0:15

Hello everyone watching and listening. Today

0:18

I have the privilege of speaking with women's

0:20

rights activist Kelly J. Keene,

0:23

also known as Posie Parker. We

0:26

discuss the co-opting

0:28

and invading of women's spaces, the

0:31

hatred, jealousy, and attraction toward

0:33

what women naturally possess,

0:36

which underlies the transgender movement,

0:39

the rise of false compassion

0:41

as a means to censor and control,

0:44

what Posie Parker aims to accomplish

0:46

with her Let Women Speak events,

0:49

and how social pressure, ideologically

0:52

captured police, and

0:54

terrorizing mobs have not

0:56

and will not silence her. Thank

0:59

you very much for agreeing to talk to me today,

1:01

Kelly J. Tell

1:04

me about the name Parker Posie first. So

1:08

when I was expecting one of my babies,

1:12

there were two names on our list, Posie

1:15

and Parker, and so when I

1:17

joined an online forum, I just used those

1:19

as an anonymous name, and it stuck.

1:22

But I go with my real

1:24

name these days.

1:26

I see, OK. And so, do you want to, maybe

1:29

you could let everybody who's watching

1:31

and listening know a little bit about you.

1:33

And I don't

1:35

know much about you. I've read your

1:37

Wikipedia page and done some background research

1:39

as well. You sound like quite the

1:42

monster when you read your Wikipedia page, but

1:44

it's a Wikipedia page, so, you

1:46

know,

1:47

that has to be taken with the

1:49

requisite grain of salt, and we can go

1:51

through that. I mean, it's quite interesting,

1:53

for example, that you're described as an anti-transgender

1:57

rights activist. That's pretty convenient

1:59

for the people. who don't like what you're saying, right?

2:01

That you're an anti-transgender

2:04

rights activist. The left, you gotta

2:06

give the leftist radicals a certain amount of credit

2:08

for being able to warp language like nobody's

2:11

business. So, but who are you

2:13

and why are you doing what you're doing?

2:15

So I am a mother of four

2:18

and a happily married woman. I've

2:20

been with my husband for 25 years. And

2:23

then in 2015, this issue came

2:25

along. I was a full on labor voting

2:28

lefty. And I

2:30

joined an online forum of women and

2:33

then loads of men started populating

2:35

it. And unlike the women who actually were

2:38

completely ineffective in

2:40

their campaigning, unlike the men, women

2:43

weren't talking about themselves, what they looked like,

2:45

they weren't posting photos, but these

2:47

men did. And they were really

2:50

masculine looking men with wigs and

2:52

sort of 1980s secretary looks. And

2:56

I just asked one of them one day, do you really

2:58

identify as a woman? And the vitriol

3:00

from him was bad enough, but from other

3:02

women

3:03

was just astounding.

3:06

And I just thought, well, I'm not allowed

3:08

to talk about this. So I want to talk

3:10

about this.

3:11

And I'm not having anybody telling me that I can't

3:13

talk about something so significant. And

3:15

then I just started 2018. I

3:18

put a billboard up with the dictionary definition

3:20

of the word woman. And that really sort

3:23

of solidified my place in this movement.

3:26

Yeah, the billboard that was adult

3:28

human female. Yeah,

3:31

hateful. Yeah,

3:33

well, that's pretty, yeah. Yeah,

3:35

okay, so you said a couple of things there that I found

3:38

interesting so that

3:40

the first was that you

3:43

asked one of these men who was in this woman's

3:46

forum whether or not he identified

3:49

as a woman and received

3:52

a lot of hate and vitriol in response.

3:54

So well, first question is, do you feel

3:56

that you crafted your question in a manner

3:59

that might've invited that?

3:59

that sort of response or what other explanation

4:02

do you have for it? And then the second thing you

4:04

said, which I think is equally relevant

4:07

is that not only did you receive

4:09

a lot of vitriol from the person to whom you

4:11

directed the question, but you received

4:14

excess vitriol from women.

4:16

And so,

4:20

first of all, let's inquire into the question

4:22

that you posed to see if there was anything provocative

4:24

about it and second, I'd like

4:27

to hear your thoughts on why

4:30

you have experienced the fact that women

4:32

are very likely to jump on this

4:34

particular bandwagon, for example,

4:37

and provide noisy and

4:41

self-righteous support

4:45

for the people that you

4:47

are hypothetically pillory. So

4:50

let's start with the question, like, do you feel

4:52

that you asked a fair question of

4:55

this particular man?

4:57

I actually don't think I asked a question

5:00

and that's because my knowledge

5:02

in 2023 means I think it probably

5:04

wasn't provocative enough. I think

5:06

I should have basically not asked the question, do you

5:08

identify, but just told him that he wasn't a woman

5:11

and it was insulting to pretend to be

5:13

one. So yeah, it

5:16

was the wrong question, but I've learned a

5:18

lot since then. As

5:21

for women, I think I'm supposed

5:23

to say as a women's rights campaigner that

5:26

women are

5:29

oppressed under the patriarchy and

5:31

therefore they're just trying to struggle to get

5:33

their place at the table. And I don't think it's

5:35

that, I think it's currency.

5:37

And I think the reason women compete in

5:39

who can be the

5:40

quickest to give women's rights away is because

5:43

then they have currency of being these really nice

5:46

people. And I think women

5:49

often use psychological warfare and

5:52

ostracizing and niceness,

5:54

shall we say, as a strategy

5:57

to win against other women.

5:59

So that's...

5:59

That's why I think women do that.

6:02

So well, two things

6:04

about that. So there

6:07

is a pattern of antisocial behavior

6:10

among women that's been well documented

6:12

in the relevant psychiatric research.

6:14

And so antisocial men

6:16

tend

6:17

to use to devolve towards

6:19

physical violence, but antisocial women

6:22

use

6:23

gossip, malicious slander and reputation

6:26

savaging.

6:27

And so that's been documented for

6:30

decades and

6:31

that's the female pattern of antisocial behavior.

6:34

But you tied it into something,

6:36

you tied it into currency.

6:38

And so I want to tell you a little story. So

6:40

I interviewed this

6:42

very deep religious thinker. His

6:45

name is Matthew Paggio and he wrote

6:47

a book called, what is it, The Sacred?

6:49

I'll remember it momentarily.

6:53

It's about Genesis. And I talked

6:55

to him about the sin of Eve in

6:58

the story of the Garden of Eden.

7:01

And it's a sin of pride,

7:04

right? It leads to the fall. And the sin of pride

7:06

is that Eve proclaims

7:09

that it's something like she

7:11

can even clasp the serpent to

7:13

her breast, the poisonous serpent. So

7:16

imagine that it is the case that

7:18

women are caregivers and especially caregivers

7:21

of infants and that their ability

7:23

to provide care is one

7:25

of their true strengths, but it's also

7:27

a potential source of status. And

7:30

so a woman who wants to make a false

7:33

and prideful status claim can

7:36

claim that her maternal embrace

7:38

is so all encompassing that

7:40

even the serpents can be included. Right

7:44

now, the next thing of course that happens is Adam

7:48

harkens to her

7:50

claim. And I think what happens

7:52

there is that

7:54

men will enable women by

7:56

telling them that their desire to embrace

7:59

even the serpents.

7:59

and the poisonous

8:01

is laudable and that the social structure,

8:04

which is what Adam's responsible for, say in

8:06

the Genesis story, the social

8:08

structure can be modified to

8:11

accommodate to their wish. Of

8:14

course, that precipitates the fall, all of that.

8:17

So you said, the reason I brought

8:19

this up is because you said your

8:21

conclusion has been that the women who

8:23

are defending the indefensible,

8:27

which would be, let's say, the male claim that

8:30

femininity, femalehood,

8:32

is merely

8:34

subjective identification,

8:36

that women are claiming to support that because

8:38

they want to obtain currency. Okay,

8:41

so why have you become convinced of that? And what

8:43

exactly do you mean by that?

8:45

I just think it becomes, I

8:47

guess, status is part of it, but I

8:51

think everybody does something for self-serving reasons.

8:53

And I think by a process of elimination,

8:57

I just can't think why else

8:59

a woman would do it. And I've thought about it a lot.

9:03

I've already tried to think, what

9:05

is in it for someone who says,

9:08

yeah, your 16-year-old daughter can share a space

9:10

with a man getting addressed.

9:12

How else could it be justified

9:14

besides some sort of self-serving motive?

9:17

And I think it just comes to currency that

9:20

they can maybe pretend

9:22

that they don't have these feelings, which

9:25

may just be heaps of cognitive

9:27

dissonance, but I just don't buy

9:29

it. I think it's dishonest. I don't

9:31

buy it that somebody who's experienced

9:34

any female-only space where men have entered,

9:37

and most of us women have,

9:39

and what happens in those moments is we

9:42

breathe quietly,

9:43

we wait until the threat is gone, and we understand

9:45

it. Before I can rationalize it, I understand

9:48

it as a threat. And I just don't buy

9:50

that other women don't do that, so they must

9:52

have self-serving motives.

9:54

You said, when we first started our discussion,

9:57

that, you know, several years ago... within

10:00

the span of a decade, you were a

10:02

card-carrying member of the Labour Party and

10:04

that your political ideology

10:06

was

10:07

tilting towards the left. And I

10:09

suppose the classic leftist rejoinder

10:12

to what you just said was that, no, you've just

10:14

developed an unreasonable prejudice on

10:17

behalf of, that's directed towards

10:19

the poor, oppressed, marginalized trans

10:22

men, let's say, the men who are

10:24

claiming to be women, and that all that

10:26

happened to you is that you reached the limits

10:29

of your tolerance and that your genuine prejudice

10:31

was revealed, and that you're rationalizing

10:34

the emergence of that prejudice

10:36

by gaslighting the women who are generally

10:38

compassionate about the marginalized. And

10:40

the reason I'm formulating the question like this is

10:43

because you were or

10:45

are, I don't know which,

10:47

on the left politically,

10:49

and the left historically has been,

10:53

at least in principle, campaigning

10:55

for the rights and the inclusion of the dispossessed.

10:57

And so, look, Kelly,

11:00

I've gone to Washington several times

11:02

and talked to

11:04

Democrats in the House and in the Senate.

11:06

And I did the same with Robert Kennedy

11:09

when I interviewed him recently. And

11:12

I always ask the Democrats that

11:14

I meet the same question, and that is,

11:17

when does the left go too far?

11:20

And I've never

11:22

received an answer to that question,

11:24

you know?

11:25

And they ask me at reverse, and I

11:27

always say, well, I think they go too far when they

11:29

push for equity, because that's equality of outcome

11:31

and that's complete bloody disaster. And

11:34

their response uniformly is, no, no,

11:36

no, they just mean equality of opportunity,

11:39

which they most decidedly don't. But

11:42

you are or are on the left, and

11:45

maybe we can delve into that a little bit,

11:47

but for some reason, you appear

11:50

to be proclaiming and do

11:52

believe that there's something false

11:54

about the compassion that's being manifested,

11:57

at least in this particular case. What

12:00

is that, how do you square that

12:02

with your original leftist presuppositions?

12:04

And how do you distinguish genuine

12:07

compassion for the marginalized

12:09

and oppressed from whatever it

12:12

is that you're objecting to now?

12:15

Well, I think I had a journey,

12:18

shall we say, in this X Factor world in

12:20

which we live,

12:22

where I realized that I was being lied

12:24

to about this. And then I realized

12:26

that what independent was total

12:29

hatred and dismissive attitudes

12:33

towards women and our fears and

12:35

the reality of our lives, and

12:38

wider and potentially

12:40

more important, but for me, I'm a women's rights campaigner,

12:43

but also a disregard of the truth

12:45

in favor of a point of view,

12:47

an ideology, some sort of power that's

12:51

handed over to these people. So

12:53

it

12:54

was at that moment that I then have to really

12:56

question, because I'd be a fool if not to,

12:59

why else do I believe the things I believe?

13:01

And are they true? Do they really exist?

13:04

And the answer I came up with was categorically,

13:07

no, they're not. Is

13:09

it true that the left is less misogynist

13:11

than the right?

13:12

Absolutely categorically not.

13:15

The trade union movements, like when you look at those

13:18

in the UK, they didn't really care about women's workers'

13:21

rights. And I don't mean gender pay gaps or

13:23

any ethereal kind of concepts that

13:25

we can discuss in 2023, whether

13:28

we agree with them or not. And I think you and I are probably closer

13:30

to agreeing on

13:32

that it doesn't really exist.

13:35

But yeah, it

13:37

just made me think, were the left always like this

13:39

and I was just stupid and naive, or have

13:41

they really dramatically changed? And

13:44

I haven't answered that question fully because

13:46

maybe I just don't want to admit that I've been stupid

13:48

most of my life. But no, I

13:50

can't possibly, I don't

13:53

think women right now with this ideology

13:55

and nobody really standing up for us, I don't

13:58

think we can place our flag in any particular way.

13:59

political camp?

14:01

Well, you know, I worked

14:03

for a leftist political party when I was a

14:05

kid. It was a long time ago from the

14:07

time I was 14 to the time I was 17 and I got

14:09

to know

14:10

the wife of

14:15

the leader of the Socialist Party in my

14:17

home province of Alberta and I liked her

14:19

a lot. She was a librarian from

14:21

our local junior high school and

14:24

me and all the other delinquents used to go out

14:26

during recess and lunch hour and go hang

14:28

out in the library and

14:29

bother Mrs. Nautley. And we did

14:32

that partly because she treated us like adults

14:34

and I did it partly because she used to give

14:36

me things to read and she gave me a lot

14:38

of great books to read and she was the first person who

14:40

really introduced me to serious literature. And

14:43

I got to know her and her husband so that kind of

14:45

gave me privileged access to the

14:47

stratospheres of the Labour

14:50

Party, the Socialist Party, the NDP

14:52

in Canada and I met a lot of the

14:54

leaders and this was back

14:56

in 1977, about 77, so a long time

15:00

ago. And

15:03

you know, I found a lot of them admirable. I

15:05

thought they were, they were often Labour leader types,

15:08

you know, union types and they had done a fair

15:10

bit

15:11

to give the working class

15:13

in Canada a voice

15:16

and they emerged out of

15:18

farmers cooperatives in Saskatchewan

15:20

and so that seemed to be like a genuine political

15:23

movement and a genuine voice for

15:26

those who were shut out of the political process.

15:28

The Conservative Party at that time was clearly

15:31

the party of big business and sort of unashamedly

15:33

so and the Liberal Party was in the middle

15:36

but the

15:37

NDP, they had admirable people

15:39

in them, you know, but I watched the activists

15:41

back then and they really bothered

15:44

me. I thought they were resentful and bitter

15:46

and whiny and narcissistic

15:49

and that was eventually why I stopped

15:52

working with the

15:53

NDP and that was in 1979 I

15:56

guess. So

15:57

I would say I don't think the

15:59

left has always been like

16:02

this. You know, I think that

16:04

the working class needed a political voice,

16:06

and I think that's still true. Now, whether

16:08

they can find it on the left or not now, I

16:10

don't think they can. But I don't think

16:12

that

16:13

you were merely blind

16:15

your entire life, and that

16:18

the left has always been pathological, but

16:20

I do think that compassion

16:22

is the best camouflage for narcissistic

16:24

serpents. And so if the left

16:26

proclaims itself as

16:29

the party of the oppressed, then

16:31

it opens up the door

16:33

to being invaded by those who will

16:35

use claims of compassion to put forward

16:37

their narcissistic, what

16:40

would you, clamoring and groping

16:42

for power. And one of

16:44

the problems with being on the left is that it's

16:47

very hard for liberal types to draw

16:49

boundaries. And so you

16:51

risk being invaded

16:53

by the real predators.

16:56

And I really think in some ways that's what's happened

16:58

to the left is that the narcissists

17:01

have invaded and they now dominate.

17:03

And this is an age old story, right?

17:06

This is a danger to, this has been a danger

17:09

to organizations since the

17:11

dawn of time,

17:12

and it's certainly happening now.

17:14

So

17:15

I don't think it was a complete existential

17:17

catastrophe, you know, what you believed,

17:21

but I do think that that inability

17:23

to draw distinctions on the left is

17:26

potentially fatal. So

17:30

where do you find, how do you conceptualize

17:33

yourself? Now, I think I pointed out

17:35

that if you read your Wikipedia page,

17:37

then what you are apparently is

17:39

an anti-transgender rights activist.

17:42

And that sounds like a pretty damn reprehensible sort

17:44

of person, because I mean, here's

17:46

these poor marginalized transgender

17:49

men, let's say, who are just trying

17:51

to struggle forward, you know, what would

17:53

you say, bravely as President

17:56

Biden would say, and a world hell bent

17:58

on their oppression and genocide.

17:59

And there you are, you know, opposing

18:02

their rights. And so what's

18:04

your, this is a

18:07

horrible thing to ask, but what's your self-definition?

18:10

The Bible is the root of

18:12

all wisdom, inspiration and spiritual

18:15

nourishment. The Hallo app empowers

18:17

you to explore the Bible's profound teachings and

18:19

to effortlessly incorporate them into your daily

18:21

life. A great place to start while

18:24

you deepen your understanding of the Bible is to

18:26

check out Father Mike Schmitz's Bible in

18:28

a Year, available on the Hallo app for

18:30

brief daily readings

18:31

and reflections. Here

18:33

you can dive into an extensive library of Bible

18:35

reading plans, accompanied by insightful

18:37

reflections and audio guided meditations.

18:40

Whether you're a seasoned Bible reader or just starting

18:42

your journey, Hallo provides a platform

18:44

for you to engage with Scripture like never before.

18:46

Studying the Bible's literary brilliance has

18:49

influenced countless writers, poets and

18:51

artists throughout history. By studying the Bible

18:53

yourself, you'll gain a deeper appreciation

18:55

for the power of storytelling, symbolism

18:57

and metaphor enriching your

18:59

understanding of literature across different genres. The

19:02

Hallo app also helps you connect

19:03

with a community of like-minded individuals,

19:06

sharing experiences, insights and encouragement

19:08

along the path to spiritual growth. Download

19:11

the app for free at hallow.com slash

19:13

Jordan. You can set reminders and track your

19:15

progress along the way. Enrich your

19:17

education and nurture your mind and soul

19:19

today. Download the Hallo app at hallow.com

19:22

slash Jordan. That's hallow.com

19:25

slash Jordan. Hallow.com slash

19:27

Jordan for an exclusive three month free

19:29

trial of all 6,000 plus prayers

19:32

and meditations.

19:36

Oh, I struggle with it

19:38

on a daily basis. It's so fluid. I'm

19:41

just an adult human female. I'm a mother,

19:43

I'm a wife, I'm

19:45

a subject of the United Kingdom. I'm

19:47

just a

19:48

person, but it's

19:50

just so, I'm just not having it that

19:54

these men are vulnerable. If you feel vulnerable

19:56

and you don't want to be, and you

19:59

genuinely feel.

19:59

that the world hates you so very much. I

20:02

don't know why you put on

20:04

women's clothes to leave the house. I

20:06

mean, it's just, I'm just not having such

20:08

a nonsensical, silly ideology

20:11

taking over what my spaces look

20:14

like and the spaces of my daughter. So

20:17

I call myself a women's rights activist because

20:19

I believe that women's language,

20:21

I mean, so much

20:24

goes back to that word woman and

20:26

what it means and who can use it.

20:28

And

20:30

we are now debating what sex means

20:33

in the Equality Act, which is just

20:35

fundamentally just

20:37

ridiculous. We know what sex

20:40

means, and now we're having to re-clarify

20:42

what it means in law, in our

20:45

sort of in our rights act, so

20:47

that women can have spaces. And for

20:50

me, the Equality Act is a nonsense anyway. I

20:52

digress slightly on this. But for

20:54

me, the Equality Act is not is just

20:57

doesn't make any sense because surely

20:59

a proportionate reason, and that's one of the things

21:01

you need to justify a women-only

21:04

space or a women-only group is proportionate

21:06

means. Well,

21:09

if I say I just want women in my groups, then

21:11

that's proportionate. If

21:13

I said I just wanted women on my board of a

21:15

company, maybe not so. But

21:18

if I say that I just want a social group

21:20

that's women only for women, I

21:23

don't know why I need to justify keeping

21:26

a man out who says he's a woman. And

21:28

then it goes back to the GRA, and I'm sure we'll

21:30

get onto that. But I fundamentally think

21:32

having a legal fiction in this country

21:35

is preposterous and

21:37

has led to all of the

21:40

fallout we now see.

21:42

If we were tolerant, we'd just let these men do what

21:44

they like, call themselves whatever they like, stay

21:47

out of women's spaces and just

21:49

all get on with our days. But we don't.

21:52

We have to pretend that they are actually women.

21:54

And I'm not doing it. So there's

21:56

a lot of issues that

21:59

you just... brought

22:01

up there. Yes, so. The,

22:03

well, I would like, I would like

22:05

if you would to explain for those who are

22:07

watching and listening a little bit more about the Equality

22:10

Act. And then maybe we could turn to this issue of,

22:13

I think it's

22:15

a hatred and jealousy of women. It's

22:17

a hatred, jealousy and attraction

22:20

to what women hypothetically have. That's

22:23

part of the,

22:24

what would you say, nexus of psychopathology

22:26

that's driving this

22:28

desire to tread

22:33

on the grounds of women's rights, to appropriate

22:36

the domain of femininity. So

22:38

this is cultural appropriation in its most fundamental

22:41

sense. I'd like to delve into that a little

22:43

bit. Cause I watched Dylan Mulvaney very carefully

22:46

and Dylan

22:47

Mulvaney makes quite an effective

22:50

comedian. He's good

22:52

at parodying women in the same way, in

22:55

a manner that's akin to what the Monty

22:57

Python folks used to do, although because they

22:59

were,

23:00

they were very masculine looking

23:02

men, they had to parody, they made themselves

23:04

into particularly hideous middle-aged women

23:06

and parodied them. And they were very funny

23:09

about it. And Dylan Mulvaney is actually

23:11

quite funny, except that he doesn't

23:13

know when to stop telling the joke. And

23:17

there is this element of parody in his behavior

23:19

that's absolutely paramount. When I

23:21

first saw him, I thought, there is absolutely

23:24

no way this guy is serious. He's trolling

23:26

everyone. This is just a

23:28

very elaborate joke. And I

23:30

thought maybe it had a touch of genius in it because

23:33

it was an incredibly elaborate joke.

23:35

But he's

23:37

taken the joke a little too far. And it

23:39

seems to me to be quite clear that he will

23:42

shred his connection with

23:44

reality to elevate himself narcissistically

23:47

in the public eye. And

23:49

that means that he's gone too far. And the people

23:51

who enable him, who are these,

23:54

what would you say, narcissists of compassion

23:56

on the left are doing him absolutely

23:58

no favors?

23:59

I can't see a good end for Dylan Mulvaney.

24:02

I can't see how you can go

24:05

where he's gone and continue. Anyways,

24:07

let's start with the Equality Act. Will you bring

24:10

everybody watching and listening up to speed about

24:12

that?

24:13

So there are different characteristics, might

24:15

be disability, religion, freedom of religion

24:17

and freedom from religion,

24:20

sexual orientation, gender

24:23

assignment. So when that started,

24:25

that used to be, oh, sorry, gender reassignment.

24:28

So that used to be transsexuals.

24:30

And what they did is they made it so vague and

24:32

opaque that they could revise what

24:35

gender reassignment actually meant. So you

24:37

could be protected. To

24:39

what extent? I'm not actually sure,

24:41

but you can't be discriminated against for having

24:44

gender reassignment. Well, I

24:46

think there are points at which it would

24:48

be inappropriate. For example, we

24:50

do have brafitters in the UK who

24:53

now have got jobs, so men

24:56

who don't have much surgery, who call

24:58

themselves women, now are brafitters in

25:01

large shops. And

25:03

you're skeptical of that, I take it. Well,

25:07

look, I'm a prude British. There's

25:09

very few chances I would

25:12

take to go and get brafitting anyway. But certainly,

25:14

if it was

25:16

a man, a person

25:18

I would call a man, i.e. an actual

25:20

man, then I wouldn't do it. And

25:22

also, I've been, you know, I've got

25:25

a teenage daughter. You go for a first

25:27

brafitting. It's incredibly

25:29

embarrassing. And to hear a male voice

25:31

in that space would be horrendous.

25:34

Because as we know, girls, when they develop through

25:36

puberty, it's the most embarrassing time,

25:39

and also the time when they most need to fit

25:41

in with their peers. And so those two things

25:43

are really hideous anyway. But

25:47

anyway, I digress. So the Equality Act

25:49

is a balance of different rights

25:52

based upon different characteristics. And

25:56

at the moment, in the

25:59

Westminster Hall debate, Yesterday, there

26:01

was a debate on whether or not

26:04

the Equality Act, when it talks about sex,

26:06

even though we've got gender reassignment in the Equality

26:08

Act, now sex is opposed to, according

26:11

to people mainly on the left, include

26:14

men who call themselves women, which then

26:16

makes the whole thing pretty damn laughable

26:19

if sex in our law,

26:21

in our legal system, actually means someone who says

26:23

they're

26:24

a particular sex as opposed

26:26

to someone who is

26:28

a particular sex. And I

26:30

just think this is where we are. For

26:33

example, we have a gender recognition act,

26:36

which means that you can change your gender,

26:39

but there is no such thing as gender

26:41

throughout most of our laws

26:43

that actually has any definition.

26:46

And it's the same in the States, I should imagine it's the same

26:48

in Canada, where they've flooded all

26:51

of our laws that actually are reliant on biological

26:53

sex. They flooded with the word gender, so therefore

26:56

it becomes mixed up. And then you can pretend all

26:58

along you just meant people who identify

27:01

as one sex or another. So, you

27:03

know, for me, the Equality Act is a

27:06

little dated now, and I think very confusing

27:08

anyway, and I think we need to rip

27:11

it up and start all over again. Okay, so

27:13

on the on the bra fitting question,

27:15

let's say, so why isn't

27:17

the proper response to your

27:20

concerns?

27:21

Well, it's the modern age, we've

27:24

already dispensed almost all together

27:26

with men only spaces.

27:28

It's now time to do

27:31

the same to female only spaces.

27:33

And maybe the right attitude

27:35

for you and your daughter is to just get

27:37

over your prudishness and to accept the fact

27:40

that

27:41

people who want to do something, including

27:44

bra fitting, can do it regardless

27:46

of their sex or their gender. So why

27:48

would you you appear to reject that

27:50

proposition? And why do

27:52

you think that so

27:54

two questions, I guess, why do you think it's appropriate

27:57

for you to reject that

27:58

claim? And

27:59

and for you and on behalf of your

28:02

daughter, let's say. And then

28:04

there's a thornier question underneath that, which

28:06

is, well, under what conditions

28:08

is discrimination? Which by

28:11

the way, used to mean judgment as well as any

28:13

number of other things. What are the situations

28:16

under which discrimination actually becomes

28:19

not only appropriate, but say ethically

28:21

mandated? This is a conversation we

28:23

haven't had in our culture for, and I would say

28:25

this is the fault of the left, although the right

28:27

wingers have enabled it by being so hapless.

28:30

We haven't had a discussion about what constitutes

28:32

appropriate discrimination for, you

28:34

know, since like 1964. It's

28:37

a very long time. So first of all, why do

28:39

you think you're justified in your phobia,

28:42

there we go, in your phobia about

28:44

going to have a bra fitting with a man

28:46

who claims to be a woman?

28:48

Well, I think if society

28:50

had moved on to a point where women and men

28:53

weren't uncomfortable, naked

28:55

around each other, if there was no such thing as sexual

28:57

assault, if there was no such thing as like low level

28:59

sexual assault, which is voyeurism and indecent

29:01

exposure, which is an opportunist crime,

29:04

and we know that most of the people that would do that

29:06

will be men, and most of the victims will be women

29:08

and children. So I think in that

29:11

regard, if that had changed and that

29:13

no longer existed, then maybe

29:15

I would be open to listening. But

29:17

we know that men and women don't particularly

29:20

like to be undressed in front of each other, and if

29:22

you're in the UK, that includes everybody,

29:24

whatever sex they are. We're

29:26

relatively prudish, I'm quite happy to be

29:29

so. But I just think

29:31

we have naked bodies, and we have boundaries

29:34

around those sort of naked bodies, and in

29:36

situations where women feel more uncomfortable

29:38

and in a state of undress. And I

29:41

know that boys feel like that too, around

29:44

the opposite sex at certain stages of their lives,

29:46

if not all of their lives. And so

29:48

I think

29:49

that's why, I mean,

29:51

we sort of joke about this question, but

29:54

we both know that that question is asked. It's

29:57

a genuine sort of question for

29:59

us. from the left when you, or from trans

30:01

activists, when you speak about this. And

30:03

my first question

30:06

used to be, does my 11-year-old daughter

30:09

have the right to be in a female-only

30:11

space and not see an adult penis? And I would

30:13

ask that in female-only labor

30:15

women groups online. And I

30:17

was told, no, she's transphobic,

30:19

you're raising a bigot, why is your daughter staring at

30:21

genitals? Is she a pervert?

30:24

You know, and so I

30:26

think at that point, you realize there's a quasi-religious

30:28

cult, and it's dogmatic, and it

30:31

doesn't make any sense, and it's indefensible

30:33

because they don't have arguments, they have mantras.

30:35

Well, and you know, that's

30:38

also a good place to observe as well that that

30:40

issue of currency that you just described

30:42

also rears its hideous head at that

30:44

point. It's like, it's a competition

30:47

between the women that you're talking about to see

30:49

who can virtue signal the loudest about

30:51

their loving kindness and tolerance. And

30:53

that becomes monstrous and devouring when taken

30:56

beyond a certain point. That's certainly what Freud observed,

30:58

for example, when he wrote extensively about

31:00

the Oedipal complex, because what we're

31:02

seeing in the culture right now is the

31:04

Oedipal complex

31:05

gone

31:06

mad on a scale that would, I'm sure,

31:08

is making Freud rotate in his coffin at

31:11

about 150 spins per second. No

31:15

one could have possibly envisioned

31:17

that this onslaught of

31:20

tyrannical compassion would devour the whole

31:22

culture.

31:23

No, it's, what would you say? The onset

31:25

of a new kind of totalitarianism that's

31:27

predicated in

31:29

an antisocial feminine ethos.

31:31

So here's some things that you

31:34

might find interesting. So of course,

31:36

girls hit puberty earlier than boys.

31:39

And so,

31:41

and it's in some ways more dramatic.

31:43

And I would say it's more dramatic because

31:46

women are clearly more vulnerable on the sexual

31:48

front. And the reason they're more vulnerable

31:50

is manifold. First of all,

31:53

they're physically smaller. And so that's

31:55

a problem. And second,

31:57

smaller and weaker, especially

31:59

in the upper.

31:59

her body, right? So they're not that good at

32:02

fending off like full scale physical

32:04

assaults, let's say from a large man. And

32:07

second,

32:08

they're sexually vulnerable because a sexual

32:10

mishap for a woman can result in pregnancy,

32:13

obviously, and the dangers that are associated with

32:15

that and social shame that's associated

32:18

with inadvertent pregnancy,

32:20

and then that lengthy period of dependence

32:22

that's associated with the child, and those are all real

32:25

costs. And so what

32:27

happens biologically to girls is

32:29

that when they hit puberty, two

32:31

things happen. Their levels of negative

32:33

emotion increase

32:35

because there are no difference between negative emotion,

32:37

baseline negative emotion for boys and girls.

32:40

But at puberty, the negative emotion of women

32:42

increases and it never

32:44

returns to, what

32:46

would you say, parody with men. It's

32:49

raised up and it's permanently raised up. This

32:51

is why women are four to five times

32:53

more likely, something like that, to suffer

32:56

from negative emotion related disorders,

32:59

including anxiety and depression. And the

33:01

reason for that, I think, is because

33:04

if you're vulnerable on the sexual

33:07

front, which is the case for women, then you

33:09

should be more sensitive to threat because

33:11

the world's more dangerous.

33:13

And now the other thing that happens, so

33:16

women's anxiety and negative emotion

33:18

also tends

33:19

to take the form of bodily

33:22

self-consciousness. And

33:24

that's more true for women than for men.

33:26

And I think it's because the body, that's

33:29

one way of thinking about it, is the locus of vulnerability

33:31

for women for the reasons that we just outlined.

33:34

And it's also because women are evaluated

33:37

in terms of their status more harshly

33:40

on the basis of their physical appearance than

33:42

men are. A man are evaluated more harshly

33:44

on the basis of their,

33:45

let's say, socioeconomic status, way

33:48

more harshly.

33:49

But so there's some equivalence of harshness,

33:51

let's say, across the sexes, but it's differentiated.

33:55

And so your daughter has

33:57

every reason to be lyrical.

33:59

and wary in any situation

34:02

that she might be exploited. And the

34:04

reason for that is,

34:06

well, she might be exploited

34:08

and it's not trivial. I mean, I don't

34:10

think there's any less trivial form of exploitation

34:14

than exploitation on the sexual front, especially

34:16

for women. You know, is

34:19

rape worse than death?

34:21

Well, it's

34:24

arguably worse. No,

34:27

and it's not taken with requisite seriousness.

34:29

And so I think you have every leg, you and

34:31

your daughter have every leg to stand on when you

34:33

say, well, it isn't obvious

34:35

to me that

34:36

it's compassion allowing these

34:39

unbelievably narcissistic and self-centered

34:41

men into women's spaces.

34:43

It's like, what the hell are they doing? If

34:45

a man wants to turn himself into a woman and then

34:47

just right off into the sunset and not bother

34:49

anyone for the rest of his life, it's like, you

34:52

know, go to hell in a hand basket your own way

34:54

there, buddy.

34:55

But when you start proclaiming that you should have access

34:57

to, let's say, barely pubescent

34:59

girls and to hell with their feelings

35:01

because you're all that matters, I think you've

35:03

gone a little bit too far down the narcissistic

35:06

path myself. Yeah.

35:08

This is 3C Body Shop, here

35:10

to share Celia's real experience getting her

35:12

car fixed after she was in an accident. I've

35:14

never been in an accident ever before.

35:16

3C took care of it all. It was flawless.

35:19

I didn't have to worry about it. I wrote a small check

35:21

for my deductible and before I knew it, I

35:23

had my car. My Lexus drives

35:25

like it was brand new. Would I recommend

35:28

3C? That's the only place to go to get

35:30

your car repaired. I'm Celia from

35:32

Columbus and I recommend 3C.

35:35

The privacy and collision repair.

35:38

Well, we've always had terrible people, right?

35:40

People have always existed that want to do bad things

35:43

and want to impose themselves on others.

35:46

We just now have a state sanctioned, like

35:49

narcissists charter, where it means

35:51

that those men can go into women's

35:54

spaces and celebrated for doing

35:56

so because they're so stunning and brave

35:59

for getting undressed in front of them. of teenage

36:01

girls. It's like

36:03

it's,

36:04

if it wasn't so serious, it would be amusing

36:06

that

36:07

it just doesn't make sense. And coherent

36:10

adults, like sensible, intelligent

36:13

adults with sensible jobs

36:16

will actually talk like this. We'll say

36:18

that what's the harm of

36:21

a man.

36:21

You mean like the president of the United

36:23

States. I presume you've been watching what happened

36:26

in the last week, which

36:29

again falls under that

36:30

heading of,

36:33

if it wasn't true and dangerous, it would be so

36:35

funny that it's unbearable category.

36:38

And so the White House

36:40

invited this, absolutely narcissistic

36:43

exhibitionist, trans,

36:45

I never know trans man, trans woman.

36:47

I can never get the damn terminology right. A man

36:49

who's deluded himself into

36:52

believing that he's a woman and who's

36:54

insisting that everyone else participate

36:56

in his lie. How about that? And what

36:58

did he do? He stood up on the White

37:00

House lawn with one of his idiot

37:03

friends who had had a double mastectomy and she

37:06

showed off the remnants of her chest

37:08

proudly. And he showed off his silicone

37:10

breasts. And that was pretty damn

37:13

comical given that it was the White House, but what was

37:15

even more comical was the White House response

37:17

because Biden had proclaimed the very

37:19

same day that there's almost nothing braver

37:22

than a trans man, which is

37:24

really quite the bloody claim. And then

37:26

claimed retrospectively

37:28

to be shocked and appalled by the fact that

37:31

the people celebrated for doing exactly

37:33

the things they did on the White House law and actually

37:35

came

37:35

out and did them. And so, yeah,

37:37

it's an evil parody. And I

37:39

think there is an evil parody element to

37:42

totalitarianism that needs

37:45

to be called out and noted because everybody

37:47

in a totalitarian system is an evil

37:49

clown

37:50

playing this demented game that's

37:53

a parody of real life. And there is an element of

37:55

unbelievably black humor in it. And I

37:57

see that in the behavior of people like Dylan Mulvay.

38:00

because he's obviously parodying women.

38:03

And I think he does it because he's

38:06

insanely jealous of what he thinks they

38:08

have, right? It's the unearned privilege

38:10

of being a woman to be elevated

38:12

onto a kind of pedestal and

38:14

to what, to have the world

38:16

at your feet because of what your beauty, because

38:19

that seems to be what he's chasing and

38:21

all the

38:23

rights and privileges you accrue merely

38:26

because you're feminine.

38:27

And so it's the deluded

38:30

vision of resentful

38:32

men who think that those

38:34

of the opposite sex

38:36

have an elevated position in creation,

38:38

right? Have all the rights and none of the responsibilities,

38:41

have all the beauty and none of the ugliness.

38:44

And they're jealous of that and they can't have it. And

38:46

as a consequence of that, I think they hate women.

38:48

Yeah. Oh, I don't- Something like that. I

38:51

definitely think they hate women. I wonder with

38:53

Dylan whether or not this is not just a vehicle

38:56

for narcissism as opposed to, I

38:58

wonder if the rest of it is a bit of a sideshow

39:00

for him, being feminine, being

39:02

jealous of women. He

39:04

said some pretty dreadful things, but I wonder if he just hated

39:07

women always. And this just

39:09

happens to coincide. But

39:12

I think he's driven by extreme

39:14

narcissism and wanting to be famous probably

39:17

more than he's driven by wanting to

39:19

be a woman, which I don't actually

39:21

think he does.

39:23

I think it's just a thing. Well, I think

39:25

that's right. Although I also think watching

39:27

him, like he is very feminine

39:30

in his mannerisms. And this

39:32

is where the distinction between sex

39:35

and gender becomes complex, right? Because I

39:37

don't believe that there's any such thing as gender.

39:39

I think- Me too. I think the people who

39:41

came up with the notion of gender, to

39:44

call them appallingly

39:46

under-qualified and incoherent academics

39:49

is to say almost nothing about how unqualified

39:52

and incoherent they are. However,

39:54

people do vary temperamentally and

39:56

there is a relatively

39:59

large proportion. of men, let's

40:01

say, who have temperaments

40:04

than on average are more like female

40:06

temperaments than male temperaments. And the

40:09

reverse is also true because there's wide

40:11

temperamental variability among

40:13

human beings. And so there

40:15

are lots of feminine men and masculine

40:18

women.

40:18

Now that doesn't mean they're born in the wrong damn

40:20

body. It just means that the range of

40:22

temperament within the sexes is actually

40:25

quite broad. And I think Dylan

40:27

is a relatively feminine in

40:30

his temperament. And I think

40:32

that probably is confusing for him, especially

40:34

because he's also very high in openness, which is

40:37

creativity dimension, right? I mean, he's been

40:39

an actor forever and he still is one. And

40:42

actors and creative people do have relatively

40:44

fluid identities because

40:46

being creative and having a fluid identity are

40:48

the same thing.

40:50

Now, if you combine that with his

40:52

narcissism, which is that desire for

40:55

fame, that untrammeled and

40:57

what would you call it? It's

40:59

viciously unidimensional desire

41:01

for fame. You do get the kind of behavior that he's

41:04

manifesting, which is like he, it looks

41:06

like he'll sacrifice himself on

41:08

the altar of his own fame.

41:11

But that's also not that uncommon.

41:13

It's certainly what school shooters do, for example,

41:16

right? They'll commit suicide

41:18

to

41:19

get a front page headline.

41:21

And that's deeply rooted in

41:24

the motivational structure of men because

41:28

of course men are judged on

41:30

the basis of their social status. And so they're

41:32

highly motivated

41:35

to attain that status,

41:37

by fair means or foul come hell

41:39

or high water.

41:40

Now, I just wanted to make a comment about femininity

41:43

because I find it really interesting when men accused,

41:46

if you like, of being feminine, because

41:48

I think

41:49

so-called effeminate men take

41:51

up a lot of space, a lot of

41:54

public space. And I don't mean like man spreading.

41:56

I mean,

41:57

like literally volume wise.

41:59

what they're willing to do, how

42:02

they enter a room. It doesn't

42:04

strike me as particularly feminine if we

42:06

look at stereotypical feminine, which is make

42:09

yourself small, stay quiet, be submissive.

42:11

I don't think flamboyant, effeminate men are

42:15

remotely feminine. I don't know what else to

42:17

call it, certainly not masculine, but

42:19

it is, it just

42:21

doesn't seem to for me neatly fit into

42:24

what is feminine.

42:26

But

42:27

yeah. Yeah, well,

42:29

I think maybe that's a good distinction. Well,

42:32

I think archetyply, there's sort of two

42:34

classes of feminine, right? You could

42:36

think about it as the virgin and the whore.

42:39

And so, and there's an uneasy tension

42:42

between those two, obviously. And

42:45

the kind of feminine behavior that

42:47

you're claiming to be not feminine

42:49

is more on the whore side of things, and

42:51

it's histrionic and demonstrative.

42:54

And

42:55

you can see elements of it. You can

42:57

see elements of that in the icons

42:59

that gay

43:01

men, for example, choose to

43:04

idolize on the feminine side. And

43:08

they would be people like Marilyn Monroe,

43:10

for example, who's an icon among the gay community.

43:12

And that's because her

43:15

femininity is, I

43:18

don't wanna be unfair to Marilyn Monroe because

43:20

that's not my point, but her

43:23

persona was very glamorous and demonstrative

43:27

and when that gets pathologized,

43:30

the psychiatric community, the psychological community

43:32

describes that as histrionic.

43:34

And it's certainly the case that the behavior,

43:36

and that's from hysteria, by the way, which

43:39

meant wandering womb and wandering uterus

43:41

to begin with. And back in the dark

43:43

Victorian times, sometimes histrionic women

43:46

were cured by hysterectomy,

43:50

which cured their hysteria, right?

43:52

So that's all interestingly and

43:54

bizarrely intertwined. But the

43:57

femininity that the men that you're describing

43:59

flaunt.

43:59

isn't the reserve chased end

44:02

of the femininity distribution. It's

44:04

the more histrionic, demonstrative,

44:07

attention-seeking, femme fatale

44:09

end of the distribution. Like your typical

44:12

trans man like Dylan dresses

44:14

up like a movie star, not like a nun,

44:18

unless he's parodying nuns.

44:20

Yes, he does. Yeah, you're right. So

44:23

let's talk about what happened to you in

44:25

your public speeches. So what are

44:27

you trying to accomplish with

44:31

your public

44:33

communications? And

44:36

would

44:38

you tell a few stories about what's happened

44:40

to you? So for example, what

44:42

happened to you in New Zealand became worldwide

44:44

news.

44:46

If you'd like, we could start with that or

44:49

maybe you could trace the development of

44:52

your public speaking.

44:53

Said that this must have all come as somewhat of a shock

44:55

to you and produced a lot of changes in

44:58

your life. Maybe we'll do it that way. When

45:00

did you start speaking publicly?

45:03

So after the billboard got

45:05

taken down,

45:07

I was sort of, my banning from this

45:10

public square, the modern public square, i.e.

45:12

Twitter, Facebook, et cetera, that began.

45:14

So I was banned from Twitter for nearly five

45:16

years. So my voice in

45:19

the public square just disappeared. I'm

45:21

not even allowed to sign a petition on change.org.

45:24

Like I'm so banned. People

45:28

won't make things for me. Anyway, so I

45:30

was banned from everywhere. So I was like, well, let's go

45:32

back to the actual public square

45:36

and make real life connections with people. And

45:38

so I started doing that in about 2019. And

45:41

we started doing speeches at Speakers' Corner

45:44

and inviting women to come and speak. And

45:46

then women all over the country couldn't

45:48

get to those events. I

45:51

also did one in lockdown. So

45:53

we did a speech, we went to Leeds, which

45:56

is in the North of England during lockdown. But

45:58

because we weren't marching about-

45:59

Black Lives Matter, we could catch

46:02

COVID.

46:03

So we all got arrested for trying to speak

46:05

in the public. Oh, yes. And

46:08

then I was at a cell that was covered in sort of body

46:10

fluids. So I think I was

46:12

more at risk of catching COVID in that

46:14

cell, but I got arrested live on

46:17

my livestream. But

46:19

it's just about, it's twofold,

46:22

or maybe more than that. There's

46:25

one, it means that women get to speak in public

46:27

about their fears for

46:30

their children, for their education system, for the

46:32

state, specifically

46:35

to do with this quasi-religious

46:37

cult of transgenderism. So

46:39

that will be one element of it. So free

46:41

speech is a really important part of that. Enabling

46:44

women to come along who don't have to buy a

46:46

ticket to watch a few special women on

46:49

a platform and on a panel speak about their lives,

46:51

but ordinary women speaking about

46:53

their lives. And we livestream it, which means

46:55

other women, maybe in very similar

46:58

situations, will hear their story and it will resonate. And

47:01

it's about waking everybody up to what

47:03

the dangers are of this cult. And

47:06

the other thing is that

47:08

we basically,

47:10

through bait and

47:12

perfect fishing conditions, we

47:15

bring out the misogyny and we

47:17

conjure, we basically

47:20

play the opposition,

47:22

who come along and

47:24

object violently and aggressively to women

47:26

speaking in public. And so then we show

47:28

everybody just exactly what's going on.

47:31

So you started that at Speakers Corner and you've

47:34

traveled around the world now holding

47:36

these events. What countries have you gone

47:38

to? Well, we did the US, so

47:40

I did about 10 dates in the US. I couldn't go

47:42

to Portland, you won't be surprised, because

47:44

there were credible death threats in Portland.

47:47

So we didn't go there. We went to San

47:49

Francisco. I objected to a

47:52

senator who brought in the bill, SB 132,

47:56

which is about men and women's...

47:57

Was that Scott Wiener? Yes,

48:00

it was. What a really named man. Oh, yeah,

48:02

he's a real fun. Yeah.

48:04

Perfect. So, Chicago,

48:08

and I made a documentary

48:10

about it. And what I learned

48:12

in America is you may have the right

48:15

to free speech, but you do not

48:17

have the right to be heard. So, we got

48:20

protested. As long as people

48:22

didn't touch our faces or

48:24

touch us in front of the police,

48:27

we were allowed to just be this close to

48:29

our faces banging, making noise, so

48:31

we couldn't be heard. So, that was very

48:33

interesting. And then I thought,

48:36

well, I'll go to Australia and New Zealand. They're

48:38

relatively lovely places to visit.

48:42

And I went to Australia, and I got defamed by

48:44

one of the politicians who read

48:46

my Wikipedia page, didn't fact-check

48:48

a single word of it, and put

48:50

it out on the television, which then made

48:53

my life

48:54

very vulnerable. And I went to New Zealand,

48:56

and I was mobbed

48:57

by, the estimate is

48:59

about three to five thousand people

49:02

who really did

49:04

want something terrible to happen to me.

49:07

That's a lot of people in New Zealand. Yes,

49:09

yes. It's nearly half the country,

49:11

I'm told. Yeah. And

49:14

so, they

49:16

came to protest, and it

49:18

was very aggressive. And then I had

49:20

to go into police protection until I could leave

49:22

the country. And even in the police station,

49:25

it was only on a need-to-know basis. So,

49:27

even police officers didn't know I was in the

49:29

police station to keep me safe.

49:33

What was that like for you

49:34

in New Zealand? I mean, I watched the footage, and

49:36

it was quite the show. I

49:39

mean,

49:39

what did that do to you, and

49:42

why haven't you stopped?

49:45

I mean, you could just go back to your life in principle. Maybe

49:47

you can. Maybe you're too far into this now

49:49

so that, you know, your life will never be what

49:51

it was. That's possible. But in principle,

49:54

you could stop saying the things

49:56

that you're saying, and you could stop exposing

49:58

yourself to this.

49:59

pretty high level of public threat. I mean, I've

50:02

been in nasty, nasty demonstrations

50:04

and they're not exactly fun, especially

50:07

when people are six inches

50:09

from your face and screaming madly away.

50:11

And I'm always afraid I'm going to do

50:13

something

50:15

that I would regret in a situation like

50:17

that. I mean, I have security people and part of the reason

50:20

for that is so they don't let me do anything I'll

50:22

regret when someone is screaming madly

50:24

six inches from my face or using

50:26

an air horn to shut me down, but

50:30

really so that they're sadistic, the little

50:32

sadistic devil that they've allowed to dwell

50:34

inside them can, what would you say, delight

50:37

in the fact that they're potentially

50:39

deafening someone. And that's happened

50:42

multiple times. But I mean, that was a lot

50:44

of people who were after you and

50:46

that was a pretty tense situation

50:49

to say the least. And so what did

50:51

that do to you psychologically? And why

50:53

are you continuing to speak

50:55

out, let's say? I

50:58

don't know, maybe I must say, Sheperd, because it didn't

51:00

actually, you know, people say, how

51:03

are you recovering? Are you okay?

51:05

And

51:06

in those moments, I just put one foot

51:08

in front of the other. I think you do when you're in moments

51:11

like that, you focus on the things that you can

51:13

control. And for me, it was about stepping

51:15

forward and not letting anybody fall over. So

51:17

not letting the person in front

51:19

of me when there was a bench coming up fall over the bench,

51:22

because I just felt that we would

51:24

be stumped and probably killed if we hit

51:26

the floor.

51:28

But I say a lot on my channel, like,

51:30

if not you, then who? And

51:33

it's me. You know, in

51:35

this entire movement, to

51:38

be rather immodest, I probably am the

51:40

most known female

51:42

in this women's

51:45

rights movement, not in the sort of the broader

51:47

free speech movement, but in this women's rights

51:49

movement. And

51:51

I am really lucky. I don't have an employer.

51:55

I am self-funded. I sell merchandise

51:57

in order for me to do these things.

51:59

I need

52:01

to sort of very

52:03

expensive security whenever

52:06

I go into a public event, because I can't

52:08

be certain that I'm going to be okay. And

52:11

we have sort of exit strategies and plans, but

52:14

yeah, I just, I, you know, there's a bit

52:16

of me that thinks, how dare they? Like,

52:19

who do they think they are? And why would I stop?

52:21

Like there's women, there's girls

52:24

in the United States of America age 13 having their

52:26

breasts removed, probably dozens today. Why

52:29

would I stop?

52:30

It's,

52:31

I'm an atheist, but I would say that

52:34

if anything was gonna convince

52:36

me that there was a devil, it

52:38

would be this. It's just plain

52:41

evil. Yeah, well, lots of people come to God through

52:44

contact with the devil. That's

52:46

for sure. Yeah, well,

52:48

you know, the thing is, is once

52:50

you have encountered malevolence,

52:54

you start to understand the reality of evil.

52:57

And once you start to understand the reality

52:59

of evil, you're compelled by logical

53:02

necessity to posit the

53:04

reality of good. You know, and God

53:06

has been defined

53:07

for a very long time as the

53:09

pinnacle of what constitutes good.

53:12

And if you start to believe in radical evil,

53:14

well,

53:15

you start to have to posit that its opposite

53:17

exists. Right? And

53:20

so that's an interesting, you might say, that's a very

53:22

interesting road to walk down. And

53:24

you're trying to figure out in part, you

53:26

know, what's your moral obligation under

53:28

such circumstances. And you alluded

53:31

to the fact that you think that somebody has

53:33

to speak for people, let's

53:35

say like Chloe Cole, who was, I think

53:37

she had a double mastectomy when she was 15, and

53:40

the wounds never healed properly, surprise, surprise,

53:43

because, you know, it's butchery and not

53:45

surgery. But you know,

53:47

you also alluded to the fact that you think

53:49

in some ways that it's self-evident that people should

53:51

stand up against this because well, look

53:54

at what's right in front of you folks, but most

53:57

people don't. And you're pilloried

53:59

quite roundly.

53:59

I mean, your Wikipedia page is actually

54:02

quite a work of art because you definitely

54:04

come across as quite the reprehensible

54:06

creature on that page.

54:09

And that's an example of exactly how you're pilloried

54:11

and painted by the radicals on the left.

54:13

And one of

54:15

the interesting issues here

54:18

is, well, just exactly what it is, what

54:20

is it that you're fighting? I

54:23

read the other day, this is a very interesting

54:25

paper. There's about 10 papers now that

54:28

are looking at the, what

54:31

would you say, the nature and the psychological

54:36

traits

54:39

associated the nature of left-wing

54:41

authoritarianism and the psychological traits

54:43

that are associated with it.

54:45

And so some of the latest research

54:48

shows very clearly that

54:50

malignant narcissism, psychopathy,

54:52

Machiavellianism, and sadism

54:54

are very, very good predictors of

54:56

left-wing authoritarianism. And

54:59

left-wing authoritarianism seems to be a pastiche

55:02

of sort of progressive left-wing political

55:04

views,

55:05

which would include the expansion of rights

55:08

and this kind of compassion that perhaps

55:10

originally attracted you to the left years

55:12

ago, but also the insistence

55:15

that all of that can be, could and

55:17

should be imposed by force

55:19

and through the means of compulsion.

55:21

So it's the aggregate of those two

55:24

things. And the people who hold

55:26

those viewpoints are

55:29

remarkably disproportionately

55:31

likely to be

55:33

sadistic, psychopathic, Machiavellian

55:35

narcissists.

55:36

And so, you might ask yourself, well, are

55:38

you engaged in a political fight or are you just

55:41

engaged in the age-old,

55:43

what would you say,

55:44

requirement of women to

55:47

put the serpent under their heel?

55:50

Right, that's what God calls upon women

55:52

to do at the end of the story, the Adam and Eve

55:54

story in Genesis, right, is to bruise

55:57

the head of the serpent with your heel. There's

55:59

this, It's this great image of Mary that's a Renaissance

56:02

image. It was very common

56:04

Renaissance image, eh? And

56:06

it's an attempt to lay out

56:08

the symbolic image of the divine feminine.

56:11

And so what you see is Mary, who's

56:14

the

56:15

mother of the Savior, the eternal mother

56:17

of the Savior, the mother of the hero, let's say.

56:19

And she has

56:21

like a crown of stars, 12 stars

56:23

around her head. And that means that her head is

56:26

in the stars and her

56:28

foot is on the head of a serpent. Very

56:30

common motif. And

56:33

what that does mean is that if you aim

56:36

for the highest aim possible,

56:39

you will simultaneously put your foot

56:41

on the head of the serpent.

56:43

And that that's actually your,

56:45

what would you say? That's your divine obligation

56:47

as a female.

56:49

You know, that, and women, of course, forever

56:51

have protected the vulnerable from the real

56:53

serpents. And in

56:56

our mammalian heritage,

56:58

going back 60 million years, that

57:00

often meant,

57:03

what would you say, doing everything possible to stop

57:05

your children from being eaten? Right,

57:08

well, there's being eaten in the real world

57:10

concretely as a consequence of exposure

57:13

to genuine

57:14

predators, reptiles and

57:16

otherwise, but there's also all sorts of being

57:18

eaten that your children can face on

57:20

the abstract front. And so,

57:24

well, these are all, what would you say? Religious

57:26

ideas lurking beneath the surface of this

57:29

strange political

57:31

situation that we find ourselves in.

57:34

So you feel a moral obligation to do this. And

57:38

tell me again when that started

57:40

to emerge.

57:42

In 2015, when we elected a Conservative

57:44

government, because I don't think many of

57:46

us, because I was in the left, so I had no idea

57:49

what was going on outside. And

57:52

I didn't know that we were going to elect a Conservative

57:54

government, and we did. And so, 2015, and then, you

57:56

know, I wrote...

58:00

a letter called Grieving the Left when

58:02

I was in 2016 about, you

58:05

know, I just, I couldn't tolerate being

58:08

part of something. And even

58:10

now women that are on the left trying to fight

58:12

this from inside, they

58:16

still haven't gone on that sort of discovery

58:19

of what else is

58:21

wrong with my assumptions. So

58:23

I think that's,

58:26

you know, I think about Chloe Cole and

58:29

girls like her. And I think

58:32

overwhelmingly the thing I think

58:34

is the greatest harm is that they

58:36

have themselves to blame. Now, I don't really

58:38

think they do because they're children

58:41

and they can't consent. And normally in situations,

58:44

we would say that children aren't to blame for things

58:46

that happen to them like the medical

58:48

mutilation of their bodies. But

58:51

she must have to wrestle with that. They all must

58:54

when they come to the decision

58:56

that

58:56

what they've done to themselves is wrong.

58:59

And they must definitely

59:01

wear some of that blame. And I just can't-

59:04

Well, if you're a lying therapist,

59:07

let's say, and your goal as a lying

59:09

therapist is to elevate your own moral

59:12

standing

59:13

in your own eyes,

59:16

even at the cost of your clients,

59:18

then you enable their darkest motivations.

59:22

And so, and you do that under the guise of compassion.

59:25

So Chloe told me when I interviewed her that

59:29

when she was

59:30

starting to go through puberty,

59:32

she was a real admirer of

59:34

the Kardashian

59:36

girl with her

59:39

exaggerated, hypersexualized,

59:40

female hourglass

59:43

figure. And I'm not

59:46

critiquing that, by the way. I'm saying

59:48

that

59:49

Chloe had adopted that as an ideal.

59:52

And she became convinced,

59:54

and I don't think she's ever told anyone this, she might

59:56

have, she certainly didn't tell her demented idiot

59:59

lying therapist.

59:59

who enabled her worst

1:00:02

impulses, she decided,

1:00:05

and this was all part of, you might say, pre-pubescent

1:00:07

fantasy, that she

1:00:10

wasn't going to make a very good woman

1:00:13

because she realized,

1:00:15

rightly wrongly,

1:00:17

when she started to go through puberty, and that happened

1:00:19

fairly early, that she was likely to have

1:00:21

a comparatively boyish figure. Now, I

1:00:23

mean, compared to

1:00:26

Kardashian, virtually all women

1:00:28

have a boyish figure, so you could

1:00:30

say that her standard of comparison was not

1:00:33

precisely wisely chosen, but you could understand

1:00:35

why she might have done it. And she decided

1:00:37

that, well, she was never going to be a very

1:00:39

good woman, so maybe

1:00:41

she could do better as a boy.

1:00:43

You know, and

1:00:44

there's a temptation in that, right? And

1:00:47

that bears on this issue of

1:00:49

moral culpability, is she was toying

1:00:52

with irresponsible ideas, right?

1:00:55

They were dwelling, they were attempting

1:00:57

to dwell within her, that's a good way of thinking about

1:01:00

it. Now, a good therapist would have listened

1:01:02

to her so hard that

1:01:04

he would have elicited that realm

1:01:07

of fantasy,

1:01:08

let's say, and then walked her through it.

1:01:10

You know, because the right discussion is,

1:01:12

well, why did you pick Kardashian as

1:01:15

your

1:01:15

target for femininity? And isn't

1:01:18

it the case that there are an immense

1:01:20

variety of female forms of beauty?

1:01:22

Like Audrey Hepburn wasn't

1:01:25

Kardashian, you

1:01:26

know? She had that gammon,

1:01:28

I think that's what they call it, look, which is more

1:01:30

waif-like and in some ways more boyish.

1:01:33

And there was no reason for Khloe

1:01:35

to assume that the only acceptable adult

1:01:38

human female form was that

1:01:40

exaggerated hourglass

1:01:41

femininity

1:01:44

characterized by Kardashian. And that

1:01:46

should have been delved into. But

1:01:49

to call her psychological care poor

1:01:51

is to

1:01:52

give far more credit to her therapists

1:01:55

than they deserve because not only was

1:01:57

it poor, it was the reverse.

1:02:00

of helpful, you

1:02:01

know, and so she was enticed down the

1:02:03

garden path by her own fantasies, but

1:02:06

still more fundamentally, she was enabled

1:02:08

by the liars and the butchers that she ran into.

1:02:12

Yeah, I mean, it's, it's

1:02:14

unfathomable. I mean, if we really, if we

1:02:18

think about a hospital in America right now, you know,

1:02:21

sedating somebody getting ready for a double

1:02:23

mastectomy in their teens, it's, it's

1:02:26

just,

1:02:27

it's difficult to think that why I can't,

1:02:30

I just can't, I can't leave

1:02:32

it. Like I can't stop until it stops,

1:02:35

because I've

1:02:36

got four children, I want them to

1:02:38

live in a world where they can speak. Like

1:02:41

my one of my sons is at university, I can't even drop

1:02:43

him off.

1:02:44

I can hit nobody can know that I'm his mother,

1:02:46

you know, it's,

1:02:48

I don't want my kids to live in that world where they

1:02:51

should be able to talk about everything, even really terrible

1:02:53

ideas they should be able to express in

1:02:56

a, in public or to their friends. And they

1:02:59

can't do that. So I just think

1:03:01

it's, yeah, nothing would persuade

1:03:04

me, I don't think, to, to

1:03:06

stop because the more people tried to stop

1:03:08

me, the more I think I'm, I'm right and I'm on

1:03:10

the right path and it has to be done.

1:03:13

Yeah. Well, that's a good, that's

1:03:15

a good UK tradition, you know, that's

1:03:18

for sure. What do your kids think about

1:03:20

you and what you're doing?

1:03:23

Well, they're all quite lovely actually, even

1:03:25

if I do say so myself. So I have four children,

1:03:27

I have a 21 year old boy, 20 year old boy, 16 year

1:03:29

old girl and a 14 year

1:03:31

old boy. My 14

1:03:34

year old is the most likely to try

1:03:36

and engage in the topic with his friends, which

1:03:39

has not been very successful. My

1:03:42

daughter said to me quite some years ago,

1:03:44

mommy, I think you'll be in the history books.

1:03:46

So she's on side. They all, they

1:03:48

all think I'm right. I'm very lucky. I've known

1:03:50

about this since 2015 and

1:03:52

before it was really poisoned all

1:03:55

the way through the school. So I had

1:03:57

a really good chance and we're quite open.

1:03:59

and in my house, and I don't mean

1:04:02

like we sit around singing

1:04:04

kumbaya, I mean, that if my kids

1:04:06

had an issue, they can come to me and talk about stuff.

1:04:09

So yeah, okay, so you said

1:04:11

it's partly because you're open and

1:04:13

your communication style, but it seems to

1:04:15

be likely

1:04:16

from what you've just said that they must trust

1:04:19

you. I mean, this must have been quite

1:04:21

troublesome for them to see all this happening around

1:04:23

you. And so why do you think

1:04:24

you've been fortunate enough to continue

1:04:27

to have that familial support?

1:04:29

I mean, these issues sometimes break families up.

1:04:31

So why hasn't that happened in

1:04:34

your case? Well, I think because I'm a

1:04:36

parent and I've parented

1:04:38

my children. I think there's a, you

1:04:40

know, women come to my meetings where their children

1:04:43

can't be told that they're there because their children

1:04:45

might fall out with them. And I just think, you know,

1:04:47

I'm the role of the parent in my children's lives.

1:04:49

I'm not their friend. They don't have to agree

1:04:51

with me. I don't have to agree with them. It's

1:04:54

not like they have to think everything that comes out

1:04:56

of my mind is right, but I

1:04:58

am their parent. And so they

1:05:01

trust me because

1:05:02

throughout their lives, when I've said something,

1:05:04

I'm telling the truth in

1:05:08

an age appropriate way. And so

1:05:10

I think they understand that

1:05:12

my sort of, I don't know if I'm an authoritarian,

1:05:14

although I'm relatively close, I suspect,

1:05:18

when it comes to my parenting, but you know,

1:05:20

if I say that something is okay,

1:05:23

that I'm going to be fine, that I'll do it and it

1:05:25

will be done, they've seen time and time again

1:05:27

that that happens. One of

1:05:30

my children in their

1:05:32

school, they

1:05:33

were going to have a lobby group go in and give a presentation

1:05:36

about gender identity. So I

1:05:38

said to them, I said, well, I'll go and sort this

1:05:41

out. And I went

1:05:43

into the school and I had a meeting with the head of

1:05:46

PSHE and I,

1:05:47

she said, oh, well, we don't really know what we're

1:05:50

teaching. So we've got this lobby group in. And

1:05:52

I said, who? Oh, well, she said

1:05:54

an education group, but they're not, they're a lobby

1:05:57

group. They're a pro-trans lobby group. They're

1:05:59

trying to indulge.

1:05:59

and eight children in schools. And she said, oh,

1:06:02

it's Giles. And I said, oh, no, you

1:06:04

won't, no.

1:06:06

And

1:06:08

she said, oh, any reason? I said, no, you won't be doing

1:06:10

that because it's harmful to children.

1:06:12

And if you don't know what you're teaching, why would

1:06:14

you let someone else teach it? No, that will

1:06:16

not happen. And

1:06:19

I think I have enough authority in my voice

1:06:21

and it did not happen because I said it wouldn't

1:06:24

happen. And my kids know that if

1:06:26

I do that, it happens.

1:06:28

I could put your mind at ease on one

1:06:30

front, perhaps. So there are a variety

1:06:33

of different parenting styles and

1:06:37

one of them is authoritarian,

1:06:39

but

1:06:40

the opposite of that

1:06:42

is, I don't remember the technical term,

1:06:44

but

1:06:46

it's basically lax and progressive,

1:06:48

but what it really is, is irresponsible

1:06:51

in the guise of inclusivity and compassion.

1:06:53

And then in the middle, there's authoritative,

1:06:55

right? And kids with authoritative parents

1:06:58

do better.

1:06:59

I'll be that one then. So, well,

1:07:02

right, right. Well, that's not the same as authoritarian

1:07:04

and it's really useful to know this, especially for

1:07:07

people on the left because people on the left tend

1:07:09

to think that anything authoritative is

1:07:11

authoritarian and that's

1:07:14

just not true,

1:07:15

right? And you're, well, I would say,

1:07:18

that's partly what you've

1:07:20

been clarifying for yourself conceptually

1:07:23

as you've wrestled with the, what

1:07:26

would you say, the problematic elements of your

1:07:29

previous

1:07:30

leftist stance,

1:07:32

where

1:07:34

do you draw the line? Authoritative

1:07:37

people draw the line and when

1:07:39

you draw the line, what you mean when you draw

1:07:41

the line is,

1:07:43

no, you're not

1:07:45

going to do that.

1:07:47

And no means something like,

1:07:49

if you continue to do that, something

1:07:53

you do not like will

1:07:55

happen to you with 100% certainty.

1:08:00

that's what no means, you know? And there's a certain harshness

1:08:03

in that. And if that's applied all the time,

1:08:05

well, then it becomes authoritarian, obviously,

1:08:08

because authoritarian say no to everything.

1:08:10

But people who are judicious say no to the things

1:08:12

that

1:08:14

should have no said to them. And that

1:08:16

is very,

1:08:17

what would you say? It's anxiety

1:08:19

relieving for children, hey? Because

1:08:22

children wanna know where the walls are, because

1:08:25

they wanna know

1:08:27

in what space they can play and what's there

1:08:29

to keep the predators

1:08:31

at bay. And so they push and push their

1:08:34

parents and everyone around them

1:08:36

to find out where the walls are. If you're asking,

1:08:38

you know, why do children misbehave and test

1:08:40

the limits is because if

1:08:42

they find limits, then

1:08:45

they can relax comfortably within

1:08:47

them.

1:08:47

People do that in the context of the romantic

1:08:50

relationships all the time, too. They

1:08:52

provoke to see where the walls are. And

1:08:54

if the answer is,

1:08:55

well, there are no walls anywhere,

1:08:59

then the upshot of that is that you're

1:09:01

exposed to everything in the world and you're terrified.

1:09:04

And so the progressive parents terrify

1:09:06

their children because there are no boundaries.

1:09:08

And so then their children just explode

1:09:11

in every direction, testing the limits,

1:09:14

praying desperately to themselves that they'll

1:09:16

find them somewhere. And the

1:09:18

progressive types say, well, you know, there are no

1:09:20

limits, because all limits are nothing but authority.

1:09:23

And their children are desperate

1:09:26

and lost. Yeah, well,

1:09:29

all that's not much fun. That's for

1:09:31

sure. So

1:09:33

would you tell me a little bit about Mermaids?

1:09:37

Because people in North America don't know very much about

1:09:39

that story. And you've had some entanglements with

1:09:41

that particularly lovely organization.

1:09:43

So I've been interviewed under

1:09:45

caution by the British police on

1:09:49

two occasions at the behest of

1:09:51

Mermaids. So Mermaids is a

1:09:53

charity in

1:09:54

the UK. I would class

1:09:56

them as a pro-trans in

1:09:59

kids lobby group. who

1:10:01

claims to protect trans

1:10:03

kids,

1:10:04

which I

1:10:06

think is

1:10:07

a nonsensical thing that doesn't

1:10:09

exist. There is no such thing as a

1:10:12

trans child, just like there's no such thing as

1:10:14

a vegan cat.

1:10:15

And you have

1:10:18

Susie Green, when her son was 12, she

1:10:20

took him out of the country to see Dr. I

1:10:23

think his name's Dr. Quack.

1:10:25

It might not be, but

1:10:27

I've remembered it like that.

1:10:29

You just want it to be. It

1:10:32

might actually be, oh no, it's Spack,

1:10:35

but I've remembered it as Dr. Quack. I

1:10:37

just put it in my memory bank, so sorry.

1:10:40

Anyway, she took him and got puberty blockers. We didn't

1:10:42

give them out in the country back then. And

1:10:45

then at 16, she took him to Thailand and had

1:10:48

his testicles removed, which I called

1:10:50

castrated on Twitter. Which

1:10:53

is what it is, by the way.

1:10:55

Yeah, although in my

1:10:57

police interview, which I did no comment all the way

1:10:59

through, but in the interview, the hate crime

1:11:01

officer, which is an actual thing

1:11:03

in the UK, the hate crime officer

1:11:06

said, did you know sex reassignment

1:11:08

surgery doesn't include castration? And

1:11:11

I wasn't allowed to say anything, but I just thought, what did he

1:11:13

think? That he came home with what, testicles

1:11:15

for earrings? Like, of course it includes

1:11:18

castration. But

1:11:20

yeah, he was 16, and since then in

1:11:22

Thailand, they don't do surgeries on children

1:11:26

and cut their testicles off and slice

1:11:28

and invert their penises into a never-healing

1:11:31

hole. But

1:11:33

yeah, I got in trouble by the British police.

1:11:36

Twitter released my information to

1:11:38

the police,

1:11:39

and then I was interviewed under caution, and

1:11:41

they were gonna charge me with- What does that mean? What

1:11:44

does it mean to be interviewed under caution?

1:11:47

It's kind of like you have the right to remain silent,

1:11:49

so it's recorded, and anything

1:11:52

you say in that can be used in a court

1:11:54

against you, so-

1:11:55

I see, I see. You know, they said

1:11:57

it was voluntary, but if I didn't go to the interview,

1:12:00

Oh yeah, yeah, right. If

1:12:02

I didn't go to the interview, they would maybe

1:12:05

come and arrest me at my house, or if I was

1:12:07

pulled over for a traffic offense, they would arrest

1:12:09

me, or if I tried to leave the country,

1:12:12

they would arrest me.

1:12:13

That's what happened. I see, so it was voluntary except

1:12:15

for the force part. Yeah, it

1:12:18

was voluntary, but it didn't, there was punishment.

1:12:20

Yeah. Right, right, yeah, yeah,

1:12:23

you guys are having a lot of fun in the UK with this whole

1:12:25

hate crime officer thing, and interviewed

1:12:27

under caution, and yeah, and I guess

1:12:29

the Irish are running down that road pretty

1:12:31

much as fast as they can now, putting forward

1:12:34

the world's most reprehensible hate

1:12:36

speech policy, which

1:12:39

I always think that hate speech policy

1:12:41

is inevitably derived by people who

1:12:43

hate speech, and so that's actually

1:12:45

why they call it that. Yes, well, precisely,

1:12:48

and so

1:12:49

what was it like for you to

1:12:52

be interviewed by the police in the UK,

1:12:55

right?

1:12:55

The home of Liberty Central,

1:12:58

you might say for the world, because I think that's

1:13:00

a fair description of the UK. I mean,

1:13:02

you people, broadly speaking,

1:13:05

brought liberty to

1:13:07

the world. That's not a bad way of thinking

1:13:10

about it. I mean, you had some help from the Judeo-Christian

1:13:13

tradition, that's for sure, but

1:13:15

the UK has performed a pretty

1:13:17

stellar job on that front, and now here

1:13:19

you are with hate crime officers

1:13:22

and people like you being interviewed under

1:13:24

caution, and so

1:13:26

what does that do to you as a UK citizen?

1:13:29

Well, at first, for a start, I thought it was a joke, because they

1:13:32

text me, so I just assumed,

1:13:34

I didn't know we were so strapped for cash that

1:13:36

they would send me a text to ask me to

1:13:39

go do an interview, but

1:13:41

I think the realization that the police are ideologically

1:13:43

captured should instill

1:13:46

fear into everybody, like

1:13:48

whatever, even if it was an ideology that

1:13:50

I agreed with, I think it should still

1:13:53

make you afraid, because the law should be

1:13:55

the law, and it should

1:13:57

just be quite cold, black and white.

1:14:00

right or wrong, I'm quite happy with those

1:14:02

things. So to know that they've

1:14:04

been ideologically captured was

1:14:07

significant. The fact that they sent officers from

1:14:09

the opposite side of the country and they stayed a night

1:14:11

in a hotel in order to interview

1:14:13

me. Oh, that's interesting. So

1:14:16

they didn't use local officers? No.

1:14:19

Oh yeah, that's sneaky. I

1:14:22

mean, I've done this three times for,

1:14:25

one of them was saying that there was a,

1:14:27

so in Brighton last

1:14:30

year, I said that a woman who

1:14:32

called herself trans man and then

1:14:34

non-binary just, actually, she'd

1:14:37

said disparaging things about lesbians because she wished

1:14:39

she could have been one and accepted

1:14:41

herself. And I was,

1:14:44

I was in front of the police again. That was a, that was

1:14:46

police from the opposite side of the country from Brighton

1:14:48

to the West where I live. And

1:14:51

it's just utterly insane. The other

1:14:53

occasion I had police set my door

1:14:56

to police officers because, and

1:14:58

I quote, I had been untoward about

1:15:00

pedophiles.

1:15:02

And I don't know about you, Jordan, but I thought

1:15:04

they were one group of people, if any,

1:15:07

that you could be untoward about

1:15:09

were pedophiles.

1:15:10

Oh yes. Well, spoken like a true fascist,

1:15:13

you and your prejudice against pedophiles.

1:15:15

So yeah, well, hopefully, hopefully you won't.

1:15:18

Well, we're probably going to get cancelled on YouTube

1:15:21

for this interview anyway. But now you've made it a

1:15:23

virtual certainty. So you and your prejudice

1:15:25

against minor attracted persons, let's

1:15:27

say, do you know that 53%

1:15:31

of mothers with children

1:15:33

who purport to have gender dysphoria

1:15:36

have borderline personality disorder

1:15:38

or something roughly equivalent? You

1:15:41

know, and so you could say as

1:15:43

a clinician, if you weren't lying and

1:15:45

or compelled to lie by your government, which

1:15:47

is by the way now the case for all clinicians,

1:15:50

that the

1:15:53

suspicion properly raised

1:15:55

when confronted by any child who has gender

1:15:57

dysphoria is that the mother

1:15:59

has. borderline personality disorder. And

1:16:02

borderline personality disorder is a very,

1:16:04

very serious disorder. And it's associated

1:16:06

with cluster B in the DSM-IV.

1:16:09

And that's where all the

1:16:11

traits like antisocial personality and

1:16:13

narcissism and psychopathy and

1:16:15

childhood conduct disorder, et cetera, all cluster.

1:16:18

And so the mermaid's mother, she's

1:16:22

one to be viewed with suspicion to say

1:16:24

the least, especially given what she did to her

1:16:26

son, which to call it reprehensible and

1:16:28

inexcusable is to

1:16:30

say that Joseph Mangali was not a very

1:16:32

nice boy. And

1:16:36

it's very interesting to see that you're in

1:16:38

a situation in the UK where someone who's

1:16:40

as bent and twisted as that can operate

1:16:43

an entire charity and wield social

1:16:46

influence and also set up circumstances

1:16:48

so that

1:16:49

someone like you can be persecuted by the police.

1:16:52

Yeah. That's quite the inversion. See, this doesn't seem

1:16:54

to me to be political anymore when it comes to

1:16:56

that. It's something far darker than

1:16:59

the mere political. And I don't know, what do you think about

1:17:01

that? You said that you're not religious,

1:17:03

that you're atheistic, but

1:17:06

you understand that there's a strange sort

1:17:08

of battle going on. And do

1:17:10

you still construe it fundamentally in political

1:17:12

terms, that it's a battle between say

1:17:15

belief systems? Or how do

1:17:17

you conceptualize the war

1:17:19

that you find yourself in?

1:17:23

I think my view on it is instinctive. And

1:17:25

perhaps I'm quite lucky that I don't try and rationalize

1:17:27

my instincts. I just go with them. It's

1:17:31

always kept me pretty safe. And that's what

1:17:33

I talk to my children about. That's like one of the big

1:17:35

lessons is if it feels wrong, it's wrong. And

1:17:39

if actually it was a safe situation that you left,

1:17:41

there's no harm, but trust

1:17:44

your instincts.

1:17:48

I think a lot has happened in order

1:17:50

to get to this point. I think one

1:17:53

of the biggest things as I

1:17:55

move through this movement is the

1:17:57

lack of community. And I wonder if,

1:17:59

We didn't all move so far away from our natural

1:18:02

communities. I wonder

1:18:04

if people would get away with this stuff, because we

1:18:06

would have a broad range of people in our lives,

1:18:08

all different ages, that would

1:18:10

be talking to us all the time, and we would get a wide

1:18:15

plethora of views on any given anything.

1:18:18

I think we'd learn actually that human behavior is pretty

1:18:20

standard, whether you're in the 1400s, the 1800s, or right

1:18:22

now. I

1:18:25

think our impulses and urges are pretty

1:18:27

similar. If not the society in which we

1:18:29

live, maybe we don't exercise them in the same

1:18:31

way or express them in the same way, but

1:18:33

I think that we

1:18:36

are as old as time, and I don't think

1:18:38

we change that much.

1:18:42

But I think it just goes down to

1:18:44

currency again, and I think

1:18:47

borderline personality disorder or not, and

1:18:50

I'm inclined to agree with you.

1:18:53

Women get social kudos from

1:18:56

transitioning their kids. I

1:18:58

always say to people, if

1:19:01

somebody said, oh, I live next door

1:19:03

to John, he's a racist, nobody

1:19:06

would say, oh, that's great. Well

1:19:08

done, you must be so lucky. But if someone said,

1:19:10

I live next door to someone, she's

1:19:12

got a beautiful trans son,

1:19:15

people are going to then engage

1:19:17

in this nonsensical kind

1:19:19

of, why, that's so great. And

1:19:22

I say to people all the time, you should say, oh, gosh, that's

1:19:25

awful. That poor kid. That's

1:19:27

what you should be saying, that poor kid, because we know...

1:19:30

Apparently the actress

1:19:32

Megan Fox has three boys who

1:19:34

are all trans. I'm so shocked,

1:19:36

because she seems such

1:19:39

a resolute, sensible woman.

1:19:42

Yeah, well, I think the odds

1:19:44

of that, I think, are one in 27 million.

1:19:49

Because the odds of having one trans

1:19:51

kid, this is before all this blew

1:19:53

up and became a statistical

1:19:56

morass, because you can't really estimate the

1:19:58

prevalence accuracy anymore. of

1:20:00

course, because it's become a social contagion.

1:20:02

But originally

1:20:04

the estimates were something like

1:20:06

one in 3000 and I think

1:20:08

that was probably an overestimate, but whatever, it's close

1:20:11

enough. And so the probability you'll have

1:20:13

two

1:20:14

trans kids is one in nine million. And

1:20:16

the probability that you'll have three is one

1:20:18

in 27 million. So

1:20:20

you think, well,

1:20:22

the odds that the mother is a,

1:20:25

what would you say, a narcissist

1:20:27

willing to sacrifice her children to Moloch

1:20:30

for the elevation of her own moral

1:20:33

stature is 26,999,999 to one.

1:20:38

So you think that- Then you've got Jazz Jennings, haven't

1:20:41

you?

1:20:41

You've got Jazz Jennings having a whole program

1:20:44

about him and his distress. I

1:20:46

mean, if that is an advertisement for do

1:20:49

not do anything to your kids, I don't

1:20:51

know what is.

1:20:52

It's scary. Yeah, well, the question is,

1:20:54

what has that been an advertisement for? I

1:20:56

mean, when someone like you watches that

1:20:58

program, you think, oh my God, there's

1:21:00

a little, what would you say, window into

1:21:03

the abysmal. But I would say

1:21:05

in all probability that that has,

1:21:08

the fundamental consequence

1:21:10

of that show has been that

1:21:12

a whole parade of currency

1:21:15

seeking, virtue signaling, narcissistic,

1:21:17

compassionate

1:21:18

mothers have figured out a great

1:21:21

way to exploit their children

1:21:22

to gain social currency. Yeah.

1:21:26

I mean, for Paris Hilton- Because they don't care.

1:21:27

For Paris Hilton and Kim Kardashian, they

1:21:31

just made a sex tape. They

1:21:33

haven't sacrificed their kids. No,

1:21:36

maybe mothers should be encouraged to do that

1:21:38

instead. I am joking and being facetious,

1:21:40

but it's like, I don't know why-

1:21:43

See, you're on Dantay territory

1:21:45

there, right? Sorry. You're

1:21:47

on Dantay territory trying to organize out

1:21:49

the different levels of hell, right?

1:21:52

Well, I think we are in, we

1:21:55

are kind of in one in a country, in

1:21:57

both of our, well, in Canada.

1:21:59

in America, in the UK, Australia,

1:22:02

New Zealand, where actually there is a churning

1:22:05

through of children into this cult. I

1:22:08

think it's a certain level of hell

1:22:10

all of his own. And the fact that you can't-

1:22:12

Yeah, well, in Canada, we pride ourselves

1:22:14

in Canada on being

1:22:16

on the cutting edge of that particular bit

1:22:18

of butchery, so to speak. And

1:22:21

our prime minister, he's like virtue signaling

1:22:23

king of the universe. And one of the things

1:22:25

that's really appalling about that is that he really

1:22:27

does have Canadian women fooled. And

1:22:30

it's really something to watch because most Canadian

1:22:32

women still think that Justin Trudeau is the

1:22:34

right leader for the times.

1:22:36

And it's because he's got that superficial

1:22:39

charm and grace that

1:22:40

goes along with his consummate acting

1:22:42

ability. And he can use compassion

1:22:45

to guys his true nature, like nobody's business.

1:22:47

And so Canada is in rough shape

1:22:49

in consequence on all sorts of fronts. And

1:22:52

thank God we lost

1:22:54

Jacinda Ardern and also Nicola

1:22:56

Sturgeon. She was a really interesting

1:22:58

example to me. I thought it was so

1:23:01

fascinating to see because she really fell

1:23:03

into the leftist abyss in a most

1:23:05

profound way,

1:23:06

because her stance was,

1:23:08

well, of course any man who says he's a woman

1:23:11

is a woman. And the right rejoinder

1:23:13

to that was the one that the journalist who

1:23:15

really nailed her

1:23:16

provided, which was

1:23:19

every man,

1:23:20

everyone. How about the

1:23:23

psychopathic serial sex

1:23:25

offenders? How about them? Well,

1:23:27

of course they're women too. It's like, okay,

1:23:30

fair enough. Let's play that out and see how it

1:23:32

goes, right? Trans men,

1:23:34

trans women, whatever the hell they are, demented

1:23:36

men who claim to be women so that they can get access

1:23:39

to women.

1:23:39

You're gonna feel sorry for them.

1:23:41

That's your doctrine on the

1:23:43

political front. That pretty much did Nicola

1:23:46

Sturgeon in and it was well deserved.

1:23:49

Kelly, what do you want? What is it that

1:23:51

you're trying to accomplish? Like if you look five

1:23:53

years down the road and you're successful

1:23:56

in whatever it is that you're doing, what does

1:23:58

success look like to you?

1:24:01

I think it looks like a repealing of the GRA,

1:24:03

so there's no more legal fiction. The GRA is

1:24:05

a gender recognition act in which men or

1:24:07

women can pretend that they're the opposite sex and

1:24:09

be legally recognized. I

1:24:11

think if we take that away, I think

1:24:14

we begin

1:24:15

to get this out of our institutions.

1:24:19

I'd like women to be able to go to hospital

1:24:21

and if they ask for a female

1:24:24

member of staff, that that's what's delivered. Here

1:24:27

at Standing for Women with my organization,

1:24:29

we did some research and only four

1:24:31

out of all NHS trusts in

1:24:34

the UK, which are plentiful,

1:24:36

so every single area has a different NHS

1:24:38

trust. They only recognized

1:24:40

four percent, I think it was, or four

1:24:43

out of all of them, recognized a

1:24:45

man who called himself a woman as a different

1:24:47

thing to an actual woman. So

1:24:50

what that would mean, for example, there

1:24:53

is an acute

1:24:54

mental health ward for women in

1:24:57

a hospital, I think it's in Sussex, and

1:24:59

the head nurse there is a man

1:25:02

who wears fetish nurse gear for

1:25:04

kicks outside of the hospital. He

1:25:06

now calls himself a woman and the first

1:25:09

thing he did as the head nurse of

1:25:11

this acute psychiatric ward for women,

1:25:13

who clearly have been through probably a good 50

1:25:17

percent, maybe, trauma

1:25:19

at the hands of men and male violence, he

1:25:23

moved his office down to where these women sleep

1:25:26

and he was celebrated for that. So

1:25:28

I want women to be

1:25:29

engaged in hospital. Oh, that's fun. That's

1:25:31

great. That's one of the most demented stories I've ever

1:25:33

heard, so thank you for offering that to

1:25:35

everyone. I know, I'll send you some full details. Please

1:25:38

do. You can have a look at the photos.

1:25:40

I just don't think I could make up some

1:25:43

of the things that I know that are happening. I

1:25:45

know senior police officers who

1:25:48

are autogynophiles who make

1:25:51

excuses to go and speak to female victims

1:25:53

of crime, where they normally wouldn't because

1:25:55

they're far too senior. Right, so this

1:25:58

is...

1:25:59

You can lie to people and say, a woman

1:26:02

has a penis,

1:26:03

or a baby has a sexuality. Once

1:26:06

you can tell these massive lies

1:26:08

and people go along with it, they're susceptible

1:26:10

to go along with pretty much anything.

1:26:13

That's, yeah, you really put your finger

1:26:15

on it there. I think that's exactly right.

1:26:17

If you can force people to

1:26:20

swallow the insistence

1:26:22

that a man is a woman,

1:26:24

then you've blown out the law of non-contradiction

1:26:27

completely, and you are now allowed, not

1:26:29

only to say any damn thing you want,

1:26:32

but to insist that everybody abide by it, like

1:26:34

it's the dictates of God himself.

1:26:36

Yeah, yeah. Absolutely. It's quite

1:26:38

the trick. It's quite the trick. They must not question it. I

1:26:41

mean, we know, I did theology as a degree.

1:26:44

It's a very long story, but I am a gold star atheist,

1:26:47

so I've never had a belief in God

1:26:49

at all. I was brought up in an atheist household with

1:26:51

a relapsed Catholic mother. But

1:26:55

there's just, there's

1:26:59

something so religious about it in

1:27:01

the sort of dogmatic way that you cannot

1:27:03

question it at all. It is like a religion

1:27:06

from like the 1500s.

1:27:08

It's so

1:27:11

insane. Well, the

1:27:13

thing that frightens me, I'm afraid, is

1:27:16

that there

1:27:18

are no non-religious beliefs, not

1:27:21

in the final analysis. And if

1:27:23

the religious belief that

1:27:25

properly unifies people is sacrificed,

1:27:28

this is sort of the Nietzschean observation about the

1:27:30

death of God. What you see

1:27:32

is,

1:27:33

you don't even see the

1:27:34

rise of new religions, Kelly.

1:27:36

I don't think what you see is a regression to

1:27:40

archaic forms of religious belief,

1:27:42

and that's essentially a polytheistic paganism.

1:27:45

And so, it's

1:27:47

interesting to talk to you

1:27:49

because it looks to me like you're someone who's come

1:27:51

to believe in the devil, but not in God. And I did

1:27:53

make allusion to that earlier. And I'm

1:27:56

not, by the way, rendering judgment

1:27:58

on that one way or another. But,

1:28:00

you're also seeing that

1:28:02

there is a religious element to this cult-like

1:28:05

move that you're opposing. And you

1:28:07

might ask yourself, and I suspect you

1:28:09

probably do, is that, well, what's the alternative

1:28:11

to that?

1:28:13

You know, and what I've seen is that

1:28:15

the kind of humanism that's been put forward

1:28:18

as a moral alternative by the humanist

1:28:20

types, and they're generally atheistic, has

1:28:22

proved to be not only

1:28:24

a

1:28:25

force that's absolutely 100%

1:28:27

unable to stop this tide of

1:28:30

strange polytheistic paganism, but

1:28:32

has actually enabled it.

1:28:34

You know, and that does beg the question, well, what do you

1:28:36

have as a replacement? Your replacement

1:28:38

today was, you know, you rely on

1:28:41

your,

1:28:42

you said on your instincts, you know, and

1:28:44

your intrinsic sense of what's right

1:28:46

and what's wrong, and you let that guide you. And, you

1:28:48

know, that works out pretty well

1:28:50

if you're well-constituted and your moral

1:28:52

sentiments are

1:28:54

properly, what,

1:28:56

functioning properly in the absence

1:28:58

of too much delusion.

1:29:00

But, you

1:29:01

know, it's not a reliable

1:29:03

source for people who are unbelievably and deeply

1:29:06

confused. And so we're all going

1:29:08

to have to contend with the question of what

1:29:10

is it that we should believe

1:29:12

as an alternative to this

1:29:14

strange cult-like

1:29:17

narcissistic nonsense that seems to be

1:29:19

spread,

1:29:20

threatening us on all fronts. So

1:29:23

what's next for you? Sorry, maybe

1:29:26

you have some comments about that.

1:29:27

Well, I just think about the religion.

1:29:30

I'm not so stupid

1:29:32

that I don't acknowledge that I was brought up

1:29:34

in a country that

1:29:36

was religious, certainly

1:29:38

in my formative years. And I do think

1:29:41

the lack of religion and common purpose

1:29:43

and community that I

1:29:45

think religion and faith brings, I

1:29:48

do think when there is

1:29:50

a vacuum created, then we

1:29:52

do fill it with some pretty terrible

1:29:54

things. So I wonder

1:29:57

if after all this chaos, people will be

1:29:59

looking for... or a very prescriptive religion,

1:30:01

and I wonder if Islam will be the thing that

1:30:04

slots very happily into that place,

1:30:07

because it does give people order, and

1:30:09

I just think that what comes after

1:30:11

no boundaries, and I think people will

1:30:13

be looking for really clear, concise boundaries

1:30:16

to keep them safe, because we are gonna end up in

1:30:18

a place where we don't feel very safe, because not

1:30:21

even the ground that we stand upon will feel particularly

1:30:24

solid. So I've

1:30:27

got a lot of very religious friends who tell

1:30:29

me that I'm the most Christian, atheist

1:30:32

they've ever met. And

1:30:36

I'll probably end up being some sort of evangelical

1:30:39

pastor before my days on this earth.

1:30:41

Probably,

1:30:41

yeah, you'll end up canonized. That

1:30:44

would be good revenge on you, that's

1:30:46

for sure. That'd be God's little joke for you.

1:30:48

Yeah, so, well look, we're kinda

1:30:50

running out of time here on this front. For everybody

1:30:53

watching and listening, I'm gonna flip over to the Daily

1:30:55

Wire Plus platform and continue

1:30:57

to talk to Kelly and get to know her a little bit better,

1:31:00

walk her through her biography so that I can,

1:31:03

and everyone listening can understand where she's

1:31:05

coming from and why. And so if you'd

1:31:07

be inclined to join us there, that

1:31:09

you'd be more than welcome, of course, and that would also

1:31:12

give you the opportunity to support the Daily Wire,

1:31:14

which you really might wanna think about doing, especially

1:31:16

because at the moment, all the people

1:31:19

who are participating in that venture are under

1:31:21

pretty sustained attack from YouTube

1:31:24

and the Google puppet masters that are behind it.

1:31:27

God only knows what sort of weird radicals are,

1:31:29

you know, nested in the crevices

1:31:31

of that organization. And that's become

1:31:33

rather dire

1:31:34

recently. I'm sure the discussion

1:31:36

I have with Kelly here is gonna be banned by

1:31:39

YouTube, but probability that's really high

1:31:41

because YouTube banned my

1:31:43

discussion with Helen Joyce. And of course,

1:31:45

Helen Joyce is, you know, just

1:31:48

a journalist for The Economist and a very well-regarded

1:31:50

person, so what the hell does she know? So

1:31:53

the probability that this talk will

1:31:55

disappear

1:31:56

upon its emergence is quite high, and

1:31:59

the probability that...

1:31:59

my YouTube channel is gonna go up in flames

1:32:02

and the next year is also quite high. So anyways,

1:32:05

having said all that, you might wanna give

1:32:07

some consideration to lending some support

1:32:09

to the Daily Wire Plus platform because they're

1:32:11

at least somewhat of an alternative. I know

1:32:13

they're made out of reprehensible conservatives

1:32:16

and, you know, fascists of all stripes,

1:32:18

but compared to the woke mob and

1:32:20

their carnivorous motivations, I

1:32:22

think they're

1:32:23

quite preferable. So you

1:32:26

could join Kelly and I on the Daily Wire Plus platform

1:32:28

if you were inclined to it. Kelly, thank you very

1:32:30

much for agreeing to talk to me today.

1:32:33

I appreciate that very much. And it's

1:32:35

good that you had an opportunity to share your experiences

1:32:37

with everybody who's watching and listening. And good

1:32:40

luck. I hope the bloody tooth

1:32:43

mob stays the hell away from you and

1:32:46

it allows you to continue what you're doing.

1:32:48

And, you know,

1:32:50

we'll talk about that a little bit more when we go over

1:32:52

to the Daily Wire Plus side.

1:32:54

Thank you so much for having me. It was an absolute

1:32:56

pleasure.

1:32:59

All right.