0:01

All right, Andy Sheckman, President,

0:03

Miles Franklin.

0:05

You're the gold guy, but you're bigger than the Gold

0:07

guy.

0:08

You talk a lot about the massive amounts

0:10

of debt that we have going on in the country, the

0:13

impact of what that debt is doing, the

0:16

impact of other nations moving to gold,

0:19

you know, the bricks nations, all that. We've done a bunch of shows together.

0:21

Anyway, Thanks for joining me, Andy.

0:23

Yeah, Mark, great to be here, buddy, Thanks for having

0:25

me. Yeah.

0:25

You're always a wealth of information and I

0:28

love your passion and energy you have on

0:30

these topics. So I

0:32

want to talk about twenty

0:35

twenty four, what you think is going

0:37

on this year, and

0:40

maybe we'll talk about, you know, how

0:42

we think we get through this year with

0:45

like three big critical events that

0:47

I see that we're dealing with. One,

0:50

the massive amounts of debt, not just

0:52

the United States has, but basically every

0:54

nation has, I mean unsustainable debt.

0:57

But then we have in the United States,

0:59

we have a year and that's sure

1:01

to cause some fireworks and volatility.

1:04

And then we have.

1:05

The looming threat of war, and we

1:07

have war. It's not a threat of war, we have war, but

1:10

potentially escalating. So

1:12

those kind of I kind of want to walk through that framework.

1:14

But you know, you're you're the gold

1:16

guy. But like I said, not just goal, but you know, bricks

1:18

and currencies and all of that.

1:21

Okay, So let's start real quick by just

1:23

sort.

1:23

Of recapping twenty twenty three and

1:26

what happened in twenty twenty three. I know there was a lot

1:28

of talk about the Bricks launching a new currency

1:30

in August, the death of the dollar,

1:33

all of these things. So let's talk about twenty

1:35

twenty three and how it shaped up versus kind

1:37

of what you thought or how we got through that.

1:40

Sure, Well, you know, look, James

1:43

Ricords is someone I respect an awful

1:45

lot, and I had the good

1:47

fortune of actually spending a little bit of time

1:49

with him before the August

1:51

meeting, chatting with him about his

1:54

theories, and I agree with everything he said.

1:56

I think the mistake he made was picking

2:00

time saying that the Johannesburg

2:02

meeting in August of last

2:04

year, where the Bricks had

2:06

their meeting, would

2:09

bring about not only a

2:11

unified currency, a settlement currency

2:14

backed by commodities. As we've been told

2:16

by the Russian Finance minister over and over

2:18

and over again, will happen. But he also

2:20

said something that I've been saying for over three years,

2:23

and that is that we will see a unification

2:25

of the Shanghai Cooperation Organization

2:28

and the Eurasian Economic Union with the Bricks.

2:30

They're in essence the same countries and

2:33

aligned very much the same, and

2:35

I believe that will happen. In fact, right

2:37

before the end of the year, the President of Belarus

2:41

called for this. He said, we need to get these

2:43

groups together. We all have the same

2:45

interests. And even though the

2:48

Bricks did not come out and issue

2:51

this unified currency, it

2:54

doesn't matter to me. In fact, what they said was

2:56

let's have the finance ministers go

2:59

back to the drawing board and present their

3:01

findings. In the twenty twenty four meeting

3:04

in Russia, one of two hundred

3:06

Bricks meetings that we will see over

3:08

the course of twenty twenty four in

3:11

Russia, but we did see

3:13

five countries formally apply

3:16

and formally be accepted. Six

3:19

applied, five were accepted,

3:21

or I guess we could say. Argentina

3:24

was asked to join and they were going

3:26

to but the new administration

3:28

declined. So we saw Egypt in Iran

3:31

and the United Arab Emirates and Saudi Arabia

3:33

and Ethiopia, and these are big. These

3:35

are very big. Of course, with UAE

3:38

and with Saudi Arabia that's as

3:40

big as it gets. With Ethiopia the fastest

3:43

growing economy in Africa, very

3:45

very resource rich, Egypt

3:47

with its strategic shipping lines, the Straits

3:49

of Hormuz and the Red Sea,

3:52

and of course you

3:54

know, if

3:56

we look at this coalestion

4:00

in terms of its significance

4:02

with energy, I think it is huge.

4:04

And when we talk a little bit about what's

4:06

happened so far this year, I'll talk to you about what the

4:08

United Arab Emirates did. And I think it's the biggest

4:10

shot across the bow. But

4:13

it's big, and I don't think the fact that these

4:15

things didn't happen immediately

4:19

is a big deal. In fact, I think it adds credibility

4:21

to the Bricks. I think the people in the West think

4:23

that instant gratification is not fast enough.

4:26

And if anything, look, this has

4:28

been a seventeen year deal with the Bricks.

4:31

This hasn't just come out of nowhere, and they're doing

4:33

things methodically, and they are

4:35

doing things I believe well

4:37

thought out, and I think This plays

4:40

into Brett Johnson's milkshake

4:42

theory, which I agree with. The dollar is still

4:44

the strongest currency. Until it's

4:46

not. This will be death by a thousand

4:49

cuts, little by little, by little by little. I call

4:51

it logarithmic decay, little by little,

4:53

by little, by little by little. Bang. At some point

4:55

we see things shift. And it wasn't

4:57

in twenty twenty three, and it may or may not be

4:59

in twenty twenty four. But what I do see

5:02

is a growing legitimacy to

5:04

where now we've seen thirty countries

5:07

thirty formally apply to this growing

5:10

legitimacy, this growing union of countries

5:13

pushing back against the West. So as

5:15

far as bricks are concerned, Mark, I think that

5:17

twenty twenty three was a big

5:19

year. I think twenty twenty four will be a bigger

5:21

year. But all I can tell you is that in my mind,

5:24

I believe at some point we see that all

5:26

at once moment, when enough

5:29

countries have joined together in the crypto

5:31

space, I guess you would call it mass adoption.

5:33

And I don't think we've seen mass adoption yet. But you

5:36

add thirty more countries to now ten,

5:38

with another twenty that have informally applied.

5:41

We're beginning to get to that mass adoption

5:44

moment in GDP and military might

5:46

and oil and gas production and

5:48

all energy production and critical resources,

5:51

everything, human population, you name it.

5:54

And at that point, I think it becomes

5:56

not only more likely, but much more

5:58

credible that we see something like

6:00

that happen.

6:01

Yeah.

6:01

I like what you said about the death by a thousand cuts.

6:04

I think that's certainly kind

6:07

of where we're at. And I

6:09

like to say, and I typically say, all

6:11

this is a process.

6:12

Not an event.

6:13

And to your point about people looking

6:15

for instant gratification. You know, when the dollar took

6:17

over the reserve standard from the sterling one

6:20

hundred years ago, I mean that was about a forty

6:22

year. Process just doesn't happen

6:24

over It doesn't happen in a couple of years. It doesn't happen a decade.

6:26

It's multiple decades. And so the

6:28

thousand cuts is sort of that process that we're

6:31

seeing. We do know that we've seen

6:33

nations. I mean, if you follow Luke Grammin's work, which

6:35

I'm sure you do, and I've had them on the show several times,

6:38

we do see that they have been

6:40

using less US treasuries and they've been moving to

6:42

gold as a reserve for example,

6:45

so not as a medium of exchange, but

6:47

certainly as a store of value, reserve asset.

6:50

Well, let me comment on that real quick, and I'm glad

6:52

you brought that up. I'm a big fan of Lukey's one smart

6:54

guy for sure. You know, you

6:57

look at gold since the beginning of two

6:59

thousand, you know, go all the way

7:01

back, and you see the SNP appreciate

7:04

by seven percent per year. You

7:06

see gold appreciate on average

7:09

by seven point eight percent per

7:11

year, and it's really in terms of its percentage,

7:13

it's destroyed the bond market. And if you

7:15

look just over the last few

7:17

years in terms of what

7:19

we've seen in gold's appreciation. In

7:22

twenty twenty, the price of gold, let me give

7:24

you the exact number here in twenty

7:26

twenty, the price of gold on average

7:31

was Bear with me one second.

7:33

Here we go seventeen seventy three in

7:35

twenty that's twenty twenty, excuse me, twenty

7:38

twenty one, seventeen ninety eight average price,

7:40

twenty twenty two, eighteen oh one, twenty

7:43

twenty three, nineteen forty three. So

7:46

you go all the way back to the beginning of the century,

7:48

with the exception perhaps of a gain in bitcoin.

7:50

I know, I know you have strong feelings

7:53

about bitcoin, and I don't have

7:55

any negative feelings about bitcoin whatsoever.

7:57

But just speaking in terms of traditional

8:00

assets, gold has been the tortoise,

8:02

not the hair. And when you think about it

8:04

in terms of using

8:08

gold to replace the function of

8:10

treasuries, look, I think what gold

8:12

offers is trust, and

8:15

it's transparent trust. Whereas you could

8:18

argue with what's been

8:20

going on with the US,

8:22

we are beginning, perhaps in some people's

8:24

eyes, to lack a little bit of trust.

8:26

When we look at the bond market, they

8:29

said in twenty twenty three that gold it was

8:31

the first time in forty five years that

8:34

gold had less volatility than the ten year

8:36

treasury. So I think

8:38

it's completely logical for

8:41

countries to shed treasuries which

8:43

have volatility issued

8:45

by a country that perhaps is lacking a little

8:47

bit of trust and appears to be choosing inflation

8:50

over austerity. I

8:53

truly do believe that that is a growing trend.

8:55

You will see countries like China, like

8:57

Saudi Arabia, like all these countries that are shedding

8:59

treasuries and look at the numbers.

9:01

Twenty twenty three was the and twenty

9:03

twenty two both biggest years

9:05

ever one after the other central

9:08

bank purchasing in history. So yeah, it appears.

9:10

I think Loop's right. I think they are selling

9:13

treasury slowly and accumulating

9:15

gold as a form of

9:18

a substitute, if you will, for a treasury and go

9:20

back to the beginning of the century. And it

9:23

really does really kind

9:25

of fit that bill in terms of safe,

9:27

secure, no counter party risk,

9:29

and watching it appreciated a slow,

9:32

steady growth. I think the concept

9:35

of using a government

9:37

or a foreign government's debt

9:39

as an asset from a historical context

9:42

as but a very brief history. Gold

9:44

not so brief, and I think we're kind of going full

9:46

circle.

9:47

Yeah, it's almost ridiculous when you think about that, using

9:50

another country's debt as a

9:52

reserve asset, if you will. And so

9:54

this is what I see as a bigger

9:56

shift going on, right, And I'm sure you would agree. And

9:58

this is what Luke points to a neutral

10:01

reserve asset. I mean, that's basically what you're just saying,

10:03

right, It's like a neutral reserve asset. And

10:05

so a lot of people say that, you know, you

10:07

can't replace the dollar. That would definitely be Brent Johnson's

10:10

argument, and I'm going to have him on later to to make

10:12

that case. You can't just replace

10:15

the dollar, you know, the swift system, the correspondent

10:17

banks, the deep bond market, et cetera, et cetera.

10:20

You can't.

10:20

And they're absolutely right. And Russia

10:22

isn't going to replace the bond market. China's not going to replace

10:25

the US bond market. But

10:27

gold is eating.

10:28

Away at that.

10:30

And I think this illustrates a

10:32

much bigger shift the one that I hit on all the

10:34

time, which is the sort of this decentralized revolution,

10:36

sort of the pendulum swinging back from sixty

10:39

eighty years of centralization

10:41

and now going back to decentralization. So the days

10:45

of the dollar homogeny are sort of over,

10:47

and now each nation not wanting to

10:49

trust each other, the.

10:52

Bricks nations, you know.

10:53

As far as the currency, or specifically

10:56

a reserve asset, I'm not so sure about that because I think that

10:58

trust is gone, which is why that neutral

11:00

reserve asset, like a gold reserve asset, sort

11:02

of makes sense.

11:04

Well, my take on that has always been,

11:07

you know, people say that trust and

11:09

I wonder I look at what's happening in this

11:11

country, and I say, are we really trusted

11:13

anymore? I mean we trusted the way we

11:15

really once were. Is this the country

11:17

that you and I when we were kids in the seventies

11:19

and eighties? Is this really the country we grew up

11:21

in? I would say, no respect for

11:24

authority, all of that stuff, the

11:26

open borders, the you know, blindfolded

11:28

lady liberty holding the scales of justice. And

11:30

I don't care what side of the aisle you're on, can

11:32

you argue that the current and the previous administrations

11:35

have been treated equally? All of these

11:37

things that made this country great, religion,

11:40

nuclear family, you know, all of these

11:43

things seem to be questioned right

11:45

now. And I would say to

11:47

you that the way that this works go back to what Zoltan

11:50

Posar has been saying. Breton Woods three.

11:53

I think we've talked about this briefly. Where Bretton

11:55

Woods won at the end of World War Two.

11:57

As you just mentioned, we took over for the pound sterling

12:00

the loose Bretton Woods too, and when

12:02

we closed the gold window and then became the petro

12:04

dollar, and now a system that

12:06

will be, according to Zoltan backed

12:10

or described or predicated on

12:12

commodities and transparency. And this is

12:14

the marriage of blockchain technology

12:17

and commodities, and I think that's what the Russian finance

12:19

minister is getting at. And I agree,

12:22

you don't need to replace the reserve

12:24

status of the dollar to massively chip

12:26

chip chip chip chip, chip away at

12:28

the settlement status of the dollar.

12:31

And I think Jim was very careful in his

12:33

words that would be Jim Ricords when he said

12:36

settlement common settlement currency.

12:38

But you continue to chip away at the settlement

12:40

status of the dollar, at what point

12:43

does it begin to dramatically

12:45

affect the reserve status of the

12:47

dollar and the bond market and interest

12:49

rates and that unintended or maybe the

12:51

intended corollary consequences,

12:54

And this is where gold comes in, or

12:56

bitcoin, something that would act

12:59

for these countries as an

13:02

asset that doesn't carry US counterparty

13:05

liability, that would allow

13:07

them to take their excess cash and

13:10

put it into something that would not only

13:12

preserve its purchasing power, but potentially

13:14

grow its purchasing power

13:16

and in fact remove counterparty liability,

13:19

whether it be US default liability,

13:22

US inflation liability, or just the

13:24

risk of rates going higher in this system

13:27

where less and less and less settlement

13:30

is being done in dollars, and all of those

13:32

dollars slashing around make their way

13:34

home, creating more and more and more inflation,

13:36

which leads to higher rates. And this is just

13:38

a vicious circle. But I agree,

13:40

and I want people to know. I mean, a lot of people would

13:42

say Brett and I are on the opposite side of the table.

13:44

In some respects, we are, but in

13:47

most respects we're not. Because I agree

13:49

his premise is very logical.

13:52

But there is coming an inflection point.

13:54

And I think the world looks at

13:56

the dollar, the world looks at our

13:58

policies. I mean, right now, you got the Speaker

14:01

of the House and the Senate

14:03

talking about and the Biden administration

14:05

backing not just the sanctioning

14:08

of the Russian assets like we did with Iran,

14:11

and we start giving them back their sanctioned

14:13

assets, but now confiscating

14:15

them and using them to fund the war

14:18

in Ukraine because the Congress

14:20

doesn't want to give appropriations to more

14:22

Ukraine funding. You cross that line

14:25

of not just sanctioning under

14:27

the guise of law, but actually

14:31

confiscating and using against that country.

14:33

And now the whole world looks

14:35

at the trust. Really,

14:38

where's the trust? And I think the world

14:40

looks at the US very differently in that

14:42

respect. Again, the rule of

14:44

law is the rule of law what it once

14:47

was. Is Lady Liberty really blind

14:49

or is she peeking out one eye? I don't

14:51

know, but I think the rest of the world could look

14:53

at things that way, Mark, And so

14:56

I think ultimately the

14:58

settlement status of the dollar will

15:00

ultimately lead to the

15:03

lack of use of the reserve

15:05

status of the US bond market. And that, to me

15:08

is where things start to get a little bit murky.

15:10

And maybe that's what the role that gold will

15:12

ultimately play in

15:14

this new growing union of countries.

15:16

But until then, Brent's right, until then, the

15:19

dollar is still the king. But

15:21

you know one other thing I'd like to say, and you look

15:23

at the lead economic advisor to

15:25

the United States government, it's interesting

15:27

a man named Jared Bernstein. His whole thesis

15:29

is removal of the world reserve currency, and his

15:32

report dethrone king Dollar.

15:34

So you look at the moves we've made around the globe

15:36

and you have to ask yourself, I mean, was

15:38

this intended? Could it or could it just be too

15:41

stupid to be stupid. I don't know, but

15:43

I do think in general the

15:46

reserve status of the dollar will start

15:49

to wane in the face of more

15:51

and more and more settlement outside the dollar.

15:55

I think it's both.

15:56

I think it's some intentional and some stupidity.

15:58

It's probably a common both. And what i'd

16:00

say back to the dollar is still king dollar,

16:03

king of what, king of currencies?

16:05

Sure, king of fiat currencies. Uh,

16:08

but the king US dollars.

16:10

So we've seen, you know, I think it was

16:13

Lebanon was the worst performing currency to the dollar.

16:15

Maybe, I don't know.

16:17

Argent Jennezuela's probably good, Venezuela.

16:20

Argentina, they're all they're all

16:22

competing, right, but they've all lost,

16:24

you know, big to the US dollar.

16:26

But the US dollars lost big too.

16:28

The US dollars down sixty five percent

16:31

to media and US real estate, it's down about

16:33

seventy percent to the S and P five hundred, just

16:35

down about one hundred and seventy percent to bitcoin. It's

16:37

down, right, it's down to everything as well. So it's

16:39

king of what, it's king of fiat currency's

16:41

okay, but they're all sinking, right. It's the it's

16:43

the slowest sinking ship, if you will. Gold

16:48

Uh, you know, is sort of back

16:51

up to its previous all time high, but

16:53

when you adjusted for inflation, it's

16:55

actually nowhere, not well,

16:57

I don't want to say nowhere, but it's certainly not act

17:00

to it's all time high. So you have to kind of take that

17:02

into consideration. But let's just jump

17:04

gears a little bit. So let's if we're looking forward

17:06

to twenty twenty four. As

17:08

I said, there's these three critical events that I see that

17:11

I think that are driving markets. So one

17:13

is this massive amount of debt that's sort

17:15

of forcing the hand of governments. Then

17:18

we have the election year, and then potentially

17:20

war. So let's talk through each of those. I know

17:22

you've talked a lot about the debt, the amount of debt that

17:24

the US government has and the assets they

17:26

have to back this up, but the

17:29

debt sort of puts the government in this rock

17:31

in a hard place. The government is overspending,

17:34

so that means they need more debt. The deficit

17:36

spending is growing. How do

17:38

you think that affects this year

17:40

twenty twenty four and even maybe into twenty twenty five.

17:43

Do you think that this massive amount of debt at

17:45

some point is going to blow everything up. I think we'd both

17:47

agree on that. At some point you just can't sustain that anymore.

17:50

I don't think that happens this

17:52

year, but I think to

17:54

me it means that they're going to continue spending

17:57

in deficit, which means the markets will and

18:00

will probably keep humming along in an inflationary

18:02

type environment. But what's your take on that? What do

18:04

you think the debt?

18:05

That's what I mean. Yeah,

18:07

I'm sorry, I'm sorry to interrupt you there. Yeah, but that's

18:11

yes. I agree with everything you just said.

18:13

I really do. And look

18:16

in terms of the debt, let's just first

18:18

quantify it. Most people mark

18:21

nowadays. I don't think it's unrealistic

18:24

for people to expect to make a million dollars

18:27

in their lifetime. Most of us will if

18:29

you work long enough. And

18:31

we see all sorts of billionaires around us,

18:34

So you know, the number

18:37

trillion sounds a lot like a million and a

18:39

billion and can't be that big. But let's just first

18:42

baseline it and say, for definition

18:44

purposes, a trillion seconds ago

18:46

was thirty one, six and eighty eight

18:48

years ago. That's first and foremost. Who

18:50

got Neanderthals walking

18:52

around the planes of Europe a

18:54

trillion seconds ago. That's one trillion

18:57

seconds ago. And it took I

18:59

don't know, like hundred and thirty years

19:01

to accumulate our first two trillion

19:03

dollars in debt. Yet if you go back

19:05

to January one of twenty

19:07

twenty three, we are at

19:10

thirty one point four trillion dollar debt,

19:12

and you go to January

19:14

one of

19:16

this year and we're at thirty four

19:19

trillion plus. We've grown by two

19:21

point six trillion dollars. Over the course of

19:23

the twenty twenty three calendar year, we

19:25

saw nine hundred billion dollars

19:28

in gross interest payments. And I

19:30

think this is the point where I

19:33

think we start to bring the milkshake

19:36

theory or the dollar bowl theory

19:38

into focus. And it is simply this. The

19:40

Congressional Budget Office tells us

19:42

by their own estimation, and they're always

19:45

wrong. They're going to be way way more

19:49

I think, lenient on the facts then

19:51

we could really expect to see. But they're

19:53

telling us by their own admission that

19:56

by twenty thirty one, in seven years,

20:00

one hundred percent of all tax revenue

20:02

will go just to pay the interest on the debt and

20:05

a mandatory entitlement spending like Social

20:08

Security. Now social Security is off

20:10

balance sheet, it's about seventy trillion

20:12

in the whole seventy trillion, and

20:14

you add in Medicare and Medicaid and government

20:17

military pensions, we're about one hundred and thirty hundred

20:19

and forty trillions so or but somewhere

20:21

between one hundred and fifty and two hundred trillion

20:23

dollars in debt. But ask yourself,

20:25

is how is it that we can expect

20:28

to be the dominant financial and military

20:30

power in the world when in less than seven years,

20:33

one hundred percent of all discretionary

20:35

spending, which includes military, will need

20:37

to be borrowed. Why would anyone want to borrow

20:40

us money? A country that will inflate

20:42

will choose inflation. And I think that's

20:44

becoming obvious because of all

20:46

of the obligations we have, both on balance

20:48

sheet and off who the hell's going to pay for them? Let alone

20:50

the ten million people who who have just walked

20:53

into this country, mostly illegally. Who's

20:55

going to pay for their schooling and their housing and their medical

20:57

and what's going to happen to the wages of the American

21:00

paying tax paying Americans

21:02

who are these low income jobs that are now going

21:04

to be much lower pay offer

21:07

salaries because you have all these immigrants

21:09

looking for work. The whole situation is

21:11

getting worse and worse, meaning

21:13

the entitlements will go higher and hire, the obligations

21:16

higher and hire. And how the hell do we pay for it?

21:19

How do we pay for ten trillion dollars in bonds

21:21

that come do this year? I got an idea,

21:23

Let's borrow some more money.

21:25

So the point of it is is.

21:27

That we're debt, we're insolvent,

21:29

we're broke, we're insolvent, and we're

21:32

right there at one hundred and thirty percent debt

21:34

to GDP, real damn close to it. And

21:36

in all of history, there's never been a country

21:38

cross that line that didn't come back or

21:40

never came back at There has never been a

21:42

country to come back without defaulting

21:45

or hyperinflating. So I guess I would

21:47

say that debt is a very very very

21:49

big problem that won't go away. In fact,

21:52

it's only going to get worse. And when you talk about

21:54

you know, the FED pivoting because it's an

21:56

election year, well, I mean here

21:58

again, they're just signaling that they're going to do

22:00

at all governments have done, and that

22:03

is to try and get reelected

22:05

and choose inflation over austerity over

22:07

the tough choices. And we're

22:09

a government, we have a government addicted to

22:11

spending. And unless

22:13

we pay much higher taxes and go through

22:16

a world of much less government spending,

22:19

which comes with much more pain, both

22:21

areas ain't gonna change. And I

22:23

don't think it does change.

22:25

So then in regards to the debt,

22:28

and you're thinking your base case

22:30

is that lots more of it's

22:32

coming. The government is going to choose

22:35

to print over going to a budget in austerity

22:37

cutting back, and eventually

22:39

it will blow up, but probably not in twenty twenty

22:41

four.

22:42

Yeah, I think eventually it has to. I mean,

22:45

mathematically, at what point does the rest

22:47

of the world see it, Who with their right mind

22:49

would loan us money at any level of duration?

22:52

I mean, I mean, I think you got to be out of your

22:54

mind to do that. So, especially when you look at

22:56

the way that we gauge inflation and

22:58

the metrics by which we even get age on employment,

23:01

they just revise the twenty twenty three numbers

23:03

down by four hundred and forty thousand jobs sorry,

23:05

we're off by forty percent, but we'll tell you

23:07

that the year after. So the point

23:09

is is that we're being lied to by the Fed constantly,

23:12

and I think the world is beginning to lose trust

23:14

in us, in the metrics, in our

23:16

management of the currency and our decisions,

23:18

and the policy makers who are really

23:21

inflating away the value of

23:23

the world reserve currency. So when you talk about

23:26

selling oil or any of these goods

23:28

for a currency that is being inflated,

23:30

let's not forget that part of

23:32

the petro dollar deal as well was to

23:34

go back into US treasures. Well, how'd

23:36

that work out the last few years? Volatility

23:38

in the treasury market, inflation, And

23:41

I just think that we are, like you said,

23:43

we're between a rock and hard place with all

23:46

of the government debt right now, with all of the

23:48

personal debt, and look at

23:50

the banks that are hanging on by a thread. You

23:52

raise rates high enough, you blow up the whole system.

23:55

And they know that. So as much as they would like to

23:57

have less inflation, I think they

23:59

don't want to see the whole system blow

24:01

up, especially in an election year, so they'll

24:03

pivot, they'll do what they can, but ultimately

24:06

you have to ask yourself, who's going to buy our

24:08

bonds? And so if it falls back

24:10

on the institutional traders, I believe

24:12

that they will demand higher rates

24:15

for the risk of default, for the risk of

24:17

inflation, and for the risk of just higher rates.

24:19

And so ultimately, again all roads

24:22

lead to the same place. But yeah,

24:23

I don't think that we

24:25

will see this

24:27

won't this won't end well, And I don't I don't,

24:30

you know. I think the mistake people make is say, yeah, it's going

24:32

to be this year. Look, I think we're living on

24:34

borrowed time. Mathematically, this stuff

24:36

should have happened a long time ago. Logically, it should

24:38

have happened a long time ago. But here

24:40

we are, and I guess we'll just keep

24:42

on humming along until the wheels fall off.

24:44

Yeah.

24:46

Now let's move into the second part, the second

24:48

critical event happening.

24:50

This year, which is the election.

24:52

I think maybe only one potentially

24:55

president income and president

24:58

running for a second term during recession

25:00

has been elected. No

25:03

president returning wants to lose an election,

25:05

and certainly the Democrats in office do not

25:07

want to lose that this year, and

25:10

so you would think then, just rationally,

25:12

that then they would use every tool at their potential

25:14

disposal to make sure that does not happen,

25:17

from lying about the data to your point,

25:20

having the BLS data come out and having to revise

25:22

it a year later, from lying changing the way CPI

25:24

is calculated, to potentially pumping

25:26

money directly into the markets like we've seen in twenty twenty,

25:28

et cetera. So my thinking

25:30

is that they're going to do everything they can, including helicopter

25:33

money if they have to, to make sure this doesn't happen.

25:36

And so that's another big catalyst for this year.

25:39

What do you think about that?

25:40

Yeah, I think all of that sounds probably

25:42

pretty logical. But it feel free to disagree

25:44

with me.

25:45

I don't want to lead you into thy thing.

25:46

So no, I don't. I

25:48

don't disagree, but I guess the only place

25:50

I disagree is and I say

25:52

this with respect for the office

25:54

of the president, because one of the things that bothered

25:57

the hell out of me Mark over the last

25:59

you know, I don't know, six

26:01

years or whatever, is the lack of respect

26:04

for the office of the president. And you

26:07

know, but I'll tell you this,

26:09

this gentleman is too old, it seems,

26:11

and he seems cognitively impaired

26:14

and I think all of this is going

26:16

to amount to nothing because I think,

26:19

you know, I don't care what side of the aisle

26:21

you're on. You have to ask yourself if Biden

26:23

is the is the candidate for the Democrats,

26:26

you have to wonder, I mean, is there enough

26:28

confidence just in his ability to

26:31

run another four years? So you know, all

26:33

this stuff that they're doing, is it going to be in vain?

26:36

And I think more than anything, they've shown

26:38

their hands to to really

26:42

do things that are again chipping

26:45

away at the culture of this

26:47

country. And when you strip

26:49

someone off the ballot, I mean, the last

26:51

time that happened was Abraham Lincoln. We saw a

26:53

civil war, and I think that's the kind

26:56

of feelings. Look, there

26:58

was a report that came out recently by a small

27:00

college in Virginia that said half of about

27:02

fifty five percent of Democrats think violence

27:05

is okay

27:08

to get their results, and about

27:10

forty five Republicans said the same

27:13

thing. We are so divided, so divisive,

27:16

uh, and red and Blue can't even talk to each

27:18

other anymore. So I just think

27:20

that it's not a good situation

27:23

at all. If there is any if there is any

27:27

feeling of it being not a

27:29

fair election, and I don't

27:31

think that what they will do. I mean they're going to try.

27:34

You can see that they're going to try and keep

27:37

interest rates low, prop up the markets, make

27:39

everything seem rosy. But if you look and see

27:41

who's our president, I

27:44

wonder if it if it amounts to a whole bunch

27:47

of nothing. Now, maybe we see a new Democratic

27:49

candidate like Gavin Newsom show

27:52

up and maybe that changes things. I

27:54

don't know. But what they could they could

27:56

say. They could say, hey Democrats, they.

27:58

Could say, hey, Biden's too old, he just wants

28:00

to step down. Let's just go ahead and slide and gave and

28:02

new some whatever. But you want

28:04

to continue with this ideology

28:07

or you know, that's what I call it. But you want to continue

28:09

with this administration because we're on track. Look

28:11

how good the economy is. If you go to Trump,

28:13

he's gonna or whatever. He may not run either,

28:15

he might be in prison. But if you go to a different

28:18

ideology, if you go to the Republican Party, things can fall

28:20

apart.

28:20

So stick with us.

28:21

So either way, whether they replace Biden or not,

28:23

they're going to still want the economy to good.

28:26

I'm thinking, so my base case is,

28:28

like I said, if there's anything they can do, even

28:31

helicopter money in, they will do that.

28:34

So I just don't see that there's this big risk

28:36

of this massive recession or market crash

28:39

happening this year. If they could prevent it, and my

28:41

base cases they probably can keep

28:43

it going for a while longer. And that's

28:45

why I was just trying to get your opinion.

28:47

Yeah, no, I agree with that completely. And you know, the

28:49

thing is is that the public

28:51

is getting such unless people

28:54

are watching guys like you who

28:56

are giving real information,

29:00

actually based I think it's hard for people

29:02

to understand just how dire things maybe

29:04

are outside the country. And yeah,

29:07

everyone feels what's going on inside

29:09

the country, but you know, I just

29:12

I think that I

29:14

think that they'll be able to keep it

29:16

going, and they'll try to keep it going as

29:18

long as they can. But if people really understood

29:20

what was happening outside the country, what was happening

29:23

to the dollar and the d dollarization and all

29:25

of the things that are happening, I mean, I

29:28

wonder if it would be a different outcome. And you

29:31

know, evidently you're a threat to democracy

29:33

according to Al Gore, who says people

29:36

watching you know, the alternative media crowd

29:38

is a threat to democracy because we're

29:40

saying something different than what the mainstream

29:43

is talking about. But look, Mark, all

29:45

I can tell you is I think it's going to be an incredibly

29:48

interesting year, and the election certainly

29:50

will be the vocal point of it. And

29:52

I hope, I hope there is no perception

29:55

of this being anything but a very fair

29:58

and lawful

30:00

election. And if so, then let's see where

30:02

the chips fall.

30:04

Okay, And then the third critical event that I see

30:06

that could potentially change the outlook in markets

30:09

and economies is war.

30:11

So already we're seeing the Red Sea

30:14

starting to choke point on oil. Oil

30:16

is now having to be diverted a long way around. It's

30:18

going to increase the price of oil, although

30:20

the demand could continue to fall out to commodities that's

30:22

driven by supplying demands. So we'll see how that plays out.

30:24

But potentially, you know, war could escalate.

30:27

We have you know, obviously China, Taiwan. Now

30:30

you know somewhat historically war has been good

30:32

for the economy, good

30:35

for defense stocks.

30:38

So do you think that.

30:41

The potential war and well,

30:44

we have war, but like I said, the war escalation potentially

30:47

could that derail the markets

30:49

this year and the economy or is

30:51

your base case that it will or it won't.

30:56

Look, you know, we've been, we've been. It

30:59

seems we've been at war forever.

31:01

I don't know. I mean, God forbid we get into

31:04

to a much more escalated

31:07

war, and certainly a war with China

31:09

if they were to try to do something with Taiwan,

31:11

or you know, I wonder, you

31:13

know, I guess you could

31:15

argue maybe Iran, And what does it mean

31:17

that Iran, who's obviously

31:20

the perception is that they're backing the Hutis,

31:23

And what does it mean that they've

31:25

joined the bricks and the Shanghai Cooperation Organization,

31:27

which is the largest regional military organization

31:30

on the planet. What does it mean they're full fledged

31:32

members. I don't know. But I don't

31:34

think war is good at any time, and I

31:36

think that's part of the problem. The world is getting

31:39

tired of all of the war and maybe

31:41

the fact that it just seems

31:43

a military industrial complex is behind

31:46

so many of these wars. I don't see

31:48

it as being good for anything,

31:50

but certainly it wouldn't be good I think

31:52

for the economy or

31:54

even the stock market or the bond market. I

31:56

can't see it being good because I think

31:58

it's just an another Look,

32:01

this whole thing is like a house agenda to me,

32:03

and you keep pulling out pieces of of

32:09

American heritage, of the American

32:11

culture, and if we have

32:13

to result to war to

32:18

prop up the markets, I just think it's

32:20

a very sad state of affairs. And I'd

32:22

like to hope that we don't get embroiled in another war.

32:24

But look, you know, there's no coincidence

32:26

that you're talking about this happening

32:29

at the choke point at the Red Sea

32:31

and the Suez Canal. But

32:33

what people don't understand is that, look,

32:36

you could argue when you talk about the countries

32:39

that have just joined the Bricks, you've got

32:41

the Suez Canal and the Red Sea surrounded.

32:45

But this falls right into the hands of the Bricks and

32:47

Russia with their brand new They've

32:50

got this Northern Sea route which goes

32:52

right up through the

32:55

space where everyone else has to go around the Cape

32:57

of Good Hope. And so you

32:59

know, and now you have the Bricks

33:01

Naval Alliance that will be patrolling the Red Sea.

33:03

And I think that this

33:06

is a lot bigger than people think and certainly,

33:08

if I had to guess, just like

33:10

we went to war in Iraq looking

33:12

for weapons of mass destruction twenty years

33:14

ago, we're still occupying their country.

33:18

This is a critical choke point for oil

33:21

and for trade. So I would

33:23

say there's probably a fairly good probability

33:26

that we get into something deeper here

33:30

in this spot right in the Yemen area

33:33

with the hooties. And I don't

33:35

know what it does to the economy, but I think it has

33:37

a lot to do with the price of oil and our

33:40

influence in that region. But actually

33:42

I think it actually plays right into the hands

33:44

of the Bricks and all

33:47

of their new roots and the Belt Road Initiative,

33:50

all of these new roots that kind

33:52

of circumvent traditional roots that are patrolled

33:54

by the US Navy, and whether it be

33:57

this Northern Sea Route or the North South

34:00

Corridor that goes from Iran to

34:03

India, and you know, permission

34:06

based transport.

34:08

When you look at the Belt Road Initiative,

34:11

this massive infrastructure program, it will

34:13

be patrolled solely by military and commerce.

34:15

So this is just more of the same. It's

34:18

and there's no coincidence that the countries that have

34:21

first applied or first been accepted. Not

34:23

only are they energy rich, but they're

34:25

also in very important choke

34:27

points in terms of of

34:30

global commerce, and this is one of them. So

34:32

if I had to guess yes, I would

34:34

think we'll see an escalation in Yemen.

34:36

And I don't

34:38

know what it does for the economy. I just think it adds

34:41

that much more resentment

34:44

to the United States. Ultimately, not a good thing.

34:47

Okay, let's

34:50

see, so three

34:54

critical things definitely need to keep our eye

34:56

on. They're

34:58

all potential. I don't want to all them black swans

35:00

because we see them. They're all potential gray swans, but

35:02

they could greatly change the outcome

35:05

of this. The one thing I would just say, I

35:07

want to pivot into some questions that I had the

35:09

audience had submitted ahead of time.

35:12

But I would say Gerald

35:15

Soilente, who have had on my show me several times, he always

35:17

says that when all those spells, they take you to war,

35:19

and that's from the debt standpoint,

35:21

but also from the political standpoint as well. And

35:24

so when the country is very divided, I

35:26

think a lot of times they hope that war could then

35:29

somehow bring people back together. I

35:32

don't think that worked so well. On Israel

35:34

for bebe over there. But

35:37

you know, potentially, if there's a war going on,

35:39

I'm sorry, you know, in this election that could be a

35:41

tight election. Potentially they could use war as

35:44

a way to do that. But we'll

35:46

see where that goes. So

35:49

so we've sort of framed this up, I

35:51

think pretty well. I want to get to

35:54

some questions that I have, Like I said here from

35:56

the audience, I

35:58

kind of I threw them out to the list and they presubmitted

36:01

him.

36:01

So I have one here, Free

36:04

Skate is the name.

36:06

Here.

36:07

Let's see what they're saying.

36:08

So they said, well, they

36:10

want to know if you have any

36:13

predictions of where you think the price of gold

36:15

will go over the next year.

36:21

When I started in this industry, mark the Dow

36:23

Jones was twenty one hundred and the Knik

36:26

was nearly forty thousand, and

36:29

Japanese owned Rockefeller Center and Pebble

36:31

Beach and casinos in Vegas and ski resorts

36:34

in Colorado. And they made they

36:36

made better motherboards and

36:38

engines and anyone in the world. They were taken over

36:40

the world. And here we are thirty years

36:43

later, where the Dow Jones has gone from twenty one

36:45

hundred to over what thirty six seven, thirty

36:47

eight thousand, and the knik has

36:50

at one point was down seventy five percent

36:52

and it's never gotten back to where it was when I

36:54

started in this industry thirty three years ago.

36:56

The one thing I have learned

36:59

is that markets go higher than anyone

37:02

thinks possible, and bear markets will

37:04

fall further than anyone ever

37:06

thinks possible. And that's a very,

37:08

very I think, the only absolute

37:11

that I can give you. But I will tell you

37:13

this that when you see the most well informed,

37:15

forget about the most well funded, that being

37:18

the central banks, but the most well informed

37:20

traders on the globe accumulating what

37:23

the Bank of International Settlements called a

37:25

Tier one reserve asset, the only one

37:27

next to dollars and treasuries, Ultimately

37:29

the price goes higher than people will

37:32

ever imagine. And that's the one thing I learned

37:34

is that bull markets go higher than people think,

37:36

and bear markets go fall further than

37:38

people think. I think gold will ultimately

37:41

go higher than anyone can imagine, and it will

37:43

be pegged at some new system, a marriage

37:45

to blockchain, a backing of the system

37:48

giving it credibility, because who

37:50

trusts China and Russia who trusts us? Well,

37:52

how about a trustless system?

37:54

And I think that's what it will ultimately

37:57

come back to. And why else would the

37:59

BIS re class by gold is Tier one

38:01

and not something else like special drawing

38:03

rights from the IMF or whatever. Heck,

38:06

even Kristallina Georgieva, the

38:08

head of the IMF, said, if you don't peg a central

38:10

bank digital currency to something, then

38:12

it's just fiat. And when you see

38:15

the massive acquisition by the most

38:17

well informed traders on the globe, it

38:19

tells me that gold will have its day. Now. Is

38:21

it going to be twenty twenty four, maybe

38:23

twenty twenty five, don't know, but just

38:25

look at what we've seen. It's average seven

38:28

point eight percent per year for the last

38:30

twenty four years and

38:32

had a really nice run last year. Up I

38:34

don't know, ten twelve percent,

38:37

so I don't know. I think anyone

38:39

who picks the number would be just guessing. But it will continue

38:41

to move higher and ultimately we'll go much higher.

38:44

Don't know if it's this year or not. A lot going

38:46

on this year, but I still feel

38:48

comfortable saying that I would expect it to

38:50

finish this year much higher. Than it

38:52

did last year. Don't know what

38:54

that number is.

38:55

Yeah, and just for me to add some color onto that,

38:57

I mean, the previous high set to eleven

39:00

when adjusted for inflation, which

39:02

is a fake number as well, but based off

39:04

of what we've been told is about almost

39:07

about twenty five hundred and twenty four to seventy two is

39:09

the official number.

39:11

It'd be much higer than that.

39:12

So we'd have to really Bitcoin has not

39:14

hit that a new all time high when a just

39:16

a for intiflation. We have to get back up above twenty five hundred

39:18

to really get to that number again

39:21

based off the government number, which

39:23

is totally doable. Steve Forbes has made a public

39:25

call to be twenty five hundred, and

39:27

then you got the Jim Records saying that, hey, it could be thirty

39:29

forty fifty thousand if governments

39:32

decided to sort of go back to some sort of gold

39:34

standard side and how they went.

39:35

Well, you know it's interesting too. All

39:37

of the central banks, the name

39:39

of the account for all of these

39:41

years that gold is held in is called the Gold

39:44

Reevaluation Account. I don't

39:46

know why they named it that, but it's kind of interesting when

39:48

you think of it. And then look at what the Dutch

39:50

National Bank, the head of the Dutch National Bank

39:52

said, and others who said, yeah, you know, this

39:54

is a solution to the problem of our debt. We just

39:57

revalue gold to a much higher level and

39:59

then our ass thats are worth more than our

40:01

debt and our balance sheet's fixed, just like that.

40:03

That's not so crazy to think, because that's

40:05

what he did. That's what he did back

40:08

in nineteen oh

40:10

seven or thirty three, rather when he confiscated

40:12

gold and then devalued the dollar by

40:14

forty percent, making gold worth forty percent

40:16

more. Is it that crazy to think that

40:18

could happen. No, I don't think it is, but

40:21

just food for thought.

40:22

Yeah, all right.

40:23

I got another question here from Danny's

40:26

world, and he is saying.

40:32

Is silver dead? The

40:34

question is that because silver.

40:36

Was demonetized and

40:39

is no longer being used or being

40:41

acquired by central banks, is silver dead?

40:44

That's not true. I mean, the Bank

40:46

of India in the past two years has purchased almost

40:48

four hundred million ounces, three hundred

40:51

and four million last year and at least eighty million

40:53

this year that they that we know of. China

40:56

has purchased a bunch of silver. I

40:58

don't know sixty eight million announces silver

41:02

is being accumulated. It just doesn't have the

41:04

reporting that gold

41:06

does. You know, it's an interesting

41:08

thing when you look at silver, and

41:11

I think it's it's very fair to say that I

41:13

believe anyway that it is suppressed. Now there's

41:16

interesting. There's an article that

41:18

I think people should look at, and it's

41:20

by the Pickaxe talking about the amazing

41:23

amount of silver that is needed in all of these

41:25

high tech weaponry systems. There's five

41:27

hundred ounces in the tip of a Tomahawk cruise missile.

41:30

There's much more than that in things

41:32

like ICBMs. But it's needed in aerospace,

41:35

it's needed in submarines. And it's interesting

41:37

and he cites all sorts of fact. And

41:39

yet when you look at the Silver Institute number

41:42

that will show another two hundred million ounce or

41:44

plus in deficit versus

41:47

supply. They don't even

41:49

count military in it. You

41:51

have an asset that is depleting in nature.

41:54

It's found in nature in a form called

41:56

epithermal, like your skin is epidermis.

41:58

It's very near the surface. And no, my

42:00

buddy Keith Numeier will be the first to tell you it's

42:02

coming out of the ground right now, it's seven to one.

42:05

Yet it's priced at about eighty two or three to

42:07

one. Something's wrong there. And

42:09

I think country like India and China

42:12

and all the countries that are accumulating it the

42:14

way that they are so the central banks are

42:16

buying it quietly tells

42:20

a different story. And when you

42:22

look at an asset that has experienced monetary

42:24

renaissance, that is used increasingly

42:27

in greed and digital applications, is

42:29

decreasing in nature, is

42:32

coming out of the ground at a ratio about eleven

42:34

times under its price ratio. Right now,

42:36

it's averaged roughly forty two to

42:38

one gold to silver ratio for the last one hundred and fifty

42:41

years, largely because of gold's

42:43

role is money. But the geologic

42:45

ratio for five thousand years before that was

42:47

sixteen to one. Now it's seven to one. It's

42:50

disappearing. You have an asset that

42:52

is increasing in demand and decreasing in supply,

42:54

and ask yourself, why the hell do you have four or five commercial

42:57

banks with the largest short position concentrated

43:00

short position of any commodity traded

43:03

on COMEX. Why And

43:05

I will simply tell you that I think silver

43:08

is in my mind. Look,

43:10

I don't sell gold and silver as investments.

43:13

To me, their wealth, and I want that to be very clear.

43:15

Wealth that has lived for five

43:17

thousand years, through two World wars, German hyperinflation,

43:20

great depression, everything the world's thrown

43:22

at it, every pandemic, you name it. But

43:26

I do think that silver should be characterized

43:28

as a strategic metal, non at industrial

43:31

and by suppressing the paper price where

43:33

right now in the registered category

43:36

on COMEX, those are the bars backing

43:39

the contracts that are issued. It's the same

43:41

thing the Hunt Brothers saw in nineteen eighty. There's over

43:44

fifteen hundred percent more

43:46

paper than there are bars standing

43:48

behind it. They're suppressing the price.

43:51

But for why and why are the commercial

43:53

banks doing this? And I would

43:55

simply tell you that to me, it is the buying opportunity

43:57

or the value of a generation. And

44:00

I'm dead serious about that. I think it is

44:02

the value of a generation. But yes, it

44:04

is underperformed, it is counterintuitive,

44:06

it is frustrating as hell. Does

44:09

not change the reality in my mind

44:11

that it is an asset that is needed in

44:13

so many areas, and there's

44:16

a lot of tom

44:19

foolery. I guess you could say surrounding

44:22

the price of silver

44:24

at least on the exchanges. But my

44:27

mind has always been that, look, here's

44:30

food for thought. On the

44:32

last day, on December twenty seventh,

44:35

let me give you the exact number here on December

44:37

twenty seventh, U, I

44:40

want to give you the exact number because it's important.

44:43

On December twenty seventh, twenty

44:45

twenty three gold

44:47

or silver closed on the Shanghai

44:50

Gold Exchange AT. I

44:53

got this somewhere. One

44:56

second shouldn't take but a second

45:00

it closed on the Shanghai Goal

45:03

Exchange AT. I want to say,

45:05

I can't find it. Twenty six dollars

45:08

and fifty

45:10

cents closed in

45:13

the United States at around twenty

45:16

four the numbers, I can't find

45:18

it, but I had it here somewhere. The numbers

45:21

on the Shanghai Goal Exchange the

45:24

last day of the year were

45:26

two dollars and thirty or forty cents

45:28

higher announced ten percent higher in

45:30

Shanghai than it was on

45:33

the LBMA or on COMEX. Goal is averaged

45:35

between six and ten percent higher in

45:37

Shanghai than on the

45:40

LBMA or on COMEX. And

45:42

I believe you are slowly seeing the arbitrage

45:45

turned up, and they are. They're

45:47

incentivizing the Western traders to arbitrage

45:50

everything over there quietly here

45:52

again, just like they're doing this whole bricks

45:54

thing. The countries that are accumulating

45:56

it. The only reason they're not bitching is because

45:58

they're the ones buying it at these subsidized

46:00

prices. So they're using the West's

46:03

leverage to support the illusion

46:05

of a strong bond market and a strong currency.

46:08

Because what is gold and silver? They're monetary

46:10

metals. They they're the kryptonite to Superman.

46:13

They're pulling the cape or

46:16

the curtain, you know, at the Wizard of Oz

46:18

and seeing it's a little frail man. And if you have gold

46:20

and silver going much higher, you call into

46:22

question the strength of the world reserves. So

46:26

I believe that this suppression

46:28

is being allowed to happen,

46:30

and in fact, they don't care

46:32

about it because we're dumb enough to keep these

46:35

prices artificially low while they buy

46:37

it. And the four hundred million ounces

46:39

or thereabouts that India bought is way

46:42

more than this on the entire comex market

46:44

right now. So no, silver is

46:46

not dead, and silver will be one of

46:48

these things where we wake up on a Monday morning,

46:51

and it's there's no one stupid

46:53

enough to let go of it at that price where the comex

46:55

gets rendered obsolete. And I believe,

46:57

before it's all said and done that you will see rice

47:00

setting for these kinds of commodities, a

47:02

real one on the Shanghai Gold Exchange

47:05

or others in that part of the world, like

47:07

in Dubai, because they're the ones buying it all,

47:09

they're the ones producing it all, they're

47:11

the ones who understand its real value.

47:13

And you can see slowly

47:16

turn up that heat right now ten percent

47:18

more. You can arbitrage if

47:20

you're a big enough trader and have access

47:22

to those markets. You can buy in London or

47:25

buy in the US and sell in

47:27

China's immediately for ten percent

47:30

gain. Now. I think you know,

47:33

you're a pretty literate financial guy. You

47:35

know that traders will arbitrage

47:37

for a whole hell of a lot less than ten percent. And

47:39

that's exactly what we're beginning to see. So no, silver

47:42

is not dead. I think it's the buy of a generation.

47:44

Yeah, good stuff, good stuff, I agree,

47:46

And what we're seeing happening in the China

47:48

Shane High Exchange is definitely breaking the price

47:50

of gold. We see the price continue to separate

47:53

and I think will eventually break the grip

47:56

the LBMA has on the price of gold and

47:58

silver, and so that sort of goes more

48:00

to the Jim rickerdisis, which it could

48:02

pop the thirty thousand, you know pretty quickly

48:04

if something like that were to happen, and it's

48:07

probably.

48:07

Only a matter of time. I don't know.

48:09

It's probably not my base case that happens in twenty twenty four,

48:12

but potentially twenty five, twenty six, like

48:14

it's gonna happen at some point.

48:16

I agree with that.

48:17

We're gonna go ahead and wrap it up.

48:19

Andy Sheckman, President

48:21

of Miles Franklin Precious Medals Miles

48:23

Franklin dot com. Always

48:25

a wealth and knowledge, always happy to have

48:28

you on. And with that, we'll go ahead and sign

48:30

it off.

48:31

I appreciate it, Mark, I follow everything you

48:33

do. I think you're one of the brightest minds in the industry

48:35

and a honor to be here, and thank you for the invite.

48:38

Look forward to seeing you in Vancouver in a couple of

48:40

weeks, and I wish

48:42

you and everyone else out there very happy, healthy

48:45

New Year, and look forward to picking

48:47

up where we left off somewhere not too far down

48:49

the road

48:49

All right, Thanks Andy,