0:00

One day, my father went out with Huey

0:02

Newton after a Black Panther event,

0:05

and just like any regular drive, they

0:07

got pulled over by the cops. And

0:09

just like today, that pullover

0:11

was just supposed to be a regular check, and it went way

0:14

left. So as Huey

0:16

Newton is talking to the cop, they're outside,

0:19

and my father's on the other side about to

0:21

be handcuffed as well, of course, for no

0:23

apparent reason. There was nothing. And then

0:25

there was a shoving shooting match. Huey

0:27

Newton ends

0:28

up being shot, and my dad

0:30

somehow assists him in that

0:32

matter, gets away from the cops, and he drives

0:34

him to the hospital. That's a very

0:37

pivotal moment in the Black Panther Party,

0:39

because they were always trying to take Huey

0:42

Newton down, period. And

0:44

he almost died because of the gunshot

0:46

wounds. So my dad ended up saving Huey

0:48

Newton's life, but that also put my

0:50

dad in danger as well.

1:07

This is the Maverick Show, where

1:09

you'll meet today's most interesting location-independent

1:12

entrepreneurs and world travelers,

1:15

and learn the strategies and tactics they

1:17

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1:20

your host, Matt Bowles.

1:22

Hey, everybody. It's Matt Bowles. Welcome

1:25

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1:27

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2:07

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2:33

again, that's themaverickshow.com

2:37

slash newsletter. And now let's

2:40

get in to the episode.

2:44

My guest today is Jintamu Jen

2:47

McKinney. She is an activist,

2:50

author, film director, certified

2:52

mental health coach, and the founder

2:55

of Keep Calm, Bring Your Carry On,

2:57

a therapeutic mental wellness company

2:59

that primarily serves digital nomads

3:01

of color through telehealth coaching.

3:04

Jen was born into politics, philanthropy,

3:07

and volunteerism. Being the daughter of

3:09

the late Jean Allen McKinney, a

3:11

Black Panther member and civil rights activist,

3:14

she began to follow in her father's footsteps

3:16

by letting her voice be heard to make changes

3:19

in her community and abroad.

3:21

Following her mother's battle with mental illness,

3:24

Jen became a mental health advocate

3:26

and founded Awareness After Dark,

3:29

a nonprofit organization that focuses

3:31

on erasing the stigma associated

3:34

with mental health in the African-American

3:36

community. She received the 40 Under 40

3:38

Award from the County of Los

3:40

Angeles for her mental health awareness

3:42

advocacy in the African-American community.

3:45

She also directed and produced

3:47

an award-winning documentary film called

3:50

Let's Get Mental that was featured at

3:52

the Pan-African Film Festival in

3:54

Cannes, France. Jen is also

3:56

the author of the best-selling book, Keep

3:59

Calm, Bring Yourself Together. carry on the ultimate

4:01

self-care guide for travelers of color, which

4:04

is also accompanied by a workbook and

4:06

journal combining her passions for mental

4:08

health, activism, and adventure, and

4:10

featuring over 50 travel

4:12

influencers and experts of color.

4:15

Jen, welcome to the show.

4:18

Thank you. Thank you. I am so excited

4:20

to have you here. You and I know so many people

4:23

in common. It was only a matter of time

4:25

until this interview took place. And

4:27

unfortunately, we're not in person today

4:29

doing this, but let's just set the scene

4:31

and talk about where we are both based

4:34

and recording this from today. I am actually

4:37

in the Blue Ridge Mountains of Asheville,

4:40

North Carolina on the East Coast

4:42

of the United States today. And where

4:44

are you?

4:45

My home base is actually Cape Town, South

4:47

Africa, but I am currently in Ghana.

4:49

I love that I was in

4:52

both Cape Town and Ghana over

4:54

the last six months. I

4:56

spent the end of

4:58

December and New Year's in Ghana

5:01

this year, which is one of the

5:03

most epic parties I have ever

5:05

been to in my life. I had come initially

5:08

to Accra for about a month in 2019. My

5:11

first time in West Africa, I went through Nigeria and

5:13

Ghana and the Ivory Coast and Senegal. And

5:15

when I was in Ghana, it was amazing

5:17

because Ghana is always amazing. But people

5:19

were like, yo, you got to come back in

5:22

December and see how we roll

5:24

then. So I did. I

5:27

was here from December as well. That's amazing.

5:30

So, okay. So for people that have never been to

5:32

Ghana and they've never been in December,

5:34

what is it like? When you get

5:36

there, the vibe and the people and the

5:39

joy, the happiness, the hype and everything,

5:42

just people just wanting to get to

5:44

know each other, enjoy themselves, have a good

5:46

time, enjoy the culture, enjoy the food, enjoy

5:48

the music. That's really what it's all about.

5:50

I would say Ghana really is a

5:53

vibe. Definitely, definitely a vibe. They don't

5:55

sleep.

5:55

You're someplace and it's not

5:57

even about clubbing or anything. It's just really about.

5:59

about enjoying the environment, enjoying

6:02

meeting new people. Everyone is very

6:04

open and friendly. Everybody

6:06

talks. Everyone has a story. I

6:09

remember meeting people on a plane and just connecting

6:11

with people on a plane, coming to Ghana, and now

6:13

we're your besties now.

6:14

Yeah, it was amazing. I was there

6:16

around this time. I was there

6:19

in July of 2019, and

6:22

it was absolutely lit at

6:25

that time. I mean, I can remember just going to

6:27

the Sunday party on Labadi Beach,

6:29

and there just being thousands of people

6:31

that just come out for this beach party. It's not a festival.

6:34

It's not a holiday. It's just a Sunday. And I was

6:36

like, if this is July, what

6:38

must December be like? And December was very

6:41

interesting because on the one hand,

6:43

there's a lot of people that come from outside

6:45

of Ghana. I mean, like the whole

6:48

African diaspora descends on

6:50

Ghana. And it's a very cool vibe because

6:52

the DJs at the parties know exactly

6:55

who's there. So they're like playing a

6:57

hip hop song from Atlanta, and they're shouting out

6:59

Atlanta, or they're playing a hip hop song

7:01

from New York, and they're shouting out New York, and they're shouting

7:04

out black fraternities and sororities. I

7:06

mean, they know exactly who's there, but then

7:08

they're also shouting out Nigeria, they're shouting

7:10

out South Africa, they're shouting out London. It's

7:12

very multicultural. When

7:14

it comes to the festivals and environments

7:16

and stuff like that, you actually be really surprised.

7:19

They bring a lot of tourism from

7:21

everywhere. And the people that

7:23

live in Ghana, there's also a diverse

7:26

range of people that live in Ghana. Like one of the most

7:28

incredible gems from

7:30

my first trip to Ghana that I still remember

7:33

is I went to one of the best Indian

7:35

restaurants. I've been to anywhere

7:38

in the world is in Accra. I'll give

7:40

it a shout out, it's called Heritage. If you haven't

7:42

been there, Jen, you should definitely

7:45

roll. We're

7:45

actually supposed to go to an Ethiopian

7:48

restaurant, I think tomorrow night or next

7:50

week. And we're at the place I went today

7:52

for lunch

7:53

called Sunshine Salad Bars, actually

7:55

have Indian as well. So there's some cool,

7:58

although I'm very critical about Mexican food.

7:59

I do love Castillo's out here. So

8:02

that's the one thing I do like about Ghana

8:04

that they do have a variety,

8:06

not as much as Cape Town, but they do

8:08

have a really solid variety of diverse

8:11

culture, ethnic foods.

8:13

Yeah. And the Ghanaian food is incredible

8:16

in and of itself. Try the jollof rice

8:18

and thank me later. It is really, really

8:20

incredible if you haven't had Ghanaian food for sure.

8:23

But tell me a little bit about Cape Town and

8:25

why you connected so much with

8:27

that city, chose to make it your base. What do you

8:30

love about Cape Town? Some people are probably going to be

8:32

like,

8:32

but what about apartheid and

8:34

the racism and all that stuff? Okay.

8:36

Besides that, you will have those vibes, but

8:39

however, you will have a lot of Cali

8:41

vibes there. The landscaping itself,

8:43

if you're a person that

8:45

likes a lot of mother nature, you

8:47

like wine farms, connecting

8:49

with people. Again, the restaurants, the food

8:51

is amazing. Affordability. South

8:53

Africa is very extremely affordable.

8:56

A lot of diversity

8:57

when it comes to things to do and

8:59

the vibe there is

9:00

really good as well. I actually prefer

9:03

Cape Town over Johannesburg,

9:04

but I like Johannesburg because they do have a vibe.

9:06

But if you want a little bit more freedom, be able to do

9:08

what you want to do, go where you want to go,

9:10

have your cell phone out, have your purse out and just walk

9:12

and run down on the Paminar Beach, whatever Cape

9:14

Town is for sure. You're getting a lot of luxury

9:17

for half the price. So if

9:19

you want that Cali Miami

9:21

feel, but more African

9:24

vibe to it and just the mother nature

9:26

side and just being tuned with

9:28

that, the scenery itself, if

9:30

you like being grounded and one

9:33

with yourself. So definitely a place to

9:35

just wuss. Yeah. I tell

9:37

people it is for me of

9:39

the places that

9:40

I have been the most naturally

9:43

beautiful, stunning city

9:45

I have ever been to. And the only

9:47

exception to that is Rio de Janeiro in Brazil,

9:50

but other than Rio, it is

9:52

just stunningly beautiful to

9:54

be there. But yeah, you're also a California

9:57

girl. So that does make sense because I tell

9:59

people this.

9:59

If you're going to go to Cape Town or if you're going

10:02

to go to Rio, there's definitely some of

10:04

that California beach vibe.

10:06

And then when you go inland and you

10:08

go to Johannesburg in South Africa, or you

10:10

go to Sao Paulo in Brazil, there's all of a sudden

10:12

this more New York city style vibe. Yeah.

10:15

Because when you go to the CBD

10:17

part of Cape Town, you can

10:19

get that little, I would say San Francisco,

10:21

New York

10:22

vibe with the restaurants, houses

10:24

open out, walking, you

10:25

can go from here. You don't like

10:28

to, I would say club hop or a lot

10:30

of the museums, a lot of art. You

10:32

know, Africa period is very artsy and the culture

10:35

very diffused. So the vibe with the arts,

10:38

they have, we call it first Thursdays

10:40

where everybody just goes out. You

10:42

don't need no car. Everybody just comes out to the

10:44

street and just go to different restaurants, go to different museums,

10:47

art galleries, just wine, there's drinks

10:49

flowing. If you don't drink, there's something for you. And

10:51

it's just a vibe. And it's just people just being

10:53

out in the streets. It's all about community

10:56

and culture and just connecting

10:58

with people, loving one another and experiencing

11:01

each other. So that's one thing I really love about

11:03

Cape Town. And then like all the open

11:05

mics and the music, Cape Town has

11:07

a lot of local artists that probably

11:10

don't get a lot of hype as they

11:12

should, but feel like it's coming. I really wish

11:14

there was more festivals out in Cape Town because

11:16

they deserve that. There's a lot of local artists

11:18

that are very, like my friend Mizzou, very

11:20

amazing. There's so many entrepreneurs

11:23

out there doing their thing. And I've

11:25

made a lot of amazing friends out there. Shout

11:28

out to my running group, Miss Pien,

11:29

Miss Shaw, but it's cold right now. So

11:31

I see you on September. Word. Yeah.

11:34

The art scene is really dope, both in terms

11:36

of the gallery art scene. Like first Thursday, I

11:38

was just at that in March, I

11:40

think was the last time I was there. In Cape Town,

11:43

when it got all the art galleries open, totally

11:45

incredible. You're just walking through, drinking wine, hanging

11:47

out. And then the street art scene in

11:50

communities like Salt River and spots

11:52

like that up in Woodstock and some of those places. The

11:55

street art scene is banging. And

11:57

then yeah, the music and the party scene, I mean, I tell

11:59

people

11:59

that...

11:59

that the best party is the

12:02

RANS party on Sunday in Kailisha

12:04

Township. If you're looking for the best

12:06

party in Cape Town, that's the best party in Cape

12:08

Town. Yeah,

12:09

my area is kind of like more CBD,

12:12

C-Point area. I love Mojo's,

12:15

I love Open Wine, going to the local acts

12:17

and some other chill places that have open

12:20

acts and stuff like that. All right, Jen, at

12:22

this point, I wanna go back and talk

12:24

a little bit about your story

12:26

and your journey to becoming

12:29

this digital nomad world

12:31

traveler that you are today. And I think

12:33

a great place to start would just be to

12:36

go all the way back and talk

12:38

a little bit about your father

12:41

who was an activist

12:43

with the Black Panther Party,

12:44

civil rights activist. Maybe tell

12:46

a little bit about his story. And just

12:48

for folks, for context, we have listeners in

12:50

like 185 countries and so not

12:53

everyone is gonna be familiar with the history of the

12:55

Black Panthers and stuff. So if you wanna share a little

12:57

bit of historical context and then share

12:59

a little bit about your dad's story and then

13:02

talk about where you were born and how you came up.

13:04

I am the child of Jean Ella McKinney, who

13:07

is a very infamous member of the

13:09

Black Panther Party, the original Black Panther

13:11

Party that started in Oakland, California

13:14

at Cal Berkeley campus, actually. So

13:16

you gotta understand that Black folks were brought

13:18

to America and we had to gain

13:21

our rights. We had to gain rights to

13:23

re-white, walk, have lots of freedoms.

13:26

We didn't want Black people to have equal

13:27

rights. And then you had the Ku Klux

13:29

Klan, you had police officers

13:32

beating, not just Black people, but other

13:34

ethnicities of color as well. So

13:36

when

13:37

that happened, you got the MLK, you

13:39

got the Malcolm X, you got the Rosa Parks.

13:41

So do not hold civil rights movement. It was

13:43

all just a fight just to have equal rights, just

13:46

to the table. So the Black Panther Party

13:48

was all about gaining access to freedom,

13:50

having the same rights as our white brothers

13:52

and sisters, such as health food programs,

13:56

having the right to carry arms like white people did. It's

13:58

one of those things where you just get... fed up. Fed up

14:00

you're tired and when you have

14:03

that, when you're backed up against the wall, what

14:05

else is there to lose? So at that point

14:07

it was created by Huey Newton and Bobby

14:09

Sill. So how he

14:11

got started in the beginning of the

14:13

whole Black Panther Party where they were recruiting

14:15

and doing all these things during fundraising, feeding

14:18

children because at that time there was

14:20

no food programs for children

14:23

as far as going to school. They just went to school hungry

14:25

or just didn't have the proper nutrition.

14:28

So they did all these things and

14:30

they also were for women having

14:33

rights as well, holding arms as well.

14:35

So that's we got the Angela Davis and

14:37

Phoebe Shakur involved, Tupac's

14:40

mother. So with that, they inspired

14:42

the people, anyone to give the power back

14:44

to the people, power to the people, not

14:46

government that was not being

14:48

fair with everyone. So they're

14:50

doing all these things and they're carrying arms

14:53

because they know their rights. They were very

14:55

well educated and the government

14:57

tried to disassemble the Black Panther

15:00

Party anyway, anyhow.

15:02

And back then that was through drugs

15:04

and maybe putting people against each other, just conquer

15:07

and divide. We got to divide them up because they're too

15:09

strong. You can't handle it. And so one

15:11

day my father went out with

15:12

Huey Newton after a Black Panther event.

15:15

And just like any regular drive, they

15:18

got pulled over by the cops. And

15:20

just like today that pull over

15:22

was just supposed to be a regular check and then went

15:24

way left. So as Huey

15:27

Newton is talking to the cop, they're outside

15:29

and my father's on the other side about to

15:32

be handcuffed as well. Of course, for no

15:34

apparent reason, there was nothing. And then

15:36

there was a shoving shooting match. The

15:38

thing is so relevant today.

15:40

How many times do we see that where it's

15:43

goals just going to be a regular pullover, stop,

15:45

check, whatever, letting the person go. And then it ends up to

15:47

be in a shove match, whatever being the

15:50

cop being aggressive. And then a gun

15:52

goes off. Huey Newton ends up being

15:54

shot. And my dad somehow

15:57

assists him in that matter. It gets

15:59

away from the cops. and he drives him to

16:01

the hospital. That's a very pivotal

16:03

moment in the Black Panther Party because

16:06

they were always trying to take Huey Newton

16:08

down, period. And he almost

16:11

died because of the gunshot wounds. So

16:13

my dad ended up saving Huey Newton's life, but

16:15

that also put my dad in danger as

16:18

well. So story goes,

16:20

I know a lot, but I know a little for safety

16:23

reasons. I'll put it that way. My

16:25

dad will never disclose certain things to me

16:27

just for my safety. And that's just

16:29

that. But if you watch the movie

16:31

Panther, you'll see that he pretty

16:34

much went in hiding, got protection

16:36

and got lured up and Huey

16:39

Newton was on trial. The

16:40

cop, he was dead. So now he got

16:42

somebody on trial for murder, but you got another eyewitness

16:45

and that was my dad. And he pretty much pleaded

16:47

the fifth, which took the blame or

16:50

suspected blame off of Huey

16:52

Newton. And then trial was dismissed.

16:55

Yeah. Super, super significant

16:57

piece of American history. And people can

16:59

go and read more about that and

17:01

Google more about that. And if they're interested

17:04

in the larger experience as well,

17:06

there's been additional films that have come out

17:08

since we just had recently

17:10

the Judas and the Black Messiah film,

17:12

which won a bunch of awards, which was

17:14

about the counterintelligence program

17:16

called Cohen Telpro that you mentioned in terms

17:19

of the FBI's attempt to destroy

17:21

the Black Panther party, which ranged

17:23

from everything from these disinformation

17:25

campaigns all the way up to being involved with

17:28

the assassination of Fred Hampton

17:30

in Chicago, the Black Panther leader. And so

17:32

there's a lot of information about this stuff. I would really,

17:35

really highly encourage people to take a deeper

17:37

dive into this and really learn about

17:39

this history

17:40

because it's super, super important.

17:42

So can you talk about how

17:45

all of that context influenced

17:49

you as you were growing

17:52

up? How did being in an activist

17:54

household who was involved

17:57

in committed to all of the things that your dad was?

17:59

How did that end?

17:59

impact you growing up? What was that like? I was definitely

18:02

heavily influenced for our community.

18:04

My dad did a lot of stuff in the community

18:07

and so did my grandmother as well. So

18:09

I was

18:09

raised by both. So I feel

18:11

like with my dad's influence, I feel like

18:14

it's a lot of heavy shoes to bear, but I felt

18:16

like I took that and flipped it and I'm giving

18:18

power back to the people in healthcare

18:20

and mental health, helping the community in

18:23

that way. Can you talk a little bit about

18:26

that path of becoming

18:29

a mental health advocate,

18:31

why you chose that route and then share

18:33

a little bit maybe about the founding of Awareness

18:36

After Dark and what that does?

18:37

I was actually a healthcare executive

18:40

at the time and then my mother, I don't

18:42

know where I had a mental health breakdown. My mother

18:44

was a recovering alcoholic and drug addict, but

18:46

she had been clean for like 15, 20 years.

18:49

When it comes to sobriety, you

18:51

just never know. Anything could trigger sometimes.

18:54

So I thought it was that, but come

18:56

to find out when I walked into her, I

18:59

pretty much walked in on her almost ready to commit

19:01

suicide. But at that given

19:03

moment, I knew that something was not right

19:05

because we were taught to assess people in

19:07

like the first three, five, 10 seconds

19:10

of meeting them, their behavior and structure,

19:13

body language, speech. And I

19:15

knew that something was wrong. So she

19:17

had like five different personalities

19:20

going all at once. And that was definitely

19:22

not her. And

19:23

she was definitely scared of me, which

19:25

was weird because she's always kissing on

19:27

me and hugging on me. And so at that point, I saw

19:30

knives on the counter and the

19:32

room was dark and it was

19:34

just really eerie. And at that time

19:37

I knew I had the decision to make and

19:39

she had personality of someone

19:40

crying and then someone being scared.

19:43

And then one

19:43

minute she was angry and I knew

19:45

I wasn't going to be able to be in

19:48

the house with her by myself, like trying to calm her

19:50

down. Like there was going to be a wise decision. So

19:52

I called the ambulance and

19:54

let them know we have psych issue, which

19:57

is very important when you talk to the ambulance

19:59

or police,

19:59

know it's a psych issue was not anything

20:02

else so that they can change their attitude

20:04

when they come to the door because it's in case

20:07

your loved one acts a little bit

20:09

belligerent, they're not going to proceed with

20:11

force. After that, got her checked out

20:13

and everything to the emergency room and

20:15

had all types of drug tests, scan tests,

20:18

everything came back clean as a whistle. She was

20:20

like, I said I didn't use any drugs. And

20:22

I had to put her in a lockdown facility for

20:24

like two, three months and kind of

20:27

find out she was having a manic depression

20:29

episode and she was diagnosed bipolar

20:32

and manic depression. So that kind of catapulted

20:34

me. And once I started talking about it, other

20:36

people started chiming

20:37

in saying, yeah, my

20:39

brother did. So my aunt, my uncle, my mom,

20:42

or yeah, my son has this. And so my

20:44

wheels got to turn in like, well,

20:46

because at

20:47

first I was heavily in the HIV

20:49

stuff when I was working with the Magic Johnson

20:51

Foundation. So my wheels started turning like,

20:53

okay, well, everybody got these issues

20:55

that nobody tell me about. So everybody got somebody

20:58

that nobody was talking about it. So at that given

21:00

moment, there wasn't really a lot of activists, not

21:02

a lot of activists of color. And it really wasn't a lot

21:05

of stuff out there for mental health,

21:07

honestly. And so when I

21:09

was working with the Magic

21:10

Johnson Foundation to get those

21:12

HIV test numbers up, I added entertainment

21:15

to it because I learned that

21:16

it's called edutainment. As adults, we

21:18

don't like to be preached to like we're in a collegiate

21:21

classroom. We like to be educated

21:23

through entertainment. So I just called it

21:25

edutainment. And I was just like, it came with the

21:27

crazy idea, no fun intended,

21:30

to have some type of event where

21:32

I can have people talking about enjoying drinks

21:34

and food or whatever movies or whatever

21:37

the case may be, but have it be

21:39

a more fun and light doesn't have to be depressing.

21:41

It can be a conversation piece. So while

21:43

I was just, I guess in some boring

21:45

meeting, this came up with the thing like awareness

21:48

of the dark, I wanted something for adults.

21:50

I didn't want nothing cheesy. And so

21:53

I came up with a thing

21:53

where awareness of the dark or education

21:55

and entertainment collide. And I just put

21:58

a ribbon on it, a green ribbon for mental health and And

22:00

that was my first thing. Got some people who

22:02

believed in me. I was always doing something

22:04

in the community. So I was already doing that. I was doing

22:06

things with my sorority

22:07

anyway, with the city of Englewood,

22:09

doing their 100 centennial celebration. So

22:12

I was already well known in the community

22:14

for my health advocacy. And so

22:16

it was kind of like an easy transition. And

22:18

it was easy because once

22:21

I mentioned it, so many people just came with

22:23

the influx. And I was like, well, where

22:25

have y'all been? Like, where

22:27

do y'all go? And so really it

22:29

was about connecting mental

22:32

health professionals, whether they're a counselor,

22:34

mental health coach, or LSCW.

22:37

People weren't connecting with their providers. And

22:39

so I created an event called Let's

22:41

Get Mental, where we had a DJ

22:44

or live band music playing

22:47

throughout. And then we had different sections. We

22:49

would have mental health and relationships, mental

22:51

health and all the job, resilience. Then

22:53

we had a man cave. And when people came

22:56

in, they received goodies. The man cave,

22:58

no woman can go in here, but maybe me

23:01

and

23:01

another person. But it was all men talking

23:03

to licensed clinical social workers, counselors,

23:06

advocates, talking, discussing, and going

23:08

through different workshops. They had mental

23:10

health and holistic type stuff. And then

23:12

I created my suffering and silence wall, which

23:14

was a wall of celebrities,

23:16

a well-known people of color that

23:19

either committed suicide or suffering

23:21

from anxiety, depression, et cetera, so that

23:23

they can see that there's plenty of other people out

23:25

here suffering just like them or

23:27

that 11 written that there's a way to get help.

23:30

And then from that, I

23:31

think before the first event, I knew

23:33

I would need to do something more.

23:34

And so I did a video short

23:37

film. It was really bootleg,

23:38

but it wasn't a nominated for an

23:40

award. The Cannes Film Festival at the

23:42

top awards actually, which I was really surprised

23:45

because I had no film experience. And I was up

23:47

there with some really big ones that have been in the industry

23:49

like forever. I was really shocked. And

23:51

it was really just a lot of my colleagues,

23:54

people that I admired talking about mental health and African

23:56

American community. And when I submitted it

23:58

or when the people call me from.

23:59

the festival to let me know it was like three o'clock

24:02

in the morning or two o'clock in the morning because time difference.

24:04

They told me that they thought it was amazing and

24:06

beautiful and that they hadn't

24:08

had a film like that at all addressing

24:11

mental health period, especially in

24:13

the African American people of color community.

24:15

And so in the video, I'm

24:18

actually questioning other

24:18

people, but the last person

24:21

is me and you have another colleague questioning

24:23

me. And it gets a little bit emotional because I go through

24:25

the whole scene of my mother

24:28

about to commit suicide and me catching

24:30

her before, you know, that actually even

24:32

transpires and how I actually came in.

24:34

At that moment, it was just about getting the awareness

24:36

out so people can talk and connecting

24:38

the community to the people

24:40

who actually service because one

24:43

of the biggest issues that people of color face

24:46

is getting

24:46

help, normal to go, and then also

24:49

getting the right treatment because not

24:51

everybody needs meds. And so it's

24:53

getting the proper diagnosis, talking

24:55

to a provider who can actually listen

24:57

to you, relate to you. And I think now

25:00

there's a lot more of that. If

25:02

you're an Indian and you want to speak to the Indian

25:04

therapist, you got that. You know what I'm saying?

25:06

If you're Asian and you want to speak to an Asian therapist

25:08

counselor or whatever, okay, we got that now

25:11

before that, that

25:13

linkage, whatever was not there.

25:15

And then also you got the stigma of mental

25:18

health. So to me, in the beginning was all

25:20

about breaking the silence and breaking

25:22

that stigma so that it can be discussed

25:25

and people can feel comfortable getting

25:27

help or being comfortable talking

25:29

about their loved

25:30

one with an issue. Because the big

25:32

thing is that people feel mental

25:34

health is all the way to the left. No,

25:35

mental health is a day full of stress.

25:37

So you have anxiety about a test, you know what I'm

25:39

saying? And maybe hyperventilating or just

25:42

me going, but not too far. It doesn't mean you need medication.

25:44

It doesn't mean you talk to somebody, but mental

25:46

health is every day just like your regular

25:48

health. Well, you have created this incredible

25:52

blend of mental health,

25:54

advocacy, and world

25:56

travel and you've merged those

25:58

two passions together.

25:59

in some really incredible ways. And I want to ask

26:02

you now just a little bit about the travel

26:04

side of that. Can you share a little

26:06

bit just about how your interest in

26:09

world travel developed, how

26:11

you started traveling, and then

26:13

how these two things merged together

26:15

for you?

26:16

So I've been traveling ever since

26:18

I was young due to my biological grandfather

26:20

taking a travel. My grandmother taking

26:22

a traveling throughout the states and stuff like

26:24

that. So I've always traveled cross

26:27

country. So I always been into travel,

26:30

but I think after graduation, college

26:32

finally getting a real job. I really wanted

26:34

to do certain things that I hadn't done before,

26:37

going to a ski weekend, all that types of

26:39

different things. So in college I've traveled,

26:41

going to different states and things like that. But

26:43

I think after college and gotten that

26:45

real paycheck, that's when I really wanted to do certain

26:47

things. And then I think once the internet

26:50

started really booming, I saw travel groups, but

26:52

certain travel groups were too expensive

26:55

and I was still a service servant, so I didn't want to make that

26:57

kind of money. And I also wasn't the backpacker

26:59

either,

26:59

but I also wanted to make a difference as well.

27:02

So especially I think after going

27:04

to Mexico or play at their carmen,

27:07

seeing kids beg for money or going to the

27:09

trash, traveling as a tourist just

27:11

didn't feel right to me. So although

27:13

I wanted to have fun, I also felt I needed

27:15

to do something. So at that

27:17

moment I created work and play, whereas

27:20

half work, half play. So you're pretty much

27:22

giving back to whatever country we're visiting, where

27:24

it's coping out different legitimate

27:26

organizations, embedding them out

27:29

and giving back to them. Like Bali, I think

27:31

it was Bali kids, went to Bali,

27:33

it's an orphanage, thought of them affected

27:35

with HIV and some other things. Parents gave

27:38

them away or whatever it gets me to be. So we did a lot of art

27:40

therapy, played therapy and gave a

27:42

lot of toiletries and clothes to them. They

27:44

lost stuff in Thailand. And still it's the same

27:46

method. And I think that

27:49

for me, I was featured in sort of, I

27:51

think, a Gorys Republic for that. With

27:53

that, they gave me a lot of pride. It made

27:55

people feel good that they were giving back and

27:57

it gave them a sense of.

27:59

pride but humility of

28:02

being able to travel is a luxury plain and simple.

28:04

Not everybody's ready to do it and then it also

28:06

puts things in perspective when you

28:08

get back home. If you left my

28:11

trip with a changed mind, changed heart

28:13

about the way you operate things when you come back

28:15

home, I feel like I made a difference. A lot of people

28:17

from my trips, I no longer do group trips

28:19

anymore just because I'm in a different space,

28:21

but a lot of my people that were

28:24

on my trips became family and they changed their

28:26

lives to change the way they did things once

28:28

they got back.

28:29

Alright I want to pause here and

28:32

let you know that I have narrowed down

28:34

and compiled my top 10

28:36

smartphone apps that I use

28:39

while traveling the world as a full-time

28:41

digital nomad. I have put

28:44

them together for you in a list

28:46

with descriptions of what the app

28:48

does, how I use it during my

28:51

travels, along with a direct link so

28:53

that you too can download the app onto your

28:55

phone. Now a lot of these apps I

28:57

had no idea about

29:00

until I ran into other

29:02

digital nomads that showed me how

29:04

to use them and they have been game

29:07

changers. So if you would like

29:09

to get my top 10 essential apps

29:11

for digital nomads you can go to

29:14

themaverickshow.com

29:17

slash apps. This is completely

29:20

free. All it's gonna ask you to do is enter

29:22

your email which will get you onto

29:24

the Maverick Show's Monday Minute

29:27

email newsletter list if you have not

29:29

already subscribed

29:29

and then you can

29:32

check them out. So just go to themaverickshow.com

29:37

slash apps.

29:40

And now

29:41

back to the episode. I

29:44

also want to ask you about your

29:46

best-selling book, Keep Calm,

29:49

Bring Your Carry-On, The Ultimate Self-Care

29:51

Guide for Travelers of Color. I love it for

29:53

a lot of reasons. I travel the world with carry-on

29:56

luggage only so that particularly jumped out

29:58

to me when I saw that that was...

29:59

People love it. But can you

30:02

talk a little bit about how that book came

30:04

about and then what people can expect from

30:06

the book? Okay. So it came about

30:08

because although I was doing Let's Get

30:10

Mental, I knew that the event was

30:12

just happening in California. I kind of wanted to be a

30:14

little bit more global and how could

30:16

I do

30:17

that? So my whole thing was

30:19

I wanted to interview

30:20

well-known and

30:22

up and coming traveling influencers

30:25

that were making a headway, but I

30:27

wanted to ask the question, what's in your

30:29

carry-on? What's in your carry-on

30:30

that's going to help you with your mental health

30:33

as far as travel is concerned

30:35

and ask the questions about how does travel

30:37

assist them with their mental health? The reason

30:39

why I called it Keep Conbraying a Carry-On because

30:41

I felt it was pretty much an analogy for

30:44

when you travel, your carry-on is

30:46

the most important thing that you have with you,

30:48

right? Because everything you need,

30:51

you really, really need that you can't lose

30:53

is in your carry-on. Those are your immediate

30:55

things that you need immediately. Like

30:57

for me, it may be my crystals,

31:00

my prayer beads, my aroma

31:02

dough, play dough type things,

31:04

maybe get jittery. These are things that you

31:06

need that keep your mentally sane

31:08

or keep you mentally grounded so you can get to your

31:11

next destination. So that's how I got the

31:13

Keep Conbraying a Carry-On and the

31:15

whole concept of first

31:16

book, Keep Conbraying a Carry-On, the ultimate self-care

31:19

guide for travelers of color is each

31:21

chapter focus on a different traveler

31:23

influencer asking them, Hey, what's in

31:25

your carry-on and what's on your carry-on that

31:27

helps you maintain? A lot of people have

31:29

a lot of different things. You got to have they be

31:31

spadre, their music, some snacks,

31:34

food, it can be intimate type things,

31:37

whatever it is, especially, you know, being a woman, I

31:39

need this, this, I need to make sure it's there because I don't know if it's

31:41

going to be there and that's going to be spazzed out. If I don't get there

31:43

and I don't have it, it can be anything that's in your carry-on.

31:46

So as it relates to everyday life,

31:48

when you're not traveling,

31:49

what are the things that you need to keep beside

31:51

you or with you, whether you're at work, whether

31:53

you're at home to help you maintain?

31:56

Mine is Kint's Incense Candles.

31:58

Like I have travel candles.

31:59

I have this little lead light, small

32:02

rock light. I have little various things

32:04

that help me maintain my sanity.

32:07

Well, you have interviewed amazing people

32:09

in this book, many of which Maverick

32:11

show listeners know because they have been

32:13

guests on this podcast. So

32:16

you interviewed Evita Robinson,

32:18

you interviewed Martinique Lewis, you

32:21

interviewed Jeff Jenkins, and a whole

32:23

bunch of really, really incredible

32:25

people. So super incredible resource.

32:28

And then talk a little bit about the journal

32:31

that came out as

32:33

a companion to this along

32:35

with the workbook. Okay, so the

32:38

biggest thing was I even came out with a book

32:40

period is because I felt

32:43

as a person of color traveler, that

32:45

African Americans or people of color have

32:48

way different experiences

32:50

than our white brother and sisters when we travel.

32:52

To be honest, I don't feel like there's anywhere

32:55

that I don't see a monument,

32:57

a memory of slavery

32:59

because of how the Atlantic slave trade

33:01

went. And that when traveling,

33:03

all they're excited to be there is also a

33:06

reminder traveling, I feel, for people

33:08

of color

33:08

is like more of an emotional roller coaster.

33:10

And it's a lot to process, especially

33:13

when you're coming back to the motherland because there's

33:15

so much to digest, especially

33:18

when you think you're coming back to open

33:20

arms. And you may not be. And that's

33:22

just honest truth. So in the beginning

33:24

of the book, I actually have a safety plan, regardless

33:27

if you have a mental health issue or not,

33:29

just in case for any reason. And then

33:31

it goes over a list of emotions you may

33:33

be feeling and stuff like that. And

33:35

then it goes

33:36

to first page trip one is your

33:38

pre anxiety trip. What are some of the emotions

33:40

that you feel about this trip? I mean, just face it

33:42

every trip you may be excited about every trip

33:45

has a lot of anxiety. My trip gone

33:47

to Ghana because you can get sick. You

33:49

can get sick out

33:50

here. Sometimes there's no hot water. And

33:52

then I got your daily trip breakdown,

33:54

how I'm feeling to do list

33:57

hydration, the root of your emotion,

33:59

how the the environment was, cause let's face

34:01

it, certain environments can be very triggering

34:04

depending on what it is. It may trigger any

34:06

emotion. It could triggers maybe a love

34:08

on that past or maybe

34:10

something toxic or it could trigger

34:12

something happy. So,

34:13

and then also being in digital nomad,

34:15

I also went through some feelings that I went

34:17

through and speaking on it, I saw that

34:19

other digital nomads, expat travelers

34:21

were going through some of the same thing. And so

34:24

at that given time, it just clicked.

34:26

Let's take it further. Let me focus

34:29

in on these people. Traveling

34:31

has its ups and downs.

34:33

You know, you have the goods and it's bad. Sometimes

34:35

it can be a lonely space. You know what I'm saying? It's

34:38

not all cookies and creams, what you see on Instagram.

34:40

If they really showed you the behind the scenes, you'd

34:42

be like, Oh, really? That's what it's like living. Yeah.

34:45

I don't know about that. They don't show you all the pitfalls

34:47

and downfalls of traveling,

34:50

being a nomad. Don't be lying. It has a lot of perks,

34:52

but it's a lot that comes with it as well. So

34:55

to me, like I said, I see everybody, but

34:57

my specialty, what I key

34:59

in on our digital nomads, expats

35:01

and travelers. And on top of that, those

35:03

who are of color,

35:04

but I see everybody, every

35:07

race and nationality, you mentioned

35:09

that sometimes returning

35:12

to the continent isn't going to

35:14

give you the experience that you hope

35:16

that it will give you. Do you want

35:19

to share a little bit more about

35:21

that or share any of your personal reflections?

35:24

Well, it's a lot of good,

35:26

but it's you also got a comfy pair for

35:28

some unpleasant experiences.

35:31

And I'm just speaking from a

35:33

black woman's perspective. I'm also

35:35

speaking from observing situations

35:38

too. Even if I'm talking to

35:40

another black person or

35:42

somebody in South Africa or somebody

35:44

in Uganda, because I am

35:47

black, that doesn't mean I'm going to be treated

35:49

like I am one of them. Number one,

35:51

because I guess we automatically have what they

35:53

say an American accent, but for

35:56

example, Cape Town, Cape Town still

35:58

has whispers of.

35:59

apartheid, meaning that when people

36:02

see me, depending on who they are, they're going

36:04

to treat me different because they think I'm a black South

36:06

African. Now, once they hear my voice, they

36:08

may treat me differently because, ooh,

36:10

I'm American. You're not black. You're

36:12

American. Dollar signs. Oh,

36:15

and you have a US passport,

36:16

so you're special. For some odd reason,

36:18

there's this thing that they just

36:20

think the US is just, I

36:22

don't know, Hollywood, like glist and glam.

36:25

They don't understand the civil rights movement. They don't

36:27

understand that everyone's still different,

36:29

go through different things. They feel like everyone

36:31

in the US is born with a silver spoon in their mouth.

36:34

And they feel that nobody in the

36:36

US goes through hard times

36:38

and struggles. Like if I told someone that, yeah,

36:40

when I was with my mother and her drug addiction, I was

36:42

homeless, without food, no clothes,

36:45

whatever, they'd be like, no, they

36:47

just feel like you have this glamorous, glamorous

36:49

life. And don't get me wrong, we do have a lot more opportunities,

36:52

but we don't do a lot of things as

36:54

well. Go through a lot of suffering, sometimes

36:56

maybe even worse because of the laws that are in

36:58

place that are supposed to protect us aren't.

37:01

They don't

37:01

see any of that. They just see

37:03

American dollar sign. And so

37:05

that's the treatment that you receive. Jen,

37:08

what tips do you have for

37:10

black travelers that are at the very

37:13

early stage of their nomad

37:15

journey in terms of navigating

37:18

anti-blackness globally as they

37:20

start to move around in different continents, different

37:23

countries and all of that kind of stuff? If they're at the early

37:25

stage of their travel journey, what

37:27

should they know or be aware of? Or what

37:29

advice do you have for starting that nomad

37:31

journey? Don't be scared. Go see

37:33

your stuff for yourself. There's a lot of travel

37:36

groups. There's a lot of influencers on Instagram.

37:38

There are a lot of people that have guidebooks.

37:41

There's a lot of information out there for you

37:43

from people that actually are real

37:45

and authentic. Look for that. Don't look

37:47

for people that are just trying to sell you a pipe dream.

37:50

Do your research for yourself. Go see

37:52

other countries, safe countries for

37:54

yourself. See if you know somebody there.

37:57

You don't have to do the hotels.

37:59

You don't have to do the expensive Airbnbs.

38:01

There's trusted house sitters. I do trust the house

38:04

sitters. That's how I'm able to travel

38:06

parts of the world. There's different ways to travel

38:09

for free. It says that your credit's not good.

38:11

You can stay at somebody's house, don't exchange.

38:14

That's what trusted house sitters are. There's so

38:16

many ways to travel right now. You

38:18

don't have to travel like how you see some of these influencers,

38:21

champagne, high rise or whatever. You

38:23

can still have a beautiful trip and

38:25

they have nice hostels now. I'm not

38:27

a hostile person, I have done two and

38:29

one in Costa Rica and I think another

38:31

one, nothing in Mexico, but they're beautiful

38:33

and you can have your own room, have you on bathroom,

38:35

just share a kitchen or they have where

38:37

they do food for you. There's

38:39

so many different ways to travel right now. You

38:41

don't have to break the bank. Jen, let me ask

38:43

you one more question and then we'll wrap this up and move

38:46

into the lightning round. When you

38:48

think back about all of

38:50

the travel that you've done up to this point,

38:52

what impact has all of that

38:54

travel had on you as a

38:57

person? What does travel mean

38:59

to you?

39:00

Travel means freedom,

39:02

education, being educated

39:05

about cultures, being educated by myself,

39:07

learning about myself and being able

39:10

to help. My whole thing with Work and Play,

39:12

my whole slogan was don't just see the world,

39:14

give back to it. That's my thing. I want to be able

39:16

to set my mark on a wall, give it weight,

39:18

give back to it some way, some way, somehow

39:21

before I leave this earth. And my way is

39:23

through healthcare and mental health. That's

39:25

amazing. I think that's a great place to end the

39:28

main portion of this interview. And at this point,

39:30

Jen, are you ready to move in to the

39:32

lightning round? I am. Let's

39:34

do it. The Lightning Round. All

39:39

right. What is one book that has significantly

39:41

impacted

39:42

you over the years you'd most recommend

39:44

people should read other than your own? Right

39:47

now I am reading Bell Hooks Love. Bell

39:49

Hooks is a really good pick. I actually got

39:52

to meet her on two different

39:54

occasions. Unfortunately she passed

39:56

away recently, but she was incredibly

39:59

prolific. I think she published over 40 books. So

40:02

if folks do not know Bell Hooks, they should

40:04

definitely lick her up and start going through

40:06

her catalog. We will link that up in the show notes

40:08

as well. Jen, if you could have dinner

40:11

with any one person who's currently

40:13

alive today that you've never met,

40:16

just you and that person for an evening

40:18

of dinner and conversation, who would you pick? Probably

40:20

Oprah. That's a good one. All right, Jen,

40:23

knowing everything you know now, if you could go back

40:25

in time and give one piece of advice

40:27

to your 18-year-old self, what

40:29

would

40:29

you say to 18-year-old Jen? You

40:32

don't have to live that way. I

40:34

think the biggest issue for me is that

40:36

people always try to pray for college, pray for the next

40:38

thing, pray for the next thing. It's just a traditional

40:41

way of living life, right?

40:43

High school, college, marriage. I just talked

40:45

about somebody this morning. Marriage, children, duh,

40:47

duh, duh, duh. That good job right after

40:50

college. You gotta do this, you gotta do that. That was like

40:52

really instilled. Give me a moment, I'm thankful

40:53

for it because it got me stable in the

40:55

401k that I needed. But it still didn't

40:57

make me happy.

40:58

That's what you see the huge pivot

41:01

in the way I live my life. And sometimes

41:03

I gotta catch myself when I complain about

41:05

certain things because a lot of my friends are like, you know what, you're living

41:07

a life right now. Bet on yourself, fly,

41:10

jump. I wanted the traditional thing so

41:12

much and to where it was blocking

41:15

things. So you don't have to live that

41:17

way. There's so many different ways to live,

41:19

to still accomplish

41:20

the thing that everybody wants.

41:22

And that's overall true, authentic

41:25

happiness. Awesome. All

41:27

right, Jen, of all the places you have now traveled,

41:30

what are three of your top favorite

41:32

destinations you'd most recommend other people

41:34

should definitely check out?

41:36

Cape Town, Ghana, Bali.

41:39

All right, what are your top three bucket

41:42

list destinations? These are places

41:44

we have not yet been. Highest

41:46

on your list, you most wanna see. Singapore.

41:49

Singapore, okay.

41:50

I'm going to Dubai, so that's about to do that.

41:54

And I want to go to Tanzania. All

41:56

right, amazing. I was just in Tanzania this

41:58

past year.

41:59

So when you're ready to do that

42:02

chip, feel free to hit me up. I've hung out in Dubai and Singapore

42:04

too. So those are both really good picks

42:06

as well. So feel free to hit me up for tips

42:09

on those spots. All right, Jen, we have now

42:11

come to the most important question of this interview.

42:14

I'm about to ask you to name your top

42:16

five hip hop MCs of

42:18

all time. But before I do that, can you just share

42:21

a little bit about what

42:24

you love about hip hop

42:26

and what it means to you? Well,

42:28

hip hop being from California

42:30

and actually my dad, I

42:32

remember officially being from Oakland

42:34

when the whole beat box and

42:37

break dancers, I remember him

42:39

seeing these kids. So

42:42

people don't know about breakdancing. What

42:44

is a break dance? You had to break dance

42:46

on a smooth gliding, like

42:49

fake floor mat. They would get

42:51

room size or half a room size

42:54

laminated floor and roll it up and take it wherever

42:56

they go so they can do all the breakdancing. So one

42:58

of the things that I did really admire about my

43:00

dad, he saw that thing was old

43:02

beat. It wasn't enough for the breakdancers to do what they

43:04

wanted to do. And so he's like, all

43:06

right, get in the car. We're about to go to the hardware

43:09

store. I'm like, where are we going in there for? And

43:11

he went and got a big old laminated

43:13

flooring, rolled it up, had the people put

43:15

it in the car. And he brought it back

43:18

to where the breakdancers and hip hop

43:20

people were breakdancing them. And also, I guess

43:23

battle wrapping or whatever.

43:24

And so he was the king of the community.

43:27

And it just really warmed my heart that my

43:29

dad did that for them. He brought that back

43:31

so they can just have

43:32

good old fashioned fun and enjoy themselves.

43:35

So not only that, but that

43:37

was a big part of hip hop and how

43:39

hip

43:40

hop to me changed my life as far as going

43:42

through a lot of things as a child. It

43:44

helped me also in sports. I'm definitely ex-athlete.

43:47

I'm still an athlete, but it helps you with

43:49

adrenaline, going through things, poverty,

43:52

things at work. And this helps you get through

43:54

a lot of things and you can definitely relate and also

43:57

get you hype, especially if you're in sports

43:59

and things or-

43:59

or just trying to conquer things in your life,

44:02

period, day-to-day things. And you can relate.

44:04

And sometimes they use words or lyrics

44:07

that you cannot formulate or come

44:09

up with, but they're saying exactly how you feel

44:11

and what you want to say. All right, Jen,

44:13

who are your top five? Snoop Dogg,

44:16

Tupac, Nas.

44:18

I did like Biggie. I do,

44:21

uh, I like Kendrick Lamardo. Is that five?

44:24

That is. OK, I was going to put Jay-Z

44:26

in there, but I wanted to put some New

44:27

School in there, too. No, you wanted to get more

44:30

California rappers than East Coast rappers, and you did

44:32

that with Kendrick. So represent for the West Coast.

44:35

I love that. West side. Absolutely.

44:37

Throw the doves up. We're going to close it out just like

44:39

that. All right, Jen, I want you

44:41

to let folks know how they can connect

44:43

with you, how they can follow you

44:45

on social media, how they can buy your book,

44:47

and if they're interested in your telehealth

44:50

coaching services, how they can

44:52

work with you. I'm

44:53

on Instagram as JenJen underscore

44:55

McKinney official. It's easy to find me on

44:57

Instagram. Also, the website, keep

44:59

calm, bring a carry on. And if you're on Instagram,

45:02

it also lists all my podcasts,

45:04

articles, and stuff that may feature it. And it has a booking

45:06

link. And on the keep calm, bring a carry on,

45:09

you can call me or send me an email,

45:11

keep calm, bring a carry on at gmail.com.

45:14

And there's a thing at the website

45:15

as well to get a booking. Your

45:17

initial discovery session is

45:20

actually free for 15 minutes to see

45:22

what you would like to do, if

45:23

it's a great fit or not, what the plan

45:25

would be to go further. Amazing.

45:28

We are going to link all of that up in the show

45:30

notes. So folks can just go to one place

45:32

at themaverickshow.com. There

45:35

you're going to find all of the ways to contact

45:38

Jen and connect with her and everything

45:40

else we have discussed on this episode. And

45:42

the books are on Amazon. All of my books are

45:45

on Amazon. We are going to link up the books as

45:47

well in the show notes. So just go to one place.

45:49

You're going to find everything that we have

45:51

talked about there. Jen, this

45:53

was amazing. Thank you so much for coming

45:55

on the show. Thank you for having me. I'm

45:57

glad we connected. I'm glad you was a great. Talking

46:00

to you is definitely I could talk to you all day

46:02

word We could go on for four more hours, but

46:04

we're gonna let everybody else take off and

46:07

call it a night. Thanks everybody. Good night

46:11

All right I hope you enjoyed that episode

46:13

just a final reminder to subscribe to

46:15

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46:43

the maverick show comm Direct

46:46

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46:48

mentioned in this episode You'll find all

46:51

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46:53

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