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This is a Global Player

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original podcast. Hi, Gabby. Hi,

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Mark. So here we are after another busy

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week. We're back with another weekend edition of

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The Sports Agents. The

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Sports Agents. With Gabby Logan

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and Mark Chapman. We're

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just over a week out from the

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fight of the century between Tyson Fury

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and Alexander Usyk and boxer term pundit

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Karl Frampton joined us to explain the

0:34

latest drug scandal to rock the boxing

0:36

world. And it was a

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dramatic week in the Champions League with a

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former Stoke City striker sending Jude Bellingham's Real

0:43

Madrid into the showpiece at Wembley. But

0:45

first, let's take a look at a rule change

0:47

in cricket and the use of impact substitutions in

0:50

the IPL. That's led to some

0:52

huge scores, but does it really

0:55

enhance the game? The Telegraph's cricket

0:57

correspondent Nick Holt joined us. I

1:01

think batsmen now bat with more freedom.

1:04

They attack the ball more than they probably would have done

1:06

a generation ago. Batsmen also

1:08

now are bigger, stronger. A

1:11

young player coming through is probably

1:13

training himself to become more

1:15

successful in T20 because that's where the big

1:17

money is. You look at Joe Root and

1:19

Harry Brooke. When Joe Root grew up wanting

1:22

to play Test cricket, being a great Test

1:24

cricketer, Harry Brooke, probably looking to do that

1:27

and be a really big hitter in T20

1:30

as well. So we can even see

1:32

that in the generations within this England

1:34

team, certainly in the IPL players now

1:36

are hitting sixes for fun. And therefore

1:38

the debate is whether that makes it

1:41

a good product, doesn't it, Nick? And I'm not

1:43

sure whether I've said to Gabby before, I'm not

1:45

sure whether this is a traditionalist

1:47

old duffer point of view or

1:50

whether it's just a, actually

1:52

you do, you do want a bit of balance. And

1:54

I was saying to Gabby, you know, some of the

1:56

best games are the low scoring game, so I'm

1:59

not necessarily. you're not that soon six after

2:01

six after six makes it a better product?

2:03

No I don't think it does I think

2:05

it's becoming mundane now sixes. I was thinking

2:07

on the way in I was thinking about

2:09

six sixes in an over which Gary Sobers

2:11

did in 1968 and I think

2:14

there were two more instances of that happening up

2:16

until about 2007 and we've

2:19

had on average one a year since 2017 so you can see

2:21

how the hitting of six

2:24

has become an every every

2:27

day every ball event almost I think we're gonna get

2:29

to a point probably in the IPL not that far

2:31

away where we'll see a score of 300.

2:33

What you have Gabby is at the moment it's

2:36

just a real not

2:38

necessarily a muddle but a

2:40

real fight for players attentions

2:42

loyalty and players fighting

2:45

for wealth around the world as

2:47

well and therefore to try if you're

2:50

a county trying to manage a

2:53

players contract and their care it's

2:56

nigh on impossible because they might appear for you a

2:58

couple of times but then they might go and appear

3:00

in the IPL for a bit or then they might

3:02

be used need to buy England

3:04

or they might have done a deal for for

3:06

major league cricket it's a real muddle

3:08

and at the lowest

3:10

level you've still got because we were

3:12

talking about this survey that the PCA

3:15

have done you've got ridiculous demands being

3:17

placed on just your

3:19

run-of-the-mill and I mean that in

3:21

a complementary way county cricketers who

3:23

are going the length and breadth

3:25

of the country. Let's bring some

3:27

headlines up from that PCA survey.

3:29

It's interesting obviously focusing on welfare

3:31

focusing on things like tiredness and

3:33

and the worries the players have are really

3:35

quite it sounds quite mundane but unsafe travel

3:38

and when I first read that I thought

3:40

what are they using old buses what's wrong

3:42

with them and then realizing it's when they

3:44

get back late at night they're then driving

3:46

home late at night then driving early somewhere

3:48

the next day and actually players saying that

3:50

they quite often and this is over 76%

3:52

they can't remember getting home in

3:54

the evening which is extraordinary isn't it

3:56

that you think surely they can be

3:58

kind of responsible the county be responsible for

4:00

getting their players to bed at night. But

4:03

that's a very different kind of problem, isn't it?

4:05

If you look at it as a professional to

4:07

what's going on in the IPL, the other areas

4:09

of cricket. Well,

4:12

Mark, apart from you, I think, completing that

4:14

thesis on how cricket sorts

4:16

itself out, it was one of those kind

4:18

of frustrating conversations, interesting, illuminating as it was, that you

4:20

kind of end up thinking, where do they go from

4:22

here, cricket, in sorting out their

4:25

schedule, their timetable? As we sort of alluded

4:27

to in that chat, there are just so

4:29

many different interests, both within

4:31

the domestic game in this country,

4:33

but within the global game, that

4:36

I can't see how we end

4:38

up with something that suits everybody.

4:41

I think there's just too much

4:43

self-interest from everybody, really. Yeah,

4:45

and it's a battle, isn't it, between, and we all

4:47

know them, those absolute die-how traditionalists

4:50

who really, if they absolutely

4:52

are pushed, they might watch something that's

4:54

not four-day, five-day test match, and then

4:56

those who have come to the sport kind

4:58

of late because they like the Raspotass of

5:00

100. You know, you've got these many kind

5:02

of conflicting elements of the sport. Absolutely,

5:05

and where they meet in the

5:07

middle, I just have no idea.

5:10

The sports agents. The

5:14

sports agents. We now know

5:16

it's Real Madrid against Borussia Dortmund in

5:18

the Champions League final at Wembley next

5:20

month, as Real are searching for title number

5:22

50. Is

5:24

the Jude Bellingham final in so many ways?

5:27

Well, it is the Jude Bellingham final in

5:29

many ways. Real Madrid against Borussia Dortmund. The

5:31

one thing I did like last night, because

5:33

I was covering the game for radio, and

5:37

afterwards, you sort of talk

5:39

about the differing reactions, how Real Madrid

5:41

will react, how Bayern will react, but

5:43

also the feelings around Borussia

5:45

Dortmund that they now get Real Madrid in

5:48

a final rather than Bayern in a final.

5:51

Archie Rinn took the German football journalists, who I

5:53

was talking to, came up with a great line.

5:56

They would be happier

5:58

beating Bayern. but they

6:00

would be happier losing to Real Madrid.

6:02

And I love the way that football

6:04

fans always think like that. There is

6:07

that, do you know

6:09

what, actually, I'd rather not play our big rivals

6:11

in a final because that makes it 10 times

6:13

worse if we lose. Which to me, what you just

6:15

said there, they've already lost because they

6:17

go in, these Galactico's have got this

6:20

unbelievable... I mean, this season alone, they've

6:22

come back from so many losing positions against

6:24

big teams. They've got this incredible history

6:26

in this tournament. Even when they're in

6:29

the past struggling domestically, they still put it

6:31

out the bag in Europe. It's all but

6:33

one, isn't it? There's an aura there. Yeah,

6:35

there is an aura there. And I

6:38

can't think of another club who

6:40

would happily wear shirts

6:44

after winning the semi-final with the number

6:46

of Champions League trophies they are going

6:48

to have if they win the final.

6:50

So they're all walking around with 15

6:53

on their shirts yesterday at the

6:55

end because if they win the

6:57

Champions League final, that will be number 15.

7:00

And when I left the Etihad after the

7:02

quarter final win for Real Madrid over Manchester

7:04

City, you know, there were City fans sort of

7:06

saying to me as we're leaving, how

7:08

do they do it? How do

7:11

Real Madrid consistently do

7:13

it? And as you say, Gabby, whether

7:15

they're performing well domestically, as they are

7:17

doing at the moment, even when they

7:19

perform poorly domestically, there is something

7:22

about forming this trophy. They get a player who couldn't

7:24

do it on a Tuesday night at Stoke and

7:29

they pull him up by the bootstraps and they say,

7:31

look, we didn't get Harry Kane, but Josselou, we have

7:33

you. And

7:36

with another doping scandal hit in

7:38

boxing, we discussed the noise around

7:41

sensation Ryan Garcia with former world

7:43

champion Carl Frampton and broadcaster Adam

7:45

Cattrell. Good

7:48

fader, really good fader. I think that he's

7:50

very, very fast. His hooks in particular the

7:52

way he threw that left hook is incredible.

7:54

You hardly see it, but the negative eye,

7:57

it's so quick. Although he beat

7:59

Devin Haney. I would almost

8:01

struggle to call him, he's

8:03

not elite level, he's not elite bracket, definitely world

8:06

class, but I wouldn't say he's like an elite

8:08

fighter, but still a very

8:10

good fighter and young and young enough

8:12

to still improve and become a better

8:14

fighter. The speed that you mentioned, or

8:17

the speed that Karl mentions Adam, is

8:19

actually, to be fair to Garcia, another

8:21

one of the reasons for how much

8:23

social media presence he has before everything

8:25

else that he's done, because he

8:28

built some of his social media presence on

8:30

the speed of his handwork. Yeah, absolutely. He's

8:32

the perfect example, as Karl's alluding to there.

8:34

I think there's a lot of people in

8:36

his weight category that are far better than

8:38

him when it comes to talent, but he's

8:40

the perfect example of how important the

8:43

things that you do outside of the ring

8:45

are in order to build brand, create eyeballs,

8:47

make money in

8:50

this game. He's a talented kid, there's no doubt about that. He's

8:52

a good looking boy as well. I

8:54

didn't like to mention that Adam, I

8:56

thought I might be objectifying him. He

8:58

does sometimes strip off and just show

9:00

you kind of how quick his hands are while standing

9:02

in a pair of trousers. There's a

9:05

certain demographic that would be quite happy with those

9:07

posts, sorry. When I do that, it has the

9:09

adverse effect, yeah, Gabby, you know, so... I

9:12

was just thinking that's maybe how I come

9:15

back to social media, maybe. I

9:17

think you should, chappers, I think you should

9:19

though. He is the perfect example of the

9:21

things that you do outside of the ring

9:23

are just as important as the things that

9:26

you do inside the ring. Karl will testify

9:28

that the kid does deliver those viral moments

9:30

inside the ring. That left hand is sensational,

9:32

he does deliver knockouts, okay, maybe against less of a

9:34

level of opponent. He's done it against Devin Handy. There's

9:36

loads of shadows over that fight, which I'm sure we're

9:38

going to speak about. But the

9:40

speed bag challenge is the things that he does

9:42

on social media have absolutely sent his brand into

9:45

the mainstream, which I think is really, really important.

9:47

The hardcore fans are always going to be here,

9:49

but the real money is to be made

9:52

with the mainstream. And Ryan Garcia is one of those

9:54

guys that has absolutely crossed over into that. He

9:56

does seem keen to keep fighting. It's not

9:58

something that he's kind of, you know, sort of... saying, okay,

10:00

well, that's kind of part A, now I'm

10:02

a personality. He wants to keep proving that

10:04

he's a great boxer. There are a few elements

10:06

to him that I think we still need to strip

10:09

down and Adam, one of them is the

10:11

controversy around the drug test because, you know,

10:13

that's really serious for the sport to have

10:15

a boxer with performance enhancing drugs potentially inside

10:18

him fighting, you know, you've said in the

10:20

past how dangerous this is and how it

10:22

doesn't just muddy the sport and make it,

10:24

you know, kind of its credibility drawn

10:27

into question. It's very, very dangerous. And while

10:29

that hangs over him, that should be a

10:31

black mark against him, shouldn't it? I mean,

10:33

some of the things that I've read over

10:36

the last week or so from, from fans

10:38

attitude towards it, a mind blowing

10:40

boxing has to change its attitude

10:42

towards performance enhancing drugs. What are

10:45

the sorry, Adam, what are those

10:47

fans attitudes then supporting him basically

10:49

saying it doesn't really

10:51

have an effect. It will, it wouldn't

10:54

have changed the outcome and supporting his,

10:56

I mean, you've all seen his

10:58

social media supporting his reasons as to why

11:00

we've ended up in this particular situation. It

11:03

really upsets me a little bit that boxing

11:06

doesn't seem to care about performance enhancing

11:08

drugs in the sport at the highest

11:10

levels. It doesn't seem to care. And

11:13

until we change our attitudes towards

11:16

elite level fighters, in

11:18

particular failing drug tests, then

11:21

the sport isn't going to change the towards agents.

11:25

I found that so interesting, especially

11:27

having Adam's brilliant, obviously, and his

11:30

entrenched in the sport, but having an actual

11:32

boxer there as well, I found

11:34

really interesting because, you know,

11:36

it's that conflict of kind of being

11:38

a character on social media, you know, and

11:40

drawing people in. And the discussion

11:43

on drugs in terms of the purity of the

11:45

sport as well, because I think you know, you

11:47

cover boxing through, you know, through radio, that there

11:49

are so many purists who want the

11:51

sport to be, you know, as clean

11:53

as possible, but also love

11:56

the art of boxing, and they want that to be appreciated. Yeah,

11:58

everybody would want it to be. clean,

12:00

wouldn't they? I think what was great with Carl

12:02

is that Carl did things

12:04

his way and sort

12:07

of out of the ring old school and

12:09

I mean that in a really complimentary way.

12:11

Carl is a Northern Irish

12:13

hero and that's what drove

12:16

his audience and his

12:18

following and then his talent

12:20

and ability as well.

12:22

But I also thought it was interesting

12:24

his answer because he obviously is a

12:26

traditionalist on one side of things and

12:28

say look, you know, boxing needs all

12:30

different types of audiences. Yeah, and you

12:32

think back to kind of Barry

12:35

MacGwigan getting 25 million for his

12:37

fights on TV, right? You know, and

12:39

Danny Boy being sung as he kind

12:41

of, you know, entered the arena, all

12:43

of that. There's always been a wonderful

12:45

kind of razzmatazzle show around the best

12:47

boxing bouts, the best boxers have had

12:50

that kind of celebrity stardust, haven't they?

12:52

That's not new. It's how it's being

12:54

played out. Well, exactly. I mean, and

12:56

Adam did the whole of that chat

12:58

with us with an artist impression of

13:00

Muhammad Ali over his behind

13:03

him, you know, the greatest showman. The

13:05

greatest showman. So I mean, go all

13:07

the way back through history for that

13:09

side of things with boxing. So

13:12

that was this week. Just scroll back through the

13:14

Sports Agents feed to listen to those episodes in

13:16

full, Global Player or wherever you get your podcasts.

13:19

And we'll have more every Tuesday and Thursday.

13:21

We'll see you next week. The

13:23

Sports Agents with Gabby Logan and

13:25

Mark Chapman.