0:02

Welcome to the Moth Podcast. I'm Leigh

0:04

Ann Gulley, your host for this episode and Director

0:07

of Development at The Moth. As

0:09

a fundraiser, I think a lot about the concept

0:11

of giving back, about what we can and

0:13

should do as members of a community, how

0:15

we can make sure that the things we value continue

0:18

to have a place in the world,

0:19

whether that's through volunteering, showing kindness

0:22

to the people around us, or supporting the organizations

0:24

we care about. Today, we're going

0:26

to share two stories that examine this idea

0:29

and look at what we get when we give back. And

0:32

we'll tell you a little bit about how you can help support

0:34

The Moth in its mission to create community and

0:36

build empathy around the world.

0:38

First up, we have Jim Beebe Woodard. He

0:40

told this story at a Burlington, Vermont, story

0:43

slam, where the theme of the night was Love Hurts.

0:45

Here's Jim, live at The Moth. As

0:52

an adult here, I would characterize

0:54

myself as a devout atheist. But

0:57

as a kid, I did grow up going to church. We

1:00

went to a really nice church, actually. It

1:03

wasn't super dogmatic, and it was really

1:05

invested in families and doing good in the community

1:07

and all the things church should do.

1:09

One of the ways that our church did that was, there

1:12

was always some sort of food drive going on, canned food

1:14

drive kind of thing. Very often, we

1:16

would have a Sunday where

1:19

all the kids in the

1:21

congregation would have some sort of canned

1:23

good. And at some point

1:27

during the service, the

1:29

kids would come up onto the chancel

1:31

in front of the sanctuary, and they would have their canned goods,

1:33

and they'd put it in a box, and the minister would bless it. It

1:35

was all nice, and it was a nice way for kids to learn a

1:37

little bit about giving and

1:39

taking care of others in the community. For

1:41

a lot of years, when I was really young, my

1:44

folks would just give us something, and we'd go up and we'd put it in the

1:46

box, and that was that, and it was all good.

1:48

As we got a little older, my sister

1:50

and I, there was a Sunday where my

1:52

dad said, Hey, why don't you guys go

1:54

into the pantry, and why don't you pick

1:56

something? Why don't you pick something that you'd like to give to another

1:58

family in need?

1:59

And we're like, all right, so we go in. This is the

2:02

late 70s. It's suburbia. We have a wall

2:04

of canned goods and mac and cheese,

2:07

and my dad's old spice. And

2:09

so I'm looking at all these canned goods

2:11

and going through it. And I see there's a

2:13

can of mandarin oranges. And I was like

2:16

all about mandarin oranges. I loved them so much. I'd open

2:18

them up, eat the whole can. It was so good. So I kind of like,

2:20

slid that to the side.

2:24

I was going through, going through. And I come

2:26

upon this honkin can of veg-all.

2:30

Now, if you don't know what veg-all is, it's this really

2:32

horrible cut vegetables.

2:35

Can give vegetables aren't all that delicious anyway. They're really salty

2:37

and everything. But veg-all was particularly disgusting.

2:40

And it had lima beans. And we

2:42

just hated veg-all. So I was like, yep.

2:45

And so I grabbed the veg-all. And

2:47

meanwhile, my sister is having

2:49

her own parallel process. And she's like, I've got creamed

2:52

corn. And that was the thing she hated the most.

2:55

Out we go. I've got my

2:57

veg-all. My sister's got her creamed corn.

3:00

My parents

3:02

are putting the coats on for church. And my dad says, OK,

3:04

did you pick something out? I said, yeah.

3:06

He said, oh, OK. That's

3:09

what you want to bring to the families and see them? So

3:11

go to church. Go to the whole

3:13

thing. Put it in the box. Plus it gets

3:15

blessed by the minister. That's all good. So

3:19

this is the time in our life where Sundays were very

3:21

much a family day for us. And so typically after

3:23

church, my grandparents would come over.

3:26

And we would have some sort of like brunchy thing with pancakes

3:28

and eggs and stuff and just spend time together as a family. But

3:31

this particular Sunday was

3:34

what my mom liked to call it Sunday dinner Sunday.

3:36

And this was something she liked to do every couple months or

3:39

whatever. And Sunday dinner Sundays, just what

3:41

it sounds like, around 12, 31 o'clock

3:44

we had a Sunday dinner. And so it was

3:46

usually sort of more food. And

3:48

you'd stay in your church clothes. And it was all that stuff.

3:51

So this particular Sunday of

3:53

the aforementioned veg all creamed corn was

3:56

a Sunday dinner Sunday. And we

3:59

get back to the house. And my mom had left a roast

4:01

chicken in the oven when we left, so the house smells so

4:03

good. And there's chicken in the oven and all this

4:05

stuff, and nan and pops get there, and we're all psyched. And

4:09

we sit down to have dinner, and

4:11

my mom puts the chicken

4:13

down, and it's steaming, it's so yummy. And

4:16

I'm waiting, I'm waiting, and the rule was, of course, you don't touch

4:18

anything, you don't serve yourself, you don't even talk about

4:20

serving yourself until everyone's sitting at the table, and my parents

4:22

are still kind of buzzing around doing their thing. And

4:26

everybody's sitting down, my dad's finishing up, and

4:29

he brings over the last two dishes, and,

4:32

uh, I'm

4:35

so predictable. So,

4:39

he comes over, and my

4:41

sister gets a plate of cream corn. I

4:44

get a plate of veg all.

4:45

Uh,

4:51

for every test, there is a corresponding

4:54

lesson. Sometimes

4:58

the test comes before the lesson, and

5:01

sometimes the lesson is crystal clear. And

5:03

so very clearly my sister and I were like, oh

5:05

man. And the funny thing was with my folks,

5:08

this wasn't a punishment. It wasn't like we

5:10

were shamed a whole bunch and everything, and

5:13

they set it down, and my dad said, like, you

5:15

know, you thought this was good enough to give

5:18

to somebody else, is this

5:20

what you want? And it was like, you

5:22

know, so he was right. He

5:25

didn't want it. So we ate the veg all, we ate the

5:27

cream corn, no chicken. No,

5:30

but it was okay, it was okay. I

5:33

mean, it was awful, but it was okay. This

5:37

really is, though, a

5:40

lesson and a test that I have carried through my life.

5:43

Perhaps not so literally, a little

5:45

more metaphorically, but, and

5:49

I definitely encourage you to think of this as a test you can lay

5:51

over your own life. You can use veg all if you like,

5:53

but, am

5:56

I giving out what I wish to receive

5:59

back? And whether it's my words

6:02

or my deeds or my actions, my interactions

6:04

with my friends, my family, what

6:07

do I do at work, you know, am I doling

6:09

out veg all? Or

6:12

am I giving you my mandolin oranges? That

6:16

was Jim

6:21

B.B. Woodard. Jim

6:27

is a Connecticut native

6:28

and a 1989 graduate of the Greater

6:30

Hartford Academy of the Arts. After

6:32

attending UMass Boston, he spent the 1990s

6:35

in Boston working in nonprofit organizations,

6:37

providing advocacy and support to people

6:39

living with HIV and addiction. He

6:42

now lives a very quiet life in the woods of Vermont

6:44

with his husband Travis. Jim's

6:46

story reminds me so much of my childhood.

6:49

From a very young age, I was lucky to have

6:51

the chance to

6:52

experience the power of giving back. When

6:54

my grandfather ran the local community center where I grew up,

6:57

and whether it was helping to work bingo or serving

6:59

meals at a spaghetti dinner, I saw the deep

7:01

value in human connection, helping

7:03

others and having the chance to tell your story.

7:06

This all feels deeply connected to the work I

7:08

do at the mall. While most folks know

7:11

the mall through its podcast, radio hour

7:13

and live events, there is so much work

7:15

that happens behind the scenes to bring

7:17

the transformative power of storytelling all

7:20

over the world. Each year, through

7:22

our education, community engagement and

7:24

global programs, the mall helps individuals

7:26

feel seen, find their confidence, advocate

7:29

for themselves, conquer their fears and

7:31

so much more. If the

7:33

transformative power of storytelling has impacted

7:36

you or you would like to ensure it impacts

7:38

others, please make a donation to the mall today.

7:42

Text GIVE23 to 78679

7:45

to make a fully tax deductible donation and

7:47

help ensure our continued work to nurture empathy

7:50

and build community. Text GIVE23

7:53

to 78679 to give today. And

7:57

just a reminder, while we are huge fans

7:59

of all of our public radio partners, funds

8:02

raised through their giving drives go to support their

8:04

programming. Give today directly

8:06

to the Moth, where an independent nonprofit

8:09

and the support we get helps

8:10

to ensure the future of our work.

8:12

Our next story also touches on how

8:14

giving back can heal and build community. Richard

8:17

Cardillo told this at a New York main stage

8:20

where the theme of the night

8:21

was this way out. Here's Richard,

8:23

live at the Moth.

8:30

It's August of 1991, and

8:33

I'm living in this tiny little

8:36

sublet in the East Village. I

8:39

just turned 33, and this is the first

8:41

time in my life I'm living

8:44

in a place of my own. And

8:46

I'm feeling pretty lost and

8:48

pretty lonely. I had

8:51

recently left a Catholic monastery

8:54

where I had lived as a monk with

8:56

a vow of celibacy. I

8:58

kind of picked that vocation because I felt

9:00

I was always drawn to a life of service. But even

9:02

more importantly, at

9:05

the age of 16,

9:08

I figured out that I was gay.

9:10

One night, about three

9:12

weeks after I moved in, I went to make dinner, and

9:14

I realized I had no food in the house,

9:17

and I had no money. So I

9:20

obsessively kept checking the cabinets

9:22

in the kitchen for anything. And

9:24

all I kept coming up with was this half bag

9:27

of white flour, a

9:28

little bit of salt, and in the far

9:31

reaches of the top cabinet, interspersed

9:33

with all the soy sauce and ketchup packets,

9:36

was this little packet of yeast.

9:39

I looked at the side of the flour

9:42

bag and followed the directions,

9:45

and I made bread.

9:46

That began a decades-long

9:49

passion, and I threw myself into this

9:51

passion with a vengeance. I assumed

9:53

I was making so much bread that I couldn't eat it

9:55

myself, and I started giving it away to

9:58

family, to friends, to my colleagues. colleagues,

10:00

students, and their families, and I started

10:02

to feel really, really good about myself.

10:06

So much so

10:08

that on one Saturday night I decided to venture

10:10

out and try my luck at

10:13

meeting a guy.

10:14

And I

10:19

ended up at the car wash.

10:23

The car wash was the nickname for the back

10:25

room of a really seedy,

10:27

sleazy bar called the Spike

10:30

in the West Village. It had

10:32

these ceiling to floor plastic

10:34

strips just like a car wash that separated

10:36

it from the bar area. So there I am

10:39

in the back with my arms crossed feeling

10:42

so afraid and just scared

10:44

witless. All of a sudden this

10:46

handsome guy comes near me.

10:48

He has the most beautiful long

10:51

brown hair and these piercing

10:53

blue eyes. And he comes up next

10:55

to me and he goes to reach out

10:58

and I flinch and I jump.

11:00

And in the most beautiful southern

11:02

troll which I never learned how

11:05

to imitate, he

11:07

said, oh precious. What

11:10

in God's green earth are you so afraid

11:12

of?

11:13

That's how I met Peter.

11:17

We talked a little bit more, went to the bar. He kept

11:20

buying me beer after beer

11:22

and just drawing me out of myself. He

11:24

was just so easy to talk

11:27

to and he showed such interest in

11:29

me. He then guided me onto the dance

11:31

floor and even while we were dancing he

11:33

was talking away and listening intently

11:36

on everything I had to say. And he

11:39

finally asked me that question, want to come

11:41

home with me? And

11:43

I got afraid.

11:45

And I started making excuses. Nah,

11:48

you live on Avenue B, too far away,

11:50

too dangerous. I got to

11:52

work to mine. He gave me this big hug to

11:54

stop me and he drew me in. He

11:57

said, oh precious,

11:59

take a chance.

11:59

on me. The

12:02

next morning I woke up super

12:04

early to sneak the hell out of there and I

12:06

go into his living room and there he is completely

12:09

dressed and he was

12:11

insisting on escorting me back

12:13

to my apartment. Well that

12:15

clinched it. I was smitten. We dated

12:18

for about four months and then

12:20

right after that I moved in with him.

12:22

Pete was this force

12:25

of nature. He was this ardent

12:28

activist and he'd protest for so many

12:30

different causes. No nukes, a

12:32

cleaner environment,

12:34

the war machine to dismantle it,

12:36

anything. He was out on those front lines protesting

12:39

and marching and he would take me along with

12:41

him and I started to feel so alive when

12:43

we did this and he wanted to make the

12:46

center of our relationship hospitality.

12:49

So once a week we'd have this communal meal

12:51

in our apartment where we'd invite family, friends

12:54

and the centerpiece of all those meals was

12:56

the bread. And we'd share

12:59

with each other and we'd care with each other and

13:01

I'd look at all of this going on and

13:04

I reflected on how my life had changed

13:06

and I'm wondering how the hell

13:08

did I end up here and

13:11

I loved it. One time about

13:14

four years into

13:16

our relationship, all of a sudden Pete

13:18

got a bad case of a pneumonia.

13:26

Then he developed neuropathy in both

13:28

his legs and quickly after

13:30

that he started losing his eyesight.

13:33

We sort of saw the handwriting on the

13:35

wall. He tested and sure enough he

13:38

tested positive for the HIV AIDS

13:40

virus and he was

13:42

convinced he was going to fight this

13:45

to stay healthy. I

13:47

tried to take Pete the best way

13:49

I knew how but soon AIDS was affecting his

13:52

mental health as well. He had this horrible

13:54

opportunity to be able to get

13:58

a better life to Confection,

14:00

known as toxoplasmosis, it leaves

14:02

these lesions and scars on

14:04

your brain in the areas that affect

14:06

mood. And he was sinking into these deep,

14:10

deep depressions. And

14:12

he was cycling in and out

14:15

of psychiatric institutions. On

14:18

a sweltering hot August day

14:20

in 2012, I get ready for work.

14:23

I give Pete this prolonged kiss

14:26

goodbye. I

14:28

leave and go to work. And about noon,

14:30

I look at my cell phone and he's calling me. And

14:33

I answer it and I hear

14:35

all this wind and

14:37

all this traffic. And I just said, Pete, where

14:40

the hell are you? And he said, listen,

14:42

Richard, just wanted to call and let you

14:44

know how very much I love you. And

14:47

he hung up. I

14:50

didn't feel good about that phone call. So

14:53

much so that I decided to go home and

14:55

wait for him there. And

14:58

about three hours after that,

15:01

two police officers

15:04

were at my front door

15:06

and they informed me that Pete had decided to

15:09

jump from the George Washington Bridge. When

15:13

Pete took his life, a big

15:15

chunk of me

15:18

died with him.

15:20

I just stopped relating to

15:22

the world. I stopped working.

15:25

I didn't want to see family or

15:28

friends. I became a hermit

15:31

in my own apartment.

15:34

I was just this hollow solitary

15:37

shell.

15:39

About four months later

15:42

on this frigid, cold

15:44

December morning, I wake up to

15:46

make some food for myself and I realized

15:48

I have no food in the house. So

15:51

for the first time in over six

15:53

months, I made bread

15:55

and

15:58

I must have had the old habit. in

16:00

my mind because I made a lot

16:02

of bread. I made eight

16:04

baguettes and I ate

16:07

the tip off of one and looked

16:09

at the rest of them and knew that we're going to go stale.

16:11

So the next morning I forced myself

16:14

to put on my winter jacket, trudge

16:16

through the snow, go up Stanson

16:19

Street to the Bowery Mission. I go

16:21

inside the front door and automatically

16:23

the guy at the front desk puts his hand up. He

16:25

said, sorry, Department of Health rules. We

16:28

cannot accept food donations from

16:30

anybody. I turn around to leave,

16:33

walk over to the park on Stanton. I

16:35

turned around and I realized four

16:38

guys followed me out from the Bowery

16:40

Mission. One of

16:42

them comes right up to me and

16:44

he locks eyes with me and he

16:46

points at me

16:48

and he asked,

16:50

you got bread? I

16:54

opened the satchel with the baguettes, took them

16:56

out. I broke the bread, gave

16:58

it to each one of these men and

17:01

they devoured it

17:03

without saying a

17:05

word. I get up to leave,

17:09

that same man locks eyes with me again, looks

17:12

straight at me and asks, you

17:15

coming back? The

17:17

next Sunday I made eight sourdough

17:20

loaves and I bring them into

17:22

the park and they're already waiting for me.

17:24

And this week there was more talking

17:27

and there was more sharing. People

17:29

were connecting with their bread memories.

17:31

One guy said, I remember living down South

17:34

and my grandma would make this cornbread and a skillet

17:36

in the oven. I said, well, I make cornbread, I'll make you

17:38

that next week. Another guy said, I'd run

17:40

home to get there before sundown on

17:42

the Sabbath and I rip off a piece

17:44

of a challah and eat it and I said, well, I make challah bread.

17:47

I'll make that next week for you too as well. In

17:50

the ensuing weeks, there

17:52

were an awful lot more bread

17:55

requests. And

17:57

my moniker became Bread Man.

18:00

In the ensuing five months, we

18:02

started talking and laughing

18:05

and sharing more than bread. And

18:09

I

18:10

started to heal.

18:12

I became lighter.

18:15

I went back to work.

18:18

I started seeing family and friends again.

18:21

I even started laughing.

18:24

And it felt so good to be with a group

18:26

again. But

18:28

I'll tell you what the real

18:30

miracle was. In

18:32

the course of the five months, we

18:36

had created this wondrous,

18:40

sharing, giving, and

18:42

life-affirming community.

18:47

And Pete,

18:49

he would have loved it. Thank

18:52

you.

19:05

That

19:05

was Richard Cardillo. Richard is a lifelong

19:07

resident of the Lower East Side in Manhattan and

19:10

has been an educator and ardent activist for over

19:12

four decades. He still considers

19:14

himself more of a learner than a teacher, but

19:16

always a storyteller. Richard

19:18

is also a six-time Moth StorySlam winner.

19:21

If you'd like to see photos of the bread Richard baked,

19:24

go to themoths.org slash extras.

19:26

That's all for this episode. Remember,

19:29

if you want to help support the Moths mission, text

19:31

GIVE23 to 78679 to

19:35

make a fully tax-deductible donation and

19:37

help ensure our continued work to nurture

19:40

empathy and build community. And

19:42

a special shout out to our Moth members

19:44

and donors who have already made a commitment

19:46

to help advance our mission. From all

19:48

of us here at the Moth, thank you for listening.

19:51

And thank you for giving back in whatever way

19:53

you can.

19:55

Leanne Gellie is the Director of

19:57

Development at the Moth and has 20 years.

19:59

of experience fundraising for non-profits,

20:02

including many theaters in the off-Broadway

20:05

community. She currently resides in

20:07

the East Village with her husband and two

20:08

children, and is always on the search

20:11

for the city's best pasta. Richard

20:13

Cardillo's story was directed by Larry Rosen.

20:16

This episode of the Moth Podcast was produced

20:18

by Sarah Austin-Ginness, Sarah Jane Johnson,

20:20

and me, Mark Sollinger. The rest

20:23

of the Moth Leadership team includes Sarah Haberman,

20:25

Jennifer Hickson, Meg Bowles, Kate

20:27

Tellers, Marina Cloutier, Suzanne

20:30

Rest, Brandon Grant Walker, Leigh-Anne

20:32

Gulley, and Aldi Casa. All moth

20:34

stories are true, as remembered by the storytellers.

20:37

For more about our podcast, information on pitching

20:39

your own story, and everything else, go

20:41

to our website, themoth.org. The

20:44

Moth Podcast is presented by P.R.A.X., the

20:47

Public Radio Exchange, helping make public

20:49

radio more public at P.R.A.X.