0:00

This is the BBC.

0:02

This podcast is supported

0:04

by advertising outside the UK.

0:07

Hey. Hi, Jamie. Hi.

0:10

Jamie and Georgia here from the

0:12

missing Crypto Queen podcast. a

0:14

bit of news. Some of you've been asking the

0:17

next episode of the missing crypto queen.

0:19

What's that episode eleven? I said eleven.

0:21

Eleven now. Wow. I said eleven. Is

0:23

coming out on the nineteenth of

0:26

October.

0:27

And we are working on it right now, the Rob

0:29

hit. And why

0:31

are you waiting for that? dropping

0:34

episode one of another podcast

0:36

that I've been working on Ben Wilde into the

0:38

feed.

0:39

I've been listening to that. That's really good. Thanks,

0:41

mate.

0:42

Bern Wilde is presented by a journalist

0:45

called Lias Sottile, and it's the story of

0:47

how group of environmentalists became

0:49

a domestic terror priority. without

0:51

ever causing physical injury to anyone.

0:54

Leo and I have been recording with members of

0:56

that group, including one man

0:59

on the run and on the FBI's host

1:01

wanted domestic terrorist for more than

1:03

a decade. Eventually captured,

1:06

we've been with him as his case goes through

1:08

the courts. It's case unfolding right

1:10

now Like the missing Crypto

1:13

queen, this is a story where as you

1:15

peel back the layers, nothing is

1:17

quite what it seems. Hope

1:18

you enjoy.

1:22

BBC sounds, music, radio,

1:24

podcasts. Before

1:26

we get started, quick note that

1:28

this episode contains strong language.

1:30

On

1:36

a clear cold night, two

1:38

people are driving in a pickup truck

1:40

up the side of a mountain in Vail, Colorado.

1:43

I

1:45

quit my job, got my truck,

1:47

started driving

1:48

north,

1:51

And I didn't know where we were going. I didn't know

1:53

what the target was. It was exciting, but

1:55

also right away gave me a sense of,

1:57

we're doing a dangerous thing here.

2:00

This is Chelsea Gerlock, and

2:02

the target was a building,

2:04

a popular ski resort,

2:06

which had recently gotten plans approved

2:08

that would expand it through eight hundred

2:10

acres of forest. And

2:13

the two in the pickup truck, they'd

2:15

come to

2:16

make sure that didn't happen.

2:18

It was, you know,

2:20

a shocking action, a destructive action,

2:23

a scary action, On

2:25

the way, they picked up all the materials

2:27

they needed to succeed.

2:30

Even in going shopping, we're

2:32

doing a clandestine action

2:34

here. And then you're gonna wear a baseball

2:36

cap so that the overhead cameras can't see your

2:38

face.

2:39

At

2:40

some point along the way, we had all of the components

2:43

that we needed. We rented a

2:45

hotel room and essentially made a clean

2:47

room,

2:49

donned, bunny suits, and

2:51

hats and gloves and masks

2:55

and had instructions

2:55

to make a

2:58

timed and sedentary device. They

3:01

would destroy it with homemade fire

3:03

bombs. Gas cans

3:05

rigged up with time that would go

3:07

off

3:08

and burn it to the ground. We

3:12

were, by that time, psychologically, we

3:15

were prepared for the scale

3:17

of what we were

3:17

doing.

3:20

It was the night of October nineteenth

3:23

nineteen ninety eight. they traveled

3:25

a long, long way and they

3:27

were committed to carrying out this mission

3:30

no matter what.

3:34

By the time we got to the mountain, there had been

3:36

a snowstorm. and

3:39

we got stuck in the snow

3:41

in the middle of the night, partway

3:43

up the mountain.

3:47

It

3:47

might have been an opportunity that other people

3:49

would have stopped and turned around, steered

3:52

back down the mountain, taken it as

3:54

a sign perhaps,

3:56

but they didn't. they kept going.

4:00

We

4:00

had no idea how we were gonna pull that

4:02

off just the two of us.

4:06

They kept going going until the fire bombs were

4:09

planted, and then they drove away.

4:11

The mountain, just a shadow

4:13

in the rearview mirror.

4:15

I saw this orange glow

4:17

on the mountain, but I couldn't

4:19

quite identify if it was fire, but

4:21

then I had a scanner, a police scanner

4:23

in my truck.

4:26

And the first thing that I heard was

4:28

a

4:28

call from mutual aid so

4:31

they

4:31

were calling a a neighboring fire department

4:34

to help put off the fire. So

4:38

at that point, I knew that it

4:43

happened. The

4:53

arsenic vail caused over ten

4:56

million dollars of damages.

4:59

The buildings were blackened and destroyed.

5:03

The arsonist issued a statement. It

5:05

said putting profits

5:07

ahead of Colorado's wildlife will

5:09

not be tolerated. This action

5:12

is just a warning.

5:17

Chelsea Gerlach was part of radical

5:19

environmental movement that wanted to

5:22

bring about change. There's

5:24

was a group that had moved far far

5:26

beyond holding signs and

5:28

protests.

5:30

They called themselves the earth's liberation

5:31

front, the ELF.

5:35

The ELF had decided to take

5:37

action against things they saw as harmful

5:39

to the environment and the only way

5:41

they thought would make people listen. They

5:44

intended to get their way by

5:46

force,

5:47

by fire, they

5:49

had a line to never

5:51

injure anyone,

5:53

and they never did. But

5:55

soon the arsonist would be called not

5:57

environmentalist

5:58

not criminals,

6:00

but terrorists. terrorism is terrorism.

6:03

No

6:03

matter what the motive. A certain

6:05

kind of terrorist,

6:07

eco terrorists. Tonight, the

6:09

FBI calls Alf one of the most dangerous

6:11

domestic terrorism groups around. In

6:13

two thousand five, the deputy assistant

6:16

director of the FBI called them

6:18

the number one domestic terror threat

6:20

in America.

6:23

The terrorist label being

6:26

applied to activists

6:28

who take kind of extreme

6:30

measures to ensure that no one is injured.

6:33

I think it reveals

6:37

the priorities of our government.

6:41

Took

6:41

the tailoring activity like that

6:43

to somebody taking an occupied

6:45

plane and rolling it into an office building.

6:47

It's just outrageous.

6:49

The fires happened nearly twenty years

6:51

ago, but the case

6:53

isn't closed. For over a

6:55

decade, a pair of mug shots lived

6:57

side by side on the FBI's website

7:00

on its list of America's most wanted

7:02

domestic

7:03

terrorists. It's

7:04

a page filled with photos of airplane

7:06

hijackers, bombers, and

7:08

murderers. The FBI is offering a reward

7:11

of up to thousand dollars for information

7:13

leading to the rest of each of these individuals. Two

7:15

people, the government calls eco

7:18

terrorism. Josephine, the sunshine

7:20

overreaker, who has been on the run

7:22

since two thousand and one. Second in New

7:24

Orleans, this is Josephine Reuter. Debeg.

7:27

In the way you look at it, these individuals are

7:29

considered as terrorists.

7:32

For the most part, few

7:33

people from the Earth's liberation front

7:35

have spoken about the destructive act they

7:37

took on behalf of the environment. But

7:40

for the past eighteen months, we've

7:42

been talking to people in this movement. were

7:45

finally ready after all this time

7:47

to weigh up what they did.

7:48

You know, for a longest time and then,

7:50

like, oh, I will never talk about that night.

7:52

It's really unusual. I think everything I, you

7:55

know, myself talk about it. I wanna know

7:57

who they are beyond these mug shots and

7:59

how they ended

7:59

up here.

8:01

Understanding that means fitting together

8:03

pieces of a much bigger jigsaw puzzle.

8:06

Key people, moments, and ideas

8:08

that take us into one of the most pressing

8:11

questions of our time. Last

8:13

year, the temperatures got to a hundred

8:15

and fifteen degrees. A bunch of

8:17

farm

8:17

workers here died. So this is the thing

8:19

right. They didn't die. They were killed.

8:22

How far is too far to go

8:24

to stop the planet burning?

8:26

There's a real biting sense

8:28

at the minute that things are reaching ahead

8:30

all start off non violent. We write letters

8:32

and we petition and we hold signs and

8:35

we do civil disobedience and on

8:38

and on and on and on and then we even get to the

8:40

point where we'll destroy property, but we won't

8:42

hurt people. If

8:44

things don't change, someday we might be doing

8:47

something besides destroying property, and I don't

8:49

wanna be pointing the finger those people and

8:51

saying you're not justified. Because

8:54

we've tried so many things all along

8:56

the way. And if there's

8:58

going to be something that comes

9:00

along that follows in the footsteps of the

9:02

Earth separation could very

9:05

well be worse.

9:09

This is Bernweil

9:11

episode one. The

9:13

elves are watching.

9:16

I'm Leah Sottile.

9:22

I

9:22

wrote my first story on domestic extremism

9:24

in two thousand fourteen, and I've been reporting

9:27

on it in America ever since.

9:28

The majority of that work

9:30

has revolved around violent far right

9:32

figures, militias, bombers,

9:35

guys with guns. In

9:37

America, that has been particularly

9:39

relevant in the last few years. In

9:42

my work, I tried on understand what drives

9:44

people to extremism and what

9:46

society's response to extremist looks

9:48

like. But in recent years,

9:50

people in law enforcement will often say to

9:52

me Don't forget about eco terrorists.

9:55

And every time they have, I've been skeptical.

9:58

I hadn't heard of any real acts

10:00

of eco terrorists since I was a teenager,

10:02

and the Earth's liberation front was

10:04

lighting fires.

10:07

Around the world, as the effects of climate

10:09

change are becoming increasingly pronounced.

10:12

Environmental actions are becoming more

10:14

high profile. more disruptive.

10:17

Central London brought to a standstill

10:19

as protesters simultaneously occupied

10:22

five bridges across the region. No matter how

10:24

long k. We're gonna stop the Doraxes

10:26

pipeline. This is only

10:28

the beginning of the beginning.

10:32

Events of the last week have exposed

10:34

another emerging threat. The so

10:37

called eco crusaders turned criminals

10:39

I refuse point blank to allow

10:42

that kind of amoky on our streets.

10:45

If

10:45

your house is on fire and you want to keep your

10:47

house from burning to the ground, than

10:49

that does cry some level of panic.

10:52

These

10:52

actions aren't at the level of the EDF

10:54

twenty years ago, nowhere near it.

10:56

The federal government is lacking down on

10:58

eco terrorism.

10:59

Perhaps a serious debate to be heard. But

11:01

if you watch some media --

11:02

An eco terrorist organizer -- Or

11:04

listen to certain politicians. -- nominee,

11:07

who

11:07

collaborated with Eco Terrace. Eco

11:09

mobs. Eco Criminals. Eco

11:11

terrorists. Eco terrorists. Our

11:14

threat again right now.

11:17

And the response can be severe. Pipeline

11:20

saboteurs can be prosecuted

11:22

as terrorists. In

11:23

two thousand sixteen, hundreds

11:25

of indigenous protesters block the

11:27

construction of an oil pipeline in the

11:29

United States. and were met with

11:31

police decked out like

11:32

soldiers, sickening

11:35

that they would use

11:37

dogs against peaceful protesters

11:40

and

11:40

MACE people. In the UK, new

11:43

legislation has been brought in and includes

11:45

an offense of intentionally or

11:47

recklessly causing public nuisance.

11:50

which just seems

11:53

to make the protesters more resolute.

11:55

The fact that these types of protests are

11:57

met with such such

11:59

extreme

11:59

measures, demonstrates

12:01

more of a need to do

12:03

them. It

12:04

might be, you know The government says it's

12:06

needed to uphold the right to peaceful

12:08

protests while providing the police with

12:10

the necessary powers to stop

12:13

disruptive protests. from disproportionately

12:16

infringing on the rights and freedoms of

12:18

others. For

12:20

this podcast, I teamed up with

12:22

Georgia Hat,

12:23

a BBC producer based in London.

12:26

In the summer of twenty twenty one, Georgia

12:28

headed to a batch of four hundred year

12:30

old Woodland, up near Staffordshire,

12:33

where months earlier, protesters set

12:35

up what they called

12:36

a protection camp. They

12:38

occupied trees slated to be cut down

12:40

to make way for a high speed rail

12:42

line.

12:43

The methods of these protesters, they're

12:46

nothing like

12:46

the ELFs. They're not torching buildings.

12:49

They're occupying forests using

12:51

their bodies, not fire to

12:53

stop the machines. but twenty

12:56

years on from when Chelsea lit the arson

12:58

on the mountain and veil.

12:59

The questions being asked, the

13:01

grievances aired

13:03

sound very similar.

13:05

States control

13:07

the narrative

13:09

on what is deemed violent. Like,

13:11

they have to send message to the wider

13:13

public that that's not acceptable.

13:16

So by enabling people eco terrorists, they

13:18

must send a message to people that, like,

13:21

don't do this. These activists

13:24

are expressly nonviolent, but

13:26

their definition of violence is very

13:28

different to the authorities. people who

13:30

did massive arts and attacks in the US.

13:32

Like, they they saw themselves in non violent

13:34

because they were like, what is violent violence is causing

13:37

harm to to people, to animals.

13:40

It's destroying a tree

13:42

grabbing diggers that are gonna tear apart in ancient

13:44

woodland. What's more destructive? Doing

13:47

things at can't stop it or touching

13:50

the fucking thing so they can't destroy it.

13:58

This is why George and I wanted to

14:00

make this podcast.

14:02

Right now, it feels like

14:03

humanity is on the cusp of something.

14:06

Like around the world, people are

14:08

asking what the right

14:10

thing to do is. about the planet.

14:12

And at times, morality

14:14

and the law come crashing together.

14:17

And it might feel like we're encountering these

14:19

issues for the first time, but we're

14:21

not. That question, and

14:24

the eco protesters demanding change,

14:27

they have a history Align.

14:29

It goes straight back to Chelsea in her

14:31

burning ski resort

14:33

to when the ELF asks the same

14:35

thing. and thought they had the answer.

14:44

It

14:44

was what they call a communicate, sort

14:47

of a secret message from the underground. It

14:50

sort of announced the earth liberation from

14:52

its existence. Leslie

14:53

Pickering remembers seeing the ELF's

14:55

announcement in the mid nineteen nineties.

14:58

He

14:58

would go on to be a spokesperson

15:00

for the group. Because started off with

15:02

Welcome to the struggle of all species

15:04

to be free. We are the burning

15:06

rage of this dying planet. The war of

15:08

greed ravages the earth and species die

15:10

out every day. The Earth vibration

15:13

front works to speed up the collapse of industry,

15:15

to scare the rich, and undermine the foundations of

15:17

the state, and on and on it goes.

15:19

Impressive that you have this memorized. It was

15:21

enough to cause, like, just countless discussions

15:24

around firesides, you know. Secret

15:26

little hushbox discussions between mean activists,

15:29

what do you think is going to happen? Or, you know, I'm

15:31

a little scared, or I think this is a good idea,

15:33

or I think this is a bad idea.

15:38

What what the air filtration fronted was

15:40

a massive step beyond

15:43

Anything that had tactically been done in the underground

15:45

for the environment prior. Just

15:47

send the message to the world that now there are

15:50

consequences. You know,

15:52

we all know that you're used to living in world where

15:54

you can destroy the environment and pollute whatever

15:56

you want and at best expect to

15:58

find that you can easily afford to pay,

16:01

but those things are over. If

16:03

the government is not gonna do anything to stop you, then

16:06

there is a vibrant angry,

16:09

capable underground that will create a

16:11

consequence that you will feel.

16:16

And so the fire started. They

16:18

played out in the west. The region

16:20

I've spent almost my entire life living

16:22

in.

16:22

The estimates are high estimates

16:25

are a quarter billion dollars in damages over,

16:27

you know, a ten year period. And

16:29

I remember how it freaked people out.

16:32

That so called eco terrorists were

16:34

stalking around in the forest at

16:36

night. When

16:38

one fire would go out, another

16:40

would

16:41

start. But race headquarters and

16:43

government agencies were reduced to ashes,

16:45

and they would be looking sifting through those ashes

16:47

for evidence still when another

16:49

fire would be set you know, the next state

16:51

over. It felt like

16:53

a war. It felt like a war.

17:05

Those warning sides were the radical earth

17:07

liberation front versus the companies

17:09

and corporations that they thought should

17:11

be punished

17:12

for destroying the environment.

17:15

Greg Harvey was working as detective

17:17

at the police department in Eugene, Oregon

17:20

when the first fires happened. When

17:22

we would talk to the victims,

17:24

they'll say they were fully terrorized.

17:28

I mean, correct

17:28

me if I'm wrong, but it seems like with this group,

17:30

there was kind of a concerted

17:32

effort to make sure people didn't

17:34

get hurt. Right? Yes. Yeah. That

17:36

was that as anything

17:38

if you don't truly know what you're

17:41

doing when you're dealing with

17:43

fuel oil. So,

17:45

yeah, no one who's ever hurt. but

17:48

the chances of people getting hurt was

17:51

there.

17:52

Chuck Tillby was a police officer working

17:54

with Greg. they

17:55

were just starting to experience life,

17:57

you know. So they had that

17:59

carefree

17:59

attitude of young people. They

18:02

kind of made them more

18:03

dangerous than closed. What

18:05

is that?

18:06

Well, they just didn't. You know, younger

18:08

people don't understand the ramifications

18:11

of what they do. They

18:13

aid didn't understand it and didn't care.

18:15

As long as it was outrageous and shocked

18:18

the conscience of normal

18:20

society, they were into it.

18:22

and it did shock people and

18:24

scare them.

18:25

Georgia and I spoke with Patty

18:28

Strand, founder of the NIAA,

18:30

the National

18:32

Animal Interest Alliance. It's

18:34

an association of agricultural, scientific,

18:37

and recreational business interests

18:40

that, quote, support responsible

18:42

animal use.

18:44

I met people in farming who had

18:46

lost property,

18:48

had places fire bombed,

18:50

The NIAA compiled a list

18:52

of attacks from animal rights and environmental

18:55

extremists.

18:56

And I will share this with you, but

18:58

this is just let's see.

19:01

If you start looking at this, these are just

19:03

these are criminal advanced. This is

19:06

firebombing. These are research

19:09

break ins, their animal releases, and as

19:11

you can see, there's just one right after the other.

19:13

For Patty, the ELF, their

19:15

terror. Oh, I consider terrorists

19:18

are the people

19:19

who are

19:20

fire bombing buildings destroying

19:22

property. destroying people's

19:25

businesses and individual lives in

19:27

their homes, frightening them,

19:29

scaring them to death, The

19:31

ideology kind of like a cult,

19:34

I think all of the opening things

19:36

that you hear all sound good. you have

19:39

picture of utopia, you have just the ideals

19:41

you're presenting, you don't talk yet about

19:43

the methods that you're going to use in order to

19:45

get it or that people are maybe, you

19:47

know, going to be oppressed in the process. With

19:52

every fire, the headlines swept

19:54

across America. Police they did

19:56

find a sign left at the scene of the

19:58

fires with the initials ELSELS

20:00

is

20:00

taking credit. And soon, the world,

20:03

calling card of earth liberation. People

20:05

were one wondering who would be next. Who's

20:07

collections? A radical environmentalists? What

20:10

would be next? If you're somebody else who's

20:12

destroying the natural environment, maybe

20:14

consider the next target on the ELL.

20:17

This case is massive. Multiple

20:20

crimes, multiple perpetrators, multiple

20:23

messages

20:24

to their victims. Troy

20:25

Rangers station arson, graffiti, including

20:28

the words, earth liberation front, was

20:30

spray painted on several early on in making

20:32

this series, George and I wanted to get

20:34

our heads around the broad strokes of this story.

20:37

Who the EDF were? who they were targeting

20:40

and why? indicate attributing the arson

20:42

to elf,

20:42

calling Superior Lumber a typical

20:45

earthrapper. So

20:46

we printed out a file of court documents

20:48

on the group. The

20:49

communicator A list of the communicators and

20:52

details on the suspected members. one,

20:55

we

20:55

hope to see an escalation in tactics

20:57

against capitalism and

20:58

industry. Choose an earthraper

21:00

and destroy them. You

21:02

know, that one thick things that I could have been.

21:04

Yeah.

21:05

It's a lot. As the communique bragged

21:08

that the event would bring to a screeching halt,

21:10

what countless protests and letter writing

21:12

campaigns could never hundreds and

21:15

hundreds of pages. So

21:17

we got a little distracted. Okay. What's that?

21:19

That is November

21:22

thirtieth nineteen ninety seven. Georgia

21:24

and I have been working on podcasts together

21:26

since early two thousand twenty. but

21:29

we'd never met in person, only

21:31

over a zoom screen. DJ, in

21:33

nineteen ninety seven.

21:34

I was a junior in high school.

21:36

Even so, learned a lot about each other.

21:39

like, in eighth grade, maybe? Seventh.

21:41

We grew up countries and oceans

21:43

apart. And

21:44

yet, We liked a lot of the same music.

21:46

That makes sense. Spicycles number one.

21:47

Did

21:49

you like the spicy? Yeah. because

21:52

did you? Well, except

21:54

the Spice Girls, I guess. I think

21:55

I did. I don't think I did.

21:58

We settled down again.

22:00

Let this be a lesson or greedy multinational corporations

22:02

who don't respect their ecosystems. The

22:04

elves are watching Earth's liberation

22:06

film.

22:08

the elves are

22:09

watching. Members

22:12

of the ELF call themselves the elves.

22:15

They were out there in the night watching

22:18

everything. It

22:20

reminded me a bit of the old fairy tale

22:22

about the elves and the shoemaker.

22:24

about the cobbler who could only get his

22:26

work done with the help of elves who came

22:28

out after dark. By

22:30

morning, there was no trace of them.

22:33

Except in this story, the elves weren't

22:35

making things.

22:37

They were destroying them. defendants. To

22:39

check this out, they have this little buyout of Chelsea.

22:41

Mhmm. As we kept reading,

22:42

we got to a profile the government wrote

22:44

of Chelsea Gurlock. Chelsea

22:46

was the woman who drove to the mountains

22:48

of Colorado to burn down the Vail

22:51

Ski Resort in the middle of the night. The log

22:53

became motivated in an early age to sabotage

22:55

and destroy the property of both the government and

22:57

private visitors. And I'm gonna be honest. When

23:00

George and I read what the government put out about

23:02

her, she sounded

23:03

hardcore, Romania, Chevrolet,

23:06

Jefferson Poplar. In no uncertain

23:08

terms, IN THE

23:09

EYES OF THE GOVERNMENT, CHELSEA IS

23:11

A TERRORISM. Reporter: FEDERAL CRIMES OF

23:13

TERRORISM.

23:17

Chelsea

23:17

hasn't really spoken to the media before,

23:20

not the whole

23:20

story.

23:21

It took some effort, but Georgia and I

23:23

tracked her down. And finally, after

23:26

some light British prodding,

23:27

she agreed to meet up with

23:29

me. We

23:30

needed somewhere quiet. Georgia's

23:32

in London, and she's left

23:34

me

23:34

in charge.

23:35

So of course We ended

23:37

up in a cemetery. Cemetery. I'm pretty

23:39

sure

23:39

she's here, so I'm gonna go over there.

23:41

It's a sweltering summer day when I meet

23:43

her. We're at a graveyard in part

23:45

of Portland, Oregon. And when I

23:47

pull up, I recognize her right away.

23:49

Chelsea? Hey. How are you?

23:52

I'm Leah. Chelsea Gerlock is in

23:54

her mid forties now. She looks like

23:56

anyone else trying to keep cool in heat.

23:59

She has short

23:59

cropped hair and a big

24:01

smile.

24:02

Chelsea tells me she just recently quit

24:04

her job. I like living out of my car. I like And

24:06

she's actually living in her car right now while

24:09

she writes a book about her life. trip

24:11

across the country. Oh my god. She's friendly.

24:13

Always lovely and easy to talk

24:15

to. Not really at all what I

24:17

expected. soon. Get on We decide

24:19

to go sit on the grass where it's quiet. some

24:22

chairs. Chelsea tells

24:24

me that for her, the forest wasn't a

24:26

distant place she fell in love with. was

24:28

her backyard. So I don't

24:30

ever remember.

24:33

Bing, suddenly now I'm in love with nature.

24:35

It really was just in my bones.

24:38

What

24:38

I do remember clearly is a moment

24:41

of recognizing

24:43

that

24:44

that the forest ecosystem that

24:47

I had grown up in was

24:50

deeply in

24:50

trouble. Mhmm. I

24:52

was fifteen and I had a summer

24:55

job that took crews of kids

24:57

out in the woods. We

24:59

learned to identify the trees and

25:02

camped out. I remember

25:04

number, we were camping

25:06

up on this ridge and had

25:09

this vast

25:12

view the horizon of

25:15

National Forest Land, and

25:17

it was just a checkerboard

25:19

of clear cuts. You

25:22

could very clearly see the

25:24

green of the forest and the

25:26

brown of where the forest had

25:28

been just cleared away. and

25:30

the

25:32

the scale

25:33

to see the scale of

25:37

damage that had been done,

25:39

made it just

25:41

visceral.

25:42

on

25:45

remember just crying at

25:47

the at the impact of it,

25:49

the weight of it.

25:54

Chelsea's deep connection to the wilderness

25:56

is part of why activism appealed to

25:59

her. This

25:59

was personal. When

26:01

she talks about clear cuts, it's almost

26:03

like you can see a physical pain pass

26:05

across her face. Pretty

26:07

quickly, Chelsea knew what she wanted to

26:09

do. She

26:10

tells me the story of the first big

26:12

direct action protest she went to.

26:15

She was sixteen

26:15

years old. I had gotten my drivers

26:17

license and gotten my dad's

26:19

old Subaru and decided

26:21

that I was gonna drive out to Central Idaho

26:24

to a forest camp pan. Deep

26:26

in Idaho, a major project

26:28

had been proposed to remove massive

26:30

swaths of forest to make way

26:33

for over a hundred miles of new

26:35

roads. It's

26:36

the largest contiguous road less

26:38

area in the Lower forty eight states or at least

26:40

it was in nineteen ninety too

26:43

when that campaign began. Functionally

26:45

intact wilderness areas that

26:48

are important

26:49

for large

26:51

roaming predators like gray wolves.

26:53

So

26:53

that's why it drew the attention of

26:55

local environmentalists. who

26:58

were filing appeals through

27:00

the administrative process, trying

27:02

to get changes made to

27:05

the timber harvest plan, And

27:07

then filing lawsuits when the

27:10

Forest Service decided to go ahead with those

27:12

plans, those lawsuits being

27:14

unsuccessful. Mhmm. And then

27:16

kind of the final last stand being,

27:18

let's call in the Calvary, bring

27:21

people who are willing to put their bodies on the line

27:23

-- Mhmm. -- to physically stop the

27:25

road building. And I was all

27:28

in. I thought these people are really

27:30

doing they understand the magnitude

27:33

of what's happening and are

27:35

making an impact.

27:37

You know, I'm in sixteen, I'm in high

27:39

school, how am I gonna make a difference?

27:41

You know, how am I gonna save the forest

27:43

that I care so much about? Mhmm. I

27:45

can't file a loss suit. I can't

27:48

vote. I don't have any money, but

27:50

I can come, I can be present, and

27:53

I thought, well, that's a thing I can do. That

27:56

was just the beginning. Chelsea

27:58

became involved in several environmental

27:59

protests and campaigns.

28:02

But after enough time passed, She

28:04

started to get a sinking feeling that they

28:06

weren't adding

28:07

up to anything. I

28:09

hi

28:10

had tried to work through

28:13

the system in various ways. Going

28:16

door to door and talking to people about local

28:18

environmental issues and trying

28:20

to get

28:21

support through the grassroots organizing

28:24

and went on to work for the Sierra Club working

28:27

through administrative appeals and

28:29

the legal

28:29

process and felt like

28:31

those efforts were largely unsuccessful.

28:35

I wanted to

28:37

give my life to doing what I could.

28:40

Extinction is forever we used to say.

28:42

And we were seeing

28:44

the last bits of

28:46

intact

28:47

forest ecosystems fall

28:50

to the chain fos.

28:54

and as Chelsea was experiencing disillusionment,

28:57

Leslie Pickering, former spokesperson

28:59

for the ELF, was going through something

29:02

very different. We

29:03

were in the middle of the most intense

29:06

period representing, you know,

29:08

the most radical group on the left at the time

29:10

that was causing tens of millions of dollars

29:12

in damages over and over again.

29:15

This ELF ship was the

29:17

most exciting thing I had ever seen. I was

29:19

not interested in seeing it go down. I

29:21

wanted it to ride as far and as fast

29:23

and as high as it possibly could.

29:26

And I felt optimistic

29:29

for maybe the first time

29:31

about the environmental situation. And I and

29:33

I wasn't alone. A lot of people were

29:37

You know their ears perked up.

29:44

And Chelsea, she was one of

29:46

those people whose ears perked up at the

29:48

idea of taking things one step

29:50

further. She knew people in

29:52

the ELF. including a guy named

29:54

Avalon who she'd met back when she

29:56

was sixteen at the protest in Idaho.

29:59

So I had kind of been on

30:02

standby for maybe

30:04

a year -- Okay. -- of wanting

30:08

to get involved with the third liberation front

30:11

cell and waiting to be called

30:13

essentially. Mhmm. Avalon came

30:15

and said, well, it's time.

30:20

which brings us back to that moment on the

30:22

mountain.

30:22

The fire at Vail.

30:25

How did you choose these

30:27

targets?

30:29

our purpose was direct

30:32

action to disrupt environmental

30:35

destruction.

30:35

in

30:37

There's no shortage of targets.

30:38

Knowing that corporations

30:41

only speak the language of the bottom line,

30:43

we wanted to cause them

30:46

as much financial damage as possible If

30:49

the project

30:49

became too expensive, that could

30:52

turn the tide. Mhmm. So

30:54

I would say the main criteria actually

30:56

for choosing a target was, could

30:59

we do it without hurting anyone? Because

31:02

that was the only rule that the earth liberation

31:04

front had was not causing

31:06

any harm to any living being.

31:10

And then could we actually do it and get

31:12

away with was an

31:12

important consideration as well.

31:16

For a long time, they were getting

31:19

away with it, but

31:20

that wouldn't last.

31:22

Chelsea would face penalties far

31:25

worse than she could have ever imagined. Reprocussions

31:28

she's still working through now.

31:31

I can name and point to many

31:34

negative effects that came about from

31:36

my actions.

31:37

It's much more difficult to name

31:40

and be able to state with confidence

31:44

any positive impact

31:45

from our actions. Does

31:47

that mean there weren't any?

31:51

I don't know.

31:57

We're

31:57

gonna get into all that. in the series.

31:59

Take you to Canada now and the town which recorded

32:01

the country's highest ever temperature this

32:04

week.

32:04

Loving and landslides in and India

32:06

have

32:06

now left more than fifty people a day. The threat

32:08

of climate change was apparent to the

32:10

members of the ELF twenty years

32:12

ago. Some of the worst of that they've ever, which list

32:14

to the effects of climate change means it

32:16

rains when it shouldn't, and it doesn't rain and

32:18

it should. And people's crops fail. And

32:20

in the two decades since the EDF lit

32:23

their fires, the back battlefield looks

32:25

different. Record

32:25

breaking heat waves in Northwest India

32:28

and Pakistan are hundred times

32:30

more likely because of climate Europe

32:32

is in the grip of a fierce heat wave.

32:35

Dozens

32:35

have died of heat

32:36

stroke across India, but

32:38

millions

32:38

of workers cannot afford

32:40

to stop a pound. We've been telling about unprecedented

32:43

heatwave

32:43

the sweet possible shortage of electricity

32:45

to keep the air conditioners going. This

32:47

isn't a one off. It's some

32:50

think that we're going to have to get

32:52

used to. Fast parts of the world

32:54

have literally gone up in

32:56

flames. Thousands of people

32:58

in Western United States are spending

33:00

the weekend in the evacuation centers as

33:02

wildfires continue to burn across

33:04

the beach.

33:05

We are not making

33:07

a be here. This is not Hollywood.

33:10

It is Turkey, and Turkey

33:11

is burning here some Huge

33:13

plumes of smoke rose above London

33:15

as grass fires engulfed home on

33:17

the outskirts of the capital. A

33:19

critical warning that

33:22

climate change is not something

33:24

to be ignored. Just this past

33:26

March, an intergovernmental body

33:28

of scientific experts released a

33:30

report that said, the climate change

33:32

situation

33:33

is far worse than we thought.

33:35

For as long as our emissions continue

33:37

to warm the planet, and at the moment, temperatures

33:40

are rising by a quarter of a degree every

33:42

ten years. There is no more time for

33:44

bureaucracy

33:45

time is running out. We have

33:48

been saying that for decades,

33:49

and it's starting to become

33:53

pretty irrefutable that we're seeing

33:56

those catastrophic impacts. The

33:58

United Nations Secretary

33:59

General called the report a, quote, damning

34:02

indictment of failed climate

34:04

leadership. And still, we

34:07

haven't been able to turn

34:10

the boat around. Now a new study

34:12

says that catastrophic climate change

34:14

outcomes, including human extinction, are

34:17

not being taken seriously enough. That's

34:19

pretty frightening.

34:26

When George and I first

34:28

started this series, we wanted to investigate

34:30

how a group who'd never killed or injured

34:32

anyone would be identified as

34:34

the number one domestic terror threat in

34:36

America. We

34:38

wanted to know how their actions have impacted

34:40

activism and the clampdown

34:43

on activism to this day

34:45

I think that often

34:48

we don't really

34:50

know the impacts of our actions, particularly

34:53

impacts of an action

34:55

like this that rippled

34:58

far beyond the scope of

35:00

what we could possibly be aware of.

35:02

And

35:02

we wanted to tell it

35:04

now at this moment. When

35:06

questions like how far is too

35:08

far to go to save the planet and

35:10

what's the right way

35:11

to bring about change are being asked

35:13

again, a

35:14

time the stakes feel higher than

35:16

ever.

35:19

Over

35:19

a decade ago, as the case

35:21

of the Earth's liberation

35:22

front was reaching its zenith in

35:24

America. Two eco terrorists

35:27

slipped right through the fingers of the

35:29

FBI.

35:31

And for over a decade, their mugshot

35:33

stared out from the FBI's website

35:36

on its list of America's most

35:38

wanted domestic terrorists. It's

35:40

a page filled with photos of

35:42

airplane hijackers, bombers,

35:45

and murderers.

35:47

One of the photos is of a tall,

35:49

lanky Syrian American engineer

35:52

from Seattle. He's

35:53

wearing a red shirt and is

35:55

kind of a hipster looking guy. with a

35:57

light shadowy beard.

35:59

His name,

36:01

Joseph Mahmoud DiBay.

36:05

The other photo is of a young white woman

36:08

with thick eyebrows and piercing

36:10

brown eyes. She

36:11

has long brown hair. across

36:14

her back is a large tattoo, a

36:16

bird with its wings

36:18

outstretched soaring.

36:20

Her name Is Josephine

36:22

Sunshine Overacre? Or

36:25

just Sunshine? How do

36:27

you think that

36:29

Overacre and DB,

36:31

how do you think that they would

36:34

be viewed in these

36:35

circles today? 0II

36:38

think they would be heroes. They

36:41

would be the they would be the leaders,

36:43

not of your mainstream or not,

36:45

but certainly of the extreme. If

36:47

they want to. I wanna see the full

36:50

story. It's it'd be unbelievable.

36:55

And then something happened that would

36:57

change the direction of this podcast.

37:02

One hot summer day, twelve

37:04

years after those two people disappeared. I

37:07

was going about my work when an email

37:09

hit my inbox, and it stopped

37:11

me in my tracks. It was

37:13

a press release from the US attorney's

37:16

office. It read, quote,

37:19

Oregon

37:19

domestic terrorism suspect

37:21

in custody

37:22

after twelve years on the run.

37:25

they'd caught Joseph DeBay.

37:30

On January eighth two thousand

37:32

twenty one, the middle of the

37:34

pandemic, and I'm stuck at home.

37:36

I'm staring at my laptop screen.

37:38

Joseph Debey, this man, the government,

37:40

has wanted for so long is

37:43

appearing in court from a jail in Portland

37:45

via Zoom link. The

37:47

government says Joseph eBay's

37:49

a domestic terrorist. But

37:52

online, his supporters describe him as

37:54

a political prisoner.

37:56

A here row. They

37:57

posted on Twitter with the hashtag

37:59

free

37:59

Joseph d day.

38:02

He's shackled to the floor with chains,

38:04

has a mask over his face.

38:06

And

38:06

he looks like Hannibal Lecter sitting

38:08

there. Every

38:09

time he coughed his chains shook.

38:12

He

38:12

was pleading not guilty to everything

38:14

the government accused him of. Multiple

38:17

charges, including arson and

38:19

conspiracy to commit arson, as

38:21

part of this eco terrorist movement,

38:24

charges that could see him face a sentence

38:26

of more than thirty years.

38:30

He'd hired one of the most intense defense

38:32

attorneys I've ever known. His

38:35

name is Matthew Schindler. He goes

38:37

by Matt. And let's just say

38:39

he's a rather upfront guy. Hi,

38:41

Matt. Yeah. Right after

38:43

the hearing,

38:44

Georgia and I were on the phone with Matt. smoke

38:46

here in London. Yeah. Yeah.

38:49

How's it going? It's going great. It's

38:51

kind of an unusual thing

38:53

to to have the opportunity to

38:55

be paid by the government to show up and

38:57

just fuck with it. Well,

38:58

I think Georgia could feel you seething

39:01

all the way in London. And I told her when you got

39:03

on that

39:03

No. My wife told me when she saw me

39:05

come out and that I

39:08

had that look on my face. that

39:10

look like just don't fuck with me.

39:12

And I said, well, you know, if you're

39:14

gonna stand in a room and

39:16

call the United States of America

39:18

out,

39:19

That takes strength. British

39:21

lawyer is unlicensed. No.

39:23

No. It's the

39:25

most powerful law enforcement apparatus

39:27

in the history of human civilization.

39:29

So this first call was Matt. He goes

39:31

on like

39:31

this. It's the greatest culture of incarceration

39:34

that humanity has ever known. and on.

39:36

I'm here to stand up and say, fuck you. And

39:39

I'm I grew up with a silver spoon.

39:41

I was a Jewish doctor's kid. I came,

39:43

mine education was paid for.

39:45

So I'm exactly the kind of

39:47

person that should be standing here now.

39:49

And on. I'm here because I wanna be.

39:52

because I think this is fascinating, and I think

39:54

Joe is a fascinating person.

39:56

Matt tells us his interest in defending

39:58

Joseph De Bey,

39:59

It's about that label he's been given,

40:02

terrorists. Joe challenges people's

40:04

perceptions

40:06

of who they would label a

40:08

terrorist? Yes. Yeah. And this

40:10

moral question over what the right thing

40:12

to do is in the face of a pressing

40:14

climate crisis, which is

40:16

the reason we're interested

40:17

too. And I think that this movement

40:20

in trying to understand it, but

40:22

assess, I think, its impact.

40:25

Because in many respects, I think the government

40:27

claim great credit for sort of destroying

40:30

the momentum of this. But

40:32

when I started as lawyer at Lewis and

40:34

Clark Law school in nineteen ninety two, I

40:36

thought I would be an environmental lawyer because it was

40:38

the only thing I could think of that I gave a tiny

40:40

shit about. That at the turn of the twentieth

40:42

century, there were forty million acres of

40:44

old growth forest. In nineteen ninety

40:47

two, when I moved here, there were four million left.

40:49

There's no question that

40:51

that radical activism. They

40:54

did they accomplished something.

40:56

There's a difference between going into

40:58

a cafe or a bus stop.

41:00

putting a bomb in there and blowing up

41:02

fifty people and burning down

41:05

AAA shit hole that deserved

41:07

to be burned down.

41:12

In this story, the line between victim

41:14

and perpetrator isn't always clear.

41:16

and people are going to take away

41:18

very different things on what they hear.

41:20

At times, you're gonna hear George and I struggling

41:23

with it too.

41:24

But the question of where you sit as

41:26

the story unfolds isn't a question

41:28

of the past. It's

41:29

something that's becoming increasingly

41:32

urgent right now. When

41:34

the planet is burning, what

41:35

are you supposed to do? Play by

41:37

the rules or take direct action?

41:40

And if you take action,

41:42

how far is too far to go?

41:45

Answering it will take us into

41:47

radical activist communities past

41:49

and present

41:49

on both sides of the Atlantic.

41:52

Living on camps will wear

41:54

you down and break you in

41:56

in a lot of ways, rebuild you as a totally

41:59

different person. You're gonna

41:59

hear from people who've been in prison. Charges

42:02

that I was facing carried on mandatory minimum

42:04

in a sentence of thirty five years left

42:06

broken. up to I

42:08

think it was, like, two hundred and thirty five

42:11

years or something like that. But also

42:13

in bolden. This is a train about

42:15

to hit a wall. Do I still wanna

42:17

be in this? The answer was yes. Would

42:20

you answer differently now? No. I don't

42:22

think so. You're going to hear from people

42:24

who suffer We tried to destroy

42:26

our lives. That's what they accomplished in

42:28

my view. Why are they picking on

42:30

us? You'll meet people who've

42:32

made it their lives work to see the remaining

42:35

eco terrorist caught. Would you say

42:37

she's like your white whale in a way? Yeah.

42:40

That's probably a good comparison. and those

42:42

who spent their lives

42:44

avoiding the authorities. I was

42:46

just a tramp my whole life is tramping around.

42:48

It's a murky world where secrets

42:50

are only just now coming to light.

42:54

No worries.

42:58

We had a multiple STREES

43:00

COMING TOGETHER TRYING TO GET

43:02

THIS LABLE TERRORISM. Reporter: PEOPLE

43:04

WE NEVER THOUGHT WOULD SPEAK TO US HAVE.

43:06

THAT'S NOT A GUY THAT YOU MIGHT WANT TO BE INTERESTED

43:08

IN. YEAH, THEY SAEM And

43:11

at the heart of this, are questions

43:13

still being

43:14

asked today? People are just

43:16

more overwhelmed now that no

43:18

one knows what to do. what's

43:20

the most effective way to bring

43:22

about change? Maybe there are more people

43:24

who really want to do whatever

43:26

is necessary to make change. I don't know what

43:28

that is either. people who argue

43:30

for women's suffrage. They were condemned

43:32

at the time, but course, it's just obvious

43:34

now in retrospect that they had right on their

43:37

side. How far is too far

43:39

to go to stop the planet burning?

43:40

It's

43:45

a big question. And

43:48

it starts here with this call

43:50

to Joseph Debei's attorneys.

43:51

He wanted to change things.

43:53

He still wants to change things. That's what

43:55

motivates them.

43:56

And a request. Do you

43:58

think we

43:59

could talk to him? I

44:03

mean,

44:03

have you handed this by him? Okay.

44:05

I

44:05

see. Yeah.

44:07

You're very well positioned to do this.

44:09

because I think you understand

44:12

an extremist mindset well.

44:15

Joe is a fascinating picture of extremism.

44:18

I mean, it'll be a while, but we probably won't

44:20

put it out until next year. But That's

44:22

why we Well, good. I mean, that makes sense

44:26

to me. Then I can come on and crawl about winning

44:28

all this it and being right. Matt

44:31

is confident,

44:31

overconfident, maybe,

44:34

that if he can get this case to go to trial,

44:37

his client, a man who,

44:39

for more than a decade, has sat on the list

44:41

of the FBI's most wanted domestic

44:43

terrorists.

44:44

will walk free, and

44:46

we'll be with him through all of it as

44:48

it unfolds right now.

44:51

Next time, How

44:54

many people who have been on the FBI's most

44:56

wanted this? I've ever sat

44:58

down for a podcast with the fucking

45:00

BBC. I

45:02

think about like how many people have been

45:04

murdered,

45:05

how many people have been brutally

45:08

tortured, how

45:09

many children have been molested, I

45:12

mean, women have been raped.

45:15

And how did I get on the most

45:17

wanted people in the entire mid

45:20

country of the United States.

45:36

Bern Wild is presented by

45:38

me, Leah Sottile. Co

45:40

written by me and the producer,

45:43

who's Georgia cat.

45:45

Fact

45:45

checking by Rob

45:46

Byrne. We

45:49

love the music in this series. The

45:51

theme is by Echo Collective composed

45:54

performed and produced by Neil Leiter

45:56

and Margaret Hermont, and

45:59

recorded mixed

45:59

and produced by Fabian Lasser,

46:04

The brilliant composer and sound designer

46:06

fill channel has taken that theme

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and along with new compositions He's

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created the sound for this series, including

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46:22

Podcast script recorded and engineered

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commissioning executive is Dylan

46:36

Haskins, The editor

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is Philip

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Sellars.

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eleven of the missing crypto queen

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and the more news of doctor Ruggen.