0:00

i am unwilling to give give up

0:02

that i will start

0:04

over from scratch as

0:05

many times as it takes to

0:08

get where i want to be i want to be sure

0:12

you don't don't get knocked out not

0:14

the your only choice should be

0:16

skillset the somewhat you can control control

0:18

until hi everyone and welcome to the care

0:21

of gold and show though join me

0:23

each week for inspiring conversations

0:25

with some of the world's greatest leaders

0:28

will , with sounders entrepreneurs

0:31

ceos and really some

0:33

of the most interesting people over time

0:36

can't wait to get started

0:41

hi everyone is curable then

0:44

and i am so so thrilled

0:46

to have my next guest here we have frown

0:48

hauser who was the author of

0:50

embrace the work loved your career

0:53

it's , second book and

0:55

it's sad more the workbooks there's

0:58

a lotta really good stuff in here so it's

1:00

not just pure work but there's a lot of good

1:02

stuff that will let france hell us a little bit more

1:04

about it so i've actually

1:06

known of france for many many years

1:09

and gotten there were a little bit i wish we were closer

1:11

living on not the same coast

1:14

but she is just an absolute

1:16

rock star she's on a

1:18

mission to empower women to go further

1:21

in their careers and

1:23

boy can see actually talk

1:25

a lot about different careers

1:27

and and overall just

1:29

everything that she learned along the way

1:31

with her own career which will talk

1:33

about ah she's been and media

1:35

and publishing and as i said she does

1:37

recently wrote her second perk

1:39

her first book which i'm going to get her to talk about

1:42

a little bit too was absolutely

1:44

terrific and i'm just

1:46

really just really to have you hear from

1:48

so i will stop talking

1:50

and dot and let you do a little bit more

1:53

they're so happy to to see you so

1:55

happy to be here with yeah

1:57

it was very very good

1:59

so so market and just

2:01

a little bit about the beginning so who is

2:03

fran and who was fran let's

2:05

even go way back like to the beginning he was

2:07

fran as a kid did you always know

2:09

first of all that you were going to be and median

2:12

publishing and also that you were gonna be an author

2:15

and you were going to write your books oh

2:17

my gosh love

2:19

when i think about my childhood in a really

2:21

does the first thing that comes to mind is that my

2:23

parents are immigrants you

2:25

know and i was actually

2:26

the even born in italy in that your calabria

2:29

which is like wow the tip of the do

2:31

you know across from sicily and

2:34

and we moved to westchester

2:36

county which is you know just north

2:38

of manhattan

2:40

and and oldest of four

2:43

my parents were both small business

2:45

owners to my dad was the a stonemason

2:48

and a landscape

2:48

there and my mother with a killer

2:51

the and ip

2:53

we started working

2:54

with them at is area me it's like

2:57

when i lived in first grade i was doing my dad

2:59

and voices the landscaping

3:01

business i mean a bit crazy

3:03

like literally i remember vividly

3:06

they could add but i couldn't multiply select

3:08

yeah calculating sales tax like

3:10

actually had a t ball that i would like poll like

3:12

to sell products later experience though right

3:15

amazing experience and just you

3:17

know i was there translator you know italian

3:19

was their first language so

3:22

i carried a a

3:24

lot of responsibilities i'll add

3:27

exposed to business

3:29

very young age

3:30

i'm any onto that see my parents

3:33

and action and you know the they

3:35

very beautiful

3:37

hurry and warm sharing

3:40

the people and their office

3:42

draw

3:42

you know like and that my my first

3:45

but the missus a nice girl is all

3:47

about how you don't have to choose between been nice then

3:49

been strong and i and i think

3:51

the best leaders actually lead with both

3:54

of those qualities so i saw that in my parents

3:56

in terms of the way they interacted with

3:58

their the you then

3:59

employees

4:01

and i have to tell you care like

4:03

i was

4:03

huge reader

4:04

when i was a child idle idle

4:06

for recess race it's readers psyllium

4:10

so i i'm becoming an otter one

4:12

day just seems so like unattainable

4:15

the me

4:16

you know or even like the idea of working for

4:18

time inc you know i'm

4:20

you know brands like people in his

4:22

style and entertainment

4:25

like so far like so

4:27

if is really so amazing

4:29

and rewarding

4:32

he that i was able to

4:34

achieve those things because they just really

4:36

honestly themed

4:38

so unattainable to someone

4:40

who

4:41

you know first the my family though

4:43

the college my parents had

4:45

no network really that could be helpful

4:48

to me i really had to figure it out

4:50

on my own one

4:51

i'm a lot of like my make has

4:54

been my sister my brothers or

4:55

quite how did you do it you know

4:57

like how did that have this

4:59

though it's super exciting to

5:01

see their career

5:04

trajectory that i've had

5:05

the your first job out of college

5:07

was what my first job

5:09

it's actually in public accounting and majored

5:12

in public accounting an and i worked

5:14

at pricewaterhouse

5:16

and actually that's right now may have sent

5:19

and he was always on the partner

5:21

track and i wasn't it was

5:23

interesting i was kind of like i want to go work for a client

5:26

you know kinda want to work on the operating side

5:29

i'm to actually that is what and that of

5:31

do they ended up going to work for coca cola

5:33

after four years and public accounting i

5:35

don't know that in his manager financial

5:38

reporting wrong i

5:40

can finance were fighting a coke i know this

5:42

is very relevant you care i'm a super

5:44

morality irrelevant

5:46

atlanta so

5:49

you know and then i was there for about four years

5:51

and i i realized that

5:53

while i really insulate finance

5:56

an accounting and really wanted to be

5:58

and more of a general manager

5:59

it wrong with i wanted to ryan

6:02

all aspects of the business

6:04

they ended up getting a call from a

6:06

recruiter one day about a job

6:09

at moviefone that

6:11

than it was

6:12

seven seven seven film yeah and

6:14

they really just launching the phone dot com

6:17

do you were looking for i had a fun here's

6:19

my i met with the fine with the founders and

6:21

i said

6:22

you know this is really exciting as the internet

6:25

it's media

6:28

i i i wanted to this

6:30

that it's really important to me that i

6:32

get exposure

6:33

the different parts of the company not to finance

6:36

because eventually i do want to move into it that

6:38

she emerald i'm a big

6:40

made it that they would give me that opportunity

6:43

which had huge fit into fights stated coke

6:45

i would have stayed on that

6:46

finance trajectory could

6:49

hard when you work for a company he now

6:51

like to all the sudden move to marketing

6:53

or to move into a different department then

6:56

why you know everyone a coca cola thought

6:58

as crazy the leaves

7:00

one of the world's most admired companies

7:03

go to work for this early stage company

7:05

that like none of them edema heard out

7:08

the in a huge rest they have to

7:10

tell you the best

7:12

career decision i think that i could have made because

7:15

bjp me exposure to different

7:17

parts to the best that we ultimately ends up

7:20

falling will be fun to a allow

7:22

and they were to sounders retires

7:24

i ended up running lizzie sounded the

7:26

division of a allow

7:28

that would make

7:29

general that's

7:31

why a while and then timing can

7:33

like that that was really the beginning of my

7:35

media he of digital media

7:37

in general management

7:39

that's wild you and i like

7:41

mr

7:42

each other and bus tracks so

7:44

i cause i was time and then i was

7:46

a oh all right with that surveys

7:49

that is absolutely crazy

7:51

so what's shock real quickly

7:53

about so that book the the midst of

7:55

the nice girl which to learn

7:57

from being and small companies vs

8:00

mike larger

8:02

companies i mean i feel like

8:04

people have a so often

8:07

saw it in

8:07

particularly women talk about you

8:10

know

8:10

you gotta be tough you gotta be like

8:13

you know you've gotta be the boss

8:15

right in order to

8:17

go up

8:18

the were out

8:19

the organization and of what you

8:21

think at like i

8:23

i just can't imagine you i think

8:25

you're you're definitely a boss for sure

8:28

but you're also kind and

8:30

year empathetic and all of those

8:32

things so at what point do

8:34

you think

8:35

that becomes

8:37

something that people start to realize

8:39

and in people and at along the way

8:41

that you need to remain kind

8:44

you need to remain empathetic specially

8:46

when you're managing people cs and dealing

8:48

with customers and feeling with like

8:50

if you always do

8:52

yeah and i know it's interesting because

8:55

earlier in my career when and it's more

8:57

of like in an individual contributor role

9:00

buick i was getty that advice like you

9:02

need to toughen up you know you're you're you're

9:04

too nice

9:05

you're you're not going to get it has

9:08

you you really need to be tougher

9:10

and

9:11

you know what i realized is that

9:13

i'm the most sensitive

9:15

when i am

9:17

my true self and

9:19

who i am a human being

9:21

you know when i break

9:22

the value and fall at ease

9:25

the word

9:26

that's when i really feel like i do my best

9:28

work because

9:29

you know i feel

9:32

i know the word authentic i feel like a thing over

9:34

used right now but there's this like authenticity

9:37

you know there's there's confidence that that comes

9:39

from that and you know what i realized

9:41

care of that

9:42

the nine or so much we're

9:44

in it because when you nice people

9:47

the tracks you and

9:50

then you're able adult relationship

9:53

relationships are based on trial

9:55

the now and then and i

9:57

just feel like it then to the gate business the

10:00

all about relationships right it's not

10:02

about been successful business

10:04

of their relationships i want to

10:05

there a quick story with you slippery they took

10:07

the i never the timing niche

10:10

craved was

10:11

er vi else to he ran the

10:13

technology department and

10:15

i remember talking to him lived and he

10:17

the only time anybody coffin

10:19

the plane

10:20

you know that the website and down the computer

10:23

network a great may and

10:25

i just made that effort i would

10:27

genuinely just liked him so much

10:29

and i really respected him and i me

10:31

such an effort to say thank

10:34

you to him you know just to like sent him

10:36

an email com and

10:38

like is somebody out his team i did a really

10:40

great job i would even write email

10:42

to yo i'm times and copy

10:44

match and giving

10:47

credit inner city his department

10:49

and love it and i have to tell

10:51

you the support and because i was the president

10:53

of digital i'm running

10:56

you know the digital manifestation

10:58

of all of these magazine brands like whether

11:01

they were web sites are asked i needed

11:03

niches he likes all i needed

11:05

resources you know the when

11:07

ever i would go edition and asking for resources

11:10

he would always say like of what he did ask

11:12

me now i can never say no you and

11:15

it's just it's think a really good example

11:17

of how bad relationship

11:20

that with delved into very genuine way

11:22

not an m manipulative way right that very

11:24

genuine

11:25

he became such an important hurt her to

11:27

me you know when i think about people

11:29

dot com becoming the largest media

11:32

websites in the world

11:34

my team that that did that we

11:36

could have done that without

11:38

net and his team him

11:43

oh important to think about how you treat

11:45

people

11:46

and i think this parlays into your

11:49

your next book when

11:51

the embrace the work love your

11:53

career because i think the more

11:56

you get to know people were around

11:58

you and people who

11:59

input and

11:59

your business to weather

12:02

it's colleagues or a support

12:04

them along the way that

12:07

actually helps you to really understand

12:09

your business and love your your

12:11

business even more right you're not

12:13

sitting there waking up and complaining to the

12:15

i t department your instead trying to

12:17

really understand how to make

12:19

things better and get getting them on the same

12:22

page as you so talk to me a little

12:24

bit about you know that real as a

12:26

the and to and why you decided to write

12:28

this book

12:29

yeah i mean out

12:30

really came to me and imminent

12:32

the pandemic and you

12:34

know it just remember

12:37

reading all of the article about

12:39

the millions of women

12:41

leaving the workforce

12:42

millions more questioning their career

12:45

path and their perfect

12:46

and frankly others

12:47

the thing so many of my friends and colleagues really

12:49

struggling with just

12:52

like finding your way your now in there

12:54

were in their career

12:56

them and i wanted to do something

12:58

i left create content and i i realize

13:01

that over the years

13:02

i've done so much man train and i've

13:04

given still money talks and i was

13:07

really sitting on all of these like x

13:08

the sniper and questions that

13:10

the people and

13:13

and strategies and script

13:16

the guy

13:16

no it be so fun to create like

13:19

of a guided were far

13:20

that's like you said that we have

13:22

a lot of clinton interim

13:24

the stories and strategies

13:27

and technique

13:28

there are so many moments throughout

13:30

the buck where you can just reflects you

13:32

know why ask the question

13:34

i'm like one of the questions that i am loving

13:36

the book is them

13:38

is it it's an exercise where i ask

13:40

you to look your calendar for the last

13:42

q three months

13:44

whatever works for you

13:45

it out in meetings for the experiences

13:48

with the event that put a smile on your face

13:50

really like think about why

13:52

like what was that about that experience

13:54

as a self fulfilling you know was it

13:57

had a problem the you resolving with

13:59

the people

13:59

you are working with

14:01

you know what did it go

14:03

fast maybe that the you are using

14:05

what you can figure out like

14:08

the parts of your job that are really working for

14:10

you

14:11

you may be able to do

14:12

that you know you might be able to say like

14:14

okay is like for me i remember do

14:16

exercise and at the time inc and i've

14:18

been there for eight years

14:20

during feel that edge and

14:22

i was just though focused on what wasn't working

14:24

for me

14:25

in my job they did

14:27

exercise and i realized well i must meeting

14:29

start of founders like i actually

14:31

really enjoyed that is like a really fun part

14:34

of my john meeting the rent the runway founders

14:36

the for the laws you know where the can

14:38

move on

14:40

i'm like helping them think she really

14:42

tough business model in their products and

14:44

the to i actually went to my boss and

14:47

talk to her about that like a really love it for my

14:49

job i think i could create more value

14:51

for the companies like is focused on it more

14:54

to we have

14:55

the watch this innovation lab at the the

14:57

any that i ended up winning

14:58

and that got me two more years

15:00

fair

15:01

the trials will it'll have to the concert of the

15:03

mr

15:04

because like instead of focusing on

15:06

what wasn't working it's like a what is

15:08

working and is there a way to do more that

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you know what that sound means? another sale

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if you can listen to the kara goals and show

16:48

for a while you may have heard about

16:50

my book undaunted which by

16:52

the way is now a wall street journal

16:54

and amazon bestseller

16:57

in undaunted you will learn about my journey

16:59

not only how i came up with the idea for

17:01

him but also the ups and downs

17:03

twists and turns along the way i

17:06

learned from stories and i guess my own

17:08

story is no exception you will definitely

17:10

hear it all in undaunted listening

17:13

to books as one of my favorite secrets

17:15

to

17:16

adding more bucks under my belt

17:18

i find that i can always get

17:20

a bit of listening in whether it's on

17:22

my lunch break or even on a hike

17:24

probably the thing that has made me happiest

17:26

about writing this book is hearing from people

17:29

hearing how this box has helped them

17:31

pushed through hard saying but they

17:34

are dealing with and try new

17:36

ones i've heard from countless people

17:38

how and donna does help them see that they

17:40

are not alone in their difficult times

17:42

but also how pushing forward and

17:45

finding a way is usually what

17:47

it takes looking back and my

17:49

stories and sharing observations

17:51

about how i got through just

17:53

those sticky moments might

17:55

help you think about some of your own

17:57

sticky situations as well don't

18:00

let anyone tell you that you

18:02

can't do something it's time to

18:04

move past your for years and defy the

18:06

doubters to why book and genre

18:08

does available everywhere books are sold on

18:10

amazon and audible as well and

18:12

shoot me a dm and tell me what you think

18:15

after the show

18:16

one of my favorite chapters in

18:19

park actually had a couple of chapters that

18:21

were really great and in particular

18:23

but what do you want to be known

18:25

for and i certainly asked myself

18:28

that question many many times i

18:30

think that that in

18:32

combination with the

18:34

, on creating time because

18:37

i think that often times when you

18:40

are a kind person as

18:42

you are actually saying no

18:45

the two people right that

18:47

it's not only about trying to find time

18:50

to do the things that you wanna do better

18:52

also figuring out okay i started

18:54

doing something because i

18:57

knew it was right for my job or

19:00

you know you're a great example of somebody

19:02

who's moved from accounting

19:05

on over to a large cpg

19:07

company to publish saying

19:10

and then you're not done

19:12

right you're constantly learning you're constantly

19:14

innovating yourself why

19:17

do yourself think

19:17

important for people

19:19

the and looming backup to

19:21

i feel also that and i

19:24

particularly see this because i have college

19:26

aged kids you think about this where the

19:28

importance of actually getting

19:30

not job and like growing into a manager

19:33

and all the sudden you grow

19:35

up in an organization as you did

19:38

it to actually oh back

19:40

down to the learning phase and you

19:42

know maybe go into creating an innovation

19:45

the lab as you dance like your

19:47

it's really about the learning and

19:49

now there's something that you've figured

19:52

out about

19:53

for yourself that's that's what helps

19:55

you to really embrace your work

19:57

it's not leaders are stopping to do other work

20:00

the early you can do it outside of the

20:02

companies gascon can also do it in your

20:04

existing so talk to me a little bit about that

20:06

yeah i love that i i i think it's

20:08

just so and

20:10

in could be

20:12

open and speak sure yeah and

20:14

you know

20:16

the you think about like

20:18

my colleague whenever that training

20:21

end i can

20:23

have looked up from my computer one day and realized

20:26

that everyone in my network

20:28

they were all media people and

20:31

we were all talking about the same issues

20:33

and challenges you know we get together the

20:35

ad models broken the desk to that and

20:39

i just realized like you know a really want

20:41

you meet people and in other

20:44

sectors and i was really interested in technology

20:46

and i was really interested in the nonprofit space

20:50

and so hi rick

20:52

i'll give you an example actually the not the non

20:54

profit face i

20:56

, a book half half the sky by

20:58

nick kristof and cheryl with done an

21:00

amazing needing that and it

21:03

ended that be talked about the non

21:05

profit organization called global giving

21:07

which is really the world's first fascinating

21:09

sector for like for local grassroots

21:13

right

21:14

are you can retrieve that it's organization

21:17

an interesting life i

21:19

in my job either using technology

21:21

more for entertainment purposes for people

21:24

that on the entertainment weekly entice but

21:26

they figure out a way to use technology for good

21:28

i literally like sound

21:31

the c e o of global giving and

21:33

founder i just like doctor at like on mine

21:35

and i sent her a note and introduce

21:38

myself after i'd love to figure out a way to be helpful

21:40

to you and the

21:43

next time she was a new york we got together

21:45

i got no the organization i started

21:47

like dabbling in be hot anyway i ended up

21:49

doing a ten year board

21:51

you know for them many years has

21:53

been there for

21:54

i did it all came from me like reading

21:56

as fuck

21:57

and just kind of getting curious about

21:59

his organization

22:02

doing outreach you know

22:04

and to rid of it beautiful

22:06

and relationship for them

22:07

the technology i never cleaned moved into

22:10

started investing that's what i've been doing

22:12

the last eight years right

22:14

i never could have done that if

22:16

i didn't make it a priority to meet

22:19

people in the text face while i was

22:21

at tiny are true sir i guarantee

22:24

you know this this is a huge for me i a

22:26

matter for the first time

22:28

the founder

22:30

the i we're we're sitting inside a time like building

22:32

of a pan quotidian you know having a coffee

22:34

house and she literally sets me

22:36

she said you know fran as so many

22:39

female friends the new york

22:41

city you want to launched assistance

22:42

when they work as a don't be any

22:45

female angel investors for advisers

22:48

and i really think you

22:49

do that but i think you would be amazing

22:51

that

22:52

she's kind of planted repeat

22:54

for me and london at his feet

22:56

and then she opened up for networks to

22:58

me

22:59

the with someone they first investments worst araya

23:02

is it's awry actually a week and her friend

23:04

but again it's like

23:06

be it putting yourself out there is being

23:08

open it's been curious is taking these meetings

23:11

is asking questions

23:13

right and meanwhile i feel like so many

23:15

my colleague

23:17

training for didn't do that

23:19

to her like heads down my getting the work

23:21

done

23:23

right and then print

23:25

publishing publishing inferred

23:27

yeah and then would you do where do you regret

23:29

it right when it's to when it's almost

23:31

too late but i think that there's another

23:33

thing that i always share with people one

23:35

of the things when i started hints

23:37

that i i kept thinking to myself okay

23:40

i'm super curious about this

23:42

whole world and i'm in a jump in and see

23:44

what i can figure out but i always

23:47

felt like i could go back

23:50

the you

23:51

i could go back to attack i could go

23:53

back to yeah i could go

23:55

back and do these things and so i think

23:57

it's almost an advantage when you

23:59

these different experiences

24:02

as well where people think of it as

24:04

a risk i thought of it as actually

24:06

less of a risk because i had had all

24:08

this amazing experience and same with you

24:10

and if nothing else you

24:12

, and learning about nonprofits

24:16

nonprofits it doesn't work out than you

24:18

learn something about yourself

24:21

and what do you like and what you don't blame

24:23

or what you're good at what you're not so

24:25

great outer know you're interested in

24:27

more than anything else when than loved

24:30

about embrace the work love your

24:32

career so too was

24:34

that you talk to that mentoring and i like

24:36

you probably get a lot of people

24:39

who were asking oh can you mentor

24:41

but they don't really have

24:43

the guidelines to sort of him

24:46

you may ask him questions like what are you

24:48

like to or whatever how do you spend

24:50

your time your know like

24:52

more than anything i think this

24:54

also gives you

24:57

it's a workbook right and you don't

24:59

have to have time with frown you got

25:01

this reality or i'll be able

25:03

to do it in it really pushes

25:06

you to kind of be thoughtful and think

25:08

about these things and in

25:10

or maybe instead of by

25:12

the spending time meditating

25:14

on on one day maybe you go

25:16

and take your work bark and and are

25:19

really sinking

25:20

about these these issues and

25:22

at you want to change with the sunny

25:24

sunny think this is like ina we all

25:26

did it food climate you know be satisfied

25:28

like the five days seven days and

25:31

the to the clans and clinically

25:33

that's what the fuck is the for your career

25:35

you now it's like

25:36

the action and if and

25:38

a couple of hours on each faction if

25:40

over sixties

25:42

your to put a gift yourself because

25:45

we don't keep the time litigious take a

25:47

step back and really do the work to think

25:49

about like okay what's working

25:51

what can i you know what are some things that

25:53

i want to explore and

25:56

would do i want to be known for like was

25:58

well my legacy to be you

26:00

know where is my personal bramley really thing

26:02

into it as thing the

26:04

to i do i

26:06

love a you are you picked up on that kara

26:08

says really important to me

26:09

and you know entering like it's

26:13

really important that if someone

26:16

if someone asks you for coffee

26:19

and you you do the coffee with that are you you

26:21

do a phone call or if you do

26:23

how important that they

26:25

really prepare i think for the meeting with you

26:27

as he asked you like very specific question

26:31

on vs just like our the to

26:33

tell me that your career like

26:35

read know you're in a mean it's all

26:37

on line like so i

26:39

really appreciate it when people can would like

26:41

very specific like how

26:43

did you pizzazz fan in a media

26:46

to start up in that thing like live in a

26:48

row over the things that that helps you to do

26:50

that would be

26:51

due to work be specific he now

26:54

now now i think that that's really important in fact

26:56

i so often say to people

26:59

when i'm talking to them what

27:01

was the reason why you

27:03

want as have to me right

27:05

what's your why

27:07

for wanting to talk to me okay

27:09

i wanna know because you

27:11

have

27:12

change from one industry to another

27:14

you

27:16

you know had a million kids and

27:19

also run a company like okay whatever

27:21

it is the author has what is it that

27:23

thing so definitely i think

27:25

it it

27:26

he's off a conversation much better than

27:29

to your point not having done the research

27:31

not having yeah have work

27:32

yeah the so definitely

27:35

everyone should pick up this

27:37

and it

27:38

the work it's absolutely great

27:40

and you guys have

27:42

i'm on my favorite entrepreneurs tiffany

27:44

do rebecca minkoff on

27:46

the back of here to i loved seeing that

27:48

that was amazing to me one or the think

27:51

the things that i always ask all of

27:53

our gas question about

27:56

you know kind of your career when you were

27:58

trying to figure out what the lab

28:00

devout your career maybe what you didn't like

28:02

about your career that were you

28:04

just really sell you were challenged

28:07

and maybe if you really

28:08

enjoyed yourself more and had

28:11

done

28:11

workbook how to add it

28:14

already mouth tell you would have said you

28:16

know what i should have gone sooner i

28:18

should have known this about myself

28:20

like so often i think that maybe

28:22

we stay too long at places

28:25

and then

28:26

you know we start to get grumpy write

28:28

letters to get angry we don't do is great

28:30

of work where we sort of

28:32

reversing get into some defense mode

28:35

maybe researchers see or own challenges

28:37

are failures or something that you know

28:40

you there's someone elses falter

28:43

or whatever it is but will

28:45

have you seen that along the way

28:48

that

28:48

you you know are like boy i'm

28:50

never gonna do that again if that makes sense

28:52

you

28:54

interesting because when a look at

28:57

my resume he know my bio

29:00

so fascinating is

29:02

that i made like a fake

29:04

mood as it's a pretty much every

29:06

four years

29:08

it's really

29:10

interesting and i i think

29:11

the something to that like if you think about

29:14

you know your first year in a job you're

29:16

learning

29:17

really not a productive right

29:19

then in your shoe like you become productive

29:22

and years to really like you knew your

29:24

chilling

29:24

the rewrite you're really and like a good grew

29:27

you know when you're creating a lot of value

29:29

a nanny feel like it's like towards the

29:31

end of your three where you start getting kind

29:33

of bored and the and then they

29:35

and it's it's just too fast any my my god

29:37

the out they will get you don't like best for

29:40

year mark i'm

29:42

a week for me i think that and

29:46

gosh i would probably right

29:49

to go back i feel like as is a training for ten

29:51

years you know that that's a long time

29:53

since a long time and even though like

29:55

i had promotions like i felt like every four

29:57

years

29:58

i started feeling

29:59

very presents all i started

30:02

feeling like it's probably around

30:04

the be your section

30:05

seven innovative was care i know never

30:07

forget that i was having

30:08

the and more frisbee out

30:10

and i remember it like talking her

30:12

about that they said i should shoot each other's

30:14

the comes to administrator like the seeker

30:17

my job guess like the more brand

30:19

that i take on the first as i was just

30:21

working on people that you know but

30:24

now that if she can always brand i just

30:26

feel like it's you know

30:28

i'm like putting budget together and i'm

30:30

working and constantine men and i'm sitting ducks

30:32

together with for you to the florida

30:34

and an nc i remember

30:37

her saying to me she's like you know live plants like

30:39

trump would be careful what you wish for

30:47

working up for those traitors you the president

30:49

of sports illustrated

30:51

the now and issue and actually the field the whole company

30:54

and i think for me like what

30:56

like realized with that i

30:58

really love to build i love

31:00

like working on a brand unwind

31:03

green you to to re oh look

31:05

what you've accomplished mean it's so

31:08

i think the me right there

31:10

was a beta hi alison the focus

31:12

on promotion taking on

31:14

more responsibility great people that

31:16

the guy know a lot more gimme more brand

31:19

anything thousand

31:20

really big big wake up call

31:23

the me

31:23

that wow look i really miss running

31:27

a brand you know anything

31:29

close to the consumer and there's no

31:31

wrong answer

31:32

i'm not either i mean now something that i

31:34

don't think they

31:36

the judge i

31:37

that the sun and few business school

31:39

classes and and as

31:41

you are university classes

31:43

like i don't think they teach that in school instead

31:46

it's go on be a manager and then and director

31:48

and v p and there are many

31:50

people i know who has dot who have gone that

31:52

route and have been successful at

31:55

it frankly to and and not

31:57

the happiest people and i think they get

31:59

into

31:59

the i'm you

32:02

know they're know they're embracing

32:04

the work right there there instead

32:06

in

32:07

the role where they've got to figure out

32:09

who's doing things right who's doing

32:11

what's wrong who are had away

32:13

evaluate them and it's just not

32:15

what yeah you and you know

32:17

and

32:18

right

32:20

one hundred from lateral move them in hundred

32:22

and thirty something maybe six couples

32:24

that ah kin you know who i admire

32:27

so much i don't know if you ever worked with

32:29

on jack rather hand rather

32:31

with the publisher

32:32

the people magazine

32:33

and you know in in publishing

32:36

like

32:37

that's the highest level that you can get to

32:40

the brand under didn't address

32:41

right and i remember

32:43

him saying to me like look i'm

32:46

really worried fan because they feel like i'm missing the boat

32:48

on digital like except for my

32:50

you know the internet was like really get getting telling

32:52

and i'm and see decided

32:54

to go back he went to a oh wow

32:57

and took like a sales

32:58

though she's to that he could learn

33:01

online advertising then

33:03

i just remember feeling like

33:06

i didn't i had he did that

33:08

he took hold

33:10

the

33:11

no and ultimately the too smart

33:13

because now he a print and digital experience

33:15

any ended up telling you now and a

33:17

else if he's had an incredible career

33:20

but i just remember thinking like wow

33:22

okay so it's not just as linear

33:24

like

33:25

hierarchical you know

33:27

right well and then you get you

33:29

gained so much more appreciation but

33:31

also so much experience more experience

33:33

for how everything works so that was really

33:36

really smart and for him to do

33:38

that for

33:38

well thank you so much

33:40

from this is absolutely amazing

33:43

again embraced embraced the

33:45

work loved your career best

33:48

place for people to purchases

33:50

so it is available everywhere

33:52

it's an amazon barnes and noble it's

33:54

in bookstores

33:56

everywhere but yourselves

33:57

and by the way i love the feel of it

33:59

oh my god thank you that's

34:02

we were

34:02

harder now that even read the paper

34:04

we and she has the enemy hands

34:06

i tested

34:07

i'm sorry i'm so funny about

34:09

that's to of luck than been in publishing

34:11

and so i am i love

34:14

it so those are good and the color

34:16

and everything so you can definitely tell that

34:18

you're anesthetic for see them as a

34:20

fucking yeah yeah so great will

34:22

and thank you everybody for listening

34:25

we're so excited to

34:27

have gas like fran here and

34:29

other founders and ceos

34:31

where we can hear lots of their stories to that we

34:33

can all learn ,

34:36

and and frankly know that we're

34:38

not alone and that we

34:40

can all be be

34:42

if we choose to be so

34:45

thank you again and again

34:48

everyone subscribed to this podcast

34:50

i give the show five star ratings

34:52

it really helps in the algorithms

34:54

and i can be found on all platforms

34:57

that kara golden and kara are

35:00

my book condolences as many of you

35:02

know launched just over a year

35:04

ago i may year another book in

35:06

my cards as well in my

35:10

a lotta work to do and order to see that

35:12

but definitely i have have really

35:14

enjoyed getting that book out there and

35:17

we are here every monday wednesday and

35:19

just recently launched friday as well

35:21

so it's some it's been

35:23

really fun to be able to get everyone else

35:26

the stories out there as well so

35:28

thanks everyone for listening thanks again

35:30

fran and everyone have a great

35:32

rest of the week things yeah before

35:35

we find

35:35

i want to talk to you about fear

35:38

people like to talk about fearless

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also free case of hint water

36:16

you have a question for me

36:18

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36:20

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36:23

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36:26

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36:28

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36:38

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