0:00

And now the

0:03

low post. Welcome to the

0:05

Low Post podcast as we head into

0:07

Thanksgiving. Hopefully this podcast helps

0:10

some of you survive.

0:12

What is traditionally not the best travel

0:14

day of the year. We

0:16

are going to start in the Eastern Conference.

0:18

We had technical difficulties with our guests. So

0:20

you're just stuck with me for the first part

0:23

of this podcast. The Boston Celtics

0:25

in the Milwaukee Bucks highlight

0:27

the next five days in the NBA as we all

0:29

eat our turkey and some of you normal

0:32

people watch football, I guess is what people do

0:34

on Thanksgiving. I do not do that, but I

0:36

hear that that's a thing. But Boston, Milwaukee

0:39

Wednesday night.

0:41

Our first clash of the Titans in

0:43

the East the two teams who

0:46

revamped their rosters in very very

0:48

dramatic ways centered around Drew Holiday who

0:50

gets his first chance at a revenge

0:52

game against the Bucks now that

0:55

he's a key starter and glue guy and

0:57

just the perfect guy the perfect guy for any good

0:59

team.

1:00

Drew Holiday, by the way, one of my biggest mysteries that I'm

1:02

still trying to solve

1:03

as I self-ban on talking about

1:06

James Harden and the Clippers for at least a week and now

1:08

break that ban is what are the Clippers

1:10

offer for Drew Holiday? Did

1:12

they throw everything in the kitty? Cuz that

1:15

guy would have been obviously the perfect fit.

1:17

I hope to solve that

1:18

for me and for you in the

1:20

next couple of weeks, but the Drew

1:22

Holiday revenge game is here in the Bucks before

1:25

we talk about the Celtics alarm bell lost last

1:27

night in Charlotte to the Mighty Hornets. Lamella ball

1:29

playing really well, by the way, in in

1:32

some ways defensively. It's it's

1:34

still a little scattershot. Let's say the

1:36

Bucks.

1:38

Sneakily 10 and 4. It's been

1:40

a little raggedy

1:41

defensively. They're 24th. That's not going to be good

1:43

enough.

1:44

Now they are getting absolutely

1:47

roasted on mid-range jumpers. So so

1:49

perhaps there's some bad luck baked

1:51

into their defense. Obviously, we all know

1:53

that they need kept their perimeter defense in the Dame

1:56

trade and Chris

1:58

Middleton has been in and out of the lineup. knew that

2:00

this would be an issue, but with Giannis and Brook

2:02

Lopez, two of the 10 best defense players in the league

2:04

and Brook Lopez ever since the players had

2:06

a quiet mutiny against Adrian

2:08

Griffin's revamped defensive scheme and went

2:10

back to the Brook Lopez, you hang back in the paint.

2:13

That dude is like obliterating everything

2:16

around the basket. You should have a

2:18

defense that's better than 24th with

2:20

just, just those two guys, like those two guys

2:22

and three perimeter

2:24

players. And it's pretty right now. You should

2:26

be better than that. But fourth on offense,

2:29

the Dame Giannis thing starting to happen.

2:32

It's not always smooth

2:33

against Dallas the other day. And what was one of the best

2:35

games of the season, just most entertaining

2:38

games of the season. They ran 18 pick

2:40

and rolls together. That was their most in any

2:42

game this season. Dame has propped up

2:44

the crunch time offense as expected. The Bucks are

2:46

scoring 125 points per 100 possessions in the

2:50

last five minutes of close games. That's top five in

2:52

the NBA. And Giannis, don't

2:55

look now. All the MVP

2:57

talk is Jokic, Tatum and Bead. Are we

2:59

doing the centers thing again? Is Luca buttoning to

3:01

it with the Mads at nine and five? Giannis

3:04

just out here being like, Hey, I'm averaging 30, 10 and

3:06

five again. Anyone, anyone 30,

3:09

10 and five, I'm shooting 67% on twos. His, his pick and

3:11

rolls with

3:14

Brook Lopez and Bobby Portis, the kind of call

3:17

them four or five pick and rolls.

3:19

It's become like an unstoppable play. Everyone

3:21

tries to go under it.

3:22

And it's harder to do than it sounds like,

3:25

you know, you want to go under and let Giannis shoot, but

3:28

they set the screen solo. And he's so

3:31

fast that if you don't beat him to

3:33

the spot, and even if you do sometimes,

3:35

he's just going to roll through you to

3:37

the basket. And if you switch, there's

3:40

just no center in the league. He's just gotten so

3:43

good at sort of crisscrossing and

3:45

slithering around slower centers for layups.

3:48

And the pick and roll he has with Conatin is

3:50

the screener has become a deadly play for him. And in

3:53

the four one pick and roll with him and Dame, we'll

3:56

get there. And now we finally get to see these two teams

3:58

match up. Great.

3:59

Williams is gone.

4:02

Al Horford is still around. How and

4:04

with whom? Al Horford's

4:06

not starting. Are they gonna start him in this game? The

4:08

Boston kind of before the season

4:10

talked about, hey we might

4:13

have multiple starting lineups depending

4:15

on matchups. That hasn't been the case and in fact their starting

4:17

lineup is like laughably amazing.

4:20

The best lineup in the NBA plus

4:23

104 in 176 minutes together. White holiday the

4:25

Jays and KP. 124 offensive rating. 96

4:32

defensive rating. Like that's a joke.

4:34

That lineup is so good. We'll talk about it in a second. That's

4:36

a joke. How do the Celtics defend Giannis?

4:40

How do Giannis and Brook Lopez

4:42

defend this five-out monster

4:45

that the Celtics have built? One of

4:47

the secrets of which is

4:49

there's no like a perimeter

4:52

player that you can stash your center on

4:55

if you want to have a wing guard Porzingis to take

4:57

away his pick and pop threes and all that. Your

4:59

center is just kind of half to guard Porzingis.

5:01

Who you gonna put him on? Derek White? Jalen Brown?

5:04

Like Brook Lopez is

5:06

a pretty malleable defender but not like that. And

5:09

who's Giannis gonna guard? You know traditionally the the Bucks

5:12

have liked to have him as a backline

5:14

defender. Well there's no

5:16

backline with the Celtics. Everyone is around

5:18

the three-point arc. He's gonna have to guard a perimeter

5:20

player. I think it's just a fascinating matchup and

5:23

we finally get to see it. The Celtics

5:25

are a team I haven't

5:27

talked about too much so I want to

5:29

start with them.

5:32

They are fifth in offense and

5:35

third in defense and I mentioned they're starting five which

5:37

is absolutely ridiculous. They

5:40

have the best net rating in the league plus 10.6

5:43

per hundred possessions and lest

5:45

you think that is just a product of their

5:47

41-point shellacking of the Pacers

5:49

a couple weeks ago. They have blowout

5:51

wins over the Wizards. Fine. The

5:54

Wizards are hard

5:56

to watch. It's not great.

6:00

They blew out Knicks. They blew out Philly. They won

6:02

by 10 on the road without two

6:04

of their starters. They've got a bunch of Impressive

6:07

wins and that third in defense

6:11

I'm guilty of it too when we talk about the Celtics

6:13

we talked mostly about their offense I'm obsessed

6:15

with their offense when I talk when I watch the Celtics

6:17

I Watched their offense more

6:19

closely than their defense because I want to see

6:22

the spacing is sexy The three-pointers

6:24

are sexy. No one shoots more threes in Boston when

6:26

it when it we've seen it last year when the when the threes

6:28

are Going in it's like oh my god. What

6:31

are you gonna do with this team? Are they gonna set the league on fire?

6:33

They have the best offensive league Jason Tatum's unbelievable

6:35

and he is unbelievable. I But

6:39

we saw it last night in Charlotte like Is

6:42

the crunch time thing solved we'll get to

6:44

that My big thing with the

6:46

Celtics offense is the point

6:48

of five out spacing or one of the main points

6:51

of it is supposed to be There's nobody

6:53

in the paint. It's all just a

6:55

runway to the rim So go

6:57

to the rim. Don't

6:59

just settle not settle but

7:02

it shouldn't just be all threes and Threes

7:05

threes threes the point of five out facing is to go

7:07

to the rim and that's what I'm always monitoring with the Celtics

7:10

What's the mindset? Are you aiming

7:12

at the right defenders and are you aiming at

7:15

least a little bit more at the basket

7:18

so far? It's TBD There

7:21

21st in free throw rate about where they

7:24

were last year There are 21st

7:26

in the percentage of their shots that come at the basket

7:29

about where they were last year There

7:31

are 15th in offensive rebounding, which is a huge jump

7:33

for them. It is fueling Some

7:36

of their offense at the basket. I

7:38

think Tatum in particular Although

7:41

his shot profile doesn't doesn't really reflect

7:43

it has been with

7:45

the exception of some overly

7:47

difficult Kobe

7:50

Jordan fadeaways from the post and some heat

7:52

checks and he had a million heat checks last night in

7:54

Charlotte and he was hot I think

7:56

he's been pretty diligent like remembering

7:58

the point is the ring.

8:01

We've seen him split the pick and roll over

8:04

and over again and get to the basket. In and out dribbles,

8:06

get to the basket. I think he and Porzingis

8:09

have been smart when they run their two-man game

8:11

at not just defaulting to, well,

8:14

the best thing is an open pick and pop three

8:17

for Porzingis. When teams blitz

8:19

it, JT is kind of hitting

8:21

if Porzingis slips and Porzingis is rolling

8:24

more. He's looking for that interior

8:26

pass. If the team switch it, both

8:29

of them, Tatum and Porzingis have

8:31

been pretty diligent about, okay, how can

8:33

we take this mismatch that both of

8:35

us have and aim it at the rim?

8:38

For Porzingis, that can be rolling.

8:40

Like if you try to switch, I see the switch coming.

8:43

I slip it. I roll ahead of the switch. Feed

8:45

me the ball. I'm taller than everybody. Give me like

8:47

the Wambaniyama lob and I'll draw foul at

8:49

the basket. He's playing his most physical interior

8:52

basketball of his career. For Tatum, it's,

8:55

oh, I got a center on me. Let

8:57

me resist the temptation every time

9:00

to shake and bake Step Back 3 and

9:02

just roast this dude and go to the basket.

9:04

I think he's been pretty good at doing that.

9:07

I think the quality of his passes

9:11

has been, his assists are down. To

9:13

me, qualitatively, the eye test, his

9:16

passing has been better and

9:18

more productive and earlier and snappier

9:21

and quicker. And

9:23

in the fourth quarters of some of these games,

9:26

including last night's game in Charlotte, which we

9:28

will talk about, it was one of my favorite kind

9:30

of regular season losses. One of my just the

9:32

best, most delicious kind of loss. Recently,

9:37

they have been more, I would say,

9:40

calculated in fourth quarters against

9:42

Philly. Where's Tyrese Maxey? Let's

9:45

bring him into the action with Jalen Brown and

9:47

Jason Tatum. Try to get switches. If

9:49

you don't want to switch, you're going to get in rotation. Hunt the right

9:51

guy. Last night, it was, where's Lamelo

9:54

Ball? Bring him, bring him up here. Put

9:56

him in the action. They love that corner set,

9:59

where usually they have Zingas set a pin

10:01

down in the left corner. No one else on that side of

10:03

the floor for jail and Brown And it's

10:05

a great set for them and it simplifies things for jail

10:08

and Brown and he needs things simplified

10:10

for him as a playmaker Last night

10:12

they they switched it up and put Hauser who

10:15

Couldn't miss until last night as the pin

10:17

down guy why because Hauser had the

10:19

mellow ball on him That's the kind of stuff. They're doing more

10:22

in fourth quarters and yet the

10:26

most delicious kind of loss the

10:29

most delicious the Boston Celtics

10:32

up 108 to 99

10:36

with two minutes left in Charlotte now on

10:38

a back-to-back no Derek white no Al Horford I know

10:42

I know Hornets are not very good of 108 to 99

10:45

with two minutes left they proceed in the remaining

10:48

seven minutes of the game two minutes of regulation

10:51

Five minutes of overtime to score ten points in

10:54

seven minutes on 14 possessions They

10:58

also missed four huge high

11:00

leverage free throws including two by drew holiday

11:02

with ten seconds left I could have put them up by four

11:04

and Effectively ice the game

11:07

and it's the most delicious kind of loss because it

11:09

just it's all that latent fear

11:12

in New England fans and and New

11:15

England fans It's just New England is just it's

11:17

the Negativities is just

11:19

simmering under the surface the fear the panic

11:22

the paranoia all the lingering fear

11:24

of oh My god, we melt down

11:26

in crunch time. It was all shoved down

11:29

this hot start this starting five

11:31

this five out lineup Oh my god,

11:33

it looks incredible. We're 11 and two. We're blowing

11:35

the doors off everybody We kind of forgot

11:37

that we're a little worried about Joe Missoula. We're a

11:39

little worried about our crunch time offense We're

11:42

just which is like like it's latent can

11:44

shove it down it all came back

11:46

to the surface last night Is this still a

11:48

problem? And that is my favorite kind of

11:51

regular season loss because everyone starts to panic

11:53

and it seeps into the discourse about

11:55

the team and it'll test the team but I went

11:58

back because I am that kind of uh, uh,

12:01

nerd slash I have problems.

12:04

I rewatched all of Boston's

12:06

possessions this morning, starting

12:08

at that two minute mark. There are 14 of

12:10

them. If you clump together, uh, possessions

12:13

in which they got an offensive rebound and kept the

12:15

ball is, is one possession. There are 14. I

12:19

went and charted all of them. And

12:21

I decided as a dictator,

12:24

whether they were good or bad possessions. And

12:27

I decided that nine of them were good

12:30

and five of them were bad. It didn't feel

12:33

like that watching the game. And that's one of these things about

12:35

crunch time, late game offense, the bad, particularly

12:39

when the result is a loss, the

12:41

bad just gnaws at your brain

12:43

and like shoves the good out.

12:46

And you just remember these horrible

12:48

possessions that start with 10 on the shot clock.

12:51

Like, why are we just walking it up? I know we're

12:53

trying to kill time, but can we get into it with 15

12:56

instead of 10 five bad

12:59

nine good. Unfortunately

13:01

for the Celtics, the five bad centered

13:04

around one player

13:06

who

13:07

if I'm setting off alarm bells about

13:10

the Celtics championship viability, and by the way, I

13:12

picked the Celtics to win the championship and I feel good

13:14

about that pick. So let's just sort

13:17

of color this discussion with that. My finals

13:19

pick for the season was Boston over

13:21

Denver. I feel pretty

13:24

good about that. Denver, by the way, you

13:26

know, can we just stop ejecting the stars?

13:29

Jokic got tossed last night in Detroit, and

13:31

the Nuggets still won because Detroit is just it's

13:35

not going great for the fist anyone

13:38

who could shoot would help and yes, two of their best shooters,

13:40

Marnie Morris and especially Bogdanovich are injured, but

13:42

still. If I have

13:44

to watch it any more minutes, and I didn't last night of

13:47

Marvin Bagley and James Weisman playing together, I

13:49

am going to need a barf bag next

13:51

to my laptop because it's just I can't watch it.

13:54

Okay, Celtics 14 possessions

13:56

nine good five bad. The alarm

13:59

bells are this. The five bad

14:01

four of them center

14:03

around one player

14:05

who

14:06

is right now

14:09

Maybe the most intriguing player in the league as

14:11

as the sort of swing factor for a great team

14:13

and that's jaylen brown Who I just

14:15

don't think is playing very well He

14:18

is at for the season 21 points

14:21

five rebounds three assists two and a half turnover.

14:23

So almost even assisted turnover 44 overall

14:27

34 on threes 52 on twos

14:30

his handle somehow looks worse like

14:33

every time he dribbles now I'm

14:35

nervous that something bad is going to happen It

14:38

doesn't matter if he's just bringing the ball up or

14:40

if he's he's dribbling in traffic It

14:42

just it feels almost worse. I don't know

14:44

how it feels worse. So last

14:47

night Here i'm going to go through

14:49

the bad possessions The first one

14:51

right the 150 of the fourth

14:53

quarter No passes. They'll

14:55

only pass on the whole possession is drew holiday hands of all

14:57

the jaylen brown at the start of possession They

15:00

just drip. He just dribbles around for the next 10 seconds

15:02

and takes a fade away jumper that misses awful

15:05

terrible possession The next

15:07

the next ones are fine. Uh Jaylen

15:10

brown gets a miss off a tatum pick and roll

15:13

There's an offensive rebound jason tatum sam

15:15

houser pick and roll jason tatum misses a layup He missed

15:18

two layoffs in crunch time last night

15:21

um

15:23

Then there's the holiday isolation that results

15:25

in the free throws that he misses that was a bully ball against

15:27

mellow That's fine Then there's the last possession

15:29

of the of regulation for the Celtics which I dubbed

15:31

a bad possession didn't involve jaylen brown Just

15:34

a called isolation for jason tatum because

15:36

why would we have anything else in the bag except the

15:38

called isolation for our best player? Charlotte

15:41

doubles. What do you know? Charlotte doubles

15:43

who could have seen that coming kick out the sam

15:45

houser contested three mists We go to overtime Then

15:48

in overtime jaylen brown makes a floater

15:51

Jaylen brown Pick and roll with

15:53

porzingis leads to a wide open

15:55

paten prichard corner three on the swing.

15:57

He misses it. That's fine Jaylen brown jim then

16:00

draws a foul in transition, one out of two from

16:02

the line, whatever. Tatum misses

16:04

another layup on a pick and roll. Then

16:06

we get back to Jalen Brown. Little

16:08

pin down for Jalen Brown, I like it, it's good. He's

16:11

got a gap, he's staring at a diagonal

16:14

gap. He can attack it off the dribble, the next

16:16

play is staring him in the face. One hard dribble,

16:18

you're in the lane, drive, kick, boom,

16:20

we got something. Instead

16:23

he stops and freezes. Okay,

16:26

we got a reset now. Peyton Prichard comes over to

16:28

set a screen, I think it was Peyton Prichard. Nothing

16:30

really happens, horrible kind

16:32

of turnaround fade away, yucky jumper

16:35

at the foul line, it misses. And

16:40

after that it sort of devolves from

16:42

there, Tatum hits a three at some point. And

16:46

the second to last possession

16:49

of overtime for the Celtics, Tatum,

16:51

Porzingis pick and roll, the horn splits it, kick

16:53

to Jalen Brown. It's the right pass, Tatum makes the right pass.

16:56

Floor's in rotation, we got two on us. Everything's

17:00

in chaos, swing to Jalen Brown on the left wing.

17:02

He's got Porzingis flashing open in the paint,

17:05

hands up, it's a tough pass. There's a defender

17:07

in between Jalen Brown and Porzingis, tough pass. And

17:10

he's got Peyton Prichard wide open in the corner

17:12

right next to him. He passes to neither

17:14

player, stops the offense,

17:17

takes a three, and misses it. And

17:20

then Tatum gets fouled at the end of overtime, misses one of

17:22

the free throws. Boston loses. My

17:24

point is this, I'm

17:28

worried about the way Jalen Brown has started the season.

17:30

You can, it's hard

17:33

to notice cuz the Celtics are 11 and 3 and he's averaging 21

17:35

a game and he is an incredible

17:37

shot maker when he's rolling. He's

17:40

one of the best transition players in the league and he's the

17:42

master of this sort of semi-transition

17:45

backdoor cut on the baseline. I

17:47

trust him in transition. Everything

17:50

else just feels so forced right

17:52

now. His shot selection is awful

17:54

at times during all these games. Just so

17:57

many difficult shots, hero

17:59

shots. You don't need to be the hero

18:02

in the second quarter of a game where we're

18:04

up by 12 just play and As

18:08

I watch Boston other than health and

18:11

and we know they're thin although Peyton Pritchard perked

18:13

up last night and like had some Bully ball drives

18:16

were was knocking people over. I was like dude Peyton Pritchard.

18:18

What got into you? Sam Houser's

18:20

been making shots Cornette's good. Horford's off

18:22

the bench fight I still have hope for bersett Celtics

18:24

can make a trade and probably will make a trade for

18:27

a seventh guy to fortify their team

18:30

if they feel the need to so other than health and

18:33

Just which is a concern for every team Jalen

18:36

Brown is like I'm just watching him very closely

18:38

because if he can't recalibrate his

18:40

game and his shot selection the right way and It's

18:43

off-kilter like this There are going to

18:45

be playoff games in the muck of

18:47

crunch time where he undoes the

18:49

Celtics offense and the Celtics offense undoes

18:51

itself late in these games and

18:55

You know look

18:57

as great as they are your margin for error in the

18:59

playoffs is pretty thin You know,

19:01

you'll have crunch time games that you win. You'll have crunch

19:03

time games that you lose That's the reality of

19:06

it that equation can't tilt too

19:08

far toward Wobbliness if

19:10

you want to win For

19:12

playoff series and last night it was was

19:15

a bad crunch time for Boston Although not that bad.

19:17

Like I said nine of the fourteen I would

19:19

say we're good productive possessions and one

19:21

of the five bad was the last One

19:23

of regulation where they had seven seconds to work with most

19:26

of those possessions are bad So I wouldn't again,

19:29

I wouldn't panic about the overall crunch

19:31

time offense except it was too slow in jail

19:33

and Browns Shot

19:36

selection wasn't great. I will say

19:38

I Will

19:41

say just in general on Boston

19:44

Drive and kick is the

19:46

defining ethos of the Celtics offense

19:49

NBA offenses in general it's been that way for years.

19:51

That's fine. Like drive and kick did they take more

19:54

threes than anyone? They're an incredible three-point shooting team.

19:56

I

19:57

Just don't want kick

20:00

particularly for the Celtics with their five

20:02

out spacing and they're just

20:05

overall like Drew Holliday

20:07

can get to the rim against smaller defenders.

20:10

Tatum Brown are powerful players. Derek

20:12

White can get powerful when he wants to and kind of

20:14

spin and wiggle his way in there. Porzingis is gigantic.

20:17

I just don't want kick to be the

20:20

default. Like sometimes when you're getting

20:22

into the paint going north-south and

20:24

there's a help defender coming, you

20:27

have this moment where you're like okay

20:29

the rote play is to kick it because the

20:32

help is coming and there's a three-point shooter over here.

20:35

Sometimes they just like just go just go to

20:37

the rim. Like let's good things will

20:39

happen if you go to the rim. Sometimes it'll get blocked but

20:42

rim shots also equal offensive

20:44

rebounds, also equal free throws. Like

20:46

even if the actual shot doesn't go in there

20:49

are all these other outcomes at the rim

20:52

that are good and more stable

20:54

than super high volume three-point jump shooting

20:56

and that's always gonna be the self-decrust fee. Lots of

20:58

threes, threes, threes, threes. That's how they're going to win. I get

21:01

it. I'm talking like ten possessions a

21:03

game. Whether it's Jason Tatum

21:06

with the center on him around the arc

21:08

on a switch,

21:09

room. Drew

21:10

Holliday driving to the basket. He had one last

21:12

night where he was at the basket. There

21:14

were two last night, two,

21:17

where I think Drew Holliday was both of them. He was pretty

21:19

much at the basket and there was a help

21:21

defender there in okay position

21:23

to contest. On one he forced

21:26

it and drew a foul and I was like

21:28

yep that's what I want. Give me that.

21:30

Give me the free throws and I'm not talking

21:32

about the the play where he ended

21:34

up missing the two free throws at the end of regulation. It was a different

21:36

one. Although that is also similar and

21:39

then there was another one where I thought he had a nice

21:41

shot at the rim and he kicked it out because that's

21:43

what Boston's offensive is supposed to do and I was like man just go

21:45

up at the rim. That's all I'm saying. Just like I want

21:48

I'm monitoring that 21st in shots

21:50

at the rim, 21st in free throw eight.

21:53

I'd like to see those get a little bit

21:55

higher. I like the 15th

21:57

in offensive rebounding.

22:00

That's just that's and I think that

22:03

is when the Celtics offense

22:06

melts down late in games,

22:08

I think that's part of it is that that

22:10

sort of Thoughtfulness

22:13

and attacking mentality drifts

22:16

away and it just becomes either

22:19

hero ball or We're

22:21

gonna kick until we get a three which is fine If

22:23

it's oh the the threes that they get

22:26

when they when the pass comes from inside the

22:28

paint to outside Those are

22:30

good threes and the Celtics are tripled down

22:32

on those threes Just I just like

22:34

a little more rim, but their offense is obviously fine their

22:36

fifth and their defense again We don't

22:38

talk about it as much Because

22:41

of all these issues they've had I think

22:43

their defense is absolutely legit Porzingis

22:45

has been incredible protecting the rim. We

22:48

know what the what the big wings and guards

22:50

can do Derek white and drew holiday It's like it

22:52

makes me uncomfortable on behalf of offensive

22:55

players watching them have to navigate these guys And

22:58

all the fundamentals are just off

23:00

the charts good They're second in opponent free

23:02

throw rate so they don't foul their fourth

23:04

in defensive rebounding which is outstanding for them

23:07

considering They play pretty small. I think Tatum's gang

23:09

rebounding in particular has been outstanding All

23:13

season and they are I

23:15

think allowing the fifth fewest shots

23:17

at the rim now They had a couple defensive breakdowns

23:19

to last night by the way focus on the offense All you want

23:22

Jason Tatum got beat back door for

23:24

a Gordon Hayward dunk I think it was Tatum

23:26

we missed a box out on Brandon Miller that

23:28

led to a Gordon Hayward long two in overtime

23:31

But fifth fewest shots at the rim

23:34

they allow a lot of threes, but when you

23:36

break it down They allow

23:38

the seventh fewest corner

23:40

threes

23:41

and a

23:42

ton of above the break threes And

23:45

that's on purpose and that's baked

23:47

in to how the Celtics play The

23:49

way they drop Porzingis on the pick and roll go

23:52

over screens and stay home

23:54

on shooters, especially in the corners You

23:57

are going to allow a certain amount of pull-up

23:59

threes by good shooting ball handling

24:02

point guards. Some of them are going to be contested and

24:04

that's what you want every one of them to be contested. And you have

24:06

Derek White, who's one of the best rearview shop lockers

24:09

among guards like in recent NBA history.

24:11

And you have Drew Holiday. Some of them are going

24:14

to be uncontested because guys are going to get hung up on screens.

24:16

That happens. And the Celtics are willing to

24:18

live with that because even if it's

24:20

now against Steph or Dame, and that's

24:23

part of the reason this matchup is so fascinating, you

24:25

can die by that too. Like those guys are that

24:27

good. But the

24:30

Celtics defense is about playing the long game over 100

24:32

possessions every game. We don't think you can

24:34

beat us just relying on

24:37

above the breakthroughs. That's why when they have

24:39

an opportunity to put Porzingis on or

24:41

Luke Cornett last night on a non-threatening

24:44

perimeter player like Bryce McAllen's last night was that

24:46

guy for the Hornets or Ish Smith and just

24:48

hang around the basket, that's all designed

24:51

to take away defensive

24:53

rotations that lead to corner threes. And they're good

24:55

at the point of attack. Corner threes come when

24:58

you beat the first layer of defense and the third

25:00

guy's got to step up and help against

25:03

the drive and you swing. And the Celtics are really

25:05

good at that. I think this defense is absolutely legit.

25:07

Top five defense. Doesn't get talked

25:10

about enough, I don't think, in our obsession

25:12

in mine. I'm guilty of it too. On

25:14

their offense, a couple other things about the offense. Celtics

25:17

isolations, 26.7 per 100 possessions.

25:23

That's second in the NBA behind

25:26

only the Clippers. Last year,

25:28

that was at 20 per 100 possessions

25:30

for Boston. So seven more per 100

25:33

possessions. The hero

25:35

ball, that's what I'm talking about. And look, they're

25:37

good at isolations. They rank 11 inefficiency

25:40

out of isolations. 1.006 points

25:44

per isolation. That's not good.

25:46

That's like worse than their regular offense. That

25:49

number should come down. And just the thing

25:51

to keep an eye on. We'll

25:54

take them on the floor. 120 offensive

25:57

rating, 104 defensive rating.

25:59

16 for 100 possessions. Tatum

26:03

off the floor, defense 109, that's

26:05

still quite good. Offense

26:07

falls from 120 to 105. Again,

26:14

Jalen Brown spotlight, but

26:17

it's not just Jalen Brown. In

26:19

a lot of those minutes, Celtics

26:21

have Brown, Holiday, and Porzingis on the floor,

26:25

or two of those three on the floor, and

26:28

it's still kind of been a

26:30

struggle for them. Just

26:35

something to keep an eye on. But I trust the defense

26:37

and the offense is legit.

26:40

That last night in Charlotte, combined

26:42

with a not great performance in Memphis,

26:49

we lived this movie last year when for the first

26:51

month of the season, Boston's offense was totally unstoppable.

26:54

And then reality hit. Well, reality

26:56

hit a little bit the last two games. And

26:58

again, this is still my pick to win the

27:00

title. And I just can't wait for this game

27:03

against a Milwaukee team that is starting to

27:05

come into form despite

27:09

Jay Crowder being out, Middleton

27:11

being out here and there, Marzia on Beauchamp has been out

27:13

the last few games I did. Keep an eye on Marzia on Beauchamp,

27:15

by the way. Shooting well, particularly

27:17

out of the corners, has immense

27:19

tools defensively. And the Bucks

27:22

need someone to check that box

27:24

of three-ish, D-ish

27:27

wing. And Beauchamp may

27:30

be their best shot. I mean, I wish Andre

27:32

Jackson Jr. could shoot because I love watching that dude

27:34

play. He's just an awesome playmaker at

27:36

Open Space, awesome defender. They've given him chances.

27:39

We'll see if it happens. But I can't

27:42

wait for this game. And

27:45

yeah, Celtics, tough

27:47

one last night. Overall, still

27:49

looking good. Keep an eye on

27:51

Jaylen Brown. That's all I'm saying because I just,

27:55

even on good nights, I haven't

27:57

liked the eye test. The good nights feel like,

27:59

OK, there's the tough shots fell tonight and

28:01

like sometimes they'll fall. I want to count

28:03

on that. And they're so talented that they

28:05

shouldn't have to count on that. Okay, let

28:08

us stop talking about the Celtics and the Bucs

28:10

and start talking about

28:14

the Oklahoma City Thunder who

28:17

have a college age team

28:20

are 10 and four and

28:22

part of a rising group

28:24

of young teams as the NBA heaters

28:27

on a changing of the guard. We'll talk about that

28:29

with Andrew Schlecht of the athletic coming

28:32

up now.

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Alright, let's switch gears from the top of

30:02

the east to the what the what the top

30:04

of the west and talk about the

30:07

Oklahoma City Thunder ten

30:09

and four seventh in offense

30:12

sixth in defense

30:13

and in the Vanguard I feel

30:15

like of So early for

30:18

sweeping generalities, but some

30:21

of the old Titans of the NBA

30:24

Clippers not really a Titan. They're more like They're

30:27

not even a god. They're one level below Titans

30:30

and gods. They're like that. They're like Hercules like the

30:32

half mortal half God Lakers

30:35

warriors Scuffling along

30:37

getting old and here come Well

30:41

when I will say this

30:42

when I get

30:44

When I ask or get asked by people around the

30:46

league GMS agents coaches

30:48

Who are the most interesting teams in the league for

30:51

the next two to three years? Oklahoma

30:53

City is default number one Orlando

30:56

is the other team that comes up all the time and then with

30:58

Indiana rising with Halliburton Houston

31:01

Now six and six they've figured out their life on the

31:03

road is tough It

31:05

just feels like there's a little changing

31:08

of the guard happening around

31:10

the NBA, but the Thunder

31:13

who

31:14

Andrew select from the athletic

31:16

Thunder guy slam a jam podcast

31:19

National voice as well. How are you, sir? I'm

31:23

doing great. It feels great to be here. I'm actually Broadcasting

31:26

from the classic factory the no dunks classic

31:28

factory here in Atlanta So

31:31

it's overall just an amazing day out to my friend

31:33

TAS Melis who's been back at work of

31:35

late after a scary Pedestrian

31:39

hit by a car accident just the best

31:42

shout out to his wife Danielle who have known for longer

31:44

than I've known TAS We will keep the

31:46

context of that A mystery

31:49

for people and it's a funny one Love

31:51

you guys The

31:54

Thunder

31:56

Andrew

31:58

What is happening right now is completely

32:00

unprecedented in the history of the NBA. If

32:03

the Thunder are a 50 win team right

32:05

now today and

32:06

I

32:08

look to have been wrong about the Thunder. I

32:11

was thinking 43 to 46

32:14

wins let's hit the breaks, young

32:16

teams just generally don't play this well not

32:19

sure about their depth beyond Isaiah Joe

32:21

who's been unbelievable. Part

32:23

of it was the difficulty of projecting exactly

32:25

what Chet Holmgren would be right away and oh

32:27

my god Chet Holmgren is the rookie

32:30

of the year right now over Victor Wambaniyama, 10

32:32

games in who cares whatever but this

32:35

team I look to be wrong this team

32:37

looks to be a 51 team

32:40

a candidate for a home court

32:42

advantage in the West candidate

32:44

for like the number two or three seed in the

32:46

West along with Minnesota Phoenix Denver all that stuff

32:50

and there's never been a team this good

32:53

good now

32:54

with this many future first-round I

32:56

mean there's never been a team with this many future first-round

32:59

picks anyway but a team this good

33:02

with this many chances to hit the home

33:04

run of we're good and

33:06

oh we're picking third in the draft

33:09

because of this pick that we have from whatever

33:11

team gives it to us it's

33:14

never happened before

33:15

and let's

33:16

just start with the team as of now seventh

33:19

in offense sixth in defense I

33:22

don't need to tell you because you're a Thunder guy

33:24

that there's some shooting luck on

33:26

both ends of the floor that's helping them a little bit

33:28

their first in mate their first and three-point

33:31

shooting and their opponents

33:33

have the worst mid-range shooting percentage

33:35

and the fifth worst three-point shooting percentage in

33:37

the league so maybe some

33:40

regression is coming maybe

33:42

but I'll tell you man

33:44

that win over the Warriors and overtime over the

33:46

weekend cemented it for me there's

33:48

something about this team this team is good

33:51

and fearsome and they play

33:54

this is going to sound like a strange thing to say they

33:57

play with a maturity that

33:59

is Unusual for a team this young and I'm not

34:02

talking about what she at home grid made a big three Shay

34:04

goes to Alexander's and he made a huge

34:06

development I'm still not sure how chad home grid made that left

34:09

corner three without stepping out of bounds and

34:11

Shay is a monster Just

34:14

the way they move the ball around like

34:16

just watch like little extra passes They

34:18

always know where the next link in the chain is like Chet's

34:21

a good passer J Dubs a good just like make the

34:23

next there's a certain maturity to them

34:26

I'm

34:27

I'm surprised how good they are and

34:30

and I want to start with you

34:33

just sort of like How good

34:35

like what's the expectations now? Just just

34:37

leave the team alone leave the roster as is like

34:41

How do we even talk about them? Yeah,

34:45

I mean they're gonna make the playoffs it seems like if they stay

34:47

on the trajectory done They're in the they're in the

34:49

playoffs Which is a huge step for

34:52

one of the youngest teams in the NBA and

34:54

they're starting to really establish their style of

34:56

play They have a ton of talent, but

34:58

they're also more than the sum of their parts

35:01

Which is really unusual for

35:03

a young team? And I think not

35:06

only do the Thunder draft players that are good

35:08

sides for position or skill level

35:10

is through the roof But like psychologically

35:14

these guys are just different like they're

35:16

unselfish. They play hard

35:18

They're tough as nails. It is just a

35:21

really interesting group of guys and they're just all

35:23

genuinely Good easy-going

35:26

people off the court So

35:28

like they they have really done something

35:30

with not only like players They've acquired

35:33

like Isaiah Joe's been amazing for them They

35:35

acquired Kenner to Williams during the reveal

35:38

but just drafting guys that

35:40

are just tough nose players which

35:42

I think is a huge part of what they're able

35:44

to do right now and and Genuinely

35:46

like the unselfishness is gonna

35:49

be the thing that's gonna carry this team because

35:51

there are a lot of guys That could

35:53

take a lot more shots if they were in a different situation But

35:56

they all seem pretty content to be where they're

35:58

at right now. I mean Chet Chet's been amazing.

36:01

He's only taking 10 shots a game. I

36:03

mean the guy has a lot left to

36:06

give and they are, Mark

36:08

Dagnall calls it clearing hurdles. Like

36:10

Chet continues to clear every hurdle that they

36:13

put in front of him. And he's

36:15

going to be the second, if

36:17

not the best player on this team. Like I think we've seen

36:19

enough just to show that on

36:21

both ends he could be the most valuable

36:24

player on the Thunder here in a few years. But

36:26

as they continue to unlock them, as

36:28

they continue to unlock the Chet

36:31

tearing, which is what do you do?

36:34

What do you do with those two? Chet can

36:36

make any mid-range shot. He

36:38

can get to the rim. He gets fouled. He's making 90%

36:40

of his free throws. Chet can shoot from three.

36:43

He can shoot from the mid-range. He's going to finish around

36:45

the hoop. He did that in college. He's doing that in the league.

36:48

I don't know what you do with those two. And then not

36:51

to mention, he got J-Dub on the wing who is a

36:53

killer scorer himself. He

36:55

took over in the fourth quarter for the Thunder against the Warriors.

36:58

He looks like he gained 30 pounds

37:00

of muscle in the off-season. He

37:03

was always kind of a big dude, but now it's like, is

37:06

that like a linebacker? I almost

37:08

voted him

37:10

Rookie of the Year last year. I kind of wish

37:12

I had speaking of which Rookie of the Year. Just

37:16

apropos of nothing and everything. Because

37:19

of the Thunder starts of the season, just

37:22

all the scouts are in New York. A lot of scouts are in

37:24

New York right now for college stuff. So I've had a bunch

37:26

of meetings. Chet versus Paolo.

37:29

It's like Chet versus Wembley is the debate of

37:31

the year. The Chet Paolo revisiting

37:33

the draft debate is a hot topic

37:35

right now. Hot topic. Totally different context.

37:38

Rarely do you get to be a big man who

37:40

comes in with like, oh, I got a first team

37:42

all NBA guard feeding me. I got Josh

37:45

Giddy who's a passing genius feeding

37:47

me. I've got J-Dub who's a tank feeding

37:49

me. It's a pretty friendly context,

37:53

but yes, please continue. Yeah,

37:56

J-Dub told me that he posted a picture of himself

37:58

like all bulk depth. during the offseason so

38:01

that he got drug tested after he posted that picture

38:03

because he was so big. He

38:07

does and the cool thing

38:09

about him is like he's willing to take on whatever

38:11

defensive assignment they hand to him and he's getting

38:14

a lot like he's defended Zion Williamson this

38:16

season. He's the guy to do that and

38:19

he looks improved. He looks like the game is slowing

38:22

down for him quite a bit and just

38:24

his his mid-range pull-up is

38:26

like it's a huge weapon for that. Step back two, step

38:28

back three, step back two, step back three and

38:31

his dunking. I mean he is he's providing

38:33

a lot for them and he has a whole lot left to give

38:35

as well and that's going to be kind of the theme is

38:37

that a lot of these guys have a

38:40

lot left to give and like how do they establish

38:42

that pecking order where the sacrifice is coming

38:44

from. That's going to be like the number

38:47

one thing on Mark Dignall's plate which is a great

38:49

problem to have but they're gonna have

38:51

to figure that out as they go and so far so

38:53

good but yeah this this

38:56

young team is it seemed impossible

38:59

that they could have a young team that was as good

39:02

as they were with Durant, Westbrook, Harden

39:05

and this is maybe

39:07

they don't have the high-end talent like that team

39:09

did maybe maybe they won't hit as

39:12

like three future MVPs on the same

39:14

team like like three future MVPs but

39:16

the depth like Josh Giddy

39:18

is a very good player. Kacen Wallace is

39:21

a very good player. They didn't have some of those

39:23

pieces the first time around so

39:25

maybe the maybe the top top

39:28

talent's not the same but throughout

39:30

the roster and like the picks that you mentioned

39:33

like they have a chance to be really special. The collective

39:35

in a lot of ways feels

39:37

easier than it did with that

39:39

team like the yeah the way

39:41

the pieces fit and amplify each other

39:44

and have are all part of the same

39:47

mentality of head down

39:50

go to the rim and we have a big man who

39:52

spaces the floor at all times so we can

39:54

invert the floor you want to use Lou

39:56

Dort as a screener and have him roll to the basket

39:58

sure. Same with any

40:01

combination of guards. All of them. Zion

40:03

Tangent, since you mentioned Zion, and we're going to talk

40:05

about the Kings a little bit, they got blown

40:08

out on a back-to-back in New Orleans last

40:10

night, which is notable only for the fact that

40:12

it was the first time this season. I don't know if you caught

40:14

any of that game. It was kind of an in-game. Zion

40:17

looked like Zion. For the first time

40:19

of the season, Zion was like maybe

40:22

the second time, because he had another big game recently that

40:24

I didn't see. It was like,

40:26

oh, oh, there's nothing. Harrison

40:28

Barnes might as well be me. It

40:31

might as well be me trying to defend Zion. There's

40:33

nothing anybody can do. Ingram

40:37

had a big game, a huge game, actually,

40:40

and they didn't really work

40:42

in tandem. It was more like, you're

40:44

hot than I'm hot, than you're hot when I'm

40:46

off the floor, and I'm hot when you're off the floor. The

40:49

tandem stuff is still, I don't quite

40:51

know how they work together, and that's fine.

40:55

But they had a big game together, and

40:58

Zion is going to be Zion for 55 more

41:00

games, or 50 more games, or whatever.

41:03

That team kind of got parked

41:05

over here, because half of it is injured now

41:07

and always, and they've just

41:10

parked on the, okay, maybe they'll be 10th, or

41:12

8th, or 11th. It's like, okay,

41:14

maybe you're better. Okay, Thunder, you

41:16

said a lot of interesting things. 10 Rich

41:20

Williams coming back is big for them, and fortifies

41:22

their depth. He's played a little back up center, and

41:24

a little bit back up four next to Chet. Isaiah

41:28

Joe, what

41:30

a goddamn heist. Like Sam Presti

41:34

just cracked the, did every

41:36

job in the bank robbery, including driving

41:39

the getaway car with Isaiah Joe in the passenger

41:41

seat. Didn't even set off the alarm.

41:43

No security guards were harmed in the robbery,

41:46

just like the absolute perfect robbery. That

41:49

dude, I said in one of

41:51

my preseason columns, he could be a sneaky

41:53

six-man of the year ballot candidate. I don't know if he'll

41:55

score a couple points to traditionally kind

41:57

of win the award. It's usually like an 18-point game.

42:00

point of game. They're

42:03

net rating with Shay,

42:06

Chet,

42:08

and Joe on the floor. They

42:11

are plus 45 in 69 minutes. Plus 26

42:16

for 100 possessions. And I think that's somewhat

42:18

about Isaiah Joe, but a lot

42:20

about the power of put one

42:23

great shooter in

42:25

place of any of the other starters. And

42:27

it's like, oh, well, and he's

42:30

to Isaiah Joe's credit, he's

42:32

gotten much better on defense. And he's

42:34

gotten much better as like a pull up floater,

42:36

like get into the paint, not

42:38

on a high volume, but like kind of like the Duncan

42:40

Robinson transition that's happening in Milwaukee.

42:43

So like you can make play or Miami rather he

42:45

can make plays in the paint. And

42:48

Gideon case on Wallace, I'm glad you brought them up.

42:51

Because there's been a lot of games so far where Josh giddy

42:54

has been the odd man out in the fourth quarter. And

42:56

case on Wallace has gotten some of those minutes. Yep.

42:59

And he's been cool, like

43:01

literally never getting the ball ever. Like

43:04

he's like, can you just defend Steph Curry and

43:06

will not pass you the ball one time and your usage

43:08

rate for is 10%. He has a PJ

43:11

Tucker level usage rate. And he's a guard

43:13

who handles the ball. And he's like, cool.

43:15

I'm on I'm on the floor and crunch time. Like don't pass it

43:18

to me. I'm fine. It's been very, very interesting.

43:22

Yeah, it case in has been

43:24

great shooting the ball to me. He's 62% from

43:27

the field 54% from three when he does

43:29

shoot, he's 100% from the free throw line is only taking a few.

43:32

But when he shoots the ball, he's making

43:34

it and they they do a lot of interesting things with them.

43:37

He's a screener a lot. He's in the dunker spot.

43:39

He's a corner. He's doing a

43:41

little bit of everything for them. And they feel comfortable

43:43

putting him in weird spots. And this is something

43:45

this is like a Mark Dignall thing. They want to test all

43:48

their guys. They did this with jade up early last

43:50

season, where they want to put them in as many situations

43:52

as possible. And they're doing it with case of Wallace

43:55

right now. Mark Dignall has a

43:57

serious affinity for this player. He really, really

43:59

likes him. He plays him a ton

44:02

and he started him in place of JW

44:04

the other night in Portland This

44:06

is a guy that is very highly thought

44:08

of by the coaching staff and he's showing

44:11

it early on. He's not you're right He's not scoring

44:13

a ton But he's just

44:15

efficient He plays hard defense

44:18

and he's somebody that we talked about like Chet

44:20

his role expanding This guy's role can expand there's

44:23

he has a lot to his game as a ball

44:25

handler. He plays off ball He can do just

44:27

about anything. I think he's the shortest guy on the team.

44:30

They love to use him down low They

44:32

love he can finish around the hoop very easily.

44:35

They love using around the hoop That's

44:38

that's been a a really big

44:40

gift to Thunder fans because I think you obviously

44:42

knew like Chet's gonna come in He's gonna be

44:44

a good addition Okay, so I was taking 10th

44:47

overall But no one really had that many

44:49

expectations for him and he's quickly become

44:51

like a fan favorite in Oklahoma City

44:53

in a immediate Regular

44:57

in the rotation including in crunch time and

44:59

a very good defense tough defensive player and

45:01

you're right Part of the reason the Thunder have a top 10

45:03

offense is and by the way Something

45:06

that's happened in the last week. They're now slightly

45:08

positive with Shay off the floor They're just plus

45:10

four for the season, but that was like minus

45:13

a lot ten days. Oh, yeah So

45:15

their offense is getting steadier even when

45:18

he's not out there and they put j-dub

45:20

and Chet out there together a lot of Those minutes, so it

45:22

should be stable But

45:24

part of the part of it is you just kind

45:26

of never know where anyone is gonna be

45:29

other than Shay and sometimes Including Shay

45:31

when they use him as a screener It's like who's

45:34

screening for who wears now case and Wallace was in the dunker

45:36

spotlight What's going on with all these perimeter

45:38

guys now? They can't get a rebound on either end of the

45:40

floor Right is the price for playing

45:42

small but Mark Dagnall.

45:45

I think I had him second in coaches year last

45:47

year maybe third There

45:51

aren't many coaches that are doing more creative

45:53

stuff on offense that that he is It's

45:56

he's and he's just kind of black box

45:58

that nobody really knows much about out nationally. If

46:02

I could profile, if you gave me infinite

46:04

access to any team's coach to write

46:07

a profile, which we'll never

46:09

have with Oklahoma City, I

46:11

would choose Mark Dagnold. And

46:14

the headline would be, who in the hell is

46:16

Mark Dagnold? And how is this happening? Because he's

46:18

really, really good. Yeah,

46:21

his story is unbelievable. And

46:23

I hope to tell it with him on my podcast,

46:25

Down to Dunk at some point, that

46:28

is like a hope and prayer of mine

46:30

is that I will get Mark Dagnold on the podcast

46:33

on Down to Dunk to talk about his career, because

46:35

it is a one of the most unlikely

46:38

NBA coaches ever. I mean,

46:40

if you replay his life 100 times,

46:43

he's the coach once probably, it's

46:46

it is really astounding. And he is creative. And

46:48

some of that is he's given the liberty to be creative because

46:50

he has so many playmakers on the team. And

46:53

that was something that even locally people like

46:55

why are the thunder drafting all these playmakers? Isn't there there's

46:57

only one ball? How are we going to do this? Because

47:00

they have so many playmakers, and

47:02

they have unselfish playmakers, they can

47:04

do just about anything. They have these inverted

47:06

pick and rolls. I saw them run a a

47:09

mitzic, chat pick and roll where mitzic

47:12

was the screener in the previous year.

47:14

Why not?

47:15

Which is just,

47:16

I mean, what do you what do you even do with that? I think the

47:19

I think they're playing the Pistons. They were just so confused that

47:21

the thunder just easily scored. But the

47:23

fact that they can have any of these guys

47:25

handling including Chet, who in

47:28

transition is just a absolute monster,

47:31

grabs the ball off the rim, he's not somebody that's just going to bring

47:33

the ball up the court and dish it off like he can

47:35

take it the distance. And

47:37

he he is, we're just scratching

47:40

the surface of what we know about Chet, but his

47:42

grab and go ability is is real.

47:45

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49:17

I think back a lot to a conversation I had with

49:19

somebody from the Raptors when they traded

49:21

for MarketSold the year they won the championship.

49:25

And I remember being a little mildly

49:27

surprised by the trade because they had Valanciunas

49:29

who went out in the trade and they had Ibaka, so they had

49:31

two centers. Just didn't feel like a position of weakness

49:33

to me. And this person said

49:35

to me, yeah, but you gotta understand, we

49:39

need another guy who,

49:42

when it gets real nasty, the crowd's

49:44

real loud, and the defense is swirling

49:47

around feisty against

49:49

the best teams, another guy who

49:51

just makes good decisions every time and makes

49:53

them fast. And Yonis is not that guy,

49:56

and Mark is. And I thought about

49:58

that in that Warriors game. We think about

50:00

playmaking often is like all right like Luca

50:03

playmaking Trey playmaking like guy gets the

50:05

ball up top draws to Really

50:08

cool pass to the corner, but in

50:10

the muck of it Sometimes playmaking is like

50:13

Chet catches the ball 16 feet from

50:15

the rim on the baseline in like a weird

50:17

spot Floors and flux everyone's moving around

50:19

and you got to make the next right pass and

50:21

it could be a weird pass to like So

50:23

and so at the foul line and like they have a bunch

50:26

of guys who make that pass Really

50:29

really well So here's my

50:31

question for you This is

50:33

a big question the one that I'm for spitball

50:35

and everyone in the league is triple on got all these picks

50:38

million picks You

50:40

got per tan salary others.

50:42

You can get up to 25 million and in Outgoing

50:46

salary without touching anybody who's really playing real

50:48

minutes at all Mm-hmm, and and

50:50

now the rules for trades are broadened for

50:52

teams that are under the tax, you know In

50:55

terms of salary in and out so all

50:57

the analysis of the Thunder his focus

50:59

and what what are they gonna do? and it's almost

51:02

like There are too many choices

51:04

like they just have infinite optionality

51:06

and I don't even know where to begin Analyzing

51:10

what the hell they should do the answer

51:12

may well just be nothing like they have this

51:14

It could just be their core keep it together and see

51:16

what happens But the the analysis is focused

51:18

a lot on two polar opposite strategies

51:20

strategy. Number one is will you

51:23

just trade? Core player

51:25

X probably giddy and like nine million

51:27

picks for a star Can you just do it now

51:30

and poll number two is well,

51:32

you know, this is a Thunder they're obsessed with

51:34

sustainability It's a small market like

51:37

down the line. Are they gonna be able to pay anybody? Probably

51:40

gonna be hard in 2.0 where they trade

51:42

one of these guys down the line when

51:44

we get to 26 27 And they're all

51:46

on big contracts Chet giddy jail

51:49

and Shay for future picks and

51:51

like, you know, keep the cycle going And

51:54

I'm like, well the the hardened trade kind

51:56

of still hovers over everything about this

51:58

franchise. I'm not sure that they're going to make that

52:00

kind of trade early ever again. Maybe

52:03

they'll make it late, but not early. But

52:05

in between those spaces is

52:08

a gigantic canyon of

52:10

possibilities, including

52:13

short-term upgrades that are

52:15

not like the five picks in giddy

52:17

for superstar X, who's not really even

52:19

available and you don't control those situations. And

52:22

I just wonder, as someone who knows

52:24

this team intimately, what do you think

52:26

about those polls and

52:29

if this team is this good, it

52:32

cracks open that discussion of

52:34

is there a trade we can make this season that

52:37

is a little smaller scale somehow

52:40

fits our salary structure and our timeline

52:43

because we've got to look ahead to 26, 27 when all those guys are going

52:45

to be on maybe all of them

52:47

on max deals and plan

52:49

accordingly. Is there something

52:51

we can do to beef up our bench a little

52:53

bit? We might not even need to start our starting lineup is like

52:55

plus 10 per 100 possessions. What

52:58

do you think of all these options? Is this

53:01

even the right way to frame it? I

53:04

think there are still a lot of questions

53:06

to be answered about the roster and especially

53:09

some of the back end guys like how good

53:11

is Vasili Michic? Is he going

53:13

to be an NBA player? Can you play him in the playoffs? Usman

53:16

Jang, who's vanished recently. Usman

53:18

Jang, who's playing with the blue. They

53:21

expended three first round picks to

53:23

get him. I don't think the

53:25

expectations that he was going to play big minutes of the

53:27

season but I think they want to figure that out

53:30

and to me if you were going to make a trade, it would be

53:32

for a bigger forward that can defend and shoot

53:36

but that's kind of what they hope Jang can be

53:39

and so I

53:40

think that

53:42

where this is headed is perhaps

53:44

we see another deal that looks a little bit

53:46

like the Bertons deal or it looks like the

53:48

Dario Sharch deal at the trade deadline

53:51

last year where it's hey

53:53

this is really for the pick or this is really

53:56

to turn one of our middling

53:58

first round picks in the future into a much better. first

54:00

round pick in the future kind of trade and

54:02

then we get a player back we just so happen to get

54:04

somebody back and we deal Bertons and Poku

54:07

and then you know call it a day.

54:09

I can see that happening but I don't

54:11

really foresee them looking

54:13

at the market and saying like who can we

54:15

add here? I think they need to play a playoff

54:18

series before they can really know that. I

54:20

think they need to know exactly what they have through

54:23

a playoff series. Maybe they you know

54:26

get swept in the first round or something and it's like oh this

54:28

the glaring need is X and

54:30

they need to we can go we have the first

54:32

round picks we have the young players we have whatever

54:35

we need to go get that. I think

54:37

if this team does win 50 games

54:40

and it's mostly with this group they're

54:43

they can make then I think you can feel comfortable making

54:45

a deal next summer or before the season

54:47

or even in the season next year but

54:49

I would be floored if they made a deal

54:52

like for OGN and OB or somebody like that

54:55

during the season although they could that's

54:57

the kind of player that I would circle. Big forward.

55:00

They need a big forward to

55:02

play next to Chet that can shoot the ball that

55:04

can defend some of the best perimeter guys

55:07

and then you just let Chet, Chet,

55:10

Jadub cook. Now if you aim

55:12

high like that and acquire a player

55:14

of that caliber he's on my list but I'm gonna explain

55:16

like you I don't see that one oh who knows

55:19

I mean again who knows anything

55:21

could happen. Yeah. If you

55:23

just just if you got that player who

55:25

comes off the bench. If

55:29

like Josh Giddy is not in the deal it's probably Josh Giddy.

55:33

Okay that answers question number one because

55:36

like I said their starting lineup is pretty damn good and like Dort.

55:38

Yeah. Dort is probably

55:41

the quote-unquote worst of their five starters

55:43

or but he's the guy like PJ

55:45

Tucker who you kind of have

55:48

to start because the point of him is guard

55:50

the best guy on the other team who starts and

55:52

plays a ton of minutes.

55:53

Yep.

55:55

To your point on the playoffs that is something I

55:57

have heard trickling out of there is like The

56:00

playoffs are different than

56:02

a regular season. We got

56:04

to get there first and like, you know, we might not

56:06

be quite as good as our record, we'll, we'll see, right?

56:08

We got to learn and we'll

56:11

learn about the shortcomings of our roster,

56:14

whatever they are more about them

56:16

in a playoff setting and obviously Sam Presley,

56:18

we should mention at his preseason press conference,

56:22

um,

56:22

to hit the breaks pretty hard on

56:25

the idea that they're going to trade for a star that

56:27

said, oh yeah. So here, here

56:29

are three types of, let's have some fun. You

56:31

mentioned the end of an OB. There are three types of trades

56:34

they can make, but there are more than that, but

56:36

just let's take these three categories and

56:39

they can outbid anybody with draft equity, like

56:42

the luxury of this is like, okay, like we got,

56:44

we got so much stuff. Number one, you

56:46

can trade some picks and salary for

56:48

an expiring contract that you

56:51

kind of think is likely to walk and, or

56:53

don't care if they re-sign because it's just

56:55

not going to fit salary wise, yours wise. That

56:58

seems very unlikely to me that they would do that

57:00

because they did that's just not the thunder

57:02

way to burn assets that short-term.

57:06

Yeah. Asset management is crucial to

57:08

everything they do. They want to squeeze

57:10

every ounce out of every asset

57:13

possible. I mean, if you look at like what

57:15

they did with Carmelo Anthony, so many people like,

57:17

Oh, just wave Carmelo Anthony, just get him out of there. Like

57:19

he just needs to be gone. Here's the best way to do it. Like,

57:21

no, they traded him for Dennis Schruder and then they

57:23

traded Schruder for another

57:26

first round pick that eventually became Al

57:28

Horford. And then, I mean, they, they just keep

57:30

it going. Like they're not going to let something just

57:33

expire, especially a meaningful

57:35

path their way trade number

57:37

two is trade picks and

57:40

salary for an expiring contract connected

57:43

to a player you think would re-sign

57:46

and can re-sign on terms that

57:48

make sense to you. So that's

57:51

where an anobia would come in, except an anobia

57:53

is going to want like four years gigantic

57:56

amount of money, which isn't necessarily a deal

57:58

breaker because you have this cushion. until 2627 when

58:02

all these guys are getting paid and if you decide

58:04

you get a guy that good and you decide well he's

58:07

more important to us than Josh Giddy or John

58:09

Williams which seems unlikely to me but whoever

58:11

then you can trade the other guy if you don't

58:13

trade that guy to get this person in the first

58:15

place. However, the

58:18

ideal candidate is someone who like okay

58:20

I can resign this guy on a short

58:23

deal that gets out of our

58:25

books before the bill

58:27

comes due in 2627 so are you willing to

58:30

take a one plus one, a two plus one,

58:32

something like that. That guy's harder

58:34

to find. Boyan Bogdanovich

58:37

was my favorite candidate for that kind

58:39

of trade. Shooting, shooting, shooting.

58:41

Now this team leads the league in three point shooting. Maybe they don't

58:43

need any shooting but big forward, a

58:46

little older, a little more deliberate

58:51

than the sixth thunders style. Don't

58:53

love it. Anyone else come to

58:55

mind for you that fits that bill? Honestly,

58:58

there's not anybody that comes to mind. I also just wonder about

59:00

Isaiah Joe who's got an expiring deal

59:03

after next season. Can

59:06

they even keep him or he's going to come on

59:08

the list of like players that need 18 million

59:11

or 20 million. Level at the minimum. Yeah.

59:14

And so

59:15

I just I

59:16

don't have a lot on my mind because I haven't really

59:18

I can't dig in because I just

59:20

don't think it's going to happen. I'm going to throw two names at you. Throw

59:24

me some names back. You throw cold water on my face and

59:26

that's fine. Yes, this is I'm a wet

59:28

blanket. I've been called that many times. It's part

59:30

of my job where if I'm going to do this, I'm actually

59:32

going to go through the exercise of it. So then I just

59:35

tried to find the dream player. The

59:38

player who is a big forward

59:41

on a contract

59:42

that fits either salary wise

59:45

or this timetable where I want it either

59:47

ticked off or ticking off by 26, 27. A

59:50

guy who can help us right now because

59:54

we are good enough to justify

59:56

trying to win everything

59:58

right now. Every chance you get. is precious. We've

1:00:00

already learned that lesson. We don't need to revisit that every

1:00:02

year. You're never guaranteed another trip to whatever. We

1:00:05

all know.

1:00:08

And could be available for an outlay of draft

1:00:10

picks that is not outrageous. Does

1:00:12

PJ Washington do anything for you? Ooh,

1:00:17

I like PJ Washington. Is

1:00:19

he a tweener

1:00:21

in the wrong way though?

1:00:23

Is he going to be somebody that

1:00:25

you can really feel comfortable next to chat,

1:00:27

like big minutes? I don't know. See

1:00:30

that much better than Kenrich Williams. By the way,

1:00:32

these are guys that I'm aiming at. Like maybe they

1:00:34

come off the bench. Maybe we don't mess with the starting lineup.

1:00:36

So PJ Washington came off the bench last night for Charlotte

1:00:38

for the first time this season. That's

1:00:40

the name that, again, it's hard to find

1:00:43

this player who checks this box. It's

1:00:45

hard. A

1:00:47

player whose salary extends to

1:00:50

26-27, but declines and expires

1:00:52

that season. Kelton Johnson.

1:00:56

I

1:00:59

just don't know that he fits the way the Thunder play. He

1:01:01

does drive a lot. He drives a lot. He

1:01:04

does drive a lot.

1:01:05

I

1:01:07

wonder how comfortable he would be coming

1:01:10

to the Thunder, especially on a deal that's going to expire

1:01:12

and say, hey, Kelton Johnson, you're going to play a much smaller

1:01:14

role here with the Thunder. Are you comfortable taking

1:01:16

seven shots a game? Well, he's under contract for four

1:01:19

more years. So he doesn't have to worry about his money.

1:01:21

Yeah, that's true. That's a no for

1:01:24

me, Kelton Johnson.

1:01:25

This

1:01:30

goes back to like I went through the exercise. I went

1:01:32

through all 30 teams, 29 other teams. And

1:01:36

it just leads me, it led me to the conclusion

1:01:38

that you started with, which is I think the most

1:01:40

likely scenario is they more or less stand pat

1:01:42

in terms of their core rotation. Just

1:01:44

like, let's see what we got. Maybe

1:01:47

this by itself is our team in

1:01:50

five years. And by the way, maybe

1:01:52

with Giddy and J-Dub

1:01:55

and Chet, even if they all get maxes,

1:01:58

they all get the post to 25% max. And

1:02:01

maybe the cap spike comes

1:02:03

and continues in a way that it's actually feasible

1:02:05

for us to have Those three plus Shay

1:02:08

on the roster for at least a few years.

1:02:10

Maybe that happens, too But this team

1:02:12

you have it

1:02:13

go ahead.

1:02:14

I was gonna say they have a you have expansion coming you

1:02:17

have Potentially a new arena in

1:02:19

Oklahoma City you have the new TV deal So

1:02:21

like there are different revenue streams that are going

1:02:23

to come in at a pretty good

1:02:26

timing or the Thunder in this group So

1:02:28

so there is a good chance that they put they

1:02:31

give all those guys maxes But comfortable for

1:02:33

a few year stretch paying those guys

1:02:35

and I think you're right like they're

1:02:38

not gonna make the hard mistake again I think if you could

1:02:40

go back and redo everything

1:02:42

maybe you still trade him, but maybe you wait

1:02:44

a year Maybe you give it another year. Maybe

1:02:47

you let yourself have one more run and

1:02:49

then you make the deal So I can

1:02:51

foresee them just standing pat

1:02:53

with this group and trying to move forward

1:02:57

But you know, this is the this is the

1:02:59

cushy time for the Thunder like this is the fun

1:03:01

part Like this is the absolute fun

1:03:04

part for the fan base for the front office

1:03:06

for the team We

1:03:08

all know that it doesn't last for everybody Like

1:03:11

it's gonna rain on the Thunder franchise at some

1:03:13

point like it's coming and I don't think that

1:03:15

they're unprepared for it I think that they're ready.

1:03:17

I think they're more ready than they were last time but that

1:03:19

win in Golden State and overtime In

1:03:23

a game that the Warriors were desperate to get Finally

1:03:26

ended their losing streak at home last night against the Rockets

1:03:28

who we're gonna talk about in a minute That

1:03:31

was one of those wins that you just

1:03:34

in sharpie right down like okay.

1:03:36

This is a real team It's like yeah, I I

1:03:39

I Talk about this

1:03:41

all the time Sacramento winning game

1:03:43

six in Golden State last year stamped

1:03:45

them is like all right. This is a real team It seems got

1:03:47

guts. Yeah, it's got it's got courage. It's got poise.

1:03:51

It's a real it's a real team This

1:03:53

wasn't a playoff game, but like that was a boy,

1:03:56

and I don't look

1:03:58

chat. I Hope

1:04:01

I hope the nasty

1:04:05

and the trash talk never gets

1:04:07

like thundered out of Chet

1:04:09

Holmgren. I love that he went

1:04:11

at Wemenyama's offensive

1:04:14

foul on Twitter in the preseason. Remember

1:04:16

that? Oh yeah. I love

1:04:18

that the slow-mo replays

1:04:21

of him after hitting that three in Golden State

1:04:23

caught him saying some choice words

1:04:25

with a very mean face. I

1:04:27

love every bit of it. Every team

1:04:30

needs a little bit of that and although the

1:04:32

other guys aren't as verbal and don't have

1:04:34

as much gusto with it, there is a nastiness

1:04:36

to this team that I really would like. The

1:04:39

physicality of Dort and Jaylen Williams. Chet

1:04:42

plays with just such,

1:04:44

and I mean this in a good way, such an arrogant

1:04:47

bravado to his like I can get

1:04:50

whatever I want

1:04:51

whenever I want and I

1:04:53

know it. This

1:04:56

team is absolutely for real. I'm going to be wrong

1:04:58

saying that they were a 44, 43, 45, 46 win team. They're

1:05:01

going to be better than that. Before we move around

1:05:04

some of these other young teams real quickly, is there anything

1:05:06

you wanted to hit about this team

1:05:08

that we didn't hit?

1:05:11

Yeah I mean I think that maybe there were some lingering

1:05:13

questions about who Chet is, but

1:05:15

he's shown up and has averaged

1:05:18

basically 30 points a game this season and

1:05:21

he's not getting to the free throw line. He's doing it a little bit differently

1:05:23

than he did last year. He's shooting six and

1:05:25

a half free throws per game. He is

1:05:27

just murdering in the mid range and

1:05:29

is getting whatever he wants whenever he wants

1:05:32

and adding Chet has just helped that

1:05:34

tremendously. Chet

1:05:37

has entered the rare category of players

1:05:40

that

1:05:42

my wife will knock on my office door. Why

1:05:45

are you laughing so hard? It's

1:05:48

like the yokage group. And

1:05:51

I'm like, Chet just did this

1:05:53

thing in the mid range that was just comical.

1:05:56

Just straight up like what? So

1:06:00

he's in the he's in the yokach group. Okay.

1:06:02

Can we go around the horn on three young teams? I mentioned

1:06:04

this changing of the guard kind of thing that's

1:06:07

happening. I did the Pacers a couple weeks ago So we'll leave

1:06:09

them aside. Tyreese Halliburton is just unbelievable

1:06:12

in the amount of Tyreese Halliburton regret pinging

1:06:16

around the top 11 in that

1:06:18

draft is Growing

1:06:20

deeper and deeper and

1:06:22

deeper especially with every Pouty

1:06:26

Chicago Bulls loss. Oh

1:06:28

boy Yeah, the pet I've been on Pat

1:06:31

Williams Island for four years and I've

1:06:33

watched all the residents around me Hop

1:06:36

on planes to other other our

1:06:38

key our key pelagi our key pelagos

1:06:40

whatever. Okay The

1:06:43

other team I mentioned that people constantly bring

1:06:45

up is like keep an eye on this team It's not Oklahoma

1:06:47

City in terms of draft equity. They've already used

1:06:50

a lot of the equity they got in trades But

1:06:52

something's cooking there your Lando Magic are

1:06:55

eight and five They have the number

1:06:58

one defense in the entire NBA They

1:07:01

have under Jamal Mosley Sort

1:07:04

of become like very quietly this

1:07:07

bully ball team they are first

1:07:09

in free throw rate first in number

1:07:11

of shots at the rim and There's

1:07:14

nothing in their defensive metrics that

1:07:16

suggests that there's a lot of luck happening there

1:07:19

now They can't shoot on offense at all. They're 25th in offense

1:07:23

but they've got Franz and they've got Paulo and then

1:07:28

it's sort of like Everyone's

1:07:31

kind of waiting to see like is there another move to

1:07:33

be made when is that other move gonna

1:07:35

be made? What are all these

1:07:38

guards amounting to know I I'm officially

1:07:40

in on jail and sugs. I mean, I want him

1:07:42

on my job I know his shooting has

1:07:44

been a struggle 34 percent on threes 47 percent on twos I

1:07:47

want him on my team the guys a winner. I'm keeping

1:07:50

them. I The shot

1:07:52

creation just kind of hasn't been there. The defense

1:07:54

is legit. Do you believe in the Oklahoma

1:07:57

in the Orlando Magic? I Do

1:07:59

I? I think that they just need to figure out how

1:08:01

to play 48 minute games. They've

1:08:03

been the best first half team in

1:08:06

the NBA so far this season. I'd

1:08:09

said this on the Athletic NBA Show

1:08:11

on Slam and Jam on Friday, but they were first

1:08:14

in defense, third in offense in the first half. And

1:08:16

the second half, 30th in

1:08:19

offense, 16th in defense, 29th

1:08:21

in net rating in the second half. So

1:08:23

they can figure out how to close games and kind

1:08:25

of keep what they have going on in the first half going.

1:08:28

And a lot of it's shooting, like the shooting just falls off

1:08:30

like crazy. And then when the shooting falls off, the effort

1:08:33

falls off a little bit. Once they figure

1:08:35

that out, and this is kind of young team stuff.

1:08:38

Play great in one particular quarter,

1:08:40

play terrible in another particular quarter. That's

1:08:43

the hallmark of a young team. Hollow

1:08:46

is still 21. Franz is 22. Now

1:08:48

Jalen Lusugs is 22. Anthony Black, who's

1:08:51

starting to play a little bit more, is 20, who

1:08:53

I think could play a huge role for them moving forward.

1:08:57

He's taking a little bit of threes. I'd like to see him take

1:08:59

a little bit more, test that out a little bit, but he's

1:09:01

not billed as some shooter or anything. But the

1:09:03

shooting is gonna be the thing that they need the most.

1:09:06

And the Joe Ingalls experiment hasn't

1:09:08

worked out so well so far. They need

1:09:10

to find some shooting. Like

1:09:13

that's really what they need. But they're on

1:09:15

their way. I mean, I think that they've got some really

1:09:18

high level young players. It's

1:09:20

gonna take a little bit more time, but boy,

1:09:22

I like what the magic are building. Your point about

1:09:24

shooting there, 27th in free point shooting,

1:09:26

30th out of 30 in mid-range shooting,

1:09:29

and 20th at the rim. In total,

1:09:32

if an average team had their

1:09:35

shot selection, like where the shots come from on

1:09:37

the court, they would be number one

1:09:39

in effective field goal percentage. The magic

1:09:41

are 27th in effective

1:09:44

field goal percentage. Both Franz and Paolo

1:09:46

are shooting poorly, and the guards

1:09:48

are just kind of a mystery box. Now Foltz has been hurt

1:09:51

for a few games. I think something

1:09:54

is happening here. Like the toughness and

1:09:56

physicality that they play with, they're an incredible

1:09:58

rebounding team too. I mentioned the bully. ball stuff there's

1:10:00

six in offensive rebounding

1:10:02

and sixth in defensive rebounding. They

1:10:05

foul a lot which is fine because they get to the

1:10:07

line even more than they allow free

1:10:09

throws. Their offense just isn't good

1:10:12

because they can't shoot. I

1:10:14

don't know what the next move is for them. You

1:10:19

know if they're going to be a winning team like this they

1:10:21

may just kind of punt it until the

1:10:23

offseason and going forward and just sort of see what

1:10:26

they have in some of the things that we haven't seen yet Howard

1:10:28

at all.

1:10:30

And that can be fine for if this team

1:10:32

is going to be a winning team and I think the defense is legit.

1:10:35

I mentioned them as a you

1:10:38

know in my theoretical list of teams

1:10:40

who make some sense for the disgruntled Zach Levine

1:10:42

who has taken 19 shots in the Bulls last two

1:10:44

games. I

1:10:47

mentioned the magic as just sort of generally

1:10:49

the need for shot creation shooting

1:10:52

and the fact that they could put him in a third option

1:10:54

kind of role where I think he belongs I'm not going to be a labor

1:10:56

this I did a whole Levine thing last week. The

1:10:59

more I think about it the more I

1:11:02

don't think that's the one for me if I'm

1:11:04

Orlando it doesn't fit everything that I'm

1:11:06

doing. The outlay of picks

1:11:08

to get him may not be that big

1:11:10

but I just particularly because

1:11:13

they could have like 60 million dollars in cap

1:11:15

space this summer depending on what they do with some of

1:11:17

these options on Isaac and

1:11:19

other things. Isaac's been good by the way their net

1:11:21

rating with Isaac plus 10 per hundred possessions

1:11:23

just doesn't play there. I just like that's

1:11:25

not the one I'm going to live to fight another day on that

1:11:28

one but this is something fun is

1:11:30

happening in Orlando. Yeah

1:11:33

and I just would love to see more shot creation development

1:11:36

from Paulo and in France like

1:11:38

those are those are your guys like you have to let them cook

1:11:40

you don't I wouldn't want to bring in somebody

1:11:43

that's going to take 20 shots a game

1:11:45

from from this pool of shots

1:11:48

I'd rather put in more complimentary guys

1:11:51

that can just shoot the basketball and it's not

1:11:53

always easy to find but if they can find a few

1:11:55

of those guys just put them around maybe

1:11:57

it's maybe it's Caleb Houston who's considered a

1:11:59

little bit jet-hacked. Maybe they give those

1:12:01

guys a shot here, but

1:12:03

I don't know. I like what they're doing. I think they're on a They're

1:12:06

on a fine track. Don't don't do anything

1:12:09

magic Just stay the course rapid-fire

1:12:12

a couple more teams that I haven't talked that much about That

1:12:14

are in this category if this team's a little ahead

1:12:17

and proven I just want to hit the Kings

1:12:19

who have had a weird season because Fox

1:12:21

has missed a few games. They are Eight

1:12:25

and four I believe no eight and

1:12:27

five sorry eight and five They got the door low and

1:12:29

up them in New Orleans last night, but they are six

1:12:31

and two with the Aaron Fox Plus

1:12:35

six per 100 possessions with him on the floor

1:12:40

I I was high on the Kings coming into the

1:12:42

season. I think they're over under was 44 and a half I

1:12:44

was like over

1:12:46

over

1:12:47

over they proved something to me They

1:12:49

have continuity that Warriors series

1:12:51

really showed me something. I still

1:12:53

feel pretty good about that particularly

1:12:56

the record with Fox Their

1:12:58

defense has actually been kind of okay so

1:13:00

far this season Teams

1:13:03

are still shooting like gangbusters at the rim and

1:13:06

on threes and so second year. Oh that's

1:13:08

happened That just may be the Kings It's just

1:13:10

like we know some bonuses or in protectors and scaring

1:13:12

anybody and the thing about the Kings

1:13:15

on the wing is they're not Big and so

1:13:17

the shot contest you hear this from some of their coaches

1:13:19

like maybe it's just our size Like we can't contest shots

1:13:22

that well, but I think this is a legit good

1:13:25

team and Fox is just He's

1:13:28

averaging 30 a game and he's he's a guy

1:13:30

like he's just he's not quite Shay

1:13:33

But he's really really good and

1:13:35

can get his shot wherever he wants.

1:13:38

What interests you about the Kings? Well,

1:13:41

they're just not even shooting the ball that well yet and

1:13:43

they're going to like that's that's on its

1:13:46

way I mean Keegan Murray hasn't shot the ball

1:13:48

well yet And you can still like you can see the improvements

1:13:50

that he's made it as a player like overall as a player He's

1:13:53

improved his shot isn't falling yet Taking

1:13:55

seven threes a game. I love that keep

1:13:58

taking seven threes a game Keegan Murray because that Shot's

1:14:00

gonna fall at some point. He's at 28%

1:14:03

from three once that rises That's gonna

1:14:05

help the team so much Kevin Herter started shoot a little

1:14:07

bit better, too I

1:14:08

just think

1:14:09

they're fast as lightning. They make quick

1:14:11

decisions Sabonis has been awesome

1:14:14

so far this season 2012 and 7 whoo

1:14:17

or domos shooting 62% from

1:14:19

the feel more thunder power forward Domonta

1:14:21

Sabonis Former stretch

1:14:23

for for the Thunder But

1:14:25

he's he's been impressive. I

1:14:27

just think The shooting is

1:14:30

gonna come it's gonna happen They're going to have

1:14:32

a few weeks where they're just gonna

1:14:34

be lights out and that offensive rating

1:14:36

is gonna rise The three-point percentage is gonna

1:14:38

rise They are who they are.

1:14:40

Is this a team that can make it far in the playoffs? It doesn't

1:14:43

feel like it just because when things slow

1:14:45

down like like you said the defense is just

1:14:47

not gonna be there but for the regular

1:14:49

season Like this team is awesome

1:14:51

And if you don't make the playoffs for 16 years

1:14:54

in a row and this is the team that you get

1:14:56

you should be so happy Light the

1:14:58

beam like this is good. I

1:15:01

Think they can do damage in the playoffs I

1:15:03

think they would have beaten the Warriors last year

1:15:06

had De'Aaron Fox not broken the tip

1:15:08

of these index finger on his shooting hand In

1:15:11

four I believe of that series. Yeah,

1:15:13

if they win that series now If not that they still

1:15:16

like to take it to seven and require a

1:15:18

Steph 50 burger Everything's

1:15:21

a burger these days 50 burger in

1:15:24

game seven like that was a solid showing

1:15:26

for them You mentioned when things slow down

1:15:28

the thing about the Kings that I love is they don't slow down

1:15:30

like they don't believe in This like the game

1:15:32

changes in the strip. We're gonna just do our stuff

1:15:35

and The best thing about Sabonis

1:15:37

not the best but one of the best things is he's an incredible

1:15:40

rebounder They are second

1:15:42

and defensive rebounding which is critical for

1:15:44

them because all of that turns into like Fox Just hit

1:15:46

a layup like just a meeting just in me all like oh

1:15:48

there goes Darren Fox Beep beep can't do anything

1:15:50

to stop him This team

1:15:53

I have no hard reporting on this I

1:15:57

said it before the season I

1:16:00

would just watch the Kings on the trade

1:16:02

market. They owe one pick to Atlanta

1:16:04

via the Herder deal and that's it. And that

1:16:06

expires fairly soon. It's not one of those things

1:16:08

that encumbers them forever. And

1:16:11

when people ask me about the Kings, how

1:16:13

far can they... We talk about it on NBA today quite

1:16:16

a bit. Like, what are the Kings really? How

1:16:18

far can they... Like when they blew the Lakers out last week and

1:16:20

spawned this, like, what is this team? And

1:16:23

I said, I think they're a good team. Can win a round

1:16:25

in the playoffs. You maybe have to match up, break right, or

1:16:27

you're healthy as they always seem to be. Maybe

1:16:30

two if you got real lucky. I

1:16:32

just don't think... Apologies

1:16:35

to all these players who are all fine players. I

1:16:39

don't think you can be a serious, serious,

1:16:41

capital S serious team if

1:16:43

you're starting two, three and

1:16:45

four. Or Kevin Herder, Tegan

1:16:48

Murray, who's going to be very good, but

1:16:51

is young, and Harrison Barnes. I just don't think

1:16:53

that's good enough on just

1:16:55

a raw talent level. And...

1:16:59

I think this team is eager to be good enough. I

1:17:02

think they have the ammo to get in on some of these discussions.

1:17:05

I mentioned them as a Levine possibility.

1:17:08

Don't love it, because I just don't know that there's

1:17:10

any roadmap to like a top 20 defense built

1:17:12

around Fox, Levine, and Sabonis. Offensively,

1:17:15

that's the right role for him. Third option,

1:17:18

cut, finish, shoot threes, run

1:17:20

in transition, perfect fit offensively.

1:17:23

So in that sense, I could see it. Like, let's just be number

1:17:25

one in offensive, number 20 in defense and see where

1:17:27

it gets us. They have the

1:17:29

salary to do it starting January 15, I think. Don't

1:17:33

love it again. Depending on the prices,

1:17:35

don't love it defensively. But I think they're

1:17:37

going to... Again, I have no hard reporting. This

1:17:39

is just common sense. And... I

1:17:42

think they're going to be inactive, just sniffing around

1:17:45

in the next six to 18

1:17:47

months for like another piece next to Fox

1:17:49

and Sabonis. Yeah,

1:17:52

and they're trying stuff with the bench. I mean, they traded

1:17:54

for Chris Duarte. They're starting

1:17:56

to use him. He's played a little bit better recently,

1:17:58

but has not played great out of the... I'm

1:18:01

kind of a Keon Ellis guy. I kind of liked

1:18:03

him in the draft. I think that he can do a little bit But

1:18:07

yeah, I think they could use some bench help

1:18:09

for sure. He's Briefly supplanted

1:18:11

Davion Mitchell in their rotation earlier this

1:18:13

week. That's something to monitor like If

1:18:17

Davion Mitchell just turns into a whiff that

1:18:19

yeah, it's kind of a bummer because

1:18:22

defensively he's just unbelievable Mm-hmm.

1:18:25

I just I like their team I think they're good as

1:18:28

is it just depends on how like

1:18:30

their appetite for it like they can just keep this team Be

1:18:32

really good Play in

1:18:34

playoffs depending on health in the West and like

1:18:37

everyone's happy like you said just like everyone psyched How

1:18:41

long are they willing to be in that spot?

1:18:44

last team the Houston Rockets Talked

1:18:47

a lot about it where they were six and two or whatever

1:18:50

they were. They are now six and six oh

1:18:52

and five on the road Lost

1:18:55

to the Warriors last night in Golden State Congrats

1:18:58

to the Warriors. They really needed that one.

1:19:00

I am all warrior out discussion

1:19:02

wise That tends to

1:19:04

happen when there's a Draymond thing and there was obviously

1:19:07

a Draymond thing The

1:19:09

Rockets what to make of the Rockets

1:19:11

who are 17th in offense six

1:19:15

in defense Somehow despite

1:19:17

fouling the hell out of everybody

1:19:19

people aren't getting to the rim against them. They get every

1:19:21

rebound

1:19:22

Shangoon has been incredible. Shangoon

1:19:24

might make the all-star team this year by the way. Yeah

1:19:28

Van Vliet 38% overall 41%

1:19:30

on twos. That's the van Vliet experience.

1:19:32

He just doesn't shoot well on twos Jalen

1:19:35

Green is off to a slow start Their

1:19:37

benches is not it's not going

1:19:40

great back up center is like a black hole The Jaco

1:19:42

Landau thing hasn't worked out, you

1:19:44

know look

1:19:45

to me. This is all Just

1:19:47

fun times for the Rockets It doesn't feel

1:19:49

like that because they spent so much on van Vliet and

1:19:52

Dylan Brooks and tried to get Brooke Lopez And

1:19:54

I think thankfully for them failed Yep,

1:19:58

what do you make it? What do you make of this team? Do you? believe

1:20:00

that this is as a fan of a team

1:20:03

that owns their pick, Houston's

1:20:05

pick top four protected, which I said in

1:20:07

the preseason, it's a sneaky

1:20:10

valuable pick. Could be a top

1:20:12

ten pick. What

1:20:14

do you make of this team? It's been a weird start. I mean,

1:20:18

Schengen's for real. It's like the kind of

1:20:20

the first thing that I make of it. He can just

1:20:22

play around the hoop just as

1:20:24

well as just about anybody. He

1:20:29

rebounds, incredible passer. He's

1:20:32

really good. I mean, Van Vliet and Dylan Brooks

1:20:35

are filling their roles for them. They're playing Jeff

1:20:37

Green, you know, a good amount. Back

1:20:41

up five, Jeff Green and Jay Sean Tate are kind of like

1:20:43

co-backups. Like not necessarily

1:20:46

the way it

1:20:47

was planned.

1:20:48

Yeah, doesn't seem like it. I'm a

1:20:51

little disappointed that and what

1:20:53

you want out of this is for

1:20:56

Van Vliet and Dylan Brooks to accentuate

1:20:58

the young guys and for them to rise up

1:21:00

and to be the guys that actually take your team somewhere.

1:21:03

And Schengen has done that. Jaylen Green

1:21:05

has had a disappointing start. They can't

1:21:07

play him in some spots. Defensively, he's a mess.

1:21:10

He loves to create one-on-one and he's

1:21:13

pretty good at it, but that he's

1:21:15

still a work in progress. Jibari Smith Jr. has had

1:21:18

a much lesser role because

1:21:21

he kind of occupies some of the same stuff that

1:21:23

Dylan Brooks would do and these other guys. So I

1:21:25

don't like it for that because I do think Jibari Smith

1:21:27

can be a very good NBA player. I think

1:21:30

he still will be, but the fact

1:21:32

that he's not really getting the chance to shine, I don't love

1:21:34

that. But I mean, they're gonna have a chance to make

1:21:36

the play in. Like they're gonna

1:21:38

be competitive. I mean, they've lost three

1:21:40

games in a row, but they were all super competitive

1:21:42

to good teams. A good team that really

1:21:46

needed to win those games. Yeah,

1:21:48

I mean, the Clippers, I mean, who needed to win more

1:21:50

than the Clippers did. Lost to

1:21:52

the Lakers by one and then

1:21:55

Golden State, who was also desperate

1:21:57

on this like big skid and they just could

1:21:59

not lose. to the Houston Rockets. So

1:22:02

I give them a lot of credit. I think

1:22:04

that they have a ways to go, but

1:22:07

so far like the returns are good. They play really

1:22:09

hard and that's honestly what you want to see. After

1:22:11

we watched the Rockets over the last few years where

1:22:14

they're a mess, they're not playing

1:22:16

hard, they just can't win games, the

1:22:18

fact that they're playing hard and they have some

1:22:20

organization around Shanguin is a great sign

1:22:23

for them. All last

1:22:25

year I was saying the lowest hanging fruit on this team

1:22:27

is will you just give Shanguin the goddamn ball?

1:22:29

Just give him the ball, let him run the offense through

1:22:31

the elbows, post him up like and they've done

1:22:34

despite getting too high usage ball

1:22:36

handling guards and Fred Van Villien, Dylan Brooks who

1:22:38

likes to shoot. They've

1:22:40

done that and it's worked. I'm still all

1:22:42

in on Jabari Smith Jr. 12.6

1:22:45

points a game, seven rebounds, only

1:22:48

shooting 34% on threes but 60% on

1:22:51

twos. I just think he's a winner. I

1:22:53

like the way he defends across every position.

1:22:55

I'd like to see a little more of him at backup

1:22:58

five just to see more of how it looks.

1:23:00

I love

1:23:01

him, Shanguin's awesome.

1:23:04

Jalen Green, I mean he's the biggest wild

1:23:06

card maybe in the entire league over the next

1:23:08

three or four years. I

1:23:11

still don't have a good feel for like sixth

1:23:14

in defense feels like I'm not even

1:23:16

sure how that's happening. Shanguin

1:23:18

to his credit has been way better on that end

1:23:21

of the floor. They are getting, their

1:23:23

opponents are shooting 33% on threes

1:23:25

which I think is the third most in the league. They're getting

1:23:27

a little lucky in that sense but they're doing

1:23:29

a lot of things right. I

1:23:32

didn't think they'd be that close

1:23:34

to 500 honestly before the season. I

1:23:37

thought like 30 wins like I thought

1:23:39

they were just gonna be kind of a bad team

1:23:42

which would be good for the Thunder.

1:23:45

If you asked me to guess their win total now

1:23:47

that they're six and six and looking pretty solid,

1:23:49

I think I would still guess like 34 to 36. I maybe

1:23:55

just overly pessimistic. I just kind of want to see

1:23:57

more. Yeah there's

1:23:59

been teams that are are underperformed in the West.

1:24:02

And these these teams will get better. The West is still

1:24:04

gonna be just ridiculous

1:24:06

by the end of the scene. I mean the Clippers are going to be better

1:24:09

than they have been and they've started to pick it up a little bit. I

1:24:11

think the Warriors will hit a stride at some point. The

1:24:14

Pelicans have been the team that I

1:24:16

have some of the most questions about because I don't

1:24:18

really have a feel for what they are

1:24:20

and some of that may just be Zion up and

1:24:22

down. Phoenix hasn't been healthy. There's

1:24:25

a lot of factors here. But

1:24:27

when you look at it, is Memphis

1:24:29

gonna get it together? Are the Jazz

1:24:32

just gonna be a lottery team? Seems like it. Yep.

1:24:34

Trailblazers are terrible. Spurs

1:24:36

are not good. Who's

1:24:39

gonna be out? I would be floored if it

1:24:41

were the Clippers that were

1:24:44

completely out of it. There's a Thunder on their pick

1:24:46

too. But which

1:24:48

of these teams is gonna fall out? The Thunder on

1:24:50

the Intuit Dome? Was

1:24:53

that part of the trade? It

1:24:55

feels like it sometimes. But it does feel like Houston's

1:24:58

the team that's most likely to be 11th out

1:25:00

of this group. But the

1:25:03

way that they have played under Imee Yudoka

1:25:06

so far, I wouldn't be shocked if

1:25:08

they were in and we saw New

1:25:10

Orleans or a team like that

1:25:12

on the outside looking at it. I guess this is a good

1:25:15

way to frame it. I think they're better than

1:25:17

Utah, who I was low on before

1:25:20

the season. Memphis

1:25:22

is just kind of like how deep does the hole get

1:25:25

when a rant comes back? It's hard

1:25:27

to... I mean, if they

1:25:29

just go on a random three game winning streak right now,

1:25:32

they're six and ten. The Warriors

1:25:34

are tenth and they're under 500. Portland's

1:25:38

out. San Antonio's out. I'm confident

1:25:40

Houston is definitely better than Utah, Portland,

1:25:42

and San Antonio. That's obvious. Memphis currently,

1:25:45

yes. So yeah, maybe 11th

1:25:47

is the floor maybe for Houston. It's just

1:25:50

the win total is TBD. But 11th

1:25:52

in the West, I think, is officially their

1:25:54

floor. They have separated themselves from

1:25:57

those other teams, which hasn't been difficult with

1:25:59

Portland and San Antonio. Antonio, but they're, if

1:26:01

you saw it is, and they're

1:26:04

pretty good in Phoenix. Like we

1:26:06

just keep waiting to figure out like, how do

1:26:08

we even talk about Phoenix? Like I just, in

1:26:10

New Orleans is a city like

1:26:12

New Orleans. I can't even every New Orleans

1:26:14

game. I watch like,

1:26:16

Oh, that guy's in street close. Oh, what happened

1:26:18

to Larry Nance? Larry answers out tonight. Oh,

1:26:21

Herb's back. Herb Jones is back. Just

1:26:23

blocked a shot and, and

1:26:25

went out for a dunk and

1:26:27

Oh, Jordan Hawkins is taking 19 shots

1:26:29

tonight. Okay. Um, I

1:26:31

like Jordan Hawkins, Nadji Marshall's back. Jose

1:26:35

Alvarado came back last night and got a huge, he

1:26:37

did from the crowd. That was an awesome, awesome

1:26:39

moment. Um,

1:26:41

those are the two teams where I'm just like, I guess

1:26:43

I just got to wait like 10 more games. Like kind

1:26:45

of credit to New Orleans for being seven and seven.

1:26:47

Oh

1:26:48

yeah. All this Phoenix. I'm just like,

1:26:50

Oh, okay. Like I guess we'll see. I don't know.

1:26:53

Andrew Schlecht. Uh, what else can we talk about? We

1:26:55

got the slam and jam. We got down to dunk. We got

1:26:57

athletic NBA podcast. We got,

1:27:00

what else we got?

1:27:02

Yeah, that's about it. I do another patron show called

1:27:04

the OKC dream team.

1:27:06

Um, so

1:27:07

you can find that on patreon.com but yeah, down to dunk

1:27:09

is the, the place where you can find my thunder coverage and

1:27:11

then the athletic NBA show on

1:27:13

Fridays we do the slam and jam. Uh, we just

1:27:15

got Josh Eustace who is from,

1:27:18

uh, played for the thunder. He's on our Monday

1:27:20

show with Zach Harper and Jay King. Very fun

1:27:22

show. Very fun show. Josh Eustace was famously

1:27:26

what was, he was

1:27:27

like, he was the first round and sent to the G league.

1:27:29

Was that he was the first one that happened to?

1:27:32

Yup. Picked in the, in the late first round,

1:27:34

sent to the G league for a year and then played

1:27:36

for the team. A brilliant guy. Really funny

1:27:39

guy. So yeah, he's joined our network and

1:27:41

he's, he's a joy. He's a delight. You never know what the

1:27:43

thunder are up to. There's always

1:27:45

up to something. There's always something around the

1:27:47

corner, you know, and it's just very well. All things thunder

1:27:50

and general NBA. Andrew Schlecht, you're one of the very

1:27:52

best. Thank you for your time. I owe you

1:27:54

a podcast appearance on a, I

1:27:56

guess one of your many podcasts of your choice.

1:27:59

Please ask me anything. time and everyone

1:28:01

should listen to all his stuff. Maybe I'll see you in

1:28:03

Oklahoma City this year.

1:28:04

Who knows? Hey,

1:28:06

that'd be great. All right, thanks buddy. Love

1:28:08

that. Thanks Zach.