0:00

listening to the Monocle daily first broadcast

0:02

on the fifth of December two thousand and twenty

0:04

two on monocle twenty four. Haiti

0:06

descends yet further into chaos,

0:08

why do some crises attract less

0:10

attention than others? The UK's

0:12

opposition leaders suggest that perhaps the

0:14

country's citizens could start electing

0:17

their upper house. And the UK's rival,

0:19

but equally baffling word

0:21

of the year polls, I'm Andrew Mueller,

0:23

the monocle daily starts now.

0:36

Hello, and welcome to the Monocle Daily coming

0:39

due from our studios here at Midori House in

0:41

London. My Andrew Mueller. My guest, Terry

0:43

Steersney Monday Lokoc will discuss

0:45

all the day's big stories Monocle twenty

0:47

four's Washington DC correspondent, Chris

0:50

Chormack. will report on another

0:52

example of Ukraine using culture

0:54

as a diplomatic lever. Stay

0:56

tuned, all that, and more coming up right here

0:58

on the monocle Daily. This

1:05

is Monocle daily. I'm Andrew Mueller, and

1:07

I'm joined today by the political journalist and

1:09

author Terry Monday by Samark

1:11

Lokoc, fellow of the Center for Global Development

1:14

and former head of Humanitarian Affairs

1:16

at the UN, hello to you both. Hi.

1:19

Hello to you, especially so Mark, you have

1:21

spoken to us many times on our various

1:23

programs, but this is your first appearance.

1:26

on the daily that being the case as we

1:28

often do when somebody is breaking their

1:30

daily duck, we invite them to introduce

1:32

themselves two air listeners. Basically, who are

1:34

you how did you get here? Thank

1:36

you, Andrew. So I've worked for the last forty

1:39

years on international development humanitarian issues.

1:41

I was a civil servant in Britain for

1:43

more than thirty years, end ending up

1:46

as the permanent secretary of the much

1:49

lamented debate for international development,

1:51

rest in peace. And then Antonio Guterres

1:53

asked me to go and work for him to be the head of

1:55

humanitarian affairs at the UN, which

1:57

I did twenty seventeen to twenty

1:59

twenty one. I published a book earlier in the

2:01

year, which you were kind enough to

2:03

invite me to talk about on humanitarian

2:06

affairs how to make humanitarian system better

2:08

You're allowed to mention the title. It's nearly

2:10

Christmas. It's called relief chief, the

2:12

manifesto for saving life in

2:14

dire times. And and, Terry,

2:16

at that point, idols of yours,

2:18

I believe, are still freely available with

2:20

you. If people are wondering with what

2:22

will stop that stop.

2:23

If you know if you if you got getting your book token

2:25

for Christmas, two political

2:27

thrillers. One's called acts of a mission the

2:29

other one is called conflicts of interest. The second

2:32

one has an an ungood level title there

2:34

these days, which

2:34

was a bad choice. Well,

2:37

we will start the show proper with Haiti,

2:39

a country so intractably associated

2:41

in the popular imagination with chaos and

2:43

disaster that things have to be quite startlingly

2:46

bad for it to climb into the headlines.

2:48

But Haiti has indeed climbed into the headlines

2:51

because things are quite startlingly bad.

2:53

Its capital, Port au Prince, has become

2:55

a battlefield contested by rival

2:57

gangs. Dozens of people have been

2:59

killed in recent weeks, and the UN's high

3:01

commissioner for Monday rights Volcker TUR. has

3:04

warned that the country is on the verge

3:06

of an abyss. Verge might

3:08

be an optimistic assessment. A few

3:10

weeks ago, Haiti's acting prime minister

3:12

Arielle Enri, all but pleaded for

3:14

foreign military intervention. Mark,

3:17

first of all, this is a country you know

3:19

reasonably well. You were last there a

3:21

few years ago. It is about three years.

3:24

I think I'm right in saying since the last

3:27

UN mission packed up should another

3:29

one be sent. I

3:31

think that Haiti is gonna need to

3:33

find a way to do better in solving its

3:35

own problems. He's been in continuous crisis

3:37

really. It is a country vulnerable to storms

3:39

and earthquakes, but the events

3:41

in Haiti now are not like most humanitarian

3:44

problems we see around the world, but there's some big

3:46

shock like a war out

3:48

breaking out or a storm

3:50

or a new disease hates problems

3:53

are continuing, and outsiders

3:55

are not gonna be the solution to

3:57

them, I'm afraid. There hasn't been much

3:59

just to follow that much indication of

4:01

insiders being the solution to the problems

4:04

though. I mean, we were I'm

4:06

I'm passing uranium sites offers my own

4:08

here because we were discussing this just before

4:11

the show that that the island of

4:13

his banyola of which Haiti is rough half

4:15

is it's kind of a parable of the difference

4:17

between good and bad government and and

4:19

what it makes in that Haiti

4:21

on the left hand side has the

4:23

same problems as the Dominican Republic on

4:25

the right hand side, but one is more or less

4:27

competently governed and the other one is barely governed

4:29

at all. Yes. Dominican

4:32

Republic used to be a

4:34

much poorer country. It's been better governed in

4:36

recent decades now as a thriving tourist

4:38

industry. Haiti's basket case,

4:40

unfortunately. There's a very strong parallel

4:42

with The Korean peninsula, South

4:44

Korea, used to be a poor country, now one of the

4:46

world's richest countries. North Korea,

4:48

the opposite story as we all know. And the

4:51

fundamental thing is Outsideers

4:53

can't and we know

4:55

from experiments of this in the Middle

4:57

East and elsewhere can't change

4:59

that. track very well. It

5:01

really has to be done by

5:03

Haitians themselves, I think. And

5:05

Terry, those interventions to which

5:07

Mark refers. Do you think they have made

5:09

a difference to how other

5:11

countries now respond to challenges

5:13

of this sort because there have been serial

5:16

interventions in Haiti over the years

5:18

of one kind of mandate or another.

5:20

But post those ones that Mark mentions,

5:22

Iraq and Afghanistan, do you think the world

5:24

has become significantly wary

5:26

of them? Yes. I

5:27

definitely think there's much more of a reluctance

5:30

to get involved in any kind of

5:32

humanitarian intervention, which we did

5:34

see much more, say, in

5:36

in the nineteen nineties. And it's

5:38

interesting that you say somewhat

5:40

that you just don't think that that is

5:42

a viable option, you know,

5:45

for Haiti. But the question is then,

5:47

how do you rebuild

5:49

what is sort of tool intents and purposes

5:51

a failed state? Monday, if the government

5:53

is not able to to feed its

5:55

people if the president's being assassinated,

5:57

if the gangs are essentially in

5:59

charge

5:59

on the streets and it is so

6:01

dangerous. that, you know, international

6:03

missions and visitors can can scarcely

6:05

go there. Then how do you start

6:07

to turn that situation around

6:10

without, you know, huge outside

6:12

intervention? And how do you start to create,

6:14

you know, functioning institutions? You

6:16

know, because there was an idea that you could go

6:18

in and do this and rebuild something, but

6:20

that doesn't seem to be a situation anymore. So

6:22

it just seems to leave the coal country in

6:24

alert. I

6:25

think there are a few things you can do and

6:27

should do. So humanitarian

6:29

agencies can get help to

6:31

people food and cash to buy things.

6:34

You can work to keep

6:36

going the nascent medical services, and you

6:38

should do those kinds of things. What I think we should

6:40

be wary of is the idea that you

6:42

could send a foreign peacekeeping force in

6:44

or a UMP keeping force in,

6:47

and that would cause the Haitians to

6:50

organize themselves politically in a different way. I

6:52

think the track record of that way of thinking

6:54

is too discredited to have another

6:56

go at it in Haiti. And just to follow

6:58

that up, though, Marc, Ariel

7:01

Enri, when he made his plea

7:03

for military intervention, I think

7:05

I'm right in recalling was talking specifically

7:07

about the idea of the United States and or

7:09

Canada acting on their own.

7:11

And I think implicit there was that they would

7:13

arrive with a perhaps slightly punchier

7:15

mandate than the blue helmets might.

7:17

I I know no two crises are

7:19

the same and you can't necessarily transfer

7:21

one template to another, and I

7:23

know this is going back a fair way. But could

7:25

something like, for example, the

7:27

Australian led intervention in Tmall,

7:29

let's say, in nineteen ninety nine serve

7:31

as something of an example because they're

7:34

similar in to the extent

7:36

that Tmall last day was being overrun

7:38

by Maurydian gangs who had the run of the place.

7:40

and who had no opposition, but

7:42

who interestingly seen significantly

7:45

less interested in making a fuss

7:47

when actual professionals turned up.

7:49

that can sometimes work. What the

7:51

British did in Sierra Leone twenty

7:53

years ago is of a similar model.

7:55

But I think it depends on the size

7:58

of the problem the extent to which

8:00

there is something you can work with in terms

8:02

of political leadership that wants to do the

8:04

right things and some basic in institutions. I think

8:06

Haiti has been pulled down a long way.

8:08

And until the Haitians themselves find a

8:10

way to get their act together a little bit more,

8:13

the US and Canadians, I suspect, will be

8:15

quite reluctant. So I I think

8:17

what the world if it's smart

8:19

is gonna do is provide assistance

8:22

to stop huge numbers of

8:24

people dying unnecessarily. Work

8:26

behind the scenes to say to all

8:28

the, what passes for the political

8:30

elite in eighty. Look, you have to work

8:32

out how you're gonna collaborate a bit

8:34

better together in your own interests

8:36

and in the interests of your whole

8:38

population because we don't see any other way

8:40

forward for you. Terry, there is

8:42

an interesting media angle to

8:44

this story as well, which is

8:46

that if you wanted and

8:48

it's a it's a terrible thing to find yourself

8:50

saying about any country, but it's true. If you

8:52

wanted to do a big story about

8:55

chaos disaster violence in Haiti. You

8:57

can do that pretty much anytime

8:59

you like. What is

9:01

it about some conflicts, some crises

9:04

where they do just fade out of

9:06

the global consciousness as

9:08

Hades has until this more recent

9:10

uptick in gang violence.

9:11

I think it is partly that sense

9:13

that this is an endemic conflict and that

9:15

there is nothing you can do about it. Only people will

9:17

look back at Haiti and say, well, look, there's been

9:19

decades of dictatorship. Obviously, there are have

9:21

been the huge natural disasters like

9:23

the earthquake, which are that kind of thing

9:25

that provokes interest. And

9:28

there is yeah. There's not sort of, recruiter

9:30

sort of, journalistic terms of a new peg

9:32

to hang it on. Also, it's just

9:34

incredibly dangerous to report from there. I mean, I

9:36

think, you know, just reading some of the

9:38

art calls, people like Olive Garden who have been there and obviously

9:40

are incredibly brave and Monday to

9:42

war zones. You know,

9:44

generally, but the, you know, the danger of being

9:46

kidnapped off the street. danger of being

9:48

killed in in gang violence and having to go around

9:50

as a journalist in the kind of armored car

9:52

that you would go around in a war

9:54

zone. Most people haven't got the

9:56

resources or the the courage

9:58

to to go and do that. And so it is,

10:00

you know, obviously, there's, you know, there's emigrees.

10:02

There's lots of hations who have left the country who

10:04

might have ways of telling you what's going

10:06

on there. But it is just an extremely

10:08

difficult story to cover.

10:09

Which which does prompt

10:11

a question going back to what you were saying, Mark, about

10:14

the idea that, you know, this this

10:16

is down to what passes for

10:18

local political elites to sort this

10:20

out with the assistance of NGOs

10:22

that are working there. If if

10:24

journalists have to take

10:26

those kind of precautions Monday eight

10:29

journalists have been killed so far this year in

10:31

Haiti. Doesn't everybody

10:33

else? And at some point, doesn't

10:35

whatever will there is in terms of

10:37

establishing a political discourse,

10:39

providing aid, doesn't it need

10:41

to be escorted by people with

10:43

guns? Well, aid agencies

10:45

are very, very reluctant to

10:47

be put in that position for very good

10:49

reasons. And most of the

10:51

professional aid agencies have got extremely

10:53

good at negotiating with

10:55

all the parts he's on the ground and navigating

10:57

their way around those kind of pressures. The

10:59

only circumstances where that doesn't

11:01

work for them is when they're dealing with

11:03

a huge state military capability,

11:05

which is why there's very few NGOs in

11:07

Eastern Ukraine right now because the Russians

11:09

won't tolerate it. or they're

11:11

dealing with highly organized extremely

11:14

brutal terrorist groups witness. It

11:16

was impossible for humanitarian

11:18

agencies to work in Iraq and

11:20

Syria when large swathes of the country were

11:22

controlled by Islamic state. But otherwise,

11:24

aid agencies have got very good at

11:26

negotiating and navigating their way

11:28

through. I do think that

11:31

the world will be smart to facilitate

11:33

as much journalistic coverage of

11:35

these underreported disasters as

11:37

possible because the the reason

11:39

they don't get attended to is because they

11:41

don't get the attention of politicians,

11:44

and that's because journalists can't draw

11:46

them to their attention. one

11:48

of the smart things NGOs do is

11:50

facilitating access from journalists, for journalists, and

11:52

protecting journalists, and getting the story reported

11:54

because then it gets put on the politician's

11:57

agenda. Just a final thought on that

11:59

before we move on though, Terry. Is

12:01

there any though reason to

12:03

believe that added awareness

12:05

to use the the Vogue ish phrase

12:07

does end up making any difference because

12:09

this is something I I notice happening

12:12

especially in the social media realm, all of

12:14

a sudden somebody decide with a

12:16

certain amount of influence and a certain amount of

12:18

following gets terrifically excited about something

12:20

which may well have been going on for

12:22

years, but it becomes the catch of the day. We

12:24

saw this with the Lord's Resistance Army

12:26

in Uganda, the kidnappings in Nigeria.

12:29

everybody gets tremendously excited

12:31

about it for about a month and holds

12:33

up pictures of, you know,

12:35

hashtags on pieces of paper beneath

12:37

their expression looking incredibly concerned, but I'm

12:39

not convinced that anything much actually

12:41

happens as a result.

12:42

No. I mean, yeah, that is I think we've

12:44

got a slightly more sophisticated under

12:47

standing of these kinds of, you know, the interplay between

12:50

governments, wars, natural disasters, and so forth. And we

12:52

did say, like, in the in the eighties with

12:54

band aid and things like that. We have moved on

12:56

from that quite a lot. But the question

12:58

is, yeah, who, obviously,

13:00

as Mark saying, that you've got NGOs who are

13:02

working there on the ground that you

13:04

could help that may be able to

13:06

rectify some of some of the worst sort of

13:08

health situations and things

13:10

for people. yeah, but the danger is that people think,

13:12

well, why why would I send my money there? Because

13:14

it's not necessarily going to going to do

13:16

any good for all the reasons that

13:19

we've just heard and sort of hashtag

13:21

help Haiti or whatever that might be. It probably is

13:23

probably not going to be a it's not

13:25

necessarily what people

13:26

need. Well, let's look now at the UK. And

13:28

here in the UK, it has often

13:30

been complained about opposition leader

13:32

secure Starmer that his tenure in charge of

13:34

the Labour Party has been light

13:36

on dramatic pledges of reform.

13:39

Whether or not indirect response to this

13:41

criticism he has today made about

13:43

his dramatic pledge of reform as a

13:45

British political leader can, that

13:47

in his first term as prime minister

13:49

should he have one, he will abolish the

13:51

House of Lords. The lords is the

13:53

UK's unelected upper chamber currently

13:55

home to seven hundred and eighty

13:57

six job for lifers, including

13:59

twenty five bishops any

14:01

number of friends, associates, cronies, or

14:03

blackmailers of recent prime ministers,

14:05

and a few dozen people whose qualification

14:07

is primarily that one of their ancestors was

14:09

a good friend of Edward the fourth. Here is

14:11

some of what secure had to say.

14:13

Labor

14:14

will rebuild trust by

14:16

reforming the center of government, cleaning

14:18

up sleeves, nourishing the

14:21

relationship between central government

14:23

and the devolved authorities Monday

14:25

replacing the unelected House of Lords

14:28

with a new smaller, democratically elected

14:31

second December, not only

14:33

less expensive, but

14:35

also representing the regions and nations

14:38

of the United Kingdom.

14:39

Terry, first of all, are

14:42

you enthused by this idea

14:44

of exponging, ejecting, removing

14:47

the model. I

14:48

I like a lot of the idea

14:50

I just you know, having seen this a

14:52

few times before, you tend to think

14:54

that you know how it ends, which is that

14:56

somebody comes along saying, we are going to

14:58

do wholesale reform of the House of Lords.

15:00

We know we tried it in nineteen ninety nine. We

15:02

tried it in twenty twelve. And within a couple

15:04

of years, you get, we got a very

15:06

very small piece of reform of the House of Lords that we

15:08

have finally managed to get through before

15:10

It is the problem here that the Lords have to

15:12

vote for it. partly the problem is that people always

15:14

have to vote for it partly. It's one of those things

15:17

that a lot of people don't care about at

15:19

all and a few people care about very, very

15:21

much indeed.

15:22

Just before we talk about the case

15:24

for an unelected versus an

15:26

elected upper house, I I do also wanna play

15:28

a clip from George Parker at the

15:30

Feet who spoke to us earlier today.

15:32

I

15:32

think the problem with House of Law's reformer though that most

15:35

people would agree that House of Law's Law

15:37

is indefensible. reforming it is a

15:39

huge task. It requires a lot of

15:41

parliamentary time. The House of Lords will

15:43

always resist reforming itself. that

15:45

can cause a lockdown and you're trying to get other

15:47

much more important legislation through the House of

15:49

Parliament. And data Cameron,

15:51

as the head of the coalition government, tried to

15:53

reform the House of Lords, in twenty

15:55

twelve with the help of the liberal democrats who were

15:57

very enthusiastic about it, but in the end, they were

15:59

forced to abandon it. if

16:02

you look at House of Lords, yeah, repeated attempts over

16:04

Monday hundred years have been made. And

16:06

you still got a situation where about AC members of House of

16:08

Lords our hereditary peers,

16:10

people who own their position there purely to

16:12

the fact that they're the relative of

16:15

some illegitimate offspring of Charles the

16:17

second four hundred years ago. It's an incredible situation.

16:20

George Parker from the Feet. Mark,

16:23

before we talk about the practice

16:25

of an unelected upper

16:27

house, is there a a theoretical case

16:29

for it? Do you think the UK is not alone in

16:31

doing this? Canada, for example, has an

16:33

unelected senate. The

16:35

idea that you have a

16:37

what is essentially a large reviewing

16:40

panel of distinguished learned

16:42

citizens to reflect without

16:44

prejudice or ambition upon the machinations

16:46

of the elected house. I mean, is it a terrible

16:48

idea? I think there's a pretty respectable case

16:51

for that actually that enables

16:54

somebody other than The

16:57

most recently elected to take a longer view

16:59

and ask questions about, are we sure

17:01

this is absolutely the right way to

17:03

frame this law? shouldn't we

17:05

have a bit of accountability and scrutiny

17:07

of it before it's just nodded through. That is a

17:09

pretty respectable case for that.

17:11

And most Democracies do

17:13

have second chambers and they play a useful

17:15

function. I think the

17:17

issue with the House of Lords

17:19

is I mean, you gave them

17:21

a terrific write up in your introduction,

17:23

Andrew, to our discussion.

17:26

And that has drawn the attention of lots of

17:28

people Monday the most recent

17:30

attempts to reform it by the Blair government particular

17:32

then got unwound subsequent

17:35

governments started appointing

17:37

far too many totally

17:39

unqualified people, and that's what brought

17:41

the thing into Distribute again. And this isn't

17:43

the most important thing, Kirstama, if

17:46

he comes into government or the most urgent thing you'll have to

17:48

deal with. But a lot of the country's

17:51

longer term problems are

17:53

related to failures

17:55

in our governance system. And this bit

17:57

of his reform alongside more

17:59

delegation, more decentralization, might

18:03

help over time to have us

18:05

a bit better governed, and that would

18:07

be a valuable thing for

18:09

the country. mean, Terry, is it is

18:11

it reformable short of the abolition

18:13

that Kiyastama is

18:16

suggesting? Because obviously,

18:18

the present situation is ridiculous.

18:20

I mean, when when you when

18:22

you peel away the niceties, frankly,

18:24

you you can buy a seat in the woods.

18:27

and and and people do.

18:29

The idea, though, if

18:31

there were guardrails and

18:34

protocols and procedures, so

18:36

you were obviously a, you know,

18:39

a qualified person. Could

18:41

could there be something to us? I mean, I think

18:42

that is probably, you know,

18:45

with a Starmer government what we would

18:47

actually end up with. And there

18:49

are a few things that you could do

18:51

relatively straightforwardly. I mean, I do think it's a

18:53

good idea that you have people in the

18:55

legislature who aren't solely professional politicians

18:58

so that you can have a a doctor or a scientist

19:00

or even, like, you know, a film director

19:03

or somebody talking about areas that they've worked in and and

19:05

where they actually do know what they're talking

19:07

about. But it is too big. You could reduce the

19:09

size on it. You could

19:11

stop doing party

19:13

political appointments to quite the

19:15

same extent, and you could have

19:18

the same scrutiny for those

19:20

kind of party political appointees. So the kind of people

19:22

that we've just seen Boris Johnson try

19:24

to appoint or promise jobs to

19:26

currently sitting MPs. and

19:29

and to actually have a have a higher bar and

19:31

say, well, firstly, with there there need to be fewer

19:33

of you. You probably shouldn't stay

19:35

there forever. I mean, you can now

19:37

decide that you're gonna step down as a peer, which you

19:40

couldn't do before. That's the kind of

19:42

gradualist approach where you get. And you

19:44

could just you know, have greater

19:46

scrutiny of people and perhaps limit the

19:48

amount of time that they that they spend in the House of

19:50

Rights. Yeah.

19:50

I I I'm with you. I think

19:53

a ten limit and much

19:55

better scrutiny on who gets put

19:57

in there and fewer them. It is

19:59

important to say there are some

20:01

super impressive -- Mhmm. -- people in the

20:03

House of Law to add enormous value and

20:06

who have successfully

20:08

stopped successive governments in doing

20:10

some of the madder more barking

20:12

things. So there's a real role to

20:14

be played there.

20:15

And also people who actually want to turn up and

20:17

do the scrutiny rather than just saying, I've got a

20:19

peer edge, which will get me a nice table in a restaurant

20:21

that you actually got to be willing to say, well, I

20:23

will do x many days a year, you know,

20:25

as a minimum. than you can turn up and get

20:27

your allowance and not actually vote or debate on

20:30

a thing at

20:30

the moment. Mark is that clip from George

20:33

Parker into May this would not be a

20:35

small undertaking. And and

20:37

anybody who decided to do this, whether it's

20:39

CareStimer or any other prime minister would be

20:41

investing colossal amounts of time, energy,

20:43

political capital in getting this

20:45

done if indeed proved possible to get

20:47

it done at all. But is

20:49

one of the problems going

20:51

to be I'm not a constitutional

20:53

scholar, but there is an issue

20:55

here. This is a significant unpicking

20:58

of the British settlement.

21:01

It is an unpicking of the British Church

21:03

and the British State. I mean, this this

21:05

is no small change. I I think

21:07

it's perfectly feasible if you

21:09

can generate enough consensus to

21:11

make meaningful changes of the assault that

21:13

Terry's laid out. And we've we've just talked about And

21:15

we always need to be a referendum. I

21:17

don't think so. No. I mean, the Blair government didn't need

21:19

a referendum. And I'm I would be

21:21

very surprised if But you weren't

21:23

talking about abolition, though? Well,

21:27

I think what's happening at the moment is a

21:29

platform is being set out where it which

21:31

everyone knows would be subject to

21:33

discussion and negotiation and

21:35

because these turkeys do have to vote for a bit of this

21:37

Christmas. So they will have to be as

21:39

there was when Blair pushes reforms

21:41

through. They'll have to be compromise

21:43

and debate and refinement of things.

21:46

But some improvement

21:48

on what we have now I

21:50

think, is on the agenda if he gets a chance

21:53

to come in and form a government, and

21:55

that will probably be a good thing

21:57

depending on exactly where he ends

21:59

up. Terry, just a final thought on the politics

22:01

of this. How careful would

22:03

a Labour government in particular need

22:06

to be about managing the

22:08

discourse around this. Because once you

22:10

start getting at the idea of like,

22:12

well, nobody elected these people,

22:14

why do they have power over us? Some of them are

22:16

just there because of who they're related to. I

22:18

mean, if if you're the prime minister of

22:21

the United kingdom, you want to contain that conversation at

22:23

a certain point, don't you? Well, you do

22:25

be

22:25

particularly because in the House of Lords, it's

22:27

exactly where you see, you know, the

22:29

links between, you know, the House

22:31

of Lords, the Crown, you know, the state opening of Parliament, you've got and

22:34

we've got a new king and yeah. That

22:36

that once you start to unpick

22:38

the exact details of how

22:40

this works, how the crown in parliament

22:43

works, and you start to suggest that, you know,

22:45

people shouldn't be there necessarily

22:47

by right also the, you know, the the

22:49

involvement of the church as well and the bishops being

22:51

there. Yeah. It is, you know, you don't want if

22:53

you start pulling on some of these threads,

22:55

then it may come apart. But I think particularly Keirstama

22:57

is gonna want to be relatively

22:59

cautious in in how he approaches that. And

23:01

that he's certainly not gonna go in all guns

23:03

blazing and start talking about Republicanism

23:05

or something like that. That's that's not really gonna

23:08

happen.

23:08

And that is a topic for another show entirely.

23:10

But right now, it is the time of year

23:12

at which we are reminded that British election

23:15

geography is risen by a

23:17

terrible schism as the boffins

23:19

behind both the Collins Dictionary and

23:21

the Oxford English Dictionary unveil

23:23

their words of the year. We discussed

23:25

Collins two thousand and twenty two winner

23:27

in this space recently. It

23:29

was permacrisis, a phrase which none

23:31

of our panel had heard never mind

23:34

uttered. The OED seeking to establish a point of difference

23:36

put a shortlist to a public vote, so

23:38

we should probably at least be grateful that

23:40

the winner wasn't Monday faced

23:43

ahead of metaverse, a ghastly virtual

23:45

reality with which no sane person wants

23:47

anything to do, and I stand with

23:50

a hashtag popular with self

23:52

regarding online blowhards. The

23:55

winner is goblin mode,

23:58

had either view previous to just now ever heard

24:00

or use the phrase goblin mode. I I

24:02

think I'd

24:02

heard it earlier this morning, however,

24:04

on the radio a completely not guilty.

24:05

A completely new one on this. Yeah. I I I'm

24:08

I'm I'm a bit baffled by this. I had at

24:10

least heard of Metiverse and

24:12

I had seen in the wild v

24:15

I stand with hashtag.goblin mode

24:18

totally new to me, but it is, and I looked

24:20

it up. A type of

24:22

behavior, says here, which is

24:24

unapologetically self indulgent, lazy,

24:26

slovenly, or greedy, typically in a way

24:28

that rejects social norms or

24:30

expectations, there's a House of Lord's joke

24:32

there somewhere. Does that tell us

24:34

anything about these times do we

24:36

think? I I

24:36

think when I once I knew what it meant, I thought

24:38

it could as actually a quite occasionally,

24:41

quite useful word. I couldn't say, you

24:43

know, I couldn't say, yes, I've just been in goblin

24:45

mode today. I haven't left the house or had a show. And

24:47

we're obviously, I haven't I have left the

24:49

house now. So I thought it might come in might come in as

24:51

a word, but I'd never heard anybody

24:53

use it in real life when

24:55

in real conversation.

24:56

No. Me neither. I I gather

24:58

it. Sort of the gaming industry has used

25:00

that people would play lots of mid to end games like it.

25:02

I can think of a few people I would apply

25:05

it to. I think I've seen a

25:07

little bit of Matt Hancock in

25:09

Dublin mode, I have to say, as was exposed on

25:11

I'm a celebrity. More

25:13

darkly, I think a bit

25:15

of Putin in Ukraine is unattractively

25:17

goblin Monday Mhmm.

25:20

How how long

25:22

we'll be using it? I'm not sure. It might be

25:24

popular but whether we'll still be talking about

25:26

people in Dublin mode a year from now I don't know.

25:28

Yeah. I'm I'm not convinced it's

25:31

a a sticker around

25:33

myself. My my suspicions are also

25:35

raised somewhat by the margin of victory.

25:38

was three horse race in which it polled ninety three

25:40

percent of the vote now marked in some of

25:42

the jurisdictions in which you have

25:44

worked. You'd have one or two questions. Wouldn't

25:46

you? Yeah. I mean, some of my jerry for

25:48

a hundred and three percent. But, yes,

25:50

it is a bit suspicious. Do either

25:53

of you have any better ideas

25:55

for what should have been the word of two

25:57

thousand and twenty two. See, last year's

25:59

last year's words were more

26:01

comprehensible. The Oxford one

26:03

was Vax short for vaccine,

26:05

obviously. And the Collins one was

26:07

NFT, which was, of course, that

26:09

thing where you just give somebody money

26:11

and they go, now your own thing, which

26:13

doesn't exist. see if you can sell it to some other

26:15

idiot. Yeah. I

26:15

mean, assuming that it has to be a new, I

26:17

will probably go with with party gate.

26:20

Party gate? That was kind of the word of the I mean,

26:22

because resignation's see a word that, you know, has

26:24

been around. I do wonder whether this sells

26:26

dictionaries. That's my my next

26:28

question. because I haven't bought one since my my

26:30

current dictionary does not have the word internet in

26:32

it, which is the other

26:32

way I go, I bought it. Mark, do you have a

26:35

rival word Well, this may be

26:37

me going into goblin mode. sleep.

26:39

I wanna make the case for doing

26:41

a Zelensky. Doing a Zelensky

26:44

is being put in a

26:46

horrible, unmanageable position

26:49

doing unexpectedly, brilliantly, in

26:51

dealing with it winning widespread

26:53

admiration Monday it as a

26:55

result. Is is this is this one you have

26:57

coined on your own? I'm afraid it's all my own

26:59

invention. That's why there's a bit of goblin mode in there,

27:01

Andrew. I I think that's actually quite

27:03

good because you because it's Zelensky

27:05

as well as a collect and with

27:07

syllables, has that sort of ring

27:09

to it. You can see how languages might

27:11

adopt that. I haven't worked with you in the

27:12

Monday yet. Yeah. III I

27:15

don't know what the nominating procedure

27:17

here is. I don't know if any of us know anybody

27:19

at the columns or the 0ED but I mean,

27:21

it could it could be a runner next year.

27:23

Mark Lowcock and

27:25

Teri Steersnique. Thank you both very much for joining

27:27

us. Finally, on tonight's show, this weekend,

27:30

Ukraine celebrated the 300th

27:32

anniversary of the birth of the country's famous

27:34

philosopher, Rehohi Scovarada.

27:36

Among the commemorations of his life this year

27:38

was the unveiling of a statue of

27:40

Scovarada in front of Ukraine House.

27:43

in Washington DC. Monocles Monocle was

27:45

there to take in the festivities and

27:47

to ask why cultural diplomacy matters

27:49

so much to Ukraine in a

27:51

time of war. My name

27:53

is Solomia. I

27:55

was born in Ukraine, and this is

27:57

Andreyfit

27:57

Kukka. Andreyfit Kukka. I'm born in

27:59

Ukraine. We

28:00

are musicians. We both have

28:02

doctorated music and violin and flute. And Andrey

28:05

also collects a lot of

28:07

different types of flutes from all over the

28:09

world that he's big

28:11

collection is Ukrainian flutes. You

28:12

see all Most of them are Ukrainian flutes,

28:15

about two hundred fifty flutes in

28:17

my

28:17

collection. placed

28:20

from Ukrainian mountains, Carpathian

28:23

mountains in Ukraine, and we

28:25

have also a bigger ensemble. We

28:27

actively perform in the to form a Kennedy Center

28:29

Library of Congress. You name

28:31

it to venues, and we we

28:33

promote Ukrainian culture and

28:35

you Korean

28:35

music. diplomacy through music. It's

28:37

music art. Very important. If not

28:39

culture, if not language, music, you

28:41

know, we would probably be Nigerian

28:52

My

28:56

name is Roxanna

28:56

Mercaraba. I'm the ambassador of Ukraine

28:59

to the United

28:59

States. We are in Ukraine

29:01

house. We call it home away from

29:03

home. It's the Ukraine House, the center

29:05

that we have opened on September first

29:07

two thousand twenty one. when

29:10

President Zelensky visited Washington

29:12

DC. It was before this reinvasion

29:14

of Ukraine happened. And it

29:17

works in close cooperation with the embassy, but it's

29:19

essentially the place that is open twenty four

29:21

seven for Ukrainians, but also

29:23

Americans as the

29:25

place where we champion Ukraine in the

29:27

United States, where we have cultural events,

29:29

where we have different types

29:31

of business forums and events.

29:33

Monday we celebrate a lot of important dates

29:36

here. But after February twenty fourth,

29:38

it also became the center of resistance,

29:40

the center of taking care of our

29:42

wounded warriors, you know, the

29:44

fundraising.

29:50

Microsoft

29:50

you. I am the Executive Vice President

29:52

of the Ukrainian Congress Committee of America,

29:54

which is a representative of Umbrella Organization,

29:56

the Ukrainian Community. founded in nineteen forty

29:58

here in Washington DC. Tell

30:01

me where we are. It's very loud. What what is

30:03

happening here? This is an absolutely

30:05

wonderful upper opportunity to celebrate

30:07

Ukrainian culture, to celebrate Ukrainian

30:09

identity. This is the 300th anniversary

30:11

of Pehouri Skoroda

30:14

who was a famous poet, a famous writer, a famous

30:16

philosopher, a famous thinker, and

30:18

brought forth everything about Ukrainian

30:20

culture and about the Ukrainian ism,

30:23

what it is to be Ukrainian. At that

30:25

particular time, three hundred years ago, being subjugated

30:27

in the Russian empire, Much

30:29

like Ukraine was subjugated for seventy eighty years

30:31

in the Soviet empire. And

30:34

unfortunately now, whether eight years ago or

30:36

nine months ago, that

30:38

Russia is trying to to

30:40

reinsteal that type of Russian

30:42

imperialism in Ukraine. We won't be

30:44

defeated. We weren't defeated three hundred years

30:46

ago. We weren't defeated eight years ago. We're

30:48

not going to be defeated nine months and

30:50

into this war as well.

30:53

It's Mark

30:56

Rhodes.

30:56

I am a sculptor type

30:59

guy. My business with

31:01

my wife Ellis Bensinger is

31:03

called FARIL Poodle Studio, and

31:05

we are in Gootchland, Virginia near

31:07

Richmond. I feel just nothing but honor and

31:09

gratitude to have this amazingly

31:14

symbolic metaphorical journey of

31:16

this little statue, wandering

31:19

around like Scavura Dafa thirty years

31:21

to finally find it just a

31:23

perfect home for it. It doesn't really

31:25

make much sense anywhere else,

31:27

you know. The embassy, they're in

31:29

Georgetown, and there's no outside.

31:31

You know, it's there's not much room

31:33

for cultural, you know, receptions,

31:35

excumations, performances, you

31:37

know. So were very limited. So

31:40

getting Ukraine House just changes

31:42

everything, and this place is so there's

31:44

something going on here every day.

31:46

It's fabulous. It's amazing.

31:50

Why is a place

31:51

like this so important

31:53

and the role of culture is so important. You are

31:56

not

31:56

prepared for the war.

31:58

It's very difficult to get prepared for the

32:00

war. Right? And

32:02

when the war started, of course, the

32:04

priorities have been very clear. We needed more

32:06

support. We needed all the security,

32:08

assistance, and weapons. we needed the financial support in order

32:10

to sustain the government operations

32:13

in order to pay for our people

32:15

and to have the electricity and

32:17

we worked on sanctions somewhat. Then

32:19

we and we were thinking, you know, are we

32:21

continuing the cultural diplomacy in

32:23

in this time? it

32:26

was a discussion, but it wasn't a very difficult

32:28

one to be honest because all of us

32:30

said that we were peaceful. We

32:33

never attacked anyone. We never was

32:35

threat to Russia. The only reason they attacked

32:37

us is because we decided

32:40

and we made that existential choice

32:43

Couple of times during the previous centuries that we want

32:45

to be free, we want to be independent, and

32:47

we want to be European, and it's about

32:49

culture. It's about who we

32:51

are.

32:53

Maybe ten years ago, people would

32:56

perceive Ukraine

32:57

as part of, like, this kind of post

33:00

Soviet space, but now, people know this

33:02

is separate countries with a beautiful

33:04

history, and we offer to the world

33:06

a lot of things that was not

33:08

recognized as now people, like,

33:10

you know, open eyes. You know, like, the

33:12

chatecattle the bell. Like, now

33:14

everyone knows

33:14

this is Ukrainian.

33:27

This fight is about

33:29

values. This fight is about principles,

33:32

and this fight is about culture. So I

33:34

think having events like this allows

33:36

us to explain to

33:37

Americans who we are. What

33:39

is

33:39

it that is very important for us?

33:42

Freedom science and

33:44

learning something about yourself. Not

33:46

only live in peace, not only

33:48

having a bread and a

33:50

house, but also think and what is it that we can share

33:52

with the world. When we have to fight, we

33:54

fight, you know, who will not give up and who will

33:56

not surrender our homeland. But what

33:58

we really

33:59

like do is we like to grow food and

34:02

we like to paint and we like to

34:03

read and we like to write and we really

34:05

hope that peace will

34:07

turn to Ukraine soon

34:08

and we can do that twenty four

34:10

seven rather than looking for weapons

34:14

and sanctions.

34:17

That

34:17

was Monocle correspondent, Chris

34:20

Chalmers, reporting from Ukraine House in

34:22

the US capital, and that is all for this

34:24

edition of The Daily. Thanks to our

34:26

panelists, some Locock and Terry Steersney. Today's show was produced

34:28

by Lillian Fawcett and research by Emily

34:30

Monday. Our sound engineer was Sarah Nichols. I'm Andrew

34:32

Mueller here in London the News

34:34

at the same time for listening.