23:59:59

Special thanks to the Starbucks by a Energy drink, or sponsoring the show with caffeine naturally found in coffee fruit. Its energy that's good. This episode of the Jordan Harbinger show is brought to you Nissan. Why? Wait, for tomorrow today is made for 30, coming up next on the Jordan Harbinger show. Is

0:16

a I

0:24

there progressing along. Get

0:25

stopped for different reasons. One, something's

0:28

going to happen. Will you have to come out and roll? I'm

0:31

at you, you're covered as get long it has regularly.

0:33

That is so many things that could happen. That

0:36

would stop at the fact it very few

0:38

of these run for two years. You're always

0:40

kind of just seeing how it's going to play

0:42

out in that's where the a some of this

0:45

dumb luck comes into and. The

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boys, you can make lot of it, but it is fact.

0:53

Welcome. To the show I'm Jordan Harbinger on

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hope to see you there today. Part 2, with

2:14

Ken croker went undercover in the

2:16

Pagan's. Motorcycle club, crazy episode.

2:19

If you haven't heard part 1, stop this one

2:21

right now. Go get part 1. You got to start

2:23

from the beginning toys are absolutely Bonkers.

2:25

Here we go here part 2 with

2:27

Ken croak.

2:30

Then. Work of my case, where the it turned

2:32

out to be a firefighter, the whole time burning

2:34

did building sale for, like, twenty years, actually, that

2:36

was make that was you all. Get year old my degree

2:38

in accounting, so when I first started on the job,

2:41

they put me in our subject is lot of arson work

2:43

is based on money insurance

2:45

fraud. Right, yeah, so was a brand new

2:47

age and kind of myself and Glenn the

2:49

Sarah. L. A Fire Department

2:52

arse investigator started that case in

2:54

when you see their case in work for true,

2:56

I was go back for the economy's others were involved

2:58

as well but. Yeah, that guy was one sick individual

3:01

you think of arsonists is weird, solo crazies

3:03

because.

3:04

You. Gotta love burning something down that might

3:06

hurt a lot of people does damage to people

3:08

stuff ruins people's lives, there's

3:10

almost no kind of no obvious

3:13

upside for it if you. Own the building, man,

3:15

yeah, you do some insurance fraud you get by your just bring

3:17

down someone else's building it's just pure

3:19

Korea. For most of them, it ties back

3:21

to like sexual.

3:23

Then. Oh, it's a yell at him more, we

3:25

as lot of studies to have this particular individual

3:27

he was from the most prominent California

3:30

arson investigators and because he wasn't just.

3:32

Firefight, he was Arson Investigator and I work

3:34

scenes with a how wow least

3:36

from one the top five in the country and

3:38

he was starting the sars and the cause we. Do

3:40

our work scenes and work grids to

3:42

look for devices and he was always got fraud, it's

3:45

own retrospect yoga and wonder why

3:47

now I Catholic it was under the. Share

3:49

the whole time and met, how did you find that,

3:51

well, definitely yeah, he put it that right, but

3:53

I'm a huge responsible for the deaths of more

3:55

than one an? Individual in here for the sars

3:57

and some seen our, but yeah, grandmother.

4:00

Then. And are both have killed so far,

4:02

yeah, he's ready to be, he had

4:04

horrible, how do you manage the undercover

4:07

work you were doing with kids because I on

4:09

the? One hand, you almost get blown up with a huge explosion

4:11

when this bomb maker in the book

4:13

right, but how do you tell your kids?

4:15

Matter be around for a while, but also I can't

4:18

tell you what I'm doing, especially when they're teenagers

4:20

like they kind of know.

4:22

But. Then you get of rules right for explaining

4:24

this sort of thing you can be kind of hot and cold

4:26

with it or it won't work we always tried

4:29

our best to. Keep a low profile, the with our

4:31

neighbors the or we did not see that some didn't

4:33

know, I mean, you walk in a house have forgotten

4:35

more of his your. Do wants people to figure things out,

4:37

yeah, but we kept very low profile

4:39

and came to that, and we also have

4:41

raise our kids I don't talk about or mom.

4:43

And dad do in the city comes as you

4:45

hear your keep here because of sensitive

4:48

and in they were pretty good about it, but. This

4:50

was a little bit different. This is like

4:52

dad's gone when he comes home

4:55

via, like, know, if we diversity when he came home,

4:57

you aren't really hot. In retrospect

4:59

thinking back, how could I possibly happen

5:01

because? That is more stressful, been

5:03

away from the gang because you didn't know

5:06

what was happening and that he had reengage with them

5:08

was easier when you were just with a day in day

5:10

out, you see how things develop. Then

5:12

they would hear on been ousted at my wife

5:14

and I there was here comes a that we would have as

5:17

kids, do you do you take their sleeper there?

5:19

That came out when I was able to get home

5:21

and out what your one my daughter's Miami Stars hockey

5:23

games. So I'd was supposed

5:25

to be the head coach of the T, but yeah, those for

5:28

I'd agree to this case. So

5:30

was over adventure, one of the girls said. Hey

5:33

know, Coach, can we hey haven't see while I'm

5:35

like, yeah, I'm sorry working, she's like, oh yeah, we

5:37

were heard you were at a party with ro block oh

5:39

gods, I holy shit? This

5:42

is a big deal like. If that name

5:44

gets out and gets in somebody posts or

5:46

her whatever it is, the whole identity is

5:48

gone and so like simple things

5:50

like down and. So, you know it, our kids

5:53

in my wife and I were also, think we're

5:55

we get his garage, and we talk we just cannot

5:57

talk about this in here because you're here. Like.

6:00

You must or had to have a like baseball

6:02

or what soccer meeting like a. You

6:04

can't tell your kids about this, I know you

6:06

know some staff and you hear since that like this will

6:08

get me killed the or of worse. Did

6:11

you have to manage that summer?

6:12

The folks that I'm sure they speculated

6:15

the parents of players whatever, but I never told

6:17

many said now they could see a look like ship back.

6:20

When I was at games you could see parents are like the other

6:22

team look and crazy shit bag you know

6:24

over there watch it again it.

6:26

easy if you're a my wife my wife would be like

6:29

I. Just want to scream, "Our is federal agent because

6:31

and is keeping you safe in", she's like, "We're gonna supermarket

6:34

in people look at you like your dirt bag and

6:36

and" One point I was in a bag I was in

6:38

the back and came out how to forecast in

6:41

Africa, jacked up, thrown a battle cruiser

6:43

discuss. The new I later learned there

6:45

was a guy, did not robbery, and he was

6:47

like five foot one and, like six three,

6:49

like, he didn't miss anything like me, but I still

6:52

ended up getting jacked up during the and

6:54

the critics so. The so happens

6:56

and eat. out each

6:58

can reflect actually like why am i doing this again

7:00

Yeah. You would second guess the I mean, the

7:02

undercover life has to spill into your home

7:04

life at a little bit, even as decided that

7:06

like I would imagine you can't be. With a bunch

7:09

of guys talking about violence,

7:11

drugs, massage and his staff

7:13

and disgusting activity, and then come home

7:16

and be model citizen

7:18

at home, I assume the language at. least

7:20

the foul language is at the least a

7:22

that to has to spill over into your home life

7:25

and then you're like, wait minute, wait minute I can't do"

7:27

That and for my good. My wife Academy,

7:29

she's okay.

7:30

We. Can't lose you the dark side like is,

7:32

so we were talking when I was describing

7:35

somebody and so much, you know, the

7:37

didn't to fevers balls in his dog,

7:39

lift him. Up and says do

7:42

realize that you just said she does, he say that, like

7:44

you described, some with blonde hair. That

7:46

was your description eating bad, like eating

7:48

sick, that was weird, she's like you can

7:50

not turn into water that and a like. Nah,

7:53

she said, "That's the thing that popped in my head was

7:55

exists, it is, yeah. That concerned

7:57

or, and she always like, was it try?

8:00

The also be like, "hey, remember, keep foot

8:02

in reality, rat obviously I

8:04

did in all worked out, but before

8:06

he does it does give you different view for

8:08

sure when you say, "get lost as a dark side"

8:11

That is mean it degrades the

8:13

way you talk and act as a person or their

8:16

agents that are like, "You know, what this criminal life on make

8:18

it lot of money screw this police things is great,

8:20

I mean, does that ever happened?" The think

8:22

it's for the money.

8:24

I think maybe a lifestyle so we've

8:26

lost people to the dark side like they quit

8:29

law enforcement is that what that means not

8:31

so much nobody the change

8:33

in their personalities ultimately that are

8:35

able to survive on the job anymore. 'Cause

8:37

of choices that they make afterwards and

8:39

so easy I've made real

8:41

concerted effort. You really minor

8:44

that select? When I was in, had

8:46

to every six months go see Frank.

8:49

Before you go in, and then every 6

8:51

months, you get evaluated. It's

8:53

problematic. Cuz you got to come up here,

8:55

but you go, and they

8:58

would evaluate you. And as soon they

9:00

saw wrong, you got to pull him out. I

9:03

always jokes. "The I'm like, okay, if

9:05

could fool two thousand begging for projects

9:07

or one track mind, but my shrek friends

9:09

say now they're smart and that may be on. The detected,

9:12

so don't know the real to that he got the dark side

9:14

don't know, but they do put a lot of

9:16

effort into. Make sure that

9:19

those who are doing this stay healthy and

9:21

stay entrenched in weather and

9:23

near when they come back out to give you transition period

9:26

to get back Neo into normal life again.

9:28

I know you said that there's cover teams

9:31

is nearby where possible, obviously now

9:33

when you're in the top of A. forty story

9:35

building in the projects or whatever as he can't

9:37

do that, but and lot of his bike or south

9:39

man you're out in the middle of what sounds like just

9:41

like it. The middle of the desert and

9:43

a campground ss to or in the woods

9:46

somewhere, I mean, you can't just have

9:48

of a police van with tinted windows

9:50

parked on the side of the road anywhere near

9:53

this thing right now, you see

9:55

an end so. The

9:57

one exception, the tar to years I never wore.

10:00

Why or because?

10:01

There were times the churches were they do all their

10:03

secretive meetings and where they do their

10:05

criminal are planning and things like that's

10:08

a referred to as church. When you

10:10

go to church and this is because they

10:12

learned over the years I'm from prosecution.

10:14

That there's ways to cellphones

10:17

that you can monitor cell phone batteries lot

10:19

so. There were no electronics, large church

10:21

at all. Most cases they had our

10:23

of detectors are picking up for frequency

10:25

of transmitter. They would want you

10:28

to make sure that you didn't have any transfers on. There

10:30

were times where we have stripped naked and we'd

10:32

be sitting these ugly people man and I'm just

10:34

sit in the church naked. They'll

10:37

have an army so that they knew nobody

10:39

could have Patois while in

10:41

so even if committee. The around

10:43

the corner. You know enhanced

10:45

oh wait maybe I see your body get

10:47

dragged around yeah exactly but.

10:50

in most cases they were way too far away anyways

10:52

i mean this time miles away

10:54

so they always joked it was the body recover team

10:56

not really comforting The

10:59

ever teams.

11:00

it get too aggressive in their Too Did?

11:02

They can burn you much money to burn

11:04

yourself. you have to have trust

11:07

those that are out there and they And much I'd

11:09

rather work way of something that have somebody

11:11

come get us into they're me when

11:14

not. The your cover team ever.

11:16

Get you in trouble or come close to it. There

11:19

was only get industry, maybe for two

11:21

year investigation in I will, Caviar,

11:23

so when you were asked certain events like

11:25

if our to a mandatory. The commander

11:27

is process worst experience and we talked

11:29

about that, but. There was lot

11:32

for sit there all every once in new

11:34

law for some his era, so the be flippant I'm off

11:36

posing for photos because he knew the costs are watching

11:38

because it was known that these events or happen. The

11:41

like. Anybody to be there is no from. There

11:44

was night when I was buying

11:47

a couple of crack cocaine, have hard made

11:49

his as one does, yeah, just

11:51

regular Friday night. In his

11:53

source came in delivered

11:55

to crack cocaine and so

11:58

pay them did know I think we're done. A'a

12:00

a not so bright.

12:02

Supervisors. And Crown Vic'a got way too cause

12:04

the classic police car that every kid acting

12:07

as is from age fifteen through the receive

12:09

your life yeah exactly like if you're in that go

12:11

like to have cups of coffee kids you're not

12:13

going to help anyway but way resists conga way

12:16

to close in this guy calls back

12:18

to it was hard man was run crap from The

12:20

was that he goes, "Hey, costs are all over"

12:23

Got. Your place he did this are, you know, what's

12:25

going on over there by law and so I'm

12:27

insane this to me and like a fuck

12:30

this guy he's clearly up costs. On him,

12:32

he brought him, telling me the not brings us back anywhere

12:34

near some keep for to drive the exact

12:36

him up there can be, monsieur. Insert,

12:38

just put it back on him. We

12:41

we had several transaction, are we didn't need to deal with

12:43

him again? Then when I met the cover

12:45

team. Yeah, minimal actor in the morning

12:47

to get that crack cocaine live in

12:49

a who was who was in that car.

12:51

They. Should never be out here again and forty

12:54

was to surprise us as the got something

12:56

out how to be out there, so yeah, that's

12:58

our man, it sucks because it's the.

13:00

Classic boss: Maybe doesn't

13:02

really know what the guy in the ground is

13:04

dealing with except for, and instead of like,

13:06

are you mess up a week of work it's like, oh?

13:08

You got three people killed or you got

13:11

me murdered in front of my. "Colleagues

13:13

and run or just ruins the

13:15

whole case where I was undercover for years

13:17

with these guys run the as notes

13:19

exactly a few months high blood sweat tears go

13:22

into this and. The new things that happen

13:24

all the is likely browser call.

13:26

Whatever. Made you decide do two year

13:28

undercover, you don't go into a know as two years,

13:30

it could be two minutes, you know, I listen didn't sign

13:32

up for two year undercover. Deal that's just what it turned into

13:35

and most of be are lot

13:37

of these as they're progressing along. Stopped

13:40

for different reasons, one, something's gonna happen

13:42

where you have Camaro and Shop. Number

13:44

two, your covered as get blown, it happens regularly.

13:47

Like, is so many things that can happen? That

13:50

would stop it, the fact it very few

13:52

of these run for two years. You're always

13:54

gonna just seen how it's going to play

13:56

out in that's where the a some of this

13:58

dumb luck comes in. And. The

14:01

boys ago make lot of it, but it is sack,

14:03

yeah, I've heard I've had other under covers

14:05

on before Jack Garcia, who had infiltrated

14:07

the mob he was with the F. B. I and he

14:09

basically just abruptly.

14:12

Had. To stop because one of the guys

14:14

use with the saw somebody he hated

14:16

at the mall and picked up like a glass

14:19

centerpiece and hit him in the head with it.

14:21

And he's like, belt theism again, that guy's

14:23

gonna die and I'm standing right here where shopping

14:25

mall and so he was like, "What are you doing

14:27

and he like basically?" I think can't remember

14:30

the exact details, but want to say. The stop

14:32

the guy or he arrested the guy right

14:34

there was like. Yeah, to pull the record

14:36

because this idiot is an impulsive. dumb

14:39

Ass and can't let this guy get be

14:41

to that another criminal actually, and for you know

14:43

it's unfortunate like you can't let this guy get beat

14:45

to death in front. Of me because laws, yeah, in

14:47

there were a couple times, it was one I set out,

14:50

a sergeant arms and are is not sergeant

14:52

arms and two presidents and we're. Headed over to see

14:54

President Bush supporter. He got

14:56

heated, we were gone back in. The

14:59

to presents like going to tell Morgan

15:01

Stand Up on the Rooftop of motel

15:04

and they want to in between

15:06

these two buildings like a 3-foot gap. And they're like we're

15:08

going to out on the case, too. So they're

15:12

gang members in this hotel and I'm like,

15:14

there's no way that I

15:16

can let this for sure. And

15:18

I've got a gun with six rounds. And that's good

15:21

to me whole lot. So

15:23

I'm around, but not on the rooftop, but i I see some

15:25

blue flashing lights way off in the distance and my

15:27

kind of get there. A

15:30

short was I able to use

15:32

their own rules back on here to kill

15:34

it present of another club. You got to

15:36

have my other plug to blast off on that. We

15:39

got to go back and mother cuz we're at minute

15:41

or so. I was that we got to back, get blastoff

15:43

on. Whatever like that, that

15:45

would your name is. "The other present

15:47

was now he's right, let's go, will

15:49

go in that time we were got their

15:52

of on cat cooled off to modify the

15:54

like notice of the way we've handled by measurably

15:56

a voice that like it at twenty years",

15:59

Neutral says. My room.

16:01

Ah. "Man, good the you are such

16:03

a good student, any memorize all these little finalized

16:06

as they have right, yeah, default easier to been lawyer,

16:08

the as fast as I said. Such

16:10

and for says we have to get sign off on

16:12

this, ah, you're right, he's right, yeah,

16:15

man, use your own stuff back against. know

16:18

eventually they put a female agent in as

16:20

your girlfriend, which seems like good idea, cause then

16:22

at least you're not alone right, so

16:24

maybe if they got female agent coming

16:26

in is your girlfriend. He's is like

16:28

another set of eyes, what other benefit

16:30

is their aside from that, you know, lot

16:32

of these cases they would do that week

16:34

cycle somebody in and out as girlfriend.

16:37

This particular case, there was complex one,

16:40

is it got all of these women who

16:42

like? The undercover, but a lot

16:44

of other woman involved in the case always

16:46

hang around, so what have you ever going to be hitting

16:49

on you all time? The answer, like at

16:51

some point. You know, if you don't have

16:53

girlfriend or of was or something

16:55

out there. The only real see know:

16:57

Some task force can start looking weird, kind

16:59

of goes back to like the here's new guy and

17:02

out his earnings season women he

17:04

sat on drugs he's not doing. The to

17:06

alcohol and also be so it just doesn't

17:08

look right. It's when you could have

17:11

female. The car that would

17:13

take that burn away, the problem is on

17:15

female it in tough one of the book is.

17:18

Go along, you go and have female

17:21

who's the over there, but they can't

17:23

be there for lot of suffered, especially when you're prospecting

17:26

than walk, girlfriend's wives or anything, or ah,

17:28

yeah, and even when you remember

17:30

certain of as kick out to him. So

17:32

that limits their ball,

17:35

but they are less scrutinized, know researching

17:37

them. Though is really penitential what

17:39

they're doing. There's also like an

17:41

underground.

17:42

Chatter between old ladies in

17:45

you may get some intel because even though you're not

17:47

supposed talk, you're ladies about anything these guys do, so

17:49

you can get some intel the other option take another

17:51

male. You know, Asian an attack

17:53

many guys were either two, three, four

17:55

people in a chapter. Certainly

17:58

it's bodies might have done it that way. The hit,

18:00

the upside, is usually have normal

18:02

person to talk to, yeah, when you're in there, but

18:04

the other side of it is like. There's so

18:06

many ways your story yet crossed off. When

18:09

you bring other people at because he start asking

18:11

questions like, "Yeah, what it can

18:13

think about this with what it can do last in this

18:15

are checking up on your story to cook is nice, wait

18:17

and see, get you cross that" The

18:20

for me was always okay, I rather just do this on

18:22

my own. If screw

18:24

up, screw up with on me, it is,

18:26

are going to affect nobody but me.

18:31

Jordan, listening to the Jordan Harbinger show with

18:33

our guest Ken Croak, we'll be right back

18:35

the. Is. Episode is sponsored in part by

18:37

Mel Science: I grew up learning science

18:39

through boring textbooks like many of you, also

18:41

took apart a lot things in the house

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21:26

Man. I the guys are so violent,

21:28

many of whom are rapists and murderers like you

21:30

could to have, don't know, guess our old ladies

21:32

are probably off limits, but maybe.

21:35

"They don't care, maybe they're too high and methamphetamine,

21:37

and they just go after her, and you're like great now

21:40

sees with the guy who eats dead

21:42

things with the blood", said. As alone in a

21:44

room somewhere and she does never phone

21:47

or they take it out on her if they don't like you, I don't

21:49

know, does that happen you all that? Absolute it out, but.

21:51

When you're a full patch, they also

21:53

give you property tax and so,

21:56

if you remember you have property gotcha,

21:58

we say probably slam and. Then. Go to

22:00

my girlfriend, wife or whatever it is they're

22:03

protected if you will now is that

22:05

I wouldn't take it to the back, but it's better off

22:07

the not but the. bulk fear of good

22:09

part of this investigation, you're not cast member,

22:11

so there is no property that there is no protection

22:14

and there's one meeting where

22:16

some always have a do. It's of soften one of

22:18

the medical never get really pissed, okay, I'm

22:20

sick tie these old ladies in their

22:23

friends, cause another prompt, remember

22:25

this reason beat him till we.

22:27

Don't care, but they are not going to be Cassidy,

22:30

the like lane this out is it puts you

22:32

at risk in book I talk about one

22:34

something happened that. Was in it was one hundred percent

22:36

my fault where had by

22:39

undercover girlfriend there and

22:41

was not a cat I've been kicked out of the club and

22:43

I get. Kicked out for nothing that did, the National

22:46

Vice President who vouched for me. Had

22:49

tried a coup, tried gum national presence,

22:51

and I for four accidents was that about

22:53

mother to for. He gets be out

22:55

of the club severely and then everybody who

22:57

had. That he had sponsored got kicked

22:59

out to clubs, wow. Though was out

23:01

nothing to do with me. And quite honestly, was

23:04

done, just wanted home, go back to

23:06

my normal life. It's approximates

23:08

me just gotta hang around suit up at the news

23:10

are so short. ended up down at

23:12

is mandatory as a civilian,

23:14

not anything with for. We're

23:16

in lot of going to compound of, we're all the pigs

23:19

were because I wasn't paid, but. From

23:21

the president's had a motel nearby

23:23

and to were over there and people hanging. The

23:26

left her. There was some old

23:28

ladies and in the room I was

23:30

a fraud.

23:31

Peter walked up to me with Sergeant R. A.

23:33

want talk to you. They go take a walk,

23:36

which was an adult. So

23:38

we start walking full,

23:40

I realize that we're we go in

23:43

like. felt like a risk as leading

23:45

me away. So I get fit my stomach

23:47

around like our shit in, we blocked like

23:49

a fair distance, says, "Hey,

23:51

I can be quicker and so called.

23:54

The female, our mission, an answer

23:56

her farm, and as it turns out and shoot

23:58

front of ivory, which. What are we always did

24:01

but? Then. City or a bit so

24:03

when she the wrestler hear some

24:05

Sydney I call multiple times and I'm like cannot

24:08

believe let these guys lower me away so

24:10

I. Very awkward these can go

24:12

back to your Salmonella, we were not that

24:15

whole lot and I'm not going to go in there was no stopping

24:17

me was. Gone because if you get this is one sexy,

24:19

if you have to my role like don't know what the

24:21

hell's happening here back there. Though.

24:24

Try not to run by I'm walking

24:26

is as can. In

24:29

a get back in the doors, it was over

24:31

when I left, it was not always causes a jar,

24:33

but nothing much as I went for storm

24:35

expectancy were. It up as

24:37

much as mere all ages and in there and talk.

24:41

He was what he was, a heat you lose, you get them

24:43

off, and then he fiat elective procedures,

24:45

yeah. Because you just scared you just

24:47

happy that the there, but that's not how comes across

24:49

Rice, it's I did, I'm like what the hell used

24:51

to inform you of our it was Salami never

24:54

should have.

24:55

Walk out of that right never see them less that area

24:57

which is gonna you know it mistaken I made

24:59

luckily be of nobody got hurt

25:01

because although. it's in character for

25:03

you to be kind of an asshole to your girlfriend is an

25:06

outlaw biker guy right or yell or in front

25:08

of her friends totally in it was totally

25:10

not even acting but again it was mostly i

25:12

was yelling at myself yeah because never

25:15

you know do better should never How?

25:17

Do you weigh keeping your cover versus someone

25:19

else as well being ride the grosses guy in the

25:21

book later on or one of the girl it's hard even

25:23

keep a straight? They're all discussing right, but he tells

25:25

you, oh, there's this girl hanging out at the tattoo

25:27

shop was like young student, right, and

25:30

it's biker own tattoo shop and. Is like I'm in brutally

25:32

rape and murder this woman because I want

25:34

you and your life that could have

25:37

torn you out of the year roll right

25:39

as you have. To make sure that this is and girl doesn't

25:41

have that happened to her I'm upset it, it

25:43

would have, you know, get it comes back to just kind

25:45

of thinking real. Quickly like okay what can do

25:47

and this one was Castillo developing over

25:49

a period of probably couple. weeks

25:52

because it started with The very attractive

25:54

art major. Comes by the

25:56

just presence tattoos, yeah. He

25:59

really.

26:00

It did ours, but she didn't know how to tattoos

26:02

big difference, three draw in it, and then actually

26:04

chair putting out some skin. There's. Use Air

26:06

Canada as an apprentice so easy

26:09

worked with a legitimately, but there was full

26:11

of hang as you were there and they're like trying

26:13

to flirt with any was comical. For me at the beginning

26:15

because of sit back and it was like big so

26:17

friend tattoo shop, and I'm looking I'm

26:19

like you idiots like go look in mirror.

26:21

And the go look at this girl's like you really think

26:24

you have snowball's chance in hell was getting

26:26

there, but then it went from being

26:28

funny to like, oh, it. Is hard

26:30

man started talking and he have

26:32

started getting more aggressive, are you saying

26:34

uttered, sir? The way you look at

26:36

it. I'm. Like man, this dude

26:39

like he's had that cough and then he receives

26:41

okay almond rates, girl amro,

26:43

yeah, we talk about what he said, dude or up in

26:46

size act will. Jobs Yamanaka, like

26:48

some people, may talk to that stuff, yeah,

26:50

but that with this guy I would never put it past

26:52

him and so was going away drop signed

26:54

up. So I'd approach shirt is one,

26:56

a couple things are you do is come I wrote a goals

26:59

and our or I try to get her to go away

27:01

so approach. Are obviously said hey listen could

27:03

get myself in a world of troubled by Italia

27:05

this I said but you need your.

27:08

not safe here Heart. Med's very

27:10

focused on you in this is not an end well for you

27:12

need to wish I'd be need to leave

27:14

can the next three minutes but like when.

27:16

You leave that don't come back in her because

27:18

it was easy enough to just be around or mixture

27:20

of, was it happen? In her credit,

27:22

she did leave never sar damn smart,

27:25

she was gone up so she went to another tattoo

27:27

parlor, got her friend.

27:29

You guys are obvious crease right, it's not like this

27:31

guy was undercover to a non blood clots

27:34

and all the stuff that he was doing. So.

27:36

You see, probably already had bad vibe from, and then

27:38

you coming and being like, "Yeah, this guy isn't just

27:40

gross guy that we can sort of like wave off"

27:43

And she's like at was already on the fence, see

27:45

it ever and just can see how people looking at you,

27:47

you this like looking at you like, hopeful

27:50

is looking at" You like you're piece of meat and

27:52

then what it turned into for. There's

27:55

war between the paganism, the hell's angels among

27:57

other gangs right in their deal and guns these illegal

27:59

guns. The balance. The whole time

28:01

you're making huge list of crimes, right? What's?

28:04

The most intense are severe felony you had front

28:06

row seat for was it some of these bomb threats

28:08

and things like that, the merger spheres he was

28:10

probably the base. Where they were talking

28:13

about how they wreck kill certain people

28:15

in it like Farm with Hell's Angels,

28:17

and they had very specific ways you're going about

28:19

it in there some recordings. At really laid out.

28:22

There. Have been how they're gonna do it me

28:24

some, it was response, they had the bombs

28:26

we ultimately ended up getting some of them may have

28:28

for the case is overdone, but. It was gun

28:31

trafficking drug trafficking Vi Carpio

28:33

beatings like this whole string of

28:35

offensive, a know eventually became rico case

28:38

and properties such as I organized

28:40

crime case, right? Exactly, and

28:42

so he of the point like "Devi"

28:44

some days, it's not a lot was gonna have day's

28:46

be like five of the things going on and as

28:48

you get. Later in the case, it's like, okay? The

28:51

have to share of these sharks, spy getting this

28:53

conversation, so like if you had bodyguard

28:55

static we're. Every. Carrying gun

28:57

in defensive felon who carry guns

28:59

at federal sat, but yeah,

29:02

sure that they do not personally seabiscuit

29:04

have that conversation with them somehow

29:07

getting them to. Say or acknowledge that

29:09

they do this person was felt so like

29:11

some of those things to try to tie up loose ends

29:13

of case because he get to the and and. Then you have to

29:15

freshen up the PC for the wants PC

29:18

probable cause right that's

29:20

pretty translate for with no problem man

29:22

some is get it is but.

29:24

you would be yeah like i'd be in truck or

29:26

says who's one of the at the brothers

29:28

roadblock our men and drucker It

29:31

is our governor, but the I see it must

29:33

force in August figure out a way to go back

29:35

to Trucker South Seas, their guns still intercourse

29:37

ask me knows cases get closer to

29:39

come down. Then. Like lot of that

29:41

kind of activity as you move

29:43

along and kind of put in as good as already

29:45

knew that to build case in

29:48

this, there's plenty of. People to actually do some who

29:50

could have charge you are charts, but there's

29:52

some, their the didn't do anything illegal, so it's like,

29:54

okay, that's fine too, you knock on. In with the

29:57

army to get the twenty guys in the shaft and

29:59

now. I'm going to go and get whoever is doing

30:01

what they're doing and. Document.

30:03

I'm tribe for together saw get so

30:06

for people who are maybe not American or their

30:08

law background is not up to snuff probable

30:10

cause is what police have when. They say, "hey, I

30:12

see something illegal or smell something illegal

30:14

in your car, nominate, search your car.

30:16

You. Need that he get a warrant, so what you're

30:18

talking about is if you saw gotten some

30:20

with house eight months ago and it's illegal

30:23

and maybe had bunch of drugs. In safe and some

30:25

cash you can't say, hey, eight months ago, this

30:27

guy had some in there, you have to find

30:29

reason to go back in the house look. In there

30:31

again, when he's not looking, make sure that stuff is

30:33

still in there, then you can go back to the prosecutor,

30:36

the judge, whatever, and say that stuff still

30:38

in. There I just saw a couple days ago

30:40

the warrant, if we go, we searches you're probably going

30:42

to find it, and then that makes the warrant holed up in

30:44

court when. The prosecuting because otherwise. You.

30:46

Can absorb thing you could even find it, and

30:49

then they say what is probable causes kind of nonsense,

30:51

he saw something almost year ago on

30:53

that you got warrant. You went in there yet you found

30:55

it, but that's called fruit of the poison tree, and it's

30:57

so that police don't overstepped their bounds

30:59

and it can really screw up A. Cases I'm sure you've

31:02

seen and probably had happened before

31:04

sure the I that's really what so not

31:06

a single one these individuals, what's trial

31:08

the emphasis overwhelming but the majority of. Fall

31:11

motions as much to Neko are

31:13

you describing? In hopes

31:15

of been added stress of the evidence. Yeah.

31:18

In the and the other words, if I phone the

31:20

up like yours amazed at how

31:22

cheap it is to have some of these crimes done,

31:24

it really is dirty deeds done. dirt cheap for

31:26

some of these guys that there was one example in

31:28

the book where think he said he wanted to blow up someone's

31:31

boat, could they poured sugar in?" Your gas tank,

31:33

discover nonsense story in the skies

31:35

like, "Yeah, no problem I've got a grenade

31:37

or homemade bomb or something", and he's like. Wow,

31:40

blow up this guy's boat with you with

31:42

an explosive, which is like, you know, decades

31:44

long sell any to have an explosive use it to

31:46

blow something up, wanted like three hundred

31:48

bucks to do it right, yeah, so that

31:51

the whole story though is. The wasn't

31:53

really charge and doublet, but what it was his.

31:55

We knew they had the what they refer to

31:57

discuss interests we knew they were bought a

31:59

head. Yeah, and I didn't know where they were, so

32:02

came up with the story like if was in New York and just ridiculous

32:05

want to go blow up your. Then.

32:07

Problem is that gonna go block George like I'm on

32:09

a know about images can go, Duke has it

32:11

occurred to me fail, so I had to have an

32:13

environment where I. Could control so far

32:15

my cover stores and posts last, it

32:17

allowed me to few dozen could go,

32:20

they have gone out poaching the contract because

32:22

was on the. Water. That. Will likely go

32:24

home of yeah, because he said whatever his eyes

32:26

so part of the story was hate, you

32:28

know, the soldiers in it's true he

32:31

of you get caught posted. Losses, which after the last

32:33

may come along as not shocking, Blasio

32:36

that he gets a series poaching lobsters,

32:38

is what you got to somebody else is traps and you to send.

32:40

The amount steal his cats get take

32:42

the last years and so what I've seen as I was out

32:44

approach. Get into his battle with so

32:46

the guy and it was lost or sure as he for

32:48

children in the my detects my book. Than

32:51

the for a riot. I want to blow

32:53

up and so when told that

32:56

to Israel. The here, maybe

32:58

of the help you. So

33:00

I'm like will hate every grade which has got a little

33:02

bit, but we aren't it out we didn't have

33:04

any set plan to do this, but I knew that

33:06

he was a good be able to go and use it on

33:08

somebody in New York something I could try. Long.

33:11

Story short: Get another part of my back story

33:13

is that did clutches my boss the at least

33:15

months of numbers into things and would

33:17

have to collect as. get a piece that action here,

33:20

like collecting money from gamblers or something

33:22

like the right exactly, this is the more of

33:24

like this small town criminal stuff, the more

33:26

legitimate. It makes you been. It's. A part

33:28

of that was we set us up where

33:31

a prestigious, but I said it out that

33:33

was doing these collections and that is always going

33:35

to come with me. Also, it's sake collections

33:37

to like "Boost Your It's Like Street Theater

33:39

stuff", right that's exactly what a street theater

33:41

and it builds my credibility and so

33:44

he comes up to do. This and in it still

33:46

has danger to A because if he goes, it does a crazy

33:49

that's an agent that I put in that recital,

33:51

said a black I did. This with me. Then

33:53

got your hands, he and threw him out, he never did

33:55

he get you do one thing that tell you not to do.

33:58

In your own answer is a God. The would have

34:00

you are going to do, you know where I use you as you can pay

34:02

him, come on a box the for do. Though,

34:05

and with he comes up into immediate and

34:07

ninety nine Russia was it come up

34:09

with it was up to Boston area. So when

34:11

the night restaurant have beer we're eat

34:13

something and just bout down inside

34:15

like take a. Then I go on the bathroom,

34:18

he falls me unless you're weird,

34:20

but then he's a cat stand behind zero like

34:22

is really some weird, so have you nicer

34:24

to do on during an archer, I got one of

34:26

those a long term scotia the oil slick

34:28

ones. The way to turn he like the like

34:30

flasher, which opened his jacket

34:33

and he's got bomb in the in their pockets

34:35

of the jack and I'm like holy shit. You've

34:37

got his bomb inside his roster. Like

34:40

that's like kid has, oh, my. A

34:42

role like muscles get outta here man we don't want

34:44

because that's a hellish ice want him to hell

34:47

with most people yeah got him I say

34:49

go me backtrack so of is bill

34:51

so he went out and it every sale pay the bills

34:53

are going around the door anyway so. i

34:55

go pay the bill real quick and get up out there

34:57

and i'm like hey we at work to do maybe qb driver allison

35:00

into the did have one as big star from dr

35:02

jones cup so keep the by put it into

35:04

the car and left it might be a possible

35:07

to your be There we did, I

35:09

say, make his phone calls went out to D.C. c of

35:11

the street theater, and I say

35:13

this in the boats, the results a psychologist

35:16

wait know like I can ask them, and he's we

35:18

offer decks, leave, sit on the dock for days

35:20

waiting for and come back. The gossip

35:22

now I'm like listen, got my boss,

35:24

he'll give you three hundred bucks for, and then

35:26

I'll just take care of whatever comes back in or

35:28

he'll take care of himself. These are

35:31

cool, he gets three hundred bucks, right? So

35:33

the argument, three hundred bucks, he leaves me with the

35:35

bahasa, you saw the to get easier,

35:38

so to me, so now least we knew

35:40

it, this is our source of rappers, the of was

35:42

a legit device, but when we got back

35:44

to New York and we had church. Roadblock

35:47

use, yeah, one more intelligent of

35:49

the crew. He got wind of what

35:52

happened to ensure it's he's like

35:54

as. Where's Bar? I'd

35:56

like to use software. The

35:59

right? New lease or takes.

36:02

The like cost that cops

36:04

denounce good shit, he thinks I'm cop. What

36:06

is it turned out, this story of the conversation

36:09

went like for another minute? He thought

36:11

my boss was got it

36:13

so. He's all day was like the,

36:15

how do you know that he used it in soft about, how

36:17

do you know that I know, and like was biggest

36:19

know die? Then get photos

36:21

of town.

36:22

That. "We get where was all good pitches that he's a get

36:24

the from bitches about any goes if I

36:27

end up in a jail cell", he pointed

36:29

me in Israel, is if? You to get pray

36:31

to God enough the shell anywhere near because I would kill

36:33

both he is, he was hot that the

36:35

other devices got left behind, so did

36:37

you? Get the picture that me, how did you manage that

36:40

edges kind of strong in law for little bit eventually,

36:42

so the nice guys it's like if it

36:44

doesn't happen right away? Soccer happened, so

36:47

think his time in we never talked about it, so

36:49

was like, in ten days itself, good

36:51

about it, nobody get arrested.

36:53

As. Time went by, I just stopped bringing it up

36:55

the he brought a couple times on the gay I'm working on and

36:58

make it happen and next I'm at work, but then.

37:00

He just kind of dropped and ideas more because

37:02

nobody went to jail for so he's

37:04

like, "Okay, yeah, that they were going to rest

37:06

as they had done it by now" Right like, and nine hundred

37:08

set the answer.

37:12

This is the Jordan Harbinger show with our guest,

37:14

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for the rest of my conversation with Ken Croak.

40:12

And.

40:15

You always mentioned during your interactions with these guys

40:17

that they might know you're a cop where they might have suspicion

40:20

and you're worried about them obviously shooting

40:22

are telling you. That's one example,

40:24

there was another one: we are moving dead body in the

40:26

woods and you're like all man is added, comedic

40:28

described for myself, do you think

40:31

that? These guys were actually suspicious,

40:33

or was this just your mind playing tricks

40:35

on you because of the pressure was good combination

40:38

right, you know, and sorry, my space you?

40:40

Always have to have you got you always have to

40:42

be thinking what is now.

40:44

the moved the body without get to

40:46

florida story to be swell

40:49

We learned from posts are s

40:51

interviews that they had gotten

40:53

suspicious and. It. Was

40:55

never really clear what it was a trip, them that

40:57

they felt was suspicious, but I

40:59

just bought drugs officers, yeah, exactly

41:02

and cover us, and go back inside

41:04

the. House actually put the drugs way and my came out

41:06

as a group of the pays for the driveway, and you how you

41:08

walk out know it was talking about your mood.

41:11

is i'll stop talking and so

41:13

the happened as what the hell's going on? We

41:16

later learned that they had thought that something

41:18

has happened that I was coffers former no

41:20

matter which is worse and your day one

41:23

if they figure copper and form. The

41:25

deal is because they've got we've de

41:27

Vito one hundred when you've got charges

41:29

on three quarters of them that's not

41:32

going and as easily. So,

41:34

you know, is it went on a cell, the more

41:36

secure? That I was. In

41:38

your house where got more more, more

41:41

of the heavy hitting things were going on

41:43

the in the gang, which. That raises

41:45

stakes, which makes it more difficult to stay.

41:48

What made you finally pulled the trigger

41:50

on this one and has every one arrested? What

41:52

was sort of like they're all right here's the flag

41:55

like neither do this. I mean, you have so

41:57

the message goes, are you have all these different?

42:00

Some. Of them are like things that they did

42:02

that you put you in a bad spot like the, oh,

42:04

I started my have to kill a guy to unlock other

42:06

stuff was. Just the dumb luck york he dodged

42:08

bullet, yeah, and message you when I got kicked

42:10

out of the club was video guard duty

42:13

out front of the clubhouse. get you're gonna

42:15

clubs are of she was, can be don't guard so

42:17

sergeant are so there. And

42:19

the hell's angels rolled up because they surround the

42:21

club. If need be discharged

42:24

are with all the hammer service

42:26

fee he got my father than that shit

42:28

have been me if had got kicked out like

42:30

dumb luck get kicked out there's. another

42:32

is right and not too long after that when

42:35

Sergeant arms, we've been on this big

42:37

run, the security of it. The way it works

42:39

is the highest ranking rights front left

42:42

the next eyes and works it's way our way back to back

42:44

attack. So we got back in the

42:47

Japs Resonated, said: "Hey, are men,

42:49

slam, need you guys go pick this up with somehow

42:51

deeper. So pull our

42:54

on the Sergeant arms, he's the guy

42:56

stressed. started out as image before

42:58

it doesn't have a stash if the president's allies

43:00

and out of prison and he was. Though.

43:04

I pull front left in highest rank, should be right

43:06

front. He pulls out like a Rami

43:08

into the other way traffic to get over

43:10

to my last and song like "Whatever may

43:12

have maple is biker", I'll give rat's ass or right

43:14

front left from right would have made you arrive from Alaska.

43:17

We don't get quarter mile down the road. And

43:20

minivan squatters on the road and

43:22

it wasn't as far as the main event for him, slabs

43:24

of he goes out, the bring back to life,

43:26

the as code knowledge to three times in the on the way

43:29

the hospital. It at the hospital.

43:31

That should have me if he had done what he

43:33

had done, absolute of the main event because

43:35

I. The was like Russian roulette, you know, at some

43:38

point. But the real driver

43:40

is further, you get into this, the more trusted

43:42

you are. They. Signed me to this

43:44

hit squad inside the game's, most

43:46

of the gang members don't even know that this group

43:49

exists within minutes selected

43:51

by modify members of

43:53

what they consider be. Their heavy hitters in

43:55

the ones that could do the real damn dirty work in

43:57

so Hellboy who's next.

44:00

In the bucket, good approach me

44:02

that, hey, they wanted to be partners. We

44:04

were you can be charting hell's angels and

44:06

are would be killed. Then. You have that

44:09

and you have that lost control than I had gotten

44:11

arrested during the case with you really got

44:13

arrested with a gun by the local gang

44:15

task force and. So the

44:18

I spent time in jail, but that he was

44:20

going to the courts and that,

44:22

and of itself, so it's like the fuses burning

44:24

like at some point is how. To come down. The

44:27

same time we had other elements of the cries

44:29

of, we had a proves it was I. The chicken

44:31

or the egg were like scrambles Afghan had

44:33

to get all the evidence together and, like I was

44:35

originally, was twelve. The Christmas,

44:37

then it went to June. One

44:40

was a real date like I actually thought was going

44:42

to be out at that point and then it gets a junior

44:44

in so October and that's

44:46

somewhat demoralize to. His yeah,

44:48

know if I'm even my family, my family suspect know he's

44:50

gonna be home now since I got a former.

44:53

cancel All the summer plans, yeah, exactly,

44:56

so after all these guys get busted, aren't

44:58

you worried that then they're going to try and kill

45:00

you because I would imagine it's unsettling?

45:02

Knowing that, like thirteen hundred scumbag

45:04

bikers want to kill you in the most

45:06

painful way they can imagine, and also

45:09

their patrons support clubs to probably

45:11

have your photo similar, yeah? Those

45:13

twenty photos were out there, but they

45:15

yeah they did for to contract out on the after

45:17

he's kinda one of them.

45:20

They've actually I have a gorilla details on

45:22

the recording of that hit did

45:24

not come out, but it was an act of corpses

45:26

they do lose lot of protection. Put

45:29

into place there was agents at my house

45:31

for months afterwards, but there are lot

45:33

of other safeguards and also.

45:36

The minor. This was never former

45:38

star these games is water reformation, it comes

45:40

out to Ah forces. Crossing to this

45:42

day still monitor all that activity.

45:45

And. anytime something comes out or reference

45:47

or anything to us, I get notified, the

45:50

she looks into it, and you know

45:52

investigates it, so it's part of what

45:54

you do and there's" Also, will say, for

45:56

some of them, yet obviously they were

45:58

mad enough to put it hit out on me. Others.

46:00

Are like a that's the job like better

46:02

to be coffin informant, I think, because it

46:04

leaves with a cop, it's year job and know I

46:06

hate these doing his. Job: They were doing our job,

46:08

so it's a little bit of both, but yeah, you always

46:10

you're very where your surroundings and in you try

46:12

to do what you can to. Minimize.

46:14

Are you worried about it at all now, I mean, it's been like ten

46:16

years, but some of those guys are still probably the gang

46:19

doing stuff and probably higher ranking now,

46:21

right, yeah, and the in the still some that er jo

46:23

that will get out? don't know that you ever

46:25

have totally relaxed about it.

46:27

That are live, my life look at on my shoulder either I've

46:29

got all of my life than the elected,

46:31

as much time has passed, some of them

46:33

it at some are still active.

46:36

You just year he'll realize, yeah, you

46:38

try to be smart about it and know that your age she's

46:40

got your back in the saw you really do.

46:43

Once. You're a part of big operation like this, I

46:45

assume you can't you undercover work again or guess

46:47

you've met like thousands of scum bags

46:49

and for over the years. Like someone could easily recognize

46:52

you at this point after all that time in a game

46:54

or while I did undercover work after the so

46:57

the as not have said it. Depends

46:59

on the cake, so I've done

47:01

is as a shock they all under Reagan,

47:03

so there wasn't any big dramatic trial, they

47:05

had lot of media coverage to

47:08

you. Can have the symbols of case it generates

47:10

whole lot of me or whether be media

47:12

center of his shooting in their kind of covers

47:15

years, cause silos, I mean, did.

47:17

Under cover for. When years and

47:19

was able to do that, successful. Now

47:21

writing this book in if will now Java,

47:24

yeah, it was over anyways, but if it wasn't,

47:26

it would be no.

47:27

You're. Retired now, right, I have, you

47:30

must still have that act's handle and those

47:32

pagan because the leather jacket

47:34

in the patches and stuff in the rain all sf

47:36

rise of others. That the as all locked away

47:38

in a bank vault or it, but yeah, I actually

47:40

did more for training purposes because a

47:43

lot of stuff means this message

47:45

behind why the. Past as well as I think so. That

47:47

we go off wasn't Bruce Alpha test, bring that

47:50

out.

47:51

If people are hey thematic pritchard,

47:53

you would any cause I'm like the rapper,

47:55

so the day I came out swore I'd never put it on

47:57

again and around. Yeah, don't blame

47:59

me up.

48:00

Don't blame you at all, it's not your dressing up as

48:02

somebody you admire that's not a hated

48:04

wearing one out of work, so why would I worms

48:06

don't? That is other people be like a tragic

48:08

pitch with cause I'm like.

48:10

That ever gets out good luck is not going

48:12

and well for you because you know they take the stuff

48:14

really serious. There there is a training

48:16

guy behind.

48:17

They're. Not at not only them taking a picture was

48:19

something that are supposed to be wearing, put your

48:22

is definitely like how so not only

48:24

are you are it's of the as. Those who were and it's the one from

48:26

the undercover target put away like, "Yeah,

48:29

I have a dozen of our Brethren,

48:31

yes, like the worst version you could find, yeah.

48:34

What do you miss about the biker world now that you're completely

48:36

out of the game, there's gotta be something?

48:38

The now know will sit here people

48:40

ask me up at like eighty, so right people ask

48:43

you, did your I before e I absolutely dead

48:45

end when came out of this case saw

48:47

Bye Bye? Than did, rifle

48:49

lockers anchors, it took away the

48:51

front of right. Writing at one hundred

48:53

ten miles an hour to feed off person for any you

48:55

one gear down south on, it's not

48:58

relaxing by his such the imagination and

49:00

it's just got burnt out on. I've

49:02

gone back in writing and so that that's been a good

49:04

thing. I really don't maybe a little

49:06

bit of the chess match of,

49:08

you know, how year city Julie

49:10

putting together your case. The try

49:12

to stay one step ahead. No, I've

49:14

moved on. I'm glad I did it a

49:16

when do it again. And I hope

49:19

others do. That's why teaching

49:21

talk to offers and curse because think it's one

49:23

the few ways you get to the hierarchy the shock

49:25

collars because. Without been

49:27

a part of the group, you know, can get.

49:29

The you don't even miss the barbecues also did

49:31

have some good food.

49:33

There's a couple of that particular roadblock

49:35

who picture of now he kept with every

49:37

the of the worst green so as by like

49:39

is so good but the. do fucker

49:42

It. Is still to this day the best brisket

49:44

of erasure, yeah, I can just imagining

49:47

like a, you think this mess as good as it's

49:49

gonna try to brisket size, Bruce, yeah.

49:51

That was in that was one day could ease much as was

49:53

always a good thing as he wanted and embarrassing

49:56

thing don't ever go to size food

49:58

buffet. With these guys because you like. Then. Animals

50:00

are either just the facts of the suit slide

50:02

everywhere says it's ugly using their hands

50:05

aggressive ad exile,

50:07

I guess man of catchy puts you on thank

50:09

you so much. This is fascinating, South really,

50:11

in a thank you for what you did as well, I'm sure that we

50:13

are safer of not having some of these

50:15

horrendous human beings out in.

50:17

Society even if they are detached from

50:19

society and I appreciate me on

50:22

the of the tell my story I've.

50:25

got some thoughts on this episode but before i

50:27

get into that wanted to give you a preview of

50:29

one of my favorite stories from an earlier

50:31

episode of the show with jon him and as she

50:34

was the chief of disguise for the cia

50:36

and moscow during the latter part of the cold

50:38

war we really get into the weeds and how

50:40

they hid people and hid spy gear in

50:42

one of the most hostile espionage environments

50:44

anywhere in the world The

50:47

inventor technology that didn't either.

50:49

Get the small battery threats since there

50:51

in or watches in our phones, all

50:53

of that stuff today.

50:55

They're kind of like cue from James

50:57

Bond, but it's the CIA we

50:59

could create any kind of character over

51:01

your face masks, it came out

51:03

of Hollywood with a great.

51:08

The orders were and. That he knows everybody

51:10

in the cafeteria.

51:12

And they would go and discover that no one

51:14

any attention to them, you go

51:16

wow. hiding and they,

51:19

were following us just every

51:21

minute Officer, what's

51:24

that? The car the driver was hit a bit.

51:26

The everyone. The

51:29

guy that had just left trailing surveillance

51:32

wouldn't come around the corner. The mackerel.

51:35

I never know. Get to those

51:37

people never next.

51:40

The majority of the first a light

51:43

on doing really, valuable

51:46

agent said our three hours, and

51:48

then as you give me the ability to. take an

51:51

insult

51:55

The LPL we're in the future

51:57

as a movie.

52:08

For more, was shot him and as including some incredible

52:10

spy stories that will really purge your ears,

52:12

check out episode Three: forty Four" of

52:15

the Jordan Harbinger So.

52:18

Man, this episode was so good, a lot of rules

52:21

for being an undercover and staying alive

52:23

or in the book, but one that I remember.

52:25

Keep your first name and then you make

52:27

up in easy last name to remember also

52:29

you have to be able to explain quirks like

52:31

in Ken's case he grew up

52:33

around Boston and when he gets drunk

52:35

have Boston accent comes out, so he had to be

52:37

ready to explain. Why?

52:40

He says certain things a certain way, heat you have

52:42

to keep lot of your life exactly the same

52:44

as it actually is, so that if

52:46

you get wasted or something. Happens

52:48

where something comes out new emergency

52:51

you don't get made right away, you can explain it

52:53

away. There's also telling you that there was actually

52:56

full background check and application

52:58

to become pagan, which is kind of funny. It.

53:01

Makes sense right, it is ironic that this outlaw

53:03

biker gang that slings math and murders

53:05

people's like, "Wow, we want to make sure that

53:08

you have record I actually it's" Not a clean

53:10

record, it is dirty record right, we

53:12

want to make sure you have been arrested, especially

53:14

for violent crime and ideal you've been to

53:16

prison before May be. Multiple times,

53:18

but you better have good credit score and just

53:20

imagining how that process goes

53:23

in practice. While and the gang,

53:25

he found that he could order explosives

53:27

really easily from guys in the gang

53:29

who would then make bombs, which is really,

53:32

really scary, and it's miracle

53:34

we don't have more crazy explosions

53:36

and. While the violence in this country

53:39

and I think it's because of guys like can grow. always

53:41

wondered, of course, how big these gangs

53:43

actually are turns out they're pretty

53:46

huge surge seen a hundred

53:48

people are in the pig and or were

53:50

in the pagan, including prospect. That

53:52

is an enormous amount of guys and also

53:55

I don't think that includes all their little

53:57

satellite clubs in theater clubs

53:59

and. Like that help them with some other stuff,

54:02

thirteen hundred guys in one

54:04

gang, and think there are six of these major motorcycle

54:07

club gang, so there's no shortage of extremely

54:10

violent nomadic criminals. Rolling

54:12

around our highways, also just cannot

54:15

imagine mentioned this on the show, balancing

54:17

this type of undercover operation with having a family

54:20

life as well having two kids my own and, like, "How

54:22

do you?" Do. A meth drop

54:25

and a firearm pickup to get couple

54:27

grenades or whatever to blow up somebody's boat,

54:29

and then you're on three day bender and

54:31

then you got to. Go to pickup, meeting and under fifteen

54:33

soccer game the next day and look somewhat

54:35

normal and presentable, I mean, how on

54:37

earth do you do that something's got? A give.

54:40

And. Also told me that the longer an undercover operation

54:43

goes on, the more dangerous it becomes,

54:45

I know, we touched on this during the show there's more

54:47

chances to blow your cover. But also, like

54:49

you said during the interview, is they signed up your

54:51

A pop on day one, they just they

54:53

get ready you, but if they find out you're a cop.

54:55

After year. They're. gonna kill you,

54:58

and it's probably not going to be fast,

55:00

also the bureaucracy inside law

55:02

enforcement agencies gets to become more and

55:04

more as cases go on and people", said

55:06

A. Micro managed things and new people to me an

55:08

awful experience: people go out and stuff like that,

55:10

those changes they can get you hurt

55:13

or killed so many really

55:15

thankful that. People like ten croak

55:17

are out there working on our side

55:19

or we would really be at the mercy of

55:21

these kinds of criminals, which is really scary

55:23

thought. Links to all things Ken Croak

55:25

will be on the Web site in the show notes at Jordan

55:27

Harbinger, Dot. com. Please. Use are website

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you can also connect with me on linton I always enjoy

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good conversation with a fan, don't forget I'm

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going be interviewing author Ryan Holiday live

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in person in Los Angeles at the Venice

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56:01

love to see there in person tickets are available

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Slash Tickets That's Jordan Harbinger Dot.

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com Slash Tickets Again June thirteenth

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Los Angeles at the Venice. West, that's me

56:12

and Ryan Holiday live on stage, hope

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to see there speaking of connecting I'm teaching

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you how to do the same, connecting with great people and managing

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and tiny habits that do every day put

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that all into a course, Jordan Harbinger, Dot.

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