0:00

I would say that the lightning process probably

0:02

did 80% of the work

0:05

in my recovery. The other stuff as

0:07

in the MCAS treatment, prescription

0:09

cannabis, the hyperbaric oxygen therapy or the

0:11

fasting, I would say that those were

0:13

all really helpful in getting my body

0:16

back to a healthy place and getting

0:18

the autoimmune stuff under control, getting the

0:21

underlying issues under control. Well

0:25

that as you might possibly recognize is

0:27

the voice of my eldest daughter Lily

0:30

and her chronic health

0:32

conditions and our joint search for

0:34

answers have led me to a

0:36

lot of the groundbreaking guests and

0:39

the conversations that I've had on

0:41

this very podcast. I'm

0:43

Liz Earle and this is the Liz

0:45

Earle Wellbeing Show and it's my mission

0:48

to find ways for all of us

0:50

to thrive in later life especially by

0:52

investing in our health and our well-being

0:54

today. What we heard

0:57

from evolutionary anthropologist Anna Machen

0:59

only a few weeks ago

1:01

just how vital relationships are

1:03

to our happiness and mental

1:05

well-being. So with Mother's Day

1:07

this weekend I wanted to

1:10

celebrate one of the most beautiful

1:12

relationships in my life and that

1:14

is the one I have with my daughter Lily. So

1:17

Lily is my firstborn, you may well

1:20

be following her on Instagram, you may

1:22

well be familiar with her story and

1:25

much of her story has influenced

1:27

my work here at Liz

1:29

Earle Wellbeing and it's been a

1:31

tricky one as you will hear

1:34

but our relationship has just

1:36

been strengthened by adversity and

1:38

she is possibly I think

1:41

one of the most courageous and most admired

1:44

people certainly by me that I know and

1:46

is truly inspirational so I'm delighted that she's

1:48

going to be with us today. Now if

1:50

you're a regular listener of course you may

1:52

already feel that you know a lot about

1:55

her because I do mention her in passing

1:57

quite a lot and that's because our exploration

1:59

of potential new treatments continually

2:01

open up my eyes to fantastic and

2:03

fascinating practitioners and practices that could be

2:05

of great benefit to all of us

2:07

as we age. In fact, you know,

2:09

I was getting off the train, I

2:11

think it was at Bath, not that

2:13

long ago, and a lady was getting

2:15

off with her daughter, a similar age

2:17

to Lily, and she looked up and

2:20

she did a double take, and she just tapped me

2:22

on the arm and she said, Liz,

2:24

I just wanted to say that it was because

2:26

of your podcast and listening to your

2:28

story about one of the treatments that

2:30

Lily was going through that we've actually

2:33

found some significant health relief for my

2:35

own daughter, in fact, we're just back

2:37

from London for a medical appointment today.

2:40

So I'm really thrilled

2:42

if many of the things that we

2:44

talked about on this podcast together have

2:46

actually helped your own health journey. Do

2:48

let me know and we can chat

2:50

at the end about ways to get

2:52

in touch. So today I want to

2:54

reflect on some of those topics we

2:56

talked about on the show before, everything

2:59

from medicinal cannabis to the lightening process,

3:01

fasting, and get the story

3:03

behind the story, if you like, how

3:05

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3:07

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Well, returns at mintmobile.com. Well,

4:31

Lily, my lovely one, welcome back

4:33

to my podcast. Hello, it's

4:36

so nice to be here. What a lovely

4:38

intro. Thank you. Well, I

4:40

mean every word and I

4:42

think it's so fascinating all

4:45

the things that you've been through and how

4:47

I've been able to expand on a lot

4:50

through the work of Liz. I will be

4:52

in with the podcast, obviously the magazine and

4:54

social media, et cetera. Let's

4:56

go back to the beginning, shall we?

4:58

Because we've never really talked, I guess

5:00

chronologically about you as a child growing

5:02

up, you know, were you a

5:04

healthy child? I mean, obviously I can think

5:07

of it from a mother's perspective, but looking

5:09

back, you know, we used to joke that

5:11

your favorite piece of clothing was a chubby

5:13

grip and that you had

5:16

an A&E loyalty card because you

5:18

were in there so often. But I never

5:20

thought of you as an ill child or

5:22

a sickly child. I've always seen quite red

5:24

eyes. How was it from your point of

5:26

view? You know, I do think I was

5:28

quite robust as a child. Certainly

5:30

not kind of sickly, I

5:32

don't think. I mean, I think

5:35

I remember more times putting my head on the radiator

5:37

to try and get out of school rather than actually

5:39

being sick. But

5:44

no, I did, you know, I did definitely have

5:46

a strong love affair with chubby

5:48

grip, which kind of makes sense because we

5:50

now know that one of my issues is

5:52

that I have hypermobile joints. So

5:55

running around on the playground and stuff, you do

5:57

roll over on your ankles and things like that.

6:00

which was very frustrating and

6:02

annoying. And I

6:05

mean, I don't know if this is actually true, but kind of looking

6:07

back on it, I do wonder if I kind of maybe

6:10

had a reputation for being a bit of a wimp

6:12

or something amongst my peers when I was younger, because

6:14

I was often injuring myself,

6:17

not being sickly as such, like not coming

6:19

down with lots of bugs or anything like

6:21

that, or being weedy

6:23

in any way, but certainly injuring

6:26

myself. And I don't think my

6:28

love for climbing trees and stuff

6:30

like that necessarily helped in that

6:32

department. No, so let's talk about

6:34

that. So you have something called Erlof-Danlos

6:37

syndrome, which we only discovered fairly recently,

6:39

otherwise known as sort of hypermobility. It

6:42

seems to often affect those with migraine. And

6:44

again, we can talk about that though. Yeah,

6:47

struggling there. So what

6:49

exactly is it and how does it manifest itself?

6:52

So there are different types of Erlof-Danlos. The

6:54

type that I have is a hypermobility

6:56

type, and that's where your

6:59

connective tissue throughout your

7:01

whole body, but obviously it presents itself

7:03

in a way that we kind of

7:05

see more in hypermobile joints. And

7:07

it can mean, thankfully, it's not the case for

7:09

me, but I had to have my heart checked

7:11

because sometimes your, what are they called? Like I

7:14

guess your ventricles and your aortas can be stretchier

7:16

than they should be. It can

7:18

cause things like IBS, which I do get, because

7:20

your best is stretchier than it should be. So

7:22

it's not pushing everything through as much as it

7:24

can be. And the reason

7:26

it impacts migraine, or at least one of

7:29

the reasons it impacts migraine is because your blood

7:31

vessels are stretchier than they should be. And

7:34

the pain from a migraine attack

7:36

is caused when the

7:38

blood vessels start dilating and

7:40

pulsating. And that's where you kind

7:42

of get this throbbing pain that comes from the actual dilating

7:45

and contracting of the blood vessels in your

7:47

brain. And because your blood vessels are stretchier

7:49

than they should be, they stretch more. Makes

7:51

sense. So that is something that you were

7:53

born with as

7:55

a genetic condition. At what point

7:57

in your journey, pain

8:00

in your illness journey was not actually diagnosed?

8:04

Oh it wasn't diagnosed until the end of 2021 officially

8:07

so I would have been 31, 30

8:09

but a few doctors

8:13

had said before that like oh you're probably

8:16

hypermobile or oh you might have like a

8:18

little bit of elastun loss like

8:20

not taking it very seriously I think generally as

8:22

a conditioner you're just kind of thought of as

8:24

being a bit stretchy and like oh

8:26

lucky you you can be more flexible.

8:28

You know often I see

8:30

sometimes ballet dancers and I

8:33

think a hyper portion of ballet dancers

8:35

probably have her off-dancels I see sometimes

8:37

these extraordinary yogis particularly on

8:40

Instagram you know performing these incredible

8:42

moves and you know for

8:44

a while I was thinking you know why can't

8:46

I be that flexible you know why can't you

8:48

see these amazing you know sort of

8:50

splits in the air and get my body to

8:52

work in that way but now I look at it

8:54

with a much more kind of measured eye

8:57

and I think oh my gosh I hope

8:59

you are aware that you could be hypermobile

9:01

you could have elastun loss and if you

9:03

are not careful over stretching your joints which

9:06

of course is something that you now know

9:08

not to do yeah you've got to be

9:10

really careful with them. It's going to set

9:12

you up potentially for some serious issues so

9:14

yeah I think when you know when you

9:16

see those extreme yogis you know it's it's

9:18

worth bearing in mind that it may be

9:20

a genetic condition that is not actually a

9:22

helpful one that that's enabling to do that. That's

9:24

enabling to do that in fact and

9:26

it's really interesting I think it

9:28

does affect women a lot more

9:31

than men and I

9:33

think women are generally thought of as being

9:36

more flexible like as little girls we do

9:38

ballet and we go to the gym and

9:40

stuff and like do

9:42

gymnastics. Of course gymnastics as well there's

9:44

amazing gymnasts but we see those Olympic

9:46

level gymnasts yeah very likely I would you

9:48

know put money on the fact that all

9:50

of them have some

9:52

yeah some forms yeah yeah so

9:55

it's if you're doing it properly and you're

9:57

treating it well and have all the I

10:01

imagine at a limbic level you'd have to, but

10:03

it might be a bit of a

10:05

blessing, but maybe something a bit helpful,

10:08

but you'd potentially be to having

10:10

joint damage and a lot of pain alongside that.

10:12

Well, of course, pain, unfortunately, has been

10:15

a massive theme

10:17

running through your health

10:19

journey. A lot of people

10:21

may well have listened to the podcast we've

10:23

done in the past on migraine. And

10:27

interestingly, migraine I only have recently

10:29

is genetic, has a genetic component.

10:32

Yeah. You have a migraine gene.

10:34

What was your story with migraine? I remember you

10:36

saying before that you first had an attack. Were

10:38

you at uni? I was at uni, yes. I was

10:40

19. And people

10:43

might not know this, but I actually used to be a teacher. And

10:46

I did a Bachelor of Education

10:48

at uni and a Bachelor of Postman's

10:50

and professional development whilst I was at uni.

10:53

And I was in my first postman's, which

10:55

was, I did fine, but it was

10:57

really brutal. I

11:00

was not working with a very nice teacher. I

11:02

was very stressed. And the tutor and mentor that

11:04

I had from the university told me that the

11:06

first year is designed to break the students that

11:09

won't make it. Oh my God.

11:11

Yeah, so it's a really, really nurturing

11:13

environment that I was in. And

11:17

I did. I had a first

11:20

migraine attack there. And

11:23

it was put down as I now know

11:25

that it was a migraine. And there was

11:27

kind of a question mark from the GP

11:29

whether or not it was a migraine or

11:31

tension headaches that I was getting because I

11:34

had a shoulder injury from a small accident

11:36

that year. So there

11:38

was kind of like, is it a

11:40

tension headache? Is it migraine? And so

11:42

I had a few through uni, but

11:45

they weren't really a big, I didn't really think anything of

11:48

it until later when I became chronic and was seeing

11:50

a neurologist and had to kind of like diarise the whole

11:52

thing and kind of could see over the years that they'd

11:55

slowly been getting. So they then

11:57

very quickly got progressively much worse. And

12:00

it was. You came to work for me

12:02

when I take a shot. little well they

12:05

knew my he added to so I will

12:07

and because you. Are very tacky know

12:09

you will say dyslexic. so evil with

12:11

used to screen and been very good

12:13

with tap yes ah which I think.

12:16

Perversely, May well have played a part

12:18

in that Because you spent your life on a

12:21

screen, you wouldn't want to be looking at screens

12:23

and we now know the impact of like you're

12:25

working on to any delights. Remember. Being

12:27

in a yeah in the boardroom. As yet Hust

12:29

magazine been a Welsh upset. well I'm

12:31

not rape yeah if it was it

12:34

was fluorescent white. Lysa is horrible at

12:36

all. Sat around a huge white shiny

12:38

table who the hell of a reflecting

12:40

back the slides and you are doing

12:42

a presentation using screens and I'm and

12:44

you can us that leasing in and

12:46

thirty class Yeah and it was such

12:49

a trigger on the course that was

12:51

all around the time as we have

12:53

to do the the Ttp ah compliant

12:55

the you were working as a small

12:57

i was on. screens, I

12:59

was going down the drain with with

13:01

a real computer stuff new law data

13:03

gassman and that was probably one of

13:05

the things that maybe get you over

13:07

the edge in actually made you have

13:09

you had to leave work at Napoli

13:11

didn't Emergency Invalid answer. Yes yes sir

13:13

I think the and I think it

13:16

hardly made my. Tolerance.

13:19

Should. Great trick is made a place

13:21

big cities to play experienced ha ha

13:23

ha ha ha. The due to distributed

13:25

between that you have a packet, a

13:27

connection, a kid and a chain of

13:29

your check. what the stage in a

13:31

some people might have and say like

13:33

oh if i drink red wine i

13:36

got my name something my thoughts about

13:38

their future either. although I'm into triggers

13:40

to try a. different

13:42

case balls. He didn't need. She

13:44

seemed to be to keep the A

13:46

B C is eat pizza threshold and

13:49

absolutely agree it is. It's the same

13:51

reason my pocket became very, very small

13:53

so it couldn't handle anything. So next.

13:58

to walk and eighty lights pledge trigger

14:00

a migraine. I mean just opening my eyes in

14:02

the morning would trigger a migraine towards

14:04

the end of it all. But yes I

14:07

was and that day at the Hearst offices

14:09

was my last day properly

14:12

at Lizzell-Wellbin because I did

14:14

I went home and I collapsed

14:17

and my neighbour had to break

14:19

down the front. I was on the phone to

14:22

Harry when I collapsed and he called our neighbour

14:24

who was a doctor and

14:26

he managed to break into our house and

14:29

called an ambulance and spoke with me until the

14:31

ambulance came. And I

14:34

took two weeks sick leave and then it was come for

14:36

Christmas holidays, Christmas break. I had some holiday booked in the

14:38

new year and I

14:40

remember saying to wonderful Polly, my

14:42

manager who still works at Lizzell-Wellbin,

14:45

oh I'm just going to pop to the doctor get everything

14:47

checked off and then I'll be right back and

14:50

we should be like business as usual. Which

14:52

is kind of my approach to the whole thing. It

14:55

was obviously a huge amount of pain and it

14:57

was getting so bad but I was trying to

14:59

be very much sweeping it under the rug approach

15:02

which definitely didn't help either. And

15:05

my GP was like no you're not going back to

15:07

work. So she signed me off for two

15:10

weeks which became four weeks which became eight

15:12

weeks which became three months which became five

15:14

years. And during that

15:16

time I have seen you in

15:18

such pain and such agony not

15:20

only with your head but these

15:23

full body knee grains. I

15:25

saw a post you did on your Instagram

15:28

not that long ago which was so

15:30

heartbreaking and it was saying

15:33

that you were grateful that day because you'd

15:35

had 30 minutes without

15:37

extreme pain. Yes,

15:40

so we've recently moved house

15:42

and we're unpacking boxes and

15:44

stuff amid renovation chaos and

15:47

I found this gratitude jar from

15:49

and this was from the

15:51

end of 2022 this one and

15:53

it had this little note on it and there was

15:56

things I was grateful for filled with

15:58

all these little notes and one of them was. that

16:00

in the morning it had taken 30 minutes for

16:03

the pain to start rather than it being immediately

16:05

when I opened my eyes. And

16:07

that's what I was grateful for, 30 minutes

16:09

without pain. And I've seen

16:11

you, I mean not just pain, but I've

16:14

seen you completely incapacitated on the floor, you

16:16

know, unable to move. And of course the

16:18

headaches developed into these dreadful things called pickaxe

16:20

headaches, which are as they

16:23

are described. And

16:25

so you couldn't drive because you were never

16:28

sure when a pickaxe headache might start and

16:31

you would literally be flawed. I mean,

16:33

it's like somebody's absolute a taser and

16:35

you're on the ground in extreme pain.

16:38

Yeah, completely. It's the worst

16:40

pain I've ever felt. And

16:42

actually one of

16:44

the, even called pickaxe or

16:46

eyes pick headaches, the

16:49

eyes pick headaches that I had towards

16:51

the end of my time with chronic illness

16:55

was the worst one I'd ever had. And

16:57

I thought I'd hit a 10 on pain before.

17:00

And I don't know, it was maybe like a 50.

17:02

I mean, the 10 out of 10 pain scale is

17:04

so unhelpful when it comes to chronic pain. But

17:07

I just was screaming on the kitchen floor

17:10

and I like, I would

17:12

have happily taken death at that point. Hadn't

17:14

shown up. Like anything.

17:17

This is so hard to listen to. And I

17:20

know. I

17:22

mean, I, I'm, and I apologize to

17:24

everybody listening because, but the story does have

17:26

a happy ending. So please stay with us. I

17:29

think, you know, one of the things

17:31

that you've also done over these years

17:33

is you built an extraordinary following on

17:36

your Instagram Liliel official. And

17:38

there are so many people out there

17:40

struggling with chronic pain. And

17:42

there are some helpful processes. And

17:45

actually when we were doing a

17:47

podcast on migraine, you

17:49

mentioned that you were highly allergic to

17:51

certain foods, one of which is avocado.

17:55

And you can't even Have a trace of

17:57

a knife that's been used to cut

17:59

an avocado in a ninety three had

18:01

now way for me go out of

18:03

here in restroom he was have to

18:05

say you know avocado It is a

18:07

serious no no. I then had a

18:10

message from a doctor who had listened

18:12

to the podcast answered billion Singapore Cost

18:14

And are you aware that avocados are

18:16

the highest form of histamine. Invaded.

18:18

Or. One of the highest have really

18:21

been checked for histamine intolerance. yeah,

18:23

I'm not set yourself or another.

18:25

Journey. Do. You remember

18:27

that? I do I remember say

18:29

well I'm and it would actually take a

18:32

that we will look down together and that's

18:34

right when we agreed to talk clutched a

18:36

new adventure and we have that and funny

18:38

at the time it was a real like

18:40

just another Iraq because. I. Get.

18:43

So. Many messages. And

18:45

so many well intentioned people.

18:48

Aren't This is a big. Problem for people

18:50

with a chronic illness or tank

18:53

additional effort and it does to

18:55

see the sentences people have you

18:57

tried. To

19:02

pull people. Me for his drinking water

19:04

when I would pick up my migraine

19:06

medication and it's like snow. I just

19:08

chose to be dehydrated and and daily

19:10

paying for five years. Thanks so much!

19:12

Yeah I mean I I I get

19:14

into their have really tried yoga, has

19:16

never tried that he or she has

19:19

never tried magnesium in an issue drinking

19:21

enough water is she sleeping while I'm

19:23

They all went offensive but each gosh,

19:25

you know anybody listening. And what's your

19:27

focus will realize the extreme level.

19:30

And we see out that some of that the

19:32

medication but interestingly so that that. Led us

19:34

into a whole examination of his

19:36

to me yesterday a letter yeah

19:38

to discover.a teen appears in into

19:40

an amazing that it wonderful that

19:42

at the end and she's been

19:45

held on the poor cost and.

19:47

Dot level possibly listen that isn't and

19:49

miller yeah yes I saw however is

19:51

wow you what atlas very much looking

19:53

at.health was never cannot she got half

19:55

a be yeah if we go back

19:57

in time even before uni you went

19:59

to. India and you

20:01

massively trashed your gut because you

20:04

got Jardia. I did, which went

20:06

on kind of story of so

20:08

many people who have chronic issues

20:10

and also recurring story in women's

20:12

health care in general is that

20:15

things are underappreciated or

20:17

under diagnosed and it

20:19

took a long time for me to be correctly diagnosed

20:21

with Jardia. You're right, that is how we came across

20:23

Lucinda. So Lucinda Miller, who has an

20:25

amazing, she's also been on the podcast.

20:27

She's the nature doc and she

20:29

does a lot of work with

20:32

kids particularly and neurodiversity

20:34

and gut health issues. And of course,

20:36

I think you were talking before about

20:38

this bucket that you fill up with

20:40

all these different things. When

20:42

you trace them back, it's a culmination,

20:44

isn't it? You were genetically predisposed, you

20:47

got Jardia, that trashed your gut. We didn't

20:49

realise it, it was untreated.

20:51

Potentially triggered the histamine-ish, which we're

20:54

about to talk about, the MCAT.

20:56

Potentially triggered that. So we discovered

20:58

Lucinda Miller, we discovered Dr Tina

21:00

Peirce. She then, I think,

21:02

diagnosed MCAT. She did, yeah,

21:04

mast cell activation syndrome. Mast cell activation

21:06

syndrome, which we're hearing a lot more

21:08

about these days. That then led us

21:11

to Professor Vik Kula and all

21:14

sorts of other journeys. Let's talk about

21:16

the MCAT. What is that? Again,

21:18

a bit genetic. Have you always had it

21:20

and how did that exacerbate the pain and

21:22

the issues that you were having? Yes,

21:25

so MCATs generally, certainly in

21:27

my case, I think probably in all cases,

21:29

it is genetic, but you're born predisposed to

21:32

it, but the gene has to be triggered

21:34

in some way, either through

21:36

trauma, stress, illness. Something

21:38

like that. And the fact that the

21:41

Jardia was really bad, it

21:43

was an agency, Lucinda, who was eventually,

21:46

like, was into

21:48

my body, accused me of it. I

21:50

was 25 when that happened and

21:53

I was 25 when the migraine started

21:55

getting bad and then 27 when the

21:57

weekend chronic. So I think it's quite a bit of a

21:59

problem. likely that the MCAS is triggered

22:02

by Giardia and exacerbated by

22:04

my stresses. So

22:08

MCAS basically means that your body

22:11

produces too much histamine and

22:13

also that you can't break it down

22:15

effectively so it becomes a toxic level

22:17

in your body. And again

22:19

they use the button analogy a

22:22

lot in MCAS treatment because if

22:24

you have too much histamine

22:26

in your body, like it's not just

22:28

bee stings and metal rushes and stuff

22:30

like that, it's in food, it's pot,

22:32

it's a neurotransmitter that uses

22:34

to digest food, it's released

22:37

when we're stressed, it's released and very

22:39

helpful in loads of situations in our body.

22:41

But I was producing a too much

22:43

of it, couldn't break it down so

22:46

it became toxic in my body and

22:48

anything in certain limits is toxic to

22:50

the body. And this,

22:54

I don't know what its uniqueness is,

22:56

but the thing is that one of

22:58

the symptoms of interest or having too

23:00

much histamine in your body is if

23:03

you already get migraines they become worse

23:05

or out of control. And when

23:07

I went to the National Migraine Centre

23:09

and saw Dr Katie Monroe, who you've also had

23:12

on your class, but

23:15

it was kind of listed right at the bottom of this

23:17

kind of like, this is something we're exploring,

23:19

this was a few years before I was diagnosed,

23:22

it kind of listed as like, oh maybe this

23:24

is something we're exploring, there might be a connection

23:26

with migraine and now the connection is much

23:29

more well established. It is, yeah. Yeah I

23:31

think so. And of course during all of

23:33

this you were seeing so many medics, you

23:37

know you were seeing confirmation therapies, you were

23:39

seeing so many, you were under a top

23:41

Harley Street neurologist, I think he

23:44

described you as I think his

23:46

most difficult to treat patient, his

23:48

most troubled case or most troubled

23:51

patient, with headaches, he did the specifications,

23:53

I was like that's an awesome thing to

23:55

say and he did specify with headaches because

23:57

obviously he sees some really nasty stuff. Yeah

23:59

I mean. that is not an award that

24:01

you want to be winning, is it really?

24:03

Not from a consultant neurologist, not really. No,

24:05

and that's been referred to so many. And

24:07

at one point, you were also referred to

24:10

a rheumatologist, you were diagnosed with rheumatoid arthritis,

24:12

is that right? It's serous negative inflammatory arthritis,

24:15

which is the type of rheumatoid arthritis that

24:17

doesn't show up with a blood test. So

24:20

I was tested for it many times,

24:22

and then had it dismissed because the

24:24

bloods came back negative. But there's

24:26

this other subtype that doesn't show up in the

24:28

blood. And is there anything else

24:30

that you were diagnosed with that I've

24:32

missed here? I think I have five.

24:36

Chronic migraine cluster headaches, which are

24:39

like, which are like migraines, really

24:41

evil, cousin, allostamulose and cast serous

24:43

negative inflammatory arthritis. Yeah, five. I

24:46

think it's all one thing, but

24:48

because our medical

24:50

system, the way it works is that we

24:53

divide the body up, and that you have different

24:55

specialists doing different things. I

24:58

think it's all one

25:00

autoimmunity thing. But that's how

25:03

it is diagnosed. Yeah. And during

25:05

this whole journey, you also,

25:07

which you've talked about on Instagram

25:09

and been incredibly brave about

25:12

sharing, you've also been through the

25:14

pain of five miscarriages. I

25:17

have, yes. Yeah. And presumably, there's

25:19

a connection with your medical history with

25:21

what was going on inside your body

25:23

that you couldn't sustain at a healthy

25:25

pregnancy? Potentially a bit of both.

25:29

We only know the reason for one of the

25:31

miscarriages. My daughter, Aquila,

25:34

died because she had an extra chromosome.

25:36

And that's just bad luck. But

25:39

the pregnancies that happened that were

25:41

lost much earlier, were probably

25:43

because I couldn't sustain a

25:45

pregnancy, or maybe

25:47

there was another chromosomal issue, although there's

25:50

nothing that's, you know, we had all the genetic

25:52

tests and stuff. And that didn't show that there

25:54

was anything. Any

25:56

reason why it would be a recurrent issue? connection.

26:00

I remember at one point you were prescribed

26:02

progesterone. Yeah so if

26:05

you have more than three

26:07

miscarriages or you have three miscarriages you're

26:09

diagnosed with a current miscarriage and

26:11

then you are given

26:13

progesterone for the first,

26:16

I was given it for the first 16 weeks

26:18

of pregnancy. I think maybe they're taking it down to

26:21

12. Anyway for the beginning of

26:23

pregnancy you're done prescribed

26:25

routinely progesterone and aspirin

26:27

and that's not because I specifically

26:29

had anything that's just because the data

26:31

shows that in cases that it

26:33

helps. But yeah so there

26:36

wasn't necessarily a hormonal thing for me I

26:38

just think my body is

26:40

quite sensible and improving you at the right

26:42

time. And there is this thing

26:44

with autoimmunity, it's not something I was ever interested for

26:46

but it was kind of next on the list. When

26:49

you have an autoimmune condition

26:51

you have a sentosinovusinulus immune

26:53

system and so they can

26:56

produce something called natural killer

26:58

cells which target the anaerovitis

27:00

thinking that it's an invader causing

27:03

a miscarriage. So that was something

27:05

that was kind of recommended to me as

27:07

the next port of call. Well I am

27:09

very pleased to say that the reason that

27:12

you are able to sit

27:14

here and have

27:16

this in-depth conversation with

27:19

a smile on your face is that

27:21

there has been a definite uptick

27:23

in your health and

27:25

you are newly back on Instagram actually. And

27:28

you know one of the things that I

27:30

loved about your Instagram throughout all of this

27:32

is that you really were

27:34

able to encourage people by

27:36

saying that joy and sorrow can

27:39

coexist. We're going to

27:41

take a quick break now but I

27:43

think let's come back and talk about

27:45

how you have been able to be

27:47

lifted out of the mire and

27:49

talk through some of the things that have

27:51

really helped and will hopefully

27:54

encourage and help others too. Hey

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Slows. mintmobile.com. So

29:23

let's now focus on the positive. We've

29:25

talked about so many of the doctors

29:28

that you've seen, and obviously we've covered

29:30

a lot here in the past before.

29:33

One of the things I mentioned actually in the

29:35

intro was medicinal cannabis. Yes. I

29:38

did an interview with Professor

29:40

David Nutts. Yes, for Imperial

29:42

College. And after

29:45

that, he's an amazing man and he

29:47

has a great website called drugscience.org.

29:50

Very much an advocate for medicinal cannabis.

29:52

We've also had Mary Biles on the

29:54

show talking about medicinal cannabis. And

29:57

it was following my podcast actually with Professor

29:59

Nutts. that we managed to

30:01

get you medicinal cannabis. It wasn't

30:03

easy, but you did manage to get it.

30:05

No, through drug science. Through drug science. And what difference

30:08

did that make you? That was

30:10

a real turning point

30:12

in my journey. Before then, I

30:14

was self-medicating with street cannabis and

30:18

it was not, it was

30:21

like, it was not a pleasant experience. Like when

30:23

you compare it to medicinal cannabis, it

30:25

was obviously doing the job of

30:28

taking away the pain. It was mainly

30:30

just stopping me caring about the pain. And

30:32

obviously when you were smoking street cannabis, I

30:36

was smoking it instead of vaping it, which isn't

30:38

good for you. But also you've

30:40

got the radioactive compounds that are sprayed

30:42

on it, the artificial ones, plus it's

30:44

going to be probably a skunk variety,

30:46

which means it has very high pH,

30:48

so you're going to get more of the

30:50

side effect. Not something you want to be

30:52

doing at any point ever. No, no. And

30:55

the difference then with medicinal cannabis is what?

30:57

Oh, it was great. So

31:00

my brain stayed clearer. Obviously if

31:02

I was in real pain and having to take

31:04

quite a high dose, then there would be a

31:06

psychoactive side effects. There's no getting away

31:08

from that because it's pain to see.

31:11

But it was

31:13

soon, so much more

31:16

mellow, if that's the right word. And did

31:18

it actually relieve the pain? And it

31:20

actually relieved me the pain rather than just stopping

31:22

me from caring about the pain. That was the main

31:24

difference. And also I was prescribed

31:26

two different types, depending on the time of

31:28

day to take it. So I could either take, have

31:30

a night one, which would also help me sleep, because

31:33

obviously when you're in a lot of pain, it really

31:35

disrupts your sleep. And before

31:38

the street cannabis, I was just getting stoned

31:40

so I could sleep rather than having

31:42

the pain taking away so I could sleep.

31:44

And then they gave me one, which was

31:46

a daytime cannabis that allowed me to kind

31:48

of, that kept me energized

31:50

and perky, just to take totally different strains.

31:53

And I also had an oil

31:55

to take preventatively. So that was

31:57

kind of like a background level.

31:59

which doesn't affect, have for me any

32:01

kind of psychoactive effects. And then if

32:04

I needed extra, then I had these day

32:06

or night weeds too. And

32:08

then at what point did you see,

32:10

I think, did you see a neurosurgeon

32:12

who said, Lily, I think actually,

32:14

because you were on, I think, nine different types

32:17

of very strong medication. I mean, you can run

32:19

through the list perhaps for what you were taking,

32:21

who actually said, I

32:24

think actually your medication is part of the

32:26

problem. Yeah, so he was

32:28

an astorectal surgeon, gastroenterologist surgeon. I don't

32:30

know. I'm pretty sure I had rectal

32:32

in it, but it always made me

32:34

chuckle. Curleractal.

32:38

Yes, exactly. Something like that. And he

32:40

was actually amazing. He was so good

32:42

and very holistic in his

32:45

approach, which is quite rare

32:47

to find in my experience, especially from

32:49

surgeons, rather than kind of immediately wanting

32:51

to get you onto the table, at

32:54

least in my experience. And he

32:56

did, this was in, this

32:58

was mid 2022. And we

33:02

went back through and I was having this real

33:04

agonizing stomach pain.

33:07

Yes, because you developed ulcers and

33:09

all sorts of, you know, gastric

33:11

issues because of all the medication

33:13

you were having to take. Well, that's what they

33:16

thought it was, because I didn't actually have ulcers.

33:18

What happened is that the

33:20

neurons in my gut and like your

33:22

brain, gut access became so sensitive that

33:25

any form of gas

33:27

or irritation in my stomach

33:29

became excruciatingly painful to

33:31

the extent that because a

33:34

family member on the other side of

33:36

the family had had a aortic aneurysm

33:38

and the pain that I was having was

33:40

kind of in the center of my torso. I was actually rushed to

33:43

hospital with the same condition. I

33:45

was having aneurysm and

33:48

it was so incredibly painful. And it turns

33:50

out that we sat down together,

33:52

the surgeon and I, and he went through

33:54

the history of this abdominal pain, because I'd been

33:57

seeing him on and off for about two years With

33:59

very. Mccain,

34:04

it doesn't. Really unable

34:06

to find any explanation of

34:08

the potentially has caused by

34:10

the medication and. He said that

34:12

it to the medications I was

34:14

on which has to do with

34:16

the histamine to can encourage. Women

34:19

to cause. The

34:29

thing is t. To

34:32

V and. And. So

34:34

he recommended that I came off this

34:36

medication and he certainly doesn't He said

34:38

lenny, i'm going to do you what

34:41

else is was written and about nine

34:43

out of ten. Really complex cases.

34:45

You look at some points on

34:47

the line a doctor with the

34:49

best intentions and the best known

34:51

as know that they will make

34:53

a mistake because. This. Is a

34:56

really complex. To the sheep. Somewhere

34:59

along the way you describe this medication.

35:01

this. medications. And

35:04

I believe that's what's making your. Stomach.

35:07

Pain was a lot. She was.

35:09

Causing the summer pay that much

35:11

about. A year and so hard. To.

35:14

Was a horrible I didn't have any. It

35:16

felt like. The kind of grounded a full of

35:18

our plenty of and I think you'd be debilitating.

35:21

To. Make you Wow has been making

35:23

you are. Today he was and

35:25

also because they're with the History medication and

35:27

we knew that the histamine. Has

35:30

really have that diagnosis and

35:32

treatment had really helped thought.

35:34

It was a different medication I've switched

35:36

to thought that that was that making

35:38

the last and. I prefer the

35:40

to death and I went home and

35:43

my sister and her husband had arrived

35:45

and they were staying in the Us.

35:47

that the i think about to be the

35:49

fried and they were staying with us the

35:51

weekend and they asked me how the appointment

35:53

man sent through the tulips and i hadn't

35:56

like i'd be keeping all and i hadn't

35:58

in x played against ernie banks and i

36:00

ended up sobbing and screaming in the corner

36:02

of my kitchen. It wasn't my finest moment. I

36:04

think they were kind of a bit, I mean my sister-in-law

36:07

actually cried. I think they

36:09

were a bit kind of, I don't know, star-swilled

36:11

by it all, but it was, it

36:13

was horrible and then I had to come off

36:16

this medication which of course then disrupts everything

36:18

and I spent about two

36:20

months that time. This obviously,

36:22

as you know, happened a lot throughout this journey.

36:30

I remember you had one, I don't know whether it

36:32

was Judoxitine or... It

36:37

was. Okay, yeah. My

36:39

nemesis. And when you get

36:41

those little capsules they have lots of 100 little

36:43

granules in them and you

36:45

had to take one granule out. Was it one

36:47

granule out a week or one granule per

36:49

day? I think I took five per

36:52

week or something like that. Five granules. So

36:54

I remember being away with you one time

36:56

and you were opening up these capsules and you

36:58

were counting out the granules and you were down to

37:00

like the last five granules. And

37:03

even then I couldn't just stop it. Even then you

37:05

can't just stop. And when I tried to come off

37:08

Gabapentin I ended up using these

37:11

almost seizure-like episodes because I think

37:13

it is used as an anti-seizure

37:15

medication or an anti-twitch medication

37:18

and so by turning off this it was

37:20

giving me these ticks and I just learned

37:22

that shaking and failing completely

37:24

in control of the paper at the night and

37:27

I would have seen it and I would have

37:29

controlled my body. It's really terrifying. And

37:31

also having at that point diagnosed

37:34

neurological condition I was like, oh gosh, is this

37:36

just the next step in whatever thing

37:39

I'm dealing with? Is there

37:41

some sort of degradation going on here? At

37:43

any point did you lose hope?

37:45

Did you think this

37:47

is getting worse and worse and worse? I'm

37:49

destined to a life of pain and I

37:54

just can't cope with this anymore. It's

37:59

very hard to question. The answer to your mother.

38:02

But yes, Yeah. Adam.

38:05

Yeah. I mean. Those.

38:08

Of the yeah those the last time I wanted out.

38:11

Can. Say. You're.

38:14

Not as he set you up. He I'm

38:17

one of the things that we have. I

38:19

discovered and that you've done that. We talked

38:21

about here again on the poker. Is

38:24

the lightning Crisis? And. We had

38:26

our and sunni on the so following

38:28

yeah your session with us talk us

38:30

through the lighting process. How did you

38:32

find this? In the first place in What

38:34

Benefit does it when you say. In

38:37

the taste a sentence

38:39

Food really different. Got

38:42

clinch the thief. Was

38:44

really struggling to recover. I'm pretty something

38:47

to do in anything should have cut

38:49

I guess maybe pets files that he

38:51

or chronic fatigue. After recovering

38:53

from as she did this pretty.

38:55

Strange in therapy called the

38:57

lightning prices. And for some

38:59

reason that voice remember that because it

39:02

was such. A hurry.

39:04

Up and I know could have

39:06

a few other people have the

39:08

has done that. And I was

39:11

listening to a Pulp Cost about

39:13

the role of neural plasticity in

39:15

chronic pain, on how. We.

39:17

Can help our brains could they

39:19

are effect throughout the whole online.

39:25

Changeable to meet with other. Diseases

39:29

six with people to. Feel

39:32

safe spaces was to appeal

39:34

of heat. In

39:37

before. Picking things up, he

39:39

smiles the himself and then

39:42

do whatever. It was that he needed

39:44

to do so. He was giving his bullshit his plane

39:46

sixty keys rather than my own. I got a purpose

39:48

of i hope my my that if he had carried

39:50

a. Be ready painful see a pre empting the

39:52

pain. so then you're more. likely to feel great

39:54

to be like oh i need to produce pain

39:57

because we have to protect the back of enough

39:59

of the And

40:01

so I started smiling whenever

40:04

I was in pain. My

40:06

husband got really freaked out because

40:09

it was just like this grimace on my face

40:12

to begin with. And I

40:14

was really trying and kind of trying to help

40:16

my body feel safe and

40:18

obviously this feeling of real extreme

40:21

unsafeness, because obviously when you're in pain the whole

40:23

time you do not feel safe. And

40:25

also I've done kind of

40:28

mindfulness courses and mindfulness of

40:30

pain and kind of real.

40:33

Trying to do like the brain first approach

40:35

as well with my pain as well as

40:38

the medication and all that sort of

40:40

thing. And then I spoke to Dr.

40:42

Louise Newsom's daughter who had just

40:44

done the lightning press. Yes, she has.

40:47

Yes. Because she also has this with

40:49

chronic migraine. Yes. And we were at

40:51

the Live Twice Carol concert. It

40:53

was December 2022. I

40:55

was at one of my illness points that

40:57

has fluctuated over the last five years. And

41:00

I was really very, very poorly. And I

41:03

told her about the prescription cannabis and stuff.

41:05

And she was telling me about the lightning

41:07

process. And she was saying how she's working on

41:10

her neuroplasticity. And I was like, well, interesting. I just

41:12

don't know what goes for it. And then she was

41:14

like, yeah, I did this thing called the lightning process.

41:16

Have you heard of it? And I had no idea. I

41:18

just knew it was kind of the strange thing my friend had

41:20

done to help her recover from the Down to the Fever. I

41:23

didn't know that it was about pain or

41:26

neuroplasticity at all. And so she

41:28

sent me Lawrence details. And that's

41:30

when I decided to do

41:32

the lightning process. Really kind

41:34

of out of desperation, which is how

41:37

most people find the lightning process. Sure. The

41:40

last resort, which shows just how incredibly

41:42

profoundly effective it is if you come

41:44

to it as a last resort. What

41:46

difference has that made to you? I

41:48

would say that the lightning process probably did

41:50

80% of the work in my recovery.

41:52

Oh my gosh. Really? Yeah,

41:55

yeah, yeah. I would say that

41:57

the other stuff is in the NCAS treatment.

42:00

the prescription cannabis, we also, we haven't

42:02

spoken about the health of oxygen therapy.

42:05

I would say that they were all

42:07

really helpful in getting

42:09

my body back to a

42:11

healthy place and getting the autoimmune

42:13

source into control, getting the endelianic

42:15

issues into control. But really the

42:17

way it's been declared in many

42:19

cases is you, it's been holding

42:21

a rubber under water and

42:23

then you reverse the rubber to get shipped and be put

42:26

to the surface. But for whatever

42:28

reason, there are issues that have been chronic

42:30

to so long, result. And there's

42:32

no longer an acute reason why. So

42:35

if I said you damaged your knee and then

42:37

your knee is put to the surface and you

42:39

keep getting pain in it, there's no strict reason

42:41

why your knee should be in pain. But

42:44

your body is remembering that

42:46

pain and has wired to produce, rewired

42:48

it to produce those pain signals. And

42:50

so for whatever reason, the rubber depth

42:52

is going to the water and it's

42:54

like it's been building with me. So

42:57

for today, these weeds are not that

43:00

important. So you're trying to tell the

43:02

body to pass on the other side

43:04

of the brain and the rubber depth can bounce back

43:06

up to the top and you can start working with

43:08

a kind of normal or as close to normal as

43:10

possible nervous system again. And is that something that you

43:12

still do? Is it ongoing or is it sort of

43:14

a one fix? No. So

43:16

you learn the, well, you learn

43:19

first of all the science behind us is a three

43:21

day course and then you

43:23

learn the actual process and it's

43:25

essentially a way of coaching yourself

43:28

and coaching your nervous system back

43:31

into feeling safe and

43:33

secure and comfortable and positive.

43:37

And so you're rewiring those I'm

43:39

not safe, I know pain messages.

43:42

Well, I am safe, I can be comfortable, I

43:44

am comfortable. So

43:46

you're rewiring those messages. So it is an

43:48

ongoing thing. I still do it

43:51

on a daily basis. Well, let's touch

43:53

on two other things briefly before

43:55

finishing with some really, really

43:57

good news. Yes. So

44:00

you mentioned that hyperbaric oxygen

44:02

therapy, HVOT, and fasting. Let's

44:05

talk about HVOT first. I

44:08

was invited to experience hyperbaric

44:11

chamber for my work, at

44:13

least I will be, I don't know, a year

44:15

or two ago. And then

44:17

you went along. And what

44:20

difference did that make to you? And do you

44:22

want to just explain for those who aren't familiar

44:24

with it, what's involved? Yes,

44:26

so I ended up, first of all, I went

44:28

to the clinic that you went to. And then

44:31

after we moved out, I went to one

44:33

locally, which was actually run out of a multiple

44:36

sclerosis charity center, but they allowed

44:38

people with chronic pain to come

44:40

and use the facilities because it's

44:42

getting really good traction in other chronic

44:44

issues and chronic diseases. And

44:47

I found that it really

44:49

helped with my energy levels. And

44:52

because that was, I was just

44:55

exhausted all the time. Of course,

44:57

exhausted being in pain. Exhausting being

44:59

in pain. It's quite strange not

45:01

having to like nap all the time. I

45:04

have so much time to do things. And

45:07

it did, it did help with my, with my

45:09

pain levels as well. So I

45:11

went and set in the build

45:13

up to sitting in a chamber that is

45:15

double the atmospheric pressure. It's a bit

45:18

like going down in a diving bell. Yes, I would

45:20

imagine so. It feels like you're going on an airplane. I

45:22

don't have been in a diving bell. So,

45:24

yeah, but you feel like your

45:27

ears pop. You're under pressure. Exactly.

45:29

You feel like you can feel there's a

45:31

change in atmospheric pressure. And then

45:34

you're breathing in 100% oxygen

45:36

through a seriously

45:38

well snugly fitted mask. So

45:40

I kind of had tiger stripes

45:42

down my face for three weeks. And

45:47

I sat in this tank for either

45:49

90 minutes, two hours a day. It

45:52

was really full on. And that's

45:54

really amazing that the multiple sclerosis

45:56

charities are having these

45:58

centers. around the country

46:00

and that they will open themselves up.

46:02

I mean, I've been looking at hyperbaric

46:04

oxygen therapy for a while now with

46:06

lots of different conditions and this

46:09

hyperoxygenation of the blood does seem to

46:11

be extraordinarily restorative for so many conditions.

46:13

Great, but it's been helpful. Is that

46:16

something that you continue to do or

46:18

will go back to perhaps in the

46:20

future? I think if anything ever

46:23

started flaring up, it would be one of the first

46:25

things that I'd go and do, yes. But it's not

46:27

something that I continue. I

46:29

say it helped with my energy levels. It took

46:31

a while to get the actual process.

46:34

Initially when you start using the chambers,

46:37

it's very tiring, it's very tiring. So

46:39

it's not something that I do. I

46:42

was doing, I was doing a talk of

46:44

like maintenance sessions, but it's not something that

46:46

you would do regularly, no. I

46:48

think because it's so intense

46:50

in specific chambers, whereas

46:53

you get ones that aren't, you know, you're not

46:55

under quite so much pressure. Yes, you can have

46:57

one for more sort of wellbeing and

47:00

wellness. Exactly, they're more wellbeing focused rather

47:02

than treatment focused, yeah. And then lastly,

47:04

you know, talking about treatments, one

47:07

of the things that I encouraged you

47:09

to do was the extreme fasting. Yeah,

47:12

that took a while to come to me. You

47:15

weren't entirely thrilled with the idea when I

47:17

first suggested it. So I went to the

47:19

clinic in Germany to start with booking your

47:21

Willamie, which is because of the fathers of

47:24

medical fasting. It's an amazing medical

47:27

center run by fourth generation, now

47:29

family doctors. And when I was

47:31

interviewing one of the centers,

47:35

research doctors, she was saying

47:37

how they had extraordinary success with

47:40

people with migraine coming. Yes, they

47:42

had. I forget their actual stats, but they

47:44

were really impressive. You know, I think she

47:46

said that they had something like 800

47:49

chronic migraine sufferers through

47:51

their doors. And I

47:54

think all but six of them had

47:56

never had another migraine again. It

47:58

was some astonishing. Yeah. I was

48:00

impressed. For accessory, yes, or dramatic

48:03

improvement. And so I came

48:05

back and was absolutely convinced that this

48:07

is the way ahead for you. And

48:09

I said, listen, you know, if we can get them

48:11

to take you, because obviously you've got to have a

48:14

medical analysis and make

48:16

sure that you're up for it and you can

48:18

actually be set enough to get on a plane

48:20

and get there, you know, will you go and

48:22

pass for two weeks? And

48:24

they do warn you that when you do this,

48:27

you will experience possibly the worst

48:29

migraine ever at the beginning. It was hideous.

48:32

So you did actually go, didn't you? And

48:34

how did I think it took about five months of

48:37

you lovingly banging on about

48:39

it? Because

48:42

it's something that you're told when you're

48:44

managing migraine disease is that you do

48:46

not let your blood sugar fluctuate because

48:49

blood sugar dropping or

48:51

rising too quickly can be a

48:53

very common and well-known, well-documented trigger

48:56

of a migraine attack, which is

48:58

obviously initially why when you go

49:00

fast, it's so hideous because

49:03

you do get this really bad attack at

49:05

the beginning. So I've always said I'd

49:08

recommend it, but with a serious, serious

49:10

content warning. But no,

49:12

I did eventually go and do it and

49:15

it was really helpful. And you have written

49:17

about it, actually. There's a very good piece

49:19

on the well-being website, the well-being.com, if anybody

49:21

wants to have a look and you

49:23

also wrote about it, I think, Forget the Gloss as well.

49:26

Forget the Gloss and Red magazine. And Red magazine, yeah, you

49:28

covered it for them. And I

49:30

think reading that, it is hardcore.

49:33

You have to be prepared that you

49:35

are seriously going into something extreme. But

49:37

of course, the medical team there are

49:39

used to that and they're incredibly

49:42

caring. You

49:44

really can feel it's not a

49:46

spa. It's a proper therapeutic

49:48

clinic. And you have

49:50

a 24-hour nursing team with a bedside call

49:52

valve. Yeah. Therapeutic

49:54

medication, things available 24-7, run by

49:56

doctors. So it

49:59

is very... a safe process.

50:01

But you do trigger autophagy, you do

50:04

trigger the state of fasting, which again

50:06

we've talked about on this podcast. In

50:08

fact we've had Francois Willemies of Toledo,

50:10

who is one of the medical directors

50:12

at Brooklyn Willemies. She's been here talking,

50:14

that's Jason Fung of course, and Megan

50:17

Ramos on the show, talking about intermittent

50:19

fasting, which is the softer

50:21

end, time restricted eating, and he

50:23

having perhaps two meals a day

50:25

or whatever. Coming back from the clinic, did

50:27

you then continue with intermittent fasting?

50:30

Has that been part of your continued

50:33

trajectory back into wellness? Yes

50:35

it was. So when you

50:38

do this fasting for an

50:40

autoimmune condition or inflammatory conditions

50:42

and stuff, they recommend that

50:44

you fast for quite a

50:46

long time. They have very long

50:49

fasting packages. You can go for months,

50:51

can't you? For months, yeah, yeah, I

50:53

think they recommend at least 21 days

50:55

or something like that for a chronic

50:57

condition. And so

50:59

rather than doing that, my

51:01

doctor, I think she's called

51:03

Dr. Seidler, she was fantastic

51:05

at the clinic. We worked

51:07

out a kind of return

51:10

to eating schedule that would

51:12

continue mimicking the effects of fasting.

51:14

So we used intermittent fasting and

51:16

then also eating a ketogenic diet

51:18

to keep the protein and ketosis.

51:20

I forgot that you went into keto.

51:23

Yes, yeah, because you go into keto as

51:25

part of the fasting process anyway, so you

51:28

can then keep that going once you leave

51:30

the clinic by following ketogenic diet. And also

51:32

at the time I was still having to

51:35

follow a low histamine diet as well, so

51:37

I was having to do a low histamine

51:39

ketogenic intermittent fasting diet. Oh my gosh. I

51:41

think I lasted about a month, which was

51:44

pretty good going I thought. So yeah,

51:46

so the idea was to do that for

51:48

at least a few weeks after leaving the

51:50

clinic to extend its benefits without me having

51:53

to stay hardcore fasting for a really

51:55

long time and kind of away from home and stuff for

51:57

a really long time. And then all the other sorts of

51:59

little things. things like you used to

52:01

be involved with Star Wars 10 LED

52:04

masks, using red light

52:06

and using infrared sauna,

52:09

again using that red light and I

52:11

bought an infrared sauna for home

52:13

use largely. I love it.

52:15

Well, I mean, yeah, I mean partly because I thought

52:17

that's going to stimulate my own collagen and help me

52:20

live well for longer. But one of the

52:22

main reasons of me buying that, it's quite

52:24

an investment of a piece of kit, is

52:27

the fact that you could come and session it

52:29

and get pain relief. Did you find that that

52:31

was helpful? It was really helpful.

52:33

And it's one of the main reasons I started working

52:35

with Sir return. For those who do

52:38

follow me on Instagram, they might have seen that

52:40

I announced that I'm actually no longer working

52:42

with Sarah anymore for a variety of reasons. But

52:45

the near infrared light for

52:48

pain relief is really extraordinary,

52:50

what it can do. And

52:53

it was my first my

52:55

first experience of that was with the

52:57

cell return mask, both

52:59

because my skin was looking so gray

53:01

and I mean, I was looking I

53:04

was ill. So I was just looking

53:06

really, yeah, it was quite

53:08

a pressing day after day to be like faced

53:11

in the mirror with this kind of gray version of

53:13

yourself. And a

53:15

friend of mine who is an

53:17

aesthetic surgeon had heard about cell

53:20

returns work and she was telling me about how

53:22

near infrared can be good for pain. And at

53:24

the time I was having cluster headaches, which affect

53:26

kind of the side of your face. So I

53:28

was getting a lot of facial pain as well

53:30

as the head pain. And so

53:33

we decided to ship one over. You could only

53:35

get them in self-career at the time. And

53:37

we decided to ship one over together. I'm going

53:39

to see how it benefited my skin, but also

53:41

to see the pain relief. And the

53:44

technology is truly extraordinary and

53:47

how it helps with kind of wound healing. And

53:50

yes, well, I love mine. Yeah,

53:53

not where it's devised. Yeah, I

53:55

mean, just is amazing. Really fantastic.

53:57

So it's a wind healing and.

54:00

the skin you know I certainly credit it with

54:02

helping to keep my skin looking young

54:05

and I keep thinking of

54:07

all these things love that you've been doing

54:09

and that are helpful I mean that's cold,

54:12

cold exposure. You and I signed

54:14

up to the Serpentine Make

54:16

filming club in London you

54:20

know and because I really wanted you to

54:22

get into cold water because I had read

54:24

that that would help with migraine pain and

54:26

you said to me I don't want to

54:29

go you know and I said fine I'll

54:31

come with you and that was kind of

54:33

part of my journey. That was my ruse

54:35

the whole time. You know let's get into

54:37

this together and you know we used to go

54:39

in the winter it was freaking cold and

54:42

cold and you used to say at the time that

54:44

those couple of minutes literally

54:46

of being in super cold water a

54:48

full body emulsion was the

54:50

only time in the day that you didn't feel pain. Yes

54:54

yeah it was extraordinary actually

54:56

discovering the like real cold

54:58

water therapy and it was

55:00

the only time that I wasn't in pain and

55:02

also my husband's parrots

55:05

lived in the sea on the south coast and

55:07

so I would go in the dead of winter

55:09

and swim in the sea down there and they

55:11

all initially thought I was mad

55:13

and then when I explained to them like it's

55:15

the it's the only time I'm not in pain

55:18

is when I'm in the water and

55:20

a very good friend of theirs

55:23

he sadly passed away from brain

55:25

cancer and again he

55:27

used to go down to the water because

55:29

he lived near them and he used to

55:31

get out in the water and again it

55:34

seemed like he wasn't in pain was when

55:36

he was in the cold water yeah it's

55:38

extraordinary. I think maybe you're so busy feeling

55:41

I don't know if your nerves are too

55:43

busy feeling the cold or maybe maybe maybe

55:45

well we're drawing to an end now though

55:47

and with Mother's Day in a

55:49

couple of days time if you're listening in in

55:52

real time it's wonderful

55:54

to hear you know as your mother and

55:56

hope to your listeners who've been so much part of

55:58

the journey over the years. I'm

56:00

sure will be just cheering and

56:02

beaming with the fact that you

56:04

are now pretty much pain free.

56:06

I mean, how would you say your state of

56:09

pain is right now? I

56:11

don't have any pain right now. I

56:14

know. It's a bit old name. I'm not that extraordinary with such joy. I

56:16

mean, I just, I am so cheering. Every

56:19

telling my body is just sort of explaining

56:21

the joy when I hear you say that. And

56:25

you also have some other really

56:27

lovely news. I

56:29

do, yes, for expecting a baby. Yeah.

56:35

And you've only recently gone public. Yes, because

56:37

you are now in your third trimester.

56:39

Yes. Having

56:41

obviously had so many miscarriages and

56:43

disappointments and setbacks, you

56:45

weren't ready to share the news at all

56:48

with anybody. No, not

56:50

even really with myself. I

56:52

kind of ignored it and carried on. Yeah.

56:55

Yeah. How do you

56:58

feel now? It just seems extraordinary that

57:00

even in just 12 months, I think this is

57:02

the amazing thing. When we

57:05

were together at Christmas, I

57:07

remember last Christmas, sorry, not the one

57:09

that just gone, but the Christmas before that,

57:12

we had a drinks party at home and you

57:14

had lots of your friends who came and you

57:17

were upstairs in my guest bedroom and you were

57:19

so ill and in so much pain that you

57:21

couldn't even come downstairs to say hello to anybody.

57:24

I couldn't attend a party where

57:26

I was already in the building. And

57:29

the following year, literally this last

57:31

couple of months just gone, I had another

57:34

Christmas drink party with a few local friends

57:36

around and you were the life and soul of the party.

57:40

Drinking your non-alcoholic cocktails because

57:42

of being pregnant. It's

57:45

just extraordinary that 12 short months

57:47

can make such an incredible difference. Yeah,

57:51

that's the thing. And I remember being told that all

57:53

the time through whilst I was ill, it's like, you

57:56

never know what's around the corner and you

57:58

never know. what

58:01

inventions, science and medicine and stuff are going to

58:03

come up with. You never know the more cures

58:05

you're going to come up with. At the time

58:07

I really poo pooed in, I was like, I've

58:10

been out for seven years now, like

58:12

in chronic pain to five of them,

58:14

like it's getting pretty brutal. Like science

58:16

can move really slowly sometimes. Like how,

58:18

how, how can you

58:20

like keep hope in those situations?

58:23

But actually you really do never know

58:25

what's around the corner. And sometimes when recovery

58:27

comes, it comes really amazingly quickly.

58:30

Well, thank you for sharing. And I hope very much

58:32

in a couple of months that we'll be able to

58:34

share some even better news. Yeah,

58:37

that'd be great. Thank you more.

58:39

Thank you. Oh,

58:43

my lovely little, well, big thanks to

58:46

her and big thanks to you for

58:48

listening. And of course, if you know

58:50

anybody who's affected by any

58:52

of the issues that we've talked about, do

58:54

please feel free to share

58:56

and go back into the archives, because

58:58

so many of the podcasts that we've

59:01

recorded in recent years have stemmed from

59:03

discussions with Lily and many of

59:05

the clinicians and the therapists and

59:07

the techniques that we've talked about

59:10

in this episode. Well, I'd

59:12

love to know how your relationships

59:14

with your children have changed over

59:16

time and what you've learned and

59:18

the adversities perhaps that you've come

59:21

through, what valuable life lessons they've

59:23

taught you. Lily has

59:25

certainly taught me many, the main one

59:27

being, I think, that joy and

59:29

sorrow do coexist and never,

59:32

ever, ever give up. So

59:34

let's carry on this conversation on Instagram

59:37

at Liz Our Wellbeing. And you

59:39

can find me there too at

59:41

LizOurMe. And as I said, if you want

59:43

to go back and get the experts take on the

59:45

various practices and the therapies that we've been

59:47

talking about today and you want

59:50

to listen to those episodes ad free, you

59:52

can subscribe to the Liz Our Wellbeing show

59:54

plus. And that is on

59:56

Apple Podcasts for a very

59:58

small monthly fee. And you're also... get

1:00:00

all future episodes 24 hours

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early. So until the

1:00:05

next time we chat go very

1:00:07

well. Goodbye. The

1:00:14

Liz Earle Wellbeing Show is presented by me

1:00:17

Liz Earle and is produced by Anushka Tate

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for Fresh Air Production with additional

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