0:02

This is a Global Player

0:04

original podcast. The

0:08

power sharing deal between the SNP in

0:10

Greens in Scotland has collapsed. The First

0:13

Minister, Hamza Yousuf, is holding an emergency

0:15

cabinet meeting at his official residence in

0:17

Bute House in Edinburgh. It has not

0:19

been easy since Hamza Yousuf became the

0:22

leader of the SNP and the breaking

0:24

news coming out of Scotland that

0:27

he is ditching his coalition

0:29

partner, the Green Party, before

0:31

the Green Party ditch him, a sort

0:33

of almost teenager, I chucked him, no

0:35

he chucked you, has

0:37

been taking place and it leaves

0:40

the SNP looking so vulnerable.

0:42

Yeah, Hamza Yousuf is insisting

0:44

that he is today taking control

0:46

by getting rid of rogue elements

0:49

in his own government and he

0:51

says he can now govern as

0:53

a minority in the SNP. But

0:57

the Conservatives in Scotland have other

0:59

plans. They have just called for

1:01

a vote of no confidence. It's

1:04

Hamza Yousuf, First Minister in Scotland

1:06

and the SNP itself, now

1:09

hanging by a thread. Welcome to

1:11

the News Agents. The

1:15

News Agents. This

1:18

is John. It's Lewis. And

1:21

it's Emily. Oh God,

1:24

this episode is going to be hard work

1:26

from now on in. Later in the podcast.

1:28

Is everything all right? I just

1:30

looked at you. I just looked at you. Yeah,

1:32

OK, children, behave please. We're going to carry on with

1:35

the podcast. Later in the

1:37

podcast we're going to be hearing from

1:39

Mick Lynch, the General Secretary of the

1:41

RMT, about the re-nationalisation of the railways.

1:43

We also asked him about Angela Rayner.

1:45

He's got an interesting take on her

1:47

problems. My criticism of Angela is she

1:49

bought a councilor, which is different criticism. She's

1:51

the one else. Mick Lynch and the Mail are

1:53

actually on the same side of that. I mean,

1:55

that's a thing. I would have a evangelist and

1:57

Angela would expect me to say that. start

2:00

in Scotland with Hamza Yousuf, who took

2:02

to Bute House and made his speech

2:04

in the drawing and what is essentially

2:06

the 10 Downing Street of

2:08

Scotland. And he basically called

2:11

time on those

2:13

two green partners in his

2:15

coalition in government and said,

2:18

this isn't working out. It's not

2:21

me, it's you, essentially. And

2:23

the sense is that he

2:25

got ahead of them because they

2:28

have decided to call a vote

2:30

amongst their own members on whether

2:32

they wanted to stay in a

2:34

coalition with the SNP after the

2:36

SMB ditched its targets on climate

2:39

change, on net zero, essentially. Hamza

2:41

Yousuf thought that if they're doing a vote

2:43

and the party is going to say, no, I don't

2:45

want to be the one left looking vulnerable or

2:47

abandoned, I'm just going to chuck them first. So

2:50

the way I had it explained to me was

2:52

that the intelligence from the SNP

2:55

from within was that it was

2:57

75 percent certain that the greens

2:59

were going to ditch the SNP.

3:02

So what happened last night was the

3:04

men in Greykilt went to see

3:06

Hamza Yousuf and said to him, you

3:09

know what, this is over, this is done.

3:12

You cannot do this any longer.

3:14

And Hamza Yousuf, who has been

3:16

buffeted by endless events, just had

3:18

to surrender and say, OK, I'll

3:20

call it off tomorrow, even though

3:22

a couple of days earlier he'd

3:24

said that the arrangement is

3:26

working out very well. What this

3:28

person said to me, this is what he was, that Hamza

3:31

Yousuf hasn't turned out to be a Nicola

3:33

Sturgeon 2.0. He's turned

3:35

out to be a Nicola Sturgeon 0.5. So

3:38

yeah, so the background to this, of course, goes back to

3:40

the Hollywood elections in 2021. The

3:42

SNP once again have, I far and away, the biggest

3:44

party. But they are a minority, as they

3:46

have been for most of the time. They've been in office since 2007.

3:49

I mean, they're just one short at

3:51

that point. Yeah, a couple short. Nicola

3:53

Sturgeon, who is still first minister at

3:55

that time and still riding high in

3:57

Scottish politics, still completely dominant, negotiates a...

4:00

a coalition agreement. Well, technically it was something

4:02

slightly short of a coalition agreement, a power

4:04

sharing agreement with the Scottish Green Party, who

4:06

of course the other major pro-independence party in

4:09

Holyrood that unites them. Sturgeon at the

4:11

time says she's very animated by the

4:13

Green agenda and she thinks it will

4:15

add new energy and new dynamism to

4:17

her government to have these green ministers,

4:20

including Patrick Harvey, the co-lead of the

4:22

Scottish Greens in the government. That's

4:24

been in place since 2021,

4:26

but it has become increasingly

4:28

shaky. Obviously, Sturgeon, as one

4:31

of the main drivers behind the agreement,

4:33

is gone. It was inherited by Hamza

4:35

Yousuf, the newish first minister,

4:38

and even over the past couple of weeks, it

4:40

has been buffeted by

4:42

one thing we've already described, which

4:44

was the SNP government's decision to

4:46

withdraw from its commitment to reduce

4:48

carbon emissions in Scotland by 75%

4:50

by 2030, widely regarded to be

4:52

completely unachievable,

4:55

recognition of reality that it wasn't going to

4:57

happen. Even like just this week,

4:59

there was a green plan in the Scottish parliament,

5:01

a set of flagship justice reforms,

5:04

which included controversial plans to hold

5:06

rape trials without a jury. Many

5:09

MSPs abstained on it from the SNP

5:12

side. The Greens backed it, and the

5:14

Greens are angry, basically saying that the

5:16

SNP cannot deliver their own members to

5:18

the government's proposals again and again. I

5:20

think that is behind what Hamza

5:22

Yousuf is saying this week when he said, I

5:24

don't think we can listen to the clip now,

5:26

that this is an arrangement that was no longer

5:28

guaranteeing stability. It is now my

5:30

judgment that the balance

5:32

has shifted. The Butte

5:35

House Agreement was intended to

5:37

provide stability to the Scottish

5:39

government, and it has made possible a number

5:42

of achievements, but it

5:44

has served its purpose. It's

5:47

no longer guaranteeing a

5:49

stable arrangement in parliament. The events

5:51

of recent days have made that

5:54

clear. Yeah, and I've been talking

5:56

to people within the SNP this

5:58

morning. One of the Greykills I

6:00

understand, was Stephen Flynn, the leader of

6:02

the SMP at Westminster, and

6:05

this person who was talking to

6:07

me was explaining that they

6:10

think it's a result, not least, of

6:13

the culture wars, actually,

6:15

that they said

6:17

people have a perception that the SMP

6:19

is no longer talking about the things that

6:21

actually matter to folk. And I

6:23

asked him to break it down, what are you talking

6:25

about? Trans has been a

6:28

massive part of this. There's a lot of

6:30

infighting, people are talking amongst themselves. You'll

6:32

remember, perhaps, that the

6:35

SMP changed its mind after the Cass report

6:37

came out and followed Westminster

6:39

in its plan to stop

6:41

puberty blockers being used in

6:43

the Scottish Health System. The

6:45

Greens do not agree with that move. And

6:48

in fact, Patrick Harvey, one of the leaders

6:50

who was fired this morning, has expressed doubt

6:52

over the scientific credibility of the Cass report.

6:54

So there was a sense that the

6:57

two parties were already starting to go

6:59

in separate directions. And

7:02

in essence, the SMP has said to itself,

7:04

look, we don't want to get into the

7:06

weeds. We don't want to look like we're

7:08

having infighting. We don't want to start sort

7:11

of turning in the inward firing squad. We

7:13

have to look now like we're talking about

7:15

mortgages. We have to look now like we're

7:17

talking about council tax. And the reason they're

7:19

doing that is because they've seen the polls.

7:22

They're looking at the Westminster elections and they

7:24

see they are neck and neck with labour

7:26

and they realise that if anything happens that

7:28

loses them on a Westminster level, they're also

7:31

out of government. Well, and the wider implication of

7:33

that is, I mean, the latest polls do suggest

7:35

that labour and SMP are neck

7:37

and neck. Now, if this latest

7:40

meltdown Or crisis that's facing

7:42

the SMP, if that knocks on into

7:44

new opinion polling, if Labour start creeping

7:46

up, you know, they win a couple

7:48

of seats. If Labour get to 40

7:50

percent in the polls and the SMP

7:52

are well down. then Labour run the

7:55

tables in Scotland. I mean, then you're

7:57

making huge gains and that really shifts

7:59

the election. That crow arithmetic massively in

8:01

terms of what the Westminster parliament looks

8:03

like after the next election. Also, Labor

8:06

releasing their lips that takes hello. This

8:08

could see a really important turning point.

8:10

Yes, we thought we were on target

8:13

when a few more seats and Scotland's

8:15

they could be about with loads if

8:17

the Snp implied yeah, because labour an

8:19

hour able to run schools Conservatives would

8:22

or as well but they are able

8:24

to and a set the same charge

8:26

against this Mp. To. They have

8:28

been suffered border in. Western.

8:30

Soon against the conservative government wishes to

8:33

say that this is a political force

8:35

which is intellectually politically exhausted and which

8:37

had been dominant for so long and

8:39

yet can no longer delancey stability and

8:41

it is a difficult thing I'm guessing

8:43

him we already said the use of

8:46

is clearly try to get ahead of

8:48

something that was going to make him

8:50

look even more frail coming from the

8:52

very very beginning his eyes not entirely

8:54

without making money sweaty imagination but since

8:56

the his first minister ship has been

8:58

buffeted by events almost from day. One

9:01

with all sorts of political events not least

9:03

of course the remarkable downfall of Nicola Sturgeon

9:05

the arrest of stars in the My husband

9:07

be Tomorrow she was of them release but

9:10

he has now been charged the former Us

9:12

empty chief executive in the party's finance scandals

9:14

and it's almost as if I mean again

9:17

you know him Rishi see that can kind

9:19

of over a dram of whiskey woman with

9:21

game, nice guys, many small lemonade or Mexican

9:23

coke but they can exchange council a dynasty

9:26

in the sense that both of them a

9:28

struggle to have a clear run from day.

9:30

One and this just augment that sense for use

9:32

of. and it's such a difficult line he's tried

9:35

to perfect today, right? Because you know it's a

9:37

difficult line. Politically to say this was a great

9:39

agreement sunday that one or two days and it's

9:41

delivered great stuff. But by the way now we

9:43

need to end it. Love Hundred and I must

9:45

say at we should. Listen to that says a

9:47

sense where he was extolling the virtues. of

9:49

this wonderful coalition just last week

9:52

as a lot of stories that

9:54

of course. I

10:01

don't want to be members. Will also seen. That.

10:04

He has the word i'm a gay wet

10:06

seal comparison with the toys. The word that

10:08

was east me was gunners. I didn't know

10:10

that the full just set up set up

10:12

to the back to the electorate have had

10:14

enough. They've got no bandwidth for listening to

10:16

kind of you know the politicking. Of politicians

10:18

when the trying to get on with stuff. But

10:21

I think the way that humvees of has

10:23

been trying to so what happens is quite

10:25

interesting because he's saying oh Juno was. We

10:28

will rid of the green Sad. Because actually the

10:30

Greens got in the way some for economic policy,

10:32

We know that. The. Greens have managed to have an

10:34

optimist in terms of in as of a sudden

10:36

growth policies that it really believe a sustainable growth

10:39

in. The way the Us impeded, they

10:41

disagree with aviation policy. They disagree with

10:43

Nato membership. They disagree with other things

10:45

that I think some of the use

10:48

of Will now is used to say.

10:50

Look, we can. Do more on our own.

10:52

We can grow in different ways on a

10:54

road we will be rich us without the

10:56

greens. From Patrick Harvie who was one of

10:58

the fired Co leaders, this is what you

11:00

heard today. A little correction in the. Morning

11:04

the two of us my fellow

11:06

couldn't unborn I went to a

11:08

meeting with first minister a few

11:10

house where she informs us of

11:12

has defected to Nz Cooperation agreement

11:15

between the Scottish government of the

11:17

Scottish Greens assess as a total

11:19

few times on his possession. From

11:22

recent weeks on even days where he

11:24

had reassess, it has government's commitment to

11:26

the progressive policies that are parties are

11:29

jointly agreed on on the d to

11:31

ramp up time at home in the

11:33

faces decades of political and incidents in

11:36

the whole season. So that was passed

11:38

his hobby saying oh come on hubs

11:40

are you telling us a moment ago

11:43

there was a fantastic and as you

11:45

said emily housing and is the prospect

11:47

Wow, That. The Snp reinvents

11:49

itself as a pro economic growth

11:51

party. You know will and topic

11:54

that we're those green commitments. Now

11:56

we can go for economic growth.

11:58

Financial well being are you. Suddenly

12:00

seeing the. Snc. Becoming a

12:02

very different. Parts were from the progressive

12:04

one that Nicola Sturgeon imagined when she

12:07

saw the coalition with the Greens. The

12:09

Richard Yes. Although in doing so that

12:11

would be difficult because in the thing

12:13

is is that the Snp and we've

12:16

seen this play out over the last

12:18

couple of years. The Snp enough it's

12:20

a big political force of in Scotland

12:22

with tended think of it partly because

12:24

it acted this way for many many

12:27

years. They have historically had iron clad

12:29

discipline by comparison, so most Westminster. Parties

12:31

They have been quite sort of totalizing

12:33

in the way they approach politics, but

12:35

we've seen in recent years that discipline

12:38

begin to break down on the is

12:40

partly because it is a political force

12:42

like most independence movements around the world.

12:44

Actually, it's most of them have quite

12:46

different views about all sorts of fundamental

12:48

issues with in politics. Were it not

12:50

for the adhesive of independence. They.

12:53

Wouldn't get together and indeed if it

12:55

were the case it's gotten would receive

12:57

it's independence. It's things very lightly the

12:59

Snp with split apart into different groupings

13:01

and we have seen that play out

13:04

in recent years, particularly on the receive

13:06

of gender self, Id and other culture

13:08

war issues. and the problem with the

13:10

green element was is that was basically

13:13

superimposing? Yes, and of it was basically

13:15

extending the coalition even further, thereby making

13:17

the inherent tensions within the Snp even

13:19

more. See what was happening today is

13:21

a mind. Yet does get is it hadn't

13:24

been from the use us as first minister when

13:26

they held the elections. It. Could have been

13:28

take foods very narrowly she last ferry

13:30

now. Very different view. A completely. Different

13:32

wing of the party who has very

13:34

strong views on gay marriage for example,

13:36

presumes he sits very differently on trans

13:38

issues, on abortion is she's. She's

13:40

economic liberal season. Economic Liberal. she

13:42

does not look like a Nicola

13:45

Sturgeon Smp progressive as tools. and

13:47

so you're right. If you take

13:49

out the independence, fill the nationalism.

13:52

The end. They're. Very different

13:54

policy. and it's no surprise of those

13:56

tensions are becoming more cute now precisely because

13:58

we are a lot point in the electoral

14:01

cycle where independence and the prospect of independence

14:03

has not looked more distant than at any

14:05

point over the last 10 years. That's not

14:07

to say that lots of people still don't

14:09

support independence in Scotland, but in terms of

14:11

it as a political journey, it's been running

14:14

out of road. Look, the raison d'etre for

14:16

the SNP was to deliver a referendum on

14:18

relationship with the union. And if they

14:20

can't do that, which they can't at

14:22

the moment, then the SNP

14:24

loses some of its reason. And

14:27

the problem is that the SNP, as a

14:29

party of campaigning, has been absolutely

14:31

brilliant and came very close to

14:33

winning the referendum in 2014. But

14:35

conversely, they

14:39

haven't been proved to be that great at

14:41

governing. And that is where it's coming home

14:43

to really hurt them with some of the

14:46

policies that they have followed and pursued in

14:48

the way that you've outlined it. Yeah. And I think the

14:50

thing that's panicking them now, quite frankly, is

14:53

the way that the vote

14:55

is positioned in Scotland. Because if

14:57

you look at the voter percentages,

14:59

three to four percent of the vote could

15:02

mean the difference between the SNP having

15:04

10 seats or having 42

15:06

seats. The way it's distributed means that

15:09

there are so many knife edge seats

15:12

that they just don't know they

15:14

need that four percent to hold on to

15:16

what has been for the last two decades, pretty

15:19

much a massive majority. And for the first time

15:21

in many, many years, their political position is genuinely

15:23

frail, in the sense that the Labour Party is

15:25

doing better than it has done for a long

15:27

time. That's not to say that they're doing nearly

15:29

as well as they're used to, but they're doing

15:31

better. You still got the remnants of the Conservative

15:33

Party, which will sweep up a certain sort of

15:35

old core unionist vote. You've now got the Greens

15:37

on the outside who will try and position themselves

15:39

on the social, liberal now.

15:43

Well, yeah, the sort of social, liberal,

15:46

progressive, cosmopolitan, pro-independence kind of side of

15:48

things. And then you've got these sort of

15:50

neuro-independence forces, including Alex Hammond's party, Alba. So

15:52

you can see all of these forces trying

15:54

to sort of chip away at

15:58

what has been a completely dominant block for the S.A.

16:00

When you're gonna lose their confidence, those are the

16:02

abilities. Of us have. So this is a question

16:04

our is that in parliamentary times it's very well

16:06

be very interesting to see whether uses Maybe he

16:08

brings Cake Forbes in to the government may be

16:10

brings out and some of these people who have

16:13

been on the outside to try and signals that

16:15

this is a new tattoo administration it will be

16:17

as one former operative Nicholas doesn't to subsidise. this

16:19

was a make or break a desert of it

16:22

is a sort of brave move and it does

16:24

give him the opportunity to recast himself. What we

16:26

shouldn't forget that the arithmetic of the Scottish Parliament

16:28

is difficult on this will now mean and more

16:30

uncertain it's I mean they've governors, minority. Many times

16:33

before so that used to Rip of the got

16:35

the Greens will be sorely pissed off and will

16:37

not be in a position to or not be

16:39

politically minded to support about anything. You've got us

16:42

Reagan who people love her. When she was on

16:44

this show she's been as and Pms base.

16:46

She now moved over to Alba Iconoclastic Sega. Many

16:48

people think that See will now have the deciding

16:50

vote on all sorts of issues in alphabetical sums

16:53

for the Snp. Now Snp minority ministrations. gonna be

16:55

tough. Will be back in a minute. With.

16:57

Mikolaj. This

17:07

is the news

17:09

agents. So. Labor

17:12

began the day talking about

17:14

the biggest overhaul. To to all

17:16

railway system in a generation. They

17:18

think I'll rail system is

17:20

broken and they basically want

17:23

a single publicly owned. Body

17:25

to run all the countries trains

17:27

on track to improve. Passenger journeys

17:29

and cut costs, but there's a big

17:32

as. The. Rolling Stock. The

17:34

freight is not brought into this

17:36

public ownership body. Eats in other

17:38

words, was still competing with some

17:41

private business interests. Rubbing up

17:43

against us that the government will

17:45

control. Of. Course or a

17:47

rail passengers. I guess

17:49

the only two questions

17:52

you're really interested in

17:54

is one. Of

17:56

my trains gonna run on time is

17:58

and two tickets. Getting a ticket. Up

18:00

or down? or will the fares structure

18:02

be simplified because of the moment? He

18:05

is slightly bewildering, and if you are

18:07

trying to get to Manchester, On of

18:09

Antiques is tended not to worked out

18:12

terribly well since they've taken over the

18:14

contract. That was British understatement. But what's

18:16

And so those are the questions. And

18:19

I think that is the question that

18:21

Louise Hade, the Shadow Transport Spokesperson, is

18:23

trying to answer. Said. Today I

18:25

calm down and say that will love affairs

18:28

but what we are saying is that will

18:30

simplify them at passengers have to contend with

18:32

a dizzying array of different types of size

18:34

and at ticket structures and what we're saying

18:37

is that we will at at have an

18:39

ambition for best backgammon Say said just as

18:41

when people travel in London and the top

18:43

in and sat out the system they have

18:46

confidence that they're getting the lowest possible fab.

18:48

Four that journey? I'm not sure that simply.

18:50

Say it's this early a great thing if you

18:52

don't know actually talk about prices coming down. You

18:54

can just say everything. Five hundred pounds which would

18:57

be by simple and not for suspect it's size

18:59

of fair point. I don't see that is labor

19:01

policies ever tickets to go by the well else

19:03

that are that's not going to be a the

19:05

manifest us. The thing about. So. Rail

19:08

privatization when it happened and it was

19:10

a surprise. Us has a son of

19:12

six Margaret Thatcher this was not privatization

19:14

taco by my without your she thought

19:16

this was a privatization to fall it

19:18

happened during that your mages are the

19:21

railways that was passing ninety ninety three

19:23

which pays the weights for real privatizations

19:25

at it is always been a thought

19:27

a bit of a month said that

19:29

they've created with the differences between the

19:32

rail operating companies as a truck maintenance

19:34

and the divisions over who's running the

19:36

stations and all the. Rest of it

19:38

and it is just kind of

19:40

one of those things that is a

19:42

confounded miss. The most people agree on

19:45

a laborer not calling it renationalization. But.

19:48

It does sound like pretty much. That.

19:50

The railways a coming back into the

19:52

problem yet so is this is already

19:54

stances right? So the Government The conservative

19:56

government has already taken one Network Rail

19:58

that's been on Texas. since 2014

20:00

and four other railways are

20:02

in last results places. So

20:05

I guess you have to say it is a big

20:07

shift but it's also a continuation in a

20:09

way it's just speeding up something that they

20:12

can see needs to happen by the end

20:14

we have to say of the parliament so

20:16

it's another five years away possibly. Yeah so

20:18

this is something that the rail unions have

20:21

been calling for for ages

20:23

because they have thought that the

20:25

kind of current structure is just

20:27

unworkable and manageable and that actually

20:30

too many people are making too

20:32

much money whilst we the passenger

20:34

are getting an ever worse service.

20:37

Well I'm delighted to say we're joined

20:39

in the studio now by Mick Lynch

20:41

the general secretary of the RMT union

20:44

and we've had this labour announcement

20:46

today I mean

20:48

is it renationalization? It's part renationalization public

20:50

ownership I think the term we use

20:52

so right sorry the train operating my

20:54

language wrong the train operating companies the

20:56

14 companies that we've been in dispute

20:59

with and the reputation has been damaged

21:01

for a long period will

21:03

be taken back into public ownership on

21:06

a rolling program as the contracts terminate

21:08

or at contract review time so that could take place

21:11

quite quickly some of them under a new government presumably it's

21:13

at the end of the year so in the new year

21:15

we could see some of that happening and

21:18

they will be incorporated into a

21:20

national entity great british rail which

21:22

is actually the idea of Andy

21:24

McDonald the previous labour railway

21:26

spokesman under Corbin's manifesto

21:28

that was in in that manifesto and

21:31

we will have some cohesion and

21:33

some coherence to a

21:35

national railway operating body but it's not complete

21:38

so one of the biggest problems is the rolling stock

21:41

leasing companies who take billions out of the industry akin

21:43

to the PFI that we've got in public sector

21:46

and the freight companies will not be taken into public.

21:48

So how many marks out of 10 do you give

21:50

it? Six and a half I'd

21:52

say. Oh six and a half that worked great. Work to

21:55

do well because it's a no-brainer it has to happen it's

21:57

always have done some of it already because of the failure

21:59

of the train operating companies. But we've got

22:01

a lot to do. What we'd like to

22:03

see is a transport act that

22:05

gives us an integrated transport policy that recognises

22:08

the failures of the bus privatisation. We're not

22:10

allowed to have municipal bus companies in

22:12

this country. It's illegal. So

22:14

the provincial towns outside London and

22:17

the counties are crying out for new bus services,

22:19

which are actually the mass

22:21

transport system in Britain, neglected and

22:24

failing. We need more green

22:26

policies. We need the rolling stock policy.

22:28

The rolling stock manufacturers aren't coming back.

22:31

British Rail used to make all its own trains in

22:33

Doncaster and Crewe and Shilden

22:35

and all sorts of places that got emptied

22:37

by a Thatcherism. And so to

22:40

completely un-Thaturise the economy, which is what we're looking for, we

22:42

need to go a bit further. But we're

22:44

looking forward to a change of government. If we get a

22:46

long period without the Tories, we'll

22:48

get more changes. It's very easy to get

22:50

romantic, isn't it, about the idea of, you

22:53

know, sort of reliving British Rail? Well, we're

22:55

not doing that. And we're not romantic. I've

22:57

worked for them. So I'm not romantic. Well,

23:00

I guess what I'm asking is if the railways become

23:02

another public service, right? You see how

23:04

stretched we are at the moment. You

23:07

see where the government decides to put its priorities.

23:09

You see where we are, you

23:11

know, with the NHS and sort of desperately needing

23:13

to fund that. Why would

23:15

the public put the

23:17

railways first before any of the other

23:20

public services if it came down to yet

23:22

another one? Yeah, it's a good point. But

23:24

it's not the Labour Party is approaching this on

23:26

a cost-neutral basis, whether that's realistic or not, is

23:29

another matter. Well, just deal with that. You

23:31

don't think it is? Well, in the long

23:33

term, I think it can't be because if

23:35

you want to look at carbon emissions and

23:37

change from road use to

23:39

public service use, you're going to have

23:41

a has to have a more comprehensive

23:43

20, 30 year plan about transport. We've

23:46

seen the disaster of HS2, no matter

23:48

what you think about HS2. The

23:50

management of it has been a disaster. And

23:53

that's been a private sector project overseen by

23:55

a Tory government. So The railways are failing.

23:57

They're full of subsidy now. The

24:00

subsidized to take massive profits and it's

24:02

a point of the media don't make

24:04

the rolling stock. Leasing companies take two

24:07

hundred and fifty million pound at least

24:09

every single year. Ten billion pounds is

24:11

good at the railway in profits. The

24:14

same issues are happening on water. Massive

24:16

dividends have been paid out with no

24:18

investment that winners are going to touch

24:21

with A running start right? So I

24:23

see those subsidies still. But they and yeah

24:25

and that's a problem they will have

24:27

to deal with. Do they want to

24:29

keep doling out this money to people

24:32

who don't make trains? They don't maintain

24:34

the trains and that. but they keep

24:36

the ownership Fruits really complicated financial instruments

24:38

in Luxembourg in the Caribbean and all

24:41

this stuff all a sneaky stuff that

24:43

people do to avoid paying tax and

24:45

avoid been under a jurisdiction. People sing

24:47

them railway companies own trains These talks

24:50

as a cool try to bring companies

24:52

do not own anything. Didn't

24:54

have stations his tracks, they don't even

24:56

own staff because our members can be

24:58

moved on the to P transfers immediately,

25:01

visas into tonight or and on investment

25:03

go from it completely him thing. that's

25:05

what I don't There's no investment the

25:07

foreign company. So this and Cs and

25:09

Ds and Cbd European rail companies have

25:12

no invested a penny in the railways.

25:14

All they do is get a franchise.

25:16

They get to buy some uniforms and

25:18

real livery the trains. Some of the

25:21

trains were built by British Rail. Some

25:23

of the trains. Were built by Alstom

25:25

from France, Siemens from Germany, a

25:27

Hitachi from Japan. Very few British

25:29

jobs, but the train offering companies

25:32

are not plop penny. This is

25:34

a great miss. You think that

25:36

capitalists invest capital. They make your

25:38

returned as as a goal right?

25:40

Profit: seven of they make no

25:42

investment in the railway A never

25:44

have done. Everything is done by

25:46

subsidy now, but there is an

25:48

army of accountants and lawyers looking

25:50

at delay attribution how it's all

25:53

paid for every. time to trying

25:55

leaves station there's a financial

25:57

transaction between network rail and

26:00

operator and sometimes by the Treasury and

26:02

the Department for Transport. It's a bureaucratic

26:04

nightmare if we had a single entity

26:06

railway, at least we'd understand it, and

26:08

could criticise it on its own terms

26:10

that you're not running the rail properly

26:12

and there'd be proper accountability. Somebody will

26:14

have to stand up and say I

26:17

am the Chairman or I am the Chief

26:19

Executive, I'm accountable for what's going on in

26:21

this railway. At the moment nobody is accountable.

26:24

So when you hear Rachel Reeves saying

26:26

if I become Chancellor the next Labour government will be

26:28

the most pro-business the country has ever

26:30

seen. The key to the future

26:33

is unlocking private business investment. What do

26:35

you think? Well I'm a bit sceptical

26:37

and I don't like Labour Chancellors coming

26:39

out with that because the

26:41

Labour movement has got a right to have

26:43

a say and she shouldn't just be listening

26:45

to business. Do you think she is? Well

26:47

to be fair we are getting access to

26:49

shadow ministers and some of

26:51

this policy, we haven't dictated this policy on

26:54

transport but we've had an input into it.

26:56

They haven't done as much as we want but they've

26:59

done some good stuff. So you know I'm not making

27:01

the perfect the enemy of the good on this.

27:03

We've got a new deal for workers coming through

27:06

about all this stuff about zero hours

27:08

contracts insecure work, the way

27:10

that real wages have declined in working

27:12

class communities massively over a very

27:15

long period, over a 40 year period. The people

27:17

that are running your services in the councils, in

27:19

the hospitals, ancillary workers and all

27:21

that are now on the level of poverty. She's

27:23

got to recognise that and she

27:25

can't just think that outsourcing and casualisation

27:27

of work cuts to terms and additions,

27:29

pensions, holidays are the answer. They're not.

27:31

We need a high wage economy with

27:33

a highly motivated workforce. But your muted

27:35

response to what Rachel Rees does suggests

27:37

to me that you kind of understand

27:39

the politics of it, that Labour are

27:41

trying to appeal. But we need an

27:44

alternative economic strategy, we need an alternative industrial

27:46

strategy. Are you seeing that from Labour at

27:48

the moment? Not particularly. No, I think everyone

27:50

would recognise that. Business are quite satisfied with

27:52

what they're going to do. Some of the

27:54

railway big players have said today

27:56

they're happy with what Labour's transport policy is and

27:58

we'll have to do that. these arguments in

28:00

bus, we'll have the arguments with ferries, the P&Os

28:03

of this world. We don't want

28:05

them to be happy with the New Deal for

28:07

workers. We want them to be uncomfortable. And the

28:09

French government, ironically, has done something about that in

28:11

the last week or two. They're making P&O squirm.

28:14

Labour should be making some of these big businesses

28:16

who've had 20 or 30 years

28:18

of happy days a bit nervous about

28:20

what's coming in. They were nervous in 45. They were

28:24

nervous in the 70s. They should be thinking,

28:26

how am I going to accommodate myself to

28:29

a transition of wealth and power

28:31

in the economy? And that's got to

28:33

happen. That's what Labour should stand for. So

28:35

we'll be pushing through the TUC for an alternative

28:37

economic strategy. There's got to be a bit of

28:39

tax and spend. I'm not shy about saying that.

28:42

Labour politicians feel they can't. But

28:44

everybody knows that's got to happen if we want to

28:47

restructure the country. When you hear that

28:49

54% of the country's

28:51

against the train drivers strikes, is

28:53

that a good number for you? I mean, along those

28:55

lines, do you want people to be unhappy? Is

28:57

that what helps your I don't

28:59

want people to be happy. Nobody wants to be on

29:01

strike. And nobody wants to be subject to a service

29:04

that's got strikes in it. So our members are on

29:06

strike. We got very high numbers in the

29:08

opinion polls not produced by us, produced

29:10

by our enemies. I saw channel five, they

29:13

did a result saying, do you condemn the

29:15

RMT and 80% of people said no, live

29:17

on the programme and it's not our audience. So

29:20

there was a reaction in the last two years to

29:23

disputes. That was not what Grant Shapps

29:25

wanted. If you go back to when Grant

29:27

Shapps was forminating when he was over

29:30

there at the DFT, he was saying, I'm

29:32

going to ban strikes hasn't happened. I'm going

29:34

to get a substitute workforce of agency labour

29:36

hasn't happened. And the unions will be on

29:38

their knees within two weeks. Well,

29:40

we're still here. He got sacked. I know

29:42

he's now masquerading as the Minister

29:45

of Defence now and masquerading with a

29:47

new budget that he's trying to put out.

29:49

He's not masquerading. He is the defence secretary.

29:52

Well, he's got pretend money and pretend

29:54

expenditure on the defence services, it seems,

29:56

but he will never get to produce any of this.

29:58

So they masqueraded as a gun. at the

30:00

moment, because none of it will get fulfilled. He

30:02

used a really interesting word which is enemies. And

30:05

I think it's quite revealing because

30:08

you are an ex- If you deal with some of the

30:11

mainstream media, the Telegraph, I know

30:13

you have, the Telegraph and the Mail

30:15

and the Sun, they are our enemies. They want

30:17

to do us in. They're talking about the media,

30:20

not the politicians. Because I think, you know,

30:22

most people listening to this or watching this

30:24

will recognise you are, you are

30:26

the working class hero, you're the champion of the

30:28

underdog, you are brilliant on the media, you

30:30

demolish people like us. But I

30:32

wonder if when you look at where we are,

30:34

genuinely, 18 months on, five weeks

30:36

or more of strikes in total, you

30:39

can concede that actually, the action

30:41

hasn't really led to any significant

30:43

concessions. This talk- Oh, exactly. You

30:45

know, Tory enemies- No concessions from us. What they said to

30:48

us- But where did you get it? That's what I'm saying.

30:50

Well, because what they said to us during COVID actually, we

30:52

are going to rip up your contracts of employment. We've

30:55

got a Railways Pension Scheme, a £40 billion

30:57

scheme that we have

30:59

defended. We have not made one concession. They

31:02

wanted to close our members out of that scheme. Only

31:04

8% of workers in this country have such a

31:06

scheme. They wanted to take all of our contracts

31:09

of employment and throw them in the bin. We

31:11

have not conceded one item. And

31:13

I spent all of my time on the media

31:15

saying, this is not about pay. Members

31:18

have told us they want to keep their

31:21

negotiated contracts, which most people in this country,

31:23

including people in this building, have

31:25

had taken off of them because they end

31:27

up as casualised without a contract of employment,

31:29

not knowing where their work is going to be next

31:32

week. We have kept all of

31:34

that, as have Azlef, the train

31:36

drivers' organisation. We've not conceded one inch- No,

31:38

but you haven't found resolution. You haven't found

31:40

negotiation. Well, we got a pay rise last

31:43

year, which gave an underpin to our members

31:45

from the talks that was worth up to

31:47

10%. Most of our

31:49

people got five and some of them got 10. So we did

31:51

get a deal. Well, if you were happy with where you

31:53

were, you would say, right, the strikes are over. We're

31:55

not doing anything like that. Because Hugh Merriman

31:57

and Mark Harper, the ministers, have still got the same-

32:00

agenda so we're in a ceasefire at the moment and we'll

32:02

come back to that this summer it

32:04

depends how strongly they want to pursue that

32:06

agenda so you will know this mate but

32:08

your the criticism is coming from

32:11

the left half the time it's coming from

32:13

people like your biographer Greg Agal who's talked

32:15

about the lack of strike pay that if

32:17

you know my brother he chose to do

32:19

a biography of me a biography of my

32:21

involvement of course he's talking about the

32:23

fact that if you thought a bit more

32:25

carefully about the 25 million pounds that the

32:28

RMT has in shares why didn't that go

32:30

towards what is funding strikes why

32:32

didn't that helping people to

32:35

get it away you want to frankly

32:37

talking nonsense he's never run an organization

32:39

we have an investment portfolio like many

32:41

organization do and that gives income about five

32:44

or six percent a year which

32:46

is vital to the operation of our union if

32:48

we sell all our assets we won't

32:50

be able to continue our members of

32:52

the body you're in a ceasefire or a deadlock other

32:54

people would call it do you think labor's gonna make

32:56

my organization has been going 153

32:59

years and we've had bigger things than this in our

33:01

past existential crises

33:03

and we will continue and we will

33:06

be here after this Tory government enough

33:08

just to say we're not in an existential crisis

33:10

presumably we are surviving and we've maintained

33:12

our terms and conditions and maintained our

33:14

most vital asset our railway pension scheme

33:16

which was under attack members

33:18

worked to the same conditions they did

33:20

before the pandemic they haven't got

33:23

as high pay but we will recover that

33:25

and we will continue to fight on our

33:27

agenda so will it be any easier better

33:30

more profitable under a labor government I think

33:32

we'll have a more coherent transport policy including

33:34

rail and if they've got anything

33:36

about them they will show people that that

33:38

is to the benefit of the entire country

33:41

and it's good for their health but on

33:43

the issues that are outstanding now and for

33:45

us we will have a less hostile government

33:47

that it's not about rail workers

33:49

they're trying to show the rest of the

33:51

country that you cannot organize And

33:53

fight back or negotiate good deals. What they're

33:56

trying to say to the rest of the

33:58

country is under a Tory government. Your

34:00

future is outsourced and it's the minimum you

34:02

will get out of laws. You'll be on

34:04

the minimum wage. You'll be on the minimum

34:07

conditions. What the union movement as to say.

34:09

We want to raise all of the boats.

34:11

We want to end outsourcing. We want to

34:13

end minimum pay levels. We want everybody to

34:16

be on collectively bargain terms of positions. That's

34:18

what we're fighting for and it's what we

34:20

will fight for it. I in seventy one

34:22

show but I just wonder whether a Labour

34:25

government with Rachel Read as the Chancellor kiss

34:27

Dharma who wants to be seen as a

34:29

business friendly. And is also cozying up

34:31

to the Sun newspaper good the hope that

34:33

he will get their endorsement of gonna give

34:35

you the sort of things that you've just

34:37

delineated where you have you don't have any

34:39

ground. Nobody gives anything to his atoms and

34:41

additions and I pay is not just. We.

34:44

Have to negotiate them and the only way

34:46

you get proper negotiations is have in that

34:48

industry leverage. But when know they have you

34:51

have any is keen to modernize those terms

34:53

to get this is a zero. Invented people

34:55

think you're kind of outdated. slightly runs the

34:57

last Labour government under John Prescott had a

35:00

dispute fargo sunni. And. That was

35:02

a really tough dispute. Labour has

35:04

had lots of tough disputes in

35:06

it's history. We expect a robust

35:08

response from Labour and we will

35:10

be were busting returns. but we

35:12

also hope they will be a

35:14

bit more intelligent. you don't have

35:16

to charges. When. You want to

35:18

get change. We've dealt with change modernization

35:20

since the first local was put on

35:22

a Stockton in the I into his

35:25

or whatever it was. So we've always

35:27

dealt with change. We have far less

35:29

members and leads to have. We've got

35:31

electronic communications, we've all trains we got

35:33

no steam. With a local that we

35:35

always do would change and we will

35:37

do with a under labour. Eating is

35:39

miriam same range of it for years

35:41

me they'll be live a basket of

35:43

all. We had half a million members.

35:45

Now we've got many less things, change

35:47

and. We survive and so does our

35:49

terms of additions and that's what we're

35:51

about. We want negotiated settlement? Lets us

35:53

a couple of quick question spend on

35:55

the East Supported Jeremy Corbyn Son: Isn't

35:57

independence? I live in things and seats.

36:00

Would you like to see... And Jamie Driscoll in the

36:02

Mayor's election next week in the Northeast? Right. Would

36:04

you like to see Jeremy Corbyn back in the Labour Party? Is

36:06

that important to you? Yes, that's what Jeremy Corbyn

36:08

wanted, that he had the chance to stand

36:11

in a democratic election under the Labour Party's

36:14

rules. Jamie Driscoll... Get wrong on that one.

36:16

Absolutely wrong. Jamie Driscoll wanted the same thing

36:18

for the Northeast, a really important election, and

36:21

he was not allowed to stand. Why can't they

36:23

just beat people they disagree with through

36:25

the Constitution of the Labour Party rather

36:27

than having them purged? What about Angela

36:29

Rayner? Do you think that the way she's

36:31

being attacked at the moment over the sale of her

36:33

council house and all the rest of it is

36:36

fair game, given that she was kind of

36:38

like almost the chief prosecutor when the Tories

36:40

were in trouble and if they had... Well,

36:42

Angela can stand up for herself. My criticism

36:44

of Angela is she bought a councilor, which

36:46

is different criticism from everyone else. You,

36:49

Middlish and the Mail are actually on the same side

36:51

of that. I mean, that's a thing I would have

36:53

with Angela, and Angela would expect me to say that.

36:55

I'll be supporting Angela. I don't think she's corrupt. I don't

36:57

know what goes on with her tax affairs. I know it's

37:00

really minor. If you want to go into

37:02

what people have done about tax avoidance, there's

37:04

several members of that cabinet and

37:06

former members of the cabinets who've done things

37:08

that are extraordinary about tax and

37:10

tax evasion and tax avoidance, who never had to

37:12

account for it. We've had a

37:14

government that's been mired in corruption for decades,

37:16

as far as I'm concerned. So

37:18

what we're seeing is misogyny and

37:21

a bit of class politics. The Mail

37:23

and the Sun and the Telegraph are

37:25

delivering a direct attack on

37:27

a working-class woman who's trying to make her

37:29

way and make a difference for

37:31

all of the people of this country. I'll be standing behind

37:33

her. I'll have to see what

37:35

the investigations say, but why can't the police just get on with

37:37

it? Daily Mail

37:39

dictate what police investigations go on in

37:42

Greater Manchester. And just so when you

37:44

hear Keir Starmer cosying up

37:46

to the Sun in the hope that there'll be an editorial

37:48

that says vote Labour in the general election, do you think

37:50

he's mad? I don't like it. I don't like it when

37:52

Kinnock did it. I don't like it when

37:54

Blair did it. I don't think he's mad. I think he knows

37:57

what he's doing, but I don't think it's the right

37:59

way to go. Labour has lost connection in

38:01

some working class communities, which is the red

38:03

wall and the Brexit vote as they see

38:05

it and all that. They've got to

38:07

find a way to say to people, whether

38:09

it's through transport policy, whether it's social care, whether

38:11

it's a new deal for workers, but

38:13

even the green industrial revolution, you could

38:15

have said to people, we're going to

38:17

make your houses warmer. We're going to

38:20

refurbish these council estates. We're going to

38:22

get jobs for your youth in your

38:24

communities and put that a different way

38:26

and they would have won that and defended that position

38:28

better. So I think there's a job to

38:31

do. Labour have got to show they're in step

38:33

with working people, not just in step

38:35

with business. But I appreciate business will

38:37

be around and you have to deal with them. So

38:40

that's the future. But you've got to appeal to both sides

38:42

of the equation. Mate, what's the

38:44

worst train line in the UK?

38:46

What's the one you never ever get on? Well, I

38:48

have to get on it because the worst line has

38:50

probably been a vanity West Coast lately. That's

38:53

what he says. That's right. It's but

38:55

they've propped it up when they could have taken the

38:57

contract off them because the person negotiating

39:00

the chairman of the RDG, the Rail Delivery

39:02

Group that was negotiating with us was the

39:04

person that runs the vanity West Coast. And

39:06

what's the worst station? Oh, did it nicer?

39:08

What's the favorite station? So then we can

39:10

come to the worst. Well,

39:12

my favorite station is Warwick

39:14

Avenue, where I grew up. Made of

39:17

elk. I'm a paddington boy. It's a

39:19

very nice station. And Paul

39:21

Weller lives just outside it. I can

39:23

see that. So you go underground, do you? Oh,

39:26

I saw what you did there, mate. I saw the jam

39:28

back in the 70s. So did

39:30

I. I was there, unfortunately. Me too. Still

39:33

going. Yeah. Punk's

39:35

not dead. Never. A bit lynched. Thank

39:37

you. Thank you. This

39:41

is the news agents. Here

39:52

we go. GB News has been

39:54

doing some polling. You know GB

39:56

News. That's the station with Jacob

39:58

Rees-Mogg, an estimate. and all

40:01

sorts of Lee Adams, Yeah,

40:04

neither in barrage. It's speaking

40:06

truth to power. Yeah, it's been

40:08

doing some polling among its viewers

40:11

About where they stand politically and

40:13

it's interesting. Labour under

40:16

this new set of polling is 11

40:18

points ahead

40:21

of the conservative Gb

40:24

news viewers voting intentions. This

40:27

is a poll by jail

40:29

partners who actually I think the

40:31

That we've had them as guests on the

40:33

podcast before the J in the jail used

40:35

to work for Theresa May So they do

40:38

not come this particularly from the left or

40:40

I'm sure from any angle but they

40:42

have asked viewers of the channel to

40:44

gauge their voting intentions and Gb

40:47

news viewers are putting labor 11 points ahead. This

40:49

is such a good story because it reminds us of two things

40:51

one is How far

40:54

ahead labor are and what

40:56

this speaks to you to some extent is the

40:58

gulf between the labor and the conservative is so

41:00

massive that even in Organs that

41:02

you would necessarily expect to be conservative and I

41:04

suspect this will be exactly the same for a

41:06

lot of newspapers like the Sun For example, you

41:08

would expect to have a more conservative You

41:10

can be more conservative, but still labor. Yes Because

41:14

the Gulf is so vast But the other thing

41:16

it reminds us of is that for all of

41:18

the talk of the culture wars in this

41:20

country and the idea That we're deeply polarized

41:22

and all this sort of stuff the irony

41:25

of all of that talk Which is predicated

41:27

on the idea that the elites are sort

41:29

of talking down to people and so on

41:31

the elites might have a culture war The

41:33

elites are deeply polarized and bifurcated in sort

41:35

of hard left hard, right? Whatever it happens

41:37

to be hard conservative labor Whatever the truth

41:39

is the electorate the British electorate not true

41:41

in America But the British electorate is actually

41:43

not nearly as polarized as all that and

41:45

so even for all of these places like

41:47

GB news Which on the surface cater

41:49

for that culture war and that deal is

41:51

depolarized electorate The truth is most of their

41:53

viewers are just reasonably ordinary people who are

41:55

actually just moved with the tide in a

41:57

way that most people Do yeah, and Tim?

42:00

make a slightly different point but it's the same sort

42:02

of thing is that just because

42:04

you read The Daily Mail or

42:06

The Sun or whatever you may be reading

42:08

it for the sports coverage you may be

42:11

reading it for the show business or whatever

42:13

it happens to be. And the lesson for

42:15

politicians is with newspapers and

42:17

with news outlets the British

42:20

public are not obsessing about politics in

42:22

the way that you are or maybe

42:24

we in this podcast studio are and

42:27

it's a good reality check to

42:29

realize that just because you watch GB news

42:31

and they've said something outrageous on GB news

42:33

doesn't mean everyone is going to vote conservative

42:36

or reform or likewise in The Sun, likewise

42:38

in The Mail. I'm going to give you the numbers here

42:40

because it's 39% of viewers

42:42

that plan to vote Labour at the next general

42:44

election, 28% for the conservative

42:47

and reform 20%. Now that is much

42:51

higher than we've seen in any by-election vote.

42:53

20% for reform I think

42:56

tells you that the

42:58

conservatives are correct when they feel

43:00

the Pinsa movement coming from both the left

43:02

and right. But then I suppose they do have

43:04

both their former leader in the form of Nigel

43:07

Farage effectively, they're on their party president and they're

43:09

currently they're having shows on it. Maybe actually and

43:11

their henchmen, Lee Anderson. Indeed so but maybe this

43:13

has worked in the opposite the way that we

43:15

always thought right. We always thought that it was

43:18

dangerous having like Jacob Rees-Morg and Lee Anderson and

43:20

the rest of them having shows and going that's

43:22

going to influence people's make vote conservative. Maybe it's

43:24

gone the other way around. Maybe GB News viewers

43:26

have seen it and thought that. I'm alright thanks.

43:28

I'm very Labour. If I was the

43:31

head of GB News Angelou Frangopoulos would

43:33

I be thinking it's about time I

43:35

started employing Labour MPs

43:37

like in a sort of business way

43:40

would you be killing your

43:42

audience to get in? In a business where

43:44

you might but this is the very interesting thing

43:46

about them as a business right in a

43:48

business where you might but then we know

43:50

where a lot of the funding for that network

43:52

comes from and it is coming from people who

43:54

have got Paul Marshall, Legatum all these people

43:57

who are part of the intellectual movement trying

43:59

to instill and infuse those pretty

44:01

radical ideas as part of our politics.

44:03

So those two different aims or

44:05

objectives could be separate in this regard. I

44:07

suppose the other thing to draw from it

44:09

is when you look at the

44:12

numbers for Labour, who like GB News,

44:14

and you look at the numbers for

44:16

Reform, who like GB News, are

44:18

the Conservative Party right to be cropping themselves

44:21

abso-bloody-lutely? Because this is

44:24

their worst nightmare, isn't it? Labour well ahead and Reform

44:26

taking a lot of their votes. It also reminds us

44:28

a bit about why sometimes people say, why does Keir

44:30

Starmer or the rest of them, why do they do

44:32

interviews with the Sun or the Telegraph or whatever? It's

44:35

a good reminder as to why, is through

44:38

all of the way that we think about

44:40

those newspapers and their readership, the Sun, even

44:42

the Telegraph, the Mail, all of them have

44:44

substantial numbers still of

44:46

Labour readers. When Wes Streeting talks

44:49

about middle-class lefty voters, and he pulled them up

44:51

for that in our interview, he knows exactly what

44:53

he's doing. He goes on GB News and talks

44:55

about middle-class lefty voters and they all think, oh,

44:57

Wes, you're one of us. We won't be back

45:00

tomorrow, but someone else will. Holding the force, as

45:02

always, for both of you. You're so brave. And

45:04

I'll be watching GB News. And I'll be watching

45:06

GB News, Sir Alan. Alan

45:08

Goodall, they called me at school. If

45:11

you believe that, you'll believe anything. I bet they

45:13

did. As you ran around the ping-pong table. You

45:16

could say, we didn't have ping-pong. I

45:18

sometimes get that image laughing at night and I try to

45:20

get shit from my head. I told you to stop thinking about

45:22

me laughing at night, laughing at night, laughing

45:24

at night, OK, goodbye, bye-bye. The

45:27

News Agents with Emily Maiklis, John

45:29

Sople, and Louis Goodall.