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2:04

Welcome to the mismatch. I'm Chris Vernon

2:06

and joining me on this Monday night from the ringer.com

2:08

is Kevin O'Connor, aka Kevin Obama, Kevin O

2:10

concert, Kevin O climber, Kevin O blizzard,

2:13

Kevin O Candyland, Kevin O conflict.

2:15

Kevin.

2:20

Oh, we got a champion champion.

2:23

We have an NBA champion. We are recording

2:25

this after we have watched the

2:27

Denver Nuggets win the NBA

2:30

championship,

2:31

win the series four games to

2:33

one over the Miami heat. And

2:36

after 46 years

2:38

of being a franchise,

2:41

this their 47th year, they

2:43

finally get one. That is the most

2:46

time before a team got a

2:48

title. And so Denver now has

2:51

theirs. Let's start with

2:53

the game. This was a war.

2:57

I mean, Denver had to win it. There's no

2:59

way around that. They had to win

3:02

the championship against the Miami

3:05

heat. We knew that

3:08

if there was one thing we could count on Miami

3:11

for is that they are always going to put

3:13

up a fight. And I got

3:16

to be honest with you. First half

3:18

look very good, but walk

3:21

away from it going, geez,

3:23

man, the Denver Nuggets literally

3:26

just set the record for

3:28

the worst three point shooting

3:31

in a finals half ever

3:35

by a team that had attempted at least 10

3:37

three pointers. They ended the half

3:40

one for 15 for

3:42

six point seven percent.

3:45

And it's not as if those were bad

3:48

looks. And so a lot of

3:51

you know, there's going to be regression to the mean.

3:53

You're thinking, geez, they come

3:55

out in the second half

3:56

and they just knock down some of these.

3:59

We're going to have a different. game on our hands, but

4:02

the heater in it and. Four

4:04

to four. They go four for 13

4:07

in the second half from three. So still not

4:09

that much better now. Really not at

4:11

all. Five of five of 28, they finished 17.9%.

4:16

So Denver flips the game in

4:18

the second half, but Miami

4:21

simply will not go

4:24

away. They keep making big

4:26

plays. They keep making big shots. And

4:29

then there was a moment where

4:31

I was like,

4:32

Oh my God, as pitiful

4:34

as this game has been and

4:36

the Jimmy Butler stat line

4:40

is just atrocious and this is when

4:42

he's like, you know, two for 13 or

4:44

whatever he was, then he gets

4:47

on that heater. And it's like, how many times

4:50

have we seen this? How many times have we chronicled

4:53

their fourth quarter prowess, them

4:56

down eight while winning games,

4:58

them down 10 while winning games,

5:01

they they've been

5:03

truly the greatest team ever

5:05

at doing that in big

5:08

games. And I'm like, are they really about

5:10

to do this again? And then they

5:12

call a foul on Aaron Gordon's nutsack.

5:15

And it looks like, geez,

5:18

this may really happen.

5:21

And nuggets in true

5:23

champion form are able to

5:26

hold it off.

5:27

Uh, this went down. This is,

5:30

this is what you want. While it was a

5:33

mess of a game, it

5:35

went down to the last place. These teams

5:37

had to execute. These teams had to make plays,

5:41

uh, and get stops in order to

5:43

win. And it's a

5:45

one possession difference down

5:48

the stretch. Um, he'd

5:51

had a chance to take leads. He'd

5:53

had a chance to tie it even at

5:55

the end, some big free throws by

5:57

Caldwell Pope and Bruce Brown. Brown

6:00

offensive board Chris huge man.

6:03

He's so clutch the positioning. Yeah,

6:05

that that that that kind of was like

6:07

the cherry on top of such an intense

6:10

fourth quarter just with those extra plays

6:12

being made special.

6:13

That's why you win titles, you know, that's why

6:16

you win basketball games. That Bruce

6:18

Brown play. I'm glad you brought that up. Totally emblematic

6:20

at that moment. They're

6:22

down 89, 80. Yeah.

6:25

And he's the go ahead.

6:27

He gets that rebound and put back to make it 90,

6:29

89 in the game.

6:33

Now the rest, I believe after that, I

6:35

believe the, the, the rest were all

6:38

cause they ended on 94. So it was all free

6:40

throws. Yeah. That's the last field

6:42

goal of the game. Yep.

6:43

For that free throw by KCP

6:46

and then two by Bruce Brown to make it five.

6:49

But that was the last field goal, as you said, with

6:51

one 31

6:52

left in the game. Special man. So

6:54

winning play. It

6:57

was, it was, I mean, throughout, like

7:00

we've seen that from Denver's like being

7:02

gunned, he said during the broadcast, he's like,

7:04

I think Miami

7:05

is asking too much of their supporting casts.

7:09

And I think he was right. Cause

7:12

Jimmy Butler was what two of two of 10 and during

7:15

the fourth quarter. And even in the fourth quarter,

7:17

despite that little run he had, he still only ended five

7:19

of 18. But the Denver side of things, obviously,

7:21

Yokich, unbelievable 28 points,

7:25

16 rebounds, four assists, 12 of 16 total. But

7:29

like despite Jamal Murray

7:31

being only six to 15, you've got Michael Porter Jr. Stepping

7:34

up. He hits only one three pointer, but

7:36

he's crashing the boards. He's

7:39

scoring in the lane. Bruce Brown making

7:41

those types of plays. The KCP steel that he had on Butler.

7:46

How about the sprint? Remember

7:48

that sprint he had in transition to deflect

7:50

the ball and stop. But it's easy two point opportunity on the break.

7:54

Jeff Green only plays five minutes throughout the post-season.

7:57

He's been. great

8:00

Christian Brown

8:01

making big plays. Aaron Gordon, his defense

8:04

on Butler, that

8:05

entire Nuggets roster that, you

8:07

know, they play, you know, DeAndre Jordan for three

8:09

minutes tonight, but that, that seven

8:12

eight man rotation we've seen throughout the postseason.

8:15

All

8:15

those guys came through, man. So like, even though

8:18

Miami might've been asking too much

8:21

of their role players from a shot creation

8:23

perspective, Denver checked all

8:25

the boxes and the, and the ways that they need

8:27

to and what those guys are asked

8:29

to do. It definitely felt like a better

8:31

balance from the Dallas, from the Denver side of things

8:33

than the Miami side.

8:35

Well, and look, I, I'm

8:37

always timid to make too many grand

8:40

proclamations on the, on the game,

8:42

just because I know it did come down to

8:44

honestly, Jimmy Butler got stuck on that

8:46

drive. And that really, for all

8:48

intents and purposes, ended the game when

8:51

he threw that ball away to KCP.

8:55

But they had that chance right there. And

8:57

so I could easily see him pulling

8:59

up short and hitting a little floater. And

9:02

then we're analyzing everything

9:04

that Denver did wrong in this game.

9:06

I mean, these, this game came down to, like

9:09

we said, opposition. That being

9:11

said,

9:12

what is so impressive to me about Denver and

9:14

why they are such a incredibly

9:16

worthy champion is this is exactly

9:19

the kind of game that

9:20

Miami wants.

9:23

You are drug into this

9:25

absolute mess

9:27

of a game. It's 94 to 89. And throughout the course

9:30

of these playoffs,

9:33

if it called for them to win a game, 135

9:35

to 126, they can do that. You want to play

9:41

that way? Fine. That's we'd

9:43

love to. We're a fast break

9:45

team, amazing home team,

9:48

fast break team. And you

9:50

want to fly up and down. These numbers are going

9:52

to get super gaudy and

9:55

we'll run with you. That's fine. If

9:58

you want to play a slugfish. They

10:01

can win that way too. And

10:03

I think that that is why that's

10:06

the sign of the

10:08

championship team is the team that can

10:12

any kind of style you want to play,

10:15

they can beat you at that

10:17

style. Because I will say for

10:19

the heat, you know, obviously

10:22

we always focus a lot on box scores and, you

10:25

know, what guys did offensively.

10:28

94 is an unbelievable

10:30

number to give up to Denver at home.

10:33

Sure. Like they did everything

10:35

they could to muck this thing up and

10:38

to make it hard. But that's what

10:40

I'm saying. Like Denver,

10:43

you're, you're a different level when

10:45

you can fly up and down the court and

10:47

beat teams like that. But you can also

10:50

play these games in the mud and

10:53

win that way too. They're just awesome. They

10:55

are an awesome champion. Truly. Well,

10:58

I mean, that's what Yocach said on the podium,

11:00

you know, when they were handed the trophy

11:02

and all that, I forget the exact phrasing, but

11:05

you know, in a nutshell, he pretty much said,

11:07

you know, we won this game with our defense,

11:10

right? Like they did. And that's what I

11:12

feel like Denver proved throughout this whole postseason.

11:14

What was the question about them?

11:17

Can you win a championship with a

11:19

defense anchored by Nicola Yocach? We've

11:21

seen in past post seasons when he was not

11:24

the type of defender he's been for the past

11:26

year or so. Last season, he made

11:28

a big leap on defense after

11:31

winning his MVPs, right?

11:33

He goes back to back. I think his second

11:35

year was even better than his first year winning MVPs

11:38

on defense. And then this year, until

11:40

the last month and a half, when he started

11:42

coasting, he was very good again. But

11:45

we saw him in this postseason better

11:47

than ever on the defensive end of the floor.

11:49

We saw him do it against Minnesota

11:52

with two bigs. We saw him do it against

11:54

the Suns with shooters

11:57

and pull up guys. We saw him do

11:59

it against the Lakers.

11:59

with Anthony Davis and

12:02

the toughness that they have inside. And we saw him

12:04

do it against his heat team with different

12:06

types of guys that he had to defend.

12:08

Downhill driving attackers. And throughout

12:11

in every series,

12:12

he showed that he can defend at a high level. Maybe

12:15

things would have been different if they had a face like

12:17

the top of the top tier

12:20

warriors, right, a team like that. Maybe

12:22

things would be different, but they were for every team.

12:24

But for this Denver team, I think they have now entered

12:27

a class where they are

12:29

the team that you have to run through here in

12:32

the Western Conference, not just because they win the finals

12:34

here, but just because of the

12:36

player, Yokich has proved himself to be

12:38

throughout this run. And unstoppable

12:40

offensive force, as we already know, and

12:42

now a very good defender supported by

12:44

the appropriate supporting cast with

12:47

stoppers, like Aaron Gordon,

12:49

those hard-nosed tough wing defenders, KCP,

12:52

Bruce Brown, those types of guys.

12:55

It's a great collective team

12:57

defense with a awesome

13:00

positional center who is always

13:02

in the right position, who communicates at

13:04

a high level. And he's got quick hands

13:06

for those steals that he had, you know,

13:08

the kick balls sometimes

13:11

that he plays like a hockey goalie. I

13:13

mean, Yokich is a very good defender

13:15

and an elite rebounder. And for this

13:17

Denver team, I thought it was cool how,

13:19

like you

13:19

said, Chris,

13:20

you know, they can win any style. And tonight

13:22

they won with their defense and their grit

13:25

and their tenacity. And I

13:27

think that is emblematic of the growth Yokich

13:29

has experienced throughout his entire career as

13:31

a defensive player and becoming a great conditioned

13:34

player as well.

13:35

Yeah, you also have to take into consideration

13:37

when you talk about there, the team you got to go through. It's

13:39

not just winning the title,

13:42

it's the manner in which they

13:44

won the title. They are

13:46

the ninth team

13:48

ever to win a title and

13:51

lose only one game in the semis

13:53

and the finals. The last time

13:55

a team did this was the 17 warriors. So

13:59

it has not.

13:59

happened since then and

14:01

one home game they lost two to

14:03

the sons. No

14:07

no no I said in the in the in the semis

14:10

or the finals. Okay so the conference finals

14:13

okay right yeah so they swept

14:15

the they swept the Lakers and then

14:17

obviously they just beat the heat but look

14:20

I heard Bill ask Ryan

14:22

this question he said in the last 15

14:25

years

14:26

they're the only one outside

14:28

of that Warriors to lose

14:31

four or less

14:33

which is crazy to think about

14:35

like yeah honestly what they did they

14:38

mowed these teams

14:40

on their way to winning this

14:44

end up what 16 and four I guess

14:46

is the is the final total throughout

14:48

these playoffs man which is special

14:51

that is an incredible record in the boy

14:53

dude yeah right in like the games

14:55

I lost a little lost an overtime game

14:58

to Minnesota

14:59

right they lost two games to

15:01

the sons when they scored 120 plus

15:04

and I believe if I remember correctly one of those

15:06

was a game where Booker was just absurd

15:09

like 50 points or whatever maybe both of

15:12

them one of them I forget is that one of them and then the

15:14

other one he and Durant

15:16

yes had I believe it was 36 each

15:19

and correct hold it up 36 no kitchen 53

15:22

in the game three yes

15:25

he had 53 in that game is that

15:27

exactly in the loss yeah

15:29

so those are the games I lost and obviously

15:31

there was one to Miami and that great

15:33

game to win that they he'd had but ultimately

15:36

you look at this

15:37

Nuggets team yogurt is the best player in the world

15:40

Jamal Murray the perfect

15:42

second piece next day and I

15:44

mean the chemistry they have obviously we've talked

15:46

about throughout the postseason run but then you got you know

15:48

Murray's 26 Michael

15:50

Porter Jr. is 24 Christian

15:52

Browns 22 all those guys are under

15:54

contract long-term Aaron

15:56

Gordon's get two plus years left

15:58

KCP's get at least one year left

15:59

Jeff Green and Bruce Brown can be

16:02

free agents this offseason, but

16:04

I think Peyton Watson,

16:06

Zeke Najee, those two guys off

16:08

their bench Peyton Watson was quietly

16:10

very, very, very good in the opportunities

16:12

provided. Najee has shown like

16:15

Jeff Green-esque qualities with

16:17

versatile defense, spot-up shooting,

16:19

and then they have two second round picks, 37

16:22

and 40. They made the pick, the trade, during

16:25

the finals. This is a draft class

16:27

that's deep with quality

16:29

roleplay or talent, including

16:32

a lot of guys who I think are these high

16:34

field players where

16:36

like, like think about Andre Jackson

16:38

Jr. from UConn, people saw him in the tournament

16:40

on their run to the title. Andre Jackson,

16:42

a big cutter off ball, moving quick

16:45

decision maker. There's a lot of guys like that that

16:47

I bet you Denver's going to target with those two

16:49

picks in the second round. So they're equipped

16:52

with a supporting cast that's locked up with

16:55

some good young talent and obviously the best

16:57

player in the world with like the best co-star

16:59

he could ask for to continue competing. And

17:01

who has an answer for Jokic? Who has

17:04

an answer? He's the guy you get to think about

17:06

just like years ago with Steph and

17:09

Clay, it's like, how do you stop this perimeter shooting?

17:11

Now it's how do you stop this interior

17:14

beast who can also create from the perimeter

17:17

and do everything on the court and Jokic?

17:19

I read the absolute craziest

17:21

thing after this game ended. You know, we have talked

17:24

about him,

17:26

you know, that as soon as somebody wins the title, we're

17:29

going to start talking about all these guys through

17:31

a historical lens. And there

17:33

are so many times throughout this entire

17:35

postseason that we have come on

17:37

this podcast and I've talked about these different

17:39

stats. It's the first time that this has happened.

17:42

The first time this has happened since, and it's

17:44

always like a long time ago. And

17:46

that's for Jokic individually, but also

17:48

he

17:49

and Murray as a duo.

17:52

But this is crazy

17:55

to think about after

17:58

they won this tonight. those

18:01

stats all become official

18:03

for a postseason. He

18:05

is the first player in

18:07

the history of the NBA

18:11

to lead all players in

18:14

points, rebounds,

18:16

and assists in

18:18

a single postseason. He

18:21

was number one

18:23

in all three categories.

18:28

That is ridiculous.

18:30

That is ridiculous.

18:34

I know.

18:35

He was number one in every

18:37

category. I'm

18:40

a little surprised it hasn't happened before. Of

18:42

all the greats in league history

18:44

that have won finals. Oh, I'm not. Somebody's

18:46

going to lead in one of the other. I know.

18:49

I know. I know. Either rebounds or assists. I

18:51

know, but just from the sheer fact of playing

18:53

more games, I'm just surprised

18:56

that at least at

18:59

least once Chris, at least once,

19:01

you know, like that's the

19:03

surprising part to me, but that just shows how

19:05

different he is. Well, I mean,

19:07

we know everything

19:09

that triple double thing. He is all

19:11

when I was looking up some of the stats because

19:14

of course the stats now just go

19:16

on for ages and ages. You could read for

19:18

pages, but it was like he is now

19:21

all time in top areas. Oh, he's now

19:23

top 10 all time in triple doubles.

19:25

He's now a all time top 10

19:28

in postseason, triple doubles. And

19:30

then first since will Chamberlain, it's always

19:32

will Chamberlain. Yeah. Always this will Chamberlain.

19:35

And then

19:36

I read what might've been the

19:39

one thing I become

19:41

so callous to like all of these.

19:43

I'm like, Oh yeah, they did that.

19:45

He did that. He had the 32 17 and 12 and he like,

19:47

you know, all

19:50

the numbers are so freaky,

19:52

but this one I had never heard

19:54

in my life and it was chronicling

19:57

the different,

19:58

uh, the triple doubles. Right.

19:59

how many triple doubles he had in the postseason, how

20:02

many triple doubles he had in a regular season, all this stuff.

20:05

The article said,

20:06

and also

20:08

he holds the record for the fastest

20:11

triple double ever at 14

20:13

minutes and 33 seconds. I

20:15

was like, what? Wait,

20:19

this dude had a triple double in 14 minutes?

20:22

I had to go look it up. It was years ago

20:24

that that happened. I was like, how did I

20:26

miss that?

20:28

How do you get a triple double in 14 and

20:30

a half minutes? You want

20:32

to talk about it? I've

20:34

never heard that record before. You want

20:36

to talk about one that'll never be broken.

20:39

You have no chance of getting a triple

20:42

double in 14 and a half minutes. 99% of

20:45

the league never gets a triple double in their life.

20:48

This dude did it in 14 minutes. One

20:51

time, one of the things that I've

20:54

talked about for all of our seven

20:56

years on the pod together is

20:59

trying to keep things in perspective when we talk about younger

21:01

players in the league and about how

21:04

even the best it takes time

21:06

for them to win. We've talked about how

21:08

there's so many of these guys that have reached that 27, 28, 29. Sometimes

21:13

it can even be a little higher in the case

21:15

of a Shaq or a Kim El-Ijawan.

21:17

They were even a little older. But

21:20

now,

21:21

just to wit, Jokic, you

21:25

never believe this, he turned 28 in February. So

21:29

he was 27 when he started this season, but he's 28 now. Curry

21:33

was 27, LeBron is 27. Jokic

21:37

now at 28 years old, joins

21:40

Isaiah Thomas when he won his first title.

21:43

Moses Malone when he won his first title.

21:45

Shaquille O'Neal when he won his

21:48

first title. Michael

21:50

Jordan when he won his first title.

21:53

Kevin Durant when he won

21:56

his first title.

21:58

We just need to scout out.

21:59

out like who's around these ages because

22:03

it's crazy how many of the all-time

22:06

greats

22:07

are right at

22:09

this age or

22:11

right around it you know Yannis was a little

22:14

bit younger some guys have been a little bit older

22:16

and there's always like outliers but there's a

22:18

bunch

22:19

that are all in that 27 or 28

22:22

range and a lot of the

22:25

all-time greats and sure enough here's

22:27

that moment you know you you've been

22:29

through a lot in

22:31

many cases guys have like settled down

22:34

you saw him with that beautiful daughter that he

22:36

had while he was out there you know

22:39

celebrating his finals MVP and

22:42

your life's changed you

22:45

probably take things more seriously you're

22:47

a made man because you've got another contract

22:50

you care more about winning

22:52

you know sometimes than your individual statistics

22:55

as you get older and you become

22:57

a made man but just truly

23:00

an all-time great player and another

23:03

one of those that falls right in that

23:05

range it wasn't that he was never gonna

23:08

do it it was for whatever

23:11

reason this stuff

23:13

just takes time and

23:16

there's a there's kind of like this sweet

23:18

spot in age

23:20

that these guys are

23:22

when they're ready to be

23:24

the best player on the best team

23:27

alternatively Chris it might just be

23:29

about having Christian Brown on your roster

23:31

this is his fifth straight championship

23:34

he won three straight in high school yes

23:36

he won three straight in high school he won at Kansas

23:38

last year and then he wins in Denver

23:41

as a rookie that might actually be the secret

23:43

from now moving forward in the NBA

23:45

he's like the male uh Maya Moore

23:47

like Maya Moore he's always weird

23:50

right every time she like was on a

23:52

team at one Olympics

23:54

or like when she's played for the Minnesota Lynx

23:56

or UConn or anybody Maya

23:59

Moore won

23:59

played over in Russia, she won like

24:02

Maya Moore just was always winning.

24:04

You're right. And then she's got

24:06

a guy released from jail and married him and stopped

24:08

playing basketball. Amazing story.

24:11

Maybe Christian Brown will do that. But

24:16

you know, you're right though, Chris. I mean, we, this has

24:18

been a theme of

24:20

a lot of the conversations we've had over the years,

24:23

especially in regards to some

24:25

teams that felt ahead, like the Celtics.

24:27

You've probably used that example so many times

24:30

over the years with the Celtics. Right. That's

24:32

he, with young players, Tatum and Brown, blah, blah,

24:34

blah. It goes to apply us to a lot

24:36

of teams, but

24:37

for Yochit, you're right. He's at that

24:39

age. He's been through the losses.

24:42

He's withstanding some of those, you

24:44

know, defensive concerns in the past. He

24:47

had to improve his conditioning. There were

24:49

times throughout his career where he was scoring

24:51

like zero points in a game or

24:53

taking three shots. Cause he just

24:55

didn't feel like scoring on a night until he realized,

24:58

oh,

24:59

being selfless actually

25:02

means scoring because that's what

25:04

my team needs from me. And

25:06

he took a while to figure some of that out and become

25:09

two time MVP.

25:11

Now in NBA finals, MVP, a

25:13

champion, Michael Malone at the

25:15

podium again, after the game, talking about how this

25:17

is the start of a dynasty. It's cause of Yochit's

25:20

development into one of the top scorers in basketball.

25:22

And a good defender and one of the greatest

25:25

playmakers we've ever seen in any sport

25:27

ever.

25:28

And you know, what's crazy is

25:31

you have

25:33

never heard

25:36

cause there, it's even happening a little with

25:39

like Yannis now, like,

25:42

Oh, they better win or else. Right.

25:45

You've never heard a Yochit

25:48

rumor or they better do this

25:50

or Yochit may not want to be there or

25:52

is Yochit's going to go to a bigger market? Like

25:56

there's, I know, but there's just so much I

25:58

love about them.

25:59

winning that I think is good for the NBA. It's

26:02

a team that

26:04

has these guys, they went

26:07

through losing in the playoffs,

26:09

they got their playoff scars, they

26:11

kept these major pieces

26:13

together, even through tough

26:16

losses, even through some tough seasons,

26:18

even through an ACL tear,

26:21

where Jamal Murray was clearly not himself

26:24

for over a year and a half.

26:26

They stuck with their coach.

26:28

Yeah, great point. They

26:31

stuck through there, you know, and

26:34

they kept it together, and then they were the best

26:36

team throughout the regular season.

26:39

Uh, and so they did that validates

26:43

that. You know, we were in peril

26:46

of, oh God, does a regular

26:48

season matter at all? Well, this was

26:50

the best team in the Western Conference throughout

26:52

this season, and there's just so much about

26:54

the way they've done this

26:56

and kind of the story.

26:58

It tells about patients

27:01

with guys and

27:04

patients with a coach and

27:06

all of that stuff.

27:08

Ending up paying off because I think that

27:11

we're now in a day and age where everybody pulls

27:13

the plug, even on championship coaches, even

27:15

on rosters that might

27:17

just need some tinkering around the edges.

27:20

You know, there was probably a moment where

27:22

they had the discussion like, hey, do we want to stick

27:24

with this? Is, you know,

27:26

are we going to be able to win? Yokich

27:29

and Murray are our two best players.

27:32

And that was like probably a very

27:34

real conversation. It was. That everybody

27:36

has had, right? Like, do you need a better co-star

27:39

with Yokich? I mean, I felt that's- Well, Michael Malone

27:41

had a quote. Michael Malone had a quote a couple of weeks

27:43

ago, and I don't want to like, I figured out exactly

27:46

what he said, but I believe he said something along the lines

27:48

of like, Tim Connelly came to me in

27:50

the past with trade possibilities

27:53

involving Murray. And he said, no,

27:55

as the coach. No, like, let's stick with this

27:57

guy. And, you know, that's really the only thing that

27:59

changed.

27:59

Conley, you know, gets like double

28:02

the pay to go to from Denver to Minnesota

28:04

last year. Conley builds this great

28:07

foundation and Calvin Booth and

28:09

his first year as general manager taking

28:11

over after being the assistant GM

28:14

and then he became the general manager underneath Conley

28:16

for two years. He takes over and

28:18

he makes the perfect finishing touches

28:21

on this roster. Like

28:23

truly perfect. Yeah, unbelievable. That's

28:25

it. KCP. That

28:27

deal. Yes. That deal. Perfect.

28:31

KCP deal, the Brown deal, the drafting

28:33

Christian Brown, Jeff Green. I mean, 100%

28:36

Chris. Yeah. Yes.

28:38

And he put the finishing touches on this team

28:40

and Michael Malone built

28:42

a system and empowered his players

28:44

and they all bought into each other. It's like, yo,

28:47

get set after the game. You

28:48

know, this is a team where we're not winning for

28:50

ourselves. We're winning for the next guy,

28:53

our teammate, the guy next to us. And

28:55

it's true. This is the way this entire roster played.

28:57

It was, it was so beautiful to watch them

28:59

build throughout the year and then

29:01

get to this point. I doubted them.

29:03

I still had my concerns. I picked the sons to

29:05

beat them. I picked the Lakers to beat them. I

29:07

was wrong. I think, I think like looking

29:09

years back, like I was right

29:12

to see that Yocha could turn into something,

29:14

you know, a couple of years ago with Murray, like

29:17

the feature I wrote in the nuggets, but I didn't

29:19

see them winning this year. I didn't think they were

29:21

there just yet,

29:22

but they were, they were here. And

29:25

I think it's cause that last month and a half

29:29

that that's where they were coasting a bit. Yeah.

29:31

That's where Yocha took some time off, like not

29:33

time off, but it took some plays off.

29:36

That was probably to conserve

29:38

energy based off of lessons

29:41

learned about where I'd be curious to, if

29:43

you could get an honest answer out on Michael Malone about

29:45

that. I

29:46

wonder if any part of that was by design

29:48

after lessons learned and past postseason

29:51

runs, knowing how to fatigue that can build

29:53

in April, May and June. Did they say, Hey,

29:57

let's chill a little bit here. Let's relax.

30:00

Well, and also the goal,

30:02

you know, what was also great strategy

30:05

in terms of conserving is. Play

30:09

is close to the minimum amount

30:11

of games that you have to

30:14

in a post season. Cause if you

30:16

don't know,

30:18

don't have a 30 game postseason, just

30:21

have a 20 game, only lose four

30:23

games and just win

30:25

the 16 and everybody can

30:27

stay.

30:28

You know, pretty fresh, uh, over

30:31

the course of the, the few months,

30:34

um, you know, we've mentioned below and a couple of times,

30:36

I do want to

30:37

just say this too. Same kind of deal

30:40

where guy starts off

30:42

as, you know, when it's an assistant coach,

30:45

um, in college, no less. He's at

30:47

Oakland. He's a Providence. He's at Manhattan

30:51

as an assistant coach.

30:53

And then he's

30:56

assistant with the Knicks for four

30:58

years.

30:59

He's an assistant in Cleveland for five

31:01

years.

31:02

He's an assistant with the Hornets for a year.

31:04

He's the assistant with golden state

31:06

for two years and then

31:09

gets that King's job.

31:11

And from the Kings

31:14

ends up leaving there and

31:17

ends up with the Nuggets where he has been

31:19

since, uh, 2015.

31:22

As their head coach. And

31:24

so like

31:25

long time being

31:27

a part of started in the NBA

31:29

early 2000s, 2001.

31:32

And now you're at, you know, you're 22

31:35

years into this thing as being either

31:38

an assistant coach or a head coach and

31:41

he gets a job done. And again,

31:44

how many times have we, we're

31:47

talking about so many different

31:50

coaching changes and not

31:52

coaching changes of bad teams. Coaching

31:55

changes of good teams who

31:58

are going to try to get. a different

32:00

guy in there. And we're talking

32:02

about, you know, my booting holzers,

32:05

not the coach of the fucks anymore. And Nick Nurse isn't

32:07

the coach of the Raptors anymore. Doc Rivers isn't

32:09

the coach of the 76ers anymore. And Monte Williams

32:12

isn't the coach of the Phoenix Suns anymore. And

32:14

I mean, this is all, all these

32:16

guys

32:17

gone. And I think

32:19

that, I think there's something to be

32:21

said about they stuck

32:23

with this guy. Even though

32:26

he didn't have ultimate success, even

32:28

though they weren't repeat, you

32:30

know, Western Conference Finals team

32:34

every year. Um, you know,

32:36

they had, they had some duds in the playoffs

32:39

and they had some really cool

32:41

moments at the playoffs up until this

32:43

year. But, you

32:45

know, we live in a time where

32:48

these coaches are so easily discarded.

32:51

And I think there's something to it. There's, he

32:53

clearly has a

32:55

unbelievable relationship with his star

32:57

players.

32:58

Yeah, totally. And, and

33:00

then everything kind of falls in line

33:02

after that, and

33:05

it was, I think it's cool to get to see them all

33:07

do that together. Nobody's really a

33:09

mercenary. Except maybe

33:11

Bruce Brown, who comes in there for 6 million

33:14

bucks. And I mean, he's gonna,

33:16

what kind of fortune is he going to get in

33:18

the off season as compared to, I mean, he might've

33:20

just had the best contract ever for

33:22

a guy that contributed in the

33:25

manner that he did for 6 million

33:27

bucks. I'll be honest with you.

33:29

I mean, we talked about him a whole lot the last two

33:32

years in Brooklyn. I'm surprised he didn't

33:34

get paid last summer. I am. Well,

33:37

we were shots. I mean, that was a steal.

33:39

Yeah.

33:39

It was like, it was kind of

33:41

a pretty obvious steal at the time based

33:44

off of what he did in Brooklyn. But

33:46

for him, this

33:47

could actually lead to like an even bigger payday

33:50

though. The fact he now did it on a championship

33:52

team. I mean, maybe,

33:54

maybe, maybe it works out

33:56

that he got the deal that he did for what it's worth.

33:59

million dollars he was

34:01

paid this season with a player option for 6.8 next season

34:04

which he will absolutely decline.

34:06

I'd be shocked if he didn't get a full mid-level somewhere

34:09

upwards 10 plus million dollars.

34:12

But for him like maybe this works out for the best that

34:14

he could get a bigger long-term contract at this point.

34:18

So unbelievable season we certainly

34:21

believe that they are here to stay

34:23

in the future and much

34:25

like many champions in the past

34:27

teams are going to look and go that's

34:29

the team that's

34:32

the team to beat that's the team we're going to have

34:34

to get past in order to

34:36

be able to be a champion

34:38

that's the kind

34:41

of team we're gonna have to beat that's the kind of guy we're

34:43

gonna have to deal with in yoke-age.

34:46

Who's equipped in the West? Who's

34:50

set up best? Like Memphis Jaren

34:53

Jackson jr. Steven Adams?

34:56

I mean they're probably gonna announce a suspension

34:58

for their point tomorrow. I'm just starting

35:00

from the top of the West standings. I'm just going

35:02

like Sacramento?

35:03

I don't think so. What's the bonus?

35:06

Like you need you need some better interior

35:08

beef Phoenix? Look

35:12

dependent upon what they're able to do with the offseason

35:15

yeah they've clearly got two guys that are ready

35:17

to win right now we

35:19

talk about that age range and

35:22

I

35:23

think you've kind of got I think

35:25

you've kind of got two you've got the older

35:27

teams that aren't good enough clearly

35:31

and then you've got the teams that are still

35:34

a

35:35

ways away because of their youth

35:38

you know like Oklahoma City

35:40

is gonna be able to compete in a couple of years

35:42

and Memphis is gonna be there for

35:44

San Antonio possibly is

35:48

gonna be able to compete a couple of years but like

35:50

you've got the young teams

35:53

on one side and then you've got

35:55

the ones that have you know the the

35:57

veteran players but how are

36:00

How are they going to build out around Durant

36:03

and Booker? How are they going to build out around,

36:06

if it is still going to be Kawhi and

36:08

Paul George, how are they going to build out around

36:11

LeBron and A.D.

36:13

for the next couple of years?

36:15

I mean, that's going to tell us who could

36:17

compete with Denver. I think

36:20

the formula is probably something

36:22

more similar to what the Suns can

36:24

do with pull-up perimeter shooters

36:27

with Devin Booker, Kevin Durant, or

36:29

what the Warriors could do with Stephen Curry,

36:32

that type of player paired

36:34

with a great defense. The Suns defense

36:36

was not nearly good enough. The Warriors

36:38

have slipped. They need to restore what they

36:41

had last season and prior with

36:43

the first iteration of the dynasty. It's

36:46

that type of player

36:48

paired with a great defense. So you

36:50

don't necessarily have

36:51

to have, because nobody can stop

36:53

Jokic, just like nobody can stop

36:56

Stephen Curry pulling up from three.

36:59

There's really nothing he can do. You double team

37:01

him, you're in trouble. You single team him, you're in trouble.

37:03

There's no answer. You just get a prey.

37:06

So maybe it's not about

37:08

matching him with size, and it's

37:10

more so about what can you

37:12

counter with that is also unstoppable

37:14

with that perimeter shot, that pull-up

37:17

guy.

37:18

And somebody like, say, Phoenix

37:21

is the one that at least for two games

37:23

made them look more good.

37:27

And that was just because of excessive firepower.

37:32

And maybe Golden State could have given him a good

37:34

run too as well. Yeah,

37:36

maybe. Late Lakers, if they were to flip

37:39

D-Lo for Kyrie, that type of thing.

37:41

I don't know if Kyrie's swinging a series, but if he gets

37:44

hot, you know what I'm saying. The

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39:02

One thing we have not focused on is the

39:04

other side of this,

39:06

which is the Miami Heat, who were in the NBA

39:08

Finals, and though they got beat four

39:11

to one, they certainly put up a fight

39:14

and made Denver win

39:16

this. How do you think we're gonna

39:18

think about this and remember this? It

39:21

was a great run. It was a remarkable

39:24

run to get to this point. You beat the Bucks,

39:27

you beat a one seed, you

39:29

beat a two seed, you beat a tough

39:32

Knicks team. It's an amazing run, the fact they were

39:34

even in this point. It's miraculous that

39:36

an eight seed made it all this way to the Finals and

39:38

put up the fight that they did. But

39:40

I think ultimately, they'll just be

39:42

remembered just for that, an eight seed that made

39:45

the Finals, a footnote in NBA history.

39:48

And it's a very weird

39:50

circumstance because of

39:52

the way we think of both

39:54

of these teams

39:56

and their futures.

39:59

Like, it's- It's hard to gauge.

40:01

It's like you can't, I mean,

40:03

it's not like we're putting

40:06

Miami in what, as

40:08

one of the top four seeds going

40:10

into next year. Because they're not. If

40:12

anything, Miami needs changes. I mean,

40:15

like with all due respect, I love,

40:17

I love the career Kyle already had, but he's just

40:19

not the guy anymore, which is no

40:21

surprise. He's 37 years old.

40:24

Right. It'll be 38 next year in the playoffs.

40:27

I mean, it's not, not some shot of him to

40:29

say that Jimmy Butler, he

40:31

says after the game that he's not hurt that

40:33

his ankle's fine. They lost. There's no excuses,

40:37

but you know, regardless of what you say to

40:39

him, he's flanked by old man, Kevin

40:41

Love,

40:42

and he's flanked by undrafted guys who

40:44

they were hot and had great runs

40:47

during the post season,

40:48

but in some respects they fell back down to earth.

40:51

And with the heat, I think, I think

40:53

they're in a position now where they're

40:55

good enough. And clearly

40:57

they were in the finals. They're good enough that they should be

40:59

urgent in this off season to build around Butler

41:02

and BAM at a bio BAM, who was great

41:04

in this game, but

41:05

BAM BAM, as good as he is,

41:07

I still don't think he's the guy who should be taking 20 shots

41:10

every night. He should be more of your finisher

41:13

type, your connective piece, not

41:15

a guy you're relying on to take 20 shots

41:17

per game in the finals. They need somebody

41:20

who's an upgrade from Kyle Lowry. Isn't

41:22

it just fair to say, Kev? Yeah, they need one

41:25

dude. They need Damien Lillard. That's what

41:27

they need. Okay. They need to find. You

41:30

can flank

41:31

the rest of it with Lord knows

41:34

they need to find a role player. They

41:36

got role players for days.

41:38

They need one more guy. Jimmy

41:40

and BAM. And then they would be

41:44

a title contender. Assuming,

41:46

assuming it's an awesome play. Can you, can you imagine

41:48

Damien lowered like running dribble handoffs

41:50

with BAM at a bio high pick and roll.

41:52

And then you got Butler flanking out, like

41:54

hit the tack and close outs or Butler's

41:57

running the pick and roll. I mean, it's just the offensive

41:59

possibility.

41:59

are endless and because you have so many great

42:02

parts on defense with BAM as

42:04

your rim protector and all these solid

42:07

tough hard-nosed wing defenders Butler included,

42:10

Daim would be protected on the defense

42:12

more than he ever has been in any season

42:15

of his career with Portland. It's just

42:17

a matter of this is some dream, right?

42:20

But it's not just a dream though, because Daim

42:22

himself said on a

42:24

podcast on Showtime, if

42:26

you're traded, where would you like to go?

42:29

What teams would come to mind? He's like, Miami because

42:31

I'm boys with BAM and Abbio or

42:33

Brooklyn because I'm boys with

42:35

Miguel Bridges. So it's

42:38

coming from Lillard himself. And

42:40

I think for Portland, that's

42:43

what's going to be so fascinating. It's June 12th as

42:45

we record this, 10 days until the

42:47

NBA draft over these next 10 days,

42:50

which could bleed into the offseason.

42:53

Does Miami have the pieces?

42:55

Can they put an offer together? Hero, a

42:58

bunch of future picks.

43:00

Can they put a deal together to go get Daim in

43:02

lower? That's going to be the number one thing on my

43:04

mind when it comes to the Miami Heat, the soft

43:06

season, because I don't know who else, if it's not Daim,

43:09

who else would you think makes sense

43:11

as a target besides him? Fred

43:14

Van Vliet? I mean, I don't

43:16

think he gets you there where you need. I

43:18

would rather be. I think

43:21

Van Vliet would be perfect there. Yeah, but

43:23

Van Vliet's nowhere

43:25

near the same class as Daim. Yeah,

43:27

but it takes away. Like, look, a

43:29

lot of the stuff that Van Vliet can be

43:31

deficient in is covered

43:34

up by the others. And he's the

43:36

kind of guy that can play in those like, grind

43:40

out tough, hard nose games.

43:42

Like, yeah, I think Van Vliet would be a good

43:44

fit there. Yeah, I think he'd be a good

43:46

fit. But

43:50

I mean, he's the same kind of like, let's

43:52

go into a, let's go, let's go have a street

43:55

fight. He is a kind of guy that you

43:57

can bring to a street fight.

43:59

How about Beal? I mean,

44:02

that is not the kind of guy you bring to a street.

44:10

I'm just throwing names out there. He's a very talented

44:13

guy. Right. Let the league in scoring or

44:15

close to somebody like that.

44:19

I mean, I

44:21

think you're kind of duplicating Jimmy. I agree.

44:24

Guard thing. Totally agree with you. I

44:26

think it's about the, it's the Lowry

44:29

upgrade.

44:29

How do you upgrade there? Is there all

44:32

crazy if it was family considering that

44:35

they took that spot after he left.

44:37

Yeah. That'd be kind of wild. Uh,

44:39

is there as the other, and then you

44:41

get the, maybe a, well, no, you'd have to sign

44:43

a trade if it was going to be a Kyle reunion

44:46

back. It's my son. Really silly.

44:48

Yeah. Um, uh,

44:51

I'll, I'll leave the name out,

44:53

but do you think it makes any sense to

44:56

add a Kevin love upgrade

44:58

like a, a big man who can space

45:00

the floor? Sure.

45:04

I also think maybe just some muscle. They

45:06

were too small. They finally

45:08

got exposed for being too small. That's

45:10

what Aaron Gordon had the series that he did.

45:13

Yeah. He's two, he's two,

45:15

he's two athletic. He's too strong.

45:18

You know, these different series like,

45:20

and I know that people said like Aaron Gordon's finally

45:23

getting to be Aaron Gordon, like Aaron Gordon's getting to

45:25

play against small guys, Aaron Gordon

45:27

had to play against big guys

45:29

in the last round and they stopped caring

45:31

about him and he ended up having to get benched. So

45:34

like it, it, it with role

45:36

players, like stars

45:38

you expect to be good. No matter the matchup

45:41

role players are

45:43

largely dependent on who

45:45

you're matched up with

45:46

on the other team, and sometimes they can

45:49

play unbelievable. I eat

45:51

Caleb Martin, I E Aaron

45:54

Gordon

45:55

and like their,

45:57

their performance can fluctuate great.

46:00

depending on the matchup. But Miami

46:04

finally, Denver, or I'm

46:06

sorry, Milwaukee

46:09

was not good when

46:11

they played Giannis and Brooke

46:14

together. And

46:17

they got punished

46:18

for being big because

46:21

the small ball that Miami was playing

46:24

beat them to death because

46:25

there's space in them out so bad. And

46:27

so the

46:29

net rating for those two on the court

46:31

together was pitiful. You would think

46:33

you'd be dominant, but they didn't punish

46:35

Miami for being small. Miami

46:38

punished them for being big.

46:40

And then they got to the next round

46:42

and Boston's just

46:44

shooting a thousand threes no matter

46:46

what, not putting pressure on the rim. So

46:49

they didn't punish them. They finally ran

46:51

into a team. Denver punished them

46:53

for being small. So

46:55

whether it's a guy that could space out the floor or

46:57

somebody that could just, you know,

47:00

how many times have we talked about like

47:03

the guy that can be the defensive?

47:05

Yes, he can be an anchor, but also how

47:08

nice is it to have a big body

47:10

and let the other guy fly around like

47:12

Giannis gets to like, Jaron Jackson

47:14

gets to like,

47:16

you know, Sergio Baca got to back in

47:18

the day playing alongside Steven Adams. I

47:20

mean, how awesome would BAM be in

47:23

that role? Well, that got a big lug

47:25

next to him. A hundred percent. That's why

47:27

the name becomes to mind.

47:30

Chris, poor Zingus.

47:32

Oh, what if, what if you,

47:35

you and on one side,

47:38

I mean, we're, we're really playing NBA

47:40

2k here with these, this trade idea, but like just

47:42

off the top of my head,

47:44

salary wise, I believe this works.

47:46

If you did Tyler, hero,

47:49

Kyle, Larry, Victor, Ola, Depot,

47:51

and three or four first

47:53

round picks spread out, you

47:55

know, all those assets spread out amongst

47:57

the Portland Trail Wizards and the Washington Wizards. You

48:00

get back Damien lowered and Kristoff's

48:02

for Zingas. Maybe add some swaps if you have

48:04

to. Good grief. Are you throwing

48:06

together fantasy trades? You throw you

48:08

may. I'm just,

48:10

I'm just spitball here. But if the wizards

48:12

were to blow it up, KP

48:15

is on a one year deal. He also has a player option.

48:17

He could become a free agent hypothetically.

48:21

I don't know what the market would be for KP

48:24

with only one year left on his deal and his injury

48:26

history. But like if you, if

48:28

you send the picks to Portland, if

48:30

they get like four firsts, then

48:32

you send a hero to the wizards hero for

48:35

KP is a pretty good return.

48:37

Right. That's a pretty good return.

48:40

I mean, I don't think, uh,

48:42

for Zingas is he culture. I

48:45

don't know. I don't know. Strike me as that

48:47

kind of guy. I mean, hail on the side white

48:50

side was at one point. So what do I know? Yeah,

48:52

I know. That's what I'm saying. Like a K KP KP.

48:56

He's injury prone, but he's, it's

48:58

not like he's not a shop locker or a

49:00

defensive enforcer.

49:02

He can space the four from three. The things

49:04

that he does well, I think he would

49:06

only be asked to do if he's playing next

49:09

to Bam out of bio in the front court and screening

49:11

for Dame. I don't know. I'm just, I'm just,

49:14

they don't need to spend their money on that. Dude. They

49:16

just need a lead guard and get a big

49:18

lug.

49:19

I don't know. Get a big body. I'm

49:22

intrigued by KP. Like what, what if you

49:24

figured something out health wise last year? It was as healthy

49:26

a season of his career. What if something changed?

49:30

I know that they stink and I know they

49:32

stunk, but he, but he did play 65 games for

49:35

the first time since like he was 20 years old.

49:38

No, he shot 39. We should have

49:40

a party for him. I

49:43

don't know. I just, I just think for Miami.

49:45

Yes. Chris, you're right

49:47

that there's risk involved there, but she got to take

49:50

risk, man. The bucks are going

49:52

to fire back the cell. That's not what I'd

49:54

spend my money on is what I'm saying. I

49:56

know, but you get it. You get it. Make some tweaks

49:58

on your team to add size.

49:59

said you yourself just said imagine BAM

50:02

and that type of role. How many bigs in the

50:04

how many bigs can allow BAM to play that role?

50:06

Brook Lopez, he's not going to Miami. He's

50:08

going to return to Milwaukee or get a big contract

50:11

with Houston or somebody else. Who else?

50:14

Miles Turner. He's not that guy. Turner's

50:16

not that guy. He's not available anyway.

50:19

So who? You've seen

50:21

all manner of guys be able

50:23

to be the, you know, like,

50:26

I'm talking about the Steven Adams type

50:28

that we talked about. But that works because

50:31

that works. That

50:33

works because Jaron Jackson Jr. Can shoot the

50:35

shit out of it from three. Do

50:37

you need one of those guys who can shoot threes?

50:39

I mean, Janice

50:42

and Brook Lopez don't shoot threes. Brook

50:44

Lopez shoots threes. He shoots like seven a game

50:46

or something like that. And he shoots them

50:48

at like 35%. One of them

50:51

asked to shoot threes or it doesn't work. Even

50:53

with Cleveland, they need Evan Mobley to

50:55

start shooting threes or it's not going to work. I'm

50:58

trying to go through the centers

51:02

and just not many. I mean, how many times have I

51:04

said to you on the pod that are going to stretch the

51:07

floor out to three? Yeah, but how

51:09

many times have I said to you in the pot? There's only

51:11

one Brook Lopez.

51:12

The closest proximity to that is probably

51:15

Christoph Sporzingis. Carl Anthony

51:17

Towns, you could throw his name out there, but I

51:19

think he's he'd be too unaffordable

51:21

in this

51:22

hypothetical off season we're

51:24

talking about for the heat to build

51:27

and get better next season and be a top team

51:29

in the East.

51:30

The path is there. I just I

51:33

mean, Bob. Well,

51:36

Bob has proven anything. I

51:38

like Bob, but he hasn't proven anything.

51:42

There's not many guys.

51:46

Is it a rookie? Could it be like a drafting

51:48

and Noah Clowney out of Alabama? Is

51:51

it a rookie? Maybe it's a rookie. I don't know. Maybe

51:53

it's a dude they have. You're seven or whatever.

51:56

Somebody like that.

51:59

It's just not a lot of guys, man. That's,

52:02

that's tough for Miami though. Cause

52:04

like, even with this theoretical, I'd be very curious

52:06

to hear from heat fans about this conversation

52:09

we're having. Like what, what do you guys prioritize

52:11

for Miami this off season? Do you, do you like

52:14

the Dame KP

52:17

hypothetical or sure? Just be one guy.

52:20

I don't know about your right, Chris, whether it's a big

52:23

or big wings, they need to add

52:25

some size. They get it. They get to get beefier

52:27

at that three, four spot on

52:30

their roster. Cause they were definitely getting, when you're getting overmatched

52:32

by Aaron Gordon and the playoffs,

52:34

like you get a match up with size and they just

52:36

didn't have the solutions on their roster at all.

52:39

Couple of other things before we get out of here.

52:41

Uh, we were talking about coaching earlier

52:44

and about Michael Malone and the fact

52:46

that Denver stuck with him.

52:49

We know that there was going to be a bunch of coaching changes.

52:51

We've talked about most of those coaching

52:54

roles being filled. Um,

52:56

Toronto though, filled theirs

52:59

since we last spoke and as a guy that

53:01

I'm familiar with, uh, dark or

53:03

a Yakovic who has been the

53:05

lead assistant for

53:07

the Memphis Grizzlies. Um,

53:10

tell me about it. I know nothing. Okay.

53:13

Well, uh, you may have

53:15

seen, or you could find somewhere, uh, during

53:19

one of the pregame media availabilities, uh,

53:25

uh, the Joker was asked about him.

53:27

Uh, Nicholas Jokic and

53:29

he raved about

53:31

him. Uh, he's Serbian. Yeah.

53:34

I'm a server came over with

53:36

a Igor Koshkukoff. You remember

53:38

the guy that coached the, the sons for a minute. Um,

53:42

and so was there, uh, I

53:44

believe it was in Oklahoma city also,

53:46

uh, with that like 66 or

53:49

team, um, and assisted

53:51

there. And

53:53

anyways, he has been in Memphis for a couple

53:55

of years and

53:57

I will tell you.

54:00

Everybody loves him. Like

54:03

everybody is thrilled for

54:05

him. That is that

54:07

he's getting this opportunity and

54:09

that he's getting higher by Toronto. Everybody hates

54:12

to lose him. And I'll

54:15

just give you one quick anecdote about

54:17

him. Number

54:20

one, in terms of player development, he has

54:22

been crucial

54:24

to the development of some

54:27

players that have improved greatly. You

54:30

will see him. He's like a hands-on

54:32

coach too.

54:34

And the players love him. And he was

54:36

out there.

54:37

He is in large

54:40

part very responsible

54:42

for Desmond Bain,

54:44

becoming a guy that was a pretty mechanical

54:46

ball handler

54:48

and a guy that was a

54:49

catch and shoot

54:51

guy to a guy that could really

54:53

put the ball on the ground and

54:55

be a fantastic two guard.

54:58

Who was scoring 33 and 36

55:01

and having huge playoff games. And

55:04

Bain loves him and he worked a lot with Bain.

55:06

And then Jaren as

55:08

well. Jaren Jackson Jr. worked extensively

55:11

with him. Like helped make

55:14

those players improve greatly.

55:17

So much of these

55:19

guys, you got guys with talent. And

55:21

now how do you get them to reach

55:24

their apex? And it's guys like this

55:26

guy, Darko Ryakovic, who can

55:30

harness that talent. And we

55:34

talk, especially now,

55:36

player development. It's a

55:38

huge deal. So the anecdote is this.

55:41

You

55:41

may remember a couple of months ago, Jaren Jackson

55:43

Jr. was awarded defensive

55:45

player of the year. His

55:47

mom showed up at his house

55:50

with

55:50

like all of these balloons and

55:52

everything. And his mom was there. Like the TNT camera was

55:55

in there. And it was just him and his

55:57

mom that were there at the.

56:00

at his house and

56:02

Taylor Jenkins showed up at

56:04

his house to like surprise him after

56:07

He was

56:09

after he had won the award whatever but

56:11

then maybe like 10 minutes

56:14

later the doorbell rings and

56:16

Jaron Jackson opens up the door and

56:19

Darko is there with a Jaron

56:21

Jackson jr. Jersey on and

56:24

I think it lets you know like

56:26

And this is you know the seasons Seems

56:30

going on but he he shows up at the

56:32

door this growth bed wearing

56:34

a Jaron Jackson jr. Jersey shows

56:36

up at his house to surprise him to

56:38

congratulate him on

56:40

winning the award and I will tell you

56:42

that it's just it's a glimpse into

56:46

We talked sometimes about like players coaches

56:48

and guys that

56:50

Players really love

56:52

this is that guy

56:54

That's who they got

56:56

in Toronto and Great

56:58

basketball mind and I'll

57:00

just say everybody in Memphis gonna

57:02

gonna miss him badly

57:04

he has been he's been very good for a

57:06

young team and those

57:08

players love that guy and

57:10

so Think you

57:13

know they're going into a different clearly.

57:15

We just talked about van Vliet They're

57:18

going into a different direction in

57:20

Toronto. I think

57:21

you know I think it'd be very hard to take over

57:24

for Nick nurse be given the same roster

57:26

They'd be judged to see if you can win as many

57:28

games I don't think they're gonna have close to

57:30

the same roster in Toronto

57:32

and I think he's a good one to invest in

57:35

as a young you know a

57:37

guy getting his first job and Kind

57:40

of build a roster with

57:42

him in mind too, but everybody from

57:44

Serbia and everybody from the United States I

57:46

know that knows this guy loves this guy So

57:49

your impression you know based on her everything

57:51

in Memphis is that

57:52

this signals the Raptors

57:54

are Heading towards a retooling

57:57

phase rather than I would think so, right?

57:59

Yeah

57:59

This isn't like you don't hire a

58:03

guy like this to win right now.

58:05

Yeah, necessarily. Usually

58:08

you hire first time head coaches,

58:10

right? In order to, to build

58:13

with them. Because the coach

58:15

is going to grow as the team grows. Yeah,

58:19

I agree. Yeah.

58:22

I mean, it's different. If you if you bring in Doc

58:24

Rivers, it's like, okay, we're trying to win tomorrow.

58:28

If you bring in a first time head coach, I don't

58:30

I don't necessarily feel that way. You

58:32

know, you even saw Phoenix, everybody

58:35

thought they were bringing in a first time head coach, right?

58:38

That was what everybody said.

58:41

Is they're bringing in the guy that was there, Kevin Young

58:44

or whatever. Next thing you know, they

58:46

bring in Frank Vogel.

58:48

Yeah, because they're trying to win tomorrow.

58:52

You know, so anyway, I

58:54

think Toronto did good. Everybody loves this guy. And

58:57

he was great. He's great. Well, he was

58:59

in Memphis for sure. We covered all the

59:01

other coaching news, right? I think we got every other coach,

59:03

obviously, the Celtics beefed up their staff, they

59:05

had Sam Cassell and Charles

59:08

Lee from Milwaukee that that's encouraging, you

59:10

know, to help out Joe Missoula next year

59:12

that gives him veteran support to, you know,

59:15

Sam Cassell and Charles Lee have both been head coaching

59:18

candidates forever.

59:19

So I mean, that that helps out

59:21

Boston. What else was in the news

59:23

today? Oh, yeah, New Orleans,

59:26

New Orleans trying to trade up. You saw that, right?

59:29

They're trying to trade up in the draft. Yeah, Sham

59:31

Sharani said earlier today, that

59:33

the Pelicans are trying to acquire

59:36

the second or third pick. And

59:38

they're targeting scoot Henderson out of the G

59:40

League Ignite point guard. So

59:43

for New Orleans, it's going

59:45

to be interesting to see what the draft package is

59:47

there. They have the 14th pick in

59:50

this year's draft.

59:52

They have all of their future picks.

59:54

They also have three other first round

59:56

draft picks, one from the Lakers to from

59:58

the Bucks. They also have them some swap

1:00:00

possibilities with the Bucks as well. So they have a

1:00:02

lot of picks they can offer, but I don't think those

1:00:06

picks and 14 are enough

1:00:08

to move up to two or three. To me, I

1:00:11

think you got to be giving Brandon Ingram or

1:00:13

Zion Williamson in that deal. If

1:00:16

it's with Charlotte,

1:00:17

both of them are Carolina natives.

1:00:19

Ingram would make sense with Lamello Ball

1:00:22

and Charlotte. He would make sense with

1:00:25

Damian Lorde in Portland as well. I'm

1:00:28

just intrigued. I think New Orleans can offer a

1:00:30

very interesting trade package for to Portland

1:00:33

or to Charlotte to get Scoot

1:00:36

Henderson.

1:00:37

Would you give up Ingram to get to? No.

1:00:40

No. I mean,

1:00:43

he can't pay all those guys in New Orleans.

1:00:45

I don't know. That's the tough part, man. I

1:00:48

mean, I'm hiring on Ingram than the

1:00:50

average person, but

1:00:53

at the same time, I don't

1:00:56

think he's fully

1:00:59

returned to the guy that

1:01:01

we saw his final year in LA on defense.

1:01:03

There's been little glimpses of

1:01:06

him being a very good defender, but they've

1:01:08

been an average or below average

1:01:10

team without Zion Williamson.

1:01:12

We have a large

1:01:14

sample size with no Zion Williamson.

1:01:17

We just have never seen them for any amount

1:01:20

of time together. Which is really disappointing.

1:01:22

I know. I still have my question. You're not

1:01:25

turning up for Brandon

1:01:29

Miller necessarily either because he's like

1:01:31

an unproven version of Brandon

1:01:33

Ingram.

1:01:34

Scoot Henderson,

1:01:36

I like Scoot a lot, but

1:01:39

for New Orleans with where they are, unless they're fully

1:01:41

ready to take a step back and

1:01:44

go into retool period here after

1:01:47

trying to accelerate things, getting CJ McCollum,

1:01:50

maybe you take a little bit of a step back now and

1:01:53

go and vibe with the youth of

1:01:55

this roster with Ayson Daniels and Trey

1:01:57

Murphy and whoever you keep between

1:01:59

Zion. on and Ingram. I

1:02:02

do get the logic behind it. I do. Who

1:02:06

would have ever said that they should

1:02:08

have paid attention to growing a roster

1:02:11

together on a timeline? Yeah,

1:02:14

you're right. You're right. They probably did accelerate

1:02:16

things too much. They

1:02:17

were banking on Zion staying healthy. That

1:02:19

didn't happen. And maybe that was a dumb bet

1:02:21

to make, as you sang to me during

1:02:23

our live show earlier this year with the

1:02:26

acoustic guitar. But,

1:02:28

but I think more than anything else, I

1:02:30

mean, aside from the injuries, CJ just has not

1:02:33

been what he had to be for the Pelicans.

1:02:35

I mean, he's past

1:02:37

his prime. I mean,

1:02:40

yeah, sure. They got it. Yeah. Yeah. I

1:02:42

think the best CJ years were honestly

1:02:45

ripping the hearts out of the aforementioned

1:02:48

Denver Nuggets. Yeah. Yeah.

1:02:51

It's kind of crazy to think back, right? Him

1:02:53

going all the road and pulling off one

1:02:55

of the great playoff performances we've ever seen.

1:02:57

Yeah. And that's, those

1:03:00

are those moments in the story of the Denver Nuggets.

1:03:06

Now that they get to this point

1:03:09

and once upon a time they were getting their hearts ripped

1:03:11

out by CJ McCollum. And now

1:03:13

they're the ones that are champions. It's crazy. It's

1:03:16

crazy, you know? What a way to bring

1:03:18

in the podcast. Full circle, Chris. There

1:03:20

you go. Full circle. Here

1:03:23

they are. The Denver Nuggets, NBA finals

1:03:25

champions. Pretty cool.

1:03:27

They are awesome. Love it. NBA finals champions.

1:03:29

And they

1:03:31

did. That's a solid. Um,

1:03:34

I'm going to be, for anybody

1:03:36

that we have out there that's crossover fan, a

1:03:39

golf fan, I'm going to be doing US

1:03:41

Open coverage on Peacock on

1:03:43

Thursday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday. And

1:03:46

because I'm

1:03:48

going to their studios, we

1:03:51

were having to figure out what we were going to do on Thursday

1:03:53

and try to play it around as I'm on

1:03:55

the East coast, maybe doing it after

1:03:58

a game six.

1:04:00

This is no longer a concern, Kevin. There

1:04:02

is no game six. So,

1:04:04

shots to the nuggets. Well,

1:04:06

we'll just record after golf earlier in the night.

1:04:09

Perfect. It's also

1:04:11

right up the street from me in the US Open. It's

1:04:13

in LA this year.

1:04:15

It is. You have to go over there. I

1:04:17

drove by a bunch of the signs today.

1:04:19

It's like everywhere. There's a bridge

1:04:22

on the street for crossing over different sides

1:04:24

of the course. My barber today,

1:04:26

Steve said that people are calling all

1:04:28

day long. The phone's ringing, hey, I need a cut.

1:04:31

You're going to any last second spots. I'm going to the

1:04:33

US Open this week. Everybody in LA,

1:04:35

they're excited. A lot of golf tees

1:04:37

out on the streets.

1:04:39

Trust me, people to be like, oh,

1:04:43

wow, where are you going to stay out in LA?

1:04:45

I was like, I'm going to Stanford, Connecticut.

1:04:48

I know. Why

1:04:50

are they not sending you to LA? Is

1:04:53

it TV studio? It's a TV studio,

1:04:55

yeah. It's where they actually do

1:04:58

a football night in America. Really?

1:05:01

Yeah. Are you going to be on set?

1:05:04

What's your role for this?

1:05:06

Yes. Are you hosting?

1:05:07

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1:05:10

Best way to describe it. Me and there's

1:05:12

a guy named Johnson Wagner who is, he's

1:05:14

a three-time PGA winner. He's analyst.

1:05:17

He's on the golf channel a lot.

1:05:18

He's great.

1:05:21

It'll be me and him. Basically,

1:05:25

NBC has the US Open, and

1:05:27

so they've got all

1:05:29

these different outlets, feeds. This

1:05:32

is going to be one of the alternate feeds

1:05:34

for the US Open. Oh, that's cool. Ours

1:05:37

will be like a red zone. That's

1:05:39

the best way for me to describe it. That's great. It'll be a red

1:05:42

zone for golf. Basically, yes, I just have

1:05:44

to like, we throw to

1:05:46

this, throw to that, but we've got the featured groups,

1:05:48

we've got the holes,

1:05:51

and then we've got. They're like

1:05:53

Scott Hanson. Like the main feed

1:05:55

that it'll be on. Yeah, but

1:05:58

it's kind of like cross between. that and

1:06:00

maybe like a kind of like a Manicast

1:06:02

type thing. Like we're not talking over the action,

1:06:05

but we're in like, I think,

1:06:07

Lazy Boys. Like

1:06:09

it's not like, I mean I

1:06:11

told them when they called me, I was like, I'm not Bob Costas

1:06:14

here, alright. So hopefully I

1:06:17

don't screw it up. Because

1:06:19

I, I told, Well they probably,

1:06:21

they recognize you from A, you

1:06:23

know, your Augusta song

1:06:25

on the Chris Vernon show, Local in Memphis, goes

1:06:27

viral every year.

1:06:28

And they probably listen to you do the halftime

1:06:31

shows with Memphis and they listen to this podcast.

1:06:33

He's like, yeah, he'll bring a, he'll bring his

1:06:35

energy. That's what they want you for. They want you to be

1:06:37

Chris Vernon. They don't want you to be Bob Costas. They want

1:06:40

me to, they want me to be Mr. Peacock.

1:06:42

So that's what I'm gonna be. So

1:06:44

I have to, I have to get a free trial to, to

1:06:47

watch this? Yes, you have to get a free trial of Peacock. Okay.

1:06:49

Yes. Alright. And you have to become

1:06:51

a golf fan also. Well, I mean, I don't know if that's gonna happen.

1:06:54

Ah, well, maybe you could get an invite

1:06:56

over to

1:06:57

Lionel Richie's house. When I was doing all the research,

1:07:00

he lives out there. Oh yeah? Yeah.

1:07:02

He lives on like, like one of his houses, like

1:07:04

behind one of the greens. Really? Wow.

1:07:07

He must have a gigantic house.

1:07:10

The Playboy Mansion's out there too, I think. Yeah, it

1:07:12

is. It's super close. Yep. that

1:07:15

golf course. I think it's pretty hoity-toity place, man. Yeah.

1:07:19

I mean, I don't think, I don't think Kevin O'Connor

1:07:21

could just go over there and get

1:07:23

a membership. I couldn't

1:07:25

either. Oh, what golf course is it? It's

1:07:28

LA Country Club. You ain't getting into that thing. LA

1:07:30

Country Club.

1:07:32

There was this story I was reading. It said, you know,

1:07:34

Groucho Marx, the famous, you know, actor,

1:07:36

comedian, back in like the thirties. Groucho

1:07:40

Marx famously got turned

1:07:42

down from being

1:07:44

there. And he said, I wouldn't want to be a member at

1:07:46

a place that would take me anyway. Wow.

1:07:49

According to Google, it says, actually

1:07:52

this is the website, countryclubprices.com.

1:07:55

It says, entry fee for

1:07:57

membership is $25,000. Oh,

1:08:01

it's way more than that.

1:08:03

Yes. Good grief. You can't get in

1:08:05

you have to be it's one of those you have to be asked

1:08:07

You

1:08:09

have to be asked really okay. Yeah,

1:08:12

right cool. Right? It says 200k

1:08:15

equity membership will likely cost 200k

1:08:18

plus so it could be much more Yeah

1:08:22

There ain't nobody there doesn't make

1:08:25

millions Sure,

1:08:27

geez, it'd be fun though Hopefully

1:08:30

I don't screw it up. Hey, and if I do

1:08:33

you'll be great. I still got three jobs. What does it

1:08:35

matter? We're

1:08:38

gonna do fire me you'll

1:08:40

do great I

1:08:41

wish I wish I could

1:08:43

I wish that these golf courses could have like

1:08:45

a A membership

1:08:48

just to enjoy it as like a park, you know

1:08:50

like off-hours now. They don't

1:08:52

want vagrants like you around Congratulations

1:08:58

to the Denver Nuggets

1:09:00

worthy

1:09:02

NBA champions and as

1:09:04

we put a bow on this

1:09:06

The regular season stunk this year the postseason

1:09:09

was wildly entertaining. It

1:09:11

was a kickass. Yeah, it was

1:09:13

this great

1:09:16

The regular season had its funny

1:09:18

moments Enjoyable

1:09:21

moments like there was that that Twitter thread

1:09:23

that went very viral recently about you

1:09:25

know This was the funniest NBA season ever

1:09:27

and you get LeBron crying of the raps and

1:09:30

Patrick Beverly showing the camera So

1:09:33

many other things that happened throughout the year

1:09:36

But the games missed during the regular season

1:09:38

were an absolute bummer, but the regular season

1:09:41

In comparison to the playoffs what a dramatic

1:09:44

difference man. This postseason was awesome Through

1:09:46

and through every every

1:09:48

round was great with so many spectacular

1:09:50

moments