0:00

Better than the Lego. Better than the Lego.

0:03

Matthew Johns is in position for

0:05

a long-range shot. He's with it now, Matthew Johns.

0:08

Here goes the kick from Johns.

0:10

The game's never been more

0:13

athletic and more athletically demanding, but

0:15

the two lights who are having probably the biggest impact on the competition

0:18

are two old bastards. You've

0:20

got Sean Johnson, you've got Adam Reynolds.

0:23

Very good. It's almost like the NFL quarterback

0:25

setup, right? set up right because you've got all

0:27

this athleticism, power, skill,

0:30

size in and around them. Yet you

0:32

need someone with footy IQ. And with

0:35

Reynolds, like you can see all the ingredients

0:37

are there because what his strengths

0:40

are compliment the other players in and

0:42

around him. But Sean Johnson,

0:44

I got to tip my cap to him. Like for

0:46

a long time, he's always had X factor,

0:48

but he's starting to put, what

0:50

is he, 30, He won 32 now, started

0:53

to put all the elements of a halfback

0:55

into play. And when he kicked

0:57

that winning goal on the weekend, he just

0:59

knew that he was going to do that because he's always done that

1:02

through his career. But the other part

1:04

is more impressive, how he got that team to fall back

1:06

from 20-0 down by just

1:08

doing conservative high repetition

1:10

of high percentage plays. He's

1:13

playing really well and the Warriors are doing great. What's

1:16

interesting about that is that, like you're saying, And as

1:19

more athletic, you know, it's probably easier to

1:21

mould that athletic. So then the commodity

1:23

of footy IQ becomes even more

1:26

and more relevant than ever before. One

1:29

of the things you really notice – I've watched

1:31

Reynolds a few times playing there – is the amount

1:33

of time he has on the ball, compared to everybody

1:36

else. It's almost like he's got time – you

1:39

know about this, you know. He's got time to

1:41

look around, see that other players don't have

1:43

on the ball. And then

1:45

I think for a guy like Sean

1:47

Johnson, one of the things, I even had

1:49

a talk with him, I remember when he was struggling a bit about going

1:51

to Japan, a player would be, because he was looking

1:54

at some different options. What I feel

1:56

like he's doing this year is

1:59

controlling the temp.

2:00

of the game. So he knows how to speed

2:02

it up. You know how to say it in Serbia? He can

2:04

speed it up when he wants to speed it up and

2:06

then slow it down when he wants to say that. That is

2:08

a real after. The best part about that is he's traditionally

2:11

or historically hasn't been able to do that. Exactly.

2:13

Yes. Now, at the age of the years

2:15

now, almost 12-odd

2:18

ages, he's starting to put it all together,

2:20

which is very well

2:22

done. One, to wimp to the coach to set up the

2:24

thing around him, but then also for Sean to deliver. Well

2:27

that's what I'm saying, like, you know,

2:29

Chek, he's always

2:30

been... He's reminded me... He's been compared

2:32

a lot to Benji in his

2:34

career. And like Benji, Benji

2:36

had a nice little spike at the back end of his career when

2:38

he decided to finally let go of

2:41

the 18, 19-year-old bloke, who was,

2:43

you know, the highlight reels and all that sort

2:45

of stuff. And you can see that with Johnson. He's

2:47

just taken a step back. Mate, the

2:49

thing is, you're in a game where there's a lot of people

2:51

watching, right? So when you talk about Benji,

2:55

that no one wants to let him go. No one wants to

2:57

let... They all want the back behind the back flick and

2:59

the little bit over the top. Everyone wants it. And the same

3:01

for Sean, I imagine that. Everyone wants

3:03

that, Sean Johnson. So it's got to be... Everything's at 100

3:05

miles an hour. Everything's got to be highlights

3:08

reel. Whereas maybe now

3:10

he's also... Perhaps a coach has finally

3:12

said to him, I don't know the coach or the Warriors, but

3:14

he's said, this is what I want you to do this

3:16

year. I want you to run the team. This is what we need

3:19

from you. And maybe he's been able

3:21

to understand that better in that instance.

3:23

On that note, on coaching, I

3:25

took my lead to Anthony Griffin. Like,

3:28

check, he's been under monumental pressure and

3:31

he hasn't been getting a lot of support from

3:33

within either. But on the weekend,

3:35

judging by the way, you said George Ellawarra played, he

3:37

coached with a fair bit of daring through the week. How

3:40

tough is it to be your best self as a coach

3:43

when you're copping it and you're probably

3:45

not getting the support you need from within?

3:48

Yeah, mate, I think that that's

3:50

the time. That's actually the time to be

3:52

your best self. You know what I

3:53

mean? That's the time where it's you. And I

3:56

would say, mate, that compromises.

4:00

As in coaching, it's

4:02

really key, like how many compromises

4:05

you make to keep your job

4:07

or to play it safe? Or

4:10

if you're just thinking, no, this is who

4:12

I am, this is how I'm going to coach, this is how

4:15

I want to be. Now, the question there

4:17

is what will happen next week and what will happen the

4:19

week after that? It can't always be just when everything's

4:21

online. It's got to almost be an internal philosophy.

4:24

This is how I'm going to do it. And you've got to stay stoic,

4:26

right? Because once, as a player sitting

4:29

there listening to the coach

4:30

speak, once you start feeling that voice

4:32

flicker, you think,

4:35

what are we doing here? But if he is like, Adam,

4:37

this is the path, get in behind me, this

4:39

is the way we go. Yep, I'm on board,

4:41

let's do this. So presentation,

4:43

how you talked during the week, there's big

4:46

storylines around whether a team can follow

4:48

you and believe you. The other part, check, is that

4:51

coaching conservatively versus

4:54

basically giving players the confidence

4:57

or the license to do whatever they want in

4:59

a moment. Because in yesterday's game, the

5:01

dogs versus the cowboys. The cowboys are

5:03

trying to find their rhythm and they found

5:05

it through being conservative. High percentage players

5:07

for long periods of time and for 78 minutes,

5:10

they were gonna win the game. But the dogs

5:12

for 78 minutes, for 78 minutes were

5:14

trying things. They were trying to express themselves, back

5:17

themselves, fell short a couple of times. But ultimately

5:20

when the game was on the line, the

5:22

courage to back yourself and come up with a huge

5:24

play, won

5:26

them the victory. So how do you do that

5:28

as a coach? How do you coach versus conservative

5:30

in moments, but also give the license to players

5:33

to do whatever they want? Well, mate, I don't think you ever

5:35

coach conservatively. Like, I think you coach

5:37

with a framework, right? This is how

5:39

we want to play. Like, this is the framework that comes

5:42

with our style so that your key

5:45

playmakers, the guys who will make those big

5:47

plays, who can make those daring plays, because not

5:49

everyone can, right? They'll

5:51

understand when the right moment is, so I'll know, I've got that

5:53

guy here, and I know I'll have that guy there. He'll be over

5:56

there. This is what I'll see. And

5:58

then I'll make those big. from there.

6:00

So understanding what your framework is

6:02

and then giving the freedom by

6:05

saying when

6:06

they do do it and it doesn't pay

6:09

off that you've got to give that freedom as

6:11

that was the right intention because intention

6:13

is everything in the game. It's almost like the style

6:15

fit in the player, right? Because you don't want to

6:17

handcuff freakish players

6:20

and then the conservative guys, you don't want to say, hey mate, do

6:22

this on the fourth tackle because that's the

6:24

way we go. It's funny, I find,

6:27

like if you try to play

6:29

conservative and get a creative player and try

6:31

to take away his imagination,

6:35

intuition, things like that, it

6:37

just destroys him. Now when you

6:40

take away a side's ability to sort of think

6:42

outside the square. Well, so in that

6:44

game, I'll be interested to hear what you say

6:46

about this, because you're saying they were playing conservative,

6:48

maybe the Cowboys, in that game,

6:51

Deaton made a play where there

6:53

was no one at the back and he just kicked through, he just

6:55

saw that off the cuff, you know what I mean? So

6:57

sometimes, is

6:59

it the situation

7:01

of the game that makes players

7:03

feel a little bit different? Oh, it's tight here, I

7:05

better tighten up? Or when

7:07

it's tight, this is when I've got to be at my most

7:09

loose because I'll be able to see everything

7:12

around me in either a 180, you know what

7:14

I mean? Or even... I think individuals in moments

7:16

spot things and you never handcuff that. If

7:18

you see something, go for it. But both

7:21

teams went in in the contest,

7:23

with two wins, two losses. And the way they started,

7:26

the Cowboys were doing all the right things.

7:28

Pretty conservative out of their own in, one out runners, a lot of support,

7:31

holding the ball, kicking long.

7:32

But the Cowboys, the dogs were shifting

7:34

the ball in tough conditions. And I sat there going, there's

7:37

a different style here. This is gonna see how it works.

7:39

And in the conditions, conservative for 78

7:41

minutes, almost got it done. Isn't it funny,

7:44

conservative can work in one sense to the

7:46

conditions, but conservative means that

7:48

you're given the opposition the chance to beat you because you're not

7:50

scoring points. Wow, that's it. That's the

7:52

ultimate. I'm interested to hear from, you

7:55

know, as a sort of part-time leaguer, I suppose,

7:57

is that, you know, you're always talking about.

8:00

So that's almost like

8:02

the connecting stat to conservatism, right? Yeah.

8:05

So is there a sweet

8:07

spot

8:07

somewhere along that line to 100% completions? Is

8:10

there a sweet spot at 80% or is

8:12

there what you know you played roosters, their

8:15

completions were almost the lowest in those years

8:17

that you won. Yeah, as a general rule, 80% is top

8:19

of the shelf. Like if you're at 80%, you

8:21

know, you're there about sitting holding on the ball. But

8:25

the other part, the roosters have a different

8:27

philosophy. When they've been successful,

8:29

they're down the bottom end of the ladder

8:31

in terms of completion. It's probably closer to 70 than 80. But

8:35

what they do focus on is execution

8:37

of

8:37

the time when you have the ball, which is not a stat.

8:40

You can't control that. So in that moment, what

8:42

is your execution like in the play? And

8:45

often, if it's high, the play will

8:47

unfold. But if it's conservative and sort

8:49

of not being thought

8:51

of in that moment, then that's where it's... the

8:53

soccer world cup in 2002. And football

8:57

at that point, like the big sides,

9:00

like the Italians

9:02

and the Germans had periods in the game where they just pushed

9:04

the ball amongst the back, you know, and

9:06

just retained possession. It was

9:09

always about possession, possession, possession.

9:11

And that world cup suddenly had teams

9:13

like Turkey and South Korea having

9:16

a philosophy,

9:16

use it or lose it.

9:18

And they were just all out of attack and they

9:20

were beating some of the top sides

9:22

with that. I think there's an element of that coming in with

9:24

the rugby league. You can't be frivolous with the football,

9:27

but if you play conservative and all you're worried about

9:30

putting the ball up the jersey and holding

9:32

it, you're going to get beat. Well, there'll

9:34

be a set of,

9:35

mate, I reckon there'll be a set of statistics

9:38

or numbers that will set the trend of, OK, what

9:40

are winners doing? So winners are completing

9:43

at this rate, they're doing this many plays inside 22,

9:46

all these types of things. And I think that

9:48

there's the option you have as a coach when you come into this

9:50

to say, are you going to follow the trends?

9:52

Because we were talking before, you know, if you follow the

9:54

trends, sometimes it becomes self-fulfilling prophecy.

9:58

Or do you make a decision because of the pliers? you've

10:00

got because of the style that you like

10:02

to coach, I will go against the trend and find

10:04

a different way. Because going against the trend

10:06

can sometimes be the

10:08

thing that actually does win you the games.

10:10

That's interesting. Lee Breers

10:14

was an unorthodox

10:17

English rugby league half.

10:19

Played at Warrington with Alf and Kevi. And

10:22

always a bit of a loose unit, Brizzy. Now,

10:25

Kevi's taken him across to be a tech coach at the Broncos.

10:28

And in my opinion, it's that,

10:30

and I can see the way they're playing, there's a little bit of thinking

10:32

outside the square, and they're playing with the freedom

10:35

that I haven't seen. I don't see it with a lot

10:37

of sides. It's just interesting you say

10:39

that, you know, to have that point of difference than what

10:41

other teams are doing. I think whether it's union

10:44

or league, I think defence will always be king.

10:46

I think that's number one. You have to be one

10:48

of the best offensive teams to be

10:51

successful. But when you get two,

10:53

three, four good defensive teams, what's the point of difference?

10:56

Now we're talking about attack. Now we're talking about

10:58

is

10:58

it the offload game which has been

11:00

introduced through some athleticism in individuals

11:03

or is it that point of difference of thinking

11:05

outside the square as we play a style

11:08

one week but then coaches dissect

11:10

that style and then we change that style the following

11:12

week to break down a good defensive team. Best side I ever

11:14

played against by Myloff was the 94 Raiders. Mullens,

11:20

Nandruku, Nagas, Menenga,

11:22

Wiki, Stewart, Daly, Clyde, so

11:25

on and so forth. They were such a great

11:27

side because they used

11:28

the football and threw the ball

11:30

around, but the moment they turned it over and said, there

11:32

you go, they just bashed the shit out of you.

11:35

Well, it's like insurance, mate. It

11:37

is. Defence is insurance. You

11:39

can play and attack and... I remember going

11:41

to the tyres or our tyres whenever

11:44

it was, 2012 or 13 or whatever, and

11:46

saying,

11:47

defence is going to be our... We're going to play a running game, but

11:49

defence is going to be the first thing we work on because that's

11:51

going to be our insurance. When our running game goes pear-shaped,

11:54

which it can do, it will do. And

11:56

then if all, that's gonna be what saves

11:58

us. and then that'll be.

12:00

what helps us win a game 9-6. And

12:02

then I'll take you to the other extreme where

12:04

you say you're playing against New Zealand in rugby.

12:08

Well,

12:09

you can be a good defensive team and they're still going to score

12:11

three tries. So you've got to score four. You've

12:14

got to have,

12:17

I totally agree, the fundamental foundation

12:19

of building success is from defence,

12:21

but it is your insurance then to be able

12:23

to allow you to go on and score. Can I ask you this,

12:26

your coach and Argentina, and I

12:28

find it fascinating, Argentina and rugby, a

12:31

team that was built

12:33

on rucking and mauling that suddenly

12:36

did

12:36

the switch, which now plays unorthodox

12:39

sideline to sideline play, that's

12:43

got the ability and we've seen that, to just

12:45

drive the all blacks of all teams crazy

12:48

and beat the top sides playing that way.

12:50

Where was, why the change?

12:53

Who recognised that they had to change? I

12:55

think that there was a change when they

12:58

joined Super Rugby as

13:00

a nation and they

13:02

had a Super Rugby team. So

13:05

the game's been played a little bit like that here compared

13:07

to the Northern Hemisphere, where most of their players

13:09

would have traditionally played. Since

13:13

then now, I think we're starting to get that right

13:15

balance back where Scrum and

13:17

Moore is still, and that rucking

13:19

game is very important, but we've also

13:21

got the other part where

13:23

we can play with the ball and keep the ball

13:25

in motion, offloading as well as another big

13:28

part of what they like to do, keep the ball alive.

13:30

Wingers

13:32

getting off their wing and lurking around behind

13:34

rucks and trying to keep the

13:36

continuity of the game going. And

13:39

I think the balance of

13:42

all the sectors of the game is

13:44

where you need if you want to compete at the top level. But

13:46

they needed to have that transition,

13:48

I think, also to grow the game in their country as

13:51

well to show that there's more to rugby than just that.

13:53

Interesting you talk about that, like making that transition

13:56

and being able to do it during the match while

13:58

watching the roosters play.

14:00

I watched the Roosters play

14:03

the last few weeks, watching them play Parramatta on Thursday

14:05

night, and I really liked the way they started the game.

14:07

They actually started the game playing sideline

14:10

to sideline, denying Parramatta

14:12

that

14:12

physical dominance or

14:16

the ability to play physical.

14:19

But then, once

14:20

you do that, your

14:23

prize is in the middle of the defence, but you've got to be

14:25

able to switch and bring it back. And that's where like Brandon

14:27

Smith, Brandon Smith against Souths,

14:30

suddenly he comes on the field and starts drilling through the

14:32

middle and the other night that crucial try before

14:34

half time. Brandon again

14:36

fast ball movement but

14:38

then suddenly not one before half time he

14:40

starts drilling the middle. And you talk about attack

14:43

right whether it's legal union if you want to express

14:45

yourself your spine in rugby

14:47

league needs to be fully connected

14:50

and

14:50

in that kiri try aerial view you'll

14:52

watch it. Brandon goes down the short side

14:55

and within a 10-metre radius

14:57

is Swalee, Brandon, Kiri

15:00

and Walker. So Swalee goes short

15:02

side, he moves back across, Walker

15:04

moves, Kiri supports. It's almost like a leg

15:07

rope with a surfboard. Once you get pulled,

15:10

the rest of the spine need to move and it's I

15:12

imagine it's the same with rugby because once you

15:14

start moving the ball around, your

15:16

smart guys need to be connected

15:18

and moving together at the same pace.

15:20

I'm a certain cheque. And

15:23

I wonder sometimes how Robbo's going, Trent

15:25

Robbo with Brandon, because he's a

15:27

different guy than anyone you've coached with. Yeah. How

15:29

do you coach scallywags, rascals,

15:32

guys that are going to test you, blokes, you know, who

15:34

are going to, you know, try to test the boundaries?

15:38

Mate, you coach them like anybody else. You

15:41

just go with their personality. I think every

15:43

locker room mate has got to have, I've always believed, you've

15:46

got to have the joker, the

15:48

bookworm, a quiet guy, white guy, the ladies

15:50

man, that you know those different personalities

15:53

that you sit in the dressing room after the game and you look at

15:55

each other and you go, man, I love playing

15:57

footy with that guy. You know what I mean? and

15:59

in neither They'll do something for you, the blockhead.

16:03

There's something about that that ignites

16:05

something in other players. So,

16:08

say, Brandon Smith, if he's the Scaliwag

16:10

in this instance, that'll ignite something in

16:13

Sam Walker, because they'll go, I like playing

16:15

with him, it'll make me better. You know, there's some guys

16:17

who just make other players better. And

16:20

what I've seen so far this season, I think

16:22

they're doing a great job of roosters with Brandon Smith

16:24

because he's just slowly but surely...

16:26

You know, there would have been a lot of things, I'll

16:28

come in and make an impact, but

16:30

he's just adding a little bit every

16:32

week. Started probably in the South game. Then

16:35

he started adding and growing and concentrating. Even

16:37

seeing the body language when he does do something

16:39

good about how they're connecting together. You know

16:41

what I mean as a team. As a coach, right? Pushing

16:44

the right button at the right time to get a

16:46

reaction. Now, Brandon Smith comes

16:48

up against the Melville Storm this weekend.

16:50

So what would you do there,

16:52

Cheikh? It couldn't be Brandon, it could be any

16:54

play. But when you want to push the right

16:56

button to get a reaction, depending on that personality,

16:59

what sort of tricks or what ideas would you

17:02

use? Well, I think that's if we... Golf

17:04

club. Golf club, yes. There

17:06

it is. Well, if there's a lot of different techniques

17:09

you can use, I think this week it'll

17:11

be very interesting if I think about that matchup.

17:14

I think you'd be thinking more about what's the opposition

17:16

going to do to try to push his button and then

17:18

do the thing that they don't want. That they don't,

17:20

you know, they'll be looking to get a reaction probably out

17:22

of Brandon Smith. So it could

17:25

be the poker face, you know, like do

17:27

nothing, right, and ignore, right,

17:29

because they'd probably be looking to have a laugh with him or

17:32

a G up or

17:34

something like that. And I think that those

17:37

are the little things that are, the

17:39

little gestures, you know what I mean? Like

17:42

that's, you see players who've known

17:44

each other,

17:46

right, and they've played with each other. When they

17:48

go against each other, what

17:50

you do, what he might be expecting

17:53

from Munster, let's say, if he shocks

17:56

him, that has an effect on the team,

17:58

you know, He didn't expect him to... do that.

18:00

I think that's something that once you cross the white line

18:02

on the field no matter how good a mate you are you've got to do.

18:05

That's interesting because when we saw the Dolphins play

18:07

the Broncos

18:09

leading into that game there was a

18:11

press conference, Kevi turned

18:13

up, Wayne didn't turn up. I said to someone I

18:15

know that's about the pressure building

18:18

and Wayne knew if he turned up and Kevi looks at

18:20

it and gives him a wink the pressure gets released.

18:23

It was just about maintaining it. He'll take a quick

18:25

break and be back with Coops in a minute.

18:27

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18:45

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18:47

burning people.

18:48

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18:52

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18:57

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19:00

Talking about pressure, T really impressed me last week.

19:03

Young Joseph Swalee really impressed

19:06

me. Bastards stalling. But

19:08

anyway, but

19:09

the two weeks they had the boy, so for

19:11

two weeks he had to sit on that, all that stuff

19:13

that was going on, all the commentary,

19:16

bit

19:16

of criticism, people saying, oh, is he

19:18

worth it? All that. And my older

19:21

blokes, more experienced blokes, that can weigh on them. And

19:23

he just went out there and honestly just showed

19:25

his class, didn't miss a beat.

19:28

Yeah, it's the old, how did you invest

19:30

in people, not ideas, right? Like

19:32

Joseph Swale could play chess

19:34

or ping pong because he's just got a personality

19:37

that says, you know what, I believe in myself,

19:39

I'll work my backside off to improve the skills

19:41

that I'm not good at. And in any given moment,

19:44

that kid could turn it on. I've

19:46

seen some good young players come through, you know,

19:48

English and Folau and at different

19:50

stages and this kid's got it.

19:53

In terms of rugby, the

19:55

ability to create space

19:58

because now whether it's legal union.

20:00

It's almost impossible to outstrip

20:02

a defensive line in terms of, you know, having a two-man

20:05

overlap in the corner. At some stage,

20:07

you're going to win a game by individuals,

20:10

physical ability one-on-one, close

20:12

the line, hand or a pass or something

20:14

like that. And I think this kid's got the ability to

20:16

take anyone one-on-one. Well,

20:20

I spoke to him a bit at the World Cup

20:22

of the league, you know, with Samo, we did a

20:24

mixed session with them, like a drill with them

20:27

one day. He just looked very

20:29

certain about what he wanted to do in the

20:31

game as a whole. Do I want to play

20:33

fullback? Do I want to play centre? Do I want

20:35

to play rugby? Do I want to play league? I think he's

20:37

got a really clear...

20:40

I don't know him super well, but I think he's

20:42

got a really clear point of view about

20:44

what's going to be good for him. And I think

20:46

that you're right. He has handled all

20:49

of that action really well, but it doesn't surprise

20:51

me because having met him a few times along

20:54

the way, he'd almost expect that

20:56

overly... Sometimes you go, it's too

20:58

mature a reaction for a kid of his age, but

21:00

he's done very well with it. To your point, matey, because he

21:02

went to full back against Souths and

21:05

had a couple of opportunities out the back of shape

21:08

to pull the trigger and hit the winger

21:10

and missed a couple, right? But then

21:12

moves to full back against Parramatta and

21:15

some class touches. Didn't even overplay his end. A

21:17

couple of them just dished it on and that created

21:19

the try screwing opportunity. I heard Dane Gagoy

21:21

once talk about when Joey went to,

21:25

started doing a bit of work with the

21:27

Knights when they sort of went off a cliff there for the

21:29

stint there. But he said, we're talking,

21:31

he was talking about, you know, Bradman Best and

21:33

Gagai sat down with the playmakers and explained

21:36

to them, and I love Gagai's reply. I just

21:38

think, and he just said, guys, you got to understand,

21:40

he said, for a centre, there's a small window of opportunity.

21:43

He said, it's learning to give the ball

21:46

just at the right time, the right time to the centre. He

21:48

said, if you give it to me too early, they'll push

21:50

me for the inside, they'll put me over the sideline. You

21:52

give it to me too late, the wing is going to hit me outside

21:54

in.

21:55

And he said, like, it's an exact

21:57

science. If you watch Swahili,

21:59

the other one... He

22:00

comes around on these three on twos where they

22:02

just peel them short a little bit. And

22:04

he just, so simple, like

22:06

Coop said, just at the exact right

22:08

time, just feeds the ball to the centre. It

22:11

just makes it look

22:12

something that is difficult, made it

22:14

look so easy. You say all the time that a

22:16

pass has its own fingerprint, right? Yep. And

22:19

each pass at the back of shape

22:21

or to a back row or whatever has its own fingerprint,

22:23

because you have a different time. You might have to engage

22:25

the centre to get the ball across, or just

22:28

give it to your centre who's moving onto the footy and tow

22:30

him along.

22:30

Like, it is an exact science.

22:33

There's an almost intrinsic understanding,

22:35

something that those players has to have naturally,

22:39

where they can move off the ball. So they'll

22:41

understand the way to the pass straight away. So they can

22:43

start moving sideways away from a ball and then

22:45

collect the ball and keep going on that arc.

22:48

Understand where the defence is coming from the other side.

22:50

The thing about

22:52

Joseph there, I'd imagine, is the

22:54

good thing about him and why he'll be a very, very

22:57

top player is that he will understand

22:59

exactly, you were talking about that South game where

23:01

his defaults were there and

23:03

he would have gone and worked on them straight away. You

23:06

know what I mean? In speaking with

23:08

him, he understands he's still got a long way to go even

23:10

though he's well up the scale already.

23:12

So that's why he'll be a success in whatever he does.

23:15

You mentioned the Rubble League World Cup check.

23:18

You had

23:19

success there with the Lebanese side. The

23:21

difference, firstly, Hemos did you enjoy it?

23:23

Great fun. It was awesome. It was like,

23:27

I think it was, I was like a kid

23:29

in the lollyshop honestly, because it was obviously a

23:31

new experience, new game. So coaching

23:33

a new game in the, you know, in the World

23:36

Cup was, and you know,

23:38

they actually let me call the shots too. Like

23:40

I was talking and Robin were

23:42

letting me say stuff. You know what I mean? It

23:45

was a bit,

23:46

it was just, and also the cultural side, you

23:49

know, obviously helping a lot of those

23:51

and then we were talking before, they were so interested

23:53

in coaching players, It was so

23:55

interesting coaching players, the top

23:57

of the top, you know, Mitchell.

24:00

and Adam, those types of guys. And then

24:02

guys who were part-timers, who were playing

24:04

for club side on the weekend or

24:07

two nights a week and working all day every

24:09

day, just that ability to get the message

24:11

across. It was really challenging as a coach, but

24:13

a great challenge and got so

24:16

much back from him, loved it. How

24:18

did you find the adjustment coaching

24:21

under the 10 metre rule, as opposed to rugby

24:23

when you're defending

24:25

and attacking with defence on

24:27

the scrum line? How much different

24:30

did you find? Yeah, well, it gives you a lot

24:32

more range to try things. And

24:34

obviously, because it's quite

24:36

a standardised format, you

24:38

know who you can get to, you know who you can

24:40

get at, and you

24:43

understand also

24:44

what the possible options are around

24:48

that. Here's the two or three options that could happen when

24:50

we come to the line in this formation. So

24:54

what it does, it allows you to play the game

24:56

with more pace, the attacking game with more pace,

24:58

because you're bringing the pace to the game and the

25:00

defence is, it's coming to you but it's also

25:02

waiting for you. Whereas in rugby

25:05

it's almost the reverse, where you're back,

25:07

you've got to try and bring

25:09

an attack forward to a defence that's quite comfortable

25:12

coming forward. I don't really, to

25:14

be honest, I don't understand why the difference, because it's

25:17

almost the same equation, but one's

25:19

doing the opposite to the other. It's interesting. But

25:22

it's maybe a mindset. As you get older,

25:24

I reckon as a playmaker, you actually

25:26

want to play, like, cursor back there and

25:28

say you want to actually play flat-eck because

25:30

you know who your target defender

25:32

is and you almost want to say please

25:35

you come to me because I can't run him or get to you. Whereas,

25:38

there's two

25:39

ways I always look at when

25:41

I think about rugby, the defence that

25:43

close to you and the first one is okay

25:45

as a tacky, you haven't got as much time and space

25:48

but if you've got great understanding with people

25:50

around you then the other

25:53

side to look at it is if you know what you're going to do

25:55

in a split second or the sharp call then

25:57

they've got no reaction time to defend.

26:00

One of the other really interesting things

26:02

about it, I feel, is different is there's a lot

26:04

more opportunities. So

26:07

in league, we're coming to you, in

26:11

numbers, and there could be any range of options.

26:13

The front door, the back door, the ball back

26:15

inside, there's a lot, it's all happening

26:18

on top of you there, but we're bringing the pace,

26:20

so whereas in rugby, there's probably more opportunities

26:22

to give the ball early and get

26:25

it back.

26:25

Gotcha. Right? So I'm coming on a shift.

26:28

I've got three, still three outside

26:30

me. As opposed to taking

26:32

everything out of it and trying to put someone in a hole, I

26:35

can make a move and draw a guy, turn his hips,

26:38

shift the ball, keep going on a support

26:40

line because you could get a ball back inside because every

26:43

ball's a contest. You know there's not

26:45

gonna be another, there may

26:47

not be another play after that one, right?

26:49

So you're trying to keep that going. And

26:51

to your point about having everyone on the same page

26:53

around you, right?

26:55

And naturally, whether it's legal

26:57

union, when you feel like you've been under pressure

26:59

from defence, most people say, I'll take

27:02

a step back. But I would say

27:04

actually, if you're on the same page, take a step forward,

27:07

because you're going close to the defensive

27:09

line, you're gonna commit more players. If

27:11

you condense space here, there's

27:13

space out there. Whereas if you take that step

27:16

back, that pressure's gonna come this way and

27:18

you only have one way to run. It's essential

27:20

because in both games, one of the hugely

27:23

important, what I've learned about that, Obviously,

27:25

one of the high priority parts of the game is

27:27

the ruck, right? So how quickly

27:30

the ruck is generated in both games is really

27:32

essential. So when a defence is putting pressure on

27:34

you in rugby, let's say, and you

27:36

want to take the game forward, because even if you can't

27:39

get on a soft shoulder or get a break or

27:42

get a line bend or something like that, if

27:44

you can regenerate the ball quickly from

27:47

that, the opportunity will come because they've

27:49

moved forward and then they're retreating on the next

27:51

play. And it's almost the same. That's

27:53

one thing we worked on in the league was the

27:55

ruck work. So trying to get that

27:58

ruck work right. So even the simple.

28:00

of players can generate speed for the next

28:02

play and try and catch someone out of position. Yeah,

28:04

we'll take a real quick break and be back.

28:07

I'm Andrew Rule. I try to shine a

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28:17

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or wherever you get your fix.

28:29

Talking about ruckspeed and generating momentum,

28:32

the Broncos at the moment we've seen a partnership

28:35

in Pat Carrigan and Payne Haas that

28:38

honestly could end up being one

28:40

of the best 1-2 punches as far

28:42

as the front row combination

28:45

momentum we've seen. Right now

28:47

they are the power size,

28:50

athleticism, physicality,

28:52

work rate. It's

28:54

this. So in league,

28:56

there's two options, right? You either shift

28:59

the ball for momentum and build

29:01

it, or you use power

29:03

straight runners to build your momentum, tackle one,

29:05

tackle two, and then shift on tackle three. Right

29:08

now, Adam Reynolds is going, paint

29:10

house, you go first, Patrick Carrigan,

29:12

you go second, then you give me the ball because

29:14

they are just skiddling defenders at the moment. But

29:18

in terms of the transition at Rugby Union,

29:20

check. If you, through your coaching

29:23

career, in terms of the one-two punch

29:25

for Australia or the other Argentinian

29:27

teams you've got now, who was the best one too?

29:29

So if I'm a fly-half in Rugby Union,

29:32

who would I want to take one play and

29:34

then the second one and then I've got a retreating

29:36

defence and I'm going to go at them? Well, if you

29:38

watched, say, the

29:41

Wallabies, like I would have watched the Wallabies

29:43

a bit, obviously, coaching with Argentina,

29:46

no, no, no, in that post

29:48

year, I won't talk about when I was there, you

29:50

would

29:50

see them play with maybe Marika

29:53

Corobetti coming off on a first-phase play,

29:55

so he's setting you up, and then you've got a goal by 10-0 at

29:58

Tupac coming around. You

30:00

can carry balls, set you up for the next one, and then

30:02

you've possibly got another guy like Karevi

30:04

who could jump into that spot. So you hit him

30:07

to try to get your go forward and stop guys

30:09

from either bouncing around

30:12

to come across to defend that same

30:14

side or send more guys over so

30:16

you can attack back the other way and create that momentum.

30:19

So there's pretty powerful runners

30:21

across the board that can set you up like that. Is

30:23

anyone matching Haas and Karevi

30:25

at the moment in the other row from the other teams? I

30:28

don't see it. Who's second or third?

30:30

So you've got, I mean, it's

30:33

Tom Lolo and

30:35

a little bit of that going on. They're not

30:37

playing as good at North Queens. I don't know

30:39

anyone who's doing the 1-2. Yeah, you've got your

30:42

hardmays and columns at the roosters a little bit.

30:44

I just, I don't see anyone.

30:47

They're clear standouts, aren't they? Well,

30:49

I'm harsh also, he's repeating.

30:51

Like they're not just going once in a set.

30:53

They're going like two and three times in a

30:55

set, him and Carrick, and then they're carrying ball,

30:58

getting off loads. Fullback's going good

31:00

too.

31:01

Walsh, he's been a

31:03

check of revelation. And Kevin's done

31:05

great. Kevin's opening up the field for Walsh,

31:07

his speed. He's been

31:09

incredible. On the weekend, every

31:11

time Reece Walsh touched the football, Sunko

31:14

lit up. Like, his ability to

31:16

go left foot in or skip to the

31:19

outside, a three-in defender

31:21

is just sitting there going, I actually don't know where you're going

31:23

to go, and that's the indecision, and he takes it. He's

31:25

just so quick. The flip side

31:27

to that is, because he's skinning

31:30

defences right now,

31:31

I think Reece Walsh probably needs to keep

31:34

an eye on some defenders coming at him. That's

31:36

all I was going to say to you, Coops. Now

31:38

teams have seen Broncos and this sort of

31:40

newer format with Reece Walsh, he's

31:43

added a little bit from what, because they started quite well last

31:45

year as well. What will the adjustment be

31:47

for teams to start saying, this is how we'll handle

31:50

Kerrigan and Haas, and this is how we'll handle

31:53

Walsh out the bat. The example is Slater.

31:56

Sladey came on the scene and was lighting

31:59

up long shi-

32:00

because of his speed and acceleration. And

32:02

a couple of teams started going, oh, OK, if you want to use

32:05

your speed, we're going to come from outside in and

32:07

you're going to have to deal with that. And that's when he had to sort of adjust

32:10

and get that quick pass away. You've like used to call

32:12

them web blocks, didn't you? Yeah. As

32:14

opposed to coming around to sweep and

32:16

taking the ball to the line, he would go directly

32:19

across, try to catch him in no means. As a second

32:21

layer full back, normally they run on a 45 degree angle.

32:24

He started running basically sort of half parallel

32:26

to the defensive line at this stage. but I

32:28

think that's the evolution.

32:30

I think Rhys Walsh is doing

32:32

a lot of really good things right now. But

32:34

yeah, defences are going to try and change their

32:36

approach on him. Check,

32:38

loved it mate. Thank you, really appreciate

32:41

it mate. We know you've just flown in so thanks for

32:43

making the effort. Appreciate it. Thanks very much. That's

32:45

all we've got time for in the Super Rugby Hour. After

32:47

the break we're going to talk about the Northern Transvaal

32:49

Blue Bulls. Stay with us.