0:07

Hey , leader , and welcome to another episode of the L3

0:09

Leadership Podcast , where we are obsessed with helping

0:12

you grow to your maximum potential and to maximize

0:14

the impact of your leadership . My name is Doug

0:16

Smith and I am your host , and today's episode is brought

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or Spotify or whatever app you listen to podcast

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through . That really does help us to grow our audience

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and reach more leaders , so thank you in advance for

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that . Well , leader , in this week's episode of the podcast

0:52

, you are in for a treat . You're going to hear my conversation

0:54

with coach Anson Durant , who is an absolute

0:57

legend . If you're unfamiliar with coach

0:59

, let me just tell you a little bit about him . Anson

1:01

has been coach of the University of North Carolina's

1:03

women's soccer team for over 47

1:05

years . In fact , he is the one and only

1:07

coach that the program has ever had and

1:10

under his coaching and leadership he has led

1:12

the teams that he's led to 22

1:15

national championships . He has been a

1:17

time coach of the year . He was coach of the

1:19

1991 World Cup champion

1:21

team Team USA . He's a Hall of Famer

1:23

, a leader and mentor to so many , and

1:25

in our conversation you're going to hear him talk about what he

1:27

calls the competitive cauldron , which is incredible

1:30

. You're going to hear him talk about what separated

1:32

him from all the other coaches and competition

1:34

, what separates the great players

1:37

from everybody else , how to draw potential

1:39

out of others , and so much more . And

1:41

all I can really tell you is buckle up , get

1:43

out your pen and paper and get ready to take

1:45

a massive amount of notes . This was one of my

1:47

favorite interviews of all time and

1:50

I just can't wait for you to listen . But before

1:52

we get into the conversation , just a few announcements

1:54

. This episode of the L3 Leadership Podcast

1:56

is sponsored by Beratung Advisors . The

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financial advisors at Beratung Advisors help

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are separate entities . I

2:27

also want to thank our He nne Jewelers . They were joloned

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R-E-I-T-U-R-N . com . Investing

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involves risk . Please consult the return offering

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circular if you're interested in investing . And

3:11

with all that being said , here's my conversation with coach

3:13

Anson Durrance . Well

3:17

, Anson , welcome to the L3 Leadership Podcast

3:19

. I've been looking forward to this for quite some time

3:21

. You have an unbelievable

3:24

resume , probably one of the greatest on earth

3:26

. You've been a coach at UNC

3:28

for 47 years the only coach in history

3:30

. Career record of

3:32

1,093 wins , 150

3:35

losses in 66 ties , have 22

3:38

national titles . You

3:41

are on , and I could go on and

3:43

on . You led the team USA

3:45

to the first ever women's cup . I can let you talk

3:47

more about this , but tell us a little bit

3:49

about yourself and I'm curious specifically

3:51

what do you think has set you apart ? There's

3:53

thousands of coaches all over the nation . What

3:55

has set you apart to see such incredible results versus

3:58

everyone else who may not ?

4:00

Well , honestly , there's no sort

4:03

of mythical , I

4:06

guess , algorithm for winning

4:08

in collegiate athletics . You've got to be an effective

4:10

recruiter , and obviously I worked for

4:13

a remarkable university that's very attractive

4:15

, and so we've been in a position

4:17

to recruit some incredible student

4:20

athletes . And so anyone in collegiate athletics

4:22

that pretends that they

4:24

win for reasons other than the

4:26

talent they have on their roster is just , you

4:29

know , bloviating in the most

4:31

negative way . So , no , I've

4:33

had a collection of amazing

4:36

young women that , have you

4:38

know , killed themselves to compete at the highest level

4:40

, and I worked for a university

4:42

that's very attractive , and so for me

4:44

it certainly comes down to the elite

4:47

athletes that we've attracted to the university

4:49

. And then I think , there

4:51

you know , once you do have these amazing

4:53

athletes , you have a moral

4:55

imperative to try to take them to their

4:57

potential . And I think we have three

5:00

different elements that I think

5:02

assist us in getting to our potential

5:04

. And the first element is something

5:07

that I think is talked about consistently

5:09

, and I appreciate the fact that

5:11

is talked about consistently , because

5:14

this has been a huge weapon for us from

5:16

the beginning . I believe

5:18

that if you want to become elite at anything

5:20

, you've got to compete , and

5:23

so this thing that we've stolen

5:25

from Dean Smith and the

5:27

men's basketball team here at the University of North

5:29

Carolina has served us incredibly

5:31

well , and it's a thing we call

5:33

the competitive cauldron , and

5:36

I'll share the backstory for it because I think you'll

5:38

appreciate this . I

5:40

was a young coach here at UNC , you

5:42

know , wet behind the ears , and we had

5:44

this absolutely brilliant man on campus that we

5:46

all admired by the name of Dean Smith , and

5:49

for those of you that don't know who this gentleman is

5:52

, this is Michael Jordan , this college

5:54

basketball coach , and

5:56

he was an extraordinary man , not just

5:58

an extraordinary coach , he was an extraordinary

6:00

man and he was such a generous

6:02

human being . He came up to me one day , when

6:04

I was , you know , recently

6:06

, hired , wet behind the ears and basically said

6:09

you know , hanson , if you're bored

6:11

one afternoon , you want to come watch us practice

6:14

basketball ? You know , please let my , my

6:17

staff know , and we'll set

6:19

you and your staff in the , you know , in

6:22

the auditorium and the Carmichael Center

6:24

. This is where , you know , michael Jordan basically

6:27

finished his basketball career . Of course , they've built

6:29

the Smith Center since then , but we'll

6:31

put you in Carmichael and you can watch

6:33

the practice and and I'm thinking

6:35

this is unbelievable . So this guy's going to let me come , you

6:37

know , watch practice . And and I thought

6:39

it was incredible so , of course , yes , yes , this

6:41

is Dean Smith , I mean , he's a God here

6:44

in Chapel Hill Then he's

6:46

invited me to watch practice . Now , of course

6:48

, of course . And so I show up one day

6:50

and of course I mustered in . I have to

6:52

show up at a certain time . It's incredibly

6:54

structured and I have to sit in a certain place with

6:56

my assistants . We're not allowed to

6:58

talk during the practice or not interfering

7:01

with what's going on . And what was also fascinating

7:03

for me is I am handed

7:06

by one of his managers , and

7:08

so is every one of my staff members , an

7:10

outline of the practice . Now I'm

7:12

looking down at this thing and first of all , I can't believe

7:14

it because it looks like

7:16

he's organized the practice to the minute

7:19

. I have never organized

7:21

a practice to the minute . I've got sort of a general

7:23

idea of what's going to go on that day . I know it's

7:25

going to be a hard day or a medium

7:28

day or a light day . I know the practice

7:30

is going to last an hour and a half or something , and

7:33

that's what I know . And other than that I don't know anything

7:35

. And then I started inventing stuff to do during the practice

7:37

based on my own experiences as a

7:39

player . And now I'm looking down at

7:42

this agenda for the training

7:44

session that day and I just can't believe

7:46

it . And first of all , I can't believe that someone

7:48

wrote all this down . How does anyone have time

7:50

during the day to actually write

7:52

down what's going to happen in practice

7:55

? Because I was used

7:57

to just being in sheer chaos every day of my

7:59

coaching life , couldn't catch up with

8:01

anything . Even getting on this podcast was

8:03

difficult for me . Why ? Because

8:05

I get like 400 emails a day . I

8:08

am harassed from every possible corridor

8:10

, which is why I wanted you to send me

8:12

this link five

8:14

minutes before we're on . Why ? Because

8:17

if you sent it an hour before we were on , I'd never find

8:19

it . So , anyway , thank goodness we're

8:21

actually on this thing together , but anyway . So I'm looking at

8:23

this agenda and I am shocked

8:25

. And then , of course , he follows

8:28

it . So , yeah , you know it's such

8:30

and such a time the warmup begins , and then

8:32

, all of a sudden , noise goes off and

8:34

then they go to their first training environment

8:36

and the players all scatter , going in different

8:38

directions the guards are going here , the forwards

8:41

are going here , the bigs are underneath the

8:43

basket playing 2v2 or something and

8:46

all of a sudden the noise goes off again . They all sprint

8:48

somewhere else and incredibly

8:50

organized and down to the minute . I'm now

8:52

looking down on my watch thing and , oh my gosh , yeah

8:55

, they are exactly on time

8:57

and I'm just I'm stunned . First of all , they actually have

8:59

an agenda and then they

9:01

follow the agenda . Yeah

9:03

, one day I decided to write out my practice . After

9:06

the practice , I looked at it and I was thinking , holy crap

9:09

, I didn't do any of this stuff . We have

9:11

the year in the practice and I was thinking this is amazing

9:13

. Now Dean Smith is following his own practice

9:15

outline and first of all , I'm stunned . But the

9:17

other thing I noticed pretty early is underneath

9:20

every basket is an assistant

9:22

manager with a clipboard and

9:24

I can see these guys writing data

9:26

down on the clipboards . Obviously

9:28

, if it's a free throw shooting

9:31

station , they're recording

9:33

of the hits or misses for all the kids

9:35

. If it's a mid-range

9:37

jumper station and I assume now

9:39

it would be a three-point shooting

9:41

station as well as they're all doing

9:43

these different things . And then , of course

9:45

, you've got these 3V3s full court with

9:48

the guards playing against each other , and the 4s

9:50

are doing that , and the centers are doing that , and then

9:52

it's 4V4 , sometimes 5V5

9:55

. And I assume the winners and losers are

9:57

being assailed and accumulated Every

10:00

now and again . You look at underneath one of

10:02

the baskets and the four bigs are there playing

10:04

2V2 . And I assume they're

10:07

writing down whether or not you boxed out

10:09

for the rebound or failed to , whether or

10:11

not you got a rebound or failed to , whether or not

10:13

the putback was something you

10:15

did or what someone else did . So anyway

10:17

, I am watching all of this data collection

10:20

and I am stunned . And

10:22

then at the end of practice and sure enough , it

10:24

followed the practice outline the

10:26

noise goes off , practice is over and

10:29

they all sprint . These guys with these clipboards

10:31

, these managers , have sprinted to the score stable

10:33

. The head manager is now

10:36

compiling that day's practice

10:38

data . Dean

10:40

now is addressing the boys and

10:43

he's chatting them in the vid and by the time he turns

10:45

around , the head manager has compiled

10:47

that day's practice data . Every

10:50

player is now ranked for

10:52

performance in that practice and

10:54

so if he has a 12th player roster that year , the

10:57

first four or five guys can leave and shower

10:59

immediately . The next eight

11:03

or nine kids are now lined up on whatever

11:05

you call the end line on a basketball

11:07

court and now they're sprinting out to the foul

11:10

line and back , then to the mid-striping , back

11:12

and to the other foul line and back and to the other end

11:14

of the court and back , and they're all doing

11:16

this on a clock

11:18

because the noise goes off and

11:20

if they're late they've got to either go

11:23

again or do a push-up or a set-up or something

11:25

, and then

11:27

that group leaves and then of the final group

11:29

that's been there the whole time , I assume

11:31

the last four guys in practice are sprinting

11:34

until the end of recorded time and I'm thinking , oh my

11:36

gosh , this is fantastic

11:38

. I loved the

11:40

accountability of it , I loved

11:43

the measurement of it , I loved

11:45

the immediate feedback of it and

11:47

I'm thinking this is incredible . So I got together with my

11:50

staff and we designed

11:52

a soccer competitive cauldron and

11:55

from then on we recorded everything in practice

11:57

and this just suited my personality

11:59

. I'm an alpha . I

12:02

would love to know at the end of every practice I'm the best

12:04

player on the field and

12:06

I assume that everyone knew that if I was out there

12:09

. Yeah , but I would love it certified

12:11

with data , so there is no contention

12:14

about who was the best that day . And

12:16

so , yeah , data can certify it for you . So I love

12:19

this . And so , all of a sudden , we started organizing

12:21

practices where we would compete

12:23

eventually , and it ended up 28 different categories

12:26

, and at the end of every

12:28

practice we'd assemble the data and then

12:30

my assistant

12:32

analytics team

12:35

would get together and they would rank

12:37

the kids in practice and then we would put

12:39

on a bulletin board the next day for practice in

12:42

28 different categories where you ranked . We

12:44

wouldn't necessarily do 28 different competitive

12:47

things a day . We would

12:49

obviously , at the beginning of the year you're doing

12:51

your fitness testing , so you would have your

12:53

beep test , which is a measure of your

12:55

aerobic capacity . You

12:57

would do sprint tests that would show your acceleration

13:00

and your 30 meter speed . You would

13:02

have agility tests and vertical jump tests

13:04

, and that stuff is up there from the

13:06

beginning so you can see where you stack

13:08

up against the rest of your teammates . And

13:11

then , of course , you're competing 1v1

13:13

tournaments , 77 tournaments

13:15

, 11v11 events and

13:17

heading ladders where you're

13:19

trying to battle people in the air . And

13:22

so we took our game of soccer

13:24

and we took it down to its fundamental

13:26

base and

13:29

we competed in everything we could . So

13:31

all of a sudden it's evolved to the point where , on

13:34

a 30 player roster , where

13:36

four kids

13:38

on the roster are goalkeepers , the

13:40

other 26 are field players

13:42

, everyone's ranked in

13:45

28 different categories based on their

13:47

success in competing in practice

13:49

. And so this cauldron has

13:51

developed a team that's extraordinarily competitive

13:54

, and in my opinion , it makes

13:56

a difference year to year because

13:58

our teams are consistently competitive

14:00

. We're competitive

14:03

in every game we play in , and a

14:05

lot of even great teams will

14:07

beat a good team one day and then

14:09

get slaughtered by a good team the next , and

14:12

one of my favorite statistics of all time

14:14

is this statistic where

14:16

for 603 games

14:19

in a row , we either

14:21

won the game , tied

14:24

the game or lost it by just

14:26

one goal . So for

14:28

603 games in a row

14:31

, we were in it until the last

14:33

second , and almost

14:35

every other team that we see in our Vietnam

14:37

again loses by two goals

14:39

, or sometimes three or four . That

14:42

doesn't happen to us , or when it happens , it's

14:45

incredibly rare . And I think what

14:47

the cauldron does for you , it makes you extraordinarily

14:50

competitive , and

14:52

I think a part of this is these

14:54

kids being bathed in

14:56

this cauldron of accountability , and

14:59

I think it's made all the difference in the world for

15:01

our teams from the beginning . So

15:04

I think that's one element that separates

15:06

our environment for player development . The

15:08

other element that I will

15:10

never undervalue are

15:13

the core values that we expect our kids

15:15

to live by . If you

15:17

jumped online right now and typed into your web

15:19

browser UNC , women's Soccer

15:21

Core Values , hopefully

15:23

the most recent rendition of them would

15:26

pop up . We have 13

15:28

core values and we expect all the kids to live

15:30

by them , and it's basically

15:32

a principle-centered living . This

15:34

might shock anyone listening to this podcast

15:36

, but I don't believe in rules . I

15:39

don't even believe in having a rule of showing up

15:41

on time , but we

15:43

expect everyone to show up on time Because

15:46

if you read through our core values , it's

15:49

about respecting people , it's

15:51

about respecting yourself , it's about making

15:53

good choices , and so , of course

15:56

, even without being told to show up on time

15:58

, you will show up on time Because

16:01

you're going to respect the people that have organized the practice

16:03

of the meeting , and this is all a part

16:05

of leading a principle-centered life . And

16:08

so we don't believe in certain things and we

16:10

have core values that admonish you from practicing

16:13

them . Like the first thing that

16:15

every player in our team memorizes is

16:17

this quote about not whining . I

16:20

don't know about you , but I absolutely abhor

16:23

winers . They drive

16:25

me absolutely crazy , and

16:27

almost all cultures are filled

16:29

with winers . I don't embrace it

16:31

, I never want to hear it . And so

16:33

the first core value everyone memorizes

16:36

that we expect them to live is

16:38

a George Bernard Shaw quote about

16:41

being a force of fortune instead

16:43

of a feverish , selfish little

16:45

cloud of ailments and grievances , complaining

16:48

that the world will not devote itself

16:50

to making you happy , because that's basically

16:52

what a whiner is . And my

16:54

favorite core value is a

16:56

Victor Franco quote about the last of

16:58

the human freedoms , which is to

17:00

choose your attitude in any given

17:03

set of circumstances , to

17:05

choose your own way . So we have

17:07

all these principles , and the way the principles

17:09

are framed are not with sort of

17:11

ordinary language . They're framed with

17:13

quotes that I think are inspiring , and

17:16

we expect our kids to memorize these

17:18

inspiring quotations and

17:20

then live them . And

17:22

then , twice a year , the young

17:24

women in our team basically evaluate

17:27

every teammate on each of

17:29

the 13 core values . And

17:31

if you were to attend our athletic banquet

17:34

, basically in the spring of

17:36

every year , the

17:38

top award of this banquet is not the MVP

17:40

and , by the way , we've had some

17:42

extraordinary MVPs I'm

17:45

Meneah Ham , christine Lilly , crystal

17:47

Dunn , tobin Heath , cindy Parlow

17:49

I could go down a list of names that

17:52

would just be shocking relative

17:54

to most programs that are out

17:56

there . So we have some amazing MVPs

17:58

, but that's not the top award

18:00

at our athletic banquet . The

18:03

top award at our athletic banquet is

18:05

the Kelly Muldoon Award for Character

18:07

. So which player

18:09

on the team , on basically

18:12

a peer vote , in living the 13

18:14

core values lives , a

18:16

principle-centered life , the best

18:18

? So I think my main job

18:21

as the women's soccer coach at the University

18:23

of North Carolina is not to win ACC

18:26

regular season championships or ACC

18:30

tournament championships or national championships

18:32

. I think my main job at the University

18:35

of North Carolina is to help

18:37

cultivate and develop extraordinary

18:39

human beings , and so the

18:41

cauldron is a critical element

18:43

for us . The core values

18:45

are another critical element . And then the final

18:48

piece is a more modern problem , and

18:52

this is the problem of basically

18:54

getting everyone's personal narrative

18:56

to the truth . What's happening

18:59

right now is we're raising our

19:01

kids differently , and the

19:03

way we're raising them right now is

19:05

we're raising them basically

19:07

protecting them from the chaos of

19:09

the universe , and in doing that

19:11

we're basically eliminating

19:13

them having any standards

19:16

and we're eliminating them having

19:18

any accountability . And

19:20

I'm certainly not a sociologist or a psychologist

19:22

, so I'm going to throw something out there , and who

19:24

knows what I'm about to throw out

19:26

is based in any sort of truth

19:28

. But here's what I speculate

19:30

. I speculate that somewhere

19:32

back there there

19:35

was this self-esteem movement that was being

19:37

developed by , who knows , maybe child

19:39

psychologists or maybe a collection

19:41

of sociologists , but I think it became

19:43

mainstream and I think the

19:45

theory back then was all right , I want my

19:48

children to develop an

19:50

incredible amount of self-esteem , and

19:53

one of the best ways to create self-esteem is

19:55

to obviously be positive with your children , and

19:58

please don't think I'm sitting here telling everyone

20:00

not to be positive with your children . Of course

20:02

you should be , but I think what ended up

20:05

happening is that sentiment

20:07

, which I think originally was a positive one

20:09

, went in the wrong direction . Because

20:12

then what started to happen with these parents that

20:14

weren't experienced sociologists

20:16

or experienced psychologists

20:19

basically started to praise

20:21

their children for anything they did , with

20:24

the illusion that if they could construct a

20:26

platform of basically self-esteem

20:28

with their children , they were going to conquer the

20:31

world , and all that ended up happening

20:33

is they ended up crippling their children , and

20:36

one of the biggest problems I have when a kid comes

20:38

into play . For me at the University of North Carolina

20:40

is their self-esteem

20:43

, and their basically personal

20:45

narrative has been constructed

20:47

by loving parents , by the way , that

20:50

wanted to protect them from the chaos in the universe

20:52

and then basically were

20:55

not critical of anything they did . And

20:58

so now they think they're God's gift

21:00

to the earth . And boy

21:02

is that entitled

21:04

individual almost impossible

21:06

to deal with , because they all

21:08

think they should start and play 90 minutes

21:10

, and what they don't understand is there are 30 players

21:12

in the roster and if you want to get

21:14

on the field , you've got to compete to get on the field

21:17

. In other words , if you want to get on the

21:19

field , you have to kick everyone's ass in practice

21:21

and that gets you on the field . And

21:23

if someone on the other team is kicking your ass in

21:25

the game , you're coming out and

21:28

I'm going to try someone else to

21:30

take up for the slack that you

21:32

basically gave the other team that got

21:34

them in the game or basically allowed

21:36

them to plant their flag in your zone . And

21:39

so , basically , this is about accountability . This

21:42

is about Dean Smith and his managers making

21:44

sure that every kid that left practice knew whether

21:46

or not they were the alpha that day . And

21:49

, trust me , failing every

21:51

day is humiliating in a very

21:53

positive way , because the first thing

21:55

you gather is you know what , you're not the greatest

21:57

thing on the planet and

22:00

you've got some work to do . And that

22:02

humility inspires , I think , all the great

22:04

ones , because all the great ones do want

22:06

to leave practice every day . Being declared

22:08

the alpha and one of the best

22:10

teachers they've ever had in their lives

22:12

is failure . And

22:15

so the third piece that's critical for me is

22:17

to get every kid's personal narrative

22:19

to the truth as fast as possible

22:21

, and they have never been told

22:23

the truth in their lives

22:26

, and now they have this collision

22:28

course with me , and the

22:30

truth is so painful for them to hear because

22:33

they've never heard it before . Mom

22:35

and dad have only seen the best player on every team

22:37

they've ever played on . Why ? Because

22:40

we're in that luxurious position . We

22:42

don't recruit the second best player on any team

22:44

. We recruit the best player on

22:46

the team , and oftentimes the kids

22:49

that we recruit are not just the best player

22:51

on that team , they're also the best player

22:53

in that league , and then oftentimes the

22:55

best player in that state and oftentimes

22:57

again , the best player east of the Mississippi

22:59

and sometimes the best player in the country

23:02

. So all these kids are coming in

23:04

together and guess what ? With all

23:06

those kids here , there's a new hierarchy . They're

23:09

not the best anymore and now they've got

23:11

to learn to live with the fact that they've got to do more

23:13

work and then possibly be this

23:15

thing called coachable , which

23:18

means listening to the stuff we're sharing with them

23:20

, if they want to get to the promised land , and

23:22

this is difficult for them . They've

23:24

never suffered in this way in their whole lives . And

23:26

then , of course , who are their touchstones

23:29

? Following a practice or following a game

23:31

, their parents , and

23:33

their parents are listening to them . And

23:36

what are they telling their parents ? A lot of times

23:38

they're telling their parents absolute

23:40

BS . There's very few kids

23:42

call home and say , oh , by the way , we

23:45

had our first practice today and , by the

23:47

way , my ass was handed to me in

23:49

every single minute of the practice . Very

23:52

rarely does a kid fall home with that , but

23:55

, by the way , and a lot of these practices

23:57

, their asses were handed to them . But

23:59

it's not information they're sharing with their parents

24:01

. So , honey , how did it go today ? Oh

24:04

, mom and dad , it was great and

24:06

I did a really good job , you know , and I did this and that

24:08

and the other thing , and all of a sudden , now the parent

24:10

is shocked on the weekend when their kid

24:12

is not even getting into the game . And

24:14

now , of course , who's to blame ? Well , I'm to blame , well

24:17

, I might have blamed , because their little darling , who

24:19

clearly was awesome , isn't being

24:21

played , and so it's really

24:23

funny . And so what was really cool is obviously

24:26

being a part

24:29

of an elite university . We have these

24:31

brilliant men and women that

24:33

come lecture to us all the time on

24:36

the sort of people we're dealing with , and so I remember

24:38

this and I'll remember this for the rest of my life . Every

24:41

five years or so , we bring in the eminent

24:43

sociologists to tell us who

24:45

we're recruiting , who we're coaching to help us

24:47

so we don't make any egregious

24:49

errors . And so this guy came

24:51

in in 2012 and he was the eminent sociologist

24:54

on campus and he was a brilliant lecturer

24:56

and , honestly , between you and me right

24:59

now , I can't remember a thing he said , and

25:01

the reason I can't remember a thing he said because the

25:03

first slides he

25:05

showed with all of us I will

25:07

remember for the rest of my life , and

25:10

it was a summary of what he was saying in the lecture

25:12

, and here's what they are . The

25:14

first slide he put on the board had the date

25:16

1969 at the top

25:18

. I'll never forget that date . That's

25:21

the date I graduated from high school

25:23

. That's why I brought in

25:25

from the next room someone that was born , you

25:27

know . A lot later they had to fix this

25:29

computer so I could actually get

25:32

on your podcast because I

25:34

was , you know , graduated high school in 1969

25:36

. So in that slide 1969

25:39

, this kid is coming home from school

25:42

and this kid has all Fs on

25:45

his report card . The parents

25:47

are streaming at the kid . Then

25:50

the next slide shifted to the year

25:52

he was giving the lecture , which was 2012

25:55

. 2012,

25:57

. The kid comes from school

25:59

, all Fs on his report

26:01

card , and now what's happening ? The

26:03

parents are screaming at the teacher . So

26:07

it's been a paradigm shift . So now , of

26:09

course , it's not your fault , honey . This

26:11

teacher obviously doesn't know what they're doing . She's

26:13

not teaching you properly . Obviously

26:16

, if they taught you properly and inspired you , you

26:18

would have an A on this , and now you're certainly

26:20

being undermined by this destructive

26:23

teacher . Now the kid's feeling great

26:25

because , of course , it's a teacher's fault . It's

26:27

not the teacher's fault , it's

26:30

the culture in the home's fault . And

26:33

all of a sudden what they're doing for their poor

26:35

little kid . They've completely

26:37

eliminated standards from this kid's life

26:39

, because whatever the kid does is absolutely

26:41

fine . But the other thing they're undermining

26:43

is they're undermining authority figures for this

26:46

child , and so now anyone

26:48

they collide with for the rest of their lives , the

26:51

kid's gonna assume that this

26:53

person is compromising them . And

26:55

the parent has just turned this

26:57

basically bag of garbage into

27:00

someone that's never gonna succeed in the real world

27:02

. And that's

27:04

on them . So what's my job ? My

27:07

job is to try to convert them into

27:09

people that see the truth now , because

27:11

, guess what , you've got some work

27:13

to do . So if

27:15

I had to summarize what

27:18

we do here , I would put it in those three silos

27:20

. Obviously , we can drill into any

27:22

part of those three that you like .

27:24

Yeah , two follow up questions to that . Specifically

27:26

One I am curious . I mean you're getting the

27:28

most competitive kids on the planet and

27:30

they're still coming in with that entitlement attitude . You

27:32

said it's almost impossible to turn them . How

27:35

often do you actually see someone come

27:37

in that can actually change and develop the humility

27:39

necessary to do whatever it takes

27:41

to get to where they need to go ?

27:44

Well , these are the superstars . Every

27:46

now and again , you'll bring in a kid that , right

27:48

out of the get go , is taking responsibility

27:51

for everything , and obviously

27:53

their combination of factors with that

27:55

one is they're well raised and

27:57

they do respect authority . So when you tell

27:59

them they need to do this , they jump on it immediately

28:02

. They don't whine and complain

28:04

to their parents about it . They're the

28:06

masters of their own universe and

28:09

they don't require any sort of gentle

28:11

hugs from their parents

28:14

to survive . These are kids that are going to make

28:16

it , and so those are the

28:18

kids that can step in and

28:21

, along the way , their parents

28:23

have educated them about

28:25

failure and the value of failure

28:27

and the value of taking responsibility

28:29

for everything , and so we've

28:31

got a whole set of core values that will help them

28:33

go in that direction . In fact

28:35

, let me see if I can find our

28:38

book right here . So

28:43

yeah , so here is . I

28:46

had a class of leaders that was

28:48

really concerned with this

28:50

sort of thing infecting the team , and

28:52

so I'll read this thing to you this

28:55

is our 13th core value , and

28:57

this was and , by the way , my leaders

28:59

dictate whether or not we keep the core

29:01

value , change it , et

29:04

cetera , et cetera . So , in this particular year

29:06

, my leadership council

29:08

, which are made up of basically

29:10

all the juniors and the team . This is in the spring

29:12

, so all the seniors have gone pro , and

29:15

so now the juniors are deciding what we're

29:17

gonna live by . And so the juniors

29:19

got together , so all the juniors are on the

29:21

leadership council one sophomore , one freshman

29:23

and here's what they came up with . Here's

29:25

the way they wanted to live . So

29:27

here's what we constructed together as

29:30

a collection of team leaders and me

29:32

. So it's the

29:35

13th core value . It says accountable

29:38

. This is the biggest challenge for

29:40

the millennials . Now is the period

29:43

to escape the protections of loving parents

29:45

who don't want you to get

29:47

hurt . You have four years to

29:49

get ready for chaos

29:51

of the universe . Mark

29:54

Cohen , an award-winning UNC

29:56

assistant professor of English and

29:58

comparative literature , when asked

30:00

who was the best teacher you ever had

30:02

and why , said this the

30:05

best teacher I've ever had is failure . Samuel

30:08

Beckett said it best Ever tried

30:11

, ever failed , no

30:13

matter . Try again , fail

30:16

again , fail better . And

30:18

here is what every kid memorizes that

30:20

they're being evaluated against by all

30:23

of their peers . So here's

30:25

what they have to recite to me in every player conference

30:27

Some want to be exempt , they

30:30

do not want to excel , they do

30:32

not want to exert , they

30:34

want to be considered excellent for desiring

30:36

to be held exempt from all accountability

30:39

. And that's a quote I stole from

30:41

Beau . Here

30:43

is what we added to it , and this is

30:45

basically a combination of my

30:47

conversations with my leadership

30:49

counsel . So , and what protects

30:51

them from all accountability ? Their own

30:54

narrative that is not interested in

30:56

exploring their potential but is crafted to

30:58

keep them comfortable while recruiting

31:00

every possible excuse along the way

31:02

. So how do we want to live

31:04

? And obviously we , as the UNC Women's Soccer

31:06

Culture To paraphrase Alex

31:08

Ferguson of Banyou fame we want

31:10

to take responsibility for our own actions

31:12

, our own errors , our own performance

31:15

level and , eventually , for every

31:17

result . So this is a

31:19

collection of kids that have decided

31:21

yep , we want to be held accountable

31:23

. And obviously we've got 13

31:25

of these . All anyone needs to do

31:27

is just jump on the internet and

31:30

just type in UNC Women's Soccer Core

31:32

Values and all 13 of

31:34

them will pop up .

31:36

Yeah , so not . I'm a dad of four

31:38

, four kids under seven , two girls , two boys

31:40

. My wife played soccer on

31:43

the preventive side . If you could give an address

31:45

to the nation Specifically addressing

31:48

parents , you know I can at least speak

31:50

for my wife and I . We want to raise accountable kids . We're

31:52

gonna raise kids that you know you'd be proud . That play

31:54

for you . What would your I yeah

31:56

, I'll just leave it open ended what would you tell parents in

31:59

order to raise great kids who are actually prepared for

32:01

the world , versus not ?

32:04

basically To

32:07

allow them to embrace failure . And

32:09

in my opinion , one of the greatest aspects

32:12

of sport is failing

32:14

and coming back , failing

32:17

and coming back again , failing and coming back again

32:19

, because , boy , you develop a certain resilience

32:21

level . That's absolutely remarkable . But also

32:23

, don't have any delusions of grandeur . My

32:26

wife and I joke about this all the time . I've got a

32:28

kid Kid

32:31

. She's in her early 40s now . She

32:35

was , you know , climbing the dance world

32:37

and Of

32:40

course , I deal with these

32:43

parents who , you know , have

32:45

a completely Bizarre

32:47

view of their own children . And

32:50

she's a Dance

32:52

instructor . She taught at Duke

32:54

for 33 years in their dance program

32:57

and then she danced professionally for years before

33:00

she married me and

33:02

started teaching . And so we're

33:04

very , very wary of

33:06

Parents that , you know , I guess

33:08

, give their children false

33:10

praise . So , yeah , if

33:12

our kids did something well , you know we hugged them and

33:14

you know tell them . You know we told them great stuff , but

33:16

we never protected them from failure . And

33:19

one of our favorite moments was actually this

33:22

kid of ours . If you

33:24

type her into a Google search , you'll

33:27

be shocked at what she's achieved . Her name is

33:29

Michelle , michelle

33:31

Doran's . She

33:34

is a rhythm tap dancer . She has

33:36

her own dance company called

33:38

Doran's dance and

33:40

she had just won a Bessie

33:43

. I think a Bessie is a top performer

33:45

in New York and Melissa and I

33:47

obviously are very proud she's won this award

33:49

and she

33:51

was nominated . So we were in the room

33:53

when they were announcing the Bessie award winners and

33:55

, you know , we didn't know that she was gonna win

33:58

this award , but we were invited to be a part

34:00

of this . Of course we're very proud of her that she

34:02

was even included , nominated in this , and

34:04

all of a sudden they announced that she was the

34:06

Bessie award winner and

34:09

my wife and I turned to each other and

34:11

we finally said you know what ? Maybe

34:14

she's pretty good . I

34:17

think what's critical is to

34:20

always make sure when you're

34:22

raising your kids they're feeder on the ground

34:24

and always make sure . And

34:26

you know this is stuff that all of us can learn from

34:28

you know a Carol

34:31

Dweck , I mean . Basically

34:33

, have a growth mindset . Have you know

34:35

? You know talk about potential , talk about the next

34:37

level . Never talk about

34:40

you know you've done enough

34:42

or you've arrived , because

34:44

that's the first day of your

34:46

you going

34:48

backwards . So , yeah

34:52

, I think that's critical for all of us that raised

34:54

children , but also to see if

34:56

we can help them construct a principal center

34:58

, because I think having

35:00

a principal center is gonna help guide your life in

35:02

the most positive way . But taking

35:05

responsibility for everything , because when we

35:07

start to make up excuses for all of our failures

35:09

, holy cow , we're

35:12

gonna basically make sure we will never achieve

35:14

anything . And if you want to achieve everything , take

35:17

responsibility for everything you can

35:19

. And then what you're saying

35:21

is I'm in a position to change where

35:24

I am , and If excuses

35:26

are what protects you from the chaos , the universe

35:28

, you're never gonna go anywhere . Take

35:30

responsibility for everything , even if it's

35:32

not your fault , to

35:35

sort of try to figure out a way to take

35:37

responsibility for all these different elements

35:39

so that you can make a change . And so

35:41

, yeah , that's that's so critical for all of us raising

35:44

our kids .

35:46

So good You've coached

35:48

. You coach the best of the best , you recruit the best of the

35:50

best , and I love the competitive cauldron

35:52

. You've coached 19 different

35:54

players . The national player of the year honors You've been . You

35:57

mentioned people like Cindy Parlow , mia Ham

35:59

, so you you're bringing into the greatest

36:01

. But then there's those who separate themselves . I'm just

36:03

curious when you see the Mia Hams of the world , are

36:05

there specific traits that they had when

36:07

you coach them that you just that do

36:09

allow them to separate themselves from Everyone

36:12

else ? Who is great ?

36:15

First of all , that's a great question . First

36:18

of all , everyone is Different

36:20

, so please don't assume for a second that when

36:22

I start to give you these generalizations that

36:25

you can apply these

36:27

. You know , across the board I

36:29

think we're all wonderfully different . We

36:32

all have to be led differently Because

36:34

we're all different . When I meet with my

36:37

kids , I talk about all these different categories . If

36:40

they want to become extraordinary and these

36:42

are like boxes they have to check and

36:45

I stole this from a

36:47

gentleman that was hired by the NBA and the NFL

36:50

and the Basically all the pro teams

36:52

to sort out whether or not

36:54

to draft this player or that player . And

36:59

he is this guy that

37:01

sets up a psychological profile and he

37:03

goes into the home of someone that you're hoping to draft and

37:08

he has . You take this , this profile and this profile

37:10

. When I started reading about this guy first Was

37:13

to sort out if you had self-discipline

37:15

, competitive fire and self-belief . And this guy had an incredible

37:18

hit rate 85%

37:21

of the time . When he was given

37:24

someone to assess and you followed his advice , he

37:26

was spot on . So he added a 15%

37:28

you know , I Guess

37:32

failure rate , but 85% successful

37:34

. So if you went

37:36

in and you had this guy and you hired

37:38

this guy and you were saying , well , should I , you know

37:40

, draft Michael Jordan ? And

37:42

Michael Jordan fill this profile out , and , sure enough , he came up in

37:44

spades with self-discipline , competitive

37:46

fire and self-belief , and then this guy would

37:49

say , yeah , obviously

37:51

, draft this guy , but there are a lot of people out

37:53

there , even Heisman Trophy winners In

37:56

football , that don't make it in professional football . And

38:00

so , and all of us know , and obviously on draft day , the stories

38:02

are Legend for the people

38:04

that are , you know , drafted first , that don't make it , and

38:06

people that are drafted

38:08

last that make it . Of

38:11

course , what's the greatest story of all time ? It's Tom

38:13

Brady . Tom Brady , yep , tom Brady drafted 199

38:16

. Are you freaking , kidding me ? All

38:18

these guys that were paid a small fortune to assess

38:20

talent Drafted this guy 199th

38:25

. Can we go back and fire that whole you

38:28

know Advisors

38:34

? I mean , are you kidding me ? That guy will retire , the greatest

38:36

football player of all time , and

38:41

he's drafted at 199th . And the reason I'm bringing

38:43

up this story is because it's so difficult to assess Talent

38:45

. So what are the elements that are going

38:47

to stretch you ? What are the elements

38:49

that you're taking to the Promised

38:52

Land ? So I start with those three the

38:55

cauldron your rank in the cauldron

38:57

is your competitive fire ring . You're you're basically

39:00

. Your other ranks can be assessed

39:02

. Other ways in which you can be a

39:04

player Can be assessed other ways

39:07

in the different data collections that we use

39:09

. So self-discipline we basically

39:11

use fitness testing , competitive

39:14

fire we use the cauldron . And

39:16

self-belief is something I will not touch

39:18

. I will never negatively

39:21

touch anyone's self-belief

39:23

. So if a kid thinks they're

39:25

God's gift of the game , I'm never gonna

39:27

say you're not , because you know what

39:30

. If I think you suck and you think

39:32

you're great , it's gonna be shocking

39:34

how often you're gonna

39:36

have your own self-belief

39:39

and get to a completely different

39:41

level because of that self-belief . So

39:43

a kid gets to give her own self-belief grade

39:46

in a player conference with me and I'm never

39:48

gonna touch it Because I've had several

39:50

players that , looking at them , I'm

39:52

thinking you know you are the most ordinary creature

39:55

of all , but your self-belief

39:57

is off the charts . Then it's amazing what you

39:59

can do with this self-belief , wow . And

40:01

so that's something I am never gonna touch . But

40:03

we have other categories we look at . I

40:06

call this the love trilogy . If you want to become

40:08

a lead in soccer , you gotta love the ball . You've

40:11

got a love playing the game and you've got a love

40:13

watching the game , and if those three

40:15

loves aren't a part of your soccer development

40:17

, you're never gonna make it at the highest level . If

40:20

you don't love the ball , you're not gonna spend enough time

40:22

with it to master it . So anyone

40:25

that's watched Tobin Heath play , that

40:27

young lady loved the ball and

40:30

as a result , she had this amazing ball

40:32

mastery that all of us love

40:34

her for . Just because watching her play

40:36

, it's clear she mastered the ball

40:38

. So self-discipline , competitive

40:40

fire , self-belief , love of the

40:42

ball , love of playing the game , love of

40:44

watching the game these are all critical , and

40:46

there's invariably a piece missing , even

40:49

among the elite athletes . What's my job ? My

40:51

job is to take him to the promised land

40:53

. There are other pieces . There's an athletic

40:56

platform that's critical , and sometimes

40:58

this is dictated by your genetics . Can

41:00

you impact on it ? Yes , you can , but not

41:02

to an incredible degree , but that's

41:04

also a factor at an elite level . But

41:07

so is your ability to connect with the people

41:09

around you . Connection is critical

41:11

. How do you connect ? Do

41:14

you connect ? Because if you don't , that's gonna interfere

41:16

. Certainly in a team sport that's

41:20

gonna interfere . And then there are other

41:22

things that make a huge difference in practice

41:24

, but also make a huge difference in you

41:26

elevating your practice , and that's energizing

41:29

. You bring energy to

41:31

practice , are you a positive life force , and

41:34

, though some kids have come to practice and I tell them

41:36

this all the time they bring such joy , my

41:39

gosh . The whole practice is lifted because

41:41

of their joy . In practice , they're energizing

41:43

is at a completely different level . And

41:46

then another absolutely critical piece is

41:48

leadership , and they're

41:50

all kinds of leaders . You

41:52

can certainly lead by example . You

41:55

can lead , you know , by being a chemistry

41:57

leader on the team . You can lead by

42:00

all these different ways . The most important

42:02

leadership quality for me , though , is verbal

42:04

leadership . The biggest challenges

42:06

in women's athletics is verbal

42:09

leadership . They're so afraid

42:11

of what their teammates are gonna think of them

42:13

when they try to lead verbally and

42:15

, as a result , it prevents so many

42:18

of them from being these extroverted

42:20

, aggressive , classic verbal

42:22

leaders , and we've gotta change that in our culture

42:25

when we raise these extraordinary

42:27

young women , because

42:29

, as leaders , they can be

42:31

extraordinary , because one quality

42:34

they have in spades is they are generally

42:36

a lot more compassionate and

42:38

they have other aspects of trust that

42:40

I think can make teams so much better

42:42

, and so this is a piece we have to address

42:45

aggressively , and so , if you look at those

42:47

elements , you have to check

42:49

all those boxes if you wanna get to the promised

42:51

land .

42:53

I'm loving this conversation . I feel like I could do a four hour

42:56

interview with you , but

42:58

we don't have time for that . One thing I wanna follow up on that

43:00

I've heard you allude to a few times is player

43:03

coach conferences or something like

43:05

that . You said they have to recite back to you the core values

43:07

and things like that . What

43:09

does that look like and what does candor look like from

43:12

you as a coach , one on one ?

43:14

Yeah , first of all , as you can tell from

43:16

this conversation , I'm data driven , so

43:19

data is candor and

43:22

basically

43:25

, if and everyone of

43:27

my kids knows it well I'll give you an example of

43:29

this sort of candor . So

43:31

I'm gonna give you a typical first meeting with

43:33

an incoming freshman at the University of North Carolina

43:35

. Of course , they come into these player

43:38

conferences and they're all terrified Because

43:40

, first of all , they have to recite the core values

43:42

, and the only thing man fears worse

43:44

than death is public speaking . And

43:46

so now that you're in front of the coach and they've got to recite

43:49

stuff they've memorized , they're in abject

43:51

terror Because I

43:53

want them to recite it perfectly . And

43:56

so they're coming into the meeting intimidated

43:58

anyway , all right , honestly

44:01

, most of them get through that because they're so terrified

44:04

. They've all memorized the core values . Then

44:07

we get into basically

44:09

the different categories . The first category

44:11

we address is self-discipline , and

44:14

what we have them do is we have them assess

44:17

their own self-discipline Because

44:19

, keep in mind , I'm trying to get their personal

44:21

narrative to the truth . Well

44:23

, how do I know what their personal narrative is

44:25

If I don't ask them what it

44:27

is ? So I

44:29

am asking them and all of these different categories

44:32

to evaluate themselves , cause

44:34

this is a test of whether or not their personal

44:37

narrative is the truth . So

44:39

I say all right , on a five point scale , I

44:41

want you to tell me where your self-discipline is . Is

44:45

it US full

44:48

national team and Olympic team level ? And

44:50

if it is , I want you to give yourself

44:52

a five . If

44:54

you think you're already at a professional level

44:56

in this category , I want you

44:59

to give yourself a 4.5 . If

45:02

you think you are UNC starter

45:04

level already in

45:06

this category , I want you to give yourself

45:08

a 4 . We try

45:10

to play a deep roster . We try to play anywhere

45:12

from 16 to 20 players a game . So

45:15

this next question sort of alludes

45:17

to that . If

45:20

you think that you should play in every

45:22

half , give

45:24

yourself a 3.5 . That's

45:27

a gift that plays in every half . They don't start but

45:30

they get in for 10 to 15 minutes a

45:32

half . If you think you

45:34

should make the travel roster in

45:36

this category , give yourself a 3

45:38

all the way down to . If they want

45:41

to give themselves a zero , fine , but

45:43

of course no one ever gives them self a zero . I'm

45:45

so waiting , I guess , for I'm

45:48

waiting for Jesus Christ to come in and give himself

45:50

a zero and something I want to see what it

45:52

might look like , but anyway , so yeah . So

45:55

now , all right , self-discipline

45:57

. What do you say ? And they're

45:59

thinking this is a freshman . Of

46:02

course the kid wants to start . Now they're thinking

46:04

, all right , what should

46:06

I give myself ? Because , yeah , I don't think

46:08

I'm ready for the Olympic team or the full national

46:10

team yet , no , I don't think I can sign

46:12

a pro contract yet , but I definitely

46:15

want to start . So then the kid says

46:17

four , because

46:19

four is UNC starter level . Then

46:21

I say , okay , what's

46:24

the standard for the beep ? Here at the University

46:27

of North Carolina ? The beep is an aerobic fitness

46:29

test and the kid

46:31

knows what it is because they basically did the

46:33

beep maybe a week or two ago . The

46:38

standard is a 40 on the beep . So

46:41

I'll say well , you're

46:44

giving yourself a four in self-discipline

46:47

and the standard we have for

46:49

the beep is 40

46:51

, what did you get on the beep ? Oh

46:54

well , I got a 28 . I

46:56

said , okay , in self-discipline

46:59

, I'm going to give you a 2.8 . And

47:01

all of a sudden now the dream of starting

47:04

has been absolutely shattered

47:06

. And now she is in an even more

47:08

terror , because now

47:10

she has this huge fear that

47:12

I have a data point for

47:15

every single category and

47:18

now she is absolutely sweating herself . So

47:20

now lying has

47:22

gone out the window for the rest of the player conference

47:24

. Now she's realized that you

47:27

know , lying is just not going to cut it

47:29

with this guy . This is going

47:31

to be incredibly brutal . And then

47:33

we go from one category to the next and

47:36

all of a sudden she's realizing oh

47:38

, I mean , I have to kick everyone's ass in practice

47:40

to establish myself

47:42

as someone high in the competitive cauldron

47:45

. Oh , I've got it . They're

47:47

realizing now that you know mom

47:49

and dad are not around them protecting

47:52

them from the chaos of the universe . Now they're

47:54

seeing failure and they're seeing

47:56

I've got to get to work . And you

47:58

know , it's just , it's a completely different

48:01

experience . And so that's , and

48:03

the conference . Obviously we talk about a lot of other

48:05

things , but you can see the sort

48:08

of what I'm trying to do for them .

48:10

And just real quick how often do you do that with

48:12

players ? You mentioned freshmen , but is that

48:14

once a year ? Is that every month , every week ?

48:17

These things take about an hour , sometimes

48:20

an hour and a half . So I meet

48:22

with them once a fall , once

48:25

in January and once

48:27

just before they leave to go home in the summer

48:29

. So three times a year . And

48:32

then I've got a staff member sitting in the

48:34

player conference with me and this guy's

48:36

taking notes down . Then they get a very elaborate

48:39

goal setting letter . That's

48:41

a follow up to this

48:44

goal setting meeting , because then at the

48:46

end of it we're doing goal setting . So

48:48

what are your three greatest strengths ? What

48:51

three things do you need to work on ? And

48:53

then we talk about where they can lead

48:56

, because we want everyone on the team to be some kind of

48:58

leader and it's just

49:00

a very in-depth , basically

49:04

performance review , if you will . But

49:06

, by the way , what's really good

49:08

about the way this is structured is

49:10

I'm always telling them there's another

49:13

level in them and I'm also always

49:15

telling them what they can do to

49:17

change their place . So

49:19

, assuming they're not starting a part of the conversation

49:22

is right . Here's how you start , because

49:24

they're all interested in that information . Here's

49:26

how you make the travel team . Here's how you get

49:28

rotated into each game and

49:30

the biggest issues most kids have coming in

49:32

that are elite players coming in , because every kid we

49:34

recruit is an elite player . But

49:37

even a lot of the elite players don't head , don't

49:40

defend , and so they realize

49:42

that I expect them to be complete as

49:45

fast as possible , as certainly if they want to

49:47

play .

49:49

Yeah , oh , and so we're out of time

49:51

. Unfortunately , as I mentioned , I can go for hours . Hopefully

49:53

we can do this again . I have so many more questions

49:55

, but thank you for all the lives that you've changed

49:57

through your leadership . I know you've impacted the

49:59

world in a great way , and a lot of women's lives specifically

50:02

. So thank you again and hopefully

50:04

we'll do it again .

50:05

I certainly have no issue doing it again

50:08

with you , and I thoroughly enjoyed the conversation

50:10

, so good luck to you .

50:12

Hey , thank you Take care . Well

50:14

, leader , thank you so much for listening to my conversation

50:16

with Anson . I hope that you enjoyed it as much as I

50:18

did . You can find ways to connect with him

50:20

and links to everything that we discussed in the show

50:22

notes at L3leadershiporg , slash

50:24

394 . And , as always , leader

50:26

, I want to challenge you that if you want to attend extra growth this

50:28

year , next year , then you need to either launch or join

50:31

an L3 leadership mastermind group . Mastermind

50:33

groups are simply groups of six to 12 leaders that

50:35

meet together on a consistent basis for at least

50:37

one year in order to help each other grow , hold

50:40

each other accountable and to do life together . For

50:42

me personally , mastermind groups have been the greatest source

50:44

of growth in my life over the last eight years , and

50:46

I truly do believe that every person needs

50:49

to be in a mastermind group . So if you're interested

50:51

in learning more about launching or joining a group

50:53

, go to L3leadershiporg slash

50:55

masterminds or email me at dugsmith at

50:57

L3leadershiporg . And

51:00

, as always , I like to end every episode of the quote , and today

51:02

I will quote Anson Durrance himself , and

51:04

he said this . He said competition is key

51:07

to developing players . The

51:09

only practice environment in which you truly

51:11

develop a player is a competitive

51:13

arena and I love that . I

51:15

just love , love , love this interview . I hope you enjoyed

51:18

as much as I did . Well , leader , know that Laura

51:20

and I , my wife Laura and I love you . We

51:22

believe in you and I say it every episode . But don't

51:24

quit , keep leading . The world

51:26

desperately needs your leadership . I'll

51:28

talk to you next episode .