0:00

Hi and welcome to the Midlife Feast , the

0:03

podcast for women who are hungry for more in

0:05

this season of life . I'm your host

0:07

, Dr Jenn Salib-Huber . I'm

0:09

an intuitive eating dietitian and naturopathic

0:11

doctor and I help women manage menopause

0:14

without dieting and food rules . Come

0:16

to my table , listen and learn from me

0:18

trusted guest experts in women's

0:20

health and interviews with women just like

0:23

you . Each

0:25

episode brings to the table juicy conversations designed to

0:27

help you feast on midlife . And

0:29

if you're looking for more information about menopause

0:31

, nutrition and intuitive eating , check

0:34

out the Midlife Feast Community , my monthly membership

0:36

that combines my no-nonsense approach

0:38

that you all love to nutrition with

0:40

community , so that you can learn from me and

0:42

others who can relate to the cheers and

0:44

challenges of midlife . Hi

0:49

everyone , welcome to this week's episode of

0:51

the Midlife Feast . When we

0:53

talk diet culture , anti-diet

0:56

, intuitive eating often

0:59

we think nutrition . We

1:01

talk to and talk about

1:04

intuitive eating with other

1:06

health professionals , dieticians , nutritionists

1:08

but there's also a behavior

1:10

component . There's also the

1:13

other side of learning

1:15

not to diet , which is maybe

1:17

a little bit more focused on our psychological

1:20

or emotional well-being , and that's why

1:22

I wanted to invite Dr Alexis Connison

1:24

on the podcast today . She's

1:26

a US-based psychologist who

1:28

has also written a book Diet-Free Revolution

1:31

and you know I really just like her approach

1:33

that uses a lot of storytelling , which

1:35

I'm a big , big fan of , but

1:37

also that she is a

1:40

you know health professional who has walked

1:42

the walk , so to speak . We talk a little

1:44

bit about this , but I definitely recommend

1:46

reading her book if you'd like , if you connect

1:48

to stories I think her book is a really great

1:50

resource for that . But also just realizing

1:53

that you know we're

2:01

not alone in this , whether you're a lifelong dieter or whether you're

2:03

somebody who was introduced to dieting in midlife because you were starting to experience

2:05

some of those midlife body changes that we all go through

2:07

. If there's one thing that I want you to

2:10

know and I think that Dr Coniston would agree , it's

2:12

that you're not alone , you're not broken

2:14

and it's not your fault . So I

2:16

hope you enjoy this conversation as much as I did

2:19

. Welcome

2:22

, dr Coniston , to the midlife feast . Thank

2:24

you so much for having me . So

2:27

we're going to talk about my favorite thing in

2:29

the world , which is anti-diet , non-diet

2:31

, all that kind of stuff . Um , but

2:33

as you know somebody who also has

2:35

a personal kind of journey to

2:37

this anti-diet space I always love hearing about

2:40

other kind of professionals journeys

2:42

to the non-ing

2:44

world , so I'd love to hear yours , if

2:46

you're willing to share .

2:47

Yeah , of course . So

2:50

you know , my story is that , like

2:52

so many of us , I was raised in diet culture

2:55

. I was raised in a home with

2:57

a lot of chronic dieting and binge eating

2:59

and I just kind of thought that was the

3:02

norm . So I grew up really not

3:04

questioning any of that . I very

3:06

much thought that , like , what

3:08

I had to do to be desirable

3:10

and valuable and loved was

3:13

to try to kind of conform

3:15

to this ideal and try to lose weight

3:17

and have my body be smaller , and that that would be kind

3:19

of a path to happiness . So I

3:22

spent many , many years of my life I mean , I

3:24

went on my first diet when I was eight years old

3:26

, as I talk about in my book

3:28

, which was really , I think , not

3:30

from a place of wanting

3:33

to change my body as much as wanting

3:35

to be grown up and thinking that's

3:37

what my mom did , that's

3:40

what I could do to kind of be

3:43

aligned with her in some ways

3:45

. And I spent many decades

3:47

going kind of on and off the

3:49

diet , overeating

3:52

rollercoaster . So

3:54

it wasn't until

3:56

I entered

3:58

the field of psychology really with

4:00

the idea of wanting to help other

4:02

people lose weight , because I was really

4:05

, you know , interested in

4:07

food and body and that was the only framework

4:09

I knew to try to resolve . You

4:12

know what I was struggling with so much myself

4:14

, and I went into

4:16

psychology with the intention of

4:18

studying weight management . I worked

4:21

in quote unquote obesity research for

4:23

a number of years . I worked in a surgery

4:26

clinic and it wasn't

4:28

until , you know , after all of my training

4:30

and I started my private practice

4:32

. Then I started to get exposed to messages

4:35

around weight inclusivity and that was really

4:37

like the first time that I ever

4:39

questioned any of those norms that

4:41

I had really been inundated with .

4:44

Yeah , I think that's such a relatable story . You

4:46

know , the statistics on health professionals

4:49

going into the field of health

4:51

, nutrition , weight loss , you

4:53

know tells a story right that so

4:55

many of us , you know , went into it

4:57

with a good dose of personal

4:59

investment in wanting

5:01

to fix ourselves as well , as , you know , fix

5:03

everyone else , because it's what we thought was

5:06

the right thing to do .

5:08

Yeah , very much so .

5:10

Yeah , so do you remember kind

5:12

of what , maybe what some of the earliest

5:14

I call them the little like

5:16

aha moments , right , kind of like , oh

5:18

, wait a minute , this isn't , this isn't lining

5:21

up . Do you remember what any of yours were ?

5:24

This isn't lining up . Do you remember what any of

5:26

yours were ? Yeah

5:30

, I mean . So the first time that I was ever exposed to messages around anti-diet

5:32

and weight inclusivity was when thankfully not long after I

5:34

first started my practice and

5:36

I attended a kind of retreat

5:38

workshop on mindful eating

5:41

and , unfortunately , the workshop itself

5:43

was taught from a very you know

5:45

, weight loss centered perspective

5:48

. They were handing out I remember a little like calorie

5:50

counting books and things

5:53

like that , but there was a group

5:55

of participants at the workshop

5:57

who were health at every size practitioners

5:59

and you know it was almost like

6:01

a coup started at the workshop

6:04

and they started to question

6:06

things and there was a lot of discontent

6:08

and they were pushing back and I

6:10

had never heard that conversation before

6:13

because , you know , this was like in 2010

6:17

, 2011 . These conversations

6:19

weren't nearly as much in the mainstream dialogue

6:21

and for so much of my

6:23

life , I was just inundated

6:26

with diet culture and again , growing up

6:28

in the 1980s , 1990s

6:31

, social media wasn't a thing . The internet wasn't

6:33

even really a thing , and

6:35

it was the messages

6:37

that we got from

6:40

mainstream media , which was television

6:43

, movies , and

6:45

so this was all totally

6:47

new to me , and I remember being at the

6:49

workshop and talking with one of these

6:51

people who was a health and exercise

6:53

practitioner , and I was talking

6:55

about dieting and why that was

6:57

important to me or why I was adhering

6:59

to the weight loss framework , and the

7:02

person just said very simply , like , but diets

7:04

don't work . And

7:11

I was like , what are you talking about ? And they're like well , are they working for you ? And I thought

7:13

, no , but that's just because , like , there's something wrong with me

7:15

that I'm not able to stick to it , I'm

7:17

not able to make it work . But

7:20

then they started to talk about the research behind

7:22

the health at every size movement

7:24

and I

7:27

at the time was still working in quote

7:29

unquote obesity research and

7:31

you know actually

7:33

, so those ideas stuck with me . So I don't know if it

7:35

was like a huge aha moment all at once

7:38

, as much as like something that got

7:40

planted in my mind and rattled around

7:42

for a while until I started to

7:44

, you know , kind of grow

7:46

more and more and

7:49

what I was actually seeing in

7:51

the obesity research field was very

7:53

much in alignment with

7:55

what was being presented

7:58

in the health at every size field in terms of diets

8:00

don't work . The research really was

8:02

not convincing that people were able to lose

8:04

significant amounts of weight and keep it off long

8:07

term . So there was , like

8:09

you know , overlap there and

8:11

also a big disconnection between what

8:14

I was kind of learning in

8:16

the health at every size movement and what I was

8:18

learning in academia and research

8:20

and what was being presented to the mainstream

8:22

public , because , like those things did not align

8:24

at all .

8:26

Yeah , very true , it's so interesting

8:28

. Someone had introduced

8:30

me to this idea of health at every size as well

8:32

. I think it was like late 2013 , early

8:34

2014 . And I

8:37

remember thinking , wait , what does that even mean

8:39

? Like , how can those words all fit together

8:41

? Because it was just so , it

8:43

was like a different language and

8:50

you know , when I , when I started digging into it , it kind of felt like , you know

8:52

, this foundation was crumbling . You know , I had all of this education , I had all this

8:54

experience . I had this career that was built

8:57

on the idea that , like you know

8:59

, food and eating and weight and health

9:01

were all things that were 100% willfully

9:03

in our control and

9:11

that it , like you said , it was like our fault somehow if it just wasn't working right . So

9:13

, yeah , that's so interesting . My other aha moment was when , in 2016

9:15

, when the biggest loser study , that famous study , came

9:18

out . This was like that was kind

9:20

of like my moment where I closed

9:22

my practice to weight loss . You

9:24

know , I spent two years , you know , starting

9:26

the intuitive eating program and learning

9:28

, and when that study came out , I was like this

9:31

is it like ? What more proof do I need that

9:33

diets don't work ? And yeah , so

9:35

I always like hearing other health professionals kind

9:37

of journey to this , so thank you for sharing that . Yeah

9:41

, you know .

9:42

I'll go ahead . I just want to emphasize

9:44

if there's people watch you know , listening

9:46

who you know kind

9:49

of are like when is my aha moment

9:51

? Or like when is this big transformation

9:53

going to happen ? You know , mine was very

9:55

, you know it was kind of slowly over time

9:57

, so it's not always this huge radical shift

9:59

as much as starting to get the toe in and trying

10:02

to explore a little bit .

10:04

Absolutely . Thank you for saying that , and you know just

10:06

to to to provide more information

10:08

. Like this was over a couple of years , right

10:10

, this was a couple of years of dipping my toe in

10:12

and finally it was like I'm just all in now , like

10:14

I'm going for the swim , I'm not like

10:16

waiting in the kiddie pool anymore . So

10:19

your book is called Diet-Free Revolution , which I

10:21

love , and you know we've

10:29

kind of talked about how you got there personally and professionally . One of the things that I'd

10:31

love to hear more about is what you talk about , this radical self-acceptance , and I always think you

10:33

know putting radical and self-acceptance shouldn't

10:35

be something that we have to do . But what

10:37

does that mean in the context of being diet-free

10:40

?

10:41

So radical self-acceptance means

10:43

the idea , you know , radical

10:46

in the sense of complete , like complete self-acceptance

10:49

. And one thing I like to emphasize

10:51

I think there's a lot of misunderstanding around what

10:53

acceptance really means . A lot of people

10:55

think that , well , if I accept something , that

10:57

means I'm giving up . Accepting

11:00

it means I have to like it , it means I have to be okay

11:02

with it , it

11:06

means I have to be okay with it . And when I talk about acceptance , which is

11:08

from the tradition of mindfulness meditation , we're really talking about

11:11

being , you know , kind of accepting the reality

11:13

of what things are in the current moment

11:16

, which is it just , is what it

11:18

is Like . We don't , we don't have to like it

11:20

, we don't have to be okay with it , we don't have to

11:22

want it , but we , you

11:24

know , can work to accept that right

11:27

now , in this moment , this is the way

11:29

that things are . And

11:31

radical self-acceptance is really about applying

11:33

that to ourselves , that right now , this

11:36

is who I am , this is the weight

11:38

that I'm at , this is what my body is

11:40

like and I don't have to like

11:42

it . But can I bring a sense

11:44

of compassion towards myself

11:47

? And , you know , often I talk about self-love

11:50

and , again , you know , I think there's a lot of . This

11:52

is another term that I think is very much misunderstood

11:55

in the idea that loving yourself , loving

11:57

your body , means loving what your body looks

11:59

like . And what I'm talking about

12:01

is a much deeper kind of love , a love that

12:03

you would have towards a child

12:05

, a beloved friend , a family

12:07

member , a love that is

12:09

unconditional and not based on what

12:12

you look like or what someone looks like

12:14

, but a deep

12:16

love that can't be broken , even when you

12:18

don't like what that person is doing

12:21

or what they look like in that moment

12:23

. And can we apply that towards ourselves ?

12:26

Such a hard thing to do , though , when you've spent

12:28

your whole life hating it right . Can

12:31

I share this funny story that someone shared with me

12:33

this week about acceptance ? It

12:36

was how she was able to kind of understand it . She

12:39

works in , I guess , a large-ish office

12:41

and has a coworker that doesn't

12:43

particularly like or care for or get along

12:45

with , but they're both , as

12:47

she put it , you know , close enough to retirement

12:50

that neither one of us is going to quit or move our job . You

12:52

know , leave our jobs . And she

12:54

, in doing this body , this body acceptance

12:56

work , she said you know what ? I realized that I've been putting

12:58

so much energy into not

13:01

liking this coworker , avoiding this coworker

13:03

, trying not to share space with this coworker

13:05

, but if I just accept that we're both

13:07

here for another couple of years , it is what it is

13:09

. All

13:16

of a sudden , it just like deflated , like the anger , the irritation , and that's the same thing that happens

13:18

right With this body work . It's just , it is what it is Like

13:20

, and the energy and the time that we put into trying

13:22

to change it , not like it , make it not

13:24

be what it is . The time that we put into trying

13:26

to change it , not like it , make it not be what it is

13:28

actually , makes

13:30

it more , you know . It kind of just puts it under the spotlight . So I love that little

13:32

story that was shared .

13:33

Yeah , that's a great example and I think that's very

13:35

, you know , very much in line with what

13:37

acceptance is like . It is what it is

13:39

and it doesn't mean we

13:42

want to , you know , we have to feel any

13:45

certain way about it . But I

13:47

think that acceptance does kind of neutralize

13:49

things a little bit and bring us

13:51

into the present moment , rather than

13:53

also make this now .

13:54

Yeah , so

13:58

you , I love the 10 steps . And then kind of how

14:00

you outline that because everybody likes a good

14:02

10 step program , right , we

14:04

all like a list . Line that , because everybody likes a good 10 step program

14:06

, right , we all like a list . Which of those 10 do you think is the hardest

14:09

for people to kind

14:11

of just apply ? Or like what

14:14

are your thoughts on what the hardest piece

14:16

of either anti-diet or

14:18

body acceptance ?

14:24

like , what's the hardest

14:26

part ? That people come back to you and say , oh , I just can't get

14:28

this . It's hard to say because I do think

14:30

that different things are different for each person , so what some people find the

14:33

hardest may not be the hardest for other people

14:35

, but

14:38

I think that the body image piece is really tough . We all

14:40

live in a culture that tells us our body

14:42

is supposed to be a certain way and

14:44

when our body isn't mine , Both

14:47

in terms of ideals around

14:49

you know , thinness , and also ideals

14:51

around youth and aging in

14:53

our culture I think that

14:55

it can be really hard to

14:58

, you know , come to that place of radical self-acceptance

15:00

and it ties in . So , you know

15:03

, acceptance is like one of the last steps

15:05

in the program and

15:08

, you know , one of the first

15:10

steps is leaving behind culture . And

15:12

I think those things actually really tie

15:14

into each other . Because when

15:17

we have a difficult time accepting

15:19

our body and it's hard to let go of

15:21

that idea that if we just

15:23

lost weight , everything would be better

15:25

, you know , and the idea that we can

15:27

lose weight , right , that's possible and

15:29

um realistic and

15:32

healthy goal , and we

15:34

can't let go of that , we stay stuck in diet culture

15:36

. And then , when we're stuck in diet culture

15:38

, it's very hard to trust her to

15:41

really hear and listen to , like what

15:43

wants to eat when

15:45

we're hungry , when we feel satisfied , to

15:47

trust that when

15:50

we feel satisfied and our

15:52

body is telling us it's time to stop

15:54

eating , it can be hard to trust that that

15:56

food will be available again . So we tend

15:58

to hold on to well , I don't want to stop

16:00

eating because this is delicious , even though I'm really full

16:03

, I want to eat more because I'm really

16:05

enjoying this and who knows when I'll be able to

16:07

have this again . Right ? So it keeps us stuck

16:09

in scarcity mindset

16:11

or restrictive mentality and it's very

16:13

difficult to practice mindful eating From

16:16

that mindset . It can really take us off track

16:18

. So , you know , step

16:21

one I think is one of the most important ones , which

16:23

is , you know , freeing ourselves from diet culture

16:25

and understanding why diets don't

16:28

work and why also , our

16:30

health is not dependent on dieting

16:33

, and how we can work to

16:35

make health improvements , if that's a goal for

16:37

you , while also pursuing

16:39

mindful eating from an anti-diet perspective

16:42

. So you know , in

16:44

my book each step kind of builds on the

16:46

one before . So

16:49

I'd say , like it's hard , you know . Step

16:51

two becomes hard if you can't let

16:53

go of diet . You know , if you can't let go of diet

16:55

culture , the whole thing is really hard

16:57

and I think a lot of people struggle

16:59

with , you know , letting go of diet

17:01

culture , practicing more mindful eating

17:04

, coming to a place where their behaviors

17:06

feel a lot better

17:08

around food and

17:11

they still really don't feel good about their body

17:13

, and that can be a huge shift too .

17:17

Yeah , I think that that's a really good point

17:19

. What you said earlier too about making

17:21

health-oriented

17:23

or health-focused I

17:25

mean , obviously that comes up at any stage in life , but

17:27

they're often in midlife or kind of some

17:30

more pointed conversations around cholesterol

17:32

and blood sugar and those kinds of things how

17:35

. How do you kind of have those conversations

17:38

where somebody says I totally get what you're saying

17:40

, I love it all , but I

17:43

have to lose weight or I have to diet because

17:45

of dah , dah , dah , dah .

17:47

So I work with a lot

17:49

of clients who are in that mindset

17:51

and

17:54

I actually love working with folks who are there and you know

17:56

, one of the places they start is like around

17:58

the why . So you

18:00

want to . What are the things that you're hoping

18:02

to gain from losing weight , and

18:06

are there ways that we can start working towards those

18:08

things now , at your current size ? So you

18:10

know , for example , someone might talk about

18:12

wanting to , you know

18:15

, lose weight so that they're able to

18:17

, you

18:20

know , be more active and you

18:22

know , play with their children or their grandchildren be more

18:25

active , and you

18:27

know play with their children or their grandchildren . So

18:33

you know , are there ways to me that's about physical fitness , right , Not about weight . So are there ways

18:35

to start improving physical fitness ? Some people you know similarly might say

18:37

I want to lose weight because I have , you know , knee

18:39

pain . That really bothers me

18:42

, and is that about

18:44

weight ? Or , you know , have you

18:46

consulted with a physical therapist

18:48

? Have you , you know , looked

18:50

into ? Are there things that you can do to strengthen

18:53

, like , the muscles around your knee ? So , like , I

18:55

think that a lot of us get stuck

18:57

in this idea that our

18:59

life can't move forward unless we lose weight

19:02

, and a lot of those goals that people

19:04

are kind of waiting for until they lose weight are things that we can actually start working on now . And a lot of those goals

19:06

that people are kind of waiting for until they lose weight are things that we can

19:08

actually start working on now . And I always tell

19:10

people , regardless of whether or not you

19:12

lose weight , you know , why not

19:14

start working on that now ? You know you

19:16

don't have to have your life on pause

19:18

.

19:19

Yeah , and that's such a good point because the pause

19:22

in life really does hold people

19:24

back . You

19:26

know , whether it's health goals or just life goals , it's like , well , I'll do that

19:29

when I lose weight , I'll wear whatever

19:31

it is that I want to wear when I want to lose weight

19:33

. You know , access to size , inclusive clothing

19:35

aside , you know we can wear what

19:38

we want when we want , not dictated by what our body

19:40

size is right . So , yeah , those are some

19:42

really great points . I'm always one

19:45

of the things that I love about this work is just how often

19:47

people are pleasantly surprised by

19:50

. You know , it doesn't take 10 years

19:52

to undo everything that you can

19:54

really start to make progress . What are

19:56

, what are some of the little wins or

19:58

the things that surprise people when

20:01

they start working with you or doing this work

20:03

?

20:05

Yeah , I agree , I mean one of the reasons I do love

20:07

this work , especially with people who you

20:10

know . We work with people both who are new

20:12

to mindful eating

20:14

and also people who have been in kind

20:16

of the you know anti diet space for

20:18

a while . But I really love like introducing

20:20

these ideas to people because we get to be here

20:22

. So many people are like

20:25

, wow , you know , I've never

20:27

, I've never like , like , like what happened to me

20:29

the idea you know what are you talking about that

20:31

diets don't work . And it's like

20:33

this light bulb goes off and

20:36

you know some people come in and I just really

20:38

see um big

20:41

shifts that happen in relatively small

20:43

amounts of time . I think some people come in really

20:45

um exhausted

20:48

from doing you know

20:50

kind of being on this you know

20:52

hamster wheel of

20:54

doing things that don't work , and

20:57

they come in really ready to do something different

20:59

. But even if people don't

21:01

come in kind of primed and ready , I think that

21:04

you know that mindset shift

21:06

can be really powerful in

21:08

terms of . You

21:10

know , some of the wins that people experience is things like

21:12

, you know , feeling more at peace with

21:15

their body , feeling

21:17

more like space

21:20

to think about other things when

21:22

they're not thinking about food all the time

21:24

. You know , I think there's just like so

21:26

much more to life that comes out

21:28

when we can resolve this

21:30

issue , and you know it may not

21:32

look perfect , right , like it's not about

21:34

getting a body that you're , you know

21:37

, thrilled to wear a bikini

21:39

and post about it on social media

21:41

or whatever , like that's not necessarily that

21:43

goal , but it's about

21:45

, you know , having the space and

21:47

freedom to be able to live your life the way that you

21:49

want to , without this like you , you

21:52

know encumbering you yeah

21:54

, dieting is a life thief , no doubt about it

21:57

.

21:57

Yeah , it really does take up so

21:59

much , you know , time

22:02

and energy and heart space

22:04

and head space to just constantly be thinking

22:06

about food and whether your body

22:08

is good enough . Um , it's

22:11

, yeah , yeah , it's . It's no fun . So

22:14

I , like I said , I'm a big

22:16

fan of your work and I think that the way that

22:18

you describe , especially in your book , the

22:20

storytelling almost is these really

22:22

relatable experiences ? Do

22:25

you find that storytelling and hearing

22:28

other people's stories and having other people

22:30

talk about their stories , do

22:32

you think that that's an important part of

22:34

the journeys that people are on ? Because so much of our

22:36

dieting journeys are shame-filled

22:39

and by ourselves feeling like we're doing

22:41

something wrong .

22:43

Yeah , very much . So I believe that the

22:45

power of stories is huge and I think

22:48

that the power of community is really

22:50

huge , one of the things that I try . So the

22:52

stories from my book were really inspired by

22:54

a group that I went

22:57

for people struggling with eating

22:59

issues mindful eating group

23:01

. I still eat it . It's online . I

23:03

used to eat it in person

23:06

in my office and there was something so powerful

23:08

about a group of people coming together

23:10

and before every group started , it was

23:12

always , you know , very different kinds of

23:14

people from different backgrounds , different careers

23:17

, sometimes different ages , and

23:19

I'd always think , oh my gosh , how is this going to go

23:21

? Like , how are people going to , you know , are they

23:23

going to get each other ? Are they going to get each other ? And

23:26

I'd say , every single

23:28

time there was such a universality in

23:30

this struggle around food and not feeling

23:32

good , and people who

23:34

were so different in so many different ways really

23:37

found those bridges and were like

23:39

, oh my gosh , you know you do that too . I

23:41

thought I was the only person who did

23:43

that , or I thought I was the only person who struggled with

23:45

that and starting to talk openly

23:47

about these issues that I

23:49

do think have been like private and secretive

23:51

and filled with shame for so many years

23:53

, even just starting to

23:55

talk openly about it and talk

23:58

with other people , that

24:00

to realize that you're not alone and

24:02

that these things are actually like not

24:05

so uncommon , you know , these deep

24:07

, dark secrets that we thought are the worst

24:09

things we could never possibly tell anyone

24:11

. To hear someone else you know say that they

24:13

do that too , I think , is really powerful . So

24:15

I started to . When I was writing my

24:17

book , I was really thinking about you know how

24:20

do I convey the

24:22

power of that community

24:24

to people you know ? Through a book and

24:27

I thought about stories because at

24:29

its core , these issues around food

24:32

are not necessarily

24:34

relational . I see so many people

24:36

who come in and they say look , I know that it's

24:38

don't work . I know , you know

24:41

, I've spent decades going on and off diets

24:43

. I've spent decades with my weight going up

24:45

and down , like I know that what I'm doing

24:47

doesn't work and yet it's so hard to

24:49

let go of it . It's so hard to let go

24:51

of the idea . Not

24:54

the idea , it's just there's something that's so

24:56

deeply connected in our brains

24:58

. So I think that in

25:01

many ways , our issues

25:03

around food and our body and our

25:05

relationships with food and our body are

25:08

not rational . They're emotional

25:10

and relational , and

25:12

I think the way to convey that is through stories

25:15

and connecting with others , whether it's through

25:18

, you know , reading about them in a book or

25:20

like actually meeting

25:22

others in a group .

25:24

Oh , my goodness , I love that so much . It is , it

25:26

is relational , it is emotional . Like these

25:28

are . These are very real things

25:31

. It's not simply

25:33

about calories in and calories out , right

25:35

. So , yeah , I love storytelling too , and in

25:38

my community it's such an important part of everyone's

25:41

healing journey is seeing other

25:43

people who have gone through the same thing

25:45

, going through the same thing , but also coming out the other

25:47

side right , so that you see

25:49

that you're just like one person in this

25:51

big journey . You're not , you know , all on

25:53

your own all the time . So what

25:55

is one thing that you would say to somebody

25:58

who maybe was feeling

26:00

a little scared of leaving

26:02

diets behind ? Because that's often what

26:04

comes up is kind of like I love everything you're

26:06

saying , but I

26:08

don't think I'm ready to ditch dieting . What are some

26:10

ways that you persuade them to give it a try

26:13

?

26:14

So you know , the first thing I'll say is I don't persuade

26:16

anyone to do anything they don't want to do

26:19

, but I think

26:21

that when we can look back at our

26:23

past experiences with dieting and to understand

26:25

how dieting has and hasn't worked for

26:27

you , that's a really important

26:30

step . So one of the first exercises in my

26:32

book is actually a

26:34

process of writing a letter to dieting

26:36

, and it could be a breakup letter , it could be a take

26:38

a break letter . But this idea that

26:41

you know it's important for us to think

26:43

about and say , you

26:46

know , kind of acknowledge to

26:48

ourselves like that dieting

26:50

both serves us and doesn't . If

26:52

it didn't , if it was all bad , then

26:55

we would have given it up a long time ago

26:57

. We don't hold on to things that are only harmful

27:00

. If it was all good , then it

27:02

would have solved all of our problems already and we wouldn't be

27:05

here . The thing that keeps us really stuck

27:07

in diet culture is that kind of you know , in

27:10

behavioral terms , like that

27:12

intermittent reinforcement that

27:15

sometimes it works and then sometimes it

27:17

doesn't , and we kind of get a taste of

27:19

what we want and you know , it gives

27:21

us sometimes hopefulness

27:23

and like

27:25

. Like there are good feelings that come from

27:27

dieting as well and to acknowledge that it

27:29

is hard to give it , but

27:33

that it also isn't worth it . And it's not

27:35

. So much of what we hold on

27:37

to with dieting is the facade

27:40

, it's the promises of dieting

27:42

, the idea that it's going to give us something it

27:45

has never given us or has only

27:47

given us for short periods of time .

27:49

Yeah , yeah , that's great advice , thank

27:51

you . So this has been a great conversation

27:54

. I thank you so much . Where's

27:56

the best place for people to learn about you and your

27:59

work ?

28:00

So you can learn about me at my website

28:02

, drconisoncom . I'm

28:05

also active on Instagram at the

28:07

anti-diet plan . If you're interested

28:09

in the mindful eating

28:11

courses , groups

28:14

and coaching that all is available

28:16

on my website . And if you're in

28:18

the New York

28:20

, vermont , florida or Connecticut

28:22

areas and you're interested

28:25

in therapy , then you

28:27

can visit our website at singlehealthservicescom

28:30

. We do weight weight inclusive

28:33

therapy for

28:35

people with issues around food

28:37

, body image and relationships .

28:40

That's amazing . We'll have all those links in the show notes

28:42

as well . So parting question for all

28:44

of my guests what do you think is the missing ingredient

28:46

in midlife life

28:49

?

28:51

I think time , I'm going to have to say

28:53

time . Time for ourselves

28:56

time to feel like I

29:04

think there's so much pressure on us at different ages , but especially in

29:06

midlife , to feel like we're doing it all . Many of us are

29:08

caring for , for our children , we're caring

29:10

for our parents , we're trying to care

29:12

for ourselves . We're , you know

29:14

, having career . There's like so much

29:16

going on and I feel like it's really

29:18

easy to kind of lose a sense

29:21

of ourselves , and

29:23

I think if we had more time to , you

29:25

know , be alone and to or

29:28

connect with friends and other people in my life

29:30

, I think that's just something that gets

29:32

lost and it's

29:35

really hard .

29:37

I would 100% agree with that . That's definitely

29:39

a missing ingredient . Thank

29:42

you so much , Dr Conison . I know that

29:44

this will be a well-loved episode .

29:47

Thank you so much for having me .

29:50

Thanks for tuning in to this week's episode of

29:52

the midlife feast . For more non-diet

29:55

, health , hormone and general midlife support

29:57

, click the link in the show notes to learn

29:59

how you can work and learn from me . And

30:01

if you enjoyed this episode and found it helpful

30:04

, please consider leaving a review or

30:06

subscribing , because it helps other women just

30:08

like you find us and feel supported

30:10

in midlife .