0:00

All right. Jeff Booth, the author

0:02

of the Price of Tomorrow, a book that has oh

0:05

Man really sent people into a different direction. Awesome

0:07

book, Price of Tomorrow and ego death Capital.

0:10

I don't know, maybe prolific tech investor

0:12

entrepreneur will see anyway. Jeff, thanks

0:14

so much for joining me today. Great

0:17

to see you, my friend man so much to talk about.

0:19

We were having fun catching up, just talking about

0:21

fun personal stuff snowboarding and surfing

0:23

and taking trips and things like that. But I

0:26

think we're both also thinking that a lot of this

0:28

bitcoin technology stuff is also fun

0:31

as well. So I want to dive into that the

0:34

technology is advancing

0:37

so fast and sort of imagining

0:39

where this goes in the world and how we're rebuilding

0:41

and changing things, how

0:43

lives can change, how humanity can flourish.

0:46

That's the exciting part to me. I've often said

0:48

that the price is sort of the least interesting

0:50

thing, but let's talk about that for a minute.

0:53

The Bitcoin ETF is the news. I mean, that

0:55

is just dominating the news. I

0:58

don't like that because it's mostly just about

1:00

an investment kind of a

1:03

viewpoint of it. The number go up technology,

1:05

if you will. But you know,

1:08

as a tech entrepreneur, you know, you have sort of this diffusion

1:10

of innovation and there's a cas and that has to be crossed.

1:12

Maybe we're doing that. What's your thoughts on

1:14

the bitcoin and t F. Let's dig into that a little bit.

1:17

Yeah, probably similar to you. I think if

1:20

you think about how

1:22

many people understand bitcoin

1:24

right now in the world, and you should

1:26

say, say that's a one percent,

1:31

and then how many people really understand

1:33

what it means and how things

1:36

are in a change to it. We can explore some of

1:38

that through this podcast if

1:40

you want, but that would be probably

1:43

five percent of the one percent of so

1:46

the how small a number

1:48

of people actually understand what's happening

1:50

here in this asset class. And then what's happening

1:53

is the technology is being built on top

1:55

of this asset class and what's going to happen

1:57

what it does to the existing system such

2:00

a tiny piece of the overall

2:02

market that no wonder

2:04

people are confused. And so now if you

2:07

put in perspective with that,

2:10

with what the ETF

2:12

is doing, it is bringing

2:14

more awareness to this asset class.

2:17

And what ends up happening in

2:19

this asset class is people start

2:22

to see, wait, I'm living in a system

2:25

with manipulated money, a manipulated

2:27

ledger, and that's the reason why prices

2:29

are going up. And then they learn

2:31

a little bit about bitcoin, and maybe they learn

2:34

about it because they think, Okay,

2:36

that'll protect me, It'll give me a hedge

2:38

against the system that's failing. Over time,

2:41

and then some of those people, over time learn

2:43

more and more about it and start

2:46

shifting more and more of their attention into

2:48

it as they understand it more. So if

2:50

you just look through that lens of the ATF,

2:52

you'd say it's great. It's just it's

2:56

marketing that is going to bring a whole

2:58

bunch more of awareness about what's happen happening

3:00

to money and

3:02

how you can protect

3:05

yourself from money being debased.

3:07

And people are going to protect themselves because

3:09

of that. From there,

3:12

the question is how many people remove

3:15

to self custody and as

3:18

well, and I think you have

3:20

to look at some of the things that you see

3:22

in the world today, is behind

3:24

the scenes being coordinated and whether

3:27

they are or not, I think it's worth thinking

3:29

that way. And why I

3:32

say that is is if you if you said

3:36

human nature, if you could if you could

3:38

get if you could steal the productivity

3:41

that should flow to society in the form of

3:43

lower prices. By controlling money.

3:47

Human nature says that will always

3:49

happen, right, Greed

3:51

will make that happen no matter what, and

3:53

we've always lived so all throughout.

3:55

His will make prices drop.

3:57

You're saying no, no, no, So

4:01

this natural state of a free market

4:04

is deflationary,

4:07

so there is no inflation

4:09

over a long enough time period because what we do

4:12

we use things that give us more value.

4:16

Why you're using riverside right now app

4:19

to create this podcast is it gives you more value.

4:22

And if something competed with riverside that didn't

4:24

give you more value and it costs more, you wouldn't use

4:26

You wouldn't use it. If something gave you more

4:29

value and costs less, you would use it.

4:32

So everything we use creates

4:34

more use. It gives

4:36

us more value, and that means the natural

4:39

state has to be deflationary.

4:41

Of a free market. The only reason things

4:44

are inflationary short

4:46

of short term cycles, right

4:48

with the supply constraint or something. But

4:50

then what ends up happening is the free mark. Because

4:53

of the margins of that supply constraint,

4:56

entrepreneurs attack it and create

4:58

a different way of a model

5:00

to great abundance. And so the natural

5:02

state over a longer term is always

5:05

of a free market is deflationary.

5:08

We've always lived in the opposite, and

5:11

we live in the opposite because effectively,

5:13

if you could steal a small

5:16

amount of money from everybody

5:19

over time, you can aggregate a

5:21

massive control for doing nothing. So

5:24

human society it always has

5:26

been wired. If you could game it,

5:28

you would, right. That's why gold

5:30

gets corrupted, That's why you fractionalize

5:33

systems. That's why eventually you

5:35

go back to you go to war, because it breaks

5:37

world so much that then somebody

5:39

says, I'm going to reset the system on

5:42

a new standard, and then it

5:44

goes through that again. So natural

5:47

state is free. We've always lived

5:49

in the opposite. That means every history book that

5:51

anybody has ever written has this error

5:54

code in it.

5:56

It also has the error code because we've never

5:58

had something decentral lives and secure

6:01

that could be decentralized and

6:03

secure throughout time, and the

6:06

winners write the history books. So

6:08

it means all of our previous history

6:10

to this point before bitcoin was

6:12

built with this aero code. And so it makes

6:15

total sense that people are

6:17

confused with what this

6:19

new insight drives

6:21

forward rather than looking through

6:24

the past. It makes perfect sense. Now

6:27

what are we up against? What does bitcoin

6:29

up against? If you have a system that's

6:31

ten thousand times bigger, that

6:34

gains its power by

6:36

stealing yours, by

6:38

stealing money,

6:41

then what is it up against. It's

6:43

up against all human action doing

6:46

that. And I'm going to get in specifically

6:49

how that works. And it is also

6:51

up against some coordination

6:53

of you could say, the ETF.

6:57

If the ETF and what Warren

6:59

is doing at the same time to

7:02

try to make self self

7:04

custodial illegal, right, and

7:08

the ETF can short

7:10

and create fractionalized

7:13

on top of bitcoin and then acquire more bitcoin,

7:17

then you could say, and it's

7:19

worth thinking that that could happen because

7:22

then you're immune from it. But

7:25

if that was coordinated, I'm not saying it

7:27

is, but if that was coordinated, what would happen

7:30

in that world is a whole bunch of

7:32

people would trade their bitcoin or the paper

7:34

bitcoin in is

7:37

the ets acquired more and more bitcoin,

7:40

and you could create that leverage to

7:43

suppress bitcoin's price, just

7:46

like just like gold has been suppressed,

7:50

right, And you could create effectively

7:52

unlimited leverage in that system over time

7:55

and paper contracts to bitcoin. But

7:59

for people that are aired of that, and

8:01

I'm not saying some of that won't happen in the short term

8:04

because an office

8:07

action by a Warren making it

8:09

will drive fear in the market. At the

8:11

same time people could short it could drive

8:14

price in the short term going down.

8:17

But what would that then, Cause

8:20

there's too many people in the world right now, and

8:22

bitcoin is self custodial, and every

8:24

year it gets more decentralized and secure.

8:27

There's too many people in the world that have looked

8:29

behind the curtain. And once

8:31

they've looked behind the curtain and how money works,

8:34

they're never going back. And

8:36

so you probably run a node. I

8:39

run a node. I'm not selling my bitcoin,

8:42

and every time price falls

8:44

we actually I buy it anyways. But

8:47

there's more and more people bitcoiners that understand

8:50

this that are going to take that into

8:52

self custody.

8:54

So the reaction to

8:57

the system driving to

9:00

financialize this creates

9:02

more self self

9:05

custody at certain prices, and

9:07

as that happens, eventually,

9:10

if it was coordinated,

9:12

if there was something again not saying

9:14

there is, but if it was and

9:17

that was an attack factor for a bitcoin.

9:19

What would it end up happening is it would cause the

9:22

biggest short squeeze the world's

9:24

ever seen eventually, and

9:27

on that short squeeze would liquidate

9:29

financial players that were not

9:35

acting with integrity

9:37

or honesty. Because bitcoin doesn't care.

9:40

It's imposing fair

9:42

rules on society rather than

9:44

it could care less. It could care less about you and

9:47

me everything else. It's just imposing

9:49

that discipline.

9:52

Wow, a lot to unpack right there. I was making

9:54

some notes. We can come back to them.

9:57

I asked you if to clarify

9:59

something, and it wrong, but it got me thinking.

10:02

I said, so, it's it's greed that drives

10:04

prices down. You said no, But if you think about

10:06

it, in a true free market, if we

10:08

could stay free and not be co opted and gamed.

10:12

So in a true free market, it almost would be greed

10:14

that would drive prices down, because if I

10:16

saw you were making a killing in a certain

10:18

category, my greed would say, well,

10:20

I want to step in in front of Jeff and I'll make a

10:22

little bit less, right.

10:24

Yeah, And so go

10:27

ahead and keep going.

10:28

Yeah. It's just you know, it's interesting when you kind of flip

10:30

it on its head, and you have to kind of put that in sort

10:32

of parentheses in a free market, because

10:34

you know, what we're being told by the leaders is it's

10:36

greed that's driving prices up. It's

10:38

these greedy gas stations that drive prices, et

10:40

cetera. But in a free market, greed

10:43

would actually drive prices down. It'd

10:45

be the opposite.

10:47

We only get paid. We get paid. Entrepreneurs

10:49

get paid when they create more value for

10:51

others, period, right, And

10:54

and that's a competitive process. And

10:56

so they see and

10:59

in a free market, that competitive process continues

11:02

to attack. And where would an entrepreneur go.

11:04

Would you go to create the next calculator app?

11:06

Yeah, it's already free or would

11:08

you or would you go create? Or would you

11:11

go attack an industry that had high margins?

11:13

Of course, agree, it makes perfect

11:15

sense.

11:16

So the free market is constantly

11:19

under attack. There is

11:21

no monopoly in a free market, Yeah,

11:23

there.

11:23

Can't be so in in you know, in

11:25

this diffusion of innovation, you know this bell curve,

11:27

and you have sort of the innovators, the true believers, and

11:29

then you sort of have this chasm. And the chasm is where

11:32

something has to shift, you know,

11:34

in the mindset of people to sort of bring that early

11:36

majority in. And there's lots of things that could

11:39

cause that shift to happen, that that chasm

11:41

to be crossed, if you will. I

11:44

think the ETF is a big piece of that. So

11:46

all these people who think, well, it's just magic

11:48

internet money. I don't trust it, it's a scam at the tulip

11:50

it's whatever, it's too difficult, I don't you know,

11:52

throw it fill in the blank. All of a sudden

11:54

they're like, well, shoot, if my financial

11:56

advisor tells me to buy it, if Blackrock has it, if

11:59

you know whatever, And so that creates

12:01

the chasm to be crossed. And also

12:04

there's also another paradigm. And so I

12:07

gave a presentation a big buck Boom and packpitcoin

12:09

on you know, technological

12:11

Revolutions. I talk about him quite quite often.

12:14

And I

12:17

got this from this book Technological

12:19

Innovations and Financial Capital by Carlata

12:21

Perez, and she talks about

12:23

sort of this change and the

12:26

reason the things that these technologies have to do

12:28

in order to sort of have this revolution, and some of

12:30

that is in the mindset and so sort

12:32

of we have this normalcy bias, it's recentcy bias.

12:35

Hey, money always has to go up. Hey,

12:37

this is just how it goes, and so

12:39

that has to change. But there's people

12:41

that are entrenched in that that don't want that to happen,

12:45

and so we have to sort of fight against that. That's sort

12:47

of this orange pill movement, if you will. But

12:50

you mentioned one more thing, and is

12:52

that Ledwig Guan Misis

12:54

called it the crackup boom. And

12:56

then he said, and then suddenly the people realize

12:59

that inflation is both permanent and

13:01

intentional. Yeah, so

13:04

all of a sudden, you know, maybe in the last

13:06

ten years, inflation has been sort of thrown into

13:08

the forefront of things. The Fed is sitting

13:10

there saying, our goal is to get it back down.

13:12

We only want two percent. Oh so

13:14

it's intentional that you want to steal from me, and

13:16

I think people are doing that. And so sort

13:18

of bringing this together, that chasm not

13:21

only being brought sort of legitimized

13:24

by Wall Street jumping in, but

13:26

then also the chasm being crossed where

13:29

people are suddenly waking up to the fact that inflation

13:32

is permanent, and you know, to the point

13:34

that you that you've made I think everybody realizes I

13:36

have to go protect my wealth and when

13:38

you add those two things together, I

13:40

mean it's a pretty big hopefully

13:43

it'll be a pretty big shift to get people to sort

13:45

of see that new world.

13:47

Yeah, so think about yourself and let's

13:49

let's go why does

13:51

this exist? And how

13:54

much do you know about bitcoin? And how much

13:56

of your time is in bitcoin? And then

13:58

play that forward and how and just that

14:00

say how much was it three

14:02

or four or five years ago as

14:04

you started to understand, and how much is it

14:06

now? And how much will it be? And

14:09

then let's walk through how this works

14:11

and so how this works. So

14:14

we've already we've already made a

14:17

point. The free market is

14:19

deflationary, right, The

14:22

natural state of the free market is deflationary.

14:24

So that means every single

14:26

person that says yep

14:29

and then goes on carries on their life in the other

14:31

world, is making the other

14:33

world stronger to their

14:35

own to their own demise. Every

14:39

single the amount of time that you're measuring

14:41

from the other system, if you can say

14:43

yes, and prices fall to the marginal cost

14:45

of production over time, and technology

14:48

is a lever on that, and it's an

14:50

exponential lever that makes prices fall

14:52

faster, then

14:54

what you're doing by trying to capture

14:57

wealth in the existing system. All

15:00

all of the things in the existing system are

15:02

making everything worse for you. And

15:04

let me just show you how that works. So,

15:07

so you know this mark

15:10

that the magnificent seven

15:12

the tech companies. Without

15:14

the return of the tech companies, SMP

15:16

would be negative, right, Okay,

15:20

So what everybody does? Everybody

15:24

you do. I'm not saying you do, but

15:27

many people listening to this call will

15:29

store their wealth in the tech tech companies, and

15:33

then they'll use the tech companies that

15:35

are using AI to reduce the labor

15:38

because they use the tech companies because if they

15:40

don't use the tech companies, they don't get the same value.

15:43

And so the tech companies are creating this artificial

15:45

and general intelligence the magni that

15:49

is reducing the labor. And you should

15:51

have a normal market, you would probably

15:53

have about five percent deflation

15:56

per year compound and getting

15:58

more and more. So even

16:01

at that, if you were at zero

16:03

percent inflation, you'd be getting five percent

16:05

stolen from you a year. And

16:08

you go and spend more

16:10

of your own money trying to protect

16:12

your money from losing value by putting

16:14

it in a tech company, and

16:17

they use that at creating the monopoly

16:19

and reducing more and more labor to make

16:23

to drive that faster to give you more value

16:26

fair And so

16:30

then you say, well, how is this monopoly doing

16:32

this? But if they increase

16:35

their labor rate and much more or

16:37

much more labor, you wouldn't use their service

16:39

anymore. Somebody else would beat them. So

16:42

and then the pension funds that

16:44

holds your retirement are

16:47

all indexed to the same thing. So

16:49

they're driving more and

16:51

more money into the thing that's

16:53

driving for faster and faster deflation,

16:56

and you're part of your Every

16:58

single person in the world is trying to store their wealth

17:01

in those things because if they don't,

17:03

they'll lose more money faster. Now

17:06

let's look at the same thing on

17:08

bitcoin. Bitcoin. All

17:10

of those companies priced in bitcoin are

17:13

losing value, every

17:15

one of them. All

17:18

your houses, all your real estate is losing

17:20

value against bitcoin, all of

17:22

it. But most people are

17:24

storing their wealth within the system

17:26

that's debasing, making

17:28

it stronger, thinking they're winning on a losing

17:31

game and bitcoin could care

17:33

less. It's so this system

17:36

is based on a manipulated ledger,

17:38

and it's manipulating currency units, and

17:40

everybody and your voting in that system

17:43

to who should win, who

17:47

should get more of the manipulated

17:50

currency units to put to

17:52

their group or the other group, And

17:55

society is breaking everywhere because of

17:57

this. But every single person, in fact, many

17:59

of the podcast you listen to, are

18:02

yelling at the same system,

18:04

and they don't know they're making it stronger

18:07

by yelling at it. Right, all

18:09

of their actions are making it stronger. And

18:11

so why we've

18:13

created ego death and why I just just tired

18:16

of it. I just said it's nonsense. I

18:18

wanted to spend instead of ninety percent of my

18:20

time in the system that was creating this, I wanted

18:23

to spend ninety five hundred percent of my time

18:25

in the system that was repricing it.

18:27

But if we so let's let's take that, we'll transition

18:30

to ego death. What ego death is a

18:32

fund that you're in that invests

18:34

into bitcoin companies that are building this

18:36

new world. But let's

18:38

just take that previous example. I

18:41

had a good conversation with a

18:43

good friend, mutual friend, Jimmy Song, many

18:46

conversations. We ended up at a lot of places at the same

18:48

time, but in la PEC Bitcoin

18:50

and we were talking about this specifically, and

18:53

you know, he's such a bitcoin purist,

18:55

Maximus that you should just buy bitcoin and not invest

18:57

in anything. But I'm like, you know, who's going to go build

18:59

this thing? Right, we have we have to invest our money.

19:01

But back to kind of the point that you just made, right, So we're

19:03

investing into Facebook to make

19:07

our lives better, Right, We're getting value

19:09

from that. It makes my communication cheaper,

19:11

easier, faster, et cetera. So I have more value

19:13

there. But I'm putting my money into that system

19:15

that's causing I'm

19:18

perpetuating that system that's actually causing

19:20

me to have this inflation of force.

19:22

And then I yell at other Then I yell at other people

19:25

because it's their fault.

19:26

Right, But but I do it. But

19:28

if I'm putting my if I'm investing my

19:30

money into Facebook in order

19:32

to protect my value, I'm hoping

19:35

that Facebook is going to go look faster than

19:37

the inflation that is

19:39

debasing my value at the same time, right.

19:42

And it's not it's it's

19:45

it's not it's going up at the same rate. So

19:48

if you look at the monitor, if you look at the monetary

19:50

easing of about the liquidity

19:52

about eight and a half percent per year compounded

19:55

and then so it or maybe

19:58

some of those companies beat it for a fair a short

20:00

period of time, but over the long term,

20:02

you're just matching your same as

20:04

housing, right, so exactly

20:07

the same as housing.

20:08

Well, I mean, the S and P five hundred is

20:10

like a perfect proxy for inflation. I

20:12

think, I think what we're saying, and the media and US

20:14

real estate is as well totally.

20:16

However, there are scarce assets

20:19

that then outperform inflation. So for example,

20:21

the median US real estate went up about forty

20:23

percent, Austin, the fastest growing city of the United States

20:25

for the last twenty years, went up about forty percent, but

20:27

homes on the lake Lakefront Lake

20:29

Lakefront on Lake Travis went up one hundred and fifty

20:31

percent. Yeah, right, So

20:34

sort of the S and P five hundred, which the manuf

20:37

is the seven sort of make up and drive that have

20:39

kept up with inflation. A few will outperform

20:41

it for certain periods of time if you're a really good

20:43

exactly right, exactly okay,

20:46

But then contrast that too, Okay.

20:48

So I am an investor or I'm

20:51

just a regular person. I'm a doctor or whatever. I'm

20:53

making money I have savings. I want to protect that

20:55

savings from BE and D based and so I

20:57

can put it into Nvidia

21:00

Book et cetera, and hopefully that will at least

21:02

keep up with it, potentially beat it. Or I could

21:04

put it into x y Z bitcoin company,

21:06

which is also a tech company, which is also

21:09

hopefully going to beat it. I mean, so what's

21:11

the million?

21:12

So what's

21:15

different here is the nine

21:17

hundred trillion dollars of global wealth. Imagine

21:20

you have a percentage of that ledger, right,

21:24

and you could say, if Mark Moss

21:26

has a million dollars, you could just calculate exactly

21:28

what percent you have of that ledger If

21:31

that ledger is one point five quadrillion

21:34

tomorrow, because there's a whole

21:36

bunch more manipulation of money and

21:38

you're part of that ledger doesn't

21:40

go up by that mount you lost money,

21:43

but you didn't know you lost money. That's what That's

21:45

what you're living in, and that's what everyone is

21:47

pricing their is en And when they

21:50

naturally say what is bitcoin price

21:52

in this ledger, they're making

21:55

that calculation error. When

21:57

I say it's saying decentralized and secure

22:00

on the on the base ledge,

22:03

then it is inevitable. If it

22:05

stay is decentralized and secure, it

22:07

reprices everything in the nine hundred

22:09

trillion. So you

22:11

could say, how much of a percentage of

22:13

twenty one million do I have for

22:17

all of time? And compare

22:20

and contrast how much do you need for your

22:22

living lifestyle? If

22:24

you can hold it decentralized and secure,

22:27

it will reprice everything else. So

22:30

then then your next question, I think,

22:32

is why would I invest

22:34

if I can invest in that asset?

22:37

Essentially, if I can own a new

22:40

if I can own the new Internet,

22:43

not just the value on top of it,

22:45

but I can own a piece of the new Internet,

22:47

and all future value accrues to me. Or

22:50

is said another way that I like to say it is if

22:52

prices should fall to the marginal cost

22:55

of production, if the free market is

22:57

is deflationary, then the anything

23:00

that can measure it as a fixed currency, So

23:04

in other words, all things forever if

23:06

you measure in bitcoin will fall in price at

23:08

the same rate they should fall in.

23:10

Price as long as it stays.

23:14

And so so now, and the only

23:16

reason I say, if it stays decentralized

23:18

and secure, I think it's

23:21

almost inevitable, or

23:24

points something one

23:27

probability that something could break

23:29

it. Why I say if it stays decentralized

23:32

and secure is so people do their own homework

23:34

on why that's inevitable. So

23:37

so because they need to understand this

23:39

asset class is different than anything

23:41

they've ever seen, and they're through

23:44

the through it the Fiat machine

23:46

of manipulating money, they

23:49

won't see what's unique. They

23:51

have to do the work because all

23:53

of the all of the information that

23:55

is in the Fiat machine would try

23:57

to stop this from from working.

24:01

So then, first

24:03

of all, for the listeners, of course,

24:06

Jeff and I agree on this. I've been an advisor for Trambill

24:08

Venture Partners for about two years, so I look at all the

24:10

bitcoin only VC stuff, and I'm a partner

24:12

with a Bitcoin Opportunity fund with our mutual

24:15

friends James and David and Larry and all those

24:17

guys. So we're also investing in the bitcoin

24:19

space as well. But just to kind of understand

24:21

this point for everybody who's listening, and even for

24:23

myself, to be honest with you, so we go back to sort

24:26

of investing into nvidiaoir Facebook and

24:29

hoping to beat inflation. But I'm perpetuating

24:31

the same system if you will so whatever, or

24:34

I could invest into X y z

24:36

bitcoin company anchor watch, I

24:38

mean whatever, you name it, right, you got on the line.

24:42

The mechanism is the same. I'm

24:44

still investing my money, whether

24:47

that be dollars or bitcoin into a company

24:49

hoping to beat inflation.

24:52

I'm guessing what you're saying is the difference

24:54

is how I'm measuring that money. Am

24:56

I measuring in US dollars or am measuring

24:59

my return in bitcoin?

25:00

Yeah? So in Vidia they're

25:02

free cash flows or in the dollars that are being

25:05

deluded, And

25:07

so your your your entire

25:09

investment is in the debasing currency,

25:12

and in this it is not so if

25:14

you can if you're creating So so

25:17

what I think is happening in our

25:19

companies and some of the companies if you see

25:21

that they and by the way, and this isn't

25:24

just our fund Let's say

25:26

there's lots of funds in this space, at

25:29

least the bitcoin only funds

25:31

that understand this your

25:34

venture. You can

25:36

actually get venture returns on

25:38

top of a venture asset.

25:42

So you're getting bitcoin returns

25:44

as opposed.

25:45

To exactly so our company, our companies

25:47

are are by creating the enabling

25:50

foundations of the things that just

25:52

similar to the like the Internet. But if

25:54

if you owned a piece of the Internet and

25:57

then and then there returns

25:59

and we're collect more bitcoin because

26:01

of the value that they were creating. And

26:03

if you see some of the rates of the growth of the companies

26:07

measure in their balance, sheees moving

26:09

up by acquiring more bitcoin

26:12

because there because it's denominated

26:14

in that and their transactions are based in it.

26:17

You you have an underlying asset that

26:20

I like to look at it as it's not going

26:22

up forever. All prices are falling against

26:25

it forever. But now you're

26:27

collecting more of that underlying asset,

26:29

so you can by by

26:32

having successful companies, so you I

26:34

believe we're going to have venture returns

26:36

on top of a venture type asset.

26:39

Right.

26:40

It's like so when I think

26:43

about that, I think, and I

26:45

can't believe everybody is not here. I

26:47

can't believe there's not more people understanding this

26:49

because because I

26:52

can prove what I just said, because

26:55

it's repriced every other

26:57

asset class over the less the

27:00

credit.

27:00

The critic could say over what time frame, Right,

27:03

obviously over the over the last fifteen years. It certainly

27:05

has over the last two years, it hasn't,

27:07

right, So.

27:08

But any four year any four year cycle,

27:10

it has, right.

27:12

And obviously as a venture

27:14

investor, like we're thinking long term seven to

27:16

ten years typically at a minimum, right, So to

27:18

your point, every four years it has. And

27:20

so if you're thinking, and I say all the time, I

27:22

mean, if you're if you're if you're marketing your portfolio

27:25

market on a monthly basis or a quarterly basis, like,

27:27

you're never going to make it. Like Charlie Munger

27:29

said, the big money is made not in the buying and the selling,

27:31

but in the waiting, right, So waiting

27:34

for that to develop.

27:35

Yeah, and keep and play and play that

27:37

forward. But we have a we have a system

27:40

that you're in measuring your returns

27:42

every every day in

27:44

the other system because it

27:46

forces you to do so, because it's debasing.

27:49

So people are trying to store their

27:51

wealth and most of their wealth is

27:53

stored in the system that's debasing.

27:56

It's it's insane, right. And

27:59

I think when I think about risk return, I

28:01

think even Sam is an entrepreneur.

28:05

I think the best entrepreneurs are actually aren't

28:09

risk takers like people think they are. I

28:11

think they're really great risk allicators,

28:13

and the difference is they

28:15

look at the risk of where they are now versus

28:20

the new and what they're going to do.

28:23

And so today when people are looking at bitcoin,

28:26

they're looking at the risk of the new and they haven't

28:28

done the work to understand it, and

28:30

they think their own system has no risk

28:33

when all of the risk is in the existing

28:35

system. So what

28:38

you're having is terrible risk

28:40

gllicators. And

28:42

then as they get more as

28:44

a system paralyzes them through more

28:46

fear right, and you hear

28:48

the WF and they yell at it

28:51

all the time, and all of these things are

28:53

capturing their attention, making

28:55

them even worse risk galicators

28:58

because they're trying to protect their money in

29:01

the exact same that's thing that's staying

29:03

being debased.

29:05

Right, So bitcoin

29:09

is repricing everything. I can go back another quote from

29:11

Letwoo Bonemesis, and I believe he said that in

29:14

economics, there's no such thing as a constant,

29:17

and so we always had like this commodity money,

29:19

and so whether we're measuring things in oil or gold,

29:21

there's no constant there, like the supply, the demand,

29:24

the technology changes that all constantly.

29:27

But now we have it right now Bitcoin has a

29:29

fixed, limited supply, So for the first time we have a neutral

29:32

asset that does have a fixed supply.

29:34

So he was right at the time. Now

29:36

it's different. And so to your point that you're making, it's starting

29:38

to reprice everything. And if you have a long

29:41

enough vision and you think at least in four year

29:43

cycles, if not longer, it is it

29:45

has been historically been repricing things,

29:47

you feel strong that it will as do I.

29:52

It looks like even Larry Fink thinks it will

29:54

as well, which is pretty interesting. But there's

29:56

one thing that you keep saying, nothing's

29:59

guaranteed in this life, and you keep saying, if

30:02

it stays decentralized and secure. I

30:05

listen to you sort of debate this

30:07

out with George Gammon, another

30:09

friend of mine, and

30:12

he has a little bit hard time sort of wrapping

30:14

his head around that part, I think. But you had

30:16

to keep saying over and over and over that decentralized and insecure,

30:18

So that seems to be the risk factor

30:21

in your mind. So purpose this

30:23

is almost certain as long as those two

30:25

things stay true. Ye.

30:27

So and if you say what

30:29

George would say, and George is fantastic,

30:32

and I think, really really sharp on how

30:34

the existing system works and sharp

30:36

on history as well of how

30:38

these things got co opted. And

30:40

he would he would use, well, human nature

30:42

won't let it. It will centralize

30:44

it. And the question

30:47

I have is how.

30:50

How?

30:52

Because because as more people understand

30:54

this, and remember this is a different

30:57

this is different than gold. It can't

30:59

get centralized gold is

31:01

so you can self custody this asset

31:03

yourself, and you can run your

31:05

own node. And so what

31:07

he says is, well, governments

31:10

will, we will take it over. And

31:13

the question you ask is how into.

31:15

To what end?

31:17

Because because let's

31:19

let's just imagine this place forward as

31:22

it's plain, because you really have to think about

31:24

if that's true, what would specifically

31:27

happen to be able to break that. And

31:29

so the governments, let's say they're going to print

31:32

more money to be able to make

31:34

their currency, and they're going to lock the doors

31:37

and they're going to Janet Yellen and

31:39

Warren and everything else, and they're going to conspire

31:42

and make bitcoin self

31:44

custody illegal in the US. So

31:49

if that happened, and it happened all over the world

31:51

at the same time, yes, then

31:53

that would slow It would for

31:55

a time that price would fall a bitcoin.

31:58

But what it would signal to the world

32:01

everyone is you better

32:03

move faster on bitcoin, and

32:05

as price fell, more and more people would

32:07

self custody. And

32:10

I think it would be just like in other regions

32:13

where you lock down a currency and you

32:15

say there's capital controls on my currency.

32:17

The currency goes underground and there's

32:19

a black market currency that actually moves faster

32:21

and it is the real price. The free market is the

32:24

real price, and you have a ponzie.

32:27

So every single one of these things

32:30

can't actually happen by the free market

32:32

unless everyone in the world says,

32:35

yep, I want to live in a cage. Right,

32:39

nobody would do that. It just wouldn't happen.

32:42

So and then, so

32:44

now let's say that what does it look like

32:47

to George's point or to

32:49

other people who question, so,

32:51

what that would mean is as

32:54

the currency units inflate faster,

32:58

Bitcoin is still re pricing the world. Right

33:02

and then and then what ends up happening is

33:05

every every country competes

33:08

for labor and capital, the

33:11

best people in investment, and so as

33:13

it starts to happen around the world, why

33:16

would it look any different in the future

33:18

than it's always looked competing for labor

33:20

and capital. It's just more

33:23

of the bitcoiners will have the capital, yeah,

33:26

and more of the great talent will be on the bitcoin

33:28

layer, building kind of abundance for the future

33:31

on an on at sledger, which would

33:33

be high demand in regions

33:36

that say we're going to we're going to

33:38

build a free market here.

33:41

The game theory, right, and that the chance,

33:44

the odds, the probability of all

33:46

the governments of the world all coopting and deside

33:48

at the same time is very slim. I

33:51

thought it would be actually impossible. Obviously,

33:54

seeing what happened during the COVID pandemic lockdown

33:56

made me unfortunately think a little bit. Otherwise, it

33:58

was pretty well coordinated across the world simultaneously,

34:01

so that that was a that was that was a

34:03

shock to my thinking. So I have to kind of keep that

34:05

in mind. But game theory

34:08

is there. And so to your point, and if they did it

34:10

in the West, if you will Canada, the US, you

34:12

know, UK, et cetera, you

34:14

still might have El Salvador or you know,

34:16

Argentina now at this point or whatever, and

34:18

then they're going to attract the best and the brightest kind

34:20

of to the point that you're making so you sort of have that, but

34:24

maybe some of the other risk factors

34:26

if we just kind of want to play this out a little bit, because again

34:28

trying to think it, will it stay decentralized and secure?

34:32

You know, potentially you know, Blackrock

34:35

taking over Bitcoin Core developers putting

34:38

you know, bad malicious code in something

34:41

like that. Now we run notes, so we don't have to accept

34:43

those updates, right, so

34:45

so.

34:46

Yeah, so so, but again I

34:48

think all of these things like that there

34:52

were used to thinking these giant

34:54

organizations that control us, and they're going

34:56

to control us, and you make them

34:58

stronger with your own thinking by allowing

35:00

that to happen. And the people that are

35:02

moving to Bitlin and spending their time in

35:05

this and by the way, I'm not even talking about what's

35:07

being built on top. If

35:10

you were some of those people trying to do

35:12

this, you have no

35:14

idea what's coming, no

35:16

idea how fast this is exploding.

35:19

If you think about fetiment and some

35:22

of this stuff, the regulation

35:24

is chasing where this might have been four or five,

35:26

six, eight years ago.

35:28

Yeah, they can't keep up, not where

35:30

it is today.

35:31

And what's happening and is the more and more

35:33

people who understand why freedom

35:35

matters start

35:38

to vote with their time and

35:40

money and energy for freedom

35:42

instead of saying

35:45

I can't do anything because those

35:47

other people are going to control me. They

35:50

take the power from those people. That's

35:54

the repricing event that is happening.

35:56

So Blackrock looks so big because

36:00

because our pension funds hold their money into black

36:02

Rock, because Blackrock has inside

36:04

ball on the financial system and it's the only

36:06

way they can have a return because

36:10

of the inside ball. And without

36:12

inside ball and the financial system, black

36:14

Rock gets smaller. And where does the

36:16

money go to. It goes to you. It

36:19

goes to Bitcoin holders that are

36:21

repricing black Rock too. And so,

36:26

for the life of me, I

36:28

can't understand people that

36:30

say I can't do

36:32

this and I'm going to spend all my time for fear.

36:35

Well, they make the thing that they want to

36:37

happen they don't want to happen happen

36:39

faster to them. It's ludicrous

36:42

where they are a node in the network. They're a node in

36:44

this network, and good luck convincing

36:47

me otherwise.

36:49

And they're literally giving money to a company

36:51

that's working against their own best interess.

36:53

We're working. And I'm not talking about

36:55

in the ETF, I'm not talking about anything

36:58

else, but through the pension

37:00

fund, through all of their actions and everything

37:02

else they're there.

37:05

All of the people at w UF right

37:07

now right are

37:10

funded by this extraction

37:13

of wealth from the same people

37:15

that are yelling at it.

37:16

Yeah, yeah,

37:19

think about it. Yeah, to your point, all the people

37:21

that are online screaming, to your point

37:23

that you're making, screaming about how bad this is, they want

37:25

to take away our rights all these things. Well, why

37:28

are you giving them your money? Your money is sitting in there in their pension

37:30

fund, in their account, and that's what they're using to go to

37:32

fly to Davos to make these types of regulations.

37:35

In your in your housing that you're trying to do

37:37

that, in all of these instruments

37:39

that you're trying to do that, you're making it

37:42

stronger, and then yelling at them saying saying,

37:44

well you are

37:46

so it's not there is no day, it's us

37:49

and if you take your time and move

37:51

it to the system, it's

37:53

going to happen. Anyways, This new system

37:56

is expanding because once this insight

37:58

is has found as

38:01

free, people want to build into a

38:03

free market. And allow

38:06

what the free market should look like. It's

38:09

going to impose that because there's

38:11

a wall of people moving into that, spending

38:14

their time and energy. And that's why I just

38:16

cannot believe I get to do this. Yeah,

38:18

I get to the smartest people I've ever met.

38:22

Yeah. So I think a couple of things. Just

38:24

so back to the decentralized and secure. Some

38:27

of it really comes down to, I

38:30

don't know, I guess to your point, the education

38:33

or the desire for freedom. Right. So if we look at it

38:35

from the standpoint, the war on drugs

38:37

has been a pretty big failure. I mean, since nineteen seventy

38:39

one, they've spent you know, over three trillion dollars and drugs

38:42

is the number one killer in America right today,

38:44

right, And so the war on drugs has done nothing. And that's like a

38:46

physical product that's been you know, grown,

38:49

cultivated, package, ship, process, distribute, et

38:51

cetera. Big one is decentralized

38:53

more importantly digital, so it can't be technically

38:56

seen or you don't have to carry it, et cetera. But

38:59

the point more in the incentive mechanism.

39:01

When they don't tell you not to do heroin, it doesn't make

39:03

you want to do heroin. But when they tell you

39:05

that you don't have a right to store your wealth in a way they can't

39:07

steal from you, it sort of makes you want

39:10

to do that. Right. That's why in America,

39:13

when they start talking about gun control laws,

39:15

gun sales go through the roof, right, Oh,

39:17

you're going to take away my freedom, Well, then I'm going to go act

39:19

right now. So they're only really speeding

39:22

that mechanism up. And so you

39:24

know, I would say I was thinking as

39:26

you were talking, so really what we need is

39:29

more education to educate

39:31

people about this. But

39:33

the reality is is that we are

39:35

driven by self action and

39:37

self determination. And so when

39:40

I have a problem, I go look for a solution. And

39:42

so when I see my freedom as under attack,

39:45

I'm going to go find the solution to preserving

39:47

myself from that freedom. And so I

39:50

mean, I suppose sure education to

39:52

continue to kind of keep that in the forefront. But as

39:55

and this is what I tell people all the time, do you think governments print

39:57

more or less money in the future, And of course answer

39:59

is more. And do you think governments become more authoritarian

40:02

or less in the future? And I think the answer is of course more

40:05

authoritarian until they can't be anymore.

40:07

And so I think those things are driving it. And as long

40:09

as we can keep those answers in front of people, they're

40:12

naturally going to be incentivized to

40:14

go find those I want

40:16

to jump into ego death. So

40:19

you said, if people only

40:21

knew what was being built, and

40:24

they would realize that the government's years behind

40:26

where you know these builders are going. So

40:29

I want to talk about that. Let's talk about ego death. You

40:31

just announced that you're starting a fun number

40:33

two, one hundred million dollars, big number.

40:38

So one, I'm guessing that there's

40:41

massive appetite for that

40:43

that you're seeing that, So tell me about the appetite. Two,

40:46

there's massive opportunity. So

40:49

there's more opportunities that you want to get into. And

40:51

then maybe three you can tell us about some of these

40:53

and you don't have to name specifics, but what are some of these

40:55

things that maybe are running light years

40:58

in front of where these regulators are.

41:00

Yeah. So,

41:03

so one, the thesis of the First Fund,

41:05

like many of the other bitcoin

41:07

only ventures, but the thesis

41:10

of the First Fund was I thought there was this

41:12

massive asymmetry of

41:14

knowledge that bitcoin was this decentralized

41:17

and secure bedrock that

41:19

couldn't scale for

41:21

a long time, and that is what made

41:23

the value. So all you had to do is hold on

41:25

to it, and it created and you were

41:28

creating value. So obviously in

41:30

a free market that if that's all it

41:32

was decentral utralized and secure

41:34

and you couldn't scale it, and

41:37

everyone was getting rich by holding bitcoin,

41:39

everyone else would naturally create other

41:41

coins, saying

41:45

using bitcoin's growth to say my

41:47

coin is better than that coin because

41:49

it does x, it's a totlet

41:51

natural that would be what the market would look like

41:54

it's playing out, and again it still probably

41:57

looks like that today. So the thesis

41:59

at the time was people

42:01

haven't done the work on bitcoin and why it's a

42:03

different asset class completely and it's repricing

42:06

everything else, and until

42:08

they do that work, they're at a massive disadvantage

42:11

and they're going to invest in all of this coins

42:14

and nonsense, and all

42:16

of those things over time will go to zero. Every

42:19

other thing other than Bitcoin will go to zero because

42:22

you would never use a blockchain, essentially

42:25

a high cost database, if it wasn't decentralized

42:27

and secure, you'd just use a database, right,

42:31

So you'd never do that. And then at the

42:33

same.

42:33

Time, because a

42:35

blockchain is a slow, inefficient

42:37

database, and exactly why the.

42:39

Only the only thing, the

42:41

only thing, the only use case is the decentralized

42:44

insecurity, essentially the ledger of

42:46

money and is the biggest

42:48

use case on the planet because money is manipulated.

42:51

It's the biggest thing. They say. So when people say it

42:53

doesn't have a use case, have you

42:55

looked at how big and bloated governments are. Have

42:57

you look at regulation, If you looked at

42:59

all of the things that extract wealth from

43:01

you, that's what it gives back to you. It's

43:04

the biggest use case that every world has ever

43:06

seen, and you can't see it right before

43:08

her eyes.

43:09

Jamie Diamond at Davos,

43:11

he said, you know, bitcoin has no use case. I'm tired

43:13

of talking about blah blah blah. He said, it's only

43:16

used for basically

43:18

crime, right, he said, it's avoiding sanctions,

43:21

a M l K y C. Stuff. I

43:24

think, he said, you know, sex, trafficking, fraud,

43:27

and it's

43:29

just a bunch of people trading between themselves.

43:32

Yeah, that's exactly that's exactly right. It's

43:35

the work outside of the sanctioned. You know, basically

43:38

everything is sanctioned at this point, and yes,

43:40

so we can trade between

43:42

ourselves exactly.

43:44

So I suspect Jamie

43:46

Diamond is just a highly paid actor, and

43:49

he's highly paid from the money that he skims

43:52

off the top from that should be in your pockets.

43:55

That's what ends up happening because he sits at the top

43:58

of a system that must steal productivity

44:00

that should flow to society in the form of

44:02

lower prices right by his

44:05

space and the system. So what would

44:07

a highly paid actor in

44:09

that system say about a

44:11

system that gives you back your freedom

44:13

and power, right because it takes

44:16

it so of course.

44:18

But my point is is he was basically

44:20

saying the only use case for bitcoin would

44:22

be so you could have freedom and power that

44:24

the state couldn't have. I mean, he was making the

44:26

case for it inadvertency, right, But

44:28

anyway, I'm taking you sort of off your thesis

44:30

for for ego death and going

44:33

the first.

44:34

But again, that's that's what you're up against,

44:36

and that's what the world is looking at with

44:38

all of that. And it's not just Jamie Dinmond, it's

44:41

all of the system that So if you think

44:43

about regulation if you think, if you think about

44:45

regulation today, I've said this many times, but

44:48

you have regulation to protect

44:50

your money on top

44:53

of a system designed to steal your money. Yeah,

44:56

right, what would that look like? Right?

44:59

Just be let's be really honest,

45:01

Like the free market is deflationary, and

45:03

that's a big topic. The natural state of free market

45:06

is deflation It's so big it breaks

45:08

your brain. So if you can say that and understand

45:10

that, and then go back and say, but I'm going to

45:12

live in this other world in price from that other world,

45:15

then it's your own fault that the world looks.

45:17

Like it is from that. I mean, the regulation

45:20

doesn't protect your money from a system trying to steal

45:22

it. The regulation actually protects

45:24

them to be able to continue to steal your money.

45:26

Because why forces me to keep

45:29

us my money in a system that's rent seekers

45:31

in every area as opposed to letting me use it freely?

45:34

Do you think?

45:35

Why do you think big tech is

45:37

trying so hard to regulate AI? Why

45:41

do you think why do you think why

45:45

do you think drug companies look like they do? Why do you think

45:47

food companies look like the big agriculture?

45:49

Why do you think it's been co opted?

45:52

By regulation, because regulation protects

45:54

the monopoly, it doesn't protect you. Why

45:57

do you think regulation is on top of money, Because

45:59

it protects a monopoly of money, not you.

46:02

The entire system is and just

46:04

look at the evidence. Every single industry

46:06

has been driven this

46:08

way. Why because prices fall

46:11

to the marginal cost of production and free in

46:13

a free market. What is the what

46:16

is the marginal cost of production of a line of code

46:19

zero? What's the marginal cost of production

46:21

of a line of code created by other code? Lines

46:23

of code? Where AI is going zero,

46:26

The only way they can drive the prices

46:28

up and create the monopoly is through regulation,

46:31

scaring you that they will protect

46:33

you from the very same thing

46:35

that steals the thing becoming

46:37

free for you. So

46:40

that is the free market, That's what it looks like.

46:42

And the regulation on top of it makes it

46:44

not a free market. And that

46:47

whole thing is getting worse and worse and worse,

46:50

and people are stuck in that fear loop making

46:52

it worse. The only thing that can stop it is

46:54

something that has no counterparty risk to

46:56

the existing system outside decentralized

46:59

and secure. So that was our take.

47:02

People were so misunderstanding this asset

47:04

class. They hadn't done the work. They hadn't understand

47:06

how this is the first time in history that

47:09

this is something like this has existed, and

47:12

we felt sure that it would become

47:14

more decentralized and more secure over

47:16

time, which it is. And

47:18

then we said, now

47:21

there's with lightning and other things

47:24

emerging on top. You can scale

47:26

in layers like protocol,

47:30

like the like the Internet scaled and layers,

47:33

and there is going to be more and more

47:36

ability to be built on top, and

47:38

that's going to turn into that overtime

47:41

is going to turn into a peer to peer internet

47:44

bounded by energy that

47:46

creates an entirely a new world.

47:49

And so I selfishly I

47:51

wanted to be involved in that. When

47:54

I think about I wanted to. I

47:57

knew that bitcoin was repricing everything

47:59

else, but so

48:02

at first I had a hedge in bitcoin,

48:04

and I was spending most of my time in

48:07

what we just described, and

48:11

I thought, I'm a hypocrite,

48:14

right, yeah,

48:17

I'll be protected, but I'm spending

48:19

my time and energy on a whole

48:21

bunch of company boards in the existing space,

48:26

and every time a company wins there money

48:29

has to be manipulated faster to

48:32

be able to drive up prices,

48:37

and so I thought, if I know this

48:39

and I can see it coming, and I can see

48:41

similar to what I saw in the Internet,

48:44

it's kind of the best and the brightest we're moving in

48:46

this space. What am I doing spending

48:49

ninety percent of my time in the FIAT world.

48:52

I'm going to spend it all in

48:56

this And I'll tell you it's

48:58

been. It's been remarkable

49:01

because you get to see that

49:04

it's I didn't think i'd have another chance

49:06

to do this. Like in the early days

49:08

of the Internet, I remember thinking, Wow,

49:11

people don't see this, people don't see what's

49:13

coming, and

49:17

and the type of talent that existed

49:19

there, it was just it was your

49:22

brain was on fire all the time because it

49:24

was just you're learning at such a rate from

49:26

some of the really some super

49:28

smart and dedicated

49:31

entrepreneurs and such and capital. This

49:34

is bigger. This is

49:37

this is way bigger because

49:40

because it's the same as the Internet, but the best prayers,

49:42

but it's aligned with where humans are

49:44

going and so it's

49:46

more meaningful. And

49:48

so the type of people, the type of integrity

49:51

that is built into the space, the

49:53

type of people that actually understand this and are building

49:55

it's so much more powerful than than

49:57

than the Internet was.

49:59

Yeah, yeah, would agree. You know, I talk about it all

50:01

the time, and you see it if you go to a bitcoin conference.

50:04

You know, the mainstreams to tell us

50:06

that we align on identities, you know,

50:08

black, women, male, straight, gay, whatever it

50:10

may be, but we align on values.

50:13

And there's some values that I think are more

50:15

important than others, like freedom and human flourishment,

50:18

for example. And so to the point that you're making sort

50:20

of bitcoin has attracted the people that care about

50:22

those types of topics. And when you're

50:24

in some of these bitcoin events, I mean

50:26

you can just feel it. You can just feel the vibration,

50:29

you can feel the energy in the room, so

50:31

to speak. And so to your point, you

50:33

know, it's attracted the best and the brightest, and really

50:36

maybe crypto has almost sort of helped that right

50:38

as this great filtering mechanism, because if you

50:41

only care about the money, you're

50:43

going to go to the crypto side, and

50:45

if you go to the bitcoin side, you're basically

50:48

admitting to take less money and

50:50

to go the long, hard way. And

50:53

so only.

50:55

There isn't an entrepreneur in our portfolio,

50:57

or I don't think in the bitcoin space that

51:01

would take money from vcs

51:03

that were crypto vcs because

51:08

you don't want to. You don't want a shareholder that's

51:11

misaligned with your at

51:13

that level, at an integrity

51:16

level, or or

51:18

that you have to teach about a protocol

51:20

that's so different. Can you imagine

51:22

trying to take money from somebody who had no clue

51:25

about what we're talking about right now? Your

51:28

values aren't aligned and so

51:30

so why this is expanding and why it's just such

51:33

a beautiful space. And if

51:35

you just look at thefolio, the portfolio

51:37

of success and what's happening in the

51:40

companies that we funded already, Like,

51:44

I literally can't believe I get to do it.

51:47

I can't believe I get to work with these brilliant

51:49

people creating this value

51:51

for other people, and they and they're creating

51:54

value for themselves in the companies out

51:56

of creating staggering value for other people

51:58

and bringing on billions of people to this asset

52:00

loss. That's what's going to happen.

52:02

Yeah, And I in this presentation,

52:05

I gave as I said it, a bit block boom in and Packpitcoin.

52:07

I was sort of at Packpitcoin.

52:09

I put a slide in where I had said

52:11

sort of I showed oil like a cann of

52:13

oil or barrel of oil, and so you

52:16

have oil like an asset, but

52:18

then you have the oil industry, so like

52:20

who made the sonar for the oil tanker

52:22

to sell across the ocean, or who made the

52:24

satellite tracking to track you know, or who made the

52:27

new drill head to go horizontal or whatever it may be.

52:29

Right, so you have the asset bitcoin, but

52:31

you have this whole industry of all these

52:33

things that have to be built. And if we don't invest

52:35

into that, basically we have a model t in

52:38

our front yard sitting on blocks because we have

52:40

no tire shops and no gas stations and

52:42

no roads to drive it on. And so the sort

52:44

of the challenge was to the bitcoiners in that in

52:46

that presentation, was that cool,

52:48

you bought your bitcoin, you're hoddling on a hill,

52:51

but just like your modeltes on blocks,

52:53

But if you don't go and help build out

52:56

this ecosystem, then you don't

52:58

have roads to drive it on. And so there's

53:00

this entire ecosystem that needs to be built.

53:02

And so that's obviously we're hoping

53:04

to return better capital, but it's also potentially

53:07

like hey, we just need to build this world that we believe

53:09

in.

53:10

Yeah, but and just building

53:12

on that. I just think, So there's

53:15

an asymmetry and knowledge just on the asset

53:17

layer, right, So probably

53:19

less than one percent I really understand

53:22

the asset layer really

53:24

a lot less than one present. Even people that hold

53:26

it don't really understand

53:28

how it's reprising everything else. Now,

53:31

there's a massive asymmetry of knowledge in

53:34

what you can build on top. And

53:37

then you look at this world and you say, there's

53:39

all these problems. Right,

53:42

What entrepreneurs do is they race

53:44

for the hardest to solve problem because

53:47

that's where the return is is by

53:49

solving it, they'd solve it for

53:53

millions or billions of others and

53:55

they create something really magical. That's

53:57

what. So every time you hear a problem,

54:01

I just go, Okay, that's

54:03

screaming at me. Here's

54:06

how how would you? How would you solve

54:08

that? So when you think about this kind

54:11

of the the today you could

54:13

call it. Bitcoin might

54:15

not, but on top

54:18

of bitcoin, it might look like a backcountry

54:22

roads, gravel roads. The

54:24

super highways are coming, right,

54:27

and all of the stuff that's being built on

54:30

on top of, on top of this is

54:32

coming and it's going to provide incredible

54:34

value to those entrepreneurs and society

54:37

by by solving those problems. So

54:41

I when I when I see a

54:43

big, hairy problem like that, I think that's

54:45

where I want to go.

54:47

Yeah, I love it. I love

54:49

it. So and you're doing it. You're

54:51

building the world that you want, and

54:53

you're helping other people do the same. So ego

54:56

death Bitcoin, Ego death.

54:58

Fun number two open and ready for business,

55:00

and just maybe this last question will

55:02

just transition out. I mean, I

55:05

think I think it's already sort of self explanatory.

55:07

But this is obviously a much bigger fund number two,

55:10

and so it's not just the demand to get

55:12

into this from the investor side, but you're also

55:14

seeing an explosion of opportunities

55:16

that need funding to grow as well. So I mean,

55:18

we've seen it on both sides. Yeah.

55:20

So that so that's why So we actually

55:23

our first fund we kept small,

55:25

specifically because the ecosystem was

55:27

small, and that would allow us way more time

55:30

to be really kind

55:32

of helping the entrepreneurs and spend

55:34

more time inside some of those companies

55:37

that would be enablers

55:39

of what would come. Now those enablers

55:41

are growing, some of them are growing extraordinarily

55:44

fast, like

55:47

blow me away completely, like

55:50

the crazy

55:52

fast and you

55:55

and now in those you think about

55:57

the next step their Series A or Series

56:00

BE and everything else and now. But

56:02

there aren't a lot of Series A funds and bitcoin

56:04

only their Series A

56:06

funds broadly and everything else. And those

56:09

entrepreneurs don't want to go to somebody

56:11

who doesn't understand bitcoin for

56:14

capital because that means teaching

56:17

about bitcoin and everything else and their business.

56:19

So that's why the bigger

56:22

fund. The entire ecosystem

56:24

is maturing as you would expect it

56:26

would mature, and not

56:28

just in our portfolio companies. You

56:31

know this from broadly in the industry. There's

56:34

a bunch of things that are starting to catch

56:36

fire.

56:38

Yeah yeah, well, it's an

56:40

exciting time to be in the space.

56:42

I agree. We have lots of fireworks. The ETF

56:44

catalyst obviously the having cycle

56:47

that's coming back around

56:49

as well, But more importantly,

56:51

it's the explosion of this technology

56:53

is going to perpetuate and really more importantly

56:56

help foster a new era of

56:59

human advancement, human flourishment, et cetera,

57:01

and freedom. Hopefully, I

57:03

think with that will go ahead and sign it off unless there's

57:05

anything else that you want to add or we missed.

57:07

No, no, just awesome catching up

57:09

with your markets again. Our friendship

57:12

has come from the exact same same thing

57:14

that you see in this, in this ecosystem,

57:16

and we'd say, looking

57:19

outside in it'd say, okay,

57:20

there's

57:25

there's these fights in bitcoin and everything

57:27

else, and you don't have to

57:29

agree with everybody, but but

57:31

I and and that's and I think

57:33

a free market makes it stronger by the

57:35

debates and everything else. And so

57:38

so it's okay to be different, different and

57:40

have different views on this. But what

57:42

but what you see in this is the really

57:44

important things are

57:47

aligned. And that's why, why why

57:50

Again, you can create a

57:52

type of people that you meet in this you just

57:54

you know they're going to be lifelong friends.

57:58

Jeff, so good, So good. I love that,

58:01

look forward to catching up with you sometime soon.

58:04

But that was signed off. I'm gonna put in the show notes down below.

58:06

Of course, we'll link to Ego Death, your book

58:08

as well anything else that people should be paying attention

58:11

to.

58:13

One quick thing, Jeff Booth dot ca

58:15

is my website. And the only reason I say that

58:17

is if you're going to follow me on social

58:19

media. Make sure the social media

58:22

that I'm on is on that website, because

58:24

there's just too many fake accounts.

58:26

Yeah, all right, all right, Jeff, thanks so much, Thanks

58:28

buddy,