0:01

Hello friends and welcome back to the

0:03

Liz Moody podcast. I'm your host Liz

0:05

Moody and I'm a bestselling author and

0:07

long-time journalist. This podcast is all about

0:09

helping you live your healthiest, happiest life,

0:11

whether we're identifying invisible labor and evening

0:14

the playing field, learning how to overcome

0:16

our fears of death to live life

0:18

to the fullest, or getting

0:20

tips on how to have more fun.

0:22

Because spoiler alert, there are hidden health

0:24

benefits. And yes, those are

0:26

all real episodes and they are linked in

0:29

the show notes if you want to listen.

0:31

I flew to Nashville recently and I

0:33

got to sit down with the lovely

0:35

Hannah Brown for a super raw, vulnerable

0:37

interview. If you are

0:39

a fan of Hannah's from The Bachelorette or

0:41

from winning Dancing with the Stars, you're going

0:44

to get to see her in a whole

0:46

different light. And if you didn't

0:48

watch those, you're going to get to know someone that

0:50

you are going to be obsessed with. Hannah

0:53

is so raw and real and

0:55

vulnerable about her journey. And it

0:58

has been quite a journey. We

1:00

unpack a lot of trauma in

1:02

this episode and she is so

1:04

devoted to not only figuring out

1:07

her own path, but helping other

1:09

people along the way. I

1:11

find it incredibly inspiring. A bit

1:14

more on Hannah, she is the author

1:16

of the New York Times bestselling book,

1:18

God Bless This Mess, and she was

1:20

on Special Forces World's Toughest Test, where

1:22

she was one of only two contestants

1:24

to last all 10 days and the

1:27

only non-athlete left standing. She

1:30

also hosts the beautiful podcast Better Tomorrow,

1:32

where she interviews celebrities, mental health experts,

1:34

anyone who can help us have a

1:37

better tomorrow than we had today. She

1:39

actually interviewed me for her show and

1:41

I opened up about parts of my

1:43

story I haven't shared anywhere else. So

1:46

thank you to Hannah for creating a

1:48

safe space for that and definitely go

1:50

and listen to that episode when you're

1:52

done with this one. Here,

1:55

Hannah and I get into her narcolepsy and

1:57

the sleep tools that she's developed as a

1:59

result. the traumatic experience Hannah

2:01

went through as a kid and how

2:04

she copes, how trauma impacts how we

2:06

show up in relationships and how to

2:08

move through that, how to date when

2:10

you're still finding your own self-love and

2:13

acceptance, who she would have

2:15

picked if she'd been the Bachelorette now, what it's

2:18

like filming a reality show while

2:20

struggling with anxiety, how

2:22

the media jumped on her Bachelorette sex

2:24

scandal, I'm putting this very much in

2:26

quotes, and the ways that

2:28

it still affects her today. This was really

2:31

a surprising and interesting part of the conversation

2:33

for me. Also my mind was blown when

2:35

I realized what had really happened there. I

2:37

feel like it was so

2:39

misconstrued in the media so it was

2:41

nice to get to talk to Hannah

2:44

about all of that. Exactly

2:46

how you can help a partner

2:48

who struggles with anxiety, her tools

2:51

for managing extreme stress and

2:53

mental health struggles, and so

2:55

much more. As always

2:57

we would both love to hear your thoughts

3:00

as you're listening so definitely screenshot and tag

3:02

us on Instagram. I am at Liz Moody

3:04

and Hannah is at Hannah Brown. Hannah was

3:06

so open and real and hearing

3:09

her story will make so many

3:11

people feel less alone so let

3:13

us know if it resonates with

3:15

you and definitely share it with

3:17

anyone you think needs to hear

3:19

it. Okay let's get

3:22

into it with the lovely Hannah Brown.

3:25

Let's just start with narcolepsy. You said you have a

3:27

lot of sleep

3:38

tools because you have narcolepsy.

3:41

What are your sleep tools? Well

3:43

first getting diagnosed with narcolepsy

3:45

was actually from me being

3:47

on some of these more like extreme shows.

3:49

I noticed that I was just way sleepier

3:51

than other people. First started when I

3:54

was Miss USA. I

3:56

was in the South Alabama and I just

3:59

noticed I could fall asleep. anywhere. So I didn't

4:01

even need sleep tools. There could be a

4:03

train, literally a train, going

4:06

right across the street and I'm like sleeping

4:08

to it or it would be in a

4:10

party, fall asleep in rehearsals. If I sat

4:12

down, like falling asleep and I was like,

4:14

that's weird, but something

4:16

that people don't know about narcolepsy is it sometimes

4:18

gets later diagnosed because you

4:20

just think that's just how everybody is. And

4:22

like, there's something wrong with you. Like, you're

4:25

lazy. That's how I always thought. I

4:27

was like, I'm lazy. And my parents

4:30

kind of said the same thing too.

4:32

They were like, come on,

4:34

Hannah, like you can do it. But

4:36

stop being lazy. Like, why are you always taking time to

4:38

sleep? And so I noticed

4:41

that two week period at Michigan,

4:43

I'm like, okay, something's up.

4:45

I can't hang with other people. And then a few

4:47

months later, I did The Bachelor. And there

4:50

was a girl that was on the show with me

4:53

who did have narcolepsy. Her name's

4:55

Katie. And we came to friends and she was

4:57

like, hey, I think you should just like go

4:59

see a sleep doctor because

5:01

you could just fall asleep. Like we're in a

5:03

rose ceremony and you're asleep. Like at least they

5:05

didn't show me like doing that too much. So

5:08

the first thing was I went into the sleep

5:10

study. They're like, didn't he make me finish it?

5:12

Because I was going into REM sleep within 30

5:14

seconds of every

5:16

nap or sleep cycle that we

5:19

did. And then the first

5:22

remedy for it was being

5:24

put on Adderall, which, well,

5:28

you have ADHD too.

5:30

And that had been

5:32

diagnosed. But also

5:35

anxiety. So Adderall is not the best with

5:37

anxiety. And so that was the first

5:39

way I tried to just like manage it. That wasn't

5:41

actually, no tools was just

5:43

trying to treat it to survive, to

5:45

be The Bachelorette, basically, because

5:47

you don't sleep at all. So it's like,

5:50

how can I stay awake? So it wasn't a

5:52

sleeping tool. It was just like, I just

5:54

need to stay awake and we're not

5:56

really fixing anything. And with is

6:00

no cure. It is just treatment. I wouldn't

6:02

say that's the first treatment you should have.

6:05

It wasn't until I started working on

6:07

my actual mental health and

6:10

being treated for the

6:12

anxiety, for the depression,

6:14

for all those things

6:16

more holistically and then also like just

6:18

having a team around me to support me that

6:20

I worked with an actual sleep doctor. And

6:23

that was when we made sure that we had

6:25

all those tools. So that was, I mean,

6:28

pitch black. It is dark

6:30

in my room. When I go in my room, I don't just hang

6:32

out in my room. You have to

6:34

make sure that your bed becomes the place where

6:36

you do the, he said like sex or sleep.

6:38

That is what happens

6:40

there. And if I'm not

6:42

tired, then I get up and I go on the couch.

6:44

So that's like the first thing I'm just making my brain

6:47

know that here is where I sleep. And

6:49

then I always have a sleep

6:52

mask, even though I get

6:54

completely dark, blackout curtains, all

6:56

the things and earplugs,

6:59

sound machine. I'm trying

7:01

to get into the mouth tape. How's that

7:03

going? If I could conquer some

7:05

of my anxiety a little bit more, I think

7:08

that's the only thing it is. So I'm like, what

7:11

if somebody comes and gets me? What

7:13

if somebody gets me and I can't

7:15

scream? When I have it on, that's

7:17

immediately where I go. But

7:19

I've been trying to like slowly work

7:22

on that. Do you do like

7:24

a nighttime routine situation? My

7:27

routine has been off for the past few

7:30

months, but normally it's definitely

7:32

like how

7:34

I said everything happens outside of the

7:36

room. So I'll usually watch a little

7:40

bit of TV. That's one of the last

7:42

things we'll do. And then we'll

7:44

drink like some type of calm tea

7:47

and then go in the room. And

7:49

then I try to read, even if it's

7:51

only like two pages, I'm like, I'm going

7:53

to read two pages and fall asleep. That just

7:55

helps me get into that routine.

7:58

But I also make sure that whatever

8:01

I'm reading is not something like

8:03

super heavy because I love a good

8:05

self-help with figuring out all your trauma book.

8:08

That is not what I tried to read before.

8:10

So it's usually something light fiction to just

8:13

try to get me into that state and I

8:15

usually will fall asleep pretty quickly. Okay.

8:17

I have a question because you said that

8:19

sleeping is hard on The Bachelor of the

8:22

Bachelorette, all these shows. I

8:24

know for my anxiety, what I veer towards

8:26

is wanting to control every part of my

8:28

situation. So if I'm booking a hotel room,

8:30

I'm telling them I don't want to be

8:32

near the elevators, I want to not be

8:34

facing the street. I try to control everything

8:36

that I can control because it helps

8:38

assuage my sense of anxiety because it gives me

8:40

that false or real sense of control. How

8:43

did your anxiety deal with these

8:45

situations, these shows that you've done

8:47

where you're completely

8:50

out of control of your time,

8:52

your sleeping arrangements, what you're eating,

8:54

all these things? It's weird. I

8:56

feel like that's one of my best. Even though I

8:58

have pretty extreme anxiety sometimes,

9:00

but what I've realized through some

9:02

of these pretty extreme experiences is

9:05

I think

9:07

my body still kind of

9:10

thrives better in chaos, even though it doesn't

9:12

actually. But

9:15

the nuances of real life

9:18

cause me more anxiety than something when I know

9:20

it's out of my control. There's

9:22

something freeing about

9:24

I have no

9:27

control in this and that's where I

9:29

really zone in and focus. I

9:32

don't know if that even makes sense, but it's like survival.

9:34

I go into like a fight or

9:36

flight and I

9:39

just zone in on how

9:41

do I survive this and

9:43

those little things don't

9:45

really matter anymore where in real life I've

9:49

realized that I'm safe. I realize

9:51

that I have options that stresses

9:53

me out and causes me more anxiety.

9:56

And it was really hard to even come to terms

9:58

with that when I really noticed. was

10:00

this last kind of experience I did when I was

10:02

on Special Forces, which was 10 days

10:04

of Special Forces training. And

10:07

it was really intense. I hate even

10:09

calling it a show, like a real

10:11

like social experiment. And everybody

10:14

was like, I can't imagine doing this

10:16

for another day longer. And I got to the point where I'm like,

10:19

Oh, this is my life now I could do this. And

10:22

why was that my thought? How did

10:24

I get to that point of like,

10:26

this felt safer and

10:28

easier than sometimes regular life does.

10:30

That's a hard thing to admit

10:32

to yourself. But I

10:35

think my life now for the

10:37

first time, but there's

10:40

some safety there that wasn't always there

10:43

maybe in my relationships and just

10:45

paving my own way that dysregulates

10:49

by nervous system, where

10:51

the chaos and not feeling

10:53

like I have the control

10:57

feels more normal. It's

10:59

so interesting because you had

11:01

this really traumatic experience as a child

11:04

with your aunt and your cousin, two

11:06

cousins or one, two cousins, two cousins.

11:09

And I had a really traumatic experience as a

11:11

childhood not the same as that. But my mom

11:13

was essentially in an accident was in a coma

11:15

for a really long time. And my parents got

11:17

divorced as a result of it. And it was

11:19

just this really traumatic thing when

11:21

I was a kid. And I feel

11:23

like that disrupted my

11:25

sense of safety and my sense

11:28

of adults ability to keep me

11:30

safe. But I had almost

11:32

it seems like an opposite reaction to that

11:34

where my response is to want

11:36

to control everything and yours is to want to

11:38

see control or do you connect that to what

11:40

happened in your childhood at all? Oh, that kind

11:42

of like gave me like a full body chill

11:44

like, Oh, I think

11:47

because what happened

11:50

was horrible

11:52

is something out of the scary

11:56

criminal minds type thing to my

11:58

family. that I

12:01

remember always just being like, okay, if

12:04

this already happened to me once, something bad can't happen

12:06

to me again, right? Like, but

12:08

feeling like I had no control and knowing it

12:10

was kind of like random.

12:13

That's a freak thing. I feel like I'm having

12:15

like a little therapy moment right now, so I

12:17

don't know how to fully get into it. But yeah,

12:20

I do think it's probably connected to like, that

12:24

was so out of control. I'll always think about if

12:26

that was me, like if that would have been me

12:28

in that situation, because my cousins were the same age

12:30

as me and my brother and my aunt was the

12:33

same age as my mom. And

12:35

so people listen to crime shows it's like the number

12:37

one podcast. People listen to it because they try to

12:39

like figure out what they would have done differently or

12:41

what could have been, oh, well, this

12:43

is where they messed up. So like, I lived

12:45

that kind of. And I remember my mom talking

12:47

about it and like, oh, she wouldn't have done

12:49

this or if this wouldn't happen. And if Robin,

12:51

my cousin that was my age, wouldn't have gone.

12:53

And so I think I would like live that.

12:55

And I'm like, okay, if I'm in this

12:58

type of situation, how do you survive? So

13:01

it's out of control, how do you survive? How do you

13:03

make it through? I guess how that

13:06

connects with being on some of these shows

13:08

where it's like, you're in the situation, how

13:10

do you survive? And that's how

13:13

I lived my life. One of the

13:15

earliest thoughts and memories I have is

13:17

of that whole

13:19

experience. And so sitting

13:21

here right now connecting the dots, I'm like,

13:24

yeah, I guess that's where that comes from. It's

13:26

just not controlling it. It's just like, okay, now

13:29

we're here. How

13:31

do we get out or

13:33

live or thrive in

13:35

some way with the

13:37

shit we've been given? Do you

13:39

mind saying briefly what happened? Yeah,

13:42

and gosh, if you would have asked me

13:45

five years ago, I probably couldn't

13:47

tell the story because it makes people

13:49

uncomfortable. And knowing that you're gonna make

13:51

somebody uncomfortable telling a story is hard, but

13:54

it's part of what made me who I am,

13:56

but yeah. And

14:02

my uncle had two kids that were the same age

14:04

as me and my brother, so like seven and five,

14:07

I think. I was there a

14:10

few months older and they

14:13

were building a house and when they built

14:15

their house one of the men

14:17

that was working at the house was like

14:19

in jail, but like he got to, I don't know

14:21

what that's called, like a work program. Work program. And

14:24

they became like good friends with him. He even

14:26

got to live on their property. They had a

14:28

trailer to finish the project and knew

14:30

him well. And he was in

14:32

jail for a nonviolent crime. And

14:36

then he went back to

14:38

where he was from. I

14:41

think it was like marijuana and maybe it

14:43

was on some other drugs and wanted money.

14:46

He had money, him and his

14:48

girlfriend, and he remembered their

14:50

house and he was actually going to go somewhere

14:52

else, somebody else's house to rob them. So their home

14:54

and then to like their business, but he

14:56

didn't go. And so he came to their house. He knocked on the

14:58

door. She answered it,

15:00

went to make some tea. She had Crohn's disease,

15:03

went to the bathroom, saw him in her purse

15:05

and he wasn't there, but

15:09

like brutally murdered my

15:11

aunt. And

15:14

then my cousin came downstairs. That was my

15:16

age. And then he brutally murdered

15:18

her. And then

15:21

Trent, who was my brother's age, they told him

15:23

to go hide. It was

15:25

all just madness. And he still went up

15:27

and found him and brutally

15:30

murdered him. And my uncle came home at lunch and

15:32

found them all. And I'll

15:34

never forget the day because it was my

15:36

dance recital. Isn't it

15:38

also the day you got engaged on The

15:40

Bachelors? Yes. That is

15:42

wildly. Not that, like that date. No,

15:45

but that it was the exact date. Yeah.

15:47

And I remember my dad wasn't going to be

15:50

at my dance recital. I remember my mom getting

15:52

me ready and knowing there was something wrong, that

15:54

something had happened when they found

15:56

out, but being distraught

15:58

because my dad's left and wasn't

16:00

going to be at my dance recital. And

16:03

it's just so weird, like as a kid, like you can

16:05

pick up on something's going on. And

16:08

then the next day they dropped

16:10

me off at one of my friend's house because

16:12

things were going on and then on Sunday, which

16:14

was actually Mother's Day, my mom

16:17

brought me both, me and my brother into his

16:19

room and told me that

16:22

they were our angels in heaven now.

16:24

And just like crying, but still

16:26

not fully understanding. And then also

16:29

just my dad was

16:32

so angry and so that was his

16:34

baby sister and it just completely erects

16:37

our family. The guy that murdered

16:39

them is still on death row.

16:41

And even that's just crazy.

16:43

Yeah, it like ruined our family and was

16:45

not really talked about because it just broke

16:49

everyone. I honestly blocked it out for

16:51

years. I would hear a song that was

16:53

played at their funeral and that would like

16:55

remind me like, Oh my gosh, what's happened?

16:57

This was probably like middle school, like elementary

17:00

school to like high school.

17:02

I had those moments. And then there

17:04

were times where I would try to talk about it and

17:06

then just realize like, Oh, it wasn't except like received.

17:09

And I'm like, Oh, well I should probably not talk

17:11

about this. And it wasn't until writing my book that

17:13

I felt like, Oh, I gotta talk about

17:15

this. Working with my therapist was the

17:17

first time that I actually talked

17:19

to my parents and really said how

17:22

much it hurt me and how

17:25

hard it was to be able to

17:28

try to comprehend that but feel like I

17:30

didn't have anybody that I

17:33

could really talk to. But then also having compassion

17:35

for how do you tell a six year old

17:39

that somebody came into

17:41

your aunt and cousin's

17:43

house and brutally murdered them on a

17:46

random, it was a Friday. They were at

17:48

home from school because it

17:50

was a weather day. Like so

17:54

many factors can even like fathom

17:56

all that happening. So

17:58

yeah, it definitely affects me. And

18:00

probably still something I know I need to

18:02

keep diving deeper into of how much that

18:05

affected how I view

18:08

life in fear, just fear of

18:11

life itself, I think. And I've been reading a

18:13

lot about anxiety and there's a lot of times

18:15

children will be scared of their parents dying. I

18:17

was scared of my parents dying, but like I

18:19

had like valid reason, you know,

18:21

and that was harder in my first experience

18:24

with death, on a dog

18:26

dying. Right. So you talk about it and

18:28

your family now. So actually my book,

18:30

I haven't really talked about this, but it

18:34

made my uncle not

18:36

talk to my dad anymore

18:39

and my family and like said some

18:41

pretty upsetting things about

18:43

me talking about it because he didn't want to

18:46

talk about it. He didn't want people to know.

18:48

And my parents really stood up for me in

18:50

that of like, it's still my story and it's

18:52

part of what has made me

18:56

who I am and how I operate in the world.

18:58

And I feel like this is

19:00

the reason that some of the people in my family

19:02

are where they are is because those feelings and

19:05

this conversation of something that like deeply impacted

19:07

us is still like one of

19:09

those things, like how dare you bring up their

19:11

name or talk about them. So

19:14

yes, but it's still something

19:16

that it's

19:18

sad and hard to talk about. But I think

19:20

just being able to say like, Hey, today, I

19:22

don't know. I heard that song and it

19:25

really just made me sad today

19:28

or wonder what Robin would be like,

19:30

would we be friends? So yeah,

19:32

we talked about it some, but probably still

19:34

there's more healing to be done in our

19:37

family for sure. And it struck

19:39

me reading your book because you

19:41

said you brought it up on the bachelor and they weren't ready to talk

19:43

about it yet or you'd bring it up with friends and they weren't ready

19:45

to talk about it. It just felt

19:47

so starkly clear how much trauma needs

19:49

to be seen to be processed. Yeah.

19:52

Oh my gosh. I remember people saying like

19:55

on the bachelor would be like, Oh, that's a little, you

19:58

know, we're ABC. We're not

20:00

talking about murder. Real

20:03

murder, you know, we'll do it on the stand.

20:05

We have a show about that. Yeah, but you're

20:07

so right. Like, the more times

20:09

you're told, shh, be quiet,

20:11

it just continues to just embed deeper and

20:14

deeper and deeper. And

20:17

I'll never forget my therapist being like, just

20:19

if you can't talk about it, just write

20:21

it down. And how,

20:23

oh gosh, good that felt to do that. And

20:25

then to be able to have this amazing

20:28

conversation with my parents. And

20:30

probably the most connected I've

20:32

felt with my parents ever in H.E.R.D.

20:36

Because they've experienced too. And I think that's where it

20:38

had to start. Had to

20:40

start with them being able to

20:42

accept and to

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Check it out. Are

24:59

there any things that your therapist

25:01

has said or things that you've done or

25:03

mindset shifts or tools that have been

25:05

really helpful for you developing that sense

25:07

of safety and security for yourself as

25:09

an adult? We're

25:11

still working on safe and unsafe.

25:14

I think honestly,

25:16

I sometimes like putting myself in my,

25:19

not extreme, but I do think safety

25:22

and security kind of freaks me

25:24

out sometimes. And

25:26

we're working on that, but I have

25:28

learned that I get to choose that.

25:31

And even though choosing that sometimes feels

25:33

uncomfortable because it's

25:35

not normal. Like that was not the only

25:37

chaotic traumatic thing that was happening in my

25:39

life as a child. My parents didn't have

25:41

like the best relationship. Are your parents together

25:43

now? They are together, yes. I

25:46

love them and their relationship has

25:48

gotten better, but it was not something

25:51

I would want to mimic.

25:55

In my home relationship. And that's been

25:57

hard to navigate too. And that they're

25:59

together through all. that is also like weird

26:02

and hard but that's a whole

26:04

other thing that I'm still trying to also understand.

26:08

But yeah, I think just realizing

26:11

like a lot of times therapy

26:13

we were talking about is sometimes that like

26:15

safety I have

26:17

to choose for myself to choose something

26:20

different and that's going to

26:22

feel uncomfortable for a while. But if

26:25

I just keep at it, that is what I

26:27

truly desire, that's what I truly want, that's what

26:29

I truly deserve. I don't deserve

26:31

to live in chaos all the time. My

26:34

instincts are to choose that but

26:37

realizing that I have another option. It's

26:39

also so interesting because sometimes you thrusting

26:42

yourself into chaos has paid

26:44

off. That's what's really hard. Like

26:46

you went on The Bachelor which you didn't even apply

26:48

for and then you went on The Bachelorette and then

26:50

the special forces thing it actually seems like it was

26:52

transformative for you in a lot of really positive ways.

26:55

So then it's like is your brain like wait, no,

26:57

sometimes it's good but sometimes it's bad. So how am

26:59

I supposed to know? Yeah, it's like, okay,

27:02

these things put yourself outside your comfort zone

27:04

and doing these things have also

27:07

paid off in some ways. It's

27:09

so much not so much like

27:11

the other side of the coin. There's also definitely

27:13

that but I do

27:16

think doing it

27:18

scared is really valuable

27:21

in my life like going after

27:23

things and trying things even though

27:25

I'm terrified reminds

27:27

me how

27:30

strong and resilient and how much

27:32

like there's

27:35

a reason that I've gotten to where I am

27:37

today and it's because of putting myself in those

27:39

situations and being able to prevail. So how can

27:41

I do that in a way that's a little

27:43

bit more safe if that makes sense.

27:45

So like one thing I've said which I have

27:48

as much I'm still trying to bring this out after the special forces

27:50

one goal I really want to do is like try

27:52

to like climb like Mount Kilimanjaro

27:54

or something like that

27:57

is wild and it's definitely

27:59

a big goal. and task, but

28:03

why am I doing it too? Putting

28:05

myself in these uncomfortable situations is

28:07

important for me to keep doing and having a

28:09

little bit about fear put in

28:11

there is nice. It accelerates me. I

28:14

can get stuck really easily in my anxiety.

28:16

So having something that's pushing

28:19

me out the window, like pushing me out

28:21

the door, like I need that little jolt of you

28:24

have to go and you have to

28:26

do something to survive that

28:28

like helps, I

28:30

don't know, like kicks everything back into

28:32

gear sometimes. So like making sure that

28:34

that is a part of my

28:36

life in some way, but in a little bit

28:39

more secured

28:41

way that I can control. Some of the

28:43

things I've done, I've given

28:46

away my control so much. So

28:49

learning to get that back has

28:51

been a journey. How

28:54

has that impacted your relationships?

28:56

You're in this secure, stable

28:59

relationship now. Is there

29:01

a part of you that like wants

29:03

to run from that? Yes. And we talked

29:05

about that a lot. And I'm pretty open about that

29:08

because I don't think I'm alone

29:11

in that and people don't talk

29:14

about it enough. I think

29:16

when your pattern

29:20

is chaos and

29:24

pining over people like I

29:28

saw people who were

29:30

really hard for me to like convince or

29:32

see the value in me that I was

29:35

lovable were like, oh, that means

29:37

they're worth it more. And

29:39

so the harder it is, the better

29:41

it's going to be. And

29:44

there was chemistry in that. There

29:47

was this fire in that, but

29:49

rarely ever safety or sense of

29:52

real worthiness that came from myself.

29:54

It came from somebody else being

29:56

like, okay, I'll be with

29:58

you now. But I've noticed that even

30:00

in those hard relationships that I had

30:02

of maybe I started very unhealthy, when

30:06

if they did start to be more stable, I was

30:08

like, oh, I don't want that anymore. Like, that

30:11

has been my pattern. And this relationship,

30:13

the first relationship that started out, well,

30:17

I didn't start out healthy. And he's

30:19

definitely grown. But he

30:23

showed me very upfront

30:26

that he chose me and

30:29

would be somebody who

30:32

really valued what I said, what

30:34

I did, who I was. And

30:36

I didn't have to show

30:38

up with a mask. And that felt really vulnerable.

30:40

And I pride myself on being pretty

30:42

vulnerable. But there's like a point where I'm like, oh,

30:46

but not that vulnerable. Not that.

30:49

And it has been a challenge

30:51

in that way to be able

30:53

to fully accept someone who fully

30:55

accepts me. Because there's

30:57

almost if we are still struggling with that

31:00

self love and self acceptance, and somebody else

31:02

loves and accepts us, then we're like, well,

31:04

what's wrong with them? Is their judgment impaired?

31:06

Yes. And kind of can have like some

31:08

resentment. I mean, I have said this multiple

31:10

times. I'm like, why do you like me?

31:12

I don't understand. And he's like, well,

31:16

I do. I love you. And don't

31:18

think less. And we had this conversation, he was

31:20

like, do not think less of me because I

31:22

know I'm right. And you're wrong about you. And

31:25

I was like, he's like, isn't

31:27

that true, though? The people that love us

31:30

can sometimes see us clearer than we can

31:32

see ourselves. It's really beautiful.

31:34

But it's hard to sometimes receive,

31:36

especially as someone

31:38

who's like lived my life from like accomplishment

31:40

to accomplishment or being like, Look, I did

31:43

this now. Now I'm lovable. Now I'm lovable.

31:45

Why don't you want to be with me?

31:47

And being able for somebody to see

31:50

me like stripped down and be

31:53

like, Yep, I still choose you like, Yep, I

31:55

want that one. I want this. It's like, still

31:59

really, I'm that struggle with. But

32:01

I choose and I

32:03

think love is something that

32:05

you choose. There's obviously lots

32:08

of factors, but like I am continuing to

32:10

choose to show up for myself

32:13

even though sometimes it feels uncomfortable to

32:15

like fully make

32:17

choices for myself

32:21

and even the self sometimes that I don't see,

32:24

you know. The accomplishment

32:26

thing is interesting because I do that with my

32:28

husband where I'm like, look at the podcast I'm

32:30

going on. Look at the book that I'm writing.

32:32

Like look at my accolades. And he's like, that's

32:34

cool. Like and he's so happy for me for

32:36

all of it. But I'm almost

32:38

trying to be like, see me love me. And he's

32:40

like, that's not why I see you or love you

32:43

at all. But then I'm like, but what? So what

32:45

is it? What's the thing? Yeah,

32:47

it's an interesting thing. I'm curious, actually,

32:49

do you think knowing what you know

32:51

now about yourself and your needs and

32:54

your desires as a person, would you

32:56

pick somebody different if you were the

32:58

bachelorette now? Yeah. Like is there a

33:00

person that comes to mind? I

33:03

don't know. Because I think the whole experience

33:05

would have been different. I would have seen

33:07

everyone through a different lens. So

33:10

it's hard to really

33:12

say that. I think that there would have been

33:14

relationships that would have been easily like, no,

33:18

wouldn't have done that. But also kind

33:22

of that same thing. Like I think there

33:24

wasn't as much control as you think there

33:26

is in that situation of making decisions.

33:30

Yeah, there's a lot of factors. And I think

33:32

maybe at this age, I would have been able

33:34

to even recognize that. I know,

33:37

I wish they had I know they have

33:39

the golden bachelor now. I wish they had

33:41

bachelor for people like in their 30s who've

33:43

like lived some life. But it wouldn't work.

33:45

Yeah. But those are the people like

33:47

when I watched the bachelor and I haven't watched

33:49

it in a really long time. I did watch

33:51

your season, but I'm not invested because I'm like people

33:53

in their early 20s shouldn't be getting married. Like it was

33:55

hard for me to get invested because even if they do

33:58

get married, it's not gonna work out because they're Definitely

34:00

not this way. Yeah, I mean, I was the youngest

34:02

bachelor and I remember because- How old were you? That's

34:05

like, if my sister came to me and she was

34:07

like, I'm 24, I found my husband, I'm like, no,

34:09

you didn't. Like, I think it

34:11

was confusing for me because a lot of

34:14

my girlfriends and I was in a long-term

34:16

relationship in college and like thought that I

34:18

was gonna be with that person. I

34:20

had two long-term relationships that like, oh, like

34:22

this could be it. And a lot of

34:24

my friends did get married right after college

34:27

and they do have great relationships. I mean, they've

34:29

had to work at their relationship.

34:31

I met my husband, my now husband, my

34:33

only husband. I met my husband when I

34:35

was 21. So I

34:37

do believe you can meet somebody young, but did I

34:40

know that we could get married when I was 24?

34:42

No, because we changed and evolved so

34:44

much throughout our entire 20s. We didn't

34:47

get married until we were 30, which

34:49

I was really annoyed about at the time and I'd get drunk and

34:51

be like, why won't you propose? But

34:54

I think you change and evolve and grow so much.

34:56

And if you're really lucky and you work really hard

34:58

at it, you change and evolve and grow together, but

35:02

it's also very, very easy to change and

35:04

evolve and grow apart. Yes, and so

35:06

I think at that time though, I'm

35:09

like, oh, I can do this. I feel like

35:11

I'm ready for that. So I would

35:13

get like annoyed and be like, oh, she's

35:16

so young to be the bachelor because all

35:18

around me, nobody else

35:20

was saying that because everybody else was, my

35:23

mom got married at 24. Most people that I

35:25

knew around me got married early 20s. So

35:28

I thought, for sure I'm

35:30

ready for this. And not only

35:32

was I not ready, but I was

35:34

not ready to do that so

35:36

publicly. And I think I only kissed like

35:39

three guys, maybe four guys before

35:41

I was even on the show. Like I'd

35:43

only had long-term relationships. To go

35:45

from that and then one night, one

35:48

week kissing like 12 guys, I think that also

35:50

like did something weird with my identity. There

35:53

was so much that happened that

35:56

as a young adult, I didn't

35:59

fall. understand and

36:02

I mean I'm still trying to process

36:06

all that that

36:08

did to shape me in good and bad

36:10

ways. I also think it's wild

36:12

that you had slept with two guys and

36:15

then you go on The Bachelor and because

36:17

of the whole situation with Luke and you

36:19

were like I don't know I think

36:21

you were like I had sex and Jesus still loves

36:23

me or something like that and like you became this

36:26

like icon of sex positivity. That was hard. I remember

36:28

at that time reading all like the Us Weeklies and

36:30

people being like yeah did you see because it was

36:32

something that like that had never happened on The Bachelor

36:34

and then I read your book and I was like

36:36

wait she slept with two guys before and then she

36:39

was being put on that pedestal. It's

36:41

so interesting to be put on this pedestal

36:43

by some people as a kind of sex

36:45

positivity and then also ripped apart by other

36:48

people. Like I literally remember hearing Hannah Brown

36:50

the sex positive bachelorette and there was like

36:52

so much shame in that but I think Luke

36:55

was almost like a symbol

36:57

of that shame like coming

37:00

up and telling me how

37:02

I was wrong and I just freaked

37:05

out and you know

37:07

good and bad like I see a lot of

37:10

good of me like taking that stance for myself

37:12

but then also what was bad was actually people

37:14

like flaming

37:16

that I was something that I wasn't really sure not

37:19

that it was bad to be that but

37:21

I didn't really know where I stood of

37:23

how do I feel after all this shit

37:25

has just happened to my life and like

37:27

mix it up so much. Do

37:29

I still kind of have that shame? Yeah

37:31

I do and I didn't

37:33

end up with either one of these guys and

37:36

I think I have a

37:38

little shame from that as well because

37:40

I don't know how I really feel and

37:43

not that I think I did anything not

37:46

that I'm horrible or wrong or people

37:49

choosing that think it's great

37:51

or wrong or even people that are saying like oh

37:53

I don't know if that's how I would choose to

37:55

do the whole situation like you know

37:57

what I think I might have done it

37:59

differently. too. But that was

38:01

really, really hard for me. And just

38:04

the way that it's continued

38:07

to affect even

38:09

how I view myself as a sexual being

38:12

too, like that really did affect me because

38:15

good or bad, wrong or right.

38:18

I didn't really fit either side of what

38:20

people were saying about me. So then

38:23

I think because I've

38:25

let go of so much control and was

38:28

just letting people say what I was and

38:30

wasn't, it didn't come to a

38:32

head until maybe two years ago of me being

38:34

like, I don't really know who I am. I

38:36

don't know. I don't think I fit any of

38:38

these things that people are saying about me, but

38:41

I don't even know how to define myself anymore.

38:45

And so that has been

38:48

my dark night of the soul that I've kind of

38:50

been going through of really being able to

38:52

first admit and

38:55

acknowledge that, and

38:57

then trying to get to know

38:59

myself without all the labels

39:01

or accomplishments and things

39:03

that I'm doing like stripped away. And even

39:05

as I continue to do things that are

39:07

really cool and maybe accomplishment that doesn't really

39:10

define me or like, why am I doing

39:12

these things and actively having to

39:14

be like, okay, this is part of who

39:16

I am or how much attachment am I

39:18

having on to these things that I'm doing?

39:20

It really spiraled into a whole big thing in

39:23

my life. It did seem to be

39:25

a through line when I was diving

39:29

deep into you for this podcast, this

39:31

question of how do I figure out

39:33

my identity when from my earliest waking

39:35

memories, everybody is telling me what my

39:37

identity is. What does

39:39

that look like for you? What is the

39:41

work around figuring out who you actually are

39:43

and who you want to be look like?

39:46

Yeah. I mean, I'm going to therapy today

39:48

and sometimes I just go in and I

39:52

think even acknowledging that,

39:57

so like in my book, I talk about like, I always smiled. I

40:00

was always smiley happy. So then I was

40:02

just the happy Hannah, like people they go,

40:04

she's the happiest. I was actually pretty sad

40:06

as a child, but that

40:09

also shuts down

40:11

because I'm supposed to be happy. The

40:14

person that brings the

40:16

joy brings the energy and kind of

40:20

allowing myself for the first time

40:22

that like, that's not fully

40:24

who I always am. I wish I was always that

40:26

way, but I am not. Sometimes I

40:28

go into therapy and I'm like, I'm

40:32

sad. I don't even know how to pray and

40:34

just learning and accepting

40:38

all the little parts of me that

40:41

for so long didn't fit with

40:44

what others

40:46

claimed and what I claimed for me to be. So

40:49

that's been really uncomfortable. I'll

40:52

start doing a lot of like

40:54

EMDR therapy. It's been very tough.

40:56

If you can imagine getting in

40:58

there and allowing myself to honestly

41:00

just start crying again, like allow

41:02

myself to grieve the

41:04

grieving of all this stuff. It

41:06

feels selfish or

41:08

like ungrateful

41:11

to grieve when that was given

41:13

so much. Also in

41:15

some of these situations. And

41:18

I think even with the last session

41:21

we were talking, she's like, you can also be

41:23

mad. You can also be mad for the things that

41:25

were taken away. And she's

41:27

like, I know you're going to say, but I had so much.

41:29

She's like, that's true, but we don't have to say that in

41:31

here. We can grieve the

41:34

parts that were taken away or the things that were

41:36

said about you that were not true instead

41:39

of just being quiet and letting, you

41:41

know, social media and things make it really hard. It's like,

41:43

oh, well, I'm just going to let people can think whatever

41:45

they want of me. And she's like, true,

41:47

but you can also say that in

41:49

here that that's f'd up.

41:52

Well, and suffering isn't comparative. I did that. And

41:54

I'm sure that you have this experience with your

41:57

aunt and your cousins is, but like, I was

41:59

like. Yes, my life

42:01

was impacted by this, but my mom's was

42:03

impacted in so much more of a greater

42:05

way. And so it's not fair

42:07

for me to feel bad. Like she's the one who

42:09

should get to feel bad, but suffering isn't comparative. Yeah.

42:12

Social media has made that harder

42:14

though sometimes because it's constantly, you

42:16

know, I could say one thing on trying to be

42:18

vulnerable on social media about like, man, I'm having

42:21

a hard day. And it's like, you're

42:23

having a hard day. Think about the people here. I

42:26

think that social media, I think it's very hard

42:28

to find nuance or evidence. Empathy in the amount

42:30

of time that we're allowed to have on social

42:32

media, like these 15 to 60

42:34

second snippets, it's why I strongly prefer

42:37

real conversations. And I think we're all

42:39

craving complexity of emotion in a

42:41

way that social media just by nature of

42:43

the format does not allow for. Yes.

42:46

I mean, gosh, my relationship with social media has been

42:48

so I thought I was getting a little bit better

42:50

with it. And now I'm starting to feel it again.

42:52

It's so heavy. It just feels like this circle up.

42:55

I'm trying to build community on there and like you

42:58

can, but there's only so much you can

43:01

do without stripping away

43:03

everything that's in actual real

43:07

for me. Like I have ADHD,

43:09

social media can start to become

43:11

not only

43:14

like an escape, but become the

43:17

thing that like I have focus on when I need

43:19

to be here, I need to be present, need to be content. Like

43:21

how do you do all that?

43:23

I think everyone's trying to find the balance of

43:25

that, but especially when it comes to allowing yourself

43:29

to be a full person and find an

43:31

identity, social media is

43:33

not the place that's going to help you

43:35

really form that. And while

43:37

you're searching, sometimes it can really be hard.

43:42

Like I feel like I'll be doing so good and then I'll

43:44

go on social media and be like, oh, you just

43:46

getting hit a little bit, but continuing to try to

43:48

like say the path and allow

43:51

myself to really keep

43:54

digging deeper is what we're

43:56

trying to do right now. And just my processing

43:59

and healing. journey. Meal

44:03

prepping is one of the biggest life hacks.

44:05

There is nothing more anxiety reducing than taking

44:07

a daily concern and turning it into something

44:09

you think about every few days or even

44:11

once a week. And if you

44:13

think meal prepping is hard, I feel you,

44:16

I'm there with you. And this is going

44:18

to change your meal prep game. The caraway,

44:20

bakeware and storage containers. The storage

44:22

containers are amazing. They're all microwave oven

44:24

and freezer safe. So you can do

44:26

what I do and store your food

44:28

in them in the freezer in individual

44:30

portion sizes. The small one is perfect

44:32

for one person. And then you transfer

44:34

that directly to the oven or microwave,

44:36

sandglass lid to reheat it, kind of

44:38

like a way healthier freezer meal. They're

44:40

also completely non-toxic. So you can feel

44:42

okay about heating them up. If

44:45

you're listening and you are microwaving in

44:47

plastic containers, please, please stop. You are

44:49

transferring harmful chemicals to your food and

44:51

then you are eating those chemicals. There

44:54

are a ton of studies that show

44:56

that at this point. I also

44:58

love the glass lids. You can easily peep

45:00

in and you can see what's in there.

45:02

And these are also stunning. They come in

45:05

gorgeous colors. They look beautiful in your cabinet,

45:07

fridge and freezer. And that is a hack

45:09

unto itself because you will want to use

45:11

these. The bakeware is also

45:13

amazing. It's made of non-toxic materials and

45:16

it's completely non-stick. So you don't need

45:18

to use parchment paper, aluminum foil, any

45:20

of that. It cooks really evenly. I've

45:22

tested it with sheet pan veggies and

45:24

with cookies and the browning has been

45:27

unbelievable. I also love the muffin

45:29

pans because I never have muffin containers around and

45:31

I'm not down for most muffin pans to touch

45:33

the food that I eat. But muffin pans

45:35

are so helpful for meal prep. You can make

45:37

single serving frittatas. You can portion out soup and

45:40

freeze it and then pop it in a big

45:42

storage bag. You can make servings of sauce and

45:44

freeze them. And again, they

45:46

are so cute. I

45:48

would personally start with the baking sheet

45:50

duo and the muffin pan plus the

45:52

food storage container set. They also

45:55

just released a stainless steel pan set, which I

45:57

am very interested in testing. I love cooking with

45:59

stainless steel. steel, it's actually incredibly non-stick if

46:01

you use it properly, so I will test that

46:03

and I will get back to you. All

46:06

Caraway products are made without any

46:08

toxic materials like PFAs, PTFE, PFOA,

46:10

or other chemicals which I always

46:12

look for in anything that's touching

46:14

my food. If you've been

46:16

wanting to try Caraway products, you are in luck. Visit

46:19

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46:22

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46:27

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46:29

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46:31

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46:34

Caraway, non-toxic cookware made modern.

46:38

One of the top questions I get is

46:40

what I use for birth control after making

46:42

the switch from hormonal options. And I will

46:45

not stop singing from the rooftops about my

46:47

absolute love for the Natural Cycles app. It's

46:50

changed my life so much to have

46:52

a completely non-hormonal, non-invasive form of birth

46:54

control which I never thought was possible.

46:56

I've gotten my libido back, my anxiety

46:59

has gone significantly down, and while I'm

47:01

not anti-hormonal birth control by any means,

47:03

I'm just so happy this option exists.

47:06

Natural Cycles is a leading women's health

47:09

company that created the world's first FDA-cleared

47:11

birth control app. The app's

47:13

algorithm uses hormone-driven changes in body temperature

47:15

to let users know when they're fertile

47:17

or not fertile. It's

47:19

93% effective with typical use and 98% effective

47:21

with perfect use. The

47:24

app uses a color-coded system and every day

47:26

based on your temperature you'll get red or

47:28

green days if you're in Natural Cycles birth

47:30

control mode. Red days mean

47:33

you're fertile and you should abstain or use protection.

47:36

Green means that you are good to go at it however

47:38

you would like. I love

47:40

Natural Cycles because it's grounded in research.

47:42

There is a proven connection between body

47:44

temperature and ovulation. Right before

47:46

ovulation, progesterone levels start to rise and

47:49

progesterone actually increases your body temperature. This

47:51

change in body temperature is what the

47:53

app's algorithm looks for to let users

47:55

know when they're fertile or not fertile.

47:58

It's really different than just taking your own

48:00

time. temperature and trafficking. Your temperature is going

48:02

into an algorithm developed by a female physicist,

48:04

Alina, who was on the team that discovered

48:07

the Higgs boson particle, which led to the

48:09

Nobel Prize for physics. And they're doing a

48:11

bunch of crazy science to make the predictions

48:13

way more accurate than what we can do

48:16

at home. We're all different,

48:18

so I think it's important to be aware of

48:20

all of the options out there when it comes

48:22

to something as personal as birth control. I

48:24

have loved using natural cycles as my preferred

48:27

birth control method, so I am thrilled that

48:29

listeners of the Liz Moody podcast can get

48:31

to try it for themselves. You can use

48:33

code Liz at naturalcycles.com to get 15%

48:36

off an annual subscription, plus a

48:38

free thermometer, or go to

48:41

naturalcycles.app slash Liz. Again,

48:43

that is code Liz at naturalcycles.com.

48:46

Natural Cycles is for 18 and over

48:48

and does not protect against STIs. A

48:52

question that I get asked a lot because

48:54

I have anxiety is, how do

48:56

I help my partner deal with my anxiety or

48:59

what do they do to deal with my anxiety

49:01

or anything like that? I'm curious what you guys

49:03

do in your relationship. So

49:06

when we first started dating, not first,

49:09

but you know we've been dating a

49:11

little bit, I started noticing he was

49:13

like reading different books that were titled

49:15

like, 80's Fearing Anxiety. He started

49:17

reading about how to be a good partner for somebody

49:20

like for me and for me I think... Wait,

49:28

did he get any good like tips? Yeah, I

49:31

think basically I had not been

49:33

diagnosed with ADHD when he was reading these books

49:35

about ADHD. So what to do when your partner

49:39

has ADHD and you're like babe? I

49:41

don't know ADHD. Turns out

49:43

it's hard. I will say it's hard for

49:45

him but because he puts in the effort

49:47

not for me but for

49:50

just our relationship, it helps

49:52

and we have really good communication I

49:54

would say for the most part of like,

49:57

hey I'm super anxious right now and he can be like, why are

49:59

you anxious? I really don't know, but I

50:01

know this happened and this is where

50:03

it started. And I know you

50:06

probably didn't mean anything by this, but

50:08

it's created this like sense of

50:12

angst because, and then we talk

50:14

about it. And I'm like, maybe it's because of this

50:17

past thing. He's like, I get it, but it's

50:19

creating that space to be able to talk about

50:21

it. Sometimes he's different than me and

50:24

he needs a second, which is probably good.

50:26

I want to fix it right now. Anxiety.

50:29

Let's fix it now. And

50:32

he'll take a step back and be like, Hey, I

50:34

hear you. I'm going to need a minute and

50:37

we'll come back and talk, but it's all about

50:39

because we've created that safety in our relationship to

50:41

have really vulnerable conversation. And

50:44

look, I probably could still

50:46

work on it. And he has ways that he can

50:49

also work on it as well. Sometimes

50:52

I'm craving connection and

50:56

in doing that, I

50:58

like to share and I'm really honestly sharing

51:00

because I want him to share a little

51:02

bit more. Oh, that's interesting. And

51:04

do you ever say, yes. Yeah. And

51:07

it's like, you know, like this is something that I do

51:09

have a hard time. Like he can listen, but

51:12

it's him actually being vulnerable and sharing too.

51:15

And I can feel it. And so

51:17

I'll try to open an opportunity and

51:19

he shares, hopefully see if he'll share. And

51:21

when he doesn't, it like, then

51:24

it creates this anxiety. And that's been one

51:26

of our things. He's like, yeah, like, you

51:28

know, you've been doing so much work on

51:31

yourself and for our relationship. Like there's still things

51:33

that I need to work on and being able

51:35

to communicate and share with you too. And that

51:37

feels really nice. And I think both

51:40

just doing our part of being able to show

51:42

up, not only just for ourselves, most

51:44

importantly, but for each other too. And

51:47

that means you have to work

51:50

and have uncomfortable conversations. And I think

51:52

it's just like being

51:55

up for, even

51:57

though it may not be what you want to do on

51:59

a Friday night. having that uncomfortable

52:01

conversation of why maybe

52:04

I'm all over the place or

52:06

can't feel connected or my

52:08

mind's somewhere else and my it's like we're

52:10

watching this show but you're

52:12

on your phone and I'm actually just

52:14

staring at the wall it's like okay where's the

52:17

disconnect here and sometimes it's

52:19

not a fun conversation. Have you guys

52:21

done couples therapy? We did

52:23

couple therapy pretty early in our

52:25

relationship because of what we talked about

52:27

earlier like I

52:30

knew we've always gotten along

52:32

great we are very compatible but there

52:34

was always this like kind of internal

52:36

friction and like fear about this relationship

52:39

for me and so

52:41

I was like would you do couples therapy

52:43

with me because I feel like I don't

52:45

know how to explain why this relationship is

52:47

hard for me because it's not a hard

52:49

relationship it's actually really

52:51

easy relationship but that actually

52:54

makes this hard for me. So

52:57

to do that I felt like I needed somebody

52:59

to come in and like help me be able

53:01

to say that in a not

53:03

just like in a gentle way being able

53:05

to describe like why these certain things make

53:08

me anxious or make me

53:10

scared and see how we

53:12

did that for a little while and then kind of

53:14

stopped because our therapist was like I love you

53:16

guys because you actually like can communicate very well

53:18

with each other a lot of the work was

53:20

mean us needing to do our own separate work

53:23

too and I've been doing that and

53:26

he actually last week was like you know

53:28

what I'm finally gonna do like my own

53:30

individual therapy because we are engaged now and

53:33

with that comes excitement but also like fear

53:36

too and I think

53:39

it's important for us to do that and then

53:41

of course we'll probably do some more couples

53:43

therapy. I think it's therapy is great. Therapy

53:45

is great and I think that we've gotten to

53:47

a place on a societal level where we really

53:49

normalize individual therapy but there's still this stigma of

53:51

like if you're in couples therapy something's wrong with

53:54

your relationship and I hate it. My husband and

53:56

I have done couples therapy in the same way

53:58

that I want the tools and my individual

54:00

life, I want the tools

54:02

in my relationship as well. Yeah,

54:05

I mean, I have realized,

54:09

I feel like I have to do my

54:11

individual work to really understand this relationship anxiety

54:13

that I have. And

54:15

that does need to be done first by

54:18

myself. But

54:20

even still, I feel

54:23

like couples

54:25

therapy is kind of just like maintenance. It's

54:28

making sure like getting your oil checked and

54:30

making sure like the fluid in

54:32

your windshield wipers is working like there's

54:35

little things that can turn into big things

54:37

if you don't have

54:39

maintenance and talk about them. And I think therapy

54:42

allows you to do that in a safe way. Sometimes

54:44

I don't know how to fully express myself and I

54:46

try and then I like really botch it. We're

54:49

in therapy. There's somebody else that's like almost like a

54:51

buffer that when I say

54:53

something can ask another question that maybe he

54:55

can't ask in that moment because he's like,

54:58

wait, I'm really confused. But this buffer is

55:00

there that can ask the question that's really

55:02

going to get me to say what I'm

55:04

trying to say. And

55:06

that helped us so much. And yeah, we talked

55:08

to he's going to start his individual therapy, but

55:10

we're like, we should definitely start back all the

55:12

therapies, but doing that together as

55:15

a couple. How does your anxiety show up

55:17

now in your life? It's

55:19

ebbed and flowed a lot recently.

55:22

It shows up a lot as me being

55:24

like pretty stuck. I get

55:26

stuck really easily. Like so

55:29

many things going on, lost in thought,

55:31

can't really finish sentences. I

55:34

always say like it feels like my brain kind of feels

55:36

like I'm on like a hamster wheel, but

55:39

things are just like flying off of it and I'm

55:41

trying to grab them. But like also trying to keep

55:43

my heart rate at the same speed

55:46

and trying to sing at the same time. There's

55:49

a lot going on and really there's

55:51

no way for me to do it. I will Google everything.

55:53

That's how it shows up a lot. Like

55:56

Google is this headache a brain

55:58

tumor? Yeah. Or like. a lot

56:00

of it's like relationship stuff. So say

56:02

I'm like, I'm so that and I'm like, signs

56:06

that you're ready to get married or like

56:08

just things like that all the time

56:11

because I sometimes get stuck

56:13

and so anything progressing is

56:17

hard for me because I don't like the state that I'm

56:19

in right now. So things that I'm excited about in the

56:21

future I don't want to show up the way I am

56:23

right now and so

56:25

I'll stress about those things like, oh this is why

56:27

I can't do it and it's like, no I'm just

56:29

really not actually content with where I am right now

56:31

because I feel so at

56:33

disease. And

56:35

also I feel like there's such

56:37

a press component probably right? Like

56:39

you're taught from the youngest age

56:42

that you shouldn't trust the

56:44

world to be safe, that you shouldn't trust what

56:47

you want your body to look and feel like,

56:49

that you shouldn't trust how you would want to

56:51

present yourself in a pageant form. All of

56:54

your work experience has

56:56

been the world telling you how you should

56:58

present yourself not to trust yourself, not to

57:00

trust your own instincts and so I imagine

57:02

that rebuilding that self-trust muscle so that when

57:04

you're saying, this is the person

57:06

I want to marry, this is what I want my

57:09

life to look like, you believe yourself. That would be

57:11

really hard I imagine. And it's

57:13

a lot of deconstructing right now.

57:16

I would say to anybody that it is

57:18

hard to start doing this stuff and sometimes

57:20

it gets a little harder before it gets

57:22

better and I feel like I've gone

57:24

into like even a deeper work

57:27

lately that's brought the cracks to

57:29

the surface and I'm having

57:31

to see where there's still some work to

57:33

be done but I have so much hope

57:35

that it gets better because I've fallen

57:37

and I've gotten back up and felt better and I just

57:39

know that's just kind of like life.

57:42

It's gonna ebb and flow

57:44

and right now my

57:47

anxiety has been a little bit harder

57:49

to manage but

57:51

even the other day we were

57:54

at Thanksgiving at my fiance's

57:56

family's house and they had

57:58

this swing outside of that. full story

58:01

if you're writing the book like I had like

58:03

this traumatic falling up but on the swing and

58:05

we were swinging and I just remember I

58:08

was like will you keep swinging

58:10

me I'm gonna close my eyes

58:12

and just feel this and because

58:15

it kind of took me back to this place of like this

58:18

trauma but I closed my eyes and I'm like

58:21

you're safe now like you can do this just

58:24

like continuing to like practice those

58:26

moments of feeling really vulnerable really

58:28

scared really uncomfortable but

58:30

then reminding myself like you've got

58:33

this you're safe this

58:35

scary and then eventually I felt like on

58:37

the swing I felt my body go like

58:39

at peace when

58:41

it was really freaked out at first so

58:44

continuing to put like push myself and do

58:46

it scared I mean that is like my

58:49

motto is how my anxiety manifests is being

58:51

stuck like there are times that I just

58:53

have to try and do it and do

58:55

the thing that I know will be good

58:58

for me even when I don't really feel

59:00

like it I love that

59:02

story because it's the adult

59:04

you now giving the child you the

59:07

sense of safety and security yeah adults

59:09

weren't able to give the child you

59:11

yeah that wing this

59:13

weekend was so weird I was just like

59:15

I'm gonna swing and then I felt the

59:17

trauma like come up because the way

59:19

that it was like one of those swings were like children

59:22

where it kind of has like a trampoline

59:24

like bungee to it and it's like a

59:26

circle and he has two twin nephews so

59:28

they like play on it but it's on

59:30

this big tree and you pull it

59:32

up I mean you're this far from the ground but

59:35

you're not gonna hit the ground but

59:37

it feels

59:40

like you're going to it's the

59:42

only other time that I've ever felt that I've

59:45

skydived I've done all these things that was the closest

59:47

thing to that like traumatic moment and I was like

59:49

wow this just like brought that up but

59:52

I made myself say I'm the fling and

59:56

it was really cool to feel that sense of

59:59

security in my body that I know

1:00:01

different. I can protect myself. I'm gonna hold

1:00:03

on and I'm

1:00:06

like, oh I've got to continue to make moments

1:00:08

like this in my life. Mm-hmm. Yeah, I've

1:00:10

got shivers. Is there anything

1:00:12

else that you do if you wake up anxious on

1:00:14

any day that helps? Like tools or

1:00:16

practices or mantras or things that you say to

1:00:18

yourself? I think a walk is always so important

1:00:21

though I can tell you all the things that I do

1:00:23

when I like am I okay, this is not working You

1:00:26

know at first it always seems like why the thing

1:00:28

first thing is like oh, I'm gonna scroll and then

1:00:30

I'll be like Nope, Hannah. This is making

1:00:32

you worth get

1:00:35

up and so I'll

1:00:37

usually go walk. I'll try to schedule in

1:00:39

a workout that day and then Writing

1:00:42

so like journaling that's still something

1:00:44

that I'm trying to like Get

1:00:47

better at but sometimes like the other day I

1:00:49

woke up really anxious At least it coincided with a

1:00:51

day that I didn't have much to do which

1:00:53

is great A lot of times I'll like wake up

1:00:55

anxious and it's like yeah, that's fun. That's what you

1:00:58

say You're gonna have to just Tell me if

1:01:00

that helps me though Like sometimes I

1:01:02

feel like when I'm home and I have nothing

1:01:04

to do and I don't have that structure I'm

1:01:06

like, oh, this is nice. But then it actually

1:01:08

makes me get worse all day. Yes. Yeah, but

1:01:10

I just like all right write

1:01:12

down Everything it was

1:01:15

just like a note of dread but

1:01:17

at least got it out and then

1:01:21

on the next page I Wrote

1:01:25

All the good things I was like, okay, I wrote

1:01:28

all the dread but now I'm just gonna

1:01:30

write a few good things About

1:01:32

today and that just might be

1:01:34

that my tea is warm right now That

1:01:37

can be really hard in those moments of dread

1:01:40

the gratitude But how important it is to just

1:01:42

write down a few things that you can think

1:01:44

of in that moment And then it ends up

1:01:46

being a lot more things. So those two things

1:01:48

are Really important movement

1:01:51

and then just writing out something

1:01:54

Even though I want my journaling to be

1:01:56

some type of beautiful

1:02:01

I've figured out why I am this way. That's

1:02:04

not happening as much. Or

1:02:07

being able to find like a metaphor for why this

1:02:09

is. That's not happening as much, but

1:02:11

writing all the bad things and then ending on the

1:02:13

good things does help. And

1:02:16

being able to talk about it. I'm really

1:02:18

thankful to have a partner that I can say,

1:02:20

hey, I'm really anxious

1:02:22

today. And they'll ask why

1:02:24

and support me through that. I'm

1:02:27

really, really thankful for that. I

1:02:29

love that. We like to end on a

1:02:31

homework assignment, something that people can do immediately

1:02:33

after they turn off the podcast. So for

1:02:35

you, I'll let you choose,

1:02:37

or you can do both. Let's do either one

1:02:40

homework assignment for figuring out who you are as

1:02:42

a person on your truest level and

1:02:44

or one homework assignment

1:02:47

for your mental health. Okay.

1:02:50

So what I'm doing for trying to

1:02:52

figure out just like who

1:02:55

I am, how I want to show up in the world

1:02:58

is recognizing those

1:03:01

moments throughout the

1:03:03

day that I

1:03:05

feel my body go a little bit more at

1:03:08

ease or feel like a real smile, like a

1:03:11

gall on my face. Like yesterday, I got

1:03:13

this stupid projector of snowflakes. That's kind of

1:03:15

dumb to go in my house. But

1:03:17

when I set it up this perfect way,

1:03:19

like I was just like smiling and I'm

1:03:21

like, I love creating really

1:03:23

fun things for people to walk by and enjoy. And

1:03:26

that was little, but I like made note of it. So

1:03:29

if you're like in a funk, like I've been

1:03:32

just making little notes of,

1:03:34

okay, I didn't have to try

1:03:36

that hard because I feel like I've tried a lot.

1:03:39

I didn't have to try that hard to feel

1:03:41

good in this little moment and take note

1:03:43

of that because that's pouring you

1:03:45

more to like what brings you that joy and

1:03:47

who you are. It doesn't have to

1:03:49

be anything really big. It can be a snowflake

1:03:51

projector. Okay. But just

1:03:55

take note of that today. I love that

1:03:57

because you hit the identity and the mental health

1:03:59

in one. I'm a good friend, man. That

1:04:01

was wonderful. What an overachiever. But you're

1:04:03

loved and valued regardless of your overachievement.

1:04:06

Thank you. Thank you. This

1:04:09

is awesome. I really appreciate you. I'm excited to

1:04:11

have you on my podcast. Yay.

1:04:15

I love this episode so much.

1:04:17

Hannah is just so open and

1:04:20

honest and raw and introspective after

1:04:22

having been through so much. Definitely

1:04:25

go and listen to our episode of Better Tomorrow,

1:04:27

which I will link in the show notes and

1:04:29

you can find Vice Searching Better Tomorrow wherever you

1:04:31

listen to podcasts. If

1:04:33

you are new to this podcast, welcome. I

1:04:35

am so glad that you're here. Make

1:04:38

sure that you're following on whatever platform you

1:04:40

like to listen on. All you have to

1:04:42

do is go to the main podcast page.

1:04:44

That's the one that lists all of the

1:04:46

Liz Moody podcast episodes and you will see

1:04:49

the word follow under the logo on Spotify.

1:04:51

And then there's a little follow with a plus

1:04:53

sign button on the top right of that same

1:04:55

page on Apple podcasts. This way

1:04:58

you will not miss out on any new

1:05:00

episodes. They will appear right in your feed

1:05:02

every single Wednesday and you do

1:05:04

not want to miss out because we have

1:05:06

some very exciting ones coming up, including an

1:05:08

episode about why so many young people are

1:05:10

getting cancer and the steps you can take

1:05:12

right now to protect yourself. This

1:05:14

is not scary. This is pragmatic, but this

1:05:16

is information that we need to have. You

1:05:19

might have seen the headlines recently. And we

1:05:21

have another episode that gives us tiny ways

1:05:23

to infuse our lives with joy. Okay.

1:05:26

I love you and I will see you

1:05:28

not next Wednesday, but next Monday for this

1:05:30

month's advice episode of the Liz Moody podcast.

1:05:32

We have a very fun guest for this

1:05:34

one. Someone who's likely made you laugh a

1:05:36

lot on TV over the years and who

1:05:38

shares a lot of great wisdom. So you

1:05:40

do not want to miss out. That

1:05:42

will be going live on Monday and I will

1:05:45

see you then. If

1:05:54

you know me, you know that I'm obsessed with my

1:05:57

cat Bella. I would walk through fire for her. I

1:05:59

tell her regular. that I love her more

1:06:01

than I love life itself. And I

1:06:03

am fully committed to doing everything I can

1:06:05

to make sure that she lives forever. And

1:06:08

ever since our pet health episode I have

1:06:10

rethought so many elements of her daily routine

1:06:12

to make sure that she is as healthy

1:06:14

as possible, which is why I am so

1:06:16

glad that I found pet honesty. From

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multivitamins and probiotics to seasonal allergy

1:06:20

relief, pet honesty offers a wide

1:06:22

variety of premium pet supplements to

1:06:24

fit all of your pet's needs.

1:06:27

I put the wild Alaskan salmon oil

1:06:29

on her food every single day, which

1:06:31

from my research is something that all

1:06:34

cats need more of. And it's made

1:06:36

such a wild difference in how soft

1:06:38

her fur is. And she stopped getting

1:06:40

this weird chin acne that she had,

1:06:42

which is apparently a known thing that

1:06:44

salmon oil supplementation helps with. I

1:06:47

also do the probiotic treats both because

1:06:49

she has a sensitive stomach and also

1:06:51

because I know how important gut health

1:06:53

is for overall immunity. She

1:06:55

loves them. She has no idea they're good

1:06:57

for her. She absolutely begs for them. Pet

1:07:00

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1:07:02

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1:07:04

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thiamine. The Pet Honesty product pledge

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1:07:48

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1:07:50

it is equally as important to be picky

1:07:52

about what's going into our beloved pet's bodies

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and that's why the Pet Honesty product pledge

1:07:56

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