0:00

The single biggest misconception about leadership is

0:02

that leadership is primarily what we do

0:04

outwardly with and to other people. And

0:07

really it's... There's

0:09

these different stages of leadership. Leading

0:11

other people starts with being able

0:13

to lead yourself. The best and

0:16

worst parts about being a CEO.

0:18

When groups of people are in

0:20

that process of unlocking their best,

0:22

special things just happen. I kind

0:24

of won everything I wanted to

0:27

win. I didn't realize there's whatever

0:29

I'm looking for, it isn't here.

0:31

What is the most important thing

0:33

about leadership? Oh man, that's

0:35

a great question. Welcome

0:40

to The Learning Leader

0:42

Show, presented by Insight Global.

0:44

I am your host, Ryan

0:46

Hawk. Thank you so much for being here.

0:49

Text Hawk, 266866 to become part

0:51

of Mindful Monday. You, along with

0:53

tens of thousands of other learning

0:55

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0:57

will receive a carefully curated email

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from me each Monday morning to

1:01

help you start your week off

1:03

right. You'll also receive details about

1:06

how my book, The Score That

1:08

Matters, will help you become a

1:10

more effective leader if you text

1:12

Hawk to 66866. Now

1:15

on to tonight's featured leader,

1:18

Mike Beckham, is co-founder and

1:20

CEO of Simple Modern, a

1:22

global producer of premium drinkware

1:25

and lifestyle products founded in

1:27

2015 and based

1:29

in Oklahoma. Simple Modern currently generates

1:32

a nine-figure annual revenue and is

1:34

committed to generosity, donating at least

1:36

10% of annual

1:38

profits to non-profit organizations. Under

1:41

Mike's leadership, the company has grown into

1:43

a category leader for Amazon, Target,

1:46

Walmart and Sam's Club, serving more

1:48

than 20 million customers worldwide. But

1:51

Mike's purpose is far deeper

1:53

than selling great drinkware and

1:55

lifestyle products. During this conversation,

1:57

we discuss an amazing story.

2:00

about the importance of taking

2:02

initiative and how doing this changed

2:04

Mike's life. Then he describes

2:06

his favorite marketing pitch ever which

2:09

was a scene from Mad Men

2:11

and how understanding it will

2:13

make you a better

2:15

leader. Mike shares why he

2:17

has no desire to sell his

2:19

company even though he would earn

2:22

hundreds of millions of dollars to

2:24

do so. We cover that and

2:26

much much more. Mike is a

2:29

very thoughtful and intentional leader. I

2:31

think you're going to find this both

2:33

entertaining and useful. Ladies

2:35

and gentlemen please enjoy Mike

2:37

Beckham. Mike

2:41

it's great to have you here on the Learning Leader

2:43

Show. Welcome. Hi thanks for having

2:45

me. Great to be with you. Alright so

2:47

I want to go back years ago. You're

2:49

a college student. There was a class that

2:52

you really wanted to take called Freedom in

2:54

Greece. Now it was the most

2:56

popular class at where you

2:58

went to school and you decided

3:00

to show up on the first day of

3:02

class even though you weren't able to get

3:05

enrolled in it. If you could convince the

3:07

professor to give you a special exception which

3:09

they called a pink slip then you could

3:11

take the course. So you show up at the classroom,

3:14

it's packed with students, every

3:16

seat is full and hundreds of

3:18

people stood around the edge of the

3:21

room. The professor, a

3:23

legend apparently named Rufus Fears,

3:26

started the lecture and the first thing out of his

3:28

mouth was if you are here trying

3:30

to get a pink slip I can tell you

3:33

that the class is full and there will

3:35

be no pink slips given.

3:38

What happened next? So what

3:41

happened next was I sat in class

3:43

and was really captivated by the lecture

3:47

and I quickly understood why this person

3:50

had the most popular class at

3:52

OU even though I don't know

3:54

that Greek culture in

3:57

the time of the Athenians was

4:00

something that a lot of college students were

4:02

thinking about and At the end

4:04

of the class. I just kind of set my seat

4:06

and absorbed What

4:08

I had listened to as everybody filed out and it just

4:10

so happened that as I was kind of sitting there with

4:13

my thoughts I realized I was one of the last people

4:15

left in the classroom and the teacher was still At

4:18

the front of the the room and I thought well,

4:20

you know, what the heck? I'll just go say hi

4:22

to him and say that was great. I really enjoyed

4:24

it and

4:26

I did and Surprisingly

4:28

as we talked he

4:30

said, you know, it seems like

4:32

you're really interested. You should come by

4:34

my office and talk

4:36

more about this and so

4:38

the next day I showed up

4:41

to his office hours and His

4:43

door was closed he had a Notice

4:46

on his door and the notice said the same thing

4:48

that he'd said at the beginning of the class that

4:50

there will be Absolutely no pink slips given or

4:52

freedom in Greece and knocked on the door He opened

4:54

the door was sitting at a round table in

4:57

the middle of his office and I looked and on

4:59

that table there was a stack of

5:01

pink slips and He said

5:03

come on in we had a conversation and he

5:06

gave me a pink slip to be a

5:08

part of the class I went on to take he

5:11

had another kind of complimentary class called freedom in

5:13

Rome and Even though

5:15

I was a business major. I ended up taking

5:17

a letters capstone that he taught So

5:20

I ended up taking three courses over the

5:22

course of my college career with him But

5:25

it was a seminal moment for me because

5:27

I think it taught me a principle about

5:29

life there's a lot of people

5:31

that say they want something but at

5:33

the very first sign of

5:35

difficulty they abandoned and This

5:39

was the first time that I saw That

5:41

little bit of extra persistence of showing that you

5:43

really do want something that you really are willing

5:45

to fight for it a little bit It's

5:47

amazing how often that's all it takes To

5:50

get to the next level whether that's in

5:53

our character or as a leader or an

5:55

entrepreneurship And so I learned

5:57

a lot of things to that class About

6:00

you know Greek and Roman civilization and the

6:02

way that people thought but the most important

6:04

lesson I learned before I was even in

6:07

the class which was about the Importance

6:10

of persistence and how just

6:12

sheer want to will

6:14

take you a long way in life Why do

6:17

you think this isn't normal? It's

6:19

a good question. Um, I

6:21

mean, I think some of it is our own insecurity

6:23

that when we aspire to

6:26

do something significant

6:28

I think there's

6:30

a voice in the back of most of our heads

6:32

that tells us you're not gonna be able to do

6:34

this or this is silly

6:36

or you're gonna fail and Immediately

6:40

whenever we get any piece of feedback

6:43

That that we kind of look stupid or that we don't

6:45

know what we're doing. It's just easy to be like Oh,

6:47

yeah, you know the voice in my head was right and

6:50

so We have to

6:52

develop I think the kind of internal

6:55

fortitude and Confidence

6:58

to say I'm gonna power past that voice

7:00

and I'm gonna keep going one example of

7:02

this in Oklahoma,

7:04

which is where we're based I've

7:07

become a little bit of an avatar

7:09

for entrepreneurship that when people think of

7:11

entrepreneurship in this state I think especially

7:13

when they think about younger entrepreneurs I'm

7:16

probably one of the first faces that they

7:18

think of but interestingly I didn't think of

7:20

myself as an entrepreneur until I was about

7:22

35 and And I really

7:25

I didn't have the self-confidence to think about

7:27

myself that way I mean I I thought

7:29

entrepreneurship was cool. I thought creating things was

7:31

very cool But I

7:33

didn't have the self-belief that I could actually

7:35

do that and interestingly

7:37

my younger brother Who

7:40

got into entrepreneurship before I did I think

7:43

watching him and then him inviting me into

7:45

it with him Doing it together

7:47

with him is how I developed the self belief

7:49

and the confidence that I could do this and

7:51

I could go for it So

7:53

today I do a lot of teaching and

7:56

as you mentioned writing online and part of

7:58

the reason why I do it is

8:00

that I would love it if I was one of

8:02

those voices that people hears that says

8:04

you can do this. Like not that it's gonna

8:06

be easy, you know, not that it you won't

8:08

face challenges because those things are definitely gonna happen

8:11

but that you can actually do this

8:14

because I needed that to

8:16

develop the self-belief to take on some of the

8:18

challenges I have. What

8:20

about for that person right now

8:22

who is questioning themselves or another

8:25

element of that is I think we think

8:28

it's too common that people think

8:30

too small. They don't think

8:33

big enough and I'm

8:35

curious if you could take us back to the beginning

8:37

of Simple Modern. Like

8:39

how big did you think because you probably

8:41

had imposter syndrome you just admit it right

8:43

your brother needed to push you but

8:46

I love man Mike and I feel

8:48

like you're probably you're a

8:51

great representation of this from going from

8:54

a place that where

8:56

you question yourselves to now I'm guessing you

8:58

think really big and I want to

9:00

help people just

9:03

go big man like think really big

9:05

from the beginning that it is possible.

9:08

What advice would you give to those who

9:10

are currently thinking too small on how to

9:12

think bigger? So I

9:14

would start here. I would say there's a lot

9:16

of different ways that you can be ambitious. And

9:20

some of them are much better than others. Some

9:22

of them are much more meaningful than others. Some

9:25

of them have much more of a ramification for

9:27

the lives of other people and ripple outward for

9:30

a lot longer than others. And

9:33

so choosing what you're going to be

9:35

ambitious about is actually I think as

9:37

a leader one of the primary things

9:39

you have to get right. One

9:42

of the things that happened to me just to share

9:44

a little bit of my story when I was graduating

9:46

from college I was a finance major and through a

9:49

series of events some of it was getting married right

9:51

out of college. I actually accepted

9:53

a nonprofit ministry job right out of

9:55

college which if you were thinking hey

9:57

I want to be in business I want to be

9:59

an entrepreneur. It is not at all

10:01

what you would think is the ideal first

10:03

job at a college and

10:06

yet it was tremendous for me.

10:09

I attribute so much of my success in

10:11

the business world ironically to being in a

10:13

nonprofit job where I had to raise my

10:16

salary and the reason is this,

10:18

in my early 20s

10:20

along with my wife, I

10:22

think I really established the dream for my

10:24

life and what I thought had

10:26

meaning and purpose in life. And

10:28

as a derivative of that, I had an idea

10:31

of the things that I wanted to be ambitious

10:33

about with my life. And

10:35

once I had clarity on those things, it

10:39

became a lot easier to start to think

10:41

about how I was going to lead people

10:43

and how I was going to lead myself

10:45

towards being the type of person that could

10:47

actually lead people towards those things. And

10:50

so with our company today, a

10:53

lot of people, the simple modern story is very

10:55

interesting from a number of different angles. We

10:58

bootstrapped the company and in eight years, we've basically grown

11:01

it to about a quarter of a billion dollars in

11:03

annual revenue. And that

11:05

is a really remarkable story and yet I

11:07

don't think it's the most remarkable thing about

11:09

the company because the company doesn't exist primarily

11:11

to make money. I think about the company

11:14

as it primarily exists to impact the lives

11:16

of people. So that's the

11:18

team that I lead, that's the customers we serve, that's the

11:20

partners we work with, that's the community that we're a part

11:22

of. That's why we

11:24

have a really atypical mission statement we exist

11:27

to give generously because the entire

11:29

purpose for the organization is actually

11:32

how can we impact the lives of people

11:34

through sharing more or less. And

11:37

it just so happens that we sell water bottles

11:39

and tumblers to fund that vision. And

11:42

so interestingly, we aimed at impacting

11:44

the lives of people and

11:48

as a derivative of that, as a

11:50

nice side benefit of that, we've been

11:52

able to grow a thriving business. I

11:54

don't think it's a coincidence that when

11:56

you have a mission that Gets people excited

11:58

and gets people out of bed. Then

12:00

the ability to attract and recruit

12:03

and retain unbelievable people. I guess

12:05

a lot easier and we have

12:07

unbelievable people no matter what you're

12:09

trying to do. It incident happening

12:12

with a lot higher level of

12:14

excellence. So for me where it

12:16

started was. I. Am an

12:18

ambitious person. But having

12:21

the discipline to spoke is that

12:23

ambition on things that really matter

12:25

was the star of I think

12:27

really unlocking my effectiveness. There's a

12:29

a principal the I've heard other

12:31

people like basis mention this but

12:33

which I think is a great

12:35

principle that the kind of seventy

12:37

five year old self principle of.

12:40

How will I look back on these

12:42

things when I'm seventy five or eighty

12:44

host career and what will be meaningful

12:46

to me than and using that as

12:49

a frame of reference today really helps

12:51

me to keep the first thing in

12:53

the most important thing that the first

12:55

thing and then as a result, there's

12:58

been success across a number of different

13:00

areas, but it started with my conviction

13:02

that actually making an impact in the

13:04

lives of people is the most significant

13:07

thing you can do. And we're talking

13:09

about leadership. Mean fundamentally, that's

13:11

what leadership his. Leadership isn't

13:13

just. I have

13:15

tactical and strategic abilities to organizing

13:18

get people to do what I

13:20

want them to do. so it's

13:22

really more about I have the

13:25

ability to help people unlock the

13:27

best version of themselves and wing

13:29

groups of people are in that

13:32

process of unlocking their best special

13:34

things just happen. To

13:37

do have. This. Ambition

13:39

and beliefs and clarity.

13:42

And twenty fifteen I mean or does

13:44

it take time to get it because

13:46

at some point you to see to

13:49

make money right? You're you're You're trying

13:51

to sell something, you're trying to create

13:53

something that people want to buy. Was

13:55

was his ambition and this mission happening

13:57

from the very beginning. Or did you.

14:00

Grow to be able to document this

14:02

in cook codify of for your company.

14:04

Yeah. So I think it's a little

14:06

bit of both. I'll for sure. When

14:08

we started the company, we knew we

14:10

want to make a different type of

14:12

company. When we founded the company, I

14:14

was actually kind of at a crossroads

14:16

where I felt like. I had. I

14:19

been in the nonprofit world for ten years. My I

14:21

taught my brother start business to get very big, very

14:23

quick, And after a few

14:25

years running that with him I knew either

14:27

one go back and the nonprofit world or

14:29

I wanted to build a very different type

14:32

of business. So when we started the company.

14:34

We knew we wanted to build something pretty

14:36

different, and we knew that we wanted generosity

14:39

in relationships to be a really. Central.

14:42

Piece. Of that, we knew we wanted

14:44

to use ecommerce because we had some

14:46

real skills and he commerce and that

14:48

was about it so I can talk

14:50

about it. probably with a lot of

14:53

eloquence today, but I want everybody listening

14:55

to hear me really clearly. He is

14:57

an iterative process of getting to the

14:59

point of having the levels of clarity

15:01

and focus. I mean, I think a

15:04

good analogy here would be if you

15:06

imagine a camera the salon autofocus but

15:08

it's on manual focus. We had no

15:10

lands pointed in a very particular. Direction

15:12

from day one. But over the

15:14

weeks and months and years that

15:16

have happened since, I think we've

15:18

turned the dial and it's come

15:20

more more into sharp focus. exactly

15:22

what it is that we're aiming

15:24

at and the ability to articulate

15:26

it. So we started with wanting

15:28

to build something different. for sure

15:30

That you mentioned it in the

15:32

early days of up business, you

15:34

task to be opportunistic. It has

15:36

to be like whatever it takes.

15:38

You know, like a where's your

15:40

opportunity? Where can we generate? revenue where

15:43

can we find the gross profit to

15:45

to fund our salaries and so there

15:47

was a lot of even though i'm

15:49

able to talk now about like the

15:51

ideals and all the stats like man

15:53

i was grinding i mean there were

15:55

some weeks where i was put in

15:57

his eighty ninety one hundred hours and

16:00

I had to be excellent individually at

16:02

things in order to help get the

16:04

company off the ground. And

16:08

in some ways, I think that process was

16:10

really helpful for me. And it's one of

16:12

the things I like about entrepreneurship is when

16:15

you're hiring people, you're hiring people

16:17

that are culture fits and mission fits, but you're

16:19

also trying to hire people that will be exceptional

16:21

team members and that can do the job. And

16:24

one of the things that I think helped enable

16:27

me to be able to identify the type of

16:29

people that could excel and do the job really

16:31

well with excellence is doing the job

16:33

myself. So we definitely went

16:35

through that whole phase where I use

16:38

an analogy sometimes that

16:41

I think there's these different stages

16:43

of leadership. So the first

16:45

stage, we'll call it a player stage where it's

16:47

like, if you're not throwing touchdown passes, then you're

16:49

not scoring. And then if

16:52

you're successful enough, you start to hire people

16:54

and you go into this player coach phase

16:56

where it's kind of like, okay,

16:58

now I have some teammates, but they still don't

17:00

really know what they're doing. I'm having to coach

17:02

them on the fly as I'm

17:04

also trying to throw touchdown passes. And then

17:07

hopefully you get to this point where you're

17:09

able to go to the sideline and you're

17:11

able to just coach. And

17:13

at this point, I'm probably a coach or maybe

17:15

even a step beyond that

17:17

with simple modern, but going

17:20

through that progression, I think has

17:22

been really helpful. I

17:25

love the title of

17:27

the podcast because one of

17:30

the experiences I've had going through nine years

17:32

with simple modern is that

17:35

I've led the same company,

17:37

but I've really basically had like five

17:39

or six different jobs because

17:42

at different levels of revenue and different numbers

17:44

of employees, what's actually needed of me to

17:46

be an effective leader has been dramatically

17:49

different. And so just when

17:51

it's like raising kids, like just when you

17:53

feel like you know how to raise a

17:55

three-year-old, they're four. And

17:58

you've got To learn a whole new skill set. Get

18:00

a kind of adjust to the way that

18:02

they've grown and their needs and leading a

18:04

growing company a growing team is the same

18:07

way that were. Even once you feel like

18:09

you can a habit seeger doubts then you

18:11

realize oh man, the roles change, the teams

18:14

change and I have to continue to learn.

18:16

And. Grow in order to be the

18:18

kind of leader I wanna be And

18:21

but I do really strongly believe

18:23

in the idea that at some point.

18:26

The ability for your team to grow

18:28

is capped by the leaders' ability to

18:30

grow and learn themselves so a way.

18:33

That are.lot of the long answer for a

18:35

short question begs you are is so good

18:37

Already missed This is good stuff I guess

18:39

he is. If you should be a college

18:41

professor, I'd take the class. Write books for

18:44

sure. You mentioned

18:46

how as your role the Ceo

18:48

has changed and I love the

18:50

the process player player, coach, coach

18:52

and alcoa like probably more general

18:54

manager and coach because you have

18:56

to use like players arms like

18:58

team members. What are what are.

19:00

The best! And. Worst.

19:03

Parts about being a Ceo:

19:08

So. I can tell

19:10

you for many people. The. Answer

19:12

about the worst part of

19:14

being a Ceo is the

19:16

stress and the isolation. Now.

19:19

For me. That. Hasn't

19:21

been the case, and there's a number of things that

19:23

I have done. On said

19:25

to help. Ah, I

19:27

think protect myself and that's that

19:29

distress peace there defined and stressful

19:31

times and ah I wouldn't downplay

19:34

those, but I would not describe

19:36

the last eight years has been

19:38

primarily defined by stress I have

19:40

it is and where the as

19:42

much more the exception than the

19:44

rule and the reason why I

19:46

haven't experienced the level of isolation

19:48

that many leaders feel. I think

19:51

is a combination of trying to

19:53

build a team culture where relationships

19:55

are highly valued. And

19:57

also being deliberate and intentional.

20:00

The way that we've told the

20:02

team where the the initial adult,

20:04

the team as I actually went recruited

20:06

people that I had known for

20:08

at least a decade or more.

20:10

But then as we've hired an expanded

20:12

the team, personal referrals have been

20:14

a big part of that and

20:16

as a result we really when we

20:19

bring new team members and it's

20:21

amazing how quickly they integrate into

20:23

the relational fabric of the company We

20:25

we invest money and things like

20:27

we bring in lunch every single

20:29

day. Everybody take sides at the

20:31

same time and we go out. And we

20:33

don't talk about work, we talk about life

20:35

we talk about we did with our kids over

20:37

the weekend. things like that. So the fact that

20:40

I'm a part of a community that I'm

20:42

not just an old role but I'm in

20:44

a community has really protect him. if not most

20:46

see as many Ceos do not experience that.

20:49

And. I

20:51

think it's really easy to feel

20:53

isolated and into cel discouraged her

20:55

breasts and a another big part

20:57

of this is an identity thing

20:59

that I think I had to

21:01

learn in my twenties. An end

21:03

to some extent I'm still learning,

21:05

but. That. Were

21:08

you have to find identity? Really

21:11

defines what goes on in your

21:13

mind and your hearts. and. I'm.

21:16

A Ceo. But that's not who I

21:19

am, that's not an entity. it's a

21:21

role that I have. and it's a

21:23

hat that I were. But it's not

21:25

the suit The thing I was to

21:27

to defy my identity. but for many

21:29

years that's where they find the central

21:31

sense of identity that they can win.

21:33

Okay, what is the saints that makes

21:35

me worth loving? That makes me matter

21:37

of his new role. And if that's

21:39

the case, Then what happens

21:42

when the performance isn't there? What happens

21:44

when you're not see anymore and we

21:46

actually know the answer? This that many

21:48

people when they step out of the

21:50

Ceo role they they go into a

21:52

depression. They really struggle that they have

21:54

to wonder kind of in the wilderness

21:56

for a few years to work through

21:58

that the emotional baggage that comes from

22:00

that. I'm. Convinced or water

22:02

that as a result. Of looking

22:05

for identity and our roles

22:07

and sit as finding our

22:09

identity in selsey places and.

22:12

So is. so that's another thing that's

22:14

been helpful for me. and it's tempting.

22:16

I see why it's tempting especially when

22:18

you're winning specially when things are going

22:20

well. It it is very tempting to

22:22

say yeah I will. I wanna find

22:24

my identity and the success of the

22:26

company or the way the company's viewed

22:29

by have of had to develop I

22:31

think the internal self discipline to not

22:33

find it there and this is another

22:35

place where I think community in relationships

22:37

really matter. Is that

22:39

I'm surrounded by people that they like

22:41

me, they respect my abilities, they are

22:43

not on oil and all me and

22:46

they're They're willing to say the hard

22:48

thing to me, they're willing to tell

22:50

me when I have something to my

22:52

teeth and that kind of his on

22:55

relational connectedness can helps prevent me from

22:57

trying to find identity in in places

22:59

that that I shouldn't So those are

23:01

some of the i mean obviously is

23:03

it is hard that the buck stops

23:06

with you. And

23:08

that there's. A lot of challenges and

23:10

and going through covert some of the

23:12

uncertainty they're like. It is as challenging

23:14

when your see often your people looking

23:16

to you to have the answers and

23:18

you just don't have answers on the

23:20

positive side I just think the amount

23:22

of leverage that you have. To.

23:24

Make an impact in the lives

23:27

of other people is just so

23:29

profound. You. Know lights than the

23:31

amount of resources and people that you

23:33

get to direct and lead in the

23:35

potential that exists there is just unbelievable

23:37

and to me it's what makes the

23:40

jobs so it you for all the

23:42

things that make it challenging. It's. I.

23:44

Wouldn't I wouldn't want any other job because

23:47

I really do feel like my time counts

23:49

every day that I'm using it towards something

23:51

meaningful. You mentioned

23:53

are you need to find your

23:55

identity and healthy places. Where

23:58

are? You do that. So.

24:02

Am. I. Think every single

24:04

person has to at some point

24:06

have a real conversation with themselves

24:09

about this. Subject. For.

24:13

Me personnel start it for me

24:15

personally. Want the biggest life changes

24:17

was that on. A

24:19

relationship with God became important to me in

24:22

college and was a real turning point for

24:24

me and I know that there's me people

24:26

this new, this were specialized, part their life's

24:28

not part of life's This is not initially

24:30

me saying like that's the answer. it's more

24:33

saying for me it was a big turning

24:35

point because up until that point. I.

24:37

Had sound my identity in the

24:39

unhealthy places of accomplishment. That's my

24:41

Gps, my resume, the awards that

24:44

I won his. These were the

24:46

things that I kept on to

24:48

in my heart as this is

24:50

why people should love me or

24:52

I should have value or my

24:54

life has meaning. And ironically the

24:56

way that I was broken of

24:58

that is that I. I

25:00

kind of one everything I wanted to win

25:03

and I had all the success that I

25:05

wanted to have. an i got to kind

25:07

of the end of road and realize there's

25:09

an whatever I'm looking for. It is. it's

25:12

here. I mean, some other pitfalls that we

25:14

can fall into. ah, I think possessions you

25:16

know, obviously defining ourselves to the things that

25:18

we own. Whether that's the money that we

25:21

have or the car that we drive on.

25:23

The defining ourselves by our reputation.

25:26

Ah, the finding ourselves by our roles, defining

25:29

ourselves on the as it care, even even

25:31

characteristics. this can be really you know, like

25:33

I asked, I'll see people that find their

25:35

identity and their politics Are people that find

25:38

their identity and be in the smartest person

25:40

in the rooms you know and. And.

25:42

It's easy once you see it

25:44

to really deconstruct the way that

25:46

that can be. Destructive.

25:49

And people's lives so in

25:51

general. What? I have found. Is.

25:54

that finding your identity and something that's

25:56

bigger than cells is the start of

25:58

health and and there's There's a lot of research

26:00

out there that says this. And

26:03

there's a lot and finding identity in

26:05

being a part of how you impact

26:07

the lives of other people is another.

26:10

There's some fingerprints out there that across,

26:13

you know, a bunch of different trends of

26:15

thought, research has borne this out that this

26:17

is kind of how we're hardwired as people. So

26:20

that's what I would encourage everybody

26:22

to if you don't feel like you

26:24

have clarity on this that you're willing to

26:27

look inward and have the hard conversation of

26:29

yourself of what are the

26:31

places where I'm looking for identity that are

26:33

really like that

26:35

are unhealthy and another thing, well, I'll add

26:37

one more idea. Here's another thing that can

26:40

make something an unhealthy place to find identity.

26:44

If it is something that is

26:46

performance-based or something that is finite,

26:49

then you're eventually going to come to some kind

26:51

of an internal crisis because that thing's going to

26:53

go away, right? So

26:56

if your identity is in your beauty, then

26:58

you're going to die a thousand deaths as

27:01

you age. You know? If

27:03

your identity is in being the best,

27:05

you know, basketball player in the world,

27:08

then retirement is going to hit you like a

27:10

ton of bricks, you know? And

27:13

so what I think the healthier places

27:15

that we find identity, they're outside of

27:18

ourselves, they're others focused and they're infinite

27:20

instead of finite. And

27:22

once we find those places, it's just amazing

27:24

to me how much leading other people starts

27:26

with being able to lead yourself. So

27:30

true, man. Do you have a

27:32

personal purpose? I know there's the company has all

27:34

of the mission, purpose, values, all that stuff. What

27:36

about for you? Like, do you have an individual

27:38

purpose in life? Yeah. So the

27:41

way that I think about my purpose is I

27:43

want to use my effort and time to

27:45

make the largest redemptive impact on the world

27:48

that I can. And

27:50

I think there's a ton of different facets to

27:53

how that shows up. You've mentioned

27:55

some of them already. It

27:57

is teaching. It is giving. financially.

28:00

It is leading and

28:02

creating value so

28:05

that, you know, the pie

28:07

is enlarged for everyone. It

28:09

is parenting and pouring my

28:11

life into my two children. It is being a

28:13

good spouse. It is being a part of the

28:16

community that, you know, like it is

28:19

a part of improving and helping the lives

28:21

of other people. There's all the, you know,

28:23

I'm an elder in my church. There's a

28:25

ton of different dimensions to it and but

28:27

I think the larger idea is I would love

28:30

it if my life positively

28:32

altered the trajectory of as many people's

28:35

lives as possible. And

28:38

I'm aware that I've been gifted with,

28:41

I have a lot of giftings and I'm very

28:43

privileged to be able to lead

28:45

the company that I lead and to have

28:48

the giftings that I have. So I get

28:50

excited about the idea of sharing that with

28:52

other people hopefully to make a positive impact

28:54

in their life. I think some of this,

28:56

I'll give a couple of pieces of context. I grew

28:59

up in a family with two

29:01

parents that were in mental health. So my dad was

29:03

a psychologist, my mom was a social worker and

29:09

watching them, you know,

29:11

when you're growing up your parents, there's a couple

29:13

of things that stand out to you that you

29:15

remember about your parents and what they've said. And

29:17

one of mine was that they

29:19

told me several times, we

29:22

did not pick these professions because they

29:24

make good money. They don't. We

29:27

picked these professions because we wanted to help people

29:29

and we think that that's the most important way

29:31

that we could invest our lives. And

29:34

I think as a child, hearing

29:36

that from your parents made a pretty big

29:38

impact on my worldview and it's carried through

29:40

all the way into my adulthood where, okay,

29:42

part of the dream for how my life

29:45

would be well used is positively impacting the

29:47

lives of other people. The

29:50

other piece I'll say here, inside

29:52

of our company, we in our core

29:54

values, One of our core values

29:56

is generosity. But The way that we define generosity,

29:58

I Think is. Really?

30:01

Helpful. That generosity is

30:03

not just writing checks and giving away

30:05

money. That's what people usually think

30:07

of and for sure. That. Is a

30:09

part of generosity? Like if if you're not

30:11

being generous with your money, then you know

30:14

what what's going on. But generosity? So much

30:16

more than that. It's really kind of a

30:18

stance is saying hey, all the gifts, All

30:20

the abilities, all the things that I have.

30:23

I'm gonna be open handed with them. Ominous.

30:25

Share them with others for the benefit. of

30:28

other people and when you take that

30:30

perspective I think a couple things happened

30:32

for some a like mean. One

30:35

thing said that protects you against is it

30:37

protects you against the idea that just because

30:40

I wrote you know a big check to

30:42

so and so charity that I've done my

30:44

partner don't have to be jones site know

30:46

you know like it's in no matter how

30:48

much money I have him out, how successful

30:50

the company as I think generosity is and

30:52

all these different facets of my life mean.

30:54

For example is why why my twins podcast

30:56

will. Ultimately it's because hopefully by giving away

30:59

it's these thoughts I make me an impact

31:01

and you know like will you do need

31:03

sector five hundred something episodes in the this.

31:05

Hopefully the reason that you're doing that

31:07

is because you're plausibly impacting people by

31:10

giving away that information by sharing that

31:12

that those thoughts and when he started

31:14

take this. Kind. Of capital g.

31:16

Vision of generosity. The other really

31:19

cool thing that happens. Is.

31:21

That it makes it possible for everyone to

31:23

be a leader and generosity. So think about

31:25

my company contacts, for example, Great

31:28

leaders in what they do with anything

31:30

else. Here's prison d Fingerprint have a

31:33

great leader. They create more leaders, the

31:35

empowerment leaders. We'd

31:37

since you define leadership.

31:40

In a results based performance

31:43

based lens. And. Our culture,

31:46

and but i would i would

31:48

argue that we often look at

31:50

the wrong criteria and that really

31:52

the best leaders d singer print

31:54

is that you just you see

31:56

all these people that had been

31:58

under their leadership thing go on

32:00

to be remarkable leaders in their own

32:02

right. And so

32:05

I wanna build a culture where we're

32:07

building a lot of leaders. And

32:09

in this particular way, when it

32:11

comes to generosity, I think

32:14

defining generosity where it's like every single

32:16

person in our organization can be a

32:18

leader in this value. It

32:21

will look different if you're a customer support rep,

32:23

it will look different. It might be sharing your

32:25

time. It might be the words that you say

32:27

to employees. It might be whatever. But

32:30

it might look different than me on a

32:32

day-to-day basis because we're situated differently, but you

32:35

can still lead in this. And

32:37

really for us to have the kind of culture that we wanna have,

32:39

you have to lead in this, we all have to lead in this.

32:42

And that was a major breakthrough

32:44

for me, that understanding. And I

32:46

think that my effectiveness as a

32:48

leader when I made that

32:50

realization grew a ton because I

32:52

really, I think I

32:55

transitioned from being somebody that people

32:58

could be inspired by and

33:00

could articulate the idea to being

33:02

somebody who's actually empowering and mobilizing

33:05

other people to say, I

33:07

can lead. One

33:09

of the ways you give generously, I'd

33:11

say for sure, is

33:13

you regularly publish your thoughts.

33:18

The preparation process for me

33:20

to scroll through your Twitter

33:22

feed, I went way back,

33:26

was amazing. It was better than

33:28

a lot of books that I've read in the past few

33:30

years, honestly. And

33:33

so I think writing like that can

33:35

have a lot of

33:37

benefits. One, you're giving, right? You're

33:39

being very generous of sharing. It

33:41

seems like everything that you've learned along the way. But

33:44

I wanna focus on another part in addition to

33:46

being generous. I think

33:48

writing is the ultimate tool for clarity. It

33:51

is such an amazing teacher. For example,

33:53

I've written a few books and you get

33:56

a book deal based off of a

33:58

proposal in a few sample chapters. and

34:00

then you have to write the full book. That

34:03

process of like I had chapter titles, I

34:05

had an outline, I had ideas, I had

34:07

a little bit of it written, but actually

34:09

finishing it, one

34:11

of the reasons I do it certainly

34:14

is to share and to hopefully help

34:16

people, but also for myself to lead

34:18

myself as it is an amazing tool

34:21

for learning. How has writing helped you

34:23

learn and get more clear on what

34:25

you believe? Well,

34:28

you are absolutely preaching to the choir

34:30

right now because I could not cosign

34:33

that thought any more

34:35

strongly. A few

34:37

thoughts here about writing and I'll preface it

34:40

with this. I

34:42

am 44 and so generationally, I

34:44

didn't grow up with a smartphone and

34:46

the idea of you know what, I had a thought, I'm

34:48

gonna put it on the internet is just not part of

34:51

my hard wiring the way it might be for somebody 10

34:53

or 20 years younger than me. It's

34:56

really been an act of discipline, you know that

34:58

I'm going to do this because I think it's

35:00

worthwhile. I think the

35:03

very first thing is what you said, I

35:05

believe that there's levels of understanding of an issue.

35:08

It starts with I know nothing, I'm

35:11

just kind of bouncing around and

35:13

then over time I develop a

35:16

sense of what

35:18

is more effective, we'll call it

35:20

intuition. There's almost an intuitive understanding, I

35:22

couldn't necessarily articulate it, I'm not

35:25

necessarily being deliberate but I'm intuitively understanding how to

35:27

behave in a situation or how to handle something.

35:30

Then there's this next layer which is I

35:33

actually could start to you know, you and

35:35

I could have an interaction and

35:38

I behaved in

35:40

a deliberate way and afterwards I could explain

35:42

to you here is why I handled that situation

35:44

the way that I did, that there's intentional thought.

35:47

And then I think there's another

35:49

layer beyond that where I

35:52

can understand situations as they're happening

35:55

in real time and intentionally pick

35:57

my course of action. And

36:00

then I think there's a point beyond that where you can teach

36:02

it. So there's this progression

36:04

in my mind of how clearly

36:07

you understand a principle and

36:10

that the ultimate expression of that is

36:12

when you understand it with the amount

36:14

of clarity that you could articulate it

36:17

and communicate it to other people with

36:20

clarity of thought. And so I

36:22

think you're exactly right. It pushes me to

36:26

crystallize my thoughts. And

36:28

one of the things that I think as a

36:30

leader, the thing that's great about writing

36:32

is it scales. It's

36:35

one of the reasons why podcasts are great

36:37

to me, that there's a scalability. You and

36:39

I are having a one-to-one conversation right now.

36:41

But I know there's other people that will listen to this. And

36:44

so by putting in the

36:46

effort to this conversation, I know that

36:49

many people can benefit. And obviously the

36:51

internet makes that possible in a way

36:53

that up until this point had

36:56

been impossible in human history, that

36:59

I can put in an hour

37:01

or two hours clarifying a thought that

37:03

I've had that I think could be

37:05

helpful. And then 100,000 people

37:07

might get to read it and might be able to

37:09

get benefit from it. And that

37:12

it's there forever. It's evergreen, which

37:14

that's an amazing thing to me.

37:17

So I completely agree

37:19

with your assessment that the

37:21

reason to write first

37:24

is that it helps you to have clarity

37:26

of thought and helps you to develop. It's

37:28

like getting in the gym for your body.

37:30

It's a development tool for your mind. I

37:34

think another thing that's super interesting about writing

37:36

on the internet is then you don't

37:38

just go through the process of clarifying the

37:41

thought and becoming more clear

37:43

in your own thinking. Then you're allowed

37:45

to see other people, a bunch of

37:47

other people interact with that thought. And

37:50

occasionally then that unlocks even more

37:52

understanding. And that's happened to me several times

37:54

where I have an idea, I spend 20

37:56

or 30 minutes figuring out how I want to say it,

38:00

two or three people say things that

38:02

build on or sometimes even challenge that

38:05

way of thinking and I'm like, oh,

38:07

that's great. You know, that does make

38:09

me rethink it. And so this

38:11

is again another tool for self development

38:14

that just really didn't exist quite at

38:16

the level that we have today. Finally,

38:19

it's interesting you say that I've been

38:21

asked several times about a book and

38:23

ultimately what I think if

38:26

there is a book, a lot of that

38:28

book will probably just be compiling things that

38:30

I've written over the years because it's been

38:32

for me, it's a

38:35

great way. It's like journaling almost. It's just a great way

38:37

to make sure that I'm getting my thoughts out as I'm

38:39

having them. And by publishing

38:41

them, you also are increasing

38:44

your surface area for luck and

38:47

serendipity and for

38:49

relationships to be created. I

38:51

would not have known of

38:53

you if you didn't tweet. That's

38:56

how I became aware of you. I went down the

38:58

rabbit hole. I read a ton of them and then

39:00

I sent you a cold note saying, God, I'd love

39:02

to talk to you about how

39:04

you're leading and I didn't realize you're the founder CEO

39:07

of Simple Modern. This is insane. And

39:09

I don't think you were even the first one

39:11

that caught my eye was from something else. I think

39:13

it was actually about the Mad Men video,

39:16

which I'd like to ask you about too when it

39:18

comes to marketing. But that's the cool thing is I

39:20

wonder how many relationships have been created

39:22

because you've had the guts, the willingness

39:25

and the desire to be generous by

39:27

publishing your thoughts online that you've

39:29

attracted others to you and

39:32

then that's created speaking engagements and all

39:34

different types of relationships have formed because

39:36

people are like, ah, I like the

39:38

way Mike thinks about this. I may

39:41

not agree with everything he's writing, but I like

39:43

that he's thoughtful and intentional and putting them

39:45

out there and then that generates even more cooler

39:47

relationships in your life. I have to believe

39:49

that that's a big part of it too. Sure,

39:52

absolutely. And I think that

39:56

people that are passionate about similar

39:58

things can want

40:00

to connect with other people that share those passions

40:02

and this is the power of the internet,

40:06

is that in 100 years ago, it might

40:08

have been that there are 10 people in

40:11

my community that have a similar, you know,

40:13

that are situated similarly and passionate about the

40:15

same things. In some communities, it might be

40:17

there's nobody, right? That

40:19

my community has 400 people in it and nobody really sees the

40:21

world the same way I do. In an

40:24

internet age, it's like in a world of

40:26

8 billion people, there's actually a lot of

40:28

people that are being intentional, that care about

40:30

leadership, that want to create things and

40:33

that publishing your thoughts online

40:35

becomes like a magnet for those type of

40:37

people and, you

40:39

know, it's both exhilarating and a little

40:42

bit overwhelming to realize, oh my gosh, there

40:44

are so many special people in the world

40:46

that I would love to be connected with

40:48

and so if anything, the only tension that

40:50

it creates is that you really have to

40:52

start to think intentionally about time and how

40:54

many relationships can I maintain but

40:56

the amount of enrichment that's come into my life

40:58

as a result of sharing my thoughts and meeting

41:00

exceptional people, it's really impossible to

41:03

put a price on. I love

41:05

it. Can we talk about that actually? The

41:08

best, you said my favorite marketing pitch ever,

41:10

okay? This is from Mad Men, John Ham's,

41:13

the actor Don Draper's, his character and

41:16

you write, I'll tee it up and maybe you

41:18

can expand on this one but Kodak in the

41:20

TV show asked for a branding campaign around a

41:22

new product. It's a circular device that allows you

41:24

to flip through pictures and you said

41:27

Kodak hopes to highlight the technology

41:29

and call the product the wheel but

41:31

then they get a master

41:34

class on branding from John Ham. What

41:37

happened in that story? So

41:39

they walk into the boardroom and

41:41

John Ham turns off the lights,

41:43

the product is

41:46

what we've come to know is the carousel

41:48

which it's a slide viewer, you know, when

41:50

you used to take photos, you turn them

41:52

into little slides and

41:55

John Ham starts just showing slides of

41:58

his family and specifically his family. when

42:00

his kids are young. And

42:03

he talks about how in marketing,

42:06

one of the most effective techniques is something

42:08

that's new, that you can kind of create

42:10

an itch with people, but that

42:12

there's actually something deeper that you can appeal

42:14

to with people than new or their desire

42:16

for new stuff. And that's

42:18

their emotion and their

42:21

nostalgia. And he's

42:23

doing this as he's showing these pictures.

42:26

It's interesting because in the show, you

42:28

know the context of

42:30

the fact that his marriage isn't going well and that

42:32

things aren't going well at home. And so what you

42:34

know is that when his character is seeing these pictures,

42:37

that in some way he's feeling the

42:40

twinge of regret and pain of

42:43

wanting to go back to the days

42:45

that are represented in those pictures. And

42:48

he basically just says, hey guys, this isn't the wheel. It's

42:51

more like a carousel. It's more like a thing that takes

42:54

you up and down back

42:56

to where you've been and brings

42:59

you back to where you started, but

43:01

you're different as a result. And the reason why I

43:04

love it is that ultimately,

43:07

we tend to think of ourselves as such rational, modern

43:10

beings. But what

43:12

drives us is what's

43:15

drive humans for many,

43:17

many, many millennia. And

43:19

that is deeply

43:22

wanting to emotionally connect

43:26

with others. And the

43:28

best leaders, the

43:31

best vision casters are people that are

43:33

able to tap into that deeper self,

43:36

not just appeal to our rational mind, not

43:38

just appeal to our profit motive or

43:40

ambition, but are able to talk to that deeper

43:43

part of us. And

43:45

those are the people that inspire us. Because

43:47

those are the people that are able

43:50

to give us a vision of how

43:52

our life can count in

43:54

a larger way. So

43:56

I love that scene, because in a small way,

43:58

that's what he was doing. that

44:00

pitch, but that's also as leaders. That's what

44:02

we're trying to do. What we're trying to

44:04

do in the lives of other people is

44:08

talk to that deeper place and to

44:10

cast vision for come

44:13

with me and I'm going to help

44:15

you move towards a place

44:17

with deeper meaning and in the

44:19

future that you want to live in and the person that you

44:21

want to be and People

44:23

are so thirsty for that people are

44:26

starving for that We if

44:28

anything in our in our culture today, but you

44:30

know, we have a Scarcity

44:34

of that type of leadership. So love that

44:36

scene and also, you know as a parent

44:38

that has young kids I've

44:41

written about this some online you

44:44

feel and experience time differently that

44:47

my children now are 9 and 12 and it

44:51

is Really

44:53

hard when I walk by a book that I

44:55

read to them every night When

44:57

they're two years old and that we love together

44:59

but has dust on it now It hasn't been

45:01

opened because it represents a period

45:04

in time and a part of my

45:06

life that's been lived and can't

45:08

be revisited and I can

45:12

either respond to that by being sad or I

45:16

can respond to that in the most positive

45:18

way of being grateful that has happened and

45:20

then Making sure that I'm using every day

45:22

in the most intentional way that I possibly

45:24

can and that I'm making it count Because

45:27

soon enough, you know, it'll be like

45:29

that book it'll be part of my

45:31

history and it'll be lived and I want

45:33

to be proud of how I invested that time and I

45:37

guess the final thought that just kind of connects on this

45:42

The company's been very financially successful I've gone from basically

45:44

a missionary that made no money in 20 years to

45:46

a CEO where

45:48

I own a lot of a company

45:50

that's very valuable the

45:52

number one thing that I've taken

45:54

away from that experience and Having

45:57

more money than I could spend is how

46:00

our most valuable resource is

46:03

clearly time. And

46:05

it's made me value time so much more.

46:08

And so anyway, I

46:11

think that scene captures it perfectly. If you haven't seen it,

46:13

you should go look it up. But

46:16

I do think it speaks to the larger that

46:18

as leaders, when we can speak to people's hearts,

46:20

there's a great TED

46:22

talk about this, Simon Sinek talks about how

46:25

the golden circle and how if we speak

46:27

to people about why we're doing something instead

46:29

of what we're doing, that it's so much

46:31

more powerful actually because of how we work

46:33

on a physiological level. And I think that

46:36

that's what that whole scene is getting at.

46:38

By the way, in addition to like

46:41

just how good of a guy you are and everything

46:43

you write online, it makes me want to fill

46:47

my home full of your product too

46:49

and share others, right? And

46:51

I actually spoke to my wife about it. Do we

46:53

have any simple modern? She's like, I'm drinking out of

46:55

one right now, literally right now. I was like, wow.

46:58

And I realized we have a number of them in

47:00

there. I go, I want even more now after doing

47:02

research. And I'm getting ready to talk to

47:04

them. She's like, yeah, I love their stuff. It's my favorite

47:06

more than Stanley

47:08

and other ones that are out there now that are getting a lot

47:10

of love. So anyway, you mentioned

47:12

money. And you also

47:15

written about why you don't seem

47:17

that motivated to sell the company, even though

47:19

you would get paid tons and tons of

47:21

money. You said the whole point of having

47:23

money is that we can

47:25

trade it for things that are better

47:27

than money. Go into more about why

47:29

you're not that motivated to sell the

47:32

company. Well, so just to

47:34

expound on that thought, if you think about

47:36

it, entrepreneurship is really the

47:38

process of trading things. My intelligence,

47:41

my time, my hard work to

47:44

try and build something that

47:46

can make money. So, you know, in some ways that's

47:48

what capitalism and entrepreneurship looks like. Sometimes it's in the

47:51

nonprofit sector and there's a little bit of a different

47:53

goal. But it turns out that really life is a

47:55

lot of this. It's a lot of I'm going to

47:57

take this thing and I'm going to try and turn

47:59

it on. it into this other thing, I'm gonna try

48:01

and you know, rearrange the atoms in the world in a

48:03

certain way that I think is better. And

48:06

once you realize that most of what you're doing

48:08

in life is that you're kind of trading things

48:10

and moving things around, then

48:12

I think it

48:14

brings up this question of what

48:18

are you trying to produce and what are you aiming at? And

48:21

which goes all the way back to the beginning of what

48:23

we were talking about. And for me,

48:26

the interesting thing about money is

48:28

that the reason why money is

48:31

inherently appealing to us is

48:34

the kind of limitless potential

48:36

of what you could convert it into.

48:38

That money has the ability

48:41

to be turned into almost anything, a

48:43

lot of things, right? So

48:46

can I, I can get a new car,

48:48

I can learn how to swim, I can,

48:50

you know, like whatever,

48:53

I could throw a party, I could go

48:56

into space, right? I could do all these

48:58

things with money. There's all these things that

49:00

I can convert that thing into experiences and

49:02

other things. But what is

49:04

also fascinating to me is that there

49:06

are some things that you can't actually

49:09

convert money into, at least not well.

49:11

Like I can't really convert money

49:13

into friendship. Now can I,

49:16

if I have a lot of money, can I spend

49:18

more time with my friends? Can that free me up

49:20

to spend more time with my friends? Sure. And

49:22

I can go to a place where my friends and I can go do fun things

49:24

that we couldn't have done without money. Sure. But

49:27

can I actually buy friendship? No, you can't. Or

49:30

at least whatever type of friendship that would be buying is

49:32

not the type of friendship that you want. And

49:35

so I've become very fascinated with this idea

49:37

of as flexible as money is, as kind

49:39

of a trading tool, there

49:41

is this subset of things that

49:44

you can't buy with it, at

49:46

least not well. And that if

49:48

you look at that subset of things, there's this

49:50

aha moment of that subset of things is actually

49:53

the subset of things that end up mattering the

49:55

most to us in life. But

49:57

I can't buy the thing that I can't buy. things

50:00

that end up giving my life

50:02

meaning and purpose and joy. Those

50:05

things can't be purchased. So,

50:09

once you have a lot of

50:12

resources, you start to

50:14

realize, hey, there are real limits here.

50:17

And the limits seem to exist right around the

50:19

things that I most want to produce in my

50:22

life. Like, you know, I can't convert having a

50:24

lot of money into my kids loving me. I

50:26

just can't do it, you know. I

50:29

can convert money into my kids tolerating

50:31

me and coming to Thanksgiving because, you

50:33

know, they've got an inheritance or whatever.

50:35

But if that's the best I can

50:37

do, that's not really what I'm trying

50:39

to produce. And so, what I've come

50:42

to term this idea is all the

50:44

things that money can't buy or can't

50:46

effectively be converted into, I

50:49

think those are what I'll call priceless

50:51

assets. And they're priceless because

50:53

you literally can't buy them with money. And

50:56

that I think life is primarily about

50:58

the pursuit of those priceless things. Right

51:01

now in my life, I feel like I have an

51:03

abundance of priceless things.

51:07

And so, and I

51:09

already have enough money. So, there's

51:11

this great question of like, well, why would

51:13

I want more money? Why would I want

51:15

to convert what I have into more money,

51:17

especially if, you know, selling the company or

51:19

changing my life would be really disruptive and

51:21

could potentially impact all these priceless things. You

51:23

know, community with the people that I work

51:25

with and have a sense of purpose and

51:27

meaning behind the job that I work. I

51:29

mean, even if you think about it, this

51:33

is an idea that most people, it's

51:35

counterintuitive. One of the reasons why

51:37

you build a company is to have something

51:40

to work on. And most

51:42

people don't get that. Do you have any idea?

51:44

I mean, like if I was 45 and

51:46

sitting on a beach, I would feel

51:48

so bored and I would feel so lost.

51:50

Like that, man, what am I doing? How

51:53

am I actually impacting anything? And

51:55

so one of the rewards

51:57

is actually that I get to every day. I get to. wake

52:00

up and it's like oh I have something meaningful

52:02

that I get to go and put my time

52:04

into today and that actually matters. And

52:07

so anyway, more or less, I'm

52:09

in a situation today because I've

52:11

tried to be exceptionally intentional about

52:13

creating an environment around

52:16

priceless things that

52:18

there is no appeal of more

52:20

money because the things I want

52:22

more of I can't buy and that

52:25

I already have a lot of them in my life.

52:27

And so now it's actually like I'm a lot

52:29

more concerned with maintaining the kind of healthy place

52:31

that my life is in and that's one of

52:33

the reasons why I'm like why would I sell

52:36

the company? I do think there is one

52:38

other piece which is like when you create something special

52:41

that the idea of giving somebody else who

52:43

might run it in a way that

52:45

is different or antithetical and you will

52:48

hear founders say this that

52:50

it is difficult to watch

52:52

somebody take something in a brand

52:54

or a name that has

52:56

come to stand for something in the mind of people

52:58

and then to make it not that.

53:01

So there's maybe a little bit of that but I think it's mostly

53:03

around this idea of priceless. Mike,

53:05

I have one more question before we go. I already

53:07

like to ask for a round two because this is

53:09

amazing and there's tons of stuff we didn't get to

53:12

but one more question okay. Okay.

53:14

So let's say that I'm the

53:16

president of your favorite university okay.

53:18

Okay. And I said Mike,

53:20

I'd like you to teach a leadership class and

53:22

it's going to be called the

53:24

most important thing. What

53:27

is the most important thing about

53:30

leadership? Oh man,

53:32

that's a great question. I

53:35

think it would be becoming a person worth following.

53:38

I think is ultimately what the class would be about and

53:40

it would be mostly about leading yourself. Okay.

53:45

So much of leadership really is

53:47

it's about example and it's

53:49

about us having people that we look up to

53:51

and we aspire to be like and that starts

53:53

with being the type of person that's worth following

53:56

and that leadership is not about

53:58

position. I said

54:01

this to somebody recently in

54:04

our organization. He basically was saying,

54:06

hey, if I had this title, I think

54:08

people would listen to me more or

54:12

I would have more influence. And I

54:14

just had to explain to him, that's not how it really works. It's

54:16

definitely not how it works here, but it's not really how it works

54:18

anywhere. We listen to people

54:20

and people have influence in our lives

54:22

because we respect them. We respect their

54:24

character, we respect their quality of thought,

54:26

and that influences us. We've all had

54:28

bosses that were quote unquote our leader

54:30

that we did not look up to

54:33

or listen to or take direction from

54:35

any more than we absolutely had to.

54:37

But we've also probably seen people in our life

54:39

that didn't have an official title, but man, we

54:42

longed to be more like them and

54:44

they inspired us to act different and to

54:46

be different. And so

54:48

that's probably what it would be about. And

54:52

I think it's probably the single biggest

54:54

misconception about leadership is that leadership is

54:56

primarily what we do outwardly with and

54:58

to other people. And

55:00

really it's primarily about who you are and

55:02

your person and becoming the type of

55:04

person that other people want to

55:06

follow and want to be more like. So

55:10

good, Mike, founder, CEO of Simple

55:12

Modern. I love this

55:14

conversation and I would love to continue

55:16

our dialogue, man, as we both progress.

55:18

This was awesome. Absolutely. Thanks

55:21

for having me. I

55:23

enjoy talking about these things so much

55:25

and to everyone listening just

55:27

to put a point on

55:29

something, a theme that was coming through the

55:31

conversation, you can be

55:33

this, right? And

55:36

one of the standards for me, I know I'm going over

55:38

on time, but I think it's a point that's really been

55:40

impactful to me. It's

55:42

not about perfection and any of the things we're

55:45

talking about. And in fact, if

55:47

you do make it about perfection, you're going to quit

55:49

because perfection is impossible. We're imperfect

55:51

people. It's about authenticity. It's about this

55:53

really being what you care about and

55:55

what your heart's about. And as long

55:57

as there's authenticity, people are going to...

56:00

want to follow you. They don't want to follow perfect

56:02

leaders. They want to follow real leaders and authentic leaders.

56:04

And so if you're listening to this, no

56:07

matter how daunting some of these ideas feel, if

56:10

you are authentically trying to apply them, it

56:12

will bear real fruit. Amazing.

56:14

Thank you so much, Mike. I really appreciate it, man.

56:17

Yeah. Thanks for having me on. It

56:21

is the end of the Podcast Club. Thank

56:23

you for being a member of the end of

56:26

the Podcast Club. If you are, send me

56:28

a note. Ryan at Learning Leader dot com. Let

56:30

me know what you learned from this great

56:32

conversation with Mike Beckham. A

56:34

few takeaways from my notes. The

56:37

professor Rufus Fiers started a

56:39

lecture. The first thing out of

56:41

his mouth was if you are here trying to

56:43

get a pink slip, I can tell you

56:45

that the class is full and there will be

56:47

no pink slips given. Mike

56:50

did not let that stop him. He stayed

56:52

in the class and then after class, he

56:54

talked with Professor Fiers, then he went to

56:56

his office after that. They had a great

56:58

conversation and he earned entry to his class

57:00

and a few others that he taught later.

57:03

I think this is a great lesson that

57:05

we need to be both proactive and always

57:07

taking initiative. We have to get after it.

57:09

We have to go for it. We

57:12

can't stop if there's something that

57:14

we want and Mike learned this early in

57:16

his life when speaking with

57:19

Professor Fiers. Next, is your identity

57:21

coming from a healthy place? Is

57:23

it coming from accomplishments or titles,

57:26

materialistic things, money? Have

57:29

you found your identity in

57:31

something bigger than yourself? A

57:33

well-defined purpose in identity almost

57:36

always stems from

57:38

helping other people. Then,

57:41

why leaders should have a writing

57:43

practice? There are multiple levels of

57:46

understanding. They are first you know

57:48

nothing, then you graduate to

57:50

you have an intuitive understanding of something but

57:52

you can't explain it to somebody else. Then

57:55

further along the lines, you are actually

57:58

behave in a deliberate way and you You can

58:00

explain it. That goes to a

58:02

point where you can understand a situation in real

58:04

time. And finally, you get

58:06

to the point where you can teach

58:09

it to someone else. A writing practice

58:11

can help clarify your thinking and then

58:13

help you better understand something so well

58:15

that you can teach it to others.

58:18

I think it's useful to

58:21

create a writing practice if you care

58:23

to influence people. Once again,

58:25

I would say thank you so much for continuing

58:27

to spread the word and telling your friend or

58:29

two, hey, you should listen to this episode of

58:31

The Learning Leader Show with Mike Beckham. I think

58:33

he'll help you become a more effective leader because

58:35

you do that. You also go to Apple Podcasts

58:37

in Spotify and you write a thoughtful review. You

58:39

subscribe to the show and you rate the show,

58:41

hopefully five stars. By doing all of

58:44

that, you are giving me the opportunity to

58:46

do what I love on a daily basis.

58:48

And for that, I will forever

58:50

be grateful. Thank you so, so much. Talk to

58:52

you soon. Bye.