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0:18

listening to the Monaco Daily first broadcast

0:20

on the twenty third of September two thousand and

0:22

twenty two on Monaco twenty four. The

0:24

UK's new Chancellor sets out

0:26

his stall, market appear

0:28

unconvinced. Italy contemplates

0:31

selecting a far right populist while

0:33

Brazil considers unelecting one

0:36

and what is being worn in

0:38

Milan this fashion week. I'm

0:40

Andrew Mueller. The monocle daily starts now.

0:54

Hello, and welcome to the monocle daily coming

0:56

to you from our studios here at Madori House in

0:58

London by Andrew Mueller. It's Friday,

1:00

so it's our weekly in house daily.

1:02

And among the monocle staff not able

1:04

to evade participation even despite

1:07

fleeing as far as Milan and São

1:09

Paulo, Arciara Ramella Fernando

1:11

Augusta Bishop echo and Natalie Theodose.

1:13

They'll look at today's big stories and we'll

1:15

hear from Phil Gradsky about his

1:17

latest film chronicling the Richard

1:19

recent history of Afghanistan. Stay

1:22

tuned. All that and more coming up right here

1:24

on the monocle daily.

1:31

This is the monocle daily. I'm Andrew

1:33

Mueller. The early reviews are

1:35

discouraging. Following today's unveiling

1:38

of a sort of mini budget by the

1:40

UK's recent the installed chancellor of the

1:42

Excheca Quasi Quoting, sterling

1:44

plunged to a thirty seven year low against

1:46

the US dollar and the thick end of two

1:48

percent came off UK share indexes.

1:51

The headline measure of Quoting's announcement

1:53

was forty five billion quid in tax

1:55

cuts including a cut in the basic

1:57

rate paid by most wage earners, but

1:59

also very much including the abolition

2:02

of the top rate of income tax levered

2:04

against those already clearing hundred

2:06

and fifty thousand pounds a year, i. e.

2:08

those who were probably struggling

2:10

along alright. I'm joined with more on

2:12

this by the business journalist, Tyghe. And

2:14

right Tyghe, first of all, the reactions

2:17

of the markets, are they actually

2:19

as demanding as they look?

2:20

Hi, Andrew. It's it's hard to

2:23

escape that conclusion. Investors

2:26

vote with their pound euros

2:28

dollars, and they've been taking

2:30

them off the table today. Unless not forget, these

2:32

are people for whom other people's money is actually

2:34

their job to manage their

2:37

responsibility. investors

2:39

like predictability and orthodoxy.

2:42

Now some elements of the day today's

2:44

package like the national insurance reduction

2:46

had been expected, but others

2:49

came out of the blue, such as eliminating

2:51

the top rate of tax for top earners.

2:53

And while taxes is

2:56

conservative fiscal orthodoxy.

2:58

It generally, investors like

3:00

us, fiscal conservative like

3:02

us. So too though is fiscal

3:05

responsibility. There's a mantra

3:07

that you don't borrow money to cut taxes,

3:09

and that is what is going to happen here.

3:12

And there are critics even within,

3:14

of course, the conservative party

3:16

that has chosen party, including her

3:18

former contender for the leadership, the former

3:20

chancellor, Rishi Sunak, who

3:22

just a month or so ago, was saying this

3:25

cutting taxes would be fueling

3:27

inflation at a time. when

3:29

the, you know, the the the objective is

3:31

to rein it in.

3:33

And he has not been saying much

3:35

today. Well, let's try at least

3:37

to consider this from the government's

3:40

point of view. From the perspective

3:42

of quasi granting and, of course, Liz

3:44

Truss What is the big idea

3:46

here? What are they trying to accomplish? Well,

3:49

they come from a school that believes

3:52

that Taxes and regulation are the main

3:54

things that are holding the economy

3:56

back. And and many people would

3:58

agree that taxes and

3:59

regulation do restrain growth.

4:02

But you should only consider cutting them,

4:04

of course, if you have a sensible alternative.

4:06

Another way to balance the

4:08

books or perhaps more sensible

4:11

regulations. Trust

4:13

and Cartagena are working on

4:15

the premise that growth can

4:17

compensate for all the other

4:19

problems The rising ties

4:21

that lifts lifts all boats making

4:23

people richer, rich people

4:25

richer, will make every all richer.

4:27

They call it, as we know, trickle

4:29

down economics. It was

4:32

nineteen eighties, veganized,

4:34

and saturated thinking thinking

4:36

that has long since gone out

4:39

a fashion. That Trust said in recent

4:41

days that she was willing to

4:43

make unpopular decisions to

4:45

bring about growth And these

4:47

decisions will be, I think,

4:49

very unpopular with the majority

4:51

here, particularly those who won't benefit

4:54

as much as the ultra rich. Well,

4:56

is it a purely rigidly

4:58

as they would see a pragmatic economic

5:01

idea, this one, especially of cutting

5:03

or abolishing that top tax rate? Or

5:05

is there an ideological underpinning

5:08

to it that they just they're

5:10

they're dogmatically committed to this

5:12

because they think that rich people should

5:14

just have more of their money because as

5:16

you correctly point out, while it will

5:18

obviously be popular with people who do

5:20

make more than a hundred and fifty grand a year,

5:22

there's only about six hundred thousand of

5:24

them.

5:25

Yeah. It is undoubtedly old

5:27

fashioned, conservative, make the

5:29

rich richer, give the the wealth

5:32

creators, the the space in which

5:34

to create more wealth, and that will

5:36

benefit everyone. That's the the

5:38

school of thought. But of course, conservatism

5:40

or the UK conservative party.

5:42

And indeed, the American Republican

5:45

party has, in some degree,

5:47

shifted in in recent years where there

5:49

is more of a focus on on

5:51

lower earners and giving them a break and giving

5:53

them a fair slice of the pie

5:55

even if it does cut cuts. economic

5:58

growth overall. But yes, this is

6:00

going back to very, very basic

6:02

conservative, as you put it, ideologically

6:05

driven economic thinking,

6:07

which is that growth must trump absolutely

6:10

everything. Even if, of course, as we all

6:12

know, many of the levers which can

6:14

bring about growth are

6:16

unpopular with conservative voters

6:19

here in the UK, specifically immigration

6:22

and building houses in greenfields. So

6:25

is there then even any self interested

6:28

political logic to this from Trump a

6:30

truss rather than fraudulent slip their

6:32

truss and quotation's point of view? Because

6:35

Part of the mandate they have to govern, of

6:37

course, was won by Boris Johnson

6:39

in two thousand and nineteen, winning over

6:41

largely working class labor seats in

6:43

the north of England, which had never

6:46

even thought about voting Tory in their

6:48

lives, And yet the attack lines

6:50

for labor here right themselves, don't

6:52

they? People clearing a million quid

6:54

a year have just been given a fifty

6:56

thousand pound a year pay rise basically.

6:58

and that is considerably more than most people

7:00

who vote in this country even make.

7:03

That is certainly the case. Evidently,

7:06

the some people in control of Downing Street

7:08

right now who think that it does make

7:10

political and economic logic.

7:12

Although there are many murmurs

7:14

within the party, who

7:16

believe it's electoral suicide. They're giving

7:18

up those working class votes, their conservatives,

7:21

their conservatives fought so hard to

7:23

steal away from labor. at

7:25

the last election. And of course, if

7:27

the markets are any barometer investor

7:31

opinion, clearly, they don't see the

7:33

logic to us as well. There

7:35

are many who think that they are

7:37

handing labor the next election on

7:39

a plate. That said, there are some even within the

7:41

conservative party who think that

7:43

just given the the overall political

7:46

cycle that after twelve years in power

7:48

and after pursuing many policies

7:50

would seem to be, you know, they

7:53

would think, great in the minds of the voters, but,

7:55

like, the difficult to implement in

7:57

practice. That's there is coming

7:59

a natural end to this

8:01

era of conservative leadership in this

8:03

country and perhaps Liz

8:05

Truss and the people

8:07

she surrounded herself with and indeed the

8:10

far right think tanks

8:12

who seem to be influencing so much

8:14

of this government's policy see

8:16

a window of opportunity over the next

8:18

two or so years between now and the next election

8:20

to get some of their ideas over the line.

8:22

I mean, she can, in theory,

8:25

as long as she can remain prime

8:27

minister, the con the conservative party

8:29

is entitled to hold power until

8:32

January two thousand and twenty five.

8:35

Is the the most

8:37

straightforward way to look at this then

8:39

just to perceive Truss and

8:41

Quoting, stacking all their

8:43

chip on red, giving the wheel a spin and

8:45

hoping they get lucky. I think

8:47

that is a fair assessment,

8:49

a fair analysis. But

8:51

keep in mind that's Liz Truss upon

8:54

becoming a leader of the conservative

8:56

party, and therefore, prime

8:58

minister of the UK was one of the

9:00

most unpop cater candidates to have

9:02

managed to wiggle her way

9:04

into that role. She commanded

9:06

less than half the support of the

9:08

parliamentary party and managed

9:10

to get into office by simply

9:12

winning over the majority of support from

9:14

that small fraction

9:16

of the electrodes

9:18

overall who happened to be paid up

9:20

members of the of the

9:22

Conservative Party.

9:23

Doug Enright, thank you very much

9:25

for joining us. you're listening to The Daily

9:27

on Monocle twenty four.

9:36

You are listening to The Daily on

9:38

monocle twenty four. The next week and a

9:40

half will see strangely complementary

9:43

elections in two very different countries.

9:45

On October second, Brazil will decide

9:47

whether it wishes to continue being governed

9:49

by far right populist blowhards.

9:51

On September twenty fifth, Italy

9:53

will decide whether it quiteancies

9:55

a go of such an arrangement. Possibly

9:59

tellingly polls suggest that the country which

10:01

is currently run by Bellic coast hyper

10:03

conservatives is rather wearying of

10:05

it, while the country that isn't

10:07

seems determined to learn the hard

10:09

way. Well, I'm joined by one monarchical

10:11

staffer from each of those countries in

10:13

question in the studio by monocle

10:15

magazine's culture editor Kiara Amela

10:17

and on the line from Sayo Paolo by

10:19

Monocle twenty four's producer and senior correspondent,

10:21

Fernando Augusto Pacheco. And Kiara,

10:24

first of all, let's let's look at Italy and let's

10:26

look at what the poll at what the polls are

10:28

saying now. despite the fact that

10:30

Italian politics is is

10:32

Italian politics. Italian polls

10:34

actually have a fairly solid record of

10:36

calling it more or less. Right? So

10:38

Is there actually any way at all that Georgia

10:40

Maloney of the brothers of Italy is

10:42

not Italy's next prime minister? It's

10:44

very unlikely she won't be.

10:46

is my is my double negative way

10:48

to go around this issue. No.

10:51

I as you say, polls are considered to

10:53

be quite reliable. We have to say though

10:55

that because of the

10:57

way that the campaigns are run, and

10:59

there's

10:59

always a bit of a of a

11:02

of a break between the the moments

11:04

when that Canada Sarat campaign, but

11:06

also a break between the last official

11:08

poll, and then the subsequent polls are

11:10

already released internally with the with the

11:12

parties themselves. the last official

11:14

polls we have date back to about thirteen

11:16

September. Mhmm. And they say

11:18

that Fratella Dittalia, is

11:20

looking at getting around twenty seven percent maybe a

11:22

bit less percent of the vote

11:24

and that the, generally speaking,

11:26

the center right coalition is probably

11:28

gonna be riding around forty five

11:30

to fifty percent. So it's very likely

11:32

they will win the only

11:35

thing that could change,

11:37

I guess, is seeing

11:39

how well the Movement five stars, the

11:41

populist kind of non ideological

11:43

movement is going to do in the

11:45

south of the country. It's an

11:47

area that's traditionally been

11:49

less easy to break into follow the

11:51

league, the La Liga, which

11:53

used to be much more focused on the northern

11:55

side of the of the country. And

11:57

also from brothers of Italy is

11:59

is a It's a

12:00

fascist, neo fascists, I should

12:02

say, party or at least a very far right

12:04

party that's very

12:06

entrenched and it's kind of romanness

12:08

in certain respects, it doesn't necessarily speak

12:11

quite as well to the south of the country.

12:14

Whilst AAAA

12:16

politician like Giuseppe Conte are are

12:18

former prime minister, actually, does have

12:21

quite a lot of of appeal in the south of the

12:23

country. He's been doing lots of

12:25

campaigning down the It's very possible that

12:27

moving five stars will make gains

12:29

there. Mhmm. And also thanks

12:31

to a policy that

12:33

they claim as their own, which

12:35

was the giving of benefits

12:37

or employment

12:38

benefits more largely around the country. They

12:41

claim it as a policy the day passed during

12:43

their government. It's something that's very well loved

12:45

in the south because that's where unemployment

12:47

levels are higher compared to the north.

12:49

So we can expect they can make

12:51

gains there. And because of the way

12:53

that the that the electoral seats are

12:55

decided because of the electoral law

12:57

that could cause a bit of a

12:59

stalemate in the senate, but that's I think

13:01

at this point about it.

13:02

So, I mean, as you've delineated, the

13:05

the brothers of Italy are usually

13:07

pitched as far right. They do have their

13:09

roots in extremely unsavory

13:12

hardcore ultra right circles. But

13:15

what can we anticipate about how they

13:17

might actually govern? Like, what

13:19

would they actually do that is different

13:21

to what is being done now?

13:23

Well, they have had to calm down

13:25

a lot, or at least, Jordan

13:27

Maloney has had to reframe her

13:29

public

13:29

owner quite a lot. I mean, is this like

13:32

a a lapen style --

13:34

Yeah. -- mainstream? To

13:35

give you an idea of the level of

13:37

the change that has happened, Three years

13:39

ago, brothers of Italy, Fratelli

13:41

Dalia was polling at about four

13:43

to five percent, then now polling at twenty

13:45

seven percent. So imagine Also,

13:47

the the extremism of what

13:49

a party that's pulling about four to five

13:51

percent can say and do and represent in a

13:53

country. And now that fringe

13:56

is polling at twenty seven percent.

13:58

It's astonishing. It really has changed

13:59

completely the discourse in in

14:02

the country. And what can

14:04

we expect? We can expect another

14:06

crackdown on immigration. Probably

14:08

a district at least a

14:10

disregard for LGBTQ plus

14:13

rights and

14:15

a kind of, I guess, traditionalization of

14:17

the discourse around family. We

14:20

can expect a crackdown on

14:22

that kind of welfare system

14:24

of benefits for unemployment, which

14:27

is considered by Dr. Meline

14:29

to be a, I guess, encouragement

14:31

of further unemployment and those are too

14:33

lazy to work. So I think just the

14:35

radicalization of

14:36

those of those policies all

14:38

around. Fernando, I will bring you in

14:40

at this point and there is another seamless

14:43

link between Brazil's

14:45

and Italy's elections,

14:47

and I'll ask you to elaborate on that

14:49

by explaining how and why

14:51

a former Brazilian formula

14:53

one world champion is

14:55

somehow running for office in Italy.

14:58

Well, he is indeed, and I have to

15:00

say, he's going for far right

15:02

party, which is, you

15:04

know, a bit of a shame. So

15:06

as Escara will know as well. So if you need to,

15:08

it's one of the few countries in the world, where

15:10

the Italian community, you know, they can

15:12

actually vote and they have positions at the Senate

15:14

and at Congress. So for

15:16

Latin America, there used to be more

15:18

actually, but I believe for this election,

15:20

there'll be one position for the

15:22

Senate and two for the Congress. We

15:24

have a current senator in need is

15:26

Fabi Porte from the center

15:28

left. But the interesting thing here

15:30

is, right, it's all it always happened.

15:32

But we have high profile

15:35

candidates. Amerstel Fitipaldi. I mean,

15:37

he's a all Brazilians know,

15:39

he's a former former

15:41

Formula One champion. we also

15:43

have on the other side, André

15:45

Matarazu. He is a former

15:47

ambassador. He's been administering governments here

15:49

in Brazil. a very respected figure

15:51

from the center left as well. So there's

15:53

actually a lot of talk about the Italian

15:55

elections in Brazil. not only

15:58

because of that Brazilian component,

16:00

but also because of the

16:02

far right element because we do

16:04

have a president that can be

16:06

said that is far right. Even though

16:09

there are different countries, different political

16:11

systems, there are differences. indeed.

16:13

But, yeah, it's an election that Brazil's definitely

16:15

keeping an eye on. Fernando,

16:17

we started out this segment talking to

16:19

Kiara about the polling for

16:21

Italy's election. So let's talk about the

16:23

polling for Brazil's election as

16:25

well. As we have discussed

16:27

before during this campaign, it doesn't look

16:29

too good. for Jaya

16:31

Bolsonaro. Is that is that

16:33

changing at all? Is he gaining any of

16:35

that ground back? He is

16:38

not gaining any ground, but he's not

16:40

losing votes as well. Lula,

16:42

in the latest public, he has forty

16:44

seven percent of the vote. So there is

16:46

a chance that he could win in the first

16:48

round. It's too close to court at the moment, but

16:50

I think that's what his campaign is doing

16:52

because there's the fear also in

16:54

Brazil that if it goes to the second

16:56

round, they'll actually become there'll be dirty

16:58

tricks. You know, there'll be more problematic because,

17:00

as you know, Bostonardo, you know,

17:03

Bostonardo and democracy sometimes that

17:05

they're two very different words.

17:07

And I think if Lulu wins in the first round,

17:09

it'd be very hard for both Bernard to

17:11

say that the election was a fraud. because

17:13

then you'll be saying that the election of twenty seven

17:16

governors, you know, more than five

17:18

hundred MPs, senators as

17:20

though it's a lie. It's going to be

17:22

very hard for him. I mean, he does

17:24

have a large part in Congress,

17:26

but, I mean, it is very small. It's about

17:28

ten percent or so

17:30

of of the Congress. Acura, one of the

17:32

reasons that Italy's election is

17:34

being regarded with some concern

17:36

around Europe is what it might

17:38

mean for Europe's so

17:40

far reasonably unified response

17:42

to Russia's invasion

17:44

of Ukraine. Now the the

17:46

Italian wing the Italian far right

17:48

certainly has an in glorious

17:50

history of putin

17:52

worship, which has flared up again

17:54

this week when Italian former Italian

17:56

prime minister Silvio Berlowski, happy

17:58

as always to help, has

18:00

bought somewhat into the

18:03

narrative that Russia was somehow

18:05

elbowed or nudged or tricked

18:07

into staging this

18:10

confrontation by NATO.

18:12

mal fiacences. We were talking earlier about

18:14

how George Maloney has tried to polish

18:16

up the image of the Italian far

18:18

right a bit. How are they going

18:20

to style out the putin

18:23

worshiping problem. And are they actually

18:25

going to be much help in the current

18:27

conflict? So

18:28

this is one of the

18:31

points on which the center right coalition

18:33

is actually divided. Mhmm. Because

18:36

George Maloney has been

18:38

fairly straightforwardly

18:41

pro Ukraine and

18:44

and pro alignment with the rest of the The problem

18:46

is with Salvignan with the Eurooscopy as you

18:48

say, but Eurooscopy earlier this week

18:50

made these really, really unfortunate

18:52

and quite shameful comments.

18:54

where he basically bought into

18:57

Pukin's propaganda. And

18:59

he's been accused across

19:01

the spectrum, and he's been asked to

19:03

to

19:04

apologize. And he said that it wasn't actually

19:07

his opinions. He was

19:07

repeating other people's opinions,

19:11

which also doesn't help, but I

19:12

don't think. But bless him. When you was

19:14

he, bless him. I shouldn't really say that. But when you

19:16

watched that in a sufficiently patronizing

19:18

tone

19:18

And when you watched that video though, you

19:20

can tell how much

19:22

he's aged really. I mean, we just must not Most

19:24

of him. We we must

19:26

not forget that he really is a

19:28

bit of a relic of his former self.

19:30

and his party is pulling

19:31

much much lower than it

19:33

ever really did at his height.

19:36

So I, you know, I don't think the bonus gonna be

19:38

really shaping the future of this

19:40

coalition. In this

19:41

in this poll, it's it's looking

19:43

like six point seven percent.

19:47

Salvini

19:47

is more problematic because he's

19:49

more boisterous. And he hasn't gone as

19:51

far as kind of supporting Christian's propaganda,

19:53

but he has recently

19:55

advocated for

19:58

dropping sanctions against

19:58

Russia, saying

19:59

that he would say that not because

20:02

he supports the invasion, but because he thinks

20:04

that the sanctions don't work and they actually,

20:06

you know, harm Italy more

20:08

than a new Russia. which you

20:10

could argue is yet another bit of kind of

20:12

putin esque propaganda. So it's going to

20:14

be difficult, and I think that the

20:18

Salvini was very, very upset by

20:20

Ursula van der van der Lyon's comments about her

20:23

concerns for the election in Italy.

20:25

She was asked what she thought and she

20:28

said that whilst Europe would obviously

20:30

work with any democratically elected

20:33

government, they had tools to

20:36

do something if things got difficult, which is

20:39

sufficiently vague. And and but

20:41

the Lagardt took great offense

20:43

at this, saying that they were scamongering,

20:45

they

20:45

were you know, impeding people from voting

20:47

with their

20:48

hearts, and so they went and did a sit in

20:50

front of the European. Institutions

20:54

in Italy asking for

20:56

her apologies about this. So I

20:58

think that he's

21:00

going to still be

21:02

a very trouble making part of this bullish

21:04

and moving forward. Fernando, just to bring

21:07

you in finally, if

21:09

those polls that you were discussing

21:11

hold up and if Lula does

21:13

knock Bolsonaro over, especially if

21:15

he does so in the first round. Can we

21:18

say there's anything there that

21:20

other center left social democrats around the

21:22

world who are up against far right

21:24

populist can learn from it? Or is it

21:26

just a question of unfortunately

21:28

allowing the far right pop

21:30

pilots to govern for a bit and make it abundantly

21:32

clear to everybody that they're really not terrifically

21:34

good at it. Unfortunately,

21:37

Andrew, I have to say is the latter because

21:40

twenty eighteen was so hard.

21:42

I mean, the workers party or the centrist

21:44

parties, they did not

21:46

manage because the country was angry. when I

21:48

couldn't manage because the country was

21:50

angry. When a country is

21:52

angry, it's very hard to

21:54

show reasoning. to them. This

21:56

election is very different. Of

21:58

course, Lula has an advantage. Of course, you

22:00

know, I'm not saying, Rosanabe does

22:02

have a very solid vote

22:04

which is about thirty to thirty five percent.

22:06

But people looking at the Brazilian economy,

22:08

you know, it didn't do

22:10

very well. We had this experience.

22:13

and it was not entirely successful. And

22:15

I think that's why Lula

22:18

has the advantage in twenty

22:20

eighteen people were angry. And I

22:22

think perhaps that's what's happening in Italy. It is

22:24

very difficult. Perhaps we're in less

22:26

senior. I think it's also interesting

22:28

to look at the economy and other

22:30

elements because I remember in

22:32

Brazil, do. We also have the coach awards. I think the

22:34

coach awards, it kind of angers me

22:36

in a way because for some reason at the

22:38

far right parties, they always manage to

22:41

win this speech. You know, this

22:43

expression woke snowflake. We don't have the one

22:45

in Brazil. We have one that is nimimimy

22:48

which is the far right people they like you're

22:50

full of mini me, which means you're

22:52

complaining about everything. For some

22:54

reason, it sticks to people's mind. But

22:56

I think this year, Lulu's campaign has been

22:58

very smart. Of course, that might be

23:00

what they call mini me.

23:03

But he focused a lot on

23:05

economy. You know, food is

23:07

expensive and they're both sonaro. He

23:09

went really for things that really

23:11

matter for average Brazilians

23:13

who live who are living in poverty because

23:15

poverty increased in Brazil. So it was a little

23:17

bit of an economic faster as well.

23:19

So perhaps that's the lesson I

23:21

could give. And just a final

23:23

thought, Kiara, and expanding

23:25

on that from Fernando, angry. Do you

23:27

think that's an accurate characterization of

23:30

Italy as it prepares to vote this

23:32

weekend? I don't

23:33

know. I think that

23:36

It are, I guess,

23:39

weary in certain respects of

23:41

a political class that has

23:45

that feels very bureaucratic,

23:47

that feels quite separate from

23:49

the the population. There is a

23:51

sense that there is system of power that

23:53

is completely entrenched and impenetrable. And

23:56

that's

23:56

why all these populist parties have

23:58

always made headways. And there is some truth

24:00

to that, you know. it this image of the kind

24:02

of bureaucratic machine is very true in

24:04

Italy. And Jardan Maloney has on

24:06

her side that her party was

24:08

basically the only one that was in a position in the

24:10

mega massive kind of coalition

24:13

that was behind Draghi. So and that,

24:15

you know, everywhere internationally

24:17

viewed that government as

24:19

fairly stable, and I'm sure that it wasn't

24:21

international eyes, but it was a big

24:23

pastiche of things. and Italians seeing it

24:25

from the inside could see that there was

24:27

a lot of, you know, comprising

24:30

of it ideologies and that

24:32

never looks good from the inside and that's

24:34

why an outsider like Georgian Maloney at this point has

24:36

the upper hand.

24:37

Kiara Ramello and Fernando Agusto

24:40

Pacheco. Thank you both very much for joining

24:42

us. You're listening to The Daily.

24:50

You're listening to the

24:52

Daily on monocle twenty four and to

24:55

Milan now where the latest iteration

24:57

of Milan Fashion Week is underway.

25:00

among those gathered there for it is

25:02

monocles fashion editor, Nathalie

25:04

Theodosie. And Nathalie, first of

25:06

all, we are now accustomed to

25:08

talking about fashion weeks and trade fairs

25:10

and festivals being back up

25:12

to normal speed. Is there a

25:14

general business as usual feeling

25:16

about Milan this week?

25:18

Hi, Andrew. Yes. There is definitely

25:20

a business as usual feeling, and

25:22

I think there's even more of

25:24

an influx of fashion

25:27

industry professionals to Milan this season

25:29

just because everyone had the craving to

25:31

to return. Any taxi

25:34

that I've been to has been

25:37

complaining that, like, you

25:39

know, the fashion people have quadrupled

25:41

the traffic in Milan this week.

25:44

So definitely a lot of buzz going on and and

25:46

a lot of people here for the fashion

25:48

week.

25:48

So is there

25:50

a a general theme or mood discernible

25:53

on the runways once you actually get

25:55

into the shows. There

25:57

has

25:57

been, yes, and And

25:59

this season, the mood is

25:59

a little bit more somber

26:02

and toned down. We've been

26:04

sitting in a lot of dark

26:06

rooms and old black runways and the

26:08

clothes as well have been toned

26:10

down a lot. We're seeing a lot

26:12

of blacks and grays and slightly

26:17

safer, more familiar pieces like

26:19

suits and trench coats and

26:21

and knit wear you know,

26:23

when when the world was reopening, the narrative in fashion

26:26

was, let's celebrate with

26:28

with a lot of optimistic, colorful

26:31

clothing. But I think the

26:33

designers are very aware, either consciously or

26:36

subconsciously of everything that's going on

26:38

in the world, politically, economically.

26:40

So you know,

26:42

things have been toned down quite a

26:44

lot and we're returning to a

26:46

quieter sort of luxury and

26:49

timeless, classic clothing that I

26:51

guess will make smarter investments as

26:53

well for people in the in the few in

26:55

the coming months.

26:56

Well, I I know that

26:58

that we're seeing certainly new beginnings

27:01

for two of Milan's great family

27:03

houses, Missoni and

27:05

Etro. What have you seen from them? Yeah.

27:07

Missoni and Etrra made their

27:10

debut today this

27:12

morning, and it's the first time

27:14

that the families stepped

27:16

back and gave the rings to new

27:18

creative directors. I think

27:20

Missoni got mixed reviews

27:22

this morning. there was

27:24

lacking that sort of

27:26

warmth and familiarity that

27:28

we were used to when Angela Missoni

27:30

was designing the collections, but

27:33

ETRA, which has now been taken

27:35

over by a young Italian designer

27:37

called Market de Vincen. So,

27:39

was great and received

27:42

a really positive response

27:45

from from the audience. I

27:47

think he makes Atros

27:49

history and signature of

27:52

patterns and its Bohemian

27:54

spirit with a bit more of a youthful spirit.

27:56

So I think at surrender, these new

27:58

creative director will will keep growing and

28:00

will keep hearing about it. So

28:02

those aside, is there any

28:05

exhibition or any house whose

28:07

new stuff is especially anticipated

28:09

this week.

28:10

Yes. I think Gucci was the

28:13

golden ticket today in Milan. I've

28:15

actually just come out of the

28:17

show. And it was really, really

28:19

interesting. There was

28:21

two shows happening at the same time, even though

28:23

we weren't aware of it at first.

28:25

we were sitting in a

28:28

room separated by a partition with

28:30

another part of of

28:32

the space and towards the end

28:34

the partition was lifted and we realized that there

28:37

was a whole part of the

28:39

audience sitting in front of

28:41

us and the models

28:43

walking on either side were

28:45

twins. So quite theatrical.

28:48

And once a politician

28:50

was lifted, the

28:52

twins got together and wrote the

28:54

finale. So that was really

28:56

interesting and it was

28:58

a attaching tribute to the to

29:00

the creative director Alessandro Michaela's

29:02

mother and his twin sister.

29:04

And was the Gucci show you

29:06

know, did it did it reflect that

29:09

kind of somber retreat into

29:11

classicism you were discussing? In

29:13

a

29:13

way,

29:14

yes, actually, again, there

29:17

was very ominous

29:19

music, a dark room, like

29:21

what has been happening in every other

29:24

runway. And there was a

29:26

lot of more classic tailoring and

29:28

toned down colors.

29:31

But Gucci being Gucci, there was

29:33

also some louder evening wear,

29:35

and that's what Alessandro Bickell had as I

29:37

think he manages to mix it all

29:39

together. But, yes, it was a lot more

29:41

classic than it usually is.

29:43

reflecting what's going on the

29:45

past week. And

29:47

what else are you most looking forward to

29:49

while you're still there?

29:51

There's another

29:54

full day of shows with

29:56

a lot of the of the big names

29:59

still

29:59

to show, including Bottega

30:02

Veneta tomorrow. Moncler is

30:04

also going to be celebrating seventy

30:07

years in business and hosting a

30:10

really big show at the

30:12

Piazza del duomo and

30:14

inviting the public to participate. So

30:16

I think that will be quite interesting well

30:18

because fashion shows are really becoming

30:21

real spectacles and

30:23

the public can participate in

30:25

them, so I'm looking forward to that tomorrow

30:28

night. Natalie

30:28

Theodicy, thank you for

30:30

joining us. And finally, on today's

30:32

daily from the fall of the Taliban

30:35

until the recapture of

30:37

Afghanistan last summer, the lives of ordinary

30:39

people in Afghanistan have had to

30:41

respond and adapt. to the political turmoil

30:43

around them. A new film, my

30:45

childhood, my country, twenty years in

30:47

Afghanistan, attempts to unquote the

30:49

experience of one individual during

30:51

this time. by following the story of

30:53

Mia Hussein from Boyhood to

30:55

adult life. Monica Sophie

30:57

monahan comes tells us more.

31:01

Gallaban

31:09

is

31:09

now out of business. We

31:12

will honor those commitments of

31:15

rebuilding Afghanistan. Phil

31:20

Grebsky is a British filmmaker.

31:22

He believes he was the first foreign filmmaker

31:25

to travel into Afghanistan after the fall of the

31:27

Taliban in two thousand and one. Once

31:29

there, he headed to Bamiran and met those

31:31

who'd been internally displaced

31:33

to the and are now living in its surrounding

31:35

caves. In the harshness of this setting,

31:37

he meets a particularly charismatic

31:39

young boy. Mir Hussein, who

31:41

stares down his camera lens. Over

31:43

the

31:43

next 234 days, when

31:45

I'm wandering around, Bamir, and getting to

31:48

know people, He was always there with

31:50

his three or four friends, always

31:52

smiling at a very cute little hat,

31:54

very cute face. And

31:56

the third night, I asked some of the men if

31:58

they would take me into the

32:01

caves where there's this network

32:03

of carved steps and

32:05

kind of cubby holes and it's it's an exciting

32:07

place to go into. A thousand

32:09

years ago would have been full of Buddhist

32:12

monks and the men said, oh, we can't.

32:14

We're too exhausted. The kids will take

32:16

you. And in that moment, when Mia and his

32:18

friends took me on a little

32:20

tour, which again some of this

32:22

footage is in the film. I suddenly

32:24

thought, and I'd say it's the best decision I've

32:26

made in two hundred and fifty films.

32:28

I thought, he's the story.

32:30

Because over the next year. I

32:33

went three times every period of a

32:35

year. He is active.

32:37

He is going to be going to school.

32:39

He is gonna get up to mischief and he

32:41

did add more, but also it

32:43

will project an audience to

32:45

think about the future of Afghanistan,

32:47

not just about the past, but

32:49

about what's going to happen is

32:51

our intervention. How well are

32:53

we handling it? How much is it actually

32:55

helping Africans? How much is

32:57

his life? being improved or not.

32:59

And, you know, as I said, it was probably

33:01

the best decision I've made as a filmmaker.

33:04

The film,

33:05

my childhood, my country, twenty

33:07

years in Afghanistan, follows Maya

33:09

for twenty years. doing

33:12

so, it becomes an incredible document

33:14

of his life and Afghanistan as

33:16

the

33:16

country changes around him.

33:18

Phil didn't plan to film for so

33:20

long. But Izmir grows up, getting a

33:22

job, marrying, having children. As

33:24

his story

33:25

continues to be written,

33:27

Phil alongside his Afghan co director, Schwab Sherifi,

33:30

continued to film it. We decided to

33:32

follow

33:32

his life for ten years,

33:34

and couldn't have anticipated all

33:36

the scrapes and all the things that

33:38

happened to him. You know, we were

33:40

there filming the one day

33:43

that some foreign troops came through the village.

33:45

They even foreign troops visited

33:47

that village once, and they couldn't

33:49

get out quick enough. The

33:51

village has a a mountain behind

33:53

it. People used to graze their goats

33:55

on the mountain, grow

33:58

wheat, then they discovered it was a

34:00

mountain of coal and it became like

34:02

a wild, wild west of gold rush.

34:04

Yeah. So lots of things I could

34:06

not have predicted happened to

34:08

changed Mia's life enormously. The film combines

34:10

huge changes

34:11

to the Afghan way of life, such

34:13

as the arrival of

34:16

foreign troops, with the universal moments of teenage

34:18

life. Mia's attempts to use a mobile

34:20

phone to speak with girls in Kaboo is

34:22

one example.

34:25

Eventually, he becomes a cameraman

34:27

himself and films the joyful excitement of

34:29

football matches

34:30

alongside other events

34:32

like frequent suicide bombs taking place around him.

34:34

He begins to shoot moments which become part

34:36

of the film in which he's already playing

34:39

the main character. For Fill, this film holds Mears Stories

34:41

as well as lessons for all of us about

34:44

filmmaking and journalism focused

34:46

on Afghanistan.

34:48

There is really no such thing

34:49

as the fly on the wall that has

34:51

no impact. You have to be

34:53

very responsible about

34:56

how you behave with that in this case, how you

34:58

behave with that family, with that individual, both

35:01

while you're filming and

35:04

after you've finished, you know, before you even start, you have

35:06

to think that your responsibility to

35:08

those people will not end when

35:11

you complete the film. So

35:13

there's lots to be learned by watching this film. And the

35:16

great thing about Mears is he's such an

35:18

extraordinarily entertaining,

35:20

enthusiastic, optimistic,

35:23

kinda companion over these twenty years. He's

35:25

never once said, I don't wanna be filmed anymore.

35:27

And I gave him, you know, it's his you

35:29

hear his words throughout the film. I'm right

35:31

at the end, I said, what's your conclusion? I didn't tell him what to

35:33

say. I was rather surprised that he had such

35:35

an optimistic view

35:38

of things. Basically, he

35:40

says, you know, there's no point being pessimistic. I

35:42

can't go through life being pessimistic. I have

35:44

to be optimistic. Then the

35:46

Taliban returned. I'm still

35:48

amazed by

35:49

his resilience. That was

35:52

Phil

35:52

Gabski, co producer and

35:55

co director of my childhood, my country, twenty

35:57

years in Afghanistan in conversation with

36:00

monocles, Sophie monohannes. That's all for this

36:02

edition of The Daily. Thanks to our guests

36:04

today, Tiger, Kia Ramella Fernando Augusta Pacheco and Nathalie

36:06

Theodosie. Today's show was produced by Lilian Fawcett

36:08

and research by Emily Sands. A sound

36:10

engineer was Calum McLean with

36:12

editing assistance from David Stevens. I'm

36:14

Andrew Mueller here in London. The Daily is back at

36:16

the same time on Monday the other

36:18

side of tomorrow morning's grand final,

36:20

Khan McCatt.