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1:28

Welcome to Skeptical Sunday. I'm your host,

1:30

Jordan Harbinger. Today I'm with Skeptical Sunday

1:32

co-host Michael Regilio, whose name is impossible

1:34

to spell. Good luck finding him on Instagram.

1:37

On the Jordan Harbinger Show, we decode the

1:39

stories, secrets, and skills of the world's most

1:42

fascinating people and turn their wisdom into practical

1:44

advice that you can use to impact your

1:46

own life and those around you. Our mission

1:48

is to help you become a better informed,

1:50

more critical thinker. During the week,

1:52

we have long-form conversations with a variety

1:54

of amazing folks, from spies to CEOs,

1:56

athletes, authors, thinkers, performers. On Sundays, though,

1:58

we have a special guest. We do

2:00

Skeptical Sunday, where a rotating guest co-host

2:02

and I break down a topic you

2:04

may have never thought about and debunk

2:06

common misconceptions. Topics such as why

2:09

tipping makes no sense, astrology, the death

2:11

industry, or weddings. And if you're new

2:13

to the show, or you wanna tell

2:15

your friends about the show, I suggest

2:17

our episode starter packs. These are collections

2:19

of our favorite episodes organized by topic

2:21

to help new listeners get a taste

2:23

of everything we do here on the

2:25

show. Topics like persuasion, influence, China, North

2:27

Korea, crime and cults, and more. Just

2:30

visit jordanharbinger.com/start or search for us in

2:32

your Spotify app to get started. Today,

2:34

sexually explicit content, adult

2:37

entertainment smut, is a word I

2:39

feel like needs to come back, triple X

2:41

or just XXX, I don't know how you

2:43

would say that. Porn, whatever you call it,

2:46

there's no getting around how ubiquitous porn is

2:48

today. And today's porn uses high speed internet

2:50

to create an intense experience, or so I

2:52

have heard. And the negative effects of today's

2:55

pornography are not always anticipated by the user

2:58

or necessarily even considered by the

3:00

user. Porn and porn flicks, they don't

3:02

come with warning labels what they used

3:04

to. But can viewing pornography impact relationships,

3:07

work, or self-care? Is the

3:09

impact worse than society wants

3:11

to admit? Comedian and porn

3:13

aficionado, Michael Regilio, is

3:15

here to talk about the ins

3:17

and outs of porn. Okay, for the

3:20

record, Jordan ad-libbed the

3:23

porn aficionado, although researching this

3:25

episode, I might well be.

3:27

Hi, Jordan. Let's talk specifically,

3:29

okay, about high speed internet

3:31

porn. This is not your

3:33

father's porn. High

3:36

speed internet access has changed the

3:38

way porn is viewed while changing

3:40

our brain's wiring. It is necessary

3:42

to look at the science behind

3:44

pornography. Porn science, okay, that sounds

3:46

like a movie starring Anthony Michael

3:49

Hall. By the way, the phrase your father's

3:51

porn is something I'd rather just never ever

3:53

hear again, by the way, that's, no. Okay,

3:55

all right, well, it might come up again. But

3:58

ha, the science behind porn. is

4:00

of course neuroscience and neuroscience shows that

4:02

high-speed porn changes the way our brain

4:04

functions and instills addictive traits. But here's

4:06

the thing, porn has always been around,

4:08

you and I were kind of talking

4:10

at the top of the show, well

4:12

it's not just porn, it's high-speed internet

4:14

porn and I'm thinking like okay, dial

4:16

up porn, is it that much worse

4:18

or better? VHS porn, this is nothing

4:20

new. Wet playboys

4:22

in the forest. Right, okay. Look, although

4:25

porn is nothing new, there is no

4:27

comparing today's porn to anything that existed

4:29

before. This isn't even your older

4:32

cousin's porn, okay? See, that's more like it.

4:34

That's some porn I can get behind that

4:36

doesn't make me have shivers and nightmares while

4:40

I'm awake. I understand. Okay,

4:42

so high-speed internet porn is a

4:44

recent phenomenon that didn't exist until

4:46

around 20 years ago. Porn is

4:48

more accessible and more extreme than

4:50

ever before. These few rain-soaked

4:52

centerfold magazines that I and apparently you

4:55

found in the park is a key

4:57

major are nothing compared to the hardcore

4:59

high-def videos that everyone has access to

5:02

today. Yeah, so I was hinting at

5:04

the thing that it's like a code

5:06

word that all guys who are probably

5:09

30, 40 years old know is that there

5:11

are rain-soaked, hopefully rain-soaked, magazines in the woods

5:14

stuffed in a stump at the BMX track

5:16

that your parents have never been to and

5:18

my friends and I would find them and

5:20

say, I think that's a

5:22

boob and the nip should be like where

5:24

that torn sort of leaf dried on there

5:27

and we can't get it off without ruining

5:29

it. Can we even know how many

5:31

people watch porn on a regular basis? It's not

5:33

something people love to talk about generally right

5:36

now apparently. Yeah, well that's true but the

5:38

National Institute of Health reports that 91% of

5:40

men and 60% of

5:43

women have viewed porn within the last month.

5:45

Other statistics vary but it's hard to get

5:47

honest feedback. Here's that old joke, nine out

5:49

of ten guys admit to masturbating and the

5:51

10th one is a liar. That

5:54

might just be the case here with who is admitting to

5:56

their porn habits so we just don't know. So

5:58

those stats, they sound high. Maybe not for guys. Maybe

6:02

91% sounds accurate. It does surprise me the

6:04

percentage for women is that high. I would

6:06

say if you quizzed me on that, I'd

6:08

say low double digits or even single digits

6:10

because a lot of women I know would

6:13

never admit, I'll put it that way, to

6:15

watching porn. True. And the

6:17

numbers going up. And evolutionary biologist Thomas

6:19

Juncker believes the rise in females who

6:21

view high speed porn is because more

6:23

content is now being made for women.

6:25

So the numbers are adding up. And

6:27

by the way, the top five porn

6:29

sites account for over six billion

6:32

visits per month. No doubt, some of

6:34

those visitors are definitely women. Just statistically

6:37

speaking, I'm curious what the difference is

6:39

between porn for men and women. I'm

6:42

going to have to somehow figure out how to view porn

6:44

on the internet. Man, that's going

6:46

to be some research. But wow, over six

6:48

billion served. There must be a lot of

6:50

repeat users in this industry. Okay. Yes,

6:53

those numbers do account for many

6:55

chronic porn users. There is hesitation

6:57

to label them porn addicts. But

6:59

neuroscientists see no difference in brain

7:01

function between porn use and other addictive

7:04

things like drugs. Many psychologists

7:06

don't agree and say that porn addiction doesn't exist

7:08

while others have a more fuzzy take. It's a

7:10

debate and I don't fully understand it. So I'm

7:12

just going to go with the scientists and I'm

7:14

going to say if it walks like an addiction

7:16

and talks like an addiction, it's an addiction. Addiction

7:19

or not, what is going on here? That's

7:21

a lot of crispy socks, Michael. Wow.

7:27

I wonder how many people even get that. Like women

7:29

are like, oh, crispy socks. Sadly, I think just about

7:31

everybody gets it because that stereotype is sort of

7:33

out and I've yeah, that's true. The fact of the

7:35

matter is it just all starts with

7:37

evolutionary desires. For billions of years, the

7:40

top priority for all living things has

7:42

been reproduction. Now imagine the environment in

7:44

which humans evolved. Studies of

7:46

the earliest human species population show that

7:48

there was about one person per square

7:51

mile. So a dude walking the plains

7:53

of Africa 100,000 years ago or

7:55

so had very few opportunities to interact

7:57

and make. Evolution made sure he took

7:59

every. opportunity available. The horniest

8:01

people passed along the most DNA

8:04

and in order to maximize reproduction

8:06

rates, men evolved to become super

8:08

aroused by the prospect of a

8:10

new mate to spread as much

8:12

sperm as possible. That actually makes

8:14

a ton of sense, evolutionarily speaking,

8:17

and I love that the source

8:19

for this or one of the

8:21

sources for this is persquaremile.com, which

8:23

I can only imagine someone's like,

8:25

wait, what happens if we quickly

8:27

need to know how many people

8:30

there were per square mile a hundred

8:32

thousand years ago? I need to make

8:34

a website that calculates this in a

8:36

flash. Yeah, it sounds like graduate student

8:38

project. It does, like an intern at

8:41

a stink tank. So we're ancestors of

8:43

the horniest humans, which is kind of

8:45

funny and also that's not what you

8:47

learn in Sunday school or whatever. Yeah,

8:49

and high-speed internet porn hacks these desires

8:52

and sends them into overdrive. Our brain

8:54

is telling us we're doing a good

8:56

thing when we watch porn because the

8:58

potential for new mates seems limitless. I

9:00

know this isn't your department necessarily, but

9:02

it sounds like you're saying humans are

9:04

not usually monogamous kind of by design,

9:06

at least sexually monogamous by design. All

9:08

living things are built to reproduce. Certain

9:11

species are more monogamous than others. When

9:13

a gray wolf alpha male picks its

9:15

mate, that's for life. They are

9:17

nature's power couple. Many other species

9:19

are the same penguins, albatross, international

9:21

bird, bald eagles, mate for life.

9:23

Yeah, of course they do good

9:25

old American family values. That's right.

9:27

But there are animals like bonobos

9:29

who are just constantly having sex

9:32

parties. Humans seem to be

9:34

a combination of those extremes. And by the way,

9:36

Jordan, I've been to a few bonobo parties. Not

9:39

that great, okay? I'm

9:42

not sure how you scored an invite to those,

9:44

but I don't really need details. It

9:46

sounds like a lot of feces tossing. So

9:49

porn is, speaking of which, porn is stimulating

9:51

our most primal desires. How is it affecting

9:53

our brain? Is there science that says, like,

9:56

hey, this is this rots your brain like

9:58

the hip-hop and jazz music? once was

10:00

thought to do? One of the most powerful

10:02

things in our brains is the tremendous dopamine

10:04

system. The dopamine system motivates us to do

10:07

everything we need to do to survive like

10:09

eat, sleep, and reproduce. And when it comes

10:11

to reproduction, the dopamine system doesn't leave anything

10:13

to chance. So even if there's a slight

10:15

chance of mating, our brains give us a

10:17

dopamine boost to motivate us to go for

10:19

it. Ah, okay. So are we, and again,

10:22

this might be a little outside the research,

10:24

but are we motivated to go for sex

10:26

more than other desires? You know when you hear those

10:29

rat experiments, like the rat went for the cocaine

10:31

water instead of food. It's like,

10:33

well, surprise, surprise. But what takes precedence?

10:35

Food or sex? Or shelter or sex?

10:37

Is there like a hierarchy here that

10:39

gets messed up? Well let's just say

10:41

studies show that our dopamine production for

10:43

sex is two times what it is

10:46

for food. Great dieting idea. The porn

10:48

diet. That

10:51

says a book writes itself. And

10:53

look, the fact of the matter is dopamine

10:56

is the door to addiction. And here's the

10:58

thing, dopamine isn't just the pleasure molecule. No,

11:00

it's the molecule that controls wanting,

11:03

cravings, and guides you to avoid

11:05

those unpleasant feelings. The

11:07

purpose of dopamine is to motivate you

11:09

to seek behavior that produces more dopamine.

11:11

I mean, who doesn't love food? And

11:14

to 2X that, sign me up. So

11:16

let me guess, the dopamine machine can't

11:19

tell the difference between high speed internet

11:21

porn and a real world experience or

11:23

there's some fuzzy stuff going on there?

11:25

No. It's just the opposite.

11:27

It can tell the difference and the dopamine

11:30

is motivating people to choose high speed

11:32

porn over the real world. There

11:35

is more reward from high speed

11:37

porn than sex with a single

11:39

partner because there are diminishing returns

11:41

of dopamine with the same partner.

11:43

High speed internet porn offers endless

11:46

opportunities to simulate a new mate.

11:49

So it's the novelty thing going on here.

11:51

And by the way, that sounds like the

11:53

slogan for a porn site. Simulate

11:55

a mate. It makes sense though. I can't

11:57

imagine that almost anybody in real life has

12:00

a... more options for real life mates than

12:02

they do internet simulated mates. Here's looking

12:04

at Tom Brady, right? It's like, well, that

12:06

guy can walk out the door and people

12:08

are like doing weird gymnastics over tables to get

12:10

to him, and yet, he's in

12:13

his bed laying down, he's got his phone in

12:15

his hand, like it's still easier for somebody like

12:17

that. It's true, I mean, maybe that should be

12:19

the catchphrase for one of those sites, more sex

12:21

than Tom Brady. After the FTX thing, he might

12:24

not be down for any more website promos, but

12:26

then again, they can't go any worse than the

12:28

FTX thing, so a porn site endorsement might actually

12:30

be a good way to clean his brand up

12:33

a little bit. Yeah, at least porn is real.

12:35

Right. True that. This

12:37

is the underlying promise of porn, and

12:39

high speed porn delivers that. People are

12:41

hacking this response and getting a dopamine

12:43

kick from a new partner every few

12:45

seconds. It's pleasure on steroids. Pleasure on

12:47

dopamine anyway, I suppose. And now young

12:49

guys, I've heard Scott Galloway say this,

12:51

and I don't remember if it was

12:54

on my show because he's been on

12:56

a few times or other show, but

12:58

he said, now young guys basically can

13:00

have more simulated partners in one lonely

13:02

afternoon than most men of the previous

13:04

generations have had in their entire lives.

13:06

Yeah, and scientists use dopamine to measure

13:08

the addictive potential of an experience. A

13:10

2019 study in Australia showed porn to

13:12

subjects and measured a dopamine spike at

13:15

the initial viewing. The more

13:17

the subject watched the same porn, the less

13:19

dopamine they released. When the researchers

13:21

showed them a new porn film, the

13:23

researchers said their brains and boners sprang

13:26

to attention again. Well,

13:28

that does explain the never ending new

13:30

content on porn sites, or so I've

13:32

heard. I guess you don't rewatch your

13:35

favorite ones like you do old Seinfeld

13:37

episodes. Rarely do I watch Seinfeld for

13:40

sexual content. There was the

13:42

episode with Elaine's nipple that I

13:45

rewatched several times. Can't see

13:47

it. Can't see it. Not just the

13:49

sexual content, but the novelty that sends

13:51

dopamine skyrocketing. Like you just hinted at

13:53

earlier, in 30 minutes you can see

13:55

more members of the opposite sex erotically

13:57

displaying themselves than the total number of

14:00

other mostly closed humans are

14:02

ancestors to could see during

14:04

their entire lifetime. This

14:06

is all new to the human

14:08

experience and it's the frequency of

14:10

dopamine spikes that cause addiction. Every

14:13

day things become boring compared to

14:15

the non-stop dopamine show a human

14:17

gets in front of their laptop

14:20

touching, well, the top of their

14:22

lap. Thank you. Yes,

14:24

it's not just a laptop though,

14:26

it's any screen, right? We including

14:28

phones and although desktop porn seems

14:30

so comically antiquated and quaint, I

14:33

have to imagine this includes phones because

14:35

again, from what I've heard from friends, most

14:38

of their porn habits happen to be

14:40

through their handheld devices while they're handholding

14:43

their other devices. I

14:45

knew you're going to go for that one. Look, the fact

14:47

of the matter for the porn addict, it's not even about

14:49

the phone or the screen. You don't have

14:51

to be in front of the screen to be

14:53

affected by porn use. It's also the things that

14:55

trigger people to go watch porn. Just seeing a

14:58

woman in a bikini while driving down the street

15:00

can create a strong craving for internet porn in

15:02

users. I don't know why

15:04

that's funny because I guess where I'm driving, there's nobody who's

15:06

just hanging out in the bikini but dudes

15:08

just see a woman in a bikini on the

15:10

beach theoretically or whatever and it makes them want

15:13

to just go home, bust out the laptop and

15:15

then not actually engage with the woman in the

15:17

bikini but go straight home and bust up Bornhub

15:20

or whatever. Okay, now you

15:22

get it. It's not surprising that high-speed porn

15:24

has similar effects on the brain as narcotics.

15:26

Daniel Lieberman points out in his book, The

15:28

Story of the Human Body, that the sweetest

15:31

thing an ancient hunter-gatherer could find was probably

15:33

a piece of fruit about as sweet as

15:35

a modern-day carrot. Now you can

15:37

buy a pound of sugar for a few

15:39

bucks. Farmers in the Andes chew coca leaves

15:42

for a mild boost in energy, extract that

15:44

energy-boosting power and you wind up with the

15:46

highly addictive cocaine. It's like we're a little

15:48

too smart for our own good. We've

15:50

conquered survival faster than our brains

15:53

can process. We learned how

15:55

to exploit the programming that paired

15:57

survival and reproduction with pleasure with

15:59

the few taps on our phone,

16:01

we have unfiltered pleasure completely separated

16:04

from its original purpose of survival

16:06

and reproduction." That does make

16:08

a lot of sense. Although I have to kind of

16:10

call BS on the carrot thing. What about berries? Is

16:13

this guy just going to ignore the

16:15

fact that fruit has existed since the

16:17

dawn of time theoretically? How is

16:19

a carrot the sweetest thing that's around? Like an

16:21

apple, which is not going to be a rare

16:24

thing, is everywhere and so are raspberries that grow

16:26

like weeds. And the Bible says apples have been

16:28

around since the beginning. So there you

16:30

go buddy. Checkmate scientist.

16:34

Yeah, I don't know about that. But I get where

16:36

he's going with it and also the whole hoke a

16:38

leaf thing makes sense and extracting

16:41

things from nature and then turning them

16:43

into crazy. I mean even all kinds

16:45

of high fructose corn syrup would be a good example.

16:47

Yeah, exactly. It's just we're refining everything and then it

16:49

goes straight into your veins and it's like, wait, you

16:51

were supposed to have a 1% diluted

16:54

version of this and you were supposed to

16:56

absorb it 100 times slower and now you're

16:58

shooting it up or smoking it. I would

17:01

imagine the addiction worsens when things like a

17:03

VR headset are used. I know that's sort

17:05

of primitive tech but it's so new it

17:07

makes me get vertigo and want to barf

17:09

instead of simulate much of anything but I

17:11

can only imagine that's going to make things

17:13

worse. Yeah, I mean VR is relatively new

17:15

and it is being studied. Researchers

17:17

at Newcastle University in the UK have pointed out

17:20

that VR changes the experience of porn. A

17:22

user goes from detached observer to

17:24

virtual participant. If you're jonesing

17:26

for a little release, maybe release that wallet and

17:28

support one of the fine products and services that

17:30

support this show. We'll be right back. This

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19:49

Now, back to Skeptical Sunday. I

19:53

almost feel, and this is a tangent versus

19:56

watching random people get after it. At least you're

19:59

kind of like. Somehow being involved seems

20:01

more helpful now. I don't know. I'll

20:03

leave it to the scientists continue I mean, it's getting

20:05

a little holodeck and I don't know it's getting a

20:07

little her Yeah with Joaquin

20:10

Phoenix and Scar Jo Joaquin Phoenix. Yeah I

20:12

mean we might just reach the point where

20:14

somebody goes home puts on their headset and

20:16

spends the evening with their girlfriend I don't

20:18

know. I mean sure it's just not conclusive

20:20

either way Yeah better than shooting up a

20:22

shopping mall if you're like one of those

20:24

violent in cells, but that's another that's another

20:26

show It's a good point. I'm convinced that

20:28

there could be a correlation there, too Look,

20:31

there's no doubt the VR adds to

20:33

the dopamine kick and any addict will

20:35

tell you the constant dopamine spikes come

20:37

with a price When we slam the

20:39

pleasure center of the brain with that

20:41

much dopamine the receptor shut down so

20:43

to get the same high Users need

20:46

more and more porn. It's not unlike

20:48

gambling and drugs anything that gives us

20:50

the sweet sweet dopamine rush This dopamine

20:52

cycle is a universal symptom of addiction

20:54

And this is exactly what scientists see

20:56

in the chemistry of the minds of

20:59

high-speed porn users Behavioral

21:01

addiction causes the same dopamine responses

21:03

as in substance addiction So isn't

21:05

then high-speed internet addictive itself does

21:07

surfing the web Itself boost us

21:09

with dopamine because when I first

21:11

discovered the internet as a kid

21:13

and this wasn't even like clicking

21:15

on colored banners This is navigating

21:17

using a keyboard and a black

21:19

and white screen I was

21:21

beyond addicted to it as a kid It

21:23

was wild and all I really had access

21:26

to were certain Academic

21:28

papers and like crappy chat rooms

21:30

that were mostly inactive that were about

21:32

computers But it still was like

21:35

the coolest thing that I've ever seen in my

21:37

life And this again no pictures

21:39

not even a color screen at that point.

21:41

Mm-hmm. I mean, of course Yes, the internet

21:43

itself can be very addicting. We know that

21:45

even if you're just looking at innocent content

21:48

I myself have sacrificed valuable time

21:50

with my family to watch way

21:52

too many human beatbox videos seems

21:54

worth it I'm more of a

21:56

dr. Pimple popper whistling diesel video

21:58

guy So, okay, I

22:00

have some idea of what the pimple popper thing

22:02

is, and I will say that if it was

22:04

around when I was 15, I would have been

22:07

a fucking star. Okay,

22:09

but what is Whistlin'

22:11

Diesel? So, my kid wants that Jaden always

22:13

likes watching videos before we go to sleep,

22:16

and it's like he just wants to watch one

22:18

video with that, and he always wants to watch

22:20

car videos, and this guy, Whistlin' Diesel, is like

22:22

this idiot, and by idiot, I mean brilliantly funny

22:24

guy who's good at playing dumb

22:26

but is a mechanical genius, and what he'll do

22:28

is he'll take, he'll buy like a Hellcat

22:31

sports car, which is kind of like

22:33

a souped up Charger Mustang thing, and

22:35

he'll put those Amish wagon wheels on

22:37

it, and he'll burn it

22:39

out and drive it through town, or he'll

22:41

get like a monster truck and drive it

22:43

in water, and everyone's calling it, the cops

22:45

are everywhere, and there's helicopters, and he's like,

22:47

well, we checked, this is actually legal, but

22:49

they don't like it. It's dumb,

22:51

but, you know, there's a reason he gets

22:53

23 million views on a video, because it's

22:56

amazingly fun and funny, and seemingly mostly innocent.

22:58

I don't know how we got on

23:00

this, but yeah, the videos that we see

23:02

online on TikTok that are not porny, a

23:04

lot of them are also kind of addicting.

23:07

I'm not addicted to Whistlin' Diesel, but you

23:09

see outrage content or just nonsense conspiracy stuff,

23:11

there's gotta be an addiction element to that

23:13

stuff, because otherwise it's, I mean, it is

23:16

destroying people's lives and relationships, and people choose

23:18

that over like their family. I know, I

23:20

mean, that's another episode altogether that I've had

23:22

friendships fall apart over this stuff, but look,

23:24

there's a lot to say about internet addiction,

23:27

but there's no doubt high-speed porn makes it

23:29

worse. Viewing porn is associated

23:31

with the erosion of the prefrontal cortex,

23:33

which drives things, again, like our impulse

23:36

control and willpower. When you combine the

23:38

already addictive nature of the internet with

23:40

the fact that our brains make us

23:42

super motivated by anything sexual, you see

23:44

how high-speed porn can have such negative

23:47

effects. So you said it erodes

23:49

the prefrontal cortex. Tell me more about that, because

23:51

that sounds like one of those things you read

23:53

in a science article, and it's like, well, it

23:55

doesn't actually erode, and it's not actually the prefrontal

23:57

cortex, and it's not true at all. question

24:00

and I looked into that one a lot. I'm

24:18

trying to learn here though but

24:21

what remains unclear is whether

24:23

porn use is shrinking the gray matter of

24:25

dudes or dudes with small gray matter watch

24:27

more porn. I'm guessing also the younger you

24:29

are the more negative the effects. Do we

24:32

know the age kids are seeing this content

24:34

because the outrage internet that I'm addicted to

24:36

would say that 12 year olds

24:38

are watching porn which doesn't surprise me at all because

24:40

if I was 12 and I had a smartphone or

24:43

a computer with internet I would be seeking this stuff

24:45

out for sure. I'm sure I would have. Absolutely

24:47

and I mean just in my own life when

24:49

one of my 12 year old

24:51

nieces grabs my phone she can navigate

24:53

into parts of my phone I didn't even know exist.

24:55

She hands it back to me two seconds later it's

24:57

got a different screen different buttons I'm signed up like

25:00

they are quick they are good so they're going to

25:02

see it and the fact of the matter is studies

25:04

show most children view porn by the age of 13

25:06

but 15%

25:08

they viewed pornography online before the age of 11. Again

25:11

this is difficult to conduct so the numbers could

25:14

be higher I mean who's gonna admit like even

25:16

to a researcher I started looking at that stuff

25:18

when I was seven. Or my kids are looking

25:20

at it because I'm a terrible parent and can't

25:22

stop them from doing it even though you're not

25:24

a terrible parent because even if you won't let

25:26

your kid use the internet or have a phone

25:28

some shithead kid at school has a phone and

25:31

the parents don't care that he's showing porn to

25:33

all the girls because they scream and run away

25:35

when he does I mean that's the whole thing

25:37

they're just way too young and there are some

25:39

innocence lost in the coming of age with high-speed

25:41

porn for sure it's amazing how much has

25:43

changed since those old mags in the woods

25:45

and I know you and I probably had

25:47

a similar conversation but whenever you talk to

25:49

guys or gals your age now does it

25:51

not come up where like I'm so glad

25:53

the dumbest thing I did was not posted

25:55

on social media because it didn't exist like

25:58

the time that I did this horrible or

26:00

that this horrible thing was done to me. There

26:02

were no camera phones. Nobody really knows about it

26:04

except who was there. And those two out of

26:07

the five people have already forgotten about it. Yeah,

26:09

well, I mean, this is a side topic, but

26:11

yeah, whenever I see like a breaking story or

26:13

just something online about 17-year-olds this

26:16

outrageous thing, I'm like, don't care. I

26:18

don't care. Yeah. You should

26:20

get a full pass for everything. I got a

26:22

full pass, because I did and said stupid things,

26:25

and it was never recorded and it just disappeared

26:27

into the ether. These kids have a permanent record

26:29

of it. So let young kids be

26:31

stupid. Like if you're 17 and

26:33

you said something outrageously stupid, I don't care. I

26:35

don't care. You get a pass. I'm with you.

26:37

Because it's easy for us to follow the progression

26:39

of porn news. The first issue of Playboy was

26:41

published in 1953. An

26:44

entire industry of adult magazines was thrust

26:46

into mainstream America. Thrust. Ha ha

26:48

ha. Wait a minute. When

26:51

VCRs became the thing in the 1980s, porno

26:54

movies came right into the home. In the

26:56

90s, the brand new World Wide Web allowed

26:58

porn to flow into the home endlessly.

27:00

For the first time, people could access porn

27:02

whenever they wanted with just a few clicks

27:05

of a mouse and they often chose porn.

27:07

A decade after this, smartphones were in

27:10

everyone's hand and porn was more accessible,

27:12

affordable, and anonymous than ever. Which by

27:14

the way, are known as the three

27:16

A's of addiction. Ah, accessible, affordable, and

27:18

anonymous are the three A's of addiction.

27:21

Is that like things that make addictions

27:23

really easy? Is that it's accessible, affordable,

27:25

and anonymous? I never heard about this.

27:28

I mean, I came across it in the research, so to

27:31

the best of my understanding, yes. I mean,

27:33

it makes sense, right? You can't be addicted

27:35

to something if you can't get it and

27:37

you can't afford it. And if you have

27:39

consequences or people know you're doing it, it's

27:41

a lot harder because you have a shame

27:43

element and social pressure. Absolutely. The anonymity has

27:45

really changed. Nobody's getting carted by the clerk

27:47

at the video store for renting a copy

27:50

of Edward Penis' Hands anymore. Okay,

27:52

pulling back the curtain a little, I wanna thank

27:54

Jordan for editing the show notes with the proper

27:57

quotes around Edward Penis' Hands. He got me on

27:59

that one. are a master punctuator.

28:04

But this anonymity is why high-speed porn

28:06

is so appealing. Yeah, it just makes

28:08

our primal brains are going nuts for

28:10

this and some people can't stop watching,

28:12

I guess. It seems like some people

28:15

are just more predisposed to this than

28:17

others, maybe, as with all addictions. I

28:19

mean, novelty-packed high-speed porn keeps your attention

28:21

for hours on end. A lot of

28:23

evidence shows this exposure changes the brain

28:26

chemistry, like we said, just like drug

28:28

addiction. A study at Germany's Max Planck

28:30

Institute found that men not classified

28:32

as having an addiction showed addiction-related

28:35

brain changes when exposed to high-speed

28:37

porn. The more hours spent

28:39

viewing porn corresponds with that reduction in

28:41

gray matter. Again, it's a correlation. They

28:43

don't know yet, but our brain's gray

28:45

matter is something you don't want to

28:48

have less of. You're right. If

28:50

it walks like an addiction and talks

28:52

like an addiction, yada, yada. So also,

28:54

this reduction in gray matter, so we

28:57

don't know the causation, but it sounds

28:59

like if there is causation, is porn

29:01

actually making us less motivated, less clear

29:03

thinking? It seems like an overreach, but

29:05

I'm going to say it anyway. Watching porn literally makes us

29:07

dumber in some ways. Is that real, potentially? I'm

29:10

trying to find out, but studies like the

29:12

one we discussed, which I read about in

29:14

Wired magazine, they straight up were asking the

29:16

question, is porn shrinking our

29:18

brains? I mean, this is a legit

29:21

concern. And again, the evidence is inconclusive.

29:23

And if everyone keeps shrinking their brains

29:25

watching porn, we will never get an

29:28

answer to this. Right.

29:30

Yeah, I'd love to research this, but hold on. I'll be right

29:32

back. I got to go return some

29:34

videotapes. Yeah, kidding. Look, addiction

29:36

or not, dependence on pornography is known

29:38

to interfere with relationships and cause some

29:40

people dissatisfaction in their own sex life.

29:42

It can even cause people to lose

29:44

the ability to just function in daily

29:47

life. Accessing pornography is

29:49

so easy and provides instant satisfaction,

29:51

and interacting with porn is way

29:53

easier than interacting with a partner

29:55

who has real needs, desires, goals,

29:58

problems, et cetera. on their

30:00

own. Yeah, that does seem like a

30:03

recipe for problematic relationships. We're talking earlier

30:05

with the movie Her, where the guy

30:07

orders the AI robot girlfriend, those

30:10

are going to be extremely popular for people who

30:12

don't want to, I don't know, compromise on anything

30:14

or deal with complex emotions. And I would imagine

30:16

that right now porn serves as an escape from

30:18

these same problems inside of a relationship, just like

30:21

a substance might also do. You know, my wife

30:23

is bugging me again because I never pay attention

30:25

to her and I work too much. A

30:28

bottle of Jack Daniels instead of figuring

30:30

out why I'm terrible at relating

30:32

to other people and being vulnerable.

30:35

Right, exactly. If an individual's porn

30:37

use leads to negative effects in

30:39

the relationship, the individual is likely

30:41

to deal with relationship issues by

30:43

relying even more heavily on porn.

30:46

High-speed porn can, for some, be

30:48

an escape from relationship issues while

30:50

providing them with basic sexual satisfaction.

30:53

Several studies say porn use can be a

30:55

warning sign that divorces in the future. The

30:57

study doesn't, however, resolve whether watching porn is

30:59

a cause of divorce or a symptom of

31:01

an already unhappy relationship. Yeah, that would be

31:04

tough, right? Because if you're in an unhappy

31:06

relationship and your wife is like, I'm not

31:08

sleeping with you anymore because I'm grossed out

31:10

by you and can't stand you, you're going

31:12

to go to porn for that release. But

31:15

that's not like you using the porn is

31:17

causing your unhappy relationship. Then again, if you

31:19

never want to sleep with your wife because

31:22

you're like, well, I can't deal with one

31:24

person when I can go look at crazy

31:26

tentacle crap on the web. Now

31:28

you got another issue that's going to compound

31:30

over time, I would imagine, quite a bit. So

31:33

is there a lot of that studying in porn?

31:35

Do studies show whether people use porn to escape

31:37

problems or is porn causing the problems? I guess

31:39

that's the question I should have asked in the

31:41

beginning instead of theorizing. Well, it's

31:43

a tough one, but there is evidence

31:46

that suggests it is both. But the

31:48

research does not show a definitive cause

31:50

and effect. Regardless, the problem that these

31:52

changes in the brain cause, whether from

31:54

or because of porn are rarely the

31:57

reason men seek help for addiction. The

31:59

drive factor for men to seek

32:01

behavioral changes in their use of

32:03

porn is erectile dysfunction.

32:07

When guys realize that a real live

32:09

woman can no longer turn them on,

32:11

but logging on to a porn site

32:13

does, they tend to admit

32:15

they have a problem. That's scary that

32:17

that can happen. I mean erectile dysfunction,

32:19

I've heard that can be hard, Michael.

32:23

And I'm not just talking about

32:25

older men here. Today, porn use

32:27

is directly linked to erectile dysfunction

32:29

in young men under the age

32:31

of Wow. Yeah,

32:34

and it's not just problems with the hardware.

32:36

Porn use has also been linked to an

32:38

overall lack of ability to make emotional bonds.

32:41

The Great Porn Experiment, a TED Talk with

32:43

Gary Wilson, highlights not only just

32:45

how common porn use is among

32:47

young men, but that the porn

32:49

free-for-all that floods the web is

32:51

one big unconscious global experiment. When

32:54

researchers first tried to study porn use

32:56

in college-age men, they ran into a

32:58

huge problem. It wasn't that they

33:00

couldn't find anyone willing to admit that porn

33:03

happened. I know where you're going with this.

33:05

They couldn't find a control group of men

33:07

that was not using porn. One

33:09

researcher concluded guys who do not

33:11

watch pornography do not exist. That

33:14

is really funny because you'd think, oh, go

33:16

to Brigham Young University with all the guys

33:19

that are really religious. And it's like, we're

33:21

supposed to tell the truth on this one?

33:23

Okay, maybe I've slipped up a little bit.

33:25

I mean, this does sound like college. I

33:27

remember it just being widely talked about, not

33:29

even like a taboo. Guys would be

33:31

like, all right, get out of my room. I got to

33:34

handle something. And you're just like, all right. What I mean,

33:36

it was just really, really, really open because half of us

33:38

had internet for the first time in 1997 or an eight

33:40

when I started college. They

33:43

were like, get out of here. You got to use this. Wow.

33:46

Yeah. Wilson's TED Talk points

33:48

out something else remarkable. The technological revolution and

33:50

the advent of high speed porn didn't happen

33:52

until the 1990s. So

33:55

when older guys give up porn, the negative effects

33:57

from porn addiction are overcome in a short amount

33:59

of time. of recovery time. When guys who

34:01

grew up with

34:05

the internet and always have had access to high-speed

34:07

internet porn give it up, their addiction is much

34:09

more difficult to overcome than the elders. Speaking

34:12

of novelty seeking, check out the fine products

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episode is also sponsored by Quiltmind. So a really interesting

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who's also a CEO and founder, reached

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34:29

I had not really noticed, which is that I have over

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34:34

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ever really, I don't even know. These folks chose

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not a whole lot of crazy conspiracy people

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37:31

that does make sense for as of

37:33

nineteen nineties guy has to give up

37:35

porn all he does is crisis playboys

37:38

toss out some blurry over used written

37:40

d magnetized whatever vhs tapes and maybe

37:42

refrain from the weird section of his

37:44

local blockbuster or something but nowadays you'd

37:46

after what block all these random web

37:49

sites from being available in seconds on

37:51

every device that you own you need

37:53

skills for that you need apps for

37:55

that it be like trying to take

37:58

heroin with a stash of hair literally

38:00

in your pocket at all times. Just

38:30

normal things that guys are turned on

38:32

by. In other words, a girl, the

38:34

company of a young lady, they can

38:36

revert back, but these younger guys that

38:38

are creating these neural pathways in their

38:40

brain in those formative years with high

38:42

speed internet porn, they have trouble turning

38:44

those pathways off and turning on the

38:46

pathways that would allow them to find

38:48

just normal... I say

38:50

normal and that's the wrong word,

38:53

to what we grew up with.

38:55

Boy-girl relationships. Or just human-human relationships,

38:58

I suppose. You're right. That

39:00

was heterocentric talking on my part. I usually

39:02

don't worry about that, but if we're trying

39:05

to be specific about real people, we should

39:07

just include real people

39:09

who are actually having sex with each other. Because

39:11

people get upset about that enough as it is,

39:13

so we might as well include, I don't want

39:15

the LGBT community to get away with not also

39:17

being pissed off at us right now. We

39:20

want everybody angry. Yeah, and we also don't want

39:22

the LGBT community to get away with not being

39:24

addicted to porn. It's

39:26

everybody. That's right. You guys, gals,

39:28

and whatever other pronouns you use should

39:30

also be just as upset and out

39:34

of control as us hetero-debag guys

39:36

who can't get off the web.

39:39

But you were asking about this fusion of technology and

39:41

porn, and the fact of the matter is the lines

39:43

are blurred. Part of

39:46

it is there are companies that

39:48

not only want more porn consumption,

39:50

but study how to get people

39:52

to spend more time on their

39:54

websites engaging with and buying their

39:56

content. This is about the porn

39:58

business itself, yeah? No. What

40:00

I'm talking about is the business of

40:02

porn. The company is making money streaming

40:04

endless porn content. These companies are making

40:07

decisions based on the fact that as

40:09

porn use goes up, their revenue goes

40:11

up. All industries study our habits in

40:13

hope of finding ways to profit. I

40:16

want to be clear that the

40:18

porn industry is part of the

40:20

problem. They are actively trying to

40:22

get us to watch more porn

40:25

and normalize the addiction through personalized

40:27

algorithms, porn games, and subscription perks.

40:29

Porn games and perks sounds

40:31

as corny as it gets. Maybe I'm

40:33

just an old fart who doesn't understand

40:35

the magic of whatever like stepmom themed

40:38

candy crush clones are out there, but

40:40

a porn game just sounds absolutely ridiculous.

40:44

Look, I'll just say I'll leave porn

40:46

Tetris to your imagination, but that's gotta

40:48

be real. Trust me, it's wild, and

40:50

people will pay big bucks for porn.

40:52

I guess, like with everything else, we

40:55

just need to follow the money, huh?

40:57

Yep, online porn is very big business.

40:59

Porn sites receive insane website traffic.

41:01

Pornhub reports that in 2019, 42

41:04

billion users visited their website. Jeez.

41:06

Think about those numbers, man. That's

41:08

115 million visitors a day, about

41:10

5 million an hour. 80,000

41:16

dudes have logged on to Pornhub since you

41:18

and I started talking. That's insane. That's just

41:20

one porn site. And again, I'll say it

41:22

again. That's a lot of crispy socks, man.

41:24

I didn't even know that that may suck.

41:27

No wonder Under Armour is doing so

41:29

well. Look, globally, porn makes about $100 billion

41:31

annually. In

41:34

comparison, the NFL made $18 billion last

41:36

year and Netflix made 28. So

41:38

the porn industry is making more than twice

41:40

the NFL and Netflix combined. Okay, those are

41:42

big companies and we're comparing it to a

41:45

whole industry, but I get the point. So

41:47

did the pandemic contribute to these numbers at

41:49

all or has porn always been this high?

41:51

I kind of wonder if people getting locked

41:53

in are like, well, now I'm really not

41:55

socializing. So here we go. Yeah. Now

41:57

you're on the trolley. usage has always been.

42:00

a huge number, but on average, porn sites

42:02

increased revenue by between 25 and 40% during

42:05

the pandemic shutdown. Wow. Content

42:08

providers of porn are a motivated industry that

42:10

relies on people returning to their sites over

42:12

and over again. I'm sure they hooked more

42:14

than a few new users during the pandemic.

42:17

Well, is there a safe level of porn?

42:19

Can we know how much porn is too

42:21

much porn? Is there sort of a guideline

42:23

or anything here? Like how

42:25

many high-speed porn sessions can you have

42:28

before your brain develops these negative changes?

42:30

Yeah. Unfortunately, that's just

42:32

not how it works. There is no

42:34

magic number. It's just if your daily

42:37

life or relationships are affected negatively, you're

42:39

consuming too much porn. But if life

42:41

isn't interrupted, chances are maybe you're just

42:43

meeting your needs. But without scientific guidelines,

42:46

it's kind of like you're not addicted

42:48

to porn until you are. Phew. So

42:50

the term too much porn is subjective.

42:53

Not all porn turns people into addicts or is

42:55

it just kind of all of its bad? I

42:57

don't know. What am I getting at

42:59

here? Is it all bad all the time? Of

43:01

course not. Look, I'm not trying

43:04

to be a Debbie Does Downer here. Got

43:06

it. See what you think. Thank you. Porn

43:09

itself is not bad. And this is

43:11

where controversy lies. Some studies of porn

43:13

users found a significant positive effect in

43:15

their lives and porn use by couples

43:17

have also had some relationship benefits. These

43:20

findings are why some psychologists have not

43:22

classified porn addiction as a condition. But

43:25

from what I'm reading, even if

43:27

it's a positive in your life today, porn

43:30

is a slippery slope that can quickly turn

43:32

negative. Why the disconnect between scientists and psychologists?

43:34

I always kind of figured they were two

43:37

sides of the same coin. But the more I

43:39

research anything, the more I see that that's not

43:41

necessarily true. Yeah. It all has

43:43

to do with the Diagnostic and Standard Manual

43:46

of Mental Disorders or the DSM. This

43:48

is the book that lists all mental

43:51

disorders. Currently, porn addiction is not listed

43:53

as any kind of disorder or condition.

43:55

While some psychologists maintain that porn is

43:57

not an addiction, others are less sure.

44:00

But here's the thing, it's not that

44:02

the DSM has rejected porn addiction as

44:04

a mental disorder. They have yet to

44:06

even consider it as a health issue

44:08

worth their attention. Wow, how are they

44:10

so behind on the scientific findings? Is that

44:12

always the case? Is the DSM always

44:14

sort of lagging here? Again, I wouldn't

44:16

be entirely sure of that one, but

44:18

the problem in this case is that

44:20

interested parties spin this information to meet

44:22

their narratives. The porn industry will spend

44:24

it this so that it helps sell

44:26

their products. But I also came across individuals

44:29

in my own life that found my

44:31

research into this subject concerning. No

44:33

one wants their favorite pastime threatened. Do you know

44:35

what I'm saying? So

44:37

no one wants to think something they're doing on

44:39

a regular basis is problematic and people did say

44:41

to me, they came back to me and they

44:43

were like, yo, the DSM says porn addiction isn't

44:46

even a real thing. By the way, they're telling

44:48

me this after four hours of mass-rating porn. They

44:50

would call me up and be like, seriously, angry

44:52

at me. How dare he say I'm

44:54

addicted? You know, but what's really going on? I

44:56

think to be honest with you, you've reached some

44:58

of these people. I think someone needs to make

45:00

a porn that teaches about the problems with porn

45:03

to get those people to listen. I mean,

45:05

if you're pitching a movie idea, I am

45:08

not interested at all. Okay,

45:10

fine. Look, in the end, regardless of

45:12

the DSN's choice to not label porn

45:14

addiction a mental health issue, the science

45:16

shows that for some individuals, it is

45:18

a serious problem that needs treatment. But

45:20

how can somebody seek treatment if there's

45:22

no defined condition? Because if you go

45:24

and you say I'm addicted to porn,

45:26

they'll go, well, in my book, that's

45:28

not a thing, so it has to

45:30

be something else or not a problem.

45:32

Well, you know what? That's the funny

45:34

thing. When you look up porn addiction,

45:36

I found just about every place that

45:38

deals with addiction definitely deals with porn

45:40

addiction. You know, well, that's good, I

45:42

suppose. Yeah, I mean, they're saying it's

45:44

not addiction, but every place has porn

45:47

addiction facilities and programs and treatments. This

45:49

feels like a good place to talk about

45:52

all the spin one finds when researching high-speed

45:54

porn use. When looking into the negative effects

45:56

of porn, I found a lot of information

45:58

coming from groups who... had moral

46:01

and religious objections. Of course, yeah. They too

46:03

are spinning the information to meet their narratives.

46:05

I didn't come across anyone saying it'll make

46:07

you go blind, but I came across more

46:09

than a few websites that insist that looking

46:12

at porn is a one-way ticket to hell.

46:14

Meanwhile, pro-porn people say that looking at porn

46:16

is a one-way ticket to heaven. Like

46:19

many behavioral issues, people believe what they

46:21

want to believe regardless of the facts.

46:23

Is anything being done to bring awareness

46:25

to the dangers of porn addiction? I

46:27

know some folks out there sound the

46:29

alarm like the guy who did the

46:31

TED Talk, but I mean actual authorities or health officials,

46:33

not like guys on social media or in a podcast,

46:36

but politicians. I mean, because they're saying, look, if someone's

46:38

gonna solve a big problem, it's certainly gonna be a

46:40

politician. Am I right? No, you're not. And

46:43

I'm saying, look, I'm very suspicious of

46:45

politicians, particularly when it comes to these

46:47

porn laws. It's clear that so much

46:49

of it is from religious lawmakers who

46:51

have these moral objections to porn. There

46:54

is little action I found based

46:56

on the scientific facts. Lawmakers in

46:59

Idaho, Pennsylvania, Virginia, and at least

47:01

a dozen other states have adopted resolutions

47:03

declaring pornography a public health crisis. That

47:05

just sounds like they're politicizing the condition

47:07

though, because what does that even mean?

47:09

What does that do? Yeah, it does

47:12

nothing. It just shames people. Right. And

47:14

it's virtue signaling is what it is, you know? Yeah. This

47:17

year, Louisiana now requires an ID

47:19

be uploaded to log onto porn

47:21

sites, but these steps do little

47:23

to help with people already addicted

47:25

to high-speed porn. What experts recommend

47:27

is deleting all porn from your

47:29

devices and installing parental locks. Yes,

47:31

parental locks, you're an adult, but

47:33

it still makes it harder to

47:35

watch porn. And the best way

47:37

to kick an addictive porn habit

47:39

is like kicking any other bad

47:41

habit. Replace watching high-speed porn with

47:43

a different habit, like exercise, and

47:45

identify the triggers that encourage watching

47:47

porn. Okay, so these solutions are

47:49

similar to any addiction recovery from

47:51

the sound of it? Yes, and

47:53

once people understand our primal sexual

47:55

desires, overcoming the urge to get

47:57

our dopamine from high-speed porn should

47:59

be... easier to control. We were

48:02

once more like bonobos mating with

48:04

any opportunity that presented itself. Throwing

48:06

poop everywhere. Yeah, it's true. But

48:08

that's the thing about evolution. It

48:10

allows us to evolve. Sitting

48:13

for endless hours in front of high

48:15

speed porn while ignoring the real world

48:18

isn't anyone's idea of an ideal life.

48:20

Allowing computers and screens to

48:22

simulate sex while inhibiting opportunities

48:24

for real intimacy isn't anyone's

48:26

version of their best life.

48:29

No one is dying from high

48:31

speed porn addiction, but that doesn't

48:33

mean they're not missing out on

48:35

having a life. Well curbing our

48:37

porn enthusiasm is pretty

48:40

difficult. So thanks Michael. That

48:42

was an exceptional,

48:44

a triple exceptional conversation

48:46

and I appreciate your

48:49

newfound expertise as

48:51

a connoisseur. Once again, as

48:53

a connoisseur of scientific pornography

48:55

research. Thank you, Jordan. Thanks

48:57

everybody for listening. Topic suggestions

48:59

for future episodes of Skeptical

49:01

Sunday can go to me,

49:03

jordan at jordanharbinger.com. Show notes

49:05

at jordanharbinger.com. Transcripts are in

49:07

the show notes. Advertisers, deals

49:09

and discounts, ways to support

49:11

the show are all at

49:13

jordanharbinger.com slash deals. I'm at

49:15

jordanharbinger on both Twitter and Instagram. You

49:17

can also connect with me on LinkedIn.

49:20

Michael Rogilio, tell them where to find

49:22

you. On Instagram, you can find me

49:24

at at michaelrogilio and that is R-E-G-I-L-I-O

49:26

or at michaelrogiliocomedy.com where I'm currently in

49:28

New York City for a month and

49:30

doing shows and lots of opportunities. Oh,

49:32

great time to be in New York

49:34

as well. Thank you very much. Enjoy

49:37

yourself out there. This show is created

49:39

in association with Podcast One. My team

49:41

is Jen Harbinger, Jace Sanderson, Robert Fogarty,

49:43

Ian Baird, Millie Ocampo and Gabriel Mizrahi.

49:45

Our advice and opinions are our own

49:47

and I'm a lawyer but I'm not

49:49

your lawyer. So do your own research

49:51

before implementing anything you hear on the show. Remember,

49:53

we rise by lifting others. There's a porn reference

49:56

in there somewhere but I'm not going for it.

49:58

Share the show with those you love. And

50:00

if you found this episode useful, please share it

50:02

with somebody else who could use a good dose

50:04

of the skepticism that we doled out today. In

50:06

the meantime, I hope you apply what you hear

50:08

on the show so you can live what you

50:10

learn and we'll see you next time. You're

50:15

about to hear a preview of the Jordan Harbinger

50:17

Show about how hormonal birth control can affect a

50:19

woman's personality and even influence who they pick as

50:21

a partner. They found that

50:23

women who are on the birth

50:25

control pill rather than experiencing a

50:28

big surge in the stress hormone

50:30

cortisol in response to stressful things,

50:32

they don't have any increase in

50:34

cortisol at all. It

50:36

seems like something in the birth

50:38

control pill is actually causing women's

50:40

stress response to go into overdrive.

50:42

And in fact, this sort

50:45

of a pattern is something that we

50:47

usually only see in the context of

50:49

chronic stress. Right? So people

50:51

who have, for example, PTSD or people

50:53

who, you know, grew up in the

50:55

context of trauma, this

50:58

isn't normal. This isn't

51:00

something that we see in

51:02

otherwise healthy, high functioning people.

51:05

Sex hormones have their fingers in so

51:07

many pots in the body that they're

51:10

going to be influencing our

51:12

brain because there's probably no place

51:14

in the body that has more receptors for sex

51:17

hormones than the brain. Our sex

51:19

hormones are part of what gives us, you

51:21

know, our sort of joie de vivre. It's

51:23

like part of what makes life exciting and

51:26

it turns the volume up and makes our

51:28

whites whiter and our brights brighter in terms

51:30

of our sort of experience of the world.

51:33

We've been really, really cavalier

51:35

about this idea that we should change

51:38

a person's personality and who they are

51:40

and their experiences in the world so

51:42

that way they don't have menstrual cramps.

51:45

We don't yet know whether or not

51:47

the birth control pill is influencing the

51:50

way that women's brains are being organized

51:52

and there's almost no research on this.

51:54

It's like nobody's really stopped to ask

51:57

the questions. To hear more

51:59

from Dr. Sarah Hill about the problems with taking

52:01

birth control, check out episode 280 of

52:04

the Jordan Harbinger show. This

52:07

episode is sponsored in part by the Castro Podcast app.

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