This damn fine podcast is with a man who has worked as a producer, writer, van builder, winemaker, experiential designer, and restaurant owner. His name is Jordan Chiu and he is one of the most erudite souls I know. In 2018, Jordan built out a van, put his stuff in storage, and drove from California to Argentina. He came back with a lifetime’s worth of lessons, memories, and an incredible partner, who he then tragically lost to suicide after she lost her battle with depression. That loss has fueled his mental health advocacy work and his podcast, Never The Same, which shares stories of people navigating uncertainty and the events that changed them. He can often be found outside on an adventure accompanied by his dog Clover and a good playlist.

Many mornings per week, Jordan is awoken by vocal yawns from yours truly. He’s my housemate, sleeps one wall away, and describes my sunrise shrieks as “baby dinosaur groans.”

Sorry Jordan, but I’ll never change.

P.S. If you dig this podcast, will you please leave a short review on Apple Podcasts? It takes less than 60 seconds and makes a difference when I drop to my knees and beg hard-to-get guests on the show. You can get my Friday newsletter on Substack. It’s glorious.

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