0:03

Welcome to the Musician-Centric Podcast

0:05

. We are two freelance violists

0:07

living and laughing our way through conversations

0:09

that explore what it means to be a

0:12

professional musician in today's world . I'm

0:14

Steph .

0:15

And I'm Liz , and we're so glad

0:17

you've joined us .

0:18

Let's dive in Make

0:20

sure

0:23

it's a little chilly today .

0:25

It's like damp and icky out , which is

0:27

the we're in this in between .

0:28

It's gross .

0:29

Like doesn't really feel like winter anymore here , but

0:32

it's not spring yet , so we're yeah

0:34

, it's a moving target , but it's on the horizon .

0:35

That weather . Yeah

0:38

, my little bulbs are starting to come up . Poke their little green sprouts

0:40

out , yeah .

0:40

So it's gonna happen . Yes , it's gonna happen

0:43

, yeah , so it's a good month , the month of March

0:45

.

0:46

Yeah , and we've got some great stuff for you too . So we have

0:48

a guest today . Her name is Katherine

0:51

Emeneth and she has a company that

0:53

she started called KE Creative and

0:55

she is a studio building guru

0:57

and she also does career coaching

0:59

for creatives . So we were talking to her

1:02

about a lot of different things

1:04

, but basically how to figure

1:06

out what you want to be doing as

1:08

a musician and how . It doesn't necessarily

1:11

have to be one of two ways , like either

1:13

you're gonna be a performer or you're going to

1:15

build a studio or become a professor

1:18

at a university .

1:19

Yeah , We've talked a lot over the course

1:21

of the podcast with people who

1:24

have kind of broken off the

1:26

traditional paths of performance

1:28

. But one of the things I think we haven't covered

1:30

very much up until this point and

1:32

we covered a lot with Catherine was

1:35

the idea that many people

1:37

who love to teach kind of put themselves

1:39

on the university track . Their goal is

1:41

to get a university job and their X

1:43

number of reasons Y and

1:45

the discovery that even in

1:47

that realm you can kind of carve

1:50

your own path and you can find a very fulfilling

1:52

career without necessarily being

1:54

on that track . And so it's kind

1:56

of continuing this theme of

1:59

carving out your own path . One of the things

2:01

that I thought both of us really were

2:03

drawn to was a concept that

2:05

Catherine shared with us related to

2:07

scarcity versus abundance . We've talked

2:09

a lot about that too , but the idea that there's like

2:11

this world we live in in which there's not enough

2:13

work to go around , that it's very competitive

2:16

, that we have to be kind of like

2:18

working against each other or meeting each

2:20

other out . And then there's this whole

2:22

other perspective , this whole other

2:24

world where actually

2:26

there's plenty of work to go around , there's

2:28

plenty of opportunities and it's more

2:30

centered around really crafting your

2:32

opportunities to be the ones that you want

2:35

the most for yourself and really identifying

2:37

with yourself in that way , and the way she described

2:39

it I thought was just so effective and really

2:41

fun to listen to .

2:43

Yeah , so there's a lot of building

2:45

, I feel like this season . We talked with

2:47

Astrid earlier in the season about finding

2:49

your strengths and figuring out

2:51

what your path is based on , your strengths and

2:53

what's important to you , and this

2:56

follow up with Catherine is really nice because

2:58

it's like , okay , well , now that you

3:00

kind of might have an idea , here's how you can go about

3:02

doing it and here's how you can focus

3:04

your efforts .

3:05

And she has a bunch of courses and stuff which she's

3:07

going to talk about too Offerings for

3:09

those of us who are still trying to figure out where we're

3:11

going , yeah , and then the other takeaway

3:14

that I remember very distinctly

3:16

was we had a conversation about the

3:18

amount of investment that's involved

3:20

in kind of carving this type of life out

3:22

for yourself , and it was really interesting . Later

3:24

on , we did not talk about this in the conversation

3:27

with her , but I found a post that she had

3:29

shared a while back . It's at

3:31

the top of her Instagram , so for those

3:33

of you who are interested , you can go and check

3:35

it out . But she writes five hard truths

3:37

for musicians . Number three on it

3:39

is if you allow yourself to take

3:41

every opportunity , you may miss out on life

3:44

, and she talks about how she's

3:46

been sort of guilty in the past

3:48

of making decisions that are work-centered

3:51

and kind of missing out on personal life opportunities

3:53

and things like that . But she says at the end of it

3:56

like there will always be a music opportunity

3:58

, there will always be something there , and balance

4:00

has been resonating with me a lot lately , so

4:02

I thought that was a good thread of conversation

4:05

as well .

4:05

Yeah , there's lots of great takeaways from

4:07

this episode , so let us

4:09

know what you really loved from it . And

4:12

, if you loved this episode , if

4:14

we could just ask you to share it

4:16

with somebody who you think might also

4:18

benefit from it . That really helps us a lot

4:20

, yeah , spreading the word , collaborating

4:22

with your coworkers , too , and

4:24

your colleagues and your friends to help lift

4:26

everybody up . And we do actually have

4:29

some listeners who did share our

4:31

last episode with Drew Ford , and

4:33

the first one of those is her name is Elizabeth

4:35

Knob , and she's on Instagram at

4:37

at life from the viola section . So

4:40

thank you , elizabeth for sharing .

4:41

Thank you , elizabeth . And the other listener

4:43

who shared was Veronica Vitascova

4:45

Simonson , and she's at

4:48

Veronica . That's V-E-R-O-N-I-K-A

4:51

, underscore V-I-T-A-Z-K-O-V-A

4:55

. Thank you so much for sharing this episode

4:57

. It was just such a great conversation , and

4:59

the more people that were able to connect

5:02

with them that way , the better .

5:03

So yeah , so thank you and enjoy

5:05

this episode with Katherine Emeneth . We

5:09

are all busy , especially those

5:11

of us who teach music . We give everything

5:13

to ensure our students' abilities and love of music

5:15

are always growing and developing . We

5:17

want to make sure each one has the right

5:19

setup and instrument , but we barely have

5:22

enough time to practice for ourselves sometimes .

5:24

That's where Potter Violins can come in . Their

5:26

sales team and technicians are also

5:28

players and experts on all string

5:31

things . You can send your students to try

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instruments , get properly sized

5:35

, have their current instruments adjusted

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or to pick out a new bow or other

5:39

string accessory . You can have total

5:41

confidence that they'll be taking care of . Potters

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will even ship what your students need anywhere

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in the United States .

5:47

So take one thing off your plate

5:49

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5:51

, no matter what they need , and

5:53

Potter Violins loves teachers so

5:56

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it .

6:01

Visit their flagship location in Tacoma

6:03

Park , Maryland , their rental location

6:05

in Gaithersburg , Maryland , or shop online

6:07

from anywhere at PotterViolinscom

6:10

. Katherine

6:13

Emeneth is a musician , educator

6:15

and studio-building guru . Through

6:17

her KE Creative brand , she helps

6:19

musicians create impactful careers

6:21

, whether they're looking for help establishing , marketing

6:24

or sustaining a private studio or simply

6:26

getting unstuck in their entrepreneurship journey

6:28

. Originally on the traditional path towards a

6:30

full-time professorship , she wound up discovering

6:33

that she'd already built her dream job on

6:35

her own . Through career coaching , consulting

6:37

and engaging Instagram content , catherine

6:39

is generously sharing her skills with countless

6:42

other musicians . We're very excited

6:44

to welcome you to the MusicianCentric podcast

6:46

, Katherine .

6:47

Well , thanks so much , Liz and Steph

6:49

.

6:49

I'm thrilled to be here and chatting with you guys

6:51

, so we figured we'd just jump

6:53

right in talking about your

6:55

path through the music educator

6:58

world in higher ed . We

7:00

both found it really interesting to just consider

7:03

that on this podcast . We're both freelance

7:05

musicians , professionals . We both have studios

7:07

, so we're going to probably pick your brain about that too

7:10

. We've discovered that our

7:12

original training was in the orchestral world

7:14

. Win an orchestra job , that's the plan

7:16

. Unfortunately , that market is

7:19

just simply very saturated right now

7:21

, so freelance musicians are having

7:23

to really carve out their own careers . Of

7:25

course there's overlap here , but this

7:27

traditional path of pursuing a

7:29

higher ed professorship , the full-time job

7:32

, get the doctorate , then you'll go teach in

7:34

a college Very similar in a lot of

7:36

ways , right , the market is kind of saturated

7:38

, and so can you tell us a little bit about

7:40

your experience with that and how

7:42

you got to where you are right now ? Yeah , for sure

7:44

.

7:44

And this is one of my favorite things to talk about , because

7:46

this allows us to rethink

7:49

what our music career can look like , how it

7:51

doesn't have to be A or B , and through

7:53

my journey and many other musicians'

7:56

journeys we've had to figure it out like what

7:58

else can we do ? For me , when I started

8:01

in college , I was a music education major

8:03

because my parents said you cannot major

8:05

in performance . You need to have

8:07

some type of backup plan , something

8:09

that you can do . I'm

8:12

super introverted as a human and

8:14

I was like I don't like kids , I don't want to do

8:16

this music ed major , I just want to play

8:18

like many young musicians do

8:21

. But in hindsight I'm so grateful that I did

8:23

, because that gave me that little glimpse

8:25

of another field

8:27

and how it can look differently . So I started

8:29

there and then , after I graduated

8:31

, I actually taught general music

8:33

at an elementary school for a year . You are

8:35

brave . I

8:38

had 600 students I saw every

8:40

single week . I taught seven

8:43

hours of classes . I was in charge

8:45

of an afterschool chorus of fourth and fifth graders

8:47

. I had 120 in that . I was responsible

8:50

for organizing the talent show , doing two full

8:52

blown musicals a year , and y'all , I am not

8:54

a singer . I did

8:56

vocal methods for that one

8:58

semester .

8:58

That's where we're forced to .

9:00

And that was it . Yes , exactly

9:02

. I'm always really grateful for that

9:04

experience because it made me realize

9:06

I actually do like kids and I actually love

9:08

teaching . I just don't like in that number

9:10

, that quantity of kids . So

9:13

then , of course , like I was like oh crap , what do I do now

9:15

? So I went back to school for safety , got

9:17

a master's in performance and then decided

9:20

to move all the way across the country to Seattle

9:22

to pursue a doctorate in flute performance

9:25

. And it was there where I

9:27

really was like oh , I want to do the higher ed

9:29

thing because it's all of my favorite things it's teaching

9:32

, it's playing and it's researching

9:34

, being a nerd and writing and

9:36

impacting young musicians so that they

9:38

can go on and build a great career for themselves

9:41

. Because all through my college career I

9:43

was that type of musician who was like

9:45

I'm the exception , I'm going to be the one

9:47

that gets the job , I'm going to do whatever

9:49

it takes in order to make myself really

9:52

marketable . So I did things already

9:54

in college , like I interned with

9:56

the Atlanta Symphony and I helped with

9:59

build out the summer music program

10:01

at one of the universities . And then at my doctorate

10:03

I did similar things . I tutored

10:05

the athletes in the athletic department in

10:07

their non major music classes . To get that

10:09

under my belt , I did the whole , the whole

10:11

checklist of the traditional things we're supposed

10:13

to do as musicians , you know , teaching

10:15

master classes . I organized a summer

10:17

festival and ran the whole thing . I built

10:19

websites , I learned , I figured out how to do all

10:22

of that on my own , without any help , and

10:24

at the same time , too , I was like , well , crap , I'm living

10:26

in Seattle , it's extremely expensive

10:28

, I need an income , let's teach privately

10:31

. And so I was able to start a studio

10:33

doing that . So all of that kind of helped

10:35

me going in for a college professor

10:38

position . And I had , I think

10:40

I had seven in-person interviews

10:42

where I was in the final three each time

10:45

, and the thing that got me there was

10:47

not my fancy performing degrees

10:49

and international competitions , but

10:51

it was the fact that I had a music at degree

10:54

, I had built my own studios

10:56

, I had created summer programs

10:58

all on my own and I knew all of these skills

11:00

and I had done all of these skills that I

11:02

could help the students at the university

11:05

do for themselves to provide them with that

11:07

education . So you know a lot of times

11:09

not so much anymore . But a lot

11:11

of times professors will poo

11:13

poo like if you do things

11:15

other than practicing or like gain

11:17

other type of experience . But that was the thing

11:19

that really set me apart from everybody else . I

11:21

got my foot in the door , Did not go to big name conservatories

11:24

or anything like that , but it was just that my

11:26

career was so diverse . So I was on

11:29

that track to have that traditional professor

11:31

job and then through that process

11:33

I started realizing like you

11:35

know what , especially as I got into the final

11:37

three and I started seeing the salaries . Some

11:40

of them were like $45,000 a

11:42

year for an assistant professor

11:44

job and like recruiting

11:46

is a huge thing and all the stuff

11:48

that they wanted me to do and it's

11:50

living like in not ideal

11:52

places . You know , I started

11:55

going through this phase where I was like

11:57

let's take a step back . What do we really

11:59

want to achieve in this life ? And what I really

12:01

wanted to achieve in this life was

12:03

loving music and playing music , helping

12:06

other people and making

12:08

as many people as I can lifelong lovers

12:10

of music and helping this next

12:12

generation of musicians learn the valuable

12:15

skills of how to create a job and to

12:17

make a living as a full time musician

12:19

. So then I had to stop and think do I really

12:21

need a title to do that ? Do I really

12:23

need that ? No , I don't really need that title

12:25

. So for me , that pivot

12:28

kind of happened and it was scary

12:30

, of course , because you know , the reason why

12:32

musicians are attracted to those traditional

12:35

career paths is because it feels

12:37

safe , right , stay stable

12:39

like you're . You're walking into a place

12:41

that provides you health insurance and benefits

12:44

and you know you don't have to make

12:46

your own income . But the problem

12:48

with that is in marketing and in business . There's

12:50

a strategy that's really cool called Red Ocean

12:52

Blue Ocean strategy . I don't know if y'all

12:54

are familiar with this or not but I use it all the

12:56

time when I'm talking marketing . Okay

12:59

, so it's a strategy that's been around for a long

13:01

time and there's a book about it . So if you like , nerd out

13:03

about marketing and business stuff , like I do , you check

13:05

it ? Out and basically is the

13:07

red ocean are all of the industries

13:09

that are in existence today , so the

13:12

known market space where industry boundaries

13:14

are defined and companies try to outperform

13:17

their rivals to try to get more

13:19

of the existing market . It's cutthroat

13:22

competition which turns the ocean

13:24

red because of like what it's kind of

13:26

a little bit . So

13:28

you have to compete in an existing market

13:30

. You have to beat the competition , you

13:32

have to exploit the existing demand

13:35

and you have to align with

13:37

the market's current set of rules

13:40

. You have to follow the rules that the market is set

13:42

up for . What does that sound ? A whole

13:44

lot like .

13:45

Yep , yep , I mean right , sounds like our

13:47

lives .

13:48

Yeah , it's the classical music

13:50

bubble , as I call it , and

13:53

I mean the bubble's not bad , but

13:55

it kind of you . There's roles you have to follow

13:57

. You have to be okay with doing certain things

14:00

, like spending tons of money to go take

14:02

auditions or to go travel or , you

14:04

know , be okay with driving all over the place

14:06

for freelance work , and if you're okay

14:09

with those rules , then that's what the bubble

14:11

dictates that you do , and then you stay in that

14:13

bubble .

14:14

It's also a small bubble .

14:15

Yes , it's very small .

14:17

It's getting smaller .

14:18

And it's getting smaller . There's more people

14:20

being crammed into the bubble . Exactly

14:22

, it's getting really overcrowded

14:24

it really is , and so it's kind of depressing

14:26

. But the great news is

14:28

you have that red ocean , or the

14:31

classical music bubble as I call it , and then you

14:33

have the blue ocean . So the blue ocean

14:35

is where I started living

14:37

and it brought so much more help , happiness

14:40

, positive impact in the community . And

14:42

so , basically , the Blue Ocean

14:44

is our industries that don't exist

14:46

, they're the unknown , they're unexplored

14:49

and there's no competition . It's vast

14:52

, it's deep , it's powerful , there's tons

14:54

of opportunity and places for having

14:56

profitable growth . There's no competition

14:58

like it's totally irrelevant

15:00

if you have competition or not . You can create

15:03

and capture new demand in it

15:05

and you can do something

15:07

different , you can pursue something different . So

15:10

our Blue Ocean is where , in

15:12

my work , I try to help nudge musicians

15:14

towards . Is that Blue Ocean to

15:17

try to think of how their skill sets are different

15:19

and how they can impact the world in

15:21

a new and different way ? The downside of the Blue

15:23

Ocean is it's extremely scary

15:25

to make that shift in that pivot , because

15:27

humans are herd animals and we

15:29

love sticking with what we know

15:32

, people see as makes

15:34

you a valid musician . So the titles

15:36

, the doctorate , the checklist

15:39

I won this job in this orchestra or I

15:41

played with this orchestra last weekend Versus

15:43

starting something on your own and

15:45

being very , very vulnerable . So

15:47

, as far as your question goes

15:50

about those traditional paths and

15:52

breaking free and looking into something different

15:54

, I always like to think about the Red Ocean and the

15:56

Blue Ocean because , to me , in order for

15:58

us to continue classical music industry

16:01

and to make it better and to make it live

16:03

on forever , we gotta start thinking like

16:05

that Blue Ocean .

16:06

I just , yeah , to make it bigger , yeah , I just love this

16:08

so much .

16:08

It's like I've said this before many

16:10

times but I was always

16:13

dissatisfied with the

16:15

funnel . It feels like we're just stuck

16:17

on and from an early age like 26

16:20

years old I was going I need to come

16:22

up with something . I need to like do something

16:24

different . I just I have to figure something else

16:26

out , and it just was like the feeling of

16:28

red versus blue . There's

16:30

so many things that that evokes . It's just very

16:32

, very cool and we've never been introduced

16:34

to that idea before . But I will also say

16:37

, even now I can think of more than

16:39

one example from the last orchestra job I played

16:41

where that example of toxicity

16:43

, the like cut throat , like cut

16:45

somebody else down , it's mine

16:47

. I need to carve it out from , I need to steal

16:50

this from another person because there's not enough room

16:52

for all of us Kind of mentality

16:54

is so pervasive and

16:57

it's so fascinating to think like we're

16:59

just sort of stuck in the shallows somewhere . We're

17:01

all like feeding off of each other . But

17:03

if you just get out there into the big

17:06

wide blue open . There's

17:08

so much room and

17:10

it is scary , like 100%

17:13

. It's scary but it's also so

17:15

rewarding . It's the place where you

17:17

don't feel that pressure to

17:20

like get ahead of somebody

17:22

else Like you're just doing your own . You're

17:24

swimming your own race , Like you're just doing

17:26

your own thing , right . I just love that

17:28

so much .

17:30

It made me think of Liz . We're doing

17:32

a reading this book called Creative Success

17:34

Now by Astrid Bombgriner , and

17:37

a big part of you know she coaches

17:39

people in a similar way creatives

17:41

to find their own path their blue ocean

17:43

, so to speak . But what this reminds me

17:45

of , and what you said was important to

17:47

you when you were examining

17:50

your own career path , was you

17:52

wanted to help people , you wanted to

17:55

play music , you wanted to inspire

17:57

people kids to love music for

17:59

their whole lives , and these are

18:01

values and this is like the cornerstone

18:04

of anyone's career in music

18:06

. Once you take a step back and say , okay

18:09

, well , this career path isn't necessarily

18:11

what I need or want

18:13

in order to be fulfilled . It's these qualities

18:16

that are important to me . So what can

18:18

I do that involves these qualities .

18:20

Yeah , exactly , and like I remember

18:22

even subbing in orchestras and

18:24

just feeling in my body being so

18:26

uncomfortable and like worrying

18:29

about what everyone is thinking

18:31

and when somebody's gonna tell me like

18:33

you're playing this too loud or playing this too soft

18:35

and like , am I gonna be asked back again ? Versus

18:38

, like going and hanging out in a pit in

18:40

the orchestra for Cinderella or Mary Poppins

18:42

and like the retired principal trombonist

18:44

of the major orchestra sitting right behind me playing

18:46

beautiful sounds in my ear and he was like

18:49

, oh my gosh , this is so much more fun

18:51

if I had only known this . You

18:53

know , and just finding that fulfillment in

18:55

that way , yeah , and this is industry

18:58

wide .

18:58

It's like just a change of approach and

19:01

I think you can even you can

19:03

see it in orchestras as well . You know the orchestras

19:05

that are kind of taking this blue ocean approach as

19:07

opposed to the red ocean , and it is stark

19:09

. I mean , for a freelancer it's stark

19:11

. I'm highly attuned to it

19:13

now , but it makes decisions easier , like if

19:15

you're committed to this path and it's

19:17

working for you . You know , I mean there's a

19:19

fair amount of I think this is worth talking

19:22

about and maybe this gets into like the

19:24

pivot of you know how do musicians go about

19:26

doing this . There's a fair amount of like faith or trust

19:28

. That has to happen . That's like I know what I want

19:31

and I know how it feels when I'm

19:33

doing the right things and I know how it feels when I'm not

19:35

doing the right things , like . But that uncertainty

19:37

can be very scary , truly

19:40

very scary .

19:41

How'd you get over that yourself ?

19:42

You know it was a very interesting process

19:44

because when I decided to stop

19:46

applying for college professor jobs and

19:49

just do my own thing , I honestly

19:51

grieved for about six

19:53

months about , you know

19:55

, leaving that dream that

19:57

I had had for so long behind

19:59

. You know , I would see in my inbox every now

20:01

and then former professors that would send me

20:03

like flute professor job vacancy

20:06

postings and stuff and how

20:08

they were still trying to encourage me to

20:10

go down that path , you know , because that's their

20:12

job as an educator , but not really

20:14

honoring the decision that I had made

20:16

to not pursue that anymore . So

20:18

it was really . It's hard because

20:20

we have all this external pressure coming to

20:22

you and also the fact that you have spent

20:24

so much time pursuing this one

20:27

thing and you have invested so much energy

20:29

and money into pursuing this whole

20:31

thing and there's so many people who've cheered

20:33

you on to do this thing and

20:35

now you're changing gears . So it kind

20:37

of felt like grieving it in a way . Oh

20:39

, 100% . I feel that very , very

20:41

strongly right now ? Yes , but

20:43

on the other side too and this is what I tell

20:46

folks that I work with and that I coach is

20:48

that if you believe in your thing

20:50

so much that you don't

20:52

care what other people say and

20:54

that you're going to do it anyway , if it helps

20:56

one person , then it makes it worth

20:58

it . Then you should do the thing . You should at least

21:01

give it a try . This is what I'm happy

21:03

to scream from the rooftops in order to help

21:05

at least one person . I know I can't please everyone

21:08

and , of course , when people do poo poo your

21:10

posts or they send you random emails

21:12

or whatever , of course you're like oh crap , I

21:14

made somebody mad , or

21:16

am I doing the right thing ? What are people going

21:18

to think of me ? And that whole imposter syndrome

21:20

. But as you go and doing this

21:22

and you start getting that proof that

21:25

yeah , this is actually helping people , this

21:27

is actually a really cool

21:29

thing that's going to support people and

21:31

make their lives better in a different way , then

21:33

you're like okay , keep going , keep going

21:35

what the haters hate and

21:38

show it for the people who really appreciate

21:40

what you've got to say , one

21:42

friend of ours was just talking to me

21:44

texted me not that long ago about

21:46

this the idea that actually most

21:49

entrepreneurs have what they call portfolio

21:51

career , which means that there's

21:53

multiple aspects of that and you can

21:55

add and you can take away and

21:58

there's always going to be something different , which

22:00

is again goes back to that blue ocean idea

22:02

.

22:03

This is a total tangent , but I'm going to ask it because it's

22:05

something that's very present of mine , for me in

22:07

my life right now . All of this sounds so

22:09

amazing and it's like I resonate

22:12

with the helper . I resonate

22:14

with this feeling of when you're connecting to other

22:16

people , you're making a pact in their lives . You

22:18

really feel it and you are motivated

22:21

by it and I feel

22:23

, every year I get older , my

22:25

capacity for that is

22:27

fully dependent on my energy levels

22:29

and what I'm capable of doing

22:31

in terms of taking care of myself

22:34

and having time . This

22:36

sounds like a lot of work .

22:41

See all these gray hairs that are coming in there

22:43

, friends .

22:45

And I think it's important to mention this because

22:47

this is true . I think this is one of

22:49

those things that can limit sometimes

22:51

our musicians from going from red ocean

22:53

to blue ocean . Mentality is that the

22:55

stuff that you just get called for , that's

22:57

your paycheck , that you keep getting

22:59

that job . You

23:02

get to a certain point in your career . You don't have to do the work

23:04

to make that stuff happen , you don't have to

23:06

create it , it's just there , it's just a gig

23:08

. It pays you X amount of money . You know how much it's

23:10

going to make . Whatever , for us there's

23:13

this big level energy that

23:15

has to go into everything you do , and

23:18

if that energy is taken away , it doesn't

23:20

do as well . So I

23:22

think my question is and it's because

23:24

I'm working on this myself where's the balance

23:27

? How is your life work

23:29

balance and what do you do to

23:31

decompress and do you have any time to decompress

23:34

?

23:34

Yes , yeah

23:36

, that's a big question that I actually get asked

23:38

quite a lot of times . In my opinion

23:41

, as a portfolio career musician , as an entrepreneur

23:43

, even as a musician , there really is no

23:45

balance . There's never going to be a time in

23:47

your life where you're perfectly in

23:50

a symbiotic relationship

23:52

with the care of personal life in your work

23:54

life . It's always going to be

23:56

tilted one way or another . So

23:58

I know . For me , what I've had to figure

24:00

out is where are my boundaries

24:03

of where I know what

24:05

are the caps of things that I can do ? So

24:07

, for example , for my private teaching

24:09

studio , I have 16 students

24:12

this year . Four of them are graduating

24:14

and so , even though I have a big waiting list

24:16

, I'm only going to keep it at 12 next

24:18

year . So then I'm only teaching four hours

24:21

a day , three days a week . So that is my

24:23

cap for that . I wish I could teach everybody

24:25

, but that's not sustainable . So

24:28

keep those 12 going For going out

24:30

to schools and doing sectionals teaching is

24:32

one of the most exhausting things

24:34

that you can do for your

24:36

body and sectionals .

24:38

Oh , God , yes so much

24:40

energy .

24:40

I love them . It requires so much energy .

24:42

So much energy , yeah totally so

24:45

.

24:45

I have seven schools that I go

24:47

to this semester . The next semester

24:49

is going to go way down

24:51

to two schools that I go see

24:54

. And then I'm recruiting other

24:56

flutists to this area so that they

24:58

can take on that work and

25:00

so that they build our community . Give those other

25:02

musicians the opportunity to learn these skills

25:04

. So , and then for the online

25:07

stuff , it takes a lot of time

25:09

. It takes a lot of time to create things . It

25:11

takes a lot of time to market things and you know

25:13

, especially these days , you see all these ads

25:15

that are like create a digital product

25:17

and have a passive income , y'all that

25:19

is a bunch of things . That is a myth

25:22

. There is no such thing as passive

25:24

income as a person who has tried it numerous

25:26

times , I work harder on my passive

25:28

stuff than I do on my active stuff . That's

25:31

a lot . So you know , finding out

25:33

which things you want to dedicate

25:35

your focus to . The

25:37

other thing that I do is that I think of

25:39

all of my projects or all of my different things

25:41

that I do in my portfolio . Career is like pots

25:43

on a stove . So sometimes of years

25:46

, there's going to be one thing that's almost

25:48

boiling over . Right , that's the forefront of my attention

25:50

, while the other stuff's in the back burner and then they

25:52

rotate . So you don't want to have all of your pots

25:54

boiling over because that's going to make you insane

25:56

. So , like figuring out in your schedule

25:59

okay , when can I dedicate the most time to

26:01

this one pursuit , Like when do I

26:03

need to focus on that and when can I

26:05

push the other stuff in the back ? So

26:07

it comes with a lot of planning and a lot

26:09

of organization with the things

26:11

. But it's very important to plan

26:14

so that you don't get overwhelmed and get into paralysis

26:16

or you don't want to do anything .

26:18

Yeah , yeah . That's a very

26:20

common side effect of overwhelm . For

26:22

me , yes , at least it's like paralysis .

26:25

Yeah , yeah , burnout in general , I mean

26:27

it's a thing , it is a thing for sure

26:29

.

26:30

And I feel like that a lot of times . Musicians especially

26:32

, we run from each thing that's urgent

26:34

to the next thing that's urgent . Put out the fire

26:36

immediately , like what's the next thing I absolutely

26:38

have to do , instead of focusing on the important

26:41

thing . Yeah , is

26:43

that urgent versus important thing ? That's always going

26:45

on , so you always have to step back

26:47

and look at what is important that will move me forward

26:49

, not just the fire that I need to put out right now .

26:52

That's a great way to think about it , because

26:54

, yeah , I feel that shift . I

26:56

also was just talking to somebody recently

26:58

who was saying they were just out one night and

27:01

casually talking to this person who was the surgeon , talking

27:03

about how they can never take a break , like they

27:05

can never take time off because then they lose

27:07

their chops and then it's like a whole

27:09

balance or whatever . And but I'm

27:11

like , do you understand , though , the

27:14

funny , like the way you're talking about

27:16

this ? You're talking about the sense of life

27:18

or death , but you're literally talking to someone

27:20

who's working in the business of life

27:23

or death . Like is this very funny

27:25

to me ? I'm like , if surgeons can take a

27:27

break and come back and still save lives

27:29

, so can we .

27:31

Absolutely .

27:32

Yeah .

27:32

Yeah , and it's important to you

27:34

too .

27:35

Yeah , well , a lot of us just going back to

27:37

your transition from having

27:39

this kind of blinders-on idea of what

27:41

you wanted to do to taking the blinders

27:43

off and being a little bit more open . So a

27:46

lot of us musicians are kind of realizing

27:48

it . The blinders are kind of being like ripped

27:50

away , yeah , but

27:53

as orchestras , our opportunities are

27:55

becoming fewer and further between . So

27:57

the people who you coach like let's

27:59

say that you have people coming to

28:01

you that are stuck , they're unsure

28:03

, they're kind of in limbo how do

28:05

you coach them through this time

28:07

of trying to figure out what's next

28:10

?

28:10

Yeah , and most people I talk to

28:12

, that's how they come to me . And

28:14

first of all we explore like dream

28:17

scenario , right , I think a lot of times musicians

28:19

don't allow themselves to dream and

28:21

we get stuck in this thing of having

28:24

to do things , because that's what the classical

28:26

music bubble says we have to do , and if we don't

28:28

do those things we're a failure . Blah , blah , blah . So

28:30

first we start off with dreaming . What are

28:32

the things ? What do you want out of your life ? What

28:34

do you want ? What are those values that you

28:36

want to have in your life ? What are the things that you want

28:38

to always do ? What are the things that's the most

28:40

exciting for you ? And then we kind of pair

28:43

those down into categories

28:45

. So if somebody likes to write a

28:47

lot , then that would go in a category . If

28:49

somebody likes to play , which most people do

28:51

, that goes into a category . If somebody

28:54

likes to teach , then that would be another

28:56

thing . If they are into numbers or

28:58

business , then we kind of look

29:01

and see what their interests are , the things that excite

29:03

them , because if you're not excited by something

29:06

, you're not going to be able to go all in and stay

29:08

in it , right ? So then after we do , that

29:10

we talk about okay . Well , what is it about

29:13

those things that excite you ? What

29:15

you're thinking is mostly is connecting

29:17

with a person , a young person , one-on-one and being

29:20

a mentor to them , because they had a mentor

29:22

that was really really formative in their youth

29:24

For writing . It could be that they're

29:26

introverted , like me , and they like that

29:29

form of expression better than they

29:31

like talking or teaching someone

29:33

. And then for business , a lot of people will just like

29:35

the competitive edge and like seeing

29:37

how what they can do can impact an

29:39

organization or whatever . So then

29:42

I usually will say

29:44

well , I will come up with a couple of scenarios

29:46

of different things like how does this sound

29:49

to you ? And either , if

29:51

it's like starting a private studio , starting

29:53

an ensemble , starting a business

29:55

, starting this , that and the other , they say , yeah

29:57

, that's great , but , and then there's usually

30:00

some type of objection , some type of

30:02

block that gets in their way , and then

30:04

usually after that we talk through that

30:06

block . Where is that coming from ? Is

30:08

that coming from music school , where you

30:10

were taught that all you could do is play and all you should

30:12

do is practice , and that you will be frowned upon if

30:14

you do not go into this direction or

30:16

this direction , because if you don't look at it straight

30:18

in the face and really accept

30:21

it , that it's right there in front of you , you cannot

30:23

blow past it , like you have

30:25

to figure out where that is and

30:27

if you're going to let it limit you or if you're

30:29

going to release it and then be

30:31

able to pursue the thing . So usually

30:33

that's a big part of

30:36

this and most people when they when

30:38

they start working with me in whatever capacity , by

30:40

the time we're done , the biggest thing that they have gained

30:42

is confidence in themselves

30:44

and knowing that they can do the thing and

30:46

that they feel comfortable with it , because they start off

30:48

really scared about taking this thing

30:50

and then , by the end , really confident and own

30:53

the thing that they're trying to create . So there's

30:55

a lot of limiting beliefs out

30:57

there for musicians and there's a lot of

30:59

things that happen to us because I think

31:01

it's not addressed throughout our education

31:04

. We are not given a taste of how

31:06

to do this , how to do that , how to do that . It's getting

31:08

better , for sure , but there's no

31:11

guide , there's no do this , this

31:13

, this , this , and that's how we've been trained as we were

31:15

kids .

31:15

Yeah , I mean the blocks are also

31:18

. I think so much of it is

31:20

like we said before when you said , catherine

31:22

, that you had this grieving process you have

31:25

to also do the work of letting

31:27

go of this concept that if

31:29

you give up that path , you are somehow

31:31

lesser than and that your colleagues

31:33

are going to have this attitude about you

31:36

, that you gave up on a thing because

31:38

you couldn't make it or whatever , but

31:40

I just think more and more about it . I'm like

31:42

but most of us are in that boat . Most

31:44

of us haven't made it and we're

31:47

all . So , who's fighting who

31:49

? I mean , we just had this . We talked to somebody

31:51

last episode that is coming

31:53

out that it's like this path

31:55

we're put on , we're just our

31:57

hopes get so high . I just think we

31:59

all have this idea in our head of like what

32:02

it's going to be , and then you have to let it go and it's

32:04

like , but who's the one telling you

32:06

that you didn't make it ? Like someone else

32:08

that didn't make it ? I don't . It's like

32:10

such a yeah , and what's making it

32:12

earning $35,000

32:14

a year to teach at a university or

32:17

or let's just let's just say you get your

32:19

dream orchestra job and you're making $100,000

32:22

a year and then next year they're like sorry , we're bankrupt

32:24

, you can't pay you anymore . It's

32:29

a wild thing . I just I love

32:31

all of this and so much . You said

32:33

like , ultimately , when people come away

32:35

from this work that they do with you , that

32:37

they're gaining confidence in

32:40

their own abilities and their

32:42

own path , and that's really

32:44

that's what everybody needs

32:47

in order to do this work . Like

32:49

it's not some magic formula

32:51

of X , y and Z . Yes

32:53

, you can build skills . Skills are important . You have

32:55

to learn the skills . You have to know what skills you need

32:57

in order to do the thing you want to do . But you have

32:59

to believe that if you go it on your own

33:02

, it's going to happen and the struggle

33:04

doesn't end . You know you decide

33:06

to take a path . You're going to have rocky

33:08

moments and you're going to have moments where you're like I don't know

33:10

if this is going to work , and then you keep at it

33:13

and you keep believing in it

33:15

and it sounds so . I swear I say

33:17

this like every few years . You know how

33:19

, when we're kids , there's like that whole

33:21

. Just believe in yourself . You know like believe

33:23

in yourself and when you're a kid you're like okay

33:25

, whatever , yeah , believe in myself , but every few

33:28

years or so I take a moment and I'm understanding

33:30

it on this deeper level . That's like belief

33:33

in your ability to do things is

33:35

what allows you to do things .

33:37

Period . Yeah , it's amazing . Exactly . It's like

33:39

I tell people I use this analogy all the time If

33:41

you go to the doctor and you

33:43

have to have brain surgery and the doctor's like yeah

33:46

, I'm really I'm not that confident

33:48

in my ability to do this thing

33:50

and you know , I'm kind of new at it

33:52

. I've only . I went to medical school

33:54

and I did the stuff Like technically

33:56

I trained Like to beat imposter

33:59

syndrome stuff . It's like if that's how you present

34:01

, do you want to pay that doctor to do

34:04

surgery on your brain and be confident

34:06

in that ?

34:07

Just going back to what we were talking about

34:09

, how you know , it's really hard to pry

34:11

yourself out of these ideas

34:13

of success that you have , and part of it is

34:15

you've worked so hard to hone this

34:18

one aspect of your being

34:20

that is not your whole

34:22

being , and it's hard to realize

34:25

that that you are more than your

34:27

musical abilities . You have strengths

34:29

that are not even related to that and you're not even

34:31

using them like half the time . So

34:34

what would happen if you took

34:36

those musician abilities that you have but you

34:38

also added all the other things

34:40

that you're super strong at ? What would you be able

34:42

to do ? I mean , we really we

34:44

really do put ourselves in these narrow little

34:46

boxes , but there's a lot

34:48

of different ways to use even more of yourself

34:51

to create higher fulfillment and greater

34:53

success , exactly , which is why I think it's so important

34:56

from and I mean my poor private students

34:58

.

34:58

I make them do stuff all the time . You

35:01

know , I'm not even in college . I'm like okay , we're

35:03

creating a concert series , you're in charge of

35:05

programming , you're in charge of venue , you're

35:07

in charge of if we're going to ask for donations or

35:09

not , you know

35:12

, and let's make some leaders who learn

35:14

how to do this stuff from an early age

35:16

. Yes , and

35:18

so I mean musicians . I love medieval

35:20

and renaissance music . That is great

35:22

and all . But how much more powerful

35:24

would it be if you had a project based learning

35:26

class that gets you out in the community and

35:28

makes you have to create something

35:30

in order to generate a potential

35:33

income or at least donations for yourself

35:35

, so you learn those skills . So when you

35:37

get out , you're not just , you don't just have one

35:39

skill that you just know how to play , but you

35:41

don't know how to make money for playing .

35:43

I mean we make Girl Scouts sell cookies .

35:45

Yes , exactly , but you know

35:48

.

35:48

That goes to show you yes , I'm

35:51

a great musician , but I also have organizational

35:53

skills . I can also manage an inventory

35:55

. I can also manage money .

35:57

I can do all these other things .

35:59

But like here I am , like oh , I'm

36:01

not a success because I'm not playing full time

36:03

in an orchestra , right right

36:05

, you know it's so interesting too

36:07

to think about , like both sides of this coin

36:10

where we talk about , and we

36:12

know there are many musicians

36:14

who get the dream job , whether it's

36:16

teaching in this college or the orchestra

36:18

, who say that same thing to you , catherine , who are just

36:20

like miserable . And I'm wondering

36:22

if a huge piece of it is that

36:25

part of what makes us love being

36:27

musicians so much , or what draws us

36:29

to being musicians is the creative

36:31

pursuit . It's the expression of

36:33

your voice , and the more you spend

36:35

, hammered down by whatever bureaucracy

36:38

you're surrounded by , the more limited

36:40

you are , the more you feel tamped down

36:42

and you might not even recognize that that's what's happening . So

36:45

on the other side of that , here we are teaching

36:47

kids in a music studio who may

36:49

not even go into music it's not important , but we're

36:51

teaching them how to use these other

36:53

skills related to their creative

36:55

endeavor . And then a musician who wants to

36:57

go in and be a professional musician one day already

37:00

is thinking about how those skills can

37:02

relate to their creative endeavors

37:04

. And that is the most important

37:06

thing , because whether you're a

37:08

musician in a full-time orchestra or not , you

37:10

have the opportunity to use these skills

37:13

. I mean you could do that even if you have the

37:15

full-time job . If you're miserable on the full-time job

37:17

, what else can you do ?

37:18

Where's your blue ocean ? Right ? Like

37:21

yeah and fun . You know . That's why

37:23

I always say that every music student

37:25

needs to go in with a music and

37:27

you know they need to find the blank

37:29

from the music and and the undergrad is

37:32

all about exploration . Take Javanese

37:34

Gamalon ensemble , you know . Take a finance

37:36

class . Take

37:39

things that are kind of interesting to you

37:41

and see if they are interesting to you and

37:43

then , when you choose your if you go into a master's or

37:45

if you do a gap year or whatever choose a

37:47

place where you can dip your toe into

37:50

that other thing and learn that skill

37:52

too Doesn't mean that you're not going to get the

37:54

job , but it does prepare you

37:56

for the time between you graduate

37:58

and the time you get the job , so that you can

38:00

actually make money doing something

38:02

that you like and doing something

38:05

that can pair really well with music . That

38:07

could open a totally different door for you

38:09

, and you can choose to stay down that traditional

38:11

path , for sure , but at least you have something

38:13

that is marketable , instead of having to go

38:15

outside of the arts and outside of music

38:17

to get to the living .

38:18

Yeah , yeah , it's very powerful . Oh , I love it so

38:20

much . So we know that you've got all

38:22

kinds of irons in the fire , catherine

38:25

. So you have to share with us all

38:27

of the new , like what you're doing to

38:29

help musicians and where they can find you and

38:32

what you're offering , and tell us all those things

38:34

.

38:34

Yes , okay , absolutely so . I'm on Instagram

38:36

. Just my name , Katherine Emeneth , and then

38:39

my team member , Natalie . She actually

38:41

just launched her kind of branch

38:43

of our company , Instagram , called the Limitless

38:45

Musician , where she's going to talk about breaking down all

38:47

of those limits that we talked about earlier . She's

38:50

one of the people that I coached several years ago

38:52

and , really great . I love hiring

38:55

people that I've worked with and that have had success

38:57

, so we're there . We're also on Facebook . We

38:59

have a group called Classical Musicianier , which

39:01

is about musicians who engineer their career

39:03

, and we offer a little advice and discussion

39:06

stuff like that . As far as like our online

39:08

things , we have several . We have so many

39:10

freebies on our website , like so

39:12

many , and the website right now is KatherineEmeneth . com

39:15

, so I have stuff on there about starting

39:17

private studios , downloads for music

39:19

teachers with things that they can use , mindset

39:21

stuff , et cetera . And then for if

39:23

folks are looking to get involved with us more in

39:26

coaching , in a couple of weeks we're

39:28

going to open up enrollment again for our

39:30

coaching program , the Music Teachers Playbook

39:32

, which is for private music development

39:35

. For sure , it's like we hold your hand and

39:37

help youth through all these blocks and barriers

39:39

to create a fulfilling career teaching

39:41

privately . But the cool part about

39:44

it is that the skills that you learn

39:46

in there apply to anything apply

39:48

to marketing yourself as a freelancer

39:50

if you want to start an ensemble , anything

39:53

and everything , and that's why graduates always come back

39:55

to us and say , okay , I want to do this thing next

39:57

, you know , and are excited about being able to see

39:59

the next thing . So those are the things that we have

40:01

coming up , and I also offer free

40:03

strategy calls for you know people who are in music

40:06

school who are really unsure . They see

40:08

that ends of their studies

40:10

coming up and they just need a little help and a little

40:12

coaching . So I do that totally for free

40:14

, just to like talk to people and get to know

40:16

them and provide a little insight into their

40:18

situation , and so that's on the

40:21

side as well , and we've had a couple of new

40:23

things that are being cooked up right now , so

40:25

I'm not going to share about that , right now , but people

40:27

can follow us to find out

40:29

more about that .

40:30

Very cool Congratulations on all these things

40:32

. I remember a classical musician here

40:34

was like one of the first things I

40:36

think we found when we were

40:38

getting rolling with the podcast now

40:40

over three years ago , and it was just like

40:42

it's so nice to see this whole

40:45

world of entrepreneurial musicians

40:47

opening themselves up , showing the

40:49

world who they are , offering their own expertise

40:52

, their own experience , their own knowledge

40:54

and wisdom with other musicians

40:56

who are looking to pursue this path , because I

40:59

feel like the more this community expands

41:01

, the better for our industry , just

41:04

in general . So it's yeah

41:06

.

41:06

Absolutely For the perpetuation

41:09

of our industry it needs to grow

41:11

not shrink Exactly .

41:13

Thanks for being a part of that world . Yes , absolutely

41:15

, it's been really , really cool .

41:17

Thanks for making time for us today . Thank you , Katherine

41:19

.

41:22

Thank you so much for listening today . If you

41:24

loved this episode , consider writing us

41:26

a five-star review on Apple podcasts

41:28

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41:32

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41:34

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41:35

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41:49

Our theme music was written and produced

41:51

by JP . Wogerman and is performed

41:53

by Steph and Myself .

41:54

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41:56

and edited by Emily McMahon .

41:58

Thanks again for listening . Let's talk soon

42:00

. Now .