0:02

This is a global player.

0:04

Original podcast move booster. As

0:07

you can tell I'm sad

0:09

that my time is first

0:11

minister as ending but I

0:13

am so grateful and so

0:16

blessed for having the opportunity

0:18

afforded to show few to

0:20

lead to my country and

0:22

who could ask for a

0:25

better country to leave that

0:27

Scotland. That

0:30

was hims isa. Scotland's.

0:32

First minister. Resigning. At.

0:34

Missing that, he'd taken steps

0:36

miscalculations that had essentially paved

0:38

the way to his downfall

0:40

when he fired those two

0:42

Green members of the cabinet

0:45

last week. It's hard to

0:47

believe now, but only eighteen months to

0:49

years ago, the Smp look completely dominant,

0:51

politically impregnable in Scotland. And yet here

0:53

we are to resign First minister's later

0:55

staring down the barrel of a third.

0:58

What does uses resignation me for the

1:00

Snp and Y O mean for the

1:02

General election? not only in Scotland but

1:04

in the rest of the Uk as

1:06

well. Welcome. To the news agency. The

1:12

news agents. It's

1:15

Emily. It's Louis and Sopel.

1:17

John Sopel is on the oyster

1:19

but. Breaking his he's not on holiday

1:22

are we know? Of course. either way,

1:24

how bigoted not to be hick massive

1:26

political. It's a. Big day. We're

1:28

not laughing. Were laughing at the fact that no,

1:30

One always misses the a new. Ones them

1:32

is a big. Breaking. News

1:34

Story and that is basically what

1:36

we've got this morning. because at

1:39

twelve o'clock Hamza Yusuf was back

1:41

in Butte house. In. The

1:43

official residence of the First Minister

1:45

Scotland, and he gave the speech

1:48

that had been predicted. Over

1:50

the last twenty four hours. But

1:52

until that point. No. One

1:55

really thought he would go.

1:57

They. Realize he was facing and confidence.

2:00

They realize the numbers with tight and

2:02

he sat down and dead them us

2:04

is Linda be job some would say.

2:07

If he can't count as all over. And

2:09

he got to a place where in his own words he

2:11

says he would have had to make. compromises he

2:13

didn't want. To make. And so

2:15

he decided to leave with his

2:17

integrity intact. Unfortunately, and games

2:20

and the bill has agreements

2:22

in the manner I did.

2:24

I really underestimated the level

2:26

of hearts and upset that

2:29

caused green costs for a

2:31

minority government to be able

2:33

to govern effectively and efficiently.

2:36

Sauced when working with your

2:38

position is clearly fundamental. And

2:41

while of groups who the speaks

2:44

motion of me confidence was absolutely

2:46

possible. I. Am

2:48

not willing to treat my

2:50

values and principles or the

2:52

deals with whomever simply sort

2:54

of to me power. There

2:57

for after spending the weekend deflating

3:00

or is best for my party,

3:02

for the government and for the

3:05

country. I mean, I've concluded that

3:07

repeating a relationship across the political

3:09

debate can only be times the

3:12

someone else at the helm. So.

3:14

Hamza Yusuf has gone Nicholas dozens successor,

3:17

chosen successor in many ways his first

3:19

minister. He was very politically close to

3:21

her and just reminds you kind of

3:23

like the background to this because it's

3:26

will explode is a story. Over the

3:28

last week uses and the Snp since

3:30

to Twenty Twenty one Holyrood elections had

3:33

been in a power sharing agreement with

3:35

the Scottish Greens to the Scottish Green

3:37

Colitis had ministerial jobs in the government.

3:40

that wasn't agreement brokered by Nicholas Dutch

3:42

and when study from whence the agreement.

3:44

Stayed in place that had been lots

3:46

of tension sort of bubbling under the

3:48

surface. we talked to that about them

3:50

on the form of the shows we

3:52

did last week but then pretty suddenly

3:54

middle of last week use of schools

3:56

journalists to Buerhaus and he says is

3:59

this a residence. Says the

4:01

he is unilaterally pulling the

4:03

plug. On. The Snp

4:05

Greendale. Come. On the some internal

4:07

pressure from within the party to do that, there

4:09

had been a feeling that as a result of

4:12

the Scottish government. Withdrawing.

4:14

From or diluting it's climate targets that the greens

4:16

at some point we're going to pull out anyway.

4:18

I was talking to a Scottish government minister this

4:20

morning to said look they were going to do

4:22

this is was uses trying to get out ahead

4:24

of it's but in doing it so brutally. It's.

4:27

Clear that uses had calculated heat source

4:29

that despite that fact, he could still

4:31

rely on the Greens votes in Holyrood

4:34

in the parliament to keep him and

4:36

his government in office. Was a fatal

4:38

miscalculation because they made clear over the

4:40

weekend that they weren't going to do

4:43

so. They pull the plug. He's got.

4:45

Yeah. I mean Law. Sweetly retelling he's

4:47

about the systems phase the men in

4:49

Gray Kilt says, come to advice in

4:52

that this will be the best course

4:54

of action. And I was speaking to

4:56

one kiss and p voice this morning

4:58

who told me that they understood that

5:00

that would have been a no confidence

5:02

vote in Patrick Harvie, the green lead

5:05

at that was that and sex and

5:07

that the Hamza Yusuf would essentially that

5:09

to whip his. M. S P's

5:11

to vote in favor of keeping Harveys

5:13

and that would have created even more

5:15

divisions and say with sense Lee Holmes

5:17

went. On as as as the front foot

5:20

and got. Rid of them On I said

5:22

very. Bruce Lee sorry but was.

5:24

This a fuck up and they said

5:26

yes. It's a perfect example of all

5:29

the problems The execution is so hop

5:31

hazard politics, terrible, Only a handful

5:33

of people knew what was going happen.

5:35

It was very secretive. it was a

5:37

big cat handed he was badly advise

5:39

on. I said these not assess play

5:42

with explicitly and they said that's the

5:44

problem. No one in Butte House plays

5:46

chess. A Muslim isn't metaphorically Weldon sort

5:48

of sitting round of an afternoon's but

5:50

you can see in this very genuine.

5:52

And very likable man as as.

5:54

The first leader who was really sort

5:57

of welling up as he had to

5:59

make that emotional. Speech that actually?

6:01

yeah, we. it's quite noises when

6:03

somebody who's not. Very good at politics.

6:05

Alternate would be was at a few of those

6:07

reasons as well I suppose, but I say isn't.

6:09

That what I guess I mean is

6:12

particularly when you will work in a

6:14

Pr system, you cannot piss off people

6:16

that you might need. You have to

6:19

be particularly good. At policies rule,

6:21

politics, Pr meaning that you will

6:23

more likely end up without. An

6:25

overall majority and the up with some is

6:27

it looks like coalescence. If you're obsessing, you

6:29

could have some partners the whole time or

6:31

telling people that you will. Government doesn't really

6:34

need them and you're already on a bit

6:36

of a sticky wicket. I think this is

6:38

Sidley pegged for most of the regular, right?

6:40

Yes, you have to be able to work

6:42

with your colleagues in a system that a

6:44

man's a lot more collaboration. And famously he

6:46

told us Reagan who was standing against him

6:48

for the leadership of the Nicholas, says it's

6:50

that the party will be better off without

6:52

her He could He said get on fine

6:54

without us As it turned out as Reagan

6:56

at one point looks like the. Linchpin,

6:58

the potential kingmaker, With

7:01

her vote I think when

7:03

you're dealing with a parliamentary

7:05

system which demands. Cooperation between the

7:07

parties. You probably do have to be

7:10

a bit more bogan about the whole

7:12

thing, either. Play people with a bit

7:14

more now than clearly I'm that was

7:17

able. To do is yell I think there's

7:19

a less I mean obviously he came across

7:21

well in the speech was legal emotions about

7:23

his family but I mean as another reading

7:25

which I think we'll do the rounds which

7:27

was to say that the ways acts in

7:29

last week's been deeply Hebrew stick and as

7:31

use use the technology I'm I mean it's

7:33

not exactly like play against the Grandmaster right

7:35

to realize if you're relying on a certain

7:37

group of people's votes in your parliament's to

7:39

keep you in office deeply pissing them off,

7:41

humiliating them. Humiliating. The basically

7:43

as he did basically yields the potential

7:45

for them to humiliate you. Yeah, and

7:47

that really isn't I mean that's not

7:49

a complicated things he did say the

7:51

study phrase. To know he said what was it of a

7:53

formal. Arrangement, but I hope it will tear on

7:55

informally. That's a bit like in a divorce

7:57

your husband sakes, but obviously you know. Will

8:00

still hang out the whole. Time What we know we

8:02

were. Yeah, I mean even the politics of

8:04

a last week seemed crazy and we we

8:06

consider this basically even as a piece of

8:08

messaging to the Scottish electorate use of was

8:10

saying look is absolutely vital that this agreement

8:12

comes to an end because in different ways

8:15

it's destabilizing things is on sending us. But

8:17

by the way it's been brilliant and it's

8:19

achieved a law. Oh and also by the

8:21

way these people were taking our I'm looking

8:23

forward to working with them yeah very very

8:25

closely in the coming weeks and months. And

8:27

he just as a bit of politics as

8:29

a bit of communication. It seemed all over

8:32

the place. It was all over here. He can't. Point

8:34

I think to some successes in

8:36

that short time he managed the

8:38

Nhs. Strikes me as he didn't

8:40

have the strikes that we've seen

8:42

this side of the border. I

8:44

would argue probably because of his

8:46

own personal physician he had relatives

8:48

in Gaza that he managed to.

8:51

Probably be more attuned to wear. His

8:53

policy maybe to West Scotland was on.

8:55

The dollars or issue than certainly in

8:57

a labour has been able to do

8:59

here. But I think one of the

9:01

bigger questions for this is. Label.

9:04

We're in a very good position.

9:06

With. A worldly Smp. They

9:08

to point to all the financial.

9:11

Questions surrounding. Nicholas thirds and

9:13

and her husband. They could point to whether Hamza

9:15

Yusuf really have the support of his own policy.

9:17

Was he a puff? It was. he's in as

9:20

one person put it to me this morning. Was

9:22

he the David Moyes that came After all it

9:24

said this and I love the site. the you

9:26

will know understand the analogy it his majesty noises

9:28

in other. That on the snow? Know that.

9:30

I guess the point is now

9:32

is the Snp get their act

9:35

together is they have. Another

9:37

liza or an interim leader who is

9:39

a steadying fools who takes them away

9:42

from that calles. Doesn't.

9:44

Make things a lot harder. For. Labour mean

9:46

in a way you don't. Interrupt your

9:49

your. Enemy: While they're making a mistake, homes

9:51

on the Us and p with were making sort

9:53

of fabulous mistake for labour, I think whatever comes

9:55

next might make things a lot harder. Will

9:57

maybe. But I mean I suppose there is one. We

10:00

already had kissed armor. Talking about

10:02

it this morning, I despair. Situation:

10:04

Scotland is absolute chaos Now from

10:06

the Scottish Parliament. from the person

10:09

that you see you go sale,

10:11

send the Scottish parliament, sell stuff,

10:13

Chaos in the Westminster Parliament and

10:15

the Scottish people being fundamentally let

10:17

found one in seven or on

10:19

waiting lists as a cost of

10:22

living crisis and all we're simply

10:24

can offer is chaos and will

10:26

turn the page or miss. Now

10:28

we need that General election. A

10:30

fresh start. It is a line

10:32

which Labor have used magnificently well

10:34

and very sexy play against the

10:37

Conservative party in Westminster which is

10:39

the same as Chaos and now

10:41

increasingly the Snp in Holyrood. Appear

10:43

to exhibit many of the same

10:45

structural sentinel same tensions, but similar

10:48

parallel tensions internally, which makes it

10:50

harder for them to govern and

10:52

they will now be on their

10:54

third first minister. You have this

10:56

parliament's but also I mean even

10:58

this process has been deeply destabilizing

11:00

for the Snp itself and the

11:02

prospect for example it was floated

11:05

briefly incomes Raising of having to

11:07

work with you've already mentioned her

11:09

ass, Reagan's she Was, you say

11:11

And Smp leadership can send us.

11:13

Quite eccentric figure, she went to

11:15

join Alec Salmons Alba Party salmon

11:17

deeply reviled by a good contingent

11:19

of the Snp. Think back to

11:21

of those sort of into nissan

11:23

wars between I examined and Nicholas

11:25

Sturgeon a few years ago cause

11:27

he was their leader. He led

11:29

them into the yes campaign for

11:31

the referendum independence referendum back and

11:33

Twenty Fourteen. but obviously he left

11:35

the party very difficult circumstances for

11:37

two reasons. First of all, he

11:39

was involved in a criminal trial

11:41

where he was accused of attempted.

11:43

Rape and sexual assaults He was found

11:46

not guilty on twelve charges A not

11:48

proven The Scottish Verdict Specific Top discusses

11:50

verdict not proven on one of sexual

11:53

assault with intent to write it obviously

11:55

with very very difficult an awkward for

11:57

the Snp leadership at that time and

12:00

it divided this and be and indeed

12:02

in some ways at least some of

12:04

the fault lines that are playing out

12:07

now. To some extent is over able.

12:09

to some extent go back to that war.

12:11

That division between the two of them sturgeon

12:13

some. Well, I guess he'd say that the

12:15

other the policy is a direct result. To

12:17

do you know that division? That's Alex Salmond.

12:19

Thanks. I'll do my own way. You didn't

12:21

push for independence quickly enough, and he didn't

12:23

support me. And he's essentially

12:25

cells as the independent swig of

12:28

the Scottish Nationalists post. The Atlanta

12:30

some extent one of the themes that

12:32

with playing out here and again you

12:34

don't over gets you must as Yes

12:36

and P remain dominant on the Yes

12:38

side or independent side. But you all

12:40

seem to some extent the Yes or

12:42

pro independence forces fracture and fragmented little

12:44

bit. The Snp used to basically be

12:46

able to speak up for it universally.

12:48

There was no other significant party in

12:50

favor of independence. Beef had the greens

12:53

grow, got alber as well. And the

12:55

Cs and people back the independent. Cited

12:57

some extent find itself in Westminster

12:59

election with one of the problems

13:01

that. The. Uni this auto with had

13:03

which is they were split in different directions

13:05

whereas the yes side and been side coalesced

13:08

around one grouping others to some extent only

13:10

to some extent. To

13:18

have a senior Smp minister and they were

13:21

saying looks the assumption was completely false. Assumption

13:23

from I'm That Was the Greens would abstain

13:25

if there was a motion of no confidence

13:27

or the other scenarios would have continued with

13:30

a narrative of a failing First Minister. With

13:32

this choice, he felt he was in control.

13:34

That feeling lasted for less than twelve hours,

13:36

but imagine how many of us felt having

13:39

to listen to Alex Salmond over the last

13:41

few days. Bragging. Boasting

13:43

looking like he's in control of us.

13:45

that itself has been a deeply destabilizing

13:47

mom for the Snp. So whoever is

13:49

coming in now, having to patch up

13:51

all of those internal sensors? Auspicious. The

13:54

things we're talking about last week's the

13:56

fact that more more for the Snp

13:58

you have just seen this. you. The

14:00

used to be kind of like a like

14:02

a block. the nominate kind of block ahead.

14:04

Human, you have increasingly just seen that left

14:07

wing image. that right wing emerge and know

14:09

cigarette. especially since the end of Sturgeon Who

14:11

can unite them. Together. So

14:13

yes, as a lot of talk about, John Swinney

14:15

used to be the leader of the Snp, used

14:18

to be Nicola Sturgeon the deputy First Minister of

14:20

Finance Minister and so when outlive he wants to

14:22

do the job. but he will only in any

14:24

case be a stopgap, maybe for a year or

14:27

two, maybe less. And so then there was decision

14:29

for the Snp about what direction they go in

14:31

and almost feels whatever direction I and they're going

14:33

to be. O S United Alaska ceases to they

14:36

have been in the past. Cr me de

14:38

evolution is very young and. Scotland to analogy

14:40

the next week and exactly. It's coming

14:42

up to twenty five years and they have

14:44

never the full face this scenario with of

14:46

those no confidence in both the government and

14:49

the lead at mean that never had a

14:51

vote of no confidence in the leader on

14:53

I guess I'm the is of has. Now

14:55

so put the vote no confidence

14:57

in him to one side. But

15:00

curiously. They could still have a vote

15:02

of no confidence in the government to

15:04

mean you know, legitimately, they could actually

15:06

still go ahead with that if they

15:08

don't find the right person. To take

15:10

over because when they all replacing

15:12

the first Minister, I think I'm

15:14

right in saying it is not

15:16

just a vote for the Snp

15:18

or even in a form a

15:20

coalition partners. it's the all the

15:22

emus peace in the Scottish Parliament.

15:24

And so actually there are very

15:27

few people to your poor Lewis

15:29

who fit the bill. Now Swinney

15:31

is the former deputy first minister.

15:33

He was Nicola Sturgeon the deputy.

15:35

He's in a in his sixties

15:37

has been out of politics. Frontline

15:39

politics for a while. Now I mean, does

15:41

he want to come in with his wife?

15:43

i think a subsequent city. That is why policy

15:45

and bat rice in the frame right at this

15:47

most difficult time? Is there enough in it for

15:50

him to actually stay more than a few months

15:52

to nut job on them? Where are you

15:54

know? the person who. Just lost out

15:56

to Scotland. Person said seventies

15:59

up with. For now, Kate

16:01

forbes his own a completely different wing.

16:03

As you say, it's Missouri's the Stairs

16:05

on Alaska. Seize on the right. We

16:08

know that she has misgivings about gay

16:10

marriage. We know that she feels very

16:12

strongly about the gender self id laws

16:14

that the Snp was trying to bring

16:17

in under Nicola Sturgeon. Is there are

16:19

enough people. In. The Us Mp

16:21

who decides that I see her direct

16:23

sun is the right one. Then they

16:25

may choose her as the next leader

16:27

which would take them. I

16:29

wonder in some ways in a close

16:32

the policy positions to where labour will

16:34

be. Well, I think again, that

16:36

speaks of essentially stabilization right? Because he

16:38

says a contested leadership election, this has

16:40

to go to the Snp members. that's

16:42

going to take some time unless they coalesce

16:44

around for more moderate. Swinney or someone

16:46

else was to say exactly what the Mechanics

16:49

Office now use of has resigned. The

16:51

Scottish Parliament has twenty eight days to find

16:53

a new First Minister who commands a

16:55

majority. Is Msps in those twenty eight

16:57

days sale? To do so, there will be

16:59

a Scottish General Election soup of his

17:01

to to fool that we might be staring

17:04

down the barrel. Filled unlikely because yes and

17:06

piece that what's useful than overall majority they should be

17:08

able to. I suspect that best play will be to

17:10

appeal to the Greens to say okay you've got rid

17:12

of use a few because we that doesn't feel pride

17:15

would actually work with anyone. Other than that, yeah Hamza

17:17

eat It was okay with the like that wouldn't work

17:19

with us so it was personal for them. So that

17:21

is like the i think there won't be another election

17:23

with a fight with even on the cause none would

17:26

have been thinking. if you will feel guilty about the

17:28

rug like the eggs, others or the entire Lex the

17:30

Us election maybe we're having a Holyrood election. To you

17:32

though it is, let's have a listen to John. Swinney

17:35

his been almost exactly those

17:37

questions about any seats are

17:39

all this morning of different

17:42

Very careful consideration. Soon standing

17:44

to the University on steam

17:46

support overwhelmed one. Request

17:49

of the meat of me to do

17:51

that. it's over many many mrs. so

17:53

many colds are toast pasta sauce on

17:55

giving not mission Viviane distances of he

17:58

says and as like they'll have. The

18:00

about Movies that says dame of.

18:03

I'm good to give it to say that

18:05

a socket. Lots of things to think about

18:07

to end this a the whole question of

18:09

my my family. I now have to make

18:11

sure that I do like food for my

18:13

family, the precious to me and I'll have

18:15

to the right thing by my coffee and

18:17

by my conscience. Oh this looks to be

18:19

sort of ice and our ship over back

18:21

to civilization and. Or.

18:24

Junius now is a woman who

18:26

knows the Snp inside out. It's

18:28

people, It's architecture. And probably.

18:30

Where things have gone wrong. She was

18:33

the Chief of staff to Nicola Sturgeon

18:35

her former adviser and it's lives Lloyd

18:37

Unless we surprised by how quickly things

18:40

have just unravel pharmacies us and want

18:42

the last five days I think you

18:44

know I think Mrs personally quite deeply

18:47

a sad moment from these if he

18:49

was so proud to be said must

18:51

have a president says Scott season says

18:53

minister and that shouldn't go Marks Today

18:56

that I think. From the moment

18:58

he got rid of the Greens last week,

19:00

in the manner in which he got the

19:03

Greens our government last week, it was evident

19:05

that this was likely to be where he

19:07

would end up. Scottish politics is.

19:10

Partly a game a month and you have

19:12

to be able to make a majority. I

19:14

mean it was inevitable that it wasn't evident

19:16

to him clearly wasn't evident Twenty one around

19:18

to move the advice and was it was

19:20

a very badly advised or did he just

19:22

as he just too naive to be a

19:24

policy said. I think it was it

19:26

mean it was a serious miscalculation and he took the wraps

19:28

it up to say you know he took it on himself

19:30

said it was his decision. I

19:33

still can't understand why that decision was made

19:35

and not like ever, people around him know

19:37

the greetings You've worked with Green for a

19:39

long time. Have. Always known that

19:41

the Greens would vote against as in a

19:43

vote of no confidence they've They've done that

19:46

before. This wouldn't be the first time. So

19:48

why that decision was enacted in the way

19:50

it was is still of as a mystery.

19:52

That decision your i am you described it as

19:54

make or break last week is crazy broken

19:56

him very quickly splitting the truth that he had

19:59

a very very. Ago inheritance which.

20:02

A. Woman you up for was First Minister

20:04

Nicola Sturgeon is primarily responsible for me

20:06

if we think about the policies, users,

20:08

records in difficulty, gender self id, the

20:10

climate change targets which were partly responsible

20:12

for the acrimony between the Greens and

20:14

and the Smp. Of course there is

20:16

the finance scandals that is ongoing, and

20:18

of course more generally the fact that

20:20

Nicola Sturgeon, for all her gifts and

20:22

prowess, was unable to actually achieve independence,

20:24

which is partly at the root of

20:26

so much frustration within the party. You

20:28

know, I'm not gonna. Pretend it had an

20:30

easy yeah you know and not all of

20:33

the difficulties faced as and it's his mates

20:35

and you know we don't have very difficult

20:37

paste I gave his family member stuck in.that's

20:39

there have been challenges on the policy front

20:42

but it has been up to him and

20:44

this government rather than the previous government how

20:46

they dealt with those policy talented. The did

20:48

get rid of a number of policies and

20:50

I think they were right to do. Of

20:53

times have changed from when Nicola Sturgeon with

20:55

leading the Scottish government's others. they conti perhaps

20:57

a little bit too much but you haven't.

20:59

Had speech today his support for minorities I think

21:02

some of what he was standing by him what

21:04

he has been criticized for for example around him

21:06

from and he said the hate crime max or

21:08

around gender issue. Comes. From his

21:10

personal understanding of what it's like to be a

21:12

minority. In this country, and so

21:15

he perhaps wasn't willing to dump and policies

21:17

in a way that some people in the

21:19

parties would have wanted him. To. The

21:21

maybe this the the truth is is

21:23

the both he and you and Nicola

21:25

Sturgeon frankly overestimated the extent to which

21:27

Scottish public willing to go along with

21:30

these changes You overestimate is the idea

21:32

that the Scottish public world more liberal

21:34

about my disease issues than Pops in

21:36

the rest of the Uk and it's

21:38

proven not to be the case. And

21:41

to some extent that's proven not only

21:43

studies on doing but use us as

21:45

well. I. Don't think sent me on My

21:47

part of never approached this as a

21:49

thinking that a scotch public less more

21:51

liberal. It's about having the Palace. do

21:53

you do something about at when you

21:55

had fun rebel groups who were saying

21:57

they needed change? you know you have

22:00

that choice you trying up in for

22:02

everyone I think rather than overestimating support

22:04

I think we underestimated the power of

22:06

the opposition to those issues and how

22:08

toxic they would become. I think if

22:10

he looked back to when something like

22:12

gender recognition was initially promised. You.

22:14

Had Nicholas stage and receive setting Kuznetsov dallas

22:16

as he does in the Scottish Parliament, all

22:18

making the same pledged back in tiny sixteen.

22:21

A. Lot of water went under the bridge,

22:23

the pandemic, the Kennedy change in attitude,

22:25

people's increasing focus on you know day

22:28

to day issues like the cost of

22:30

living, crisis and politics moved on and

22:32

I think were. So.

22:34

What has been a problem is he likes

22:36

of the Snp isn't not updating, it's policies

22:38

are politics. moved on. He.

22:40

Ever wonder whether. The. Decision

22:43

has to take more responsibility for this

22:45

because in I've been talking to sort

22:47

of kiss Mp voices this morning his

22:49

say it it out she goes back

22:51

to her leadership. You know she might

22:53

be a brilliant. Orissa on a

22:55

brilliant politician. And actually a very

22:57

good says minister. Whoa. She was in

23:00

charge, but she didn't look after the

23:02

Snp as an organization. she had no

23:04

real interest in investing fuck into the

23:06

policy in a proper vetting system in

23:08

the code of conduct. People who been

23:10

there for twenty five years gave themselves

23:12

pay rises, no effort put into new

23:14

membership. it is it. Kind of like.

23:17

Just. Been there too long, accepted the status

23:19

quotes who don't and didn't regenerate and that's

23:22

why you ended up with the sort of

23:24

you know Alex Ferguson to David Moyes Scenario

23:26

is the was an attempt to regenerate to

23:28

bring new life into the party and there's

23:30

a lot name's been talked about say meal

23:33

Gray my I'm a Collins any go with

23:35

who were brought in and keep Forbes and

23:37

Humvees as it were brought in the Nicholas

23:39

Cage and because she thought potential in them

23:41

to lead the party and feature it looks

23:44

like those activities have come to any sudden.

23:46

it looks like they are. Not ready and

23:48

over the last year haven't managed to do the

23:50

pivot. say it needed a hot celts too much

23:52

loyalty to what went before them. You know you

23:55

have to be that cutthroat in this. and maybe

23:57

they went cutthroat enough, but there is it. A.

23:59

Child ensure the Snp now people can look

24:01

back at his to blame them both. But

24:03

and the issue they need to focus on

24:05

now it's who leads legs and how they

24:07

get himself sources for Westminster elections that could

24:10

come any. Don't. Want you think should happen

24:12

next. Place. Where do you think the

24:14

policy forgot? I think it. Needs. To stabilize more

24:16

than anything initially you know I I would

24:18

expect is that there will be conversations taken

24:20

place between. you know, John Swinney, his commitment

24:22

or La Presse. It's a stand and to

24:24

be a soda. Unity Concepts Though he may

24:26

not want to, he may think he's done

24:28

his times and keep fault. he. Would you

24:30

know if she didn't stand? Undoubtedly when a

24:32

leadership election because she now has a bit

24:34

of an i told you so factor after

24:37

the last leadership election? Could you? as it

24:39

were to different people? I mean could you

24:41

end up with the leader of the Snp

24:43

and Us as minister? That was not the.

24:45

Same. Person. Under. The rules Emily

24:47

know as long as deleted. The Snp is

24:49

a member of the Hollywood Groups is a

24:51

Things Msp. They have to be nominated by

24:54

the Snp to be says minister. Okay, so

24:56

that would take me on. So technically Stephen

24:58

Flynn could be the Snp leader and John

25:01

Swinney could. Let's say, be. An interim.

25:03

First. Minister that that is. Possible.

25:06

That is technically possible. the highly unlikely I

25:08

mean it hasn't happened last the I think

25:10

he has been and government have to on

25:12

the Alex Salmond did lead from Westminster with

25:14

necklace eight and a set. Busy but possibly

25:17

than opposition that are difficult I think to

25:19

have someone as first Minister who is setting

25:21

the policy it's and on all devolved issues

25:23

you isn't actually the leader of the party.

25:25

I think that would fall apart pretty quickly,

25:28

all colleague Andrew most rising the times that.

25:30

He. Felt the had been at times and he writes

25:33

his a. A. Very prose

25:35

evolution school certainly. That

25:37

he felt at times the Snp

25:39

had has an arrogance to it

25:41

which was about assuming that Scotland

25:44

and Scottish people were very different.

25:46

What was happening south the border

25:48

so skewed as south of the

25:50

border you couldn't get away with

25:52

ambitious targets on climate change, but

25:54

in Scotland's you could only do

25:57

think there was a sense of

25:59

how. I don't know that

26:01

that he sort of acts. it all

26:03

doesn't acted like Scotland was already independent

26:05

in a way. Isn't. That wasn't

26:07

so effects of i'm gonna pick up a

26:09

time I target but then come back to

26:12

the rest. Is that that overly ambitious climate

26:14

target? That's that's me that was actually introduced

26:16

by the Labour party. It was set in

26:18

minority government and it would put forward by

26:20

Labour, not the Snp on that. Kind of

26:22

was there a sense as I do know

26:24

exceptionalism. It's not one. I mean I'm English

26:26

is not one I've ever sell. It's not

26:28

one I've ever saw of perpetuate As and

26:30

governance. But I think you know the Snp.

26:32

Particularly. Stage and doesn't against breaks. The

26:35

Tories thought was the backdrop and. So

26:37

you didn't have to be thinking you

26:39

are special or different to be doing

26:41

something different. The political, their actions, Of

26:43

the Tea Party for diametrically opposed to finally

26:45

live how dangerous a moment you think this

26:48

is the Snp. They've been on the up

26:50

hegemonic dominant for so long. Last

26:52

couple of years by seasons Doses was motion.

26:54

To. A greater or lesser extent fallen apart.

26:56

How dangerous is is it is a pivotal

26:58

moments of party. That's. Why I think

27:01

it needs to take it: Stability, breed

27:03

more turmoil. Will. Not help.

27:05

In. The next Westminster election Mortimer will not

27:08

help get them to twenty Twenty Six People

27:10

Want to just see them. Dolphin. They want

27:12

to see a party actually govern for public

27:14

services, not fight with itself. Not bet that's

27:16

not brief the newspapers about each other. There.

27:20

Will be a decline in support in the

27:22

Westminster. Like some when Labour look like they're

27:24

gonna win at Westminster, some voters will always

27:26

go that the challenge to the Snp as

27:28

to make said that that's at a temporary

27:30

mates and not Eminem What really gets to

27:32

the theater. Thank you Sailors Loneliest Video Further.

27:34

North. right? Well in among

27:36

we will be talking to someone whose

27:39

name is being floated as a potential

27:41

Smp Leaders know love and certainly in

27:43

the future that whispers leader seamlessly there

27:45

with this. Is

27:55

the news agency. Well,

28:00

a lot of eyes right now

28:02

around the man who is city

28:04

and our studio here. Stephen Fled,

28:06

the leader of the Snp at

28:08

Westminster is giving his first interview

28:10

since that resignation announcement came this

28:12

morning to Us Festival. He must

28:14

have expected this. but when did

28:16

you first know the homes of

28:18

this concept and I was becoming

28:20

a pot and. Ever Cracow

28:22

once we obviously seen the verse

28:24

them optional reaction from the dreams

28:26

and then of course the demands

28:29

from the the above poverty which

28:31

department was never going to be

28:33

it's mission to accept and when

28:35

old perfect start novel home. I

28:37

guess it becomes inevitable that the

28:39

consequence was going to be the

28:41

the Hamza move on. From the

28:43

whole the the he was holding

28:45

hands on a personal level. I'm

28:47

quite upset by that. I think

28:49

I'm says held says heads really

28:51

high thrive. As entire time in the

28:53

mood for ministerial office is acted with

28:56

intensity with compassion and despite the enormous

28:58

challenges that he and his family have

29:00

faced and listen to to Gaza is

29:02

never shied away from from his responsibilities

29:05

to do the scotch people on some

29:07

just terrible stories and of the kiss

29:09

me up for says Stephen. Lynch you

29:11

wanna says who went to him last

29:14

Wednesday and advised him that he would

29:16

have to break with the greens which

29:18

is what he did on Thursday morning

29:20

when you in the inner circle that

29:22

told him that was his best. Route

29:24

Zoo I've I've seen this positive

29:26

by very many people, people who

29:28

perhaps ass over states my you

29:30

and Flint's and perhaps overestimated own

29:32

political abilities which the reality is

29:34

the mean The First Minister Scotland's

29:36

become a very regular basis for

29:38

us to the ongoing violence and

29:40

others. Quite clear that things in

29:42

my view and it's changes with

29:44

the last October times islands as

29:46

part of I was quite keen

29:48

to see the relationship with says

29:51

the green party come to conclusions

29:53

of I. Had influence that would have happened

29:55

was and we let him Long as you

29:57

know it's I met on Wednesday. Wednesday.

29:59

Wants. Mmm. I was often had

30:02

a better disgusted. The complete I

30:04

mean, of course we discussed the

30:06

Buerhaus agreements opposing the and cons

30:09

and you know that discussion was

30:11

that discussion, but no decisions are

30:13

taken and certainly not the was

30:15

pushed to do anything an artist

30:18

and it's massively disrespectful to. The.

30:20

Hamza as first minister himself, the notion that

30:22

someone else could go into his house and

30:25

tell him what to do. If it is

30:27

you advise him did you advisory the he

30:29

should pull the plug on said In terms

30:31

of the the Green agreement. I'm really pleased

30:34

that were no longer and coalition with a

30:36

Green probably. I think it's done the the

30:38

party or a great deal of damage. I

30:40

think that the the public perception of it

30:43

hasn't been the right ones. I think that

30:45

has. Led to us focusing on

30:47

issues which aren't in the same head

30:49

spaces where the public are back home

30:51

and the offices see the results are

30:53

in the polls. Some are going to

30:55

shy away from the fact. I'm pleased

30:57

to this agreement as concluded because I

30:59

lose the party and more importantly the

31:01

government's get lots of Aziz of the

31:03

I thought it would have let. You

31:05

in a place where he was saying you go to

31:07

pull the plug on this and he did that Somebody

31:10

must tunnel. I know none of us are hadn't.

31:12

Seats are the first minister you have to the

31:14

plug on this we we just discussed the pros

31:16

and cons and certainly from microsoft was a clumsy

31:18

might have to resign five days I never did

31:20

not mean I did anyone see that one deposing

31:22

the gone to parliament they have a second and

31:24

all the rest of us that from my perspective

31:26

them because I I think it's a good said

31:29

that when the one hand coalition with the drinks

31:31

and and I was a collage been to the

31:33

closest to deceive last first minister for the response

31:35

the responses something which so I don't know the

31:37

manner in which I was done I wasn't there

31:39

and I wasn't privy. To ever plan was

31:41

to in place that's not something I was

31:43

swimming or we set them on Thursday morning.

31:46

Do however have discussion when and the whole

31:48

plan and the on up to that an

31:50

old estimates of innocent a little Constance I

31:52

was the on when six. I was only

31:54

there because the Prime minister went over to

31:57

the Germany. This wasn't something which of course

31:59

was preplanned in my mind and I'm the

32:01

no illusion that by how to build on

32:03

Wednesday this with of of all happens anyway.

32:06

as I said earlier as people massively overstay

32:08

my influence to try and push themselves I

32:10

I would suggest and and the public's eyes

32:12

and to the reality is written something which

32:14

will please the public which is to ensure

32:17

that the Scottish government is focused on public

32:19

priorities which is the economy. The Nhs jobs

32:21

only say it is a price worth paying.

32:23

So the Snp as a whole nom. I'm

32:25

very sorry that the way it's often because

32:28

I'm that doesn't service he's done the. Right

32:30

thing I unfortunately through night thing

32:32

as the lead to a reaction

32:34

which he himself disaster minister he

32:36

didn't expect ons of course has

32:38

left us with are always of

32:40

still are even be candidates Holy

32:42

shit album the candidates leader for

32:44

them. In. Any form. Guarantees.

32:48

Gun. Who. Would you be

32:50

supporting? Would you be supporting John Swinney? There

32:52

is a there's a suggestion that he could

32:55

be calculators. That's something you would welcome. So

32:57

these are so deeply series time sad a

32:59

series times for the public to are struggling

33:01

with a the consequences of their customers Increases

33:04

are looking for hope and for aspiration to

33:06

the future. From the the government's I think

33:08

there's only one person to the experience to

33:10

do that job. I think there's only one

33:13

person who can unite the party a thing

33:15

As only one person, he can unite the

33:17

com A and have thought that vision. That

33:20

you can then go on and deliver on.

33:22

I would like to think that person would

33:24

be John Swinney. I would certainly encourage him

33:26

to stance. I hope the he's in a

33:28

position to put himself forward and I would

33:30

certainly holds her colleagues and members would be

33:32

able to back. Maybe that would you like

33:34

to see him be elitist? Take you into

33:37

the next General election in Westminster, but also

33:39

to the Twenty Twenty Six Holyrood elections or

33:41

just show. To summarize what the No. No.

33:43

I firmly believe that than the next leader

33:45

with party town and just an interim position

33:47

has to be someone who. Is

33:49

willing to take us as you since the

33:52

general election, but subs just as importantly into

33:54

the Scottish Parliament elections so they can present

33:56

a vision for what the Snp can do

33:58

for Scotland and I. Compelling when

34:00

John has experience when second to

34:02

none of those he was of

34:05

course in Georgia Scotland's call me

34:07

for a very long time has

34:09

all the right connections and relationships

34:11

with the the people in marketing.

34:13

Three economic ghosts and Scotland's has

34:15

experience across all of portfolio areas

34:17

or of government is unmatched. He

34:20

commands a huge amount of respect

34:22

and of me remember minority government

34:24

is John Swinney has experience of

34:26

during the and in order to

34:28

make minority government successful. You

34:30

need someone who can bring everyone together

34:32

aspects of their political views and he

34:35

to do that. Even Sonos time. that

34:37

would be a message to keep folks

34:39

is probably thinking or maybe consider the

34:41

moment. Hang on a second. I just

34:44

lost our last time terms. He says

34:46

why shouldn't she put her son the

34:48

right? thrive cause. Huge amount of respect

34:51

for Key. I think she's phenomena, was

34:53

talented and lose. It's always. Proceeds are

34:55

no no no such a success snot

34:57

and and system has an incredibly bright.

35:00

Future But you know one of the reasons

35:02

I'm not to myself forward as because I'm

35:04

sorry five years old and I've got a

35:06

lot of exploring still to games on not

35:08

just as soon or in Hollywood right now

35:10

just and still does as genuinely because of

35:12

and politicians don't see this and off we

35:14

all lots like we can do everything now

35:17

I don't believe that and even if I

35:19

wasn't hundred I don't believe on the on

35:21

the best person to take the party forward.

35:23

Said to have not passed, no experience and

35:25

and the skill set which I think is

35:27

required to deal with minority government John does

35:29

have. Thoughts: and I've it's all Episodes

35:32

Key is that a nonsmoker, what

35:34

John can achieve wouldn't much. on

35:36

Sunday the.com is illness like if

35:38

you're saying. the party saying we

35:40

tried that we tried the new

35:42

generations, the freshener, the person he's

35:44

had so seen as com author

35:46

nicholas surgeon and it didn't work.

35:48

So now we come back to

35:50

something time tested because we're bit

35:52

worried. Evidences Sentencing Box of Fox's

35:54

that John Swinney is a serious

35:56

man for serious times and I

35:58

think so as. Up. As if he says. My

36:01

hope he doesn't have Muslim. I mean when

36:03

a mother is fucking very seriously by his

36:05

family's white guilt mint. a huge fan of

36:07

him going around and says hopefully as for

36:10

quick myself as one of his likeness can

36:12

can can censor both see the series man

36:14

facilities tend to the public expect the government's

36:16

had to act in a series fashions and

36:19

he's he's an individual can do that and

36:21

it on me I think says opposition parties

36:23

and holy rates would be very worried about

36:25

some them with his particular abilities teaching on

36:28

the wrong because he will be. Able. To

36:30

show a level of leadership which is

36:32

unmatched in Hollywood? How much of. Jesus

36:35

demise was in his control in a

36:37

sense. How much of it you think

36:39

is about the hand was dealt by

36:41

Nicholas Duchess. treatises, Am.

36:45

I. The services. One the reasons

36:47

I feel really sorry about all

36:49

of us because Holmes's had to

36:51

deal with a whole little rascals

36:54

a shoes which have not been

36:56

of his mentor for some relation

36:58

to the park able some relation

37:00

to the politics since also the

37:02

his own personal challenges with his

37:05

family of course been in Gaza

37:07

Islands, the Huntington Dell has been

37:09

incredibly hard of M T, he's

37:11

openly admit that himself on many

37:13

occasions and it's the manner. Of

37:15

the man to be able to respond

37:18

to that and still have the confidence

37:20

to to move forward and to move

37:22

on and I go back since was

37:24

at elements one very sorry that the

37:26

he's had some eastern. Zone Stephen sounds

37:28

current process. I mean the blood

37:31

Truth is that the Us and

37:33

he. Was getting itself really obsessed

37:35

and really tangled up in gender

37:37

id politics. It committed

37:39

to these. Low Carbon these

37:42

net zero challenges which were almost

37:44

impossible to be there to attain.

37:47

It. Acted a half the time

37:49

like. It.

37:51

Was an independent country. When it wasn't

37:54

it had a certain sort of level

37:56

of talking about the rest of the

37:58

Uk compared to Scotland. Hands of

38:00

us to take all that own and you're like, well

38:02

you know he had a tough hands you policy set

38:04

him up with our hands. So with in town

38:07

for that and I don't want to replay

38:09

arguments consists of spoke future know but. August

38:11

on those areas as you've packed their and

38:14

the Gr was of course insurance costs, parties

38:16

and holy month every single party a member

38:18

of of every single party holiday the Conservatives,

38:20

liberal a band comes on this empty void

38:22

and safe of that legislation. When it to

38:25

you still think it's the right one for

38:27

the a some people to be detailed answer

38:29

when it came to the the net zero

38:31

and stuff to the target which the same

38:34

place on on a saucepan basis and holiday

38:36

to smell of course you've got the responsibility

38:38

for delivery of up where my suspicion lies

38:40

and nuts is. The fact that you

38:42

know mid maybe be taken on too

38:44

much ownership of the ability to deliver

38:46

about that because ultimately your capital purchase

38:48

been cut by the Uk government how

38:51

you meant to invest in in the

38:53

weeds and that is necessary to to

38:55

treat the this environment to to deliver

38:57

on the targets for similarly many of

38:59

the the weasel of decarbonizing vs for

39:01

your home see a cause as ultimately

39:03

come to have to be something. What

39:05

happens when cause you kiss on his

39:07

policy as it's not as clear cops

39:09

is that there's obviously been the ongoing.

39:11

Scenario with regards to the police investigation

39:14

which is is Allison and during which

39:16

was no this is obviously talking about

39:18

and when. And. When Hamza

39:20

came on as leadoff to who can forget

39:23

the thoughts that is in this first few

39:25

weeks he wasn't able to say I was

39:27

stalled because of it's completely i was has

39:29

console right way I was has control What

39:32

we're saying was a concert assessing on the

39:34

day that the play tennis or it isn't

39:36

that justice Nothing I did actually well and

39:38

elephant in the rave say what's is a

39:40

very ten in the going on or off

39:43

still get flashbacks to a fan of the

39:45

think to the most Snp member spoke dulwich

39:47

and as it's not been the the smoothest

39:49

of of. Watters to swim through passing he's

39:51

done and she's given at the a pretty

39:54

good run and sideways ended the we have.

39:56

But the good thing as that you have

39:58

no qualms. It has almost. A clean

40:00

slate and front of them because the How

40:02

Jackson told Rt finance scandal store don't go

40:05

gone you haven't resolved the questions or agenda

40:07

self id him sick Liam resolve the questions

40:09

that fractures within your party sources and he

40:11

always had deputy have been he was literally

40:13

just said he was Nicholas's the sales guy

40:15

was of I was with similar listen to

40:17

the policy agenda the you gotten their low

40:19

but what is too far ahead of us

40:21

was because what's what's been done by Hamza

40:24

and is and has obviously to a sense

40:26

as such me some of a back and

40:28

minority government and that affords the Snp. The

40:30

opportunity to to refocus on we set on

40:33

its priorities and lose power is have to

40:35

be with the public's priorities offs and you

40:37

and I both know the assholes of leave

40:39

Us New air and this the stable that

40:41

be. What's good scones known see what was

40:43

your priorities Focuses: the Nhs is the economy's

40:45

jobs. As Costa lessons I suspect we the

40:48

assembly has going to pull reckless and will

40:50

without Chicago the story to tell. The some

40:52

of that stories been turned out by by

40:54

a loss of consensus and school no Health

40:56

and Scotland seat on the health services. There's

40:58

no one no as know. I was coughing

41:00

fit want to the health service and Scotland's best

41:02

performing and the Ios has not been a single

41:05

struggle. Sinaloa has not been a single strike and

41:07

scones and it's as in comparison to the the

41:09

rest of the Uk on na sense of more

41:11

than anywhere else in the Uk. swaths of the

41:13

two hundred story can only six cancer as age

41:15

as well as as is as good as it

41:17

should be Evil know of course it's not the

41:19

we don't have the financial leave us to invest

41:21

in the be that we want and we have

41:23

a yuki Conservative party which of course is extracting

41:25

money from public services in the Labour party which

41:28

wants to good or not simply anti Western himself.

41:30

Talks about family but I to transition if

41:32

we want to talk about education with the

41:34

as you insane sliding down the nexus and

41:36

ninety five percent of Scotland young people going

41:38

to positive destinations fellow at college, whether it's

41:41

know the shelves, hold on, whether they're always

41:43

on a slice of shit as he went,

41:45

whether that's university where of course no be

41:47

young people in Scotland situation season stark contrast

41:49

and we have some these I was. We

41:51

do have a good read, quickly changed with

41:54

extensive research is either about we could but

41:56

I've a season ending on survey least they'll

41:58

phase. Isn't it more that. Going from

42:00

i'm going on to Jobs College to the Front

42:02

doesn't really do have any regrets that would need

42:04

us good. Ninety five percent of had such a

42:06

success story, but more broadly politically she sings it,

42:08

You already have your colleagues over the next six

42:11

months of the general election completed the Tory party

42:13

the straight face and say look all that counts

42:15

down there. When. You consider the

42:17

chaos that has been other less

42:19

twelve to eighteen months in Hollywood

42:21

Soon Nobody in the Scottish National

42:23

Party. Has. Funded

42:27

by the police and lived in

42:29

Parliament, nobody in the Scottish National

42:31

Party has crashed to the economy.

42:33

Nobody in the Scottish National Party

42:35

has of course act in in

42:37

the stock as modeled overseas soon

42:40

as I haven't been chaotic since

42:42

he became a gonna be on

42:44

your third Fastest or see Paul

42:46

Him since he became since he

42:48

became Prime Minister Islands of course.

42:51

Of. Course the public in school and a wise

42:53

enough to new to the damage the Conservative party

42:55

of close to their allies. As. In

42:57

stark contrast to the polls have mentioned in

42:59

which the Snp that to to protect them

43:01

during the costs wasn't I suspect we want

43:03

to talk about it's and it's funny how

43:05

they're on a sour said you cannot force

43:07

upon Scotland and allowed on elected leader when

43:10

bombed. Essence of course became wealth and first

43:12

minister. Whatever the i'm one just a model

43:14

has been one succession that and will you

43:16

going to build your third so far yet

43:18

so far but commercial five you can be

43:20

on your third in what three is not

43:22

will be good Nicholas Hamza to someone he

43:24

and Will Will Weep on Wheels have gone

43:26

from moderate sort. Of on get into according

43:28

to although remorse but you're still young I'm pretty

43:30

sure status else I thought these are the me

43:33

that will grow up without and go look in

43:35

a you don't want to be in the position

43:37

for hims you. Emulating the Conservatives at

43:39

Westminster. and yet it's much harder

43:42

for you to differentiate. Yourself from

43:44

not look when you keep replacing leader of

43:46

to lead off to lead us. So as

43:48

I was enjoying a some partisan they are

43:50

the the Labour party and Wales their new

43:53

First minister is mired in scandals as well.

43:55

None of us wants be in this scenario

43:57

which is why it's I think it's incumbent

43:59

upon rolling corruption scandals. I think it's I

44:01

think it's incumbent upon all of us to

44:04

to reset and we focus on what is

44:06

the most important thing which is a public.

44:08

It's not us, it's not the first. Now

44:10

is is hop people see what what giansily

44:12

says no really think again mean of. Towns

44:16

with cargo I'm awful fair. I hope

44:18

John sway stance and muffled thirty can

44:20

be convinced to stand to think us

44:23

in the public's interest and that someone

44:25

would come becomes an Sos minister sameh.

44:27

Thanks for the party would be incredibly

44:29

good as well since the Independence movement

44:31

of it because have John's a buck,

44:34

an hour and a leadership role as

44:36

not my day we're and I knew

44:38

that when you stand for the next

44:40

Hollywood's Lexus whenever they come as enough.

44:43

Of genuinely. No idea I want

44:45

to I want to get reelected said said

44:47

to Westminster I think most Snp mps and

44:50

looks to to Holyrood than and look at

44:52

the same bullets awfulness is on. This is

44:54

an awful recall job to do them together

44:56

which is to syrup since gone to be

44:59

scones why since and London and will continue

45:01

to it's time to an option to need

45:03

time to have to do the best my

45:05

beliefs and but I use and politicians in

45:08

the said elder they they like to think

45:10

they can conquer the world There are no

45:12

those the limits of my. Own abilities

45:14

at the moment and and that that

45:16

includes and on info for party with

45:18

I'm just not that person am at

45:21

the moment and I wish we had

45:23

our takes on the whole well and

45:25

I'll be there to support them respective

45:27

of who as them are just with

45:29

a strong. Fancy crack

45:32

at it one day. Cup

45:34

when you've matured. he sang at the moment.

45:36

I'm like readies him at some point or

45:39

another. Know you never know what the future

45:41

of you never know what the future future

45:43

holds an Ascot. As for general election fosters

45:45

my power status. Simpson think he. Is

45:57

the news agency. Having.

46:01

It with explaining why least

46:03

dedicated bring the whole of

46:05

this episode as to what's

46:07

happened in Scotland. With that

46:10

resignation. And it's broadly

46:12

because. I guess two things.

46:14

One decency has been this: Fear.

46:17

Most the him a spent a suit out

46:19

for they have you him off that's an

46:21

alcoholic Butterflies it's it's it's always drug the

46:23

modeling well with the wings. I

46:26

think a buses of the strength. Of.

46:28

What? They athena suppose here so no

46:30

rights us I think the seventeen

46:32

years he counters. That has two thousand and

46:35

seven rice for success. An astonishingly long

46:37

time. In Power on the longest in

46:39

Europe running with yeah, so. Ada sat

46:41

and see We were all talking

46:43

since last week about a potential

46:45

summer election here. Now it might

46:47

not happen. It probably won't happen.

46:50

It probably is going to November.

46:52

But not only that, we'll expect

46:54

seeds. And Rolexes we don't know is individualize

46:56

in that Tabor's it can be November. That

46:58

still up in the air. Whatever.

47:00

Happens in Scotland to the essence. He

47:02

could very easily dictates what happens

47:05

to labor and therefore the ultimate

47:07

outcome of that general election and

47:09

his cousins prison. And I think

47:11

there was no independent Scotland Us

47:13

to and he cannot separate what.

47:15

Happens. There to what will happen in

47:17

the Uk as a whole. And that's

47:19

why this is all a sort of

47:22

rearrangement of power. Essentially yeah and look

47:24

the way the polls are at the

47:26

moment. statically kissed armor doesn't need Scotland's

47:28

to get a majority because the suppose

47:31

right than it should be able to

47:33

achieve with rest of Uk bus the

47:35

Labour party with. Desperately.

47:38

To: it's cool. with hall. And.

47:41

It's psychological foundations dearly. Love A

47:43

Visitation Scotland A revival in Scotland

47:45

because the Labour party was born

47:47

in Scotland The Great Cigarettes first

47:49

great skilled Labor party Ramsay Macdonald

47:51

Key Harding's They Was God's Hands

47:53

it deeply deeply pine like Fourteen

47:55

Twenty Fifteen when it loss for

47:57

she was seats in the Central

47:59

by. They see things did. dominated. Been

48:01

so really relatively recently and I'm in

48:03

the early bumpy. Thanks mate The time.

48:05

Labour Party without Scotland is like about

48:07

without wings, but of course it does.

48:09

Just on a purely general election come

48:11

to preside matter obviously would makes almost

48:13

as much easier you can get. Twenty

48:16

those seats back. Thirty seats my was it not

48:18

only next task easy as majority could be even

48:20

bigger and I think steam Flynn is right we

48:22

should unpacks a little bit of what seems as

48:24

told us that. I think she's definitely

48:26

right in. The Swinney sends out.

48:28

A message to Labour that labour does not

48:31

want to hear, which is. We. Will

48:33

be a stable policy. a Scottish government

48:35

again and right now labor isn't quite

48:37

relaxed position of thinking it's all of

48:40

a house. I felt that we don't

48:42

have to worry too much. will be.

48:44

Okay, that on. I think

48:46

Swinney does present a bigger

48:48

challenge to Labour taking those

48:50

costs of seats. Than Than was

48:53

nice. While I mean the thing with Swinney

48:55

is the he seems to be the best.

48:57

going to have at least some stability in

48:59

the short medium term to keep the party

49:02

together as a compromise for good. because we've

49:04

talked about basically on the big scenes of

49:06

history is the Snp left and right wing

49:08

become increasingly clear visible to the naked eye

49:10

in a way that they previously been very

49:12

cohesive, so swinging at least theoretically would bind

49:15

them together. I think that may be an

49:17

ulterior reason. I'm sure he believes it, but

49:19

in some the Stephen Flynn look p. Basically

49:21

source of alluded to in a sense which is

49:23

though thing about in a young cardinals like old

49:26

popes which is you can see not quite ready

49:28

yet but I might be one the linear i

49:30

think I mean you can see with Yatim on

49:32

the show before he's a pretty accomplished performer is

49:34

clean up with our ambition and if it were

49:36

to be Swinney and he with the be there

49:38

for the next couple of years that would be

49:41

just enough scientist even flinch get himself as the

49:43

in Holyrood by which son he would be a

49:45

can send a great fear would be that full

49:47

to take over in his room under she was

49:49

seamounts it didn't clear answer the question of. What

49:52

he was saying to him css

49:54

on that when things as real

49:56

as opposed to what ensues suck.

49:58

His green cabinet members clearly. The

50:00

to u Cel what's healthy, stay with me

50:02

on. This is a man I wouldn't

50:04

be patronize enough to say I gave him

50:06

some advice, but we do know that

50:08

there were people on the in a circle

50:11

that I'm who is listening to quite

50:13

closely of know Wednesday. I thought it was

50:15

an evening, but it might have become

50:17

afternoon and whatever happened happened very quickly that

50:19

Thursday morning. Either it was a massive

50:21

miscalculation or the possible those who advise him

50:24

or they were setting him up for

50:26

something that and perhaps they could see coming

50:28

or it was all his own. Idea and

50:30

he handled it very badly and there's nothing

50:32

anyone else could have done to stop it.

50:34

I was just another reason we haven't talked

50:37

about quite as much, because it felt more

50:39

distant. There's another reason yes, M P's implosion

50:41

is is putting it looked too strongly yet.

50:43

but troubles really really matter which is of

50:45

course the fate of independence itself which is

50:47

not quite synonymous with the Snp. But independence

50:50

needs a political vehicle and for the last

50:52

ten years it has been Smp. As we

50:54

said, they've been so primary kind of vehicle

50:56

of of independence, the kind of only party

50:58

really of independence and to quite. Recently and

51:00

I think it will be tempting and

51:02

I've seen a bit commentary around this

51:04

today to sort of conclude to say

51:06

wealth. In a while the reasons Smp

51:09

a struggling is because really there's no

51:11

obvious immediate path to independence. Westminster was

51:13

blocks it, There was an is great

51:15

clamor for in Scotland and Labour will

51:17

come back and everything will be fine.

51:19

I think that is to underestimate the

51:21

extent to which the last ten to

51:23

fifteen years have fundamentally recites Scottish politics

51:25

around the constitutional questions. And although

51:27

the Snp. May be becoming. Less.

51:29

Popular Independence itself.

51:32

Couldn't. All the our and he's remaining pretty

51:34

robust between forty to forty five percent, if

51:36

not higher. And as we know, it has

51:39

a young demographic on it's side, young people

51:41

are overwhelmingly fiber in the both. Some you

51:43

can imagine a well, perfect storm of for

51:45

libel with come in, where the Snp? Yeah,

51:47

they may be damaged, but they may not

51:49

be in a way. the conservative my and

51:51

a pig destroyed or becoming a sort of

51:54

force which is really, really powerless and you

51:56

could see a world in which they might

51:58

be able to regain popularity under. Dharma

52:00

Government as an alternative to labor And

52:02

so while I'm saying is is this

52:04

yes at the moment right now Independence

52:06

looks like it's on the slide by.

52:08

sing along with some people who wanted

52:10

to buy this is Scotland or More

52:12

confidence map it's prospects if not. The

52:15

prospects of isn't yet and I think

52:17

that referendum. The Scottish referendum that David

52:19

Cameron allowed when he was prime Minister.

52:22

That he then one. Said

52:24

the union movement essentially. Gave

52:26

him in some shape or form the confidence to

52:28

think that he was good at referendums. Like you

52:31

get some, he knows how to win them. May

52:33

have been the most hubris stick step that led

52:35

him on. To the bricks it referendum

52:37

which seamlessly he looks for. We go

52:40

wishes same place people have missed it.

52:42

We had an Investigation Guidance Investigates episode

52:44

out on Sunday which was about the

52:46

rise real crisis in temporary accommodation which

52:49

is basically affecting hundred and forty thousand,

52:51

two hundred and thousand children. This country

52:53

now are homeless, just two men on

52:55

the streets. They are homeless and is

52:58

affecting them as you might imagine, their

53:00

education and eventually their life chances in

53:02

all sorts of ways. We think it's

53:04

a really hidden. Crisis is imported from

53:07

reporting on as he can go back on

53:09

your feet and listen to us. Is also

53:11

known as will See Summer of I Eisner.

53:15

The News Agency with Emily Mages, John

53:17

Sobel, and Louis. Good old.