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Ball engine running. I could change it.

1:20

Get this. Well Welcome. This is

1:22

a show where we bring science. What that means

1:25

is discovery responses. and research.

1:28

Technology, unbelievable. Without

1:30

further ado, this is the naked scientist.

1:34

Hello, and welcome to the naked scientists.

1:36

I'm Will Tingle. And in the program this

1:38

week, the plastic that sterilizes itself,

1:41

why sweeteners are worse for you than sugar and

1:44

how will Seagrax react to climate

1:46

change. The naked scientist

1:48

podcast is powered by UK

1:50

Fast co dot u k.

2:00

James

2:01

Dyson of Cyclone Vacuum

2:03

Clean Fame runs an international design

2:05

award competition that's intended to inspire

2:07

the next generation of design

2:09

engineers. In his words, it's a

2:11

chance for budding inventors to make a name

2:13

for themselves. The results from the latest

2:15

round have recently been announced. and the UK's

2:18

winner was an entry from a team at Imperial

2:20

College and the Royal College of Art.

2:22

The

2:22

concept they've come up with is called Dotplot.

2:24

and it's a handheld device to help women perform

2:27

breast self examination. Deborah

2:28

Babaloa told Christmas what

2:30

inspired them to come up with the concept in the

2:32

first place and how it works. Doppel

2:34

is all about eliminating the

2:37

confusion and the misconceptions around

2:39

performing breast subjects. there

2:42

are lots of tools out there to help people monitor

2:44

different aspects of their health. When it

2:46

comes to Breast Health in particular, there

2:48

aren't any at home solutions or devices

2:51

that people can use to keep on top

2:53

of what is going on within their breast tissue.

2:55

And it's quite important obviously because breast cancer

2:57

is so prominent. And

2:59

of course, as the the earlier you detect

3:02

any developments within your breast, the better.

3:04

And people are relying on things like

3:06

pamphlets and demonstrations and tutorials,

3:09

which are quite limited in the guidance that they could

3:11

provide. And so there's lots of different methods

3:13

out there. It can be really confusing. People don't really

3:15

know what they're supposed to be checking or or where they're

3:17

supposed to check or how they're supposed to do it. we

3:19

were just worried to make that process as clear as

3:21

possible. And how have you done that?

3:23

So we've developed doclot, which is

3:25

a tool that women can use to check

3:27

their breasts each month. It basically brings

3:29

together a device and

3:32

a mobile app, and it will guide you through

3:34

the self check step by step. So

3:36

what we have is that you would put in your

3:38

general health information on the app. So

3:40

you

3:40

have your menstrual cycle, your age, or that kind

3:43

of thing. to

3:43

help predict the best time for you to be doing

3:45

these soft checks. And then you will

3:48

build a of your upper chest

3:50

or your torso using

3:52

the device, you would select your breast

3:54

shape putting your bra size and then

3:56

use the device to rescale

3:58

the baseline model that we've got of a

4:00

of a standard torso. And once

4:02

that's sorted out, we will guide you through the self

4:04

check by

4:05

flashing on the point that you need to

4:07

press the device on. And then once you've checked over

4:09

that point, you'll go on to the next part of

4:11

your breast and then the next part and the next part until you've

4:13

covered all of the regions that need

4:15

chicken over.

4:16

So I'm thinking I've got

4:18

a mobile phone in one hand. your

4:20

Gizmo in the other hand that I'm gonna use

4:22

to do the self check. How big is the

4:25

device that actually does the the registration

4:27

and analysis of your tissue as

4:29

you move it over your body. Well, if

4:31

it's within the palm of your hand, it's similar to the

4:33

size of a, you know, like an average bar

4:34

of soap. And that is

4:36

talking to your mobile device.

4:39

Yes. It is.

4:40

And so what the

4:42

the phone is doing the processing and

4:44

telling the device

4:46

record now and the the device is doing

4:48

what exactly to make the

4:50

measurements? Oh,

4:51

so the device is what's kind of speaking

4:54

to the So the device

4:56

has is it will be emitting sound waves,

4:58

which

4:58

will then be used to take readings of the breast

5:00

tissue. So you press it against your chest

5:03

It will take the reading, and

5:05

then that will be recorded in the phone.

5:07

How do the sound waves tell

5:10

what's underneath the surface of the

5:12

skin?

5:12

your recipes will kind of act as a filter.

5:15

And because the device

5:17

will be pre trained on a

5:20

wipe, say, like a thousand women And

5:22

so we would have traded to say, okay, this

5:24

is what this the readings will

5:26

be like if there is a lump present or if there

5:28

isn't anything present And so depending

5:30

on what the density of your tissue is underneath

5:32

that point that you're checking over, the readings

5:34

will be different.

5:35

Is it a bit like when you

5:37

go for a baby scan and we use ultrasound.

5:40

It's using sound waves and looking at the

5:42

echoes that come back to work out

5:44

the underlying profile of the tissue.

5:46

Exactly. That says, yes, it's very similar to

5:48

UltraSign. It just uses a different

5:50

frequency.

5:51

How good is it? picking

5:54

up the architecture of the tissue.

5:56

So right now, we haven't actually tested it

5:58

on human

5:59

tissue at

5:59

the moment. but we have done it

6:02

on, like, breast models that we've made within

6:04

the labs and that we've embedded lumps

6:06

between three

6:07

millimeters to eight millimeters within the

6:10

models of the breast tissue. And it's been

6:12

able to identify every lump

6:14

and also find differences between

6:16

areas that do have lumps and then areas that don't. And

6:18

that's that ninety

6:18

percent accuracy for detecting whether there is a

6:21

log present. But

6:21

the next step would then be testing on

6:24

women.

6:24

how deeply do you think it will

6:26

be able to see into the tissue? because obviously

6:28

women come in different shapes and sizes. There are

6:30

some very small breasts. Some women have

6:32

very large breasts and that could

6:34

be a challenge. Couldn't it getting it to see deeply

6:36

enough?

6:37

Yeah. Definitely. But I think that's also why we want

6:39

women to be applying pressure their

6:41

breasts as well. So it kind of flattens the

6:43

area that needs to that the

6:45

distance that the sideways will need to cross,

6:47

but also we're trying to do it so

6:50

no matter

6:50

how big your breasts are, it can reach the front

6:52

of your ribcage. You mentioned

6:54

earlier that you put in your menstrual cycle. I

6:56

mean, that's important, isn't it? Because breasts and

6:58

breast tissue goes through cycles

7:01

of of growth and then shrinkage.

7:03

During the menstrual cycle, which can be

7:05

confusing, it can make your breast feel lumpy

7:07

from time to time. So is there not a

7:09

danger with this that it could make

7:11

some people into worried well?

7:14

Yeah. So that's why we

7:16

actually yeah. So we ask for the the

7:18

details of your menstrual cycle, so we can tell

7:20

you the best time for you to do it.

7:23

So so most DP's recommend that you do a

7:25

self like few days after your you've

7:26

had your period because then your like

7:28

all the chemicals and hormones are more relaxed within

7:30

your breast tissue and that they tend to be less lumpy.

7:33

that's kind of why we want to take that information

7:35

so we can predict the best time for you

7:37

to prevent picking up any lumps that

7:39

aren't really problematic. That's

7:41

also why we compare monthly readings

7:43

just to make sure that if there are, you

7:46

know,

7:46

changes that you need to be aware, we'll be flag those.

7:48

And if the if it is just a lump that's, you

7:50

know, lumpy because your breasts are lumpy during the

7:52

month, where

7:53

it is not likely that you'll pick that up in the

7:55

following month. So you would effectively

7:58

get a profile, which

7:59

it can compare one month with the next.

8:02

And if you've got an area that might be a bit

8:04

sinister, it's gonna say, well, that

8:06

hasn't changed. This is the one to look

8:08

at, and then I suppose you could take that to

8:10

your GP and say, I'm a bit worried about this

8:12

area. Could you have a look

8:14

as well?

8:15

Yeah, that's exactly it. That's exactly what we

8:17

would do. So, yeah, you're comparing them and they were highlighting

8:19

any changes and encouraging people to go

8:21

to get the checks clinically if the changes

8:23

do persist.

8:24

Given that you've got this working

8:27

potentially for for one very important

8:29

part of the body, there are others that

8:31

also we're encouraged to self examine men

8:34

are encouraged, especially young men to examine

8:36

their testicles to make sure they haven't got

8:38

testicular cancer. It strikes me that you

8:40

could do the same thing with that, couldn't

8:41

you? Absolutely, yes. That is one of the goals. I think

8:43

once we've got the technology working

8:46

really well for detecting

8:48

lumps within breast tissue, you definitely want to adapt

8:50

to early detection of other cancers and

8:52

diseases as well. So, yes, that is that is the

8:54

goal. Deborah

8:55

Babylon. on her Dyson Award winning

8:58

concept dot plot. Now, much

9:00

of the food drink we consume these days contains

9:02

artificial sweeteners. They most commonly

9:04

appear in sugar free soft drinks. tabletop

9:06

sweeteners for our teas and coffees, and dairy

9:08

products like yogurt. These chemicals

9:10

and additives allow food companies to

9:12

make products which have a sweet taste without

9:15

pumping them full of sugar. But now, a

9:17

study published in the British Medical Journal

9:19

connects a high rate of consumption of these

9:21

sweeteners with cardiovascular diseases

9:23

among a hundred and seventy one thousand

9:25

French participants. James Tikko

9:27

spoke with Matil Tuvier, Doctor in

9:29

Epidemiology and Public Health, and

9:31

principal investigator of the

9:33

Nutranet sante cohort.

9:35

During follow-up, about one

9:37

thousand and five hundred incident cardiovascular

9:40

diseases occurred. And to

9:42

give you an idea in the group of

9:44

the highest consumers in

9:46

this cohort, there was the equivalent

9:48

of three hundred and forty six incident

9:50

cases for one hundred

9:52

thousand participants year

9:54

followed compared to the

9:56

equivalent of three hundred and four teen

9:59

cases in the non consumer

10:01

group. And really the

10:03

important point here is that the

10:05

association between artificial sweeteners

10:07

and increased cannabis policies risk

10:09

was robust and statistically significant

10:11

in alternative obesity analysis

10:13

models. I read

10:13

recently that around half

10:16

an average person in the UK's

10:18

calorie intake is ultra

10:20

processed food and drink, and that's food

10:22

that's most likely to contain these

10:24

artificial sweeteners. Yes, in

10:25

France, the proportion of energy

10:28

brought by ultrafastest food is more

10:30

about thirty percent thirty five

10:32

percent so lower than in the UK

10:34

or the U. S. for instance, which

10:36

is more of fifty, fifty

10:38

eight percent But

10:40

yes, indeed participants who

10:42

enter this cohort also tends to

10:44

have globally,

10:44

healthier, have behaviors and

10:47

also dietary intake. So we

10:49

make the hypothesis that in the

10:51

real life in the red population setting and maybe

10:53

in the UK, we would have

10:55

even higher amounts of

10:57

exposures to ultrafastestude and

10:59

so maybe the SSO stations

11:01

in real life would be even stronger than

11:03

the one we observed in the cohorts.

11:05

Yet it's still an hypothesis

11:07

that we will never be able to to

11:10

verify, but yes, it would be possible

11:12

to think about that.

11:12

It seems to me there's a growing body

11:14

of evidence to suggest that

11:17

ultra processed food is having a severely

11:19

negative impact on public health, and a lot of these

11:21

diseases are related, aren't they

11:23

obesity and cardiovascular

11:25

disease? But yet,

11:27

they're still so prevalent in all

11:29

of our diets. When are the food

11:32

standards agencies going to do

11:34

something about this public health

11:36

disaster it feels like we're sleepwalking

11:38

into.

11:39

Research interest in ultra precious food

11:41

and so the epidemiological studies

11:43

about that are quite recent.

11:46

We now have about fifty

11:48

studies showing associations between

11:50

utterances food and other's health outcomes.

11:53

Yes, indeed evidence is accumulating.

11:55

We still don't know exactly

11:57

and precisely within these auto

11:59

processed food. What are the subs tenses, the the

12:01

type of food additives or other substances

12:04

contaminants during processes or

12:06

contaminants from food packaging and

12:08

so on. which substances

12:10

may cause problems. So this is really

12:12

what we want to investigate now and

12:14

to advance knowledge on this

12:16

topic. Even if we don't know exactly

12:18

where the problem comes from from

12:20

which substances and so on to reduce this

12:22

overall intake, there are already

12:24

some countries in Brazil,

12:26

in France, which already

12:28

introduced in their official recommendation,

12:30

the fact that atropsis food

12:32

intake should be reduced in the population.

12:34

This is one type of action recommendation

12:36

to the population, but the other one would

12:38

be to act on the regulation of

12:40

the products. it can't be

12:42

to four meters or to process this is

12:44

why we need some precise

12:46

research saying this type

12:48

of molecules, this type of additives and

12:50

so on may cause a risk of

12:52

the population.

12:53

Are there any potential obstacles

12:55

in the way of limiting

12:58

presence

12:58

of these additives. I'm imagining

13:01

some potential corporate interests

13:03

that might slow the progress.

13:06

Even

13:06

when scientific evidence is

13:08

very, very strong, which is not

13:10

the case for the moment. I mean,

13:12

with this only study, but in

13:15

the topic, when we begin to have more and more

13:17

scientific evidence, there is

13:19

often barriers from

13:21

powerful lobbies and the food industry

13:23

that don't want things to change

13:25

and see this type of results

13:27

that are not in line with their

13:29

their economic interest. So it's not

13:31

always easy. We really had the case

13:33

currently with the the food labeled Nutriscore.

13:35

this food label provides an overall idea

13:37

of the nutritional quality of the food product.

13:39

And so it's very useful for citizens that

13:42

don't have the time to read the labels

13:44

which are very complicated and so on. So

13:46

here at the glance, you have the idea of

13:48

the the nutritional quality of the

13:50

food. with a very simple

13:52

color label. And so there is a

13:54

strong battle between tie ins which

13:56

validated this logo

13:58

with epidemiological

13:59

study experimental studies showing that

14:01

participants have are more

14:03

inclined to select food healthier

14:05

for their health. They they understand

14:07

more the the the way that could

14:09

rank produce against – according to value

14:11

to small quality. But yet,

14:13

there is a strong barrier by the

14:15

food industries really don't want this

14:18

logo to be put on impact. So and

14:20

here, of course, with food additives, we

14:23

have the same kind of propositions. with

14:25

some industrial, but yes, don't

14:27

don't want to remove this and it is from their

14:29

process. And so it's not always

14:31

easy to obtain to win

14:33

the battle of public health against

14:35

economic interests. Matilda

14:36

II VA. A spread of

14:38

infections in healthcare settings is a

14:40

major problem. Dirty hands are one

14:42

source But equally, surfaces like

14:44

gloves and aprons and other single use plastics

14:46

can also pick up and pass on bacteria

14:48

and viruses through contact. As

14:50

he explains to Chris Smith, Andrew Mills

14:53

from Queen's University Belfast

14:55

had the bright idea of adding something to

14:57

plastic that reacts with light to

14:59

produce a bleach like substance on the

15:01

surface. that can wipe out contaminating

15:03

microbes.

15:04

I knew that there

15:06

was an awful lot of disposable

15:09

plastic material that were used in the

15:11

healthcare industry that

15:14

provided a clean surface but

15:16

rapidly got contaminated. And of course, I

15:18

also knew that one of the major

15:20

ways to viruses and bacteria

15:22

aren't transmitted in a healthcare

15:24

environment is by landing on the

15:26

surface and then you touching that surface.

15:28

So

15:28

I wanted to imbue

15:31

these

15:31

plastic disposable materials

15:35

with extra value, and that

15:37

value will be the ability

15:39

to self sterilize.

15:41

Hell,

15:41

it's really neat. You can put

15:43

into them. Pigment particles

15:45

really inexpensive the basic

15:47

pigment particles used in pain that's

15:49

containing dioxide. But in

15:51

pain, they actually coat the pigment

15:53

particles so that they don't actually do

15:55

any photochemistry. That means they

15:57

don't interact with light and then generate

15:59

things on their

15:59

surface that would do damage to the polymer

16:03

because you don't want your paint falling off.

16:06

But here, we do. We want

16:08

those pigment particles to

16:10

actually absorb light and

16:12

then destroy anything that's

16:14

on itself or so.

16:15

that's what we do. We use naked

16:18

to

16:18

tame ducks up rabbit holes, put them into

16:20

plastic,

16:21

and they're able to destroy

16:23

viruses and bacteria, in particular,

16:26

most vulnerable these days. SARS

16:28

too.

16:28

Something similar has been done

16:31

with self cleaning glass. I

16:33

think King's gas station in London was

16:35

one of the first places to do this where

16:37

by adding titanium dioxide

16:39

particles to the glass, it then reacts with the

16:41

ambient light to produce nasties that

16:43

that blitz the dirt. So you you basically

16:45

been dowing a plastic bag with what they

16:47

did at Kings Cross. Exactly.

16:49

The difference is that at

16:51

King's cross station, the sunlight

16:54

shines, hopefully, summer the year

16:56

on the glass. your

16:59

plastics, if they're in a a clinical setting

17:01

as you're advocating for, they're gonna have

17:03

just artificial light. Is

17:05

there enough energy in that light to

17:07

make this work. That's a really

17:09

good point. The interesting

17:10

thing about these pigments

17:13

is they really don't need very much

17:15

to make them quite reactive

17:17

and certainly reactive enough to generate

17:19

the small level of bleach

17:22

which is affecting what does on

17:24

the

17:24

surface to destroy a virus

17:26

or a bacterium. You only

17:28

need to damage them before they

17:31

die. So the question is is, look,

17:33

is there enough? And the answer is,

17:35

yeah, there's window light and there's a

17:37

bit of UV light that comes in

17:39

there. But also, a lot of fluorescent tubes

17:42

were old fluorescent tubes.

17:44

Actually, I made a small amount of UV.

17:46

And so when we were doing our trials,

17:48

we were using room light

17:50

for us and lamps and and

17:52

very low UV light associated with

17:54

that coming through windows. One of the things

17:56

that really surprised us was

17:59

Both

17:59

worked, but

17:59

actually the room light one really were.

18:02

We thought it was gonna be so small because there

18:04

really is like micro watts per

18:06

centimeter squared. of

18:07

UV falling onto the surfaces.

18:10

But actually, they seem to use them

18:12

very well, and then it was

18:14

sufficient to destroy the kind of levels of

18:16

bacteria and viruses the

18:18

chemistry that's going on then, the UV

18:20

light that's coming from whatever source

18:22

hits this titanium dioxide. How

18:24

does it then turn into u dubbed

18:27

it bleach. What does it do when it hits the titanium

18:29

dioxide to then produce something

18:31

capable of destroying microorganisms?

18:35

So

18:35

when you shine light onto these pigment

18:38

particles, you create bleach

18:40

like molecules

18:41

that can destroy viruses

18:43

and bacteria. And

18:45

what sorts of

18:46

microorganisms will they knock

18:48

out in in your plastics? We

18:51

tried it with SARS2 and

18:53

it worked very well for that and also the

18:56

influenza virus. We looked at

18:58

some other viruses as well. It actually

19:00

worked for all of them. Can you

19:02

turn the

19:03

plastic into a range of

19:06

different things. Is it

19:08

actually plastic that you could use the same

19:10

way we we love using plastic

19:12

you can turn it into any kind of shape size or characteristic

19:14

within reason. You can.

19:16

And many people a lot of people have

19:18

used the same technology to create things

19:21

like mobile phone

19:23

covers and keyboards

19:25

for computers.

19:26

We're not so much in

19:29

favor of that because Once

19:31

you start handling it,

19:33

you put

19:34

on sufficient coating

19:36

of all the sweat and no grease

19:38

and whatever it is. that

19:40

you've got in your fingers, but then

19:42

it overwhelms the ability of

19:44

this material to keep itself clean.

19:47

disposable plastic materials where

19:49

you're worried about the micro droplets that

19:51

are coming from your breath falling on

19:54

it.

19:54

and then transmitting

19:56

those viruses or bacteria to

19:58

some other

19:59

person. This is what this technology

20:02

is targeted. is

20:03

it easy to do, Andrew

20:05

-- Yeah. -- to make this

20:07

because obviously one of the big attractions of

20:09

plastics and one of the reasons it's such a

20:12

skurge now is because it's really cheap. So

20:14

does this enormously increase

20:16

the cost burden of making these things? Or is

20:18

it more easy to do? I'm sorry.

20:20

I can't interrupt you because of my enthusiasm

20:22

for it. We use extrusion

20:24

to make these. There's nothing

20:27

special about this. you just when you're

20:29

making this thing, instead of adding

20:31

one pigment, you add

20:33

a photoactive pigment.

20:35

that's

20:36

the only difference. And the photo

20:38

active pigment is that

20:40

used or behind it? Is that used in

20:42

paint? So it's incredibly inexpensive. it

20:44

will not add any great

20:46

cost to a penny menu, maybe even

20:49

less than that, to wall up the

20:51

existing cost of that April and

20:53

the laptop clock that that curtain is at

20:55

present. The beauty of this is

20:56

it has this extra value, this

20:58

extra ability to keep you

21:00

safe and well. Andrew Mills.

21:03

The

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Music in the program is sponsored by

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video productions. You're listening to the naked

21:30

scientist with me will tingle still to come,

21:32

new antibiotics that grow on

21:34

trees. But first, the ocean.

21:36

fragile but vital source of

21:38

food and carbon storage, and a major

21:40

contributor to both of these elements

21:42

is Seagrass. But with a

21:44

rapidly changing climate, how will this

21:46

vital habitat react to an increase

21:48

in ocean temperature and

21:50

acidity, Emmett Duffy from the

21:52

Smithsonian institution spoke to

21:54

me about the importance of seagrances to both

21:56

marine ecosystems and humans

21:58

alike, as well as new research

22:00

highlighting how climatic pressures could

22:02

affect their populations going forward.

22:04

I

22:04

think of seagruses as the serengeti

22:06

of the sea. These are big

22:08

expanses of underwater grasslands.

22:11

that are also highly productive and

22:13

support lots of wildlife as grasslands

22:15

do on land. And

22:17

the foundation of these ecosystems

22:20

are seagruses. These are not algae or

22:22

seaweed, but flowering plants with

22:24

roots that invaded the sea millions

22:26

of years ago. They are critical

22:28

to ocean wildlife lots

22:30

of large animals, do goons,

22:32

manatees, sea turtles depend on seagrasses.

22:34

They're also essential nurseries

22:37

for fishes. And particularly in parts

22:39

of the developing world, many

22:41

people in coastal regions get a

22:43

large part of their protein

22:46

from from fishes and

22:48

shellfish that that live in seagrass

22:50

beds. And finally, they

22:52

soak up carbon that our industrial

22:54

society is exhaling into

22:56

the atmosphere. So there's a lot of interest

22:58

in so called blue carbon captured

23:01

by seagruses. In

23:02

the research paper, it's stated that there are

23:04

two populations of Eelgrass, one

23:07

found in the Pacific, and one found in

23:09

the Atlantic. what is sort of so

23:11

notably distinct between these two

23:13

populations and how is that difference found?

23:15

Yeah. A big

23:16

surprise from

23:18

our research was finding

23:20

how different the Seagrass looked in

23:22

the two oceans. Eelco grass

23:24

is distributed globally around

23:26

the northern hemisphere here. And

23:29

so understanding what

23:31

makes it tick is a global

23:33

problem and we needed a global team. So

23:35

we got fifty of our

23:37

colleagues around the world together to

23:39

sample the eographs using

23:41

the same methods. So it would be comparable.

23:44

and we measured both the size

23:46

and density and shape

23:48

of the yield graphs, but also

23:50

the genetic structure. we've

23:53

known that there is a

23:55

lot of genetic separation among

23:57

various populations of eelgrass,

23:59

which occurs all over the northern hemisphere here.

24:02

But we found that

24:04

the sea grass in the Atlantic was

24:06

consistently shorter and denser. It

24:08

lives in what we would call meadows. Whereas

24:10

in much of the Pacific,

24:12

it's closer to to forests. And

24:14

was there any noticeable difference

24:17

between the genetic strength

24:19

between the two populations? Yes. So,

24:22

yieldgrass originated, it

24:24

evolved originally in the Pacific

24:26

Ocean, and there's lots of

24:28

genetic variation there because that's its ancestral

24:31

homeland, so to speak. And then

24:33

sometime during the pleistocene

24:35

between ice ages, the

24:39

eelgrass moved through the arctic

24:41

in and colonized the Atlantic.

24:43

And that probably involved only

24:45

a small number of plants because

24:48

the genetic diversity of

24:50

eographs in the Atlantic is much

24:52

smaller than it is in the

24:54

Pacific. And what we found

24:56

is that much smaller genetic

24:58

variation in the Atlantic is

25:00

associated with this

25:02

meadow like growth form. And

25:04

so probably what happened

25:06

is that the pioneers who

25:09

made it across the difficult journey

25:11

through the Arctic were

25:13

small stature plants. metoforming

25:16

plants from the edge of the Pacific.

25:18

So with these two separate populations,

25:20

if one is less genetically

25:22

diverse or complex, than one other

25:25

region. Do you think that the population

25:27

in the Atlantic may be at more risk

25:29

from climate change or

25:31

other dangers to their existence?

25:33

What we know is that the growth form of

25:35

the old grass in the Atlantic seems

25:38

to be constrained to being relatively

25:41

short. However, the

25:43

good news is that yogurt is

25:45

highly adaptable. It lives in all

25:47

kinds of environments from open

25:49

ocean coasts to the inner

25:51

Baltic Sea and from the to Baja

25:53

California, for example. So

25:55

it seems to be able to

25:57

adapt reasonably well to

26:00

different climates. It should be

26:02

able to make it very well if

26:04

we can control water

26:07

quality and overfishing. these

26:09

seagruses sound like essential

26:11

parts of the ecosystem to protect if

26:13

they're so vital to marine

26:15

ecosystems and to our own food supplies. So

26:18

what is the best course of action that you

26:20

or I could do to help preserve these

26:22

Seagraas colonies? The

26:23

biggest threat to yield

26:26

grass and other seagruses throughout

26:28

most of the world is coastal

26:30

development and particularly poor

26:32

water quality. These plants

26:34

need a lot of light so they need

26:36

clear water. And they only grow for in most

26:38

places in relatively shallow water.

26:40

And we've seen success stories

26:43

in Chesapeake Bay, in the United States,

26:45

in Tampa Bay, in the

26:47

United States, in a few other places

26:50

where controlling runoff

26:52

and pollution of the water has allowed

26:54

the seagrasses to rebound and

26:57

grow it back again. So the best

26:59

thing we can do is keep the water clear. And that

27:01

has lots of other benefits as well.

27:03

Emmett Duffy, whose

27:03

paper was published in the proceedings of the

27:06

National Academy of Sciences. The

27:08

announcement that scientists have uncovered a new family of

27:11

antimicrobial compounds that are produced by the

27:13

Australian Blushwood Tree is welcome

27:15

news in the fight against a

27:17

rising tide of antibiotic resistance.

27:19

Very few new antibiotic drugs

27:21

have been developed in recent years for

27:23

various reasons, meaning that we're an increasing danger

27:25

of succumbing to infection we can no longer

27:28

treat. In tests, the new agents

27:30

killed a broad swath of disease causing

27:32

bacterias, but not only that, They're

27:34

also very effective at dismantling the

27:36

protective biofilm that bacterial

27:38

communities use to defend themselves from

27:40

drugs and the immune system. This means

27:42

that these new agents can help make

27:44

bacteria vulnerable to other antibiotics

27:46

and they boost the immune response and

27:48

healing power of the tissues at

27:50

wound sites. speaking with Chris Smith and from the

27:52

QIMR Bergamo Medical Research

27:54

Institute, Jason Cullen. Essentially,

27:56

what these

27:56

molecules do is to

27:59

disrupts these biofilm

27:59

structures, but then they can also stimulate

28:02

very good immune response, which

28:04

enables a wound to sort of reset itself, and

28:06

then you get a good wound immune response.

28:08

Tell us

28:09

a bit more about these compounds then,

28:11

where do they come from? One of

28:13

our collaborators, I was quite interested

28:16

in deriving therapeutics from the Australian

28:18

rainforest. They came across these compounds

28:20

initially as oncology agents,

28:22

but It turns out that they

28:24

they also work quite well in chronic

28:26

wounds. They've derived from

28:28

a Australian rainforest

28:31

tree, roots and nuts, What

28:33

does the

28:33

plant do with these compounds? Why does it

28:35

make them? They act as a bit of a deterrent

28:38

to animals. On the floor, so on the

28:40

fruit drops off the tree. They leave the fruit, but

28:42

then they'll end up leaving the nuts alone.

28:44

But maybe they also have other

28:47

benefits within the seed itself in

28:49

order to stop any microbial sort of degradation of

28:51

the nuts. How did

28:54

you pursue it then? Once you had these

28:56

compounds, how did you start

28:58

to try to piece together what they could do

29:00

against microbes. Originally, it

29:02

wasn't anything to do around

29:05

microbes but what our collaborators notice is that one of

29:07

these similar looking

29:09

compounds, which is being used to

29:11

treat tumors after it treated

29:13

the tumor, you've got this very nice wound healing response.

29:15

There's also data from

29:17

veterinary studies suggesting

29:20

that this class of compound could actually

29:22

close heart to heal wounds in

29:24

animals. And so we've

29:26

set about trying to understand

29:28

if, you know, they would have some

29:30

applicability in chronic wings in the lab

29:32

and ultimately help develop

29:34

this for human applications. So

29:37

if it promotes wound healing, is

29:39

it doing that just because it suppresses

29:42

invading microorganisms that

29:44

irritate the wound? Or is it

29:46

also doing something to the animal tissue

29:48

that makes that more likely

29:50

to

29:50

heal. Yeah. We think they

29:51

work or a number of different

29:54

mechanisms. One of them is that a

29:56

appears to disrupt the bacteria and biofilm.

29:58

They're not actually antibiotic in a sense

30:00

that they don't actually directly kill

30:03

the bacteria. that they

30:05

just disrupt these structures. And

30:07

the other activities that we found

30:09

here is that they can

30:11

also stimulate a very good immune response.

30:14

addition to that, they seem to induce

30:16

changes in the skin

30:18

resident cells, which promotes a

30:20

very good sort of wind

30:22

immune response. So we think it's a

30:24

mixture of all of these activities which come

30:26

together to help promote the

30:28

closure of wounds. do they

30:30

work against all classes of

30:32

bugs? Or are they quite

30:34

discreet? Because different

30:35

horses run on different courses when it

30:37

comes to antibiotics. and some are

30:39

very good at treating some classes of microbes and

30:42

absolutely use this against others. Is

30:44

this a comprehensive effect or are they

30:46

quite focused? We found that

30:47

the actual main one that we're interested

30:50

in can actually disrupt a lot of

30:52

gram negative and some gram

30:54

positive biofilings as well. obviously,

30:56

they don't work on everything, but there's quite a

30:58

broad selection that they do work on. And

31:01

the

31:02

resistance problem I mean,

31:05

that's ostensibly why you're going down

31:07

this path. Yeah.

31:07

So we think that these will help

31:10

sort of circumvent

31:12

the resist problem because they're

31:14

targeting bacterial virulence rather

31:16

than the growth and survival of

31:18

the bacteria. So in

31:20

that sense, it sort of reduces the natural

31:23

for the development of antibiotic

31:25

resistance. Jason Cohen. And

31:26

that's where we must leave it for this episode. Join

31:29

us later in the week when we will be taking you

31:31

on a tour of the city of science.

31:33

Trieste allegedly has more scientists per

31:35

head of population than anywhere else on

31:37

the planet. Chris and James have been over there to see

31:39

it for themselves. If you'd like to get in touch, in

31:41

the meantime, please do drop us a line at chris

31:43

at naked scientist dot com. Your thoughts and

31:46

feedback are very much appreciated. And if you'd

31:48

like to support the program, donations are

31:50

most welcome. You can do that at make it

31:52

scientist dot com slash

31:54

donate The naked scientist comes to you from the University

31:56

of Cambridge's Institute of Continuing

31:58

Education. It's supported by Rolls

31:59

Royce. I'm Will Tingle. Thanks for

32:02

listening and until next time. Goodbye.

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