0:00

Better than the Lego. Better than

0:02

the Lego. Matthew Johns is in position

0:04

for a long-range shot. He's with it

0:06

now, Matthew Johns. Here goes the kick

0:08

from Johns. Magic

0:11

South. Everyone's talking

0:13

about South. They've won... One

0:17

competition since 1971, you were the coach. Since

0:20

they got back into the competition, a lot of people have

0:23

been significant in building the club where they wanted to be

0:25

and where they got to, and you were one of those.

0:29

Are you surprised how

0:32

quickly things have dropped away, Madge? You know,

0:34

given halfway through last season, they were the

0:36

team to beat, and since

0:38

then, they've gone 5-21. Does

0:41

that surprise you? Yeah. I

0:43

think, Matty, the one thing I will say is that I

0:45

don't know what's going on with you at the moment, so

0:48

I guess I'm talking from my experiences of

0:51

building a whopping big organisation like South. The

0:54

biggest thing I feel, you know,

0:56

to find success, you know, in a

0:59

club, is alignment. You know, and everywhere across the

1:01

whole club needs to be aligned, you know, from

1:03

the front office, as they always talk about all

1:05

the way through. And I've got to say, through

1:07

the clubs that I've seen have

1:09

success through my coaching

1:11

career, whether it be as an assistant coach

1:13

or travelling overseas and back to South, is

1:16

that, you know, you can see a real common

1:18

theme amongst those organisations that, you

1:20

know, from the top right down to

1:22

the people looking after the change room,

1:24

to the administration, everyone just has an alignment

1:27

about the success. And you've got to make sure that you

1:29

communicate that. And I think they're the

1:31

things that I've learned over my time is

1:33

that communication across your whole organisation is so

1:35

important. Because as soon as that breaks down,

1:38

you find what you're talking about, things

1:40

can roll really fast. Matty, I'll ask

1:42

you about that, this South team, what's

1:44

been said to some big personalities there

1:46

and some big name players. But,

1:49

I mean, when you coach South, you

1:52

guys, those premiers you're with inside and leading

1:54

up to it, Matty, you've had some big

1:56

personalities, some strong personalities. And it looked like, you

1:58

know, you had Sam, of course. Burgess but

2:00

Greg Inglis, young Adam

2:02

Reynolds, Johnny Sutton, Lottie Takiri,

2:06

Tom and George Burgess, Benny Tio's

2:08

strong personality, like what

2:10

is the art form to coaching big

2:13

personalities? I've got to say to have success

2:15

you've got to have them, you've

2:17

got to have those big personalities and

2:19

I think the big thing that you've just got

2:21

to make sure you have for those

2:23

players is why they're there and

2:25

what do they want to achieve. Successful people

2:27

know you know a lot of times of

2:29

you know what needs to happen but you've

2:31

all got to be on the same path

2:34

and I think you know being able to drive those bigger

2:36

personalities for the common cause that's the

2:39

reason why you do find the big clubs

2:41

have the success because most of those clubs

2:43

they're scrutinised in certain ways or they've got

2:45

big personalities making big calls on the field

2:48

at big moments you need them and

2:50

that's that's the part of you know bringing the

2:52

team together. Now ideally you should run a football

2:54

side a little bit like the Communist Party everyone's

2:56

the same but very

2:59

hard to do like okay question I've got you

3:01

through that through that the time

3:03

you're at South's. Semi

3:05

Burgess and GI, did you coach those blokes

3:07

the same as everybody else or did you

3:10

go give those blokes a little bit more

3:12

rope? We had the same cause the common

3:14

cause but very different you

3:16

got to remember they're walking from a different part

3:18

of life different personalities

3:20

and that's the art of the coach is bringing

3:23

those different personalities together for the same cause. Did

3:26

they want the same thing? Definitely. Did they live

3:28

a different life through whether it's

3:30

family and the expectations outside?

3:32

Yeah definitely they've got different personalities you

3:34

know one's quite introverted one you know

3:36

like to get out and about so

3:38

you're treating players certainly

3:40

different but you've also got to have the expectations and

3:42

the stands around what you expect and you know

3:45

if you're aligned those players to what's expected

3:47

and they drive it that's the power of

3:49

the team. We spoke about the

3:52

really good aspect or the easy aspect from a

3:54

coach big personalities you know they bring leadership very

3:57

much discipline the other players keep people in line.

4:00

What about the aspect of big personalities, which is

4:02

natural for big personalities? We imagine they're going to

4:05

question you and they're going to challenge you. Imagine

4:07

why are we doing that? Imagine,

4:10

how did you handle that? Actually, that's

4:12

really important. I think that's the reason why you

4:14

have the big personalities and the strong leaders within

4:16

your team. You are challenging. You

4:18

need to have those challenges. You've got to remember,

4:20

they're grown men. We're

4:24

men in an environment that's, we're not teaching the

4:26

younger kids, those men are going to create the

4:28

expectations of what goes on within the organization. I

4:30

used to have a lot of solid conversations with

4:32

the boys. I actually think they were the best

4:34

moments in my coaching. They

4:37

had the understanding that I have the

4:39

same cause as what they're after. I

4:41

think that is a really good part of

4:43

the coaching. When you're coaching men at that

4:45

level and you've got to

4:48

understand their opinions and then you obviously work between it

4:50

to get to where you want to get to. I've

4:53

had many a time where we've had

4:55

players, you have real solid conversations between

4:58

each other. Solid conversations sometimes directed

5:00

at the coach. They're the important ones.

5:02

I actually reckon you've got to be comfortable to be able to do

5:04

that in our environment because

5:06

you've got to remember in an 80-minute game,

5:08

you've got split seconds. You can't dilly-dally around.

5:10

You've got to make sure that you're doing

5:12

those. When you build those at

5:15

a high expectation, that's what builds your standards,

5:17

what goes through your organizing. Sammy

5:19

Burgess, you've spoken about him. Lots

5:21

been said about Sam, particularly in

5:23

the last month. But he's

5:26

following a very similar route with his coaching

5:28

to U-Maj. In the fact that

5:30

he's gone to England, he's at Warrington, you went

5:32

to Wigan and you're going over there and you're

5:35

building your top-line profile as a

5:37

coach over in the Super League. Now

5:39

I've got an idea, like the Warrington Wolves are

5:42

flying. Had a big

5:44

win overnight against St Helens in the Challenge Cup.

5:47

If not Souths, I've got no doubt by the end

5:49

of the year, Maj, that one of the inner-world clubs

5:51

are going to bump in. What's

5:53

your advice for him? Personally, I would

5:55

say stay there. Go and learn your

5:58

trade. I think sometimes we can all... be

6:00

in a bit of a rush when we're trying

6:02

to jump into our roles and you know the

6:04

scrutiny here in Australia compared to over there it's

6:07

miles apart and I think

6:09

being over there for myself personally look

6:11

I was able to do things quietly try

6:13

things you know something's worked really well

6:16

some things didn't but at the end of the day

6:18

without the scrutiny you're able to sort of move your

6:20

way through that and build your

6:22

team so for myself I would say

6:24

Sammy you know spend a little

6:26

bit more time over there and because your time will

6:28

come you know if you're doing well especially

6:31

over there in the Super League at some stage

6:33

someone will come knocking because in some ways match

6:35

I imagine it'd be more difficult over there given

6:37

the fact that you don't have the big coaching

6:39

stuff like you've got to do a lot of

6:42

stuff yourself but what is the

6:44

difference coaching the NRL is a purely the profile and

6:46

the pressure depends

6:48

on what club you're at Matty I think how much

6:50

coaching you get to do I think that's the thing

6:52

now that's changing as a coach you know you

6:55

go to the Premier League and you talk about managers

6:57

well sometimes whatever club you may be at

6:59

you might be a manager slash coach or

7:01

coach slash manager and I think you know

7:03

when you've got a good stable club you

7:05

can become the coach and you know because

7:07

the players need your coach yeah that's it's

7:09

so important because they want

7:11

to hear what the coach needs so they can align

7:13

themselves with where they want to go and if all

7:16

of a sudden you're distracted by the the many things

7:18

that go on around yourself as a coach you can

7:20

I can be taken away and and that's that's something

7:22

there I've definitely learned over time that you've got to

7:24

get that catch on if you're the coach you know

7:27

get to your players and that's the part that got

7:29

me into the game which is the coaching yeah right

7:31

a state of origin match yeah

7:34

mate I living

7:36

in it must be for

7:39

both that's used to coaching week to week and

7:42

you get into that cycle has a feel

7:44

sitting you know basically at time so yeah

7:46

a few some of it turned twiddling your

7:48

thumbs waiting yeah yeah oh

7:51

you and I discussed it before Matty you got to make

7:53

sure you don't burn things burn burn between years too much

7:55

because so many things can change I like

7:58

everyone you sit there and you pick your time and yeah You

8:00

work out who you might have, might not have, but ultimately at the end

8:02

of the day, it'll be in the hands of when

8:04

we get there, who's available, who's

8:07

in pretty good form, making sure

8:09

that there's not too much noise around those

8:11

individuals. Because to perform and be at your

8:14

best, you've got to have a focus about

8:16

yourself. And that's, you're walking into camp for

8:18

success. And that's something there that I'm pretty

8:20

strong on about seeing high performing teams. They've

8:22

got a real, fairly focused about what they

8:25

want to achieve. And the outside noise, which

8:27

is all part of what Origin brings, that's

8:31

what makes it so great, is the

8:33

noise and the expectations. But for a player to

8:36

be able to walk in there knowing what they

8:38

need to do, that's something there that I'm looking

8:40

forward to. Now, a lot of these questions are

8:42

based on presumptions. Yes. So feel

8:44

free to knock them on the head. You've

8:48

spoken to players individually about previous campaigns,

8:51

positive stuff and these negative stuff, of

8:53

course. But what did you learn from

8:55

that match? I learned a lot, to

8:57

be honest. I feel that

9:00

I guess what I've learned is doing it my way.

9:03

You know, I've been able to spend a fair

9:05

bit of time, I guess, in the Kiwi space,

9:07

dealing with big personalities, very

9:11

strong players. So that, for

9:14

myself personally, is going to be enormous to

9:17

understand what a campaign's about. And

9:19

I think, you know, making sure that you don't

9:21

get in the way of them. You know, we've

9:23

got the crew, we've got the best of the

9:25

players, and allowing them

9:27

to open up the space to what that

9:29

team is going to be, and

9:32

how they want to play. I think they're

9:34

the little areas that are definitely going to

9:36

take forward. Let's talk about selections for a

9:38

second, Madge. And one of the things that

9:40

we've struggled with in the last few years

9:44

is the left field selection. To

9:47

pick someone and everyone goes, wow, I didn't expect that. And

9:50

then when the side gets beat or they

9:52

don't perform as expected, they get dropped

9:54

immediately. And there's been a number of those players that

9:56

have been pushed onto the scrap heap. And that has

9:58

an impact, not just on the team. that player but

10:01

the stability of the squad. So

10:03

Marge, if you're going to

10:05

pick a player from left field, there's probably, I imagine

10:08

there'll be a few guys you've got in your mind,

10:10

what are you looking for from

10:12

those players in the next couple of

10:14

months so that you know they're

10:16

ready, that you'll pick them. I want

10:18

to see them consistently play at, whether

10:21

it's an 8 or a 9 out of 10,

10:23

not dipping down to a 4 and jumping around

10:25

from a performance point of view. I want to

10:27

see consistency of just performance, albeit that

10:29

sometimes their teams might go up and down, but

10:33

that individual being able to do their role and

10:35

play their part for their team. Sometimes

10:37

you can look at a player and go, well

10:39

he might be right, but origin's another

10:42

step as we both know. The

10:44

experience of what I've got from

10:47

the international space is that some

10:49

players can handle that level and some players can't. So

10:51

I want to see the consistency of being able to

10:53

handle that level and no doubt there'll be probably a

10:55

bit of scrutiny or noise out about those players over

10:57

the next couple of months about whether they're in or

10:59

out. How do you handle it? Because

11:02

that's what it takes to come into the

11:04

arena. I'm

11:06

Andrew Rule, the host of the podcast

11:08

on life and crimes. Here are some

11:10

of the things that we've been talking

11:12

about the last few weeks. The

11:15

brutal truth is that when you start looking

11:17

at it, they always kill or injure a

11:19

lot more than each other. A

11:22

professional hitman used to be a professional

11:24

hitman. Evil strikes in

11:27

all forms but particularly

11:29

as stupidity. Life

11:31

and crimes is available wherever

11:33

you get your podcasts. You've

11:38

said it once before that you're really keen

11:40

on stability in a squad. When you pick

11:42

a squad, stick with it and

11:44

back yourself up and the players will get it right

11:46

and you'll get it right as far as how you

11:48

want to play the kiwis. Because that's really interesting. In

11:50

the first game you played the Pacific Championships against the

11:52

Aussies. The side struggled.

11:55

Everyone was expecting mass changes but you stayed

11:58

the course and you were awarded At the end. Yeah,

12:01

yeah. Well, over the six years that I spent

12:03

with the Kiwis to watch that team grow over

12:06

periods of time was sticking solid with your pliers,

12:08

building the trust amongst the pliers. So

12:10

that's obviously a very important part of building

12:12

a proper end team. You know,

12:14

and I definitely had in our first

12:16

game against Australia there, plenty of people tapped me

12:18

on the shoulder saying, mate, make the change, do

12:21

this, do that. But honestly,

12:23

I had it in my gut and I went with my gut feel. And

12:26

I guess that comes back to the years of watching

12:28

footy and coaching. But

12:30

I'll know at the time that it's right, because

12:33

if I pick a player, they're going to be right. That's

12:36

one thing that I have

12:38

learned. And what paid huge

12:40

dividends in that test series

12:42

against Australia is that we played the same team.

12:44

And I talk about someone like a Kieran Foren.

12:47

And I do speak about him quite

12:49

publicly about what he did for us in

12:52

that campaign. He would have chopped

12:54

up both his arms and legs to play for

12:56

New Zealand. That's the type of player. And

12:58

he played nine. He's never played nine in

13:00

his life. So it just goes to show

13:02

what you're capable of. But

13:04

he's a player that can step up to that arena.

13:06

And obviously, I'm just using those examples for the players

13:08

that I'm trying to identify now for New

13:11

South Wales. It's interesting you save a gut feel match. And

13:15

so you're going

13:17

to need a bit of that gut feel when it comes

13:19

to, I mean, our red hot position is full back. And

13:24

the most obvious one is what I expect in a couple

13:26

of weeks, we'll come back and be firing. But

13:29

you might see him as a centre. We'll wait

13:31

for a second. But the Edwards

13:34

Tedesco, Dylan Edwards Tedesco is a really red hot

13:36

one. There's going to be people are going to

13:38

be all eyes trained on who you're going to

13:40

pick. In the Kiwi

13:42

side, you had Joey Manu, who's breaking records

13:44

as a full back, but you stuck with

13:46

Charnes as a full back. Why?

13:50

I've obviously got the no chance and

13:52

you build that trust with a player. And

13:55

I've said you before, if I pick a player,

13:57

I trust them. I know that they're going to do

13:59

the job for me. and now I know they're going to

14:01

do a job for the team. So it's getting to know

14:03

the players and it's obviously knowing that I'm

14:05

out and about trying to get to know these

14:07

players. And I think that's very important because

14:10

you've got to remember, you don't have a lot

14:12

of time with a player in the Origin Round.

14:14

You've got basically three by eight days campaign. So

14:16

it's a real short period of time. So

14:19

getting to know the players, I've really enjoyed that part

14:21

of it over the last couple of

14:23

months. And now you go out and watch

14:25

footy and I get to sit out on the hill just

14:28

watch and just watching for all the

14:30

little movements. And when the time comes, I'll know

14:32

exactly what I'm after. Have

14:34

you got any gut feel on the fullback at the

14:36

moment, Matt? No, Matty. No, yeah, no. I have got

14:39

a gut feel, but I'm looking at two. Okay, question

14:41

then. And

14:43

if Latrell

14:46

is fit and firing, do you see him as the

14:48

centre? I don't want to create any noise around that.

14:50

I just want to see Latrell go back and play

14:52

good footy. Because I said before, you've

14:54

got to have a clear mind and be able to play at

14:56

the big arena. And we

14:59

all know the talent that he is, but having

15:01

a clear mind and just playing and

15:04

getting into that head space, that'll

15:06

sort itself out over the next couple of months. I don't

15:09

want to be presumptuous, but I'm

15:11

thinking nice and clear, it's going to be a crucial

15:13

bloke in your campaign. How are you feeling about the

15:15

hamstring? Are you a bit concerned about the hamstring at

15:17

the moment? Given the length of Tom's head and the hill?

15:19

I spoke to him a couple of weeks ago and he's

15:21

on track, I think. But

15:24

it's like you said, you've got to make sure

15:26

that people are available down the track because you

15:28

never know. But talking with nice,

15:30

it's high level that. It's

15:32

a big series coming up for it. Yeah,

15:35

it is. And look, we've spoken about that

15:37

and he knows that himself.

15:39

He's been around long enough and he knows what

15:41

he can do in that arena. I

15:44

think building the belief over the period

15:47

of time that he's been playing now, I think

15:49

he's well and truly understands what

15:51

he wants with the Blues. Six

15:54

is another interesting one. Because you had

15:56

Cody, was Cody Meade on the matching game through the

15:58

last year? He was, yeah. He was merely a match. Not

16:01

in great form at the moment, of course. You

16:03

got Mitch Moses who's got the injury. You got

16:06

Luwai who was dropped last year. You

16:08

got Niko controversy last year. He was dropped

16:10

and not really given up or not given

16:13

a proper opportunity. Any

16:16

gut feel there? I've

16:18

definitely got a gut feel around that one, Matty. Yeah, yeah. This

16:20

next two months will be a

16:22

telling factor for those boys. Yeah, gotcha. Yeah, and

16:25

as I said, I've been out and I'm watching the

16:27

boys and yeah, I've seen, a

16:30

number of those guys that you mentioned play and

16:33

they can't handle it, but it's just at the point how

16:36

they're travelling it once they step into camp and

16:39

where they go. You've been involved a lot of high pressure environments,

16:42

Matty. Even in England, you know, going

16:44

in there with a lot of expectations around that Wigan Club.

16:46

Huge expectation around South Sydney.

16:49

Big club, winner comp there. Do you think this

16:51

is another level? I mean,

16:53

you know what we're like in New South

16:55

Wales. We generally don't row in the same

16:58

direction. And if

17:00

you're beaten, there's gonna be

17:02

natural criticism. Does that add

17:04

another layer of pressure, Matty? It's

17:07

part of the reason why I wanna do it, Matty. I

17:09

actually enjoy moving towards those

17:12

spaces. It is, of

17:14

course it is. That's part of the,

17:16

but obviously it's all result driven and everyone

17:18

wants to win and that's why we love

17:20

it so much. So

17:22

I'm actually really looking forward to feeling that, obviously

17:25

faced it in many different ways across the

17:27

game, but this will be next level, as

17:29

you know. We've got nine million here in

17:31

New South Wales wanting their team to

17:33

be successful. And look, it has had a period

17:36

of time where it's gone up and down. So it's being

17:38

able to build a foundation from where I'd like to be

17:40

able to try and, you know, talking

17:43

to all the old boys. So that's pretty special in itself.

17:46

If the guys that have had success, you know, you've

17:48

gotta remember there's been success there over

17:51

longer periods of time. You know, it's just a

17:53

matter of connecting with

17:55

that now and moving towards that space. Coach

17:58

and staff match, who you got? Yeah, Johnny. I think you've got

18:00

the cat right, Brett White and Matty King, three

18:02

greats of the origin jersey. All

18:04

had wins along the way and understand what

18:06

it feels like to be in that winning

18:08

space. What bludged bloke bring?

18:11

Why did you pick those three guys? Well, Carter, he's

18:14

a real calming sort of figure, I guess, a great

18:16

guy. Been in the

18:18

arena, he's had experience coaching and out with different

18:20

coaches, which I think is going to be really

18:22

valuable. But also too, his connection with the older

18:24

boys, or be as

18:26

Whitey and Kingy have as well. The

18:28

thing I like about all three of them, they understand what the

18:31

players are feeling right now and how you prepare.

18:33

I think preparation to be able to go into

18:35

your biggest game, you need to get it right.

18:38

And that's something there that I feel that those three are

18:40

definitely going to bring. It's Blue

18:42

Mountains match. What's

18:45

moving away from Kuji? Has it got more to do with

18:47

Kuji in the distractions or more to do with the

18:50

Blue Mountains? No, I didn't

18:52

want to just get the boys together. I

18:54

did spend a fair bit of time sort of

18:56

getting around New South Wales and

18:59

looking at where I could take the players. And

19:01

obviously found a little place up there at the Blue

19:03

Mountains, which would be excellent for the boys to get

19:06

together. And there's various things

19:08

that they can do when they're away from

19:10

footy and whether it's golf and all

19:13

the other things. Because I think the connection

19:15

of the teams are very important. The

19:17

players themselves, the more time you spend

19:19

together, that's what makes this space. Let's

19:22

talk about the competition. Let's move away from our argument for a

19:24

second. We've talked about

19:26

Joey Marney before. That performance against the Knights,

19:28

unbelievable. Wouldn't surprise you if you've coached him.

19:33

There's that conundrum always with Teddy

19:35

at Fullback. What should Joey play

19:38

there? Every time he plays

19:40

Fullback, he puts that much into his performance match.

19:42

I just wonder if you had him there full

19:44

time, whether he'd burn out. I

19:47

think he'd be an excellent Fullback officer

19:49

there, ever since I've had him

19:52

consistently. And I guess people could

19:54

look at it, he might burn out because he puts that much

19:56

effort. But if you learn how to do that week in, week

19:58

out, that becomes who you are. and Joey

20:00

do that on multiple times. So there's no doubt

20:02

that Joey could do it. He's an incredible player.

20:05

I mean, one of the most layback blokes that you see off

20:07

the field, and then you go and see him

20:09

punch out 300 plus meters, set

20:12

up tries, create tries or score

20:14

tries. He's a

20:16

special talent, but I think if Joey

20:19

was to spend more time there as a fullback, I

20:21

think that it suited him. Luke

20:24

Brooks, you must be happy

20:26

for Brooks. He had coached him there. Brooks, he's

20:29

had a very difficult career. Too

20:32

much responsibility, too much pressure, too

20:34

much criticism as a young player.

20:37

Now he's gone to Manly and he hasn't got all

20:39

that pressure on him and you're seeing, he's

20:42

been playing some great football. It's awesome actually

20:44

to see Brooks here. I mean, albeit

20:47

all pressures that we've both had on various times

20:49

throughout our time there at West Tigers, to

20:51

see the smile on his face now, it's so

20:54

good to see. It's

20:56

amazing once you've just got other players

20:58

around you just to relieve that expectation

21:01

of what half has to do. And

21:03

now he's just, we're seeing the recruit,

21:05

Brooksie. And I think we all saw that years

21:07

and years ago, but the various pressures

21:09

slowly jump on top of you and it

21:11

sits on your shoulders, but now

21:14

he's just got a specific role. He can just have

21:16

a look up, see whether or not it's a three

21:18

or a four on three or a big middle trial

21:20

around the corner and I go, right, I've gotcha. And

21:23

when you've got someone like Tommy Treboy, which

21:26

out the back is basically just talking. Yeah,

21:28

that does help you. And then, you

21:30

know, Daley's doing his thing on the other side

21:32

of the field, but it's really nice to see

21:34

a player who I gotta say, he got hammered.

21:38

Like I'm just so over the moon

21:40

for him. Yeah, and you know, the

21:42

thing about it is, you know, as a lot of people go, oh, you know,

21:44

but he's paywarped with it. That's by the by,

21:46

you know what I mean? Like, you know, wouldn't that, as a lot of

21:48

people go, oh, you know, but he's paywarped with it. That's

21:50

by the by, you know what I mean? Like, you know, wouldn't ever

21:52

know what you do in life. You know,

21:54

the fact that you get paid will take nothing

21:57

away from the pressure and what the criticism does

21:59

here. Oh, yeah. I mean, take

22:01

that aside, what I saw Brookesy have

22:03

to deal with, he's a strong human

22:05

being. I've got to say, everyone talks

22:07

about your mental health these days. Get

22:10

a dose of Brookesy. He could

22:12

handle many things that have been thrown at him

22:14

and now still would be flying at the level

22:16

he's at. I just really wish him all the

22:19

best now. I'm

22:21

Andrew Rule, the host of the podcast,

22:23

A Life in Crimes. There are some

22:25

of the things that we've been talking

22:28

about the last few weeks. The

22:30

brutal truth is that when you start looking

22:32

at it, they always kill or injure a

22:35

lot more than each other. A

22:37

professional hitman used to be a professional

22:39

hitman. Evil strikes in

22:42

all forms but particularly as stupidity.

22:46

Life in Crimes is available

22:48

wherever you get your podcasts.

22:52

You've had a great link with the Kuwis, the

22:55

Warriors match. It might

22:58

sound a little bit absurd but I just thought as

23:01

far as them winning the competition, I

23:04

was more convinced they can by their draw

23:06

against Manly than some of their better performances

23:08

because watching their game, they were really off

23:11

their game, the Warriors. You're watching

23:13

and you're going, well, today's

23:15

not going to be their day dropping balls. They're

23:17

out of sync, they're out of rhythm but they

23:19

found a way to get the point. That's

23:22

when you see, you know, there's a bit of sense

23:24

of destiny and there's a title that could be a

23:26

title winning season when you can do that. The

23:30

habits that you form throughout a season are the ones that come out at

23:32

the other end. When

23:35

you get faced with a bit of a challenge

23:37

like they did on the weekend, I'm like you.

23:39

That's a great lesson for them later on that

23:41

you know you can get through those games. It's

23:43

when like a team goes into a

23:45

golden point and you take the win

23:47

or you get the, you all walk

23:49

away with one point, that's going to

23:51

be so valuable to them. But the

23:53

experience of playing bad and still getting

23:55

the result, that builds within

23:57

your team and your belief of

23:59

how. that team's going to develop and I definitely see them at

24:01

the other end of the comp. What

24:04

about Rugby League in New Zealand at the moment, Matt? You're

24:07

in the thick of it. It's

24:09

incredible. All time high, you would say?

24:12

Yeah, I really hope the game captures

24:14

that space now. It's a real good

24:16

time for the game itself to spread

24:18

its wings. And I know in New

24:20

Zealand, Rugby League and the Warriors, they're

24:22

doing a lot of work in the

24:24

background to develop the flow

24:26

and effect. We capitalise

24:28

on that. The Raiders, you

24:30

and the coaching staff last year, having

24:32

a hell of a season. Myself

24:34

and Coops have had this yarn

24:37

here. They don't have an identity problem. They

24:39

know exactly what sort of side they've got

24:41

to be. I tell you who's

24:43

really impressed, Ben, he pulled off a play right

24:45

at the back end of the game, Young, Ethan,

24:48

Strange. Boy,

24:50

he's coming on leaps and bounds. He is. Well,

24:53

he's got good people around him. Big pupper and

24:55

taps and then you've got Jamal. I think that's

24:57

the art for these young kids to come in

24:59

and just feel the comfort of being able to

25:01

play. And yet we're seeing how Wiesen

25:03

can play now because he's probably not having to overthink.

25:06

He's in there just playing a real simple role, but

25:08

also too, like you said, the identity of the team.

25:11

Tough gritty time. And Campbell, I've been there

25:13

since the 90s. I

25:16

think their personality is just showing right

25:18

now that they're just a

25:20

real team at the moment. Cowboys

25:22

match. Finally,

25:24

when you talk about, you know, all the smoke

25:27

is I love watching the Cowboys play. And as

25:29

we had we had we

25:32

had Scottie drink water and Tommy Deaton on the show

25:34

Sunday night. They're just such I loved.

25:36

I love them both as players.

25:38

I think Deaton are going to develop

25:40

into amazing captain. But they're a frustrating

25:42

side given the fact that

25:45

they open the open the

25:47

field up so beautifully with the football.

25:49

But defensively, they can't shut it. I

25:52

we had discussion before about

25:55

certainly the best side I've played against for the 94

25:57

Raiders and they could open the field

25:59

up. like no other side, but then when they handed the ball

26:01

back to you, they beat the shit out

26:04

of you. And that's, I think,

26:06

where the Cowboys are lacking. Just that I

26:08

want to see some nil score lines. Well,

26:10

it's the ability of your medals and how

26:12

the medal can move. I think that's something

26:14

there that people don't really see. I mean,

26:16

I use someone like Fisher Harrison Moses Liotta.

26:19

The way they can move defensively to be able to

26:21

put themselves in a tackle, but then get back in

26:23

the line, it fills the line. So

26:25

that then gives you the ability to be able to thicken

26:27

up your defensive line to stop what's coming. What

26:29

about those blokes? Yeah. Fisher

26:31

Harrison. Very special individuals. Fisher

26:34

Harris, obviously, you know, to

26:37

spend a period of time with him over the

26:39

years to watch him develop. I've never

26:41

seen a bloke work harder than James Fisher Harris. You

26:45

can understand why they're getting rewarded. The

26:48

accolades and the success there at St. Penrith,

26:50

if they're anything like James Fisher Harris or

26:52

Moses Liotta, two blokes that just

26:54

continually worked at their game religiously.

26:58

We would finish training and they'd be there for an hour after. And

27:01

you'd probably see them in their day off where they'd probably duck down

27:03

the park and go and do a few extras. And

27:06

you understand why the teams that are successful are the ones

27:08

that work the hardest. And everyone goes, well, what's that mean?

27:11

Well, they put time into their game. And

27:14

to see those two and just simple

27:16

little foot patternings, like the

27:19

simplest drills you'd look at and you go, well,

27:21

there's a reason why they get in and out

27:23

of line speed quick. Or they get back to

27:25

the line, they get up and they're

27:28

coming hard for their teammates. Because

27:30

you talk about defence. You've got to have a thick

27:32

line to be able to be a strong defensive team.

27:34

And if you're not back in the line, well, you're

27:36

going to create space. And that's what they pride themselves

27:38

on about the efforts of what they do there. Fisher

27:42

Harris's captain, was he a big talker? No.

27:45

No. But if he looked at you, you'd

27:48

do whatever it took. Don't

27:50

worry. Are you the best team match?

27:52

He was an incredible leader through

27:55

that period. And he's

27:57

always wanted to... I

28:01

can't say this, I guess, but he always wanted to

28:03

lead the Kiwis. And that was from three years

28:05

ago. So it was interesting how I could

28:07

sort of see it evolving over periods of time. And

28:09

then when I gave it to him, you could just

28:11

see he just grabbed it. And

28:14

he's sensational for that group. And the best

28:16

thing about it is just made himself available

28:18

for the Blues. Yeah. Madge. Hey,

28:21

good luck, mate. Good on you, buddy.