I'm so thrilled you have updated this

24:47

book because obviously it's been an interesting couple of

24:49

years for Mitch McConnell and a lot of us

24:52

really thought that he was going

24:54

to put this foot down against Trump in the end. He

24:57

wanted Trump to turn the court to the right. He

24:59

wanted Trump to kill the Affordable Care Act. He wanted

25:01

Trump to cut taxes for the rich. He got most

25:03

of those things but I think

25:05

after January 6th a lot of us really

25:07

thought McConnell meant it. He's the damnedest

25:09

problem now. Let them deal with the son of a bitch as he's

25:11

quoted as saying. Of course that

25:13

hasn't been the case and he just

25:15

endorsed Trump for reelection. Why did you

25:18

think it was necessary to

25:20

update your excellent work? The

25:24

book was recent history. It

25:26

took the Trump years and the

25:28

first Biden year and

25:30

I decided to bring it

25:32

up to date. The publisher gave

25:34

me the chance to cover the last

25:37

two years so the recent history becomes

25:39

current history. But the truth

25:41

is that as you know, John, the

25:44

premise of the book is that Donald

25:47

Trump was a clear and present threat

25:50

to our democracy from the

25:52

beginning. But we're supposed

25:54

to have institutions that are strong enough

25:56

to balance and

25:58

check that country. of threat. The

26:01

Senate has the principal

26:03

responsibility for doing so.

26:06

And this Senate repeatedly,

26:09

the Republican Senate under

26:11

McConnell repeatedly and

26:14

knowingly failed to stop

26:16

Trump. Most

26:18

dramatically, of course, after the

26:20

January 6th attack, but

26:23

they had failed a series of times.

26:26

And after January 6th, I think we

26:29

thought that McConnell, who gave great

26:31

speeches about condemning

26:33

Trump, would actually

26:35

perhaps do something. And

26:37

yet when the time came, the

26:40

Senate Republicans exonerated

26:42

Trump again and

26:44

set in motion the last three years

26:47

that we've seen. Trump

26:49

should have been disqualified as

26:51

a presidential candidate using

26:54

the constitutional system. And

26:57

it didn't happen. And what

26:59

we're seeing is the struggle of

27:01

the legal system to make up

27:03

for the Senate's failure. And

27:06

of course, McConnell not

27:08

doing well. Well,

27:10

indeed. And Trump voted. I mean, McConnell

27:12

voted for Trump's acquittal. And

27:14

Trump thanked him by calling him a

27:16

dour, sullen, unsmiling political hack. I

27:19

mean, I'm still shocked at the

27:21

abuse Mitch McConnell takes from this man

27:23

and still rewards him with loyalty. It

27:28

is remarkable, actually.

27:30

They detest each other. But

27:34

McConnell has a reason to detest

27:36

Trump. Trump's reason for

27:38

detesting McConnell is that he's

27:40

just an in-grade, basically. McConnell

27:43

did a lot to make him president,

27:46

did a lot for him

27:48

as president, then saved him

27:50

from impeachment. And yet

27:52

Trump hates him. So why

27:55

is McConnell doing this? And

27:58

the answer, I think, is

28:00

that ultimately his

28:03

partisanship overwhelms

28:05

his patriotism. Indeed. It

28:09

would be now. There are rare

28:11

exceptions, and we've actually witnessed one

28:13

in the last period

28:15

of months, and more recently last week.

28:19

I think McConnell played a very

28:21

useful and seriously

28:23

consistent role in

28:26

saving aid for military aid for

28:28

Ukraine. I

28:30

support that, and I think he was

28:32

very consistent and for once acting

28:35

on principle. But that's

28:37

the exception. It's his

28:40

best, finest hour, but we had to wait

28:42

40 years for it. I

28:45

completely agree. And we should

28:47

also point out that during the second impeachment

28:49

of Trump when McConnell is washing his hands

28:51

of him and so disgusted, McConnell

28:53

would not allow any witnesses. He delayed

28:55

the entire trial until Trump had left

28:57

office and then declared it was unconstitutional

29:00

to impeach a president who had left

29:02

office. Seven Republicans voted to

29:04

convict Trump. They needed 17. If

29:08

Mitch McConnell had gotten behind this

29:10

and told his senators that he

29:12

was voting to convict, do you think we would have

29:14

seen a different outcome? Oh,

29:17

no question. If McConnell

29:19

had acted on the

29:21

feelings that he had toward Trump

29:23

and his belief that Trump had

29:26

committed a high

29:28

crime against the constitutional

29:31

order, if he

29:33

had acted on that, there would

29:35

be 17 Republican votes. There might

29:37

have been 25 Republican votes. There's

29:39

no question. My theory,

29:43

looking at it, John, is that McConnell

29:46

felt Trump was still too

29:49

strong in the Republican Party.

29:52

And I think he thought Trump would

29:54

wither away basically when

29:56

she was out of office. Well,

29:58

he underestimated. Trump's

30:00

depravity, he overestimated

30:03

his own ability to control Trump

30:05

while he was in the White

30:07

House, and we're paying

30:09

for that mistake still. I've

30:13

never seen a politician more

30:15

interested in his immediate power and

30:18

less interested in how he'll be judged

30:20

by history. I mean, does

30:22

it ever give you pause how seemingly

30:25

indifferent McConnell is to how historians will

30:27

no doubt regard his behaviors? You're

30:32

asking a good question because, very good

30:34

question. I've thought about it a lot.

30:37

Yeah. Just in

30:39

February, McConnell waxing philosophical

30:41

said, history will

30:44

settle every account. Well,

30:46

my book is an attempt to help

30:48

settle his account. But

30:50

interestingly, I think he

30:53

does care about his legacy, and

30:55

yet not enough to make it shape

31:00

his behavior. It's

31:04

quite remarkable to me that Mitch

31:06

McConnell, 40 years

31:09

in the Senate, worked with

31:11

seven presidents, knows

31:13

with absolute certainty

31:17

that the election of Donald Trump would

31:19

be a disaster for the country and

31:21

for our allies, starting with

31:24

Ukraine and others in Europe. He

31:27

knows that with an absolute certainty, and

31:30

yet he still endorsed it. I

31:34

mean, Republicans have

31:36

faced continual tests

31:38

of character, courage, and patriotism,

31:41

and not very many of

31:43

them have passed those tests.

31:47

Is it, Ambassador, because McConnell knows it

31:49

would not be a disaster for the

31:51

GOP donor base? Is

31:54

that what drives it? I

31:56

don't understand it. At some point, you

31:59

want to have your obituary. he read a certain way. And

32:01

it just sort of, and you're right, these men despise

32:03

each other. Is it just the fact that the

32:05

big money donors on whom

32:08

his legacy depends

32:11

don't mind Trump? Well,

32:15

I certainly think

32:17

his political career, his rise,

32:19

and his long stay in

32:21

power has reflected

32:23

his understanding of

32:25

the donor base, his

32:28

devotion to them, the

32:30

raising of money from them,

32:32

and the rewards that they

32:34

have received through legislation and

32:36

regulation, or lack of regulation

32:39

and lack of legislation. So

32:41

I think that's all true. At

32:43

some point, I think

32:45

he gets beyond that, and

32:48

it's simply the red team versus

32:50

the blue team, basically. That's all there is. There's

32:55

no other justification for it.

32:58

So it's been,

33:02

look, I think I

33:05

give him credit for Ukraine, as I said. Me

33:08

too. I give him credit for everything he's

33:10

done for the country. It just took very

33:12

few pages in my book. I

33:16

think he will be remembered for two things.

33:19

One that he didn't do, stop

33:21

Trump, when he

33:24

had the responsibility and the opportunity.

33:27

And the second that he did do, create the

33:31

extreme Supreme

33:33

Court supermajority that they

33:35

have through

33:38

a corrupted confirmation process. Those

33:41

two things are likely to be

33:43

his legacy. And I'm

33:46

not sure he can live with it, but

33:49

it's what Rudy Giuliani once said, John,

33:51

you may remember, someone asked him, look

33:53

what you're doing to your legacy. He

33:56

said, what do I care? I'll be dead. Exactly.

34:00

That's it. I mean there of they'll

34:02

take the earthly accolades right now and

34:04

the earthly bribes in the earthly praise

34:06

and not worry about how their grandchildren

34:08

have to deal with. The family name

34:10

I want to point out is also

34:13

ambassador You you? You don't write this

34:15

guy off as a common political hacks.

34:17

You do have respect. Be grudging respect

34:19

for him despite his evil ways. What?

34:21

What do you admire about him? Oh

34:25

I. I have grudges

34:28

and grudging respect for. Is

34:30

exceptional political ability. He.

34:33

Is clearly. Yet. Our he

34:35

gives all basketball fan and sometimes I

34:37

think he plays above the rim. Sundays.

34:40

This is a superb

34:42

strategists and tactician. He's.

34:45

A master of the fundraising

34:47

system. Much. Of which he

34:49

created along with be Citizens United

34:52

Supreme Court. He

34:54

he and his a hard negotiate.

34:57

He's. Extremely effective in pursuing

34:59

his own objective. But.

35:01

Those have been partisan objectives.

35:04

Rather, Than anything much for the

35:06

country. And. As

35:09

a result, If. You look

35:11

back. He

35:13

diminish the Obama presidency. Suited.

35:17

Turn. The said it into a

35:19

bitter hyper partisan. Battle. Ground.

35:22

And. Is given us this supreme

35:24

for. That's a lot

35:27

of damage to do it all three

35:29

branches of government. A

35:32

Besser you. You worked in the senate for

35:34

over a decade, and you worked with the

35:36

Senate with the Clinton Administration. And you've written

35:38

three books about the Senate in a decade.

35:40

I'm I'm very curious. What? Was

35:43

it that first fascinated you about this

35:45

body? Now.

35:48

Years. i've probably

35:51

given the senate much more

35:53

thought than any reasonable person

35:55

should that actually john i'm

35:57

old enough that i came

35:59

of age during the last

36:01

constitutional crisis, Vietnam

36:04

War, which morphed almost

36:06

seamlessly into Watergate. Yeah.

36:10

At that time, when I

36:12

was looking at the country and

36:14

the institutions and trying to figure out what I

36:16

was going to do with my career, the

36:19

Senate was a beacon of

36:21

hope. The Senate was

36:24

the place that passed civil

36:26

rights legislation that that

36:28

basically took debated and ultimately

36:31

stopped the Vietnam War finally.

36:33

Yes. And the place that

36:35

held Nixon accountable for Watergate,

36:37

along with other branch of the

36:40

government, the house as well. And

36:43

so for me, I had the

36:46

chance to get to the Senate as an

36:48

intern at a time

36:50

when it was formative for my career. So

36:53

I, I loved working there when

36:55

I came back. And

36:58

my books were decades later.

37:00

I circled back to find

37:02

out what had gone wrong,

37:04

basically. And the

37:06

first book was how the Senate

37:08

was when it was great. Right.

37:11

And then it was the declining Senate. And

37:13

then it was the

37:15

Senate that catastrophically failed. When

37:19

did it peak, Ambassador? When do you think it peaked? I think

37:22

the Senate peaked. The

37:25

Senate was very strong in the 1960s

37:27

and through the 1970s. Yeah. I

37:30

once said it was strong for 18 years, 63 to 80.

37:37

And I did kind of worked on memory

37:39

even after it became less liberal in

37:41

the 1980s. It still worked

37:44

like the Senate by

37:47

about the end of the 80s. And particularly

37:49

when she got into the 90s,

37:52

the Gingrich effect in the house

37:55

started spilling over into the Senate.

37:58

And it's been a downhill slog. since

38:00

then? I would

38:02

certainly agree. I always find

38:04

it amusing when pundits think that this

38:06

whole culture, this corrosive culture,

38:09

began with Donald Trump. He's

38:11

more to me like the hood ornament on the car

38:13

that's been crashing into our democracy for a couple of

38:15

decades now and he's assumed many

38:17

forms. Trump is just the most

38:20

noxious version of him. But let me

38:22

ask you about McConnell because when

38:25

he announced that he would be stepping down as leader

38:27

a few months back, there

38:29

were all these glowing tributes to him

38:31

talking about how engaged he was with

38:34

the Civil Rights Movement, how he

38:36

was there in 1963 and this of course is

38:40

the history that he pushes and

38:43

leaves out his appearance in front of Confederate flags,

38:45

leaves out his work against the Voting Rights Act,

38:47

leaves out his work against any kind of

38:51

civil rights in a while. But his early years

38:53

in the Senate didn't really

38:55

indicate he'd become this amoral and ruthless.

38:57

His role model was John Sherman Cooper

38:59

who I understand was a very ethical

39:01

and pretty moderate Republican. Would

39:04

Senator Cooper be embarrassed or

39:06

appalled by the actions of

39:09

his protege? Well,

39:13

John, first of all, when

39:15

somebody announces that they're going

39:17

to step down, there's a

39:19

certain amount of praise they get. It's

39:23

part of the

39:26

process. I think that

39:28

we shouldn't take that all

39:30

that seriously. Second, his

39:34

years as a civil rights champion were

39:36

like 20 years before he ever

39:38

got to the Senate. By the

39:40

time of the 80s, he was

39:42

a more conventional Republican,

39:46

not by any means in my mind

39:48

a racist, but certainly

39:50

no civil rights champion.

39:55

John Sherman Cooper was more than just a moderate

39:57

or good Republican. He was a very good Republican.

40:00

a superb senator

40:02

and a superb like a statesman

40:04

turned senator. So he was

40:06

a great person to emulate, but

40:09

I think he would be rolling

40:11

over his grave about

40:13

McConnell's career, with

40:16

the exception of

40:18

McConnell's work on Ukraine. I

40:20

guess after 40 years,

40:22

he's done something for the country finally.

40:27

I guess, I mean, I'm grateful for it,

40:29

but it's hard to not connect the dots

40:31

on everything we're experiencing right now, sir. I'll

40:33

leave you with this. We witnessed in the

40:35

Supreme Court today, lawyers for

40:37

this reality show president arguing that a president

40:39

is allowed to commit crimes, that we have

40:41

a king who can rule with impunity and

40:44

is above the law. And

40:46

it's important to stress this, this ridiculous

40:49

obscenity that was only there to delay

40:51

his trial so the American people can't

40:53

hear evidence before they vote. This

40:55

whole presidential immunity sham. Mitch

40:58

McConnell is the reason this happened, isn't it? We

41:00

can thank him for what we witnessed today. Yes.

41:04

I mean, my only disagreement

41:07

recently with Joe Biden when he

41:09

said one person

41:11

is responsible for the attack

41:13

on reproductive rights, Donald Trump.

41:17

Actually, it's two people. There

41:19

would not be that Supreme

41:21

Court if Mitch McConnell hadn't

41:24

ran through, hadn't blocked Merrick

41:26

Garland in 2016, and

41:28

then hadn't ran

41:31

through three nominations, the third

41:33

of which Amy Coney Barrett

41:35

was eight days before the

41:37

election. Boom. So

41:40

he's responsible for

41:42

this Supreme Court. And

41:45

he claims, I think he's

41:47

proud of it in some respects. He

41:50

says he is. But I

41:52

think it has been, it's a disaster for

41:54

the country. And it'll only

41:57

be something to be proud of, prompts

41:59

us to. Put term limits

42:01

on these justices and

42:04

ask the first three of them Roberts

42:07

Alito and Amis

42:10

to leave after their 18 years Ambassador

42:14

Irish Apero's book is the betrayal how Mitch

42:16

McConnell and the Senate Republicans abandoned America It

42:19

is a great book about the last couple

42:21

of decades in our Senate why our Senate

42:23

matters and how it got this way I'm

42:25

also want to say it makes a terrific

42:28

gift for the fan of politics and government

42:30

in your life ambassador It's always a pleasure

42:32

to have you here. Our platform is always

42:35

open to you. Thank you so much for

42:37

joining us on Sirius XM And

42:40

thank you for having me. It's a It's

42:43

going to be a very important six and

42:45

a half month or more months. So I

42:47

hope we'll talk again I hope

42:49

you'll come back and visit us again. It would be

42:51

a pleasure. Thank you so much a quick break We'll

42:53

be right back with your calls at eight six six

42:55

nine nine seven forty seven forty eight Mrs.

42:57

Progress This

43:02

episode is brought to you by Philo. Do

43:05

you love TV? Do you love saving

43:07

money? Then Philo is your solution. Philo has

43:09

shows, movies, and live TV for just

43:11

$25 a month. You

43:14

can even try it for free with

43:16

their seven-day free trial. No contracts, no

43:18

commitments, no hassles, just a better way

43:21

to watch TV. Never miss

43:23

a minute of shows like the hit

43:25

docu-series Where's Wendy Williams or classics such

43:27

as Friends. If you can't get enough

43:29

TV then there's no better way to

43:31

watch. Philo has more than 70 channels

43:34

like BET, MTV, and

43:36

AMC. And the best

43:38

part you can try it yourself

43:40

with their seven-day free trial. Sign

43:43

up today at philo.tv slash pop

43:45

pods that's philo.tv/p-o-p-p-o-d-s to get 50%

43:47

off your first month. Carmax is

43:49

putting peace of mind back in

43:52

car shopping by putting you in

43:54

the driver's seat to find a

43:56

ride that's right for you. you

44:00

shouldn't just settle for a car, you

44:02

should love your car. That's why every

44:04

car we sell is CarMax certified

44:06

quality so you can be sure

44:08

with upfront pricing that's the same

44:10

for every customer. So don't settle.

44:13

Find Love at First Drive and

44:15

start shopping now at carmax.com. CarMax.

44:17

The way car buying should be.

44:26

This is SiriusXM progress. I'm John Fuehl

44:28

saying we're going to be

44:31

joined very shortly by Simon Moyer-Smith and

44:33

Julie Franchela. Let's go to the phones

44:35

right now and say hello, shall we?

44:37

Everyone wants to talk to Simon and

44:39

Julie. Everyone wants to talk to Simon

44:41

and Julie. Bill in New Jersey, welcome.

44:43

You're on progress. Hi

44:45

John, how you doing? Good sir, how are you? I'm

44:48

alright. I'm doing okay. I

44:51

think there was a judge ruling

44:53

though on Trump that he's required

44:55

to have three layers of 72-hour

44:58

body, full-body deodorant when he goes

45:00

into court. Well yeah, that

45:02

was an FDA thing actually. I think that

45:04

was FEMA petitioned that as well for

45:07

the public good. Right,

45:09

but this whole thing comes

45:11

from Garland. The dumbest

45:13

thing that Biden did was

45:16

to make a judge in

45:18

charge of law enforcement. Judges

45:21

are supposed to be deliberative

45:23

and slow and he

45:26

was given this as a consolation prize which

45:28

is not a very good reason to make

45:30

someone AG. Yeah, it's a fair argument, yeah,

45:33

but as our last guest pointed out, we

45:35

can blame Mitch McConnell for this too because

45:37

Mitch McConnell is the reason Merrick Garland is

45:39

not serving as a boring center-left

45:42

judge on the court right now.

45:45

Right, and I mean the

45:47

biggest thing with McConnell to

45:49

me was the fact that

45:51

his wife was working for

45:53

the executive branch under two

45:55

administrations while he was running

45:57

the Senate. And by the way and

45:59

the President Trump can't stop

46:02

being racist about his wife and calling

46:04

her various racist taunts even though she

46:06

served in his cabinet and Mitch McConnell

46:08

responds to racist attacks on the woman

46:10

he married by endorsing Donald Trump for

46:12

president Right and don't

46:15

don't forget about Gorsuch's mother Yeah,

46:19

tell the folks about Gorsuch's mother. She

46:22

was appointed head of the EPA and And

46:25

she was under Reagan under

46:27

Reagan. Yeah, she was a she was the

46:30

first cabinet member to

46:32

be sanctioned

46:34

by the Congress Yeah,

46:37

but when she when she took over the EPA It

46:39

was the end of the 70s

46:42

and she just stopped prosecuting polluters,

46:44

especially water pollution I mean like his

46:47

mother was someone who made it okay

46:50

Through government to let businesses pollute

46:52

more That's raised but

46:54

but she had a couple

46:56

of scandals one of which is on

46:59

a super fund She denied money to

47:01

an area in California to stop

47:04

a Democrat from winning there

47:06

or something and she had

47:08

it she was in with

47:11

the oil industry and one other guy

47:13

and But she was

47:16

Had to step down in disgrace and

47:18

this is his mother, you know, yeah

47:20

Yes, she was Listening up

47:22

all the laws and everything it's not and

47:24

what's more what's what's more Trumpian than hiring

47:27

someone in charge of an agency To destroy

47:29

it. That's what Republicans do. I

47:31

mean Trump made a home school or in

47:33

charge of education, you know, this is

47:35

like He

47:37

put a brain surgeon in charge of housing

47:40

I mean, they just they deliberately hire unqualified

47:42

people or people, you know Like Amy Coney

47:44

Barrett who was hired not to replace Ruth

47:46

Ginsburg But to undo Ruth Ginsburg and the

47:48

same with Clarence Thomas. He was hired not

47:51

to replace The

47:53

first black justice on the court there good Marshall but to

47:55

undo the work of their good Marshall That's that's what they

47:57

do it is. I mean his mom ran the EPA and

47:59

she slashed them budget and allowed more pollution.

48:01

And now her son continues this

48:03

assault. Right. And

48:06

just put these things together,

48:08

the Fifth Amendment, immunity and

48:10

pardon. And they all

48:12

mean guilty. Yeah, exactly. And there's

48:14

no reason they should be arguing over pardons

48:17

if he didn't do anything. No,

48:19

they found a way around guilt, didn't they? They have

48:21

found a way around guilt. Yeah.

48:23

Who knew that hiring your own judges could be very

48:25

good when you become a defendant? Yeah,

48:28

I guess so. And the last thing that

48:30

bothers me the hell is walking

48:32

around with these papers

48:35

with clippings on them and

48:37

of him talking about when

48:40

they gave away the boxes

48:42

of the documents,

48:44

he said he had clippings in there

48:47

and his clothing was in there too,

48:49

which is his personal possessions. And who

48:51

the hell hangs on to newspaper clippings?

48:54

You know, they have digital storage and

48:56

everything. Donald

48:58

Trump has always done that. That's something about the guy. He keeps

49:01

a lot of things. He's a hoarder and he has a

49:03

lot of crap. He always has. Look at any video of his

49:06

office in Trump Tower from back in the previous

49:09

decade. Right. And

49:11

look, I would believe that he thought he

49:13

could keep stuff and that he liked to

49:15

keep stuff because he's a pack rat. I

49:17

could believe that. It's just after the National

49:20

Archives asked for our stuff back, that's when

49:22

the lies began. That's when he only returned

49:24

some of the documents and he's not being

49:26

prosecuted for the ones he returned. It's all

49:28

of the other Michigoths that makes his cover

49:30

story the clumsy lie it is. I've got

49:32

to run, man. But I thank you. Dig

49:34

it. You raised the bar,

49:36

Bill. Right on. Simon Moyas-Smith is with us.

49:38

He is an Oglala Lakota and Chicano journalist.

49:40

He is the contributing writer at NBC News

49:42

in the Nation and he's the author of

49:44

the forthcoming book, Your Spirit Animal is a

49:46

Jackass. He's adjunct professor of indigenous studies at

49:49

the University of Colorado, Denver. Simon, it is

49:51

so good to have you back. No,

49:53

I love being here, man. Well, thank you.

49:55

Thanks for classing up our show along with

49:57

Julie Franzchella, who is an activist, a writer,

50:00

a writer, and a writer. a veteran mental

50:02

health professional and

50:35

they're really into your work. Congratulations!

50:38

Thank you and I'm very happy to

50:40

be here as always. Well,

50:42

thank you. So, let me jump

50:44

into it right away, this new study. Julie

50:46

you were talking about this, that shows that anti-Indigenous

50:49

bias, which is something that most white

50:51

people never think about, never witness, never

50:53

have to think about, but

50:55

that it's gotten so bad that there

50:57

is reports of first nations patients at

51:00

disproportionate levels leaving

51:03

emergency rooms before they can even

51:05

be seen? Yeah,

51:07

absolutely. So, a

51:09

new study that was published in

51:11

the Canadian Medical Association Journal shows

51:14

a concerning trend about the effect

51:16

of systemic racism on

51:19

first nations health and according

51:21

to this study, first nations

51:23

patients leave emergency rooms or

51:25

departments without being seen disproportionately

51:29

more so than non-in first

51:32

nations patients. So, I think

51:34

it shows nearly 7% of

51:36

first nations patients visits to an

51:38

emergency department end in them not

51:40

receiving care and that

51:43

is significant. One

51:46

of the, you know,

51:48

the study, it's really important to

51:50

talk about because I think

51:52

it really does reveal

51:55

deep-seated anti-Indigenous biases in

51:57

the healthcare system and in

51:59

the context of these biases

52:01

in emergency departments, there are

52:03

several specific injustices that stand

52:06

out. You know, this article

52:08

actually, this study was

52:11

referencing just direct racism.

52:14

So what had happened in one

52:16

case, I guess there was

52:18

a doctor who went on a racist rant

52:20

against Native people and

52:22

indigenous people overheard the rant and

52:24

basically, you know, got up and

52:27

left because they didn't feel safe receiving

52:29

care from a doctor that would have such,

52:32

you know, racist views and

52:34

there are several other, yeah, several other

52:37

incidences like that but also, and another

52:41

thing I wanted to point out, there's

52:43

evidence to suggest that indigenous patients' reports

52:45

of pain are often

52:48

taken less seriously and that

52:50

leads obviously to inadequate pain

52:52

management and suffering and sometimes it's

52:54

due to stereotypes that wrongly

52:56

suggest indigenous people have either

52:59

higher pain thresholds or are seeking

53:01

drugs and I just want to jump in really

53:03

quickly. I want Simon to talk about this too but I

53:06

have a personal incident where this actually

53:08

happened to me a couple of years

53:11

after I gave birth to my second daughter,

53:13

my youngest daughter. I was living

53:15

on reserve and I had to

53:17

drive 100 miles to

53:20

the nearest hospital and I was

53:22

hospitalized for a kidney stone and

53:25

as a young, you know, single mother, I needed

53:27

to leave the hospital

53:29

to be able to care for my daughters

53:31

and so when I

53:34

was leaving, the doctor refused to

53:37

give me pain medication and

53:40

actually said out loud

53:42

that they weren't going to give me pain

53:44

medication because they were afraid that I was

53:46

going to go to the reservation and sell the drugs.

53:49

That's it. That's it, right? That happened to me. That

53:51

was in 2008 so it's not that long ago. You're

53:55

literally a trauma counselor and they were afraid you

53:57

would go sell the pain killers at the res.

53:59

Yeah. They just thought, check off on

54:01

my file that I was native and I was

54:03

living on the res and that's

54:05

all they needed. And it

54:08

was mortifying and what do you say? Because

54:11

I needed to get out of there and did

54:13

I go back to that hospital again? Never.

54:17

Never. I mean, Simon, I'm reading this study with

54:19

the Canadian Medical Association Journal and I got to

54:22

say, I keep thinking half of these stories have

54:24

got to be patients who go

54:26

to an emergency room and they're turned off

54:28

by the particular kinds of questions they're asked.

54:31

Yeah. Well, it's also in

54:33

the clinics. So Indian Health Services, they're dicks.

54:37

I hated going as a kid. I really hated going

54:39

as a kid. They were mean. Why? Well,

54:42

I don't know. I mean, maybe racism, maybe because

54:44

they wanted to be a doctor in another state

54:46

and now they're working at a clinic looking after

54:48

natives. Who the fuck knows? But I hated going

54:50

as a kid. They were mean. This

54:53

happens a lot, not just in emergency rooms, like

54:55

I said, with Indian Health Services, but

54:58

it is that stereotype. As soon as a

55:00

native walks in, they're like, oh, the natives

55:02

are drunk or the native is on some

55:04

sort of drugs. And it's so common, but

55:06

I'm going to take a step back. I

55:08

think we throw out terms that I think people

55:10

need to understand. First nation is the term in

55:12

Canada. Here it's referred

55:15

to as Native American, even though again,

55:17

we're not American in that sense. We're

55:20

pre-American and then also reservations

55:22

and reserves up north in

55:24

Canada. Those are going to be reserves here. They're

55:27

called reservations, but in Mexico,

55:29

there's neither. And up

55:31

in Alaska, there's no reservations.

55:33

There's no reserves. They're just

55:35

villages. So even up

55:37

there. And I remember Ray was on

55:39

the show and she had a wonderful

55:41

experience with Indian Health Services in Alaska.

55:43

But here in the United States, it

55:45

sucks and we still get stereotyped

55:48

regardless if it's in the emergency room or

55:50

a clinic. Wow. Wow.

55:53

Yeah. And There's also

55:55

a bias and a lack of cultural

55:57

competence and that leads to misdiagnosing and

55:59

undiagnosed. Medical medical conditions for

56:01

indigenous patience and again you know

56:03

it's a lot of that is

56:06

due to misconceptions about the prevalence

56:08

of certain conditions within. Indigenous

56:10

populations are just dismissal of Simpsons

56:13

and often times in a Simon

56:15

was saying in a hostess another

56:17

Indian coming in and you know

56:20

often hands are not listens to,

56:22

they're not asked questions, they're just

56:24

dismissed little while. While. I

56:27

mean, I get it and it's.

56:29

Systemic. Racism at a healthcare system. And it's

56:31

the sort of thing that a lot of comfortable people

56:33

never have to think about one. Woman:

56:36

Also remember this is around certain this

56:38

is typically around reservations you're not going

56:40

to lay in New York City learning

56:42

the go. Oh here's a drunken I'm

56:44

sure they've never met one so the

56:46

never met an indigenous person. But if

56:48

you go somewhere like here in New

56:50

Mexico or up in the North Dakota

56:52

North Dakota, that's where gets really prevalent.

56:54

Read. On we are at Eight Six Six Nine

56:56

Nine Seven Forty Seven Forty Eight. We have a

56:58

lot of listeners who want to say hi to

57:01

you guys tonight. I hope you can handle that.

57:03

And between our by our stories I'm Brian and

57:05

Oregon welcome your on Sirius Xm with Simon and

57:07

Julie. You're. On it by Brian. Hear

57:09

me Out Can hear me That a successor I can

57:11

area. I had no idea was gonna.

57:14

Get into Julian Simas are you

57:16

guys? Who are to

57:19

a man a bit by a man?

57:21

I? ah. I. Have heard a

57:23

story about soda or he is your.

57:27

Reservations I'm and or busy camp.

57:29

ah those. But in the number

57:31

others in South Dakota earth have

57:33

outlawed Kristi Noem, some setting fire

57:35

on the rez I love. Yeah,

57:37

we banned her. Yeah see honey

57:39

not telling us. You. Know.

57:41

Happened. Up all the what he

57:43

was raised as you said some awful sid. Caesar

57:46

some awful things about the indigenous people south

57:48

of the border and so were like oh

57:50

okay well you seem to be a horrible

57:52

human being as separate sovereign nations were gonna

57:55

ban your ass from coming onto our reservations

57:57

Because remember when you enter a Rez you

57:59

text. left the United States. We

58:01

have our own president, we have our

58:04

own vice president, we have our own

58:06

laws, we can prosecute you, like, or

58:08

prosecute, not persecute you, but in this

58:10

sense... She can persecute as well. Oh

58:13

yeah, no, seriously, she has

58:15

said awful things about indigenous people up

58:17

and down. She was trying to

58:20

link the the nation's to cartel

58:22

activity, wasn't she? Like, she wants to be

58:24

Trump's vice president so bad that she'll try

58:26

to be racist against Indians, even though that's

58:28

not testing as well this year with American

58:30

racists. Yeah, she associated

58:32

us with the cartels down

58:34

in Mexico and not unlike

58:37

Trump when he was talking about the

58:39

casinos in New York and he was

58:41

like, oh, the Italian, the mobs, they're

58:43

gonna work together, the mafia and the

58:45

Native Americans with these casinos and now

58:47

Kristi Noem is doing that with indigenous

58:49

people saying that they're using reservations as

58:52

a funnel for drugs. Yeah.

58:55

And just what she said about

58:57

the using razor wire to keep

58:59

people out, you know, from

59:01

crossing the border, that's another,

59:03

you know, reason why indigenous

59:06

nations have said, you know what, we don't, you're

59:08

not welcome here. Yeah,

59:10

I mean, she's the governor and she's

59:13

now banned from 17% of

59:15

her own state. I

59:17

love it. You gotta

59:19

get somebody, she sets foot, arrest her ass,

59:21

put her in the cell for a night.

59:24

Well, she hasn't come. I mean, she hasn't tested it yet.

59:27

Yeah. And why would she? Like, what, why would she?

59:29

What's she gonna do?

59:31

Go there to represent people? Go there to try to

59:34

make things better? Go there to try to

59:36

create understanding and then seek forgiveness? She

59:38

doesn't care. No, not at all.

59:40

I think she would go there just to say you

59:43

can't stop me from coming on here. That's her, I

59:45

mean, that's why I wouldn't interpret. The flex. Yeah,

59:48

probably. And hey,

59:50

just another quick footnote on the aim.

59:53

I, you know, when I was

59:55

a youngster and I

59:57

read the first, I'm blind, one of the first

1:00:00

Two or three four or five books. I

1:00:02

listen to on tape Was

1:00:05

in the spirit of crazy wars? Oh,

1:00:07

wow, and I learned a lot of the aim Characters

1:00:10

and I'm wondering is Dino Butler still

1:00:12

alive No,

1:00:14

no, unfortunately a lot of our elders are

1:00:16

with the American Indian movement. Yeah

1:00:18

a lot. Unfortunately a lot of them have passed Yeah,

1:00:21

I as a young guy. I got a

1:00:24

time off from the dairy and Went

1:00:28

up and My

1:00:30

mind I was just bearing witness to

1:00:32

his trial. They had him on trial for murder

1:00:35

Yeah, like he killed some asshole in

1:00:38

Lincoln City for grave

1:00:41

robbing in Anyways,

1:00:43

he was he was a quitted

1:00:45

but I went then it was I had to go

1:00:47

through metal detector to get into the courtroom And they

1:00:50

had a seat and this

1:00:52

incredibly myopic Legally

1:00:54

blind kid in 22 or 3 or whatever it

1:00:56

was and It

1:01:00

was just fascinating and apparently he had

1:01:02

a pipe on the table the whole

1:01:04

trial and His

1:01:08

dad I heard later Said

1:01:11

he just loved the judge because it was a

1:01:13

fantastic judge. It was in Portland, Oregon Okay.

1:01:16

Anyway, well Leonard Peltier is still alive

1:01:19

He's the winner. Unfortunately, he's still in jail

1:01:22

and I don't know and still can't get a new

1:01:24

trial Brian

1:01:29

thank you so much for calling. I really appreciate hearing from

1:01:32

you. We were 866-997-4748 I

1:01:35

wanted to ask you guys about this post that the

1:01:37

White House tweeted out just two days ago roughly

1:01:40

half of Tribal households lack access

1:01:43

to clean drinking water or adequate

1:01:45

sanitation. Our administration is investing over

1:01:48

1 billion dollars to accelerate the

1:01:50

delivery of drinking water and community sanitation

1:01:53

Infrastructure projects in Indian country.

1:01:56

I read this and part of me was like wow, that's really

1:01:58

inspiring part of me was like What century

1:02:00

is this that we're having, this

1:02:02

announcement made? Was

1:02:04

this a welcome announcement or is

1:02:07

this considered to be too little too late or

1:02:09

something of both? Julie? Well,

1:02:11

I mean, it absolutely is

1:02:13

welcomed. There

1:02:15

are thousands of communities across Turtle Island

1:02:18

that don't have clean drinking water. And

1:02:20

I know also we're talking about Flint, Michigan. I'm

1:02:22

right behind. I think drinking water

1:02:24

is important for everybody. Indigenous

1:02:27

nations are oftentimes pushed

1:02:29

to the margins and they're not in,

1:02:32

they're purposely been

1:02:35

put on these lands

1:02:37

that they're desolate and there's not a lot

1:02:39

there. And so to be able to

1:02:41

have clean drinking water and sanitation infrastructure,

1:02:43

it's so important for indigenous

1:02:46

communities. And it's not

1:02:48

just a financial commitment because it's a

1:02:50

significant amount. It's over $1 billion. I

1:02:53

think the Biden administration pledged

1:02:55

for this. And

1:02:57

it's so important. It's a crucial

1:02:59

step towards equity and

1:03:02

sustainability for so many

1:03:04

people. So I think it's welcomed. Yeah,

1:03:08

Simon? Yeah. Well, I mean,

1:03:11

what I hate about this is that people

1:03:13

are like, oh shit, Indians

1:03:15

drinking water now. And

1:03:18

on the news, I was waiting to see

1:03:20

it on MSNBC or CNN or talking about

1:03:22

it like, here is this, we're

1:03:25

the smallest racial minority in the United States,

1:03:27

but we don't get this news coverage. Like

1:03:29

nobody's saying anything about the fact that

1:03:32

indigenous people don't have access to drinking

1:03:35

water on what were originally

1:03:37

founded as prison camps. And

1:03:39

then that's not making it into the news.

1:03:42

And it's only here that we're talking

1:03:44

about it, but they haven't said diddly

1:03:46

shit in mainstream news about the fact

1:03:48

that indigenous people still have to truck

1:03:50

their water in. I

1:03:52

mean, think about what we take for granted. The fact

1:03:55

that you could turn on your faucet and you don't

1:03:57

give a shit. You don't have to save anything. You

1:03:59

save everything. every drop of water. It doesn't

1:04:02

matter if you're showering or if you're going

1:04:04

to do dishes or you want to make

1:04:06

some food. Indigenous people pay very close attention

1:04:08

to every drop of water because you

1:04:10

don't know when you're going to get it again. Yeah.

1:04:14

Funny enough, you know, there's the comments

1:04:17

section is always a place

1:04:19

to avoid, but there's a lot

1:04:21

of people, one of the comments was,

1:04:23

my grandmother left the reservation to become a

1:04:25

part of society. I suggest

1:04:27

those in reservations do the same and they too

1:04:29

can just turn on the faucet like the rest of

1:04:32

us, which is a

1:04:34

pretty ignorant thing to

1:04:36

say. I mean, I think I

1:04:38

compare it. How many people in reservations are still part

1:04:40

of the society? That's just where they live. My God, I

1:04:43

can't believe this. Go ahead. I'm sorry, Julie. But a

1:04:45

lot of, I mean, a lot of, I would

1:04:47

compare it to if somebody

1:04:49

said to you, well, you know, there's

1:04:54

a great depression here in the United States,

1:04:57

you know, why don't you just leave? Just

1:04:59

leave the country. That's like saying that to

1:05:01

somebody who lives on reservation, you know, like

1:05:03

that's their home, that's their land and to

1:05:05

say, you know, well, just leave. Why don't

1:05:07

you just leave? It's not that simple. It's

1:05:09

not that easy. It is comparable to saying

1:05:11

why, you know, hey, there's a depression here

1:05:13

in the US. Why don't you just leave? It's

1:05:16

comparable to that. Yeah. I'm going to piggyback

1:05:18

off that. You know, it really sucks is

1:05:21

that it's either get off the reservation and

1:05:23

get with society or go back to the

1:05:25

reservation that or go back to the

1:05:27

reservation. That's what we say. Yeah.

1:05:29

We face people literally saying, get off

1:05:31

the reservation, get a job. And, you

1:05:33

know, basically it's the kill the Indian,

1:05:36

save the man mentality. It's like, come

1:05:38

be white and Christian or

1:05:40

go back to the reservation. So either they're

1:05:42

saying get off the res or go back

1:05:44

to it. Yeah. They're saying be

1:05:46

like us or disappear. Right.

1:05:48

Yeah. One more little

1:05:51

comment that I read. Someone somebody

1:05:53

wrote on this White House announcement

1:05:55

of, you know, giving Indians clean water.

1:05:58

Nice. But we'll be at the appreciate

1:06:00

it. They were given homes where I

1:06:02

live. They tore them up. So

1:06:05

I don't think they'll appreciate it. Yeah,

1:06:07

that comment section is really worth it.

1:06:09

I mean, anybody just go to that,

1:06:11

the White House Twitter page, this

1:06:15

tweet and just read and then

1:06:17

you'll understand how much anti-indigenous nastiness

1:06:20

is still out there. Yeah. My

1:06:22

favorite though, I have to say, my

1:06:24

favorite is, don't they do the

1:06:26

rain dance to get their water? That was

1:06:28

the other one I liked. No. Oh

1:06:31

my God. No one's saying that. Rain dance. They

1:06:34

said that, really? Yeah. Oh, they

1:06:36

do it all the time too, even joking. It doesn't matter

1:06:38

in society. It happens, hey, Simon's here. Hey, we need some

1:06:41

rain. Why don't you do a dance? Ha, ha, ha, ha,

1:06:43

ha. Yeah, no, they do that all the time. I

1:06:46

don't know if I'm more appalled as a white

1:06:48

person or as a comedian, but both sides of

1:06:50

me are deeply appalled. Let's go

1:06:52

to the phones. David and Santa Fe, hello

1:06:54

and welcome. Thanks for waiting patiently on old

1:06:56

all night. You're almost very madly. Hello.

1:06:59

Hey, ha, ha, ha, ha. Hey

1:07:02

everybody, good to talk to you. What's

1:07:04

up? Hi, David. Hi,

1:07:07

hey, Julie. Hey. What's

1:07:09

on your mind? You recover, you've been

1:07:11

covering a couple of things that I wanted

1:07:13

to cover. So, you know,

1:07:16

well about health and medical care. Everybody

1:07:21

talks about health care. Well, what do

1:07:23

you mean? Medical care or health care?

1:07:25

Because there are two things.

1:07:28

But anyway, you've

1:07:31

covered a lot of that already. And

1:07:33

the other thing was things

1:07:35

like environmental poisons, contaminated water. These

1:07:38

are the things that need to

1:07:40

be talked about. And as

1:07:46

opposed to shit like sports teams

1:07:48

names and fucking

1:07:50

1950s movies that somebody

1:07:52

saw. It all matters

1:07:55

though. The sports teams names matter though. I

1:07:57

mean, you know that. No, that all matters.

1:08:00

Though that matters, but these

1:08:02

other things like environmental poisons,

1:08:05

medical care, contaminated water

1:08:07

and poverty, those are

1:08:09

much more important, I think.

1:08:12

Right. Okay. Well,

1:08:14

yeah. Yeah. I'm

1:08:16

going to go with you on that, David,

1:08:18

but also as I've told you, I've mentioned

1:08:20

this many, many times, that it has been

1:08:22

empirically proven that mascots harm the mental health

1:08:24

and stability of our kids. And

1:08:26

so our kids, unfortunately, are more

1:08:28

likely to commit suicide, meaning indigenous

1:08:31

children than other children of other

1:08:33

demographics. So I don't

1:08:35

want to push mascots off. I

1:08:37

understand clean water is extremely important.

1:08:40

That's why we were fighting up at Standing Rock for

1:08:42

all that time that we were there. But

1:08:44

at the same time, we have to

1:08:47

acknowledge the science that shows us that

1:08:49

there is a detrimental impact of these

1:08:51

Indian names and mascots on our kids.

1:08:55

We can't ignore that. I agree with you on that. Yeah.

1:08:58

Thank you for pointing that out. Right on. Absolutely.

1:09:00

Yeah. One other... David,

1:09:03

thank you. Go ahead, please. Another...

1:09:05

This... In the last few years,

1:09:07

I've heard many times and it makes me want

1:09:10

to spit is people say, oh,

1:09:13

this American experiment. It's

1:09:15

not a fucking experiment,

1:09:17

people. They

1:09:20

tried a lot of experiments, like

1:09:23

Trail of Tears. You

1:09:28

know? Yeah. Right. All

1:09:31

the things, on and on, shit. But it's not an

1:09:33

experiment. That's a cop-out, I think, because people think, oh,

1:09:36

well, it's an experiment. We fucked up.

1:09:39

Oh, we did this. Oh, I see. That was

1:09:41

pretty bad, but it was just... Right. It takes

1:09:43

away the agency and the culpability by just saying, oh,

1:09:45

we were trying something out. I get

1:09:48

you. Right. I don't know. You

1:09:50

say that, John, but I've heard so many

1:09:52

commentators everywhere say, oh, it's an experiment. It

1:09:54

is not. Well, a lot of our... It's

1:09:56

a trope. I probably said it before. Yeah,

1:09:59

go for it. still call the United States a colony.

1:10:04

Really, they're like, we never fucking gave it to you. You

1:10:07

guys gave your own, you guys

1:10:09

gave it a name, you basically

1:10:11

nationalized yourself, but

1:10:13

you came on stolen land, gave something a

1:10:15

name, said that you did it legally,

1:10:17

whatever the fuck that means, like

1:10:20

land theft and rape and murder and genocide

1:10:22

is the right way to do it. Bullshit.

1:10:24

So a lot of our elders still call

1:10:26

the United States a very old

1:10:28

colony. Right on. We

1:10:31

have to take a break. David, I thank you for the call. Simon and

1:10:33

Julie, I have a lot more I want to talk to you guys about.

1:10:35

Will you please stay with us? Stay with us. Take a break. Let's

1:10:38

do it. Sure. Be right

1:10:40

back in just a second. We're at 866-997-4748. This is

1:10:42

Progress. Don't go away. What makes a life a

1:10:44

good one? Is it the adventure you have? Or the friends you find

1:10:46

along the way? Maybe it's pursuing your passion,

1:10:52

or striving to protect,

1:10:54

defend, and save what you believe in, everything

1:10:57

you need. So, what makes a life a good one? In

1:11:01

the Coast Guard, we think it's all of

1:11:03

the above and more, but you'll have to

1:11:05

find out for yourself. So, what

1:11:08

makes a life a good one? In

1:11:10

the Coast Guard, we think it's all

1:11:12

of the above and more, but

1:11:15

you'll have to find out for yourself. Visit

1:11:18

gocoastguard.com to learn more. We

1:11:30

are back with Julie Franchela and Simon

1:11:32

Moyas-Smith at 866-997-GRIT. I

1:11:35

want to get to some more calls, but I want to ask

1:11:37

you, Julie, we've talked a lot

1:11:39

about the epidemic, both in the U.S. and

1:11:41

Canada, of abductions

1:11:43

of indigenous women. And not

1:11:45

just the epidemic of the abductions, but the

1:11:48

epidemic of media indifference to these abductions. We've

1:11:51

talked a lot about the missing white blonde syndrome. Can

1:11:53

you explain, for our listeners and

1:11:56

for people who aren't familiar with the Canadian

1:11:58

government, what is the epidemic? the red

1:12:00

dress alert system? Yes,

1:12:03

this is something that we're hoping

1:12:05

that the United States will follow

1:12:07

suit with and basically the

1:12:09

Canadian government has been taking in

1:12:13

response basically to the long-standing issue

1:12:15

of missing and murdered indigenous women

1:12:17

and girls and two-spirited people steps

1:12:21

towards addressing this. So

1:12:23

in 2021 in their budget, they actually

1:12:25

earmarked $2.2 billion over five years to

1:12:30

specifically for something they call the

1:12:32

red dress alert system. So basically

1:12:34

it's a national system

1:12:38

into where they have

1:12:41

an alert system where they actually if

1:12:43

an indigenous person goes missing, there's a

1:12:45

lot of media attention on it. So

1:12:48

that's something that we don't see and

1:12:50

this they're putting money behind it which you

1:12:53

don't often see. So now fast

1:12:55

forward to 2024, 2023 and there's actually further developments and

1:12:58

they're there.

1:13:02

This is where they're actually launching

1:13:04

this red dress alert system and

1:13:06

it's a tool designed to

1:13:09

quickly inform the public whatever an indigenous

1:13:11

woman, girl or two-spirit person and now

1:13:13

they're actually expanding that to males

1:13:16

as well because boys and

1:13:18

men are going missing as well. And

1:13:21

so the initiative, it's crucial part of

1:13:23

the federal government's national action plan to

1:13:25

tackle missing and murdered indigenous

1:13:27

people and we're hoping that the US

1:13:29

government will do this in

1:13:31

addition to Canada. It's like

1:13:34

an amber alert for people. Right. I

1:13:36

mean we've talked about this before that the

1:13:39

homicide rate against indigenous women and girls is

1:13:41

like six times higher than non-indigenous

1:13:44

women and girls and yet

1:13:47

we're just trying to get a program in

1:13:49

place, an alert system. I

1:13:51

mean I'm grateful it's happening but how

1:13:54

much suffering went down before this

1:13:56

announcement? What it tells you, I

1:13:58

mean we're in a situation where this is needed. And

1:14:00

people are like holy shit what's happening to

1:14:02

indigenous women what's happening to two spirits a

1:14:05

member to spirit doesn't exactly mean gay Two-spirit

1:14:07

it for indigenous people that is a

1:14:10

role that is also it's very spiritual

1:14:12

very holy But it's the way

1:14:14

we reference LGBTQ But

1:14:17

again, unfortunately, this isn't very well

1:14:19

known, you know murdered and missing

1:14:21

indigenous peoples isn't well known There

1:14:24

is the state of California just

1:14:26

recently recognized indigenous people Illuminated

1:14:29

meaning murdered or missing indigenous peoples

1:14:31

and they illuminated their capital in red

1:14:33

to alert people and showed hey indigenous

1:14:36

women indigenous LGBTQ

1:14:39

and boys are going missing

1:14:41

but why right and nobody's

1:14:43

asking the why part Well, the why

1:14:45

part is tied to oil and gas

1:14:47

you have to remember that around Reservations

1:14:50

is this open land and you're

1:14:52

gonna find oil and gas Infrastructures

1:14:54

and they bring men in and

1:14:57

they build what are called man

1:14:59

camps Whenever they build these

1:15:01

man camps around the reservation the number

1:15:04

of indigenous women LGBTQ and boys that

1:15:06

skyrockets and so people are like, why

1:15:08

is it just Indians? What's going on?

1:15:11

Are they going into certain areas and

1:15:13

just targeting them? No, they're around the

1:15:15

reservation Working on oil and gas and

1:15:18

then they're fucking horny. They're horny and

1:15:20

they're surrounded by themselves and they're alone

1:15:22

So oil and gas has a big

1:15:25

big thing to do with murdered and

1:15:27

missing indigenous people And

1:15:29

yet try to imagine the oil and

1:15:31

gas Industry having any kind

1:15:33

of reckoning on this sort of issue Try they

1:15:35

don't have anything about pressure being

1:15:37

great enough to make these CEOs lift a

1:15:39

finger to monitor their own employees No,

1:15:43

they don't they don't say it. Yeah, the

1:15:45

other thing too. I think that it's important for your

1:15:47

listeners to understand is that nobody's

1:15:50

going to Notice or

1:15:52

nobody's going to complain if an indigenous woman

1:15:54

goes missing or an indigenous person goes missing

1:15:56

like you've seen, you know no

1:15:59

offense, but you know, a blonde

1:16:03

white woman going missing and

1:16:05

there's media attention everywhere. Yeah,

1:16:07

absolutely. You know, indigenous women go

1:16:09

missing and nobody says anything. Do you think

1:16:11

that people who, you know, predators out there,

1:16:14

they're pretty smart and they will figure that

1:16:16

out. They know. And if we take an

1:16:18

indigenous woman, nobody's going to

1:16:21

care. So that's oftentimes why they

1:16:23

are targeted. And remember,

1:16:25

this is an epidemic. This is a pandemic. This

1:16:28

is something that happens in Canada, in Alaska, here

1:16:30

in the lower 48 and in Mexico.

1:16:33

In Mexico, they're called maquiladores. And

1:16:35

that's where a lot of the American

1:16:37

corporations, you know, avoiding taxes will build

1:16:40

their – they'll take

1:16:42

whatever facility from here, just

1:16:45

over the border. And then the women work there

1:16:47

and then they go missing. There's actually a story

1:16:49

in the New York Times where a grandma is

1:16:51

seen walking down there on the border with a

1:16:54

shovel just so she can find all of

1:16:56

the female bodies that are buried in shallow

1:16:58

grapes. Oh my God. I

1:17:03

just – I don't want to get back to calls, but I just – I

1:17:06

want to believe that this can become like a

1:17:08

hot issue young people start caring about and making

1:17:10

TikTok videos about. It just sort of seems like

1:17:12

I've given up hope of the establishments doing it

1:17:14

and the media doing it and the institutions doing

1:17:16

it, but maybe this could be a thing that

1:17:19

young people could be the generation to give a fuck

1:17:21

and actually make an effort. I

1:17:24

hate to say this phrase, but popularize

1:17:26

the issue because I have to believe

1:17:28

that the majority of people would care

1:17:30

if they knew this pandemic was going

1:17:32

on. Julie, is that a little too

1:17:34

polyanarous? No, no.

1:17:36

I think that actually is happening. There are

1:17:38

a lot of, like you said,

1:17:41

TikTok accounts, indigenous influencers out there

1:17:43

that are talking about, you know,

1:17:45

missing and murdered indigenous women, one

1:17:47

of them being Lily Gladstone. That

1:17:49

is an issue that is

1:17:51

near and dear to her heart. She brings it up

1:17:53

often. She talks about it a lot on

1:17:56

her social media. She was given an

1:17:58

award for – being

1:18:00

a voice. I think it was Leonardo DiCaprio

1:18:02

that presented the award to her. So in

1:18:04

that sense, you know, there is some media

1:18:07

attention. It's getting out there and you know,

1:18:09

you see the images with

1:18:11

the red handprint across the face.

1:18:13

That's what it represents, missing and murdered indigenous

1:18:16

people. So take

1:18:18

a look on social media and

1:18:20

you'll see. Just do an MMIP

1:18:22

or an MMIW search and there'll

1:18:24

be tons of information out there.

1:18:27

Well, the problem also is in media is

1:18:29

that it's so the most

1:18:31

male, most white industry isn't

1:18:33

oil and gas, isn't banking.

1:18:36

It's media. And

1:18:38

if you look up the documentary

1:18:40

Miss Representation MISS and it demonstrates

1:18:43

how white males are the gatekeepers

1:18:45

of the stories that you listen

1:18:47

to that you watch. And so

1:18:49

it's about trying to get those

1:18:51

stories out there. Even

1:18:53

today, even with the White House tweeting

1:18:56

about giving indigenous people drinking water, they

1:18:58

didn't fucking make it. I

1:19:01

mean, seriously, something as simple as

1:19:03

drinking water and indigenous people wasn't

1:19:05

important enough for these people. So

1:19:07

it's about getting past those gatekeepers

1:19:09

and they're usually old white men

1:19:12

that we're trying to convince to

1:19:14

just please let us tell these

1:19:16

stories. But it's also

1:19:18

profit driven news. That's it. I

1:19:20

mean, it's profit driven ratings, popularity,

1:19:22

quality driven news. So on a

1:19:24

day when Donald Trump is shitting

1:19:26

on the rule of law in

1:19:28

the Supreme Court while he's also

1:19:30

on trial for the porn star in New York City

1:19:33

Court. Yeah. Right. Media is not going to

1:19:35

talk about other things that matter because journalists

1:19:37

have a responsibility to inform. Media

1:19:40

has a responsibility to get ratings

1:19:42

and turn profit. And I'd

1:19:45

like to think that missing people are enough

1:19:47

to get the attention of viewers and turn

1:19:49

a profit for these media companies. But we'll

1:19:52

never know because they don't cover it unless

1:19:54

it's a Natalie Holloway. God

1:19:56

bless her. But that's the only thing I

1:19:58

can tell my students. I tell

1:20:01

my students, you know, it's like we have to

1:20:03

remember that journalism is a business That's

1:20:05

it. So they're gonna focus on like what

1:20:07

sells think of any business It could be

1:20:09

a fucking donut shop Like they're gonna put

1:20:12

their best sellers up front and so even

1:20:14

though we do have the responsibility to tell these

1:20:17

stories They are still a

1:20:19

corporation and so that's why

1:20:21

they don't tell the narrative and as an

1:20:23

editor once told me when I was Writing

1:20:25

at NBC News at 30 Rock. They said

1:20:27

well the only reason we

1:20:29

don't have an NBC Native America is

1:20:31

because it won't generate money There's

1:20:34

an NBC Asian. There's an NBC

1:20:36

Latino. There's an NBC women There's

1:20:39

an NBC black, but there's no

1:20:41

NBC native a vertical because

1:20:44

they don't think they'll make money off of us There

1:20:46

you go. That's media. That's

1:20:49

not journalism. That's corporate media, right?

1:20:51

Let's go to the phones Terry is on the

1:20:53

line from New Mexico Terry. Thank you so much for waiting

1:20:56

on hold Iran with Simon and Julie welcome Hello,

1:20:59

I wanted to say thank you for covering

1:21:01

this topic I'm I'm

1:21:03

in the four corners in New Mexico. Hmm.

1:21:06

I Live

1:21:08

on a border town originally. I was raised

1:21:10

on a reservation, but now I live off

1:21:13

I live on the border town actually still

1:21:15

nice Anyway, um a

1:21:17

lot of a lot of our nails are

1:21:19

hit on the head tonight with this topic And

1:21:22

I wanted to talk about the first thing

1:21:24

was the economic terrorism that goes wrong Okay

1:21:26

with native people you covered cared terrorism yesterday,

1:21:28

and I was laughing when I heard that

1:21:31

guy Misrepresent

1:21:33

a Muslim man. Oh, yeah,

1:21:35

we had a great racist last night One of our

1:21:38

racists who calls up every now and then and he

1:21:40

was talking about how he hates Muslims and it was

1:21:42

beautiful He was saying how he has a neighbor who's

1:21:44

Muslim and he's never talked to his neighbor and I

1:21:46

was like well Well, has your neighbor ever been mean

1:21:48

to you or what? Why won't you talk to him?

1:21:50

I don't I've never even talked and then Chris who's

1:21:53

smarter than me said ask ask this troll How

1:21:56

do you know he's Muslim and the guy said well, he has a

1:21:58

turban and a beard like you

1:22:00

idiot that's a Sikh yeah yeah you can't

1:22:02

even fucking hate right yeah

1:22:05

well we live with that kind of

1:22:07

racism every day on border towns amen

1:22:09

it's it's ridiculous

1:22:12

and you know I go to IHS

1:22:15

well one of the things I want to

1:22:17

bring up was the anti anti-native bias I

1:22:19

call I call myself native I never say

1:22:21

American I'm native I say right on but

1:22:23

on but one one thing

1:22:25

that a lot of employers and

1:22:28

border towns tend to

1:22:30

like to hire native

1:22:32

people because they get out

1:22:34

of covering health care for us you

1:22:38

guys IHS so we don't have to provide health

1:22:42

care or dental any of that you know a lot

1:22:45

of that attitude is prevalent with a lot of

1:22:47

employers on border towns nice I mean I was

1:22:49

blatantly told that by my boss another

1:22:52

thing that I want to bring up was um I

1:22:55

work for a parcel company a

1:22:57

large logistic I'll say a

1:22:59

major logistic company in the

1:23:02

United States and

1:23:04

you know every day I deliver to

1:23:06

these privileged ass people and every

1:23:09

day like I just see the

1:23:12

the grotesque colonization of what

1:23:14

was once indigenous land and it kind of

1:23:16

pisses me off but I continue to work

1:23:19

but one what's awful about that

1:23:21

is we the mascot issue comes

1:23:23

up because I deliver to Durango

1:23:26

Colorado and there's this awful mascot

1:23:28

in the middle of town of a of

1:23:31

a Native American figure and many

1:23:33

many students have a long time try to

1:23:35

get it removed but even

1:23:38

the town of Durango sanction it and call

1:23:40

it well it's a tourist attraction so it's

1:23:42

a good thing you know the wild west

1:23:44

ridiculous yeah every day I

1:23:46

drive by that thing I hate that spies looking at

1:23:49

it because it takes me right

1:23:52

and I don't look like that you know

1:23:54

I'm a hard-working blue-collar guy you know like we're

1:23:57

put ten hour days for these for these

1:23:59

people and You know, that's that's the other

1:24:01

thing one other topic. I want to bring

1:24:03

up to you was just uh What

1:24:07

what what is all talked about

1:24:09

tonight and what was all top covered was

1:24:13

It's just terrorism in itself. I That's

1:24:16

the way I do it. It's to

1:24:18

colonizers terrorizing indigenous people Yeah,

1:24:21

under yeah, I know my name economic

1:24:23

well-being Yeah, and it's

1:24:25

it's it's in the fabric of the United

1:24:27

States. That's how this country sounded That's

1:24:29

how it was developed and it's in this

1:24:32

continually today Yeah,

1:24:34

right now in the media right now in

1:24:36

the media in Israel Indigenous

1:24:40

people are totally being destroyed by

1:24:43

colonizers Yeah, by

1:24:46

by people that aren't indigenous there. That's the

1:24:48

way I see it And

1:24:51

we're we talked about that we're destroying them.

1:24:53

We're destroying them with colonizers weapons, you know,

1:24:55

which is coming from here And

1:24:58

that's it pisses me off because it's never

1:25:00

the true story about the indigenous struggle is

1:25:02

never covered and it's never covered in the

1:25:05

media And that was prevalent

1:25:07

and that was true. That was true

1:25:09

during the standing

1:25:11

rock protests because

1:25:13

we were protesting the The

1:25:17

terrorism that these oil companies were doing to our

1:25:19

land for our drinking water We're

1:25:21

not there at standing rock to I Wasn't

1:25:23

up there. I really wanted to quit my job

1:25:25

and go I was really really tempted just to

1:25:28

like walk off my job and go there But

1:25:30

there was a lot of people from our community

1:25:32

that went there from our tribe that went there

1:25:35

Yeah, we're gonna have to talk about that at

1:25:37

some point I mean why we mentioned standing rock

1:25:39

often enough without going into it, but I was

1:25:41

up there. I lived up there In

1:25:44

the Oglala camp, etc. So but one of these days

1:25:46

we're gonna have to talk about I love to talk

1:25:48

about it and Terry I'm so sorry. We're hitting a

1:25:50

break. I've got to go to commercial, but thank you

1:25:52

for your call I love your call and I hope you'll

1:25:54

call us more often. It's really a pleasure to hear your story Thank

1:25:57

you. Let's take a really quick call for Simon and

1:25:59

Julie really quick just for Frank

1:26:01

and Georgia because it's a special

1:26:03

day you're on with Simon and

1:26:05

Julie. Frank hello. Hey John

1:26:08

and Julie and Simon.

1:26:10

Hi Frank. The

1:26:14

show I was talking about is Murder and

1:26:16

Bighorn. Have y'all seen that?

1:26:19

What's it called? Yeah your phone. Murder

1:26:21

and Bighorn. Oh Murder and Bighorn.

1:26:25

Yeah. Yeah. Have y'all seen that?

1:26:28

Yeah that's a documentary. Yeah

1:26:30

that breaks my heart. I mean

1:26:32

I watched the first episode and

1:26:34

it's like I mean I

1:26:37

just could not watch it anymore.

1:26:39

It was so so horrifying that

1:26:42

uh that's happening you

1:26:44

know real life and there's

1:26:46

nothing you want to do about it and

1:26:49

um I watch it some more but I

1:26:51

mean it's just very very difficult because of

1:26:53

this feel so terrible and uh

1:26:56

I mean the way the infrastructure is

1:26:58

made it's just it just it just

1:27:02

it just begs it to happen and they

1:27:04

have no no recourse. No

1:27:06

and they justified it with a bible. That's

1:27:09

a lot of it was yeah they literally said

1:27:11

well no Jesus said we can do this and

1:27:13

I'm Christian in your mouth. And

1:27:16

speaking of that 1920. What a show. That's

1:27:18

horrific. Oh yeah. I mean and I know we

1:27:20

have the actor we have the actor

1:27:22

who plays we have the actor who plays the

1:27:24

priest on our show a couple times. I mean

1:27:26

that that that's an amazing amazing show and

1:27:28

horrifying. He's doing a great job. Yeah but

1:27:31

um yeah. Frank is this your

1:27:33

birthday? Is that your birthday sir?

1:27:35

No man I called a couple of weeks ago

1:27:37

and it's my birthday. I mentioned

1:27:39

I did here you know. I called a couple

1:27:41

of weeks ago on April 11th from when all

1:27:43

those great birthdays happened. Ah okay.

1:27:46

It's not your birthday but happy birthday

1:27:48

anyway. You're still in April and it

1:27:50

still counts. It's your

1:27:52

birthday. Happy birthday man.

1:27:55

Happy birthday. Listen if you get

1:27:57

a chance try to watch the film Incident at Oglala produced

1:27:59

by Robert Rolle. Redford that tells the story of Leonard

1:28:01

Peltier and why he's in jail. It's not

1:28:03

a series, it's just a documentary and it

1:28:05

is completely gripping. It's really worth watching. Right

1:28:08

on. Thank you, Matt. Also Indian Horse. And

1:28:11

Indian Horse too. We're out of time and

1:28:13

we didn't even have a chance to do any did you knows.

1:28:16

I'm so sorry guys. Damn. There's so much

1:28:18

to talk about and so many callers. Simon, how do our listeners follow you

1:28:20

and keep up with all your work? On

1:28:22

Instagram, it's Simon to take a pic or

1:28:24

on Twitter or X at Simon Moyes Smith.

1:28:26

Julie? You can follow me

1:28:28

at Julie Prangela on all social media. Guys,

1:28:31

I love this segment. I look forward to it

1:28:33

every week. Thank you so much for elevating the

1:28:35

whole discourse. We're honored to have you both. It's

1:28:38

just precious to us. Have a great evening and

1:28:40

a great week. Thank you so much.