0:02

From the newsrooms of the Sydney Morning Herald

0:05

and the Age, this is inside politics

0:07

from please explain. I'm Jacqueline

0:09

Mainly. It's Friday, March twenty

0:11

fourth. This weekend, New South

0:13

Wales will go to the polls to decide whether to

0:15

return the coalition to power for a fourth

0:18

term. The race couldn't be tiresome,

0:20

and the stakes couldn't be higher for the liberal party.

0:23

If the liberals are voted out in New South Wales,

0:25

that will leave Tasmania as the only

0:27

state in the Federation with the liberal

0:29

leader. NSW can Labour leader

0:31

Chris Mins deliver the New South Wales Labour

0:33

Party of victory for the first time in more than

0:35

a decade,

0:36

where the population

0:37

growth for Sydney in particular. And I'm

0:39

seeing the vast majority of it going into

0:41

where and sitting without the infrastructure they need. But that's

0:44

reasonable. Or why don't you just calm

0:45

down? Like, why don't you just calm down? Or will Premier

0:48

Dominic Farright hold onto power? And

0:50

if he does, What message will that send

0:52

to federal opposition

0:53

leader, Peter Dutton, and the Liberal Party?

0:55

It's the approach of Labour, which is doing

0:58

nothing say nothing, deliver nothing. On that

1:00

side, there were no schools in hospitals. On that note

1:02

on the

1:02

left. Gentlemen, Premier's government. And last

1:04

weekend, Clash broke out between protesters

1:07

in Melbourne after a group performed the

1:09

Nazi salute on the steps of Victoria's

1:11

State Parliament on Saturday. NSW

1:17

then, the Victorian government has announced that

1:19

it will fast track legislation to banned

1:21

the Nazi salute. And federally,

1:24

opposition leader Peter Dutton tried and

1:26

failed to suspend parliament for

1:28

a private members bill to ban Nazi symbols

1:30

under the Commonwealth than opioid. Treatment

1:32

today of people of

1:34

the Jewish faith is an abomination, and

1:37

it is equally condemned in that it would be

1:39

used for political So what does this

1:41

incident tell us about the threat of

1:43

right wing extremism in this country?

1:46

And are our politicians adequately addressing

1:49

the increasing threat? Or are they just politicizing

1:51

the issue? Plus, on

1:53

Thursday, prime minister Anthony Albanisi

1:56

revealed the exact wording of the Up coming

1:58

referendum question on the indigenous voice

2:00

to parliament. Today,

2:02

chief political correspondent David Crow

2:04

and New South Wales state political editor, Alex

2:07

Smith, joined me to discuss the week in

2:09

politics.

2:11

Welcome Alex and David. Good

2:13

to be talking again. Hi. Alex,

2:16

let's start with the New South Wales election and the

2:18

two candidates facing off against each

2:20

other. Premier Dominic Farright and Labour

2:22

leader Chris Mins. What should

2:24

we know about both of them?

2:26

What we have focused on a lot, and

2:28

it's the reality is there are two men

2:31

in the early forties very hungry

2:33

for victory. They have

2:35

young children so very much focused around

2:38

cost of living issues in terms of families.

2:41

But think what has been particularly interesting

2:43

in this campaign, which haven't seen

2:45

in other federal or state campaigns

2:48

that I have covered is How

2:50

similar these two men really are? Of

2:52

course, they've got different ideological positions

2:54

as you would expect, but they're very similar

2:56

and I think the good situation

2:58

we could end up in New South Wales is either would

3:00

be a strong and capable and competent

3:03

premier. What will let

3:05

down someone like Dominate Farright is the

3:07

team behind him, whereas obviously, Chris Mins

3:09

and Labour have had more time to really

3:12

build a strong team, and and they're

3:14

quite disciplined and unified as

3:16

we know under Dominic Farright, a

3:18

lot of it NSW if he's fault is his team

3:21

is not the same. You know, they're

3:23

not unified. They're not disciplined. And

3:25

that's a big problem for him. And

3:27

it's really rattled him and made it difficult

3:29

going into this campaign. Polls

3:32

are showing that the race is very tight. Just how

3:34

tight are we talking? Well, I think

3:36

the one thing we can rule out is

3:39

at the coalition won't win in majority.

3:41

Other than that, I think, realistically, this

3:44

will end in a minority government. And

3:46

the polls are showing have consistently showed

3:48

for several months now that labor is in

3:50

front. I think it's tightened a lot, but

3:52

I do think the way things

3:54

seem to be heading and certainly the feedback

3:57

I'm getting from people on the ground in polling

3:59

booths, that sort of thing, is that the momentum

4:01

seems to be behind labor somewhat now.

4:03

Mhmm. So I think a lot of people are expecting

4:06

both from the coalition side and from labor,

4:08

that where we will probably land

4:10

is labor minority, and

4:13

they'll obviously to be able to former

4:15

government, they will need the cross bench, that will be

4:17

presumably the three greens and Ps

4:19

who are in the lower house. And depending how many

4:21

seats they pick up whether they need another one

4:23

or two cross benches. But I think

4:26

it will really be tight. And I'm not sure

4:28

we will get a result on Saturday night.

4:31

And it could give the greens potentially quite

4:33

a lot of power if they hold the balance

4:35

of power in a minority

4:36

government. Yeah, that's right. I think what we'll see

4:38

really interestingly is in the lower house

4:41

quite likely we'll have the greens

4:43

with the balance of

4:43

power, but then conversely in the alpha

4:46

house, we may well see one nation with the

4:48

balance of power. It's kind of extraordinary.

4:50

Don't you think that after twelve years of a

4:52

liberal government, it's been plagued by

4:55

scandal. They've lost two premiers to

4:57

ICAC investigations. There

4:59

have been accusations, proven accusations

5:02

of pork barreling that's been scandal in

5:04

fighting. That it's still not going

5:06

to be a clear labor majority. Ordinarily,

5:08

a labor government should ramp it

5:10

in. What does that tell us

5:12

Well, I think what it really reminds us

5:14

is just how badly

5:17

Labour lost the election, the state election in

5:19

two thousand and eleven. They were reduced to just twenty

5:21

seats. They were completely wiped out

5:24

really. So they have had to rebuild from

5:26

a very low base, and it's taken

5:28

twelve years. I mean, it's pretty

5:30

extraordinary. That it has taken

5:32

that long. I think because as you say, it's a

5:34

tired government NSW, twelve years

5:36

is a long time for one party to

5:38

be in power. And as you pointed

5:40

out, what often happens as we saw

5:42

with the Labour back in when it was

5:44

lasting government in New South Wales, it ended

5:47

up tearing itself apart. There was horrendous

5:49

corruption, proven corruption. Allegations,

5:52

and it just completely collapsed and

5:54

had to rebuild. So they're starting from very

5:56

low base. But I do also

5:58

think it's somewhat extraordinary that when we've

6:00

had all these, controversy scandals

6:02

that have plagued the government, particularly

6:04

Dominic Farright, although he has managed to sort

6:07

of steer his way through. I do think it's pretty

6:09

remarkable that it's gonna be these close and And

6:11

like you say, labor is unlikely to completely

6:13

rump at home and and rule the majority.

6:15

I think that's unlikely unless something

6:17

goes

6:18

everything goes their way on Saturday

6:20

night. David, I wanna bring you in here.

6:23

What Alex is talking about is the enormous brand

6:25

damage that Labour did to itself you know,

6:27

back when it last held government, lost government

6:30

in twenty eleven in New South Wales.

6:32

It was plagued with corruption. Ediobied

6:34

was sort of almost the face of that government even

6:36

though he was sort of minor player in the

6:38

actual government. What does this tell

6:40

us at a federal level about how

6:43

badly out of favor certain political

6:45

brands can fall.

6:47

It's a huge warning to

6:49

all politicians about the

6:51

damage to their party from rotten

6:53

eggs in their own ranks? That's for

6:55

sure. I think there is a confidence

6:57

in federal labor that their

7:00

state colleagues are gonna make it over the

7:02

line in New South Wales on Saturday.

7:05

And that's not based on the vibe. It's

7:07

very much in line with what Alex was setting out

7:09

there. When the federal labor

7:11

folks look at the New South Wales State

7:14

contest seat by seat, they

7:16

think that labor can make it they're

7:19

not so sure about that being a labor majority.

7:21

So I guess the

7:24

view from Cambra within the federal

7:26

government is that they'll have labor,

7:28

state government, whether it's a majority government,

7:31

they're not so sure. So there are lots

7:33

of implications for the federation in that.

7:35

Anthony Albinisi actually gets along with

7:38

Dominic Farright. They can actually work

7:40

quite constructively together. But

7:42

clearly, if there's a switch to a labor government,

7:44

We're now looking at huge numbers

7:47

of state labor governments across

7:49

the federation, working now with a

7:51

Labour Prime Minister in Canada.

7:53

It does open up the possibility for more

7:56

agreements on things like health funding, education

7:58

funding, and so forth where they're all

8:00

more along the lines of common purpose. The

8:03

only, I guess, clear

8:05

trend we see in history is that those moments

8:08

don't last all that long. You get

8:10

a year or two where you get one party

8:12

in control across states

8:14

and camera, and then things

8:17

change again. They've certainly changed very

8:19

quickly from the days of the Morrison government

8:21

when all the States seem to be flashing with each

8:23

other constantly. Let's talk about the liberal

8:25

side of politics federally in relation to

8:27

the state election here in New South Wales.

8:29

If prototype wins, what sort of message

8:32

do you think that will send to the federal opposition

8:34

leader, Peter Jutton, unlikely

8:36

though that scenario may be. There's

8:39

a couple of interesting and

8:41

big questions there. A farright victory

8:44

says to the Federal Liberals, Move

8:46

to the middle of the road as fast as you can.

8:48

Get voters in the middle ground, and

8:51

you'll save yourselves. And

8:53

that will be a clear lesson. Now

8:56

I think that that lesson applies in

8:58

federal politics regardless

9:01

of the outcome of the New South Wales State election.

9:04

The lesson for Peter Dutton in terms of where

9:06

future support for the liberal party is

9:08

to be found is clear from the last federal,

9:11

election. He doesn't need the New South Wales

9:13

election to tell him how to succeed

9:15

in the future because the tales

9:18

won those seats from the legal party in

9:21

in the cities. Mhmm. And that's a, you

9:23

know, seismic threat, an existential threat --

9:25

Mhmm. -- to the liberal party in the big

9:27

city electrodes. So that's

9:29

already there. I think there is scenario

9:31

there, however, where a

9:33

defeat for Dominic Farright, who's

9:35

worked so hard to to go after

9:37

the middle ground. It will

9:40

embolden the more conservative members

9:42

of the federal caucus. They'll say, look,

9:45

try to be moderate, doesn't work.

9:47

You lose anyway. Right. So let's be

9:49

more conservative. Let's get out

9:51

there and mobilize our base. And

9:53

let's remember to fight on some of those.

9:56

Iconic conservative issues, whether that's

9:58

a cultural war, whether that's economic

10:01

policy. Mhmm. I think that's where

10:03

some of the federal argument could go

10:06

if we end up seeing Dominic Farright

10:08

hay defeated.

10:14

Let's just turn now to south

10:17

of the border, to the events that played out

10:19

in Melbourne over the weekend. Just to summarize,

10:21

An anti transgender rights rally was

10:23

held on the steps of the Victorian parliament,

10:25

and it was attended by a group of neo Nazis

10:28

who repeatedly performed the Nazi

10:30

salute. Then to complicate matters,

10:32

the Victorian Liberal MP More redeeming

10:35

attended the rally as well, although I

10:37

think she said she wasn't aware that

10:39

neo Nazis were there. David,

10:41

I'll go to

10:42

you. How has the Victorian Labour Party responded

10:44

to all of this? Well, with a huge

10:47

internal argument about what they should

10:49

do because more redeeming is

10:51

a level MP, a relatively

10:53

new one, but one with strong

10:56

views. And she's got

10:58

her supporters within the party,

11:00

within the branches. However,

11:03

the state level leader John Pizzuto

11:05

has said that she should be expelled from

11:08

the state level party room. And

11:11

he's got support among the leadership on that

11:13

because they've turned this into a

11:15

a test really about anybody who,

11:18

you know, is turning up to an event where there are

11:20

neo Nazis, simply cannot sit

11:22

in that state party room. That's dividing

11:26

some of the liberals in Victoria. It's

11:28

got federal implications as well. And I think it's

11:31

the kind of debate that you do see reverberate across

11:33

the country. When you get these questions

11:35

about where do you stand on a principle like this

11:38

Mhmm. -- the danger for the Liberals is

11:40

that Jean Pazetta can get his way

11:42

as the leader he's got to

11:44

show voters that he's got no sympathy for

11:46

anybody NSW with neo

11:48

Nazis, although there's a dispute about to what

11:50

extent Moradiming should be blamed

11:52

for

11:53

them. Right?

11:53

Yeah. Set that aside, but that's what he

11:55

wants to do. We'll end up with a situation

11:58

where Moradiming will still be a member of the Liberal

12:00

Party. And she'll still have

12:02

support among the liberal

12:04

branches in Victoria and possibly

12:06

branches elsewhere. And so there's a scenario

12:09

where she becomes a bit of a martyr here

12:11

for some of those conservative members of the liberal

12:13

base who say, well, look, don't blame her,

12:15

for the Nazis who turned up on that

12:17

day. And it turned

12:19

into a federal issue in question

12:21

time during the week because labor really

12:24

tried to to have it go at Peter Dutton

12:27

and suggest that he was sympathetic that he

12:29

wasn't speaking out against the

12:31

neo Nazis and against the

12:33

way that rally turned out in Victoria. When

12:37

Mark Dreyfus, the attorney general had a crack

12:39

at Peter Dutton in the question time over this,

12:41

basically blaming him for being silent, petted

12:44

up and went on indulgence in question

12:46

time and in spoke at length, about his condemnation

12:49

for the neo Nazis. He

12:51

was clearly angered by

12:53

the provocation from Mark Dreyfus

12:56

And the way I saw it is that it

12:58

actually gave Peter Dutton an opportunity

13:01

to explain himself in question time

13:03

almost as if the question was him when -- Mhmm.

13:06

-- really, in in question time it's meant to be about

13:08

questions to the government. So he took that

13:10

opportunity. He then followed it up

13:12

by saying, If you want to

13:14

pass a law outlawing the use

13:16

of banati symbols.

13:20

I'd support that NSW. therefore,

13:22

he's sort of taken that further step

13:24

to make it totally clear that

13:26

he's against neo Nazis.

13:29

And they did sort of try to put

13:31

forward a private member's bill to ban

13:33

Nazi symbols, I think, but the government shut that

13:35

down. Obviously,

13:37

as mentioned, this all started with an anti

13:39

transgender rally, whatever

13:41

that means. We've seen in the United

13:44

States in particular that NSW issues

13:46

in the particularly over the last year and in the

13:48

lead up to the presidential sort of race

13:51

there have become a major rallying

13:53

point for Republicans and and right wing

13:55

politicians. Is this issue

13:57

of transgenderism and anti transgenderism

14:00

Trojan horse for the

14:01

rash? And why are we hearing so much

14:04

about it from right wing groups at the moment,

14:06

David? It is becoming

14:08

a major issue, a sort of a cultural

14:10

issue for NSW. And

14:12

I guess it's some of it sort of

14:14

taps into their concerns about traditional values,

14:17

but they also see it as a way to really counter

14:19

some of the progressive side of politics, the progressive

14:22

side that's seeking fairness for transgender

14:24

people. And so it's turning into

14:26

that dividing line mobilizing

14:29

people in the conservative base.

14:32

NSW whether it's got further cut through for them,

14:34

whether it actually builds their support in

14:36

an electoral way, I think is

14:39

a really open question. I'm not so sure about

14:41

that because if you look at

14:43

getting back to the New South Wales election,

14:46

It's not as if the conservative

14:48

side of politics is on the ascendancy in

14:50

Australia at the moment. It's not. If you

14:52

look at election results, it's not. However,

14:56

There's always that base that needs to be mobilized

14:58

and there's that search for issues that

15:00

get people to sign up to volunteer to

15:02

join

15:03

up. And I think that's what this offers.

15:05

To some people on the conservative side of politics.

15:08

And Alex, this week in Sydney, we saw

15:10

LGBTQI plus protesters

15:13

peltered with rock and bottles outside

15:15

a church where one nation's Mark Latham had

15:17

been giving a speech. Tell us about

15:20

that. The one thing that Mark

15:22

Latham has pursued relentlessly in

15:25

parliament is this issue around, he

15:27

says, the growing teachings

15:30

of gender fluidity in our public schools.

15:32

It is his absolute obsession. Mhmm.

15:35

But as, you know, Dave had pointed out, don't

15:37

think this is broadly This isn't an

15:39

issue within the NSW parties itself.

15:41

It is very much a Mark Latham driven

15:43

issue within New South Wales politics. Although

15:46

he came out and condemned as he showed

15:49

that violence, I think he knew very well

15:51

that what he was doing was very provocative, turning

15:53

up to your church, just before an election

15:55

campaign. Of course, he says, you know, why should I

15:57

not do that? I am a candidate.

16:00

Absolutely, he's and so he should be able to talk

16:02

and speak at anything he's invited to, that's

16:04

exactly what happens in election campaigns. That's

16:06

what happens with elected officials. But

16:09

when it's involving something, like

16:11

transgender rights. I think

16:13

it was always going to be

16:15

problematic. I know people within the Catholic church were

16:17

very nervous about this event before

16:19

it took place. And I think it's pretty

16:21

extraordinary that we saw a small group of people.

16:24

Just turning up to say we just don't think

16:26

that this is an issue that should be Canvas.

16:28

So why you know, just just Latham had

16:30

to turn up so did they, but it became

16:33

very ugly. This goes beyond the state

16:35

election campaign, though. You know, this is there

16:37

is no no appetite

16:39

within New South Wales parliament for this kind

16:42

of debate around transgender farright

16:44

in in the sense of you know, Mark Latham is

16:46

very much out on his own. He clearly sees

16:48

a constituency there for his own

16:51

election and for his own sort of political

16:55

NSW, shall we say? But you're what you're saying is it's

16:57

not it's not something that's gonna

16:59

go more mainstream that the two

17:01

major parties will adopt as an issue that

17:03

will garner the many

17:04

votes. It's certainly not. And and, you know,

17:06

what we saw back in

17:08

the federal election campaign when the

17:10

Worringer candidate for the Liberals Catherine Dves

17:12

was making some comments around transgender

17:15

and sport. And at one point, Dominic

17:17

Parrotay weighed in he did a

17:19

a radio interview where he said, look, I think

17:21

we all agree girls should play sport against girls,

17:24

boys should play sport against boys. Why he

17:26

weighed into that was somewhat strange. I think

17:28

he was probably ambushed a little. But

17:30

very quickly after that, the independent m

17:32

p for Sydney Alex Greenwich, who is

17:35

very powerful within New South Wales

17:37

parliament because he has

17:40

the ability to really navigate some pretty

17:42

tricky social issues, whether it be decriminalizing

17:44

abortion, whether it's voluntary assisted

17:47

dying. He very quickly said

17:49

very strongly if Dominic

17:51

Paratay is gonna make comments like this and get himself

17:53

involved in these sort of areas, I will not

17:55

continue my support for a coalition

17:57

government.

17:58

And I think that's in a message very quickly that

18:00

in the coalition here, the Liberals here

18:02

in New South Wales cannot afford

18:04

to weigh into that debate in any way.

18:06

They don't want to be there. It's not what voters actually

18:08

want. It's It's a very on

18:11

the fringe issue here in New South Wales that's

18:13

being pursued by Mark Latham because as you

18:15

say he sees a very particular

18:18

group of people, very much on the right that he

18:20

thinks he can sort of woo and latch

18:22

onto, and we even see

18:24

where he's running in in New South Wales in the lower

18:26

house seats, seats that he hopes to steal

18:28

some votes off the liberals. You NSW, he does he's not

18:30

running in progressive seats. No. I don't

18:32

think we will see it as an issue. Going

18:34

forward in the next term of parliament. But I

18:36

do know that Mark Latham, who is likely

18:39

to get another person up in the upper house, we could see

18:41

four one nation MPs in the upper house

18:43

in New South Wales. I think we will see a

18:45

lot more discussion driven by Barclays

18:47

around the LGBTQ community.

18:50

Mhmm. And, you know, this issue is obsessed

18:52

with gender fluidity in schools. You know,

18:54

as though basically the whole curriculum is based

18:56

around

18:57

that, which is total nonsense.

18:59

Nonetheless, there's this constituency out

19:02

there who supports him. I

19:04

should note that Alex Greenwich has

19:06

also called Mark Latham despicable human

19:08

being. I'll just leave that there. Let's

19:11

talk now about the creep of strategy

19:13

in in in in illustrating politics more generally.

19:16

The director general of security at

19:18

AESO has talked about grievance,

19:21

motivated, violent extremism as being

19:23

a big national security threat. I think even

19:25

the biggest national security threat

19:27

NSW. What's he

19:28

talking about there?

19:30

He's talking about right wing groups that

19:32

egg each other on most of the time

19:34

through social media. Sometimes

19:36

sort of an individual level, it's hard

19:38

for them to always identify connections

19:41

between some of these characters, but

19:43

it's known that there are these right wing extremists

19:46

and they're a major source of tread

19:48

to the Australian community. Mhmm. That

19:50

shouldn't be a surprise when Mike

19:53

Burgess, the Head of Azio, says things

19:55

like that because we know that the

19:57

attack in Christchurch against

20:00

Muslims at two mosques was

20:02

by an Australian extremist who

20:04

sort of fueled that extremism online

20:07

So that's what they're worried about. That's what they see and

20:09

that's what they're combating. And I think

20:11

it is it's a very serious issue that

20:13

they're

20:14

combating. Is there a role for

20:16

federal politicians in this

20:18

space? Should they be banning Nazi

20:21

symbols? Is that just gonna politicize

20:23

the issue further and not make any NSW.

20:26

What can they actually do to address

20:28

this this threat of extremism, homegrown

20:30

extremism? Well, the security agencies

20:33

have been working on it for several years

20:35

now. So should the politicians just sort

20:37

of let them do their

20:38

thing? Or is there anything physicians can do?

20:40

Do they fund it? Do they fund education? Do

20:43

they fund counter extremism

20:44

programs? Or do they just sort of shut up about

20:46

it?

20:47

They do fund programs that are

20:49

intended to counter violent extremism.

20:52

Yeah. Right? So that has been happening

20:54

for several years. Perhaps there's an argument

20:56

for them to do more of it. The

20:58

interesting point that's sort of topical

21:00

this week is what do they do about

21:02

Nazi symbols? What do they do about the Nazi

21:04

salute? And of course, when that was raised

21:06

in parliament, it was a private members

21:08

bill from Peter Dutton saying,

21:11

let's ban it, and let's let's

21:14

punish people who use the Nazi symbol

21:17

with one year in jail. Now that

21:19

didn't make any headway because it was a private

21:21

member's bill governments never like

21:23

the other side coming up with an idea, and so

21:25

they they squash it NSW as it arises.

21:27

But I don't think the debate will go away. We've

21:29

seen that in New South Wales, and in Victoria,

21:32

there are measures that stop

21:34

people using Nazi symbols. I

21:37

do think it raises the question of why isn't there

21:39

something similar at the federal level should

21:41

there be? What happens if a protest group

21:43

turns up? On the lawns outside

21:45

federal parliament, they won't be covered by

21:47

New South Wales or Victorian there'll

21:50

need to be some kind of federal

21:52

measure on that front. So hopefully,

21:54

that debate will not go away because it's

21:57

a serious issue.

22:03

Just quickly, let's segue to the voice because

22:06

David, there was a very important development

22:08

on the voice to parliament on

22:10

Thursday, we got the actual

22:12

confirmed wording of what the referendum question

22:15

will be that will be put to the

22:17

Australian people sometime towards the end of

22:19

this year. It will read a proposal

22:21

or to alter the constitution to recognize

22:24

the first peoples of Australia by establishing

22:26

an abregional and torres strait islander

22:28

voice. Do you approve this

22:30

proposed alteration? So

22:33

we've got the wording. What

22:35

does that mean? And how do we

22:37

proceed from here? What happens

22:39

now? This wording is going to be put

22:41

to parliament in the coming week in a

22:43

bill that will then set out

22:45

the grounds for the referendum. There's

22:48

already a a machinery bill that's

22:50

gone through. To put this in

22:52

train. But the next step is

22:54

the bill that actually says, this is

22:56

what the referendum is about. This is the

22:58

wording. That goes to parliament. It then

23:00

goes to a parliamentary inquiry for

23:03

a while, and then it gets voted on around

23:05

June, I think. The train is

23:07

is on the tracks and it's moving in

23:10

a serious way. And one of the key

23:12

quotes from Anthony Albert and Easy on Thursday,

23:14

and he was quite emotional about

23:15

this. Government. Is that It's

23:17

going ahead.

23:19

We're all in.

23:21

To not put this to a boat, So

23:27

to not put this to a vote is

23:30

to concede defeat. You

23:34

only win when you run on the field

23:37

and engage. And

23:40

let me tell you, my

23:42

government is engaged.

23:45

We're all in. To not put a

23:47

tool vote would be to concede defeat, and

23:49

he's not gonna do that. Even though people think

23:51

that there's a a big risk of

23:53

defeat to this, which could set back

23:55

reconciliation for generation if

23:58

it loses. It's going ahead.

24:00

Yeah. So it's clear on that. One thing to say

24:02

about the wording, it makes

24:04

it slightly more clear. That

24:06

the parliament shall, subject to the constitution,

24:09

have power to make laws with respect

24:11

to matters relating to the voice. There's

24:14

no condition on what it

24:16

can make laws about with

24:19

respect to the voice. That's a slight

24:21

changing of the word order. From

24:23

the draft proposal on on this

24:25

wording. So it's slightly tightened

24:28

up the power of the parliament and that was

24:30

the message on Thursday, people who worry

24:32

about the voice detailing

24:34

laws or running programs

24:37

or having money of its own

24:39

-- Yep. -- the assurances

24:41

that it won't do that. And so there's there's

24:43

that assurance from Anthony

24:45

Albert Easy. But one one thing to point out finally,

24:48

The agreement on Thursday was very much among

24:50

those who support the voice. The challenge,

24:53

of course, is to win over those people who were

24:55

undecided as we found in our

24:56

surveys. People who are undecided or people

24:58

who are inclined to say no at this point.

25:00

Yeah.

25:01

The majority support the voice they wanted

25:03

to succeed. The government has to win over

25:05

those skeptics. And pro possibly explain

25:08

to them how it's gonna work because people don't like voting

25:10

for things that they don't understand. But

25:12

at least now, we will be able to see the yes

25:14

and no campaigns kick off in earnest and hopefully

25:17

have a civilized public debate about it.

25:19

I'm sure we'll be back here talking about this issue

25:21

again. And Alex will get you back

25:23

on again soon to talk about

25:25

whatever happens this

25:26

weekend. Probably the most exciting thing

25:28

about the election will be the actual result

25:31

rather than the campaign.

25:32

Oh, absolutely. It's been a very dull

25:34

campaign. I will tell you that.

25:37

Alright. Well, it's never boring with you too.

25:39

I really appreciate you coming in. So thanks again,

25:41

guys. Thanks. Thanks, Jackie.

25:47

Today's episode of please explain was produced

25:49

by Chi Wang and Julia Carrkattzel.

25:52

Our executive producer is Ruby Schwartz.

25:55

Please explain is the production of the age

25:57

and the Sippy Morning Herald. If you enjoy

25:59

the show and want more about journalism, subscribe

26:02

to our newspapers today. It's the best

26:04

way to support what we do. Search

26:06

the age or SMH dot com

26:09

dot a u forward slash subscribe. I'm

26:11

Jacqueline Melly. This is please explain.

26:14

Thank you for listening.