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Hi

0:35

there. You're listening to the lazy genius podcast.

0:37

I'm Kendra and I'm here to help you be a genius about the things that matter and lazy about the things that don't, today's a very special bonus episode, a conversation with Dr.

0:48

Hillary McBride.

0:49

You might be familiar with Hillary from her time as one of the hosts of the liturgy podcast or from her own podcast, other people's problems.

0:58

But she has written a book that I think is essential reading for being a human it's called the wisdom of your body.

1:05

And it is a transformative kind empowering message about what it means to live in your body.

1:13

In this episode, Hillary talks about why our bodies, aren't what we look like, how to engage with our bodies in healing ways and what it means to exist with pain and tension and let it make us more of who we are.

1:30

Also. Her voice is it's like honey butter.

1:33

She's just the best. So please enjoy this bonus episode with Dr.

1:38

Hillary McBride.

1:40

Hello Hillary.

1:41

Hello, Kendra.

1:44

Oh my goodness. So good to be with you.

1:47

So fun when interviews start, like we haven't been talking for 10.

1:51

No, that's already, but that was off the record stuff.

1:55

Yes, it was all of the, I was going to say the juicy stuff, but I don't want anyone to feel like they're missing out.

2:02

It was the boring stuff.

2:03

Nothing important happened.

2:05

We saved all the good stuff for this interview.

2:06

Indeed, we did. I did a survey recently and asked people like who they follow.

2:11

There are not as many people who know who you are In

2:14

this. Great. And I'm so Because

2:17

you guys, Hillary is the best. So would you just tell us a little bit about who you are in your Well,

2:22

I have to say that my plan for my life, which is to create public work, but remain unknown is going well.

2:30

So I don't know that this is how the publishers like to, you know, kind of work with an author, but I would love to write books and then disappear, disappear completely.

2:41

So

2:41

I

2:41

I'm

2:41

going

2:41

to

2:41

have

2:41

to

2:41

grieve

2:41

being

2:41

introduced

2:41

to

2:41

your

2:41

audience

2:41

because

2:41

it

2:41

will,

2:41

I'm

2:41

just

2:49

joking. No, this is wonderful. I can't wait to meet all of you and be introduced to you into your lives, through the sound ways of this interview.

2:56

I'm a registered psychologist, which means that I do a bunch of things.

3:00

I, I do therapy.

3:01

I teach, I research.

3:03

I write, but really, I think the reason I'm a psychologist, because I'm really interested in being a person I'm interested in people.

3:09

I'm so curious about what it means to be human.

3:12

And I'm on this quest, I think like many of us to figure out how do we do this?

3:17

How do we do this?

3:20

And what are the points where it goes wrong?

3:23

And what can we do about that and how come there.

3:26

Isn't very much to tell us how to stay with what's good and be with that and really kind of hone in on the wonderful, beautiful parts of being human in a way that helps resource us when, when things are hard.

3:37

So I am, I am human.

3:39

I am interested in being human.

3:41

I'm interested in your experience of being human and in particular, this really vital slice to that, which is how we are in bodies as human.

3:51

We are not just these astral projections or cloud bubbles, or thought bubbles that float above bodies.

3:58

But we have flesh.

4:00

We have joints and longings and aches and illness and vibrancy and joy.

4:06

And we want to fist pump in the air when things are going well and dance at weddings.

4:11

And that is somehow really important to being human.

4:14

So that's a big part of the slice of My

4:16

work. Did you know that one of the main titles that I pitched the Lacy genius way to be was how to be a person?

4:22

Oh, brilliant.

4:23

Cause it's like, none of us know how to do that.

4:27

No.

4:28

And Tara, Kendra, no Turn.

4:30

A lot of people who were, so we're also maybe desperate.

4:35

Isn't the right word. Perhaps in certain seasons were desperate for it, but it feels like it's the most basic thing.

4:41

Like just how to be a person in the world.

4:44

And yet it's so deeply complicated in many ways.

4:48

And one of the things that I really love about, like you said, this particular slice of your work in talking about the body and embodiment, is it, is, would you agree a misunderstood understanding?

5:03

We have, we have like a pretty wildly flawed perspective on our own bodies.

5:09

And I learned a lot of that just from your work that you put into the world and then disappear from like just on Instagram and stuff, but in your, in your book, the wisdom of your body, which is so beautiful and helpful and kind and smart.

5:26

And all of these words, one of the things that I personally was like, oh, yeah, was that our body is not only about appearance, which is so basic to say out loud, I'm like, well, of course it's not.

5:43

And yet it's the first thing.

5:46

And often the only thing we think about, yeah.

5:48

So when I was reading your book, you gave a metaphor for what it means to live in your body and then to live where you're only thinking about the appearance of your body.

5:58

And it was about you called it living on the front lawn.

6:01

And I would love for you to just sort of explain to us perhaps using that metaphor, why the body is not just about.

6:12

Sure. So you imagine your body to be a home, a home that you have lived in your whole life that belongs to you, is yours to decorate and experience and kind of celebrate and also have celebration in, when we think about what we do in our homes, we have parties and we, you know, we also cry on the couch with our best friend because something is really hard for us.

6:34

It's all of this, you know, the highs and the lows are anchored around this particular point, this home.

6:40

And if we think about our body as a home, for many of us, we were born into this home, but we learned, we learned to leave.

6:49

We were wooed out of it to live on the front lawn, to live our lives, really on the sidewalk, looking at the house.

6:55

And so when we can stretch the metaphor, as far as we want really to say, we start to look at other people's houses and we go, oh, you know, they've got really great decor on the trim and oh, but you know, my, you know, my house is creaking.

7:08

And maybe if I just tweak these things and it could look like my neighbors and we really move into a position of objectifying our bodies, we leave the inner felt experience of being a body to see appearance of our body as the main way of orienting towards ourselves in the world or orienting towards our body.

7:32

And so when I say to people, and this is kind of like a punchline of my book, really like you are your body and anything, or anyone that has convinced you otherwise is wrong, but maybe trying to help you.

7:48

But as it's wrong, it's not, not true information.

7:51

When I say that to people, there is for many people in inflammatory response because we have thought of our bodies as our appearance.

8:01

So when I say you are your body, what people hear is you are how you look.

8:05

And for many people who have been trying to circumnavigate how they look, or in particular, the conflict they have internally about how they look or the shame about that being told you are, your body feels deeply painful.

8:20

And maybe like it traps them into an appearance that they are in conflict with.

8:26

But what I'm actually trying to adjust and saying that you are your body is that you are more than what the house looks like on the outside.

8:34

In fact, from most of us, we don't even really see the outside of our house except for a few moments a day when we're coming or going.

8:42

And maybe we go, oh, that's how I know that it's my house.

8:46

Like when we're driving up the street, we know to turn into the driveway because we see all the signs.

8:50

It it's identified because of its visual markers as being ours.

8:55

But it's kind of, it's the inside that is meant to house our existence.

9:02

So coming back onto the inside one is actually a way to create safety for ourselves.

9:13

It's a way to feel like we have shelter in a world where there is, you know, storms and like night and day.

9:21

And we really want privacy really to think about moving back into our home as a way to protect ourselves and create an environment within ourselves worth living in, but two.

9:32

And here's what I find really interesting.

9:33

The research on embodiment, or coming back into yourself as a body, we might say, if we're using this metaphor, living inside your house, again is actually a way to inoculate us against bad body image.

9:46

So if we have shame about how we look, if we have struggled with our appearance, instead of trying to just change how we look or change, how we feel about how we look moving inside the house, moving back into our bodies is actually a way for us to remember that there is so much more to us so much more to our bodies than just how we look in a way that actually is shown empirically to protect us against the stories that are lobbied against us and our body image or whatever our neighbors doing with the, you know, kind of the outside of their house.

10:24

So to speak. What would you say to people who have been living on the front lawn for so long that they don't even really know how to go inside the house anymore?

10:37

Right? Like, is there a th th cause this is a, this is an audience that really loves like checklists and formulas by default.

10:46

And we are all learning together to start small and to be kind, and that process and that a lot of things can not be systemized can not be mechanized.

10:55

So

10:55

is

10:55

there

10:55

a

10:55

practical,

10:55

small

10:55

first

10:55

step

10:55

that

10:55

anyone

10:55

who's

10:55

listening

10:55

can

10:55

take,

10:55

if

10:55

they're

10:55

like,

10:55

oh,

10:55

what

10:55

you're

11:06

saying? That sort of makes sense.

11:08

That's a new thought for me, I'm definitely on the front lawn.

11:11

I can't even find the door anymore.

11:13

Right. What did they, what did they hit?

11:16

I love it.

11:19

Okay. So the first thing is, and I I'm imagining that this will land for some people and not for others.

11:26

The reason we leave our bodies is not because our bodies were ever bad, but we weren't told how to stay in our bodies in a safe, connected, attuned way where it wouldn't overwhelm us.

11:37

And sometimes when we've had experiences that were otherwise overwhelming, those showed up in a physiological way.

11:43

It was loud. There was so much sensation, there was terror, there was overwhelm.

11:48

And so we learned that our body is unsafe any kind of an unsafe place to be in.

11:54

So it's very important to recognize that there for many of us are very good reasons why we left the inside of the house because it was violent and intense in there.

12:04

And we learned to live on the front line because although exposed to the elements and reductive of our, the complexity of being human at times, might've been safer.

12:14

So I want to suggest to the, as we approximate living inside the house, again, that we do.

12:21

So in a really gentle, slow kind of compassionate, curious, thoughtful way, not busting down the front door, not shaming ourselves for like kind of circling the perimeter, but really giving ourselves time to go up and just put our hands on the shingles.

12:39

So to speak.

12:41

That's, that's the house and I'm closer.

12:44

And maybe I don't have as many raindrops fall on me as I, you know, shimmy up against the side of this house.

12:49

So what that looks like practically is can we, can we start to get closer, even if it's a very small way and what that might mean is maybe we put our hands on our bodies.

13:01

Oh yeah, this, this is my home.

13:06

And maybe it just starts by gently, you know, touching our own belly or putting our hands on our chest or holding our hands together, just making contact with ourselves in a way that is kind and gentle and reminds us to slow down and sense.

13:24

So that's one piece of it.

13:26

Another thought that I have, if we're trying to kind of operationalize, this is you're probably going to want to go into a house.

13:35

If you also know that there's good things in there, not just all the reasons that you left.

13:39

So what are the reasons why we go into the house?

13:41

And

13:41

this

13:41

is

13:41

my

13:41

list,

13:41

but

13:41

I

13:41

encourage

13:41

people

13:41

to

13:41

make

13:41

their

13:41

own

13:41

joy

13:41

by

13:41

tality

13:41

connection,

13:41

presence,

13:41

pleasure,

13:41

sensuality,

13:41

maybe

13:41

even

13:41

a

13:41

sense

13:41

of

13:41

fullness,

13:41

ultimately

13:41

connecting

13:41

to

13:41

intuition

13:41

and

13:41

wisdom,

13:41

being

13:41

able

13:41

to

13:41

care

13:41

for

13:41

ourselves

14:01

better. So maybe making a list, because even though that's still an intellectual exercise, we know like Frankel, Nicha have said this, you know, in so many different places, when there is a Y we can get through anyhow, when we have the reason to go towards ourselves as a body, it will make it so much easier.

14:22

What we find inside feels a little foreign or unfamiliar or it's uncomfortable.

14:25

And then I think maybe the next next option would be put your, put your ear up against the front door.

14:34

And you might hear that there's music playing inside.

14:37

You might hear that there is a dance that you were being invited into.

14:42

And maybe the, kind of, again, the practical application of that is starting to notice, like, do I have hunger fullness cues?

14:50

Am I do I, do I want to go to bed?

14:53

Is there something inside of me that wants to move right now?

14:55

Can I listen to that? And even if I don't know how to do something about it, because I'm, you know, really in this highly structured way of existing where I, you know, eat at certain times, or I go to bed later than I should, because I need to stay up and do all the things like maybe we can't actually engage, but we can start listening and we can start paying attention to the information to decide later what to do with it.

15:20

One of the things I've learned from, from your work is to pay attention to the information that my body is trying to tell me.

15:27

And as early as yesterday, I was feeling incredibly overwhelmed by a personal situation.

15:37

And I didn't know where to begin.

15:41

You know, we all have those, those situations that are last, where we're like, this is so complicated.

15:47

This is so complex. I don't even know how I feel about this.

15:50

And whenever we feel some sort of rise or swell within us, that actually does feel, we feel it physically, somehow that my tendency for 40 years has been to push that down.

16:10

Right. Because you don't know what's going to happen if you let that swell continue.

16:14

Right. And so I have learned from you that paying attention to that is a, it's a cue.

16:24

It's an information, it's information, it's your body saying, Hey, this matters.

16:27

Let's pay attention to this.

16:29

And so yesterday I spent some time because I'm a verbal processor, but I didn't really have anyone in that moment to actually verbally process it with, I'm not even kidding.

16:40

You have a baby and you live in another country across like the continent.

16:44

And I was like, should I call Hillary Hillary until I really did?

16:49

Because I needed to verbally process it.

16:52

But at the same time, sometimes I use verbal processing as an excuse to not sit with myself and difficult things.

17:00

And so I pulled out a, I pulled out a notebook and I just started to write process with pen and paper and process, whatever was coming out.

17:08

And I know I tried to pay attention to when my body had a sensation that was approaching that overwhelm.

17:19

Right. That felt like, and I, it feels like, and it's the same feeling every time, every single time, you know, it's like, it feels like there's a dull, like a blunt saw, like in the middle of my chest.

17:32

And then someone is like pushing out my eyeballs from behind.

17:37

And so, as I was processing, there were certain things that I wrote that did not elicit that feeling.

17:45

Ah, and then th that I kind of expected, like, it was interesting.

17:49

And then I even wrote, I even wrote in my notes, oh, Sinai's there it is.

17:54

There's the saunas. Like I actually kept writing saw.

17:56

And I's incredible.

17:58

It was really funny, but it helped me actually zone in on the real, maybe not real, that's not the right word, but the, the foundational fears of the situation.

18:11

Right. Because all that I was experiencing was real, but it all was kind of holding equal urgency and my processing.

18:18

That's why it felt so overwhelming because I didn't know which thread DePaul.

18:22

Right. And as I was sitting there and listening to what my body was telling me, I was able to name these two significant pieces of this very elaborate puzzle that were the deeper fears of the situation and work through those and sit with those and allow them to kind of like crest, you know, and go, oh, okay.

18:45

We're and, and to tell myself, Hey, we're okay.

18:48

You're doing okay.

18:49

And so, anyway, all that to say, I would not have been able to do that with, without you, but going back to what you were saying, like putting your hands, when you said, go up and put your hands on the shingles, put your ear against the door.

19:02

I think for people who have been on the front lawn for so long, that even that invitation feels really metaphorically foreign.

19:12

It's like, I don't even know what that means.

19:14

And so just as a wanting to share that as a practical example of when you said hunger cues and sleep cues, and just paying attention to the literal physical sensations that are happening, you even said in your book.

19:28

And I thought it was, it was so profound.

19:29

You were talking about hunger, and you said, how would you describe how your hunger feels?

19:34

How would you tell someone who didn't know what hunger was, what it feels like?

19:39

And I was like, that's the wisest thing I've ever heard, which is interesting, because what that does actually is it tells us that there is an intuition to that.

19:51

There is an intuitiveness to recognizing what hunger is.

19:56

Right. Don't know how to say it, but we know what it feels like.

19:59

So can even that kind of thing, like putting words to how you feel when you're hungry, putting words to what you're you experienced in your body, when you put your hand on your chest, like, that's sort of the practical to me that sort of the practical representation of putting your arrogance, the door.

20:18

Yeah. And the subtext of what you're saying here too, is that emotion is a physiological process.

20:22

Whereas for many of us, we've learned to believe that emotion is the label, the cognitive label we put on, it's the word, it's how we identify it.

20:31

It's still kind of happening cerebrally up and kind of up in our mind.

20:34

And yet we're missing all of the stuff that tells us that that's the label that fits or for hunger, for example, right.

20:42

We're missing. How do we know what hunger feels like?

20:46

Even though many of us are good at labeling, I'm hungry, we're missing all of that information.

20:50

And being able to sink into our skin in a way that allows us to, to feel from the inside out yields.

21:00

So much information, because these emotions, they come with sensation patterns that have like motivational tendencies.

21:07

So emotion is meant to compel us to go towards something or away from something.

21:13

Or it's meant to tell us, stop, pay attention, get more information.

21:17

But if we aren't, if we aren't connecting to what's actually happening our body, then we're missing how all of that is interwoven with safety, our wisdom, and ultimately who we are, how we know ourselves, because while there is some, some universality and emotion like you and I have both felt fear.

21:37

The things that we feel fear about are different based on our lived experience.

21:42

And so when we know emotion, it actually takes us towards ourselves.

21:46

It takes us towards what is it that we need to stay safe?

21:50

What is it we need in order to thrive and flourish?

21:53

How do we connect?

21:54

What has hurt us before?

21:55

What do we want?

21:56

But being unable to be with those feelings leaves us in a way, fragmented from ourselves.

22:03

So dropping out of our heads to feel those sensations in our body.

22:09

I mean, gosh, your description and the viscerality of that is it's poignant.

22:15

And I think a really good example of how many of us maybe feel like our inner experience is foreign to us and how we need, we need to actually get kind of technical about it.

22:28

What is that sensation? What does it feel like?

22:30

What do I like in it too?

22:32

And what does it tell me about what parts in my story need to be paid attention to?

22:37

Because for me, emotion feels like, like the bolding of a text or like a highlighter.

22:42

It doesn't necessarily tell me like, if I should do that, very thing, follow that impulse.

22:49

But it tells me pay attention to that impulse because it tells you something about you We'll

22:56

be right back.

22:59

This episode is sponsored by Squarespace.

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26:03

I was gonna say something else to try to drive that home better.

26:08

And then you said, it's like it bolds the text. And I was like, oh, that's way better than I was going to say, that's exactly what it is because it's not, it's not directive in, in the, in an actionable way.

26:18

It is simply like it's an arrow paying attention.

26:21

It's like, Hey, look at this, just look at that.

26:23

And when we, and it takes practice, I think that's really important to, to just, to be really gentle in that process of you might not have this profound moment, the first time that you start to try to listen to your body and all these different things.

26:40

Like it's, it's, it's like a relationship like you used the word fragmented.

26:47

Yeah. That we're kind of trying to re rebuild that.

26:49

So anyway, that was, that was so good.

26:51

There was something else that you, another metaphor that you had in your book that I thought was so helpful, especially for this audience.

27:01

And it is a concept that you call the second arrow and I would just love for it.

27:06

You would say it a lot better than a lot better than I will, but I will.

27:10

I did pull out your book and ha ha. It's like highlighted so aggressively.

27:14

It's really funny.

27:17

And I kept changing my pen.

27:19

And so it looks like someone who was not really in every room of my house, I just grabbed whatever.

27:28

Right. But You, you were talking about how the F the first arrow is you say, we get an injury, we get sick, we face a loss, we struggle with a disease.

27:40

And that is the first arrow.

27:42

In some ways, it's something that is done to us out Of

27:45

our control, right. Something that happens.

27:48

Yes. And then you say, but we are the ones who shoot the second arrow.

27:53

The second arrow is shot when we add to our own pain and suffering by how we talk to ourselves and others about what is happening with us.

28:03

So can you, I feel like that is, I think a lot of people listening to just went, oh man, right at that, I have a quiver of second to arrows, right?

28:13

The third and fourth and fifth.

28:17

Yes. I'll start by saying, this is not something that I made up.

28:19

This is a Buddhist principle.

28:21

And so it's something that you can read lots about and find other places.

28:25

If you want to dig into it more, this is not something that I have, you know, TMD.

28:31

It is. It's so important to recognize that there is a normative degree of pain in our existence of being human.

28:37

And that that's not actually something that we need to escape from, or be rescued from.

28:43

Although many of us have not learned or been supported about in how to, how to be with the pain of being human.

28:50

So when the pain of viewing human presents itself, you know, someone, we love dies when there's an illness.

28:56

When we get a cancer diagnosis, when there's an injury, when you lose your job, when you, I mean, it could be any number of things, your kid gets sick.

29:05

You there's a natural disaster.

29:07

I mean, a pandemic. Let's just throw that in the mix here.

29:11

And we have these things happen in our life as a means of at times, feeling responsible for them and trying to really shame our way into change, shame our way, or criticize our way out of our suffering to give ourselves the illusion that we have more power than we do.

29:31

We beat ourselves up. We bring in another element to kind of hopefully create enough pressure that it helps us get away from the suffering we had as if we're responsible for it.

29:43

So the thing that happens is the first arrow is you identified, but how we respond to ourselves about it is the second arrow.

29:49

So if somebody just say, if I wake up and I'm in pain, my body is in pain because of something I did or I'm sick or whatnot, shaming ourselves, adding to the injury by shooting ourselves again, that's the secondary.

30:05

And that's something that we're responsible for.

30:07

We can't necessarily always change what happens with the first arrow, but the second arrow is something that we can be responsible for.

30:14

And many of us have learned, like I said, to respond to our pain in a way that adds more pain to it.

30:21

It's like, we, we don't know how to turn compassion towards ourselves because maybe on some level we think, you know, then I'm going to be lazy, right.

30:31

Or then I'm going to be ineffective or then more horrible things are going to happen.

30:35

But if I, you know, really up the ante and squeeze myself and add more criticism and shame, then I can stop the pandemic from happening or, you know, change the diagnosis, or like, bring that loved one back.

30:49

Like it's, it's the second arrow has a function for us, but it's ineffective and kind of adds to our suffering.

30:57

So what we want to try to do is recognize that there are hurts that happen, but instead of adding more pain to them, we come to those hurts with kindness, with tenderness, with nurturance, as a way of supporting ourselves through them as a way of healing and helping ourselves be kind.

31:17

And it's, I think this, like, I'm kind of alluding to it with my last statement there, but it's really genuinely hard to be deeply compassionate with other people in their suffering.

31:28

If we can't also do that for ourselves, there tends to be this parallel process between kind of what we feel ourselves with or how we talk to ourselves and what we ultimately believe about other people in their pain too.

31:40

And so I think that when we turn towards our own suffering with kindness and compassion and curiosity, what we're doing is we're building the foundation for a more just and loving world that it is not just about us healing ourselves, but ultimately telling a new story about being human and offering, creating a well of kindness inside of ourselves, that we can then spill out into other people when we see their suffering to That

32:08

is like the entire that's the, that's the more concise version of the whole 13th chapter of my book, the lazy genius way, because that's the final principle is to be kind to yourself.

32:20

And, and I, I didn't realize how much I personally, for so long had been hamstringing my ability to be with people in their hurt and without judgment without trying to fix it, because I was always judging my own staff.

32:39

I was always trying to fix my own problems like it is it's, it's a, it's almost like a muscle that we develop.

32:47

And it's such a strange thing that we all so much want to connect with other people.

32:53

We want to be there for the people that we love.

32:56

And it is hard to sit with people in difficult situations.

32:59

It is.

33:01

And at the same time we're using this, this muscle that we desire to have, but it is so deeply atrophy because we never use it on ourselves.

33:11

And then we're like, this is uncomfortable. This is uncomfortable.

33:13

I think it was to do, and we start to panic. And then we say things that we all say the wrong things.

33:18

We all say things that we have to apologize for later.

33:22

But we, I know for me, I felt like I was consistently saying the wrong thing out of protection for myself, because I didn't know how to be with people when things were hard, because I didn't know how to be with myself when things were hard.

33:34

And so I just, I really love the simplicity of self-compassion and being kind to yourself.

33:44

And that can happen in kind of slow drips in less consequential ways.

33:51

You know, not sitting with a friend or a family member who just had a cancer diagnosis, but maybe when you like me pull up to a three-way stop at a busy target shopping center and you yell at someone because they don't know how to use the three-way stop.

34:06

And then to go, okay, like to take a deep breath and go, they're a person, I'm a person.

34:12

This does not matter as much.

34:14

Like, you know, whatever it is the other day, this is my kids know how much I hate this through.

34:19

I stopped because the other day, my ten-year-old, he said, mom, do you wanna go around the back way so that you can skip the three?

34:26

And I was like, bless you, my sweet bed.

34:29

I was like, you're so smart, buddy. Let's do that.

34:31

Let's not even put mommy in a position where she's going to have an exercise.

34:36

Self-compassion for making a bad call.

34:39

That reminds We have that parable. Like, you know, I walked down the street, I fell in the hole.

34:42

I walked on the street, I fell in the hole. I walked down the street, I see the hole.

34:45

I fall in the hole. I walked down the street. I see, I try to walk around.

34:48

If I walked down another street, Just

34:53

pick a different street, but that we can actually pick different streets kindly that are simpler.

35:02

And like I said, less consequential, like, you don't have dinner.

35:05

You don't know what dinner is going to be at five 30.

35:08

Yeah. Like, don't beat yourself up about that.

35:10

Right. Just pull out hot dogs. It's going to be okay.

35:12

You know, like it's, it's, it's that.

35:14

And the more that you practice that kindness in those smaller spaces, the less foreign it feels when you're in the more complicated ones.

35:24

Let's flip this on its head too. And think about if what's what's happening internally is spilling out.

35:30

Then it gives us a kind of a legend, like, I think of a legend on a map to understand why some of the people who heard us treat us the way that they do, because they're also showing us what it's like internally for them.

35:45

So if somebody is really, really crucial for us, and they're the one yelling at us at three-way Stop

35:50

at dark, Then

35:53

we can look at that and we can easily go ouch, like, oh, that's about me or say, oh, I wonder if that's how they talk to themselves inside too.

36:03

Like, oh, I think that they're just showing me that inside.

36:06

Hasn't always been a safe place for them to be too.

36:09

And then when we kind of have in this kind of psychedelic way, the spin-out where we see those people, you know, connected to the people who raised them and the people who raised them and the people who raised them.

36:19

We see, oh, this person who's yelling at us at, you know, in the grocery store or, you know, is being cruel to us on Twitter or whatever.

36:29

The thing is like, oh, they're doing the thing that was done to them.

36:34

Oh. And all of a sudden it's easier to engender compassion.

36:37

Like, no wonder they're treating me this way, because this is the way they were treated.

36:41

And they didn't deserve that. And no, it's not my responsibility to fix them, but I can see that.

36:48

I don't have to add here. It is the second arrow to this situation.

36:53

I can add compassion to them.

36:54

And to me, because this is just one of those things where hurt is playing out in life and not necessarily, you know, a proof of my badness that here's this person who is interacting with me because it's the only way that they know how, but I don't have to beat myself up about it.

37:13

You're so smart.

37:15

Oh,

37:15

I

37:15

love

37:17

that. You're like, wait, what?

37:22

Oh, you're so good at words.

37:23

And making things make sense. Oh, I feel like You

37:26

were really, really doing the heavy lifting today.

37:28

I was like, oh, you said it, you said that There

37:32

was actually, we'll see, I don't need a second error myself.

37:34

At one point I did kind of, when I was saying words and I was like, I love that.

37:38

I'm trying to carry on a conversation with this doctor with this amazing therapist.

37:44

Like, I know what I'm talking about. And then I was like, you know what?

37:46

It's okay. I've had lived it.

37:48

I've I've had good experiences. I am, I have been told it was a very healing moment.

37:53

Actually. I had a therapist, Andi Colver, who was on the show last year.

37:57

And she said that my work was trauma informed.

38:01

And I was like, oh my gosh.

38:03

Like that was such a truly healing redemptive thing for her to say.

38:09

And so, anyway, so that was one of the things that just had to stop.

38:12

Like, no, no, no, you can, you can have, you can have this conversation.

38:16

Oh, go have to send a second arrow For

38:22

me to learn from you. And there's something as, you know, writing a book and putting it out into the world when people interact with it and like kind of launch it back to you in a way you see things that you didn't see even as you writing it.

38:35

And so I want to say, not only are you allowed to have this conversation, thank you for teaching me.

38:40

Thank you for teaching me about this work about what matters about it, about how it lands for you about the areas that I can expand on.

38:46

Even more. I feel grateful for, for how I've learned from you in this conversation.

38:53

It's very, very kind.

38:55

So you guys, Hillary is living in a cave.

38:59

She will not talk to any of us again and read her book, but the book is called the wisdom of your body by Dr.

39:09

Hillary McBride.

39:11

And it really is one of those slow digestible.

39:17

Like you're going to want to take your time with it. Like I was finding myself slipping through and then stopped zipping.

39:23

Cause I was like, no, no, no, no, I don't want to zip here. I want to sit with this.

39:26

It's there's just so much help in there that feel your metaphors are so good.

39:32

I wrote, I've just made a list of many of them.

39:35

And they're just recently like defenses or like winter coats.

39:38

Thoughts are like blossoms on a flower.

39:40

Like they were all of the, the front lawn one, there, all these things that just help, help this sort of large often overwhelming concept of self-awareness and therapy.

39:54

And when people say the phrase doing the work, you know that if you've never done that kind of work, it's hard to know where to begin and it can feel very academic.

40:05

It can feel very overwhelming.

40:07

It can feel almost in many ways, very disembodied because it's just information given to you.

40:13

And so I just love how human you've made this book with, with the use of metaphor, with just your own personal stories, which are really beautifully written and very vulnerably shared.

40:24

And so it's just a delightful tool, everyone, this book.

40:31

So, gosh, thank You so much. The wisdom of your body, finding healing, wholeness and connection through embodied living.

40:38

Thanks, Sandra, thank you for your kindness.

40:40

And I think, I mean, you captured really what I want is, is not for this to be another intellectual exercise, another book to kind of amass knowledge that stays in our already overly saturated brains.

40:55

And I want it to be an invitation to come home to yourself.

40:59

I want it to be an invitation for us all to be reinhabiting our bodies in a way that allows us to be safe with ourselves, gentle and loving towards the people around us, connected to the earth, ultimately moving into a position or a space in our lives where we are flourishing because we are more whole than when we started.

41:22

And that doesn't necessarily happen by memorizing some things that happen in a book.

41:27

So I really hope that whoever you are, as you're listening to this, when the book finds its way to you, that you do read it slowly and you listen kind of like Kendra was doing with her journaling exercise.

41:38

You notice what happens in your body as you're reading.

41:41

And you think of that as really good information that you can get used to get to know yourself better instead of just a way to no, my ideas more.

41:51

I want for you to be returned to yourself.

41:57

Thank you so much for listening to my conversation with Hilary and I highly highly encourage you to get her book, the wisdom of your body.

42:06

It is something I will return to again and again, as I learn more about what it means to live in my body as I am in a way that's whole and expansive and living in the house, not just in the front yard, if you would like to dig even more into this topic about your, your body, its appearance, its existence.

42:24

A few other episodes we met when I listened to our episodes two 17 and two 18, a two-part episode series called let's talk about your body episode 1 57 called what does it mean to take care of yourself and episode two 30?

42:38

How to feel like a person with Andi Kolber, which was another conversation with another therapist, focused on our relationship with stress.

42:46

All of those are great episodes. If you want to go a little deeper in your earbuds, but please check out Hillary's book the wisdom of your body.

42:54

If you enjoy this podcast and you have never left a review on apple podcasts, would you consider doing that reviews as you know, help new listeners discover the show?

43:03

That the biggest thing, the biggest thing that you also often do is share these episodes with your real life people.

43:09

I see a lot of you share episodes on your socials, which I deeply appreciate it is amazing.

43:12

Please, thank you for doing that and continue to do that.

43:15

But also I get so many DMS that say something like my friend has been telling me about your podcast for weeks.

43:20

And I finally started listening and I'm loving it.

43:23

A lot of you are that friend, hounding your other friends to listen to the show or read the book or whatever.

43:28

And I am just immensely grateful. So thank you for that.

43:31

All right, until next time be a genius about the things that matter and lazy about the things that don't I'm Kendra we'll see on Monday, This episode is sponsored by TurboTax. Unusual circumstances mean complicated taxes. But for TurboTax Live experts, that's what makes things interesting. Maybe you were a full time employee who decided to freelance or you started driving rideshare after you're nine to five. TurboTax Live has experienced tax experts dedicated answering all of your tax questions and finding every deduction for you. TurboTax Live experts are ready to help you with your unique situation and get you the best tax outcome. Visit TurboTax dot com to learn more. You do your thing? They've got your taxes. Intuit TurboTax Live. Hi there. You're listening to the lazy genius podcast. I'm Kendra Adachi, and I'm here to help you be a genius about the things that matter and lazy about the things that don't. Today is a very special bonus episode, a conversation with doctor Hillary McBride. You might be familiar with Hillary from her time as one of the hosts of theliterous podcast or from her own podcast. Other people's problems. But she has written a book that I think is essential reading for being a human. It's called the wisdom of your body. Aundi it is a transformative, kind, empowering message about what it means to live in your body. In this episode, Hillary talks about why our bodies aren't what we look like, how to engage with our bodies in healing ways. Aundi what it means to exist with pain and tension and let it make us more of who we are. Also her voice is It's like honey butter. She's just the best. So please enjoy this bonus episode with doctor Hillary McBride. Hello Hillary. Hello, Kendra. Oh my goodness. So good to be with you. It's so fun when interviews start, like, we haven't been talking for ten minutes already. Right. But that was off the record stuff. Yes. It was. That was all of the the I was gonna say the juicy stuff, but I don't want anyone to feel like they're missing out. It was the boring stuff. It was the boring Nothing important happened. We saved all the good stuff for this interview. Indeed, we did. I did survey recently and asked people like who they follow. There are not as many people who know who you arent. great. And I'm so excited about that because you got a Hillary's success. So would you just tell us little bit about who you are in your work? Well, I have to say that my plan for my life, which is to create public work but remain unknown, is going well. So I don't know that this is how the publishers like to, you know, kind of work with an author, but I would love to write books and then disappear, disappear so far. I don't know that this is how the publishers like to, you know, kind of work with an author, but I would love to write books and then disappear completely. So So I I'm gonna have to grieve being introduced to your audience because it will I'm just joking. No. This is this is wonderful. Like, I wait to meet all of you and be introduced to you into your lives through the sound waves of this interview. I'm a registered psychologist, which means that I do a bunch of things. I I do therapy, I teach, I research, right? But really, I think the reason I'm a psychologist because I'm really interested in being a person, I'm interested in people, I'm so curious about what it means to be human. And I'm on this quest. I think like many of us to figure out, how do we do this? How do we do this? And Aundi what are the points where it goes wrong? And what can we do about that? And how come there isn't very much to tell us how to stay with what's good Aundi be with that and really kind of hone in on the wonderful, beautiful parts being human in a way that helps resource us when when things are hard. So I am I am human. I am interested in being human. I'm interested in your experience of being human Aundi particular this really vital slice to that, which is how we are in bodies is human. We are not just these astral projections or cloud bubbles or thought bubbles that float above bodies, but we have flesh. We have joints and longings Aundi aches and illness. And vibrancy and joy, and we want to fist pump in the air when things are going well dance at weddings, and that is somehow really important to being human. So that's a big part of the slice of my work. Did you know that one of the main titles that I pitched the Lacey Genius Way to be was how to be a person? Oh, brilliant. Because it's like knows how to do that. No. And Tara, Kendra, no Kendra. No. Enter a lot of people who enter that were so we're also maybe desperate. Isn't the right isn't the right word. Perhaps in certain seasons, we're desperate for it, but it feels like it's the most basic Like, just how to be a person in world. Yeah. And yet it's so deeply complicated in many ways. And one of the things that I really love like you said, this particular slice of your work in talking about the body and embodiment is It is would you agree a misunderstood understanding? We have we have, like, a a pretty wildly flawed perspective on our own bodies. Mhmm. And I learned a lot of that just from your work that you put into the world and then disappear from, like just on Instagram and stuff. But in your in your book, the wisdom of your body, which is so beautiful bestHelpful Aundi kind and smart Aundi all of these words. One of the things that I personally was like, oh yeah, was that our body is not only about appearance. Which is so basic to say out loud. I'm like, well, of course, it's not. Aundi it's the first thing often the only thing we think about. Yeah. So when I was reading your book, you gave a metaphor for what it means to live in your body Aundi then to live where you're only thinking about the appearance of your body. And it was about you called it living on the front lawn. Mhmm. And I would love for you to just sort of explain to us perhaps using that metaphor, why the body is not just about appearance? Sure. So if you imagine your body to be a home, a home that you have lived in your whole life that belongs to you is yours to decorate and experience Aundi, you know, celebrate and also have celebration in when we think about what we do in our homes. We have parties. And we We also cry on the couch with our best friend because something is really hard for us. It's all of this, the highs and the lows are anchored around this particular points, this home. Aundi we think about our body as a home, for many of us, we were born into this home, but we learned we learned to leave. We were wooed out of it to live on the front lawn, to to live our lives really on the sidewalk looking at the house. Aundi so when we can stretch the metaphor as far as we want really to say, we start to look at other people's houses and we go, oh, you know, they've got really great decor on the trim Aundi, but, you know, my, you know, my house is creaking. And maybe if I just tweak these things Aundi it could look like my neighbors Aundi really move into a position of objectifying our bodies. We leave the inner felt experience of being a body to see appearance of our body as the main way of orienting towards cells in the world or orienting towards our body. And so when I say to people this is kind of like punchline of my book really, like you are your body Aundi anything or anyone that has convinced you otherwise is wrong, but maybe trying to help you, but it's wrong, it's not true information. When I say that to people, there is for many people in inflammatory response because we have thought of our bodies as our When I say that to people, there is for many people in inflammatory response because we have thought of our bodies as our appearance. So when I say you are your body, what people here is you are how you look. And for many people who have been trying to circumnavigate how they look or in particular the conflict they have internally about how they look or the shame about that being told, you or your body feels deeply painful Aundi like it traps them into an appearance that they are in conflict with. But what I'm trying to suggest in saying that you or your body is that you are more than what the house looks like on the outside. In fact, for most of us, we don't even really see the outside of our house except for a few moments a day when we're coming or going. And maybe we go, oh, that's how I know that it's my house, like, when we're driving up the street, we know to turn into the driveway because we see all the signs. It it's identified because of its visual markers as being ours. But it's kind of it's the inside that is meant to house our existence. So Coming back onto the inside, one is actually a way to, oh, create safety for ourselves. It's a way to feel like we have shelter in a world where there is, you know, storms Aundi night and day, and we want privacy really to think about moving back into our home as a way to protect ourselves and create an environment within ourselves worth living in. But 217, and here's what I find really interesting. The reason search on embodiment or coming back into yourself as a body. We might say, if we're using this metaphor, living inside your house again, is actually a way to inoculate us against bad body image. So if we have shame about how we look if we have struggle with our appearance, instead of trying to just change how we look or change how we feel about how we look, moving inside the house, moving back into our bodies is actually a way for us to remember that there is so much more to us so much more to our bodies than just how we look in a way that actually is shown empirically to protect us against the stories that are lobbying against us and our body image or whatever our neighbor is doing with the, you know, kind of the outside of their house. So to speak. What would you say to people who have been living on the front lawn for so long that they don't even really know how to go inside the house would you say to people who have been living on the front lawn for so long? That they don't even really know how to go inside the house anymore. Right. Like, is there a because this is a this is an audience that really loves, like, checklists and formulas -- Uh-huh. -- by default. Mhmm. And we are all learning together to start small and to be kind in that process Aundi that a lot of things cannot be systemized, cannot be mechanized. So is there a practical, small first step that anyone who's listening can take if they're like, oh, what you're saying? That sort of makes sense. That's a new thought for me. I'm definitely on the front lawn. I can't even find the door anymore. Right. Right. What did he what did he hit our elevator do? Uh-huh. Okay. So the first thing is Aundi I I'm imagining that this will land for some people and not for others. The reason we leave our bodies is not because our bodies were ever bad, but we weren't told how to stay in our bodies in safe, connected, attuned way where it wouldn't overwhelm us. And sometimes, when we've had experiences that were otherwise overwhelming, Those showed up in a physiological way. It was loud. There was so much sensation. There was terror. There was overwhelm. And so we learned that our body is unsafe any kind of an unsafe place to be so we learned that our body is unsafe, at any kind of an unsafe place to be in. So it's very important to recognize there for many of us are very good reasons why we left the inside of the house because it was arent and intense in there. Aundi we learn to live on the arent line because although exposed to the elements and redactive of the complexity of being human, at times might have been safer. So I wanna suggest that as we approximate living inside the house again, that we do so in a really gentle, slow, kind of compassionate, curious, thoughtful way, not busting down the front door, not shaming ourselves for, like, kind of, circling the perimeter. But really giving ourselves time to go up and just put our hands on the shingles so to speak of that's that's the house. And I'm closer and maybe I don't have as many raindrops following me as I, you know, shimmy up against the side of this house. So what that looks like practically is can we can we start to get closer even if it's a very small way? And what that might mean is maybe we put our hands on our bodies Yeah. Yeah. This this is my home. And maybe it just starts by gently, you know, touching our own belly or putting our hands on our chest or holding our hands together, just making contact with ourselves. In a way that is kind and gentle Aundi reminds us to slow down sense. So that's one piece of it. Another thought that I have if we're trying to, you know, operationalize this is you're probably gonna wanna go into a house if you also know that there's good things in there, not just all the reasons that you left. So what are the reasons why we go into the house? Aundi is my list, but I encourage people to make their own. Joy, vitality, connection, presence, pleasure, sensuality, maybe even a sense of a fullness, ultimately connecting to intuition and wisdom, being able to care for ourselves better. So maybe making a list because even though that's still an intellectual exercise, we know, like, Frankl and Nietcha have said this, you know, in so many different places. When there is a why, we can get through anyhow. When we have the reason to go towards ourselves as a body, it will make it so much easier what we find inside feels a little foreign or one familiar or it's uncomfortable. And then I think maybe the next optout would be Put your put your ear up against the front door, and you might hear that there's music playing inside. You might hear that there is a dance. That you're being invited And maybe the kind of, again, the practical application of that is starting to notice like do I have hunger or fallen SKUs? Am I tired? Do I do I wanna go to bed? Is there something inside of me that wants to move right now? Can I listen to that even if I don't know how to do something about it because I'm, you know, really in this highly structured way of existing where I, you know, eat at certain times or I go to bed later than I should because I need to step and do all the things? Like, maybe we can't actually engage, but we can start listening and we can start paying attention to the information to decide later what to do with it. Howard Bauchner: One of the things I've learned from your work is to pay attention to the information that my body is trying to tell me -- Mhmm. -- and as early as yesterday. I was feeling incredibly overwhelmed by a personal situation. And I didn't know where to begin. You know, we all have those those situations in our last where we're like, this is so complicated. This is so complex. I don't even know how I feel about this. Aundi whenever we feel some sort of rise or swell, within us that actually does feel we feel it physically somehow that my tendency for forty years has been to push that down. Right? Because you don't know what's going to happen if you let that swell continue. Right? so I have learned from you that paying attention to that is a it's a queue. It's an information. It's information. It's your body saying, hey, this matters. Let's pay attention to this. And so yesterday, I spent some time because I'm a verbal processor, but I didn't really have anyone in that moment to actually verbally process it with. I'm not even kidding, you have a baby Aundi you live in another country across, like, the continent. And I was like, should I call Hillary? All the hilly and don't know this thing I don't really did because I needed to verbally process it, but at the same time, sometimes I use verbal processing. As an excuse to not sit with myself Aundi difficult things. And so I pulled out a I pulled out a notebook Aundi I just started to right process with pen and paper Aundi what art was coming out. And I note I tried to pay attention to when my body had a sensation that was approaching that overwhelm -- Right. -- that felt like Mhmm. I it feels like Aundi it's the same feeling every time. Every single time. You know, it's like it feels like there's a dull, like a blunt saw, like, in the middle of my chest. Mhmm. And then someone is, like, pushing out my eyeballs from behind. And so as I was processing, there were certain things that I wrote that did not elicit that feeling. Aundi then there that I kind of expected, like, it was interesting. And then I even wrote I even wrote in my notes. Oh, saw an eyes. There it is. There's the saw and ice. Like, I actually kept writing saw and eyes. Yeah. Incredible. It was really funny, but it helped me actually zone in on the real maybe not real. That's not the right word. But the the foundational fears of the situation Right? Because all that I was experiencing was real. But it all was kind of holding equal urgency in my processing. That's why it felt so overwhelming because I didn't know which thread to pull. Right. And as I was sitting there and listening to what my body was telling me, I was able to name these two significant pieces of this very elaborate puzzle that were the the deeper fears of the situation Aundi work through those sit with those allow them to kind of like arent, you know, go, okay, we're and and to tell myself, hey, we're okay. You're doing okay. Oh, I'm gonna pick up. so anyway, all that to say, I would not have been able to do that optout you. But going back to what you were saying, like, putting your hands when you said go up and put your hands on the shingles, put your ear against the door. I think for people who have been on the front lawn for so long that even that invitation feels really metaphorically foreign. It's like, I don't even know what that means. And so just as a wanting to share that as a practical example of when you said hunger cues Aundi sleep cues just paying attention to the literal physical sensations that are happening you even said in your book, and I thought it was it was so profound. You were talking about hunger. And you said, how would you describe how your hunger feels? Mhmm. How would you tell someone who didn't know what hunger was? What it feels like. And was that's the widest thing I've ever heard. Which is interesting because what that does actually is it tells us that there is an intuition to that. There is an intuitiveness to recognizing what hunger is. Right. You don't know how to say it. We know what it feels like. So can even that kind of thing, like putting words to how you feel when you're hungry. Putting words to what you're you experience in your body when you put your hand on your chest. that's sort of the practical to me. That's sort of the practical representation of putting your ear against door. Yeah. And the subtext of what you're saying here too is that emotion is a physiological process, whereas for many of us, we've learned to believe that emotion is the label, the cognitive label we put on. It's the word It's how we identify it. It's still kind of happening collaboratively up in kind of up in mind. And yet we're missing all of the stuff that tells us that that's the label that fits. Or for hunger, for example. Right? We're missing how do we know what hunger feels like even though many of us are good at labeling Aundi we're missing all of that information and being able to to sink into our skin in a way that allows us to feel from the inside out yields so much information because these emotions, they come with sensation patterns that have, like, motivational tendencies. So emotion is meant to compel us to go towards something or away from something, or it's meant to tell us stop pay attention, get more information. But if we aren't if we aren't connecting, to what's actually happening in our body, then we're missing how all of that is interwoven with safety, our wisdom, and ultimately who we are, how we know ourselves. Because while there is some some universality in emotion, like you and I have both felt fear, the things that we feel fear about are different based on our lived experience. And so when we know emotion, it actually takes us towards ourselves. It takes us towards What is it that we need to stay safe? What is it we need in order to thrive and flourish? How do we connect? What has hurt us before? What do we want? 230 being unable to be with those feelings leaves us in a way fragmented from ourselves. So dropping out of our heads to feel those sensations in our body. I mean, gosh, your description and the visorality of that is It's poignant. And I think a really good example of how many of us maybe feel like our inner experience is foreign to us. And how we need we need to actually get kind of technical about it. What is that sensation? What does it feel like? What do I like in it 217? And what does it tell me about what parts in my story need to be paid attention to? Because for me, emotion feels like like, the bolding of a text or like a highlighter. It doesn't necessarily tell me, like, if I should do that very thing. Follow that impulse, but it tells me pay attention to that impulse because it tells you something about you. We'll be right back. This episode is sponsored by Squarespace. Y'all, The Lazy Jeans collective site, has only ever lived on a Squarespace site because it's so easy to use. And now I get to share them with you as a podcast, sponsored so fun from websites and online stores to marketing tools and And now I get to share them with you as a podcast sponsor. It's so fun. From websites and online stores to marketing tools and analytics, Squarespace is the all in one platform to build a beautiful online presence and run your business. And it is an easy it is an easy decide. Once for me, I use Squarespace to secure once for me. I use Squarespace to secure domains, house our online merch store, and host the blog and show notes for the podcast. I love how I can bring an idea to life and design a page intuitively with their drag and drop website editor plus everything transfers effortlessly from web to mobile I love how I can bring an idea to life and design a page intuitively with their drag and drop website editor. Plus everything transfers effortlessly from web to mobile devices. 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Make sure to use our special URL because it supports our show. Find out why women are buying five different pairs of these pants. Go to beta brand.com/lazy Go to betabrand dot comlazy genius. For 30% off for thirty percent off. This episode is sponsored by better help online therapy. We talk about better help a lot on the talk about better health a lot on the show, and this month we're discussing some of the stigmas around mental health. One such stigma I want to debunk right now is that you have to be in crisis to ask for help. Sure. Therapy is a resource for when things feel harder than normal, but it's also a tool you can use in everyday life seeking therapy doesn't mean something is wrong with Therapy is a resource for when things feel harder than normal, but it's also a tool you can use in everyday life. Seeking therapy doesn't mean something is wrong with you. 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I was gonna say something else to try to drive that home was gonna say something else to try to drive that home better. And then you said it's like it bolds the text it's like, oh, that's way better than I was gonna say. That's exactly what it is. Because it's not it's not directive. In in the in an actionable way. It is simply, like, it's an arrow. Uh-huh. Hang attention. It's like, Hey, look at this, just look at like, hey. Look at this. Just look at this. Yeah. And when we Aundi it takes practice. I think that's really important too to just to be really gentle in that process of you might not have this profound moment the first time that you start to try to listen to your body and -- Right. -- all these different things. Like, it's it's a it's like rebuilding a relationship. Like, you use word fragmented. Yeah. That we're kind of trying to re rebuild that. So, anyway, that was that was so good. There was something else that you another metaphor that you had in your book that I thought was so helpful especially for this audience. And it is a concept that you call the second arrow. And I would just love for you would say it a lot better than a lot better than I will, but I will I did pull out your book it's like highlighted so aggressively. It's really funny. Aundi I kept changing my pen, and so it looks like someone who was not really it's like them in every room of my house I just grabbed whatever right he just was supposed to Oh, kinda. Thank you. But you you were talking about how the first arrow is you say, we get an injury, we get sick, we face a loss, we struggle with the disease, and that is the first arrow. In some ways, it's something that is done to us out of our control. Right. Right. Something that happens. Yes. Yes. And then you say, but we are the ones who shoot the second then you say, but we are the ones who shoot the second arrow. The second arrow is shot when we add to our own pain and suffering by how we talk to ourselves and others. About what is happening with us. Mhmm. So can you I feel like that is I I think a lot of people listening just went Oh, man. Right. I've got I have a quiver of second to arrows. Right. And third Aundi fourth and fifth. Right. So Yes. I'll start by saying, this is not something that I made start by saying this is not something that I made up. up. This is a Buddhist is a Buddhist principle. And so it's something that you can read lots about and find other places. If you wanna dig into it more, this is not something that I've, you know, t m ed. It is is. It's so important to recognize that there is a normative degree of pain in our existence of being so important to recognize that there is a normative degree of pain in our existence of being human. And that that's not actually something that we need to escape from or be rescued from, although many of us have not learned or been supported about in how to how to be with the pain of being human. So when the pain of viewing human presents itself, you know, someone we love to eyes, when there's an illness, when we get a cancer diagnosis, when there's an injury. When you lose your job, when you I mean, it could be any number of things your kid gets sick. You There's a natural disaster. disaster. I mean, a I mean, a pandemic. Let's just throw that in the mix here. And we have these things happen in our life as a means of at times feeling responsible for them and trying to really shame our way into change, shame our way or criticize our way out of our suffering. To give ourselves the illusion that we have more power than we do, do. We beat ourselves beat ourselves up. We bring in another element to kind of hopefully create enough pressure that helps us get away from the suffering that we had as if we're responsible for it. So the thing that happens is the first arrow as you identified, but how we respond to ourselves about it is the second arrow. So if somebody just say if I wake up and I'm in pain, my body is in pain because of something I did or I'm sick or whatnot. Shaming ourselves, adding to the injury, by shooting ourselves again, that's the secondarom, that's something that we're responsible for. for. We can't necessarily always change what happens with the first arrow, but the second arrow is something that we can be responsible can't necessarily always change what happens with the first arrow, but the second arrow is something that we can be responsible for. And many of us have learned, like I said, to respond to our pain in a way that adds more pain to it. It's like we we don't know how to turn compassion towards ourselves because maybe on some level, we think, you know, then I'm gonna be lazy. Right? right. Or then I'm going to be ineffective or then more horrible things are going to then I'm gonna be ineffective or then more horrible things are gonna happen. But I, you know, really up the ante and squeeze myself Aundi add more criticism and shame, then I can, what, stop the pandemic from happening? Or so you were like, like, you know, change the diagnosis or, like, bring that loved one back. Like, it's the it's the second arrow has a function for us but it's ineffective and kind of adds to our suffering. So what we want to try to do is recognize that there are hurts that happen, but instead of adding more pain to them, we come to those hurts with kindness, with tenderness, with endurance, as a way of supporting ourselves through them, as a way of healing Aundi and helping ourselves be kind. And it's I think this Like, I'm kind of alluding to it with my last statement there, but it's really genuinely hard to be deeply compassionate with other people and they're suffering if we can't also do that ourselves. There tends to be this parallel process between kind of what we fuel ourselves with or how we talk to ourselves Aundi what we ultimately believe about other people and their pain too. And so think that when we turn towards our own suffering with kindness Aundi compassion and curiosity, what we're doing is we're building foundation for a more just Aundi loving world, that it is not just about us healing ourselves, but ultimately telling a new story about being human offering, creating a well of kindness inside of ourselves that it can then spill out into other people when we see their suffering too. That is LinksThe the entire that's the that's the more concise version of the whole thirteenth chapter of my book, The Lazy GeneSway. Because that's the final principle is to be kind to herself. And and I didn't realize how much I personally for so long had been hamstringing my ability to be with people in their hurt, and without judgment, without trying to fix it, because I was always judging my own stuff. I was always trying to fix my own problems. Like, it is. It's it's a it's almost like a muscle that we develop Aundi it's such a strange thing that we also much wanna connect with other people. We wanna either for the people that we love. And it is hard to sit with people in difficult situations. situations. It It is. Mhmm. And at the same time, we're using this this muscle that we desire to have, but it is so deeply trophy because we never use it on ourselves. And then we're like, this is uncomfortable. This is uncomfortable. uncomfortable. I think it was to do, and we start to hate to do. And we start to panic, and then we say things that we all say the wrong things. We all say things that we have to apologize for later. But we I know for me, I felt like I was consistently saying the wrong thing out of protection for myself because I didn't know how to be with people when things were hard because I didn't know how to be with myself when things were hard. so I I just I really love the simplicity of self compassion and being kind to that can happen in kind of slow drips, in less consequential ways. You know, not sitting with a friend or a family member who just had cancer diagnosis, but maybe when you like me, pull up to a three way stop at a busy target shopping center Aundi you yell at someone because they don't know how to use the three way stop. Aundi then to go, okay, like, to take a night back and go, they person. I am a person. This does not matter as much. Like, you know, whatever it is. The other day, this is my kids know how much I hate this through. We stop because the other day, my ten year old, he said, mom, do you wanna go around the back way so that you can skip to three years old? as long as you, my sleep bed. I bed. I was like, you're so smart, like, you're so smart, buddy. Let's do that. Let's not even put mommy to the studio. Right. Where she's gonna have an exercise so compassion for making a bad call. That reminds me of that parable. Like, you know, I walked down the street. I fell on the hole. hole. I walked on the street, I fell in the I walked on the street. I fell on the hole. hole. I walked down the street, I see the walked down the street. I see the hole. hole. I walked down the I walk down the street. street. I see, I try to walk I see I try to walk around file in the hall. I walked down another street. Just just pick a different street. It's just different street. To do. But that we can actually pick different streets. Kindly -- Mhmm. -- that are simpler. And -- Right. -- like I said, less consequential. Like, you don't have dinner. You don't know what dinner is gonna be at five thirty. Yeah. Like, don't be yourself all up about that. Right. Just pull out hot dogs. It's gonna be okay. You know, like, it's it's it's -- Yeah. -- that. And the more that you practice that kindness in those smaller spaces, the less foreign it feels when you're in the more complicated the more that you practice that kindness in those smaller spaces, the less foreign it feels when you're in -- Mhmm. -- complicated one. Well, let's flip this on its head too Aundi think about if what's what's happening internally is spilling out. out. Then it gives us a kind of a legend, like, I think of a legend on a map to understand why some of the people who heard us treat us the way that they do, because they're also showing us what it's like internally for it gives us a kind of a legend, like, I think of a legend on a map, to understand why some of the people who hurt us treat us the way that they do because they're also showing us what it's like internally for them. So somebody is really really cruel for us they're the one yelling at us at the three way stop at Target. Mhmm. Mhmm. Then we can look at that Aundi we can easily like, oh, that's about me or say, oh, I wonder if that's how they talk to themselves inside too. Like, oh, I think that they're just showing me that inside hasn't always been a safe place for them to be too. And then when we kind of have in this kind of psychedelic way, the spin out where we see those people, you know, connected to the people who raised them Aundi the people who raised them Aundi the people who raised them, we see how this person who's yelling at us at, you know, in the grocery store or is being cruel to us on Twitter or whatever the thing is, like, oh, they're doing the thing that was done to them. them. and all of a sudden, it's easier to engender compassion. compassion. Like, no wonder they're treating me this way, because this is the way they were no wonder they're treating me this way. Yeah. Because this is the way they were treat it and they didn't deserve that no, it's not my responsibility to fix them. But I can see that I don't have to add, here it is, the second arrow to this situation, situation. I can add compassion to add compassion to them and to me because this is just one of those things where hurt is playing out in life. And not necessarily, you know, a proof of my badness. But here's this person who is interacting with me because it's the only way that they know how. But I don't have to beat myself up about it. You're so smart. Oh, I love that that. You're like, wait, like, wait. What? Well, you're so good at words and making things make sense. Oh, I feel like you were really, really doing the heavy lifting today. I was like, oh, you said it you said it better than I say. I there was actually what's the attitude to second era of my self. myself. At one point I did kind of, when I was saying words and I was like, I love At one point, I did kind of what what I was saying words, and I was like, I love that I'm trying to carry on a conversation with this doctor. With this amazing therapist. Like, I know what I'm talking about. And then I was like, you know what? It's okay. I've had lived it. I've I've had good I've had lived experiences. experiences. I am, I have been told it was a very healing I am I have been told it was a very healing arent. Actually, I had a therapist, Aundi Kolber, who was on the show last and she said that my work was trauma informed. Aundi I was like, oh, my gosh. Like, that was such a a truly, like, healing redemptive thing for her to say. Aundi anyway, so I that was one of the things that just had to stop, like, you know, you can you can have this you can have this conversation. Oh, can I have to send a second arrow? It says Oh, did that? Goodness. What is your read for me to learn from you? And there's something, as you know, writing a book putting it on the world when people interact with it Aundi like kind of launch it back to you in a way. You see things that you didn't see even as you were writing it. it. And so I want to say, not only are you allowed to have this conversation, thank you for teaching so I arent say, not only are you allowed to have this conversation, thank you for teaching me. Thank you for teaching me about this work, about what matters about it, about how it lands for you, about the areas that I can expand on even more, more. I feel grateful for, for how I've learned from you in this feel grateful for for how I've learned from you. In this pluralization. It's very, very kind. Mhmm. So you guys Hillary is living in a cave she will not talk to any of us again. I can't read her book. We're kidding. But the book is called The Wisdom of Your Body by Dr. Hillary McBride. And it really is one of those slow gestable. Like, you're gonna wanna take your time with it. Like, I was pounding myself zipping through Aundi then stop zipping. Because was like, no. No. No. I don't wanna zip here. I wanna sit with this. this. It's there's just so much help in there that feel your metaphors are so there's just so much -- Wow. -- help in there. That feel your metaphors are so good. I wrote I've just made a list of many of them, and they're just usually, like, defenses or, like, winter coats. Thoughts like, blossoms on a flower. Like, there were all of the the front lawn one. There were all these things that just help help this sort of large this episode sponsored by TurboTax. Unusual circumstances mean complicated taxes. But for TurboTax Live Experts, that's what makes things interesting. Maybe you were a full time employee who decided to freelance or you started driving rideshare after your nine to five. TurboTax Live has experienced tax experts, dedicated answering all of your tax questions, and finding every overwhelming. It can feel almost in many ways, very disembodied because it's just information given to for you. TurboTax Live experts are ready to help you with your unique situation and get you the best tax outcome. Visit TurboTax dot com to learn more. You do your They've got your taxes. Intuit TurboTax Live. Hi there. You're listening to the lazy genius podcast. I'm Kendra Adachi, and I'm here to help you be a genius about the things that matter lazy about the things that don't. You so Today is a very special bonus episode, a conversation with doctor Hillary McBride. You might be familiar with Hillary from her time as one of the hosts of theliterous podcast or from her own podcast, other people's problems. But she has written a book that I think is essential reading for being a human. It's called the wisdom of your body. Aundi it is a transformative, kind, empowering message about what it means to live in your body. In this episode, Hillary talks about why our bodies aren't what we look like, how to engage with our bodies in healing ways. Aundi what it means to exist with pain and tension and let it make us more of who we are. Also her voice is It's like honey butter. She's just the best. So please enjoy this bonus episode with doctor Hillary McBride. Hello, Hillary. Hello, Kendra. Oh my goodness. So good to be with you. It's so fun when interviews start, like, we haven't been talking for ten minutes already. reading. And you think of that as really good information that you can get used to get to know yourself better instead of just a way to no, my ideas Right. But that was off the record stuff. Yes. It was. That was all of the the I was gonna say the juicy stuff, but I don't want anyone to feel like they're missing out. It was the boring stuff. It was the boring stuff. Nothing important happened. We saved all the good stuff for this interview. Indeed, we did. I did a survey recently and asked people like who they follow. There are not as many people who know who you arent. Oh, great. And I'm so excited about that. Because you've got a Hillary's the best. So would you just tell us little bit about who you are in your work? Well, I have to say that my planned for my life, which is to create public work but remain unknown, is going well so far. I don't know that this is how the publishers like to, you know, kind of work with an author, but I would love to write books Aundi then disappear or disappear completely. So so I I'm gonna have to grieve being introduced to your audience because it will I'm just joking. No. This is this is wonderful. Like, I want to meet all of you and be introduced to you into your lives through the sound waves of this interview. I'm a registered psychologist, which means that I do a bunch of things. I do therapy. I teach. I research. Right? But really, I think the reason I'm a psychologist because I'm really interested in being a person, I'm interested in people, I'm so curious about what means to be human, Aundi I'm on this quest. I think like many of us to figure out how do we do this? How do we do this? And Aundi what are the points where it goes wrong Aundi can we do about that how come there isn't very much to tell us how to stay with what's good and be with that and really kind of hone in on the wonderful, beautiful parts of being human in a way that helps resource us when when things are hard. So I am I am human I'm interested in being human. I'm interested in your experience of being human. And in particular,

43:34

this really vital

43:36

slice to that, which is how

43:38

we are in bodies is human. We

43:40

are not just these actual projections or

43:43

cloud bubbles or thought bubbles that float

43:45

above bodies, but

43:47

we have flesh. We have joints and

43:50

longings Aundi aches

43:52

and illness. And vibrancy and

43:54

joy, and we want to fist pump in the air

43:56

when things are going well dance at

43:59

weddings, and that is somehow

44:01

really important to being human. So that's a big

44:03

part of the slice of my work. Did you know

44:05

that one of the main titles that I

44:07

pitched the Lacey Genius Way to Be was how

44:09

to be a person? Oh, brilliant.

44:12

Because it's like just know how

44:14

to do that. No. Enter,

44:17

Kendra. No. Enter a

44:19

lot of people who end with that or So

44:21

we're also maybe desperate

44:23

isn't the right word. Perhaps in certain seasons,

44:25

we're desperate for it. But

44:27

it feels like it's the most basic

44:29

thing, like, just how to be a person in

44:31

the world. Yeah. And yet it's so

44:34

deeply complicated in many ways.

44:36

And one of the things that I really

44:38

love about, like you said, this particular slice

44:41

of your work in talking

44:43

about the body and embodiment is

44:46

it is would

44:48

you create misunderstood understanding?

44:52

We have we have, like, a

44:54

a pretty wildly flawed perspective

44:57

on our own bodies. Mhmm. And

44:59

I learned a lot of that just

45:01

from your work that you put into

45:04

the world and then disappear from, like just

45:06

on Instagram and stuff. But in your

45:08

in your book, the wisdom of your body,

45:10

which is so beautiful bestHelpful

45:13

and kind and smart Aundi all of these words.

45:16

One of the things that

45:19

I personally was

45:21

like, oh, yeah. Was

45:23

that our body is not

45:26

only about appearance. Which

45:29

is so basic to say out loud. I'm like, well, of

45:31

course, it's not. Aundi yet, it's the

45:33

first thing Aundi often the only thing we think

45:35

about. Yeah. So when I was

45:37

reading your book, you gave a metaphor

45:40

for what it means to live in your body then

45:43

to live where you're only thinking about

45:45

the appearance of your body. And

45:47

it was about you called it living on the front

45:49

lawn. Mhmm. And I would love for you

45:51

to just sort of explain to us

45:54

perhaps using that metaphor, why

45:56

the body is not just about appearance?

46:00

Sure. So if you imagine

46:02

your body to be a home,

46:04

a home that you have lived in

46:06

your whole life that belongs to you is yours

46:09

to decorate and experience and,

46:11

you know, celebrate and also have

46:13

celebration in when we think about what we do

46:15

in our homes. We have parties Aundi we

46:18

We also cry on the couch with our best

46:20

friend because something is really hard for us.

46:22

It's all of this, the highs

46:24

and the lows are anchored around this

46:27

particular points, this home.

46:29

Aundi if we think about our body as a home,

46:32

for many of us, we were born into

46:34

this home, but we learned we learned

46:36

to leave. We were wooed out of it to live

46:39

on the front lawn, to to live our

46:41

lives really on the sidewalk looking at the

46:43

house. Aundi so when we can stretch

46:45

the metaphor as far as we want really to say,

46:47

we start to look at other people's houses and we go,

46:50

oh, you know, they've got really great

46:52

decor on the trim Aundi, but,

46:54

you know, my, you know, my house

46:56

is creaking. And maybe if I just tweak these

46:58

things it could look like my neighbors Aundi

47:02

really move into a position

47:04

of objectifying our bodies. We

47:06

leave the inner felt

47:09

experience of being a body

47:12

to see appearance

47:15

of our body as the main way

47:17

of orienting towards cells in the world

47:19

or orienting towards our body. And

47:22

so when I say to people

47:24

this is kind of like punchline

47:26

of my book really, like you are

47:29

your body Aundi anything

47:31

or anyone that has convinced you

47:33

otherwise is wrong, but

47:35

maybe trying to help you, but it's

47:38

wrong, it's not true information.

47:41

When I say that to people, there is for

47:43

many people in inflammatory response

47:46

because we have

47:48

thought of our bodies as our appearance. So when

47:50

I say you are your body, what people hear

47:52

is you are how you look. Aundi many

47:54

people who have been trying to circumnavigate

47:58

how they look or in particular, conflict

48:01

they have internally about how they look or the

48:03

shame about that being told, you

48:06

or your body feels deeply painful

48:08

Aundi like it traps them

48:11

into an appearance that they are

48:13

in conflict with. But

48:15

what I'm trying to suggest in saying that

48:18

you or your body is that you are more than

48:20

what the house looks like on the

48:22

outside. In fact,

48:25

for most of us, we don't even really

48:27

see the outside of our house except for a few moments

48:29

a day when we're coming or going. And

48:31

maybe we go, oh, that's how I know that it's

48:34

my house. Like, when we're driving up the street, we

48:36

know to turn into the driveway because we see all

48:38

the signs. It it's identified

48:41

because of its visual markers as being

48:43

ours. But it's kind

48:45

of it's the inside that

48:47

is meant to house our

48:50

existence. So

48:52

coming back optout the inside,

48:55

one is actually a way to

48:59

create safety for ourselves. It's

49:01

a way to feel like we have shelter

49:04

in a world where there is, you know, storms

49:07

like, night and day Aundi

49:10

we want privacy really to think about

49:12

moving back into our home as a way to protect

49:14

ourselves. And create

49:16

an environment within ourselves worth living

49:18

in. But 217, and here's what

49:20

I find really interesting, the

49:23

reason search on embodiment or coming

49:25

back into yourself as

49:27

a body. We might say, if we're using this

49:29

metaphor, living inside your house again,

49:31

is actually a way to inoculate us

49:33

against bad body image. So

49:36

if we have shame about

49:38

how we look if we have

49:40

struggle with our appearance, instead

49:43

of trying to just change how we

49:46

look or change how we feel about how we look,

49:48

moving inside the house, moving

49:50

back into our bodies is actually a way

49:53

for us to remember that there is so much

49:55

more to us, so much more to our

49:57

bodies. Than just how we look in a way

49:59

that actually is shown empirically

50:02

to protect us against the

50:05

stories that are lobbying against us and

50:07

our body image or whatever our neighbor

50:09

is doing with the, you know, kind of the outside

50:11

of their house, so to speak. What

50:14

would you say to

50:17

people who have

50:19

been living on the front lawn for so long?

50:22

That they don't even really know how to go inside

50:24

the house anymore. Right. Like, is

50:26

there a this because this

50:28

is a this is an audience that really

50:30

loves, like, checklists and formulas

50:32

-- Uh-huh. -- by default.

50:34

Mhmm. And we are all learning together to

50:37

start small and to be kind in that

50:39

process Aundi that a lot of things cannot

50:41

be systemized, cannot be mechanized. So

50:46

is there a practical small

50:49

first step that

50:52

anyone who's listening can take if they're like, oh,

50:54

what you're saying? That sort of makes

50:56

sense. That's a new thought for me. I'm definitely

50:58

on the front lawn. I can't even find the door

51:00

anymore. Right. What

51:03

do they what do they because I love to

51:05

do? Uh-huh. Okay.

51:08

So the first thing, is

51:11

Aundi I I'm imagining that this will

51:13

land for some people and not for others. The

51:15

reason we leave our bodies is

51:18

not because our bodies were ever bad, but we weren't

51:20

told how to stay in our bodies in

51:22

a safe, connected, attuned way where

51:24

it wouldn't overwhelm us. And sometimes, when

51:26

we've had experiences that were otherwise overwhelming,

51:30

those showed up in physiological way.

51:32

It was loud. There was so much

51:34

sensation. There was terror,

51:36

there was overwhelm, and so we learned

51:38

that our body is unsafe, Aundi kind

51:40

of an unsafe place to be in. So

51:43

it's very important to recognize that there

51:45

for many of us are very good reasons why we

51:48

left the inside of the house.

51:50

Because it was arent and intense in

51:52

there. And we learned to live on the arent line

51:55

because although exposed

51:57

to the elements, and reductive

51:59

of the complexity of being human at

52:01

times might have been safer. So I

52:03

wanna suggest that as we approximate

52:06

living inside the house again, that

52:08

we do so in a really gentle,

52:11

slow, kind of compassionate, curious,

52:13

thoughtful way, not busting down the

52:15

front door, not shaming

52:18

ourselves for, like,

52:20

you know, circling the perimeter, but

52:22

really giving ourselves time

52:25

to go up and just put our hands

52:27

on the shingles so to speak.

52:29

Oh, that's that's the house.

52:31

And I'm closer and maybe I don't have as many

52:33

raindrops following me as I you know,

52:36

shimmy up against the side of this house.

52:38

So what that looks like practically is

52:40

can we can we start to

52:43

get closer? Even

52:45

if it's a very small way. And what

52:47

that might mean is maybe we put our hands on our

52:49

bodies. Yeah. Yeah,

52:53

this this is my home.

52:56

And maybe it just starts by gently,

52:58

you know, touching our own belly or

53:00

putting our hands on our chest. Or

53:03

holding our hands together, just making

53:05

contact with ourselves. In

53:08

a way that is kind and gentle, and

53:10

reminds us to slow down Aundi

53:13

So that's one piece of it. Another

53:16

thought that I have if we're trying to kind

53:18

of operationalize this is you're

53:20

probably gonna arent go into

53:22

a house if you also know that there's good

53:25

things in there, not just all the reasons that

53:27

you left. So what are the reasons

53:29

why we go into the house? And

53:32

this is my list, but I encourage people to make

53:34

their own. Joy,

53:36

vitality, connection, presence,

53:39

pleasure, sensuality, maybe

53:42

even a sense of a fullness, ultimately

53:45

connecting to intuition and wisdom, being

53:48

able to care for ourselves better. So

53:51

maybe making a list because even

53:53

though that's still an intellectual exercise,

53:56

we know, like, Frankl and Nietzsche have

53:58

said this you know, in so many different

54:00

places, when there is a why, we can get through

54:02

anyhow. When we have the

54:04

reason to go towards ourselves

54:08

as a body, it will make it so much

54:10

easier of what we find inside feels a little

54:12

foreign or unfamiliar or it's uncomfortable.

54:15

And then I think maybe the next

54:18

next option would be put your

54:20

put your ear up against the front door.

54:23

Aundi you might hear that there's music playing inside.

54:26

You might hear that there is a dance

54:28

that you're being invited into. Aundi

54:31

maybe the kind of, again, the practical

54:33

application of that is starting

54:35

to notice, like, do I have hunger or

54:37

fullness cues? Am I tired? Do

54:39

I do I want to go to bed? Is there something

54:41

inside of me that wants to move right now? Can

54:43

I listen to that? And even if I don't know how to

54:46

do something about it because I'm really

54:48

in this highly

54:50

structured way of existing where I, you know, eat

54:52

at certain times or I go to bed

54:55

later than I should because I need to

54:57

stay up and do all the things. Like, maybe we can't actually

54:59

engage, but we can start

55:01

listing Aundi we can start paying attention

55:03

to the information to decide

55:06

later what to do with it. 157

55:08

of the things I've learned from from your

55:10

work is to pay

55:13

attention to the information that my body is trying

55:15

to tell me -- Mhmm. -- and as

55:18

early as yesterday. I

55:21

was feeling incredibly

55:23

overwhelmed by a personal situation.

55:27

I didn't know where to begin.

55:30

You know, we all have those those

55:32

situations in our last where we're like, This

55:34

is so complicated. This is so complex.

55:36

I don't even know how I feel about this. And

55:40

whenever we feel

55:42

some sort of rise

55:45

or swell within us

55:47

that actually does feel we feel

55:49

it physically somehow. That

55:53

my tendency for

55:55

forty years has been to push

55:58

that down. Right? Because you don't know what's

56:00

going to happen if you let that swell continue.

56:02

Right? Mhmm. And so

56:04

I have learned from

56:06

you that paying

56:09

attention to that is

56:11

a it's a queue. It's an it's

56:14

information. It's your body saying, hey, this matters.

56:16

Let's pay attention to this. And so

56:18

yesterday, I spent some time

56:21

because I'm a verbal processor, but I didn't really

56:23

have anyone in that moment to actually

56:25

verbally process it with. I'm not

56:27

even kidding, you have baby and you live in

56:29

another country across like,

56:32

the continent. And I was like, should I

56:34

call Hillary? Can I call Hillary and don't know

56:36

this guy? I don't have to really do. Because

56:38

I needed to verbally process it, but at the same

56:40

time, sometimes I

56:43

use verbal processing as

56:45

an excuse. To not sit with myself

56:47

Aundi difficult things. And so

56:49

I pulled out a I pulled out a notebook Aundi I

56:51

just started to write process.

56:54

With pen and paper and process whatever was coming

56:56

out. And I know I tried to

56:58

pay attention to when

57:01

my body had a sensation that

57:05

was approaching that overwhelm -- Right. -- that

57:07

felt like -- Mhmm. -- and I it feels

57:09

like and it's the same feeling every

57:12

time. Every single time. You know, it's like it

57:14

feels like there's a dull, like

57:16

a blunt saw -- Mhmm.

57:18

-- like in the middle of my chest.

57:21

Aundi then someone is, like,

57:23

pushing out my eyeballs from behind.

57:27

And so as I was processing, There

57:29

were certain things that I wrote that

57:32

did not elicit that feeling.

57:35

Aundi then that I kind of expected, like,

57:37

it was staying. And then I even

57:39

wrote I even wrote in my notes. Oh,

57:41

saw an ice. There it is. There's the saw an ice.

57:43

Like, I actually kept writing saw. And

57:45

eyes. Yeah. Incredible. It

57:47

was really funny, but it helped me

57:50

actually zone

57:52

in on the real

57:54

Maybe not real. That's not the right word. But

57:56

the the foundational fears

57:58

of the situation -- Right. -- because all that I was

58:00

experiencing was real. But

58:03

it all was kind of holding equal urgency

58:05

in my processing. That's why it felt so overwhelming

58:07

because I didn't know which thread to pull.

58:10

Right. Aundi I was sitting there

58:12

and listening to what my

58:14

body was telling me, I was

58:16

able to name

58:19

these two significant

58:21

pieces of this very elaborate puzzle

58:24

that were the the deeper fears of the situation.

58:27

And work through those sit

58:29

with those Aundi allow them to kind of like

58:31

crest, you know, go, oh, okay.

58:34

We're and and to tell myself, hey, we're okay.

58:36

You're doing. Okay. Oh, you have a mess. And so

58:38

anyway, all that to say, I would not have been able

58:41

to do that optout you. But

58:43

going back to what you were saying, like, putting your

58:45

hands when you said

58:47

go up and put your hands on the shingles, put your

58:49

ear against the door. I

58:51

think for people who have

58:54

been on the front lawn for so long

58:56

that even that invitation feels really

58:59

metaphorically foreign. It's like I don't even

59:01

know what that means. Aundi so just as

59:03

a wanting to share that as practical example

59:06

of when you set hunger cues and sleep

59:08

cues just paying

59:10

attention to the literal physical

59:13

sensations that are happening you

59:15

even said in your book, and I thought it was it was

59:17

so profound. You were talking about hunger,

59:20

and you said, how would you describe

59:22

how your hunger feels? Mhmm. How would

59:24

you tell someone who didn't know what hunger

59:26

was, what it feels like? And

59:28

I was like, That's the widest thing

59:30

I've ever heard. Which

59:33

is interesting because what that does actually

59:35

is it tells us that

59:38

there is an intuition to that.

59:40

There is an intuitiveness to recognizing

59:42

what hunger is. Right. You don't

59:44

know how to say it. But we know what it feels

59:47

like. So can even that kind of thing,

59:49

like putting words to how

59:52

you feel when you're hungry. Putting words to

59:54

what you're you experience in your body when you put

59:56

your hand on your chest. Like -- Yeah. -- that's sort of

59:58

the practical. To me, that's

1:00:00

sort of the practical representation

1:00:04

of putting your ear against the door. Yeah.

1:00:06

And the subtext of what you're saying here

1:00:08

too is that a mode is a

1:00:10

physiological process, whereas for many

1:00:12

of us, we've learned to believe that emotion is

1:00:14

the label, the cognitive label we put on.

1:00:16

It's the word It's how we identify

1:00:19

it. It's still kind of happening collaboratively

1:00:21

up in kind of up in our mind. And

1:00:23

yet we're missing all of

1:00:25

the stuff that tells us but that's

1:00:28

the label that fits. Or for hunger, for example.

1:00:30

Right? We're missing, how do we

1:00:32

know what hunger feels like even

1:00:34

though many of us are good at labeling Aundi We're

1:00:37

missing all of that information and being

1:00:39

able to to sink into

1:00:41

our skin in a way that allows us

1:00:44

to to feel

1:00:46

from the inside out yields

1:00:48

so much information because

1:00:50

these emotions, they come with sensation patterns

1:00:53

that have, like, motivational tendencies.

1:00:56

So emotion is meant to compel

1:00:58

us to go towards something or

1:01:00

away from something, or it's meant to tell

1:01:02

us stop pay attention, get

1:01:05

more information. But if we

1:01:07

aren't if we aren't connecting

1:01:10

to what's actually happening in our body, then we're

1:01:12

missing how all of that is interwoven

1:01:15

with safety, our wisdom,

1:01:17

and ultimately who we are,

1:01:19

how we know ourselves. Because

1:01:21

while there is some some universality in

1:01:24

emotion, like you and I have both felt fear,

1:01:26

the things that we feel fear about are different

1:01:29

based on our lived experience. And so when

1:01:31

we know emotion, it actually takes

1:01:33

success towards ourselves. It takes

1:01:35

us towards what is it that

1:01:37

we need to stay safe, what is it we need

1:01:39

in order to thrive and flourish, How

1:01:42

do we connect? What has hurt us before?

1:01:44

What do we want? But being

1:01:46

unable to be with

1:01:48

those feelings leaves us in a way

1:01:50

fragmented from ourselves. So

1:01:53

dropping out of our heads to

1:01:55

feel those sensations in our body. I

1:01:57

mean, gosh, your description Aundi

1:02:00

the visorality of that is it's

1:02:03

poignant. And I think a really good

1:02:05

example of how many of us

1:02:08

maybe feel like our inner experience

1:02:10

is foreign to us Aundi how we need

1:02:13

we need to actually get kind

1:02:15

of optout What is that sensation?

1:02:17

What does it feel like? What

1:02:19

do I like in it 217? And what does it

1:02:21

tell me about what parts

1:02:24

in my story need to be a paid attention to.

1:02:26

Because for me, emotion feels like like bolding

1:02:29

of a text or like a highlighter. It doesn't

1:02:31

necessarily tell me,

1:02:34

like, if I should do that

1:02:36

very thing, follow that impulse, but it tells

1:02:38

me pay attention to that impulse because it tells

1:02:40

you something about you. We'll

1:02:44

be right back. This

1:02:47

episode is sponsored by Squarespace. Y'all,

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genius. I

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was gonna say something else to try

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to drive that home

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better. And then you said it's like it bolds the text it's

1:05:57

like, that's way better I was gonna say. That's

1:06:00

exactly what it is. Because it's not

1:06:02

it's not directive in

1:06:04

in the in an actionable way. It

1:06:06

is simply, like, it's an arrow. Paying

1:06:09

attention. It's like, hey. Look at this. Just look

1:06:11

at this. Yeah. And -- Yeah. -- when we and

1:06:14

it takes practice, I think that's really important

1:06:16

too to just to be really

1:06:18

gentle in that process of you

1:06:20

might not have this profound

1:06:23

arent. The first time that

1:06:25

you start to try to listen to your body.

1:06:27

And -- Right. -- all these different things. Like, it's it's

1:06:30

it's like rebuilding a relationship. Like,

1:06:32

you use the word fragmented. Yeah.

1:06:35

That we're kind of trying to re rebuild that.

1:06:37

So, anyway, that was that was so good.

1:06:39

There was something else that you another

1:06:41

metaphor that you had. In

1:06:43

your book that I thought was so helpful,

1:06:47

especially for this audience. And

1:06:49

it is a concept that you call the

1:06:51

second arrow. Aundi

1:06:53

I would just love for you would say it a lot better

1:06:55

than a lot better than I will, but I will

1:06:58

I did pull out your book Aundi it's

1:07:00

like highlighted so aggressively. It's

1:07:03

really funny. And I kept

1:07:05

changing my pen, and so it looks like

1:07:08

someone who was not

1:07:10

really it's like them, in every room of my

1:07:12

house, I just grab whatever writing attention it

1:07:14

was. Oh, kind of. Thank you. But

1:07:16

you you were talking about how

1:07:20

The first arrow is,

1:07:23

you say, we get an injury. We get

1:07:25

sick. We face a loss. We struggle with

1:07:27

the disease. Aundi that is the first

1:07:29

arrow. In some ways, it's something

1:07:31

that done to us out of our control.

1:07:33

Right. Right. Something that happens. Yes. Aundi

1:07:36

then you say, but we

1:07:38

are the ones who shoot the second arrow.

1:07:41

The second arrow is shot when we add to

1:07:43

our own pain and suffering by

1:07:45

how we talk to ourselves and

1:07:47

others about what is happening

1:07:49

with us. Mhmm. So can

1:07:52

you I feel like that is I I think a lot people

1:07:54

listening just arent. Oh, man.

1:07:56

Right. I've

1:07:58

I've I've quiver of second to arrows from

1:08:00

around each other Aundi third fourth and

1:08:02

fifth. Yes. So what I

1:08:05

I'll start by saying, this is not something that I

1:08:07

made up. This is a Buddhist principle. Aundi

1:08:09

so it's something that you can read lots about

1:08:11

and find other places. If you wanna dig into

1:08:14

it more, this is not something that I've,

1:08:16

you know, t m ed. It

1:08:19

is, it's so important to recognize

1:08:22

that there is normative degree of pain in

1:08:24

our existence of being human, and that that's

1:08:26

not actually something that we need to

1:08:28

escape from or be rescued

1:08:30

from. Although many of us have not

1:08:33

learned or been supported about in

1:08:35

how to how to be with the pain of being

1:08:37

human. So when the pain of viewing

1:08:39

human presents itself, you know, someone

1:08:41

we love to eyes, when there's an illness,

1:08:44

when get a cancer diagnosis, when

1:08:47

there's an injury, when you lose your job,

1:08:49

when you I mean, it could be any number of things

1:08:51

your kid gets sick, There's

1:08:54

a natural disaster. I mean, a pandemic.

1:08:56

Let's just throw that in the mix here. And

1:09:00

we have these things happen in our life.

1:09:03

As a means of at times feeling

1:09:05

responsible for them and trying to

1:09:09

really shame our way into change

1:09:11

shame our way or criticize our

1:09:13

way out of our suffering to

1:09:16

give ourselves the illusion that we have more power than

1:09:18

we do. We beat ourselves up.

1:09:20

We bring in another element

1:09:22

to kind of hopefully

1:09:25

create enough pressure that it helps us

1:09:27

get away from the suffering that we had

1:09:29

as if we were responsible for it. So the

1:09:31

thing that happens is the first arrow as you identified.

1:09:34

But how we respond to ourselves about it

1:09:36

is the second row. So if somebody

1:09:39

I just say, if I wake up Aundi

1:09:41

pain. My body is in pain because of

1:09:43

something I did or I'm sick or whatnot.

1:09:47

Shaming ourselves, adding

1:09:49

to the injury by shooting ourselves

1:09:51

again. That's the second arrow and that's something

1:09:53

that we're responsible for. We can't

1:09:55

necessarily always change what happens with the

1:09:57

first arrow. But the second neuro is something

1:10:00

that we can be responsible for. And

1:10:02

many of us have learned, like I said,

1:10:04

to respond to our pain in a way

1:10:06

that adds more pain to it. It's

1:10:09

like we we don't know how

1:10:11

to turn compassion towards

1:10:13

ourselves because maybe on some

1:10:15

level, we think you know, then

1:10:18

I'm gonna be lazy, right? Or then

1:10:20

I'm gonna be ineffective or then more

1:10:22

horrible things are gonna happen. But if I, you know,

1:10:24

really up the ante and squeeze myself

1:10:26

and add more criticism and shame, then I can,

1:10:28

what, stop the pandemic from happening?

1:10:31

Or you were, like, like, you

1:10:33

know, change the diagnosis or, like,

1:10:35

bring that loved one back? Like, it's

1:10:38

the second arrow has a function for

1:10:41

us, but it's ineffective and

1:10:43

kind of adds to our suffering. So

1:10:45

what we want to try to do is recognize that

1:10:47

there are hurts that happen,

1:10:50

but in instead of adding more pain to them,

1:10:53

we come to those hurts, with kindness,

1:10:55

with tenderness, with nurturance as

1:10:58

a way of supporting ourselves

1:11:00

through them as a way of healing

1:11:03

and and helping ourselves be kind.

1:11:05

And it's I think this Like,

1:11:08

I'm kind of alluding to it with my last statement

1:11:10

there, but it's really genuinely hard

1:11:13

to be deeply compassionate with other people

1:11:15

in their suffering. If we can't also do that

1:11:17

for ourselves, there tends to be this parallel

1:11:19

process between kind of what we

1:11:21

fuel ourselves with or how we talk to ourselves

1:11:24

Aundi what we ultimately believe about

1:11:26

other people and their pain too. And

1:11:28

so I think that when we turn towards our own

1:11:30

suffering with kindness

1:11:33

Aundi compassion and curiosity, what we're doing

1:11:35

is we're building the foundation for

1:11:37

more just Aundi loving world that it is not

1:11:39

just about us healing

1:11:42

ourselves, but ultimately telling

1:11:45

a new story about being human Aundi

1:11:48

creating a well of kindness inside

1:11:50

of ourselves can then spill out into

1:11:52

other people when we see their suffering too.

1:11:56

That is LinksThe entire that's

1:11:59

the that's the more concise

1:12:01

version of the whole thirteenth chapter

1:12:03

of my book, The Lazy GeneSway. Because

1:12:06

that's the final principle. It's to be kind to herself.

1:12:08

And And I

1:12:11

didn't realize how much I, personally,

1:12:13

for so long, had been hamstringing

1:12:16

my ability to be with people. In

1:12:19

their hurt and without judgment,

1:12:22

without trying to fix it because

1:12:24

I was always judging my own stuff.

1:12:27

I was always trying to fix my own problems. Like,

1:12:29

it is. It's it's it's

1:12:31

almost like a muscle that

1:12:33

we develop Aundi

1:12:36

it's such a strange thing that we all

1:12:38

so much wanna connect

1:12:41

with other people. We wanna be there for the people

1:12:43

that we love. Aundi it is

1:12:45

hard to sit with people in difficult situations.

1:12:47

It is. Mhmm. And

1:12:50

at the same time, we're using this

1:12:53

this muscle that we desire to have, but it

1:12:55

is so deeply atrophy because we never

1:12:57

use it on ourselves. And then

1:12:59

we're this is uncomfortable. This is uncomfortable.

1:13:01

Anything else to do? And we start to panic and then

1:13:03

we say things that we all say

1:13:06

the wrong things. We all say things that we have to

1:13:08

apologize for later. But

1:13:10

we I know for me, I felt like I was

1:13:12

consistently saying the wrong thing

1:13:14

out of protection for myself because I

1:13:16

didn't know how to be with people.

1:13:18

When things were hard because I didn't know how to be with myself

1:13:20

when things were hard. And so I

1:13:23

I just I really love the

1:13:25

simplicity of self

1:13:28

compassion and being kind

1:13:30

to yourself. And

1:13:32

that can happen in kind

1:13:34

of slow drips, in less

1:13:37

consequential ways, you know,

1:13:40

not sitting with a friend or a family member who just

1:13:42

had a cancer diagnosis, but maybe when

1:13:44

you like

1:13:46

me, pull up to a three way stop at a busy

1:13:49

target shopping center you yell

1:13:51

at someone because they don't know how to use the three

1:13:53

way stop. Aundi then to go, okay.

1:13:55

Hold, like, to take a night nap and go,

1:13:58

they're a person. I am a person. This

1:14:00

does not matter as much. Like, you know,

1:14:02

whatever it is. The other day, this

1:14:04

is my kids know how much I

1:14:06

hate this story. I optout because the other

1:14:08

day, my ten year old, he said, mom,

1:14:10

do you wanna go around the back way so that you can skip

1:14:12

the threesome? Aundi as a whole, bless

1:14:15

you, my sleep bed. I was

1:14:17

like, you're so smart, buddy. Let's do

1:14:19

that. Let's not even put mommy to sit

1:14:21

straight. Right. Where she's

1:14:23

gonna have an exercise so compassion

1:14:25

for making a bad call. That reminds

1:14:27

me of that parable. Like, you know, I walked down the street.

1:14:30

I fell on the hole. I walked on the street. I fell on the hole.

1:14:32

I walked down the street. I see the hole. I

1:14:34

walked down the street. I see I tried to walk around

1:14:36

filed hole. I walked down another

1:14:38

street. It's just

1:14:40

it's just pick a different street. It's just

1:14:42

different street. To do. But that we can

1:14:44

actually pick different streets. Kindly

1:14:47

-- Mhmm. -- that are simpler.

1:14:50

And -- Right. -- like I said, less consequential. Like,

1:14:52

you don't have dinner. You don't know what dinner's gonna

1:14:54

be at five thirty. Yeah. Like, don't be yourself

1:14:56

a lot about that. Right. Just pull out hot

1:14:58

dogs. It's gonna be okay. You know, like,

1:15:00

it's it's it's -- Yeah. -- Aundi the more that you

1:15:02

practice that kindness, in those

1:15:05

smaller spaces, the

1:15:08

less foreign it feels when you're in -- Mhmm. -- complicated

1:15:11

157. let's flip this on its head

1:15:13

too and think about if what's

1:15:15

happening internally is spilling out,

1:15:18

then it gives us a

1:15:20

kind of a legend, like, think of a legend

1:15:22

on a map 217 understand

1:15:25

why some of the people who hurt us treat

1:15:27

us the way that they do. Because they're also

1:15:30

showing us what it's like internally for

1:15:32

them. So if somebody is

1:15:34

really, really cruel for us Aundi they're the one yelling

1:15:36

at us, at the three way stop at

1:15:38

Target. Mhmm. Mhmm.

1:15:41

Then we can look at that Aundi we can easily

1:15:43

go ouch, like, oh, that's about

1:15:45

me. Or say,

1:15:48

oh, I wonder if that's how they talk to themselves inside

1:15:50

too. Like, oh, I think

1:15:52

that they're just showing me that inside hasn't

1:15:54

always been a safe place for them to be too.

1:15:57

And then when we kind of have in this kind of

1:15:59

psychedelic way to spin out where we see

1:16:01

those people, you know, connected

1:16:03

to the people who raise them the people who raise

1:16:06

them and the people who raise them, we

1:16:08

see how this person who's

1:16:10

yelling at us at, you know,

1:16:12

in the grocery store or you

1:16:14

know, is being cruel to us on Twitter or whatever

1:16:17

the thing is, like, oh, they're doing

1:16:19

the thing that was done to them. Oh,

1:16:22

and all of a sudden, it's easier to engender

1:16:24

compassion. Like, no wonder they're treating

1:16:26

me this way. Yeah. Because this is the way they

1:16:28

were treated, and they didn't deserve that. And no,

1:16:30

it's not my responsibility to fix them.

1:16:33

But I can see

1:16:35

that I don't have to add, here it is,

1:16:38

the second arrow to this situation,

1:16:41

I can add compassion to them and

1:16:43

to me because this is just

1:16:45

one of those things where hurt is playing out

1:16:47

in life. And not necessarily,

1:16:50

you know, a proof of my badness,

1:16:53

that here's this person who is interacting with

1:16:55

me because it's the only way that they know how.

1:16:58

But I don't have to beat myself up about

1:17:00

it. You're so smart. Oh,

1:17:05

I love that you're like Wait. What? You're

1:17:10

so good at words and making things

1:17:12

make sense. Oh, I feel like you were really,

1:17:14

really doing the heavy lifting today. I was like, oh,

1:17:16

you said it you said it better than I

1:17:19

say. I there was actually well, see, I don't

1:17:21

need the second era of my self. At one point, I did

1:17:23

kind of when I was

1:17:25

saying words Aundi was like, I love that I'm trying to

1:17:27

carry on a conversation with this

1:17:29

doctor. With this amazing

1:17:31

therapist. Like, I know what I'm talking about. And then

1:17:33

I was like, you know what? It's okay. I've had

1:17:35

lived I've I've had lived experiences.

1:17:38

I am I have been told it was a very

1:17:40

healing moment actually. I had a therapist,

1:17:42

Aundi Kolber, who was on the show last year,

1:17:45

and she said that my work was

1:17:47

trauma informed. Aundi I was

1:17:49

like, oh, my gosh. Like, that

1:17:51

was such a a truly,

1:17:54

like, healing redemptive thing

1:17:56

for her to say. Aundi anyway, so I that

1:17:58

was one of the things I just had to stop, like,

1:18:00

you know, you can can have

1:18:02

this conversation. Oh,

1:18:05

you have to set a second arrow. It says

1:18:07

Oh, my goodness. Well, it's

1:18:09

great for me to learn from you, and there's something

1:18:11

as you know writing a book and putting it onto

1:18:14

the world when people interact

1:18:16

with it Aundi kind

1:18:18

of launch it back to you in a way.

1:18:21

You see things that you didn't see even as you were

1:18:23

writing it. And so I wanna say, not only

1:18:25

are you left out this conversation, thank you for teaching

1:18:27

me. Thank you for teaching me about this work, about

1:18:29

what matters about it, about how it lands

1:18:31

for you, about the areas that I

1:18:33

can expand on even more. I

1:18:36

feel grateful for for how I've

1:18:38

learned from you in this

1:18:40

realization. It's very, very kind.

1:18:42

Mhmm. So guys

1:18:46

Hillary is living in a cave. She will not

1:18:48

talk to any of us again. I can't read

1:18:50

her book. I'm

1:18:53

kidding. But the book is called The

1:18:55

Wisdom of Your Body by

1:18:57

Doctor Hillary McBride. And

1:19:00

it really is one of those

1:19:03

slow, digestible. Like, you're gonna

1:19:06

wanna take your time with it. Like, I was finding

1:19:08

myself zipping through, and

1:19:10

then stop zipping. Because I was like, no.

1:19:12

No. No. I don't wanna zip here. I wanna sit with this. It's

1:19:14

there's just so much -- Wow. -- help

1:19:16

in there that feel your metaphors

1:19:19

are so good. I wrote I've just made a list

1:19:21

of many of them, and they're just

1:19:24

for use, like, defenses or, like, winter

1:19:26

coats. Thoughts like, blossoms on a

1:19:28

flower. Like, there were all of the the front

1:19:30

lawn one. There were all these things that just help

1:19:32

help this sort of large,

1:19:36

often overwhelming concept

1:19:39

of self awareness

1:19:41

and therapy and when people say the

1:19:43

phrase doing the work, you know. Right.

1:19:46

That if you've never done that kind of work,

1:19:49

it's hard to know where to begin. Right.

1:19:51

Aundi it can feel very academic, it

1:19:53

can feel very overwhelming, it

1:19:55

can feel almost in many ways very

1:19:57

disembodied because it's just information

1:20:00

being given to you. And so I just

1:20:02

love how human you've made this book

1:20:04

with with the use of metaphor, with

1:20:07

just your your own personal stories, which

1:20:09

are really beautifully written and very wonderfully

1:20:11

shared. And so it's just a delightful

1:20:17

tool, everyone. Mhmm. So

1:20:19

-- Gosh. -- think the wisdom

1:20:21

of your body, finding healing, wholeness,

1:20:23

and connection through embodied

1:20:25

living. Thank you, Kendra. Thank you for

1:20:27

your kindness. And I think I mean, you captured

1:20:29

really what I want is is

1:20:32

not for this to be another intellectual

1:20:34

exercise, another book to kind of a

1:20:36

mass knowledge that stays in

1:20:38

our already overly

1:20:41

saturated brains. And

1:20:44

I want it to be an invitation to come

1:20:46

home to your self. I want it to be an invitation

1:20:49

for us all to be reinhabiting

1:20:52

our bodies in a way that allows

1:20:55

us to be safe with ourselves,

1:20:59

gentle and loving towards the people around

1:21:01

us, connected to the earth, ultimately

1:21:04

moving into position or space in our

1:21:06

lives where we are flourishing because we are

1:21:09

more whole than when we started. And that doesn't

1:21:11

necessarily happen by memorizing some

1:21:13

things that happen in a book. So

1:21:15

I really hope that whoever you are

1:21:17

as you're listening to this when the book finds its way

1:21:19

to you, that you do read it slowly

1:21:22

Aundi you listen kind of like Kendra

1:21:24

was doing with her journaling exercise,

1:21:26

you notice what happens in your body

1:21:29

as your reading Aundi you think of that as really good

1:21:31

information that you can get

1:21:33

used to get to know yourself better instead

1:21:35

of just a way to know

1:21:38

my ideas more. I want for you to

1:21:40

be returned to YourselfEpisode

1:21:45

you so much for listening to my

1:21:47

conversation with Hillary, and

1:21:49

I highly highly encourage you to

1:21:51

get her book. The wisdom of your body.

1:21:54

It is something I will return to again

1:21:56

and again as I learn more about

1:21:58

what it means to live in my body. As I am,

1:22:01

in a way that's whole and expansive living

1:22:04

in the house, not just in the arent yard.

1:22:06

If you would like to dig even more into this

1:22:08

topic, about your your body, its

1:22:10

appearance, its existence, a few other episodes

1:22:12

we met when I listened to are episodes two

1:22:15

seventeen and two eighteen, a two part

1:22:17

episode series called, let's talk

1:22:19

about your body. Episode one fifty

1:22:21

seven called, what does it mean to take care of

1:22:23

yourself? Episode two thirty,

1:22:26

how to feel like a person with Aundi Kolber,

1:22:28

which was another conversation with another

1:22:31

therapist focused on our relationship

1:22:33

with stress. All of those are great episodes

1:22:35

if you wanna go a little deeper in your earbuds,

1:22:38

but please check out Hilary's book,

1:22:40

the wisdom of your body. If you enjoy

1:22:42

this podcast and you have never left a review

1:22:44

on Apple Podcasts, would you consider doing that

1:22:47

reviews as you know help new

1:22:49

listeners discover the show? That

1:22:51

the biggest LinksThe biggest thing that you also

1:22:53

often do is share these episodes with

1:22:55

your real life people. I see a lot of you share

1:22:57

episodes on your socials, which I deeply appreciate

1:23:00

it is amazing. Please thank you for doing that

1:23:02

and continue to do that. But also, I

1:23:04

get so many d m's that say something like

1:23:06

my friend has been telling me about your podcast for weeks

1:23:08

Aundi finally started listening and I'm loving it.

1:23:10

A lot of you are that friend, hounding your

1:23:12

other friends to listen to the show or

1:23:14

read the book or whatever, and I am just immensely

1:23:17

grateful. So thank you for that. Alright.

1:23:19

Until next time, be a genius about the things

1:23:21

that matter lazy about the things that don't.

1:23:24

I'm Kendra. We'll see you on Monday.