0:00

Hey teachers! Are you looking for fun new

0:02

ways to create community in your school? Then

0:05

join the Moth Education Program for the

0:07

Moth Teacher Institute, or MTI. MTI

0:10

is a conference that brings together educators

0:12

who want to use storytelling techniques in their

0:15

classrooms and communities. MTI

0:17

will be held virtually this summer. Applications

0:19

are open now through June 4th. Visit

0:22

themoth.org backslash mti

0:24

to sign up.

0:39

From

0:39

PRX, this is the Moth Radio

0:41

Hour. I'm your host, Chloe Salmon.

0:44

In this episode, stories

0:46

of motherhood. Honestly, 1,000 episodes

0:50

probably wouldn't be enough to cover the experience

0:52

of mothering or being mothered. But

0:55

zooming in on each of its glorious parts

0:57

can be the best way of getting a sense of the

0:59

whole. And what better way to

1:02

honor than to listen? So

1:04

in this hour, you'll hear from four women who

1:06

meet motherhood in their own unique ways. Plus,

1:09

even a little conversation with my own mom. First

1:12

up is Maria Morris. She told this

1:14

story

1:15

in Jackson Hole, Wyoming, where we partnered

1:17

with Center for the Arts. Here's

1:19

Maria, live at the Moth.

1:24

I was 46 years old, never

1:26

married. I lived in Chicago.

1:29

I owned my own house. And

1:31

I had a fantastic career going. My

1:34

big indulgence was traveling to see

1:36

about 15 or 20 Bruce Springsteen shows

1:38

every year. I

1:44

had a little bit of FOMO, though. I

1:46

thought, maybe those people that say, I don't want

1:48

to die alone, are

1:50

right. So I

1:52

joined eHarmony. The first match

1:54

I got was a fellow named Andy. He

1:57

was a widower. He had a job as

1:59

a lawyer.

1:59

a software engineer. He had

2:02

three children. He lived in a little

2:04

nice suburb and he actually

2:07

mentioned Springsteen

2:08

in his bio. So

2:10

of course I pounced on him. And

2:14

it wasn't quite like that.

2:18

Our first day we went to a very

2:20

elegant restaurant. We had

2:22

the best time. He told me that his wife

2:25

Judy had died four years prior

2:27

and he'd been raising his kids on his own.

2:31

And it was just the best night.

2:33

We closed the place down. He drove me

2:35

all the way back to the city and when he

2:37

dropped me off he said,

2:38

would you like to go out again tomorrow? And

2:41

I was like, oh, okay. He said, how about

2:43

coming up to the house to meet my kids? And

2:46

I said to myself, I don't know

2:48

much about dating but I think that Frank's a rule.

2:50

Sure. I'll

2:53

meet him. So I get there

2:55

the next night and three

2:58

of them all lined up at the front door waiting

3:00

to shake my hand.

3:03

Cassidy was 12 at the

3:05

time and she was very reserved,

3:08

keeping an eye on me but very polite.

3:10

Honor

3:12

was this tiny wisp of a little kid.

3:15

He sat on my lap and drank an entire quart of wonton

3:17

soup by himself. And

3:19

Hannah was nine and

3:21

she wanted to show me everything in her room.

3:24

Her Polly Pockets, all her American girl

3:26

gear. And I said, after a while

3:28

I played with them and I was like, okay, I got to take

3:31

off you guys. And Hannah said to me, um,

3:33

do you think you could stay and help us

3:35

get ready for bed? I'm

3:38

like, come

3:40

on. What

3:43

does the matter with you? Are you trying to cue me

3:45

to death? And I drove

3:47

home. I'm like, I think I love

3:49

these people.

3:52

Our third date

3:55

was, it was either the next night or the night after

3:57

that. And Andy said, I'm going to ask you to stay and

3:59

help us get ready for bed.

3:59

I'm gonna ask you to marry me, but I'm gonna wait until enough time

4:02

has passed that you won't think I'm joking." And

4:06

I said, oh, what the hell? Just ask me. I'll

4:09

say yes.

4:12

So he asked me. I

4:15

said, yes, I'll marry

4:17

you. At

4:19

that point, I thought, maybe I should sell

4:21

some people in my real life about this. My

4:25

parents lived on the first floor of my two

4:27

flat in the city, and I hadn't even told

4:29

them I'd gone on a date. I had not

4:31

been on a date in more than 10 years.

4:35

So I tell my mom, I

4:38

met somebody and she's like, God, you think you know a person.

4:41

And my friends, I find out later,

4:43

were trying to stage an intervention. Everybody

4:48

was unsettled. Let's put it that way. And

4:51

so we got married six

4:53

months after we met. And

4:57

I moved to the suburbs,

4:58

into the big house, and

5:01

immediately I could feel the void that Judy had left. It

5:04

was deep and cold and quiet. I

5:09

just looked around and said, what is

5:11

my role here? What do I do? I

5:15

got the answer two months later when

5:17

the mortgage crisis struck and I got let

5:20

go from my job.

5:22

And I went

5:24

from a person who had always, obviously,

5:27

supported themselves and had a really

5:30

good thing going to being

5:32

financially dependent on somebody. And I

5:35

was a full-time stay-at-home stepmom.

5:38

I looked around and

5:41

I thought, you know, I have

5:43

never cooked raw chicken before. I

5:47

have never managed household finances.

5:49

And here I am, I'm in charge. I

5:51

googled, what do families eat for dinner?

5:54

And it turns

5:56

out it's not popcorn and red wine. So

6:04

one of those very first days I

6:06

was home alone, the kids are

6:08

at school, and I'm looking,

6:11

I'm like a detective with a marriage

6:13

license in lieu of a search warrant.

6:16

And I'm digging through drawers, like how did she

6:18

do this? How did she manage

6:20

finances, feed these people,

6:22

keep them clean and, you

6:26

know, relatively happy? How

6:28

did she care for Andy? How did she care for the kids?

6:31

And

6:32

in the drawer of the vanity in our bathroom

6:34

I found a black compact

6:36

of Lancome blush. And

6:38

I opened it and I could see the indent

6:41

where her finger had

6:44

rubbed it down. I

6:46

turned the compact over and the color

6:48

was a plum. It was the same

6:50

one that I had. And

6:53

under our bed I found the baby

6:55

books. And Judy

6:57

had taken such care to write every detail.

7:00

The first smile, their first

7:03

food that they liked, what they didn't like,

7:06

their first little noises, of course their first

7:08

steps.

7:09

I found out from that part

7:11

of my search that Cassidy, who was 12

7:14

then, she didn't sleep

7:16

for the first three years of her life.

7:19

And I was kind of glad I missed that era. But

7:25

I had time. That's all I had and

7:27

I dove in. I'm getting

7:29

kids out of bed. I'm making lunches. I'm driving

7:32

them to school. I'm sitting in the car line. I'm

7:34

just kind of

7:35

following along what other parents seem to do.

7:39

And it was a lot. And I realized

7:41

at a certain point, I'm not

7:44

sure I like this. I started

7:46

to panic, but I was so invested

7:48

in looking competent and secure

7:51

in my role that I didn't tell anybody.

7:54

So it just built and built and

7:57

the frustration grew. I was both overwhelmed.

8:00

and finding the whole thing just really tedious

8:02

at the same time. And it all

8:04

came to a head one day when

8:07

I was serving a corn

8:09

chowder that I had made from scratch,

8:12

okay? No powdered mixes

8:14

here. I was

8:16

ladling it into Hannah's bowl, and she looks at it,

8:20

and she's like, I'm not going to eat this.

8:23

And I responded in a way that I thought was

8:26

proportionate at the time. I took the

8:28

pot of soup, I walked to the sink,

8:30

I held it three feet higher than the sink, and

8:32

I dropped it. And I turned around, ran

8:35

upstairs, and I cried in the bathroom. Whoo!

8:40

And Andy came up, he's

8:42

like, I'm sorry. She's, hey,

8:44

that feels really bad. She's sorry. I

8:46

said, I think I'm in over my head. I'm not

8:48

good at this. I don't even like it. I'm

8:51

sorry. I don't want to do this anymore.

8:54

I got to go, and he's like, they're

8:57

there, they're

8:58

there. You're

9:01

doing a wonderful job. And I was like, job?

9:03

Did you hire me or marry me? This

9:06

is awful. I don't like this. And

9:10

he's like, well, what's so bad? I was like, well, take

9:12

the socks, okay? And

9:14

the laundry. Pairing up

9:17

little kids' socks is

9:19

a job that should be relegated

9:21

to people who have to do community service

9:24

in lieu of jail time. I settled down.

9:34

I

9:36

just got used to what I was

9:39

doing. Even though I'm still

9:41

bitter, I missed about 20 Bruce Springsteen shows

9:43

that first year. All my friends are out

9:45

there on tour, and I'm matching

9:48

socks.

9:52

I did eventually,

9:54

on another excursion into the cabinets, find

9:57

the key to the castle. It was in the form

9:59

of Judy's blue leucite recipe

10:01

box. She had

10:04

all the recipes for the Jewish foods that

10:06

the family loved and

10:08

I made it as a meal. I made the beef brisket,

10:11

I made bonsabal soup, I made noodle

10:14

kugel, I put it on the table

10:16

and everybody smiled. They were so happy.

10:19

They were like, you get

10:21

us. This is wonderful. And

10:24

I met other parents and I realized, you know,

10:27

I'm not a failure. This stuff is

10:29

hard. Everybody goes through stuff like

10:32

my coping mechanism was to take a bottle

10:34

of wine up to the laundry room in iron sheets and

10:36

pillowcases for an hour, but

10:38

everybody's got their thing.

10:44

I could even see myself rubbing

10:46

off on them a little bit. I busted

10:49

on her who was only six, singing

10:51

Born to Run. And

10:55

that first year, Christmas

10:57

fell right in the middle of Hanukkah and Cassie

10:59

said, let's call it Christmas cup. I'm like, yes.

11:02

And then we went to get a Christmas

11:04

tree and Hannah said, we can

11:06

bring that thing in the house, but it's gonna have blue lights

11:08

and we're calling it a Hanukkah bush. And I'm like, that's

11:11

perfect. It

11:13

was wonderful.

11:15

It was about

11:19

six or eight months after we were married

11:21

that I was helping Hannah get ready

11:24

for bed. And she said,

11:26

mumsy, is

11:29

there any way that you know that my mom can

11:31

come back someday? I

11:36

just, I wanted to say yes so bad,

11:40

but I said, no, honey.

11:42

And I am so sorry. We

11:47

cried. And then she said, well,

11:51

you're a pretty good mumsy. So

11:55

last August, Andy and I celebrated 13

11:57

years of marriage.

12:05

Thank you, it was all me. We've

12:10

just been, I don't know, 12 or 13 Christmas

12:12

cuz, two Bob Mitzvahs, some

12:15

door slamming. Andy

12:17

and I went to see Bruce Springsteen together on Broadway.

12:24

And when I think about it, I

12:26

hope Judy is both relieved

12:29

and proud of us. Thank you.

12:41

That was Maria Morris. She still

12:43

lives just outside of Chicago and is a

12:45

professional designer and installer

12:47

of perennial gardens. She's

12:50

happy to report that the whole family is still

12:52

doing great and even happier

12:54

to report that she'll be seeing Bruce Springsteen

12:56

in concert twice this year.

13:04

I asked all of our storytellers in this

13:06

episode to share the best advice their

13:08

mom ever gave them. Maria's

13:10

answer, live and let

13:13

live. Her advice for

13:15

her own kids, always try

13:17

your hardest, but please cut

13:19

yourself some slack when things don't go your way.

13:22

I can take you home.

13:31

In a moment, a standoff with

13:33

a Christmas turkey and dispatches

13:36

from the cat show circuit when

13:38

the moth radio hour continues.

13:52

Sometimes it's like someone took a knife, baby,

13:54

edgy and dull, cut a six inch valley

13:56

through the middle of my skull. The

14:02

Moth Radio Hour is produced by Atlantic Public Media

14:04

in Woods Hole, Massachusetts

14:08

and

14:14

presented by the Public Radio Exchange,

14:16

PRX.org.

14:20

This is the Moth Radio

14:22

Hour from PRX. I'm Chloe

14:25

Salmon. In this episode, stories

14:27

from and about moms. Our

14:30

next one was told at the Moths Community

14:32

Engagement Program Showcase in New York

14:34

City. Here's Pamela M.

14:36

Covington.

14:44

In Savannah, our holiday

14:47

meals were as bountiful as

14:49

our Victorian home.

14:51

We dine on baked fresh

14:54

salmon, oyster stuffing,

14:58

hand-picked crab patties, had

15:01

an assortment of things, and

15:05

the house, it was decked

15:08

festively from its

15:10

crown-molded ceilings down

15:13

to its glossy hardwood floors

15:15

and all points in between.

15:19

Ralph was dreamy living

15:23

with Watson. He

15:25

was so attentive with our two boys.

15:27

They were one and a half and nine. And

15:30

he was an excellent provider.

15:33

In fact, he saw to it that everything

15:35

in the house was always exactly the way

15:37

I wanted it and he was proud

15:40

to make it so.

15:44

What began as the ideal

15:46

domestic situation slowly

15:48

changed. Having

15:51

served in Vietnam before

15:53

we met, he

15:55

suffered with post-traumatic stress disorder

15:59

and was subject to the disease. subject to the

16:01

changes of a Dr. Jekyll and Mr.

16:03

Hyde. And

16:06

during one of his unpredictable

16:08

frenzies, when he hit me

16:10

in the face, I knew

16:13

I had

16:13

to leave for the sake of

16:16

my and my children's safety,

16:21

at any cost, emotional or financial.

16:25

So I left my middle class comfort

16:28

and fled to Jacksonville, a city

16:31

I'd only visited twice just for fun.

16:35

After five days wandering around

16:38

homeless, the only place

16:40

that I could afford for my kids and me

16:43

was a unit in a dilapidated

16:46

cement tenement

16:49

with no refrigerator,

16:52

no stove, no air

16:54

conditioning and no heat. The

16:56

little shabbity place was only

17:00

better than being on the streets. Those

17:03

piss-poor conditions made me feel

17:06

so bad, so

17:08

low, I felt insignificant. There

17:11

I was alone with two

17:13

children

17:14

in a strange city, broken

17:18

in every way imaginable.

17:23

But no matter what I

17:25

did, I could not let my children

17:27

see my breakage. For

17:29

them, I had to wear

17:32

a brave mask, even

17:35

though I was having a tough time providing

17:37

bare necessities.

17:40

I had to do whatever I had

17:42

to do for my children. My

17:45

children had never even gone to

17:47

bed hungry. And

17:52

I just had to provide

17:55

for them. It was no longer Watson and I, it

17:57

was just me and them. You

18:00

see I had run off to Jacksonville

18:03

without a plan and

18:05

that security in Savannah was behind

18:07

me Christmas was

18:10

just a week ahead and Now

18:13

on a good day. I cooked

18:16

Vienna sausages and grits

18:19

on a borrowed kerosene

18:21

heater One

18:23

day I meet a neighbor of mine and he says

18:26

listen I see you over there doing all that stuff

18:28

by yourself. If ever I could be of any help to you.

18:30

Let me know I

18:32

Stopped and I thought about it All

18:36

I had for preparing food

18:39

was an old sunbeam deep

18:42

fryer and a tiny

18:45

toaster oven What

18:47

I really needed help with was

18:52

To have a real kitchen that

18:55

I could cook in So

18:58

I told my neighbor that I had this gift

19:00

certificate for a turkey I had gotten from

19:02

the food bank and I

19:04

had plans already to spend time

19:06

with friends on Christmas Day But

19:10

if me and my kids could cook that turkey

19:12

we could eat off of it for days Well,

19:16

he said he was gonna be out of town and

19:18

offered to let me use this kitchen. I Was

19:22

relieved such a great weight was lifted

19:24

up off of me Even though it was only

19:27

for a little while. I Wouldn't

19:29

have to worry how me

19:31

and my children were going to eat. I

19:35

Went over to his apartment He

19:38

gave me a key and led me on a tour

19:40

of his kitchen, which wasn't in any

19:42

better shape than mine

19:44

But I noticed as we walked in

19:47

how dusty the brown tile

19:49

floor was And grit

19:52

was rolling under my feet

19:54

and when he went over to open a drawer

19:57

and show me where the utensils were roaches

20:00

ran out of everywhere. And

20:03

I'm thinking, this is

20:05

where I'm going to cook it. So

20:10

Christmas Day, the children and I had been invited

20:12

by a social services worker to

20:14

join her and her family for a holiday

20:16

celebration.

20:18

We got there and it

20:20

was wonderful. There were children

20:22

running around playing the aroma

20:25

of all kinds of foods in the air

20:27

and everything new like you smell at Christmas

20:29

time. And there was music playing

20:32

and I did good until

20:35

a song by Donny Hathaway,

20:38

This Christmas came on.

20:41

It flashed me back and

20:44

everyone there had been so nice to me and

20:46

my children. I didn't want them

20:48

to think that someone had said or done

20:50

anything to upset me. I figured

20:53

it was time for me to go home. So

20:57

when I got back to my apartment, I

21:00

thought about it and I said, girl, after all that

21:02

upset, you know you're not going to sleep. You

21:05

got that turkey in the sink. You

21:07

might as well go and cook the turkey. So

21:11

to pick my spirits up like I always

21:13

do, I wanted to hear some music.

21:16

So I put on Princess 1999

21:19

because tonight

21:22

we're going to party like we're going to cook

21:24

a turkey. I'm

21:27

doting all over that bird. I'm

21:30

basting it. I'm seizing it and I'm

21:32

fussing with it just to get it right in the center of the

21:34

pan. I got it

21:36

in there perfect. I snatched that key, head

21:39

out my kitchen door and go down to my

21:41

neighbors.

21:42

At the door, I'm standing on the stoop

21:44

balancing this flimsy

21:46

aluminum pan, putting my key in the door.

21:48

I

21:49

open the door, reach

21:52

in to turn on the light and head towards

21:54

the stove. And wow, two

21:56

big, ashy gray rats are standing

21:59

on top of the stove.

21:59

stove on their hind legs, screech,

22:02

screech, screeching at me before

22:04

they jump down and run across the floor.

22:07

And at that same moment,

22:10

I drop my turkey, it

22:12

bounces out of the pan, slides clear

22:14

across the floor, and hits the wall.

22:19

I am beside myself. I

22:22

go out on a stoop and I'm crying. Then

22:26

I retreat to my apartment, throw

22:29

myself into the sofa, and

22:32

make a decision whether or not I'm

22:34

going back to get my turkey. Oh,

22:39

those rats, I'm thinking. That

22:41

place is so nasty.

22:45

I'm not going to let them have it though,

22:47

am I? What

22:50

will we do?

22:53

Well, I'm going back

22:56

to get it. I

22:58

have to. But

23:00

this time, they can't catch me off

23:02

guard. I'm going ready for them.

23:06

So I rummage through my kitchen

23:09

drawers and then headed back

23:11

over. I get to

23:13

his place and I charge

23:16

in there like some kind of superhero.

23:19

And I snatched up my turkey as quickly

23:22

as I could and put it in

23:24

the pan

23:25

and walked right back home where

23:27

again, I put it in the sink. I

23:30

scrubbed it, I basted

23:32

it, I seasoned it,

23:34

and then walked it back over to

23:36

cook it. Hours

23:39

later, I'm carrying a perfectly

23:42

baked golden turkey in

23:44

an aluminum pan

23:46

as if it's on a silver platter,

23:49

walking it back over to my apartment where

23:52

I put it on the countertop. And I'm wrapping

23:54

it in about 10 layers of foil,

23:57

trying to muffle that irresistible.

23:59

roast turkey scent from

24:02

any rats. Before

24:05

I walk up the cement stairs to her bedroom

24:08

and place it high up on a closet shelf

24:11

where it can wait to be feasted on by

24:14

me and my boys. And

24:17

that night having

24:19

done what I needed to do to ensure

24:22

the survival of the fittest, I

24:26

slept for the first time in a very

24:28

long time, quite peaceably,

24:32

in the security of knowing that

24:34

my children and I would have food to

24:36

eat the next day and

24:38

for the next few days thereafter.

24:42

Thank you. Pamela

24:48

M. Covington is a speaker, author,

24:51

and anti-poverty advocate who lives

24:53

in Atlanta. Her memoir,

24:55

A Day at the Fair, One Woman's Welfare

24:57

Passage, is out now. When

25:00

her sons heard this story in all

25:02

of its rat fighting glory, they weren't

25:04

surprised that she did what she had to do in

25:06

order to provide for them. The

25:09

advice from her own mother that stuck with her, don't

25:12

be what you isn't, just be what you is.

25:14

Because if you is what you isn't,

25:16

then you isn't what you is.

25:25

Our next story comes from a daughter

25:28

who gets to know her mom better after one childhood

25:30

summer of hard work and surprises. Annie

25:33

Cher told it at a Chicago Story Slam showcase

25:36

where we partnered with public radio station

25:38

WBEZ. Here's

25:40

Annie, live at the Moth.

25:42

So

25:45

there was a lot of tension around money

25:47

in my household growing up. Who

25:50

was spending it, how much was being

25:52

spent, and of course why

25:54

so much of it was being spent at Target.

25:57

And as my brother

25:59

and I, grew older, my stay-at-home

26:01

mom felt more and more pressure to contribute

26:04

to the family financially. Naturally,

26:07

this led to her opening up an

26:10

online cat-themed gift store

26:12

called Feline Frenzy.

26:14

And I

26:17

was her unpaid intern. My

26:21

mom prided herself on only

26:23

selling high-end items like broaches

26:25

and handcrafted soaps, which set

26:28

her apart from the other feline retailers

26:30

who sold cheapo crap. And

26:34

eventually she decided to expand

26:37

her market by becoming a vendor at

26:39

cat shows throughout the Midwest. Now

26:42

for context, for those of you unfamiliar,

26:45

cat

26:46

shows are a lot like dog shows,

26:48

except while dogs can do things like

26:50

tricks, cats are judged

26:52

solely on their beauty and poise.

26:55

I

26:58

was bored out of my mind.

27:01

And this particular weekend,

27:04

instead of attending the North Junior

27:06

High School party of the century,

27:08

I was stuck with my mom

27:10

at a Best Western Plus just outside

27:13

of Des Moines. Instead

27:15

of playing spin the bottle, I had

27:17

to mingle with women over the age of 55 and

27:21

pedigreed cats I was not allowed to

27:23

touch because they were literally

27:25

worth more than me. I

27:29

begged

27:29

my mom for weeks to

27:31

let me stay home, but she just wouldn't

27:34

hear it. She couldn't do it

27:36

without me.

27:38

We set up in complete

27:40

silence. Two folding

27:43

chairs behind a glorified

27:45

card table with display racks featuring

27:48

our fine plush cat puppets

27:50

and artisanal ceramic pasta

27:53

bowls.

27:56

Business was slow.

28:01

It was always slow,

28:03

since, as it turns out, feline

28:06

enthusiasts have a strong preference

28:08

for cheapo crap. To

28:13

kill some time, my mom suggested

28:15

that we take a stroll around the conference

28:17

center. Something that we'd actually

28:19

never done before. We

28:22

spent so many weekends at these shows, but we never really left

28:24

our little booth.

28:25

We started by walking down the rows of

28:28

breeders. We had a

28:30

lot of koons and koons and Russian blues and cats

28:32

we never even knew existed before. And

28:35

neither do you. We

28:38

laughed at the many absurd hairdos

28:40

and gossiped about who we thought might

28:42

win big.

28:44

The afternoon ended up going by really fast,

28:46

and although I would not have admitted it at the time,

28:50

I was actually kind of having

28:52

fun.

28:54

That was until I realized at the end

28:56

of the day that we did not even

28:58

break even.

29:00

You see, before this show, my dad had

29:03

started to refer to feline frenzy

29:06

as an expensive hobby, and

29:08

I agreed with him. My

29:11

parents' arguments about money were

29:12

growing more and more heated, and

29:15

I resented my mom for being so

29:17

stubborn. These were

29:19

the thoughts that were on my mind as I

29:22

picked at my blooming onion at the local

29:24

Outback Steakhouse that night. A

29:26

meal that would cost more than we made

29:29

that day, and I just

29:31

couldn't hold it in any longer. Can't

29:35

you see how ridiculous

29:37

this is? Feline frenzy

29:39

is tearing our family apart.

29:43

Also, I think I'm more of a dog

29:45

person.

29:50

My mom sat quietly for

29:52

several minutes, the longest

29:55

silence there had been between us since the morning,

29:58

before she finally felt the pain.

29:59

finally turned to me and said,

30:02

Annie, of course I know it's ridiculous.

30:05

That's what makes it so fun. Not

30:08

everything is about money, and we never

30:10

get this sort of quality time to

30:13

spend together. For me, that's

30:15

what makes it all worth it.

30:18

I realized that

30:19

she was right. Between

30:22

school and friends and sick junior

30:25

high parties, these weekends

30:27

were the most time

30:29

I had spent with my mom in years, and

30:32

I'd forgotten how much I enjoyed

30:34

it.

30:36

The next day, we revisited some

30:38

of our favorite felines and cheered

30:41

them on in their final competitions.

30:44

We schmoozed with our vendor

30:46

neighbor Pat, who sold cat beds

30:48

and furniture.

30:53

We still did not sell

30:55

much, but it finally

30:57

was starting to feel like maybe my mom

31:00

and I were on the same team.

31:02

And the best part was that at

31:04

the end of the weekend, she told me I could pick out

31:07

one thing to thank me for all of my

31:09

hard work. My eyes immediately

31:12

found Eddie, the love child

31:14

of a Selkirk Rex and a Norwegian

31:16

forest cat.

31:18

I was shocked when my mom let

31:20

me actually bring Eddie home. I

31:23

was shocked for two reasons. The

31:25

first being that it put us several

31:28

hundred dollars in the hole for the weekend.

31:31

And the second being that it

31:33

broke my dad's golden rule,

31:36

which was do not under

31:39

any circumstances, no

31:41

matter what, bring another

31:43

cat home from a cat show.

31:46

My parents announced that they were getting a divorce

31:53

within

31:58

the week. No,

32:02

retroactively I know,

32:04

I know Eddie was not solely

32:06

to blame, but at

32:08

the time I couldn't help but feel at

32:10

least partially responsible.

32:14

And the divorce also meant the end

32:17

to feline frenzy.

32:19

I only ever attended one more

32:21

cat show, enthusiastically

32:23

this time, several months

32:25

later, just for fun as attendees

32:28

with my mom. We reconnected

32:31

with our friend Pat and our other feline

32:33

friends and reminisced

32:35

about our glory days.

32:38

Sure, maybe the

32:40

business side of feline frenzy

32:43

had been less than successful,

32:46

but it also gave us something that

32:48

money could never buy. We

32:50

were now rich in family

32:53

assets.

32:54

The two of us had never been closer.

32:57

Thank you. That

33:05

was Annie Cher. She's a writer

33:07

and performance artist in Chicago and

33:09

is currently a company member at the Neo

33:12

Futurist Theater. Check them out if you're in the

33:14

neighborhood. Some

33:15

standout motherly advice that she lives

33:17

by, money is made to

33:19

be spent.

33:22

Annie's story inspired me to have a chat

33:24

with my own mother, Georgina, about her

33:26

experience with being a mom to me

33:28

and my two younger brothers.

33:31

The transition into motherhood, I think,

33:34

seems like a pretty intense one. Your

33:36

mom passed away when you were pretty young. How

33:40

did that, if at all, impact

33:42

your approach to being a mom?

33:45

You would think that it

33:47

would really impact it, but

33:50

you don't really know what you're doing when

33:52

you become a parent. It's a learn

33:54

as you go along thing. Unfortunately,

33:57

I did have my sister that I could

33:59

call.

33:59

when, you know, she's

34:02

got 103, what should I do? I

34:04

mean, we've talked about it, but losing

34:07

your mom so young is such

34:09

a tough thing, especially me

34:11

thinking about, you know, everything

34:14

I've learned from you and how much I've leaned

34:16

on you throughout my life, and especially as I was growing

34:18

up for like support and, you

34:20

know, venting sessions and just like

34:23

a lot of love. And so I feel so

34:25

grateful that I've had you for all of

34:27

that because you've just been so wonderful and

34:30

it hurts my heart a little bit that you didn't

34:32

have that.

34:33

That's why

34:35

I think I overachieved

34:37

with all of you. I overdid everything,

34:41

overly concerned because I

34:43

didn't have that

34:45

and I knew how it felt not to have that and I didn't want

34:47

you three to feel the same way. So

34:50

I compensated. Had you

34:52

always envisioned yourself being a mom? Never

34:55

envisioned myself having children at all.

34:59

I remember leaving

35:01

England and my sister

35:03

saying to me, I'll see you in nine

35:05

months. And I said, oh, no way,

35:07

we're not having kids. And she was

35:10

right. You know, 12, 13 months

35:12

later, she came over because she was born.

35:15

I'm going to be 32 soon and

35:18

I have never envisioned myself having kids.

35:20

And I think I'm kind of maybe landing

35:22

more on the side of maybe I don't want

35:24

to have kids. How

35:26

do you feel hearing me say

35:28

that I don't think I want to have kids?

35:32

I want what makes you the happiest.

35:35

I don't live for my children

35:37

to have children to give me grandkids.

35:39

I just want my children to be happy.

35:42

So if you're happy, I'm

35:46

happy. Coming

35:51

up,

35:51

a mother and daughter connect over a

35:54

shared secret when the Moth radio

35:56

hour continues.

36:30

The Moth Radio Hour is produced by Atlantic

36:33

Public Media in Woods Hole, Massachusetts,

36:36

and presented by the public radio exchange,

36:38

PRX.org.

36:42

You're listening

36:44

to The Moth Radio Hour from PRX.

36:47

I'm Chloe Salmon, and this episode

36:49

is all about mothers. I'm

36:52

grateful for the experiences my mom had

36:54

before I knew her that made her into the mother

36:57

I had growing up, and for

36:59

the life she's lived in all of the years since

37:02

that have made her into the woman I know and love

37:04

today. Our final

37:06

storyteller also knows a thing or two about

37:08

showing up to motherhood as her full self. She

37:12

told this in Austin, where we

37:13

partnered with the Paramount Theater. Here's

37:15

Amanda Johnston. One

37:19

day when my daughter was in middle school,

37:22

she told me she had something really

37:24

important that she wanted to talk with

37:26

me about.

37:27

Now, if you have any kids in middle

37:29

school, you know it could be anything.

37:33

My mind started to run through the possibilities.

37:36

Could it be drugs? Was there some drama

37:38

with her friends at school? Could

37:40

it be drugs? I

37:43

said, no, she came to me. She wants to talk about

37:46

it. She'll say when she's ready.

37:48

So one morning we got dressed. We

37:51

put on our usual outfits. I

37:53

put on my business casual uniform,

37:56

black cardigan, comfortable slacks,

37:59

flats.

37:59

My daughter put on her usual very stylish

38:02

outfit of bows, colorful

38:04

bows that covered her whole head and

38:07

suspenders and a tennis skirt

38:10

and converse.

38:12

We went outside, got in the car and headed

38:14

to school. Now, usually

38:17

in the car, we're listening to the radio

38:19

and we go back and forth about what to listen to.

38:22

I want to listen to NPR. She

38:24

wants to listen to her favorite K-pop

38:26

group. She usually went,

38:30

but this day it was

38:32

quiet and the radio

38:34

stayed off. It

38:37

was silent, except

38:39

for her breathing. I could

38:42

hear her breathing awkwardly and I

38:44

felt her eyes on me when she said, Mom,

38:47

I'm gay. I

38:50

thought about what I should say,

38:53

but I kept my eyes on the road and just kept

38:56

driving towards school. I

38:59

also thought about my childhood.

39:02

See, I moved to Austin from

39:04

East St. Louis in the early 80s with my

39:06

mom. I was four years

39:08

old.

39:09

I had never been to Texas and I didn't know what

39:11

to expect, but my mom promised

39:14

me that we would get all new stuff, including

39:16

people, people who would become

39:19

our family.

39:19

Now, one of those people

39:21

was my mom's roommate, Uncle Bubba.

39:25

Uncle Bubba was amazing.

39:27

Uncle Bubba was as big as the door. He

39:29

had red hair, a red beard, red

39:32

chest hair that peaked out over his

39:34

fancy dress shirts. He had

39:36

a gold chain that would sparkle when the light

39:38

hit it, and I fell in love with him

39:41

immediately.

39:42

He and my mom would take me

39:44

everywhere, all over Austin. One

39:46

day, they took me to Zilker Park.

39:49

It was my first time going to Zilker Park. And

39:52

at Zilker Park, there was an ice cream

39:54

stand and a big kitty train

39:56

that went around the park. So Uncle Bubba

39:58

got us two cones and tickets for...

39:59

the train. It was perfect.

40:03

We got on the train and it was a beautiful

40:05

day. The sun was shining. I was enjoying

40:07

my ice cream. People were playing

40:09

in big fields where they were playing soccer

40:12

and throwing frisbees and flying kites.

40:15

And right when that train got

40:17

to those fields, Uncle Bubba

40:19

leaned and almost fell off the train.

40:22

He started yelling at some man. He said, I

40:24

could just lick you. And

40:34

I look and I see

40:37

this man, this beautiful muscular

40:39

man in little bitty shorts and no

40:42

shirt on and he's kind of sweaty because

40:44

he's playing with his friends and he

40:46

looks back at us and he kind of smiles

40:49

at us and the train keeps going.

40:53

Now mind you, I'm this big and I

40:55

don't know what's going on, but I asked Uncle Bubba,

40:57

I said, why do you want to lick that man?

41:05

And he just laughs at me and he says, you

41:07

eat your ice cream. That's for me. I

41:13

said, okay. I mean, it made sense.

41:15

I really liked my ice cream. He really liked

41:18

that man. It was a great day.

41:23

Well, at the same time I started

41:25

going to church. Now I didn't really

41:27

like going to church, but one of my

41:29

best friends went to church and I wanted to be

41:31

with her on the weekends. And one of the conditions

41:34

of me being with her on the weekends was that we had

41:36

to go to church. I was a tomboy,

41:38

so I didn't like that they made me wear dresses

41:41

and pantyhose. It wasn't my thing,

41:44

but I did it again so I could be with

41:46

my friend and we could play after. And

41:49

the sermons just kind of washed over

41:51

me really in one ear and out

41:53

the other, but there was one sermon

41:55

in particular that stuck.

41:57

And I remember, I remember, I remember, I remember,

41:59

I remember, I remember it because the preacher was angry.

42:03

And I had never been in a place full of so

42:05

many people that I loved with so much anger

42:08

and hate. He was

42:10

banging on the podium when he

42:13

spoke. He spat when he spoke.

42:16

And I remember him saying, it's Adam

42:18

and Eve, not Adam and

42:20

Steve.

42:22

And I was afraid.

42:25

Because I didn't understand everything that was going

42:28

on, I knew he was talking about my

42:30

Uncle Bubba. Uncle Bubba

42:32

was more like Adam and Steve. Again,

42:36

I was this big. I didn't know what to say, but

42:38

I knew I was scared and I was angry.

42:42

But I didn't want to upset my friend. And

42:44

I didn't want to upset my mom. And I definitely

42:46

didn't want to upset Uncle Bubba.

42:49

So I didn't say anything. I

42:51

kept my mouth shut. Just tucked it deep

42:54

inside.

42:55

And I remember feeling like that again

42:58

when I was in middle school.

42:59

I was in gym and we had

43:02

just went back to the locker rooms and all

43:04

the girls were getting dressed and reapplying their makeup.

43:07

And there was one girl in particular I

43:09

couldn't stop staring at.

43:12

She was beautiful.

43:15

And

43:15

I didn't know what I was feeling, but I

43:17

was stuck, I couldn't move. And

43:20

I must have stared just a little too long because

43:22

she caught me staring and she said, oh, what are you staring

43:25

at, Dyke?

43:28

And I couldn't move. And

43:30

then other girls started saying too, oh

43:33

yeah, what are you looking at? What are you looking at, Dyke? And

43:37

when I finally was able to speak, I

43:39

said, no, no, no, no, no. It's

43:41

not like that. I just think

43:43

she's pretty. She's just pretty. And

43:46

I grabbed my clothes and I got out

43:48

of there. I started

43:51

changing in the bathroom and avoiding

43:53

locker room altogether. Back

43:56

in the 80s, they didn't have pride clubs

43:58

or support groups. where kids

44:01

could figure out what they were feeling.

44:04

I didn't know any other gay kids, and

44:06

I only had Uncle Bubba as a reference,

44:09

and I didn't know how he was able to live like

44:11

that.

44:12

So out, and so open.

44:15

So again, I stayed quiet,

44:18

kept my mouth shut,

44:20

and tucked it down. I didn't know

44:22

how to verbalize that I was bisexual.

44:27

And since I was still attracted to boys, I

44:29

figured, hey, I'll just keep dating boys. That's

44:32

what I did. In

44:35

high school, I got pregnant with my first

44:37

daughter, and then I decided, that

44:39

was it. This is my job. This is what I do. I'm

44:42

going to work hard and take care of her, and

44:44

I'm not even going to worry about dating. I'll

44:46

be like my mom and me, just the two of us.

44:49

Of course, that's when I met my husband. And,

44:52

you know, we didn't date long,

44:55

only for about four months, but he was

44:57

my person.

44:58

He was everything. And

45:01

I didn't tell him about me being bisexual, because

45:04

what did it matter? I'd found my person. And

45:06

we'd gotten married. But

45:09

at the same time, you know, we had another

45:11

daughter, and I was building our family,

45:14

and I was growing as a writer and a poet,

45:16

and I was thriving in a community of

45:18

queer artists and activists. And

45:21

it just amplified how silent

45:23

I really was being,

45:25

that I hadn't truly said

45:28

my sexuality. I

45:30

knew that I would have to tell my husband.

45:33

So that year, we

45:35

went to dinner for New Year's

45:37

Eve, went to Dave and Buster's.

45:42

Not especially fancy place, but it's

45:44

one of the places we dated, went

45:46

when we were dating, and it was awesome. We

45:49

played games and felt like big kids.

45:52

So we were sitting there at the table, and I was

45:54

looking across at my love, and I thought,

45:56

he doesn't know.

45:59

I have to tell him. tell him I can't go into

46:01

a new year without him knowing

46:04

all of me. So I said

46:07

I need you to know something. I'm

46:09

bisexual and

46:12

my husband paused and he said maybe

46:15

you're just curious and

46:19

I shook my head and I said no no this

46:22

this is who I am.

46:24

I was

46:28

so proud of myself that

46:30

I was able to speak in that moment that

46:32

I wasn't gonna hide anymore that

46:35

I wanted us to step into the new year together

46:37

fully knowing and loving each other but I

46:40

was still afraid.

46:42

What if he left me?

46:44

What if everything changed? What

46:47

will we tell the kids? But

46:51

he didn't leave. We've been married

46:53

now for 21 years. I

47:01

came out to my close friends and family

47:03

but I still decided not to tell my daughters

47:05

because they were just too little but

47:07

one day I would. One day when

47:10

they were ready when they were discovering

47:12

their own sexuality and becoming

47:14

young women.

47:16

So back to that day in the car my

47:18

daughter and she told me

47:21

she was gay. I thought

47:23

about what it took for her to say

47:25

that. I thought about

47:28

what she had to go through and what I had to go

47:30

through for us both to be in that moment in

47:32

the car and I knew it

47:34

was time to tell her. I said I'm

47:36

gay too.

47:38

I'm bisexual and

47:40

it was like the car began to

47:43

float. The weight was lifted

47:45

off of both of us. She said she felt normal

47:48

knowing that she wasn't the only one in our

47:50

family

47:51

and I said that's just it. No one's

47:53

the only one.

47:55

You just don't know if they're not brave

47:57

enough to say it.

47:59

Brave like she was.

48:02

Brave like I hadn't been.

48:05

But there she was, speaking her truth.

48:08

She went on to high school, joined

48:11

the Gay Straight Alliance, became an officer,

48:14

and walked in the homecoming football game

48:16

with her girlfriend.

48:18

Yeah. Yeah.

48:25

She wasn't going to hide in the bathroom.

48:29

She wasn't going to hide her heart. She

48:32

was free. And

48:34

so was I. And you

48:36

know, I thought about it. Love

48:41

really can be that bridge over fear.

48:44

Or maybe it's

48:46

a train, an ice

48:48

cream, with your favorite uncle

48:51

who walks with his face towards the sun.

48:54

Thank you. That

49:02

was Amanda Johnston. She lives in

49:04

Central Texas with her family and is a writer,

49:07

artist, and founder of Torch Literary

49:10

Arts, a nonprofit that creates

49:12

advancement opportunities for black women

49:14

writers. The best advice her

49:16

mom ever gave her, when you learn something,

49:18

you don't unlearn it. You either

49:21

decide to face it or ignore it. It's

49:23

better to face it. Amanda

49:25

lost touch with Uncle Bubba when he moved

49:27

away from Austin a few years after that

49:30

afternoon in Zilker Park. But she

49:32

has a message for him. Uncle

49:34

Bubba, if you're listening, Amanda

49:37

says thank you for being her uncle, the

49:39

first member of her chosen family in Texas,

49:42

and for loving her and her mama

49:43

wholeheartedly.

49:47

That's it for this episode of the Moth

49:49

Radio Hour. If you're able to,

49:51

give your mama a hug the next time you see her. Thank

49:56

you to our storytellers, to my mom

49:59

for being the very best. and to you for

50:01

listening. And that's the story from

50:03

The Moth. ["The Moth." ["The

50:06

Moth." theme

50:09

music plays in the

50:12

background.] This

50:14

episode of The Moth Radio Hour was

50:17

produced by me, Jay Allison, Katherine

50:20

Burns, and Chloe Salmon, who also

50:22

hosted and directed the stories in the show,

50:24

along with Michelle Jollowski. Co-producer

50:27

is Vicki Merrick, associate producer Emily

50:30

Couch. The rest of the Moths leadership

50:32

team include Sarah Haberman, Sarah

50:34

Austin-Gioness, Jennifer Hickson, Meg Bowles,

50:37

Kate Tellers, Jennifer Birmingham,

50:39

Marina Cluche, Leanne Gully, Suzanne

50:42

Rust, Brandon Grant, Sarah Jane Johnson, and

50:44

Aldi Khaza. Moth stories

50:46

are true as remembered and affirmed by the

50:48

storytellers. Our theme music is

50:51

by The Drift, other music in this hour from Bruce

50:53

Springsteen, Prince, Victor

50:55

Wooten, and Andy Summers and

50:57

Benjamin Verdery. We receive funding

50:59

from the National Endowment for the Arts. The

51:02

Moth Radio Hour is produced by Atlantic

51:04

Public Media in Woods Hole, Massachusetts,

51:07

and presented by PRX. For more about our

51:09

podcast, for information

51:11

on pitching this your own story, and everything

51:13

else, go to our website,

51:14

TheMoth.org. ["The

51:16

Moth." theme music plays in the background.]