0:00

Do you guys know Bobby Slaton is? They used to call him

0:02

the Pitbull of comedy. He was from

0:04

San Francisco, very famous guy out there. So

0:08

he would take me as his opening act because when he

0:10

was in New York, he saw me on stage and he bought

0:12

a couple of my jokes.

0:14

So he decided, you know, it would be cheaper.

0:16

I'll just bring this idiot with me. I'll bring

0:18

this idiot with me. And that'll

0:21

be the way it would go. That's very funny. That was great. But

0:24

we played there right after the 1989 earthquake

0:28

when the punchline still had a crack in the

0:30

wall going up it. And

0:33

I'd walk around with Bobby and

0:36

I'll never forget, this fucking homeless

0:39

dude, clearly like, he'd been out there a

0:41

while, like really looked

0:43

gone. We walked by and he turns

0:45

around and he goes, Bobby's slated.

0:49

Comedian, extraordinary.

0:53

That's the way you know you tapped into a city. That's

0:55

when you know, yeah, yeah. That's when you know you're locked in.

0:58

Hey, all.

1:19

Welcome to the podcast. It's The Problem with

1:21

me, Jon Stewart. The show is currently on Apple

1:23

TV Plus. It's season two.

1:25

We got new episodes coming out of your weekly there.

1:27

I think last week was incarceration, which

1:30

is of course America's

1:32

real cancel culture, the one that actually

1:35

matters and actually has consequences

1:37

that affect people's lives for their whole lives. And

1:40

we are joined today by London Breed. She's

1:42

a mayor of San Francisco criticized, I think, by

1:44

everybody for either being too soft

1:47

on crime, too tough on crime, too hard on things.

1:50

There's no pleasing people. We got our writers,

1:52

Chris Achaimevich, our head writer, Chris Achaimevich. That's

1:55

right. And Jay Jordan. Hello. You know,

1:58

it's a great week for me apparently.

2:00

Jews are back. Whoo!

2:02

Jews are back thanks to Jonah

2:04

Hill. 21 Jump Street, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

2:06

John, I do wanna get your thoughts. I mean, I think

2:10

you've done some pretty good stuff

2:11

too. Yeah, yeah, yeah. What about your comedic performances?

2:15

I really thought Big Daddy would have done it, but you know. We

2:17

can send him a tape. Yeah. We

2:19

can send him a tape. Jews, we've been going about it all wrong. We've been showing people

2:21

Schindler's List and show-up. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. We

2:24

got to show them bomb comms

2:28

and other shit. The other part

2:30

of the Instagram post from Kanye was

2:32

that he was like, apparently Jesus

2:35

was Jewish. Who knew?

2:38

He spent a lot of time learning some shit. Here's

2:40

the thing. I don't need to hear his

2:42

opinions on anything anymore. And here's my reasoning.

2:46

Anybody who says Hitler needs to

2:48

be

2:48

forgiven but is still mad at Pete

2:50

Davidson, I really, I'm

2:53

pretty sure I don't have to listen to that

2:55

person. Well, Hitler didn't date his wife. Well,

2:58

you don't know that. I guess I don't.

3:01

Oh my God. Yeah, because Hitler's still alive

3:03

in South America. You can't, yeah. You

3:05

never know. You never know.

3:07

I'm going to be talking about some, I

3:09

don't know what, I actually don't know what we're talking about. I

3:12

got something to talk about, but I... We got

3:14

stuff. What do you got? Well,

3:16

we're on, we're on indictment watch, tick

3:19

tock, tick tock. As we speak. As

3:21

we speak. Yeah. Is there any protocol

3:23

to that? Should I be in a lifeguard chair? What

3:26

is my... Just like, be

3:28

on your toes. You're just on your toes constantly

3:30

and you need to have an opinion. I love that,

3:33

again, news media creates this narrative that

3:35

if the indictment comes, the world is

3:37

different.

3:38

They'll

3:40

get their, you know, two days of coverage on

3:43

it and we'll all go back to the same fucking

3:45

thing we've been doing beforehand. It's kind of what you

3:47

described where it's like, and we go to the courthouse

3:49

and right now, There's a tumbleweed,

3:52

but eventually somebody's

3:54

gonna be there. Didn't somebody walk

3:56

by? I remember when all this broke. We didn't

3:58

have a podcast last week, but the.

4:00

The big story broke, I think, that I think

4:02

Trump announced he was gonna get indicted

4:04

on Tuesday. Mm-hmm. Yes. And all

4:07

you did, like people that had to, because

4:09

you gotta go buy that courthouse to get to work,

4:12

and it's just barricades and TV

4:14

cameras and nobody else.

4:16

Yeah, that's it. That's it. It's just

4:19

reporters. I read a thing that a

4:21

reporter went to interview somebody of like, why

4:23

are you here? And the other person was just like, I'm also

4:25

a reporter. Oh my God. And they're

4:27

like, okay.

4:28

Yeah, the coverage of this is just the

4:30

Spider-Man meme. It's the Spider-Man meme. It's them

4:32

pointing at each other. This is my story. You know what it probably

4:34

looks like down there? They're making a movie

4:37

about a politician who's getting indicted,

4:39

but the cast, they haven't

4:42

gotten here yet, they're still in the trailers. So they're

4:44

just setting up the cameras, waiting for somebody

4:46

to yell action. They're definitely signs

4:49

for crafty that way. Yeah,

4:50

it's the Michael Bay, it's jail president.

4:53

Yes. So we can finally

4:55

get to shooting this movie

4:58

about

4:58

Trump, who is apparently producing it.

5:01

Yes. He's gonna yell action, he's gonna, oh,

5:03

you know what would be an awesome way

5:05

for him to show up at his indictment?

5:08

Escalator. But

5:11

this time, remember how he came down

5:13

the escalator to announce? Yes, yes, yes. What if

5:15

he comes up the escalator to get indicted?

5:18

It would be incredible. I just think, cinematically,

5:22

any escalator related indictment

5:25

would be a wonderful button, a real

5:28

loop closing moment. I'm not

5:30

gonna lie, John, it is the most hilarious chase

5:33

scene you could imagine. Is

5:35

up an escalator? Just waiting. They're

5:38

gonna come on, and then they're coming down

5:40

the escalator and coming back up

5:42

the, I just think everything he does of

5:44

consequence should be done

5:47

via escalator. Via escalator, I think that's

5:49

a good note. I hope

5:51

he takes it. And I don't want anyone to clip this

5:53

and think it's me predicting anything, but even

5:56

I think an escalator funeral would

5:58

also be beautiful for him. Oh, that's a...

6:00

If he ascends, he goes up

6:02

to the purling. If he

6:04

can also go down, we don't know. And we don't know.

6:06

We don't know. Start him in the middle.

6:09

You know, it would be nice to moving sidewalk if you

6:11

don't doing, there's just something about

6:13

people moving while standing

6:15

still.

6:16

That's just comic. It

6:19

just, you always imagine Buster Keaton, boy,

6:21

if Buster Keaton had ever had access

6:23

to an escalator. Oh man. All of

6:26

the movies he would have made. John, speaking

6:28

of manufactured films and photographs,

6:30

the big thing last week was all of the

6:33

artificial, intelligent, created images

6:36

of him possibly getting

6:38

arrested. They were so dramatic. They were so

6:40

dramatic. I mean, they were great. They

6:42

were what everybody wanted to see. He's like fighting

6:44

off the people. He's dodging the police.

6:47

Now, how does that happen

6:48

with a, and pardon

6:50

my Luddite nature? No, that's

6:52

fine. So what you do, So

6:55

you go to whatever your

6:57

AI bot of choice is and

7:00

you type in, I wanna

7:02

see Trump being arrested and you can kind

7:04

of add flourishes. You can be like cinematically

7:06

or in a dramatic fashion and then

7:08

it generates the thing.

7:09

You can pick the genre. Like I could say, I

7:11

wanna Roy Lichtenstein of

7:14

Trump being arrested. Absolutely,

7:15

absolutely. Really?

7:18

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Because I did think from now

7:21

on all movies will be storyboarded

7:23

in this way. Oh, for sure, for

7:25

sure. I'd like to see Spielberg take a whack

7:27

at this. I wanna see mine in the

7:29

style of Dolly where he's like melting

7:32

like a clock. I think he

7:33

already does look like he's melting. I wanna

7:36

see a surrealist version of Trump.

7:39

I wish this would work. I'm scheduled for,

7:41

as an aging gentleman, I'm scheduled for a procedure,

7:45

I don't know, tomorrow or the next day. I

7:47

would love that to just be, I could plug it

7:49

into AI and not have to, Like

7:52

I got to eat green jello for two days.

7:54

Like, do all this shit. Like it's

7:57

the preparation. Apparently the procedure

7:59

itself is like...

8:00

You're not even awake, it's over

8:02

in 20 minutes, but for God's sakes, the

8:04

preparation is, if I could use

8:06

a chat bot to somehow. To

8:09

like do your procedure for you? Well,

8:11

just type in old Jews colon

8:15

in the style of Renoir. I

8:19

want a Magritte of an old Jews

8:21

colon, and then they can just look at that and

8:23

say like,

8:23

oh my God, look at the pixelation

8:26

on the polyps. It's fantastic.

8:29

I love this. I do think you

8:31

could A, I bought an old Jews colon.

8:33

I think they would do it.

8:35

So we are on indictment watch and John's

8:37

colonoscopy watch. That's right. And where

8:40

are there more cameras set up right now? No one knows.

8:42

This

8:44

is awful. This is a terrible thing

8:47

to even be talking about. Yeah,

8:49

but this Trump indictment actually does relate to this

8:51

week's episode, which was incarceration. This

8:54

incarceration episode, Jay Jordan,

8:56

who is not Jay Jordan, but Jay

8:58

Jordan. Can I say the most confusing booking of

9:01

this show's history? You're not kidding. I

9:03

kept thinking like, why isn't this guy funnier? But

9:05

it turned out different person. He's

9:08

a guest on our panel

9:09

on the incarceration episode. He was very

9:11

funny and very passionate. The most,

9:14

I thought, effective communicator

9:17

of the season.

9:18

Agreeing. Charismatic, passionate,

9:21

concise. He is an advocate for

9:23

people that have been incarcerated And

9:27

he has been in prison. He has a record. And

9:29

the things that he's had to go through

9:32

after serving his time

9:34

to reclaim his life and

9:37

his humanity

9:38

are astonishing. Astonishing.

9:42

Astonishing. I was just so captivated

9:45

by his tenacity and

9:47

story. And we got to figure out a way

9:49

to get that guy more attention in his organization.

9:52

Jay Jordan and

9:55

Gavin Newsom we just talked to with same episode incarceration.

9:58

but we're also gonna talk to, you know.

10:00

London breed is the mayor of San Francisco. What

10:02

a complicated little soup of

10:04

problems they have. Oh yeah. And

10:08

they certainly exist in the eyes of conservatives

10:10

as, I

10:12

don't know if it's Sodom and Gomorrah, but certainly it's one of

10:14

them. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, at least the one,

10:16

at least the one. No, the Castro's

10:19

there, it can be both. It can

10:21

be both, John. That's true,

10:23

that's a very good point. And the Mitchell brothers were there, so that

10:25

all- But John, when you talk about San Francisco,

10:28

it's one of those things like Chicago, like New York City,

10:30

now San Francisco is shorthand for people

10:33

saying they dislike a larger

10:35

city because of problems that

10:38

are multifaceted and problems that are myriad,

10:40

not limited to drug abuse,

10:42

not limited to mental illness, not limited to a housing

10:44

crisis, but they just say, oh, San Francisco.

10:47

And by the

10:47

way, not limited to cities.

10:50

Yes. Right. Rural area, Oklahoma City, rural

10:53

areas, city areas, They are all facing

10:56

these devastating complex

10:59

issues and it's super easy to

11:01

point to the liberal bastions

11:03

that are confronting them. But

11:06

red states take fentanyl too, baby. Red

11:08

stakes have property crime, red stakes have

11:10

homicides, sometimes at much higher levels. So

11:13

we need to get past all that and

11:16

get past the finding. And I think London

11:17

Breed is a great person to talk to because she

11:20

takes a lot of shit about it, but she is tenacious.

11:24

So I will speak with her and then

11:26

catch up with you cats in a little bit.

11:28

Amazing, can't wait. We

11:34

are delighted to be joined today. You

11:37

know, our episode was on incarceration

11:40

culture, the real cancel culture in

11:42

American culture. And we are joined today by London

11:45

Breed. She is the mayor of

11:47

San Francisco. She is

11:50

too tough on crime and yet too lenient

11:52

on crime. It's a terrible position to be

11:54

in, unfortunately. Mayor, thank you

11:57

for joining us.

11:58

Thank you. Glad to be here. with you. Mayor

12:01

Bre, give us just a quick

12:03

brief of your background because

12:05

I think it's fascinating. You grew up

12:07

in San Francisco. You've had real

12:10

trials and tribulations

12:12

in terms of growing up and the things

12:14

that you experienced with your family. So if you could give

12:17

us a little bit of that context before

12:19

we really get into the conversation.

12:20

Of course. I mean, I was born and raised in

12:22

San Francisco. I grew up in public housing.

12:25

My grandmother raised me and two of my

12:27

brothers, and it was

12:29

a notorious public housing development

12:32

plaza East, also known as out of

12:34

control projects. And

12:36

there was a lot of crime, drama,

12:38

hopelessness, despair, frustration

12:41

and poverty. And

12:43

there were challenges, of course, with the police, there was

12:45

challenges with poverty and crime

12:47

and other issues. I have a one

12:50

of my brothers who is still incarcerated,

12:52

one of my sisters I lost to a

12:54

drug overdose. And the

12:56

reason why I of course do this work has everything

12:59

to do with changing the outcomes of families

13:01

especially in this city who have

13:04

grown up with similar circumstances.

13:06

And so it's a real challenge

13:09

in trying to balance that and make these hard

13:11

decisions. But I do it from a place

13:13

of understanding what it feels to

13:15

live like a lot of people

13:17

who are still in those circumstances.

13:19

And so you then have to ride

13:21

the balance. I think people would

13:23

put you in that progressive camp.

13:26

Somebody, I mean, I think anybody who gets elected in

13:28

San Francisco is probably gonna be somewhere

13:31

on that spectrum of progressiveness.

13:33

On a national perspective, I

13:35

would say that I'm very progressive. That's

13:38

true. But locally here. Progressive

13:40

in San Francisco is, yes, that's true.

13:41

Is way different. It's people

13:44

and oftentimes who have never lived like

13:46

the circumstances that they're fighting against.

13:49

And that's a little bit of frustration,

13:52

especially for people who don't understand.

13:54

I appreciate the empathy, but we

13:56

want real solutions and real change not

13:59

dependency.

14:00

we want to transform communities for

14:02

the better,

14:02

and we want the communities to also be

14:04

safe. So talk about that

14:07

moment that we were in,

14:10

the talk after George

14:12

Floyd, I think America suddenly went, hey,

14:15

do

14:15

we have a problem with race in this country? I

14:17

think there was a real shock where

14:19

people thought, huh,

14:21

I'm hearing about this for the first

14:23

time. You've

14:25

lived the experience for all these years,

14:28

But suddenly the pressure was on

14:30

that

14:31

defunding the police was the

14:33

answer and especially

14:35

in a city like San Francisco, which is

14:37

so progressive. I

14:39

imagine it was even more intense there.

14:43

You believe more in reform,

14:46

I'm assuming. Yes. But I want

14:48

to be clear, I have never been supportive

14:50

of completely defunding the police. I

14:53

think that was the wrong message. And I

14:55

think that in my conversations with African

14:57

Americans in this city, even those who have had

14:59

encounters with law enforcement, they

15:01

didn't necessarily agree with that message either.

15:05

What we wanted was fairness in our treatment

15:07

with law enforcement and to not

15:09

be singled out. I mean, we've had people

15:11

in this city who were falsely accused

15:13

of things, arrested for things they never did. I've

15:17

seen the police brutality on a

15:19

lot of different levels. and

15:22

really this shine, George Floyd's death

15:25

shined a light on this like never before because

15:27

I think people were home and really focused

15:30

on seeing this in

15:32

a different kind of way.

15:33

And it was a piece of tape that was undeniably,

15:36

I think it's very difficult to shock Americans

15:38

conscious at this point. And

15:40

to have that breakthrough and permeate

15:42

into people's consciousness,

15:44

it must have been as truly awful

15:46

as it was to permeate.

15:49

to permeate.

15:51

Definitely. But for African Americans,

15:53

it was the norm for us. And

15:56

what we saw for the first time

15:58

more people who were not...

16:00

African Americans expressing

16:03

really disapproval

16:05

and frustration and anger

16:07

about what they saw. And

16:09

it brought people together like never

16:12

before. And it created an opportunity

16:15

to really invest in making

16:17

significant changes around reforms, which San

16:19

Francisco was already on the path to doing,

16:22

but also the kinds of investments needed

16:24

to be made specifically in African American

16:27

community, which is what I did

16:29

in San Francisco

16:30

with the Dreamkeeper Initiative. And

16:32

that was to focus on diverting $60

16:35

million that year to the

16:38

African-American community for change and support.

16:40

We didn't cut our police force. We

16:42

didn't deviate from our

16:44

reforms. We made some adjustments

16:47

to shine a light on this particular issue

16:50

differently than we ever have before. And those

16:52

investments are are starting to really

16:55

show a lot of change in San

16:57

Francisco, not to the point of where

16:59

we want them to be, but definitely better

17:01

than what they used to be.

17:03

Mayor, I want to talk to you about that because this

17:06

is kind of an interesting fault line on it. You

17:08

know, obviously crime and chaos and

17:12

quality of life is a very powerful

17:15

political

17:16

motivator. And certainly San Francisco

17:18

and in Chicago and Philadelphia, major

17:21

urban cities, are generally on

17:23

the front lines of the quality of life

17:25

argument, politically.

17:28

Generally though, the quality of life argument

17:31

is around how white

17:35

gentrified areas are experiencing

17:38

the city.

17:38

Very rarely is the quality of life argument

17:40

being made for the

17:43

poorer areas in those cities.

17:46

that's generally not a political

17:48

winner. And so that revelatory

17:51

window into what conditions

17:53

are like

17:54

in communities that are struggling is

17:58

surprising to many people.

18:00

but it's not what they view

18:02

as the changes that need to

18:04

be made.

18:05

What they don't like is I don't want people

18:07

going to the bathroom in front of my nicer

18:10

apartment building, but they don't,

18:12

I generally think those quality of life

18:14

discussions

18:15

don't involve changing

18:18

the kinds of entrenched conditions

18:21

of struggle that exist in

18:23

many of these cities. Well,

18:25

I think that they need to. Yes.

18:28

they have to because, you know, I

18:31

want to change San Francisco as

18:33

a whole, not just for some people, but for

18:35

all people. And there are certain neighborhoods

18:38

that definitely continue to suffer. I've

18:41

talked publicly about the Tenderloin. Most

18:43

people suggested I shy away

18:45

from the Tenderloin because it's always

18:47

been that way, always

18:49

been problematic. For

18:50

those who don't know, the Tenderloin is kind of like what

18:53

you would consider like a red light district or something

18:55

where there's, it really is,

18:57

I imagine you would think of it as like a Times Square district

19:00

to some extent.

19:01

And people have said don't

19:03

touch it, once you touch it, you own

19:05

it. And for me, many

19:08

of the people who live there, I grew up with.

19:10

Many of the people who live there are folks

19:13

who were formerly incarcerated, have

19:16

substance use disorder challenges, immigrant

19:18

families and business owners and

19:21

seniors. This is a

19:23

community of people who

19:26

live in poverty in many instances

19:28

and are neglected. Why should they

19:31

have to live in the kinds of conditions

19:33

where the streets are not clean, where there's

19:36

open air drug dealing, where there's

19:38

violence consistently? So

19:41

for me, it was necessary to aggressively

19:44

tackle this issue in a lot of ways

19:46

that have not necessarily been very

19:49

popular because I have advocated

19:51

for the arrest of many of the fentanyl drug

19:53

dealers that have been problematic

19:56

in this community. Also, aggressive

19:58

measures around forcing people into treatment,

20:01

that is not the most popular

20:04

thing to do. Putting more police on the

20:06

streets, but also putting alternatives

20:08

to policing, more ambassadors.

20:10

Who is that not popular with, Mayor? Who

20:13

is complaining about arresting fentanyl dealers?

20:15

And that seems like a, that's bold, even

20:18

for a very progressive city, not to want to arrest

20:21

fentanyl dealers.

20:22

We have a board of supervisors, which is our legislative

20:24

body. It's like our city council. And there are

20:27

members of that body who feel

20:29

that they are the carrier of the torch

20:32

for progressive values in San Francisco.

20:35

And they are constantly- The Haight-Ashbury

20:36

Brigade.

20:38

Kinda, yes. Yeah. They

20:41

are the ones who are oftentimes trying to carry

20:43

the torch. And to be clear, these

20:45

are people who don't know what it feels like

20:48

to live in these conditions. And

20:50

they are constantly pushing against

20:53

the recommendations that are being

20:56

even made by the people who are living in the conditions

20:58

that are

20:59

so frustrating. And that's sort of the point

21:02

that I was making, is the political pressure tends

21:04

to come from when the

21:06

richer tourists have to walk through

21:09

the tenderloin. It's always that idea of

21:11

this is quality of life policing.

21:14

But nobody ever really talks about the

21:16

quality of life

21:18

of the individuals who are living in

21:20

these entrenched poor communities.

21:23

Definitely. And how do we address

21:26

that? Because that's generational. If

21:29

you're a fortunate politician, you get

21:32

two terms, maybe three, I don't know

21:34

what the limits are in San Francisco. Two for

21:36

San Francisco. Two for San Francisco. As

21:38

progressive as San Francisco is, I'm surprised

21:40

it's not rotating every few months, where

21:44

everybody gets a turn running San Francisco.

21:48

But are there things that you can do, the

21:50

solution is always, well, let's just put more police

21:53

in there.

21:54

When people talk about cleaning up a city,

21:56

it's always, well, let's clean up the streets, get

21:58

these people off the streets. but

22:00

it seems cosmetic to a large

22:02

extent.

22:02

How do you get at the more root issues?

22:05

Well, I got to tell you, it is difficult, but

22:08

I am proud of the work that we've done here in San

22:10

Francisco. In fact, we've been

22:12

able to help get close to 10,000

22:14

people off the streets through

22:18

permanent supportive housing as well as

22:20

our shelter system. And this is after the

22:22

pandemic, when we had to remove

22:25

people from our shelter system because it was

22:27

a congregate living setting. And

22:29

so as a result of some of our investments, San

22:32

Francisco saw a 15% reduction

22:34

in unsheltered homelessness and

22:38

a 3% reduction in overall homelessness.

22:41

And it requires so

22:43

much work. And when I say work, it's not just, here's

22:45

a place for you to say, it's wraparound

22:48

services for those who struggle with mental

22:50

illness and substance use disorder. And

22:53

it's what we do in the city, like in terms of some

22:55

of the hotels we've been able to purchase, some

22:57

of the units we've been able to rent, some

23:00

new affordable housing developments that we've been

23:02

able to build and open after years

23:04

of bureaucratic delay, it's

23:05

a combinations of things. Homelessness

23:08

is not just the problem. The

23:10

problem is of course the behavior

23:13

and the challenges that exist from

23:15

my perspective from a lot of the use

23:18

of drugs and the psychosis

23:20

that happens as a result of

23:22

the use of drugs. And oftentimes that's not

23:25

reversible. So we have people

23:27

who are more erratic, people who are more combative,

23:30

people who are more engaged

23:33

in the kind of behavior where people are

23:35

afraid.

23:35

And when I say people are afraid, I'm talking

23:38

about the seniors and the families and the

23:40

businesses that are in the tenderloin community,

23:43

because I'm having the conversations with them.

23:45

And these are people who are in tears asking

23:48

us to do more, to do more,

23:50

to make their neighborhoods safer. And

23:52

it is definitely an uphill battle, but

23:55

the conditions of the streets around the use

23:57

of drugs and the open air drug dealing, we

23:59

can't.

24:00

just accept that as normal because

24:02

people are suffering from addiction. This is not about

24:04

a

24:04

war on drugs, resurrecting

24:07

a war on drugs. Fentanyl is

24:09

killing people in San Francisco in higher

24:11

rates than it did during the height of the COVID

24:14

pandemic. And we need to treat it like

24:16

a crisis and really focus on

24:19

the kind of work that involves making sure

24:21

we look at safe consumption sites

24:24

treatment on demand, but we have to

24:26

have a level of force associated

24:29

with that to really get people on the right path.

24:32

Mayor, and I'm not going to, you know, I won't

24:34

make San Francisco as sort of

24:37

the avatar of, you know,

24:39

all cities that have entrenched areas

24:41

of struggle and these kinds of things, but talk about you've

24:44

been there, your family for a couple generations.

24:47

How many generations since has your family been there?

24:49

So my grandmother came here

24:51

from Texas and my mother was born here.

24:54

I was born here. So you've seen

24:56

the generational

24:58

struggle as it's gone through the cycle.

25:01

In your mind,

25:03

what is it that causes that

25:06

to be so difficult to eradicate?

25:09

What were some of the levers

25:12

that would have needed to be pulled

25:15

to alleviate some of those issues so

25:17

that it doesn't become this terrible

25:20

cycle?

25:21

I think a big part of it is

25:24

poverty for sure. And

25:27

the opportunities that need to meet people

25:29

where they are, we can't make assumptions that,

25:32

for example, if you give someone a job

25:34

to be a chemist, that they are even prepared

25:37

to be a chemist. We have to have

25:39

conversations with people, meet people where they are,

25:41

provide opportunities. But when we

25:43

also provide training,

25:45

it's paid training.

25:48

We're paying people to go through training so that

25:50

they can get a job or start their

25:52

own business so that they are able to take care of

25:54

themselves. That's

25:54

one part of it. But also

25:57

the other part of it is, you know, mental

25:59

illness and.

26:00

substance use disorder are complicated. These

26:02

are not just people who have experienced

26:05

poverty. In some cases, these are

26:07

folks who have affluent families,

26:10

relatives who want to help them and support them,

26:12

people who may have been addicted to painkillers

26:15

and end up on fentanyl and other

26:18

drugs like that in the tenderloin, you see

26:20

a variety of different people. And I think

26:23

one of the challenges that we need

26:25

to deal with is how illegal

26:28

drugs are so accessible, not

26:30

just in our city, but in our country, and

26:33

how we mobilize and deal

26:35

with this, and how we provide and

26:37

make it normal for people to get treatment,

26:40

make it normal to provide safe consumption

26:42

sites so that those struggling with addiction

26:45

can not do it in isolation where they could

26:47

potentially overdose and die. And

26:50

when they're ready for treatment, they can get

26:52

the help that they need. So I think looking at

26:54

things differently, not just, oh, these people

26:56

are addicted to drugs and we don't want to see that.

26:58

So like, you know, get rid of it,

27:00

stop it. But people

27:02

are going to always be addicted to something,

27:04

whether it's gambling, alcohol, drugs.

27:07

So how do we create a better system

27:09

to provide support? Not for those

27:11

who have money, but for those who

27:13

need it to make sure that they're

27:15

getting the treatment and support they need. And

27:18

if anyone has experienced with family

27:21

members who suffer from drug addiction,

27:23

it's not as easy as, you know, let

27:25

me take you to get treatment or stop. It's

27:28

not easy. So it's like how

27:30

do we meet people where they are, but

27:32

make it easier so as soon as they say

27:34

they're ready, we're able to instantly

27:36

get them on methadone or treatment. That's

27:39

what a lot of our street medicine team does when

27:41

they're out on the streets and trying

27:43

to get people help and into treatment. We're

27:45

trying to make it as easy as possible, but

27:48

let me tell you, it is a uphill battle.

27:49

Do you feel like you're

27:52

just, I mean, spitting in the wind?

27:54

I mean, first of all, these are interventions that are

27:56

happening.

27:57

way too far down the line to

27:59

really. the kind of impacts to change it, you

28:02

know, on a real fundamental

28:05

way. But does any city,

28:07

not just San Francisco, but does

28:09

any city have the kind of resources

28:12

and the kind of will

28:15

to tackle the

28:16

complexity of this enormous

28:19

mental health crisis and this enormous

28:21

substance abuse crisis, which is

28:23

fueled by so many other things in

28:25

a city, is that even, is

28:27

that a realistic or is the

28:29

goal of, you know, is the goal of

28:31

this

28:34

is just to stop

28:36

the bleeding to some extent?

28:39

I think what we are doing in San Francisco,

28:41

sadly, is trying to stop the bleeding

28:44

rather than the- You're still at that phase of

28:46

it.

28:46

We are, and we can't do this

28:49

alone. We can't arrest our rate out of this

28:51

problem. We can't get

28:53

enough people into treatment to make

28:56

a dent. We need help from the state

28:58

and the federal government. I mean, we can't,

29:00

for example, if you have mental

29:03

illness and you're out on the streets and you're walking

29:05

in and out of traffic, we can do

29:07

a 72 hour hold, but

29:10

through our legal system, if you say I'm okay

29:12

and you wanna go back on the streets, you

29:14

are allowed to do that. It's under

29:16

state law, which we know our governor is

29:18

trying to change now so that we can

29:20

make the laws work better in order to commit

29:23

people and provide a conservatorship so

29:25

that we're able to make decisions for people that

29:27

can't make decisions for themselves.

29:29

Would you have the beds and

29:31

the professionals, and I'll tell

29:33

you what I'm driving towards in a second, but would you have

29:35

the beds and the professionals to be able

29:37

to give the kind of level of care that

29:40

would be needed to

29:41

create a real dent

29:43

in

29:45

that population?

29:46

Not entirely, but the good news in

29:48

San Francisco is that we have been aggressively

29:52

adding behavioral health beds, both inpatient

29:55

and outpatient. They're very,

29:57

the outpatient beds are a little

29:59

bit.

30:00

know, easier to control because it's a

30:02

temporary time period. But

30:04

the inpatient where we have to contain

30:06

people sometimes in a locked

30:08

mental health facility, those

30:10

are very expensive to, to produce.

30:13

And, and my perspective is, you

30:15

know, we need to divert the resources that

30:17

we might be using to build more jails

30:19

and build more prisons to really having

30:22

the kind of mental health facility that

30:24

could meet the needs of those suffering from

30:27

schizophrenia or dementia

30:29

or issues where they can't necessarily

30:31

take care of themselves. And they may not have

30:34

family to support them, but they need

30:36

a different level of support.

30:38

And this is where our attention needs to be focused.

30:41

You know, we took a trip to San Quentin with

30:44

the governor, and we walked around. And even

30:46

within that facility, so

30:49

many of the people that were there, I'm not suggesting

30:51

they didn't

30:52

do something. But

30:55

a lot of it is a mental health

30:57

issue. There are people there

30:59

with a lot of mental health disorders

31:02

and mental health disorders that make being

31:04

out of that prison much more complex and

31:06

much more difficult. And if we're trying to tackle

31:09

a recidivism rate,

31:10

that's, you know, 50 percent

31:14

without tackling that aspect

31:17

of it

31:18

makes it near impossible,

31:20

I would imagine.

31:22

Definitely. And what the jails are

31:24

being used for is not just, you

31:26

know, for, you know, people

31:29

who should be incarcerated after

31:31

committing violent crimes, but for

31:34

those who are mentally ill. And

31:36

you mentioned the Hey, Ashbury, there's

31:39

this guy who is the sweetest person you ever

31:41

want to meet when you meet him, except when he

31:43

goes through whatever his episodes are and he

31:46

becomes increasingly violent.

31:48

And he's very unpredictable. And

31:50

the people in that community have been trying to get

31:52

him help for the longest. And I've been

31:55

able to get him into shelters, send

31:57

him through the conservatorship process. I

31:59

mean, he's still out.

32:00

He's

32:01

still, I don't know, he's a senior. He used to

32:03

be able to take care of himself, got hit in the head during an accident

32:06

when he worked for construction. And now he's

32:09

homeless and he goes back and forth. And

32:11

we should be able to

32:13

house someone like that in

32:15

a facility where he has

32:17

some freedoms

32:19

so that he can still live his life, but

32:21

also, you know, his medications

32:24

or his medical support or the things

32:26

that he needs or catered to based on

32:29

what's happening. Otherwise, you know, when

32:31

he actually assaulted a police officer,

32:34

he had to be arrested. He was in jail

32:36

for a little bit. And then when he was in jail,

32:38

his clothes, you know, somehow got lost.

32:40

I mean, just all of the different layers that

32:42

go into this one individual where

32:45

instead of the jails, you know, a

32:47

mental health facility would have been a better place.

32:49

And I just think overall, this state

32:51

and this country has to start looking at, you

32:54

know, how we support those

32:56

struggling with mental illness differently,

32:58

especially those

33:00

who may not have family or support

33:02

or resources to do anything other

33:04

than wait until a crime is committed

33:07

and then they're arrested, they're incarcerated

33:09

and they're not

33:10

in the right place. And it seems like a crime

33:12

is the only lever of intervention. And

33:14

are you feeling like even as a progressive,

33:17

coercion has to be some part

33:20

of a way

33:21

to unentrench this

33:24

kind of

33:26

difficult mental health crisis and

33:29

substance abuse crisis.

33:30

Oh, definitely. Because I will tell

33:32

you if it were me, some of the things

33:34

I've seen and experienced and the people I've

33:36

worked with over the years that I could not

33:38

get help for, if it were me, I

33:40

would want someone to force me into whatever

33:43

treatment possible. And in many

33:45

cases, there are more seniors with

33:47

dementia, with Alzheimer's, who

33:50

are out on the streets. This

33:52

gentleman who is now homeless,

33:54

who was a pillar in the community, always

33:56

wrote his by, gave out flowers to

33:58

the ladies and... and just was that kind

34:01

of person. And then, you know, started

34:03

to develop dementia, started to get

34:05

violent out of nowhere, never been

34:07

a violent guy. And as a result,

34:10

lost his housing. And

34:12

the process to get him help

34:14

and support was just so flawed

34:17

because he said, I can take care of myself. I

34:19

can take care of myself. I don't need anyone to take care

34:21

of me. And clearly he did.

34:24

And so from my perspective, there

34:26

has to be some level of force

34:28

that goes with the services that

34:31

provide an opportunity for

34:33

the state or the counties to intervene

34:35

and taking care of people who can't take care of themselves.

34:38

You're talking about communities where people are living

34:41

with very little margin of error to

34:43

begin with. And any of the stressors

34:46

that you put on that, it

34:48

breaks. The failure rate for

34:50

people living with no margin of error is

34:52

really high

34:54

because you don't have that support system

34:56

and all those other things that are put into place. You

34:58

know, people of means when

35:00

a beloved relative gets dementia,

35:03

well, there are, you know, there's no stop in

35:05

the services that have to be arranged.

35:08

And it's really complicated even in

35:10

that regard, take away family members

35:12

that can help. And what does,

35:14

what do the communities do? Have you seen,

35:17

Mayor, is there a model,

35:19

whether it's in San Francisco or it's in a

35:22

different place, a model that you think

35:24

has some efficacy in

35:26

terms of putting people in trouble

35:29

through a process that because right

35:32

now the repository are prisons.

35:34

That's sort of how we got into all this, is

35:36

the prisons are when you have 2 million people in

35:39

prison in a country, something has gone terribly,

35:42

terribly wrong. And

35:44

it seems that that's the repository for

35:47

all interventions that should be more

35:49

productive. Have you seen

35:51

a system that you thought, oh boy, that's

35:54

got a tremendous amount of potential and efficacy

35:56

in terms of getting people back to.

36:00

a place of function?

36:02

Not necessarily. Um,

36:05

I was hoping for a different answer, mayor.

36:08

I was hoping we were going somewhere else.

36:10

I think not necessarily because, you

36:12

know, people really

36:14

value their freedoms. Oh, of course.

36:17

For example, we don't want to see

36:19

someone struggling where we know they're

36:21

having a mental health breakdown.

36:24

We don't want to see that. We want them to get help

36:27

and we're wondering

36:29

why can't they get help? But

36:31

then on the same note, when we're trying

36:33

to change the policies and we start

36:35

talking about

36:36

force

36:37

to force someone into treatment, then all

36:39

of a sudden, you know, people are like, well, wait a minute,

36:42

you know, conservativeship, look at what happened with Britney

36:44

Spears. Look at what we don't want to take

36:46

away someone's

36:47

rights and right and their agency. Yeah.

36:50

And so I get that. But

36:52

at the end of the day, it's not a one

36:54

size fits all. It's a balance, but

36:56

the flexibility to make decisions

36:59

around people's lives when they're

37:01

suffering from these various conditions,

37:04

it has to be put on the table. Otherwise

37:06

we'll continue to see it and

37:09

we won't be able to do anything about

37:11

it. And I think that's the tragedy because

37:13

it could happen to you. It could happen to me at

37:16

any given time. And wouldn't we want

37:18

somebody to make the decision that's

37:20

going to really help to save our

37:22

lives or to put us in a better place? so we don't

37:25

lose all of our self-respect and our

37:27

dignity. I mean, there's an elderly

37:29

woman who walks around naked

37:31

dragging a blanket, and it

37:33

is just really hard to see

37:36

that and not think, why can't

37:38

we help? And part of it

37:40

is when you approach her, she gets really

37:42

violent and she starts swinging the blanket,

37:44

she starts swinging her arms, and it's like

37:46

the only thing we have

37:48

to do is detain her,

37:51

she goes through the process, I'm okay,

37:53

I can take care of myself and

37:56

that's it. And that is not a solution.

37:58

That is doing the same thing.

38:00

over and over expecting to get a different result,

38:02

which we will not get unless we're willing

38:04

to, you know, put in a level

38:06

of force that sometimes also makes people

38:09

uncomfortable.

38:10

And also in a city that is known

38:12

for its kind of ideological

38:15

leniency and progressive values

38:17

of, aren't we all in this together? But I think unfortunately

38:20

it doesn't take into account the

38:22

stress that struggle and poverty and drugs

38:25

put on people who are already battling certain

38:27

mental health conditions. And I want to also

38:29

talk about the crime aspect

38:31

of it because it all sort of goes in the

38:33

same bucket, which is San Francisco is the

38:35

avatar for chaotic rule.

38:38

Some of it, you

38:39

know, an identity that they wear with pride

38:42

to some extent. And some of it looked

38:44

at by others with a sneer of

38:46

can't they get it together, these progressives who

38:49

just allow people to live and let live and

38:51

look at the chaos that they've unleashed.

38:55

But when you look at the crime statistics

38:57

of San Francisco versus like in Oklahoma

38:59

City, which doesn't get any of that attention,

39:02

you're actually

39:03

kind of similar. But

39:06

is that because

39:08

it's a tourist attraction?

39:10

And so many people filter through

39:12

it. Is it because of the reputation

39:15

of it in tech? Is it because of the

39:18

inequality and the fact that there's

39:20

been this incredible real estate boom for one

39:22

group, but then this other group still suffers?

39:25

Why do you think San Francisco is so

39:29

often,

39:30

along with Chicago, the avatar for that kind

39:32

of chaos?

39:33

Well, I think there are a number of reasons. And I

39:35

think, you know, the former president, you know,

39:37

put a target on our back at one point

39:40

and used it as an example for a lot of

39:42

things that were allegedly

39:45

going wrong in the country. And

39:47

that was very unfortunate. I think, you

39:50

know, now with social media

39:52

and technology, You have videos

39:55

that circulate and the videos

39:57

are moment in time. And I

39:59

think people- people see those videos and think,

40:01

oh my goodness, San Francisco is such a scary

40:04

place.

40:04

I was there in the eighties. It was,

40:07

I mean, talk about chaos, like the tenderloins,

40:09

the tenderloin. Like I was in the eighties. It

40:12

was wild. In the same way that New York

40:14

was wild in the eighties.

40:15

Yes, but you could still walk

40:17

down the streets of San Francisco. I mean, you could

40:19

be in certain neighborhoods and certain parks

40:22

and you wouldn't even believe you're in San

40:24

Francisco in a major city. I mean, it's a beautiful

40:26

city, it's an incredible city. but

40:29

because of our liberal values, because

40:31

of some of the things that we do here, oftentimes

40:34

it's like, see, see, look at what San Francisco is

40:36

doing and look at this video and look

40:38

at what's happening as a result. And

40:41

it's unfortunate, but at the end of the day, it's

40:43

still a great city. We are in

40:45

the state of California, the fourth largest

40:48

economy in the world now, bypassing

40:50

Germany. And that has everything to do

40:52

with many of the startups and the

40:55

major businesses like Salesforce and

40:57

others. They

40:59

are headquartered here in

41:01

San Francisco and this is where people wanna be

41:04

in San Francisco, the Bay Area,

41:06

wealth is of course being generated, but also

41:09

we have a 2% unemployment rate. So

41:12

we have job opportunities, we have opportunities

41:14

for people to do well, to thrive and

41:18

we have a beautiful city.

41:19

Doesn't that put almost more pressure on you to crack

41:21

down then? When you have these kinds of

41:24

wealth drivers like these tech companies and all

41:26

that And then you

41:28

also have this really entrenched

41:31

issues of poverty and mental

41:33

health and those other things.

41:35

And isn't generally the

41:37

easiest answer to that is more

41:39

cops. Generally, politically,

41:42

I would imagine that's the first

41:44

tool that people go to

41:47

because it's the most immediate. It's the

41:49

one that you can say.

41:51

But again, talking about efficacy, how

41:53

effective are more cops? You know, I've read

41:55

certain statistics that, you know, for

41:58

every, I don't know what it is.

42:00

17 officers that

42:02

cost about $1.5 million for the taxpayers,

42:06

one life maybe can be

42:08

reduced in terms of the homicides, which, you

42:11

know, is a great thing. But

42:13

again, it's about, are we ever really

42:15

dealing with the core issues or are we

42:18

just trying to throw as many barriers

42:21

and obstacles around these problem

42:24

areas so that the other

42:26

folks don't have to deal with it?

42:28

Well, to be clear for me, I'm

42:31

thinking about the people who live here. And

42:33

I'm also thinking about the people who

42:36

live in the kinds of conditions that I grew

42:38

up in. And that's one

42:41

of the most important parts to me. The other part

42:43

is, as a mayor, I wanna

42:45

keep all people who live, who work,

42:47

and

42:48

who visit our city safe,

42:50

period.

42:51

I want that to happen for everyone. I want people

42:53

to have great experiences and experience

42:56

the city in ways that put

42:58

a smile on their face and make them happy to be

43:00

a part of such an amazing city. And

43:03

that does take work. It does take police officers.

43:05

Does it worry you that when

43:07

you add more police officers, the communities

43:10

that you actually grew up in

43:12

are the ones that are going to be hurt

43:15

the most

43:16

by that influx? No,

43:18

it does not. I mean, the Tenderloin already has the

43:20

most cops of any, but when you look

43:22

at tough on crime

43:24

policies, generally

43:27

that's going to disproportionately affect

43:30

black communities and

43:32

poor communities. Well,

43:33

what's interesting is, you know, in San

43:36

Francisco, I mean, we have a national

43:38

crisis around law enforcement and the inability

43:40

to recruit. San Francisco is

43:43

seeing record lows

43:43

in terms of the number of

43:45

officers who we have, as well as

43:47

our ability to recruit. So we're

43:50

facing a national crisis in terms of law enforcement.

43:52

I think what's different here is, you know, You

43:54

have these same communities

43:57

wanting police officers. You have

43:59

neighborhood.

44:00

that traditionally have had,

44:02

you know, negative encounters with the officers

44:04

saying, you know, I want police,

44:06

including those who are part of immigrant

44:08

communities, those are part of African-American

44:11

communities. You know, when you look at some of

44:13

the violence that's happening in our city, they

44:15

are saying, you know, why do we not have

44:17

more police officers in our community? Of course,

44:19

we don't want police officers to

44:22

react negatively to those

44:24

who live in the community, who are law buying

44:26

citizens, who are just trying to, you

44:29

know, make a living and take care of their families.

44:32

We want them to go after the people who are the most problematic.

44:35

And I think what you hear,

44:37

what I hear personally from people who I grew

44:39

up with even, as I said, who have

44:41

had encounters with the law is we need

44:44

cops, we need more support, we want them

44:46

in our communities. But the good news

44:48

in San Francisco is that it's not just

44:50

about police officers, it's about

44:52

alternatives to police. It's about

44:54

having a street crisis response team

44:56

which we started in our city a couple

44:59

of years ago to respond to 911

45:02

calls for people who are suffering from mental illness

45:04

or noise complaints

45:06

or some calls that could be diverted

45:09

to groups of people

45:11

that are good at de-escalation

45:14

or good at dealing with challenges that don't involve

45:17

violence. And so, you

45:19

know, having an alternative to police so the police

45:21

can focus on the more serious and violent

45:24

crime has really worked out since

45:26

we founded them at the end of 2021, they've

45:28

responded to over 15,000 calls in

45:30

San Francisco, which

45:33

takes that off the plate of police officers.

45:35

We have community ambassadors, retired police

45:37

officers in our various neighborhoods, dealing

45:40

and deescalating situations.

45:42

Deescalation is, I think that's

45:44

a great way of viewing,

45:47

so many of these problems. And have you seen, are

45:50

there metrics that you're looking at that says, hey,

45:52

some of these interventions are

45:55

being successful at deescalating

45:58

some of the fentanyl crisis.

46:00

some of the homelessness crisis,

46:02

some of the poverty crisis, some of the mental health crisis.

46:04

Have you seen anything that makes you feel

46:06

like,

46:08

wow, we're starting to get our arms

46:10

around some of these entrenched

46:12

issues?

46:13

Well, I will say Urban Alchemy

46:16

is a program of ambassadors and

46:18

they are in the Tenderloin. They all over the Tenderloin.

46:20

These are people who used to be addicted

46:22

to drugs, who were incarcerated, who

46:25

may have grown up in San Francisco. And

46:28

now they are out there talking

46:30

to people and trying to get them into help

46:32

or to treatment. And oftentimes,

46:34

for example, somebody who's suffering from addiction,

46:37

they may have open wounds or sores. An

46:40

urban alchemy ambassador will say, ''Hey man,

46:42

let me walk you over to

46:43

the clinic. Let me get you bandaged up.

46:46

You don't wanna walk around like that and get an affection

46:49

or get hurt.'' So they're communicating

46:51

to people differently. And as

46:53

a result, sometimes people are accepting

46:56

help because they

46:58

say, I used to be on the streets or I used to

47:00

be in your situation and this program

47:02

helped me. And so a lot

47:04

of it is that peer-on-peer

47:06

support that helps to lead

47:09

to something better for someone. And I

47:11

think having a way to get

47:13

someone into a job immediately or get

47:15

someone into treatment immediately, that

47:18

is a game changer. The treatment on demand

47:20

part is significant because at the

47:22

moment someone may feel like, yes,

47:24

I could use some help, but they may not even go

47:27

to the help. Well, I'll wait with you and I'll

47:29

call the street medicine team. Hold on, let me give

47:31

them a call. So that approach

47:33

is a meet people where they

47:35

are type of approach,

47:36

which I think is having a significant

47:39

impact with the data that we're seeing on

47:41

getting people into treatment or getting them

47:44

to support.

47:44

Do you think that's slowing that kind of revolving

47:47

door? The some of the people

47:49

that we had spoken with had been incarcerated

47:51

said, boy, that, that blot on your

47:54

record

47:55

just puts you so under a stone

47:57

that's so heavy to lift to try and

47:59

get. yourself

48:00

back on your feet because

48:02

it puts an albatross around your neck for

48:04

everything, for getting a job, for getting an apartment,

48:06

for being able to

48:10

have a family. Like there's so many different avenues

48:12

that incarceration

48:14

then

48:15

weighs you down with

48:17

once you get out. And it makes it so

48:19

much more likely that you end up in this sort

48:22

of revolving door of incarceration

48:25

and drug use and homelessness and mental illness.

48:27

And it's vicious.

48:28

And I think it's a little different in San Francisco

48:31

because we've done a lot of reforms

48:33

to our criminal justice system. We ban the box,

48:35

so we're able to, you know,

48:37

not just

48:38

what's- That's the box where you have to check that box that

48:40

says- Yeah, and say that, you know, that

48:42

you've had a criminal record of some

48:45

nature. And so we've been able to, people

48:47

who are formerly incarcerated have been able to

48:49

be hired with the city and county of San Francisco,

48:53

not only to clean the streets, but to drive Muni.

48:55

And we've helped pay for people to

48:58

go through the process of training to

49:00

drive buses, getting their class A license. We've

49:02

gotten rid of a lot of fines and fees so that

49:04

money is not a barrier to people who

49:08

once they get out and they wanna get their driver's

49:10

license or they wanna get back on track

49:12

in some way, we've tried to get

49:14

rid of a lot of the barriers that make

49:16

it difficult for someone once they serve

49:19

their debt to society and they want to do

49:21

something different with their lives. We

49:23

as a city try to make it easier with housing,

49:26

with opportunities, with trying to

49:28

get people to turn their lives around. We have some

49:30

wonderful programs that

49:32

have really created some great results. I

49:34

see people I grew up with all the time and

49:38

I am so proud of them and so happy

49:40

to see them. And they become

49:42

very active in the community differently.

49:44

And I think we need to approach that

49:47

on a statewide and national level

49:49

to try and get people back on track,

49:51

back in the right type of

49:53

situation. and it starts with money.

49:55

That,

49:58

that, Mayor, that should be the title of your-

50:00

out of irony because that is, you're dead

50:02

on right about that for everything. It starts

50:04

with money. If we appropriate

50:07

the types of funding we need

50:09

to get a handle on that and rebuild the infrastructure

50:11

in these cities, boy, it would make it so

50:14

much easier than having to attack

50:16

the problem

50:17

once a person is wandering the streets naked

50:20

in a crisis. Yes. If

50:22

we could attack things before they become a

50:24

crisis. Boy, that'd be different.

50:27

Yeah, so like, for example, if someone gets

50:29

out of jail, where are they gonna get some money? They

50:31

get a little bit of money, maybe.

50:33

They get 200 bucks. You get out of jail,

50:35

you get 200 bucks, that's it.

50:36

And then where do they go

50:38

and what do they do? And that's why

50:41

we are focusing on a lot of universal basic

50:43

income programs. I remember the headline

50:46

was, San Francisco will pay

50:48

you to commit crimes and pay criminals.

50:50

And it's not about that. It's about trying

50:53

to get this person into support,

50:55

giving them some basic universal

50:58

income. They have to show up with their

51:00

counselor, work with us to get them

51:02

into an employment

51:03

opportunity. Has that been effective? Has that

51:05

shown some results?

51:06

It's shown some. It's been

51:08

very challenging because again, we're talking about

51:10

in some cases, people who struggle with addiction.

51:13

So it's some people we've been

51:15

able to transition and to work

51:18

in different programs, including Urban Alchemy

51:21

and some of our other programs that help

51:23

formerly incarcerated people. but it's

51:26

tough when people have issues

51:28

with addiction.

51:28

You know, I'm wondering, Mary,

51:31

I look at the situation in the country with

51:33

the elderly and there's sort of this three tiered system

51:35

of kind of over 55 housing, and

51:38

then you go into kind of like assisted

51:40

living and then you go into where you need more medical

51:42

care. I wonder if a tiered system

51:45

may be the kind of approach

51:47

that we would have to take through prisons

51:51

and interventionist systems, where you're kind of going

51:53

from a stronger,

51:56

hopefully not as coercive, but slightly

51:58

more coercive and work.

52:00

working your way through this tiered system and

52:02

is, I know it sounds like it's such

52:04

a strange concept,

52:06

but

52:07

is assisted living

52:08

kind of the answer to

52:12

helping to find some semblance

52:15

of order that we can bring

52:17

people who are struggling through

52:20

a process of slowly getting

52:22

them from, you know,

52:23

down and out and flat on their back to,

52:26

you know,

52:28

ambulatory and maybe that's

52:30

a five tiered system. And is that something that's

52:32

been talked about?

52:34

Well, I would say that some of the programs

52:36

we have here for substance use disorder

52:38

are tiered. We have a really

52:41

wonderful abstinence based program which

52:43

didn't exist before. And it includes,

52:45

we have two buildings and food

52:47

and housing and wraparound support services,

52:50

but there's also like Delancey street, which

52:52

is a lot more intensive in

52:55

terms of detox and support. It's

52:57

like, look, you go to jail or you go to Delancey

52:59

Street especially if you have an addiction, but

53:02

you can't leave that facility until you're

53:04

at a certain point. So

53:07

we have different layers of systems around

53:09

treatment for support. And

53:12

it's not always hard to get a bed.

53:15

It's just what happens after, I

53:17

think that the treatment is one thing and going through

53:19

that process and then feeling whole and

53:21

feeling supported and feeling good

53:24

again. The biggest challenge that we

53:26

have had and what we're working on is

53:28

the missing transition between treatment

53:31

and long-term stability as it

53:33

relates to housing. And in

53:35

San Francisco, housing

53:37

is very expensive. It's expensive

53:39

to build, expensive

53:41

to maintain, and

53:44

that is the housing component.

53:46

That's the missing link.

53:48

It's a big part. We've had to house

53:50

people outside of San Francisco

53:53

in order to get people in stable

53:56

housing, but oftentimes people want

53:58

to be in the city.

53:59

See, here's the...

54:00

You know, you live in a city that is known

54:02

for its disruptors, its tech disruptors,

54:04

its other things. There has to be some measure

54:07

of housing disruption that would

54:10

occur there. I would imagine, you know, you got Musk, you

54:12

got all these titans up there

54:14

who

54:14

love nothing more than sort of reimagining

54:17

certain things.

54:17

Elon is living in his office.

54:20

Oh, right. He's in Texas town, Musk

54:23

town. He's living in his office. He's not taking

54:25

up any

54:25

housing right now. But I mean, in terms of

54:27

like, when you think of the hipsters and you think of this movement

54:29

towards like tiny houses. Well,

54:32

how is it that maybe reimagining this

54:34

idea of individual tiny

54:37

houses in certain areas, but more assisted

54:39

living so that it has the services? I

54:41

mean, it seems like a challenge that

54:44

the business community there would

54:47

relish

54:48

because so much of their success has come

54:51

at the

54:52

unfortunately detriment

54:55

of the other communities that live

54:57

there?

54:58

Well, I will say we are lucky that

55:01

we do have the wraparound supportive

55:04

services in terms of our housing. But

55:06

again, those are a lot more

55:09

difficult to get into and they cost us a

55:11

lot of money to run.

55:12

Right. No, San Francisco

55:14

has a terrible housing. Houston's done

55:17

a great job of that, by the way. Is

55:19

there a mayor text chain? Do you

55:21

guys have a text chain? Yeah. Yeah,

55:23

yeah,

55:23

yeah. We're cutting mayor tax chains

55:25

or we reached out to one another. I

55:28

am talking to mayors all over the country constantly

55:31

about different things when they happen.

55:33

Houston's done a pretty great job at, you know, they

55:35

say they've cut their housing

55:38

issue by 50%, 60%.

55:40

When they have more room, we're like, you

55:42

know, 49 square miles. We're

55:45

like a small, very densely populated

55:47

city. Do

55:48

what they do and let's start putting sit

55:50

down. Let's start building up in the bay. I

55:52

agree. Come on, man. We got this.

55:55

Well, here's the good news. Okay. Good.

55:57

I need some good news, Mary, because it sounds overwhelming.

56:00

I am so happy about this because this is going to

56:02

make my job a lot easier. The state

56:04

of California has required that

56:06

the county of San Francisco build at

56:09

least 82,000 units in

56:11

the next eight years, which

56:14

means, you know, we had to adopt, it's

56:17

called the housing element. We had to adopt it.

56:19

It could affect our

56:22

funding for affordable housing. It can

56:24

affect a lot of things financially for the city. So

56:27

we are going to have to make some dramatic

56:29

changes to our housing policies

56:32

that will allow us to build faster. We

56:34

have over 50,000 units

56:36

that have already been approved, some even

56:38

before I was on the board

56:39

of supervisors. And

56:42

they have not even started construction.

56:45

Why have they not started construction? Well, it's

56:47

not just because of the cost. It's our policies.

56:50

And really,

56:51

when people try and prevent

56:53

sometimes some of the units from even being

56:55

built, when and you have neighborhoods who are

56:58

saying, we don't want this in our city.

56:59

Not in my backyard. Yeah, a lot

57:01

of the CEQA requirements and other things.

57:04

So we are working aggressively

57:06

on getting rid of a lot of those barriers to

57:09

cut down the time that it takes

57:11

to begin construction on a lot of these housing

57:13

projects, which is gonna be a game changer

57:15

for housing. Can you imagine over 50,000

57:18

units that have been entitled?

57:21

And if those 50,000 units even get built in

57:24

the next five to eight

57:26

years, what that could mean for housing in

57:28

San Francisco. It could be a game

57:29

changer. And the barrier to get into those, by the way, these aren't

57:32

condos for CEOs. These are affordable

57:36

units, I would assume.

57:37

Well, there's a percentage that's affordable,

57:39

and some of them are gonna be market rate, but also

57:42

some of them will help with the missing middle

57:44

as well. The Giants, our

57:47

sports team, they're building in

57:49

Mission Bay as we speak. Those units are being

57:51

built, and 40% of those units

57:53

will be on the affordable spectrum

57:56

for not just the low income, but also

57:58

the middle income residents of San Francisco.

58:00

It's gonna be a game changer. Mayor, before

58:02

we go, if I may ask you just one more

58:04

question, slightly more personal.

58:07

What got you through that?

58:09

How did you, it's such an,

58:11

you know, it'd be wonderful to

58:13

live in a world where you didn't have to be a superstar

58:16

to escape the kind of upbringings

58:19

in this country that are so difficult,

58:20

but what made

58:23

you so resilient?

58:24

How did you get through?

58:26

Well, I think it had a lot to do with

58:29

having a praying grandmother. Uh,

58:32

my grand- That's a certain kind of grandmother.

58:34

Yeah. My, my grandmother, she was

58:36

really hardcore. She, you know,

58:39

really drilled into me a sense

58:41

of, you know, that, you know, don't

58:43

let my circumstances, the fact that we live

58:45

in the projects, you know, determine

58:48

my outcome in life. And she

58:50

was, she just, she had my back. She

58:53

was very hardcore, but she also took care of the community.

58:57

And I just think by the grace

58:59

of God that I'm here and I feel

59:02

so honored and blessed.

59:04

I know it just wasn't me, even

59:07

drug dealers in the neighborhood would, my

59:09

family members included, they're like, here,

59:12

they give me money and say, go to school and do

59:14

better than us. There were just, it was a community.

59:17

It was like-

59:17

They saw something in you?

59:18

It was a community. Yeah, it was

59:20

so many people. And this is why I also

59:23

fight for them because the folks

59:25

I grew up with, they had my back and they still

59:28

have my back. My grandmother,

59:30

she's not with us anymore, but she was very

59:33

adamant, you gotta get your education. She was very

59:35

proud as someone who came from Texas,

59:38

Jim Crow South and dealt

59:40

with discrimination that she was proud

59:42

that she got her high school diploma

59:44

and she pushed to make sure that

59:46

I was educated. And I've always had

59:48

so many wonderful people around

59:51

me. He supported me through college, who lifted

59:53

me up, who gave me an opportunity, who

59:55

hired me when no one else would. And

59:58

I just, you know, I feel honored. I

1:00:00

feel blessed and

1:00:02

to

1:00:02

be here. Even I wonder, do you ever think about,

1:00:05

because there's so many, I imagine obstacles

1:00:07

and minefields along the way,

1:00:11

what it was that

1:00:13

other family members succumbed

1:00:16

to those obstacles in a way that you

1:00:19

didn't, even though both of you had the same

1:00:21

praying grandmother. What do

1:00:23

you think it was?

1:00:25

It's hard for me to pinpoint it because

1:00:27

maybe, My grandmother,

1:00:30

with my brothers, she wasn't as hard

1:00:32

on them as she was on me, baby.

1:00:34

I don't know. She made up their

1:00:36

bed. She didn't pay as hard on them, okay. Yeah, like

1:00:38

I had to wash the dishes, make up my bed,

1:00:41

do

1:00:41

all the chores, run her errands, do

1:00:43

pay the rent. You were saved by sexism,

1:00:46

Mayor. Yes. Sexism saved your life.

1:00:48

I think so, but it's hard

1:00:51

to say what it was. I

1:00:55

still look back at it, I'm Mayor

1:00:58

and I still don't believe it sometimes because

1:01:00

of what I've been through and what my family

1:01:02

still is experiencing. And I don't

1:01:05

know what it was, but I will say

1:01:07

that there've been a lot of people in

1:01:09

my life that

1:01:11

just really helped me, supported

1:01:13

me, pushed me. Every time I came home,

1:01:16

Sharon at Wells Fargo Bank gave me a job as a

1:01:18

teller because she liked my grandmother. And

1:01:21

well, I'd have to take my grandmother to the

1:01:23

bank to cash her a check every month. And she

1:01:25

liked my grandmother. She liked how I treated my grandmother.

1:01:28

And so she would always have a job for me when I would

1:01:30

come home. So there were just different

1:01:32

people like that who gave me opportunities

1:01:35

and really supported me. And I was fortunate.

1:01:37

And I want other people to have this too, because

1:01:40

I

1:01:41

couldn't imagine where I would be if

1:01:44

it weren't for a lot of different things, a lot

1:01:46

of different people, and especially prayers

1:01:49

and support from all these

1:01:51

wonderful people in the community who just

1:01:54

saw something and said, You know what?

1:01:58

We're gonna keep her out of this mess. You're not gonna...

1:02:00

We're gonna let her sell drugs on this

1:02:02

corner.

1:02:02

We're

1:02:04

not gonna let the wrong dude, you

1:02:06

know, put her in a bad situation.

1:02:09

Like there were people, people in

1:02:11

the community would not let stuff happen

1:02:13

to me too. So even though I

1:02:16

wanted to go out there and do some of those things,

1:02:19

they cut that out. And that

1:02:22

was a blessing. So I feel really

1:02:24

honored. And I also feel like I owe them

1:02:26

a debt of gratitude and support

1:02:28

and it's why I work so hard in this city to

1:02:31

turn people's lives around.

1:02:32

The job you gotta do out there, I

1:02:35

give you a ton of credit, it is not easy. Ooh,

1:02:37

it's not easy, but I'll tell you, you know what's rewarding

1:02:39

about this job? I ran into this girl

1:02:41

I grew up with. I used to play dolls with

1:02:44

her.

1:02:44

And we used to run around in the project, we played

1:02:47

checkers and chess at the park and everything. Right,

1:02:50

right. She, you know,

1:02:52

I hadn't seen her in years and

1:02:54

I didn't know what happened to her, but

1:02:56

she got caught up with a lot of drugs and stuff.

1:02:59

And I just opened a 256 unit building for

1:03:03

people who are formerly homeless. And

1:03:05

she was one of the people there. And the reason

1:03:07

why I found her is because her daughter

1:03:09

walked up to me and was like, you know my mom.

1:03:12

Oh, wow. You know, and then we start talking.

1:03:14

And she was like, she live here now. Oh

1:03:17

my God. And I had to leave, but I

1:03:19

had to see her before I left. Oh, that's wonderful.

1:03:21

And to see her, and she was clean, she

1:03:23

was sober, She lives

1:03:26

there. She was still the same

1:03:28

person. She still got the pretty skin, the pretty

1:03:30

face. And it's just like-

1:03:32

That's

1:03:32

wonderful. This is, when we're

1:03:34

able to do this, it's

1:03:37

nothing like, and her daughter is an adult, so

1:03:39

it made me feel really old.

1:03:42

Those are, you must've said like, I think

1:03:44

your mom was my teacher. I don't think I was a friend. Yeah,

1:03:46

I wish, but we were same age. I was

1:03:49

like, oh my God, I got, you know, like

1:03:51

thinking to it. And even

1:03:53

my uncle Donna, he's not my biological uncle,

1:03:56

but he lives there too and is

1:03:58

clean and sober.

1:04:00

Like most of the people who live there now

1:04:02

are people that I know. They

1:04:04

are people that I know. That's

1:04:07

and even if you don't know them personally, you

1:04:09

know their struggle. You know, yes. It's

1:04:13

so important to have someone in a position

1:04:15

of power who feels them. Who

1:04:18

who just

1:04:19

knows that boy,

1:04:21

there's just like I was saying, so many minefields

1:04:24

to get. Yeah. It just would be nice if

1:04:27

in those tough areas if mediocrity

1:04:30

did as well as it does in the areas with less

1:04:32

challenges like if you didn't have

1:04:34

to be so good

1:04:37

and smart and dedicated and

1:04:39

resilient just to get through

1:04:41

Definitely and and the place like san francisco

1:04:43

is expensive as it is it is But

1:04:46

you know, this is also a place of opportunity.

1:04:49

San francisco is a compassionate very generous

1:04:51

city, too And we do

1:04:53

so much for so many people. Like, you'll

1:04:56

talk to some people who are formally addicted to drugs, including

1:04:59

one of the guys who I appointed to the board of supervisors.

1:05:02

You know, he's now,

1:05:04

I think, about two years sober. And

1:05:07

he had, you know, a real problem

1:05:09

with addiction, but when he was ready for help, it

1:05:12

was

1:05:13

really easy for him to get help. And I

1:05:15

find that to be the case with those who

1:05:17

were formally, you know, addicted

1:05:19

to drugs that when they want, when they're ready,

1:05:22

Because we both know that if you're not

1:05:24

ready, you're not gonna do it

1:05:25

But the difference is

1:05:27

resources because you know in my world Boy,

1:05:30

I don't think we don't know a ton of people who are

1:05:33

Oh, yeah drugs or addicted to gambling all those things

1:05:35

But you know when you've got

1:05:37

resources you don't end up in

1:05:39

jail You don't end up on the street you

1:05:42

end up,

1:05:42

you know Your friends get together

1:05:45

and they throw you to Malibu for a couple of weeks and

1:05:47

you know, it's all that other shit So, you

1:05:49

know, when you have no margin

1:05:52

of error, that's what it needs to be in this country is

1:05:54

we need to get people just a margin

1:05:56

of error.

1:05:57

Just let people have a, give them

1:05:59

a. a little bit more grace, and

1:06:01

a little bit more of a margin of error. Yes,

1:06:05

and I think

1:06:05

we do that here to a certain extent,

1:06:09

but I think, again, the biggest challenge goes

1:06:11

back to, you know, the cost of living

1:06:13

and other things that we're not doing,

1:06:15

and there's really a balance. So, you

1:06:18

know, I wanna change the city.

1:06:21

I know we have impacted people's lives in

1:06:23

a positive way, and I'm

1:06:25

never gonna give up. You know, it's not gonna matter

1:06:27

whether I'm mayor or not. This is the work that

1:06:29

I'm meant to do. And it's

1:06:32

a part of who I am. And so the ability

1:06:35

to talk about it is always

1:06:37

a joy because some

1:06:39

of these examples of some of these good stories

1:06:42

will, it'll make you cry.

1:06:44

You have, I'm sure, a

1:06:46

hundred other aspects of your job that

1:06:48

are equally complex and so many other

1:06:50

things. And I thank you so much for taking

1:06:53

the time

1:06:54

to even talk with us, but it's such a fascinating

1:06:57

story. And I think

1:06:58

your understanding of that city,

1:07:00

you having been there for so long, your family having been there

1:07:02

for, you having seen all

1:07:05

different aspects of it must be

1:07:07

a great advantage in

1:07:09

trying to

1:07:10

find a way through it.

1:07:12

You know, I'll tell you, John, the reason why

1:07:14

I am very unapologetic

1:07:17

about being aggressive and making these decisions

1:07:20

has everything to do with

1:07:22

my upbringing and how I've lived

1:07:25

in poverty. you know, more than half

1:07:27

my life in this city, in poverty,

1:07:29

in some of the worst circumstances, the

1:07:31

tragedy, the loss, the frustration, the hopelessness,

1:07:34

that doesn't just go away

1:07:36

because you want it to go away. It's

1:07:39

a part of who I am. So when making decisions,

1:07:42

it always comes from a place of understanding

1:07:45

and a desire to see things get better. And

1:07:48

I'm never gonna shy away from that. I'm gonna do

1:07:50

what I need to do to make the hard decisions. I

1:07:52

want our city to get better. I wanna improve public

1:07:54

safety. It's not just about getting elected

1:07:57

or reelected. It's about the

1:07:59

fact that my

1:08:00

whole life has always been dedicated to

1:08:02

transforming, you know, communities

1:08:04

and lives for the better. And that is not going to

1:08:06

change whether I'm mayor or not. So

1:08:08

I'm looking forward to seeing some transformative

1:08:11

things and hopefully you'll come visit us soon

1:08:13

and

1:08:13

see for yourself. I love going around there,

1:08:15

walking around a little Tai Chi in the park, get

1:08:18

myself a little focaccia. Come on, I

1:08:20

love that place. Yes, yes. Wow,

1:08:22

Mayor Breed, thank you so much for joining us. Mayor London Breed

1:08:25

of San Francisco doing the hard

1:08:27

work of getting that place ready for

1:08:29

my next visit. Yes. Let's

1:08:31

get some of them streets polished. I'll get out there.

1:08:33

Yeah, I wanna see you at the punchline. Done.

1:08:37

Yes. I've been there many times. It's a wonderful, wonderful

1:08:40

place. Great, yes. Cobs and

1:08:42

all kinds of other clubs out there. It's a wonderful

1:08:44

city for comedy, by the way. And a lot

1:08:46

of other things. But thank you so much, Mary, for joining

1:08:49

us. Really appreciate it. Thank

1:08:50

you, John. Appreciate it. I'm

1:08:55

gonna tell you guys something. I like

1:08:58

her. Yeah, I like her too. She's

1:09:01

so practical.

1:09:02

We were talking about that, Chris and I, when we were listening

1:09:04

to the conversation. It's so hard for people

1:09:06

to give real answers and it's so hard for a

1:09:08

mayor to say, this is hard. Not

1:09:10

for a mayor to say, I can fix this. Not for a mayor to

1:09:12

say, I got the solution. Let me tell you what I would do. And

1:09:15

no, actually I was gonna say no hate

1:09:17

to Eric Adams, but Eric Adams would not have answered

1:09:19

those questions anything like London

1:09:22

Breed, I'm sorry. Well, you always, whenever

1:09:24

you talk to politicians At a certain

1:09:26

point, you always feel like they're,

1:09:28

you know, on Dance Dance Revolution. You're

1:09:31

watching them and you go,

1:09:32

you know,

1:09:33

step, repeat. It feels choreographed

1:09:36

in a way that is not authentic

1:09:38

or real. Her desire,

1:09:41

effective or otherwise,

1:09:43

is clearly in the place of, I

1:09:45

grew up here.

1:09:46

I grew up in a really difficult

1:09:48

circumstance, and I would like to find

1:09:50

a way to make it less difficult

1:09:53

for those who come behind me. And the moment

1:09:55

she really warned me is I think I said, you

1:09:57

know, do you know anything that's had some real

1:10:00

and she goes, unfortunately,

1:10:02

no. But. We also suffer that too. We

1:10:04

suffer that, yeah, yeah. There was

1:10:06

no like, oh, the metric, there

1:10:09

was, I never felt like I was talking

1:10:11

to a politician. I felt like I was talking

1:10:13

to someone who cared deeply about fixing something

1:10:16

that has no simple solution. And

1:10:18

even her saying, and guess what, John, a

1:10:21

lot of this starts with money.

1:10:22

And you were like, yeah. So many people are scared to say,

1:10:24

they go, oh, you have to change the hearts

1:10:27

and minds of people. People, all people

1:10:29

need, it's like, she was also describing

1:10:31

community in a way that so many

1:10:34

people don't understand how to articulate.

1:10:36

When she talked about her upbringing, and how

1:10:38

do you apply those community safeguards,

1:10:41

but apply them through the city? She

1:10:43

had people that say, hey, you

1:10:45

probably shouldn't be out here. There was never an inflection

1:10:48

point where they had to course correct, because

1:10:50

you didn't have to call the police, because the

1:10:53

stuff that would have happened down the road never

1:10:55

happened.

1:10:57

It struck me when she said the thing of

1:10:59

like, don't touch it, once you touch

1:11:01

it, you own it. And a politician

1:11:04

wouldn't touch it or would at least try

1:11:06

and get some plausible deniability on

1:11:08

it.

1:11:08

She not getting any of that. We've interviewed some other people.

1:11:11

Are we allowed to say? Hell yeah. Okay,

1:11:13

Governor Newsom, handsome fella, but

1:11:15

like you could watch him doing the dance. I mean, you

1:11:18

watched it. Like really

1:11:20

handsome fella. So handsome that. Yeah, six

1:11:23

foot four, six foot three. So

1:11:26

that isn't that people remarked upon it I

1:11:28

don't even. during the filming. Can I tell

1:11:30

you something? Here's what was frightening to

1:11:32

me is after the interview, I was

1:11:34

really hoping to get the rose. That's...

1:11:38

In

1:11:40

the middle of it, when I was pushing

1:11:43

back on things, I was like, I'm not gonna, he's gonna

1:11:45

send me home. He's gonna have to, and then afterwards

1:11:47

I was like, he's gonna walk me out to the van and

1:11:49

he's gonna put me in the van. And then I had to think about

1:11:52

like, what am I gonna say in my confessional?

1:11:54

How am I gonna respond to this? Oh

1:11:56

my God, John, I think your limo entrance was very

1:11:59

funny though. otal

1:12:00

Yeah, you had a good one. You know, that's my, I'm a comedian,

1:12:02

of course. I'm a comedian. You

1:12:04

have to make a first impression. For all the, you know, and

1:12:06

I don't want to impugn whatever sincerity he

1:12:08

has, but yeah, it's a style that

1:12:11

is explicitly

1:12:13

political.

1:12:15

And it's different, like sometimes

1:12:17

you're like, oh, he's thought about how to answer this

1:12:19

question before, not, oh, what are you

1:12:22

doing? He's giving a rhetorical

1:12:24

response to kind of evade.

1:12:25

Like a Moog synthesizer. You

1:12:28

program in different, you know.

1:12:30

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. This one is a fart sound. Can

1:12:34

I tell you what was different? The

1:12:37

thing that really hit me

1:12:40

with Mayor Breed,

1:12:42

when

1:12:43

people talk about the

1:12:45

conditions in a city and it's so, you know, these

1:12:48

fucking people are taking a shit on the sidewalk

1:12:51

while

1:12:51

I'm trying to have a latte

1:12:53

sitting on it.

1:12:55

What she was saying is, no, that's someone's

1:12:57

aunt.

1:13:00

And she

1:13:02

was this beautiful person

1:13:04

in the community and gave flowers and now

1:13:06

she has dementia. And yeah, she

1:13:08

has episodes and she comes on the street and

1:13:11

it brought a humanity

1:13:14

to the

1:13:15

people that are generally just considered

1:13:18

extras in your movie about

1:13:21

how inconvenienced you are

1:13:23

when you're at a cafe. And that,

1:13:26

boy, did that hit me hard.

1:13:28

Her humanity overall, like even

1:13:30

when she was talking about addiction, she's like, you know, people are

1:13:32

gonna be addicted to stuff. We have to figure out

1:13:34

what to do.

1:13:34

Yeah, there's no sugarcoating. And

1:13:36

that's so absent from everything.

1:13:39

Yeah, that we are, humans

1:13:41

are imperfect and we have an imperfect

1:13:43

way of going through the world and

1:13:46

that's gonna kick up some issues and that's something

1:13:48

we have to deal with

1:13:50

on a level as a society. And

1:13:52

even, John, you and her both brought up the fact

1:13:54

that people who live in impoverished

1:13:57

areas also have opinions.

1:14:00

about why things aren't going

1:14:02

the way they want and why things

1:14:05

are messed up. So it's not just

1:14:07

very wealthy people saying, oh, I can't even go to this part

1:14:10

of town that I want to because it's so messed up. It's people

1:14:12

that have to live in those conditions 24 seven

1:14:14

that say, I would love it if you could get

1:14:16

this person some help. And

1:14:19

talk about and think about quality of life.

1:14:21

Whenever you hear from those cities, the complaints

1:14:24

are I'm

1:14:25

doing well and this is

1:14:28

diminishing my quality of life. This is ruining

1:14:30

my Instagram picture. My quality

1:14:33

of life sucks because I live in the midst

1:14:35

of this and I can't escape it. I don't

1:14:37

have the means, I don't have the education,

1:14:40

I can't get out, but I still

1:14:42

want my life to have quality.

1:14:45

Right. As a baseline.

1:14:48

Everybody wants to enjoy a coffee. Well,

1:14:50

cause Jon, for those people in those

1:14:52

impoverished areas, it's not a thought exercise.

1:14:55

Right. That's such a... Hypothetical,

1:14:57

yes. Mm-hmm.

1:14:59

That's a debt on right,

1:15:01

and it's so crazy that

1:15:03

it becomes so entrenched. Right.

1:15:06

And in the same way that sort of wealth has an

1:15:08

incumbency, I think poverty has

1:15:10

an incumbency as well. Mm-hmm, absolutely.

1:15:13

And you have to find a way to overcome that

1:15:16

advantage

1:15:17

that poverty has over people, because

1:15:19

it really does. You describe it as like gravity

1:15:22

sometimes, John. Right. how

1:15:24

many people had to lift her up

1:15:27

to get her out of that morass?

1:15:31

I mean, not that she didn't have to do the work herself,

1:15:33

but how many people at how many

1:15:35

inflection points had to lift

1:15:38

her up

1:15:39

to get her out?

1:15:40

But that's what community is. That's what community-based

1:15:44

governance can look like

1:15:46

when applied correctly, but it takes funding,

1:15:49

it takes time, and it also takes black

1:15:51

people and brown people being able to say, no,

1:15:53

this is my opinion on this, because this is where I

1:15:56

live. And so many people are afraid to

1:15:58

say that because then. you

1:16:00

come off as a bit of a hypocrite when like, it

1:16:02

is tough, it's very tough as a black person

1:16:04

or a brown person who lives in an impoverished area to say,

1:16:06

listen, I don't give a fuck about being pro-police or anti-police.

1:16:09

What I am pro is my neighbors.

1:16:11

So I would like it if my neighbors felt

1:16:14

better this week. Felt safe, felt

1:16:17

like they could go places with impunity.

1:16:19

Yeah, I, but

1:16:21

boy, it's, as you start to roll

1:16:24

it back, you realize we really only

1:16:26

attack things at that crisis level. Like we

1:16:28

really only. Absolutely, yeah.

1:16:30

The person has to be on the street,

1:16:32

already naked and screaming before

1:16:34

we end up

1:16:36

intervening and there's not a beer waiting. You know

1:16:38

who brought that up on the episode? Jay Jordan.

1:16:40

Jay Jordan. He said we have a response. You know why?

1:16:42

Because Jay Jordan is the shit. He's very good.

1:16:44

He's absolutely the shit, yeah. That

1:16:47

should be the title of his podcast. Jay

1:16:49

Jordan is the shit. Jay Jordan is the shit. Yeah,

1:16:53

totally agree. Guys, excellent.

1:16:56

I do wanna thank Mayor London Breed

1:16:58

for spending time with us, Chris Czymowicz, Jay Jordan,

1:17:00

as always, that's the problem with Jon Stewart

1:17:03

available on Apple TV Plus, because if I don't

1:17:05

plug it, I will be dragged into

1:17:07

the ground by promotional gremlins

1:17:10

and carried away. That's it, kiddies, great

1:17:12

job. See y'all next week.

1:17:15

Bye. Bye. Bye. I'm

1:17:31

John

1:17:31

Stewart podcast is an Apple TV plus

1:17:33

podcast and a joint bus

1:17:35

boy production.