0:00

Sussed! Sorted! Shifted!

0:05

Want to be debt free? sorted.org.nz has

0:07

the tools and guides to help

0:09

me. And it's free. And this

0:11

week it is mortgages. So without further ado, I'm

0:13

going to welcome back into the show Tom Hartman,

0:16

who comes from Sorted. And Tom, thank

0:18

you. Thank you for your time and

0:20

energy. Thanks so much for

0:22

having me on again. I just love hanging out with you

0:24

guys. And greetings

0:26

to Shift Nation, right? Can we call it

0:28

that? I think he's coined the term today,

0:31

Shift Nation, and I think we like that.

0:33

I think we're going with it. Hey, congratulations

0:35

too. I mean, I'm breaking the million. That

0:38

is a nation. Right? Well, we're

0:40

trying to break the million in our bank account, and that's where we're

0:42

failing at the moment. I think the best

0:44

place to start this is, Mark is so right.

0:46

We're talking about mortgages today, and it's such

0:49

a daunting word at times. I imagine there's

0:51

a time when you can get to a point

0:53

where people have a whole bunch of mortgages, and

0:55

they're like, OK, I'm living a really comfortable life.

0:57

The idea of being birthed with a mortgage. Yeah,

1:00

the comfortable life might come after the mortgage. It

1:05

is a really daunting term. In fact, it

1:07

even sounds like death, right? It literally means

1:09

the dead pledge. Is

1:12

it really? We're starting real today. I like

1:14

that. Let's start real. Yeah.

1:19

Mortgages are this

1:22

really specific product that works in a certain

1:24

way, really mysterious, and they're big

1:26

and heavy things that go on for decades. But really,

1:28

when it comes down to it, at the

1:30

risk of, I don't want to be, you know,

1:33

seem like I'm trying to dumb stuff down or anything like

1:35

that, but really, it's just a kind of a loan. How's

1:38

this? Is that all right? We're

1:43

good. I can stay here. Yeah. It's a style of

1:45

loan. It's

1:48

a loan, basically, and you'll see a lot

1:50

of the banks sell it as home loans, because that's

1:52

actually a good way to understand it. It's a loan

1:54

you take out for your home. You can use it

1:56

for land or renovations and things like

1:58

that, but it's a real loan. Really big

2:00

fat loan to that we use

2:02

on properties and houses and homes.

2:07

On. The so many angles

2:09

take on this one said I am. I didn't really

2:11

know the best place to start at. I think that's

2:13

kind of where I will. I would like to throw

2:15

it's You because. There's a

2:17

lot that we will, we have to break down and

2:20

we need a break down in August. Breakdown Mondavi: The

2:22

word learn is probably the word with us on but

2:24

when it comes of mortgages and talking about mortgages just

2:26

started to with the best place they even start. Would

2:28

you talk about these bad boys. Lot.

2:30

Of course I'm going to say this it's own

2:33

so it is because we really break it down

2:35

in two different the building blocks of of home

2:37

buying. But when you trying to understand a mortgage

2:39

basically you really need to start the and understand

2:41

what interests is. And. Really? I'm

2:43

You know it at lots of people

2:46

think of interest is just that. A

2:48

you know that cost of of borrowing

2:50

money. but actually interest is the cost

2:52

of money over time. And because he

2:55

pay off a mortgage, I mean a

2:57

lot of mortgages are being priced out

2:59

over thirty years right now and over

3:01

in the states. When I used to

3:04

sell mortgages, weaving in crazy things are

3:06

we even have crazy things like forty

3:08

years. Imagine over forty years. So this

3:10

is. and so when interest. Rate.

3:14

Mortgages can seem like they're cheap money because

3:16

the interest rates are really tiny. You know,

3:18

they seem like a lot. Okay, so let's

3:20

go back to credit cards for second. K.

3:23

Garza hovering around twenty percent. A mortgage is

3:25

now hovering say around seven and a half

3:27

percent raise within seven and eight right now,

3:29

depending on what kind it is. So. That's.

3:32

Actually, much cheaper money, but because it's

3:35

over such long periods of time, We're.

3:37

Talking about usually you're gonna end

3:39

up. Spending. As much

3:41

as you borrow at least if

3:44

it was a twenty or more

3:46

years on interest. so borrow five

3:48

hundred thousand, pay back. A. Million.

3:51

right? Five hundred say that? Can you work

3:53

in smaller number? Some like goes by a

3:55

yeah yeah, let's let's let's let's bring it

3:57

right back cause I'd like to work actually.

4:00

take out a mortgage for $100,000 and end up paying the

4:02

$100,000 back and another $100,000 just

4:07

in interest over many, many

4:10

years. And

4:12

that's usually on a 20-year mortgage. Now because we're

4:14

pricing them out at 30 years, if you let

4:17

it go for 30 years,

4:19

it's going to be even more than that. It's going to be like

4:21

$150,000 just in interest. My

4:24

house is now on sale, guys. We

4:29

definitely have some tips that we're going to

4:31

go through today around mortgages, but could I

4:33

just... I actually want to start quickly. We

4:35

were talking about before we got started

4:37

recording. For some

4:39

of our shifters that messaged in, one of

4:42

the things I was discussing was, in these

4:45

times, it feels

4:48

like if you're a whanau, if you're a

4:50

family, if you're someone wanting to buy a house, particularly if you

4:52

have kids, it's not

4:55

we can kind of have the mortgage and

4:57

we can have these other experiences. It does

4:59

feel like if we go for a mortgage,

5:02

the kids might not be able to do a

5:04

student sport this year. We won't be able to

5:06

go and have that holiday every two years. These

5:10

are things that sacrifices that people now

5:12

are having to make. Before

5:14

we get into the tips, what

5:16

do you think people should be thinking about for those...

5:18

Because different people are listening to this podcast right now.

5:21

Some people probably want some questions answered around they

5:24

have a mortgage and some other... We'll get

5:26

to that. But if someone's listening to this

5:28

now and they're really thinking about buying a

5:30

home or what they should do, what's a

5:33

walkthrough mentally or some tips that you think

5:35

maybe people should think about

5:37

before doing this? Well,

5:40

above all, what we want to be about

5:42

is our financial well-being. It

5:44

gives me a lot of joy, for example, some

5:47

of our fano from baseball, from our

5:50

baseball community where I live.

5:53

When I go to visit them, they're like, oh

5:55

yeah, we love our house because it's really cheap

5:57

and I can talk to them. and

6:00

I can tell that they've prioritized

6:02

their well-being. The house doesn't have

6:05

all the bells and whistles or anything like that, but

6:07

it's theirs. They're happy.

6:10

The kids are happy. They're playing around.

6:12

They don't miss not having every single

6:14

convenience. It's good for them right now.

6:16

So really, what we wanna do is

6:18

prioritize well-being. A product like a mortgage

6:20

needs to work for us. And it's

6:22

the way, because we're not all walking

6:24

around with $500,000 or even $100,000 in

6:26

our back pockets in

6:31

order to spend on a house, right? So a

6:34

mortgage is a really good product for getting

6:36

people into homes, I have to say. So

6:38

I'm not gonna come out and say, hey,

6:41

this is a really bad idea. For a lot of people,

6:43

it is a really good idea because

6:45

you need somewhere to live and you need the security

6:47

of it. And actually, for the long

6:49

term, when you get to, you

6:51

know, you wanna step back from working in

6:53

the future, in the far

6:55

future, it puts you in a

6:57

better place financially. So that's gonna

7:00

help your long-term well-being. So I

7:02

don't wanna say, hey, mortgage is

7:04

a bad idea, but it's

7:06

a big commitment and you never wanna get

7:08

yourself to a place where you have to

7:10

pick between something that gives you well-being like

7:12

kids' sports and a

7:16

home, right? It

7:18

could be more the choice, we were talking about this before,

7:20

right? It could be more the choice about well,

7:23

actually, we have a couple cars, cars

7:26

are incredibly expensive to run. Could

7:28

we go down to one car, find a way

7:31

to do it, give each other rides, you know,

7:33

use public transportation and all that? That could be

7:35

a choice. If you had to choose

7:37

between like two cars and actually getting into your

7:40

own home, the

7:42

home is gonna give you that much more well-being. No, I

7:45

agree. I think it's just, you know, we're gone

7:47

are the days where I

7:49

think this is like incredibly life

7:51

altering lifestyle decision now. And it

7:53

was before, but with the interest

7:55

rates now, you know, I just,

7:57

I think it's good for people to think about that. Even

8:00

some people do this in autopilot. You know,

8:03

it's more like, and I know amongst Kiwis,

8:05

it's a, you used to get, kind of,

8:07

you felt rent shamed, you know, if you

8:09

say, I think things are so bad now.

8:11

I don't think people feel rent shamed anymore.

8:13

And they shouldn't. Yeah. Like nobody should, nobody

8:15

should feel that. Um,

8:17

for here, like in

8:19

investing and buying houses, it's like a national

8:21

pastime, right? Culturally it's a big, big deal,

8:24

but it's almost too big a deal. If

8:26

you go overseas, if you travel to Europe,

8:28

like renting is

8:30

just a norm for people, it's not, uh,

8:33

you know, owning your own place is not

8:35

for, for everyone. So we want to make

8:37

sure that people tailor their decisions.

8:39

And this is one of the big decisions in

8:42

life. These are the ones that count. If anybody,

8:44

you know, tells you that personal finance is about

8:46

whether to buy coffee or not, or whether, no,

8:48

it's not about that. It's about these big decisions.

8:51

How many cars do you drive? How do you

8:53

finance those? When

8:55

can you buy your own home? Should you

8:57

buy your own home? How much debt do

8:59

you take on? How comfortable is that to

9:01

repay? How you got a Ford Ranger?

9:03

You can just downsize to a Corolla. Hey

9:05

man, it's not bad in my business yesterday, brother. It's

9:08

not bad in my business. We can just ride the,

9:10

you got a Swiss, you can start me up, man.

9:13

Hey Tom, why is it, why is it called a mortgage? Why

9:15

don't we just call it a home loan? Um,

9:17

well, actually, Is there a difference? No,

9:20

no, there's not. Technically,

9:23

there is, but you'll see like the banks

9:26

when they, um, when they advertise

9:28

it very often, it will be for a home

9:30

loan because, and

9:32

rightly so. They want us to think

9:34

about what you get from borrowing, which

9:36

is a home. Uh, you know, that's

9:38

what this product is for. Now, unfortunately

9:40

we've had this word mortgage come into,

9:43

um, um, into our language and it's

9:45

really, there's only really three

9:48

things that are at play with

9:50

the mortgage just to simplify it down. Okay.

9:52

So it's how much you're borrowing and

9:54

let's talk about a hundred thousand dollars. It's

9:57

what rate, what is that interest rate?

10:00

So if it's 7%, but

10:03

remember those finance guys, we talked about this

10:06

last time, those finance guys count in basis

10:08

points. It's like a hundredth of a percentage

10:10

point. So if it's like 0.25, that's 25

10:12

basis points. That's

10:16

like a big change because every time one

10:18

of those little percentages change, it means tens

10:20

of thousands of dollars of difference. It's

10:23

a huge thing. Okay? So

10:25

we need to pay attention to the rate. So

10:27

amount you borrow, the rate you're borrowing at, and

10:29

the term, how long it's going for. Is

10:31

it set up for 20 years, 25 years, or

10:34

30 years? And

10:36

it makes a huge difference on what

10:39

that term ends up being. And

10:42

when you're repaying a mortgage, every

10:44

extra dollar that you put into

10:47

it on your repayments, literally like

10:49

add another $5 to your repayments,

10:51

you're shaving off tens of thousands

10:53

of dollars of interest on

10:56

the other side. So a lot

10:58

more is in our control than we

11:00

realize. We've got levers. But again, it's

11:02

just these three things that are

11:04

really you need to think about with the mortgage. Amount,

11:07

rate, and term. Yep. Those

11:09

are the three. And if when

11:12

a lot more is in our control

11:14

that we can alter the outcome and how much

11:16

interest we're paying and how expensive it is for

11:18

us and how long this thing goes on for,

11:21

there's no law

11:23

that says it has to go on for 30 years. In

11:25

fact, the shorter it goes

11:28

for, the less interest you'll pay, you

11:30

can actually say. And every time we

11:32

pull one of those levers, we

11:34

structure it more in our favor. So

11:38

if you want to think about just

11:40

repaying a minimum payment on debt means

11:42

that it's structured entirely in favor of

11:44

the lender. It's good for them. They

11:47

get a stream of payment. It's all

11:49

good for them. But

11:52

that's like defeatist if we say like this

11:54

whole arrangement is good for them. Remember, we

11:56

get the home. We

11:59

Own it right from the end. Start and we're

12:01

paying it off of little by little. And.

12:04

We are in control of how

12:06

fast we repay. And

12:08

how much interest rate of pay? We're not

12:10

entirely at the mercy of interest rates going

12:13

up and down, which they do and actually

12:15

a lot of people. This is a difficult

12:17

podcast to do right now. I'm glad you

12:19

guys picked it because a lot of people

12:21

are and mortgage stress because we are in

12:24

one environment where money was really cheap. And.

12:26

Then interest rates shot up

12:29

very, very quickly and. In,

12:32

I don't need to tell all those

12:34

who are in mortgage just right now.

12:36

what the what saints In all that,

12:38

By even just last month, their twenty

12:40

two thousand people, twenty two, six hundred

12:43

borrowers, Who. Are behind on

12:45

their mortgage payments? That and real mortgage

12:47

stress, you know. And that's that's eight

12:49

hundred more than a month before, and

12:51

that's eighteen percent more than the year

12:53

before. So this is a very real

12:55

topic. yet the mortgage remains of the

12:57

main way that we can borrow for

12:59

a home and get our families into

13:02

homes and pay them off over time

13:04

and improve our long term well being.

13:06

That would just a bell has view there

13:08

has it. I'm sorry that of these doom

13:10

and gloom christians but I'm. As.

13:13

It gone past the red line like

13:15

that. How does this get better? Like

13:17

people upset that numbers only going on

13:19

a monthly basis at the numbers going

13:21

to get into the markets getting hotter.

13:24

I'm how as a country like

13:26

how to people see hopefulness like

13:28

Tennessee com attempt. What? Mesa,

13:30

Chandler. Yeah. government as it does, it

13:32

was the only. The economy Yeah, that.

13:34

that's exactly right. So we're in our

13:37

recession times here and this is what

13:39

it feels like. To. Thank you

13:41

for signing a set of everyone. So hesitant

13:43

to use the I will say we are

13:45

a lot of people. yeah we are in

13:47

it and and this is okay in the

13:49

sense that cycles go like this. We go

13:51

through tough times and one thing that we

13:53

can say is the future is not gonna

13:55

be the same. It could. be worse

13:57

it could get better but one thing it's going to

14:01

These are waves that come and go. These are

14:03

seasons that come and go and

14:05

this is just the time that we're going through right

14:08

now. We know those

14:10

interest rates shot up also

14:12

to contain inflation which

14:15

is even worse and I won't get

14:17

into a whole discussion about that but inflation has

14:19

been – Yeah, we need to un-focus on inflation. But

14:21

yeah, we could do another one on that. We

14:23

will. But the point is

14:25

inflation has been coming down. It's been changing.

14:28

It's been getting better already. So

14:30

things are not staying the same. That's

14:32

one thing that we can predict. I don't want to

14:34

throw your hospital pass here but obviously we have a

14:37

new government in charge for

14:39

– and I specifically want to talk about first-home buyers. Do you

14:41

think they've made it easier or are they going to make it

14:43

harder for first-home buyers to actually get a house? If

14:46

you're allowed to answer that. It's too

14:48

soon to say in the

14:51

sense that they've already inherited a

14:53

higher interest rate environment. So the

14:55

short answer is we don't know

14:57

yet. I'm not here to comment

14:59

on government policies or anything like

15:02

that but it is fair

15:04

to say we don't know. Okay, fair enough. Tom,

15:07

if we look back through the mortgages, the three

15:09

things that you put us out there. So let's

15:11

break down each one of those because I think

15:13

those three steps are super important. So if we're

15:15

sitting at home and we are thinking to ourselves,

15:17

okay, a mortgage is something I'm willing to do.

15:19

You've said amount. Can you break down amount

15:21

quickly for us and just tell us what you mean by amount

15:24

is one of the most important things you need to be thinking

15:26

about? So

15:29

when you're borrowing money, one of

15:31

the risks that you run as a borrower is

15:33

borrowing too much. Now, why

15:36

is that a thing? It's

15:38

a thing because very often we're

15:40

quite optimistic. We're bulletproof, right? At

15:43

the beginning, we're like, yeah, I can take down

15:45

that debt. I can handle those. And

15:47

very often it's sold to us on a minimum

15:49

repayment, right? We're thinking about, oh, yeah, let's think

15:51

how much is that going to cost me a

15:53

week, a fortnight, a month

15:55

or something like that. Yeah, I

15:57

can do that. But Actually, if

15:59

you've. Focus on actually limited in

16:01

how much you're borrowing. That is

16:03

one of the things in your

16:06

control of making it more comfortable,

16:08

less comfortable. And. Again I was thinking

16:10

of my friends who are walked in their house and

16:12

and and she was like. I. Love the

16:14

sound because it's really cheap and it's obviously they

16:16

hadn't borrowed too much so that something within an

16:18

hour control before you take on a mortgage. I

16:20

had a friend who owns all a few houses

16:22

and he said to me when I was going

16:24

to get my peers mortgage is it's me you

16:26

make and save all your money on the price

16:28

that you're India buying it for and he was

16:30

like if you can buy it for as little

16:32

as possible that means you get listens was built

16:34

up over the years you'll be in a you'll

16:36

have least a man accused of our I any

16:38

so writers that added you make your money on

16:40

the way Yeah right Yeah has it's those choices

16:42

you make right at the beginning. Of

16:44

how much to a debt to take on that

16:46

are really going to make the difference. I totally

16:49

agree. Yeah, great advice. What about right you talk

16:51

about right? What's that about? So.

16:54

Rate is the amount of interest on

16:56

that is being charged. And we're talking

16:58

about interest rates going up and that

17:01

affects mortgage rates. What's available on the

17:03

market? Non sorted. We've got this great

17:05

mortgage calculator and a It and we

17:08

pipe in to it all the rates

17:10

that are available on the market today.

17:12

So for example, you could actually browse

17:14

on our our on our calculator of

17:17

what's being offered and what difference it

17:19

makes you. And again these are these

17:21

tiny percentage points that. You know

17:23

he counting basis points of them. When they chains

17:26

they make you know hundreds thousands tens of thousands

17:28

of dollars of difference of your results of how

17:30

much you're gonna pay over time soap operas. Think

17:32

If I was looking at getting a mortgage right

17:34

now and just because I always bank with as

17:37

bank fell probably be the person who are typically

17:39

go to because you know my accounts are already

17:41

there. That gotta a back catalogue of all the

17:43

things I've done. I could actually go to sort

17:45

and go well if I go with this bank

17:48

the right isn't as good as say that other

17:50

bank and I should be shopping for my mortgage.

17:52

Their yes sir what. ends up happening mark

17:54

is our brain goes to shortcuts ranking as

17:56

it's you see her i know we're like

17:58

yeah i know this bank. I've been dealing with them

18:00

for a long time so I'm just going to go to them. It's

18:04

not to say don't go to your bank but

18:06

we're really big on shopping around. We're really

18:08

big on shopping around. Our website

18:12

but also with the help

18:14

of another website called interest.co.nz

18:16

publishes all these rates on

18:18

what's on offer in the

18:20

market and it's basically how expensive is money.

18:23

How expensive is the money you're borrowing?

18:25

That's the price of money at

18:28

the moment. It goes up and down, it

18:30

fluctuates but it affects your repayments. It's a

18:32

weird thing though because I changed when I,

18:34

to get my mortgage I changed

18:36

bank but I felt like I was cheating. Yeah,

18:39

we have the loyalty. I'll cheat on them

18:41

bro, they'll be cheating on us bro. I

18:44

felt like duty are going over to the other place but I still bank

18:46

at ASB but now I've gone to the Wispet. And I'm sure your previous

18:52

bank is happy that you still bank there.

18:54

I get nervous walking. But this is not

18:56

personal. This

18:59

is business, right? You're making a deal. Very

19:01

important point for people to hear. And when

19:05

you make a choice like that to shop

19:07

around and find the best deal, you're doing the

19:09

best by your family. You are actually

19:11

doing the best for everyone

19:13

who's going to live in this

19:15

home because you are actually making

19:17

it easier on yourselves and you

19:19

are directly impacting your well-being and

19:22

avoiding unnecessary mortgage stress. I

19:24

think this is a really important point

19:26

to make for people listening because I

19:29

assume that this is already an

19:31

overwhelming topic. This is already something that

19:33

people feel very heavy about

19:35

going to talk to. So that kind

19:37

of relationship thing, oh you all look

19:39

after me, I guess I'm here, can

19:42

actually cost people tens of thousands of

19:44

dollars or have a huge amount. So before

19:46

going into this, people should try and

19:49

feel energized about taking the time to

19:51

go shop, booking that extra appointment and

19:53

you're right, it is business, hey? Yeah

19:55

and look, I'm not Bagging on

19:57

anyone at your bank because they are.

20:00

There to serve you but also in other

20:02

institutions. Other lenders with a better deal for

20:04

you are there to serve you as well

20:06

and you can build your relationships with them

20:08

up. So it's a it's really shop away

20:10

yeah you don't have about tom ago. I

20:12

also felt a little not embarrassed but I

20:14

felt quite exposed when I was going from

20:16

my mortgage because they do ask you about

20:18

how much you earn. I do look at

20:20

you like your highness but I I I

20:22

actually there was a time and and a

20:24

moment where I sit until to myself thing

20:26

on a minute. I'm. About to be

20:28

making you a lot of different and giant extras.

20:30

So like you I do. you like his mouth.

20:32

I came here. you're that. You're just as much

20:34

shopping for me as well. And I think the

20:37

though the way to tie the power back is

20:39

doing exactly what you're saying Thomas actually shopping around

20:41

you know and and I know I know for

20:43

it from friend who sits Amigos height you know

20:45

when your mortgage sun comes up or were you

20:47

when you better effects like this the top like

20:50

you've got the biceps the bigger have a bank

20:52

someone on your business don't always think it's that

20:54

way the other way round. Yeah so so this

20:56

is imbalance of power that. Actually, we need to

20:58

take that back. We're We don't want to

21:00

be in a place where we're We're just

21:02

like all that's the way it is and

21:04

where to go with no actually, we have

21:06

leavers to pull. And. Again, that's

21:08

why we're talking about their but we also

21:11

have friends Now this is what I learned

21:13

that com as as loud as tell you

21:15

guys about. okay be taken by the power.

21:17

that imbalance is really hard but they're these

21:20

guys called mortgage brokers. Now.

21:22

Mortgage brokers are actually financial advisors who

21:24

specialize in mortgages. And these guys what

21:26

they do. And there's there's There are

21:28

a lot of them around the country

21:31

now, actually, and ten years ago, they

21:33

weren't so many neither, and others lots

21:35

and sinker. these guys as your personal

21:37

shrimpers. And

21:39

came to trust him. There your personal

21:41

shoppers. Well you can see what they

21:44

come back with these rights and you

21:46

can shop around for them to. Mccain.

21:49

You're You're not hooked into working with one

21:51

mortgage broker? You. Can actually supper

21:53

and find one who communicates with that a

21:55

well with you. Who who gets to what

21:57

you're after, Who understands you doesn't stop. Your

22:00

head you know that are. You can ask

22:02

them what questions but basically they go out

22:04

and they look at all the different lenders

22:06

or a handful of lenders. They probably won't

22:09

look at all of them, but a look

22:11

at a handful of lenders and come back

22:13

to you with the best deals that they

22:15

find out there. Okay, so you actually be

22:17

free to typically to amazon. Yeah.

22:19

You don't have to pay your mortgage broker to work

22:21

for you because they get paid on planes will some

22:23

damn about his. That's exactly right. And I got here.

22:26

So. When I when

22:28

I was working for the banks over in

22:31

the in the states my customers were mortgage

22:33

brokers and so we are paying them in

22:35

order to bring in business business. That's right,

22:37

bringing borrowers and to give them an Eod

22:39

the best deal in the zone as a

22:42

whole way that they get paid So you

22:44

it really a mortgage broker is in your

22:46

corner and should be able to find you

22:48

the best deal and if they don't if

22:50

there's another one that find you a better

22:53

deal than you can go go with them.

22:55

Okay so again there's all this shopping. Around

22:57

the Edges way of taking back our power

22:59

and making really good financial decisions in space

23:01

suffering or as a grace a grant of

23:03

us on because. When

23:05

I an automated a lot of people like me as well.

23:07

When you look into by First house or you first home.

23:10

Just. So foreign to the concepts of all the

23:12

things that are going on and just kind of

23:14

think that face value is how things work out.

23:16

Ah, it's it's at one hundred and it's it's

23:18

not the case. And when it comes to mortgages,

23:21

And even with banks and leanings, I

23:24

had the I did a mortgage were

23:26

all created equally, but that's that's not

23:28

the case of this. Now know things

23:30

are not what they seem. Yeah, and

23:32

if it all seems that they're so

23:35

that's one of the myth that we

23:37

need to bust. Heard that all of

23:39

these products can mortgage is a product.

23:41

Kiwi Saver funds are products of that.

23:43

They're all the same. And that's

23:45

a myth. They're actually quite different. Now

23:48

it's hard to sort of unpacking how

23:50

they're different and once. But that's another

23:52

reason why we do these tools and

23:54

on sorted so you can actually see

23:56

what the impact is gonna beat you

23:58

when you're making or. mortgage repayments

24:00

over all that time. Like how

24:02

much of a difference is this going to make if you

24:05

get a mortgage, let's say that's at 6.5% then it's 7%

24:07

or even 7.2 or 7.5. How

24:14

big a difference is that? It's actually huge. It's

24:17

actually going to impact your

24:19

repayments every week, fortnight

24:21

or month whichever one you

24:24

choose. You know what, Tom, the

24:26

thing I find fascinating and some people don't know

24:28

it and people who are looking to get a

24:30

mortgage, there's so many different ways of stacking or

24:33

playing with your mortgage. You don't have to have

24:35

your full amount sitting in one account and having

24:37

to pay that off over a term at a

24:39

certain rate. You could split your mortgage and have

24:41

it at a different rate and do a whole

24:44

lot of different things with it. I don't know

24:46

if the banks were the ones that suggested that

24:48

for me or whether it was our mortgage broker

24:50

but I'd want to go back to the broker for

24:52

a sec because I think if anyone was sitting there

24:55

right now and was thinking, okay,

24:57

this is the house, there's houses, it's time to get

24:59

on the ladder, I think going

25:01

to sort it is one great step but you

25:03

bringing the mortgage broker into this is another really

25:05

good step because they can find different ways of

25:07

getting money for you, right? Whether it be a

25:09

loan from your parents that sit off to the

25:11

side or gifted money, they could find a whole

25:13

lot of different things to help get your amount

25:15

up should you need that. If

25:18

that's the thing that you're kind of lacking in, they can help you with

25:20

different ways of putting your

25:22

mortgage out so it might be ones on a certain

25:24

rate but only for a year and

25:26

then the rest is for four years and that's for

25:29

much higher rate, interest rate. This is actually

25:31

a mark where it gets really complicated because it's

25:33

going to sound like, hey, there's tons of different

25:35

and there are tons of different ways you can

25:37

configure it. But let's go back

25:39

to what we're trying to achieve here. We

25:41

are trying to borrow

25:44

money, establish a home and

25:46

pay as least

25:48

interest as possible. There's different ways of

25:50

doing that and we're talking about those

25:52

levers. Make

25:55

sure you're not borrowing too much. Make sure you have

25:57

the best rate and then there's that term part. too,

26:00

which you want to make sure is

26:02

right for you, is not too

26:04

far out there. The longer it is,

26:06

the more expensive this thing gets. All

26:11

these strategies are about containing

26:13

your costs and actually

26:15

trying to get through this thing with

26:17

the least money going out the door

26:19

so that we can conserve our well-being

26:21

for all the other things that we

26:23

want to do in life. I

26:26

was searching for mine and maybe Mark, maybe

26:28

you were in a similar boat to me, but with the mortgage

26:31

broker itself, I

26:33

guess I was looking for a hustler and

26:36

I think I found one and that's really what I was looking

26:38

for. I spoke to a couple of people but

26:40

I felt like they were ticking every box but it wasn't

26:43

necessarily helping me get forward and I found a

26:45

mortgage broker who came across as like

26:47

a hustler the way that they were working and he was moving

26:49

but that was the one thing that got me across the line.

26:52

I love a hustler too, broker. So how was that? Was that

26:54

a good thing? It was great that I got a hustler. It

26:57

was so important to stop rough. Somebody could really get

26:59

it done for you, right? Yeah, but I felt like

27:01

I was doing the wrong thing. Once again,

27:03

with the banks, I was shopping around once again to

27:05

try and find the right person or the right shirt

27:07

or my mould but you just have to take the

27:10

time to go and find what works for you to

27:12

be able to make it work. Yeah, and when you

27:14

find that person, you can see if they're really doing

27:16

a good job for you and if they are, if it's

27:18

a good fit, then you can really get some great things

27:20

done, right? I tapped them up

27:23

for it. Some people though who did actually, he

27:25

talked about having the mortgage and the terms but

27:27

they were separated. I

27:30

still don't really understand why I've got them split at

27:32

the bank but it sounds like a good idea. Why

27:34

do people split it? Why is that the

27:36

personal question? Okay, so this is why I

27:38

wanted to bring us back to what is

27:40

it we're trying to achieve here, right? What's

27:43

the outcome? You want to pay less interest.

27:45

It's that simple. Okay, so what

27:48

happens when you

27:50

fix a rate, we

27:52

want two things. We want those repayments

27:54

to be predictable and steady, right? Because

27:57

there are two things that

27:59

can happen. rates that are variable, they

28:01

change all the time and thatís actually kind

28:03

of hard to work with because that means

28:05

your repayments will change all the time as

28:08

well or rates that are fixed over

28:10

long periods of time up to say five

28:12

years here. So predictable

28:15

payments for the next five years, it sounds good, right?

28:17

Because you know what itís going to be and you

28:19

can plan your life around it. Now

28:21

when we fix them, thereís

28:24

usually some restrictions about

28:26

paying more, repaying

28:28

that a

28:31

bit more in order to reduce. Again

28:33

our tools show that even if you add just

28:35

a little bit to your repayments, you can actually

28:38

take down your mortgage that much quicker. But

28:41

when you fix a rate, thereís

28:43

limits to how much you can do that. Theyíre

28:45

actually much higher than people understand. You

28:48

could actually with some lenders pay as much

28:50

as 20% more to your

28:52

repayments without having any difficulties at all and

28:54

a lot of people donít know that. So

28:56

you need to check with your

28:58

lender there. But the reason for

29:00

splitting it is that when your

29:03

repayments are fixed, when you make a deal

29:06

with the bank that youíre going to keep that

29:08

same repayment over five years or something like

29:11

that, in order to be able to change

29:14

those repayments for at least part of

29:16

it and take down part of your

29:18

mortgage that much quicker, basically they split

29:21

it. Weíll put part of it

29:23

on a variable rate and part of it

29:25

on a fixed rate. So the fixed rate

29:27

part is really predictable. The variable rate part,

29:29

you can slam it with extra money and

29:31

bring it down and actually save lots. So

29:33

it really depends when you

29:36

guys split your mortgage on whether youíre actually doing

29:38

that. On that variable part,

29:40

the strategy is usually to actually

29:42

take it down that much quicker. Do

29:45

you actually take that on? Thatís a

29:48

lot. No, no, thatís good. And

29:50

I donít know if my explanation

29:52

was great. But again, on

29:55

R-Tool, on Sorted, you can actually see what

29:57

youíre doing because you can split your mortgage.

30:01

on the calculator and you can see is this

30:03

actually helping me to pay less

30:05

in interest or not? That is the key

30:07

question to keep in mind. I

30:09

think it may become easier if

30:11

I explain from where I come from with

30:13

how I've split mine. So Brooke, I've got

30:15

a colossal chunk right now that is fixed

30:17

right and it means that I know exactly

30:20

how much money I have to pay each

30:22

month to pay that bit off. But that

30:24

doesn't change. Then I have a certain amount,

30:26

a smaller

30:29

amount of that full mortgage, a smaller

30:31

amount of doesn't belong in that lot. It doesn't belong

30:33

as a part of them. It's slightly different. It's on

30:35

a floating rate so it goes up and down, up

30:38

and down. So what I'm trying to do with that

30:40

smaller amount, I have no restrictions of how

30:42

much money I can put on that. So if I

30:44

have a good month, I might put heaps on it

30:47

and I don't get penalized from the bank. But if

30:49

I have a bad month, I know that I'm gonna

30:51

have to pay whatever it is, wherever the interest rate

30:53

has taken it, I'm gonna have to follow it and

30:55

pay at least that amount. So it just

30:57

stops me getting a hand slap. It

30:59

stops me having to pay a penalty for having

31:01

extra cash that I might be able to throw

31:03

in my mortgage and that's how I stack my

31:05

mortgage out. One that I don't have to care about and know

31:07

that it's gonna go on forever and don't even look at and

31:10

then a smaller one that I can actually have a good fight

31:12

with, spar with through that month depending on how much money I

31:14

make. So I love this because

31:16

a lot of times incomes are

31:18

not steady. They

31:20

go up and down, up and down and when you

31:22

have those good months, when you're able,

31:24

every time you're able to put more than what

31:27

the interest rate requires, you are taking down that

31:29

mortgage that much. Oh you love it Tom, great.

31:31

I should be married to you. My wife hates

31:33

it. She goes, we could be going on holiday

31:35

with that money. I'm like, hey, we'll get to holidays but

31:37

this is my chance about to throw it out. But that's

31:40

that lifestyle thing right there you were talking

31:42

about. You want to try and work a

31:44

system out of those three things that we're

31:46

thinking about. You've got to try and work

31:48

it so that you can still have your lifestyle and it suits how

31:50

you get paid. Yeah, precisely. But every

31:52

time you're able to do that much more,

31:55

you're restructuring the whole thing more in your

31:57

favor and less in the favor of

31:59

the lender. So you made a deal and

32:02

that's cool but you can bring it

32:04

down that much quicker. And I got

32:06

to say I've come across a lot

32:08

of mortgage brokers and even lenders who

32:10

are actually actively helping their borrowers to

32:13

do exactly that, to actually finish up

32:15

quicker because they can see that their

32:17

customers are happier. They can see that their well-being

32:19

is going up and they want to... Most of

32:21

the people who are selling products actually

32:23

want to make the world a better place

32:26

through their products and even mortgages count. They're

32:28

helping people get into homes. But you will

32:30

find people who will help you finish up.

32:32

I think one of our questions that we

32:34

took through to ask was the idea of

32:37

how to beat the mortgage. And

32:39

that's kind of... I feel like we're in that stage

32:41

right now, right? Yeah, more than a month. I didn't

32:43

even have one and I feel like I'm in the

32:45

fight. Well, your example is

32:48

great. I love it. Just splitting

32:50

it and then on that

32:53

part of your mortgage where the interest rate

32:55

is going up and down, when you have

32:58

those better months, slamming that much harder is

33:00

actually winning. That's what winning looks like. But

33:03

using a tool like ours is how you can

33:05

score. Like sometimes you can't tell if you're winning.

33:07

How long is this thing going to take? I

33:09

don't feel like it. And so

33:11

we're actually charting out on

33:14

a burn-down chart exactly how

33:16

much shorter it's becoming by

33:18

doing exactly that. It'd

33:20

be great, Mark. Sometimes you could

33:22

run the numbers and say, because I did it

33:24

that way, how much actually did I save in

33:27

interest? And these are the tools that sort of...

33:29

I'm telling you, it's tens of thousands of dollars

33:31

every time you do that. Have a good month

33:33

and plan it towards that. And

33:36

again, it's about our well-being, right? It's about

33:38

the well-being of ourselves and those we live

33:41

with and those we care about who we're

33:43

close to. And those choices are

33:45

all about... But the more we're able to do

33:47

it that way, the more our future well-being is

33:50

really benefiting. Can we just unpack that

33:52

a little bit? Before our shift is,

33:55

what are the tools that are on

33:58

sorter.org to help with the mortgage? We've

34:01

got really good guides when

34:03

people are just getting started because the

34:06

big thing about getting a mortgage as

34:08

you guys know is really getting that

34:10

deposit together. When

34:13

we're borrowing for a home, we don't borrow

34:15

the whole amount. Usually

34:22

a typical mortgage is you come in with 20% and then

34:24

borrow the 80% from the bank.

34:28

That's really an optimal balance.

34:31

Then if things happen, you've

34:33

got some buffer there, you've

34:35

got some money in

34:37

the house. Some people will borrow even

34:39

more and put down even less. There are some

34:41

programs that help people get on the housing ladder

34:44

where they just put 5% down

34:46

and borrow 95%. But that's

34:48

a lot riskier. That's a lot- But people

34:50

can't get on like that. Yes. This

34:53

is really important to know that if there

34:55

are programs to help people get on the

34:57

housing ladder. But again, they have

34:59

to make sure that this fits what

35:02

they need and their well-being too because

35:04

borrowing too much, we know that can

35:06

get you overextended and actually might not.

35:10

You need to run the numbers basically. Unsorted,

35:12

we've got this mortgage calculator. It shows

35:14

all the rates that are available in

35:16

the market. But we also have this

35:18

suite of guides which really get you

35:21

started. How to use KiwiSaver for

35:23

a first home. How to save

35:25

up a deposit. How to shop around for

35:27

a mortgage. How much can I borrow? These

35:29

are all the titles of guides that we

35:32

have on there that are really about financing

35:34

a home. They're not all

35:36

about the ins and outs of home

35:38

buying, how it all works,

35:40

whether something is a freehold or not.

35:43

But it's all about the financing, the

35:45

mortgage part, managing that mortgage. When you're

35:48

getting ready to refinance,

35:50

to remortgage your home

35:53

and get on a new rate, we've

35:55

got a guide for that too. We've really tried to

35:57

line up a lot of things to get. people

36:00

towards making really informed decisions. And it's free. Can I

36:03

just say and you guys that you're not backed by

36:05

anyone like this is just this is a free this

36:07

is I think that's important because I think when we

36:10

even even the conversations around mortgage brokers like you're always

36:12

working at hang hang on a minute. What's in it

36:14

for? What is why are you doing this? You know,

36:16

we're a bit untrusty especially when it comes to house

36:19

buying But I think that's healthy that is that's all

36:21

right. Like you want to ask people Well, how do

36:23

you how do you make money out of this? You

36:25

know, what is the deal but it's

36:27

also it needs to be a little bit more like an

36:29

adult to adult sort of sort of thing Okay,

36:31

you get something and I get something out of

36:33

it and we're making a deal But with sorted

36:36

the greatest thing is and I love not having

36:38

to sell Anything. Yeah, this

36:40

is a taxpayer funded service That's

36:42

there in order to help people make

36:45

better long-term decisions with their money. Come

36:47

on This is

36:49

perfect timing for me because I got a text this

36:51

morning I said this from my bank refix your home

36:53

loan rate before you automatically move to floating rate. Whoo

36:57

It's the perfect time to have this conversation what

36:59

they don't. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. It's why you need to

37:01

be on sorted Okay

37:05

like that and You're

37:08

in that suspicious place. You're like hang on

37:10

a second Is this one is

37:12

one is it these days you have to ask is

37:14

it for real, right? So you might as well talk

37:16

to them directly But to and say hi, it's not

37:19

a good deal for me or not And it's and

37:21

it used to be hard hard to tell but these

37:23

days you can actually run the numbers and actually Your

37:26

bank will help you run the numbers actually

37:28

and you'll be able to see whether it's

37:30

a good deal or not Remember what they

37:32

what they want as a lender what they

37:34

want is a steady stream of repayments over

37:36

time Right. That's that's

37:38

what makes the money. They're not interested

37:40

in your house, but you are

37:42

like Yeah, yeah,

37:45

they basically want a predictable stream of money

37:47

That's way that's why they look at how

37:49

much of a deposit you have. What's your

37:51

income like? Is it steady? Will you be

37:53

able to make these repayments, right? but after

37:55

that once you're a customer and can can

37:57

do that then it's really about Well,

38:00

is this better for me or isn't

38:03

and they can help you see. Absolutely.

38:06

We have a little bit more time on this show.

38:08

We can come back to anything, but I did want

38:10

to just take an opportunity to ask some quick questions

38:13

from the shifters. We've got

38:15

to get through quite a few so that we can almost

38:17

treat this like a power round. Okay. And

38:20

obviously Tom, we also know if you can't

38:22

answer something, you'll say so it's all. I

38:24

will. Yeah. First

38:27

question. This is from OG Munchkin. What a

38:29

name. Please

38:31

explore lending surrounding kit set and

38:34

rebuilt homes. Is there any

38:36

ficado on that? Yeah.

38:39

So in general,

38:42

many lenders will not lend

38:44

on a home that is

38:46

not, that can be

38:48

transported or moved like that.

38:51

Like it needs to be

38:53

stationary in the ground. So then

38:55

it gets a little bit. So

38:57

get tired of the lending of those tiles of homes. Why

39:01

they're so cheap to make and they're great. The

39:06

house always wins, right? They all are.

39:08

No, it's not. It's actually not about that.

39:12

If you think about it, it's a completely

39:14

different product. I noticed sometimes they treat them

39:16

a little even more like vehicles because they're

39:18

like the tiny houses and things like that.

39:22

Or there are other ways you can borrow

39:24

in order to pay for those

39:27

than a mortgage. Okay. Cool.

39:30

Next question from... Traditional mortgage. Yeah. Jamila,

39:33

sorry. From Jamila, outline the difference

39:36

between a home loan scheme and a

39:38

first home loan grant, please.

39:41

Yeah. Happy to do that. So

39:43

these are two different programs that

39:46

come through Kangaora and you

39:48

can go to their website to learn more. First

39:51

home loan scheme is the

39:53

one that we touched on before where it's

39:55

a government program that allows you to have

39:57

a lower deposit for 5%. and

40:00

borrow up 95%. So that gets

40:03

you on the housing ladder sooner.

40:05

You are borrowing more so

40:07

it is riskier so you want to make sure this

40:10

is right for you but it allows people

40:12

to not have to wait as long and

40:15

to get as high of a deposit and they're able

40:17

to get and then there's a bunch of pre-reqs that

40:19

come with that one too though right? Yep,

40:22

yep. It's not available for everyone. There

40:24

are income levels that used

40:26

to be house price levels that so

40:28

you need to check your eligibility. The

40:30

grant is when you have been in

40:33

KiwiSaver at least three years and

40:36

you can get

40:38

a grant from the government in order

40:40

to help you get on that housing

40:42

ladder and so you can get up

40:44

to $5,000 if you're buying an existing

40:48

home but up to $10,000 if you're building

40:50

a new home and these

40:54

are grants that the government wants to build new

40:56

homes. We have a housing shortage here and so

40:58

these grants are there to help people and that's

41:01

per person per borrower. So for example if you're

41:03

there with your partner you could get up to

41:05

$20,000 if you're building a new home if you've

41:10

been in KiwiSaver say for five years. Wow.

41:12

Okay so it's worth looking at these programs.

41:14

I'm really glad we were able to cover

41:16

that. Love that. Chloe Debaty said and he

41:18

just got the text so this

41:20

will be a quick one. How to calculate whether fixed or

41:22

floating is better. So would you go

41:25

to your bank and talk? Would you use

41:27

the tools from Sword Art as well? Yep.

41:29

Again I always want to bring us back

41:31

to what we're trying to achieve. We're trying

41:33

to make this whole process

41:36

cheaper for us over time.

41:38

So if fixed if splitting your mortgage will

41:40

do that has you paying less in interest

41:43

and again you can see it on our

41:45

calculator or other mortgage calculators out

41:47

there then it sums up. If it's not

41:49

doing that for example on that

41:51

variable rate if you're just paying that variable rate

41:53

all the time and not flowing extra money towards

41:55

it which is the strategy in order to pay

41:58

less to interest if you're not able to... do

42:00

that, then maybe splitting is

42:02

not the thing for you. The

42:04

objective is to pay less in interest.

42:06

If we are, great, and

42:08

finish the mortgage earlier. The

42:10

more we can do that, the better. Okay,

42:13

great. These are really good. There's only a few

42:15

more. I know this is a loaded question. Nikita

42:17

asked, how to pay more

42:19

money on principal instead of paying crazy amounts in

42:21

interest? The

42:24

thing about a mortgage is we

42:27

have steady payments over many decades,

42:29

pretty much. They can fluctuate a

42:31

bit by interest rate and all

42:33

that. What happens in a mortgage,

42:35

and you can see this on our calculator,

42:37

is at the beginning of the mortgage, when

42:39

you're starting off, most of that money is

42:41

going towards interest and not towards

42:43

principal, which is the amount you borrow to

42:45

repair it. Towards the

42:47

end of the mortgage, you are paying much

42:50

more towards principal and bringing it right down

42:52

and much less towards interest. That's

42:54

the way mortgages work. That's

42:57

the way they amortize over time. Her

42:59

question, how to pay less in interest,

43:02

it's every time you make a repayment

43:04

and you make that extra repayment, it

43:06

goes towards interest and retires that amount

43:09

over time much more quickly.

43:11

You'll be able to see how much you

43:13

save, if you look on our tool, for

43:15

example, how much you save in interest because

43:17

you're flowing that extra money right at it.

43:20

Think of it like a fire hose. You're just

43:22

shooting at it and putting out that fire

43:24

there over time. You want to put it

43:26

out as soon as possible. It's going to

43:28

take decades, but you want to get started

43:30

and you want that extra water going towards

43:32

it. Perfect. A couple more, because I love the

43:34

shifters. Jesse Mo82 said, what are

43:36

the benefits of using the equity from current

43:38

mortgage to invest in another property for rent? We've

43:44

got the question, shifters. Come on. So

43:46

equity is how much of your

43:49

home that you actually own. For

43:51

example, when you come in, let's say your home is $100,000

43:53

and you've come in with

43:56

$20,000 and borrowed 80. $20,000

44:00

is the amount that you

44:03

own, right? And so as you're repaying, you own more

44:05

and more and more of this house. They didn't say

44:07

at a certain point it's going to be 50-50, right?

44:11

But at the same time, the value of your house

44:13

will hopefully go up over time more or less. And

44:16

that also increases the amount that you own

44:18

because it's become worth more.

44:20

Now at a certain point, you can

44:23

borrow against that and you can use that

44:25

to buy another home, okay?

44:27

So it can be a rental property or a home that

44:29

you want to move into and then rent out the other

44:31

one. And so that's the strategy

44:34

that people use in order to get

44:36

multiple properties and to have rental properties.

44:39

Most landlords in this country, they have one

44:42

other property and that is

44:44

sort of an income stream for them.

44:46

And many times it's people who have

44:48

finished working and that

44:50

supports them in retirement.

44:53

So there's not that many

44:55

people who have tons of properties around here.

44:58

Most landlords have just one extra one. But

45:01

that's pretty much the strategy. Build

45:03

equity, borrow against that equity and

45:06

buy another one. So instead

45:08

of turning up to buy this

45:10

new house, you got your first

45:13

house, you turned up with $20,000 of

45:15

that $100,000 and then you slowly built up that

45:17

equity and you've made more money on it. Instead

45:19

of turning up to buy the second house as

45:21

a rental, you're actually turning up with equity as

45:23

an amount rather than a $20,000 or

45:26

that you'd be bringing in for the first one.

45:29

Yes, precisely. And so the more equity

45:31

you have, the more leverage

45:33

you can get, the more you can borrow

45:35

and do. It's basically the more

45:38

options you have. I don't want

45:40

to say that that's always a great idea because

45:42

people overextend themselves that way. They

45:45

take on more debt, things

45:47

change, their circumstances change, relationships break down,

45:50

all sorts of things can happen

45:52

and they can get themselves into trouble. So it's

45:54

not the best thing for everyone, but that's the

45:56

way that works. I'm carrying on the theme from

45:59

the last podcast. Gordon would like to know whether they

46:01

get half of the second rental as well if you break

46:03

up. You

46:07

don't have to answer that. Fellows,

46:10

remember about relationship property, right?

46:13

So, when you're a couple, you can build that

46:15

much more wealth together. Whether you do or not

46:17

is up to you, but you can, right? Because

46:19

there's more than one of you. And

46:22

so, during that time, you know,

46:24

whatever wealth you built up is

46:26

relationship property that gets split

46:28

up. You nailed that, man. That was

46:30

really good answers. Yeah, that was good. A little

46:33

power. Power segment from the shifters. Thank

46:35

you so much, Tom. I don't think... I

46:37

feel like we've covered most things that we wanted to cover in this

46:39

first podcast. Was there anything else you want to give us, something to

46:41

leave with, a tip that we should all know? Let's

46:45

see, a tip that we should all

46:47

know. Yeah, I really... I'll

46:49

try to simplify it to those

46:51

three levers. We

46:54

have a lot more power than we think we have.

46:56

So again, it's the amount, limiting

46:59

how much you're borrowing, the rate,

47:02

trying to find the cheapest money out there

47:04

in the deals that you're making, and the

47:06

term. Watch the term. If

47:10

it gets too long, that fire keeps

47:12

going on for that much longer and

47:14

becomes that much more difficult to put

47:16

out. And so really, those are the

47:18

levers that you can change in order

47:20

to tip it and restructure the entire

47:22

mortgage experience more in your favor as

47:25

opposed to just in the favor of

47:27

the lender. Okay? Take

47:29

back that power. Go shift nations. I'll say,

47:31

this wasn't a conversation I thought I'd be

47:33

as interested in because I don't have a

47:36

mortgage. But what I've learned

47:38

today, some of the other big things is this is

47:40

one of the big decisions in life. So

47:42

it's good to think that through,

47:44

maybe even where your relationship's at, where your

47:47

life's at. You know, you can't forecast

47:49

everything. We're not fortune tellers, but maybe forecast

47:51

what that's going to look like because that

47:53

will affect this big decision and this process.

47:56

You've kept coming back to, you

47:58

know, let's come back to this. This is

48:00

going to be yours. This is your home." And

48:03

I love that. I like the

48:05

idea of like being encouraged to

48:07

shop, being encouraged to, you know, if

48:09

you don't like the energy on the other end of

48:11

the line, it's okay to say goodbye and try again

48:13

another day, you know, like we

48:15

have more power than maybe we think. So that's been

48:17

a huge take out for me. So awesome chat. Thank

48:20

you. Yep. And you

48:22

have more support than you think

48:25

as well. You know, we talked about

48:27

those government programs, but we also talked

48:29

about financial advisors who specialize in mortgages,

48:31

you know, mortgage brokers. And

48:34

these... Find a good one. Find

48:36

a good one. It's in your corner. Can find

48:38

you the best deal. Can give you great advice

48:40

of how to take this mortgage down, how to

48:42

have the best experience of it in order so

48:44

that you can prioritize the well-being if you're a

48:47

foreigner. And let's not forget, let's not forget too,

48:50

the biggest advocates to help us out there saw

48:52

it. So you're allowed to say that, Tom. You're allowed

48:54

to say that. It's free and all these tools are

48:56

there to be able to do that. I'm going to

48:58

be leveraging this podcast with mine. I just want to

49:01

let you know. I'll say, hey, listen, I can do

49:03

a little promo on the podcast. We've got my followers

49:05

now, you know, we knocked that down 10,000. No,

49:08

I'm kidding. Thank you, Tom. Amazing. Thanks

49:10

so much, man. And Sorted. Love

49:13

you guys. Sorted. Sorted.

49:16

Want to be debt free? sorted.org.nz has

49:18

the tools and guides to help

49:20

me. And it's free. It's

49:23

free.