0:00

Let's just pop into some questions and let's see what we got.

0:08

Good job raising your hand. Thank you. Thank you for encouraging me.

0:12

So, um, should I just share my original?

0:17

And let's, let's ask your question first.

0:20

So remember what your question was that you put in the chat or

0:22

what you're struggling with? Yeah. So I was struggling.

0:25

I have, I believe that I have figured out very well, the belief and

0:29

all the original questions, but the kind of the new questions,

0:34

even the new memory, new emotional states, new story, I

0:40

was struggling with all of it. That makes sense. Let's let's let's back up. Pause for one

0:45

second. Why do you think you'd be struggling with it?

0:48

So I have to share my

0:52

one second. One second. We'll do that in a second. But I'm just

0:56

asking you a question first. Why do you think you're struggling

0:59

with it? Because it is related with my mother and I know I've

1:08

been harboring the law. Pause, let me pause. Hold on. Can you feel by the way this is

1:12

true for you and everybody? You want to get into the story?

1:15

Yeah, you feel that? Okay, I'm gonna pause you on that for one

1:19

second. Okay. We're gonna get there. But I want to say

1:22

something first. Okay. Why are you having trouble? It's not

1:27

about your mom. It's gonna be really obvious. I want to highlight this so that

1:32

the rest of what you share has context. It's gonna be so obvious when I say it.

1:36

Say it. I'm not gonna say it yet. Why are you having a hard time? I don't know. That's

1:47

correct. That is correct. Okay, now would you like to know why I think you're

1:52

having a hard time? Yeah, absolutely. Okay, I think you're having a hard time because

1:56

because you've never done this shit before.

2:00

I think this is a brand new thing for you.

2:03

Is that true? Okay.

2:06

So pause. - I can't understand, yeah. - Pause for one second.

2:09

But by creating these stories and these new emotions,

2:11

all that is what's new. The stuff you're having a hard time with.

2:14

Is that true? Okay. So, before we go into story,

2:19

I want to highlight something that's very important, okay?

2:23

I am observing you possibly expecting yourself

2:28

to have a level of mastery over something you've never done.

2:33

And I'm wondering how often that shows up for you.

2:37

- All the time.

2:42

- Okay, that is way, way important to acknowledge, okay?

2:47

What that tells me is you're used to probably being

2:50

in situations where you're the most competent person,

2:54

the most competent, smart person around,

2:57

you know how to handle your shit, and you can probably have a high capacity for resilience

3:01

to get through hard things. And you probably have a lot of intelligence

3:06

and know that you have the general ability to,

3:10

no matter what comes your way, get through it. Is some version of that directionally accurate?

3:14

- Yes, absolutely.

3:17

- Okay, where that will mess you up

3:20

is understanding to say, hold on a second, I don't know.

3:25

This is new.

3:28

In fact, it's not even, let me bring my prefrontal cortex online for a second.

3:31

It's not even fair for me to have the same expectations here

3:34

to have, be excellent at something I've never done.

3:39

Now, before you share more about what came up for you,

3:45

I'm curious specifically about what I just said,

3:49

just for that for one second.

3:51

What are you doing with what I just said? - It hits home.

3:56

I feel like you need to apply it and,

4:01

and I mean, I need to think about it and see it in,

4:05

you know, in life because I see it, but it's gonna help me when I take a step back

4:10

in many interactions and in life.

4:13

And it's a relief essentially.

4:18

- Yes, so let me then ask you one more question

4:22

and then let's talk about your history,

4:24

if you want for a moment, okay?

4:27

How does this approach to having to know everything

4:32

relate to what you were about to share about your mom?

4:37

- It's absolutely related, yes.

4:39

- Okay, tell me why.

4:42

- Why it's related?

4:45

- Yes. because I did not feel worthy or seen by my mom.

4:50

So I was trying to be a perfectionist,

4:53

you know, to make her love me.

4:55

- That's right. So without getting into the story,

4:58

can you see how we've identified the heart of the matter?

5:01

- Yeah, I mean, you're a genius.

5:05

I didn't even know how you.

5:07

I didn't even say- - 20,000 hours, 15 years, lots of practice.

5:12

- Wow. - Yeah. Or I just, no, you know, actually, you know what?

5:15

not true. I just sat on my meditation pillow and God

5:18

downloaded it to me. I'm the chosen one. No, I'm just kidding.

5:20

No, I'm kidding. I'm totally kidding. The idea, but the idea

5:26

is, is that what presents in this very moment, right, is a

5:31

story, which can be valuable. But what we want to work on is

5:35

the heart of the matter. And the heart of the matter is you not

5:39

not knowing how to say I don't know.

5:42

Because you had to know.

5:45

- Yeah.

5:48

- And you did a really good job knowing a lot of things.

5:53

And now what you're gonna know

5:55

is what to do when you don't know what to do.

5:59

Because if you don't know what to do,

6:02

but you know what to do when you don't know what to do,

6:05

then you'll know what to do. then you can not know a lot more. And that's called growth.

6:10

Wow.

6:13

So what are you doing? What I'm saying?

6:16

I'm just thinking how that needing to know and trying to be

6:24

perfect how it shaped all my life.

6:26

And by the way, I hope, and if it's not happening yet, that's

6:33

okay I hope you can start to find appreciation for that part see what we

6:38

do sometimes as we identify a part and then we beat the shit out of it we're

6:43

like yeah problem but another part look at the part that likes to shame all the

6:48

other parts a little shamer right you ever seen that Game of Thrones no there's

6:55

a scene where this like Queen who's all-powerful like get loses all her

7:00

power named Cersei and she like walks through the street there's like these

7:02

nuns are like yelling like shame like it's really like just like really

7:06

intense scene and I just like if you a Game of Thrones fan you I'm talking

7:09

about and I think we all have this part and I imagine it's like an inner nun

7:12

just like shame on you for procrastinating shame on you for

7:16

perfectionism doing the shame walk right it's like actually now we actually found

7:21

a more important part to find and to love up on which is that shame part

7:25

because that shame part is trying to get it right part which is actually what's

7:31

driving the perfectionism.

7:33

Does that make sense?

7:35

- Yeah. - Right?

7:38

So it's like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. I want to get it right, 'cause if I don't get it right,

7:41

I get this part that comes up and basically just like, shames me.

7:45

- Yeah. - What I need to do to move forward

7:49

is to love that shamed part, 'cause my mom couldn't,

7:52

lots of people couldn't, but like, whoa.

7:55

Shame? Thank you for trying to get it right.

8:00

Thank you for trying to get me to say it the right way.

8:03

Thank you for trying to keep me connected.

8:06

Thank you for trying to keep me out of trouble.

8:08

What's happening for you as I say that?

8:12

- I'm actually thinking that I kind of,

8:17

I'm in the process right now to dealing with it,

8:21

but the stuff that I initially wanted to talk about,

8:25

it's kind of much deeper, not deeper, but might be harder to address because it's more like,

8:34

maybe actually I'm thinking that trying to be perfect really got me in trouble because

8:43

that brings me to the other thing that I initially wanted to talk about,

8:48

which is like loneliness and lone wolfing. And I'm like thinking, oh my God, let's do

8:55

something quick because all my life, I guess it's the shamer

8:59

part, I screwed up. So let's fix it as soon as possible, which is

9:04

you know, I guess the, the part that wants to know. So it's all

9:09

like struggling in my head, all those parts, I guess. Because

9:14

I'm like, I want to know, I need to know right now to do it. I

9:18

can't be in the wrong, you know, the rest of my life.

9:23

Well, for the part of you that needs to know what to do right now, the answer is to turn

9:29

towards the part that needs to know. Where do you feel that part in your body?

9:34

I think it's a strong desire in my heart, probably.

9:38

And how old does that part think you are?

9:41

How old? Oh.

9:50

It's interesting. Maybe I want to say 20.

10:02

And what happens if that part doesn't know what to do?

10:06

The shamer part comes in.

10:12

Oh, see, this is I love this is the show I love. Right? We get to the heart of the matter.

10:20

and she's like, "Actually, there's this other deeper part

10:23

"that might be harder," and we're right back to where we started.

10:25

- That's right. (laughing)

10:28

Yeah.

10:32

- Yeah. So what we want to focus on is,

10:36

and I'm gonna say this, and I don't mean this literally,

10:39

but I'm speaking to the part that feels the shame.

10:42

Okay? We wanna make it safe to live a shameful life

10:47

for that part. 'Cause I could reframe it and go,

10:51

well, it's not shameful, it's this, it's healthy, it's that.

10:53

You learned this in childhood. But for that part of you,

10:56

it's still gonna feel like it's shameful even if we reframe.

10:58

- Yeah. - Parts don't want reframing, they want acknowledgement.

11:02

And what I will tell you is that,

11:10

I think it's like a way to hurt yourself more

11:14

if you try to assume that this happened for a reason.

11:17

I think that's a way of hurting yourself more.

11:21

Something had to happen. There's a reason why this happened.

11:24

What if there's no reason why this happened,

11:26

but you can find purpose from what happened? - But then I can't reframe the original incident if I can't.

11:33

- Exactly. - And then what?

11:37

- Because here's the thing, trauma is not a lesson.

11:42

Trauma is not a gift. Trauma is not something you decided to have

11:45

before you got here. Trauma happens. and what you do with the trauma you've been through,

11:51

that's where your choice is,

11:53

and that's where you can find purpose. So finding purpose from trauma

11:57

is different than finding the purpose of the trauma.

12:00

Those prepositions matter, from and of.

12:04

If there's a purpose of this trauma,

12:07

if there's a purpose, why this happened to me,

12:10

now I'm gonna assign a meaning to God,

12:12

or to humanity, or to my soul before birth,

12:14

or some shit like that. I'm going through this for a reason.

12:17

If you are, trauma happens.

12:19

But if you can find purpose from the trauma,

12:24

you can find a purpose for the trauma,

12:27

something happened to you, and now I'm gonna use it for this growth potential,

12:31

I'm gonna use it for this healing thing, I'm gonna use it to become more compassionate.

12:35

That's the reframing that we wanna focus on.

12:37

- Okay.

12:40

- Because why did it happen to you? I don't know.

12:43

It's impossible to say that. And I'm not gonna sit here and go,

12:45

yeah, some, some, your soul chose it before you were born.

12:48

Like, I don't know about that.

12:50

Maybe, I don't know. What I found is when you talk about someone

12:54

like Viktor Frankl, who was in Auschwitz and lost most of his family and he was in the worst

12:58

of the worst, you know, what got him through was realizing,

13:03

oh my God, when I survived this, which is a positive,

13:06

I mean, who knows if he was actually gonna survive at the time, but he imagined himself helping others

13:10

with what he was going through right now.

13:12

Not this happened and my soul chose it to be here.

13:16

But no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Right.

13:19

It's now that I'm here and I'm in this situation, I imagine all the good I can do

13:22

with this knowledge, which is different than my soul chose to be in Auschwitz or

13:27

some shit like that, which is just so ridiculous.

13:29

Okay. That part, I feel like I apply raising my son differently.

13:36

However, I'm still struggling and it might be not necessary.

13:41

How to forgive my mother or we're not on forgiveness right now.

13:45

Okay. So that's not what we're on.

13:48

What we're on is what we're on is living a shameful life.

13:53

Go do all that shameful stuff.

13:58

Notice, think about this, right? Think about the stuff you feel ashamed of, right?

14:02

When you don't get quite right. It's probably stuff you care about most.

14:04

Like, have you ever shamed yourself for taking out the trash the wrong way?

14:09

- Yeah. - Okay, you must care about that.

14:16

Have you ever shamed yourself? What's something that you've never shamed yourself for

14:19

that would be obvious, like drinking water or like something really basic?

14:24

- Yeah. - Okay, so you've never shamed yourself

14:27

for drinking a glass of water.

14:29

Okay, but the things you probably care about,

14:31

orderliness, tidiness, things like that, relationships,

14:36

The things that matter to you probably shame yourself for.

14:39

Right? But then that stops you from doing things

14:42

in those areas, doesn't it?

14:44

So the only option is to go live a shameful life

14:46

for that part. It's not the fact that you feel the shame

14:51

that's the problem. The problem is that you stop when you feel shame.

14:55

- Okay.

14:57

- See, if we could help you improve your relationship

15:01

to that emotion, you'll know what to do.

15:05

you think that you shouldn't feel shame.

15:07

- Yeah.

15:10

- And what I'm saying is that part of you should be there

15:13

and probably will feel shame. And we're gonna go do all those shameful things, like what?

15:21

- I can't think of it 'cause I'm still in the other parts

15:28

and processing what you said,

15:30

so I kind of can't think of the little things of life, but.

15:35

It's interesting because I feel like it'd be really easy for you to think about the things you shame yourself for.

15:39

If what? How many things do you shame yourself for?

15:42

Getting wrong, not doing perfectly.

15:45

How many things? Probably shit on a daily basis.

15:47

Um, I feel like I stopped at some point.

15:54

I forced myself to stop. Except for today when you couldn't figure out the answer.

15:59

Yeah. But what I mean like with the little things of life,

16:07

I stop, but the big things that are really important.

16:10

- I didn't say little things, I said the shameful things.

16:13

- Yeah. - What are the things you shame yourself for?

16:16

Not getting what right? Relationships, money, what?

16:19

Health? - Relationships, not finding the right job.

16:24

- Yeah, so like let's go do shameful things in those areas.

16:28

And I'm only speaking to that part,

16:31

I don't mean literally go shame yourself.

16:33

but the part of you will feel shame. Like for me, it always feels like no one will be there.

16:37

So I think about like,

16:40

what are the things I'm worried about no one showing up for?

16:43

It's like marketing events, coaching calls,

16:47

social media, whatever, right?

16:50

Like the most important things. I'm not like, oh my God,

16:53

there's nobody that's gonna show up to my shower.

16:56

Like I don't want anyone to show up to my shower. (laughs)

17:00

Right? I've never once worried about that, right?

17:02

but the things where that really kicks in are the areas that mean the most.

17:05

And so where we have high vulnerability,

17:07

we have high shame in your case. So when we say go live a shameful life,

17:12

what I'm really saying is go do the things you care about most.

17:15

If the price of freedom is to make friends with shame,

17:21

I bet that's a very cheap price

17:24

compared to what you've already paid.

17:26

- Yeah. - I'm not saying it's gonna be easy,

17:30

but it is relatively simple. And I bet as you get into the program,

17:34

what's the opposite of shame? - I guess being proud of myself?

17:40

- Yeah, I bet that some version of that emotion

17:43

will emerge as your purpose emotions as you get into modules four and five.

17:47

- Okay. - Usually the thing that we're going for

17:51

contains the opposite emotional content

17:53

of what we're coming from. So if we're coming from shame,

17:56

we're going towards being proud or some version of that.

17:59

- Okay.

18:02

And that's where we get inner conflict. I wanna do things that make me feel proud of myself,

18:06

but I feel this shame. Welcome to the land of ambivalence and inner conflict,

18:10

which is predictable in every journey.

18:12

And now I get to bring that to the program.

18:15

And now I get to create corrective emotional experiences

18:18

that help me feel proud of myself, even when I feel shame.

18:21

Another way to put it is,

18:28

when you talk about new thoughts and behaviors, make a list of all the shit that you felt shameful of

18:33

and flip it upside down and say,

18:35

my goal is to feel proud of myself in this scenario.

18:38

Does that make sense?

18:40

Are you breathing?

18:43

- I stopped for a second.

18:46

(laughs) I'm breathing. - Yeah.

18:49

So does that answer your question? - Thank you so much.

18:53

Yeah. - Beautiful, awesome.

18:55

Let's hear from y'all, so good. - Thank you.

18:57

- So good. I love this show. This is like so fun.

19:01

(upbeat music)

19:03

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