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right, we're here, joined in part by

0:39

um Kurt. Was it harder

0:41

than woodpecker lips? Or tougher than woodpecker

0:43

lips? Roscoe? Harder? Harder

0:45

than Kurt, harder than woodpecker lips?

0:47

Roscoe? Out

0:50

of Bozeman, Montain? Did you know that that was your

0:52

that's a guy wrote in I remember

0:54

you mentioned in that last time harder than

0:56

woodpecker lips. I don't think we had the saying

0:59

right at that point, though. You

1:01

gotta trademark that. Yeah, and

1:03

I know now that you have. I've

1:06

witnessed it now. You're very you're monastic,

1:09

um your sort

1:13

of monastic food

1:15

regimen. Yes,

1:17

it's pretty simple. I

1:20

don't view it as simple. I will see now

1:24

I'd call it hardcore. Oh, it's totally

1:26

hardcore. It's harder than a woodpecker's lips. Everything,

1:30

everything about Kurt's ship

1:33

is so dialed. Yeah,

1:35

I've just taken notes all week. I

1:37

felt like my I was just a hot mess compared

1:40

to Yeah. Just everything

1:42

is his pack, his food's a

1:44

funny he's like his clothing

1:47

system. Everything. Guy

1:49

just so fucking dial anytime I was

1:51

drinking hot liquids, I was like, God, I'm weak. Yeah

1:56

Kurts from Kurts a designer

1:59

at Stone Glacier and like a founder

2:01

at Stone Glacier. Yep. Yeah,

2:04

started in two thousand twelve, bought

2:07

a Sola machine bot asan machine ah

2:09

years before that and like a little old lady

2:12

sewing away. Yeah. Uh.

2:15

Curtis explained as before is that you would

2:19

modify your backpack so much that you'd

2:21

eventually wind up was sort of a different backpack.

2:24

Well that's really how it all started. Um,

2:27

and uh, it took a while. It took

2:30

probably a couple of years, but yeah,

2:33

you keep tweaking on little things.

2:35

Started with the bags and started with the frame, and

2:38

at the end of it you end up something completely new.

2:41

So that that was really

2:43

where the whole company started. I

2:46

want to detail his monastic food

2:48

regimen. And it made

2:50

sense this trip because

2:53

Kurt Ford goes see.

2:56

Here's where it gets a little bit like, this

2:58

is where I kind of got thrown off. I was telling the boys

3:01

last night, if I could, that's

3:04

gonna sound it's gonna make you uncomfortable. Kurt's

3:08

comment, it's a compliment, but it might

3:11

make you feel uncomfortable. I was

3:13

saying, if I could vacate my brain for

3:15

a while and go live

3:17

in a different brain, I'd

3:21

probably like, I'd probably go live in yours for

3:23

a little while, like,

3:25

and there's not there's very very few people

3:27

I would say. This's about like if I could go occupy,

3:31

like I would live in my same house, family,

3:34

like, same all stuff, but

3:36

just have like be in your brain for a little

3:39

while and be that um

3:42

that Here's

3:44

what I'm trying to say to honors. Here's what I understand. You

3:48

don't like to when you're out. You drink coffee

3:50

at home, Yeah, but you won't

3:52

drink coffee out hunting because

3:55

it's too inconvenient. Uh.

3:58

And so you wake up and just energy bars

4:01

and instead of coffee, you take a coffee

4:03

a caffeine goo yeah, and

4:06

then you're out the door, yeah, of the tent.

4:08

Yeah. But even

4:10

in a situation where we had warm breakfast

4:14

and had coffee and you

4:16

didn't have to make it and it was there

4:18

anyway, and it was just there.

4:21

You still wouldn't eat it, Like,

4:23

why, what are you trying to prove a point? No,

4:28

No, I'm just h and

4:30

a lot of the things I do in life, and

4:33

hunting being one of them, I just kind

4:35

of get dialed in on my system.

4:37

And and so when

4:40

I wake up in the morning part

4:43

of this, I'm really hungry. So the

4:45

first thing I'll do is roll out of my bag and grab

4:48

a bar to eat. And then when I'm getting

4:50

all my stuff packed and getting

4:52

dressed, so you're eating in your bag when

4:56

I'm starting to climb out. Yeah,

4:58

so by the time I have my boots

5:00

on, my gators on, I'm

5:02

gone. So there's no cooking. It's

5:05

uh, it's just kind

5:07

of trying to be efficient and

5:10

not haven't get up earlier

5:12

just so that you can make coffee. That doesn't I'd

5:15

rather lay in my bed or in

5:17

my bag and get more sleep and be warm.

5:20

But what was going on when you, um, you

5:23

wouldn't even you snubbed

5:25

our campfire. I

5:28

didn't know it snubbed your campfire? Do you

5:30

know that. I don't know if you guys knows Kurt

5:33

wouldn't go buy the campire. I

5:36

didn't notice that. I didn't notice that we were there,

5:39

stood off in the distance. Fire. You

5:41

didn't want to be correct? Yeah, the fires

5:44

too heatonistic. He didn't want to be

5:46

He's like, I don't want to become soft by

5:48

going by no campfire. That

5:51

second night, you were the last one by the campfire.

5:54

Yeah. Maybe he just

5:57

didn't want holes in his gear. I

6:01

want to have a ton of spark holes.

6:05

Uh, we're gonna we'll get back to that.

6:07

We'll get back some of that stuff I want to I want to cover

6:10

off on a couple of things. Um,

6:13

you'll appreciate this stuff. Remember how we

6:15

were just hunting in June, we hunted orcs at the White

6:17

Sands missile

6:19

Range. We're not there. I'll

6:22

rehash off range

6:25

in New Mexico. We had

6:27

a whole show about this, but I us explained it folks real

6:29

quick. In New Mexico, there's like two

6:31

RICS hunts. It's more complicating

6:33

this, but just to simplify things, there's two RICS

6:35

hunts. There's on range, which means

6:37

you get to actually hunt the White Sands missile range,

6:40

and it's real hand holding, Like

6:42

it's like a nine percent success rate,

6:45

but real handholding. You

6:47

gotta go do a little seminar. They

6:50

kind of tell you you can go over there, but you can't go over

6:52

there. And at seven o'clock you gotta be out

6:54

of here and you can't start until it's just very like

6:57

you know, it's like being in the army. Yeah,

7:00

and it's on. It's that way because

7:02

on a military base secret

7:04

they got unexploded ordinance all around.

7:07

Yeah, they got aliens locked up. It's

7:10

like they got all kinds of stuff going on

7:12

there. So

7:14

it's real handholding, but you're gonna get one, like if

7:17

you show up, you'll get one, and they call it once

7:19

in a lifetime hunt. So once you draw on range,

7:21

you can't ever draw it again. Meanwhile,

7:23

the rest of the damn state is off range.

7:27

And that's a very low success rate. Um,

7:30

what was it? I remember?

7:32

What what's the ten percent? Why do they fail? Just

7:35

probably don't show up up or

7:37

their their day. Want a hog? Right,

7:40

you have no idea? And on range they

7:42

got all this other ship like they got a broken horn season

7:46

where you can shoot one with a busted horn. It's

7:48

crazy, but I'm trying to speak generally. Anyhow,

7:51

when you're hunting off range, you can hunt the whole damn

7:53

state, but it makes most sense to hunt along the fence

7:57

line. Then some bitch things hundred

7:59

thirty miles and the at the south. We just

8:01

kind of worked one the western We

8:04

kind of worked the western edge within

8:06

zero within leaning

8:09

on the fence, which I always felt

8:11

guilty about. When I leaned on that fence, I

8:13

kind of leaned flath handed so that my fingers didn't

8:15

go into the missile range. From

8:18

leaning on the fence to five what five

8:20

six? We killed one what five miles off five

8:23

miles out of the range. You'll

8:26

appreciate this story. Something

8:29

happens there where footprints,

8:32

thousands of year old footprints get solidified

8:35

in that sand down there, Like

8:38

when conditions are right, someone can walk through and

8:40

leave footprints in the mud. That's what it is.

8:43

When when it happens to be wet, you

8:46

leave a footprint, and the way it dries

8:49

and blows in, things

8:51

that happened in the mud gets stuck in the mud, Like

8:54

what concrete sidewalkers. Check

8:56

this out. This is the coolest thing in the world. I

9:00

like to think Rick could appreciate it, but he uh,

9:02

I don't know. You have to tell us Rick. I

9:04

wish Rick had one of those dials. You

9:07

could just tell how. I want

9:09

to get some dials installed in here where

9:11

people that are in can turn it up if they

9:13

like what they're hearing, and turn it down if they don't,

9:16

because it would improve the quality of the show so much.

9:18

Yeah, but you'd be looking at the dial. That's

9:20

all I would look at right now, I just look at the timer. If

9:23

there was a dial and all

9:25

the dials minute by minute ratings, that's

9:28

what you want. Yes, I don't know everyone

9:30

in here had a dial, and in all those

9:32

dials, people don't know what they want. All those dials

9:34

were collated into a single meter. So

9:37

Kurt might be like zero zero zero

9:39

doesn't like this story. Great, could

9:41

be like I love it, and Ridge poonders like ten ten

9:43

so it's throwing me or whatever. Five. That's

9:47

how you get mediocrity. I feel

9:49

like when I tell you what I'm gonna now tell

9:51

you this, that son of a bit should be code

9:53

read ten.

9:58

Okay, they got some foot prints, hear this out?

10:01

They have some footprints today know are

10:03

at least ten thousand years old.

10:08

In the White Sands. Outside of the closed

10:10

area, they can't follow the trail into

10:13

the top secret part of the missile range.

10:15

They're not allowed to follow the trail in it.

10:17

It's a long trail of

10:20

a barefoot person. They

10:23

feel it was a young mailer woman

10:25

based on shoe size, carrying

10:29

a child on their hip barefoot.

10:32

How can they tell that because they

10:36

think it was on its carrying it on its

10:38

left hip because

10:40

now and then they'd set the kid down. Oh,

10:43

and they would have the footprints.

10:45

So it's a youngish

10:48

male or female carrying

10:50

a child, occasionally setting the child

10:53

down. The child walks with

10:55

when the child's not walking, the gate

10:57

of the person changes in their way. There

11:00

a more weight on the left HIPO.

11:04

They walked one way

11:08

and then they came back on their same trail,

11:11

and in the time they

11:14

were gone, a mammoth

11:16

and a giant ground sloth stepped

11:18

on their tracks, and

11:21

they're able to the

11:25

mammoth and ground sloth tracks on

11:27

the person's tracks. And then the person came

11:29

back over the same trail, crossed

11:32

the mammoth and ground sloth tracks, not

11:34

carrying the child. Oh my god,

11:38

not carrying the child, not caring. They

11:40

brought the kid, oh

11:42

wherever. Someone's like,

11:44

hey, can watched my kid? And you're like,

11:48

I slot, can

11:51

you, like whatever? Can you watch my kid today?

11:55

I'm having a date night,

11:59

So if you don't mind, bring it back

12:01

over to my camp later. What

12:03

wouldn't the climate have been ten

12:06

thousand years ago in New Mexico in that

12:08

area

12:15

they definitely had and there

12:17

was mud. Yeah, there was MUDs. It's not like it

12:19

wasn't frozen. But there's a mammoth. That's

12:22

why they know the date. I think it's like it's obviously

12:24

like you gotta think it

12:26

wasn't the last mammoth, but

12:31

that it was the last mammoth that crossed

12:33

her trail. Yeah,

12:36

so you

12:38

know, the clock changes

12:40

all the time, Like the first humans to arrive here,

12:43

the fashionable number used to be like thirteen

12:45

thousand years ago. Now they got sites sometime

12:49

around twenty years ago. Mammoths

12:52

were largely gone by, you know, twelve thirteen

12:54

thousand years ago. So somewhere in that

12:56

window there's a theory

12:59

that not really a theory

13:01

that you couldn't

13:03

have peopled the America's prior

13:05

to the invention of the eyed needle.

13:10

Like, they had to have had tailored clothing because

13:12

they came through Siberia. Oh

13:14

yeah, so these are people that had

13:16

to have had

13:19

to have known how to make footwear, had

13:21

to have known how to make parkers because

13:24

of where you know they came from.

13:28

Where's the meter at rick? Pretty high

13:30

into it. Tell me more, Steve, he

13:33

could go Roger Ebert and he'd

13:35

be thrown a couple of thumbs right now, so

13:38

rix meters? Yeah, like

13:41

high. So these tracks

13:43

just the sand eventually blew away and they

13:46

walked in the mud. I'm

13:48

looking. I got the thing right now, so

13:51

it's like sandstone now yeah, well

13:54

no, because here's the thing. I'm

13:56

looking at the article trying to not just

13:58

have to read the damn article, but it they

14:03

walked in the mud, and we're sliding

14:05

a lot in the mud

14:08

and wish they had some schnaze boots or something.

14:10

Yeah, I wish they had crampons or something. They

14:13

were sliding a lot in the mud and

14:17

dodging something like

14:19

now and then revering and hopping. They

14:24

throw mud puddles, are mammoth ship whatever.

14:29

They had some hops, so

14:32

yeah, they'd set the kid down and rest down, then

14:35

kid a mill around. What

14:38

what happens is um, So there's four

14:40

hundred footprints and

14:46

they would make

14:48

a track in the mud and then things

14:51

with dry and sand and blow in the

14:53

problem with they've known about the tracks for

14:55

a while. The minute you excavate

14:58

the track and reveal it, it's

15:01

it vanishes. Oh

15:04

man, So they film

15:06

it or some purposefully, don't you know, going and

15:08

do them all. But

15:11

they said, it's full of White Sands National Park.

15:13

It's full of these old prints. That's

15:16

crazy. That's really cool. And there's a

15:18

slight shifting coloration that will reveal

15:20

the tracks when you guys were down there called ghost

15:22

tracks when you guys were hunting,

15:24

did you was it that that climate

15:26

that you left your mark? Oh? I'm

15:28

sure someday they'll dig it up and

15:31

be like, uh, they'll find me

15:33

in South in there real

15:36

vibro logo. Some guy really knew

15:39

what was up with some dude kind of I

15:42

didn't really know what was up. You can tell his tracks.

15:46

No, that's great, that's

15:48

an interesting story. Now with

15:50

your meters high, it's gonna make your meters

15:52

go lower. I had a I

15:55

was telling a story about my kid getting a nap

15:59

a red legged fly in his ear? Do

16:02

you ever have that? Courts

16:04

horrible. I feel like you'd have that because you hunted him

16:07

Alaska so much and stuff. Well, yeah, the

16:09

little no cms that climbed around, but you never

16:11

one against your ear drum. No, not with the one

16:13

that I couldn't get out. It sounds terrible. It

16:15

was in there, and it was. It was so bad. It was affecting

16:18

his equilibrium and making him nauseous. Oh

16:21

man, So how old was he

16:23

when this was happening? Just the summer hunting cariboo?

16:25

Well, we were actually butchering carriboe back at the air

16:28

strip at the not the air at the air carrier.

16:31

So was it alive and there kind of moving

16:33

around and freaking him out. I was with this dude,

16:36

this old roommate. I had this dude named

16:38

Dan one time, and

16:40

he got a

16:42

cat is fly. We're fishing.

16:45

He had a hell of a night that night. He caught a bat

16:47

on his back cast and he didn't like that one bit. Then

16:51

he uh

16:53

got a cat is fly in his ear and

16:56

full whipped. Then

16:59

he slept in his car and wouldn't

17:01

get out to peaks he thought a mountain lion was going to get him.

17:07

Um, that

17:09

reminds me real quick. I'm putting this. If you can go

17:11

and look on Instagram, you'll see this picture. Just dude to send

17:14

us a picture of a pelican that

17:18

goes down in his ditch and catches

17:20

a carp. Tries

17:23

to fly away with the cart, but it's such a heavy load

17:25

he can't get elevation, goes

17:27

into the power lines, hits

17:30

the power lines, catches

17:33

on fire god lands

17:35

and starts a brush fire je

17:39

and he sends a picture of the pelican land there,

17:41

hung up in a barbed wire fence with a big

17:43

fire scar moving away from it

17:45

across the ground, still with the cart hanging

17:47

out of his mouth. That

17:50

kind of day. That's kind of day this dude had. And

17:53

we got it out with a pair

17:56

of fishing hemus like a hemostat. Oh you were

17:58

able to go in and do the catos when this dude

18:00

Dan had it happened to him and we practically

18:03

had to pin him down. Yeah.

18:06

Um, well my boy got it. Someone's

18:09

like put hydrogen peroxide in there, and

18:11

we dumped hydrogen peroxide there and holy ship,

18:13

that bug come out in a hurry

18:16

well. Our resident physician here

18:18

at Meat Eater, Adam Lazarre, wrote in

18:20

advising don't do that. He

18:26

says, on average, he's an

18:28

emergency room. He's been on the podcast.

18:31

Uh. When he was on

18:33

the podcast, the thing I remember

18:35

most is that you remember, like for our whole

18:37

lives, for our everyone in this room, our

18:39

age group, car crashes

18:42

where our lead cause of death had

18:45

always been that. When he was on

18:48

um, opioid overdoses

18:50

had surpassed car

18:52

crashes as

18:56

the thing that will kill you man,

18:58

cardiac arrests. No, that

19:01

kicks in next between

19:04

thirty and four year Yeah,

19:06

it was like it had always been like vehicular

19:09

collisions would kick in it like eighteen or something

19:11

like that, or sixteen, and then up

19:13

to a certain date like that's what that would be

19:15

your lead cause of death, and then it switches to like heart

19:17

disease and all that. Ship. But opioid

19:20

overdoses for males, opioids

19:24

were killing more dudes than

19:26

cars. Jeez,

19:29

it's a real problem. I got a bug ear thing. Could

19:32

I didn't know? Please hold tight talks, let

19:34

me finish my thing. That's why, because I need to point

19:36

this out because he's like He

19:39

gets people four and five times this summer um

19:43

in the emergency room, moths and

19:45

whatnot in people's ear

19:49

canals. He uses a very viscous

19:51

light of cane to drown the bug

19:54

and anesthetizes the ear canal. Oh

19:57

so he doesn't want because he's a doctor and he has access

19:59

though, and of cool stuff. He like

20:02

pain relieves and

20:05

wipes out the bug. He

20:07

suggests, if you're gonna do this at home, dump mineral

20:09

oil in there. Huh,

20:15

it's hydrogen peroxide is too strong

20:17

of an oxidizer. If

20:20

you had a hole in your tympanic membrane,

20:24

the chemical could possibly damage the inner

20:26

ear on the other side of the membrane. Also,

20:29

you don't want that bug moving around vigorously

20:35

drowned. You put that oil in there. And he's like, he's

20:39

not like, is that why your

20:41

kid ran into the truck with the snowblower

20:43

this morning? Is he all right? No, he just

20:46

ran he

20:48

also uh, he

20:51

also just he

20:53

doesn't look where the snouts pointing, Oh

20:56

yeah, just right in my face,

20:59

man, and then crashed

21:01

into the Oh, he's having a great

21:03

time. Crashed into the truck. And then

21:05

he like sees the neighbor shoveling and abandons

21:08

our whole project to go over there and save the day with

21:10

the snowblower. It's

21:12

like, yeah, go over He's like that

21:14

first and stuff does he does? He gotta matching

21:17

many jigging ones. He like you you g um

21:24

go tell me your buckstory. Oh just on fire

21:26

and setsmate known about

21:29

this too, But firefighters moss

21:31

in the ears. It's coming because if

21:33

you're doing like nighttime fireline

21:35

cutting, all these bugs are

21:37

flying around and you've got headlamps and so a lot

21:40

of times though whatever whatever

21:42

reason though right into the ear

21:44

and they drawn to the headlamps. So

21:47

we had our superintendent on the shot

21:49

crew, got one stuck in for like

21:53

a day and just yeah, like you're

21:55

saying, just driving him make him nauseous. Yeah

21:57

yeah, he was like, out, have

21:59

you been glad to be uh not

22:02

firefighting this summer? Yeah? Yeah,

22:04

no, I mean you miss the camaraderie. But hell,

22:07

hell no, you don't get camaraderie hanging out with

22:09

us. No, that's what I mean. I got. I got that

22:11

and that's all that I got from firefighting. So

22:13

that's all he liked about it. Yeah,

22:17

yeah, do you mind real quick sharing what's

22:19

going on with you guys, A little dipping, like

22:22

where you're at with the dipping right now? The different products

22:24

you guys are into now that Kurt

22:27

reunited Kurt's patch, that's one

22:29

thing like that monastic bullshit that falls apart.

22:31

Dude, it's Kurt as a nicotine addiction.

22:33

No, but he stuck to his throwing

22:36

a day. That's not added. You haven't had one to day

22:38

performance and hancing out there and you've been

22:40

around these guys. Yeah, and

22:42

you still Terence. You're stuck to not buying

22:45

anything, yeah about anything. Oh

22:47

so that's why how you draw the line. Yeah,

22:50

but it's a little chink in your armor. Man,

22:57

a sucker person do Yeah,

22:59

what what's product you're using nowadays? I mean it's

23:01

zen. It's just it's straight up science nicotine.

23:05

It's nicotine powder, so there's

23:07

no tobacco product. So it doesn't

23:09

make you have cancer, that's what they say.

23:11

But again, as we're talking about at the trail

23:13

Head, it's only been out for like a year or

23:15

something, a couple of years. They don't know. It's probably

23:17

worse for you than but hasn't haven't

23:20

we proven that nicotine can like nicotine

23:22

itself can cause cancer. That's what I had this argument

23:25

with someone I don't know, but I

23:27

just assumed that. No, I think, yeah, nicotine

23:29

alone is a carcinogen or whatever. I

23:32

don't know about that. Yeah the

23:34

fact checker, Yeah, fact checker, I definitely

23:36

be wrong about but

23:38

it is less. It's definitely less abrasive

23:41

and more convenient. So it's

23:44

uh. I I started him to quit

23:46

chewing, and I just double

23:54

yeah. Yeah. Years ago,

23:56

Garrett was down in South America with his quit

23:59

and plan was, did you bring like

24:01

a brand you were gonna

24:03

quit while you're gone? Yeah? And the

24:05

plan was to bring a brand you didn't like, Yeah,

24:09

so you weren't gonna quit, yeah, it

24:12

was yeah, it was you're gonna bring a brand

24:14

you didn't like. Well,

24:16

and so you brought Grizzly. Yeah.

24:19

And then I ended up finding when

24:22

I ran out, I went a couple of days and then

24:24

like spent a week focused on

24:26

finding nicotine,

24:28

and I

24:31

found the general at a like Norwegian

24:33

hostel or something, and

24:36

then you got dope. Yeah. And then Garrett

24:38

was saying he got back home and went into a gas

24:40

station and the cans were talking to him

24:42

from behind the counter and buy

24:45

me. Okay,

24:50

so your flavor now with you like white brand

24:52

it school classic long cut in uh

24:55

um, but you also like have some

24:57

of that and then you just have straight nicotine

25:00

and then you have some more long cut. Well I used to

25:02

put them both in at the same time. I

25:04

mean, if there's beers involved. Sometimes

25:06

but usually usually

25:09

I would go but you'll find surprising.

25:11

I'd only do to choose in the morning, to

25:14

choose in the afternoon, and then you

25:17

know, cocktail hour. It's kind of game on the

25:22

cocktail hour. Do you run one long

25:24

one or you rotated out between

25:27

beers? Yeah, one long one kind of is

25:29

the two choose um one

25:31

right after another at in

25:34

the morning and oh no, no, it's

25:36

it's up to me. But so if I burned those two choose

25:38

before tanna, I gotta wait till twelve

25:42

so I can't get you seft me down in the engineering.

25:45

So it looks great,

25:47

it looks like so much more authority. I know, whatever

25:50

you said. But now i'd be like, oh, you'll tell me

25:52

more. That's

25:55

like power sitting over this

25:57

this board, lights and knobs and slide.

26:00

It's intimidating. But now

26:02

now instead of having a break from nickotine.

26:04

I pop his in in. Dude, I read one

26:06

of those ins yesterday for like four I'd

26:08

like disintegrated my lips and we were loping

26:10

all the steep stuff that I got all stressed

26:13

out about. I ran it for the whole

26:15

day, which may or may not have

26:17

helped, you know, framed in

26:19

our studio here is my favorite possession

26:21

in the whole world is when Dirt made

26:24

the cover of dip Aficionado magazine. Rick's

26:26

photo when we were in uh

26:28

Wyoming Anglo punning. Um,

26:31

I think chat was that you that gave Rick

26:33

one of those inns. Oh there's

26:36

one thing about this that cannot be spoken.

26:39

What who was doing? What dipping?

26:43

Oh yeah, there's a top secret

26:47

dipping. My My dipping was not top secret.

26:50

Don't tell any stories about

26:58

I had it in for like in it and I was like, oh,

27:01

yeah, I got all light headed. I'm not a nicotine

27:03

did you have to defecate? But

27:06

I know people use it for that reason. My brother,

27:09

his colon has a

27:11

annex that

27:14

there's a coal that his colon has an

27:16

offshoot colon that needs nicotine

27:19

to it's always loaded. Because

27:24

he's like, I could taking

27:26

a growler could be the last thing on my mind,

27:30

like zero need to take a growler the

27:33

minute he has a dip. There it is. So

27:35

the only explanation is that there's a

27:38

part of annex to his colon

27:40

that is activated, that's locked

27:42

and loaded nicotine and the

27:44

primer, the primer

27:47

that the spark, the

27:49

flint and steel so to

27:51

speak, is uh

27:54

dip because then there it is over

28:00

kind you had that happened at

28:02

my oman camp. You

28:04

were having issues. Yeah,

28:06

I mean it definitely keeps me regular, that's

28:08

for sure. Is that why you use it? Yeah?

28:10

I'm kind of like Yanni when I think,

28:13

yeah, once you travel. Me and

28:16

my brother one time we're on an elk hunt. My

28:18

brother is the same way, and I swear we

28:21

both didn't go for six

28:24

days.

28:27

But our stomachs don't bloat. It's just

28:29

like we eat, and so it goes somewhere. It

28:32

all up into the tobacco annex. But that the

28:36

the dip definitely helps the ends. Just

28:38

for my wife listening, it

28:41

doesn't cause cancer. The

28:44

research didn't they say vaping was better

28:46

for you than smoking. I

28:50

just looked it up. Nakeotine. They're doing some research

28:52

about its rolling as a cancer causing

28:54

agent, and if not itself, it metabolis

28:58

metabolizes into some chemicals that are

29:00

cancer causing, so after you ingest

29:02

it just pure nicotine. They always thought that

29:05

the other substances were the oh

29:08

too, but some of the you know, the gum

29:10

and some other stuff could still Yeah,

29:12

but when it get like if you go to like calor

29:14

like, it can't be like the California kind of cancer.

29:16

Yeah, because that's heavy. That's everything.

29:19

Everything I buy you

29:21

can't. He already knows in California, get airplane,

29:25

you're gonna get cancer for getting on the airplane.

29:27

Fishing. Fishing cancer known

29:30

by the State of California to cause cancer.

29:33

A sinker, Yeah, but I think nicotine

29:36

is probably in a more reasonable category

29:38

of Hey, it's better than opioids though. Yeah.

29:43

So I don't want to be labor the thing. But I was telling you

29:45

what I want to do is get into um

29:49

oh the child. When we're down in New

29:51

Mexico, I had a dip off of a

29:54

tell everybody what that was. I liked a lot um

29:56

it was. Yeah,

29:58

I can't remember that name. Mike Rule had

30:00

it. I'm gonna remember because Daniel Morgan

30:03

wrote the best Daniel

30:05

Boone, Robert Morgan,

30:08

the guy by the last name of Morgan, the best

30:10

Boone biography. So I'm gonna remember. I like

30:12

Daniel Boone and I

30:15

like that. I

30:17

remember because I used to buy well, I used to

30:20

dip or ch Levi Garrett

30:23

when I was like in college and stuff, just like side

30:25

hack? Was that a dude, Levi Garrett? I

30:27

don't know, it makes jeans too write or no,

30:30

I don't know, never mind, you know what.

30:33

I'll tell you something. But if

30:36

like the Morgan ship was cheaper, so if I

30:39

was running low on fund said by Morgan instead

30:41

of oh, Morgan's cheaper

30:43

than Levi Garrett. Yeah, so

30:45

what this dude does? This dude Mike

30:48

Rule, uh,

30:52

quit you but

30:55

still choose. How's

30:58

that work? Because he beat the same

31:01

thing. He beat the addiction so

31:05

thoroughly that

31:07

he can now just have a recreational

31:09

dip and

31:12

then not dip for weeks. It's

31:15

kind of like a dude that quit smoking

31:17

cigarettes, but like has a cigar every

31:20

once in a while. That's exactly That's a great

31:22

way of looking at it. Yeah, I'd argue

31:24

that I'm a recreational dipper though, it's

31:26

just timelines different. I

31:30

know Ronnie Bam, who mostly Ronnie

31:33

Bam got addicted to cigarettes through

31:36

cigar smoking. He went to the other directions. He

31:39

started smoking stogies. He might

31:41

tell you this story a little bit differently for both my observation.

31:44

He's no, I think he'd agree. He started smoking

31:47

like old man type stogies,

31:50

you know, like big fatties, then

31:54

started smoking like little dinkers

31:57

and that was basically smoking stogies. It looked

31:59

like a brown cigarette, and

32:01

then just went to cigarettes. It's

32:05

like one of those things like you know those like evolution

32:08

charts or like a little monkey. He turns into a bro.

32:11

It would be like a dude turned into a little monkey

32:15

his like path. Yeah, so

32:19

so he's off this because I remember on that. I

32:22

don't know where he's at right now, but he was. He was

32:24

chain smoking, uh

32:26

Swisher sweets.

32:30

Dude, he like he like monkeys one off

32:32

the other. Yeah. Yeah,

32:35

Like that's like smoking cardboard roll like

32:38

tobacco rolling cardboard man. Speaking

32:41

of bone, here's the here's an art little thing I want to

32:43

talk about. Uh,

32:47

this is this is a this is applicable to me and Seth

32:50

because me and seth there are going on a muzzleloader

32:53

flint lock. We're gonna help with some flintlocks

32:56

old old style hunting. On

32:59

a recent podcast US we were talking about, uh,

33:05

like did front

33:09

did you did? Did users of muzzleloaders

33:12

not people who are like doing it for funzies, but like people

33:15

who are actually shooting muzzloaders. Um,

33:19

did they free poor powder or did they measure

33:21

powder? And

33:26

and when you're watching old westerns, they're always free

33:28

porn, right. This

33:31

guy rolled in, he said, there's this thing you need to consider

33:33

about this part

33:36

of measuring today is because we have standardized

33:39

powder. Back

33:42

then, he said, it was way more art than science.

33:44

And you're like, powder was all it

33:47

was highly variable And

33:50

I forgot about this detail. As Boon would

33:52

even make his own powder. How's

33:55

that? Well? The first time he went over the Cumberland

33:57

Gap, he was going on a year long He

34:00

hunted and built up a small

34:02

fortune of hides, otter

34:06

beaver, deer hides. The

34:08

pawnees stole him, stole

34:10

his stuff, decided

34:12

to stay an extra year, worked

34:15

up another big load they

34:17

stole that came

34:21

back empty handed. So

34:23

he was gone two years, ran

34:26

out of gunpowder and he

34:28

got sulfur from

34:31

deposit. He

34:34

got

34:38

burned willow, so he got back

34:40

guano for phosphate, phosphate

34:43

batgwando for phosphate, burned

34:46

willow and had ash which

34:48

was some component of it. Got

34:50

sulfur from uh

34:53

like a lick, like a deposit, and

34:56

then use his own piss. They

34:59

would wet the mixture. They'd

35:01

make the mixture and wet it with your

35:03

own piss. Then

35:06

you'd spread it out and let it dry

35:08

and you'd make this poderway this dude wrote in

35:11

talking about that's insane. Then

35:14

it was like what all powder was different?

35:16

So the fact that you're like old Bessie shoots

35:18

best with a hundred grains of powder would be depends

35:21

on it just wouldn't even be like in their thinking.

35:24

It would be that there's hot powders and shitty

35:26

powders and powders that got wet

35:28

too many times and you drive them back out and

35:31

it would just be just very touch and go all the

35:33

time. Um,

35:35

So you'd figure out your powder amount for

35:38

that batch that you had just

35:40

a very fluid. And

35:43

I think you got to think about like now when dudes,

35:45

um, Now, when people

35:48

hunt with most

35:51

loaders, do you use any kind of like archaic

35:53

ar chick technology. This is the thing I ponder

35:56

all the time. It's like

35:59

you're abbling in a thing that was just

36:01

what people did and new. So

36:04

if you're let's say you're boone, your

36:06

father had one of these, you

36:09

had one of these, shot one of these.

36:11

From the start, it was regarded

36:13

as a technological advancement. It

36:16

was a cutting edge piece of equipment.

36:21

It wasn't you weren't like fussing. You weren't

36:23

like messing with something. You

36:25

weren't like experimenting with something. It would

36:27

be the same as like their relationship

36:30

to that technology would be

36:32

like your relationship to your phone, just

36:36

very ingrained, daily

36:39

ingigrained, highly intuitive. It's

36:42

like it wouldn't you know, it's not like

36:44

now like, oh, we have this date set where

36:46

we're gonna go shoot flintlocks, you know, and

36:49

blow our faces off. It

36:51

would be just like you lived it all

36:54

the time. So I just probably didn't feel

36:57

like how we think it felt. But

37:00

I'm sure there's improvements within within

37:02

each of those technologies that they're really excited

37:04

about totally, like little

37:07

small things like like smooth board to rifle

37:09

barrels, yeah, or big advancement.

37:13

What are what are you guys shooting? Is it rifled? What's

37:17

the range for you guys? This hunt?

37:20

I guess depends on the person, but I'm

37:23

I'm looking fifty yards and in tick

37:27

liquor? What's

37:31

yours? Steve? Like close like

37:36

the bull. I wounded the bull and lost it last

37:38

year with the not even Yeah

37:41

you didn't even have an explosion go off in your face. Dude.

37:43

That thing hit the ground too, that

37:46

bowl. Yeah, so

37:49

they lose their the they're

37:51

just not they're not hauling ass. Yeah,

37:54

they're not hauling ass. I think you know,

37:56

when I hit that bowl, I think got you know, hit it high

37:58

up on the shoulder, like knocked down. But

38:00

he just got up and left, like

38:02

left like country. Barely any blood either,

38:05

It's like very little blood. It was like punching him,

38:08

but no, like getting

38:10

shot with a bulletproof. Vest On learned.

38:14

I learned my lesson on that ship. Man. Now

38:16

I'm like Johnny tight when it comes to I

38:19

mean, granted that thing was you know whatever, six

38:21

hundred pounds and

38:23

and that was like a bullet

38:27

type like guess what do they call those sabbots? We're

38:30

true to I think it's true to Bore, wasn't it. We're

38:32

gonna be running patch and ball. Yeah.

38:36

Man, I've greasing my ship with bear grease too.

38:38

D So you take like when you're shooting

38:40

a flint lock, you got well,

38:43

you don't believe me, No, No, it's just funny. No, I totally

38:45

believe you down in my

38:47

mind. You get a little PATCHA it's

38:50

a circle of cloth. What

38:53

are you? What are you smirking about? I just this

38:55

is all I've just I've never heard of this, you

38:57

know, the you know, the old like talking him to it

39:00

that's killed all kinds of very

39:04

high right. We should make our own patches out

39:06

of it, called a bed ticking. It

39:09

was like a prison. It's

39:11

like a prison. Suits like blue and white striped

39:14

ship and you cut. I cut

39:16

square patches, not round. Nope,

39:19

there are square patches. I learned all this from

39:21

um, good family friend,

39:23

the FETs your family. That sounds like a old muzzleloader

39:26

family. That's

39:28

yeah, that's who got got me into it.

39:30

Yeah, because it feels like the van fausen Burghs,

39:34

I'd like, um.

39:39

But yeah, we would cut our own patches

39:41

and grease them up.

39:43

And then they would you use for Greece.

39:47

I think we use I don't remember exactly what it

39:49

was. Oh, you know what we could use bear

39:51

grease would be spython oil. There

39:53

we go. Oh, I bet no one's doing that ship.

39:56

No, man, we'll bring python because I got a court

39:58

burning home in pocket.

40:01

Python oil. Oh, we had the snake

40:03

biologist on works in the pythons down in Florida.

40:05

He gave me a court or rendered snake oil. Whoa,

40:08

what do you use it for? The grosses

40:10

me out? And not use it for anything. He

40:14

gave it to me as he gave it to me as a oddity.

40:17

Oh not as like here, cook your eggs with this. No,

40:19

it's like a thing that you have and then you when

40:21

people come to your house, you're like, see that he

40:27

didn't he sent to me without tightening the lid down very

40:30

tight? Oh yeah, Um,

40:32

anyway, that's like utterly

40:35

disgusting. Does the smell gross? No, but just

40:37

the thought of it. Yeah, snake oil, snake

40:40

oil. Oh yeah, medicine you're talking about drinking.

40:42

Would you drink that? Curt Absolutely not

40:46

unless if it increased

40:48

your efficiency? Probably, I don't

40:50

know. I don't know, man, Um,

40:53

but anyway they would they would pour their own

40:56

they'd cast their own balls caliber

41:00

Fatskers, Fetzers, fetzers.

41:04

Really, man, we used to

41:06

have cast No, I never cast my own balls. We

41:08

used to go down to the gun range. We

41:10

gotta get to talk about what we're supposed to be talking about. But

41:13

real quick, I want to hear what I want you to explain.

41:15

It's more seth. But we used to go down to the gun range

41:18

and sift through the bank

41:21

the berm get the lead and

41:24

we would cast our own sinkers, you

41:26

know. Cool. And Ronnie Bam

41:29

makes his own bird shot, yeah,

41:31

which is cool as ship. You ever see

41:33

that done, Kurt, No, I haven't. It's

41:36

through a drop. It's

41:39

just formed through the air. That

41:42

would be cool. Like they used. There's a thing

41:44

called a shot tower. I've heard

41:46

of that, but I didn't know how How how tall does

41:48

it have to be? Tower is tall? You're

41:50

just like dripping little driblets of lead

41:52

and they fall down this shaft

41:55

and cool it formed into a sphere in

41:57

the air like a rain drop, and by the time they hit

41:59

the ground owned they're cooled. Ronnie's

42:02

a little deal. Was he doing an indo oil and

42:04

water. I thought was it water oil?

42:07

I wasn't there. I just remember seeing it on the show. I

42:10

think he drops him into I

42:12

can't remember. But he's got this little thing. It's got a

42:14

little aperture on it. You melt

42:17

lead, get cancer, dump,

42:20

dump the lead into this bucket, and the buckets

42:23

got a little tincy tincy apt a whole

42:25

bunch like a series of I can't remember twenty

42:27

or a dozen little apertures like pinholes.

42:30

And the pinhole determines the shot size.

42:33

Right, So you dump the molten lead

42:36

in, have a cigar, drink

42:39

a whole bunch of beer. It's like the Ronnie Bam recipe.

42:42

Sit in a closed area or whatever. Uh

42:46

and Out dribbles all of his

42:48

But I mean this dudes like a like

42:51

a he's a tinker, Like he's like he could make

42:53

anything. He's like remember in the end

42:55

of the A Team, they'd always find like a sweet shop.

42:58

Yeah, like he Ronnie smoke. Those

43:00

dudes on from the A Team like to rig

43:02

up ship in a shop. Uh

43:05

and Out would dribble all these little dribbles

43:08

and they'd fall through the air and land and where would

43:10

hell? He cooled it with oh some

43:13

I'm liquid water, water

43:16

would cause bubbling in it. He dripped into

43:18

some kind of oil. But I don't remember dealing

43:21

with a bunch of oily ash shot. I

43:26

was any good at fact check, and he had this ship figure

43:28

out, so failing.

43:32

Uh go back to the fencer's Yeah,

43:35

no, I'm just saying that they'd cast their own their

43:38

own balls and cut their own

43:40

patches and grease the patch. You

43:43

don't know what they what it was, I

43:45

don't remember. I think it was

43:47

just some sort of oil. You just you

43:49

stack a bunch of them up and

43:53

it soaked through. Yeah, so you take your empty

43:55

bear, you got your empty gun, pour

43:58

a shot of powder downs,

44:01

put a patch, put a ball, then

44:03

you gotta seat that ball. Then

44:08

ram at home. Yep. So it's powder

44:10

patch ball ram at

44:12

home. And then if you're in the Western and a dude

44:15

charges you and you don't have time to take the ramrod

44:17

out, shoot him

44:19

right with that freaking ramrod man always

44:21

thinking the lasting Mohicans. When you talk about flint

44:24

lock, did you do that in there? Yeah? Shoot

44:26

someone with the ramrod. No shoots elk

44:28

or something. It's like an opening scene,

44:31

dude. Yeah, He's like chasing it

44:33

or something. It's like very maneuver

44:36

in it. And when I did that,

44:38

when I did that g Q thing where it like called

44:40

the breakdown, Yeah, yeah, yeah, that would

44:42

be covered that um

44:45

yeah, sends that elk a tea kettle,

44:48

put that flint lock like it does like

44:50

a triple somersault off a cliff.

44:53

So uh

44:57

yeah. And then the there's a frizzen

45:00

up. It's a frien Well,

45:02

it's like this little it's hard. It's like a hard steel

45:05

that the flint strikes

45:07

to cause the spark. And there's a little

45:10

buckskin. You got a little square

45:12

flint like maybe three quarters of an inch square

45:14

half inch square. Yeah, and

45:16

there's a there's a little gripper, a

45:19

spring loaded gripper, and you line that

45:21

spring loaded gripper with little chunk of buckskin

45:23

for grip stick the flint in

45:25

that little gripper cock the

45:28

hammer. The hammer goes forward,

45:30

hits the frizzen. What explosion

45:33

No, yeah, the explosion number

45:35

one because under that frizen

45:38

is a little teency quarter teaspoon

45:40

about of fine powder.

45:43

Yeah, Like the frizen is covering up

45:45

a pan full of fine powder. So

45:47

when the hammer comes down hits the frizzen and knocks

45:50

the frizzen out of the way, but still causes a

45:52

spark, and then the spark falls right into

45:54

the flash pad. It's like a rude it's like the rude

45:56

Goldberg is contraption Goldberg

45:59

contraption. So, yeah,

46:02

that's right. The frizzen fly is on a hinge,

46:04

flies forward, moves forward. This

46:07

little quarter teaspoon of

46:09

fine powder ignites,

46:12

and there's a thing called a touch hole, which

46:16

when your gun doesn't work, it's probably cause your touch holes

46:18

plugged up with the fine powder. Yeah,

46:20

that little bucket, that little quarter teaspoon,

46:24

the wall of that bowl has a

46:26

pinhole through

46:28

it that leads into the breach of the

46:30

flint lock. One

46:33

of those sparks from that little thing going

46:35

off hops through the hole. He's

46:39

surprise, and then like he lights

46:41

off everybody in there. So

46:45

it goes like clack boom

46:49

boom, and

46:52

you gotta hold steady. The whole damn time is

46:54

what you guys are doing, like tree stands. It's like we're

46:58

gonna do some little to both that

47:01

sounds setting and then some do some

47:03

mooching, some driving. Uh,

47:06

you don't know this but I'll tell you something. I

47:10

didn't hunt it, but I killed

47:12

a bull buffalo um

47:17

with a flint lock. No

47:20

ship. We're on a reservation

47:23

and they had like they do like these controlled harvests

47:25

on this reservation, and like reservation

47:27

members can go out like

47:29

however they want to do it, they'll go out and you

47:32

can get one and

47:34

just kind of I don't really, it's

47:36

a little bit like it's kind of like a weird

47:39

sort of like you like an experimentation

47:41

with a live thing. I don't want you want

47:43

to sort that out right now. Many ways we went out. I

47:45

shot in the heart, shot

47:47

in heart in ninety yards. Dang, that's

47:50

pretty good. Yeah, it was like it

47:52

was remember when about

47:54

It took about eight minutes, went laid down and died. No

47:57

ship. Yeah, I remember. One of

47:59

the pretty most truth

48:02

about Honey, one of the elk Anny ones Will shoots

48:04

a It was in Colorado or somewhere.

48:06

I think it was with a flintlock too, but

48:09

he shoots an elk with a muzzle loader.

48:12

It was either a flintlock of percussion, but

48:14

old like an old school I

48:16

thought it was cool as shit. Chester.

48:19

You're gonna say something about the greasing. Well,

48:23

it wasn't very important. It was just about lead

48:26

and water. I used to

48:28

build boat anchors, and

48:30

any time lead hit water,

48:32

it was just it like explode on

48:34

itself. That's not well, oh

48:37

that's right because remember yeah,

48:40

I was not explode, but it it

48:42

loses its form. Yeah, like pops and

48:44

loses its form. It it forms into

48:46

weird shapes, just like Latin Yanni's

48:49

laugh. Yeah. Remember when we all

48:51

had to throw the lead in the bucket to predict our future?

48:55

Yeah, I know what you're talking about. You know about this, Chris,

48:57

No, what's that? On New

49:00

Year's Latvians

49:05

melt up some lead and

49:09

throw a job of it into a bucket of water,

49:13

and it tells you. And then you take

49:15

that gob and it forms crazy

49:17

shapes. Then you get a light

49:20

and shine it at a wall and

49:23

hold that gob will led

49:26

that misshape and gob will led to the light

49:29

and it casts a shadow and

49:31

you twist it and see what you see in there,

49:35

and that tells you what will happen to you, or

49:37

it could inform your year.

49:41

I generally tended to see old

49:44

arthritic imagery.

49:47

Oh so it's kind of like a roor shack thing. Like what you

49:49

see is what is gonna

49:52

Yeah, I'm gonna try that with I gonna lab be a neighbor

49:54

across the street from us. I'm gonna try it this year

49:57

with her. Yeah,

49:59

she should test her knowledge about it. Oh,

50:01

she knows. She hangs out at some like l a Latvian

50:04

camp. She like it's like the Latin get

50:06

together. Her name is Anga. Um.

50:10

She has some questionable opinions, didn't she. Yeah.

50:16

I think I had to walk

50:18

away from a

50:20

couple of convos yet because commos

50:23

I was like, you have a

50:25

nice day there, and

50:27

he side and locked the door. Not

50:31

talked to you for a week. All

50:44

right now, Um,

50:47

Kurt, I gotta tell you, Uh, I

50:50

couldn't sleep last night. I slept by, woke up

50:53

many times understandable.

50:57

Just uh. I've

51:00

ever been so um

51:03

not have been just

51:05

just distraught. Uh.

51:10

And largely I was telling these guys

51:12

last night too, I'm having three feelings,

51:15

um,

51:18

anger and disgusted at myself. Well,

51:21

I missed the mountain go to three I'll tell people I just cut

51:23

the chase. I missed a mountain goat three

51:26

yards. Nice, Big Billy Kurt

51:28

feels that it was an ex Yeah,

51:39

I missed the mountain go to three hundred yards, just

51:41

missed right, like nicktim

51:45

not shot some hair off, shot some

51:47

hair off. It's main, Um,

51:50

I know, we'll talk about why I think that happened,

51:53

not that like uh,

51:57

I'll talk about why I think that happened, but but not that

51:59

like I have excuse, like there's

52:01

an explanation of

52:04

the mistakes I made. Right.

52:06

But the three feelings I've been having. One is anger

52:08

and discussed self loathing. Two

52:11

is why am I not more disappointed than I

52:13

am, um, because I feel like I

52:15

should be even more, have more self loathing and anger

52:18

and discussed. And three is just like,

52:20

um, really feeling that I let you down,

52:22

Kurt, oh no, because

52:25

I started trying to

52:27

draw him mount I first applied for a mountain

52:29

goat tag in nine and

52:34

finally in twenty drew

52:39

Mountain go tag. I mean I've drawn him in

52:41

Alaska, but drew Mountain

52:43

Goat tag and h we

52:47

really poured the coals to it for five days

52:51

under Kurt's leadership. Uh,

52:55

snow cold Elevation

52:59

train just struggles

53:01

with visibility, but like I

53:03

mean, like finding goes but just like it wasn't like

53:06

it wasn't like a walk in the park, you

53:08

know, it was kind of like fog

53:10

and whatever, just the annoyance of cold,

53:14

and then they're

53:18

like just a

53:20

chip shot. Yeah,

53:26

and I would have felt like, um,

53:31

yeah, the primary feeling I had

53:34

was that, the primary like, if

53:36

you weren't there, I would have felt not as

53:38

bad as I felt, just

53:43

really horrible waking

53:46

up and just it's like burned in my

53:48

mind. I

53:51

don't know, man, those

53:53

those things are all there. I

53:56

feel like they're they're they're part of the hunting experience.

54:00

Yeah. Yeah, you have to have the highs,

54:02

you have to have the lows to

54:05

kind of have the full experience. Just

54:08

like if we would have walked in there and

54:11

I found to gout on the first day, walk

54:16

up on it hunts over. That

54:19

was twenty two years. You put in for a tag for

54:21

one day. That's not much of an experience.

54:24

Like you know, now you have the whole

54:27

process and it's not over.

54:29

No, it's definitely not over. Good way to look

54:31

at it. I like that. Yeah

54:34

it is, man, but um, it don't

54:36

mean a lot more. Yeah. Well, here's the thing I

54:38

think about though, Uh,

54:42

I'm forty six. I'll

54:44

point out your forty eight. Thank you for

54:46

that. I was like

54:48

the other day, I was like, I was trying to like as

54:51

we're walking out, you know, like

54:54

the walk of shame, right walking

54:57

down the mountain after missing him. Uh,

55:01

I'm like, man, really valuable lesson. Like

55:05

I'll point out a handful of things. Uh again

55:08

not excuses, but like

55:12

a guess at where I screwed up? Um,

55:18

they got their winter coats, yea,

55:21

and I failed. And Kurt later pointed

55:23

out, when you're looking at

55:25

the outline of that goat, there's

55:27

a six inch buffer. It's

55:29

not a goat. No, especially

55:32

this time of year, because it's kind of that even

55:35

though they're starting as you could see, they're starting

55:37

to come into their winter coat, especially

55:39

on those billies, the hair isn't

55:41

so long that it's falling over because

55:44

when it when it starts to get really long, it kind

55:46

of splits down the middle like a hairline like

55:49

on the moscot, and it starts to drape. But

55:52

right now down the

55:54

middle, yeah yeah, no, Like right

55:56

now it's it's like a buzz cut and everything's

55:58

sticking straight up. So

56:02

it could have been more than that. There's a bunch

56:04

of goat. It's not a goat, there's a yeah,

56:06

a bunch yeah.

56:09

And I was when I killed

56:11

one the only mountain goold I got before.

56:14

It was a nanny I shot in

56:17

Alaska, and

56:19

uh, when

56:22

I hit it, it had enough umph

56:25

left to take a couple of steps and

56:27

go off. The abyss

56:32

said, right, yeah, I mean I can show you like where

56:35

this happened. I remember creepy like, how could it? I

56:37

was like, I could show you exactly how it felt. That fired

56:39

me like a like a face like you wouldn't

56:41

believe, and then got

56:44

so much a nurse, you're going that When it did

56:46

hit the slope below it, it just continued

56:48

to go down the wet snow. Um.

56:54

Anyways, it was demolished. It Uh, its

56:56

brain was gone, It's

56:59

skull split open, the horns

57:01

were gone, the brain was

57:03

gone. One of its lungs

57:06

was tucked up into its front

57:08

right ankle gee. The

57:11

hide came loose but didn't

57:13

come off, and somehow when

57:15

the chest cavity erupted in the fall,

57:18

it like sent a bunch of that

57:20

stuff through and so it was like up

57:23

against its knee.

57:27

Oh huge, anyways, something to try to

57:29

avoid. So then it's like, don't

57:32

you don't want them if you hit him, you don't want them

57:34

taking a step. It's not like like generally

57:37

big game hunting, I just play it safe

57:39

and give myself a huge margin for air. And

57:42

I typically, like

57:45

my typical hold is halfway up

57:47

and down, two

57:49

or three ribs back from the shoulder. It's

57:52

like that's you know, and granted's gonna whatever.

57:54

It might take a step or two whatever, but it's just generally

57:57

like done me very well as a

57:59

as a just a you know, general

58:02

little aim spot um.

58:04

Maybe a little lower than halfway, but either way, I was like,

58:07

I gotta I was gonna. I

58:09

wanted to hit it in the high shoulder, hoping

58:11

that it would not go off the cliff behind

58:14

it or wherever walk off from fall off a cliff,

58:17

and then zero

58:20

my rifle at a much lower elevation. And

58:25

the higher elevation is uh,

58:27

you know, there's less friction, so

58:31

you gotta cop. So that's gonna make you a little bit higher.

58:33

I was shooting for a high shoulder, not accounting

58:35

for all that hair um

58:40

and dialed and

58:42

was dialed for perhaps a little bit like

58:45

a tad longer than it was maybe

58:49

maybe, and just sent through two

58:51

of them, like through its right

58:54

over the top because

58:57

the that steeper angle to your at appreciate

59:00

deep angle sharp angle, Yeah,

59:04

which becomes harder to get to

59:06

get an exact range because

59:10

it really depends on exactly where you're

59:12

picking. Well to a

59:15

factor that we were talking about last nights.

59:18

I mean we're posted up

59:20

for a while waiting, which in my mind for

59:22

me not being near

59:25

as successful or tenured

59:27

as you is shooting, would mess with me, you

59:31

know, with scope on the animal for thirty minutes

59:33

or whatever. That that wasn't it.

59:35

No, I was aware of we should

59:37

back up. Well, I might back up and tell the story a little

59:39

bit so, but

59:42

yeah, to get to that part. It

59:44

was better than we were having to wait for the get up.

59:47

And I was nervous about um

59:50

getting chili. Yeah,

59:53

sitting in the snow and then in the little gap

59:55

of visibility was so narrow that you

59:57

couldn't like go and start the proble sense

1:00:00

of trying to put a warmer clothes

1:00:02

on, because then you might get I

1:00:05

killed a nice buck one time, my pants down, not

1:00:08

like what you think, putting trying to get my long

1:00:10

John's on, trying

1:00:13

to get more before the Zippies. Before

1:00:15

the Zippies, I

1:00:18

hiked up to a spot, got where

1:00:20

I wanted to be for the evening sit. Got

1:00:22

to the evening sit, thought I'm gonna

1:00:25

get bundle luck so I'm gonna start freezing my ask because

1:00:27

it's all sweaty, and got

1:00:29

my pants off, started putting my l j's

1:00:32

on lj is around the

1:00:34

ankles and then it kind of had my lj's

1:00:36

up, was getting getting back into my pants,

1:00:39

and all of a sudden, looking, here's the buck I was trying to find.

1:00:42

I got him too. I had to pull

1:00:44

my pants up to run over there, um,

1:00:49

but didn't want to do that because I was afraid the goat would stand

1:00:51

up and move while I was like one arm in

1:00:53

a coat. So I was nervous that I would

1:00:55

started getting shivery, but I never got I wish I could

1:00:57

say that I got shivery, but I never got shivery. Oh

1:01:02

my god, I feel like such a loser. Oh point

1:01:04

I was trying when I was pointing out our ages. Let

1:01:07

me get back to that now, when we walk The whole story

1:01:09

pointing out our ages is. When

1:01:11

we were walking out, I was like, what a learning lesson?

1:01:13

What a learning lesson. But

1:01:15

then I'm like, I feel like learning should

1:01:17

be about wrapping it up. My

1:01:22

kid he did his

1:01:24

first two big game hunts, so he's tanned. You

1:01:27

got a mule deer in a cariboo this year, he's

1:01:29

in. He's learning, right,

1:01:33

I did a lot of learning in my twenties.

1:01:36

I feel like the learning is about done.

1:01:39

No, man never ends because

1:01:42

at a point your performance goes. It's like,

1:01:46

I should be at the the apex

1:01:49

are apex guy?

1:01:51

Still have my physical abilities,

1:01:54

I stive my cognitive abilities,

1:01:57

and I have uh like a

1:02:00

tremendous amount of honey experience

1:02:03

that I've been um

1:02:06

able to get through my

1:02:08

career. Right,

1:02:12

So I'm probably I should be this

1:02:15

should be like at late

1:02:17

forties, should be like what

1:02:19

like you'd think that right

1:02:22

now would be this moment of just

1:02:24

perfection and you don't make

1:02:26

mistakes. It was damned

1:02:28

close, right,

1:02:30

I mean it was that goat

1:02:33

was in a real tough spot to get

1:02:35

on and it took us

1:02:37

a lot of patients to work through

1:02:39

that country. It that that wasn't a

1:02:41

slam dunk, that wasn't let's climb up over

1:02:43

this ridge and as soon as you look over the

1:02:45

top how

1:02:47

long did it take us to get in

1:02:50

a spot where you get a shot

1:02:53

five hours?

1:02:55

It was five hours in

1:02:57

and out of view for a majority of

1:02:59

it. So there's a lot

1:03:01

that can go wrong in that. So yeah, I mean

1:03:03

to your point, yeah,

1:03:07

we should. You feel like you should have

1:03:09

every base covered. But then in

1:03:11

hindsight, I looked back and

1:03:15

given the information we had at the time, I

1:03:17

wouldn't have changed anything that we did. Absolutely

1:03:21

not. When I was sitting there when we finally

1:03:23

found him yards way and

1:03:25

his head away from the stand up, I was

1:03:27

sitting there being like, uh, astounded

1:03:31

by the good fortune m hm. Because

1:03:34

there was a lot of ways when we

1:03:36

were trying to put that little puzzle together,

1:03:38

there was a lot of ways. I also wanted to point

1:03:40

I was called in the middle of the night when I was sitting there, awake

1:03:44

my Once

1:03:46

we got up there and looked when I was flirting

1:03:49

with storming his ridge top would

1:03:51

not have been a good plan once

1:03:54

I saw what it was actually like up there, umen

1:03:59

Like you know, you ever know, when you go storm a ridge,

1:04:01

it could go like you never

1:04:03

know, But it wouldn't have been

1:04:05

a great ridge storm. It would have been

1:04:07

like you could have killed him with a knife.

1:04:10

It would have been like either didn't get him

1:04:12

or got him with a knife by the time

1:04:15

you like when

1:04:17

you when you arrived in his zone, you'd

1:04:19

have been like on him in presume, but he would

1:04:21

not be there anymore. But let's say

1:04:24

he was sort of deprived of smell,

1:04:26

and let's say

1:04:29

there's no sense of vision and no sense of smell,

1:04:32

or sorry, no sense of hearing and no sense of smell.

1:04:34

It would have been a knife fight and you would have gone

1:04:36

off the other edge. So,

1:04:39

yeah, I wanted to point out to you, Kurt, that you're feeling

1:04:41

that storm and the ridge was not smart Um

1:04:45

it was not. Yeah, you were

1:04:48

that that perspective of yours was validated

1:04:50

by the actual layout, which

1:04:52

was not quite how I envisioned it. Yeah,

1:04:55

it was a lot smaller there.

1:04:58

Everything just looks a little bit larger. For

1:05:00

example, we thought that he was sixty

1:05:02

or eighty yards from that pinnacle, and you get

1:05:04

up there and find out that man that's

1:05:06

only ten or fifteen yards or twenty

1:05:08

yards. It's just it's weird how perspective

1:05:12

from that lower elevation, as you're working up

1:05:14

into that country, how it changed changed so

1:05:16

much man um dirt head

1:05:18

pointed out on this billy goat weird stock

1:05:20

and uh dirt to point out

1:05:23

he was bedded on a knife ridge. So

1:05:25

it's like kind of like the primary range, not

1:05:27

even the range, boy, it it's like sort of the primary

1:05:29

ridge line. Andre's he's like a very steep

1:05:31

night finger ridge that comes off it.

1:05:34

And he's better there. He can look everything to the right,

1:05:37

everything to the left, and then straight ahead

1:05:39

is just sky. But it doesn't matter

1:05:41

because nothing come up that thing. And

1:05:44

uh, he's betted on a ridge.

1:05:46

It's no wider than him. Yeah,

1:05:49

he was like his body consumed

1:05:52

the entire width of the ridge top. It

1:05:56

was like laying on a knife Yeah.

1:05:59

I was impressive. And if you roll the foot,

1:06:02

you know, the opposite way

1:06:04

that he was looking, he would have fell

1:06:07

several ft. I wouldn't be

1:06:09

able to sleep up there. No, no,

1:06:12

you roll off those things like heights. Yeah.

1:06:14

We slept down a goofy little ridge like that one

1:06:16

time sheep hunting, and my brother

1:06:20

Matt said, if I'm not here in the morning, throw my

1:06:22

boots off. Can

1:06:27

I ask her the question just to your point about

1:06:30

you think you should get to a point where you're not learning.

1:06:32

I mean, you've accumulated so much knowledge

1:06:35

there shouldn't be learning process and experience.

1:06:38

Did you learn something new this week? Oh

1:06:42

yeah, yeah absolutely. Um.

1:06:45

I think the communication portion. I thought

1:06:48

about that where

1:06:50

we were in the spot where you were set up, and

1:06:54

I was trying to one of the things

1:06:56

that we hadn't talked about his shot placement, especially

1:07:00

to your point about hitting them in the shoulder,

1:07:02

and when we are trying to kind of communicate

1:07:04

back and forth that both of us were on the same page

1:07:07

to try to hit in that shoulder. Afterwards,

1:07:11

I thought I should have communicated

1:07:13

more on the hair that you've

1:07:17

just done that had done that, I'd be picking

1:07:19

blood off from my so

1:07:21

so really it's my fault. I

1:07:25

hope you woke up two in the morning. Yeah.

1:07:28

When I woke up last night, I was like I was up for a very

1:07:30

long time. I remember looking at my phone be like, how is

1:07:32

the only two man? I'm

1:07:35

already like up, just up obsessing.

1:07:39

It just turned into anger for Kurt.

1:07:43

I wanted to know the answer

1:07:46

on my phone now is if

1:07:48

it rings it to this morning? Yeah, in

1:07:51

the end of apocalypse now, Uh,

1:07:54

Kurts doesn't he talk

1:07:56

about a vision of a

1:07:58

snail inching

1:08:01

along a razor's edge. Fact

1:08:05

check, that might have

1:08:07

been re dux. It might have been the extended

1:08:10

cut. No, he like talks

1:08:12

about floating the Ohio River. Is when

1:08:14

he's he's like out of his mind. When Willard

1:08:16

and Kurt's finally meet, Kurt's talks

1:08:18

about floating down the

1:08:20

Ohio River. And because

1:08:23

Willard catain Willard's from Ohio, Kurt's

1:08:26

talks about that he flow to the Ohio River as father,

1:08:28

and he remembers all the smell of the Guardinia's

1:08:32

talks about a snail on a razor

1:08:34

blade, talks about

1:08:36

a concept hitting him like a diamond

1:08:38

bullet. That's

1:08:42

good ship man. Anyways, that

1:08:44

goat was laying out there like a snail on a razor

1:08:46

blade. Uh.

1:08:50

To back up, describe the area we went into,

1:08:52

Kurt Um.

1:08:55

It's it's in a very long drainage.

1:08:58

I'm going to say the entire drainage

1:09:00

is probably close to twenty

1:09:02

miles long. Uh. There's

1:09:04

a road that runs up

1:09:07

somewhere in the ten twelve mile range, So there

1:09:11

is a major portion of the

1:09:13

upper end of that drainage that doesn't

1:09:17

see a lot of foot traffic. There's

1:09:19

a lot of cliff bands, old

1:09:21

growth timber where I wouldn't

1:09:23

say old growth, more like dark

1:09:25

timber patches that run down through.

1:09:28

And then there was a burn that had rolled through a

1:09:30

portion of it as well, So it's

1:09:35

it's really good goat country. Um,

1:09:38

a lot of escape cover, um.

1:09:41

And and then because of the burn, there's

1:09:43

a lot of feed because a lot more

1:09:45

of its open right now than let's say

1:09:47

it was twenty years ago. And

1:09:51

it ties into the back side of

1:09:53

of a lot of roadless

1:09:55

area as well. So you see these goats

1:09:58

being able to use multi pulled drainages

1:10:00

and move between them where you

1:10:03

have a fairly large circumference

1:10:05

of area that doesn't see

1:10:07

a lot of traffic, especially once

1:10:09

they're snow on the ground. And

1:10:12

um, most of it's in the nine

1:10:14

to ten thousand foot range where the goats

1:10:16

are living, and um

1:10:20

they're typically later

1:10:23

in the year like we're at right now. There

1:10:25

isn't a lot of elk population or

1:10:27

deer population, which

1:10:30

also doesn't you

1:10:32

don't see a lot of hunters either, primarily

1:10:35

because of that, and access

1:10:37

becomes very difficult when the snow gets

1:10:39

deep. So it's it's real ideal

1:10:42

goat country, um,

1:10:44

but can get a little bit tricky late in the season.

1:10:47

The lack of other games really noteworthy.

1:10:49

Man, it is it is, And I've

1:10:51

been hunting that area for twenty

1:10:53

five years, and as

1:10:55

we had spoken about before, I've seen

1:10:58

a very noticeable differ prints

1:11:00

in primarily elk populations. It

1:11:04

used to be phenomenal elk counting, and

1:11:08

I think that there's lots of different discussions about

1:11:10

why, uh, some

1:11:12

people would like to point

1:11:14

the finger at wolves. There seemed

1:11:16

to be a transition somewhere along

1:11:19

that line. I can't for sure say

1:11:21

that that's exactly what it is, but

1:11:25

as we were driving into the area, I

1:11:27

think something that was very telling was down

1:11:29

in the valley floor in the

1:11:31

farmland there had to be two hundred

1:11:34

head of elk out

1:11:36

there in out in farm

1:11:38

ground that you would years

1:11:40

ago you would never seen that. And

1:11:43

so whether migrations

1:11:46

are changing or actual what

1:11:49

they're preferring for habitat, it's

1:11:52

kind of anybody's gas. But back to

1:11:54

your original point, it's it's really

1:11:56

neat area in in the fact that it doesn't

1:11:58

draw a lot of people in after

1:12:00

say September, and

1:12:03

so it's it's a pretty cool experience

1:12:05

being able to go on these types of

1:12:07

hunts where you're not seeing

1:12:09

other boot tracks, um,

1:12:12

and you're just not seeing a lot of pressure. Yeah,

1:12:14

it just takes twenty some years to twenty

1:12:17

two years. And then we saw

1:12:19

a number of big horns and it was like like one tag.

1:12:22

How many tags are in there? Yeah? I think one tag

1:12:24

and that unit and that'll

1:12:26

take a lifetime to draw, oh for

1:12:29

sure. Yeah, yeah, if you're lucky.

1:12:33

Um, we went in there and it's

1:12:35

like there's

1:12:38

a thing that happens this time of year. I

1:12:41

guess it could happen anytime of year. Uh.

1:12:43

To film hunts, you know, there's

1:12:46

a lot of there's a lot of logistics and

1:12:48

crew and people got a plan for it,

1:12:51

right, And you need film permits,

1:12:53

and when you get a film permit, you need to like

1:12:55

apply for certain dates. Right. It's

1:12:58

you wind up where you have you

1:13:00

like settle on a date window

1:13:04

and there's a lot of that date

1:13:06

establishes a lot of inertia, right, It's like

1:13:09

like that's the date, you know, because

1:13:11

so and so we got you know, camera guys booked,

1:13:14

and we got our permits for that date. And

1:13:16

then as the date gets closer than you kind of

1:13:18

go like, oh yeah, I forgot about the whole weather part

1:13:20

of this. And as the trip's coming

1:13:22

up, it just gets like just

1:13:26

the picture just gets bleaker and bleaker.

1:13:29

Um of early

1:13:33

kind of not I don't want to say freak. It's definitely

1:13:35

not freak, but a significant early

1:13:39

snow storms, a series

1:13:42

of early snowstorms. Yeah, to winter storm

1:13:44

warnings while we were out, like

1:13:47

actual like Weather Service winter

1:13:49

storm like advisories

1:13:51

for the area. Yeah, like

1:13:54

today we shouldn't be sitting here right now, we

1:13:56

should be up there. But it's supposed

1:13:58

to get fifteen inches of snow there today and

1:14:00

we already got like what foot

1:14:04

overnight it would

1:14:06

have been. Yeah, and then the and

1:14:09

as this as the as our goat hunts

1:14:11

coming up and I'm looking at the weather, there's

1:14:13

sort of like comfort and it

1:14:15

was a comfort factor, which I don't want

1:14:17

to sit and act like isn't a thing.

1:14:19

It's like, of course it's the thing. You know, you

1:14:22

can talk through it and you have the right gear and

1:14:24

make it. But it's still like an issue. Comforts

1:14:27

and issue, um not nearly

1:14:29

the significant of an issue is difficulty

1:14:32

and travel. So you're

1:14:34

already in very precarious just

1:14:37

steep ship. Right, you're a lot of steep ship. And

1:14:39

there's a lot of routes that you can't

1:14:41

take. There's a lot of places you'd like to get

1:14:43

to that you can't

1:14:45

just go in the way that would you

1:14:48

know, just like go to it. It's a lot of like this

1:14:51

and that, and you

1:14:53

know down when you should be going up

1:14:55

and around, you should be going straight in order to arrive

1:14:57

at these like points you want to get to because the cliff

1:15:00

aces and and other things, and you add

1:15:02

snow on there and it just adds this like a little it's

1:15:04

like a level of stress. And like

1:15:06

even that level of stress is like a real thing. Um,

1:15:09

you can tough through it and have the right gear, but it's

1:15:11

like just a thing that's there, and it's

1:15:13

it just changes the experience. But the

1:15:15

primary thing is a visibility. Um.

1:15:19

When I talked about getting that killing

1:15:21

that nanny that I killed some years ago, Ah,

1:15:26

we went into an area and

1:15:28

sat in the fog, just

1:15:31

got to our hunt area, sat in the fog

1:15:34

for three days. Then all of a sudden, poof

1:15:36

it was gone, and we realized that rimming

1:15:39

the canyon walls above us was mountain ghosts

1:15:41

that had been listening to our conversations. I

1:15:44

mean this week, yesterday

1:15:47

was the only day that we had visibility

1:15:49

all day. It was every

1:15:52

other day. It was a window of of clear

1:15:55

Yeah. Um, we we went

1:15:57

in and hiked in and just right away

1:16:00

we went in doing good visibility

1:16:02

and right away just like seeing goats

1:16:04

and when you draw a goat tag, uh,

1:16:07

you're allowed to hunt a nanny or ability.

1:16:10

You're allowed just like a goat, write a mountain goat. They

1:16:13

would prefer strongly,

1:16:16

I shouldn't say they people

1:16:18

that want there to be a lot of mountain goat hunting opportunities.

1:16:21

UM and state

1:16:24

game agencies which really prefer that

1:16:26

you shot a billy. And they'll actually make like I make

1:16:28

instructional videos. I voiced, I didn't like come

1:16:30

up with the material, but I've voiced a video one

1:16:32

time, like read the script for

1:16:35

a Rocky Mountain Goat Alliance video about

1:16:37

how to um

1:16:40

how to tell nanny from ability. They wanted to kill the males,

1:16:43

and I read some statistic ones that if goat

1:16:46

hunters off mountain goat hunters only

1:16:48

killed males, only killed billies.

1:16:51

I don't know this is a statistic I heard. I don't

1:16:53

know if it's how valid. Is if

1:16:55

they only killed billies, there will be four times as

1:16:57

many mountain goat tags. I don't know if that's I

1:17:00

don't know if that holds up. I read that somewhere they

1:17:03

don't want you shooting the females. Um.

1:17:05

I voiced that video, which I'll

1:17:07

point out like I voiced it, but I'm not uh

1:17:11

good at it. I'm not like great at identifying.

1:17:14

Um. I sit there a lats scratch my head looking

1:17:16

at a lot of goats. Uh. For me,

1:17:20

it's like when you see a kid, like a nanny

1:17:22

with an offspring, I'm like, that's a female.

1:17:25

Other than that, I'm like, damn that. My mind

1:17:28

tries to turn everything into a billy. Well,

1:17:30

I didn't. I didn't realize, which I'm sad

1:17:32

to say. The nanny's had

1:17:35

significant horns. I don't. I don't know if

1:17:37

many people know that they gotta they

1:17:40

got a horn. I mean they look and

1:17:42

it was tougher than I ever

1:17:44

imagined to just distinguish other

1:17:46

than they're being, like you said a group of

1:17:48

them that it would be like, oh, those are

1:17:51

nanny's Kurt pointed this

1:17:53

out, and it's actually remember just being in the past

1:17:55

is like another time I drew a goat tag on the Key

1:17:57

nine, didn't get a one because we passed

1:17:59

up many opportun females. I remember,

1:18:01

like every female you look at your like trying

1:18:04

your hardest to turn it into

1:18:06

a mail. But then you see

1:18:08

a billy and it's

1:18:10

like, there's a billy.

1:18:12

Yeah, And I remember we had that same thing out of kena

1:18:15

fence. You saw a billy. We're like, oh, all the time we've been spending

1:18:17

trying to like talk these nannies into being billies,

1:18:19

Like that's the sun bitch and billy, you know, and you just

1:18:21

know what knows that was true

1:18:23

on this one. But seeing all kinds

1:18:26

of nannies, man. And then the second

1:18:28

day of the hunt, we woke up and you couldn't see

1:18:30

ship anything until

1:18:32

like what time of day one too, It

1:18:35

was one o'clock fourth things, and then

1:18:37

you're just seeing parts and pieces. Well,

1:18:40

it was funny. The funniest thing about that day that really

1:18:42

stuck sticks with me is that we

1:18:45

went to a little glass and look out and

1:18:47

we just went there and we couldn't see anybody. Just went there anyways

1:18:50

to sit and see if we get some Claire windows.

1:18:52

And Kurt knew about another little looking spot

1:18:54

he wanted to go check out. That was a

1:18:57

twenty minute walk if at

1:18:59

more, just like wrap

1:19:02

along, wrap across the ridge top and an upward

1:19:04

direction, and you get a look into this other bowl that

1:19:06

actually drains down into a different drainage. And

1:19:09

uh, at one point where

1:19:11

let's go check it out, let's go verify that it's

1:19:13

too foggy. So we very if

1:19:15

we walk up the like, oh wow, it's foggy over here

1:19:17

too, just like we expected, and

1:19:20

walked back and we get and here's the

1:19:22

set of tracks solo, a

1:19:25

single set of mountain boat tracks that not only

1:19:28

walked through

1:19:30

our We're

1:19:32

like literally walked through where we were sitting, we

1:19:35

later learned, walked between two

1:19:38

of our tents and actually

1:19:40

followed our bootprints in our absence

1:19:43

in the in the forty minutes that we were gone,

1:19:46

came through our tents, followed our boot

1:19:48

tracks through our glass and spot, and then

1:19:50

walked and wrapped around the hill. Yeah

1:19:53

literally, like if it was two

1:19:55

inches to the right, it would have tripped on my

1:19:58

my guides from on

1:20:00

my tent, walked like walked

1:20:03

next to the tent within well

1:20:06

within three ft of our fire ring. Yeah,

1:20:09

oh yeah, they're like, I mean, there

1:20:12

must have been so much scent in that zone

1:20:14

of us that it just was and it just walked right

1:20:16

through it. That's that's

1:20:18

Murphy's law. I know it's overdone, but that is

1:20:21

Murphy's love. I don't think that's Murphy's Murphy, what's

1:20:23

your impression of Murphy's lawder if it

1:20:25

could go wrong? But that's not wrong. You know. Actually

1:20:28

I'm gonna adjust that if

1:20:32

a goat, in my mind, Murphy's

1:20:35

if a goat were to walk through camp and

1:20:37

a glass and knob, it would happen

1:20:39

while we're looking. Oh yeah's

1:20:44

you're right. You're right. It is Murphy's lost

1:20:49

through when you're sitting there. Just I

1:20:52

think that they like, I

1:20:55

think the only thing they I think they care a lot

1:20:57

about what they see. The smell

1:20:59

is an so I think

1:21:01

like their whole groove of how

1:21:03

they stay alive is

1:21:06

based off um,

1:21:09

I'll see the problem

1:21:11

and I'll go to a place where nothing's gonna

1:21:13

mess with me. Mm

1:21:16

hmm. Well, and that

1:21:18

that saddle, that pass that we were in when

1:21:21

I had the tag last year, the exact

1:21:23

same thing happened. It

1:21:25

was just over a longer course of time.

1:21:28

I had left camp, went up where

1:21:30

we went, but then I had gone

1:21:32

up over the peak down the back side

1:21:35

and was probably gone for three

1:21:37

hours. Came back and there

1:21:39

were three sets of tracks that came right

1:21:42

by my tent, right through

1:21:44

that. So it's a little goat mag it is

1:21:46

it is, and that that that bowl that we saw,

1:21:48

I was coming right up through there as well. I

1:21:50

think it's almost like a funnel. Yeah,

1:21:53

a little hot like a little hot tip. Is we're

1:21:58

a bunch of ridges whatnot,

1:22:00

kind of like collide together in

1:22:03

a low benchy saddle, it's

1:22:05

gonna come through. Yeah,

1:22:08

it's just like a little funnel. Yeah,

1:22:11

there was what three or four three

1:22:13

drainages that or you know, the

1:22:16

backside, there was a lot coming

1:22:18

to that saddle. There was, um

1:22:20

but yeah, we lost a half day there. Just

1:22:23

don't add their chester. Yeah, that happened actually

1:22:26

multiple times, not just that one time.

1:22:29

Uh, as I was going to glass that

1:22:31

night, there were more tracks in

1:22:33

our tracks going

1:22:36

for the opposite direction. Um,

1:22:38

like four sets of tracks in our tracks

1:22:41

going right up past our camp again right

1:22:44

in our tracks um,

1:22:47

have you been telling a lot of people that you got to play guitar with

1:22:49

Luke Holms? You got to play Luke Holms guitar

1:22:52

and sing? Chester

1:22:54

is not even though, No, I haven't. Haven't

1:22:56

told a lot of you haven't leveraged it socially.

1:22:59

No, he's got a wife.

1:23:04

Yeah, I got a wife and I liked

1:23:06

being a little incognito. Do you real

1:23:09

quick? How you how you been enjoying your marriage? You've been married?

1:23:11

How long? Though? I've

1:23:13

been married since August nine and

1:23:16

things are pretty good. I haven't got kicked

1:23:19

to the couch at or the doghouse, so I feel

1:23:21

like I'm doing pretty good. Did you guys know Chester got married

1:23:24

in a homemade bolow time made out of elk candler.

1:23:26

I don't know that, but I know did Chester make it?

1:23:30

I didn't make it. You're an artist

1:23:32

who made it? You like such a little

1:23:34

craftsman. Sounds like a little bird too. One

1:23:36

of Danielle's friends made

1:23:38

him for us. Seth has one too. Yeah, he

1:23:41

was in my wedding. When I saw a picture of

1:23:43

Seth, he was basically I saw a picture of

1:23:45

Seth a wedding. He was basically at the point

1:23:48

where like some uncle has his neck tie tied

1:23:50

around his head like a headband.

1:23:53

There was a lot of chest in

1:23:56

the night, like

1:23:58

a cloud of smoke around him, like one

1:24:00

aisle open. He probably it looked

1:24:02

just look like he just caught the guard belt.

1:24:05

I think if there have been

1:24:07

a series of photos, like a burst

1:24:09

of photos, it just would have been that picture and then

1:24:11

another following frames of Seth

1:24:13

just slowly tik me down to the ground.

1:24:16

If you'd have had the next time would have been tied around

1:24:18

your head. This is like dancing

1:24:20

like. Sethi was like ready to dance on the table. Yeah.

1:24:23

No, I had been dancing very hard.

1:24:25

He was like, can they play Money Money

1:24:27

again? I

1:24:30

was ready to do anything at that point. Yeah.

1:24:34

He's like, oh, they could just play Celebrate

1:24:38

one more time. If

1:24:40

they've turned on Mombo number five, I'm

1:24:43

gonna burn this place. That's

1:24:46

probably the most tuned up I've ever seen you, Seth.

1:24:48

Oh, is that right? It

1:24:50

was a good reason to party, man, Yeah,

1:24:53

yes, you're getting married. Seth was saying he wants

1:24:55

to um Seth. I don't

1:24:57

know if you caught that, but Seth's kind of wants to go to a bar

1:24:59

with me. Oh yeah, yeah,

1:25:02

yeah, yeah, that's one of my life goals is

1:25:04

to go to a bar with Steve. But we could

1:25:06

we go to bar, does it? What do you do you mean that because

1:25:09

you think that that would mean I'll be real drunk or

1:25:11

just that that will be just I just

1:25:13

like going to dive bars, and I think it'd be cool to just

1:25:15

But what would you want me to do there? Be

1:25:18

be drunk and start a fight? Yeah

1:25:20

I would like that, I mean somebody

1:25:22

with a stool to But no,

1:25:25

I just like chat and I go to dive

1:25:28

bars all the time. Just have a beer. Just

1:25:30

oh I would love to shoot. I want to set

1:25:32

a date to go just after you get your goat,

1:25:35

I thought getting the shot. Oh

1:25:38

yeah, I'll do that right down right down

1:25:40

the street. You got it all picked out?

1:25:43

Yeah, just cross the railroad tracks.

1:25:45

What we set I can't perfect

1:25:47

spot? Oh yeah that place?

1:25:51

Oh yeah? Oh so we want

1:25:53

to get back to this thing though, But no, go

1:25:55

I'll go. I don't go to bars, but I'll go to a bar. We

1:25:58

could buffer you too, because I don't want to get the see

1:26:00

one niner man. I's gonna wear

1:26:02

my mask with a straw. My

1:26:06

brother thinks they ought to rebranded to see one niner.

1:26:08

He likes the sound of that better. It sounds

1:26:11

more aggressive. Um, we're trying to

1:26:13

get a mask and poke

1:26:15

a hole in it and run a straw. That's

1:26:19

drink my shots like that. That should be mandated'll

1:26:21

be like z's free drinking. How

1:26:24

do you close the gap? You're gonna have to

1:26:26

like Chester

1:26:29

Cocke, he's a he's a crafty guy. It is a

1:26:31

bummer coming back into town after being in

1:26:33

the mountains for a couple of days. You're like, you

1:26:35

do forget about COVID and like all

1:26:37

the crazy stuff going on. You're just like, yeah,

1:26:40

that's all still here. You know. It's better than a

1:26:42

straw. Is a big hood where you

1:26:44

can do all your hand functions in a

1:26:47

thing like a bubble. Yeah. Oh yeah.

1:26:49

There's like a little pass through port where they can hand glasses.

1:26:52

Yeah, what's those balls

1:26:56

down a hill? You know one

1:26:59

of those Remember when Et like

1:27:02

when he got all sick that

1:27:04

thing, right, Yeah, be like get to go to the bar

1:27:06

and at I'll go down there and get wasted.

1:27:09

Yeah, but I don't like having

1:27:11

the part of the reason I quit drinking

1:27:13

a lot like the part of reason I quit getting

1:27:15

drunk, um

1:27:18

was because I didn't think

1:27:20

it was fair to my kids, who didn't ask

1:27:22

to be born, right, they

1:27:25

didn't like request to be born. I

1:27:27

didn't think it was fair to them to be hungover in the

1:27:29

morning. Yeah, that's

1:27:31

some that I

1:27:34

mean. And I found myself being like irritated

1:27:37

on days that I would be hung like on a Sunday or

1:27:39

whatever, Saturday, whatever, hell be

1:27:41

hungover and sort of like irritated by their

1:27:43

presence when they were little

1:27:45

because they were needy in

1:27:48

the minute. I had that feeling and

1:27:52

be like, dude, they didn't like ask to come live in the house.

1:27:54

It's like you had him and brought him and

1:27:57

now you're annoyed at him. Should

1:28:00

a made some different decisions, man. Yeah,

1:28:03

that's when I wanted to quit being drunk. No,

1:28:05

that's that's smart. A lot of people don't do this.

1:28:07

Sick of being hungover. Man. But

1:28:10

I had two little cocktails last night. I

1:28:13

had a coffee that you had a little

1:28:15

coffee. I had a coffee and

1:28:17

then I had a giant uh

1:28:19

rum cocon party and coconut.

1:28:21

What do you call that? It's called Jimmy Buffett.

1:28:25

I was reading an article one time in a magazine. It was about

1:28:27

like what celebrities like drink, and

1:28:29

I took note of that. There was Jimmy Buffett was

1:28:31

being featured and he was saying how

1:28:33

you can't get hung over coconut

1:28:36

water drinking coconut water and rum. I've

1:28:38

disproven that, disproving

1:28:42

that, but it's a safe bet zero

1:28:45

hangover this morning. Oh yeah,

1:28:58

Mr. Half day because the fall m yep

1:29:04

tons of Nanny show could have a lot

1:29:06

of shot opportunities on Nanny's stock

1:29:08

opportunities, a lot of me thinking

1:29:11

Nanny's were billies, a

1:29:13

lot of me trying to talk him into being billies,

1:29:17

just at least giving them the benefit of the doubt. Yeah,

1:29:22

But then what was it the

1:29:25

second or the third day that we ended

1:29:27

the third day that we spotted

1:29:29

the one billy that we believe that it was

1:29:32

the one that we got on three

1:29:34

days later. So

1:29:38

and there were a couple of goats obviously that we're

1:29:40

in spots that were so far off the

1:29:45

by themselves that you would suspect that they

1:29:47

were billies, but you just couldn't verify it. Whether

1:29:50

rolled in on a couple that were up high.

1:29:53

Do you think trusting

1:29:56

that we can get it worked out and

1:29:58

you're able to adjust your schedule him go back out

1:30:00

again. Um.

1:30:03

I feel that we would if

1:30:07

we if we spend and we should spend a day or two

1:30:09

on this, I feel like we would find that billy again. Yeah,

1:30:13

yeah, I I as

1:30:16

long as he don't know, I would make that my plan.

1:30:18

But I wouldn't be surprised, and it would you never

1:30:21

really know, But I wouldn't be surprised

1:30:23

that you'd be like, oh,

1:30:25

he's like back in one of those zones that we know

1:30:28

him doing the habit. That would not surprise

1:30:30

me in the least. You know what you said when you spotted him.

1:30:33

Huh, well, yeah, I don't think you can stay it here.

1:30:36

Oh no, no, you

1:30:38

had just spotted a ram

1:30:41

and then you said bingo, oh

1:30:45

yeah, which

1:30:47

is totally family friendly. That is family

1:30:49

friendly, he said, bingo. You

1:30:52

would you would know if if you shot

1:30:54

that goat, probably if it was the same one,

1:30:56

because there might be a little tough to hair missing,

1:31:01

like that bear in the great outdoors. Yeah,

1:31:06

oh my god. Man. Um,

1:31:10

there's six weeks. This

1:31:12

is the will There'll be a part two to this.

1:31:14

There's six weeks of season left. Um,

1:31:20

I just really ah

1:31:25

um, just so

1:31:27

disappointed myself. I

1:31:30

was really disappointed for you at

1:31:32

the time. You give me a hog,

1:31:35

I would have too, I'd still do it, but

1:31:40

I looked that down. Yeah, I

1:31:42

think I think it's just a little

1:31:45

bit of perspective because back

1:31:47

to when we were talking about it earlier, when you put

1:31:49

in for something like this for twenty

1:31:51

two years, I think it's

1:31:53

safe to say that you don't put in for it because

1:31:55

you want to go, yes,

1:31:59

I'm doing this like it would make an exchange.

1:32:01

Yes, it is. It is vastly

1:32:05

about the experience

1:32:07

that you have, the memories

1:32:09

that you make, um, the things that you

1:32:11

learn, and kind

1:32:14

of at least for me, and one of the things that

1:32:16

I really enjoy about this style of hunting is

1:32:18

that it's always pushing your envelope just

1:32:20

a little bit. Um

1:32:23

that you're you're staying out when it's

1:32:25

colder, Um, you're accessing

1:32:28

country that maybe you don't feel comfortable

1:32:30

in. And every time you push that envelope,

1:32:33

your envelope becomes larger and you

1:32:35

become more experienced, and you you become more confident,

1:32:38

and you don't I

1:32:40

don't necessarily get that with other styles

1:32:43

of hunting that you do with the

1:32:45

alpine style, and so where

1:32:49

your experience putting in for this

1:32:51

for twenty two years could have ended at five days.

1:32:55

It's almost like a gift, you know, you

1:32:57

get your tag again, you get to go again,

1:32:59

you get to go have those experience because

1:33:01

it's so much different than than

1:33:04

any other style hunting, at least that I do well.

1:33:07

She hunting is very similar, but

1:33:11

I don't know that. I think that's why it's

1:33:13

it's my favorite favorite

1:33:15

time in the outdoors, and it's not always

1:33:19

the most fun at the time. It's

1:33:22

often the most challenging. I

1:33:24

had been in on a couple of one day go

1:33:26

once and it was a little bit of like my

1:33:28

impression. My old girlfriend has to the

1:33:30

molaster, drew it once and we got it in today. My

1:33:33

brother drew it, got it today. Yeah,

1:33:35

I feel like they can go either way. I've heard.

1:33:39

I've heard lots of stories and and

1:33:41

the odds definitely go up if

1:33:43

you go in on the earlier season. Everything

1:33:46

becomes more complicated in the

1:33:48

late season. You have to have a different kid of gear,

1:33:51

travels different obviously,

1:33:54

whether locating them becomes

1:33:56

as we have seen, extremely tough.

1:33:59

What makes you want to weight just for people

1:34:01

to weariness. What makes you want to wait is that they get

1:34:03

that big crazy hair. Yeah,

1:34:05

because no one in the world is gonna

1:34:08

get a mount and goat and not have

1:34:11

it the rug Tand yeah,

1:34:14

I mean, I'm sure it happens, but

1:34:17

that's generally like it's

1:34:19

like a muskox hide. You're like throwing

1:34:22

a dumpster hopefully

1:34:24

not. No, it's like a thing of great

1:34:27

beauty. It is. Yeah, it's

1:34:29

amazing, and especially this

1:34:31

time of year they get that thick wool because

1:34:34

they end up with the longer guard hairs,

1:34:36

the hollow guard hairs, and then they

1:34:39

get that real fine wool, uh

1:34:42

right next to skin and yeah,

1:34:45

there's nothing like it. So it's beautiful.

1:34:48

Oh, Rich are you willing to talk about your your

1:34:52

Oh yeah, talk to lay out your little decision

1:34:54

making process there day. Well,

1:34:57

so yesterday we got

1:34:59

into uh,

1:35:01

going up to get that go that

1:35:03

we spotted, and we

1:35:07

got into an avalanche shoot and

1:35:10

I don't really know what happened, but

1:35:13

we got to a spot where we

1:35:16

had kind of tucked around. It's

1:35:18

like pretty mellow climb

1:35:22

right, like you could have gone up that in

1:35:24

view of the goat but that stretch was like

1:35:26

wide open. It was almost like pastory,

1:35:28

like very mellow, but

1:35:31

it was in view of where the goat could have been.

1:35:33

So to avoid going up that and getting spotted

1:35:35

and blowing the goat out, we wrapped around

1:35:39

the edge of that, which happened to be one

1:35:43

side of a pretty steep avalanche

1:35:46

shoot and below is just like

1:35:48

a river of timber

1:35:51

and then a little creek below that and

1:35:55

the river of down timber debris

1:35:57

field from an avalanche like pungee sticks

1:35:59

of like giant break yeah.

1:36:02

Um,

1:36:05

and we like started going up that and then I think Kurt

1:36:07

spotted the goat right where you guys were pretty

1:36:09

far away from me and Garrett, and

1:36:11

I think Garrett was in front of me, And then

1:36:14

we had to down climb that. I

1:36:16

don't know what that was like sevent was

1:36:18

that too much? Pretty

1:36:21

accurate? And that was I don't know what what was the

1:36:23

angle? It was steep. I

1:36:25

remember looking at Garrett and being like, this looks damn

1:36:27

near vertical. Man. You stick your arm out

1:36:29

and you're touching the ground. I mean if you stick your arm

1:36:31

out horizontal. And

1:36:34

we had crampons at this point and ice

1:36:37

acts. We weren't on ice. It was still like soft

1:36:39

soil, so you had purchase snow.

1:36:42

Snow though wet snow so it's slippery.

1:36:45

And I don't know what happened, Like something just

1:36:47

gripped me and I just got like

1:36:50

way out of my comfort zone. And I've

1:36:52

never had that happen on any Meat Eater shoot.

1:36:54

I've been shooting the show for five years, and I've

1:36:56

never gotten like totally

1:36:59

freaked and just not. I just felt

1:37:01

like out of my ability to keep

1:37:03

moving. And there's a thing like in climbing

1:37:06

where you just like freeze and you can't you just

1:37:08

like don't know how to make your body move. And

1:37:10

that happened to me like multiple times on

1:37:12

that down climb, and it was just so

1:37:15

weird, like a hummingbird's lips,

1:37:17

yeah, not

1:37:20

a woodpecker. And uh

1:37:22

so we find I get down, we get down to this

1:37:24

little spot where there's this frozen

1:37:27

waterfall, and yeah,

1:37:29

I was just like I feel totally

1:37:31

out of my ability

1:37:34

to do this. And then you guys

1:37:36

were all, you know, super super nice and

1:37:38

very supportive and and we're

1:37:40

like, if you know, if you don't want to do it, you don't have

1:37:42

to do it. And I made the call to

1:37:45

to leave, and it was a really hard

1:37:48

decision. I felt very guilty,

1:37:50

really extremely But

1:37:52

then you shared with this that you had had but

1:37:55

then you'd had this feeling

1:37:57

of that something bad is gonna happen. I

1:38:00

didn't want from that.

1:38:03

I know

1:38:06

the last thing you left us with was I'm

1:38:09

feeling something bad's gonna happen. Well, I remember

1:38:11

looking at you guys just bee like be really really

1:38:14

fucking safe, and because something just felt

1:38:16

fucking weird about the whole thing. Man, I

1:38:18

mean, do you think it was totally my head? But you know, like

1:38:21

once you get in your own head about stuff, it's hard to

1:38:23

get out of it. But like, yeah, I noticed, like I could

1:38:26

see it was funny because just having

1:38:28

been with you in a lot of yeah,

1:38:31

well, I mean there's a lot of situations, including

1:38:33

a bunch of situations of steep stuff, wet

1:38:35

snow and just skipping

1:38:37

along problem you go lucky.

1:38:40

Um. I it

1:38:43

was like I watched you sort

1:38:45

of have um like

1:38:49

I was like you would you You're totally

1:38:51

fine, Like I've just seen you do this so many times,

1:38:54

but you just had like a thing entered your head. Something

1:38:56

happened. Yeah, it was really weird and like not

1:38:58

to not to say you shouldn't pay attention that you have

1:39:00

to pay attention to it, but to your point, like the

1:39:03

day, the

1:39:05

last day that we had camped before

1:39:08

we rolled out because that big storm was coming

1:39:10

in, we had gotten up on that one glass

1:39:12

and knob that was like when we were out

1:39:14

on the end of it man, and if you had

1:39:17

fallen off, you would have been toast

1:39:19

and we're skipping around him there filming

1:39:22

ship and like you were like you were disappointed

1:39:24

that

1:39:26

that in that

1:39:28

area, we were like mindful

1:39:31

of time, didn't want to go down in the dark.

1:39:34

I couldn't really see any reason to keep going. It

1:39:36

was like very dicey to keep going for like no

1:39:38

reason. It was like it wasn't like we were stalking something.

1:39:40

It was just like trying to find the source

1:39:43

of a set of mountain goat tracks. And

1:39:45

you were like wanting to keep going. And

1:39:47

in my mind that would have been like kind of like

1:39:50

borderline stupid, yeah, because

1:39:53

we weren't like after something. It was

1:39:55

just to the point where like I would

1:39:57

go if there was a thing there, if there was like a

1:39:59

shot operate, like if we're like Okay, there's ability,

1:40:01

let's try to get a shot. Then I'm like, okay, let's just go.

1:40:03

But I would never be like just to get another

1:40:07

twenty yards of visibility over the top

1:40:09

of the ridge. It just wasn't worth it to me. Yeah,

1:40:13

that didn't freak me out at all. But then you entered

1:40:15

a little mind space. There was just something about I

1:40:17

just kept looking down at

1:40:20

that that avalanche

1:40:22

shoot and just like I could just like see

1:40:26

my body all crumpled up like that fucking

1:40:28

goat. You shot my brains, fucking goneng

1:40:34

by my wristwash and I just like, yeah, man,

1:40:36

I just got like so rattled,

1:40:38

and yeah, I don't. We sat there for a long

1:40:41

time, and you got like we gotta like the

1:40:43

goatskin way around all day. It

1:40:45

was a hard decision, man, it was really I

1:40:47

came down bombed, and I came down and talked

1:40:49

to these guys. They saw me come down the trail and they were

1:40:51

all worried all day. Chester ran up and

1:40:53

thought everybody died. Yeah.

1:40:57

The look on Chris's face, big

1:40:59

wide open eye is like, I

1:41:01

mean, in some ways it kind of has

1:41:03

a symmetry to Steve's miss shot,

1:41:05

and that there's this sense of

1:41:08

of like I let the the greater

1:41:10

hole down. Yeah, definitely, uh

1:41:14

yeah, I mean yeah, Chris, you were

1:41:16

obviously like very frazzled by not

1:41:20

the decision, but the fact that you made the decision

1:41:23

of that make sense. And it's not like I'm not afraid of

1:41:25

like not like I'm not trying to be macho and me like,

1:41:27

oh, I can just do it. And what it was just like I

1:41:29

don't care about that. The thing I care. I just don't

1:41:31

want to not one do

1:41:33

the thing that I'm here to do, which is

1:41:35

to film the show, and

1:41:38

also not have this experience that

1:41:40

I love having with all you guys. So

1:41:43

like it was, Yeah, it was just a it's

1:41:45

weird, man, It's I'm gonna

1:41:47

be thinking about it for for a long time, much like your goat thing

1:41:50

when you wake up too in the morning. Let's

1:41:53

talk about

1:41:58

talking. Why don't you tell me

1:42:00

about the hair thing? Go ahead,

1:42:02

Chester, then we're gonna we're gonna wait and then we're

1:42:04

gonna we're gonna wrap her up

1:42:06

because then we're gonna part two. Man, I'm

1:42:09

gonna call that episode the return. This

1:42:12

episode be the miss the reason

1:42:14

why I think these guys all like passed away

1:42:16

up there is because you didn't hear what I said. You

1:42:18

were walking down the trail Chris towards me and

1:42:20

I said, is everything okay?

1:42:22

And you kind of had this You shook

1:42:24

your head no and you had your head down. And

1:42:27

at that moment, I

1:42:31

trying to give you guys a thumbs up because that entered

1:42:33

my head that like, oh, they're probably thinking something bad happens.

1:42:35

So I try to be like, no, it's all good, gone to Heaven

1:42:39

up they're up. Ah,

1:42:42

yeah, man, Yeah it was weird. It

1:42:45

was a weird one long time left.

1:42:47

Yeah, I just am So. You

1:42:50

know what celebrities do a thing that they got to apologize

1:42:53

on Instagram, They make the apology

1:42:56

video. I'm doing a lot more listening

1:42:58

than talking these days. That's

1:43:00

like one of the things. And you also

1:43:02

have to um be like I'm very humbled.

1:43:04

I'm humbold. Yeah.

1:43:07

If I didn't do anything bad, I

1:43:09

didn't do like a celebrity mistake. I'm

1:43:12

just humbled, humbling train the

1:43:14

whole deal is humbling about the miss dude,

1:43:16

I know, but it's it's all part of it. Yeah,

1:43:20

yeah, I say, if you're if you're not learning

1:43:23

you ain't earning. Oh yeah,

1:43:26

buddy poetry,

1:43:30

how's that go again? If you're if you're not

1:43:32

learning, you ain't earning. That's what I'm

1:43:34

gonna call this episode. That's

1:43:36

a good one. And then the next episode

1:43:38

will be the second miss or

1:43:44

it'll be the fall of

1:43:46

the Goat, the

1:43:49

lost the lost body

1:43:54

be like an Evert an Everst character. All

1:43:56

right, man, we'll be back with a

1:43:59

dead goat. With

1:44:02

Noble Steve so struck with grief

1:44:04

and saddled with self loathing. We

1:44:07

knew he'd have to try again or

1:44:09

else he'd risk imploding. So

1:44:11

we mobilize the cavalry, the

1:44:14

whole meat eater crew, and

1:44:16

sent Noble Steve back on the hunt.

1:44:19

Here's the story of Attempt number

1:44:21

two. Okay,

1:44:29

we're back for part two. The

1:44:31

only difference now is that it'll you'll you'll notice a slight

1:44:33

sound difference because we're not in our studio. And also

1:44:36

you'll this part to the Mountain got deal and

1:44:38

uh, Chris Ridge Pounder

1:44:40

Gil is not with us. Oh

1:44:42

than a remind refresh everyone's memory.

1:44:45

Who's here. I'm feeling a lot better.

1:44:49

I feel a lot better. Rick.

1:44:54

Yeah, I'm I'm happy

1:44:57

that you feel better, because when you feel

1:44:59

better, that means we don't have to

1:45:01

keep going out there because I know, yeah,

1:45:04

people were worried. Chester still

1:45:06

here, Chester still here, Seth.

1:45:09

Even though to you the listener, this

1:45:12

this part one just rolled into part two. But

1:45:14

what you don't realize that, uh,

1:45:17

it's a long time later. Summer,

1:45:19

summer came back, Summer

1:45:21

came back. Winner just showed up, Seth.

1:45:24

Girlfriend shot a testicle. This dear

1:45:26

yep, real nice cactus buck fatty

1:45:30

right, fatty dirt got dere

1:45:33

Kurt hasn't got shipped, Andrey got here too.

1:45:39

Prospects though, um

1:45:43

uh, we'll get back to the mountain, go and conclude

1:45:45

our saga. But but talk about the explain

1:45:48

the cactus buck deal. I think people think

1:45:51

so this is a crazy story. Um

1:45:54

my girlfriend Kelsey, she was

1:45:56

it. Last last week, No, a week

1:45:59

and a half ago. We spent a week out in

1:46:01

eastern Montana deer hunting, first week

1:46:03

of the season. And um,

1:46:07

the one night we went

1:46:10

out with Kelsey to try and find

1:46:12

her a buck, and we were six

1:46:14

miles from

1:46:16

our camp and

1:46:20

we found this really cool cactus

1:46:23

buck, still in velvet. Its right side was

1:46:25

somewhat normal, left side. It

1:46:27

was just like a just

1:46:30

like six points sticking

1:46:32

out of the base of its antler, where

1:46:34

like an aniler should be. Yeah,

1:46:36

this is like a hormonal imbalance,

1:46:39

right and

1:46:41

um. For whatever reason, we couldn't get

1:46:43

on that buck that buck that evening. We'd

1:46:45

like crest the hill and he'd be a thousand yards away,

1:46:47

and then go over hill. We get to that hill, he'd

1:46:51

be a thousand yards away. He's out trying to

1:46:53

find his testicles. Maybe I

1:46:55

don't know, he's not gonna find him.

1:46:58

Oh, I you know what

1:47:00

you know, I stopped the other day, take my ljs off? What

1:47:03

you know how I took the other day? I got hot and stopped and took

1:47:05

my long John's off. Left. Those sons of bitches

1:47:07

layd there. Who walks

1:47:09

away from their long John's. Guess

1:47:12

he's walking away from a track and bowl to

1:47:17

stand up and walk away from your long john

1:47:20

more priorities. So someone's gonna be like, oh,

1:47:22

it's weird fair long johns. Maybe the

1:47:24

long Johns. I started looking for the corpse that

1:47:27

would be mum

1:47:31

anyway. Um, So

1:47:33

we didn't get on that buck that even the next morning, we decided

1:47:36

to go on a quick bird hunt in the morning

1:47:39

rather than deer hunt, because there was birds everywhere. And

1:47:42

we're back at our camp, and we left

1:47:44

camp and walked over this one ridge

1:47:47

and I glassed up on the hill and sure

1:47:49

enough there's that same book six

1:47:52

air miles from where we had seen him the night before.

1:47:55

Who knows how how far,

1:47:57

like with you know, he could

1:48:00

to walk twelve miles that night, hard to say,

1:48:03

And it was, so it's distinct, and it's without

1:48:05

a doubt because it's such a weird like how many like

1:48:08

bucks in velvet with a weird growth?

1:48:11

Yeah, which the weird thing was that area.

1:48:13

We had seen seven different bucks in velvet

1:48:16

that there's a thing on code. There's if

1:48:18

you've heard of on Kodiak. There's like an

1:48:21

area that's famous for these

1:48:25

these hormonally imbalanced

1:48:27

cactus bucks that like have

1:48:30

weird formation in the velvet dries

1:48:32

on the rack. When

1:48:34

you say cactus buck, I mean I got that. They

1:48:38

get these thorny looking antlers, these

1:48:41

like clubby Goofy's

1:48:45

not the whole time I've been alive,

1:48:47

I didn't start hearing It's like I

1:48:49

never heard about this. Now every other

1:48:51

day I hear about it from somebody, And just

1:48:54

just by thumbing through Instagram, I have seen several

1:48:57

deer that have been taken this year. They were still in velvet,

1:48:59

different dates to Montana,

1:49:01

Utah. Deer are getting

1:49:03

less manly. Yeah, crisis

1:49:06

of masculinity and the deer population. And

1:49:09

this deer, this man

1:49:12

some academic papers. All the bucks that

1:49:14

we had seen that week, we're hanging out

1:49:16

with other bucks. Up

1:49:18

until this point, that was the only buck

1:49:21

that we had seen. It was hanging out with those like

1:49:24

he just thought he was just one of one of the ladies,

1:49:26

you know. And then his berries were I

1:49:28

was saying that he had lost him, but they were

1:49:30

dwarf. They looked normal there.

1:49:33

He had a intact sack, and

1:49:36

when I felt that, it just felt

1:49:38

like there was nothing there. There's nothing

1:49:40

in there, not the sender or something like

1:49:42

it. Did you had, you know

1:49:45

what, maybe that's what happened. It didn't even feel like there

1:49:47

were any little raisins in there, you know, like

1:49:49

he had the coin theres but there was no change in drop.

1:49:54

So you could just go on and on with these metaporters.

1:49:57

It's endlessly amusing. It's

1:50:00

interesting, man um

1:50:02

Anybody if you want to read up on this just go type in

1:50:04

like cactus buck and there's all. There's way

1:50:07

better explanations than we're providing. But it

1:50:09

has to do with like it not

1:50:12

having it's uh,

1:50:15

the proper dose of its masculine

1:50:18

hormones, and for somehow it like

1:50:20

leads to weird antler

1:50:22

growth and then the

1:50:24

velvet tends to dry yep on

1:50:27

them, you could see a The

1:50:30

funny thing is at six miles

1:50:32

that it traveled, you could see like a

1:50:34

really ruddy buck, you know, cruising

1:50:38

that distance. But why

1:50:40

why you know, hermaphrodite dear

1:50:43

or whatever you want to call it traveling?

1:50:45

That doesn't make any sense. I don't know. I picked

1:50:48

up and moved that far that night he

1:50:50

was looking was poor poor choice on

1:50:52

his part because and again pushed

1:50:55

around like others.

1:50:57

Yeah, maybe he gets his ass kicked all the time. Maybe

1:51:00

he just doesn't have the same amount of one of the

1:51:02

biggest body deer though I've ever seen my life. Yeah,

1:51:04

that's odd thing too, just huge.

1:51:07

Did you guys taste it yet? Um?

1:51:09

I don't know. We we we didn't do a

1:51:11

good job of keeping track of well,

1:51:14

once you got home, everything got all mixed up. Yeah.

1:51:18

Um, so we went

1:51:20

back like ended

1:51:23

the mountain go hunting in despair. I

1:51:25

had a midlife crisis. And

1:51:28

it was winter. It was cold, cold.

1:51:31

I went through a midlife crisis. It's over now. I

1:51:33

didn't buy a car or anything, but

1:51:36

I had a midlife crisis. It kept

1:51:38

you awake at night, kept me awake at night.

1:51:40

Not only that, my wife noticed

1:51:43

the difference in me. She

1:51:45

knew that the missing hurt

1:51:47

me hard. I heard she was making fun of you for

1:51:49

it made fun of me. I felt

1:51:52

embarrassed whenever I was around Kurt when

1:51:55

Jimmy, really, you go blow Kurt?

1:51:58

If I only could know, Uh,

1:52:01

my wife is friendly with Kurt's wife. So I'll eventually

1:52:03

find out what Kurt

1:52:06

said about truly felt What

1:52:09

about your your boy? That

1:52:11

company? Oh, Jimmy was

1:52:13

not so you disappointed

1:52:16

in your dad? My boy was not happy, just

1:52:18