0:14

Hello everyone. I have the opportunity today

0:16

to speak with Eva Wladingerbroek and Anthony

0:18

Lee. Eva is a

0:20

political commentator from the Netherlands. She

0:23

was integrally involved in the Dutch

0:25

farmer protests in recent

0:27

years and has recently been with

0:30

the German farmers and truckers and

0:32

dock workers and railway workers who've

0:34

basically brought Germany to its knees

0:36

in the last weeks, even

0:39

though you may not have seen much

0:41

of that in the so-called legacy media

0:44

circles. Anyways, I

0:46

talked to Eva today and to Anthony

0:48

about just exactly what's been happening in

0:50

Germany and the Netherlands and many other

0:53

European countries as well, with

0:55

regards to these essentially populist

0:57

uprisings similar, say, to the

1:00

trucker convoy in Canada. We

1:02

discussed the scope of that movement,

1:04

who was involved by

1:07

group, the aims,

1:09

the consequences, and the likely

1:12

outcomes on the German

1:14

and broader European political front in the

1:17

upcoming years and beyond. Join

1:19

us for that. So

1:21

where are you, Eva, and what are you doing? I'm

1:24

in Berlin right now in Germany, and I've

1:26

been on the road here in Germany all

1:28

over the country for the past seven days,

1:30

because for the past seven days, the

1:33

country has witnessed some of the largest

1:35

farmers protests that Germany has ever seen.

1:38

And this protest wasn't actually just

1:40

joined by farmers, but was a

1:43

what I would call massive uprising

1:45

of blue-collar workers, ordinary

1:47

citizens, people who are

1:50

just fed up with the German federal

1:52

government, people that are fed up feeling

1:54

like they have no right to exist,

1:56

being taxed into oblivion and

1:59

just wanted to make a fair and say, we're

2:01

done with you guys. That was the general

2:03

sentiment that I've witnessed around here. And

2:06

I've been reporting on it. I've been going out

2:08

on the roads with the farmers cheering them on. And

2:11

on the first day, on Monday

2:13

last week, I was on the A2, which

2:15

is the busiest highway in Europe, where

2:17

I met former Anthony Lee, who was sitting right

2:20

beside me, who was part of the organization. And

2:23

they conducted one of the largest roadblocks

2:25

of the highway there. I

2:28

mean, I have ever seen, but I think Germany has ever seen.

2:31

And this was a roadblock that went on for

2:33

kilometers, miles and miles on end. And I can

2:36

still get emotional thinking back

2:38

on it, because it really reminded me of

2:40

the Dutch farmers' protests and even the Canadian

2:43

freedom convoy. At a

2:45

certain point, we saw all the

2:48

tractors going onto the road, because the truckers,

2:50

the German truckers, came to help them block

2:52

the road. And it was just the most

2:54

massive thing that I've seen in a

2:56

while. And so I met this

2:58

hero, the man who's sitting right next to me, former

3:01

Anthony Lee, right there. And now we are

3:03

in Berlin, because today was the grand finale of

3:06

the protest of the past week. And

3:08

he actually spoke today on stage at

3:10

the Brandenburgetur, next to the federal government,

3:14

to tell the German government who's boss,

3:16

essentially. So,

3:18

Anthony, why is

3:20

it that you're involved in this? I'd like

3:22

you to speak personally first. What

3:24

is it that has disrupted your life

3:27

to the point where you're

3:29

willing to use your

3:31

valuable time, energy and machinery to

3:34

engage in political activity

3:36

and protest instead of doing what farmers usually

3:38

do, which is like working 16 hours a

3:40

day. So how long have you been doing

3:42

this? And exactly what's going on as far

3:44

as you're concerned? Let's make it

3:46

personal to begin with. Well, yeah,

3:48

thank you, first of all, for having us on the

3:50

show. It's a great pleasure. Well,

3:53

personally, I'm just afraid of

3:55

the future. A future for my

3:57

kids. I have three kids. Like

4:01

I think every other farmer on this world,

4:03

they want the next generation to carry on doing

4:05

the job, which has been going

4:08

on through dozens of generations in some

4:10

of our cases in Germany. I know

4:12

friends who are in the 15th, 16th

4:15

generation. And now we have

4:17

a policy, not only now actually, I would say

4:19

the last 10, 15 years, we

4:21

have a policy in Germany and all

4:25

over Europe actually, which is especially

4:29

not farmers friendly to be polite.

4:32

And we started in 2019 with around about 15,000 tractors who

4:39

came to Berlin to start

4:41

this protest. And we've

4:44

been carrying on the

4:46

last four years. We spoke

4:48

to politicians on all levels.

4:51

And since two years, the

4:53

last two years, we have a,

4:55

I would say green dictated government

4:58

in Germany, which is

5:00

making life actually not

5:03

only complicated, complicated for us farmers

5:05

or for like, if I said,

5:08

the ordinary workers, the blue collar workers. So

5:11

yeah, this is why we

5:14

started on the 18th of December last

5:17

year with a new massive

5:19

protest. And this is special

5:21

now because all organizations

5:24

are united like they've never

5:26

been. And we

5:28

are standing together against

5:30

this kind of policy. And like

5:32

if I said today was one

5:34

of the, I'd

5:36

say it was even bigger than 2019. I

5:39

don't have the numbers, but I came

5:41

to Berlin this morning and I passed, I

5:44

would say probably 15, 20 kilometers long.

5:49

Well, yeah. Con

5:51

voice of truck

5:53

drivers, farmers. And this

5:55

was only from one direction to Berlin. And

5:58

we came from all over. the

6:00

old directions and many didn't even make it

6:03

into the city because it was packed. Okay,

6:06

so there's a bunch of mysteries there to unpack

6:08

and the first thing I'd like

6:10

to know and that everybody who's watching and

6:12

listening needs to know is what exactly has

6:16

what green policies in particular like

6:18

why do you characterize the policies

6:20

as green first and then what

6:23

green policies are making your

6:25

life as a farmer and farmers

6:27

lives in general untenable. Why

6:31

is it having the impact that it's having? Provide

6:33

me with some details about what it is that

6:35

you're facing. Well

6:38

our European government the

6:41

last years I'd say they came

6:43

up with ideas of

6:45

a green deal they call it a green

6:47

deal and everything which you pronounce

6:50

green is supposed to be something

6:52

good and

6:54

nobody really wants to ruin

6:57

the environment. Everybody wants to protect the environment

7:00

which is good don't get me wrong but

7:03

I'd say it's kind of an agenda to get

7:07

rid of us like we

7:10

saw in Holland the last

7:12

two years and we

7:14

have a thing in Europe

7:17

and the European Union which is a

7:19

part of the green deal they call

7:21

it farm to fork strategy and

7:23

it's four things you have to remember

7:25

or know about this strategy. 10% of

7:28

the whole European

7:31

farmland they want to

7:34

get out of use so we're

7:36

not allowed to use anymore. I

7:38

mean 10% of Europe which is

7:41

kind of quite a lot. 50%

7:43

of plant protection chemical plant production

7:45

they want to cut down 50%

7:47

I don't know how they made

7:50

up this number but it's a hell of a

7:52

lot. It's like if you go to a doctor

7:54

and the doctor is only allowed to use 50%

7:57

of the medication it's ridiculous because we

7:59

need medication. for our plants,

8:02

which is actually totally normal.

8:04

And then they want us to have 25%

8:06

of the European Union, the

8:09

farmland, only to used

8:11

by organic farming, which

8:15

I don't really have a problem with

8:17

organic farming, but you use the double

8:19

of space or land, or

8:22

you only harvest 50% if

8:24

you're lucky. And

8:28

this fourth thing, what was

8:30

the fourth thing? I

8:33

think I would have met him. Well, I mean, I

8:36

think what's important to know is that

8:38

just like with the Dutch farmers' protest,

8:40

we have, there is a sort of

8:42

a structure to the attack on farming

8:44

that isn't just on a national level,

8:46

there's definitely, as you said, there is

8:48

a European Green Deal that we're working

8:50

with, which is pushed forward by unelected

8:52

bureaucrats, in this case, forgive

8:55

me, but a Dutch man from Simmermans,

8:57

who is the mastermind or the evil

9:00

mastermind, I would say, behind the European

9:02

Green Deal. And then in every national

9:04

country, there is a different set of policies

9:06

that is used to target the specific farming

9:09

groups. So in the Netherlands, when

9:11

we last talked, Jordan, about the

9:13

farmers' protest there, I told

9:15

you that it was about nitrogen. The

9:18

courts ruled in the Netherlands that we

9:20

are facing a nitrogen crisis. They are

9:22

using European legislation for that to get

9:25

rid of our farmers. And

9:27

here in Germany, what the

9:29

mainstream will tell you was the main

9:31

reason why the farmers now were particularly

9:33

angry or what sparked these protests

9:35

was the elimination of

9:38

tax breaks on agricultural diesel.

9:41

And the backstory to that is that the

9:43

German government doesn't have their

9:45

finances in check and has a

9:47

huge hole in their budget and

9:50

was also trying to fill that

9:52

gap. And they said, well, let's

9:55

go after what they call chemo-scientific

9:57

rights as a concern.

10:00

So, climate unfriendly subsidies.

10:04

And so they said we need to

10:06

cut back on the tax break that

10:08

the farmers get for agricultural diesel, which

10:10

those taxes normally only involve diesel

10:13

for people who go out on the road.

10:15

That's what that tax is for. And farmers

10:18

obviously just use it on their own land.

10:20

So the fact that they came after the

10:22

farmers now and tried to fill

10:25

their own gap in their own

10:27

budget due to their own mismanagement,

10:29

and they target now the people that

10:31

provide us with our daily meals, that

10:33

initially sparked a lot of anger. But

10:36

I would say, and I think you would probably agree with me,

10:38

Anthony, is that there is a

10:41

general sentiment within the German population

10:43

that was very much reflected at

10:45

these protests of just feeling like

10:48

the German government and not just

10:50

the German government, also the Dutch

10:52

government and European Union is constantly

10:54

acting contrary to the interests of

10:56

ordinary people who in fact pay

10:58

their salaries because they are taxed

11:01

already into oblivion. So

11:03

the general theme that

11:05

we constantly heard there was a slogan

11:08

basically saying, the government needs to go. This

11:11

wasn't just about these tax breaks. This was

11:13

really a general dismay,

11:16

great dismay with the

11:18

federal German government and the policies

11:20

that they stand for. So

11:22

Eva, let me ask you about that in more

11:24

detail then, Anthony. I'll go right back to you. When

11:29

the truck protest in Canada

11:32

emerged, there were, while there

11:34

were all sorts of idiot rumors, many

11:36

of them spread by the federal government,

11:38

that this was like a MAGA-style January

11:40

6th insurrection, and it was funded by

11:42

MAGA Republicans, which is about the stupidest

11:45

thing I can possibly imagine, or even

11:47

by Russians. But underneath that there was

11:49

a fear, you might say, as

11:52

well as manipulation, there was a fear that

11:54

this sort of popular uprising was

11:57

anti-democratic in its fundamental essence. when

12:00

you say things like the government has

12:02

to go, I'm wondering how the two

12:04

of you reconcile the fact, and

12:06

you can help me straighten this out, reconcile the

12:08

fact that Germany is led by

12:11

a democratically elected government, and

12:13

yet these massive protests are emerging with the

12:15

proposition that the government has to go. And

12:18

the question is, in a democracy, what does

12:20

it mean that the government

12:22

has to go, and how do you see what's

12:25

happening on the protest front in Germany acting

12:28

in a manner that's commensurate with democratic

12:30

principles? Ava, maybe you can start

12:32

that. Right. Well, I feel like it

12:34

couldn't be more democratic what we are

12:36

seeing right now, because you are seeing

12:39

people exercising their democratic rights to protest

12:41

against the government that doesn't represent their

12:43

interests anymore. I think the general support

12:45

for the government has sunk to about

12:48

30%, according to the polls here,

12:50

right? So there are people in power right

12:52

now who have been in power for the

12:54

past two and a half years, who were

12:56

elected by the German people, of course, democratically

12:58

speaking, but who have, I

13:01

would say, messed up so majorly that they've

13:03

lost the support of the people. And that's

13:05

exactly the opinion that those people have now

13:08

gone out to voice, and at

13:10

their own expense, because I mean, like you

13:12

said, farmers are hands-on people that absolutely do

13:14

not want to spend time away from their

13:16

farms usually, because they simply can't afford it.

13:18

And the fact that they've now gone out

13:20

in such large numbers to protest and make

13:22

use of their democratic rights, to me, this

13:24

is the epitome of democracy. And what

13:27

you see is that instead of celebrating

13:29

that, the mainstream media, exactly the way

13:31

that you described the Canadian process, they

13:33

are now saying, well, this is an

13:36

insurrection. These are people that are in

13:38

democratic, this is extremely far right,

13:40

you know, that's the they constantly step the

13:42

far right movement on it. And especially in

13:45

Germany, in The historical context

13:47

of this nation, that label holds a

13:49

lot of power. I Mean, we all

13:51

understand why, right? So Being called far

13:54

Right is not something that you want

13:56

in Germany, but it's been overused by

13:58

the mainstream media. Media establishment So

14:01

much so that through these

14:03

people feel like. Most. Whatever

14:05

and then I'll be labeled far

14:07

right But I apparently they have

14:09

nothing to lose more weight so

14:11

I ended his last More to

14:13

me that and but I understand

14:15

why they're doing it, that they're

14:17

trying to label these people as

14:19

extremists when all what all at

14:21

the I seen are people who

14:23

are just fed up with not

14:25

be heard who actually once mirror

14:28

democratic legitimation to. The government.

14:30

They want to be represented by the

14:32

people in power and a few notches

14:34

on one said Allen Heard they feel

14:36

like they are being certain in their

14:38

existence. They are. They feel like they

14:40

are ruled, That people were essentially hate

14:42

them and so. That's all

14:44

I've seen posts to seen. Ordinary

14:46

hardworking people were fed up and.

14:49

Came to exercise a democratic rights. Anthony

14:52

Aber makes for to smirked. You.

14:55

Have to have a fair bit of

14:57

goal or desperation. In. Germany.

14:59

To. Ally yourself with a movement that's

15:02

been pilloried. As. Far right, not

15:04

least because of the historical precedence about

15:06

some and olds who for Germany and

15:09

folks are wondering how you regard yourself

15:11

politically and and maybe who are you

15:13

regard. The. Majority of the people

15:15

who are involved in this protest politically.

15:18

What one set of descriptors do you

15:20

think? Might reasonably be applied

15:22

to them and. Why is it

15:24

that you decided that you were to overcome

15:26

the risk associated with being tarred with the

15:29

far right brush to continue the pursuit? That

15:31

to continue the protests that you have been

15:33

engaged? Yeah, Well.

15:36

As a my puzzler advantages of but

15:38

other than half British my mother was

15:40

in the British military. So.

15:42

I mean I was born, is your name and

15:44

race in Germany and the woods gym school. But

15:47

I'm I'm I'm I'm not afraid of the. Typical

15:50

rights erm, more agenda days

15:53

they are trying to do.

15:55

I'm. Force. is

15:57

for seed in germany but many people

15:59

still Actually, it's getting less now

16:01

because the media

16:04

has overdone it and

16:07

people don't really care anymore. You

16:10

asked about our government.

16:13

I mean, this government has

16:15

been in charge for more than two years. Germany

16:19

is one of the economic

16:21

motors, I'd say, the biggest

16:23

in Europe. We

16:27

are the only country, industry,

16:30

the industry of the country, which has

16:32

a negative growth in

16:34

Germany. I mean, they even try to make that nice.

16:37

It's ridiculous. I mean, how can you have a

16:39

negative growth? They

16:42

blame it on Putin, on

16:45

Russia, on the environment, whatever.

16:48

It's all house-made because this

16:51

country is one of

16:53

the, and was one of the

16:55

wealthiest countries in Europe and in

16:57

the world. They

17:00

managed to ruin our economy in

17:04

less than two years. I mean, they switched

17:06

off the most efficient

17:08

and safest nuclear power

17:10

plants on the world. This

17:13

is all because the Green Party in

17:15

Germany, that was their main goal since

17:18

the early 80s. They

17:21

managed that. From the

17:23

day we switched off these super-efficient

17:26

nuclear power plants, we

17:28

have to beg for

17:30

electricity, especially

17:35

in France, which is mostly

17:38

a nuclear power plant in any way.

17:42

You can carry it on with so many things. We

17:45

are reducing our best

17:48

industry in the world, I'd say, our

17:50

car industry. They

17:54

are losing, what's the right word for

17:57

it, contact to the... Japanese

18:01

cars and so on.

18:03

And people see that and people

18:05

lose money. Our inflation rate is the

18:07

highest in Europe and it's not going

18:09

down. And you

18:11

cannot say it's Russia

18:14

to blame or anybody else. If all the countries

18:16

around you are having growth, even

18:18

the UK has growth, even

18:20

though everybody said in Germany, well, now

18:22

after Brexit, they will get poor. And

18:26

it's not the case. So

18:28

people see that and even

18:32

like Eiffel said, every worker

18:34

has to pay more and earns

18:36

less. So that's

18:39

why it's turned and

18:41

there's so many people who are

18:44

set up of this government. So

18:47

I've observed a variety of

18:49

things. First of all, it's not easy to get

18:51

coverage of the protest in Germany on

18:55

legacy media. It's as if really nothing is going

18:57

on. And it's a strange

18:59

thing because watching you guys from

19:02

the outside, and I

19:04

think the same is probably true of what's happening

19:06

in Spain and what's happening in Poland. It's so

19:08

minimized and invisible that the only place that I've

19:10

really been able to track it is Twitter. And

19:13

so that makes it seem in some

19:16

real sense that it's conspiratorial thinking even

19:18

to admit to the fact that it's happening at all.

19:21

So we've outlined, but it

19:23

is happening and we've outlined

19:25

some of the causes. We've

19:28

noted that it's happening in

19:30

many countries, Canada, the Netherlands,

19:32

Spain, Poland, Germany, and we'll

19:34

continue to do so. We've

19:36

outlined the fact that there

19:38

are factors at work. So

19:40

it's an overarching, bureaucratically imposed,

19:42

top-down, hypothetically green agenda that's

19:45

aiming to make a moral

19:47

virtue out of the so-called

19:49

degrowth that's indistinguishable from economic

19:51

failure and catastrophic guidance.

19:54

And that's now being touted as a moral

19:56

virtue which will do nothing but impoverish

19:58

poor people and make them unbelievable. unbelievably

20:00

desperate and reliant on places

20:02

like China and India that will take the

20:04

forefront and the leadership in industrial development and

20:07

very rapidly if we don't get our act

20:09

together. Now you guys have noticed,

20:11

now some evidence for that I would say

20:13

for what we're laying out as the causes

20:15

can be seen in the fact that as

20:18

you guys pointed out, it's not just the

20:20

farmers in Germany that are

20:23

part and parcel of this latest protest.

20:26

Ava, can you give us some

20:28

insight into how widespread the

20:30

participation has been and what

20:32

other groups of primarily working

20:35

class is my understanding,

20:37

what other primary working class

20:40

groups have become involved and

20:42

at what scale? Right,

20:44

yeah. Well, so let me paint the picture again of

20:46

the moment where we met on the A2. We

20:50

actually walked alongside the farmers

20:52

on their tractors on a

20:54

dark side road next to the highway where

20:56

it was almost like a thief in the

20:58

night. They were trying to make their way

21:00

onto the highway which obviously is not easy

21:03

to do even in the early hours of

21:05

the morning and I thought to myself, how

21:07

are they going to manage this? How are

21:09

these tractors going to make their way onto

21:11

the highway with all these cars passing by?

21:14

Because from the corner of my eye, I saw

21:16

a huge convoy rocking

21:18

up of these truckers

21:21

who all had joined the protest and made

21:23

sure that the road was safe for the

21:25

farmers to go onto. That

21:28

really moved me. That was such a special

21:31

moment to witness. My video on Twitter, you

21:33

can hear me scream, enjoy

21:36

an excitement because it was such a

21:38

true moment of solidarity from this one

21:40

group in society to the other. At

21:43

the protest itself, We saw

21:45

the truckers were there, the farmers were

21:48

there, all sorts of blue-colored workers, but

21:50

also citizens in their cars who

21:52

either were there on purpose because

21:54

they wanted to support the farmers

21:56

or who got stuck in traffic. but

21:58

who we asked? Do

22:01

you mind being stuck here and I? I

22:03

kid you not like nine or ten times

22:05

The relic? Absolutely not. I don't mind. I

22:07

know exactly why these people are protesting and

22:10

I agree with them so that the supports

22:12

was huge and even going around. That

22:14

the protest looking at the signs of

22:17

people were holders know there's a as as

22:19

nice word is or admit sons of

22:21

that you are Jesse would translate into

22:23

the the middle class you know the

22:25

working class. The class I

22:27

would say is the possibly

22:29

be obliterated by the globalist

22:31

agenda or under. The under

22:33

the pretext Since this this green. You.

22:36

Know green narrowly narrowly virtually

22:39

sea. Level. I mean.

22:41

Utopia that they're that they're trying

22:43

to impose on us which obviously

22:45

is a a dystopian world if

22:47

you look at the consequences and

22:49

but so diminished on said the

22:51

middle class the hard ordinary people

22:54

that indeed has become increasingly poor

22:56

as a result of conscious choices

22:58

that were made by an elitist

23:00

government's a globalist governments that do

23:02

not have the best interest of

23:04

the people at heart and actively

23:06

work against an interest. I would

23:08

say that was the death the.

23:11

General image that I got, I felt

23:13

like we are witnessing. A

23:15

An uprising of ordinary,

23:17

hardworking, Citizens who are been granted

23:20

by the mainstream media on rightfully so

23:22

as far right extremists when in fact

23:24

all they want is just. You.

23:26

Know to be able to exist, provide

23:28

for their families, and do their job

23:30

without being. Crushed by bureaucracy

23:33

Without being crushed by taxes, without

23:35

being crushed by derogatory labels. You know

23:37

that? Deplorable. So as Hillary Clinton called

23:39

them, those were the people that were

23:42

out on the street and I would

23:44

say that they were everything but deplorable.

23:46

Say yes. I think my house.

23:48

For you, You know I know, I know where my. food

23:51

comes from and i'm very sad

23:53

that the people in power seem

23:55

to have either forgotten it or

23:57

and this is rbc desensitized take

23:59

it know exactly where

24:01

food comes from, but want to be able

24:03

to control it in such a manner that

24:06

they then also can exercise control over the

24:08

general population. And I think that that's ultimately

24:11

the goal behind the

24:13

climate agenda and using the the

24:17

green deal and all of these ideas as

24:19

a pretext in order to gain control over

24:22

people's lives. And they're creating crises to do

24:24

it. Because if you have

24:26

a population that is dependent on you for

24:28

their food, as they

24:30

can't eat, you know, what is a better way than

24:33

that? Jake Knapp is

24:35

the inventor of the design sprint and

24:37

the New York Times best-selling author of

24:39

the book Sprint. He's also the co-founder

24:41

of Character, a venture fund for early

24:43

stage startups. How and why did you

24:45

start using Nero? I came from

24:48

this position of thinking I don't want to

24:50

be doing stuff online to thinking now when

24:52

I do a sprint in person with a

24:54

company, it's like we're going to use Nero

24:56

even though we're all in the same room

24:58

because that's a better way for us to

25:00

get this work done. As an investor, we're

25:02

basically investing in their ability to solve problems.

25:04

We're saying we think this group of people

25:06

is going to be able to solve a

25:08

problem in a really great way and create

25:10

value by doing it. And actually you need

25:13

to give people the tools that can help

25:15

them make decisions, help them collaborate, help them

25:17

visualize and see things in a different way.

25:19

And Nero does all those things. So to

25:21

me at least as an investor I'm thinking

25:23

give the team the tools that are going

25:25

to help them think that are going to

25:27

make the most brighten their skills as smart

25:30

folks. And Nero is at the top of

25:32

that much. To

25:34

gain control over them. Yeah

25:37

well it seems it seems to me that it's

25:39

an easy move for

25:41

any given bureaucrat

25:44

to proclaim his or

25:46

her alliance with the planet,

25:48

this blessed mother nature, to

25:50

virtue signal in the

25:52

direction of a green agenda and to

25:54

thereby ratchet him or herself not only

25:56

up the moral hierarchy and pat themselves

25:59

on the back. but also to use

26:01

that as a means of advancing their

26:03

career, even in micro

26:05

steps. And then you

26:07

can imagine that the aggregate

26:09

consequence of that across the

26:11

entire bureaucratic class, able

26:14

to use this agenda as a

26:16

get out of jail free card

26:18

as an excuse and explanation for

26:20

every failure, we're only pursuing de-growth

26:23

because of the green agenda. You

26:25

can imagine that all of that

26:27

collective activity going on in the

26:29

background acts in a

26:32

quasi-conspiratorial manner to push this

26:34

agenda forward. And then just

26:37

so that we don't

26:39

assume that I'm only thinking

26:41

about quasi-conspiracies, I've

26:44

looked very carefully at the

26:46

so-called C40 consortium agenda. And

26:48

this is a consortium of some of

26:50

the 40 largest cities on

26:56

the globe, all allied

26:59

together at the level of local municipal

27:01

government who are literally pursuing

27:04

an agenda that includes no

27:07

more than three articles of clothing per citizen

27:09

per year, a 95% in private

27:11

car ownership, which

27:15

is why we're all being encouraged

27:18

to produce the electric cars that we won't

27:20

have enough electricity to run anyways because you

27:22

don't need electricity if you actually don't

27:24

get to own a car. And

27:26

if the goal is a 95% reduction in

27:28

private automobile ownership, then it doesn't

27:31

matter if there's no damn grid,

27:34

one short haul flight per person

27:36

every three years, which will completely,

27:39

obviously decimate the entire travel

27:41

industry plus all of the

27:43

tourism industry that Europe depends

27:46

on absolutely in all possible

27:48

manners. And

27:50

then overall, although this isn't directly from

27:52

the C40, the

27:55

fundamental goal of something approximating an 85% reduction

27:57

in... living

28:00

standards, which is the calculation of

28:02

the green virtuous globalist utopians as

28:04

to what's necessary in order for

28:06

us to inhabit a green

28:09

planet. And so all

28:12

of this means, to me, it means

28:14

not only are the bureaucrats who are

28:16

using this get out of jail free

28:18

card to advance their careers and the

28:21

conspiratorialists who are radically left using it

28:23

explicitly as an agenda. It also means

28:25

that the bloody radical leftists are 100%

28:28

willing to sacrifice the working class

28:31

on the poor to their ambition

28:33

and their green agenda. Now that

28:35

has backfired in the Netherlands. So

28:39

let's concentrate on that for a moment, Eva.

28:41

So the last time we

28:43

talked, it was in the

28:45

midst of the farmer protest in the

28:47

Netherlands, and that produced a genuine political

28:49

upheaval. Now, maybe you could lay out

28:51

for everybody what happened in the Netherlands,

28:54

what the situation is now and what

28:56

you think that implies for

28:58

the future of European political activist,

29:01

political action in general. Right.

29:03

Well, it what I think we can see,

29:06

or what happened in the Netherlands was we

29:08

had the last major farmers protests in March.

29:11

Right. And then right in March, at the

29:13

end of March, we had general elections, in

29:16

which the former citizens movement and new

29:18

a relatively new party got

29:21

a landslide victory. And then

29:23

about a month ago, we had general elections

29:26

for our parliament, in which the

29:28

PVV, which was originally branded as

29:30

the far right, again, we can

29:32

fill a bingo curt with this,

29:34

the far right party won a

29:37

staggering number

29:39

of seats for Dutch standards, at least people have

29:41

to understand we have a system

29:43

in which there are multi parties, you know, we

29:45

don't have a two party system, we have plenty,

29:47

and they always have to form a coalition. But

29:49

this party, the PVV, the far right party,

29:52

won about a fourth of all votes.

29:54

And now in the polls, they're even

29:56

looking at a third because they're only

29:58

rising in population. And I really

30:01

think that this farmers protest and that's why

30:03

I think it's so important what you guys

30:05

are doing here in Germany And that's why

30:07

I wanted to be there is

30:09

that these the farmers are

30:12

in the vancards of this

30:14

political change It's you

30:16

guys because you know anybody with a functioning

30:18

set of eyes and the brain cells No,

30:20

you know, we've talked to you we go

30:23

out on the streets And if you if

30:25

you actually see the people that go out

30:27

there you see that those are not extremists

30:29

Those are normal people and so

30:32

if you come after those if you come after

30:34

the people who provide you with food That's

30:36

something that I think most ordinary people

30:38

can't really comprehend It's like why would

30:41

you come after the people who provide

30:43

us with food? That doesn't make any

30:45

sense, you know And they

30:47

don't stand for that So I think that

30:49

the farmers uprising in the Netherlands has had

30:51

a great impact on our election

30:54

so much So now that yeah, the

30:56

the for right quote unquote has won

30:58

and obviously we're not out

31:01

of the woods yet Because we still

31:03

have to form a coalition But it

31:05

is a major political shift where I

31:07

feel like really something in the hearts

31:09

and minds of the people has changed

31:11

Where they're no longer afraid of the

31:14

usual intimidation tactics of the mainstream media

31:17

And and the establishment there, you know, they like

31:19

we said, we have nothing to lose anymore Do

31:22

you think Eva do you think there's a

31:24

danger? What

31:26

might be the danger if any of Normalization

31:30

of the so-called far-right agenda I mean there's

31:32

two ways of looking at this right because

31:34

one way is looking at it the way

31:36

you guys have been looking at It which

31:38

is that the terminology of

31:40

far-right itself has

31:42

been weaponized and now that weapon

31:45

is using it losing its potency

31:47

because Your claim fundamentally is

31:49

that it's been applied to the obvious

31:53

What would you say to those who are

31:55

obviously at the bedrock of society? and that

31:57

would be certainly the truckers and the farmers

31:59

like self-evidently. And if

32:02

truckers and farmers just going about

32:04

their business have become far right,

32:06

then the terminology itself loses its

32:08

meaning. But then you could also

32:10

say, well, there has been danger

32:12

in the past presented by the

32:15

far right. And the fact that

32:17

the term no longer has any

32:19

validity as a weapon also means

32:21

in principle that people who have

32:23

a genuinely far right agenda, such

32:25

as they are, can now use

32:27

this populist movement to their own

32:29

advantage to put forward their hypothetically

32:31

nefarious agenda. And so I'm

32:33

wondering, Eva, how you've worked

32:36

through those complexities in your own mind,

32:38

what you think far right means

32:40

now, and if you see any

32:43

dangers in this populist uprising, let's

32:45

say, and the transformation of the

32:47

political scene that's emerged in consequence.

32:50

Well, there are a few things to say

32:52

to that. I think indeed the one

32:54

danger that I could imagine is that

32:56

because this term is so overused and

32:58

has become so trivialized in that sense,

33:00

it's like, okay, if there is a

33:03

far right subgroup that wants to do all sorts

33:05

of evil things, then maybe we wouldn't

33:07

take it as seriously anymore because it's

33:09

so overused on ordinary people with valid,

33:12

you know, totally justified opinions.

33:15

I don't see them though. I don't

33:18

see them out on the streets. I don't meet

33:20

them. So what I have

33:22

personally done in my own life, you

33:24

know, I've had my fair share of

33:26

slander and the Dutch mainstream media when

33:28

I started out in my political career,

33:31

called me the shield maiden of the

33:33

far right. I was 23 when

33:35

that happened to me and I was terrified

33:37

because I thought to myself, well, okay, I

33:39

can forget a normal life. I can forget

33:41

ever having a job that Google never forgets.

33:43

So if somebody Googles you and the first thing you see about

33:46

you shield maiden of the far right, well, that's not good. But

33:48

I've now come to the conclusion that, you

33:51

know, there is no point in being afraid of

33:53

a label that doesn't actually apply to you. So

33:55

I just kind of run with it now. It's

33:58

in my bio on on X. because

34:00

I think it's funny and I want to show to

34:02

other people, don't be intimidated

34:04

by people who use that label

34:06

to silence you. Because nowadays, to

34:08

me, what I find is that

34:10

they put far right on just

34:12

about anybody who is somewhat right-wing

34:14

to the center, who has conservative

34:16

views, maybe doesn't cut their hair

34:18

short and dyed purple and scream,

34:20

destroy the patriarchy, people

34:23

who oppose mass immigration,

34:25

which clearly didn't have the best

34:27

effect on Europe, and

34:30

so if you have those, I would

34:33

say, completely legitimate, valid

34:35

opinions, you earn that title

34:37

nowadays with the mainstream media. So the best

34:39

thing you can do is stop caring, because

34:42

if you stop being afraid of it,

34:44

then they lose their power over you

34:46

and we can demand actual change, which

34:48

nowadays would be labeled as far right,

34:51

but 30 years ago would be just a

34:53

Christian democratic ideal. I've

34:55

certainly seen in Canada and

34:58

elsewhere that everything

35:01

right now definitely includes everything

35:04

that was even 10

35:06

years ago regarded as classically liberal,

35:09

and everything far right includes everything

35:11

that 10 years ago would have

35:13

been regarded even as moderately conservative.

35:17

And given that the radical left

35:19

actually occupies only about 7% of

35:21

the population, and

35:24

I think that's probably an overestimate,

35:26

that really means that 93% of

35:28

the population have been thrown in... By them,

35:31

by them, by the way, has

35:33

been thrown into the category either of

35:35

right or far right. Now, you would

35:37

think, Anthony, that this would be a

35:40

particularly significant problem in Germany, and

35:42

so the fact that ordinary people

35:45

have chosen to rise up nonetheless

35:48

in spite of being labeled with these

35:50

epithets indicates in all probability

35:52

that something of dead seriousness is going

35:54

on, and so what

35:56

is it that you guys who are protesting

35:59

want? What do you

36:01

think your protest has accomplished and where do

36:03

you think this is going in the immediate

36:05

and longer term future in this

36:08

rapidly de-industrializing and failing

36:10

German state? Well,

36:13

the first thing we want is just

36:16

politicians who have common sense.

36:18

It's very simple. Let

36:23

me just go back one thing about

36:25

this green agenda we have. In

36:27

Germany, everybody is trying to

36:29

get rid of CO2. So

36:32

CO2 is the worst thing that

36:34

will kill us. And we have

36:36

young people gluing themselves

36:38

onto the street, especially here

36:40

in Berlin, to

36:43

demonstrate that we have to cut down

36:46

on CO2. Otherwise,

36:48

they call themselves last generation.

36:50

Otherwise, we will die. It's

36:53

so silly. And the media is

36:55

honestly cutting down a

36:57

bit on it now, but it's still onto

37:00

it. And this is the main agenda, especially

37:03

to us farmers, because

37:05

we have to cut down on CO2. That's

37:07

why this green deal, these four things I

37:09

told you about, and especially

37:11

the main reason, whatever I just

37:14

described, to tax our diesel. And

37:18

I only live about 150 kilometers

37:20

away from Holland. In

37:22

Holland, or in Belgium, or in

37:24

France, they don't tax diesel

37:27

at all. So it's

37:29

an unfair thing for

37:31

us in Europe to compare. We can't

37:33

compete, obviously not. And

37:36

anybody should know that we

37:39

in Germany, our farmers, use

37:41

one liter diesel so

37:43

efficient, like nobody else can do it on this

37:45

planet. So

37:47

obviously, if we don't produce the

37:50

food, we will have to get it from

37:52

somewhere else. And we had a very good

37:54

passage last year in a very good way. the

38:00

Austrian newspaper and they said the green

38:02

deal from the European Union is a

38:05

bad deal for the planet because if

38:07

we do these things that I told

38:09

you a few minutes ago, we will

38:12

have to, we need

38:14

8 million hectares

38:17

somewhere else on the world to feed

38:20

us which will mean we

38:23

have to use big ships to

38:25

get the food to us, Germany, which is

38:27

bad for the environment because we will pollute

38:30

the air with CO2 which will kill us

38:32

and we will pour

38:35

people food away and

38:38

anybody who says, especially from the green party, who

38:40

says it's a good idea to do the green

38:42

deal, he should reflect himself

38:44

and think they can't be.

38:47

It's absolutely contrary to that

38:49

sense or that meaning we want to do, to

38:52

protect the planet, to get real

38:56

CO2. You do the opposite

38:58

by far and people more

39:00

and more realize this nonsense

39:03

we're doing and they

39:05

fed up a bit because it's costing us money, it's

39:07

costing us our economy

39:10

like I told you and I

39:12

mean it's the same. We cut down, I mean

39:14

we got a lot of gas

39:18

from Russia until the Ukraine war

39:20

and it was quite cheap for us which was

39:23

good for our economy. So we cut down, we

39:25

said, well, we don't want it anymore. By

39:28

the way, let me explain this so anybody from

39:31

outside Germany realize this, Spain,

39:33

for example, which is a member of the

39:36

European Union, imports double

39:38

the size of gas

39:40

from Russia than before

39:42

the Ukraine war. So,

39:44

which is silly because I mean we all have

39:46

the same rights in the European Union but we

39:49

and our government says, no, we don't want it

39:51

because we don't want to give Putin money.

39:54

And so even though I

39:56

live in a state which is

39:59

called Lower Saxony, it's It's in the middle of

40:01

Germany. We have gas, and

40:04

we could, frack, is it

40:06

fracking? We could, frack, we could

40:08

frack gas for

40:10

30 years for the German economy.

40:13

We don't want to do it because it's

40:15

bad for the environment. We rather buy

40:18

it from the US or from the Middle

40:20

East and pay five times

40:23

as much. Today we discuss Miro. Listen, when

40:25

it comes to running client workshops, the dream

40:27

of course is to get those creative juices

40:29

flowing. But typically what ends up happening is

40:32

thousands of hours get wasted because of poorly

40:34

facilitated meetings. So I have Maya with

40:36

me today. She's a consultant who runs Fortune

40:38

100 workshops from leadership training

40:40

to team building. And she has the insider

40:43

tip on what makes things work. Maya. Thank

40:45

you, Jason. I've been doing this a long

40:48

time. My number one tip is to bring

40:50

everyone into that visual collaboration platform. So

40:52

personally, I use Miro, and it's completely changed

40:54

how I interact with the room. You have

40:56

to give people a way to feel like

40:58

they're in the room even when they're not.

41:00

That's something you can do easily in Miro.

41:03

Otherwise they've seen the same slides in

41:05

format a thousand times. Falling asleep, eyes

41:07

glazing over, yawns, all that. Exactly. When

41:10

people follow me on the Miro board,

41:12

everyone is literally going on a journey

41:14

with me. We're adding thoughts, we're reacting,

41:16

and we're voting for the best ideas.

41:19

It's great. Connective magic, I like

41:21

it. That's miro.com. And

41:24

we are dependent on

41:28

governments from the Middle East or

41:31

from the America, from the United States. And

41:34

then we have to import it. So

41:39

silly, which is obviously bad for the

41:41

environment, but they say it's green. We're

41:45

doing the exact thing. And

41:47

it's just so- Well, so are

41:50

we in Canada. So Quebec,

41:52

the province of Quebec in Canada

41:54

has enough natural gas in Quebec

41:57

to supply all of Quebec for 200 years. or

42:00

the EU for 50 and

42:03

they refused to frack any of it because

42:05

fracking is so dangerous and by the way

42:07

I grew up in northern Alberta and they

42:09

had fracked there for like six

42:13

decades with no problem whatsoever

42:15

and so I know all

42:17

of that is absolute bloody

42:19

nonsense but the the advantages

42:21

of this green virtue signaling

42:23

at the local bureaucratic level

42:25

are so astounding that

42:27

all of this idiocy can pass

42:29

by as green legislation

42:31

even though it flies in the face

42:34

of both common sense and facts so

42:36

I know for a fact for

42:38

example that not only is Germany electricity

42:40

in Germany something approximating five times as

42:43

expensive as it should be which

42:45

given the dependence of industry and everything

42:47

else all of commerce on cheap energy

42:49

is a bloody catastrophe I know as

42:52

well that you guys are producing more

42:54

carbon dioxide and more waste per unit

42:56

of energy than you were ten years

42:58

ago because you shut down the bloody

43:00

nuclear plants and have substituted instead late

43:03

night burning coal plants

43:05

which is utterly insane so

43:08

just so that everybody watching and listening

43:10

is clear here not

43:12

only are these green policies devastating

43:15

to the working class and to the

43:17

poor and to the economic stability of

43:19

Europe as a whole and then to

43:21

the stability of the world in general

43:24

they are counterproductive by the standards put

43:26

forward by the green advocates themselves in

43:28

that as you pointed out well first

43:30

of all you have to import your

43:32

bloody power at a tremendously high cost

43:35

and then you're going to shut down

43:37

local production of food in

43:39

favor of imports and it was

43:41

only a few years ago that

43:44

all the green revolutionaries were jumping

43:46

up and down screaming screaming about the

43:48

fact that you should buy local exactly

43:51

to decrease the kind of

43:53

transportation costs that you're pointing

43:55

to and so it's such

43:57

a mystery because the The

44:00

policies that are being pursued don't even

44:02

suffice to service the

44:04

goals that are hypothetically trumpeted by

44:07

the formulators of the policies themselves.

44:09

It's a bloody miracle, a miracle

44:11

of stupidity and blindness. I've

44:13

given this so much thought because so many

44:15

people have asked me, why would they do

44:18

this? It doesn't make sense. Explain it. Why

44:21

would you come after the most

44:23

hardworking sector, the most lucrative sector,

44:25

the people that provide you with

44:27

food? Why would you shut down

44:30

your nuclear plants if you are too important electricity

44:32

for, I don't know how much more the price?

44:35

Why, why, why? And

44:37

I think it was Carl Jung actually who

44:39

said, if you can't understand someone's

44:41

actions, you have to look

44:43

at the consequences and infer the motive. And

44:46

that's what I've done with all of this. If

44:49

the consequences of their policies

44:51

are that we become poorer,

44:54

you know, we, not they

44:56

obviously, but we, if we

44:58

become poorer, we become more

45:00

dependent on them. We, you

45:03

know, we basically essentially would starve if

45:05

this is put through and we don't

45:07

have the financial means anymore to import

45:09

our food. And well,

45:12

I don't know, God forbid a disaster happens.

45:14

We've outsourced everything. You know, we could be

45:16

in real trouble. Well, if

45:18

those are the consequences, then apparently

45:20

that's the motive. Maybe we

45:22

have become too cynical, but I find

45:24

it very difficult to, to

45:27

explain it any other way because this is

45:29

not a one time mistake. You know, these

45:31

people are, this is a net zero scam

45:33

and I would really call it a scam

45:35

is something that they... It's a criminal scam.

45:37

Yes. Well, actually, yeah.

45:39

It's a criminal scam. It

45:42

is criminal. It is criminal. And I

45:44

think that it is the worst type

45:46

of injustice if a government and the

45:48

people are supposed to represent us, you

45:50

know, talking about democracy, liberal democracy and

45:52

all, and those people turn their backs

45:54

on their own population and not just

45:56

turn their backs, but actively again, go

45:59

against their interests. and allow them,

46:01

essentially, if things go wrong, to

46:03

become poor and to starve. And

46:06

I can't see, I see true evil behind these

46:08

acts. I

46:10

don't just see incompetence anymore. It's

46:13

worse than that Eva, it's worse than that even,

46:15

because I was speaking with

46:17

someone the other day, one of my

46:19

podcast guests, who said that their sampling

46:21

has indicated that young people now think

46:23

about climate apocalypse three or four times

46:26

a day. They're literally obsessed by it,

46:28

and we know perfectly well that that

46:30

demoralizing insistence that all human striving

46:33

is planet destroying, you know, patriarchal

46:35

ambition and has to be brought

46:37

to a halt, not only does

46:40

it risk economic catastrophe, really

46:43

right down to the fundamental level in the

46:45

way that we've been describing, but it's also

46:47

demoralized in the entire generation of people and

46:49

made them afraid, terrified, like Chicken

46:52

Little, that the sky is falling. Even

46:55

when the IPCC itself, who

46:58

are hypothetically the people that, you know, are

47:00

on top of the appropriate data, have indicated

47:03

nowhere in their documentation that we're

47:05

facing anything approximating a true emergency.

47:09

And so, well, and so that does

47:11

beg the question, as you said, you know,

47:13

just exactly what the hell is going on.

47:15

And I think that your method of inferring

47:17

the motivation is actually the case. I

47:19

think the proximal cause

47:22

is the fact that just as

47:24

in Nazi Germany, let's say that

47:26

any old mid-level bureaucrat

47:28

could ratchet himself up the hierarchy

47:31

by identifying, at least in principle,

47:33

with the overarching Nazi ideology. It's

47:36

absolutely the case with these bureaucrats

47:38

who bear no immediate

47:40

economic consequences for the idiocy of their

47:42

actions. If they

47:44

put forward this green agenda and they're

47:46

celebrated by the radiant piers for doing

47:48

so, that's definitely good in the immediate

47:50

present for their career development and

47:53

their, you know, their

47:55

self-aggrandizing moral proclamations

47:58

of the world. virtuous

48:00

self and in the aggregate we

48:02

get exactly this sort of thing.

48:04

Anthony, what consequences do you think

48:07

that these protests are going to

48:09

have, have had? Let's start with

48:12

that. What consequences have they had and

48:14

what do you think is going to

48:16

unfold? Because this is a relatively new

48:18

government in Germany and it isn't obvious

48:20

to me that it's going to fall

48:23

apart in consequence as the government in

48:25

the Netherlands did. Certainly the Canadian government

48:27

failed right through the Trucker protest

48:29

as if it never even happened and

48:31

the probability that Justin Trudeau is going

48:33

to rule with his velvet fist for

48:35

the next year appears to be extremely

48:38

high. So what do you think is

48:40

going to happen in Germany

48:42

as a consequence of these protests? Well

48:44

it's very hard to predict. The

48:47

government didn't learn its

48:49

lesson yet. That's obvious. We had

48:51

our finance minister on stage today

48:53

and it was obvious he didn't

48:55

learn anything about our actions

48:58

we did. But what

49:01

we already achieved is that we

49:03

are, like I said in the

49:05

beginning, so united like I honestly

49:07

never thought we could be. If

49:09

I said that, I mean, I would

49:11

say 80% and this is an

49:13

official poll of our mainstream media, 80%

49:16

says they are behind our

49:19

actions, behind our strike as

49:21

a protest and that's

49:24

amazing. That's honestly amazing, especially getting

49:28

in front of this agenda what we

49:30

were talking about and like I said

49:32

people are realizing that now and they're

49:34

realizing it for one reason. They believed

49:36

everything or most of them believed all

49:39

this agenda agreed we have to save

49:41

CO2 to save our lives and all

49:43

that nonsense. But now it's

49:45

costing them money. Everybody's paying for

49:47

this and we are paying a

49:49

big price and we didn't

49:51

talk about even I mean

49:54

with the war in Ukraine,

49:57

obviously Ukraine

49:59

produced a hell of a lot of

50:01

wheat and crop for the poorest in the world. And

50:04

if you look into where the wheat,

50:06

if it gets out of the Black

50:09

Sea region, goes to, it mainly goes

50:11

to European countries, Turkey and China. It

50:14

doesn't really go to Africa, where it should go. And

50:17

it comes to us. Poland,

50:21

Hungary, they said, we don't

50:23

want it. They shut their borders. So

50:25

it's coming straight through to Germany. The

50:29

Danish government only recently

50:32

checked if it's

50:34

contaminated with chemicals

50:38

which are not

50:40

allowed in the European Union. And they said,

50:42

yes, it is. So it's official. But

50:45

nobody cares. So we are

50:48

not getting the price. We should get for

50:50

our crop, our grains. And

50:53

we are getting overflown

50:55

by grains from the

50:57

Ukraine, which is really bad.

51:00

I mean, obviously it's bad. First of all,

51:03

poor countries aren't getting it. We can't get

51:05

rid of ours. And

51:07

the government's even paying some

51:10

parts of the transport to Germany.

51:13

So they are obviously using our tax

51:15

money to make

51:17

sure we get a bad price for our crop.

51:20

Well, I think we were already talking

51:22

about how demoralizing this agenda is. And

51:24

food, of course, if you

51:26

wanted to demoralize a people, I mean, it's

51:29

done by feeding them bad food as well.

51:31

I mean, Jordan, you know, I don't have

51:33

to tell you about this, but the importance

51:35

of good meat, of

51:37

healthy animal fats, it's

51:40

huge. And if you make people feel

51:42

like the only thing that they deserve

51:44

is bad, bad

51:47

meat or bugs, insects or

51:49

synthetic meats, you know, literally

51:52

food that will make you weak. I

51:56

Think that says something about our establishment.

51:58

It says something about our food. About

52:00

the way that we are governed, it said something

52:02

that the way that we are rules that we

52:04

are supposed to live. As. If

52:06

we are livestock. That it.

52:09

You know it can only eat

52:11

insects source or basically you know,

52:13

trash. and and who produce carbon

52:16

dioxide simply by breathing? Let's say,

52:18

I had produced Silva said produce children

52:21

who are a net burden on ecosphere

52:23

et cetera et cetera and stand wanted

52:25

travel and want to buy things, want

52:27

to have a standard of living? Yeah,

52:30

how dare you. One way that I

52:32

realize, absolutely absolutely absolutely winner. Yet when

52:34

everything you do does nothing but mock

52:36

up the planet and Martha future scared

52:38

is an absolutely bloody dismal, the of

52:41

humanity it's that's for sure, and bordering.

52:43

On murderous yeah it's it's malthusian to say

52:45

the least at I mean we're know we're

52:47

talking about where Yogi now But there was

52:49

an actual a headline not too long ago

52:52

in the press here in the Uk and

52:54

in Europe quoting a study that said that

52:56

Breezy causes climate change Now I have one

52:58

or masterclass is that that do you want

53:00

me to stop breathing Said that's the only

53:02

that's the only answer to the from then

53:04

raised so. It's a

53:07

yes is an absolute can

53:09

tell you know the the

53:11

the the human. Progress.

53:13

People have documented the fact that

53:15

every baby born will produce seven

53:18

times the economic resources that every

53:20

baby consumes. And. So the

53:22

idea that the historical average of

53:24

the moments the idea that more

53:26

people means more poverty, more environmental

53:28

degradation is not only ally it's

53:31

an anti truth. And here's another.

53:33

So not only so imagine first

53:35

of all his every babies consumed

53:37

more than it produce thinner than

53:39

people on average would starve and

53:41

on average. A. Far smaller proportion

53:43

of people are starving than has ever

53:45

been the case in the entire history

53:47

of the planets. Were going to pick

53:49

out at about nine billion and it's

53:51

crystal bloody clear that we could manage

53:53

that. And then there's going to be

53:55

a precipitous decline. That's the demographic outlook,

53:57

and that's within this century then here.

54:00

Oh. The. Idea that each person

54:02

born comes up produces less than they

54:04

consume is a complete bloody lights out

54:06

by a factor of seven. And then

54:09

here's the as. Here's the clincher. This

54:11

is. so this is so staggering. So

54:13

the best data indicates quite clearly that

54:15

if you can get poor people so

54:18

absolutely poor people, not relatively poor people,

54:20

so people in danger of food fridays

54:22

and lead saints and lacking opportunity for

54:25

their children's if you can get them

54:27

up to a point where they are

54:29

producing five thousand dollars. Us Gdp

54:31

per year, states immediately start to

54:34

take a medium and long term.

54:36

View. Of let's say environmental stability

54:38

and sustainability because they have enough wherewithal

54:41

and enough resources at their disposal so

54:43

that they don't have to be in

54:45

a perp in the permanent state of

54:48

crisis that incentivize as them to burn

54:50

up and consume everything around them. So

54:52

the best data indicates very very clearly

54:55

that if we drove energy prices down

54:57

or allowed them to decline as we

54:59

thought, if we used intelligent nuclear technology

55:02

for example, we could raise the planetary

55:04

standard of living said the point where.

55:06

Everybody locally would start to become

55:08

concerned about environmental issues and act

55:10

naturally in a manner that would

55:13

provide for a more sustainable world.

55:15

Instead, we're doing the opposite to

55:17

versus signal stupidly were cranking energy

55:19

prices up, claiming that all the

55:21

industrial activity has to cease making

55:23

poor people even poor at putting

55:25

them at risk of sets of

55:27

starvation. All that's going to do

55:29

as is already started to do

55:31

and Germany's is make both the

55:33

economy and the environment worse and

55:35

it's going to breed. Well, more more

55:37

uprising of the sort that we're seeing

55:40

everywhere. If you couldn't imagine a more

55:42

counter productive agenda, and say it again:

55:45

Counterproductive. Even by the standards

55:47

of the people who are hypothetically

55:49

putting the agenda forward, it's like,

55:51

why the hell would you oppose

55:53

nuclear power. That's utterly a

55:55

sane, especially in a place like Germany.

55:57

Especially when you drummond said as to

55:59

him. nuclear power from the

56:01

Scandinavians and the French. It's

56:04

so blind that it's a miracle.

56:08

It baffles me already that we live in

56:10

a time apparently where we have to justify

56:12

our existence with data. That's

56:14

something that deeply bothers me. It deeply

56:17

bothers me. No kidding. This

56:22

will, of course, lend me another label

56:24

in secular Europe, but

56:26

I think that the death of God

56:28

that you so often discuss as well

56:30

is ultimately the main reason for that.

56:33

If you forget that people have intrinsic

56:35

value because they are created in the

56:37

image of God, and they're

56:39

just a number and we have to work to

56:41

net zero and we need to now see if

56:43

you add something or take

56:45

too much and you have to justify

56:48

your own existence by quoting scientific studies,

56:50

I think we've got off the road

56:52

man. Are we China

56:57

now? Is that what we are? These people

56:59

have their mouths full constantly. They're always talking

57:01

about human rights here and there. But now

57:03

we have come to a point where we

57:05

have to justify our entire existence to our

57:08

own overlords. And I'm not okay with it. Today

57:12

we discuss Miro. Listen, when it comes to

57:14

running client workshops, the dream of course is

57:16

to get those creative juices flowing, right? But

57:19

typically what ends up happening is thousands of

57:21

hours get wasted because of poorly facilitated meetings.

57:23

So I have Maya with me today. She's

57:25

a consultant who runs Fortune 100 workshops from

57:28

leadership training to team building and she has

57:30

the insider tip on what makes things work.

57:33

Maya. Thank you Jason. I've been doing this

57:35

a long time. My number one tip is

57:37

to bring everyone into that visual collaboration platform.

57:40

So personally I use Miro and it's

57:42

completely changed how I interact with the

57:44

room. You have to give people a

57:46

way to feel like they're in the

57:48

room even when they're not. That's something

57:50

you can do easily in Miro. Otherwise

57:52

they've seen the same slides in format

57:54

a thousand times. Falling asleep, eyes glazing

57:56

over, yawns, all that. Exactly. When people follow

57:58

me on the Miro The Board. Everyone

58:00

is literally going on a journey with

58:03

me. we're adding stars, were reacting and

58:05

were voting for the best ideas. It's

58:07

great to next of magic the like

58:09

it says miro.com there are not okay.

58:12

I'm not okay with it either. And

58:14

the whole Mail Thursday and the whole

58:16

mail. Susie and Proposition. So let's walk

58:18

through that a second. So that's a

58:21

biological metaphor, so let's just walk through

58:23

that a minute just to show exactly

58:25

how wrong it is. Okay,

58:27

So now there's lots of situations in

58:30

which the use of biological metaphors can

58:32

shed light on human nature, and even

58:34

the nature of human. What?

58:37

Would you say striving and thriving? So.

58:40

Psychologists used most marvelous all the time.

58:42

And that's partly because the neurochemistry of

58:45

a mouse brain, for example, very similar

58:47

to the neurochemistry of human rights. There's

58:49

all sorts of analogues and behavior and

58:52

function that are relevant, but the Mail

58:54

Thursday and doctrine is based on a

58:56

very low level analogy. So the analogy

58:59

is essentially this: if you put a

59:01

microorganism in a petri dish so it

59:03

has enough com a gun in Us

59:06

food said states and it inside it

59:08

will multiply to the point. Where and

59:10

rapidly geometrically or it's finance leads to

59:12

the point where it consumes all of

59:15

it's resources and then it will have

59:17

catastrophic li. Collapse. Okay,

59:20

and so and you can see

59:22

that same thing or in some

59:24

natural populations. If you provide our

59:27

natural population with no predation and

59:29

a plethora of resources in a

59:31

constrained environments beneath, the or population

59:34

will grow until consumes old, the

59:36

embark resources and collapse. Okay, so.

59:39

Why aren't people? Microorganisms.

59:43

In a petri. This. Well. There

59:45

are some constraints on what we

59:48

can produce and consume. Like there's

59:50

different. What would you say? Ah,

59:53

Scarcity. of difference fundamental elements

59:55

for example such that some things

59:57

will always be more expensive than

59:59

others are almost others, almost always.

1:00:02

There's some natural scarcity, but here's

1:00:04

the fundamental difference between human beings

1:00:06

and other creatures. So,

1:00:12

we can produce, we

1:00:15

can innovate and we can produce variants

1:00:17

of ourselves that can die instead of

1:00:20

us. So, on the innovation front, the

1:00:22

innovation front, and these things are tied

1:00:24

together, because we can think, because we

1:00:26

can transform cognitively, we don't

1:00:28

have to die or

1:00:30

vary genetically. We can transform

1:00:33

cognitively. That's our niche. And the fact

1:00:36

that we can transform cognitively means that

1:00:38

we can make constant

1:00:40

scarcity into variable

1:00:43

plenitude. And we've done that constantly.

1:00:46

Things we regard as natural

1:00:48

resources, hydrocarbons, for example, oil,

1:00:51

gas, those things were of zero value

1:00:54

in 1820. Zero. They

1:00:56

weren't natural resources at all. It wasn't

1:00:58

until we figured out how to use

1:01:00

them, how to substitute them for whale

1:01:03

oil, for example, that they became this

1:01:05

unbelievable source of wealth that was immediately

1:01:07

available everywhere. It was a

1:01:10

cognitive transformation and revolution. And there's

1:01:12

no end to the degree to

1:01:14

which we can use that cognitive

1:01:16

revolution to increase plenitude. And that's

1:01:19

exactly why, for example, that every

1:01:21

baby born today will produce seven times as much

1:01:23

as they consume. Now, you might say, at some

1:01:26

scale, there's going to be some limit

1:01:28

to plenitude. But it isn't obvious at

1:01:30

all that what that's going to be.

1:01:32

And it certainly isn't obvious that we've

1:01:34

reached that limit. And that's especially true

1:01:36

when you consider the possibility of computation.

1:01:39

Because we're in this situation now where

1:01:41

our computing resources, which take up comparatively

1:01:44

little resources and energy, are multiplying

1:01:46

at a rate that's absolutely beyond

1:01:48

comprehension. And we have no idea

1:01:50

how much we're going to know in 10 years.

1:01:53

So the Malthusian notion, there

1:01:55

isn't anything about the Malthusian

1:01:57

notion that's correct, except for

1:01:59

for yeast and

1:02:01

bacteria. And if

1:02:04

you're going to treat people like yeast and

1:02:06

bacteria, then we're going to be in the

1:02:08

same damn situation that we're in now, right?

1:02:10

Where we have to justify our existence by

1:02:12

data because the world is full of scarcity.

1:02:14

And maybe the only the elites who have

1:02:17

our best interests in mind are going to

1:02:19

be allowed to thrive. Yeah. I think

1:02:21

I can think of a far right ideology that

1:02:23

talks about people as being dirty, and bacteria.

1:02:28

And now we are dealing with a left

1:02:30

wing ideology that is doing the exact

1:02:32

same thing and making us justify our

1:02:34

existence. And yet they call the people

1:02:37

who opposed to it far right. So

1:02:39

we're full circle. Yeah.

1:02:41

Well, I saw recently that Trudeau's

1:02:44

minions are now, what

1:02:47

would you say, working behind the

1:02:49

scenes to ensure that the

1:02:51

public health officials at the World

1:02:54

Health Organization, who are so concerned

1:02:56

with the control of the next

1:02:58

pandemic, just like they were with

1:03:00

the last one, are also now

1:03:02

moving to ensure that climate catastrophe

1:03:04

will be included within the domain

1:03:06

of public health concern that

1:03:09

global overlords are going to be

1:03:11

able to manage. And

1:03:13

your comment about far

1:03:17

right totalitarian governments

1:03:20

treating people as if they're infectious

1:03:22

agents, right cancers on the planet.

1:03:25

Let's say we know

1:03:27

perfectly well, again, from the

1:03:29

data that that drives a

1:03:31

totalitarian agenda. As soon as

1:03:33

you use language of contamination,

1:03:35

pollution and disgust to characterize

1:03:37

someone, let's say

1:03:39

human beings, you immediately elicit

1:03:41

the unconscious and conscious

1:03:43

activations of the disgust systems that

1:03:46

protect us from contamination. And those

1:03:48

are very dangerous once they're activated.

1:03:50

They aim at destruction, right

1:03:53

at the destruction of the pathogen. Yes.

1:03:56

And those people, those are the ones that the

1:03:58

farmers, the truckers, the people. that we've seen out

1:04:00

on the streets that they have protested against. That's

1:04:03

why they were out on the street. And

1:04:06

when I said that earlier in this conversation,

1:04:08

we have been speaking to people who feel

1:04:10

like they are ruled by people who hate

1:04:12

them. And that's maybe they can't voice exactly

1:04:14

why. You know, they can come up

1:04:16

with examples. Obviously, they are feeling it in

1:04:19

their own finances that they can tell.

1:04:22

And I think that people ultimately on a

1:04:24

human level, on a

1:04:27

soul level, can feel when they

1:04:29

are being despised by others. And

1:04:31

this exactly this notion that you

1:04:33

are just describing right now, Jordan,

1:04:35

that I think is the motor

1:04:37

behind this playtest. People can sense

1:04:40

that they are being hated. People can

1:04:42

sense that they are being despised. And they

1:04:44

are done with it because they realize that

1:04:47

they are the ones paying for it and

1:04:49

that the state should be here to serve

1:04:51

us, not the other way

1:04:53

around. Anthony, just

1:04:55

out of curiosity, you

1:04:58

and Eva have just talked about the

1:05:01

breadth and depth of this

1:05:04

protest and its positive

1:05:06

effects. But you've closed by pointing out,

1:05:08

for example, that the finance minister that

1:05:10

you guys talked to or that spoke

1:05:12

to you right at the close of

1:05:14

the protest doesn't seem to have

1:05:17

learned a damn thing, which doesn't surprise me

1:05:19

in the least. And so

1:05:21

that makes me question just how

1:05:23

effective what you've done so far

1:05:25

is. And I

1:05:27

want your opinions about that. And then I'm also curious,

1:05:30

why didn't your now united organization,

1:05:32

given your 80% level of

1:05:36

public support, call for something

1:05:39

approximating a general strike and just bring

1:05:41

the whole bloody thing to a halt?

1:05:44

That would be the obvious

1:05:47

thing. But our, well,

1:05:50

how should I explain it? Well,

1:05:53

actually, it's against the law to do this

1:05:55

general strike because

1:05:57

it obviously is against

1:05:59

the law. But I reckon we have to

1:06:01

come to the stage where

1:06:04

we have to break the law

1:06:06

sometimes, which is not meaning violence.

1:06:08

It's like just civil disobedience. Yeah,

1:06:11

exactly. Yeah, that's probably the next

1:06:13

stage. But we have to

1:06:15

talk about that between us, between

1:06:17

the organizations. But you're

1:06:20

completely right. I mean,

1:06:23

we gave the government two options.

1:06:25

Well, there are two options. I've

1:06:28

heard they turn back to a policy

1:06:30

which is for the people, like Efaz

1:06:32

said, which is definitely not. I mean,

1:06:34

we forgot loads of things which are

1:06:37

going completely wrong in Germany. I mean,

1:06:39

we have a farming minister who's telling

1:06:41

us we should only eat, and this

1:06:43

is not a joke, 10 grams

1:06:47

meat per day. This is honestly what they

1:06:49

are trying to tell us, 10 grams,

1:06:53

which is nothing. Yeah, when the politicians

1:06:55

start telling you what you can and

1:06:57

can't eat, we've

1:06:59

crossed a line. It's like you don't get to tell

1:07:01

me where I set my thermostat. You

1:07:03

don't get to tell me what I can drive and when, and

1:07:05

you certainly bloody well don't get to tell me what I can

1:07:07

eat. Like fundamentally

1:07:09

and seriously, to hell with you. And

1:07:12

what it also indicates to me, and increasingly

1:07:15

clearly, is that once you're

1:07:17

waving the flag of planetary

1:07:19

saviour on the environmentalist front,

1:07:21

once you've turned 100% to

1:07:24

that kind of nature worship,

1:07:26

there is absolutely no level

1:07:28

of control whatsoever that you

1:07:30

won't stoop to and justify

1:07:32

by your moral pretension. Right?

1:07:35

Redounding to your credit and increasing your

1:07:37

power at the same time as it

1:07:40

does. So, all right,

1:07:42

so they're perfect. So this begs the

1:07:44

question though, doesn't it? I watched Claudine

1:07:46

Gay resign from Harvard

1:07:48

and I've watched the moderate

1:07:51

left wingers flap about now

1:07:53

in increasing consternation, recognizing as

1:07:55

they do the absolute danger

1:07:57

of the diversity, equity, and

1:07:59

justice. inclusivity, idiocy that's part

1:08:01

and parcel of this, what

1:08:03

would you say, radical leftist

1:08:06

line of anti-human thinking. But

1:08:08

at the same time, I see that I

1:08:10

don't believe that Harvard as an institution has

1:08:13

learned a damn thing. And I don't believe

1:08:15

that the moderates on the

1:08:17

Democrat side in the United States,

1:08:19

for example, have any idea whatsoever

1:08:21

how deep the ideological

1:08:23

corruption and rot has become. And

1:08:26

so you've pushed forward this

1:08:29

protest. But as you

1:08:31

said yourself, you still have members of the

1:08:33

government firmly in charge who think that we

1:08:35

should eat 10 grams of meat a day

1:08:37

and who don't believe that they're

1:08:39

going to throw you a bone or

1:08:42

two maybe in the near future, but

1:08:44

the probability that they're going to revisit

1:08:46

the ideology upon which they've faced their

1:08:48

political empire strikes me to be close

1:08:50

to zero. So again, you

1:08:52

said the future is uncertain and unpredictable. What

1:08:54

do you think is going to happen and

1:08:56

what should happen? We have three

1:08:59

elections this year in East Germany.

1:09:01

And East Germany, the

1:09:04

polls show that the far

1:09:06

right party, the AFD in

1:09:08

Germany is by far

1:09:11

in the lead in these polls, and

1:09:14

which will be

1:09:16

like an earthquake in our politician

1:09:18

in Germany because we never had

1:09:20

this situation. And if

1:09:22

this happens, and I reckon it will, because

1:09:24

like you said, they will not change their

1:09:26

policy. Things

1:09:29

will change rapidly in Germany because like

1:09:31

you know, politicians, they want

1:09:33

power. And to get power, you

1:09:35

have to compromise. And

1:09:37

even though they now say, we

1:09:39

will never compromise, we never go

1:09:41

together with this party, I reckon

1:09:44

this because they want the power,

1:09:46

they will. And that will

1:09:48

be a landslide, it will be completely

1:09:50

changed in Germany. But

1:09:54

saying that, that might even

1:09:56

still, I still have

1:09:58

hope. I hope it's

1:10:00

the right word, that our actual

1:10:02

government will change the way

1:10:05

they govern, not by 180

1:10:07

degrees, which we need, but

1:10:10

maybe a few degrees. And

1:10:14

that might be these two options are on

1:10:16

the table, only these two

1:10:18

options. Okay, well something similar to that

1:10:20

has happened in the Netherlands. So now,

1:10:23

Eva, what's the status of the government in the

1:10:25

Netherlands? And is Gertwelder's going to head up the

1:10:28

new government? Is that how it looks? And what

1:10:30

do you think of him? And

1:10:32

what do you think, again, let's talk about

1:10:34

this a little bit. What do you think

1:10:36

the dangers are that present themselves in consequence

1:10:39

of that in the Netherlands? The same thing

1:10:41

applies to Germany. And we could also

1:10:43

talk about the AFD to some degree,

1:10:45

because they're certainly pilloried as far

1:10:47

right in Western media, certainly in

1:10:49

North America. They're viewed as

1:10:52

right of Victor Orban, I would say,

1:10:55

and he's definitely persona non-gratit to the

1:10:57

legacy media. So let's start with the

1:10:59

situation again in Netherlands and then move

1:11:01

to what you see, Eva, as being

1:11:03

most likely in Germany.

1:11:06

I'd like to hear your thoughts about the AFD

1:11:08

as well. Okay, so we

1:11:10

are still in the process of forming a

1:11:12

coalition right now. As I said, we have

1:11:14

a very scattered political landscape. And so all

1:11:16

of the parties that one will

1:11:18

need to form or have negotiations and

1:11:21

form ultimately a coalition to have a

1:11:23

majority in parliament. So without

1:11:25

that, it's going to be difficult to pass

1:11:27

any legislation, obviously. So this process is

1:11:29

very important. What is now

1:11:31

happening is that the, let's just

1:11:34

say the legacy parties, the establishment

1:11:36

parties that have ruled the

1:11:38

Netherlands, and I would say destroyed it actively

1:11:40

for the past 30 years, are

1:11:43

doing everything in their power

1:11:45

to stall that process, because

1:11:47

Care Builders is becoming increasingly

1:11:49

popular. As I said, he

1:11:52

got one out of four votes in

1:11:54

the elections just a month ago, and now

1:11:56

he's polling at one in three votes.

1:11:59

So the last thing that they want right

1:12:01

now is the coalition formation product process

1:12:03

to fail and for new general elections

1:12:05

to be called because then he's going

1:12:08

to become even bigger. So what I

1:12:10

think the political strategy at home is,

1:12:12

is they're going to stall that process

1:12:14

for as long as possible. The parties,

1:12:16

the moderate right wing party, the centrist

1:12:19

parties, they're going to pretend to

1:12:21

be willing to work with him. And

1:12:23

then they're going to drag it out

1:12:25

so long. And they're going to say at a

1:12:27

certain point, well, you know, this man is just

1:12:30

impossible. And they're already saying that he has said

1:12:32

things that go against the Constitution and that are

1:12:34

a threat to the rule of law, etc. So

1:12:36

they're building their case. And I

1:12:38

think that that is something that we see everywhere is

1:12:40

that, you know, this is a war of attrition, essentially.

1:12:42

So we have to be

1:12:45

prepared for all of these games. However,

1:12:48

Jake Knapp is the inventor of the design sprint

1:12:50

and the New York Times best selling author of

1:12:53

the book sprint. He's also the co

1:12:55

founder of character of venture fund for

1:12:57

early stage startups. How and

1:12:59

why did you start using Nero? I

1:13:01

came from this position of thinking, I don't

1:13:03

want to be doing stuff online to thinking

1:13:05

now when I do a spin in person

1:13:07

with a company, it's like we're going to

1:13:09

use Nero even though we're all in the

1:13:11

same room, because that's a better way for

1:13:14

us to get this work done. As an

1:13:16

investor, we're basically investing in their ability to

1:13:18

solve problems. We're saying we think this group

1:13:20

of people is going to be able to

1:13:22

solve a problem in a really great way

1:13:24

and create value by doing it. And actually,

1:13:26

you need to give people the tools that

1:13:28

can help them make decisions, help them collaborate,

1:13:30

help them visualize and see things in a

1:13:32

different way. And Miro does all

1:13:35

those things. So to me, at least as

1:13:37

an investor, I'm thinking, give the team the

1:13:39

tools that are going to help them think

1:13:41

that are going to make the most brighten

1:13:43

their skills as smart folks. And you're at

1:13:45

the top of that list. I

1:13:48

think something similar might happen in Germany. But

1:13:51

what I do think is that the genie

1:13:53

is out of the bottle with the people.

1:13:56

And that, to me, is ultimately the only thing that matters.

1:13:58

I don't put any of my stuff in there. us

1:14:00

in the political party system anyway. What

1:14:02

I do care about is the willingness

1:14:04

of people to stand up for what

1:14:06

they believe is right and to not

1:14:08

be intimidated by people who lie about

1:14:10

them and about what they stand for,

1:14:12

right? So what I think is going

1:14:14

to happen in Germany with AFD, the

1:14:16

people that I've met from AFD,

1:14:18

what I've seen about AFD is they

1:14:21

are conservative people who essentially are saying,

1:14:23

well, the idea, Merkel's idea to let

1:14:25

1.2 million migrants in in one

1:14:27

year in 2015 might have

1:14:29

not been the greatest idea. To me,

1:14:33

that's a very legitimate standpoint, extraordinarily

1:14:35

legitimate, especially because there is no

1:14:37

alternative, no pun intended, in

1:14:40

Germany really, aside

1:14:42

from the parties that have destroyed the country

1:14:44

very actively. So I think that they

1:14:46

are going to win by

1:14:48

a much larger margin than the polls suggest

1:14:50

right now, just like what happened for us,

1:14:53

because the PPP was also not, they weren't

1:14:55

pulled at the extent that they now have

1:14:57

won the elections with. And

1:15:00

I think that that will change something in

1:15:02

the mindset of the Germans, because like I

1:15:04

said, if even

1:15:06

in Germany, that label doesn't hold

1:15:09

enough power anymore to deter people

1:15:11

from voting for change, then

1:15:13

you really know that the government is messed

1:15:15

up, right? You really know the establishment is

1:15:18

messed up, and that the people are set

1:15:20

up. So I personally, I think that Germans

1:15:23

who want change have no

1:15:25

choice really, but to vote for the

1:15:27

right wing parties, and I would say

1:15:29

essentially, not for any party that has governed the

1:15:31

nation in the last 10 years. Okay,

1:15:34

so do you see, and

1:15:36

I'd like both your opinions on this, it's

1:15:40

so difficult to get a handle on any of this,

1:15:42

because, you know, I've

1:15:44

been watching the political landscape for a very long

1:15:46

time, and certainly the idea

1:15:49

of Gyrt

1:15:51

Builders has raised my hackles

1:15:54

in the past, and I would

1:15:56

say that's because I'm profoundly, at

1:15:58

least because I'm relatively ignorant. about

1:16:00

politics in the Netherlands and still

1:16:03

susceptible to the

1:16:05

consensus view developed by the low

1:16:07

resolution pictures presented by the legacy

1:16:09

media. And so I don't know

1:16:12

what to make of that and

1:16:14

exactly the same thing applies to

1:16:16

the AFD. And so I'd

1:16:18

like to know from both of you what

1:16:20

dangers, if any, you think this tilt

1:16:23

towards this more, we've

1:16:25

already taken apart the notion of the

1:16:27

right. God only knows even what

1:16:29

that is anymore, given the

1:16:31

overuse of the term. But do

1:16:33

either of you have any qualms

1:16:36

about these political transformations? Do

1:16:38

you think that they could, just

1:16:40

because you're fighting something that in

1:16:43

and of itself is reprehensible and

1:16:45

destructive, doesn't mean that the weapons

1:16:47

that you use to fight it

1:16:49

can't also pose precisely the same

1:16:51

danger. So Eva, maybe you

1:16:54

could start by commenting on that, especially

1:16:56

with regards to the AFD. And then Anthony,

1:16:58

you could chime in with regard to Germany.

1:17:01

Well, I mean, these are the both

1:17:03

the upsides and the downsides of democracy in

1:17:05

general that we're discussing, I think. So

1:17:08

of course, the the instrument or

1:17:10

the alternative can also turn bad.

1:17:13

But then that's inherent to democracy.

1:17:15

And the fact that we have

1:17:17

to form coalitions in

1:17:20

our democratic systems, at least, that's somewhat

1:17:22

of a safeguard in a sense that

1:17:24

they are going to have to work

1:17:26

together with other parties anyway. So let's

1:17:28

say, God forbid, that these parties turn

1:17:30

out to have crazy ideas that we

1:17:32

absolutely didn't want, didn't vote for. We

1:17:36

have to either trust in

1:17:38

the fact that the system will correct it. Or

1:17:41

I think you can throw away the

1:17:43

entire concept of democracy almost all together.

1:17:45

Right. So I

1:17:48

think that a lot of people

1:17:50

here are trying to use the

1:17:52

the possibility of maybe I've been

1:17:54

going too far in certain aspects

1:17:57

or, you know, not having I hear another

1:17:59

argument on often that they say, oh, well, they

1:18:01

don't have good people. They don't have enough people

1:18:03

with enough qualities to govern the country. I'm like,

1:18:06

well, I don't know if the people who are

1:18:08

in power right now do. Like clearly, you

1:18:10

guys have a bit of an issue on your

1:18:12

hand. So you might as well try. And

1:18:15

I think that that is essentially what

1:18:17

this country needs. Something needs to happen.

1:18:19

And like I said, I'm not one

1:18:21

to put all of my solace and

1:18:23

trust and hope in the political system

1:18:25

anyway, but it is very clear to

1:18:27

me that Germany and Europe

1:18:29

in general is on a path

1:18:31

of national suicide. So might as well

1:18:33

try something else for once. And

1:18:36

I, you know, because I find myself

1:18:38

in the position so often that I've been called far

1:18:41

right for what I think are perfectly

1:18:43

valid opinions, that I care

1:18:46

a little bit less at this point. You know,

1:18:48

I'm like, no, I think something just

1:18:50

needs to change here. And I try

1:18:52

to trust in the democratic system and that it will

1:18:54

protect itself. That

1:18:57

terrifying spectre, Maloney in Italy,

1:18:59

who everyone in sundry was

1:19:02

warned about in no uncertain

1:19:04

terms forever, you know,

1:19:06

tantamount to Mussolini and her fascist proclivities has

1:19:09

turned out to be a hell of a

1:19:11

lot more moderate even than

1:19:13

the people who voted for her might have

1:19:15

hoped. So these spectres of

1:19:17

fascism that keep looming turn out to

1:19:20

have a lot less teeth than feared

1:19:22

when they end up. What

1:19:25

would you say when they end up acquiring

1:19:27

a certain degree of political power?

1:19:29

Now, you know, Orban has been

1:19:31

the most successful conservative

1:19:34

figure in some ways on

1:19:37

the European scene. And he's still demonized

1:19:39

roundly and continually in the Western

1:19:41

media. But it's also been my

1:19:44

apprehension with regard to Hungary that

1:19:46

things are nowhere near as dismal

1:19:48

there as they might have been

1:19:50

given all the fear that was

1:19:53

engendered around Orban's policies. And so

1:19:55

what do you think about that?

1:19:57

And then Anthony will turn to your feelings

1:19:59

about. the AFD in Germany? Yeah,

1:20:02

I think I think you're very right. I mean, when

1:20:04

I go to Hungary, for example,

1:20:06

personally, and when I speak to other people who go

1:20:08

there, a lot of people feel like they can finally

1:20:11

take a breather. It's like, Oh, that's nice. You know,

1:20:13

this is what Europe used to be like, 50 years

1:20:15

ago, 30 years ago in some

1:20:17

countries, even less. And and I

1:20:19

am upset as a 27 year old,

1:20:22

that I have never experienced

1:20:25

Europe as safe as functioning

1:20:27

as sane, normal, dare I

1:20:29

say, you know, as I

1:20:32

find a city like Budapest

1:20:34

to be, you know, my

1:20:36

parents had that

1:20:38

experience, my grandfather, sure

1:20:40

as heck had that experience, but I

1:20:42

never had it. And I never voted for it.

1:20:45

You know, I have always growing up had to

1:20:47

be afraid going out after dark, you

1:20:49

know, it's just

1:20:51

that's, that's our reality right now.

1:20:54

And that's our reality, not because

1:20:56

it happened like a natural disaster,

1:20:58

but because people in power made

1:21:00

the wrong decisions actively. And

1:21:04

I think that everybody can agree to the

1:21:06

fact that a country like Hungary

1:21:08

is not, you know, the dictatorship that they make

1:21:10

it out to be in the media. The

1:21:13

what I saw the time, especially the last

1:21:15

time I was in Budapest, I was there

1:21:17

for a symposium on on promotion

1:21:19

of the family, which seemed to be,

1:21:22

you know, a relatively positive. And

1:21:25

certainly a non-melthusian concern. I

1:21:27

mean, if you were if you're

1:21:29

in the airports in Budapest, for

1:21:32

example, what you see are plethora

1:21:34

of posters, celebrating the

1:21:36

family as the core

1:21:38

bedrock social institution

1:21:41

of the polity. And that

1:21:43

just doesn't strike me as

1:21:45

particularly Nazi and its derivation,

1:21:47

especially. And so this

1:21:50

and I know the president of Hungary

1:21:52

to some degree, and she's a woman

1:21:54

who is quite admirable, in my estimation,

1:21:56

who spent most of her career trying

1:21:59

to figure out. how to

1:22:01

protect the family and how

1:22:03

to economically incentivize

1:22:05

the role that women play

1:22:08

in reproduction in keeping with opening

1:22:10

up the opportunities for them on

1:22:12

the economic front in general and

1:22:14

has produced policies that have decreased

1:22:17

abortion substantially without force, decreased

1:22:19

divorce, increased the marriage rate and also

1:22:22

increased the rate at which women are

1:22:24

participating in the broader

1:22:26

general economy. And so none of

1:22:28

that particularly screams fascism to me.

1:22:32

And the fact too that we've seen well

1:22:34

that the consequences of the

1:22:36

election of Bologna and

1:22:39

also one of the so-called

1:22:41

far-right parties in Sweden seems

1:22:43

to me to indicate that there's a lot more

1:22:46

fear there than

1:22:48

is justified by the

1:22:50

consequences, especially in contrast to this

1:22:53

absolutely insane, utopian,

1:22:55

self-serving, moralizing green agenda that

1:22:57

provides an absolute excuse for

1:22:59

everything you can possibly conceptualize.

1:23:03

Anthony, in terms

1:23:05

of the AFD, how

1:23:07

do you think it is being

1:23:09

perceived by the protesting class now,

1:23:12

the people that you've been talking to, the

1:23:14

truckers, the farmers, the people who

1:23:16

work for the railways, the dark workers, because they

1:23:19

were all involved in this protest as well.

1:23:21

And what dangers do

1:23:23

you as a German

1:23:26

citizen see on

1:23:28

the fascist side, so

1:23:30

to speak, as a consequence of these

1:23:32

populist movements? Well, me

1:23:35

myself, I'm in politics

1:23:37

for the last eight years, and I was

1:23:40

in the CDU. That was a party from

1:23:42

Anglais Merckle. And I

1:23:45

left the party about a year ago, and

1:23:47

I moved to the parties

1:23:50

called Freie Willa. I would say they

1:23:52

are the old CDU, as I knew

1:23:54

it 20 years ago. And

1:23:57

the AFD, yes, it's a far-right

1:23:59

party. which is

1:24:01

gaining on popularity massively.

1:24:06

And the main reason is, I

1:24:08

think, is the same reason like

1:24:10

in Italy and in Sweden, migration.

1:24:12

We have a massive migration problem

1:24:14

in Germany. We have, I'd

1:24:16

say, around about five to six million people since

1:24:19

2015 who came to Germany. And

1:24:22

at the moment, we are way over

1:24:25

300,000 this year. And

1:24:29

it's not the problem with migration.

1:24:31

The problem is who is coming. And

1:24:33

we don't even know who is

1:24:35

coming. Up till 2010, I was a police

1:24:37

officer in Berlin. We

1:24:40

had a massive problem with migrants in

1:24:43

them days because the migrants

1:24:45

who come now are mainly young men

1:24:47

from Muslim countries. And

1:24:50

like I said, we don't even know who is

1:24:53

coming because they come in, they are allowed to

1:24:55

stay here, even though it's against the law. And

1:24:58

we don't obey the law. The government doesn't

1:25:00

obey the law like it should be. And

1:25:03

governments like Sweden, I mean,

1:25:05

Sweden is very liberal, as

1:25:09

I know it. I mean, even

1:25:11

Denmark, you didn't mention Denmark because

1:25:13

Denmark isn't governed by a right-wing

1:25:15

party, but they are governed by

1:25:17

a female president who

1:25:19

is a social democrat. What

1:25:22

she did is she uses the

1:25:24

same methods, the politics, the

1:25:28

right-wing party kind of is.

1:25:32

And that's why the right-wing parties

1:25:34

in Denmark aren't existent

1:25:36

anymore, to be honest. So it's

1:25:39

not who runs a country, which

1:25:41

right or left wing, it's

1:25:45

what policy do you do in

1:25:47

your country? And

1:25:50

talking about the AFD, it's

1:25:53

very, very strong in East Germany because

1:25:56

the East Germans, I think they have,

1:25:58

we say they're better. antennas,

1:26:01

which, you know what I mean? Because

1:26:03

they come from the DDR. So

1:26:07

the older people who lived

1:26:09

in a climate like they did,

1:26:12

they know if something's not going

1:26:14

right in your country. We are

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that's why they turn to the AFD

1:26:32

more than we in the West do.

1:26:35

And many

1:26:38

say they should be forbidden. The party should be

1:26:40

forbidden. And I say,

1:26:43

who are we, the people, to

1:26:46

say it's not, it

1:26:48

could be forbidden or it's not a democratic

1:26:50

party. For me, only

1:26:52

one institution could say

1:26:54

that. That's a high court in Germany. If

1:26:57

they say, yes, they should

1:26:59

be forbidden. Okay. But me or

1:27:02

the press aren't the

1:27:04

people or the institutions to say

1:27:06

that. So like I said,

1:27:08

a few minutes ago, it will be very interesting

1:27:10

to see how the

1:27:12

AFD and the CDU, if they compare

1:27:15

with each other, if they go together

1:27:17

after the three elections we have in

1:27:19

East Germany, that will be very interesting.

1:27:22

Well, you talked about antenna, you

1:27:24

know, and I've traveled extensively with

1:27:26

my wife through Eastern Europe, Eastern

1:27:29

Europe in the last

1:27:31

years, multiple times, many, many different

1:27:33

countries meeting with many, many people.

1:27:35

And certainly one of the

1:27:37

things I saw was that the

1:27:40

survivors of the Soviet regime,

1:27:43

which is all those people,

1:27:45

are much more sensitive to

1:27:47

the dangers posed and

1:27:50

the reality of the radical

1:27:52

leftist agenda that is

1:27:54

sweeping over the Western world

1:27:56

in the hypothetical. of

1:28:00

the continuance of liberalism and

1:28:02

that's antennae and much more likely

1:28:04

as they did in Hungary in

1:28:06

consequence and to Poland in some

1:28:08

degree although not recently and but

1:28:10

in Hungary to favor

1:28:13

modes of apprehension and

1:28:15

governance that keep the

1:28:17

communist specter that

1:28:19

specter of centralized planning for example

1:28:21

at as much pay as possible

1:28:24

and so that seems to be

1:28:26

reflected for example in

1:28:28

the attitude of the East Germans

1:28:31

that you just described toward the

1:28:33

globalist utopian quasi-green agenda that we've

1:28:35

been discussing you know my sense

1:28:38

has been quite strong in recent

1:28:40

years that the

1:28:42

bastion of European civilization

1:28:44

that would be Judeo-Christian civilization in

1:28:47

Europe is now shifted to Eastern

1:28:49

Europe rather than Western Europe and

1:28:51

you know the you with the UK playing

1:28:53

a rather ambivalent role in that regard because

1:28:56

it's a country that's very split with

1:28:58

the Brexit people more

1:29:00

aligned with the Eastern Europeans and

1:29:02

the well the Labour Party which

1:29:04

is most likely to be the next government

1:29:06

much more aligned with the globalist utopians in

1:29:08

Brussels so Eva

1:29:10

what's on your slate now

1:29:13

the protests in Germany have

1:29:16

come to their current conclusion

1:29:18

and then Anthony maybe you can tell

1:29:20

us what's well

1:29:23

what's the next move that

1:29:25

lays in front of the protesters so Eva

1:29:27

what are you up to next and what

1:29:30

are you working on and what do

1:29:32

you hope to have have happened in the near

1:29:34

future well talking

1:29:36

about communism and the

1:29:39

agenda and the similarities with the agenda that

1:29:41

we are facing right now I've spoken very

1:29:43

often about the global war on farming

1:29:45

right that's the reason why I'm here right

1:29:48

now that's the reason why I decided to

1:29:50

join the protest in the Netherlands to speak

1:29:52

out is I want to make people aware

1:29:54

of again this

1:29:56

utopian green deal

1:29:59

and and the Net Zero

1:30:01

agenda and ultimately the Agenda 2030,

1:30:03

which is a United Nations agenda,

1:30:05

that I think is at the

1:30:07

core of this. And

1:30:09

that agenda, to me, reeks of

1:30:12

communism more than anything else, but

1:30:14

you have to really see through

1:30:16

the pretexts that they use. So

1:30:18

everybody, the entire world, right, is

1:30:20

part of the United Nations. And

1:30:23

the United Nations have laid out

1:30:25

sustainable development goals that are ultimately

1:30:27

at the top of the hierarchy

1:30:30

for all of these policies that we are facing

1:30:32

right now, that if

1:30:35

you look at them at face value, they look

1:30:37

very noble. You know, I think one of the

1:30:39

first ones is to end world hunger. But

1:30:41

then if you think about how

1:30:44

they would put that into practice, none

1:30:46

of those goals can ever be

1:30:49

achieved or attained without the redistribution

1:30:51

of wealth, goods, foods,

1:30:54

rights. And so that

1:30:56

ultimately to me is, this

1:30:58

is neo-communism or neo-feudalism, you could even

1:31:00

say, I guess, packaged

1:31:03

just a little bit nicer. You

1:31:05

know, it's like, oh, we

1:31:08

are here to save you. But if you look

1:31:10

at the reality of things, and I think that

1:31:12

we are all currently already experiencing that, what

1:31:14

will happen just like with communism in the

1:31:17

old days, is that the ordinary people will

1:31:20

become poorer and more miserable, and the top

1:31:22

layer will become even richer. And that's what

1:31:24

we are facing today. And I will continue,

1:31:26

I guess, my fight

1:31:28

and my plight for the

1:31:30

farmers in that sense, because I truly

1:31:32

believe that the farmers are the one

1:31:34

group, especially, and I know that

1:31:36

this is also a very radical thing to say in a

1:31:39

European context, but we in Europe, we

1:31:41

don't have a Second Amendment. I think that the

1:31:43

sort of the spirit of, you

1:31:45

know, wanting to protect your people against

1:31:47

the tyrannical government is not as embedded

1:31:50

in our minds as it is in,

1:31:52

let's say, the American debate. Yeah. Right.

1:31:54

So it's really important that people become

1:31:56

aware of the fact that, yes, we

1:31:58

can also face tyrannical. governments. And the

1:32:00

pretty words that they use are just pretty

1:32:02

words, but you are going to end up

1:32:04

poor and miserable. And so, well,

1:32:07

so, so the farmers, so you

1:32:09

see, and this seems to be

1:32:12

a late motif for your political operating

1:32:14

is that you seem

1:32:16

to react as if,

1:32:19

if it bothers the farmers and

1:32:21

the truckers, it's probably

1:32:24

wrong. And that seems

1:32:26

to me to be an extremely useful

1:32:28

rule of thumb. And it's also one

1:32:30

you'd think the bloody leftists would adhere

1:32:33

to, given their hypothetical concern with the

1:32:35

working class, right? Because you can't get

1:32:37

more bedrock working class than farmers and

1:32:39

truckers. So, and that does seem to

1:32:42

me to be a reasonable measurement

1:32:44

tool. You know, if the policies

1:32:46

are bothering the farmers and making

1:32:48

them protest, something is up because

1:32:50

that's just not how farmers operate,

1:32:53

not generally. And the same can

1:32:55

be said for truckers when

1:32:57

they're goaded into political action, something

1:32:59

genuinely rotten is occurring. And, you

1:33:01

know, with this regard to these

1:33:03

sustainable development goals, if you wanted

1:33:05

to feed the bloody poor, the

1:33:07

first thing you would do is

1:33:10

lower energy costs by whatever means

1:33:12

necessary. And so if you think

1:33:14

you can quintuple energy costs and

1:33:16

feed the poor, you're an idiot

1:33:18

or you're malevolent, you know,

1:33:20

or you're narcissistically self-serving or

1:33:22

some terrible combination of all

1:33:24

of that. Yeah, yeah. So

1:33:26

my goal for now is to I

1:33:28

mean, I want this agenda abolished, right? I want

1:33:30

the 2030 agenda abolished. I

1:33:33

don't want to vote for politicians who

1:33:35

say, oh, you know, yeah, maybe

1:33:37

it goes a little too fast. Let's push

1:33:39

it to 2035. You know, a fast

1:33:41

way to hell or a long way to hell,

1:33:43

it's still a way to hell. And I just

1:33:45

want the whole thing gone. So that's where

1:33:48

I see my role in this. And I want to

1:33:50

continue my political commentary. And, you know, in that sense,

1:33:52

I met you guys in service because I have not

1:33:54

forgotten where my food comes from. And I want to

1:33:57

be able to continue to eat healthy foods and live

1:33:59

my life. life freely and

1:34:01

decide where I travel, when I travel,

1:34:03

who I meet, what I eat, and

1:34:05

I don't want the damn globalists in

1:34:07

my business. So I know that if

1:34:09

the farmers fall, like I said, they

1:34:11

are the group in our society that

1:34:13

can make a true stance

1:34:16

against the globalists. They have the manpower,

1:34:18

as we've seen, to really

1:34:20

paralyze an entire country. And so I

1:34:22

hope that they do go and strike

1:34:24

and that they don't let themselves be

1:34:26

intimidated by these people who will

1:34:29

come after you, but then will let

1:34:31

illegal migrants flood your nation and won't

1:34:33

send them back talking about equality before

1:34:35

the law. I mean, you know, I

1:34:37

so I that's I'm at your service.

1:34:40

I will support you as much as I can.

1:34:42

And I find it extraordinarily important what you've done

1:34:44

and very brave, especially in a nation like Germany.

1:34:46

So Hey, Anthony.

1:34:49

So what's what's

1:34:52

next for you personally? The

1:34:54

protests, this current round of protests is

1:34:56

folding down. So what do you go

1:34:58

back to? And then what do you

1:35:01

see unfolding in front of you and

1:35:03

your protesting peers in the well, let's

1:35:05

say in the next year or the

1:35:07

next year? We have to get rid

1:35:09

of this government no matter how

1:35:11

this year. This

1:35:14

Germany cannot survive two more years

1:35:16

of this government. And I mean

1:35:18

it honestly. I

1:35:21

told you earlier we we had our

1:35:23

finance minister who's free. He's from the Free

1:35:25

Democratic Party. And he

1:35:27

told us today on stage, because

1:35:29

I forgot to mention this, we

1:35:32

in Germany are farmers. We have to leave 4%

1:35:34

of our land not seeded. So

1:35:40

nothing is allowed to happen on this

1:35:42

land because our green minister

1:35:46

wants this to happen. So

1:35:50

in the same sentence, we have

1:35:52

to fight because there are so

1:35:54

many people starving to death on

1:35:57

this world. We have to fight for

1:35:59

every... handful of grain. This

1:36:02

is ridiculous. It's insane, actually. And

1:36:04

he's right in one point. Every

1:36:07

3.8 seconds, a

1:36:10

human being dies, staves to

1:36:12

death. Every 13 seconds, a

1:36:14

child under five

1:36:17

years dies of lack of

1:36:19

food. Right? And in

1:36:21

the same sentence, we are over

1:36:24

flooded with grain from Ukraine. And then we

1:36:26

have to leave 4% of our land where

1:36:28

we have to pay tax.

1:36:32

And we're not allowed to

1:36:34

seed anything on this land.

1:36:36

It's insane. But our finance

1:36:38

minister today said it's a

1:36:40

point we can talk to.

1:36:42

So there's a goal,

1:36:45

maybe, to divide these two

1:36:47

parties in this government. I mean,

1:36:49

they are divided anyway. But we

1:36:51

can really put pressure

1:36:55

on these free

1:36:57

democratic elected persons, people

1:37:00

or politicians, because they are

1:37:02

below 4%. In Germany,

1:37:04

you need 5% to make the

1:37:06

jump into parliament. So all

1:37:10

these people, all these politicians from the

1:37:12

free democratic party, obviously, they have interest

1:37:14

to be in the next parliament, or

1:37:17

whatever, either in charge or not. But

1:37:20

if we put pressure on that, this

1:37:22

will make us or give

1:37:25

us a chance to divide and maybe

1:37:27

get rid of the government. So

1:37:30

this is what we're going to do. And I mean

1:37:33

that we have to escalate another

1:37:35

level in our protest.

1:37:38

And we are capable of doing that easily.

1:37:40

And watch them come after you for saying

1:37:42

this, by the way. Talking about the totalitarian

1:37:45

spirit of the Germans, that never left.

1:37:47

And it's very much present in the

1:37:50

current government. I

1:37:52

wouldn't be surprised if they, because they've already

1:37:54

attacked you so massively in the media, I

1:37:56

wouldn't be surprised if this would land us.

1:38:00

investigation with what they call the

1:38:03

Fassum Shoots, like the protection of

1:38:05

the Constitution. There's a

1:38:07

whole agency that comes after ordinary people

1:38:09

and censors them. OK, well,

1:38:12

but let's put all that in context. I

1:38:15

mean, one of the things that I've been

1:38:17

struck by in listening to you

1:38:19

two is that you both

1:38:21

implicitly and explicitly

1:38:25

indicated your belief that the best

1:38:27

possible way of sorting all of

1:38:29

this out is through the democratic

1:38:31

means that we already have in

1:38:33

place. Now, you talked about the

1:38:35

necessity for protest and the right

1:38:37

to protest and sometimes the necessity

1:38:39

for civil disobedience. But nowhere in

1:38:41

any of our discussion that did

1:38:43

either of you indicate that there's

1:38:46

any better way forward than

1:38:48

the electoral process and the

1:38:50

checks and balances that are

1:38:52

associated with that with

1:38:54

regard to, say, the necessity for

1:38:56

coalition building in both the Netherlands

1:38:59

and in Germany. And so

1:39:01

if they do come after you, it

1:39:03

isn't because you've been calling for

1:39:05

violent revolution and it isn't because you're

1:39:08

basically turn the government on its head

1:39:10

and establish some sort of dictatorship radicals.

1:39:14

And this is actually something that's very

1:39:17

positive to see is you do believe you

1:39:19

appear to believe that we

1:39:22

can work out these problems within the

1:39:25

democratic frameworks that we've already established. And

1:39:27

more importantly, that there is

1:39:29