0:01

Hello friends and welcome back to the

0:03

Liz Moody podcast. I'm your host Liz Moody

0:05

and I'm a bestselling author and longtime journalist.

0:08

This podcast is all about helping you live

0:10

your healthiest happiest life, whether we're learning how

0:12

to harness the positives of anger, discussing

0:15

how to drink less without feeling bored

0:17

or stressed or judged, or figuring out

0:19

how to overcome imposter syndrome. And yes,

0:21

those are all real episodes and they

0:23

are linked in the show notes if

0:25

you want to listen. Today

0:27

I am so excited to welcome Dr.

0:29

Sue Varma to the podcast. Dr.

0:32

Varma is a board certified psychiatrist.

0:34

She's a professor of psychiatry at

0:36

the NYU School of Medicine and

0:38

she was honored as a distinguished

0:40

fellow by the American Psychiatric Association.

0:42

She has been featured on

0:44

the Today Show on CBS Mornings and

0:47

Good Morning America, as well as Primetime

0:49

specials and news documentaries. And

0:51

this is fascinating. She was the first

0:54

medical director of the World Trade Center

0:56

Mental Health Program. She helped first responders

0:58

and people after the 9-11 attacks. And

1:01

that was a time that really laid

1:03

the foundation for her work on

1:05

resilience and optimism. Her

1:07

new book, Practical Optimism, The Art,

1:09

Science, and Practice of Exceptional Well-Being,

1:11

comes out next week on February

1:13

20th and it is such an

1:16

incredible read. I was

1:18

so intrigued by Dr. Varma's idea

1:20

that there are pragmatic, concrete steps

1:22

we can all take to become

1:24

more optimistic. I say this

1:26

in the episode, but I love the idea

1:28

of optimism because I feel

1:31

like I can find happiness, but

1:33

I really have to work for

1:35

it. If I can rewire

1:37

my brain to have that happiness, to

1:39

have that positive outlook, come a little

1:41

bit more easily, more often,

1:44

that is the absolute dream for

1:46

me. And she delivered

1:48

in this episode sharing so many tools

1:50

and solving so many of the obstacles

1:52

that get in the way of feeling

1:54

optimistic. We get into how to

1:56

know if you are an optimist or a pessimist.

2:00

health effects of optimism, the secret to

2:02

forming good habits that no one

2:04

is talking about. Even

2:06

I had never heard this one before, so she

2:08

got me, which really means something, because I read

2:10

up on this stuff and I interview people on

2:12

this stuff. The major difference

2:15

between practical optimism and toxic

2:17

positivity, the neurological changes

2:19

that occur when you practice optimism,

2:22

a genius trick

2:24

to stop worrying, two

2:26

secrets for finding purpose and why

2:28

it is so important to optimism,

2:31

and so many science-backed tools that

2:33

you can use immediately to become

2:35

more optimistic. As always,

2:37

we would both love to hear your thoughts

2:39

as you're listening, so definitely screenshot and tag

2:42

us on Instagram. I am at Liz Moody

2:44

and Dr. Varma is at Dr. Sue Varma.

2:47

This is the type of episode that's just at

2:49

the core of what the Liz Moody podcast is

2:51

all about. It's really interesting

2:54

science made, accessible and doable

2:56

and fun translated into action

2:58

tips that you can apply

3:00

today to truly change your

3:02

life. If you love it,

3:04

please share it. We could all use a little

3:06

bit more optimism in our lives. Okay,

3:09

let's get right into it. Let's

3:11

become more optimistic with Dr. Sue

3:13

Varma. Sue,

3:16

welcome to the show today. I'm so

3:18

excited to get into the subject of

3:20

optimism because I don't consider myself an

3:22

optimistic person. I find that

3:24

hard to believe, and maybe you're not

3:26

optimistic, maybe you're practically optimistic. That's

3:29

so interesting. Okay, so how do you differentiate the two? Optimism,

3:32

people think of it as something you're

3:34

either born with or not, and maybe

3:36

that's why you're saying, I don't see

3:38

myself as naturally that way because maybe

3:40

the initial first thought in any situation

3:42

may not be positively skewed because the

3:44

definition of an optimist is someone who

3:46

sees the best possible scenario in almost

3:48

everything. Now, don't get me wrong. Optimists

3:51

also have a tendency under a lot of

3:53

stress to feel stressed out and maybe not

3:55

believe in the most hopeful outcome, but

3:58

the difference is that practical options Optimism

4:00

is about employing key strategies

4:02

and skills and resources that

4:04

can be learned. So, I'm

4:06

going to get into it with you, but optimism

4:08

is genetic, and that's something that I learned, and

4:10

that there are genes associated with it. But the

4:12

most interesting thing to me, and why I then

4:14

went on this quest for my patients, is

4:17

because I realized so much of what

4:19

I was doing in therapy was helping

4:21

them to not only envision the best

4:23

possible outcome, but then giving them tools

4:25

to actually create it. And

4:27

it's only 25% genetic, right? Yes,

4:30

oh my God. You read the book. I

4:32

love that, yes. So,

4:34

only 25% of it is genetic, and

4:37

what's genetic about it. So, the genes,

4:39

you know, in 2011, UCLA

4:41

researchers discovered that

4:43

optimism was associated with the

4:45

oxytocin receptor gene. But

4:47

what they realized is that it

4:50

actually codes for skills and

4:52

resources, like cognitive behavioral therapy,

4:54

the things that you learn,

4:56

and mindset shifts, like people

4:59

have cognitive distortions, like tendency to see

5:01

glass half empty, that type of thing.

5:04

What's so interesting is that optimism

5:06

is related to

5:08

longevity, exceptional longevity. It's

5:11

not just health outcomes, but optimism

5:13

can be correlated with success in

5:15

relationships, at work, productivity, work engagement.

5:17

So, there's every reason to invest

5:19

in this. And now, in all

5:21

departments of medicine, surgery, immunology, people

5:23

want to know about how can

5:25

we make our patients optimistic for

5:27

better health outcomes. Can you share

5:29

some of the research around how

5:31

optimism benefits our lives? I found

5:33

that fascinating. Yes. So,

5:36

in 2019, there's a study in JAMA

5:38

Open Network, and it's one of the most

5:40

well-respected journals, and they did a study of

5:42

200,000 people, and they

5:44

found that optimists live longer

5:46

on average of like 10 to 15%. They

5:50

also experienced what's called exceptional longevity,

5:52

which is living into your 80s

5:54

with good health. So,

5:56

it's not enough to say, oh, this person is

5:58

living longer, like what good. Living longer if

6:00

most of your arm final years or stance

6:03

had ridden with cognitive decline and feeling like

6:05

you're dependent on other people. Your immobile. and

6:07

whole lot of people like that. Like a

6:09

lot of occasions that I treat or in

6:12

their twenties, thirties, forties, sissies and then even

6:14

up to their eighties and they'll tell me

6:16

that I feel like I'm taking care of

6:18

elderly parents of mine and they're depressed they

6:20

don't leave the house, they don't have friends

6:23

there immobile and that makes me really sad.

6:25

So often I'm like helping their pair and

6:27

for the pairs, not even knowing it by

6:29

giving. The patients like tools to be

6:31

like take this back to your parents

6:34

and like help them. So wound healing

6:36

if you give someone and sixteen minute

6:38

optimism intervention and you have them practice

6:40

it regularly after surgery their biopsy wound

6:42

healed faster, less colds, less infections, less

6:44

heart disease, less strokes, lesson death by

6:46

all causes and I see what. No

6:48

one knows about this and no one

6:51

is talking about it and known as

6:53

like of this needs to be in

6:55

schools. We need to implement this from

6:57

like early on. When. I love about

6:59

the idea of becoming more optimistic as I

7:01

feel like I can be happy most days

7:04

but I feel like I have to work

7:06

for at I feel like I have to.

7:09

Do. A lot of labor to get to

7:11

the place. I'm happy and the idea being

7:13

optimistic. Is. Appealing to me because

7:15

then I'm like, well, I just wake up

7:17

and feel more positive on a daily basis.

7:20

Is that the promise? Yes. Because. He.

7:22

For me. A lot of navigating

7:25

hardship is about giving someone a

7:27

sense of agency and control in

7:29

their life. There was a study

7:31

and twenty twenty two and the

7:34

American Psychological Association does an survey

7:36

on stress in America, and this

7:38

particular time they sound that not

7:40

only were like sixty to eighty

7:42

percent of people stressed out by

7:45

a lot of variables: war, inflation,

7:47

discrimination, there's climate change there's

7:49

a lot happening in the world but the

7:51

keen the study was people are feeling stressed

7:53

out about things that he cannot control and

7:55

to me that was the most important take

7:58

away from the study i know People

8:00

are stressed out. People are coming into my office all the time

8:02

because they need help. But you

8:05

can give back somebody a feeling of

8:07

agency. So, Liz, when you wake up in the morning,

8:09

if you're like, okay, it doesn't matter how the day

8:11

turns out for me, I have

8:13

control over two things,

8:15

my mindset and my behavior and what

8:17

tools I choose to employ. And

8:20

I love in my mind knowing that if plan

8:22

A doesn't work, fine. I've already got plan B,

8:24

C, D. And then if none of that works,

8:26

then I'm going to engage in acceptance. And

8:29

one of the things I talk about in the book was

8:31

a quote, it's very much from Eastern Wisdom. It's something I

8:33

grew up with in my parents. And they always ask me,

8:36

is this a problem to be solved

8:38

or a truth to be accepted? And

8:41

I feel like that's so important because in

8:44

Western society, we like to solve

8:46

problems. Right. Like the

8:48

country was developed based on very

8:51

adventurous, hardworking people who

8:53

took chances and things didn't

8:55

always work out for them. But we have this

8:57

idea of you want your life, go create it.

9:00

And I love that. Right. Like I was born

9:02

and raised in the United States. And I love

9:04

that independent frontiers men and women idea. At

9:06

the same time in Eastern Wisdom, they

9:09

teach you that there's a difference between

9:11

pain and suffering. Pain is all of

9:13

the things that happen in life. The

9:15

losses, the grief, the tragedies. Some

9:17

are small, some are big. I call them the

9:19

big teas of trauma and the little teas, the

9:21

big teas are life threatening, the little teas are

9:23

everyday hassles. But at

9:25

the end of the day, if you can't

9:27

get what you want and you're resisting it, that's

9:30

what causes suffering. So like ordinary pain versus

9:33

suffering. And then practical optimism says we don't

9:35

need to suffer. Let's do what we can

9:37

to change it and then accept the rest.

9:40

So we might still have pain in our

9:42

life, but our reaction to that pain will

9:44

be different. Exactly. Because when

9:46

you realize that nothing is permanent

9:49

and nothing is guaranteed except for

9:51

change. And once you embrace

9:53

that to say, oh, okay, this is a

9:55

natural evolution in life. There's a phrase that

9:57

I love. Nobody ever promised you a rose.

10:00

I think that we expect so

10:02

much from ourselves, from people, from

10:04

society, and that entitlement comes back

10:06

to bite us and haunt us

10:08

because we feel entitled. And

10:11

there's a way to do it so that you go 150%, 200%, go after your

10:13

goals, go after your

10:16

dreams. Acceptance is an active state.

10:18

When you've tried everything and it didn't work out

10:21

at the end of the day, it's okay to

10:23

engage actively in acceptance and say, okay, I'm going

10:25

to take a pause. Maybe

10:27

this is not right now. It's not

10:29

as if you're working for a goal, it's not working

10:31

out for you to say, all right, I'm going to

10:33

revisit it. I'm not giving up. And

10:35

sometimes you do decide to hang it up and say, well, not

10:38

for now. Is there

10:40

anything else that active acceptance

10:42

would include? People

10:44

in our lives, toxic relationships. I think this

10:47

is the hardest one. I know we're talking

10:49

a lot about narcissism and dealing with people

10:51

who hurt us. And

10:54

I think sometimes recognizing and realizing that people

10:56

that we love so much, that we want

10:58

the best for them, sometimes they're

11:00

not going to change. And then so how do

11:02

we rewrite the script in

11:04

our head about that relationship? Maybe it's about

11:06

the pain that they might've caused us. And

11:08

I talk about the idea of forgiveness and

11:10

that so many steps to it. And sometimes

11:13

we're so afraid of forgiveness because we

11:15

think it's letting someone off the hook,

11:18

but really it's just putting your psyche

11:20

at ease. So

11:22

interesting. Okay. I'd love

11:25

to ground this in reality a little bit for

11:27

people who are wondering if they're an optimist or

11:29

a pessimist. Can you share maybe a real world

11:31

situation and how an optimist might react to that

11:33

situation versus a pessimist? I have a

11:35

friend who she's very open about it and she's like, I have

11:37

sent my script 200 times

11:40

to publishers and they've all gotten rejected. Now

11:43

a pessimist right out of the gate

11:45

wouldn't have even attempted 200 times. The

11:47

difference is a pessimist might not have attempted at all.

11:49

They were like, I'm not a writer. This person wasn't

11:51

a writer. They had a completely different career and

11:54

they wouldn't even try. And

11:56

that's the biggest thing is that in

11:58

pessimism, the... Difference between the

12:01

optimism pessimists is. That. Pessimists

12:03

believe it or not, are actually more realistic.

12:05

They actually do more thorough evaluation. They might

12:07

be actually more in touch with reality, but

12:09

the difference is, what are they do That

12:12

information? So let's say I'm not a writer.

12:14

This was my first book. I could easily

12:16

said who am I? It's none of my

12:18

business trying why bother rapes and I don't

12:21

even offer. Consider myself naturally optimistic, but I

12:23

do think that I've developed to be skills

12:25

overtime and I choose to employ them. So

12:27

first of all, your pessimists, the take home

12:29

for this is recognize that you are that

12:32

way Race here. And there's and optimism inventory

12:34

on mine as free. It has

12:36

to do with do you believe that things

12:38

will mostly work out for the good? Do

12:40

give people the benefit of doubt most of

12:42

the time. So it took a certain amount

12:44

of optimism for this person to not try

12:46

once and sale not twice for two hundred

12:48

times to get rejected. And now the book

12:50

is doing really, really well. One of them

12:53

turned into a movie like ourselves and is

12:55

a hit. So Pessimists does certain key things.

12:57

That three piece of pessimism. As.

12:59

Discussed by Martin Seligman who's into the

13:01

founder of this Ah Positive Psychology optimism

13:04

movement. He says that optimists engage in

13:06

three types of thinking. They take things

13:08

personally, They think that the negative

13:10

thing that's happening to them is pervasive. It speaks

13:13

to all aspects of their lives and a take

13:15

it that it's permanent. So if someone is attempting

13:17

to write a book and literally still in the

13:19

blank like for this person was writing a book

13:21

for another person. Could be musician it. You could

13:23

be getting into medical school. It could be whatever.

13:26

So. They're going to take their rejection. So

13:28

that's the common theme here is that a pessimist

13:30

will take the negative for Jackson and say. I

13:33

suck. I there's something wrong with me. This

13:35

is not meant for me. And not only

13:37

do they think that they suck in that

13:39

one thing, like writing for example, still say

13:41

you know what? Maybe I'm like a loser

13:43

A starts to trickle into other aspects of

13:45

their lives. So then they start to think

13:47

it's pervasive or that think it's permanent. All

13:49

this never succeed. It's not meant for me

13:51

and they'll give up. A lot of girls

13:53

will say young women are marketed science. I'm

13:55

not good at math. I remember. when

13:58

i was an undergrad i was in

14:00

a organic chemistry class, and that's like the

14:02

well-known weeder out of people. If you can't

14:04

get past it, you're not meant to be

14:06

a doctor. And my professor said to us,

14:08

we were in a class of 300 people and

14:11

there were 600 total between two sections.

14:14

And he said that women just don't

14:16

have the visual spatial capacity to understand

14:18

organic chemistry. And no woman in my

14:21

class in 30 years has

14:23

ever gotten an A in organic chemistry.

14:26

Now a pessimist would say, this is

14:28

not meant to be for me if I can't pass this

14:31

class. I'm not going to get into medical school. And

14:33

you know what happened is most people internalized

14:35

that. And by the end,

14:38

most of the pre-med students had dropped

14:40

down. 1-10th were left by the time

14:42

we graduated because of internalizing

14:44

the negative messaging or just trying

14:47

not doing well. I had

14:49

two girlfriends, and the two of them looked at me and they're

14:51

like, this is like a

14:53

crossroads. We can either take what he says,

14:55

fail, or we can double down. And that's

14:57

what we did. We doubled down and we

14:59

formed a study group. We went

15:01

to extra help sessions. And the three

15:04

of us ended up getting an A in the class,

15:06

not just enable like 100 and something. And

15:08

this guy had never seen that. And he was so

15:10

mad. He was so bitter. But there was nothing he

15:12

can do. And if I had bought into

15:15

that, I wouldn't be here. I wouldn't have passed it. Probably not

15:17

have been able to get into medical school. But the

15:19

difference is that do we internalize the

15:22

obstacles and see them as personal, or

15:24

do we see them as part of

15:26

external circumstances that we can sort of

15:29

navigate around? It's so interesting

15:32

because I kicked off the conversation by saying,

15:34

I don't think I'm an optimist. But

15:36

one of the life mottos that I live by is

15:39

never be the one to say no to yourself, which

15:41

just means always going out there and trying and finding

15:43

somebody else to say no to you, which is a

15:46

very optimistic great, as

15:48

you've described, which I find fascinating. Yes.

15:51

It was like, we're meeting for the first time, but

15:53

I followed your work. And I'm so impressed by everything

15:55

you do and are doing. And that's

15:57

what I want people to know, that even if you don't.

16:00

Initially, think of yourself as an optimist.

16:02

Ask yourself why a look at your

16:04

life. Your life is a representation of

16:06

your practical optimism so there's no way

16:08

select maybe what you're saying is not

16:10

something I with. but then when I

16:13

look at everything you've done, there's no

16:15

way because I imagine at on a

16:17

personal story but there must have been

16:19

stumbling blocks along the way. Yes, very

16:21

much so. This is an interesting. Question

16:24

So roll along with me here. but

16:26

there's a it bi lateral relationship between

16:28

like are that health and arm and

16:30

I'll say where are stress impacts are

16:33

got microbiome and our gut microbiome impacts

16:35

are stress and the way that you're

16:37

saying like optimistic people and go for

16:39

things Does that work backwards The other

16:42

way to where if you go for

16:44

things will become more optimistic Yes. But

16:46

here's the thing is A when you

16:49

go for things, go mm with a

16:51

clear mind that rejection is possible and

16:53

often probable. In the beginning stages, but

16:55

that they don't define you and that

16:57

you need to do the work so

17:00

that you actually develop some skill and

17:02

ability. So what's interesting is I talk

17:04

about one of the peace as proficiency

17:06

and it's self efficacy. And it's this

17:08

idea of having confidence in your ability.

17:10

It's not your actual ability. Or.

17:13

Confidence is only gonna get you so

17:15

far if there's no skills to back

17:17

it up. So I would say do

17:19

the homework, continue honing your skill or

17:21

your crafts by getting mentor set by

17:23

having role models by asking for help

17:25

and feedback and advice, and keep practicing

17:27

my talk about the idea of behavioral

17:29

activation. which is a tool

17:32

used in cognitive behavioral therapy and it says

17:34

put the cart before the horse to in

17:36

the treatment of depression when a patient says

17:38

i don't see like it i don't want

17:40

to leave the house i'm not in the

17:43

mood to socialize and interact that is precisely

17:45

when i know to tell a person please

17:47

do socialize please do interact because your mood

17:49

will benefit from it and this is why

17:52

it's so important to do little hacks throughout

17:54

the day i love how you talk about

17:56

like micro movement and like michael exercise i

17:58

talk about like micro connections with

18:01

people and these like little 10 minute

18:04

snack, social snacking of talking to someone

18:06

at the bodega when you're buying bottle

18:09

water or the bus driver or wherever,

18:11

like the dog walker barista, have conversations

18:13

with people because those five or 10

18:15

minute interactions boost our mood in

18:17

a way that we're not even realizing. We kind

18:19

of lost that in the pandemic, like

18:21

these built in layers of contact. When

18:24

you're in a better mood, you're more likely to

18:26

tackle the email that you've been wanting to send

18:28

out, the help that you've been wanting to ask

18:31

and all of those little boosts and mood, then

18:33

put you in a position to put yourself out

18:35

there. And I'm a firm believer you have to

18:37

put yourself out there. So many people are so

18:39

afraid of rejection that they never ask. And like

18:41

they say, you miss a hundred percent of the

18:43

shots you don't take. Well, and

18:45

I love your point of continuing to

18:48

hone your skills, changing your actual

18:50

situation as you're going out and seeking

18:52

out those reactions. I think is so,

18:54

so smart. Yes. Do you have any

18:57

other little hacks for putting

18:59

the cart before the horse? I've

19:01

had so many times where I'm feeling kind

19:03

of down in the evening and I know

19:05

I should go work out. I know that'll

19:07

make me feel better. I'll be sitting on

19:09

the couch and I'll be like, I know

19:11

working out will make me feel better, but

19:13

I can't bring myself to do it. And

19:15

so I'll just sit there and scroll. Yes.

19:18

So I'm a big believer in planning in

19:20

advance. You cannot leave it to chance to

19:23

will to discipline, to feel inspired. And

19:25

I would say in that moment, don't

19:27

even allow yourself the options. Like when

19:29

people talk about this idea of like,

19:32

Oh, I have bad habits. I don't think it's

19:34

a matter of having a bad habit. I think

19:36

it's a matter of not having a habit at

19:38

all. You have left yourself to up

19:40

to chance. Like I'll give you an example. So many

19:42

times, like if I'm seeing patients, I might be sitting

19:44

in my office all day and then I'm like writing

19:46

in the evening. And it's so easy to not leave.

19:48

If you're comfortable in your home and in your sweats,

19:51

I'd like to leave the house, but I've made it

19:53

a non-negotiable rule that even if I don't get to

19:55

exercise, I go to the gym and I try to

19:57

go three, four, five, whatever I can manage. I

20:00

have to go for a walk. It's not even

20:02

an option. Maybe that day it didn't

20:04

work out, but say to yourself, what is

20:06

non-negotiable in my life? And I'm

20:08

just going to put my clothes on and

20:11

I'm going to go literally for five minutes.

20:13

So lower the entry barrier. So instead of

20:15

thinking about a big gym workout, because here's

20:17

the thing, high achieving people are often perfectionists.

20:20

And they feel as if they didn't get to do something

20:22

100% right, they

20:24

didn't do it at all. And so they don't do it

20:26

at all. And that's the problem. We have seen so many

20:28

benefits of walking. And just even from

20:30

a mental health point of view, like anxiety,

20:32

depression, because your eyes, the whole EMDR idea

20:35

of eye movement, desensitization, like you're looking left

20:37

and right. When you're walking, you have to

20:39

focus on the outside world. And as a

20:41

result of that, you come outside of your

20:44

head and come outside of your ruminations. And

20:46

ruminations, you can see that on a functional

20:48

MRI, you can see the person, a certain

20:50

part of their headlight up. You're familiar with

20:52

the saying that perfect is the enemy of the

20:54

good. And so say

20:56

to yourself, I'm not going to be going

20:59

for the 60 minute workout, but I'm still

21:01

going to get benefit by my 20 minute

21:03

walk because I'm doing my brain a service.

21:05

Don't set the bar so high. I love

21:08

the idea that a bad

21:10

habit is the absence of a good habit. Because

21:12

the second you said that it unlocked for me,

21:14

the reason that I was sitting there on the

21:17

couch scrolling was because I hadn't created a good

21:19

habit to do something else. And almost the

21:21

vast majority of bad habits that I can

21:23

think of in my life is because I

21:25

haven't filled that space. It's almost I tell

21:27

people with food to instead of depriving yourself

21:30

of anything to add more vegetables to your

21:32

plate, you're almost saying that with good habits

21:34

to crowd in the good habits, which will

21:36

crowd out the bad habits. Oh my God,

21:38

absolutely. That's exactly what it's about. Totally, totally.

21:40

Fascinating. And anything that you want to achieve,

21:42

it has to be a habit. It can't

21:44

be a choice. And studies show that fatigue

21:48

is one of the biggest things that interrupt

21:50

our ability to carry through. And they show

21:53

that judges at the end of the day

21:55

are less likely to give parole or show

21:57

mercy to people. And that

21:59

doc. at the end of their shift if

22:01

they've been working long hours are less likely to give

22:03

pain medication because they have less empathy for the patient

22:05

at the end of the day. So

22:07

you don't want to be anybody's end of anything.

22:10

So make sure that your court case is early

22:12

in the day, go to the doctor in the

22:14

morning. Yes. But is there anything that

22:16

we can do to fight that fatigue in ourselves? Yes.

22:19

So I have a lot of patients who want to

22:21

take an LSAT or an MCAT or a GMAT and

22:23

they're at a different stage in life where they're now

22:25

having a full-time job. And on top

22:27

of that, they have to carve out time. Let's

22:29

say somebody wants to start a side hustle. They want

22:31

to be an author and they have a full-time job. They

22:33

have a family. Maybe they have young kids at home. And

22:35

they're like, I just don't have the time. Once I get

22:37

home, I just want to relax. Like

22:40

I'm a professional at this point. I don't have the

22:42

ability the way I did when I was 22 in

22:44

college with no responsibilities. So I

22:46

find that there are a lot of people who

22:48

want to work on whatever, music, blog, something fun,

22:50

mastery, a hobby. They just don't have the time

22:52

for it. And I would say that you

22:55

have to plan in advance. You have to carve out. You

22:57

have to think of all the obstacles that can get in

22:59

the way. And so, for example, if

23:01

you had a full-time job, I have a patient who was a

23:03

lawyer and they wanted to study for an

23:05

exam. They wanted to go back

23:08

to business school, get an MBA. So I said, would

23:10

you consider instead of going home? Because once you go

23:12

home, you have all these cues for relaxation, for fun,

23:14

to play with your kids. And

23:16

what we came up with is that they

23:19

would stay at the office. They would go

23:21

to the office cafeteria, a communal workspace, before

23:23

going home. So if you know that if

23:26

you understand your cues and triggers for

23:28

both good habits and bad habits, you're

23:30

able to better plan accordingly. And I

23:33

love the idea of just

23:36

making little plans for the things that normally

23:38

trip you up to just have a plan

23:40

in place ahead of time. I think that's

23:42

absolutely brilliant. One thing I

23:45

find really cool about practical optimism is

23:47

that it seems like it's an example

23:49

of neuroplasticity in action. Can you explain

23:51

in brief what's happening on a neurological

23:53

level? Yes. So there

23:55

are actually rewiring of the brain. When you

23:57

do this intervention, it's like, I'm going to

23:59

do this. that I love. It's taken from

24:01

the positive psychology movement and it's called the

24:03

best possible scenario where you ask a person

24:06

to envision the best possible outcome of anything.

24:08

And I've added my own little twist to

24:10

it by asking a person to think of

24:12

a problem. And then I asked them like,

24:14

okay, think of a problem that you're struggling

24:16

with. Think about the road

24:19

that is going to

24:21

take you from that problem to your

24:23

best possible outcome. And I asked them to get really

24:25

granular. Think about how the problem makes them feel. Where

24:27

do you feel it? Do you feel tense in your

24:29

shoulders? Are you clenching your jaw? Then tell me about

24:32

that road. Is it straight? Does it twist and turn?

24:34

And then tell me the feelings that are associated when

24:36

you get to the best possible outcome. So like the

24:38

book is the best seller. The song is a number

24:40

one hit on the charts. And

24:42

I want you to really revel in that

24:44

positive emotion. And we can see on functional

24:47

MRIs that there is a signature

24:49

neural pathway for optimism that

24:51

is distinctly different from

24:53

pessimism. Pessimism is the

24:56

rumination or default mode network gets

24:58

activated where we're worrying and you

25:00

go down this spiral. So you

25:02

can see the activation in the

25:04

brain in different areas like optimism

25:06

is associated with the left frontal cortex

25:08

and pessimism is with the right. And

25:11

so by doing these activities, you can

25:13

boost activity in your left lobe. And

25:15

I think that that's amazing that you

25:17

can actually cause brain changes. And

25:20

cognitive behavioral therapy, there's a lot of

25:22

science. And what I love about this is

25:24

that you can teach people to rewire

25:26

their brain from the inside out, so

25:29

to speak, and change their life from

25:31

the inside out in a permanent way.

25:35

One of the top questions I get is

25:37

what I use for birth control after making

25:39

the switch from hormonal options. And I

25:41

will not stop singing from the rooftops

25:43

about my absolute love for the natural

25:45

cycles app. It's changed my life so

25:47

much to have a completely non hormonal

25:49

non invasive form of birth control, which

25:51

I never thought was possible. I've gotten

25:53

my libido back, my anxiety has gone

25:56

significantly down. And while I'm not anti

25:58

hormonal birth control by any means. I'm

26:00

just so happy this option exists. Natural

26:03

Cycles is a leading women's health company

26:05

that created the world's first FDA cleared

26:07

birth control app. The app's algorithm

26:09

uses hormone driven changes in body temperature

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26:14

or not fertile. It's 93% effective

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with typical use and 98% effective

26:19

with perfect use. The app uses

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a color coded system and every day based

26:23

on your temperature, you'll get red or green

26:25

days if you're in Natural Cycles birth control

26:27

mode. Red days mean you're fertile

26:30

and you should abstain or use protection. Green

26:32

means that you are good to go at it however

26:34

you would like. I love

26:36

Natural Cycles because it's grounded in research.

26:39

There is a proven connection between body

26:41

temperature and ovulation. Right before

26:43

ovulation, progesterone levels start to rise and

26:45

progesterone actually increases your body temperature. This

26:47

change in body temperature is what the

26:49

app's algorithm looks for to let users

26:51

know when they're fertile or not fertile.

26:54

It's really different than just taking your

26:56

own temperature and tracking. Your temperature is

26:58

going into an algorithm developed by a

27:00

female physicist, Alina, who was on the

27:02

team that discovered the Higgs boson particle

27:04

which led to the Nobel Prize for

27:06

physics. And they're doing a bunch of

27:08

crazy science to make the predictions way

27:10

more accurate than what we can do

27:12

at home. We're all different.

27:14

So I think it's important to be aware of

27:16

all of the options out there when it comes

27:18

to something as personal as birth control. I

27:21

have loved using Natural Cycles as my preferred

27:23

birth control method. So I am thrilled that

27:25

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27:42

Natural Cycles is for 18 and over and

27:45

does not protect against STIs. Meal

27:49

prepping is one of the biggest life hacks.

27:51

There is nothing more anxiety reducing than taking

27:54

a daily concern and turning it into something

27:56

you think about every few days or even

27:58

once a week. And if you think... meal

28:00

prepping is hard, I feel you, I'm

28:02

there with you, and this is going

28:04

to change your meal prep game. The

28:06

caraway, bakeware, and storage containers. The

28:08

storage containers are amazing. They're all microwave,

28:10

oven, and freezer safe, so you can

28:12

do what I do and store your

28:14

food in them in the freezer in

28:16

individual portion sizes. The small one is

28:18

perfect for one person. And then you

28:20

transfer that directly to the oven or

28:22

microwave, sandglass lid to reheat it. Kind

28:24

of like a way healthier freezer meal.

28:27

They're also completely non-toxic, so you can

28:29

feel okay about heating them up. If

28:31

you're listening and you are microwaving in

28:34

plastic containers, please, please stop. You are

28:36

transferring harmful chemicals to your food and

28:38

then you are eating those chemicals. There

28:40

are a ton of studies that show

28:42

that at this point. I also

28:44

love the glass lids. You can easily peep in and

28:47

you can see what's in there. And these

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are also stunning. They come in gorgeous colors.

28:51

They look beautiful in your cabinet, fridge, and

28:54

freezer. And that is a hack unto itself

28:56

because you will want to use these. The

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bakeware is also amazing. It's made of non-toxic

29:01

materials and it's completely non-stick, so you don't

29:03

need to use parchment paper, aluminum foil, any

29:06

of that. It cooks really evenly. I've tested

29:08

it with sheet pan veggies and with cookies,

29:10

and the browning has been unbelievable. I also

29:12

love the muffin pans because I never have

29:15

muffin containers around and I'm not down for

29:17

most muffin pans to touch the food that

29:19

I eat. But muffin pans are so helpful

29:22

for meal prep. You can make single serving

29:24

frittatas. You can portion out soup and freeze

29:26

it and then pop it in a big

29:28

storage bag. You can make servings of

29:30

sauce and freeze them. And again, they

29:33

are so cute. I

29:35

would personally start with the baking sheet

29:37

duo and the muffin pan plus the

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food storage container set. They

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also just released a stainless steel pan

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set, which I am very interested in

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testing. I love cooking with stainless steel.

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It's actually incredibly non-stick if you use

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it properly. So I will test that

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and I will get back to you.

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made modern. Yeah

30:24

when you said that they're permanent changes on

30:27

a neurological level so when you're practicing say

30:29

the best-case scenario you're activating that part of

30:31

your brain but then is the idea that

30:33

that part of your brain is going to

30:36

be more active even when you are not

30:38

doing that practice. Yes exactly the more you

30:40

rewire over and over and over again and

30:42

there's this idea of cognitive distortions and being

30:45

able to catch them. So to give you

30:47

an example if I sent an

30:49

email to my boss and I didn't hear back

30:51

two days later three days later five days later

30:54

there's a tendency for pessimists to be like oh

30:56

my god I'm getting fired my boss hates me

30:58

to personalize and then to think I'm losing my

31:00

job to go to the worst-case scenario so catch

31:02

yourself. So much of worry is

31:05

used as a form of avoidance

31:07

emotional avoidance we worry because we

31:10

think we're doing something but

31:12

there's a difference there's productive worry and there's unproductive

31:14

worry and unproductive worry is your wheels spinning in

31:16

the mud but you're not making accelerations like the

31:19

rocking chair you're moving but you're not getting anywhere

31:21

and so by practicing these

31:23

distortions and then challenging them so what

31:26

best-case scenario worst-case scenario you're making permanent

31:28

changes in your brain so now after

31:31

years of practicing immediately like

31:33

even though the first blip if someone doesn't respond oh

31:35

my god it's me they hate me I must have

31:37

said something oh my god I put my foot in

31:39

my mouth immediately the second

31:42

thought of take

31:44

a break take a breather it's

31:46

not you they got delayed and sure

31:48

enough vast majority of the time it

31:50

turns out that I was overreacting I

31:53

was catastrophizing and things

31:55

worked out in my favor in fact they say that 85%

31:57

of the time when we worry

32:00

The things we worry about never actually happen. And

32:03

15% of the time that they do,

32:05

we're better able equipped to

32:07

deal with them than we previously thought. Wow.

32:11

And not better equipped because we were

32:13

worrying. We just have inner resilience and

32:15

we are inherently better equipped. Yes. And

32:18

we had the resources and the capability to actually execute.

32:21

And that's something I talk about in this book because

32:23

there's a patient, you know, their case composites, so their

32:25

names and everything has been changed. But there's a woman,

32:27

Nicole, who's really struggling with the

32:30

idea of she has three kids, very young,

32:32

she needs to get help for her youngest

32:34

child at home in home care. And she's

32:36

very reluctant and very resistant because she was

32:38

like, I have messaging associated with that. It's

32:41

indulgent. I don't want to do that. But that's

32:43

kind of where her life was headed because logistically,

32:46

that's what made the most sense. And

32:48

I found it so interesting because so many of

32:50

my patients, they know what they need to

32:52

do on paper. And she was an HR executive.

32:54

And so hiring someone and interviewing them in theory

32:57

shouldn't have been that hard. But in her

32:59

mind, there were all these obstacles and barriers. There

33:02

was anger towards the family for them not helping

33:04

and being more supportive. So I just

33:06

think it's interesting that so many of the time, that

33:08

15%, we have

33:10

the logistical capabilities. But

33:13

our worry starts to diminish

33:15

our agency. Can you

33:17

give us one tip if we recognize ourselves

33:19

in Nicole's situation and we want to overcome

33:22

that? Yeah, so I would

33:24

ask yourself, like, okay, what is the best case

33:26

scenario? And the best case scenario for Nicole would

33:28

have been to like, okay, I'm going to find

33:30

a caretaker who loves my child and who's

33:33

going to be great. And so you envision the best

33:35

in mind, and then you work backwards. And then you

33:37

get very granular. These are the qualities that I'm looking

33:39

for in the person. And you could substitute this with

33:41

anything that you're dealing with, whether it's a life partner

33:43

that you're looking for, whether it's a job. And

33:46

to list out like, what am I looking for? And

33:48

then what are my non-negotiables? I was helping a patient

33:50

with this the other day. He's like, I want someone

33:53

who's kind and loving. And then it's okay. Maybe English

33:55

doesn't have to be their first language. And maybe there's

33:57

benefit in that because I can teach my child that

33:59

language. So the things that you

34:01

think matter in the end maybe don't and

34:03

then be flexible, right? And a lot of

34:06

times people are very stuck and they're like,

34:08

it has to happen this way and it

34:10

can only happen this way. That's when we

34:12

do ourselves a detriment. So being very granular

34:14

about what you want, being equally granular about

34:16

what you don't want and being

34:19

accommodating and being flexible, being creative, asking for help.

34:21

So like putting out that WhatsApp because sometimes people

34:23

are like, I don't want to have to ask

34:25

because I'm going to look like, I don't know.

34:27

And people are going to think I don't have

34:29

my act together. When I was asking for advice

34:31

with a book, everyone was like, but Sue, you

34:33

know so many people. And I'm

34:35

like, whatever. After a while, you just have to get

34:37

over the fact of how you look when you ask

34:40

for help because it is what it is, right? This

34:42

is what I need. Let me focus on my agenda

34:44

and let me drown out the noise of what other

34:46

people think and other people's approval. So a lot of

34:48

times we don't do things because what

34:50

will people say? Yeah, it's interesting

34:52

because it's another example of the

34:54

bad habit is worrying, worrying, and

34:57

then you were establishing a good habit to

34:59

crowd out that bad habit of making these

35:01

little plans. Yes. Yeah. And

35:04

recognizing that you have and phrase it however you

35:06

want, but I have more

35:08

agency than I

35:11

realize I have more agency than I give

35:13

myself credit for. And this is figure out

35:15

a ball. Like I can figure this out.

35:17

I will figure this out. The

35:19

answer and the solution may not present itself

35:21

in the packaging that I thought it would

35:23

when it's maybe the person that you thought

35:25

you would be with when you were 20

35:29

is not the person you end up being with when

35:31

you're 30 because you've evolved and you've changed. Allow

35:34

yourself room for growth and

35:36

room for change and room for

35:39

questioning when you have certain ideals.

35:41

Whose ideals are these? Are

35:43

these imposed by the cultural messaging of

35:45

my family, of my profession, and

35:48

do they really serve me

35:50

still? I want to

35:52

walk through the eight pillars of optimism that

35:54

you outline in the book. We're just going

35:57

to talk a little bit about each one,

35:59

but you go really in depth in the

36:01

book, which I highly. recommend. Let's start with

36:03

purpose. Can you explain to us why that's

36:05

important for optimism? Yes. So purpose is about

36:07

being intentional and being deliberate. And I talk

36:09

about this with aims. It's about acknowledging what

36:12

it is that you want and how you got here.

36:14

Like a lot of times people are like, purpose is

36:16

scary. It's such a big question. And

36:18

I'm like, it could be purpose in life,

36:20

but it could be purpose in this particular

36:22

activity that you're doing this particular friendship, this

36:24

particular relationship, it could be anything. So just

36:26

get granular about what purpose means to you.

36:29

One of the biggest things that's important for purpose is

36:31

giving back, because a lot of times people

36:33

feel like my life feels like it doesn't

36:35

have purpose. The quickest way, the easiest way

36:37

is do an act of kindness for somebody

36:39

else. And if you can do that on

36:41

repeat, on a regular basis to be like,

36:43

did I do my act of kindness this

36:45

week? A weekly thing, it could

36:48

be a daily thing. I realized that that's a

36:50

big ask. And people may not have

36:52

the time for that. But volunteering can be four times

36:54

a year, it can be five times a year. In

36:56

this one study, they show that people who volunteer 100

36:59

hours a year live longer. Adolescents

37:02

that volunteer by helping little kids out, like

37:04

younger than them with their homework, with artwork,

37:06

they have less inflammation in their body, they're

37:09

less likely to get heart disease when they

37:11

grow up. So get your kids

37:13

into it. That's so cool. That's such a cool

37:15

fact. And you say that

37:17

our job doesn't need to be our

37:19

purpose in life. What happens if

37:21

our job isn't our purpose? We're just like, we're

37:24

clocking in to make money, but then it leaves

37:26

us too tired to find purpose and passion in

37:28

the rest of our lives. Everyone

37:30

we know right now is busy. But

37:32

I would say it's your job. If

37:35

you can't find your purpose, it's your

37:37

job to create it. And

37:39

it doesn't have to be something that

37:41

you do every day, though. If you

37:43

do find meaning, you can find at

37:45

the end of the day, another piece

37:47

of purpose is about cultivating joy. And

37:49

cultivating is an active, actionable verb, where

37:52

you say, if you get

37:54

meaning and joy from painting, from ceramics,

37:56

from pressing leaves into a document in

37:58

something pretty or making cards. If

38:01

you have any artistic bend, if

38:03

you like to cook, anything that

38:05

allows you to experience your creative

38:07

expression and mastery, but then in

38:09

service of someone else. So I

38:11

have a patient who has a

38:13

full-time job, she's in media, she

38:16

enjoys it, but at the end

38:18

of the day, she's like, there's something missing for

38:20

me. What's missing is the creative aspect because a

38:22

lot of people have maybe corporate jobs or working

38:24

for someone else. I say that purpose is

38:27

a creative expression and it's

38:29

your soul's way of engaging with

38:32

the world aligned with your own

38:35

values, talents, skills, and

38:37

hobbies. And I think

38:39

that's key that everyone has an outlet where

38:41

they have creative expression. So she ended up

38:43

on her days off or carving

38:46

out an evening to do artwork and then was

38:48

giving those to friends for like birthday presents and

38:50

it brought her so much joy to go to

38:52

their houses and to see her artwork on there.

38:54

Great. That's so interesting. So would

38:56

cooking for yourself be passion, but

38:59

cooking for another person be purpose?

39:02

Yes. Oh, that's such an interesting

39:04

framing. I've never heard that before. Like you

39:06

can turn your passion into purpose when you

39:08

align it with benefit for

39:10

somebody else. They see that in a

39:13

study, healthcare workers are more likely to

39:15

wash their own hands knowing

39:17

that they were spreading less infection to other

39:19

people. So if you want to get someone

39:21

to do something, you want to get someone

39:24

to recycle, whatever it is you want to

39:26

get someone to do, tell them that other

39:28

people are benefiting as a result of this

39:30

action. And they're so much happier and so

39:32

much more willing to comply if they

39:35

know that their little act

39:37

of kindness impacted someone else. I think at

39:39

the core of it, it doesn't seem like it with all that's happening

39:42

in the world right now, but at the core of it, people

39:44

are really good at heart and they really do want

39:46

to help other people most of the time. If

39:49

you're listening to this and you've been feeling

39:51

like a little adrift, like you don't really

39:53

have a sense of purpose, would a good

39:55

Action plan for you to be to take something

39:58

that you're already doing and... Do.

40:00

It for to be Lcs and somebody who

40:02

would appreciate it rains. not my be there

40:04

trickier part but loneliness. same idea. The best

40:06

way to cure your own loneliness is to

40:08

reach out to somebody else to ask them

40:10

how they're doing. And a lot of times

40:13

when someone is feeling down or lonely or

40:15

loss from confused or like I don't have

40:17

the bandwidth to help someone else or be

40:19

like why? like on no one is lonely,

40:21

no one else is shutting And that's pessimistic

40:23

thinking. No one else is checking up on

40:25

me. No one else did this for me.

40:27

Why should I help someone else when I

40:29

was sad. When I was grieving when I was

40:32

mourning the loss of a relationship when I went

40:34

to a break up, nobody asked me how I

40:36

was doing. And you can sit there and you

40:38

can get succeeded. You know it's like you can

40:40

be right or you can be happy threat. Which

40:42

one do you want? Be. Wow.

40:45

Talk to me about the relationship between

40:47

purpose and working out at found this

40:49

fascinating? Yeah, I find it so fascinating.

40:52

Puzzles like I never thought of the

40:54

two together. And if you feel like

40:56

you are lost on purpose, go for

40:58

a workout because the exercise itself boost

41:01

our brain derived Nourish Rafik factor. Your

41:03

test scores will be better, your memory

41:05

will be. I'm a moron points but

41:07

a person who exercises feels like they

41:10

have purpose and then a person who

41:12

as purpose is more likely to. Exercise.

41:14

So it's this beautiful, virtuous cycle

41:16

of putting the cart before the

41:19

horse and then. That. Cart

41:21

pays dividends, so it really does

41:23

pay off when you're not feeling

41:25

like it to do with anyway.

41:27

There's so much benefit and doing

41:29

it anyway. Now. That said,

41:31

to really solid accepts for purpose

41:34

weiner take passion, do it for

41:36

somebody else who will appreciate it

41:38

To. work out the and

41:40

interests that that i'll have a really interesting and cyclical

41:43

a fat yes and you will be in a better

41:45

mood and you'll be more likely to bands pick up

41:47

on all things that need to get down because most

41:49

people have some idea in the back of their mind

41:51

of what they want to do i was if money

41:53

wasn't a problem is time wasn't a problems what would

41:56

you be doing what makes you have fun what lights

41:58

you op and also remember that it's you purpose.

42:00

No one else needs to approve it. So

42:02

drop the judgment and take a chance. Love

42:05

it. Okay. Next is processing

42:07

emotions. What does that mean?

42:09

And why is it important to optimism? So

42:12

it's so important that you not suppress your

42:14

emotions. It actually takes more energy and effort

42:16

to suppress the emotions than it does to

42:19

simply release them. And

42:21

we see that people who journal even

42:23

15 minutes a day, again, benefit from

42:25

all of the wound healing, the immune

42:27

system, the less cold cause infections, just

42:30

15 minutes a day. When

42:32

you are bottling your emotions up, you end

42:34

up getting a lot of physical ailments. They

42:36

call this like type personality D.

42:38

We've all heard of like type A

42:40

and type B. Well, personality D

42:42

is like this angry person and this person

42:45

who suppresses emotions. It is very well known

42:47

and correlated with more heart disease. So if

42:50

you want to do yourself good from a physical

42:52

health point of view, talk about

42:54

how you feel. If you don't feel like you

42:56

have a safe space with friends, consider therapy. If

42:58

that doesn't work out, keep a regular journal. We're

43:00

15 minutes a day. You

43:03

do something called a worry diary, which may

43:05

seem counterintuitive. Why would I talk about my

43:07

worries? Like write them down. I'm trying to

43:09

get away from them. The

43:11

act of doing this helps in what we call

43:13

desensitization. Where you write about the things you worry

43:15

about. And you noticed, like

43:17

we said before, the vast majority of times,

43:19

they never happen. And then you start to

43:21

see a pattern. I'm worrying about the same

43:23

things, how interesting. And

43:26

so I give a little exercise, take home, name

43:28

it, claim it, tame

43:31

it, and reframe it. So

43:33

naming it is like, what am I feeling? What's the

43:35

antecedent? What was the trigger? Okay, so I got

43:38

yelled at today, you know, at work. And

43:40

okay, I'm going to claim it. So like, I'm

43:42

feeling sad. Where am I feeling it? And headache

43:44

and bowel movements. I keep going to the bathroom

43:46

because of it. I'm peeing a lot because of

43:48

it. I'm waking up. It's causing me insomnia. So

43:51

getting really granular and people who are granular, we

43:53

know this for a fact are less likely to

43:55

have anxiety and depression. And if they do, it

43:57

goes by, they get better quicker because they know

43:59

the direct antecedent and causes for

44:01

them feeling down. And

44:03

then taming it, and there's a variety of things you can

44:06

do. The journal for me is one of the best and

44:08

it's one of the easiest. And also engaging

44:10

in like quick exercise, how am I going to

44:12

feel about this five years from now? And

44:15

most of the time you'll say, okay, I'm not even going to think about

44:17

this. I'm not even going to remember this. What

44:19

would I tell a friend? What is another way

44:21

of looking at these? So these are like ways

44:23

to kind of challenge your cognitive distortions. First

44:26

you'd have to recognize that you're engaging in one. And

44:29

then reframing it. This is

44:31

where all the money is at, right? Because

44:33

reframing is such a powerful tool. One of

44:35

the hats that I used to wear was

44:38

I was a medical director of the 9-11

44:40

mental health program and helped 9-11 survivors. And

44:43

I don't know how someone ever reframed something negative

44:45

like that. But most

44:47

of us, God forbid, like won't go through that,

44:50

right? It'll be the daily small t, the daily

44:52

hassles. Ask yourself, is there a way

44:54

for me to look at the situation in a

44:56

different light? Is there

44:58

a way for me to look at the situation in

45:00

a positive light? So a lot of times people will

45:02

say, oh, I'm really upset I didn't get that job,

45:04

or I went on those dates and it didn't work

45:06

out. Later on they'll say to

45:08

me, I feel like I dodged a bullet, right? Like at

45:10

the time I was so angry and upset that it didn't

45:13

work out in my favor. But I wouldn't

45:15

have gotten this even better, fill in the blank, had

45:17

I not gotten rejected. It wasn't meant for me. You

45:20

know, I tried writing a book proposal and

45:22

a book like very early on in my career. I had

45:24

an agent, but it didn't go anywhere. I can't believe neither

45:26

one of us, but you know, I just said I have

45:28

to come back. I had two young kids. And

45:30

I'm glad it didn't work out because I could

45:33

not have written this book that was meant to

45:35

be written at this time with my life circumstances,

45:37

having become a mother, having lost a mother. All

45:40

the things that I went through have made me a better

45:42

clinician. But I know that we want

45:44

things like yesterday. And so

45:47

being able to reframe it

45:49

and say maybe there's something better. So name

45:51

it, claim it, tame it, and reframe

45:53

it. Can

45:55

you briefly say how

45:58

practical optimism differs? from toxic positivity

46:00

because I think even hearing you say that,

46:03

I'm like, yes, yes, yes. But then I

46:05

could also see somebody saying, well, not everything

46:07

is good and I'm not gonna be able

46:09

to have this positive reaction to everything. Yes.

46:11

100%. Like the first and

46:13

most important thing you have to do

46:15

when you're experiencing something painful is to

46:17

sit in it and say, this freaking

46:20

sucks. I am mad. I

46:22

am bitter. I am resentful. I want

46:24

you to own all of the negativity.

46:26

That's a claimant. Yes. Yes, exactly. So

46:28

the claimant is essentially the thing that

46:31

protects it from being toxic positivity. Exactly. Exactly. Because

46:33

in no way are we saying when you're in

46:35

the depths of something really, really, really down, like

46:37

I can even say, okay, yeah, I'm feeling like

46:39

crap right now, but I know a week

46:42

from now, a month from now, five years from

46:44

now, whatever it is, I'll feel better. But like

46:46

at this moment, just leave me be in my

46:48

negativity and let me stir and be pissed off

46:50

whatever that didn't work out for me. I want

46:52

you to claim it and I want you to

46:54

sit in it, right? But I just don't want

46:56

you to stew and dwell beyond a certain point.

46:58

And when it comes to venting, I think

47:01

venting is very important. Ask permission

47:03

to vent. Is this a good time for you? Is it

47:05

okay? I have this on my mind. And

47:07

then be respectful, obviously, of looking at the

47:09

other person's body language and knowing when to

47:11

end. But it's important that if you vent,

47:14

after a certain amount of time, if you're in

47:16

therapy, do what you got to do, right? But

47:18

otherwise, there's a point where there's a

47:20

cost benefit trade off where when you're

47:22

too stewing, then you start activating

47:25

that negativity we talked about on the right side

47:27

of the brain, and the pessimism and the downward

47:29

spiral. So I want you to claim

47:31

it, but not stewing it. Is there

47:33

an ideal length of time to vent? If

47:36

you're having a conversation with a friend and you haven't

47:38

seen them in a long time, like there's a variety

47:40

of reasons why you wouldn't want to spend two hours.

47:42

But like, if you have just gotten through a major

47:45

rejection, a major whatever, you're going to sit and talk about it

47:47

for a while. So I don't want to put a number on

47:49

it. But depending on the magnitude

47:51

and the severity, it could be 15, 20

47:55

minutes to like two hours, which is a long time. But At

47:57

the same time, I Don't want someone to feel like they can't

47:59

ask for help. Can't read it. had something

48:01

but one thing I would say is that

48:03

if you feel like it's this negative loop,

48:05

that's when you want to get help to

48:08

interrupt it and that's worth getting out of

48:10

the house. going for walks, walks a really

48:12

good and interrupting the cycle of rumination and

48:14

so is. Going. To. A

48:17

beautiful needs nature or in a museum

48:19

architect traveling. all of those things that

48:21

make you feel small and insignificant. It

48:23

sounds funny, but that's what you need

48:25

to do to shut off the Roman

48:27

a Son is. You have to realize

48:29

that I am one part of something

48:31

so beautiful and so great to give

48:33

you context and perspective. I love

48:36

that. Okay problem solving this when

48:38

surprised me. I wouldn't have naturally

48:40

groups problem solving with optimism. Why

48:42

do they go together? Problem solving

48:44

is such a big part of

48:46

optimism because it's this is what

48:48

you do when things don't work

48:50

out feel. So this is how

48:52

it practical optimism differs from toxic

48:54

positivity were toxic positivity like Ross.

48:56

So far it's everything will work

48:59

out yea and almighty. Okay well

49:01

how. Rights. And the problem

49:03

solving is the how raid. And so it's

49:05

like figure out all of the obstacles that

49:07

are in your way, both in the physical

49:09

world and then also in your head to

49:12

part of problem solving his emotional regulation. Because

49:14

part of our obstacles are all the negativity.

49:16

I can't do it. It won't work out

49:18

for me. No one will like me. No

49:21

one will show up. They're going say I

49:23

suck right? That's what you have to take

49:25

control of so that you can quiet it.

49:28

And then get out into the world.

49:30

And then if you want to execute

49:32

that, the habit or the behavior, think

49:35

of all the obstacles, the troubleshooting. so

49:37

practical optimists. Every single one of the

49:39

A pillars is equally important. but this

49:41

is the logistics. This and practicing healthy

49:43

habits is you interacting with the world.

49:46

So if you're like in your little

49:48

box. At. home it's like great i can

49:50

be as positive as i want i can imagine i

49:52

can manifest can do all these things but then i'm

49:54

out in the real world and like ninety nine

49:56

things are not gonna work out i'm not an

49:58

excess the train on time That's how it differs. It's

50:00

all in the fact that like, yeah, shit's not gonna go my

50:03

way, but you know what, I'm gonna try again. This is what

50:05

I'm gonna do. This is who I'm gonna ask. This is who

50:07

I'm gonna call. I've got

50:09

a list. I've got plan A through

50:11

Z ready if needed. What's

50:13

one specific thing that we often do wrong

50:15

when we're trying to problem solve? Not

50:18

anticipate for obstacles,

50:21

not ask for help, not have

50:23

contingency plans in place and to give up

50:26

too easily. Can you give

50:28

us one specific tip to be better problem

50:30

solvers? To take a break.

50:32

When things don't work out, to hit

50:34

pause instead of hit stop and

50:37

to say, you know what, it's late. Maybe

50:39

I'm tired. Maybe I've been ruminating on this

50:41

too much. Maybe I'm too attached to the

50:43

outcome to be able to remove

50:45

myself and think objectively because this is all

50:47

I'm doing. Then I'm like, you know, bathing

50:50

in this one project that I want so

50:52

badly that has not worked for me right

50:54

now. Getting feedback, going outside and talking and

50:56

troubleshooting with someone and saying like, I really

50:59

value your opinion. What do you

51:01

think? What do you see my outcomes

51:03

as being? And then also the acceptance

51:05

part, saying that is this a problem

51:07

to be solved or a truth to be accepted?

51:09

And I think at some point you may need

51:12

to let go and say, I've done my due

51:14

diligence. I've done everything. And maybe this isn't meant

51:16

to be for now. When I think of rejection,

51:18

I just think of it as a no for

51:21

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Breathwork is one of my super hacks for life. If

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just inhaling and exhaling? That

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take a break is so important and it's why it

57:28

makes me so mad when people say don't go to

57:30

bed angry because I'm like, you're tired. You're

57:33

not going to be solving an argument as well now as

57:35

you would in the morning after you've slept well. I

57:38

also work with couples and I'll say, you

57:41

know, nothing good happens after 9pm because

57:43

you're both tired or hungry or both and

57:45

you can't problem solve at night. So

57:48

100% come back, you will come back while rested, you will have a

57:50

sense of humor and have a sense of humor. Like that's the key

57:52

when things don't work out. We know that

57:54

with couples having a sense of humor is

57:56

a big part of it. Pride. Why

57:58

does pride matter? for being optimistic. You

58:01

know, when people think of pride, they have

58:03

like a negative association because I think it's associated with arrogance

58:05

or they're just like, I don't get it, like where does

58:08

this fit in? But pride really,

58:10

the way that I've defined it is

58:12

self-compassion. And I think self-compassion is

58:14

what we need. I talk about self-esteem. I

58:16

don't love the idea of self-esteem. I found that fascinating

58:18

that you didn't like the idea of self-esteem. Yeah, because

58:21

like it's all we talked about when I was growing

58:23

up, like, oh, we need to boost our kids self-esteem.

58:25

And I think that they're on the right crack

58:28

in the sense that how we view

58:30

ourselves, the problem is your self-worth should

58:32

never be attached to external achievements and

58:34

accomplishments because it's like the weather. You

58:36

know, one day it's great and one

58:38

day it's not. Whereas self-compassion

58:40

is more like climate. It's like more

58:42

stable and steady over a longer period

58:44

of time. It doesn't fluctuate with that

58:46

level of variation day to day, hour

58:49

to hour, whereas weather can. And

58:51

self-compassion is something that I really needed.

58:53

And I think a lot of people

58:55

who are either giving or highly

58:58

accomplished their whole focus is on

59:00

doing. And there's no grace

59:02

for being. And it's like, I get

59:04

to rest simply because I'm human. I

59:06

have worth simply because I'm human. This

59:09

is a personal question, but can

59:11

you give one tip for feeling

59:13

like we have self-worth outside of

59:16

our accomplishments? If in the

59:18

moment I feel like I must do to

59:20

have value, is there something that I'm

59:22

telling myself to say, you're okay just to be

59:24

right now? Yes, this is something I struggle with,

59:26

growing up in a family where they put so

59:28

much emphasis on productivity and achievement and giving back

59:30

to others. And that was a big one, is

59:32

giving back. We would have all of

59:35

these things that we would expect it to do every

59:37

day. And so I've carried that and this

59:39

is my burden. If I don't have anything to show

59:41

for the day, if I wasn't productive, God forbid I'm

59:43

sick and I can't work at 150% speed and whatever.

59:47

I feel like crap about myself. This

59:49

is something I'm actively struggling and dealing

59:51

and working with. And so I

59:53

had to tell myself, you don't have

59:56

to ask permission for rest. You are owed this. And

59:58

this came up this week, I don't know. if you

1:00:00

follow the six-day energy challenge in the New York

1:00:02

Times, and I was interviewed for the first day

1:00:04

and the fifth day, and the first day was

1:00:06

about creating Oasis moments. So Oasis

1:00:09

moments are carving out like a five-minute

1:00:11

block of time where you're resting, you're

1:00:13

not achieving anything, it's not necessarily a

1:00:15

meditation, but you're acknowledging the

1:00:17

importance of daytime rest and adding to

1:00:20

your productivity. So here's what I would

1:00:22

say. Own the fact that

1:00:24

you feel the need to be productive. It's part of who

1:00:26

you are. It's not going to change. Nor

1:00:28

do I think you need to change it because it makes

1:00:30

you so successful, right? So

1:00:33

instead, what is more likely

1:00:35

for you to embrace is these five-minute breaks that

1:00:37

you can take once a day, twice a

1:00:39

day, however often you need them. And I feel like five is

1:00:41

a perfect number because you're not going to feel guilty, oh my

1:00:43

God, I wasted so much time. We actually

1:00:45

see this when it comes to leisure time, that the

1:00:47

people who benefit from it the most are those who

1:00:50

see the value in it. So if I told someone

1:00:52

like you, okay, go take a month off and just

1:00:54

go, I don't know, do nothing. Go

1:00:57

travel. I'm on so many amazing podcasts. And

1:00:59

like you're just always doing so many things. You

1:01:01

might feel restless after a certain amount of time. Like I have patients who

1:01:04

call me from their vacation. They're like, what am I doing here? I need

1:01:06

to be doing, oh, this is too weird. I have too much time off.

1:01:08

I don't know what to do with myself. And

1:01:10

they say like the idle mind is the devil's

1:01:12

playground. So for some people, long

1:01:14

periods of time, it doesn't work. But if I

1:01:17

told you that five minutes is part of your

1:01:19

like medical prescription, I'm asking you and you are

1:01:21

going to, and they showed a study that people

1:01:23

are more productive at the end of their workday

1:01:25

throughout their day who do this daytime rest. So

1:01:27

whether it's five minute oasis moments, you shut everything

1:01:29

off, you're sitting in your chair, you can lie

1:01:32

down on the floor, whether it's a 15 minute

1:01:34

nap. If you know

1:01:36

that this is my productivity hack, this is what

1:01:38

I'm doing to be more productive, you're

1:01:40

more likely to embrace it. I love

1:01:42

that. It's also putting the cart before

1:01:44

the horse. Like I'm not having to

1:01:46

believe that I have words outside of

1:01:48

my doing. I'm actually doing something that

1:01:50

will translate into me having that self

1:01:52

worth. Yes. Okay. Proficiency.

1:01:55

Why is that related to optimism? So

1:01:57

proficiency is more about your confidence in.

1:02:00

your ability than your actual ability. And I'm never

1:02:02

saying don't get actual ability. Don't fool yourself into

1:02:04

thinking you're something that you're not. But

1:02:07

if two people have equal amounts of ability, what's going to

1:02:09

change is the fact that you think you're going to win.

1:02:11

So they did a study where they put two

1:02:14

athletes against each other and they, one person

1:02:16

is in on the experiment, the other person

1:02:19

isn't. And they tell the person who isn't,

1:02:21

hey, you're playing against somebody who's

1:02:23

not that great. And so when you

1:02:25

think you're going to win, you bring your best game and

1:02:27

you're like, I got this, I'm going to do great.

1:02:29

And the skill and the experience

1:02:31

of the other player didn't

1:02:33

change in the next experiment.

1:02:35

All that changes. And then they told the

1:02:38

second person, this person is

1:02:40

a lot better than you. And

1:02:42

their confidence got eroded and they're like, I'm not

1:02:44

going to win. So they just didn't try. And

1:02:47

so we are more likely to come

1:02:50

150% if we think that we

1:02:53

have a chance. And

1:02:55

we see this like with kids going into

1:02:57

a classroom when they're told that the kids

1:02:59

are going to be friendly. When you expect

1:03:01

the best, you get the best because you

1:03:03

bring the best. Great.

1:03:06

Fascinating. Okay. So what's one trick that we

1:03:08

can do to go into any situation thinking

1:03:10

we're going to win? So first thing I

1:03:12

would say is be prepared. There is no

1:03:14

substitute for preparation. Once you're prepared, let it

1:03:16

go. So I had to give a

1:03:18

big keynote speech and I hadn't done something like this.

1:03:20

There were like thousands of people, I was like scared.

1:03:22

I was like, okay, I have been talking to in

1:03:24

TV interviews, like three people at most, five people, because

1:03:26

there were a couple of people in the studio. Well,

1:03:28

millions, you just don't see them. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. I

1:03:30

don't see them. You're right. And so this, it started

1:03:32

getting into my head of like, okay, and it was

1:03:34

a 60 minute speech and there were no slides and

1:03:36

I had to memorize it and I had written it and changed

1:03:39

and revised and like, who are these people going to be? Are

1:03:41

they going to get it? Are they going to love it? Blah,

1:03:43

blah, blah. And then what I did the day before, it was

1:03:45

in a different city, which is sight see. And

1:03:47

I was like, there's no point in me

1:03:49

sitting here going over and over and over

1:03:51

again. It'll be great. I'm going to do

1:03:53

fine. But I got feedback. I hired someone,

1:03:55

an editor, to give me feedback. And so

1:03:57

part of self-efficacy is having role models, having

1:04:00

mentors getting feedback, right? And this is someone who

1:04:02

was like, had been a speaking coach and was

1:04:04

just like, okay, this will resonate, this will not.

1:04:06

And so I felt prepared because I did the

1:04:08

preparation, but I also brought in someone and that's

1:04:10

not something I've ever done before, like really like,

1:04:13

get that professional input on speaking, because I've been

1:04:15

doing this for so long and I feel like

1:04:17

I know what I'm talking about. But recognizing what

1:04:20

is not your expertise, which is entertaining

1:04:22

people for 60 minutes with all and educating,

1:04:24

right? So know what you're good

1:04:26

at, know your blind spots, know where you

1:04:28

need help, get additional help. And

1:04:31

the one thing I would say is there's so many

1:04:33

ways. So Albert Bandura is

1:04:35

the expert in self-efficacy and he says that you

1:04:37

can learn things by doing them yourself, you can

1:04:39

do them vicariously, you can do them by getting

1:04:41

a role model, you can watch athletes. So there's

1:04:44

so many ways of learning, it doesn't have to

1:04:46

be you, but he always believed that doing

1:04:48

things yourself is the best way to do it. And

1:04:51

there's a quote by Rumi and says,

1:04:53

you know, basically don't get enamored with

1:04:55

the tales of others. Go out and

1:04:58

unfold your own myth. So at the end of the day,

1:05:00

you can read and you can talk, but

1:05:02

you have to do it. So again, it's without a

1:05:04

belief in your abilities. And

1:05:06

I don't wanna say fake it till you make

1:05:08

it, but at least fake the confidence. And the

1:05:10

more that you do the thing, the more you'll

1:05:12

come into the situation with the belief that you

1:05:15

will win. Exactly, exactly. And then being able to

1:05:17

celebrate your wins, that's a big part of it.

1:05:19

That actually helps it, that on the reverse

1:05:21

side, it'll help you believe you're gonna win more?

1:05:23

Yeah, because I think so many of us have

1:05:25

blocks to like enjoying and we're always on to

1:05:28

like the next achievement, the next goal. And because

1:05:30

we're perfectionists, we may not be able to like

1:05:32

sit with the compliments, but the talk went well,

1:05:34

it was a standing ovation. So many like people

1:05:36

came to me afterwards. And so

1:05:38

then I realized it's hard for me to take in

1:05:40

the positive. It's always like, oh, but should I have

1:05:42

done this? Don't get mired in

1:05:44

the negativity. Stick with what worked and then

1:05:47

do more of it. Being

1:05:49

present. Can you give us

1:05:51

one tip for being more present in our

1:05:54

lives? Yes, when we're not present,

1:05:56

it's because we are stuck in the past. We're

1:05:58

stuck in the present with other people. people's comparisons or are

1:06:01

worried about the future. And

1:06:04

figure out where your trap is. Are you stuck

1:06:06

in one of those three tenses? Because when one of

1:06:08

those, we're never going to be present. When

1:06:11

you are talking to someone, I know right now we

1:06:13

may have devices, but like put the font away. The

1:06:16

likelihood of you being present is a lot lower because

1:06:18

you know that you're going to get

1:06:20

an interruption or distraction. And

1:06:22

the other thing I would say is don't

1:06:24

get caught up in your own negative thoughts. Think

1:06:27

of them as you would think of baggages

1:06:30

on a baggage carousel at the

1:06:32

airport. You might notice other

1:06:34

people's baggage. You might have opinions about them,

1:06:36

but you're not taking them home with you,

1:06:39

right? You notice them and you let

1:06:41

them go. So think of your

1:06:43

own thoughts as other people's baggage that you are

1:06:46

not taking home with you. Oh,

1:06:48

that's such a good metaphor. I love that. What about

1:06:51

when we're by ourselves? So like phone devices are

1:06:53

away and then is the baggage tip for when

1:06:55

we're by ourselves essentially and trying to be present

1:06:57

in those moments. Yeah. And I would

1:06:59

also say you don't have to fill up every moment

1:07:01

of your day. I saw a

1:07:03

person at Starbucks, they were not scrolling

1:07:06

on their phones. They were just

1:07:08

drinking their coffee quietly by themselves.

1:07:10

What a psychopath. And

1:07:13

I was like, we just don't do that anymore. A

1:07:15

lot of times people will say, I'm in the shower,

1:07:17

I have the TV on or I'm at home and

1:07:19

I've always gotten noise. So try to turn down the

1:07:22

noise and the stimulation from the outside and

1:07:24

try to do things single mindedly. A

1:07:26

lot of times we buy into this

1:07:29

whole multitasking and really all you're doing

1:07:31

is compromising the quality on everything you're

1:07:33

doing. When you're washing dishes, just

1:07:35

wash dishes. Don't feel like you have to also listen

1:07:37

to a podcast or something. I mean, it's great. They

1:07:40

should listen to your podcast. But just leave space. Sometimes

1:07:42

you can wash the dishes with the podcast and sometimes

1:07:44

you can just wash the dishes. I've

1:07:46

been practicing at red lights, not reaching for my phone, which

1:07:49

feels so silly, but it's a habit when I'm sitting at

1:07:51

red light, I'll reach for my phone and just see if

1:07:53

anybody's messaged me. And I've just

1:07:55

sat at the red light and it's a tiny, tiny

1:07:57

moment, but it makes such a huge difference. And

1:08:00

you're reclaiming your time and your attention, and

1:08:02

that's what being present is about. However you

1:08:04

feel like you're reclaiming it, if it's at

1:08:06

bedtime, there's power in that to me because

1:08:08

we are so addicted to our devices that

1:08:10

there's power in saying no to it. No,

1:08:12

you are not the boss of me. I

1:08:15

am. And then we've talked a

1:08:17

lot about the people and the practicing

1:08:19

healthy habits, but just to round us out,

1:08:22

can you maybe share one more really

1:08:24

actionable tip for people as our pillar

1:08:26

of optimism and one more for practicing

1:08:28

healthy habits? Yes. So for people, the

1:08:30

two parts are developing what I call

1:08:32

an aloneness practice. So learning to appreciate

1:08:34

your own company, taking yourself out on

1:08:36

a date. I saw this whole thing

1:08:38

about book parties. It's not a

1:08:40

book club. It's like people getting together at a bar

1:08:42

or the restaurant. I saw this on TikTok. That looks

1:08:44

like my dream interaction. I know. I

1:08:46

love that, right? And so this idea of

1:08:49

creating time for yourself and a book

1:08:51

is probably one of the best ways.

1:08:53

Or really just walking without necessarily listening

1:08:55

to anything, spending time in nature. Meaningful

1:08:58

engagement to me is about going

1:09:00

deep and going vulnerable and being

1:09:02

authentic in conversations. And there's

1:09:04

a dance and there's a delicate balance to

1:09:06

it. So it's sharing when appropriate about

1:09:09

yourself, if you feel comfortable and if there's trust,

1:09:11

and then also asking someone how they're doing and

1:09:13

how they're really doing and inviting them

1:09:16

to open up and then to

1:09:18

follow up with people. So I'm a

1:09:20

big believer in the aloneness practice

1:09:22

and then having meaningfully, emotionally attuned conversations

1:09:24

where you're sensing the emotional content and

1:09:27

then validating and saying, I'm so

1:09:29

sorry, tell me more. Oh,

1:09:31

that's amazing. So listening for

1:09:33

the emotions and then the micro connections. I love the

1:09:35

micro connections. I'm happy you brought it up because I

1:09:37

was going to ask you about it because we talk

1:09:39

about micro workouts all the time. We talk about micro

1:09:41

habits and I love the idea of adding a micro

1:09:44

people practice into the mix. Yes.

1:09:48

And that's exactly what it is. It is a people practice and being very intentional.

1:09:50

Like there was a patient who was

1:09:52

like, you know, I'm going to go through ankle surgery

1:09:54

and I don't want to be alone. So she sent

1:09:56

out a calendar invite

1:09:58

and said, just please. I don't

1:10:00

need anything from anyone. I just want someone to

1:10:02

come sit with me and hang out with me.

1:10:04

So populate my calendar with whenever you're available. So

1:10:06

people are so afraid of like, oh my god,

1:10:09

I don't want to seem like desperate or lonely.

1:10:11

And like when you meet someone and you exchange

1:10:13

phone numbers, keep in touch with them. Say I

1:10:15

thought of you, oh, you need to listen to

1:10:17

this podcast. You made me think of this. This

1:10:19

was a follow up to our conversation. I've become

1:10:21

intentional about trying to follow up the last

1:10:23

thing. And I always keep in mind when I see someone

1:10:25

at a party, I always think to myself

1:10:27

like at that moment, like what was the last thing this

1:10:29

person told me about themselves and what was going on

1:10:32

in their life? Their parent was sick or like they

1:10:34

were looking for a job or a home. I will

1:10:36

always ask. And that's something I learned

1:10:38

from my dad because he was such a good listener

1:10:40

and he was always really good about following up and

1:10:43

celebrating people. So natural compliments where they fit and make

1:10:45

sense, being authentic and

1:10:47

sharing and asking. Love

1:10:49

that. And then for healthy habits? Yeah,

1:10:51

if there's something you really, really, really want to

1:10:53

do, I want people to carve

1:10:56

out the time, be intentional about how

1:10:58

it's going to happen, what are potential

1:11:00

ways that things could get in the way,

1:11:03

have an accountability partner on it, and

1:11:06

then to make it simple and

1:11:08

easy, lower the entry barrier. One example

1:11:11

that I love to give where accountability comes in,

1:11:13

it's like have a friend. And

1:11:15

I know this is not realistic, but figure out what works for

1:11:17

you is let's say you had a running partner. Two

1:11:20

people swap sneakers because they know

1:11:22

that if they don't show up, the other person

1:11:24

can't run. So in whatever way

1:11:26

that makes sense to you, if it's signing up for a class,

1:11:28

I know a lot of people are like, oh, I just won't

1:11:30

go to the class and I'll lose the

1:11:32

money. That's not something I would feel comfortable with,

1:11:34

like signing up and not going or telling a

1:11:37

friend. So whatever way that you know you can't

1:11:39

get out of it, that's what you do if

1:11:41

it's something that you really want to do or

1:11:43

hire a coach or hire an editor so that

1:11:45

you have deadlines if it's something that you're trying

1:11:47

to write. So you hold yourself accountable in advance.

1:11:49

I love that. OK, we've covered a lot today.

1:11:51

Can you leave us with just one homework assignment,

1:11:53

something that we can do as soon as we

1:11:55

turn off this podcast that will have a

1:11:57

powerful, noticeable impact on our ability to be

1:11:59

practical. Yes. So

1:12:01

can I give you two? Yes.

1:12:04

Okay. So one is that best

1:12:06

possible scenario, advice of that exercise

1:12:08

of leading and guiding, create five

1:12:10

or 10 minutes and envision a

1:12:12

problem in your life, envision a

1:12:14

path out of that problem, describe

1:12:16

how the problem makes you feel, describe

1:12:18

the path, and then experience

1:12:21

the positive emotions associated with reaching

1:12:23

the best possible scenario. And I

1:12:25

want you to feel all the

1:12:27

positivity, the relief, the release of

1:12:29

achieving what you wanted. And then

1:12:31

I want you to sit with

1:12:33

those positive emotions and then invoke

1:12:35

them throughout the day to be

1:12:37

like, oh, this is what it

1:12:39

felt like to win how amazing

1:12:41

this is and carry that throughout

1:12:43

your day. And the other thing I

1:12:45

would say is the four M's of

1:12:47

mental health are four very quick science

1:12:49

back techniques that you can do and

1:12:51

create a calendar for it and make

1:12:54

sure that you meet the

1:12:56

four M's every single week. So

1:12:58

meaningful engagement, who are you going to call

1:13:00

or see in person ideally that week? Mastery,

1:13:03

what 10 or 15 minute scale or hobby are you

1:13:05

going to hone? What is it that you want to

1:13:07

do? You don't have to be a master to experience

1:13:09

mastery. Is it the cooking? Is it the pottery? Is

1:13:11

it the painting? Is it the salsa dancing? What

1:13:14

is it that you want to do or learn? And that

1:13:16

puts us in a flow state, which is so important,

1:13:18

learning and having fun. The mindfulness

1:13:21

is the five minute oasis

1:13:23

moment exercise or meditation. And

1:13:25

then the movement is just like

1:13:27

what you talk about a lot like the micro movement.

1:13:30

Love that. Can you tell us a little bit in your own

1:13:32

words about your beautiful book? Oh,

1:13:35

thank you. I want to tell you about

1:13:37

the cover. I wanted to pick the right

1:13:39

cover because it needed to say something that

1:13:41

understood or could recognize hardship

1:13:43

in life, but also celebrate

1:13:45

positivity and wins. And I love the ocean.

1:13:48

And so it had to be like that

1:13:50

light blue cover. And then the lemon is

1:13:52

about okay, things don't always work out your

1:13:54

way, right? But then how do you make

1:13:56

it into lemonade? And, you know, we

1:13:58

came up with a couple of different concepts. and I love

1:14:00

the idea of like this straw, like just being stuck,

1:14:02

it says, through it, life

1:14:04

is gonna throw me lemons, but I'm gonna make a party

1:14:06

out of it. So not only did I put this straw,

1:14:09

but I put a little cocktail umbrella in it that says,

1:14:11

and I'm gonna jazz it up. And that's really what the

1:14:13

book is about, is it's not just the

1:14:15

lemonade, which is great, lemonade's wonderful, but how are

1:14:17

we gonna go to the optimal functioning? And

1:14:20

it's about thriving. So, you know, the book

1:14:22

comes out February 20th, anywhere

1:14:24

books are sold. And if

1:14:26

there's one thing, any gift that you give to

1:14:28

yourself, let this be the gift of wellness, of

1:14:30

optimal wellness, of optimal and exceptional wellness for you

1:14:32

and for the people in your life. So I

1:14:34

hope that you get it. I hope that you

1:14:36

practice it. I hope that you share it. Well,

1:14:38

and what I loved about the book

1:14:41

is it's so pragmatic. You have like

1:14:43

a script for

1:14:45

a therapy session that you can do with

1:14:47

yourself. There's just so many very actionable things

1:14:49

on every single page. You packed in so

1:14:51

much information. So I think it's gonna be

1:14:53

an incredible resource for people. Thank you. Thank

1:14:56

you so much for joining me today. It's

1:14:59

such a pleasure. You're such a wealth of resource

1:15:01

yourself, knowledge and information. Oh my gosh, thank you.

1:15:03

You're such an enjoyable conversation. Thank you. I

1:15:06

hope you loved this episode. I love Dr.

1:15:08

Varma's tools so much. You all know that

1:15:10

I, can I get enough of a micro

1:15:12

habit? There are just so many takeaways in

1:15:14

here that I never heard anywhere before. And

1:15:16

that feel actually simple and

1:15:19

doable to apply to our lives.

1:15:22

If you have a friend or a family member

1:15:24

that you think could benefit from hearing all of

1:15:26

this wisdom, please share a link to the episode

1:15:28

with them. This information could be life

1:15:30

changing. I feel like for so many people, it was really

1:15:33

life changing for me. This is like I said, it's something

1:15:35

that I've had to work on, but

1:15:37

I want to feel better every day and I

1:15:39

don't want it to feel like such a slog,

1:15:42

such an effort every single day. So if

1:15:44

you know anybody like that, please, please send

1:15:46

them a link to the episode. It's also

1:15:49

the best way to support the podcast and

1:15:51

it is so, so appreciated. If

1:15:53

someone shared a link with you and you are

1:15:56

new to the podcast, welcome. I am so glad

1:15:58

that you're here. Make sure. that

1:16:00

you are following the podcast on whatever

1:16:02

platform you like to listen on. All

1:16:05

you have to do is go to the

1:16:07

main podcast page. That's the one that lists

1:16:09

all of the Liz Moody podcast episodes and

1:16:11

you will see the word follow under the

1:16:13

logo on Spotify and then there's a little

1:16:15

follow with a plus sign button on the

1:16:17

top right of that same page on Apple

1:16:19

Podcast. Also Apple just did

1:16:21

an update that is very annoying. So

1:16:23

if you follow the podcast there, even

1:16:25

if you have been following it for

1:16:27

a while, go to that little

1:16:30

button in the top right of the page

1:16:32

that lists all of the Liz Moody podcast

1:16:34

episodes and click turn on automatic downloads

1:16:36

so the pod keeps showing up in

1:16:38

your feed. This way you

1:16:41

will not miss out on any new

1:16:43

episodes. They will appear right in your

1:16:45

feed every single Wednesday and now every

1:16:47

other Monday, which I am so excited

1:16:49

about, we are now adding in if

1:16:51

you missed it, chattier, more advice episodes,

1:16:53

more solos, things like that on Mondays,

1:16:55

every other Monday and then we will

1:16:57

have our experts, our doctors,

1:16:59

all of that will still be

1:17:01

every single Wednesday. And

1:17:03

you do not want to miss out because

1:17:05

we have some very exciting ones coming up

1:17:07

including an episode about why you don't need

1:17:09

to find passion and purpose at

1:17:12

work and another that's breaking down

1:17:14

what a narcissist really is and

1:17:16

how to heal from relationships with

1:17:18

them. Okay, I love you

1:17:20

and I will see you next Wednesday for

1:17:22

the next episode of the Liz Moody podcast.

1:17:32

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