0:01

So welcome to the Lead Well podcast . This

0:03

is the podcast where we interview leaders who

0:05

are leading well . We

0:07

get them to share what they're doing and how

0:10

they're doing it so that it can help you

0:12

lead your business and people

0:14

well . Bruce

0:29

, thank you for joining us on the Leadwell

0:31

Podcast . I am so excited to have you here

0:33

today .

0:35

Jon , thanks for the invite . This

0:37

will be a fun conversation .

0:39

Okay , anywhere that I go with you , everybody

0:41

knows you and everybody knows

0:44

the DBD group . But just in case someone

0:46

listening to this podcast doesn't yet

0:48

know you or the DBD group

0:50

, can you give us just the smidgen of you

0:52

and of the DBD group so that they

0:54

know how great you all are like the

0:56

rest of us know ?

0:58

Wow , well , that's just like my mom

1:00

wrote it . That's great . You

1:02

know , we're a multidisciplinary

1:05

consultancy that helps nonprofits

1:07

and we really try

1:09

to partner with folks

1:12

and help them thrive

1:14

and help them make their communities thrive . A

1:16

big part of our work is fundraising

1:19

, but we have strategic planning and finance

1:21

and marketing and just

1:24

do you know ? A host of things to

1:26

come next to our

1:28

clients and make them better . We've

1:31

got I guess we just hired our 37th

1:34

person in DBD

1:36

and truly have a national

1:38

footprint .

1:40

Cool , and where is DBD

1:42

located exactly ?

1:44

Well , that's a great . It's

1:46

all over the country . Jon , we're a non

1:48

. I guess we don't have

1:50

a headquarters , if you will

1:52

. Technically , I'm

1:55

in Chicago and that's where home is for

1:57

me , but we have our

2:00

folks at DBD all across the country

2:02

, so we are a total

2:04

remote company .

2:07

Oh , my goodness . Okay , so it was

2:10

a tee up and a lead in , because I think the stat

2:12

that I saw from you all is that DBD is

2:15

headquarters in 21 different states , right

2:17

when you have people located

2:19

all over the place , and that is really why

2:21

we are connecting today , because

2:24

, bruce , you and DBD

2:26

are so unique

2:28

. I've been able to experience it

2:30

myself , which was amazing but the

2:32

people , the culture , all

2:35

of this that you have done without

2:37

a central location which just speaks to

2:40

folks that have remote work or any

2:42

of us that do multi-site operations

2:44

. So start to talk to us about

2:46

why was this even important

2:48

to you and why have you been paying attention

2:50

to the culture for the

2:53

entire existence of DBD for over

2:55

a decade and a half , almost

2:57

two decades now .

2:59

Yeah , well , I think we agree that culture

3:01

eats strategy every

3:03

day of the week , right ? So I don't

3:06

care if you're brick and mortar headquartered , if

3:08

you're all coming into the same office or

3:11

if you're remote . I think

3:13

culture is something that you just absolutely

3:15

have to focus on . Culture and trust are

3:18

two key things . You

3:22

know we were with Zoom

3:24

before . Zoom was cool , in fact , it

3:26

was when Zoom was free , Jon

3:28

, back in the day , and it

3:31

didn't seem to count in consulting

3:33

as a day of consulting until

3:37

you know , the pandemic hit , and

3:39

coming out of the pandemic

3:41

, people seem to . You know

3:43

, our grandparents , right , all learned how to

3:45

use Zoom and our

3:47

clients did , and even

3:50

our multi-site clients

3:52

I've seen they're requiring

3:54

their folks to

3:57

come to the central office less and

3:59

they're investing in some technology

4:01

so they can connect . But

4:04

I think this notion of culture is

4:07

really important and I think there's

4:09

some things in a remote situation

4:12

, when we're totally remote from we're in almost

4:14

our 19th year of doing

4:16

this , that there's some learnings

4:18

for us and it'll

4:20

be fun to talk through some of that today .

4:24

It'll be fun to talk through

4:26

some of that today , and

4:28

here's why Because

4:34

what you , your team , all of DBD has built and stewarded just you shared this with me , and

4:36

I just can't help but smile . There was a trust

4:38

assessment that you all did and

4:41

, in the best way possible , you

4:43

broke the assessment because you all were such

4:45

an outlier . So when

4:47

we start asking you , when I'm about to start

4:49

asking you , what are some of the things that DBD

4:52

does , how do you do this ? It's

4:54

not that you all are just

4:56

a little bit better than average , it's that this is

4:58

a complete outlier , and

5:00

I know that you're not going to take the

5:02

compliment , but I want you to have it anyways . So

5:05

tell me some of the things , those

5:07

values , those axioms

5:09

that really start to make

5:11

DBD who and what it is .

5:14

We started to thinking , thought about just

5:17

as a firm . There

5:20

was just me and then another

5:22

person joined in , a third and a fourth and a fifth

5:24

and there was about six or seven of us

5:27

and I think we spent , Jon , probably

5:29

the first four or five years of

5:31

just earning how to consult quite honestly

5:33

and to show up in the appropriate

5:36

way for our clients , et cetera . But

5:38

we started to find that

5:41

we started to settle on some

5:43

axioms or some truths that

5:46

we just knew worked and

5:48

back in the day we weren't

5:51

smart enough to write this stuff down

5:53

and really

5:55

drive it . And then , at about the 10-year mark

5:58

and we started doing , I

6:00

think , a little better job with communicating

6:05

really concisely with

6:08

our clients . They started to

6:11

use our axioms back and

6:14

that was when I knew it started to get deep

6:18

into our consulting culture

6:20

among ourselves but also how

6:22

we use that language with our clients . So

6:24

things like leadership is everything

6:26

. We talk about that

6:28

all the time , that within the firm , leadership

6:31

is everything . But when you gather a volunteer

6:33

group , when you're gathering your staff

6:36

team , if you don't have the right leaders

6:38

around the table , either paid

6:40

or volunteer , it's

6:42

really hard to get traction right

6:45

In our little world and

6:47

people would say you're moving fast and

6:50

I'd say we have a bias for action and

6:54

that started to stick . And

6:56

we talk about our bias for action

6:58

because we show up and we warn our

7:00

clients that we have a bias for

7:02

action and we're going to move forward , and we warn our clients that we

7:04

have a bias for action and we're going to move forward . We have another one in fundraising called

7:07

activity equals results . Is

7:09

that ? You know , if you're

7:11

not out there and doing it , you can't

7:13

expect the results that you hope to get . Another

7:16

one , especially with board development , is

7:18

don't settle . We used to

7:20

make don't settle pins for

7:23

folks and that , as we recruit

7:25

board members , do not settle . These

7:27

are the most precious chairs and

7:29

leaders . Right Leadership

7:34

is everything . To have those right leaders around the table . You know we need to put a face

7:36

to the case . We talk about vision , leaking

7:38

and big L leaders and

7:40

dollars and change and

7:43

blue flame case , and there's about

7:45

18 of these or so , probably too

7:47

many . But how

7:50

we then drove that into culture , Jon

7:52

, is that as we hire folks , I

7:55

sit down with them for a half day and

7:58

we go through our axioms . In fact , we've

8:00

got this thing on everybody's

8:02

wall and it's hard to see

8:04

, oh my goodness , I absolutely love that .

8:06

So you have it in all 21 different HQs

8:09

around the nation .

8:10

Well , we yeah , we include it in our right

8:12

, in our work with , with each of our um

8:15

, our team members and I have it blown

8:17

up on a big um like

8:20

a big , gigantic poster board and

8:26

when they come in and spend some time with me , time with me at our home , I have it

8:28

on a big easel and it just sits there and I start to

8:31

unpack the culture

8:33

of DBD through our axioms and

8:36

different axioms came

8:38

at different times of the

8:41

company's history , with different folks

8:43

joining us and making

8:45

contributions to those axioms

8:47

, and I'm able to weave the

8:50

culture of DBD , what's important

8:52

to us , how do we show

8:54

up for ourselves and

8:57

how do we show up for our clients through

8:59

these silly axioms

9:02

. And I think someday

9:04

there's probably going to be a book about some of these axioms

9:06

and how they work . But

9:10

it's just been a joy to

9:13

even see our very recent

9:16

hires using that

9:18

language and having it come

9:20

off the tip of

9:23

their tongue without a lot

9:25

of thinking , Because

9:27

six months ago we spent

9:29

a day together and

9:31

turned our phones off , John , and

9:33

slowed the roll .

9:36

An entire remote organization got together

9:38

in person and turned their phones off .

9:40

And started to think through some of this . So

9:42

for us . Axioms

9:45

are a big part of how

9:47

do we teach culture , and

9:50

if culture is healthy

9:52

, we can take on some of

9:54

these impossible goals .

9:57

I love that and I also love how you

9:59

visualize it , right , you and I

10:01

, I know , have both seen and follow

10:03

some Andy Stanley Stanley

10:05

leadership stuff and he says you know

10:07

it's got to be seen in the hall before it's on the wall

10:10

. You've got it in both places

10:12

and you use other

10:14

visual cues to help

10:16

with this , and I love the one . They're

10:19

your trading cards , right , your baseball

10:21

cards , and , for those that are on video , bruce has

10:23

them , he can show it to you . But talk

10:26

to us about these cards and

10:29

kind of what goes behind those

10:32

pieces , right , what's actually on there ? How

10:34

do they help ? And then this visualization

10:37

and these tangible pieces that you're starting

10:39

to give people , especially the fact that they're

10:42

not together most of the time .

10:44

I bet , yeah , it's been fun . And

10:46

again , just as we try

10:48

to connect

10:51

with each other as team members

10:53

and show up in authentic

10:55

ways with each other , how

10:58

do we start to make this team start

11:01

to kind of pull the

11:03

, you know , pull the layers back right ? And

11:05

what really makes us tick ? And

11:07

one of the things that we've taken

11:09

is Pat Liancioni's Working

11:12

Genius instrument and

11:14

we're big fans of Working Genius

11:16

and it just really crystallizes

11:18

, right folks , and where

11:20

are your strengths ? And

11:23

then where are you ? Know ? What

11:25

he would say is what's your working frustration

11:28

? And so

11:31

, as we started to assign

11:33

work long ago , when

11:35

there was just three of us , it was like who cares

11:37

, let's go . But then

11:40

we got 12 , and then we got 20 , and we

11:42

have 30 and now we have almost 40 . Is

11:45

there perhaps a more thoughtful way

11:47

to

11:49

assign work ? So we looked

11:51

at Working Genius and Michelle Goodrich on our

11:54

team is certified with

11:56

Pat Lencioni and helps make this

11:58

come alive for us . But why

12:00

wouldn't we take this into consideration

12:02

when assigning teams for

12:05

clients ? And if

12:07

you have , I'm a galvanizer

12:09

, right , I can sell a concept , but

12:14

my working frustration , john , is tenacity

12:16

.

12:17

Oh no , you and I cannot pair up . One

12:19

because we're going to match but two , because

12:21

we're going to do the same things and not want to do the

12:23

same thing .

12:24

But it would make great sense if we lived in the same

12:26

state and we had a client in Texas

12:28

. Why wouldn't we go , when

12:30

, in fact , maybe it would be far more

12:33

effective to have somebody else

12:35

partner with you , because

12:37

you and I would just we'd be galvanizing

12:39

everybody and we wouldn't be getting anything done because

12:42

we had low , low tenacity

12:44

. And so we've trained towards

12:46

this . But these , these

12:48

baseball cards

12:50

, as we call them , on the front of it it's

12:52

when were you drafted ? So the first

12:55

circle is when you join the team

12:57

. So , and then

12:59

, what's your Myers-Briggs ? We still kind of look

13:01

the team , so you know . And then , what's your Myers-Briggs

13:03

? We still kind of look . We all did a lot of Myers-Briggs back in the day and it's a it's . It's a great

13:05

way to look at it in a different way . We've

13:08

got their name and their , their , their photo

13:10

. But then the other side of the card , john , we've

13:13

got , in their own words , how

13:16

would you put your working genius

13:18

in action ? And

13:22

they talk about how I love to operate on the edge . Or , you know , I like to seek

13:24

out the right leader first , or

13:26

I need to make sure that we've got

13:28

our date set in order for me

13:30

to do our best work and , in

13:32

their own language , they're making this

13:35

come alive . And then we've

13:37

got the working genius and

13:39

then the working frustration at the bottom . And

13:41

then we've got the working genius and then the working frustration at the bottom

13:43

. This has been such a joy to put all of this

13:45

on what we call our map , our DBD

13:48

map , and we're

13:50

naturally grouped right

13:52

and

14:02

we can now thoughtfully say all right , if we really want to have a high performing team

14:04

leaning into each other's strengths , uh , how about , uh , we be a little more thoughtful

14:06

? Uh , that putting people together than just who wants

14:08

to work together or who lives

14:10

in the same state , uh , rather

14:12

, why don't we take our , our collective strengths

14:15

and put them next to each other ? And

14:17

I think we've all been on

14:19

a team before that we

14:22

just find , oh , we're just stuck . It's

14:25

like we got great ideas , but we just can't

14:27

get out of the door . And

14:29

you know , or that person at

14:31

the very end says , but what about

14:34

? And that wonderer

14:36

drives me

14:38

crazy , right , why are you driving

14:40

me crazy when , in fact

14:43

, it's all in

14:45

the way that we're beautifully wired , and if

14:47

we understand that you start

14:49

to use these as nouns

14:52

and verbs when

14:54

we're together and so I'm teeing right now and

14:57

just give me permission to tea and

14:59

it's just been a you

15:02

know , I would say , a breakthrough way

15:04

for us to assign work

15:06

and , more importantly , better

15:08

understand this group

15:10

of 37 people that have come together

15:12

for DBB .

15:14

It is awesome . I even love how you just weave

15:17

beautifully and naturally

15:19

in there to when they got drafted . We've

15:23

beautifully and naturally in there to when they got drafted that even

15:25

that says something about just the pride of the organization of being able to

15:27

know that this is a special and unique place

15:29

and that we

15:31

want you here . Right , you don't draft people

15:33

if you don't want them , and so I think that is

15:35

really really quite cool and

15:37

unique . You and I both

15:40

also know that we can

15:42

do a lot of these things , we can say

15:44

a lot of these things , and still , when

15:47

we move into action , they

15:50

start to fall apart . And you have

15:52

this . It's not a flow

15:55

chart or a flow map , but

15:57

there are some things that you do before

15:59

you do other things and you think about

16:02

this , specifically in leadership

16:04

, but also leading remotely . Can you

16:06

walk us through what are the three things you do

16:08

before you do the other three things

16:10

and why that's important ?

16:13

And again , I think that if you're getting

16:15

together all the time , this

16:17

is as effective . This

16:25

is as effective and if you're in the same space and all you have

16:28

to do is go up a floor . But for us , and as we start

16:30

to try to come together with decisions as

16:33

a firm , to to understand where

16:35

folks are , I think we need to over-communicate

16:38

a bit when we're in a remote setting

16:40

and and explain this is

16:42

setting and explain this is how we're setting it up . When you think

16:44

of a regular meeting , you got a lot of that

16:46

chit-chat . You walk in

16:48

and you're having your donut

16:50

and your cup of coffee and you're kind

16:52

of setting the stage right and the leader sets

16:54

the stage for that

16:57

. I think in a remote setting

16:59

we try to actually have

17:01

the meeting set up five , six minutes

17:03

early so as people come in

17:05

to the meeting you can start doing

17:08

that chat like you normally would . I've

17:10

never been to a meeting that we never said a word

17:12

. We're all around the table and then they say go

17:14

Right , and it just turns

17:17

on and it's nights of the round table . It's

17:19

shocking . And so

17:21

we try to budget some time on the front end

17:24

but we also budget time on the back

17:26

end . It's very unusual

17:28

for everybody just to vaporize at the

17:30

end of a meeting and

17:32

time to say , hey , can we peel off

17:35

and talk about , or how's

17:37

your daughter , or those

17:39

, and we let that go . Sometimes it's

17:41

10 , 15 , 20 minutes after the meeting

17:43

that there's still a couple people

17:45

still in the

17:47

remote meeting having a discussion

17:50

, and I think that's natural , right , that's

17:52

how we communicate and

17:54

it's important to respect the

17:58

digital , I guess , meeting space that

18:00

we're in , right , as humans

18:02

we just don't turn it on and off

18:05

. It's more like a dimmer switch . But the

18:07

thing that I have found as a leader is

18:10

the importance of understanding , visualizing

18:13

and describing . Understanding

18:17

, understanding the topic

18:19

, the issue you name it , visualizing

18:22

that and we're a visual

18:24

bunch as well , by the way and

18:27

then describing the issue

18:29

at hand and to have some

18:32

agreement on that in a remote

18:34

setting before we lead

18:36

, direct and assess . We

18:39

are as a consulting group . Go

18:41

to lead , direct and assess

18:43

is our natural DNA .

18:46

Especially if you have a bias for action . All of those

18:48

are very kind of- .

18:49

Oh , I mean we could have this meeting in 10 minutes , right

18:51

, and just let's go

18:53

. So , if we've

18:55

recognized that , that's our kind

18:58

of that reflex that

19:00

we have . So naturally

19:03

as a leader , I kind of like to process

19:05

quickly . And we hired

19:07

one of our key leadership team

19:09

members and they pulled me aside after the

19:12

first day being with the team and

19:15

he said you know , bruce , this is awesome , but

19:18

if you expect

19:20

me in real time to

19:23

provide you the very best feedback

19:25

that I can muster , I

19:28

am not that guy

19:30

. But if

19:32

you let me sleep on that , I'll come

19:34

back the next day and have a beautiful , elegant

19:36

solution . But

19:39

don't judge me for me being quiet

19:41

, okay , as we process

19:43

this . And it was a reminder

19:45

to me oh , here's how we process

19:48

, here's how we different back to , uh

19:51

, back to our working genius , right

19:53

, but he could pull

19:55

me aside because we were

19:57

live in that meeting , right , we were

19:59

together . And so if

20:01

, if we can slow the roll

20:03

a little bit and make sure

20:05

that that we understand

20:08

the issues , we visualize them and we describe

20:10

them before we

20:12

roll into leading , directing and assessing

20:15

, that's served us really

20:17

well and , frankly , it is

20:19

really great . It's a great competency

20:22

in consulting , in leadership

20:24

and

20:29

consulting and leadership to make sure that , in any of the teams that

20:31

you lead , you focus on the first three before the execution

20:33

of the last three .

20:35

That's right , it's all clarity and

20:37

alignment before moving into

20:39

exactly what you said execute action

20:42

, go get it done right , charge the hill

20:44

oh my goodness , that is , that's phenomenal

20:46

. So just for everybody , let's kind

20:48

of recap so far we've had axioms

20:51

, kind of truth , self-evident truths

20:53

, that DBD has a

20:56

high , high focus on culture and

20:59

onboarding to that culture , playing

21:01

cards and then how we

21:03

do this regardless , but especially

21:05

in a remote setting , so that we can build in

21:07

understanding and processing before

21:09

we move into action . Before I

21:11

ask you one last question what

21:14

else do we need to know about a

21:16

culture of purpose and

21:19

people and high performance

21:21

, especially in a remote environment ?

21:24

You know , and I think that if

21:27

you don't know where you're going , you

21:30

probably aren't going to get there or get there

21:33

as quickly or

21:35

as thoughtfully as

21:38

you'd like . And I think the thing

21:40

that we didn't talk about was our own strategic plan

21:42

, and we work very

21:44

hard to say what's

21:46

the next three years , what is that

21:48

looking like ? And we have

21:50

, you know , our vision

21:52

is thriving nonprofits and thriving communities

21:55

, but then , underneath

21:57

that , we say what does that mean for our

21:59

world ? What does that mean for our

22:01

people , our DBDers , what

22:04

does that mean for our systems ? What

22:06

does that mean for our brand , what

22:09

does it mean for our products and

22:11

, ultimately , what does it mean for our clients

22:14

? And we

22:16

use that circle

22:18

and talk about in

22:20

our plan . Let's

22:23

be very mindful about each

22:25

of those buckets , if you will , as

22:28

we look towards the future , and we

22:30

work hard to make

22:33

sure that that plan isn't a plan that

22:35

just sits on the shelf right . We

22:37

celebrate the strategic plan and

22:40

just let it go . It's

22:42

something that we try to in

22:44

between our two live visits every

22:46

year , uh , we bring folks together

22:49

. Every month , we have a , have a zoom uh

22:51

or a video . You know uh , meeting

22:53

and uh , one of those

22:55

, uh , is a 90 minute

22:57

zoom hour and a half , the other

22:59

is a three hour zoom Wow

23:01

. And the three hour zoom is when we

23:04

, uh , we teach a concept . But

23:06

in both of those we have breakout sessions

23:09

. We try not to do a bunch of give

23:11

and get . We

23:13

start it with

23:15

a thought for the day and

23:17

we always end our sessions

23:19

with hope , whether

23:21

that's live session or Zoom

23:24

the hope . Right , we don't

23:26

need to leave our clients , john , with a

23:28

to-do list , or at least just

23:30

a to-do list . That's overwhelming

23:33

. But if we can leave our clients

23:35

with here's the next steps but ultimately

23:38

leave them with hope , that's

23:41

going to make this consulting

23:43

thing special and really

23:45

quite , I

23:48

think , rewarding . And if we turn

23:50

that and then look at it ourselves every

23:53

single meeting at DBD , we will end with

23:55

hope . And if we're a hopeful

23:57

bunch , I think that we can

23:59

get a lot done 100%

24:02

.

24:03

Before I ask you my question about leading

24:05

. Well , where can people go to

24:07

connect with you , bruce , with

24:09

DBD , with the work that you do to

24:12

come alongside ? Maybe they're

24:14

a nonprofit , but they want

24:16

to thrive , they want to connect with you . Where do they go ?

24:27

group is our website and we're proud of that . We

24:29

spend a lot of time being a remote . It's our living

24:31

room , right , and that's all we have , and so we work hard to make that

24:33

as good of an experience as possible

24:35

. You can click down and learn

24:38

about our folks . You can drill

24:40

through and get

24:42

email addresses

24:44

and reach out that way . But

24:46

dbdgroup and we'd love

24:48

to learn more about

24:51

how we could help you Awesome

24:54

.

24:54

Y'all should check it out . Dbdgroup

24:57

and Bruce . On this podcast , we

24:59

bring in leaders who are leading

25:01

well and would

25:03

be remiss if I did not ask you what

25:06

does it mean to you to lead well

25:08

?

25:10

You know , john , I look at our mission first , and

25:13

when I look at our mission , it's

25:15

by inspiring hope , generosity and

25:17

excellence . We empower

25:19

nonprofits to thrive . And

25:23

I have found that , if I can

25:25

focus on our amazing team at DBD

25:27

, my definition of leadership

25:30

is if I can make our team

25:32

stronger , smarter , if

25:34

we can laugh together a

25:36

lot , it's have fun

25:38

and get a lot done and

25:47

serve that up with large doses of hope , inspiration and a positive culture . I find

25:49

that they can leave with their buckets full

25:52

and go change

25:54

the world through our clients and that's

25:56

how I define , I guess , how I approach this work

25:58

with DVD .

26:00

I love it . Great leaders doing

26:02

that , having fun , getting lots done , inspiring

26:05

and helping people achieve is

26:07

definitely a recipe for leading well

26:09

. Bruce , thank you so much for being here today

26:11

. It has been an absolute joy . My friend

26:13

is so good to see you and we are

26:15

better for listening to this . I'm going

26:17

back and making notes and I have a feeling I'm going

26:19

to be building myself some baseball

26:22

cards here pretty quick and

26:27

for everybody who is listening . Thank you so much for tuning in , check out dbdgroup

26:29

and until next time , be well , lead

26:31

on and God bless .