0:03

Welcome to season four of the Manifesta

0:05

podcast , a career and lifestyle

0:07

podcast for aspiring women . I'm

0:09

Portia Mount . Join me and my co-host

0:11

, tiffany Waddell-Tate , this season on

0:13

our mission to help women find their purpose , lead

0:16

high-impact careers and live fulfilling

0:18

personal lives by sharing the stories

0:20

of women who've carved their own path to

0:22

success . The future is female

0:24

. Let's get started . Well

0:30

, hello squad . Our guest today is

0:32

Julie Goff , chief Operating Officer

0:34

at HireBrain . Julie

0:36

is an entrepreneur turned entrepreneur

0:38

, with a career at the intersection

0:41

of people and technology . She

0:43

has led technology initiatives of varying

0:45

sizes and scales at the enterprise

0:47

level and zero to one launches

0:49

, and throughout her work

0:52

, she remains ever curious about

0:54

how technology can help make us

0:56

more , not less , human

0:58

. I love the sound of that . Now

1:00

you're probably wondering what is HireBrain . Hirebrain

1:03

is a B2B SaaS platform

1:05

uniquely designed for hiring managers

1:07

to assist in the ever challenging work

1:09

of planning roles , hiring talent

1:12

, building efficient teams with accuracy

1:14

and reliability , and if you are a people manager

1:16

, you know how important this is . Hirebrain

1:19

leverages AI to help enterprises create

1:21

role specific profiles , effective

1:23

and equitable job descriptions , interview guides

1:26

and so much more . You can

1:28

learn more about HireBrain at wwwhirebraincom

1:33

and you can follow Julie on

1:35

Twitter . We still call it Twitter , but

1:38

we know it's X at Julia Pete

1:40

Goff and LinkedIn at Julie

1:42

Goff , and so you will also see

1:45

these in the show notes , as always

1:47

, so that you can both follow Julie

1:49

and also take a look at HireBrain

1:52

. Welcome , julie , so great to have

1:54

you , thank you .

1:56

Yeah , Julie . So this episode

1:58

is all about entrepreneurship at work

2:01

, but I think it's important that we define

2:03

what that means for our listeners . How

2:06

would you describe entrepreneurship and what

2:08

it means to you ?

2:09

Well , I love that question , and I first

2:11

have to kind of laugh at the notion

2:14

that we're having a podcast on entrepreneurship

2:16

, because I came

2:18

to that . I discovered that word relatively

2:21

late in my career , relative to the work

2:23

I was doing , so I don't know where I

2:25

was or what I was doing at the time , but I just remember

2:28

hearing it for the first time and

2:30

having this like moment of like oh

2:32

my goodness , there's a word that describes

2:34

me , right , somebody gets

2:36

it , and I did a little research this

2:38

morning about the origin of that word

2:41

and apparently it came about in the 70s

2:43

, like I didn't even know , and

2:45

so I just heard it in my travels

2:48

as I was doing the work that I was passionate

2:50

about , and I was like an entrepreneur

2:52

. That is what I am . I love it

2:54

. There's a word for me . I'm not just weird , but

2:58

I think the way that I would define

3:00

it and it's interesting and kind

3:02

of reassuring that my definition matches up

3:04

with , maybe , the way the world would define it but I

3:07

think it's a person who is

3:09

just naturally curious , right

3:11

? We know that this is true about entrepreneurs

3:13

especially , right ? They just have that burning

3:16

. Oh my gosh , this is a problem that

3:18

I have to solve , right , I have to stop

3:20

everything , and I think that can . Still

3:23

, if you're naturally curious , that's going

3:25

to show up no matter what environment you're

3:27

in , right . And so I think if you're doing

3:29

good work at a corporation and you're close

3:31

to a business , a business

3:33

with challenges , a business with potential , right

3:36

, you're going to be

3:38

curious , see ways that things

3:40

can be done better . If you're a

3:42

curious person , you're going to be curious outside

3:44

of work as well , right , and you're going to start to connect

3:46

dots and ask questions and think about

3:48

things . And so I think an entrepreneur or somebody

3:51

who's going to bring that curiosity to their

3:53

day job is not going to be afraid

3:55

to with the right respect

3:57

, right , and posture , ask

3:59

questions , think about how

4:01

things could be done differently and then

4:03

not be afraid to take on the doing

4:05

right . I think it's easy inside of

4:07

a larger organization where there are a lot of problems , to

4:10

be grumpy , to complain

4:12

, and that's that doesn't cut it

4:14

for me , right . Like I think , if you're

4:16

going to be an entrepreneur , you have to see where it's

4:18

broken and be ready to help solve the problems .

4:21

It sounds like being super curious

4:23

and someone who is not just identifying

4:26

problems and calling them out , but looking

4:28

for solutions probably

4:30

means that you come up with a lot of

4:32

big ideas . You're probably on the cutting

4:35

edge of innovation and

4:37

just driving creativity at a really

4:39

fast speed . So I'm

4:41

wondering , when you think about harnessing

4:44

that mindset inside of an organization

4:46

, how does it contribute to

4:48

company culture and how does

4:51

it contribute to your career

4:53

right , especially as an ambitious woman ?

4:55

Yeah , so at any big organization

4:58

, I think , especially early in your career

5:00

, as you're sort of getting into the business

5:02

, learning the company , learning how to do what you do

5:04

, there's this sort of idea

5:07

that the C-suite has it all figured out

5:09

right .

5:10

They do not . People , they do not .

5:13

The board is going to lead us on a flawless path to

5:15

growth . Right , and especially

5:18

when you get into those leadership positions and you realize

5:20

how little we know . Right , leadership is

5:22

making the best decisions in the moment

5:24

with the information that you have . Right , and being

5:26

sort of courageous enough to keep going . And

5:29

I think as entrepreneurs we

5:31

can be the people that have the creative

5:33

space right , the energy , to

5:36

look at these problems and think about them creatively

5:38

, because our C-suite often

5:41

is dealing with so much you know

5:43

they're living in kind of that cognitive poverty

5:45

state . That's not good for creativity

5:47

, right , and that's just reality

5:50

. Right , if you're leading the company , you

5:52

don't necessarily have the bandwidth

5:54

, the time , the ability

5:57

to take a step back and sort of think creatively

5:59

and tinker . So , as an entrepreneur

6:01

, right , the day to day is off your shoulders

6:03

. You can look sort of with fresh

6:06

eyes at problems and sort of bring

6:08

that creativity , that

6:10

innovation to a particular problem

6:13

. And I think I like the word

6:15

mindset , because that means lots

6:17

of people have to be thinking that way at the same time

6:19

. Right , and I think companies

6:22

are going to take that step

6:24

forward when you have a lot of

6:26

people thinking that way across a

6:28

lot of different problems and areas of the business . Right

6:30

, it can't just be kind of the one person coming in

6:32

with the savior , you

6:34

know , complex or whatever and trying

6:36

to fix everything that's broken . All of us have

6:39

to be curious and creative at the same time , so

6:41

I think that's where the mindset is crucial

6:43

.

6:44

I really want to dig into the mindset piece more

6:46

, Julie , because , as someone who

6:48

spent many years in

6:51

corporate America , one

6:53

of the things I've noticed is that I call it the not

6:55

my circus , not my monkey's attitude

6:57

. It's like . It's a survival mechanism

7:00

, right Of like . Oh my god

7:02

, I just need to do my job . Let me

7:04

not get involved in like

7:06

. There's no shortage of challenges

7:09

or problems inside of companies

7:11

, and

7:14

that's also massive opportunity

7:16

for the right

7:18

kind of person , and

7:20

you have to have this mindset that you're talking

7:23

about . Of like . It's not just finding problems

7:25

, but also thinking about how

7:28

you can create opportunities . I

7:30

would also add create value

7:32

, right , Because not every problem that's out there is worthy

7:34

of being solved , and so

7:37

the question really is how do you

7:39

, is that from your standpoint

7:41

? Is there a blueprint or steps

7:44

that one might think about

7:46

to identify those

7:48

challenges and turn them into

7:50

opportunities ? Even just thinking about your

7:52

own experience , Somebody who's

7:55

early in their career might be like oh , that's great , how

7:57

do I do that ? What

8:00

kind of practical steps can someone take ?

8:03

Yeah , I often think these things start

8:05

very small , right . Like if

8:07

you see an opportunity on your

8:09

team where something's broken and you can

8:11

bring maybe a new piece of technology

8:13

to your team , that's going to say we're going to work

8:15

harder I mean , we're going to be smarter on this issue

8:17

, not harder , because look at this piece of technology

8:20

that I found that's fantastic , it's going

8:22

to solve our problem . And then I think , once

8:24

you do a few of those right , you gain trust

8:27

you yourself , especially as women

8:29

, right . Like I think we have

8:31

to build our courage right , and

8:33

I love kind of one of my mottoes is like courage

8:36

begets courage , right . So I think you

8:38

probably coach women this way too . Like you

8:40

got to take that little step and put yourself out there

8:42

and oh , ok , I didn't die , nobody

8:44

fired me , ok , nobody died

8:47

, nobody died , nobody died , nobody died

8:49

.

8:49

I am not doing surgery on anybody

8:51

Now you , it's like it's yeah .

8:53

I love that . That was one of my favorite moments

8:55

in my corporate career was we were like on a

8:57

conference call like 6 PM on a Friday night

8:59

and everyone was frustrated . We couldn't figure it

9:01

out . And somebody it was like this woman from Boston

9:03

and she was like you know what ? Everybody go

9:06

home get a drink . Nobody's on

9:08

the table bleeding out . We can figure this out . On Monday

9:10

I was like levity

9:13

always get , I love that it just it puts it

9:15

in perspective really quickly . But I think it's

9:17

that notion of kind of building your own confidence

9:19

and courage , right , and again

9:22

knowing that , like the higher ups don't have it all figured

9:24

out . So your original ideas are

9:26

good , right . And then I think it's also

9:29

testing out if you're in the right environment

9:31

where that's going to be embraced

9:33

or rewarded right Because

9:36

. I think I say this from experience

9:38

. If you are in a situation where

9:40

you're trying to be creative , curious

9:42

, bring ideas to the table and nobody's

9:44

having it like you're

9:46

going to burn yourself back so fast . Fall back , Fall

9:49

back right , I know

9:51

, and you kind of have to , like , in

9:53

a corporate environment you're going to hit some natural

9:55

resistance just because of how

9:57

big you know it's a big organization , right , a

9:59

lot of big shift to turn . So you

10:02

kind of have to take the long game approach . I think , if

10:04

you're an entrepreneur in a lot of respects but

10:06

you know the difference , right , you know the difference . If

10:08

you're in a place where your ideas are absolutely

10:11

unwelcome , or

10:13

if you're OK , did a good job on

10:15

this , let's give it the next thing . And

10:18

I think , if you're driven like this , if you're

10:20

an entrepreneur at heart , like if you can't turn

10:22

off that curiosity and you're in a place like that

10:25

, go see Tiffany and find

10:27

your next role , because

10:30

it's maddening , right , You're

10:32

going to drive yourself nuts . And

10:34

then , conversely , if you find yourself in a place

10:36

where that is embraced , wow

10:39

, like you are just energized

10:41

and excited and building

10:44

those muscles and seeing what's

10:46

possible , right . So I think those

10:48

are . That's really kind of the

10:50

blueprint I would think about right , the small to

10:52

the next , to the big , to the big , and then the ultimate

10:54

is like entrepreneurship , right , I

10:56

love that .

10:57

Yeah , julie , I am curious when you

10:59

talk about context where

11:02

it hasn't been welcome or it hasn't

11:04

been encouraged to be curious and work

11:06

in this way . What are some indicators

11:09

that the place or

11:11

the space does not have

11:13

the capacity for that type of mindset , and

11:16

can you share a time where you saw this

11:18

show up in your career and what you did about

11:20

it ?

11:21

Yeah , I mean , I think for

11:23

me I have joke , but it was true

11:25

, like for me , kind of the aha moment

11:27

was like I started to get in trouble and

11:30

I mean , obviously I'm a rule follower

11:32

, I hate breaking rules , but I

11:34

think if you're a creative sort of like

11:37

person with ingenuity inside a big

11:39

organization and if you're younger in your

11:41

career right , and you have ideas sometimes

11:43

, that's welcome . But if you're in a place that it's

11:45

not welcome , you're gonna get your hands slapped and that does

11:47

not feel good . No , and

11:50

so I sort of joke . I was like I realized

11:52

it was time for me to go when I started getting

11:54

in trouble , because I wasn't doing

11:56

anything wrong , but I just

11:58

had too many ideas for the

12:00

spot I was in , and so I

12:02

think that that's probably a

12:04

good indication For me

12:06

. I experienced some of this when

12:09

I was in banking in the

12:11

mid 2000s , right , and that

12:13

was a time where the

12:15

financial crisis was hitting the economy , was

12:17

taking like fear was the

12:19

only emotion that we had inside

12:21

of a bank at that time , right , and so I

12:24

think we all are gonna be inside

12:26

companies where our industry hits

12:28

certain road bumps , et cetera , and

12:30

fear is just like from the top down , fear

12:32

is just gonna be everywhere , and so that

12:35

is usually a time when creativity

12:38

, curiosity , is just you can't speak

12:40

up , right , you just kind of have to put your head down into your work

12:42

. So I think for me , I

12:45

in that situation realized I needed

12:47

to like just put my head down and do my work

12:50

, you know , but big picture as kind of that

12:52

, that time sort of started to lift and

12:54

things were getting better and I was thinking about my next

12:56

move , like I think I realized

12:59

, okay , I need to be in a place , whether

13:01

it's inside a corporation or somewhere else

13:03

, where I can be , have

13:05

more freedom to move

13:07

and to execute on these ideas .

13:10

I wonder also , julie , you gave the example

13:12

of being in banking highly regulated

13:14

industry If you're working in pharmaceuticals

13:16

again highly regulated and so

13:18

I also wonder if the tolerance

13:21

and then if you're at a legacy brand

13:23

, if you're a ? Tiffany and I both worked for a company

13:25

that was almost 200 years old and

13:28

had a long , long history , a very

13:30

, very specific way of doing business

13:32

as a Lean Six Sigma company . So

13:34

everything's very standardized , very regimented

13:36

, and understanding the environment

13:39

that you're in and knowing

13:42

that some environments don't like

13:44

that's , let's say , creativity . And

13:47

, by the way , we should probably talk a little bit about what do

13:49

we mean when we say creativity ? Because sometimes

13:51

we think about it as being artistic , but that's not . I mean , creativity

13:53

is actually very broadly defined

13:55

. But I wonder and I've certainly

13:57

seen this in my own career of really understanding

14:00

your environment and figuring

14:02

out where the boundaries are . And you're right , and

14:05

I love you use the word , like when I started to get in

14:07

trouble . And

14:09

I wonder for those listening who

14:11

are newer in their career , earlier in

14:14

their career , it's like there are avenues

14:16

, but you've got to understand

14:19

the culture that you're in

14:21

and I certainly know from experience

14:23

that oftentimes there's that like you

14:25

need to earn your stripes before you can run

14:28

off and create other ideas . I

14:31

will just say what I've seen with like especially

14:33

, you know , our Gen Z team members

14:36

. They're like I don't want to wait my turn , man

14:38

, let me go . You don't let me do my thing , I'm

14:40

going to go someplace else . That's legit

14:43

. That's legit Absolutely . And

14:46

you know , I wonder if we just spend a minute talking about

14:48

just like . There are avenues

14:51

, but you've got to understand the

14:53

environment and the culture in which you're operating

14:55

and then you can decide . You know what this , this place

14:57

, isn't for me . I'm going to go on to the next thing

14:59

, but I just wonder if you , if you know , if you have

15:01

a perspective on that

15:04

.

15:04

I love that you said that , because it's so important

15:06

, so important , and

15:09

it actually reminds me of when I was

15:11

graduating from college . There was this organization

15:13

in North Carolina , a nonprofit , and

15:15

I was just obsessed with the mission . I really wanted to

15:17

go work for them . I think I interviewed with them

15:19

for three different roles . None of that . I didn't

15:21

get any of them , and I remember sitting across

15:24

from a VP when I was , you know

15:26

, 21 , 22 years old , and she was like

15:28

I love your passion , go get some skills

15:30

and come back .

15:31

And I was like this job will help me get the

15:33

skills right now . We'll give me skills Hello

15:36

.

15:37

Yes , I know , I know it's

15:39

funny . It's funny now .

15:40

It's not funny , then I know right , it

15:43

hurts , then it hurt back , then you can laugh now though

15:45

.

15:45

Right , that's great . And

15:47

it immediately informed my

15:49

my career path

15:52

, right , I was like , okay , I'm going to go get

15:54

a job . I mean , I'm in Charlotte , north Carolina , there's

15:56

Wacovia , there's Bank of America , let

15:58

me go , let me go get a job there . And

16:00

it's not easy to get a job there , but that's what I started pursuing

16:02

. I did get in there and kind of started

16:04

my career there . Portia , I think what you said is absolutely

16:07

correct , like that is a phenomenal

16:09

place to cut your teeth , to get experience

16:11

, to understand the unspoken

16:14

dynamics of an organization , how

16:16

to build relationships , how to have an executive

16:18

presence right , I think all of

16:20

those things are going to be so important later on

16:22

. And you can't hone those skills by yourself

16:24

, right , you've got to be inside an organization . And

16:27

I think you , in those days , you

16:29

have to have humility , right

16:32

, you have to have the humility to say , like I'm

16:34

just a kid , I'm just learning this business , right , but

16:36

if you can put yourself in situations where you have

16:38

to learn quickly , build those relationships

16:41

, right , you're going to get so many reps on those skills

16:43

.

16:44

Yeah .

16:44

Yeah , that you know I always said , like

16:46

by the time I turn 30 , I want to have amassed all these different

16:48

skills that I can like okay , apply it anywhere . I

16:51

don't know where I'm going , but I'm just going to have this sort of repertoire

16:53

of skills . I also went to law

16:55

school in my twenties at night , so it

16:57

allowed me to sort of just have this like tool

17:00

chest of things I could go use , and

17:02

I knew that it would . It would equip me for

17:04

whatever I was going to do next and wherever that passion

17:06

led me , I was finally going to have the skills

17:08

to bring to it .

17:11

You know , Julie , when I , when I think about

17:13

what you're saying , about capturing

17:15

the skills , building your kind of word chest

17:18

capabilities , let's call it that .

17:20

That's what I'm saying .

17:25

This idea of reading the tea leaves and making sure that your ideas

17:27

and your passion , you're harnessing it towards something that

17:29

is contributing value . I think , Portia , you said that

17:31

earlier . That's always true

17:33

and no matter what

17:36

stage of your career you're in , it's like

17:38

I can have a really good idea or I

17:40

could see a quick solve to something , but is this

17:42

quick solve sustainable ? Does this quick

17:44

solve help us drive more revenue

17:46

? Does this quick solve

17:49

mean we need to move some people around

17:51

on this team because they're not going to make it

17:53

once we implement this

17:55

new way ? You know like those

17:57

are the hard question . It's

17:59

like the what are the new problems that come about

18:01

because we're solving this one ? And

18:04

I think , generationally . There's

18:06

all this conversation about you

18:08

know who's the smartest , who's the hardest working

18:11

, and all this business . But

18:13

the question is the same , regardless of

18:15

your life stage or what part of the

18:17

business that you're in , and

18:19

so I think about . You

18:21

captured all these skills , you

18:23

leverage them inside of a big

18:25

box organization , couple

18:27

other organizations that were a little smaller

18:30

, and then you flipped out into entrepreneurship

18:32

. How has that work just

18:34

been helpful for you now that you're

18:36

in this space ?

18:37

Yeah , great question . Well , like

18:40

I said , I came to that word entrepreneur

18:42

kind of late in my career and once I

18:44

found it and grabbed hold to it , the step

18:47

to entrepreneurship was not that much

18:49

farther right , because I kind of was

18:51

able to like , frame

18:53

and categorize everything I had been doing

18:55

in a way that said oh , like I

18:57

have the skill set , I am ready for this

18:59

step . I don't think I mean . I know

19:02

, tiffany , you and I know plenty of successful

19:04

entrepreneurs in their twenties . We

19:06

taught and mentored many of them . But like that

19:08

wasn't me I know that wasn't me because I needed

19:10

to go get skills , learn

19:12

some things , develop that business acumen

19:15

right , like all

19:17

of those things right .

19:19

Like my praise hands .

19:20

Yes , I

19:22

mean every , every

19:25

criticism that somebody made of a leader

19:27

during COVID . I said , nope , you

19:29

don't get to criticize them because this is freaking

19:32

hard . You know , there are so many

19:34

competing priorities Like it

19:36

is just hard to be . I was a leader

19:38

at the time , took a new leader at the time portion Like

19:41

you remember those like dark , lonely

19:43

days of like what am I going to do ? You know

19:45

?

19:45

we are . We were just out there trying to survive

19:47

. We were literally , we were literally trying

19:50

to survive .

19:51

Yes .

19:53

Yes .

19:53

Yes , it was so surreal and

19:55

it's like talk about we can look back and start to laugh now . But but

19:58

now I mean , but then it was just it was scary

20:00

. So I think experience gives

20:03

you that acumen , gives you that appreciation

20:05

for the complexity of things , but

20:07

also , I think , just

20:09

reminds you that you have to be able

20:11

to step up and make decisions right , like you're

20:13

not going to have perfect information , you're

20:16

going to do your best to care for your team , but it's like

20:18

they're going to get

20:20

support from other places too . Right , and

20:23

so I think you just gain a respect for

20:25

sort of the things

20:27

are not as easy as they might seem . You

20:29

know it's easy to criticize when you're maybe

20:32

earlier in your career . It's much harder to lead

20:34

.

20:34

You know 100% , and

20:36

it's not easy to create products

20:38

, but it's easier to create a product

20:40

than it is to build the infrastructure for

20:43

scale yes , With all the people

20:45

that need to mobilize this organization

20:47

, whereas you step into a company that 200

20:49

years old , it's well oiled , so

20:52

they're challenged in there , but you're not creating that culture

20:54

. So , yeah , it's a different set of skills

20:56

. That's good .

20:58

Yeah , julie , I want to pull on this thread of just the transition

21:00

from entrepreneurship to

21:02

entrepreneur , because I don't

21:04

know that it's super intuitive per

21:07

se . Was there an

21:09

inflection point for

21:11

you where you felt like , okay

21:14

, I've done all I can do within the confines

21:17

of a nine to five corporate

21:20

structure and now it's time for me to

21:22

now go and do my own thing

21:24

? I like to joke that social

21:26

media , twitter , llc

21:28

, twitter will have everyone think they can build a billion

21:31

dollar business like unicorn startup

21:34

.

21:34

Right and the reality , you know like but

21:36

we should all be building startups .

21:38

if you just follow like seven or eight people on

21:40

X , I'm sorry , x and

21:42

you know , but the reality is and

21:45

talk , and talk , oh my . God

21:47

I forgot about . I forgot about LLC

21:49

. Ted talk , you know , the reality is

21:52

the entrepreneur . Streets are

21:54

not for everybody . Some people need

21:56

to stay on the sidewalks , and that's totally okay

21:58

, and so it just was

22:01

there a ? Was there a moment or

22:04

an event , or was it just

22:06

a natural progression , Like what flipped

22:08

the switch in your head , to say , okay

22:11

, I'm just going to go for it ?

22:13

I love that question and I think it's an inflection

22:16

point , or maybe several , that we all have to

22:18

kind of like grapple with . I

22:20

think for me . You know I was , I was working at Davidson

22:22

College and I actually helped build out

22:24

our Center for Innovation and Entrepreneurship . Tiffany

22:27

got to see part of that .

22:28

It's an amazing place , by the way , it's

22:31

amazing place . Thank you , yeah .

22:34

I think it's as an alumni and as

22:36

as someone who helped create it , you know . So

22:38

I think I think just swimming in those waters

22:41

right starts to give you the bug a

22:43

little bit . Also , when I left corporate

22:45

America , I went to work for Davidson College

22:47

. I had four roles in six

22:50

years , which meant I wasn't getting

22:52

fired , but I was always doing the next

22:54

thing that the college needed done

22:56

right . I sort of built a little

22:58

reputation for myself , which was , I don't know , good

23:00

or bad , but I think when I left

23:03

corporate America I went to work for Davidson

23:05

, I was going to lead a specific project

23:07

. We had a $2 million grant . We

23:09

had an idea to build an education technology project

23:12

, and so what that did for me was like

23:14

there's an idea , there's

23:16

capital in the bank , now I just get to

23:18

go build it right , that's that's like

23:20

a startup .

23:21

That's a dream .

23:22

But I'm not doing it with with all the risks . So I

23:24

feel like my career journey

23:26

has been like I'm slowly taking off all the training wheels

23:28

, you know . So

23:30

by the time we we built Munch the Hub

23:32

. I think that experience showed

23:35

me I'm a builder , I'm not an operator

23:37

. Right , that really

23:39

became clear for me that I have to be building

23:41

and creating Tiffany . This will probably

23:44

not surprise you , but when I was at Davidson I did

23:46

my Clifton Strengths Finder , which

23:48

you are a huge proponent , yes

23:50

, and my number one is achiever

23:52

.

23:53

So relatable relatable

23:56

, yes , I'm sure we all have

23:58

that . Yeah , it's like get it done

24:00

. Get it done by any means necessary

24:02

, and then onto the next

24:05

, and then onto the next new thing . Onto

24:07

the next new thing . Now we , you know we need someone else

24:09

to optimize . So you know , you build and

24:11

then you onto the next new thing . Let somebody else optimize

24:13

. Yeah , yes .

24:15

But I think that was the thing . And then

24:17

I had someone else say to me kind of along that way , they're like

24:19

you know , I just turned 40

24:21

this year and someone

24:23

said , like you know , 35 to 45

24:25

are like some of your best working years , right

24:28

, you've got experience , you

24:30

still got energy , and like you want

24:32

to build something . And I was like , well , I'm halfway

24:34

through that , what am I going to do , you know ? So

24:37

I think that sort of gave me the permission

24:39

to say , if not now , when , right

24:42

. And I think it came from a place

24:44

of like I'm going to do it , afraid

24:46

, but I'm not going to

24:48

live with regret because I tried it . I

24:50

love that . Yes , all of

24:52

us could go get a job , right , like

24:54

, if needed , I could go get a job . But

24:57

if not now , when ? And

24:59

if I want to look back on this part

25:01

of my life and say , you know , I took

25:03

the risks , you know , in a smart

25:05

way , but I took the risks and I'm

25:07

not looking back with regret . I

25:09

think when you grow up in the corporate environment , you

25:12

have a lot of friends who are still there

25:14

. No , you know , it's not

25:16

a bad place for everyone , but I think there are a lot of people

25:18

that are there as they don't know where else to go . They

25:21

don't know how else to like , parlay their skills or

25:23

what else is out there . And these are , you

25:25

know , at HireBrain , we talk about , like , your work

25:27

is how you spend your day . Right

25:30

, these are , this is your endeavor , these

25:32

are the best you know , months , years

25:35

of your life like . Let's

25:38

be thoughtful about it . You know , and

25:40

that's why we're passionate about hiring managers , because

25:42

they play a huge role in that equation and

25:44

don't always have the preparation

25:46

to make good calls .

25:48

I'm still thinking about whoever told you

25:50

that you have the most energy

25:52

35 to 45

25:54

, I want to know where they got the energy from , because

25:57

I'm very tired .

25:58

Well , and I'm saying and I'm over 45

26:01

and I have a ton of energy , of

26:03

course , I have . I have a ton of

26:05

energy as maybe the only over 45

26:07

on this here pod . So

26:10

it does you know . But it's probably directly proportionate

26:13

to how old your kids are or whether you have kids

26:15

I hope it's not true . If you have

26:17

kids , you are tired all the damn time

26:19

. Let's just put it out there , that's

26:22

right 100% .

26:24

Well , it was . It was enough to like kind

26:26

of get in my crawl and make me think

26:28

about it differently . So , yeah

26:30

, I think I think that was it , and I think I'll

26:33

also say the other inflection point right , there's

26:35

. There's the moment and I don't know if you all have experienced

26:37

this , but there's the moment that we leave , right when

26:39

we're like , well , I don't know what's on the other side of this

26:41

, but we're leaving .

26:42

And then there's the moment that you like settle in , right

26:45

, yeah .

26:46

And I think the settling in moment , honestly

26:49

if I'm honest , it was more recent

26:51

right when I'm like , okay , we've hit snags

26:54

, we've had successes , we've had failures , but

26:56

we're still around , we're still kicking , we're still

26:58

winning . Business Like this is not

27:00

perfect yet , but we're going to keep going . And

27:03

you start to like feel that like

27:05

we're settling in , we're doing the thing , as

27:07

opposed to living on the roller coaster . Right

27:09

Like , as an entrepreneur , you

27:12

tie your identity , your financial

27:14

security right To just like the

27:17

day to day of a business , and that is unsustainable

27:19

. So the settling in , the

27:22

having kind of the like confidence

27:24

to say like , even if it doesn't work out , I'll still

27:26

be okay , that's a different

27:28

inflection point and that's when

27:30

I felt like I became a true entrepreneur . If that

27:33

makes sense .

27:34

Yeah , it makes a ton of sense .

27:35

If there was one lesson , Julie , that you could

27:38

give someone who's thinking about

27:40

taking that leap , like having their leap moment

27:42

, what would it be ?

27:44

You're never going to have all the answers

27:47

that you want to have , like Portia , to your

27:49

point , like , you're never going to be able to de-risk

27:51

the whole equation . Right , it

27:53

is a risk and so

27:55

you're going to have to do it afraid

27:58

, but it's also helpful to think

28:00

about the worst that could happen . Right , I

28:03

don't recommend anybody like you know , mortgage

28:05

or help , like , do things as thoughtfully

28:07

and as responsibly as you can , but there's still risk

28:10

involved and even if it doesn't

28:12

work out , you will still be okay

28:14

. Right , I work with

28:17

a lot of our customers at HireBrain

28:19

, our enterprise companies , large , large companies

28:21

, and we're working in the talent space , the talent

28:23

acquisition space . So I'm also starting to

28:25

hear all these stories about entrepreneurs

28:28

who have gotten hired into corporations that used to be a faux

28:30

pas . Right , like , you started

28:32

a business . It failed , you

28:34

know , we're just going to like , set you out to pasture

28:36

for the rest of your life , and now

28:38

I'm meeting people that are like running engineering divisions

28:40

and like had a startup five years ago . Right , so

28:43

, like , I think the experience

28:45

is starting to be more like normalized

28:48

into our culture and into our workplaces and

28:50

so you're not risking everything

28:52

. If you take the leap right . There is a path to

28:55

go , I think , in and out of corporate

28:57

America , your whole career , if you need to . Right , and

28:59

that's becoming , I think , a career journey that's

29:02

more common and people don't mind

29:04

right , and as long as you keep those connections

29:06

, and working as a startup with

29:08

an enterprise is not that much different than working at a . I mean

29:10

there are differences , but same

29:12

skills , right , I'm still bringing the same skills to

29:15

a startup , a vendor that's serving a global

29:17

enterprise , as I would a leader in the enterprise , right ?

29:21

I will say , julie , though it's you know , having

29:23

just I was just recently in tech

29:26

and prior to that , industrial manufacturing

29:28

, and we would often acquire

29:30

companies that were run by founders , and

29:32

one of the I thought the interesting observation

29:35

that I found was that those

29:37

found like it was great

29:39

for the company , the acquiring

29:42

company , but the founders invariably

29:44

felt a little stifled by going

29:47

, you know , especially if they had been in corporate environments

29:49

before or had never experienced

29:51

it and felt like , oh my God , like there's so

29:53

many rules here and everything moves

29:56

so slow and why

29:58

?

29:58

you know why do .

29:59

I have to go through , like you know , three

30:01

months of procurement to get a , you know

30:03

, a pack of pencils and some post-its

30:05

, and so I love what . I love

30:08

what you say about , because I think it's absolutely

30:10

true . Right , You're seeing

30:12

more permeability between

30:14

the sort of the walls of entrepreneurship

30:17

, corporate and

30:20

that culture . Fit

30:22

sometimes works , sometimes

30:25

doesn't , for the entrepreneur

30:27

especially . And I'm curious

30:30

if you've observed

30:32

entrepreneurs feeling like

30:34

you know what . This was great , I

30:36

got a regular paycheck for a while , but

30:38

let me go ahead and figure out how to get back outside

30:40

into , you know , because I suspect

30:43

, like the entrepreneurs that I know , once they've been

30:45

on their own , they have very little

30:47

desire to go and work

30:49

. It's maybe it's the concept of working for somebody

30:51

else and like putting in hard work

30:53

for somebody else versus for themselves . I

30:55

just want to give a perspective on that .

30:58

Yeah , well , I think , I think in some ways

31:00

, you know , our society has sort of glamorized

31:03

entrepreneurship or startups or like

31:05

you know the hockey stick growth , and the reality

31:07

is like it's not for everybody , and

31:09

so I . I think it's remarkable

31:11

when people try it and say this isn't for me , I'm

31:13

going to go back and bring my skill set to

31:16

it . You know , like that's . That's a totally fine

31:18

thing . Yeah , let's normalize

31:20

that . Yes , yes , and

31:23

these companies are getting remarkable

31:26

talent as a result , right ? If

31:28

you run your own business and keep payroll

31:30

going and keep keep the business capitalized

31:33

and sell things like you are

31:35

a better employee , whatever team

31:37

you're running , when you go back to a corporation

31:40

, right ? So , normalize it all day

31:42

long , hire those people all day long

31:44

, yeah . But I think , portia

31:46

, to your point , the people that truly have the bug , right

31:48

, it's just like they're , they

31:51

can never go back , right ? Yeah

31:53

, I just think those , those people will . They're going

31:55

to , they're going to be the people that start two , three companies in their

31:57

career right , and so I think that that's

31:59

going to be . That's just going to be how they have

32:01

to live their life . I think what I appreciate

32:04

about our like my founder

32:06

and I both spent , like my founder spent time at Oracle

32:08

, cisco , so he , he has lived that life

32:10

, he has run global teams , so it makes

32:13

us so much better when we're sitting in front of

32:15

you know enterprise executives , we know

32:17

their struggles right , or at least we can relate

32:19

right . We know what kind of

32:21

what they're up against , we can speak that language and then

32:23

I love that we get to work

32:25

with the entrepreneurs at those

32:27

companies , right , yeah . As a startup we're

32:30

bringing the solutions that

32:32

speak to the things they're trying to solve

32:35

and they get jazzed . We get jazzed

32:37

right , we get to work together . So I

32:39

think , like being an entrepreneur

32:41

who's been in that seat makes you far

32:44

more prepared , I think , to bring

32:46

good solutions , to speak that language and

32:48

to really resonate with their struggles

32:50

.

32:51

So , julie , this is we get to like our

32:53

most favorite . This is the most

32:55

popular part of the pod , or

32:58

is the lightning round , and

33:00

are you ready ?

33:01

I'm ready .

33:04

And so this is a . This is a lot , tends

33:06

to be a lot of fun for our listeners

33:09

and so question . So we talked about mindset

33:11

the outset of this conversation

33:13

. Is there a favorite

33:15

motto or phrase

33:18

that you have that defines

33:20

your mindset ?

33:22

Yes , it was the motto

33:25

that I shared earlier about courage begets

33:27

courage .

33:28

Yeah , I love that .

33:29

I love that . That's been true , true

33:32

for me . And like we don't get to big

33:34

things overnight , like we've got to learn

33:36

to trust ourselves , and I think , as

33:39

women , we think courage

33:41

is , you know , big , massive

33:43

, grand things , and I think courage actually

33:46

happens in the smaller moments , you know

33:48

.

33:49

So important , so important . It's a good reminder

33:51

. We feel like we need to make quantum , but

33:53

sometimes it's the incremental that

33:56

is equally powerful . I love that Totally

33:58

.

33:59

Okay , next question You're

34:01

accepting a huge award . What is your

34:03

walk on song ? I love this song

34:05

.

34:06

I'm a huge music fan , but

34:08

mine would be the beginning of Nine

34:11

to Five by Dolly Parton , or it's like you know , and

34:14

I don't know if you know all this

34:16

, but the percussion that she

34:19

does in that song are her fingernails on the keyboard

34:21

. No , I had no idea

34:23

. Yes , that's how . I I didn't know that she

34:26

came up with that , because if you listen

34:28

to the song , it sounds like someone , just kind of like

34:30

.

34:31

I learned something new .

34:32

Oh , my God .

34:32

I just thought that was like a ball and movement .

34:34

I gotta go back and listen to this now . This is

34:36

gonna be great . This is gonna be great for , by the way we're putting , we're

34:38

gonna have a Spotify playlist of all these songs

34:40

, so I'm just super excited about this . This is why

34:43

.

34:43

I had no idea .

34:44

And .

34:44

I have a coffee mug that's called

34:47

Cup of Ambition . So Dolly really gets me energized

34:49

. I , you know we loved her . I

34:52

have to say we love Dolly Parton .

34:53

We love us some Dolly Parton . She is like

34:56

a phenomenal person . I don't know if

34:58

you saw her recently she did like a guest

35:00

thing with the Dallas Cowboy

35:02

cheerleaders and she had like a whole little

35:05

Dallas Cowboy cheerleader . We

35:07

will have to link to that in the show notes , because she

35:10

had on the full outfit it was . It

35:12

was pretty amazing , I love me

35:15

some Dolly , I love her .

35:16

She was doing the thing she was doing , it

35:18

she continues to .

35:19

I think she's like 77 years old , so she's a goddess

35:21

and I learned something new about her , which is even a double

35:23

bonus , okay , julie . So here's the next question

35:25

what book do

35:27

you find yourself gifting or

35:30

recommending repeatedly ? We are big

35:32

readers , the squad reads a lot , and so I'm super

35:34

curious about this what do you read , what ? What

35:36

do you ? I came prepared with props . Yes

35:39

, I love that .

35:40

Oh , my God , I love this book , but I haven't .

35:42

I haven't read it yet . Somebody recommended it

35:44

to me , so I just bought it . I love that and I

35:46

haven't read it . Okay , I'm going to read it over the break .

35:48

Scouts honor , scouts honor . Okay

35:50

, I'm totally doing it . So

35:53

, for those who are listening , so

35:55

for those who are listening , this is called . It's

35:58

called designing your life . It's

36:00

a few years old , so it's been around for a while and

36:02

it was written by the two professors at Stanford

36:05

that really took kind of the the Stanford

36:07

D school design thinking and kind of really brought

36:09

that to their . Oh , there you go

36:11

.

36:12

Tiffany you've got . Oh , I wish I could get up and

36:14

go and grab my copy so we could all hold

36:16

up our copies together .

36:18

I love that we all own this book . That must be a lot of reasons

36:20

I love it .

36:21

Oh , but only two . But only two of us not me have

36:23

actually read the book . So you

36:25

know , I'm going to go read it , though I promise , tiffany and

36:27

Julie , I promise . Sorry about that .

36:29

So thinking about this idea of mindset , like these

36:31

Stanford professors were applying design thinking

36:33

to all of these business problems and social problems

36:36

, right , and then they actually created a course at

36:38

Stanford called I think it's designing your

36:40

first year or something . So it's like helping

36:42

use design thinking for Stanford students to

36:44

chart their learning for the four

36:46

years that they're there . And then they took it to the next step

36:48

, which is like using design thinking to

36:50

think about your life plan , and so I

36:53

love how this sort of breaks down

36:55

thinking about your future , your next step

36:57

, into kind of that

37:00

design thinking , experimentation

37:02

mindset . So it's very actionable

37:04

. Every chapter you read you

37:06

then can do homework like a journaling exercise

37:08

or something . And I think when we

37:10

pick up career books or like inspirational

37:12

books , sometimes it's just sort of you're supposed to

37:14

glean the wisdom from somebody's

37:17

story , right , which isn't a bad thing . But this

37:19

is so actionable that , like when people , especially

37:21

my female friends , when they're stuck in

37:23

a career situation , I give them this book

37:25

because it's so actionable for

37:28

you , you will be unstuck by the time you finish

37:30

this book .

37:30

That is an endorsement .

37:32

What an endorsement I know they're

37:34

not paying me , I just . I've given this

37:36

book away a lot of times .

37:38

Well , they should , they should , Julie .

37:41

Yeah , just send me more so I can give them away

37:43

. But I think it's also something you could do every

37:45

couple of years , right Cause our lives are not static

37:47

, so it just I

37:50

feel like it's and it's talking about

37:52

how to build a life , not a career . I

37:54

think , especially as women , we sort of get

37:56

honed in on the career and then everything else kind of has

37:58

to fit around it . At least , I think that's

38:00

how we sort of begin our careers and then life

38:03

happens . But I think this is helping you sort of

38:05

proactively think about , like all elements of your

38:07

life and kind of where you want to be , and

38:09

so I highly recommend it . Excellent

38:11

recommendation .

38:12

All right , Julie . What is the best

38:14

purchase under 150

38:17

bucks you've ever made ?

38:19

Ever ? This is a hard question , recent

38:22

. I'll answer it recently not

38:24

to feel like stereotypical

38:26

, but my Stanley has been amazing . I

38:28

drink so much water .

38:30

Mine's not on my desk , but I also have one

38:33

.

38:34

I resisted the trend for a

38:36

long time and then when the North Carolina summer

38:38

hit where you're like I can have cold water all the

38:40

time I gotta get one .

38:41

Oh my God , it keeps your

38:43

water cold for like days . It's

38:46

unreal . Tiffany told me

38:48

about this Stanley cup and

38:50

she was like , yeah , it's like this cup that influencers

38:53

are talking about . And I was like that sounds totally stupid

38:55

. And then

38:57

I was like I was totally being derisive

38:59

. I was totally derisive

39:01

and judgmental and then

39:03

and Tiffany would be like that Tiffany was like

39:05

that's par for the course for Porsche . And

39:07

then I was getting some stuff . I

39:10

was at Academy Sports and there was like a wall

39:13

of Stanley cups . I was getting stuff

39:15

from my son and I was like , huh , well

39:17

, maybe God , it's like 40 bucks . It seems kind of expensive

39:19

, but all right , I'll get one . Oh my God , I

39:22

am totally sold . Tiffany , I apologize to you

39:24

in front of our squad in front of our

39:27

squad audience , that I was wrong and you

39:29

were right , Julie . Thank you , thank

39:31

you . That's okay , I owe the same

39:33

apology . Yeah , hook

39:35

us up , stanley . Hook us up . We love your

39:37

cups . Hook us up .

39:39

Yeah

39:42

, Okay . What is a secret

39:44

? Unpopular opinion that you hold .

39:46

Okay , I cannot wait for you to answer this

39:48

.

39:49

I actually had a hard time with this question .

39:51

No , this is like the most fun question

39:53

. This is a safe space , julie

39:55

? Tell us , tell us , I know .

39:59

I think watching movies are a waste of time . What'd

40:01

you say ? I think

40:03

watching movies are a waste of time Like

40:06

I just can't . I can't sit down , I know , oh

40:08

, I can't .

40:10

Any kind . What about inside out ? What about inside

40:13

out ?

40:13

It's very emotional , Tiffany

40:15

, you can't just like start throwing out random movies Like , well , what about

40:17

this movie ? That is not the point of this

40:19

. Tiffany is going to go . She's

40:22

got a long list of movies that she wants you to

40:24

like . Confirm or disconfirm

40:26

that they're going to be on .

40:27

Confirm that they're a waste of time , the

40:29

reason I'm a podcast audible fiend

40:31

, because I can like do other things while I'm listening

40:33

, and that's probably more of a sickness Fair Than

40:36

you know an attribute , but it is

40:38

what it is . I am who I am .

40:40

I love it and I love how you're

40:42

resilient about that . You're like that's who . That's

40:44

just who I am , that's

40:46

just who I am .

40:47

You can speed up audibles and pod to more

40:49

efficiently get through them too . You can't really do that

40:51

with a movie .

40:53

Just diversion . I don't understand

40:55

Cause Tiffany mentioned this , julie , that

40:57

she will speak . You're like not the only person

40:59

, tiffany , that will speed

41:01

up a audio book so

41:04

that they can listen to it faster , and I don't

41:06

understand the logic of that at

41:08

all . You don't have to explain it , I'm just saying

41:10

I'm just putting it out there , not a lot , just like 1.2

41:13

. Why ? Why ? I

41:15

don't understand that , though . Like what is the logic

41:18

To listen faster it

41:20

?

41:21

makes it shorter more . I just need

41:23

to be multitasking , so if I'm walking

41:25

the dog and listening to a podcast , I feel

41:27

like I've got the double time going .

41:29

You've got , so it's like a it's like your productivity

41:31

hack . I will just tell you , julie , like

41:33

I watch a lot of movies and

41:35

I find myself watching the same movie

41:37

over like several times , because

41:40

I am multitasking and not paying

41:42

attention to it , and my husband will be like

41:44

haven't you watched this movie Like three times . I'm like , yeah

41:46

, but I was doing like seven things and so , yeah

41:49

, there's something to that , yeah , okay

41:51

, so I love that is an amazing . I love that

41:53

one . I'm going

41:56

to really be curious about what the squad says

41:58

says about this unpopular opinion

42:00

, but I love it .

42:02

Okay , so you don't have to apologize .

42:03

Own fully own your belief that watching movies is a waste

42:06

of time .

42:07

Own it , embrace it , embrace it , embrace it

42:10

.

42:11

Okay , so last question for you is what

42:14

is a hobby that you

42:17

have that would surprise people who know

42:19

you .

42:20

This is also a little bit of a hard one , but I'm going to share

42:22

the one that came to mind . So every

42:25

summer , I host a series

42:27

of backyard garden dinners at my house

42:29

and hook

42:31

us up next summer , come

42:34

on , come on . But I

42:36

also feel like just to kind of put a

42:38

bow on our whole conversation . Like I started

42:40

it in 2015 because I needed

42:42

, like , a creative outlet , I invited 10

42:44

people over , I cooked a meal with local

42:46

produce and I was like maybe I'll do this again , maybe

42:49

I won't . Everybody loved it and they wanted

42:52

me to do it again and it turned into a summer

42:54

series . So I was doing three

42:56

a year . I got

42:59

a friend to come help me . Now

43:01

we are up to four a year , 30

43:03

people per meal , per meal . I have a team

43:06

of four that helps me .

43:08

So this is amazing . This is totally

43:10

amazing .

43:11

I started small . I borrowed some tables

43:13

, I got some bargain bin napkins at

43:16

World Market , just threw it together , didn't spend

43:18

a lot of money , and just like sort

43:20

of iterated my way to something that

43:23

now is a tradition that we

43:25

love . Yeah , stealing this idea

43:27

.

43:27

Okay , can I just say I've been following

43:30

these harvest dinners on social

43:32

At least . I know when you started and

43:35

when I moved to my most recent home

43:37

I told a friend I really want to get a huge

43:40

outdoor table so I can have harvest

43:42

dinners in my backyard like someone I know

43:44

. And it was you , Like you've inspired me to do

43:46

this .

43:46

This is amazing .

43:48

I think the idea of coming together

43:51

at a table is top tier and

43:53

I love that you've stuck with it and it's building

43:55

community .

43:56

Yeah , 100% . I love that too

43:58

.

43:59

It's allowing me the opportunity to be creative

44:01

, but , at the end of the day , all my other skill sets

44:04

project management , all those things help

44:06

as well . But yeah , I think that

44:09

was like something I'm really proud of , obviously

44:11

, and something that's pulled a lot of different

44:13

. I also think courage begets courage

44:15

, but also creativity begets creativity . Right

44:18

, if you put your creative thing out there 100%

44:20

. It's just going to attract other people's

44:22

creative things and I don't think everything well . So

44:25

I want the person who makes bread to bring their bread

44:27

. I want the person who loves music to create a playlist

44:29

Right .

44:30

I love this so much

44:33

and cannot wait for my invitation to your

44:35

one of your harvest dinners .

44:36

All right , when you

44:38

do this , I'm already inviting myself over Tiffany I

44:42

love it Because I want to steal this idea , but I need

44:44

to experience one first .

44:46

I love it . No , in all seriousness , I love this concept

44:48

. How cool , how cool 2024

44:50

.

44:50

Summer 2024 .

44:51

2024 . Let's go , let's lock it in . Julie

44:54

Goff , it has been such a wonderful

44:57

pleasure to have you here on the pod . Thank

44:59

you so much . We hope that we'll you'll

45:01

come back and just thank you for

45:04

all the wonderful insights on intrapreneurship

45:06

. I hope that our squad

45:09

you know one , I think just some

45:11

of your wisdom around courage , around

45:13

taking small steps , around the

45:15

opportunities that it creates

45:17

for career expansion , for learning , for growth and

45:20

also , you know , sharing your a

45:22

bit of your own journey . It's just been

45:24

lovely to have you here today . We appreciate you so much .

45:27

Oh , thank you and thank you all so much . I

45:29

love what you're doing , thank you .

45:31

Thanks , julie .

46:01

And don't forget to follow us on Instagram

46:03

at the manifesta and

46:05

tip talk at the

46:08

manifesta pod See

46:10

you next time .