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watching! Greetings

2:01

constant listeners and welcome to another episode

2:03

of The Losers Club, a Stephen King

2:06

podcast. I am your host

2:08

Jen To the Rage Adams and I

2:10

am traveling back to my hometown to

2:12

write a catty tell-all book about small-town

2:15

secrets and small-town lies that sure to

2:17

piss everyone off. That's right it's 2004

2:19

and we are

2:22

covering the TNT miniseries adaptation

2:24

of King's second novel Salem's

2:26

lot. In preparation for the

2:28

2022 release of new

2:31

Salem's lot, cannot wait for this movie that

2:33

we definitely will get to see. I was

2:35

just mentioning like all the research I did

2:37

on this was like and we can't wait

2:39

to see the new one in like two

2:42

years ago still hasn't happened but

2:44

I'm not alone. Joining us

2:46

in the town's only hangout and telling

2:48

a so-so author his work has no

2:51

moral center. Randall say hello and tell

2:53

us the first time you traveled to

2:55

modern-day Salem's lot. Hey it's

2:58

a rockin Randall dud

3:01

Colburn and when

3:04

did I first see this? I think I saw it soon

3:06

after it came out I probably rented it when

3:09

I was in college and then I but the

3:12

thing is this is my third time seeing it so

3:14

I didn't I remembered maybe

3:17

two scenes it's incredible that I can watch

3:19

a three hour miniseries twice it's been a

3:21

while because like I watched it again when

3:23

I was like I think a year after

3:25

I first watched it because my friends and

3:27

I like had a summer where we watched

3:29

like every miniseries and and I

3:32

and maybe we just talked

3:34

through a lot of it or something but it's

3:37

amazing how little of it I had remembered and

3:39

I think but

3:41

the thing is what I didn't forget was

3:43

the New York setting at the beginning and

3:45

the ending which you know we'll talk about

3:47

more because Jenn you blew my mind this morning

3:49

by telling me that the

3:52

authors did not know what happens in Wolves

3:54

of the Kala And so speaking

3:56

of, we should probably just say like if you

3:58

haven't read the Latter-day Dark Tower Books. Like

4:00

will probably talk a little bit

4:02

about. It's not huge spoilers, but

4:04

there are some spoilers down South

4:06

Bend anyways. I'm. Looking.

4:08

For to talk about this cause I

4:10

think it's an interesting relics i we're

4:12

decide whether certain for it started. There

4:14

is a time capsule element to this

4:16

and I'm. But. Also, it's it's

4:19

so it To me, it's such it's.

4:21

It. Is so good at times and so

4:24

terrible at times. Like the disparity is

4:26

me like it's so wild to me

4:28

so I'm by it. there's a lot

4:30

I'm going to descend at All said.

4:32

Yes, same N N. I also agree

4:34

with you to for like a star

4:36

studded adaptation of one of my favorite

4:39

king bucks. Like as a lot I

4:41

forgot about to sell Am but another

4:43

person is going to be joining us

4:45

hitching a ride with a passing plant

4:47

track after getting kicked off the school

4:49

bus. Rachel say hello and tell us

4:51

where you watching T and T Salem's

4:54

lot in two thousand for. A

4:56

hey yeah this is Rachel T

4:58

isn't see original really and I

5:00

did not see a live on

5:02

T and T but I didn't pick

5:04

up the Dvd. oh I'm not a

5:07

whole lot later and watch that

5:09

and you guys I'm just gonna admit

5:11

right now and it's it. As mentioned

5:13

before, this is the first version

5:15

of Salem's Lot that I saw. Oh

5:18

wow I thought of before I saw

5:20

the Sophie Hooper one. So the

5:22

Swiss. It was. It.

5:24

Was interesting then and

5:26

it's interesting now and.

5:29

I am very excited to talk about

5:31

the good, the bad. Ugly. Because

5:34

yep, All. Of this seems to be.

5:36

Contained This mini series has

5:38

it contains multitudes. On the does

5:40

I cannot wait. Six that it's the all of

5:42

that. Come with a girl trapped

5:44

under a dome as two thousand and

5:47

four times as I got. that's the

5:49

lack of the last thing I did

5:51

with the all is only as experts

5:54

say us forces that talking at sea

5:56

is emailing cute authors and painting lighthouses.

5:58

Honest hello and tell us when did

6:01

you first watch Rob Lowe bring been

6:03

mirrors to life. Hi

6:05

I am on a Murray. What

6:07

happens in Portland, stays in Portland

6:10

has a meaning Packs ah and

6:12

this is the first time I've

6:14

seen as. Salem's.

6:17

Lot The book is one of my. Very

6:19

favorite kings stories. Ah,

6:23

I. Would say actually maybe the second. Favorite

6:25

like signing and then. This and

6:27

or not this. But.

6:30

The books isn't a bad. Because

6:33

I am excited to hear what ya think

6:35

with good about this like M C I.

6:38

It. A this is a cast

6:40

is that is so fucking stacked. When

6:42

I saw it I was like or

6:44

a this might be good bad but

6:46

there's going to be some stuff in

6:48

here that I enjoy. I think Donald

6:50

Sutherland was just about the or like

6:52

Every time he's on screen everything comes

6:55

alive. Now it is the weirdest leg

6:57

of version of this parish to. Perfect.

7:00

That I can imagine it's

7:02

a but he'd rutger. Hauer

7:04

made some. Truth is I have

7:07

ended up and some boards. Races

7:09

and I do think it'll be.

7:12

Great to talk about because it

7:14

is to me bad in some

7:16

interesting and instructive ways. Ah,

7:19

where it chooses to veer.

7:21

From the book. Is. Fascinating

7:24

to me and I think we were set

7:26

say just saying like I think some of

7:28

those choices like were in Howard Beers from

7:30

the part of the back and says a

7:32

lot by to the about two thousand and

7:34

four yeah as the other day I wouldn't

7:37

say is that I'm. Such

7:39

a simple as such a great simple story. That's

7:41

when the reasons the book is so good and.

7:43

And. This movie just chooses to complicate it

7:46

in ways that I'm not. Like. The

7:48

whole structure. the flat but or a it's

7:50

so funny on hyderabad and we were

7:52

just saying like salem's lot seems like

7:54

such a slam dunk of an adaptation

7:56

dance not not that the any of

7:58

these things are easy but the

8:00

two miniseries that have been released, I

8:02

both feel like complicate in

8:04

their efforts to quote unquote streamline end up

8:06

over complicating what is a pretty simple story.

8:08

So I totally agree with you. There's like,

8:11

I, I, I, my heart aches that

8:14

we don't have like a really fucking

8:16

great Salem slot adaptation because I feel

8:18

like right there for the

8:20

story. Right.

8:23

It's just a ragtag team. Yeah,

8:26

it's one of the oldest best

8:28

versions of a hero's journey in

8:30

literature and they fuck it

8:32

up. Bye. Yeah. Give him to give

8:35

my hand away. I found

8:37

every character in this story repellent.

8:41

It's like edgeboard lot like

8:43

there's such a like everybody's an

8:45

asshole. None of them are fun

8:48

to spend time with except Donald

8:50

Sutherland because he is having the

8:53

time of his life wide eye

8:55

and all over that's part of what makes it

8:57

so 2004. Yeah. Oh yeah. Well,

9:02

I did watch this, I think live

9:04

actually, I think I T voted so

9:07

that, you know, tells you where I

9:09

was and I had started talking to this guy and

9:12

we made a date to watch it together. So I'm so excited. I

9:14

was like, it's a little sad. I love this book. And

9:17

then so we did watch the first one. We like

9:19

cuddled on my couch. And then after

9:21

this night, I decided I didn't want to

9:23

date him anymore. So we did not, we

9:25

should not ever have our second date. So

9:28

I didn't watch the second part of this

9:30

for like months because I was like, well,

9:32

I can't cause he'll find out. So yeah,

9:34

I, and I watched it. I actually watched

9:36

this before I watched the original mini series

9:38

too. Oh, good. I'm not alone. You're

9:40

not alone. Yeah. And it

9:43

is, it is, it's like one of those

9:45

great on paper things, you know, like it,

9:47

it's got all of the elements. It's got

9:50

everything it needs, which we'll talk about in

9:52

a minute, but there's just something about it.

9:54

It's just so bizarre, but it is a

9:56

rich text And there's lots

9:58

to dissect. Like I

10:00

said, I'm hopping into my sad car and

10:02

traveling to the bleak town of Salem's lot

10:05

two thousand and four. But before we go

10:07

to that stretch of nameless, take a detour

10:09

to the Dairy Public Library If is. Hop

10:13

album in a carrot you

10:15

see for a little boy.

10:30

Who lived. Here.

10:38

All right. So one thing that I

10:40

thought was pretty interesting about this there.

10:43

I didn't find a ton about the

10:45

production history, but I think it's interesting

10:47

to kind of a look at this

10:49

like who all is coming together to

10:51

make this and where it sits in

10:53

the timeline of Stephen King mini series

10:56

because you know this is ten years

10:58

after. The sandwich for me was my

11:00

beginning of Stephen King. Love you Now

11:02

I'm even though it I believe was

11:04

nineteen ninety. with this is a it

11:06

almost feels like kind of the end.

11:09

Of an era or maybe like

11:11

the last nail in the coffin

11:13

mint. Last of them have Stephen

11:15

King mini series And so according

11:17

to Stephen King Films as a

11:19

cue by Scott Van do Dove

11:22

yak the project began development when

11:24

Warner Brothers decided to once again

11:26

try and turn Stephen King second

11:28

novel into a theatrically released film.

11:30

But just like what happened with

11:32

Toby Hooper, Salem's Lot from Nineteen

11:35

Seventy Nine, circumstances evolved and saw

11:37

the remake moved to television. So

11:39

the big difference here in the lead

11:41

going into this production is that the

11:44

original aired on like network T V

11:46

and this one had a T and

11:48

T backing so there's a little more

11:50

flexibility. They can make it a little

11:52

darker, make it a little grady are

11:54

they had more flexibility with the contents.

11:57

So do we think this makes a

11:59

difference? Duel. Like the darker a

12:01

lot. I mean. It's.

12:04

Dark in a way in that

12:06

sort of like that the Saw

12:08

influences really strong here. like any

12:10

it's like our like the flashbacks

12:13

are at the quick cutting, they

12:15

kind of vibe and then everything

12:17

is that kind of sick We

12:19

orange this yellow eyed filters are

12:22

really intense and everything is kind

12:24

of edited like a music video

12:26

see and I'm it's it's not.

12:29

A style that I think his age gracefully

12:31

as much as I love the sauce and

12:34

on the saw films and learn to evolve

12:36

on our that well as adapt. What's that?

12:38

They use it well to in and I

12:40

think. I think they learned how to

12:42

use it while the and is it

12:45

as much of a saw to Defender

12:47

as I am like, I still hate

12:49

all of that like quit cut, bullshit,

12:51

an Ama, and Mike how everything looks

12:53

like it has jaundice, you know, And

12:55

that sort of that vibe is also

12:57

very prevalent in Salem's Lot, so it's

12:59

a different kind of dark, you know?

13:01

I mean, I think the I Toby

13:03

Hooper version has kind of i'm you

13:05

know, overcast quality to it that I

13:07

find appealing. But. Here, it's like

13:10

a i think you mentioned there's like an

13:12

edge lordy quality to s. I wouldn't call

13:14

it an edge lord sort of movie necessarily,

13:16

but I think I think a statically it's

13:18

sort of aiming for that. I've I don't

13:20

know, that. kind of like oddball chain necklace,

13:23

kind of. I'm. Sorry

13:25

you metal a man. Ossetia. That

13:27

I had I had like

13:29

several as as and the

13:31

same I. Think. It

13:34

is literally dark, obviously like assists

13:36

filmed and this really cares. Oh,

13:39

you're reminded me as remind me of Bussey. Yeah.

13:42

We are in the sound. The Seller, The

13:44

Movie. This. Show access

13:46

with got some Buffy connections

13:48

and that oh interesting missing.

13:51

Ah and. I.

13:55

Did do the some of these had never seen him do.

13:57

They have a lot of fake snow. Is. That

13:59

eyes. And now. because they all take place in warehouses.

14:03

Yeah. So that was something

14:06

this movie had weirdly. And

14:08

it's an interesting choice to make it that kind of muddied,

14:11

saturated palette, because

14:17

one of the outstanding kind

14:19

of images and feel you

14:22

get from the book is it happens in a

14:24

crisp fall setting. The

14:26

sky is like that electric blue that

14:29

fall skies can be. It

14:31

is a nostalgic setting. And

14:33

it contrasts with like, it's the

14:36

two flavors of fall in

14:38

that book, the

14:41

fall that reminds us of the richness

14:43

of the earth and freshly turned ground

14:45

in a good way. And

14:47

then there's the part of fall that we realize

14:49

everything is dying. And

14:52

it's one of the beautiful contrasts in the

14:54

book. And this movie doesn't have any beautiful

14:56

contrast. This movie is

14:58

just relentlessly ugly. People

15:02

suck, small towns suck,

15:04

big cities suck. Vampires

15:07

suck. He was going to write the book to expose

15:09

it. I know. I

15:11

know. And yeah, and also

15:14

that's another contrast that's the present in the book

15:16

that's not present here, which is Mears's contrasting

15:19

feelings about the town. His

15:22

incredible nostalgia and warmth towards it. And the

15:24

feeling of bitterness and this feeling of like,

15:26

there's something underneath the surface. And

15:29

there is no warmth to

15:31

this portrayal of small town life whatsoever.

15:33

It is just unrelenting

15:37

everything. And

15:39

I remember 2004 was pretty dark. I

15:41

remember. I remember the Kerry campaign. Also,

15:49

it's like the

15:51

losing terrible Kerry campaign. But

15:54

yeah, wow, this didn't. I

15:57

don't remember it being this unrelenting, but maybe.

16:00

Maybe they're. You. For agree

16:02

cause. I'm a

16:04

little surprised they didn't take more advantage because

16:06

it was on cable. They could do a

16:08

little bit more content wise like violence and

16:10

get our and that kind of stuff because

16:12

it doesn't feel. Like.

16:14

They actually did much to.

16:16

Make that and a whole lot darker a

16:19

little bit and there is. There is some

16:21

things that I think or yeah compared to

16:23

the seventies you probably couldn't get away with,

16:25

but even in two thousand and four, it

16:27

does still feel pretty tame. To mean if

16:30

Alice team at the time it feels tame

16:32

now. so I think it's interesting. Yeah, it's

16:34

It's so much darker and mood and home.

16:36

And but in terms of making actually scary

16:39

like totally supers. Is scarier? Yeah, right. Yeah.

16:41

and they they could have. Actually, I think

16:43

you know they were willing to make cheeses.

16:45

There's some changes in some things they could

16:47

have done that may be potentially actually would

16:49

have made it feel a lot darker in

16:52

terms of scares birds are. Now it's as.

16:54

Doesn't. Have quite the same bites against

16:57

civilian A. Severe. It's not like it's sunny

16:59

and he feels he was. Yeah Others of

17:01

there's a handful of sequences I think are

17:03

pretty effective on we can talk about those

17:05

waiter but see a young terms of gore

17:08

I feel like they may be used up

17:10

their whole quotient with be I'm with the

17:12

Jimmy Cody falling on a bus on said

17:14

I just again I would ever see I

17:16

am I and then I like when he's

17:18

you know when he. They. States striker

17:20

in Africa. Odd barlow you actually see like

17:23

the inside and go into the heart like

17:25

thousand kind of course act and I like

17:27

bad but if you see of these tantalized

17:29

i was trial a guy that's pretty dicey.

17:32

like you know, you gotta cut every other

17:34

moment of us down. Yeah well as for

17:36

a very. For. Get a cast a scene

17:38

where I'm Matt Birk and makers and

17:40

do hooked up enough yes they which

17:42

we will thought of as. an

17:45

outline on amundsen fake snow sell this

17:47

first aired on t and t on

17:50

june twentieth and and it it's ryan

17:52

the next night june twenty first and

17:54

it was shot on location which i

17:57

started that sentence thinking it was gonna

17:59

be on location in Maine, but

18:01

no, it was shot in Crestwick

18:04

and Woodland in central Victoria, Australia.

18:06

That's so wild. I know. Australian

18:10

tax breaks, man, I guess. I guess so, but like

18:12

Canadian tax breaks, too. All these things were shot in

18:14

British Columbia, usually, so it's so wild

18:16

to... Where you would have

18:18

real snow. Yeah. Oh, but

18:20

you don't need snow in this show. You

18:23

don't need it. Why was

18:25

it... I don't understand why it was there.

18:27

And there were times that they're wearing jackets

18:29

and you can tell they're not comfortable wearing

18:31

jackets. You all notice that? Because it's like 100 degrees

18:33

outside. Right. But

18:36

yeah, so my question is, does this look like

18:38

Maine at all? It looks

18:40

like an outside. No, it struck me as more

18:42

Midwest struggling, poor town. You

18:51

know what I mean? Red Belt kind of thing. Places like

18:53

where I grew up. Yeah. And there's a

18:55

lot of trailer parks. All

18:58

the grass is dead. You know what I mean? It's that

19:00

kind of vibe. Yeah. It reminded

19:02

me a little bit of Lincoln, Nebraska, which

19:04

is where I spent time in my childhood, that

19:08

there is both a side of town where

19:11

there's lots of trailer parks and it's pretty

19:13

rundown. And

19:15

then also, what's

19:17

his face? Bad

19:20

guy, real estate. Oh, Crockett. Oh,

19:22

Larry and Crockett? Crockett lives in a

19:24

McMansion. Yeah. Which track?

19:26

Yeah, it totally tracks that there's

19:29

a McMansion side of town and

19:31

then there's this side

19:33

of town. Yeah. It's

19:36

wild to me that was filmed in Australia. I

19:38

guess it was tax breaks thing. And then you

19:41

also, I want to commend though, Australian

19:43

actors doing American accents. Yeah.

19:45

I would not have known it was Australian.

19:48

I did not have any moment where I

19:50

was like, oh my God, that's an Australian person. Yeah.

19:53

You guys told me Cody, Jimmy Cody was Australian. I had

19:55

no clue. No idea. Credit for that actor.

19:57

Well, they cut the scene out where he rides a a

20:00

kangaroo. A kangaroo. They're like, no, you

20:02

would do none of it. Theneemers are

20:04

all wearing those hats at

20:07

the one side. They're

20:09

always like kicking koalas off their legs in the middle of

20:12

the scene. I apologize

20:14

to all of our Australian listeners. Well,

20:17

okay, so I mentioned this is a good on

20:20

paper movie, and it really does have a lot

20:22

of like, I think good solid

20:24

filmmakers behind it. So the director, Michael

20:26

Solomon, he's not somebody that I had

20:28

heard of himself, but I had heard

20:31

of a lot of the stuff he's

20:33

done. So he started off as a

20:35

cinematographer. Did

20:37

The Abyss? The

20:40

Abyss, yeah. Always Arachnophobia, Backdraft,

20:42

which was my first R-rated movie

20:44

in the theater, and Why I

20:46

Will Forever Love, William Baldwin. Yes,

20:49

and Far and Away. And

20:51

then he directed, well, he directed two

20:54

episodes of Nightmares and Dreamscapes. Half the

20:56

people involved in this thing were also

20:58

involved in Nightmares and Dreamscapes, but he

21:00

directed two episodes of Band of Brothers.

21:03

He directed two episodes of The

21:05

Expanse. And he directed Big Driver, too,

21:07

yeah, which, you know. He

21:10

just did an episode on that one.

21:12

Exactly, yeah, an award-winning, like, well-known big

21:14

driver, you know. This

21:17

is stunning to me. Because

21:19

one of the things I would not say about this

21:21

movie is it is well-directed. Yeah,

21:24

it doesn't, like, hit me over the head with

21:26

it being badly directed, you know? But, like, yeah,

21:28

it doesn't... I

21:31

think it's got a few fun directorial flourishes

21:33

that I will share later. But overall, though,

21:35

I think that there are major problems in

21:37

terms of clarity and pacing. Yeah. And,

21:41

like, but a lot of it strikes me as

21:43

stuff. I think that there was a lot

21:45

of compromise that went into this. And I

21:48

think that about the script and the direction and

21:50

just the general thrust and arc of the piece.

21:53

Yeah. But we'll talk about

21:55

that later. Well, and speaking

21:57

of kind of pacing issues and

21:59

things... that I think are great

22:01

but also awful. Our teleplay is

22:03

by Peter Filardi and

22:06

if that name sounds familiar it's because we

22:08

did an interview with him and a couple

22:11

of other people involved with Chapelweight because he

22:13

was one of the writers on Chapelweight

22:15

which we were really high on. I

22:17

really enjoyed that. I like it. I did

22:19

too. I was really bummed it got canceled. Didn't

22:21

get a second one. Anna did you see Chapelweight?

22:24

I haven't. It's a I assume a

22:26

Jack the Ripper related. No it's ostensibly

22:31

an adaptation of Jerusalem's Lot which is the

22:33

night shift story but it's that's so loose.

22:35

It's really it was just I see that

22:37

they had to attach to it. Now

22:39

that you've said the magic word of vampire.

22:41

Oh yeah. The vampire story. It's it's real

22:44

trade and I am looking for something to

22:46

watch tonight so. This almost feels like

22:49

like Chapelweight is maybe what Filardi wanted this

22:51

to be. I think yeah I think Chapelweight's

22:53

got issues like and it takes a couple

22:56

episodes I think to really start

22:58

cooking but like man the last couple episodes

23:00

of Chapelweight were absolutely so much fun and

23:02

had a lot of the energy I wish

23:04

I saw here and and yeah Peter Filardi

23:06

like he wrote Flatliners like he's got he's

23:09

got a lot of you

23:11

know good credits to his name and so

23:13

and when I watched it with that in

23:16

mind and with Chapelweight in mind I definitely

23:18

appreciated I think like I started

23:21

to see more of the cleverness

23:23

behind some of the writing. I

23:25

think that I don't think the

23:27

script in this is

23:29

is is terrible. I it

23:31

feels to me like there was a lot of hands in

23:33

the mix that maybe made

23:36

it a little over complicated and convoluted especially

23:38

when it comes to the prologue and the

23:40

epilogue which takes place

23:42

in New York and we'll get into that

23:44

shortly but it's like I do think that

23:46

there's some really fun crackling dialogue at times

23:48

which is surprising but

23:50

I I do think that adaptation

23:54

wise there are some questionable

23:57

choices. Yeah the outline

23:59

feels very bizarre. The

24:01

whole structure, which I know we're

24:03

going to get into is very, it's

24:06

weird because it's, it's

24:09

in a way, and a cut and paste

24:11

of the structure of the book, right? It

24:14

bookended flashbacks, but at the same

24:16

time, like the way that they chose

24:18

to the

24:21

vehicle for those flashbacks, I believe is questionable.

24:23

Yes, yes. You know, it's

24:26

not questionable though, is flatliners, which I will

24:28

not miss any opportunity to shout this fucking

24:30

movie to the rooftops. I love it so

24:32

much. I'm talking about the original with all

24:34

the 90s dream boats in it. He

24:37

also wrote the craft. Rachel, I'm seeing you

24:39

nod along. Are you also a flatliners fan?

24:41

Oh, I love flatliners. And yet I think,

24:45

like I think that it's putting into

24:47

context with all of his other works. It's

24:50

really like, it's so surprising. I know.

24:52

When I found out who wrote it too. Yeah. And

24:55

look at that. But it does kind of make sense because it

24:57

does feel like I'm not sure if it was his idea or

24:59

TNT's, but some of the choices that I know

25:01

we're going to talk about, it just kind

25:03

of reframes to me anyways, the entire story

25:06

and kind of like the thematic ideas that

25:08

he's exploring, which it's like, okay, well, that's

25:10

fine. Like I see what you're doing, but

25:12

also I'm not really sure why. Like

25:16

why you felt that was necessary. But it does

25:18

in some ways, I think fit in with a

25:20

lot of his other films and some of the

25:22

other kind of the darkness ideas

25:24

and like with flatliners and just,

25:26

and it's just very, very, very interesting

25:29

that this was what he chose to

25:31

kind of add to that mix and

25:33

kind of sort of continue that career

25:35

exploration of death and

25:37

guilt and darkness and that kind

25:39

of stuff. It's, yeah, no, for better

25:42

or for worse, I guess. And I feel

25:44

like there's a thread there in Chapelweight. And I

25:46

do remember talking about that of like this, this

25:48

like reclaiming life after death

25:50

and like grief and stuff. And I feel

25:52

like that is really appropriate in Chapelweight. And

25:54

I think he's trying to kind of do

25:56

that a little bit of that here. Falls

26:00

real flat. There's just not a lot of

26:02

space for it. Yeah, exactly. And that's also

26:04

not really what the story is about, you

26:07

know? Right, 100%. Well, okay.

26:10

So, I was looking into this a little bit.

26:12

I found a, it was

26:14

kind of like a review explainer piece from

26:17

moria.com. I could not find an author

26:19

on this. So, I assume that it's just

26:21

Mr. Moria is who writes it. So,

26:24

he slash she slash they write. At

26:26

least Salem's Lot 2004 is much closer

26:28

to the spirit of Stephen King than

26:31

the 1979 version,

26:33

in the sense that Peter Fullardy spends more

26:35

time getting inside the heads of the people

26:37

that inhabit the town, a regular trait of

26:39

King's work. Do we agree? And

26:42

if so, do we actually need that

26:44

here? Right. It's,

26:48

I feel like they're like half right there. Because I

26:50

feel like what I like about this is I feel

26:52

like we get like introduced to

26:54

people that all of that, like getting introduced

26:56

to these characters is a bit more streamlined

26:58

than perhaps the book just because by the nature of

27:00

the story, we have longer to get there in the

27:02

book than we do in this. And here it feels

27:04

like it's very efficient in the way that it's introducing

27:07

these characters and their place in the town and their

27:09

connections with each other. Like I appreciate

27:11

that. But I don't actually think that

27:13

we're getting into them

27:16

and the spirit of the town that's

27:18

represented in the book at all. Right.

27:22

I feel like we're getting a different version

27:24

of Salem's lot. So it's like I feel

27:26

like that person is half correct,

27:28

maybe in my opinion. I

27:31

don't think that person is correct. I

27:34

mean, I think that I mean, we're introduced

27:36

to the town characters. I don't think we get inside their

27:38

heads. I think we get the

27:40

most this then that I don't even in the way

27:43

that it's streamlined is like the choices they make with

27:45

the bus driver are wild to

27:47

me. Yeah. And

27:49

to me, it's that's when it I

27:53

think this is an antiwar movie. What a leap.

27:55

What a leap. I mean, I know it's

27:57

not there. The

28:00

they are now like what May Avenue and

28:02

will buy it on are weird. This is

28:04

an anti war movies. Like

28:07

assistance. But I guess that

28:09

darkness as permeating this like

28:11

land in society, right? Like

28:13

species. That's definitely. An undefeated with

28:15

as I were movie Isis is revealed

28:18

about this. Other words here yet no

28:20

one ever sees. As I mean are

28:22

you know the eyes? You really are the

28:24

other. So the way humanizes the vampires and

28:26

has vampires like sort of speak to the

28:28

he their own you. Put. Yes,

28:30

humanity and I have this

28:33

and then like. There's.

28:35

This mark Petri as like the young American

28:37

soldier forced to fight the war that his

28:39

parents. Started A mean is

28:42

is. It is so.

28:44

In that's not what the with this iraqi.

28:47

I know if I was,

28:50

I love that articulation on

28:52

I. And I do think that

28:54

that is there, but it's like there's no

28:56

place for it here in this isn't the

28:58

right now able to keyboard. Enjoyed it completely.

29:00

Grafted onto a story that the

29:02

about. Into a. Story.

29:05

That's about. It it's on original idea

29:07

of it's about Innocence Ray The yeah know what the

29:09

result he has to sell on plot is about is

29:11

that the corruption of Innocence. And

29:13

will That means that Hillary hating

29:15

her solicited like this is modern

29:18

Evil? Modern modern era is nice.

29:20

I I can see that a

29:22

writer who is interested in writing

29:24

about an anti war movie can

29:26

see this story about the crux

29:28

of innocence and be like perfect.

29:31

Ray. Moore is also crushed. Service. Maps

29:34

and of the american going for it

29:37

raised in so healing draws out the

29:39

stuff from the original that you cannot

29:41

be lay I guess that there's a

29:44

parallel now this is they burn it

29:46

is really where labour and like destruction

29:48

to you know like the town cunning

29:51

going down in flames and what happens

29:53

every by like the wrath kind of

29:55

all doing out in and yeah and

29:58

at at. Gotta

30:00

say, I think. Like.

30:03

I love all that discussion, but I think.

30:06

Just. Circling back to the idea of getting into

30:08

these people's heads. We. Do

30:10

spend a lot of time with.

30:12

The. Larger ensemble isn't a

30:15

problem for me is like the

30:17

stories that they get like Jimmy

30:19

Cody is like. Sleeping. With

30:22

this one every one area with and

30:24

not mine it evidently cities of hundred

30:26

eighteen I think they're yeah and there's

30:28

like and there's like she's married and

30:30

and there's this like blackmail plot. it's

30:32

just soap opera shit and I'm like

30:34

this isn't I'm not getting it to

30:36

I don't need like the character be

30:38

likable or something but this isn't a

30:40

compelling story and and it is just

30:42

like like it's just gross like everybody

30:44

thing that ever since we had a

30:46

small to it's just gross like I'd

30:48

like I don't wanna spend i don't

30:50

know it's have music's. I I don't like to

30:52

be. That person is like. Like. I'm.

30:54

He's the he's a bad person so I

30:57

don't want to spend time with them because

30:59

sometimes bad people are really compelling but it's

31:01

just a dumb store society. Today I use

31:03

them as the i would have spent the

31:05

entire movie with Donald Sutherland. Yeah yeah I

31:07

would and it's like to the movie. That

31:09

was just as yes Is advising her

31:11

as a killer cerner dad. Kind of

31:14

like let's just fine. I'm gonna other

31:16

lands. Well, I don't have any. Really

31:18

is as if you want a movie

31:20

about vampires with Rutger Hauer and Donald

31:22

Sutherland. Buffy the Vampire Slayer. Which

31:26

is weird when the first time I'd ever seen

31:28

either of them and when I fell in love

31:30

with both of them. the as like if you

31:32

want to write an anti war movie based on

31:34

the Stephen King novel like Center is right there

31:36

and. Yeah,

31:38

I agree with you. It's like if you've

31:40

gotta give me to compelling element of the

31:43

so bad as the kind of thing like

31:45

that, I just i. Don't care enough

31:47

to want to spend time with these

31:49

of repellent people, you know, am

31:52

well okay so reviews were i

31:54

was expecting the thing to get

31:56

torn apart and merv hughes were

31:58

surprisingly mix to positive I found

32:00

New York Daily News. It's

32:03

been a decade since television has mounted

32:05

an effective miniseries version of a Stephen

32:07

King novel. Sadly, after watching the remake

32:09

of Salem's Lot starring Rob Lowe and

32:11

premiering Sunday and Monday nights at

32:13

8 on TNT, that string continues.

32:16

It's got a creepy moment or

32:18

two and fleeting glimpses of solid

32:20

performances from supporting players James Cromwell

32:22

and Omdary Brower, but most of

32:24

it just plods along. Agree. And

32:26

then later, though time is

32:28

taken to establish all the town characters in

32:30

their relationships, everything is laid out

32:32

so blatantly that it's not so

32:34

much development as boredom. Lowe's

32:36

Performance 2 meets those parameters and Mathis

32:39

is even more so. In Salem's

32:41

Lot, there's a lot that's disappointing and

32:43

precious little that resonates. And I kind

32:45

of agree. Then

32:48

Newsday had a more positive one. Screenwriter

32:50

Peter Folarity and director Michael Solomon

32:53

have defied the odds delivering a

32:55

four hour two night version of

32:57

King's Vampire Infestation parable that ranks

32:59

with the best filming of his

33:01

work. Wow.

33:04

Can't go there. No, yeah, I can't go

33:06

there. Okay. And then

33:08

LA Times gross and engrossing TNT's

33:10

two parter that begins Sunday night

33:12

is downright spooky. It's also more

33:14

than a little hokey, but fine

33:16

performances from Rob Lowe is

33:19

the torture brighter. Ondre Brower is the

33:21

high school teacher with secrets. And Donald

33:23

Sutherland is the creepy antique dealer in

33:25

the big mansion that serve up a

33:27

heap of horror. In Leslar hands, Salem's

33:29

Lot could quickly get campy, which

33:31

I think it already

33:33

is. The Redux is quicker and more violent

33:36

than the 1979 effort that

33:38

had David Soule as the writer, Lou Ayers

33:40

as the teacher and James Mason as the

33:42

dealer. It's been updated, dotted

33:45

with references to the internet, the

33:47

war in Afghanistan, the Taliban, war

33:49

crimes, emailing, pornography, and a certain

33:51

dog named Kujo. And so

33:53

I was thinking about like where we were with

33:56

Stephen King, because this was before the

33:58

Stephen King Renaissance. You know, I think

34:01

like, well, we just starved for Stephen

34:04

King stuff. And that's why I think

34:06

this hit better than we're reviewing it,

34:08

you know. Yeah,

34:11

I think and I think the the

34:14

the standards probably for like

34:16

what a TNT miniseries event

34:18

was probably pretty low in

34:20

terms of like, you know,

34:22

what about, you know, the production

34:24

quality and everything else. So I

34:27

think I

34:29

think in the cast, I think is

34:31

so starry that that probably did a

34:33

lot to, I think, soften

34:36

maybe parts of it. I don't know. Like

34:38

I it's weird those reviews because

34:41

one one is kind of like this sucks. And

34:43

the other one is like, this is one of

34:45

the best things, best King adaptations ever filmed. It's

34:48

just a bizarre. I mean, I don't know. When

34:50

I look back on that post 9-11 pop culture

34:52

escape from basically like 2001 to 2006 or

34:54

so, it's like what a to me, it

34:59

just feels like a bombed out wasteland. Like

35:02

nobody was thinking clearly. We were all you

35:04

know, it reminds me a lot of like the

35:07

early Trump years in terms of pop culture

35:09

where everyone just lost their minds and like

35:11

forgot how to make art and everything

35:13

kind of like politics and pop culture were

35:16

sort of like becoming wrapped around each other

35:18

and in really suffocating ways. And I

35:20

think there was a certain darkness and a

35:22

certain cynicism that is pervading. Well,

35:25

if not, then it like I think with the

35:27

Trump era, it was like kind of a different,

35:29

it was almost like a toxic optimism. And then

35:31

with post 9-11 though, I

35:33

think it was impossible not to sink into a

35:35

certain kind of despair and cynicism. And that that

35:37

really colors for me. I think a lot of

35:40

this is that there's a misery that is, and

35:42

I don't know, you touched on this a little

35:44

bit earlier. There's like just a misery that's kind

35:46

of coursing through it. That to me is how

35:48

I look at a lot of that, you know,

35:50

and I know it's a broad statement, but yeah,

35:52

it just for me, that's like when I

35:54

look back on that time, that's what stands out

35:57

to me. See, that's such an interesting read as someone

35:59

who lives through it. and was a little older than you. I

36:02

was through it. I mean, but you were older than

36:04

me. Do you not remember

36:06

all the essays about this is the end of irony

36:08

and this is the end of snark? Well,

36:11

I probably would be reading essays at that point. I was

36:13

reading even teen books. I

36:16

was writing about politics at the time. And

36:19

this is also the era of

36:21

mission accomplished, banners. And

36:23

so to call it an era of cynicism,

36:26

and this is

36:28

people buying into WMDs and believing the

36:33

Department of Homeland Security. And

36:38

what I think you're seeing here is

36:40

actually the beginning of this weird, the

36:43

beginning of the antagonistic relationship

36:47

between certain areas of pop culture and

36:49

politics. And

36:52

the assumption by some people in popular culture that

36:54

we're going to have to take the flag of

36:57

resisting something that did, I think your

36:59

parallel to the Trump era is actually really smart because

37:02

it's the idea that

37:04

we in entertainment are going to have

37:06

to be the people that resist the

37:08

power that be because people in journalism

37:10

are not doing it. And I

37:12

will say as someone who was in journalism, that

37:15

was a not incorrect assessment of

37:17

what was happening. And so

37:20

you get the development of the Daily Show. And

37:24

you get sort of the beginning of

37:26

very, what I would in retrospect say,

37:28

like not very sophisticated arguments

37:30

from like actors and entertainers

37:32

about their politics. And

37:37

this to me is that it is

37:39

an incredibly earnest attempt to

37:41

like resist the narrative of

37:43

the ASEAN war. It's

37:46

the narrative that's being sold to us

37:48

by politicians. But it's just

37:50

so clumsy and it's

37:52

earnestness. I think

37:54

it's not cynical at all. I think it's

37:56

really earnest in its criticism of the.

38:00

dominant paradigm as it were, right? I think, yeah,

38:02

I think it's right. It thinks that it's making a

38:04

point. Right. This movie thinks

38:06

it's making a very serious point about

38:08

corruption and about the lies

38:10

that people tell. Yeah, I think I'm

38:12

using cynical. It's not ironic or cynical. I

38:15

mean, cynical in that way, cynical in that way

38:17

that it's like, see, I'm, it's the cynicism of

38:19

a teenager. Well, I was

38:22

a teenager at the time. And so it's

38:24

like that to me, so when I talk

38:26

about that era of being laden with cynicism

38:28

and you talk about like mission accomplished and

38:30

everything, nobody in my circle, because I was

38:33

at a libt-hearted college or

38:35

whatever. So it was just like

38:37

we were all rolling our

38:39

eyes at all of that shit all the time. I mean, I was

38:41

a born again Christian at that time and I was still rolling my

38:43

eyes at all of that shit. Like there

38:46

was an intense, I think,

38:50

anger at the political situation,

38:52

at the war, at all of these things.

38:54

So I wasn't engaging with like the journalism

38:56

that was believing Bush's lies and all of

39:03

that kind of stuff. I was

39:06

engaging with this kind of art

39:08

that was angry in a very teenager friendly

39:10

kind of way. But you didn't understand the

39:13

difference between cynicism, the cynicism

39:15

of a teenager versus like kind of a

39:17

more- I

39:20

know what you're saying and I think you're 100% right. Because

39:23

I think cynicism is a word that I

39:25

sometimes use interchangeably in ways that I probably

39:28

shouldn't. But I think sometimes it's more of

39:30

a vibe that I'm thinking about and sometimes

39:32

it's more of a way

39:35

to look at the world. And I think what

39:37

you're getting at is a more

39:40

mature, I think, view of what cynicism

39:42

is. For me, it was more just

39:44

kind of like I

39:46

had no faith in the world at that

39:49

time. But who among us

39:51

has not been through that phase, right?

39:53

That's an important part of growing up.

39:55

And I think actually King has- he-

39:57

that's an interesting part of that.

39:59

interest of his, right, is actually sort

40:02

of the difference between the cynicism

40:04

of a youth and

40:07

like, fuck that, you know,

40:10

like you can't

40:12

you're not the boss of me. And then kind of

40:16

the earned cynicism of someone

40:18

older, which I would also

40:20

say that it's

40:22

almost I feel like we're not using our

40:25

correct our terms, like you said, we're sort

40:27

of using terms interchangeably that I can't I

40:29

haven't had my second cup of coffee yet. I don't know

40:31

if I'm quite reaching for I'm reaching for

40:33

words that I don't have on the tip of my tongue

40:35

right now. But just in my personal

40:38

development, I would say I went through the

40:40

punk rock, everything sucks, you're not the boss

40:42

of me phase in

40:44

high school and college. And then

40:46

as I've gotten older, I've actually

40:49

gotten weirdly more optimistic at the

40:51

same time that I've gotten more

40:53

disappointed. I

40:55

have a disappointment when things don't turn

40:58

out well, but I actually don't think

41:00

everything sucks. Yeah, like, and

41:02

I and I also understand, I think

41:05

a little bit more the subtleties of

41:07

why power corrupts people and how no,

41:10

it is true that no one is immune to

41:12

the corruption of power. But at the same

41:14

time, that means that I need to watch out

41:16

for that as well. Because I am

41:18

part of that same system that

41:20

corrupts people. And this

41:23

movie doesn't

41:25

see that. Yeah, in a

41:27

way, like it doesn't go ahead. It's

41:30

just really funny that we're having this conversation

41:32

in the shadow of the Salem's

41:34

lot 2004 mini series. I

41:37

was not expecting that getting on this call. And that's why

41:39

I love

41:43

being on the show with y'all. Because like,

41:45

I think that this is actually one

41:47

of the things that King is really

41:49

good for. And even though this is

41:51

not an actual King work, I think

41:53

that he does deal with these big,

41:55

big questions about how we deal with

42:00

the presence of evil and the present

42:02

the fact that evil can affect

42:04

all of us. Yeah. And I

42:06

think because his characters are always so

42:08

relatable because they feel so real like

42:11

there it's so right for

42:13

us bringing our own things to it,

42:16

you know, but like when when you

42:18

said this is an anti-war text, I

42:20

the first thing I thought was like

42:22

Texas Chainsaw Massacre and how that's being

42:24

like kind of re-evaluated as like about

42:26

this economic crisis that, you know, I

42:28

wasn't alive for so it almost feels

42:30

like a quaint thing and I think,

42:34

you know, 20 years down the road,

42:36

I don't feel like the

42:38

political vibes of this are going to

42:40

hold up in quite the way they

42:42

were hoping it would, you know, I

42:44

don't think they'd nail the land. Ever

42:46

watch an old daily show? No, I

42:48

have not. Don't make me. You'd have

42:51

to do Clockwork Orange like, I know my eyes

42:53

open to make a fucking

42:55

love for that show. I did at the time,

42:57

yeah. But it is

42:59

not aged particularly well because this

43:02

is just of a piece of that. Yeah.

43:04

100%. Well, that

43:07

last review mentioned Kujo, who

43:09

is a dog that broke all the rules and

43:13

in honor of Kujo, I'm

43:15

going to shake things up a little

43:17

bit with our categories. Before we go

43:19

to Heroes and Villains, I want to

43:22

break some beams in a category called

43:24

Beam Breakers. Why did the

43:26

man in black want to destroy the power? The

43:29

power protect both our walls. If it

43:31

falls, hell will be unleashed. Kujo,

43:36

a dog who broke all the rules. What is

43:38

this new category for me? Oh, yeah, we do

43:40

this with movies. But no, this is Kujo, a

43:42

dog who broke all the rules is one of

43:48

the funniest sentences. That is like the Spring

43:50

Breakers version of Kujo. That's like,

43:52

I mean, I

43:54

am only going to refer to it in a

43:56

very different way. I'm

44:00

only referring to Kujo as that from now on.

44:02

It's like how I can only call Shawshank Redemption

44:04

Andy and the Slammer now because Justin called it

44:06

that. And so now I will

44:09

forever call Kujo the dog who broke all

44:11

the rules. The dog's a little punk-cracked teenager.

44:13

He's got a vest with his anarchy, like, catch

44:15

on the back. He's got a chain-lock.

44:17

Or it's bad, right? You're going to have to bust me.

44:21

He's got a spike collar. Well,

44:24

the reason I wanted to go to Game Breakers

44:26

first, which is a category we talk about, does

44:28

this feel like king, is because

44:31

there are some big differences right

44:33

off the bat. We've already kind

44:35

of hinted at it. I want

44:37

to say these differences with individual

44:39

characters like the whole Jimmy Cody

44:41

sextortion thing for our next category.

44:43

But broadly speaking, Filarty and Solomon

44:46

made some major changes. The

44:48

first thing, like right away, we see,

44:50

hey, they're not in a tiny town

44:52

in Mexico, which I just think is

44:54

Zuatineo from Andy and the Slammer because that's

44:57

fun to say. But

45:01

so this version, I called the

45:04

section Wolves of the Callahan. If you

45:06

are a spoiler-sensitive listener, you've not finished

45:08

reading The Dark Tower, you might want

45:10

to skip ahead about maybe five minutes.

45:13

So this version has Callahan kind of

45:16

take over for the vampires. Still

45:18

a little not totally sure what's

45:21

going on. But

45:23

because like he's in daytime. But

45:27

it begins with Ben and Mark confronting Callahan at

45:29

a soup kitchen, which I thought was Detroit, but

45:31

Randall is it New York? Oh, it might

45:33

be Detroit. It's Detroit. It's Detroit. Y'all

45:36

confuse the heck out of me because they say

45:38

Detroit a few times. Oh, my bad.

45:40

But in Wolves of the Calla, it's New

45:42

York, right? Yeah, I think that's it. I

45:44

had that in my head. Well, okay. So

45:47

what's crazy is, you know, if you've read

45:49

Wolves of the Calla, you know, that Callahan

45:51

shows up, which I mean, seems

45:53

obvious right there because it's Wolves of the Callahan. But

45:57

apparently, Filarity and Mickelson

45:59

are. Solomon did not know

46:01

about Wolves of the Cowlah during

46:03

production. So is this

46:06

a weird coincidence or is

46:08

Ka truly a wheel? This

46:10

is so weird to me. I and when you

46:12

when you told me this, like, or when I

46:14

saw it in your in your outline this morning,

46:16

I was like, I had always

46:19

been under the assumption that they at least

46:21

because, you know, I can see why they

46:23

wouldn't have because Wolves of the Cowlah came

46:25

out in 2003. And they were probably filming

46:27

it that year. But I guess I had

46:30

been under the assumption that they in some

46:32

way were familiar with the text or they

46:34

knew that Callahan's post Salem's lot, like Dark

46:36

Tower story involved a period where he lived

46:38

in New York City and he was working

46:40

at soup kitchens and doing stuff like that.

46:43

So I think I just always assumed it

46:45

was New York City because of that now.

46:47

And I remember when I first watched it

46:49

being so excited, because I was like, Oh,

46:51

my God, they're folding in Dark Tower stuff

46:54

into this. Like, it felt so modern and

46:56

fresh because and so interesting

46:58

because I just read Wolves of the Cowlah,

47:00

you know, and so and I loved Callahan's

47:02

journey in that. But but

47:04

then I remember being so completely

47:06

baffled by the direction it takes

47:08

because it's so it's such a

47:10

departure from Wolves of the

47:13

Cowlah. And it's, you

47:15

know, it turns Callahan into sort of like

47:17

the main villain in a weird way. And

47:20

and all that stuff at the end to

47:22

me is really gobbledygooky. I have no like,

47:24

it's really, really strange. And then also,

47:26

I think they shoot themselves in the foot by doing

47:28

this because because Cromwell

47:31

is James Cromwell as Callahan is

47:33

barely in the first part. Like

47:35

we see him in the intro and we see

47:37

that Rob Lowe's chasing him. And like

47:40

you're watching it and you you see James

47:42

Cromwell like once or twice. And so the

47:44

question, you know, it's fine to have some

47:46

mystery as to how to those those two

47:49

characters end up with that dynamic in the

47:51

city that is not Salem's lot. It's an

47:53

interesting question. But there's no relationship between Ben

47:55

and Callahan whatsoever in the first part and

47:57

barely any I mean, you know, There's

48:00

some in the second part, but it still feels very

48:02

distant You never feel that those two characters have any

48:04

kind of like real dynamic And

48:06

so that choice to me is

48:09

really really strange and the fact

48:11

that they got there without Without

48:15

knowing about wolves of the Kala is even

48:18

more strange But I'll just add that I can

48:20

see how they would end up there

48:23

only having read Salem's lot because Callahan

48:25

is this person who is sort of

48:28

a weird conduit between full vampire and

48:30

like, you know human and So

48:33

I think that when they needed like

48:35

a non Striker Barlow

48:37

villain something to tie everything together. They

48:39

were like well, he's a natural choice

48:41

But it also kills what to me

48:43

is so haunting about the Callahan

48:46

character in the novel Which is that this

48:48

is a guy who basically his entire faith

48:50

is shattered his entire Reason for being is

48:52

shattered and he realizes that he has become

48:54

undead He is sort of the antithesis of

48:56

what you know, a holy man should be

48:59

he is part of the undead now There's

49:01

a demonic, you know presence that wrapped up

49:03

in him now And he is and

49:06

then he gets on a bus and drives away into the distance,

49:08

you know, I mean He's

49:10

not undead. No, he's just I

49:15

Yeah, unclean is a great better way to put

49:18

it Okay, cuz you just threw me

49:20

for my entire understanding of the Callahan character Oh

49:22

no, I just remember I just remember that scene

49:24

where he can't go in the church, you know

49:27

He's unclean, like that's it. He's

49:29

just unclean. It's like he's had

49:31

something the evil within him has

49:33

become You know tangible.

49:35

Yeah, it's just like a blurry space

49:37

between the two Alright now I want

49:40

to address I think it's completely understandable that

49:42

they got where they did not knowing anything

49:45

It's just like there are only so

49:47

many stories in the world. I think now I

49:51

Don't think it makes it at

49:53

the same time. I don't think it makes any sense. I

49:55

think that

49:57

their choices I

50:00

think go back to wanting to make this a

50:04

story where there are no heroes. And

50:07

that one of the things that

50:09

is so compelling about Callahan and you know, I've talked

50:11

about this on the show before is that he's an

50:13

alcoholic who wants to get,

50:16

and there's a, you know, we use

50:18

the word clean, right, for

50:20

recovering from drugs and alcohol. And

50:22

that's one of the, that's the tragedy of Callahan, right,

50:24

is that he was an alcoholic, is

50:27

an alcoholic throughout the book and keeps

50:29

wanting to get sober. And

50:31

then when he's made unclean, that is

50:33

actually when his desire to get sober

50:36

to get clean becomes really a passion

50:38

of his, but he can't do it. Like,

50:40

yeah, keeps relapsing. So in choosing

50:42

to make him kind of a bad

50:45

guy, and I

50:47

don't understand that at all the way that why

50:50

he's a bad guy, the drinking

50:53

the guy's blood, it's,

50:55

it's implied that he's a representative of

50:58

Barlow and Barlow can speak through

51:00

him, that he isn't

51:03

a church, right, or is a church, you

51:05

know, soup kitchen. So he's dealing with holy

51:07

stuff, presumably, like he's in and out. Yeah,

51:11

it's just like they had a plot summary. I

51:13

think the whole thing's confusing. It's a terrible chase

51:16

scene also. Like, it's really stagey and not well

51:18

done in terms of like the direction of that

51:20

chase scene. Yeah. I

51:23

don't know. I just had to jump in

51:25

and talk about my disappointment with the character. Well,

51:27

that's something like I love Father Callahan and Salem's

51:29

lot. Like, one of my favorites because I mean,

51:31

partly because of the alcoholic thing, but also, I

51:34

love I find his struggle with his faith

51:36

really relatable too. And I love that he

51:38

kind of ends up in this limbo zone,

51:40

you know, where, where things could kind

51:42

of go either way, but he's got all these,

51:45

you know, the deck stacked against

51:47

him. Rachel, have you read

51:49

the dark tower? Are we spoiling the whole thing for

51:51

you? I have not made

51:53

it that far, but honestly, it's

51:56

fine. Okay,

52:00

so for the- There's a lot more to it.

52:02

This is- Yeah, like I don't actually think we

52:04

spoiled anything in saying that he shows up. I

52:06

feel like- And you probably already knew that

52:08

in the- I'm not spoiler sensitive. It's about

52:10

the journey. That's right. We'll tell- That's

52:13

okay. From the perspective of someone who does

52:15

not have like the dark tower in your

52:17

mind, how does this stack up for you?

52:19

Like does this make sense? I

52:23

mean, it's a little odd. Like

52:26

I think it's weird to make

52:28

him kind of like the big bad and to kind

52:30

of have him like out there and like they're chasing

52:32

because they're saying like, oh, they're hunting him and

52:35

they've been hunting him. And that's like been their

52:37

whole like quest to kind of continue that.

52:40

It seems a little odd. I

52:43

don't necessarily think it was necessary. I think

52:45

there's something like you were saying, like a lot

52:47

more haunting about him just kind of just

52:50

going off and you never really like

52:52

get full resolution with what kind of happens

52:55

with him. And yeah.

52:57

But that's not like dramatically satisfying, right? Exactly.

53:00

On screen, it doesn't work as well. That's why I

53:02

think that there was a bit of like, there

53:04

was a lot of how do we put this on

53:06

screen, right? Yeah. And I think that's

53:08

why we end up with this bizarre decision because they're

53:11

like, well, the audience needs like a final

53:13

battle or something like that. Yeah. And

53:16

like, what are Ben, like, what are they doing? Like they're

53:18

just like, like, why are they just like wandering around? Like

53:20

we have to give them a purpose. We have to

53:22

give them a mission. Yeah, they

53:24

have a mission. They

53:26

have a mission, which is to go

53:28

back and kill all the remaining vampires

53:30

in town. And in fact, that's referred

53:32

to the head in the final

53:35

part of the Salem slot section

53:38

where they're like in, in the,

53:41

I don't know. I just, I think that

53:43

they got stuck with this. We're going to make everyone a

53:45

bad guy and we're going to make it about war. Yeah.

53:49

So what's ironic is that 2004, we

53:51

had not yet realized that the

53:53

war in Afghanistan, which became the war

53:55

in Iraq, which became just a global war on terror

53:58

Was unwinnable and unfinishable. Rain

54:00

and so in some way that would

54:03

have been more thematically. An.

54:05

Appropriate right path Callahan just

54:07

continue to. Even as a

54:09

bad guy the have to

54:11

have Straker Callahan spirits just

54:13

continuing to haunt the land

54:15

In this being a never

54:17

ending chase. Have. To get

54:19

rid of all their empires. And. That's

54:21

what I think it's a vampire our

54:23

oil and that for as good as

54:25

a good. So interesting about the end

54:27

of the book is like it is

54:29

very chilling that like that the had

54:31

the empire has been neutralized but all

54:33

of the tail as just kind of

54:35

still wagging through the and that's why

54:37

you get like what is it one

54:39

for the roses like such a great

54:41

story because these gonna land of like

54:43

to scattered vampires that exists and if

54:45

he will and it yes it's not

54:47

gonna be com like this huge like

54:49

we don't have another Schrager. That emerges from

54:52

that. but I mean maybe down the road there

54:54

might be and if you have been this is

54:56

kind of venture in you may get sucked in

54:58

been. Well okay another change

55:00

we have is been history with the

55:02

house I think a lot of this

55:05

so instead of like hearing the story

55:07

of you bees death from like I

55:09

think it's like the post man are

55:11

just kind of law or that has

55:13

filtered through the town been actually sees

55:15

this happened and that we see you

55:17

be I die by suicide we see

55:19

his last victim in the tub as

55:21

a and it's all through this like

55:24

magenta filter you know with over I

55:26

saw the are we are ugly billie

55:28

like role in our bellies. Role on

55:30

on. This is so unnecessarily complicated

55:32

and polluted. I do not like

55:35

it. I had trouble following year.

55:37

I don't understand why we needed

55:39

all this. It is so unnecessarily

55:41

convoluted. And I know it. It also has unique

55:44

of got. It. Works against the

55:46

idea of the town as having.

55:48

Like a layer of of corruption that goes

55:50

really deep. And it works

55:52

against the idea that you can

55:54

be corrupted by that evil, not by

55:56

even touching it directly by having it

55:59

be part of the town lord that

56:01

would powerful about van and also been

56:03

like terrific imagination is that. The.

56:05

He doesn't see anything. Rates.

56:08

Are he doesn't if he doesn't see the

56:10

actual event, but that as is in Salem

56:13

thought that we get kings first. An

56:15

exclusive this idea that some places absorb bad

56:18

energy, right? Yeah, Like a bad and good

56:20

wishes of recurring becomes like his recurring kind

56:22

of explanation for all kinds of Hans. Yeah,

56:24

which is that enough bad things happen in

56:27

a place. Which by the way is my

56:29

personal belief as a half of us. enough

56:31

bad things happening in place And it if

56:33

it's like a does that where the first

56:36

battery analogy his remarks about. yeah, yeah, yeah,

56:38

yeah, I'm it. It's stores that bad energy

56:40

like a battery stores energy. And I think

56:43

that's a more powerful idea. Been.

56:45

For him to actually see. The.

56:48

Evil thing happen. Yeah

56:50

yeah says it's permeating through the towns

56:52

and and also it's so bizarre to

56:54

me I don't wanna judge a child's

56:56

trauma response the latest. The door is

56:58

right there. like that much money down

57:00

on the landing for like the entire

57:02

night. and I mean again I'm not

57:04

gonna say when I was on a

57:06

lot of us and I had as

57:08

the what. Is it better know?

57:11

Bizarre? It's I will. Go somewhere else and

57:13

a response at the. Time But I feel

57:15

like we're not judging the child tremors. By

57:17

fudging on writers to answer a

57:19

certain amount of right I'll strong

57:22

Iranians. Yeah, they'll

57:24

also oil so he. Yeah.

57:26

He gets paralyzed with fear. He lays down

57:28

and then he thinks he's hearing. But.

57:31

It's ahead is a his. He thought it

57:33

was hers delays cry. He served his time

57:36

but he didn't know that the kid was

57:38

in the tub. So like after he was

57:40

discovered. Is that right? And then he's okay.

57:42

Yeah, I know, We This is.

57:45

So bizarre is unnecessarily bizarre. and Edmunds is

57:47

like that as already salacious nest that I

57:49

think they just wanted the and it's It's

57:51

not. as soon as. I. Feel

57:53

good like turns a whole thing instead of like

57:56

or on was talking about like this is corruption

57:58

and this evil like that like. more

58:00

just a whole story about guilt. Yeah,

58:03

just kind of how that guilt just

58:05

permeates your entire life. It's an anti-war

58:07

movie. Yeah, yeah. It's an anti-war movie.

58:09

Because then he has the, I got,

58:11

when he said he let a child

58:13

die, I really thought he was talking

58:16

and he lied. I really thought he

58:18

was talking about the mission in Afghanistan

58:20

that he took me a

58:22

little while to realize. But the Marines, yeah. But

58:24

this gets us to actually another weird

58:27

beam breaking thing, which is

58:29

that to turn Susan as

58:31

a vampire into the solace

58:34

of his conscience. Oh, yeah. My

58:36

section for this is called vampires

58:38

are nice. Vampires are

58:41

people too, I think would be a better way to. I

58:43

know. Also, when you become a

58:46

vampire, you get crimp terror. I get

58:48

all the crimp eyeshadow. Best line in

58:50

the movie, best line in

58:53

the movie is when they open the coffin

58:55

and she's there. And I believe it is

58:58

James Cromwell that goes, what monster did this

59:00

to her? And I

59:02

was like, I know the purple

59:04

eyeshadow, the crimped hair. I just

59:06

can't help it. It's like really

59:08

for all eternity, you're stuck

59:10

with half crimped hair. I

59:13

hope she knows in four. If

59:15

anybody could, oh, she probably,

59:18

she's great. She looks just like Danny

59:20

Glick's mom and I kept mixing the

59:22

two up. And I was like, why

59:24

is Susan sad at the phone? Well,

59:27

but we also get Mike Ryerson and

59:29

this moment with Matt, which we're going

59:31

to talk about, but like just

59:34

the old people vampire love. Like there's

59:36

such a human element to these vampires

59:38

that I just do not like. It's

59:40

just anti-war thing. Well, and

59:42

it reminds me of I Am Legend where,

59:46

you know, if you read the book versus the

59:48

movie, like there is a lot more humanism in

59:50

these vampires, but there's also like a sinister evil.

59:53

And if they're going to be more humanistic, that's

59:55

what I want. I want them to be manipulative,

59:58

but for like bad. But

1:00:00

this is just like like I could see

1:00:02

him and Susan like someday working it out

1:00:04

as like a true blood half vampire couple

1:00:06

you know, it's just weird

1:00:08

and speaking of concurrent

1:00:12

vampire stuff Someone

1:00:14

looked at Ian Somerhinder or so what's the

1:00:16

summer holder? So I'm not wrong. I was

1:00:19

like Rob Lowe

1:00:21

meet your new hair. I Was

1:00:24

like I was like this move. That's a

1:00:26

great I think Ian Somerhalder is a really

1:00:28

good touch point My other thing was I

1:00:30

was like every other young man

1:00:32

in Salem's lot. They were like we need an

1:00:34

Eric Balfour type Like

1:00:40

making Floyd and Mike Ryerson

1:00:43

kind of good guys, mm-hmm

1:00:46

I think that one of the missteps in not missteps,

1:00:48

but one of the things that feels

1:00:50

like a a Juvenile

1:00:52

mistake that King made or something a younger

1:00:54

King made is to make Floyd much

1:00:56

more of a parody of like a bad

1:00:59

boyfriend Yeah And I think is in

1:01:01

this more mature work King does a

1:01:03

better job of making everyone giving every

1:01:05

making intelligible everyone's personalities right like making

1:01:07

them more relatable. So I appreciated

1:01:11

making them like be

1:01:13

genuine friends and like having you

1:01:15

know Characters that you would

1:01:17

understand like why Susan would date Floyd at

1:01:20

all right two of the characters that

1:01:22

I felt most connected to in

1:01:24

terms of the larger towns people and I

1:01:26

think it was because they Just gave them

1:01:29

like scenes where they could talk

1:01:31

honestly and like real people and like, you

1:01:33

know And then like Floyd's thing, you know

1:01:35

He has that's a real like that is

1:01:37

actually a very relatable sort of thing is

1:01:39

like this big shot writer comes into town

1:01:41

Yeah, so are your girlfriend I can like

1:01:43

yeah and the fact that they portrayed that

1:01:46

relatively Sympathetically until he started, you know getting

1:01:48

vampire mode. It was I like

1:01:50

found myself kind of rooting for him a

1:01:53

little bit Yeah, yeah, even Mike

1:01:55

with dud and just like all three of them. Yeah,

1:01:57

I did together It felt like okay, that feels like these

1:01:59

are all kids who have grown up together

1:02:01

that actually do have real friendships. Yeah.

1:02:03

Yeah. Whereas like, I feel like the novel

1:02:05

does, I agree with you on it, does

1:02:07

kind of have that like the Tufts and

1:02:10

Christine kind of vibes to it. You know,

1:02:12

they're more, which I enjoy. I still do

1:02:14

really like the novel, but that is a

1:02:16

modern approach to this story that I do

1:02:18

think works. But along the

1:02:20

lines of what you had said, Jen,

1:02:22

about Are the Vampires Nice? Like I

1:02:24

love that observation, but I think that

1:02:26

there's an inconsistency in the storytelling where

1:02:28

sometimes the characters are like reflecting on

1:02:30

their mortality. Mike Ryerson is like, what

1:02:32

happened to me? And that's like heartbreaking

1:02:34

in a vacuum, but

1:02:37

in terms of the larger realm, it's

1:02:39

like they all seem to

1:02:41

sort of react differently when they become vampires.

1:02:43

And like sometimes they have weird powers where

1:02:45

they can climb inside vents, you know? And

1:02:47

like, and

1:02:49

Rob Logos leave me alone, which is

1:02:51

so funny. But anyways, they, but I

1:02:53

think then, like I look at Royce,

1:02:55

who's like the husband of the woman

1:02:57

that Jimmy Cody is banging. I'm

1:03:00

like, does this guy have Captain Trips? Like he

1:03:02

was just hacking up a lung when he became

1:03:04

a vampire. And I'm like, I'm really confused. Like

1:03:06

you get sick, like in that way, when you

1:03:08

become a vampire. Okay, I think we

1:03:10

can all admit that one of the most

1:03:13

satisfying things of any vampire story is

1:03:15

the lore. Like when they give

1:03:17

you the rules for these vampires,

1:03:19

every time you get a vampire

1:03:21

story, at some point there has

1:03:23

to be exposition that's like, okay, this is

1:03:26

how these vampires work. This

1:03:28

is what kills them. This is how

1:03:30

they get made. These are the different

1:03:32

kinds of vampires. These are their powers.

1:03:34

This is what you can do to keep them

1:03:37

away. This movie does none of that.

1:03:39

No, no, they fly and their clothes don't

1:03:41

dissolve through the ceiling, but they do.

1:03:44

Some of them turn into sawdust. Some of them turn

1:03:46

into glitter. Yeah. Yes. Part of me, I

1:03:49

was like, some of them go through all

1:03:51

the past lives. I mean, I kind of

1:03:53

liked the last lives thing with, you know,

1:03:55

Barlow, but then at the same time, I'm

1:03:57

like, well, what is happening? Also, I do

1:03:59

like the choice this is a beam breaking thing

1:04:01

the how to play Barlow

1:04:04

as Wilford Brimley like

1:04:07

yes yes that's

1:04:09

gonna be like an avant-e-culer

1:04:14

old guy kind of

1:04:16

just like would you like a

1:04:18

piece of candy a bowl of

1:04:21

Werther's original hey I've got

1:04:23

a bowl of Werther's original vampire

1:04:26

yes this whole time I've been honestly

1:04:28

if one of us on the pod

1:04:30

is gonna be a vampire it's probably

1:04:33

gonna be me watch your hair if

1:04:35

it gets crimpy I'll know what

1:04:37

it starts crimping as we go on well

1:04:40

I want to talk about the more one

1:04:42

of the ways you could tell a vampire

1:04:44

all the way crimped then it's too

1:04:49

too far to go back you can't

1:04:51

go on for good the head vampire

1:04:54

let's talk about Wilford Brimley

1:04:56

as Rugger hower as Barlow

1:04:58

in our next category heroes

1:05:00

and villains we're gonna have to kill

1:05:02

this fucking clown which

1:05:11

is when we talk about all the people and man

1:05:13

like this the number one thing this thing has

1:05:15

going for it is it's cast aside from just

1:05:17

it's got really great source material so

1:05:20

let's start with Ben mirrors I have

1:05:22

not been historically kind to this character

1:05:24

on this pun because I don't think

1:05:26

he's the best Rob

1:05:29

Lowe is literally the last

1:05:31

person I think

1:05:33

I would yeah

1:05:35

I don't know okay so just a little bit

1:05:37

of background about Rob Lowe I mean if you

1:05:39

don't know who Rob Lowe is he's

1:05:41

beautiful young listeners there are some

1:05:43

young listeners and he I think

1:05:46

the first thing I might have seen him in was the stand

1:05:48

as Nick Andrews this was shortly

1:05:50

after him leaving the West Wing

1:05:52

which I am a huge fan-slash

1:05:54

apologist for he was

1:05:56

also in a show called the lion's den TV

1:05:59

movie called The Perfect Strangers also debuted

1:06:01

in 2004 sadly not the

1:06:04

Gonna say Ron's and no, it was

1:06:07

not bulky which also Kings Dominion And

1:06:10

then Jiminy Glick and Lala would and

1:06:12

dr. Vegas so he was kind of

1:06:14

struggling Vegas to find his

1:06:17

that's what Rob Loechling starring in his shit

1:06:19

like that's called Okay,

1:06:22

I love I love Rob Loe, but

1:06:24

the man should not be doing a drama

1:06:26

He is a very he was very silly whenever

1:06:28

he tries to be dramatic, but he's so funny.

1:06:31

Yes Okay,

1:06:33

so I want to just jump in because West Wing is

1:06:35

another perfect example of 2004 we have to stand up to

1:06:37

the man We

1:06:39

are the only people that are gonna do it in

1:06:42

that earnestness. It's cynicism about

1:06:44

like power You

1:06:46

know But it's also at the

1:06:48

same time like incredibly earnest about its own

1:06:51

ability to do something about that and its

1:06:53

own righteousness I mean, this is

1:06:55

like I mean What you need to know

1:06:57

about this movie is this is if Aaron

1:06:59

Sorkin wrote of a movie? I

1:07:05

like that. Yeah, that is this and I

1:07:07

also think Rob Lowe is good in West Wing

1:07:09

by the way Oh, yeah, I don't think he's

1:07:11

limited to just comedic roles, but I think he

1:07:13

has limits Yeah, I'm

1:07:15

being a little dismissive but He

1:07:18

found a really great vibe there. Yeah, it's

1:07:21

cuz like I love young Rob Lowe too Like

1:07:23

I love some of his younger characters. There's a

1:07:25

movie called there's a movie called Youngblood,

1:07:27

which is like I don't even like sports Yeah,

1:07:29

he does but there's a lot of dramatic stuff

1:07:31

as a young guy. Yeah, it's pretty good Yeah,

1:07:33

he plays this hockey character with Patrick Swayze and

1:07:36

it's like he's great and I love that movie

1:07:38

And so it's like when he's younger It's like

1:07:40

he can almost get away with that kind of

1:07:42

angsty emo vibe that we get here But then

1:07:44

as he gets older, you're right. It's like he's

1:07:46

just he's just he's too beautiful.

1:07:48

He's like that smile He's too charming

1:07:51

to play this kind of I don't know. He

1:07:53

just some alcoholics just don't

1:07:55

age It's like all that. It's like all

1:07:57

the chemicals managed to be preserved

1:08:00

I just he can't pull it off. I don't

1:08:02

believe him like for a second and I think

1:08:04

Randall to your point because I agree with You

1:08:06

I think like His

1:08:09

later career like once he started on

1:08:11

Parks and Rec that is like one

1:08:13

of the best characters It's he's so

1:08:15

good because he has like kind of

1:08:18

spiraled into a parody of his earlier

1:08:20

stuff And that's what

1:08:22

like older Rob Lowe I think does really

1:08:24

really well because he's kind of we've already

1:08:27

seen this earnest young Rob Lowe With

1:08:29

like stars in his eyes about the political

1:08:31

system and it just feels like it's late

1:08:33

Rob Lowe trying to pull off younger Rob

1:08:35

Lowe and I just don't it doesn't quite

1:08:37

work. Maybe it's like I just

1:08:39

don't think he should play dark stuff agreed

1:08:42

Yeah, yeah, Ian Selma holder thing like

1:08:44

that is what that is what they should have

1:08:46

just gotten him Although I guess he's really too

1:08:48

young but no cuz Rob Lowe's too old in

1:08:50

this role Like yes, yeah, also

1:08:52

this bin is kind of a dick Sleep

1:08:55

ball. Oh, they're all dicks That

1:08:58

is the problem with this movie

1:09:00

is that they're all awful and

1:09:02

they're not awful in a surly

1:09:04

interesting ways yeah, like they're just

1:09:06

terrible people and Like

1:09:09

I just I didn't like spending time with

1:09:11

Rob Lowe that Andre Brower is

1:09:13

the only Okay,

1:09:16

Andre Brower and the other land

1:09:18

down the Sutherland eating scenery just with

1:09:20

knife and fork Go for it.

1:09:22

Love it. And then Andre Brower actually

1:09:24

bringing his a game to material that

1:09:26

is this is Unfortunately,

1:09:29

the story of Andre Brower's like film career is

1:09:31

like except for a few places. He's bringing

1:09:33

his a game No, he's always

1:09:35

bringing his a game, but he'd only get some material

1:09:37

worth his a game every once in a

1:09:39

while His agent is I

1:09:41

hope burning in one of the

1:09:43

maybe lesser circles Well,

1:09:46

yeah, cuz he's under a borrower who can do no wrong

1:09:48

like he is Flawless in everything.

1:09:50

I think another actor who I think

1:09:52

really found his comedic chops like later

1:09:55

in his because Captain Holt is another

1:09:57

Just fantastic character. Let's talk about

1:10:00

Matt Burke. I think this

1:10:02

is great casting. Like when I saw that,

1:10:04

I was like, oh yeah, that works really

1:10:06

well. His king

1:10:08

stuff is the mist. He's

1:10:11

known for homicide life on the streets.

1:10:13

He is like Bunny McDougall slash

1:10:15

Francis Sternhagen. Can do no wrong. So

1:10:18

another big change there is that Ben

1:10:20

and Matt like don't really get along

1:10:22

in the book. They're kind of antagonistic.

1:10:26

Is this a good change? I

1:10:29

kind of know. I kind of

1:10:31

I like and I think this is an

1:10:33

Andre Brower thing. He's able to kind of

1:10:35

balance that like, yes,

1:10:38

he likes Ben, but he's also going to be

1:10:40

really honest with Ben and like be like critical

1:10:42

about him in some ways. It's like he's really

1:10:45

good at walking that line between like,

1:10:48

I can be your friend, but I'm also going to call you on your shit

1:10:50

and like be honest with you. That's

1:10:52

a good choice. It's that

1:10:54

Rob Lowe does not have

1:10:57

that same. And so

1:11:00

Andre Brower, impeccable.

1:11:03

And I agree like that scene where

1:11:05

he's like, you know, he doesn't have a heart.

1:11:08

That comes from a, it comes from

1:11:10

a place of love in a weird way, right? Like

1:11:12

he's just a tough love teacher. And you know, Ben

1:11:14

Meares says like, that's one of the reasons he's a

1:11:16

good writer, right? I think is that he was a

1:11:19

good teacher. But then

1:11:21

the way that Rob Lowe interacts with

1:11:23

him is really antagonistic with no love,

1:11:25

like no sense of like, but deep

1:11:27

down, they really respect each other. And

1:11:31

there's also, there's the elephant in

1:11:33

the room, which like this mini

1:11:36

series definitely makes some choices about Matt Burke's

1:11:38

character. Because if I'm remembering correctly in the

1:11:40

novel, like he is a confirmed bachelor, but

1:11:42

they really don't talk about his love life.

1:11:45

I haven't read Salem's lot

1:11:48

in many years. But I was under the impression

1:11:50

watching this that I was like, Oh, yeah, he

1:11:52

was closeted in the book. But

1:11:54

I could be totally wrong. Yeah, it's

1:11:56

it's he's confirmed bachelor. And I think

1:11:59

there's Like sort of a. Maybe.

1:12:01

A lie in that's like and we all know what that. Means

1:12:03

yeah I am, but. It.

1:12:05

Or a no one ever questioned it

1:12:07

or something like that. am. At

1:12:10

the end, I think that's. Accurate

1:12:12

to the timeline in the

1:12:14

original. Tax rate which is

1:12:17

says seven d am. Now

1:12:20

and I actually me because it's

1:12:22

hundred per hour. Man like that

1:12:24

scene with make actually kind of

1:12:26

works. Because you

1:12:28

both believe that it might have been true.

1:12:31

That. There was an attraction that

1:12:33

also you believe that this character

1:12:36

is an upstanding moral person, and

1:12:38

would it in that particular context

1:12:40

would ever. Take. Yeah,

1:12:43

they would just be unthinkable. make it would

1:12:45

be met by the way that you I

1:12:47

mean I guess I'm producer readings as I

1:12:49

had can and for me I guess. But

1:12:51

Lake and he got a bar opposite which

1:12:54

is that Yes, he's gay. Yes, he might

1:12:56

have thought like that's an attractive young man

1:12:58

right? This is never going to doing right

1:13:00

and it's never going to even crosses minded

1:13:02

like an option. Yeah. But then

1:13:05

that's what the Vampire but the

1:13:07

vampire speakers speaks in. This is

1:13:09

Where is the Vampires and this

1:13:11

movie are faithful to the Vampires

1:13:13

in the Burke which is the

1:13:15

Vampires and the Book. Take that's

1:13:18

little bit of nefarious in our

1:13:20

and Us. that little bit of

1:13:22

the of them you know, ah

1:13:24

corruption inside us and speak to

1:13:26

it and. Try to grow it. Noom.

1:13:30

And. That's what seems like actually

1:13:32

would have been something that like

1:13:34

a later king would right into

1:13:36

Salem's lot of is that that

1:13:39

seen. Feels like that. It is

1:13:41

a good update. Honestly, they're not many good

1:13:43

updates. Yeah, I feel

1:13:45

like it just kind of times out of.

1:13:49

Nowhere you know I'm like did I

1:13:51

miss something with the two of them

1:13:53

The oh yeah, I mean there's no

1:13:55

for a few there you know, like

1:13:58

L against I'm like had Canada. It

1:14:00

to wake the he says he is the

1:14:02

they knew each other in town and maybe

1:14:04

there was like a. Yeah.

1:14:06

This again brower with him being

1:14:08

a person. Who noted like a

1:14:11

person who's attracted to men And actually

1:14:13

the honey? where's already kids? I

1:14:15

am pretty sure I'm. Not

1:14:17

into man. I think that he

1:14:19

would probably be legs her. Yeah,

1:14:21

he's got something going on. So

1:14:25

I'll eight. So I that again Selleck.

1:14:27

True to what I know

1:14:30

of, these vampires. And not

1:14:32

taxed yeah which is the in one

1:14:34

of things I think it's and we

1:14:36

can agree as you generally fascinating about.

1:14:38

Vampires is that. They. See

1:14:40

the corruption in Us. And.

1:14:44

Once you make that the that that's

1:14:46

their way and will and there's also

1:14:48

a seductive Elements of Empires issue that

1:14:50

the intersection as yeah yeah. I'm

1:14:53

Rachel. This this Matt my Mike

1:14:55

thing work for you. I

1:14:57

mean, it did feel a little like. Watching

1:14:59

it as like oh yeah, I kinda like oh.

1:15:01

Forgot. About that like it was a little kind of.

1:15:05

Have to like it was shoehorn then it could

1:15:07

easily get works without it to and yeah if

1:15:09

U s also fastest like. If I think about

1:15:11

it too much of my closely at a. Big.

1:15:14

Is that a little bit like homophobic? A little

1:15:16

barely get say like what does it say about

1:15:19

like this part of him is you know nefarious

1:15:21

or of like a clown or away with food

1:15:23

max? yeah it is. yeah or they'll night in

1:15:25

a gay man in the presence of another man

1:15:28

will automatically be a trying right and like we're

1:15:30

at why he like wanted to take him home

1:15:32

like what is a site like but then I

1:15:34

think that. What? Is really? I guess I think

1:15:37

it's as reading way too much into. It

1:15:39

I think of any more I know I'm on.

1:15:41

It implies that are actually yeah yeah I but

1:15:43

I I think it. Is just one

1:15:45

of those things were like I was hinted that in the book

1:15:47

and so this is something that the yeah I don't like. Okay

1:15:49

we can be your super true and we're going to show this

1:15:51

part of it but. They're going to go there.

1:15:53

He and his they simply only ever saw a

1:15:56

baiter listed as and for we can do this.

1:15:58

We couldn't do this in the same. The context

1:16:00

of the tire two thousand and four. I do

1:16:02

think there's a as much as I say like

1:16:04

have like in can see it as a continuation

1:16:07

in the context that he doesn't for think it

1:16:09

is slightly homophobic motivations to put it in their

1:16:11

i'm just saying like adding andrey bar good enough

1:16:13

or the I one hundred and pull it off

1:16:15

that he pulls off as seen that they didn't

1:16:18

think much. About Right might give the

1:16:20

depth to it that makes it

1:16:22

not homophobic but the related there

1:16:24

are have a success. And

1:16:27

that yes, I think that's. A perfect way

1:16:29

to success If it says i do

1:16:31

ya think Andres performance their. Makes.

1:16:34

It and actually a little. Bit more of a humanizing

1:16:36

scene where as in the wrong. Character

1:16:38

the wrong hands that could have come off

1:16:40

very sleazy and grow he you give it

1:16:42

to rob. Lowe and who knows what's gonna

1:16:44

happen. And. Also are is

1:16:46

he. On their behalf. And

1:16:49

yes well as let's talk about

1:16:51

Susan Norton so her such an

1:16:53

and quite a few clean things.

1:16:55

She was also like everyone else

1:16:57

in the world and nightmares and

1:16:59

dreamscape she was just recently and

1:17:01

pet cemetery bloodlines and she was

1:17:03

and under the down am known

1:17:06

for pump up the Volume and

1:17:08

American Psycho at least that's her

1:17:10

Jin can and so me being

1:17:12

me I in us out think

1:17:14

season isn't best characters but I

1:17:16

love this. Scene. Where see

1:17:18

battles with her mother and see like this struggle

1:17:20

to how to get out of her house and

1:17:23

really love that scene. And.

1:17:25

The we don't get that here. Are. We

1:17:27

Missing Nurse And how do we feel

1:17:29

about this version of Susan Norton? I

1:17:33

got enough. I'm. Yeah, as far

1:17:35

as she's fine, I isn't. I

1:17:38

don't like that that the the

1:17:40

relationship between her and Ben. I

1:17:42

don't. Expect. Them in Missouri is

1:17:44

it's yeah, it, it's not require it's yeah,

1:17:46

it's like yeah, it's the stuff. When I

1:17:48

think about the book salem's Lot the stuff

1:17:50

that stands out about Susan is the relationship

1:17:53

with her mother which was excised your which

1:17:55

I mean I can understand to some degree

1:17:57

deserve like it is. not

1:17:59

comes which makes it weird. Like there's

1:18:01

like a little bit of a The dad is right? The

1:18:03

dad is completely gone. The dad is completely gone. Yeah.

1:18:06

But then I think about like how scary the scene is when

1:18:09

the first time you see her as a vampire, which is one of the

1:18:11

scariest scenes in the book to me. And you

1:18:13

know, we don't really get that either because she

1:18:15

gets to, you know, help himself actualize. Yes. It's

1:18:19

such a, that is the most bizarre scene

1:18:21

in the movie, I swear. Because also there

1:18:23

she's just standing at the door. They're just

1:18:25

like having a long conversation. It's like I

1:18:27

blinked. Yeah. It's like I blinked.

1:18:29

And I'm like, okay, how did we get here? You know? Yeah.

1:18:32

So yeah, I'd like to mention that, but not much to do

1:18:34

here. Yeah. Sorry. There's

1:18:36

also like the scene before it that made me very angry, which is when they're

1:18:39

in the

1:18:41

house and they find all the vampires sleeping and they

1:18:43

go through into some of them are children and they

1:18:45

go through and stake them. And then they get to

1:18:47

Susan with a great line, what monster did this to

1:18:50

her? And I know he's talking about the hair and

1:18:52

Ben can't do it. And

1:18:55

they're like, you know what? It has been a really tough

1:18:58

day. Yeah. Because they might all

1:19:00

wake up. It's like, but you just kill

1:19:02

the children. You just take a bunch of

1:19:04

kids, you know? But I love how they're

1:19:06

all like, yeah, you know? Yeah.

1:19:09

You're right. All out of state. I

1:19:11

can't even. I know. Well, let's,

1:19:14

speaking of can't even, I don't

1:19:16

know if that works

1:19:18

totally, but Mark Petrie, this

1:19:24

is another big change. Terrible person.

1:19:27

Yeah. He's so eloquent. Like he's fucking

1:19:29

selling drugs on the school bus or something.

1:19:31

From a broken home. He is. You know

1:19:33

what happened? He's a little dick. He's like

1:19:35

a jerk. Well, that's a small kid. Well,

1:19:38

that's a small kid. That's a little asshole. But

1:19:41

not my Mark Petrie, not from the

1:19:43

book. Yeah. Well, okay. That's

1:19:45

my question. Yeah. What do

1:19:47

we think? Do we like little shit, Mark Petrie? Love

1:19:49

him. No, I have no strong

1:19:52

opinion. Really? He's a bad boy. You

1:19:55

know me, I love a bad boy. I

1:19:57

dare you. I like the... That

1:20:00

the bus drivers through some kids on the side of

1:20:02

the road when there are plenty of thrones. Yeah, Damien's

1:20:04

like me. I can. They do not seem. So now

1:20:06

they can fix it. I didn't know that they can.

1:20:09

I saw this is like apparently that bus

1:20:11

drivers a private operation where he owns the

1:20:13

school bus. Zero. I any Haberman of

1:20:15

are on. Sale in Iowa. Lazy labour

1:20:17

was changing my was any like

1:20:19

a little jerk. Is.

1:20:22

Not good for this story. I

1:20:26

think with Mark is one of my.

1:20:29

I. Think he might be on my favorite characters of

1:20:31

all. Of Kings young people because he's in

1:20:33

a related if I with Henry. It's like

1:20:35

I moved around a lot as a kid

1:20:38

I was like an indoor kid am Mark

1:20:40

in the book does that. Great is the

1:20:42

great thing where he figures out he needs

1:20:44

to beat up the bullying orders have them

1:20:46

leave him alone which is that bet M

1:20:48

E I think every nerds dream is to

1:20:51

be able to pull that particular plan off

1:20:53

great. And you know any the little adult

1:20:55

which by the way a lot of only

1:20:57

children. Again speaking as an only child nerd

1:20:59

myself he have to kind of become like

1:21:01

little adults. Rate. In one of

1:21:03

the interesting things in the book is it. He's

1:21:06

a little adult, any kind of takes care

1:21:09

of himself all of this time, and then

1:21:11

thing in in been has realized like, oh,

1:21:13

no, he's a. Lake

1:21:15

know I need to return. I need

1:21:18

to let him have a childhood because

1:21:20

he's been completely robbed of his childhood.

1:21:22

and then again, like that's why that

1:21:24

book is about innocence, right? And I'm

1:21:27

and I think that this. Book turns

1:21:29

him into a. Soldier.

1:21:31

Which is another have a boss innocence but

1:21:33

again like are taking stuff in the book

1:21:35

and just like perverting it into this lake.

1:21:37

Very simplistic and a warm their preventing it

1:21:40

into it's as simple as that rather than

1:21:42

I do love that just pulling that one

1:21:44

word out of the bargain making that thing

1:21:46

down here. Any.

1:21:48

Other thoughts on Mark before because

1:21:50

we got three big big big

1:21:52

dogs to talk about. Ah, we've

1:21:54

already talked about Father Callahan James

1:21:56

Cromwell this is always my my

1:21:58

head Canon Father Com. I was

1:22:00

gonna say this headcanon is fucking hilarious. Yes.

1:22:03

I mean he's just the perfect. Oh,

1:22:05

he's a perfect Actor. Is

1:22:07

that what you're saying? Like yeah that no,

1:22:09

I mean I I pictured father Callahan is

1:22:11

James Cromwell before I knew who James Cromwell

1:22:13

was like, I think I Just

1:22:16

wanted to say Jen the movies that you listed on the

1:22:18

outline Movies that James Cromwell

1:22:20

has been in is so fucking funny LA confidential.

1:22:23

Hell yeah Babe

1:22:26

babe to pig in the city revenge of

1:22:28

the nerds to nerds in paradise revenge of

1:22:30

the nerds three Succession,

1:22:33

I love that Nerds

1:22:38

in paradise is one of the most formative films

1:22:40

of my entire life I watched it 3,000 times

1:22:42

as a child and it is for many years

1:22:44

the only way I knew James Cromwell but now

1:22:46

I I have to say I

1:22:49

have issues with how they Already

1:22:51

talked about the way that this character is depicted I

1:22:54

think he is so fucking good in

1:22:56

this like scenes when you just let

1:22:58

him have a scene with Donald Sutherland,

1:23:00

right or Or

1:23:02

the guy who plays Ed who I

1:23:04

think was probably a local actor Those

1:23:07

scenes are so good. Like they're just like

1:23:10

really well acted scenes by like two veterans

1:23:12

But you know, I think and James Cromwell

1:23:14

does a lot of like genre He does

1:23:16

a lot of like junky trash movies like

1:23:19

species and stuff or species too I don't

1:23:21

think he's in the first one and um

1:23:24

Like so I've always loved that about him

1:23:26

is that he can do high art and

1:23:28

then he always does kind of like junky

1:23:30

trash But he's always like the same level

1:23:32

of quality. He's so lived in in every

1:23:34

role So I will say like watching this

1:23:36

he was a huge stand out for me

1:23:39

not in terms of how the character is done but

1:23:41

in terms of inhabiting the character and Creating

1:23:43

in my mind like at least in terms

1:23:45

of how he engages with other people I

1:23:47

found him to be a very like warm

1:23:49

inviting Three-dimensional character, which is

1:23:52

why it is really jarring when he just

1:23:54

suddenly becomes evil, right? Yeah You know, why

1:23:56

is he in the soup kitchen if he's evil? Why is he in

1:23:58

the soup? I wish

1:24:00

I wish it would be like they would

1:24:02

follow that more like maybe he's somehow like

1:24:04

praying on these People

1:24:06

they're like but they don't they don't give

1:24:09

that so I was such a

1:24:11

surprise to me when they went like I thought

1:24:13

he was running from Rob Lowe because Rob Lowe

1:24:15

attacked Like

1:24:19

one would run from someone who attacked

1:24:21

you right like I

1:24:23

didn't get at all until the end And

1:24:25

kind of till even when the fucking

1:24:27

like damn you been mirrors Like

1:24:30

that what does that even mean? Like

1:24:33

why is he saying damn you he's they're

1:24:35

the ones in hell like that's such a

1:24:37

strange It's a specific word choice and why

1:24:39

that word choice But even

1:24:41

then like we are all we know about the

1:24:43

future one is that he works in a soup

1:24:45

kitchen So when it becomes clear that

1:24:48

they're like, oh, yeah, he's the one we have to

1:24:50

kill Something like that It's

1:24:52

why it is. Yeah, what has he been doing?

1:24:54

Has he what has he been doing between in

1:24:56

this time that makes him still evil? Because

1:24:59

even the fact that he you know is the voice of Barlow

1:25:03

From what they've shown us. I was like, all right.

1:25:05

Well, maybe that's like the one time. He's the voice

1:25:07

of Barlow like it's because

1:25:10

it anyway James

1:25:12

Cromwell. Yes win. Yeah, I

1:25:15

yeah what I love about What

1:25:17

he brings to the role same way that Andre brings

1:25:20

to the role of Matt is I feel like we

1:25:22

actually Do get a little bit of

1:25:24

that kind of like the inner conflict and what

1:25:26

you know his alcoholism and like kind of battling

1:25:29

What he wants to be versus what he's going

1:25:31

through and just kind of deciding where he's

1:25:33

and I don't think Another you

1:25:35

know a lesser actor could have pulled that off

1:25:38

or brought that to the performance Yeah, and

1:25:40

I don't think it's on the page even

1:25:42

necessarily. So kind it's yeah,

1:25:45

not even Not

1:25:47

even Cromwell though can really earn that turn

1:25:49

to villainy because it's no agreed But like prior

1:25:52

to that like he adds so much to

1:25:54

that character. That's not in the dialogue You

1:25:56

know, yes, it's in his actions. You see

1:25:58

him like taking dreams here and there,

1:26:00

but there's so much in his performance that tells

1:26:03

us that, you know, what

1:26:05

he's struggling with internally that we never see otherwise.

1:26:07

So I mean, we did not need all

1:26:09

that blush to make it. That's

1:26:11

true to like show that he's been drinking

1:26:13

or something. It was a little

1:26:15

heavy. I love his detail. You and I

1:26:17

love his detail. You included, Jen, that at

1:26:19

the time of production, James Cromwell was married

1:26:21

to Julie Cobb, who who played Bonnie Sawyer

1:26:24

in the previous adaptation of Salem's Latin 1979.

1:26:26

That's such a fun detail. I know.

1:26:28

I had no idea. We've got to talk about Rick

1:26:30

or Howard. Yeah, I mean, that's Wikipedia. Yeah, we

1:26:32

will. Because I indeed can say. Yeah. Let's

1:26:34

talk about Sutherland. Yeah, let's

1:26:37

talk about Sutherland, who is our

1:26:39

Richard Straker. This again, just feels

1:26:41

like perfect casting. That is my question.

1:26:44

Is this perfect casting or what? I

1:26:46

think this is his only king thing

1:26:48

also. I don't

1:26:51

know if it's perfect. I don't either. I

1:26:53

think I, awesome. I love him.

1:26:55

And I, again, would watch a whole movie

1:26:57

of this character. I don't think

1:27:00

this character is Straker. Not

1:27:03

in the book. And that's fine. That's

1:27:05

fine. You know, and it's a choice.

1:27:08

But he's because the whole Straker's whole

1:27:10

thing is that he's serving Barlow. Like

1:27:13

he's his lieutenant. This

1:27:15

is not a lieutenant. This is a

1:27:17

big bad. His

1:27:20

business partner. Like it feels like

1:27:22

they're on equal planes to me. Which is why.

1:27:25

Which is why. And I think he's

1:27:27

playing a big bad. I

1:27:30

would believe it if there was, in

1:27:32

fact, because Rucker Howers, Wilford Brimley as

1:27:34

a vampire. Like, I don't,

1:27:37

you don't need, in this version

1:27:39

of Salem's lot, you don't

1:27:41

almost need Barlow. Yeah,

1:27:43

you don't need this. Or Straker.

1:27:45

Like just have him be the same character.

1:27:47

I think that's super interesting and I agree.

1:27:51

Because it is so, it's almost

1:27:53

underwhelming and anticlimactic when Mark

1:27:56

bests Straker and then they just find his body later,

1:27:59

like Drained of Blood. It's like, oh, I thought he

1:28:01

was more than that the way he was portrayed and

1:28:03

I I so yeah, I agree

1:28:05

with you there I But

1:28:07

I still you know, and I think we'd all agree

1:28:09

it's like but he's a delight like yeah He spices

1:28:12

up every scene But I can't I have to say

1:28:14

I had a realization like halfway through the

1:28:16

movie and I was never able to shake it Which

1:28:18

is that with that beard and with

1:28:21

the red coat or scarf or

1:28:23

whatever he was wearing and that smile Tim

1:28:26

Allen not just Santa Claus. He's Tim Allen

1:28:28

in the Santa Claus and I Yeah,

1:28:32

I love it for it to do that

1:28:34

character as like evil Santa Claus. Yeah, not

1:28:36

let that mean it's not work He's

1:28:40

so good my

1:28:42

probably fit one of my favorite scenes the

1:28:44

entire four hours is when Susan

1:28:48

and Mark get to the

1:28:50

house and the way he plays. Oh

1:28:52

my god. Are you going to rob?

1:28:56

Like it is delicious It

1:28:58

is so fun the fact that

1:29:00

my favorite scenes of the whole movie It is

1:29:03

it is I think maybe my absolute favorite scenes

1:29:05

It's not in the book and it's played it

1:29:08

is like a choice that actually works Even

1:29:10

though his his characters are a little too

1:29:12

broad You know for

1:29:14

Straker, but would have worked

1:29:16

in the book I think too and when

1:29:19

he's just like playing this kind of like and then the

1:29:21

turn to like oh What

1:29:23

what is this? Hey you have here? Oh, it's

1:29:25

fake and then he like any and he like

1:29:27

it's so good It's so good. Like I just

1:29:29

love it. I love that. Are you here to

1:29:32

rob me? Take whatever you want The

1:29:35

scene the scene when Mark sort of best sim in

1:29:37

the book to me is is such like a thrilling

1:29:39

thrilling And so yeah,

1:29:41

I was underwhelmed with how all of that played out

1:29:44

I think that was just a consequence of like

1:29:46

streamlining for the for the series like based on

1:29:48

the book But I was I was bummed out

1:29:50

by that because I felt like the character sort

1:29:52

of you know It kind of just disappears in

1:29:54

the story Well, And

1:29:56

so this is a Buffy The Vampire Slayer

1:29:58

The movie. Reunion and

1:30:01

that movie also stars Paul Reubens

1:30:03

in one of the best

1:30:05

Das I've ever seen. Nori out of

1:30:07

for. Well. Here's the Superbowl question:

1:30:09

Who in this movie would we

1:30:12

replace with Paul Reubens to do

1:30:14

this? Said that. I mean, they

1:30:16

might. Have. Been

1:30:18

mirrors Honestly that by I love cells

1:30:20

are overloaded of yeah he would be

1:30:22

a good cody own without be great

1:30:24

he be a good Larry Crockett. To. A

1:30:27

non aid and on sex pest

1:30:29

doctor cody yeah yeah playing against

1:30:31

tie for Paul Reubens. but yes.

1:30:36

Also are ip love. And know I

1:30:38

was so like i don't get moved by

1:30:40

celebrity deaths too often but like I'd that

1:30:42

one really gung am senator like. The lady and

1:30:45

the idea of him it is. A

1:30:47

Doctor Cody is a more of a

1:30:50

straight doctor Cody again as her legs

1:30:52

and. Net net same anyway.

1:30:54

you know the i mean I'm like

1:30:56

having him not be as. You.

1:30:59

Know that dating his patients and having him be more

1:31:01

like a doctor Cody in the book Bits I look

1:31:03

for when Paul Reubens played straight. I love I love

1:31:05

it when. He when he was just. Like in give

1:31:07

you the great Actor and so like have you

1:31:10

seen them. Have you seen like during

1:31:12

wartime the told salon some the is fantastic

1:31:14

Emma like that is I'll probably one of

1:31:16

the last for matter girls he played and

1:31:18

it's a very intense very dark room at

1:31:20

the top movie on depending on your tolerance

1:31:23

for thoughtful on. I know that really a

1:31:25

yeah this idea of him doing it because

1:31:27

he plays the skeptic great. So Paul Reubens

1:31:29

in in a straight role playing as as

1:31:31

skeptics who has to kind of be brought

1:31:33

over to this. Book like. Wild

1:31:35

way of like looking at the world

1:31:37

man oh yeah some of these and

1:31:39

of pc person I might have been

1:31:41

well okay let's talk about our our

1:31:43

big big bad and decide if it

1:31:45

works for us co so we've got

1:31:47

Rutger Hauer who is just one of

1:31:49

those answers that he just feels creepy

1:31:52

now just you know that own apps

1:31:54

you know he's in the hits or

1:31:56

he's in Blade Runner. He is the

1:31:58

hobo and hobo with a shotgun. And

1:32:00

which you know is problematic language

1:32:02

now. Boy, I also found that

1:32:04

this is fun little anecdote from

1:32:06

one of Raw Blows memoirs. And.

1:32:09

He's not named in this, but it's

1:32:11

pretty obvious. Heard it is. You know, Rob

1:32:13

Lowe doesn't have a lot of the

1:32:15

Empire Tales under his belt, so he

1:32:17

says or he writes i want starting a

1:32:20

big many theories that culminated with the

1:32:22

villain giving a two page monologue trying to

1:32:24

goad me into killing him. The actor

1:32:26

playing the bad guy wanted to add lip

1:32:28

his own versions of the movie ending

1:32:30

speech. Although he was playing a vampire,

1:32:32

he went into a soliloquy about being a

1:32:35

cowboy doctor with not embarrassed to fit

1:32:37

Sufis. After a very tense negotiation, the actor.

1:32:39

With forced to sit can a self

1:32:41

penned opus and stick to the original

1:32:43

script, there was only one problem he

1:32:45

hadn't bothered to learn. It. Almost

1:32:47

an hour logos on to say that because

1:32:49

there wasn't time for Howard a memorize the

1:32:52

lines organically, his characters monologue had to be

1:32:54

written on cue cards and placed next to

1:32:56

low said. Be. You know why he has

1:32:58

the by hooker or parker i'm an hour

1:33:00

out as a hot girl has the balls

1:33:03

to do that which is because he fuck

1:33:05

an ad libbed the most one of the

1:33:07

most iconic lines in cinema and Blade Runner

1:33:09

like ears over a year in the rain

1:33:11

for it's like I'd have imagined him during

1:33:14

that and every single year as a totally

1:33:16

like every time he is Eric see like

1:33:18

you know I did as like the Tears

1:33:20

in the Rain monologue so oh baby daughter

1:33:22

were wearing it. Looks

1:33:25

like he might kill you at any moment. To the

1:33:27

and. I go on a slow

1:33:29

like don't wear their I Will I love Rutger, Hauer

1:33:31

or Fucker but it's like. I

1:33:33

don't have long as it is celebrity couple of.

1:33:35

Excessive with himself, I

1:33:38

I just zone. I. think i'm

1:33:40

you your question are you for your g with

1:33:42

we like this or do we prefer the nosferatu

1:33:44

version and to be honest i think i prefer

1:33:46

the not nosferatu version like i love i love

1:33:48

rucker but like the scene with like him and

1:33:51

died and a dump like at those kind of

1:33:53

seems i don't need that you know i don't

1:33:55

need like the wilford brimley you know what i

1:33:57

mean like i don't need that approach i think

1:33:59

is scarier to have Stryker be

1:34:01

that character, the smooth talker, and

1:34:03

then to have like Barlow just

1:34:05

be kind of like a vicious,

1:34:08

blood-hungry beast, you know? Yeah. That

1:34:10

to me is a little spookier. And correct

1:34:12

me if I'm wrong, but Rucker Howard has an

1:34:15

accent. And

1:34:17

you know, Barlow doesn't really. Like,

1:34:20

he is weirdly like

1:34:22

flattened. He doesn't even

1:34:25

have like generic European accent,

1:34:27

which he should. Yeah. Well,

1:34:30

yeah, I think that would make sense and it

1:34:32

tracks for the story. But I agree. There's

1:34:35

like a flatness to him in this a

1:34:37

little bit, which is unfortunate because, you know,

1:34:40

he's on paper. That's incredible casting. Right.

1:34:44

Yeah. I mean, they're also like

1:34:46

when you're up against the rest

1:34:48

of this cast, when like he's playing off

1:34:50

of Sutherland is like, it's just, there's no,

1:34:52

there's no comparison. If it had

1:34:54

fallen apart from me. I think we would have

1:34:56

gotten a better movie. Yeah. I

1:34:59

even liked it. Like what you were saying compared

1:35:01

to like Toby Hooper's or even like Midnight Mass.

1:35:03

Like I just I like

1:35:06

I don't feel scared by Barlow. Right.

1:35:09

Like, yeah, I love I love the movie, but

1:35:11

the main vampire in Midnight Mass is like the

1:35:13

dream. Like, yeah, that's what that's

1:35:16

like my idea of like a great Barlow to.

1:35:18

Yeah. Yeah. Like I want

1:35:20

to be scared by this. I want to feel the age of this

1:35:23

character to feel the weight of Barlow.

1:35:25

Yeah. Like just feel like the weight of

1:35:28

like how long he's existed and like these

1:35:30

other communities and I just don't get it

1:35:32

here. It feels very forced. Like at the end

1:35:34

how you're like we see all these other he

1:35:36

transforms into all these other people. It's

1:35:38

like what what are these other shapes he's

1:35:40

taken? Are these other souls? Like what is it?

1:35:42

I think they were trying to portray like because

1:35:45

there was, you know, people in vintage clothing like

1:35:47

yeah, other nations. So I think that was like

1:35:49

their attempt to show the history. The

1:35:51

United Nations. Yeah. It

1:35:53

was the Terminator two of it all. You

1:35:55

know. Yeah. Yeah.

1:35:58

It does feel kind of like. Oh, they had

1:36:00

this great idea for casting and they just kind

1:36:03

of had to run with it. You know, also

1:36:05

it feels like a little bit like

1:36:07

more beholden to the original novel

1:36:09

than we necessarily need. You know,

1:36:12

I am all for a good change to

1:36:14

the source material. And I do think that

1:36:17

the Nosferatu version and the 79 miniseries is

1:36:19

a good change. And that's what we remember

1:36:21

that and not Jiminy Glick

1:36:23

that and Danny Glick in the room.

1:36:27

Could you imagine him being a vampire just like messing

1:36:30

with Mark Petrie? All right. Well,

1:36:32

Ana, you mentioned the

1:36:34

dogs earlier. And is

1:36:36

there anyone else in this cast we want to shout out before

1:36:38

we move on? I just talked about the dogs,

1:36:40

right? Yes. Yeah. Talk

1:36:43

about the dogs. So as in the book, a dog dies. The

1:36:46

choice to give the dog to

1:36:48

the bus driver

1:36:50

who had been changed from

1:36:52

the original to be a

1:36:54

fairly sympathetic Vietnam vet with

1:36:56

PTSD is like a weird

1:36:58

one. Weird

1:37:00

use of that character. Weird use of the

1:37:02

character. And again, in a later King

1:37:05

work, we might have gotten that version

1:37:07

of the character, right? Which

1:37:09

is a more sympathetic one. Whereas in the book is

1:37:12

a pretty, he's a, you know, he's

1:37:14

an asshole who has,

1:37:16

who's also vaguely child molestee.

1:37:19

Yeah. You get those

1:37:21

kinds of guys. You get those fives and not

1:37:23

only do they make the dog his and then

1:37:25

kill the dog and have him show grief about

1:37:27

it, which is like, Oh yeah. I mean, dogs

1:37:29

dying in general can't do it because I know

1:37:32

this one's coming. It's okay. They then give him

1:37:34

a puppy. I guess. And another

1:37:36

one. And

1:37:38

did y'all notice in one of the opening scenes,

1:37:40

which actually disturbed me more than anything else, they're

1:37:43

showing like the detritus of the town.

1:37:45

The town is deserted. There is a

1:37:48

dog wandering around with

1:37:50

a leash on. Ooh, I

1:37:52

miss that. Which is

1:37:54

heartbreaking to me more than any, like

1:37:57

I can handle dogs running around.

1:38:00

having lost their owners. A

1:38:02

dog with a leash implies an

1:38:04

owner looking for them. Or

1:38:06

something happened to their owner. Or something happened to

1:38:08

the owner. And also having a

1:38:10

leash seems dangerous to me. Like if you

1:38:12

get caught on something. And I- It's

1:38:15

effective. It's effective, I don't like it. I want

1:38:17

it to not be there. And

1:38:19

I have to imagine that that's

1:38:21

his puppy, now fully grown, having

1:38:24

been abandoned from almost birth. Almost

1:38:28

birth, I don't know why. Why

1:38:30

did they do this? Why did

1:38:32

they have him then? It's a not bad enough to have

1:38:34

a dog die, but then he has a puppy and the

1:38:36

puppy goes out and gets like weirded out by the vampires.

1:38:39

And the bus driver comes out and he's like, oh, it's

1:38:41

okay, come in, it's a little cold outside. Like,

1:38:46

don't do this to me, don't do this to

1:38:49

the dog. I can handle people, as people know,

1:38:51

I think Randall and I have that in common. Anything

1:38:53

you want to a person? Yeah. Leave

1:38:56

the dogs alone. They're good boys.