0:00

We just finished recording the news agents

0:02

USA when some pretty big breaking news

0:04

happened and so we thought we should

0:06

start by bringing you up to date

0:08

on what this means. It is

0:11

a decision by the appeals court,

0:13

a federal appeals court, which has

0:15

stated that Donald Trump cannot use

0:18

presidential immunity as a shield against

0:20

criminal charges over alleged interference. And

0:23

just to explain, it was a unanimous decision,

0:25

it's a three judge panel. It

0:28

can still be overturned by

0:31

the Supreme Court, which could intervene

0:34

on Donald Trump's behalf, but

0:36

there is a potential likelihood

0:39

that they will let this pass

0:42

because the language the appeals court

0:44

has used is so

0:46

completely strident. It has made

0:48

it so clear that

0:51

it is unacceptable for him to

0:53

be given presidential immunity. It

0:55

almost begs the question as what argument

0:58

they would use to overcome it. It

1:00

is just to clarify a

1:02

huge win for Jack Smith,

1:04

who's the special prosecutor in the alleged

1:06

interference case. That court trial was meant

1:09

to be happening at the beginning of

1:11

March. It then got delayed, pushed

1:13

back whilst they were waiting for this. It

1:15

could still happen towards the end of March

1:17

now or maybe April, but in very, very

1:20

forceful language, the appeals court rejected

1:22

the notion of blanket

1:24

immunity. So this is quite

1:27

a critical moment because on

1:29

Thursday of this week, we

1:31

will be hearing what the

1:33

Supreme Court rules over the

1:35

Colorado question. This is whether

1:38

the former president should be

1:41

taken off the ballot because

1:43

he engaged in insurrection. This

1:45

was something that the Colorado

1:48

Supreme Court decided that got

1:50

sent up to the overall

1:52

US Supreme Court. They

1:54

will be deciding on that question on Thursday,

1:57

but right now in this news, it's just

1:59

reaching us. which we're going to explore

2:01

more fully on the newsagent's

2:03

daily show tomorrow, Trump

2:06

has been told that

2:08

presidential immunity does

2:10

not count. In other words, he

2:12

can face trial, he can face

2:15

those indictments over election interference. OK,

2:17

we're going to take you back, as

2:20

it were, down under, because John Sople

2:22

is in Australia with spiders. This

2:27

is a Global Player original

2:29

podcast. We have Republicans itching

2:32

to sign off on this in the Senate. Well,

2:35

it's hard to believe because I think it probably

2:37

would mean the end of their career. This is

2:39

a Democrat trap, it's a

2:41

trap for Republicans that would be so stupid,

2:43

so foolish to sign a bill like this,

2:46

this bill can't be signed. And it's

2:48

not only that, it's massive amounts of money

2:50

going out of town,

2:52

as we say, going out of town,

2:54

billions and billions and billions of dollars.

2:57

And it's so bad on the border. I've never said anything

2:59

like it. Actually, it's one of the worst, one

3:02

of the dumbest bills I've ever seen. Of course, it's

3:04

one of the dumbest bills that Donald Trump has

3:06

ever seen, because it's not

3:08

his bill. And therein lies

3:11

the reason why he's telling

3:13

Republicans to scupper it. They

3:15

have in front of them an immigration

3:17

bill, a very conservative

3:20

immigration bill, which would give Republicans

3:22

the ability to turn around to

3:24

their voters and say, we

3:27

are starting to solve the

3:29

problem of illegal immigration. Trump

3:31

doesn't want them to sign it, because

3:34

he wants it to be his

3:36

deal. And he doesn't want the

3:38

credit going to Joe Biden. And

3:40

as ever with Donald Trump, there

3:42

is just the merest hint of

3:45

menace. It would probably

3:47

be the end of their careers if

3:49

they signed it. Donald Trump means

3:52

what he says. He knows that

3:54

a threat like that works. If

3:57

Donald Trump tells them to do something,

3:59

Republicans will. Americans tend to jump.

4:02

Welcome to News Agency USA. It's

4:11

John, not in the studio. In

4:13

Australia with the spiders. There

4:16

are so many spiders that want to

4:19

kill you in Australia. It's really uncanny.

4:21

It's scary. John has just sent a

4:23

picture through of the spiders

4:26

that you have to identify. And

4:28

it's on his grandson's kindergarten

4:31

window. So that all the what are

4:33

they, three year olds can learn to

4:35

spot the spiders that will kill you. Okay,

4:37

well safe travels as they say. Meanwhile

4:40

here we've been speaking to John

4:42

Bolton, the former ambassador to the

4:44

UN. A man who has

4:47

never knowingly not called for war in

4:49

some shape or form. And

4:51

he's talking through today America's dilemma

4:53

right now in the Middle East

4:55

with Iran militants. And he

4:57

also talks to us about the

4:59

Republican Party and whether it has

5:02

lost its spine. We're going to

5:04

be hearing from him a bit later. But

5:06

we start right in the middle of

5:08

the thorniest issue for Congress right

5:10

now, which is this

5:12

bill before the Senate, which

5:14

has, dah dah dah, drumroll,

5:16

bipartisan support. In other words,

5:18

it is something that could

5:20

get through the Senate and

5:22

then get through the House.

5:25

If Republicans decide that they want

5:27

to go with their gut feeling,

5:30

go with their anti-illegal immigration gut

5:32

feeling and make it happen. Because

5:34

Joe Biden has put some pretty

5:36

tough measures in, including an ability

5:40

to absolutely shut the

5:42

border. If any more than

5:44

5,000 people come through on one day. We've never

5:46

seen that before. It is highly

5:48

conservative. And it is, in

5:51

theory, exactly what Republicans want,

5:53

except for that one

5:55

outstanding dilemma. Trump doesn't want it. Yeah.

5:58

I mean, what's interesting is that the Senate is not going to be able to do that. thing

6:00

about this bill and it has been

6:02

forged over months, it's got a

6:04

price tag of $118 billion,

6:06

$20 billion of which will be

6:08

spent on securing the border and

6:11

making it safer, money

6:13

to remove people who are there

6:15

illegally. It's also going to upset

6:17

the progressive wing of the Democratic Party

6:19

because it doesn't give a path to

6:22

the 11 million or so illegal immigrants

6:24

that are currently in the

6:26

US, which has long been a

6:28

demand of progressive Democrats. So it

6:30

does everything that the Republicans want.

6:32

It also secures funding for Israel

6:35

and for Ukraine. That may also

6:37

be a part of the reason

6:39

why Donald Trump doesn't want it,

6:41

but he just doesn't want to

6:43

give Joe Biden a victory. He

6:45

wants to keep the pressure on

6:47

his own Republicans not to

6:49

give anything that would signify that Joe

6:51

Biden has done something good for America.

6:53

So better to keep the border totally

6:56

porous, make it as easy as possible

6:58

for people to flood across so

7:00

that Donald Trump can stand up and

7:02

say, Biden did nothing about it. Yeah.

7:05

And what's fascinating as ever is

7:07

to work out where those spines

7:09

are amongst Republican senators.

7:12

We can hear from James Langford,

7:14

the Senator for Oklahoma, who

7:17

is asking Republicans why

7:19

they're going to self

7:21

harm, essentially. The key aspect

7:23

of this again is are we as Republicans

7:25

going to have press conferences and complain the

7:28

border's bad and then intentionally

7:30

leave it open after the worst month

7:32

in American history in December. Now

7:34

we've got to actually determine, are we going to just

7:36

complain about things or are we going to actually address

7:38

and change as many things as we can. If we

7:40

have the shot, and it's amazing to me, if

7:43

I go back two months ago and

7:45

say we had the shot under a

7:47

Democrat president to dramatically increase detention beds,

7:49

deportation flights, lock down the border to

7:51

be able to change the asylum laws, to be able

7:53

to accelerate the process. No one would have believed

7:56

it. And now no one actually wants to be

7:58

able to fix it. I don't

8:00

want to discuss it. We have to decide as

8:02

Republicans What are we going to actually do

8:04

about the border leave it open or actually leave

8:07

it closed? But as ever

8:09

the ambiguity allies

8:11

around the Senate leader Mitch

8:13

McConnell who Not

8:16

said anything publicly that can

8:18

be entirely interpreted one

8:20

way or another Reports

8:23

are that he thinks it is

8:25

better to cave into Trump because Trump

8:27

is going to be the nominee for

8:29

president That conflicts with you know sort

8:31

of counteraport saying no, no, no, he's gonna push it

8:33

through We think that he is going to push it

8:35

through Mitch McConnell always manages

8:38

to walk that tightrope of utter

8:40

ambiguity He doesn't like Trump But

8:42

he's also scared of Trump and he manages to

8:44

sort of fudge most of what he sort of

8:46

thinks or says out loud Until

8:48

after the dangerous past there was the

8:50

chairman of the Federal Reserve Alan Greenspan years

8:53

ago who gave a news conference one of

8:55

the journalists said I understood what you said

8:57

clearly and Greenspan shot back

8:59

and said if you've understood it clearly you've

9:01

misunderstood what I said because he wanted to

9:04

be as ambiguous as it was Humanly possible

9:06

to be because the chairman of the Fed

9:08

doesn't like to say anything and there is

9:10

something of that in Mitch McConnell in The

9:12

way that he communicates, but it does seem

9:15

that part of Trump's motivation Not just that

9:17

he doesn't want to give Joe Biden a

9:19

victory It's that he wants

9:21

to destroy the leadership of Mitch

9:24

McConnell in the Senate Because Mitch

9:26

McConnell has been a pain in

9:28

the backside to Donald Trump when

9:30

he was president Mitch McConnell

9:32

was very lukewarm about various measures He

9:35

would end kind of has was very

9:37

critical over Trump's involvement over

9:39

January the 6th Although arguably kind of

9:41

by not pressing ahead with an impeachment

9:44

very early on it saved Donald Trump's

9:46

skin And meant that he could run

9:48

again for power because he could have

9:51

easily been convicted early on So it

9:53

looks like Donald Trump's bad

9:56

blood with Mitch McConnell

9:58

is another motivating factor And

10:00

so he's trying to rally the

10:02

31 Republican senators who've already come out

10:05

and said they backed Donald Trump's presidential

10:07

bid to vote against this

10:09

bipartisan proposal because he doesn't want to

10:11

give the Biden a victory and he

10:14

certainly doesn't want to give Mitch McConnell

10:16

one either. Yeah. And meanwhile, in the

10:18

House, the lower chamber, the House of

10:21

Representatives, is Mike Johnson.

10:23

Now Mike Johnson has a very different

10:25

relationship with Trump. In fact, he

10:28

was one of those who was

10:30

trying to push through the election

10:32

denial lie in those early days

10:34

of January to help Trump over the

10:36

line, to help him, in other words,

10:38

try and overturn the result of Joe

10:40

Biden's presidency. But this

10:42

time round, Mike Johnson may or

10:45

may not have been threatened

10:47

by Trump with an

10:49

order to vacate. In other words, find

10:52

himself out of a job

10:54

if he doesn't lead Republicans

10:56

away from this deal. And

10:59

so the words coming out of Mike Johnson's

11:01

mouth, and nothing to do with the politics,

11:03

nothing to do with Trump, he's attacking the

11:05

bill head on and saying this isn't what

11:07

Republicans want to see. We did

11:10

read through it, Laura, and it did not

11:12

take long to realize that this is dead

11:14

on arrival. There's no way we could bring

11:16

this through the House. The bill itself would

11:18

actually do more harm than good. And that's

11:20

why we've said it's a non-starter over here

11:22

in the House. Okay. So that bill then

11:24

to cut legal immigration would actually further incentivize

11:26

illegal immigration according to Mike Johnson. You can

11:28

see they've got quite a battle on their

11:30

hands, and that's just within their own party.

11:33

Yeah. The other thing that is going on

11:35

in the House, and it needs

11:37

a bit of explaining, but it all relates

11:39

to the whole issue of the border. They

11:42

have started impeachment proceedings

11:45

against the Secretary of Homeland

11:47

Security, Alejandro Mayorkas. Now, he

11:49

is the equivalent of, I

11:51

guess, in Britain, our home

11:53

secretary. So, borders and internal

11:55

matters is Homeland Security's area

11:57

of responsibility. Now, the reason.

12:00

The. Game for impeachment is beyond

12:02

me because impeachment is because as

12:04

high crimes and misdemeanors. That's what

12:06

it says in the constitution. That

12:08

is when you impeach somebody. That

12:10

is why Donald Trump was impeached,

12:13

for example, after January the Six.

12:15

But the impeachment against Alexandra My

12:17

oh Cast. Has. Nothing to do

12:19

with whether they have been high crimes

12:21

and misdemeanors. It. Just seems to

12:23

be that they don't like his

12:26

policy which is again a toast

12:28

to use of caught of the

12:30

American Constitution and weaponizing the whole

12:33

impeachment process just to make it

12:35

part of routine hum drum a

12:37

political knock about our. Back to

12:40

my Johnson again because on Sunday

12:42

he was asked on embassies meet

12:44

the Press is he still believed

12:46

that single part him pizza was

12:48

an absolute travesty as he had

12:50

insisted over the Trump impeachment. Just

12:52

listen to this exchange. Here's what

12:54

you had to say about impeachment back then. Promise.

12:58

Of this country warned against single party

13:00

impeachments. The founders of this country warned

13:02

us against a single party impeachment. The

13:04

founders of his country warned against a

13:07

single party impeachment. You know why? You

13:09

guys know why. Because.

13:11

They feared it would bitterly, and perhaps

13:13

irreparably divide our nation. What?

13:15

Changed mister speaker. Nothing.

13:18

Nothing since I would repeat the same refrain

13:20

over and over. If that's the case then

13:23

is so. Is this Mary different now? Kristin.

13:26

In many ways we have followed the

13:28

facts where they have led. not for

13:30

political purposes, not because we take pleasure

13:33

in this. It's again a heavy things

13:35

to to look at the impeach him

13:37

have president or a cabinet secretary, but

13:39

these facts requiring that the House of

13:41

Representatives has the cost of responsibility of

13:44

impeachment and that begins with the investigation

13:46

and it must be very carefully methodically

13:48

done in a non partisan manner. That's

13:50

exactly what the house Republican majority has

13:52

done here In it is exactly the

13:55

opposite of what. The house Democrats did,

13:57

and the previous administers yes sir,

13:59

listening. Currently to make Johnson's

14:01

ounces to Kristen Welker there is no

14:03

difference and what was suited them then

14:06

A doesn't quite matter now because we're

14:08

in charge of we can so we

14:10

will. And again it just

14:12

tells you about so some of the

14:15

dysfunction in American politics right now with

14:17

a normal reasons to getting things done

14:19

just seem to have gone out of

14:21

the window. And either you can look

14:24

for something why does look at the

14:26

economy where you can see that the

14:28

Trump supporters up praying and I saw

14:30

someone one of people very close to

14:33

Trump putting out some report from some

14:35

obscure economy saying that could be a

14:37

crash in Twenty Twenty Four and you

14:39

thinking that is wishful thinking. They

14:42

want the economy to crash so

14:44

that Joe Biden doesn't get any

14:46

credit for the fact that the

14:48

economy the Us economy is humming

14:51

with the latest job seekers. Amazing

14:53

wage growth, outpacing inflation growth a

14:55

high level. It's all looking really

14:57

great to the Us. economy and

14:59

Republicans a desperate for that to

15:02

turn around. Yeah, I mean. In

15:04

the Clinton era, James Carville Hillis his

15:06

sort of in a chief strategist coin

15:08

this phrase that nobody's ever been able

15:11

to forget since then or stop isn't

15:13

since then, it's the economy stupid And

15:15

what that meant was going into any.

15:18

Presidential. Race: The one saying

15:20

that works with a metrics. When

15:23

a bomber got reelected, he'd just

15:25

nice to bring inflation down under

15:27

the key. Percent and that obviously

15:29

sort of helped spur him on.

15:31

When any one is about to

15:33

look for reelection, they're looking at

15:35

the numbers to bidens numbers what

15:37

ever met you use at the

15:40

moment of precede goods. he is

15:42

getting great numbers on. Job status.

15:44

He's getting great numbers on Bree inflation.

15:46

Down? Yes, Of course inflation

15:48

went. Up we know it went

15:50

up with the invasion of Ukraine.

15:52

So he's brought it down from

15:54

a high start, but it seems

15:56

as if people aren't hearing it's.

15:59

Because. They. don't want to

16:01

hear it. And obviously Democrats want the

16:04

message to be spread far and wide.

16:06

They're very conscious that when they're talking about

16:08

the economy there will be people who do

16:10

not feel like that even if the economy

16:12

is improving in terms of the data. There

16:15

will be people who are still pointing to

16:17

you know high inflation rates, who are pointing

16:19

to the cost of groceries, who are pointing

16:21

to the cost of gas. But

16:24

still they are not managing to sell

16:26

the message strongly enough because

16:29

there is so much tribalism

16:31

now that people have kind

16:33

of chosen their lanes and they can't hear

16:35

anything else. Emily if you

16:38

look at the some of the polling

16:40

data that is around on that that

16:42

is absolutely spot-on. Where a preponderance of

16:45

Republicans think the economy is

16:47

absolutely in the toilet and doing terribly

16:49

and going really badly wrong and the

16:51

cost of living is a disaster and

16:53

among Democrats there's a feeling that the

16:55

economy is doing really well. You would

16:57

think that the economy was one of

16:59

those things where you objectively can decide

17:01

whether you've got more money in your

17:03

pocket at the end of the week

17:05

than you had the previous month or

17:07

the year before that. It's not

17:09

kind of political and yet it

17:11

is because in America everything is

17:14

political and so the normal rubric

17:16

has been in American politics and

17:18

James Garvey is right. If you

17:20

have had months of economic growth,

17:23

if you had low inflation and people getting more

17:25

in their wage packets at the end of the

17:27

month then people feel good about

17:29

the economy and will tend to vote for

17:32

the president who delivers them economic well-being. And

17:34

you may be right and

17:36

this is the kind of nightmare for

17:38

Democratic strategists that that

17:41

doesn't happen in this election cycle.

17:43

That the economy plays no part

17:46

in kind of a lot of Americans minds

17:48

about how they vote. In the

17:50

White House they desperately want

17:52

to believe that with the

17:54

upturn in the US economy

17:56

then the votes will follow.

17:58

Then Joe Biden's approval rate

18:00

will also start ticking upwards.

18:03

And at the moment, there seems

18:05

to be a huge lag between

18:08

the upturn in the economy and

18:10

the upturn in Joe Biden's fortunes.

18:13

Well, in a moment, we're going to be hearing

18:15

from John Bolton. He's kind of

18:17

a political godfather in a way. He's

18:20

worked for Reagan, Bush 1, Bush 2,

18:23

and he actually works for Trump as his

18:25

national security adviser until, I don't

18:27

know, a sort of Damascene conversion. He

18:29

saw the light and he now speaks

18:31

quite openly about the danger that

18:33

Trump would represent if re-elected.

18:37

And we talked to him about America's

18:39

involvement in the Middle East now and

18:41

whether military intervention might make a Trump

18:43

comeback more likely. That's after break. The

18:48

News Agents USA with Emily Maitlis

18:50

and John Soper. The

18:55

News Agents USA. Ambassador

18:57

Bolton, clearly the Biden administration is

19:00

trying to target Iranian militants

19:02

at the moment. It seems without

19:04

getting drawn into a wider

19:07

regional conflict. Is that

19:09

possible? Well, I think we've been

19:11

in a wider regional conflict since October the

19:13

7th. All of this hostile

19:15

activity in the region, from the Hamas

19:18

attack to what the Houthis are trying

19:20

to do to close the Red Sea

19:22

to commercial traffic, to Hezbollah launching

19:25

missiles at northern Israel, to Shia

19:28

militia groups in Iraq and Syria attacking

19:30

American and other positions, and what Iran

19:32

itself has done, pirating vessels off the

19:35

high seas and taking back

19:37

to Iranian territorial waters, didn't

19:39

happen coincidentally. All of these

19:42

terrorist groups have been armed,

19:44

equipped, trained, and financed by

19:46

Iran. And Hamas didn't wake

19:48

up one fine morning and decide it was

19:50

going to attack Israel. We know

19:52

what the larger Iranian objectives are. They

19:54

want hegemony in the region and hegemony

19:57

within Islam. What their objectives are

19:59

in this. particular implementation

20:01

of their, what they call their

20:03

ring of fire strategy, we don't

20:05

know. But the idea that somehow

20:07

that these issues are unrelated or

20:10

that our actions in self-defense after

20:12

the killing of Americans is a

20:15

cause of escalation, I think is a

20:17

misperception of the strategic reality. Jake

20:19

Sullivan, your security advisor, was

20:21

asked yesterday whether action

20:23

could include targeting Iran

20:26

itself. He wouldn't say, do you

20:28

think that should be on the table? Do you think that

20:30

should be part of the plan? Absolutely.

20:32

And I think what the United States and

20:34

others have done so far since the Sunday

20:36

attack that killed three American service members

20:39

is correct. I don't have any disagreement with

20:41

it. I think the issue is whether it

20:44

will be adequate. And let me just

20:46

put it in straightforward political terms. I

20:48

think the Biden administration made it clear

20:50

to Iran that killing Americans

20:52

was a red line. Now whether

20:55

that's the right red line or not, we

20:57

can discuss. And the Iranian-backed

20:59

Shia militia crossed it.

21:02

Now Iran has said it's a red line

21:04

if you attack inside our

21:06

territory. That's precisely why

21:09

we should do it. They

21:11

don't get to set the rules that

21:13

give them immunity from feeling

21:15

the cost of their actions. And

21:17

there will be no deterrence against

21:20

Iran until they feel pain. And

21:22

right now, since October the 7th,

21:24

they felt no pain at all.

21:26

I guess the wider question here is whether

21:28

you can end the animosity, solve the

21:31

crisis without solving

21:33

Gaza at the heart

21:35

of it. Our Foreign Secretary David Cameron, you'll

21:37

know, suggested last week the UK could recognize

21:39

a Palestinian state after

21:42

a ceasefire. Is he right?

21:44

He's absolutely wrong. He is

21:46

adopting Yasser Arafat's approach in

21:48

1988, 1989 and 1990

21:51

to have quote unquote Palestine declared

21:53

a state by the United Nations

21:55

by being admitted to UN agencies.

21:58

We're not talking about recognizing state

22:00

of mind here. A state

22:02

has to have certain things like

22:04

a capital, a defined territory, a

22:07

functioning government, none of which exists

22:09

for the hypothetical state of Palestine.

22:11

So Yasser Arafat was wrong, David

22:13

Cameron's wrong, the Biden administration is

22:15

wrong. And the central issue

22:18

here, the cause, the root cause

22:20

is not Gaza, it's

22:22

Iran. It's the mullahs in Tehran.

22:25

I guess one of the questions that will

22:27

haunt this whole period now going into the election

22:29

is whether military intervention is

22:31

actually making a Trump victory more

22:34

likely. We know that Trump supporters

22:36

often cite the notion that he

22:38

is keeping them, as they see

22:40

it, out of foreign wars. Well,

22:43

it may be. Certainly a Trump victory

22:45

would not be in the best interest

22:47

of the United States. I've been doing

22:49

what I could to help prevent it.

22:51

But the reason this would redound to

22:53

Biden's detriment is not what Trump supporters

22:55

think. It's the massive split within the

22:57

Democratic Party. The enormous

22:59

upwelling of anti-Israel sentiment,

23:02

particularly among young people, which Biden

23:04

will rely on heavily in November,

23:07

I think it caught the administration and

23:09

much of the Democratic Party by surprise.

23:11

But they're more worried about defections from

23:13

the left wing of their party than

23:15

from the Trump supporters. But I guess

23:17

you're still playing into Trump's hands by

23:19

putting America in a place where it is

23:22

militarily involved. There will be many people who

23:24

say Trump's the guy, he was the guy

23:26

that kept us out of the foreign wars.

23:29

Well, there are a lot of contradictions

23:31

in the Trump position. And what he

23:33

will say or do about what's happening

23:35

in the Middle East now, we don't

23:37

know. But what I can tell you

23:39

is what the national security interests of

23:41

the United States requires, in my view.

23:43

And that means the president should override

23:45

temporary political concerns. I think

23:47

actually, if Biden showed more leadership, he

23:50

would have a better chance of being

23:52

reelected than this hesitant, feckless approach he's

23:55

taken since October the 7th. If

23:57

Trump is elected, what do you think Ukraine...

23:59

Ukraine's future looks like and what does NATO's

24:02

future look like? I think Trump will withdraw

24:04

from NATO at the earliest opportunity. I think

24:06

he's made it clear that if

24:08

he were elected, he would try to get Zelensky and

24:11

Putin in a room together and solve the problem in

24:13

24 hours. That obviously

24:15

won't happen. When it doesn't

24:17

happen, of course, that won't be Trump's fault.

24:19

So it has to be somebody else's fault.

24:21

And I fear very much it will turn

24:24

out to be Zelensky's fault. What does Ukraine

24:26

look like? I think it will be partitioned

24:28

at a minimum along the line of control

24:30

on the battlefield today. And

24:32

I think if Putin, after regrouping

24:35

and recovering from the catastrophic losses

24:37

the Russian military suffered, came

24:40

back in and started hostilities again later

24:42

in a second Trump term, the United

24:44

States would not oppose it. Do

24:46

you recognize the Republican Party today? I

24:48

mean, your political career began with Reagan.

24:50

I wonder if you recognize the party

24:52

of Reagan's peace through strength when you

24:55

look at where the Republican Party is

24:57

today. The battle for the party goes

24:59

on. And I think the majority of

25:01

people in the party are still Reaganite.

25:03

I think Trump is an aberration. And

25:06

I think when he passes from the scene one

25:08

way or the other, the aberration will correct itself.

25:11

Trump has no philosophy. He doesn't think

25:13

in policy terms. And therefore,

25:15

there will be no heir to Trumpism

25:17

because there is no Trumpism. And

25:20

there are lots of people in the party who

25:22

think exactly along the lines I've just described who

25:25

feel they're not in a position to speak

25:27

out. Those of us who are in a

25:29

position will continue to carry this battle right

25:31

through until November and for four years after

25:33

that if Trump's elected. And

25:35

as long as it takes to get the

25:37

party back to its Reaganite roots. Is there a

25:40

path for Nikki Haley in this race still? Should she

25:42

hold on? Well, I Think she should

25:44

continue up until the convention in August. I

25:46

Think it's still possible, unlikely, but possible that

25:48

there's a way to prevent Trump from getting

25:51

the nomination. And I Think in a way,

25:53

she should carry the flag for all the

25:55

people who don't want to see Trump get

25:57

the nomination. That doesn't necessarily mean... She'll

26:00

get it, but she would do a service

26:02

to the party and the contrary to hold

26:04

that possibility open so I hope she stays

26:06

up with it wrong. Of the are and

26:08

seats as the actual Republican National Committee

26:10

to put pressure on her to pull

26:12

ourselves to New Hampshire see said they

26:14

were clearly not an honest broker Do

26:16

said that ceiling. Yes, I I

26:18

think that's not the function of the

26:21

Republican National Committee. it's that ensure a

26:23

fair and open nomination process. And I

26:25

think go The chairwoman run around and

26:27

Mcdaniel made a big mistake and suggesting

26:30

that Nikki get out and for her

26:32

troubles. Run. Around the with Daniel

26:34

has now heard through a press interview

26:36

by Donald Trump over the weekend and she'll

26:39

likely be replaced as party Chairman because he

26:41

doesn't like the job she's doing. that

26:43

that is typical fags from Donald Trump. No.

26:45

Evil. It's lazy with Donald Trump. You

26:48

seem what he's like when he loses

26:50

lists. Cheney, the congresswoman his stood up

26:52

to some the voted for his impeachment

26:54

indeed has cooled on the senior figures

26:56

who have worked with him. To.

26:58

Speak out to stand up to be

27:01

counted even. Is there a political even

27:03

in the military? decent? there isn't. And

27:05

Paris's see your colleagues. The people who

27:08

you know who have not actually. Spoken

27:10

out now to do so well. I think

27:12

the more who do the better to help

27:14

make the case. Why Trump's not fit to

27:16

be President? I mean I guess if

27:18

we look at legislators see has

27:21

said. Many. In her

27:23

policy. This. Is Liz Cheney have

27:25

lost their spines? and I'm sure the

27:27

he reflected long and hard on this.

27:29

But there was a moments that seems

27:31

to be ten days a fortnight after

27:33

the Jenny The Six Insurrection when it

27:35

sounded like the grown ups in your

27:37

party with a pair to call him

27:39

out. The being about Liza of being

27:41

a danger to the country for being

27:43

an election denial, a man who seemingly

27:46

have no respect for the constitution. And

27:48

then that all changed. I mean, we

27:50

remember the words of Kevin Mccarthy. remember

27:52

the woods of Mitch Mcconnell and. The

27:54

that all disappeared. What happens? well i

27:56

think different people are in different circumstances but

27:58

i think trump has an inch intimidation factor.

28:01

I think Kevin McCarthy made a

28:03

catastrophic mistake by going down to

28:05

Mar-a-Lago to visit Trump shortly

28:07

after he left office. I think that

28:09

was entirely the wrong signal. And I

28:11

think a lot of people are afraid

28:13

that they would face a primary challenge

28:15

by a Trump-backed candidate in a district

28:18

where their main concern is not the

28:20

Democrat they would face in November, but

28:22

the Republican they would see in a

28:24

primary. It is a question of intimidation.

28:26

So there's good news and bad news there. The

28:29

good news is these people really don't like Donald

28:31

Trump. They worry about him. They don't agree with

28:33

a lot of what he does. The bad news

28:35

is they're too intimidated to speak up. But this

28:38

to me is one of the reasons I think

28:40

the evidence is on the side that

28:43

Trump is an aberration who is

28:45

causing tremendous damage, but an aberration

28:47

who will not leave anybody

28:49

to follow after him. I guess the question

28:51

is, what's the point of being

28:53

in politics, of being a legislator,

28:56

if you're too intimidated to do

28:58

the right thing when it's absolutely

29:00

about upholding the Constitution, when it's

29:02

absolutely about serving the voters? I'm

29:05

wondering how you reflect on those people

29:07

in your party. Not least, Mike Johnson.

29:09

You know, the actual Speaker of the

29:11

House was one of those who was

29:13

doing Trump's bidding in trying to declare

29:16

an election that he lost a win.

29:18

Well, in terms of intimidation, I

29:20

think it's a sad commentary on those

29:23

who are intimidated. But I'll say this,

29:25

knowing a lot of politicians in both

29:27

parties, in a comparable set

29:29

of circumstances on the Democratic side, you'd

29:31

see exactly the same thing. But there

29:33

isn't that at the moment. All I'm asking you is

29:36

to reflect a little bit, maybe, to help us reflect

29:38

on the state of the Republican

29:40

Party, where they can be so

29:42

intimidated by one man that they haven't

29:45

acted in a way that would preserve the

29:47

Constitution. Well, I think

29:49

we've spent a good part of time here explaining

29:51

why I don't like it at all. But I

29:53

do not acknowledge that means that the party is

29:55

irretrievably in Trump's hands. Talk to me about the

29:58

border deal that's going to happen. on

30:00

at the moment because that seems to exemplify

30:03

exactly where the party has

30:05

got to. This place

30:07

where, I mean even Mitch McConnell sounds

30:10

as if he's recognized that

30:12

if Trump doesn't want Republican senators to get

30:14

this deal across because it would make it

30:16

harder for him to then get

30:18

elected, then they will not vote

30:21

for a border deal which could solve one

30:23

of the biggest problems for American voters. Well

30:25

I don't think that's McConnell's position. I think

30:27

the Senate will vote on the

30:30

deal that's been negotiated and I think

30:32

that what you're seeing is exactly the

30:34

effect that Trump has

30:36

and the reason that he has

30:38

it. Trump's not opposed to this

30:40

deal because he opposes it substantively.

30:43

I don't think he's read it and if

30:45

he did he probably wouldn't understand it. The

30:47

reason he has given to oppose

30:49

the deal is that he doesn't want to

30:51

give Biden anything that looks like the appearance

30:54

of a victory and he

30:56

wants to use the illegal immigration question

30:58

against Biden. So what this is is

31:00

a graphic demonstration that

31:02

Trump has no philosophy at

31:04

all on immigration even thought

31:07

to be his most important issue. There's no

31:10

philosophical bent on it. It's all

31:12

about what makes Donald Trump look good. I

31:14

guess what I'm asking is you can criticize

31:17

Donald Trump until you're you know blue in

31:19

the face and you have been very vocal about it

31:22

but whilst there are people around

31:24

him continually propping him up and

31:26

making all this possible then

31:28

it's kind of a waste of breath. Are

31:30

you taking this message to you know it

31:32

was Mitch McConnell who said reportedly it'd be

31:34

unwise to move forward with the deal. We

31:37

don't want to see anything undermine Trump. That's

31:39

not what he said. You know

31:41

reporters occasionally make mistakes. I'd love to

31:43

have the clarification if you're in the room that would be

31:45

helpful. Sure he was reflecting on the effect

31:47

that Trump has had in the House

31:50

undermining support for the bill. It was

31:52

a statement of the political reality not

31:54

his preference. So do you think

31:57

that you would like to hear

31:59

Kevin McCarthy? to hear Mitch McConnell,

32:01

you'd like to hear these people in positions

32:03

of real Republican leadership speak out

32:05

now, be more brave, show a spine. Well

32:07

I think different ones do it in different

32:10

ways. I think McConnell's been very clear what

32:12

he thinks about Donald Trump. He has not

32:14

spoken to him since before January the 6th

32:16

2020. What does that tell you? Can

32:18

I ask you about project 25? We

32:21

understand it's backed by the conservative think tank

32:23

the Heritage Foundation. They call it

32:25

a presidential transition project. It

32:27

sounds as if it is a blueprint

32:29

to consolidate power in the executive

32:32

branch. In other words to dismantle

32:34

federal agencies and to give more power

32:36

to the executive even

32:38

to give the Department of Justice

32:40

to the presidential executive. I mean

32:43

do you think this is a project

32:45

that Trump would enact if he got

32:47

in and can you see the value

32:49

of it as a Republican? Well

32:51

I haven't seen all the specifics of

32:53

it and it covers a huge range

32:56

of issues. So let

32:58

me just take the Justice Department as

33:00

one example. A lot of people

33:02

in the United States and elsewhere seem to

33:04

think the Justice Department is independent of the

33:06

White House and it is not. The

33:09

Constitution is very clear. Article

33:12

2 section 1 first sentence it says

33:14

the executive power shall be

33:16

vested in a president of the

33:18

United States and the

33:20

prosecutorial power is critical to

33:23

the broader executive power. The

33:25

Attorney General is the hand of the

33:27

president in taking care

33:29

that the president exercise his

33:32

constitutional responsibilities especially

33:34

in prosecutions. What

33:36

that means is that the

33:38

president has enormous authority

33:41

over the Department of

33:43

Justice and he should. The Constitution

33:45

also, can I just finish please?

33:48

The Constitution also says the president

33:50

shall take care that the laws

33:53

be faithfully executed which

33:55

means they must be executed in

33:57

an even-handed manner. Okay so do you

33:59

think that's not how happening now? Well, I think

34:01

the laws would not be faithfully

34:03

executed if Donald Trump became president. I

34:05

think it's a concern. But this idea

34:08

that somehow the Justice Department is independent

34:10

of the president is a bad mistake.

34:12

Let me just give you a more

34:14

contemporary example. Some people

34:17

would be appalled at

34:19

the idea that the president might

34:21

appoint his own brother as attorney

34:23

general. Really, wouldn't that compromise the

34:25

independence of the department? Your complaint

34:27

there is with John F. Kennedy.

34:29

The Justice Department is just as much

34:31

a part of the executive branch as

34:33

every other department. I guess what I'm trying to

34:35

get to the bottom of is whether you think there is a problem

34:38

at the moment, i.e. it isn't

34:40

close enough to the presidency, or whether you

34:42

think, as Donald Trump does,

34:44

that Joe Biden controls the Department of

34:46

Justice because you can't really have it

34:48

both ways, right? No, I don't think Joe

34:50

Biden knows what the Department of Justice is doing.

34:53

And I think that's a mistake from his own

34:55

point of view. If he has priorities

34:58

as president, he's entitled to have the department

35:00

carry them out. If he thinks there ought

35:02

to be more prosecution of illegal immigrants, he

35:04

can direct that. If he thinks there should

35:06

be a change in antitrust enforcement policy, he

35:08

can do that. Those are

35:10

just two examples. We just spoke to

35:13

Chris Steele, who is the former MI6 officer,

35:15

of course you'll know him, who produced the

35:17

dossier that embarrassed Donald Trump so much that

35:19

he then tried to sue him and bring

35:21

him to court. The

35:23

real concern is that

35:26

there will be people in the security services

35:29

in the U.S. right now who

35:32

will not come forward with what

35:34

they know about Russia political interference

35:37

because they think it will jeopardize their jobs

35:39

and their careers in a future

35:41

Trump administration. Well, it's possible. I

35:43

can tell you in the time

35:45

I served as national security adviser,

35:47

nobody in any of the intelligence

35:49

agencies failed to talk about

35:51

what their concerns were. And in

35:54

fact, in 2018, in September,

35:56

we drove a major change in

35:58

decision making. processes for

36:01

offensive cyber operations, changing

36:03

the Obama policy, which was very

36:05

weak, and allowed the

36:07

National Security Agency to do a good

36:10

deal to disrupt Russian efforts to influence

36:12

our 2018 election. So

36:15

there was a case when Trump was

36:17

president where the intelligence services saw

36:19

the risk and we took offensive action to

36:21

prevent it. You know, maybe that will happen

36:24

in a second Trump term, maybe it won't.

36:26

Does it worry you that it might not?

36:28

That people will feel too intimidated to come forward?

36:30

Sure it does, that's why I'm against

36:32

Trump being president among other reasons. Ambassador

36:34

Bolson, thank you. Thank you. Meanwhile,

36:50

you are asking, we can hear you

36:52

asking, where are the women? Where are

36:54

the women? Well, where is the one

36:56

woman? And the one woman that we

36:58

have been talking about pretty much nonstop

37:01

since the Republican presidential

37:03

nominations kicked off is Nikki

37:05

Haley. And Nikki Haley,

37:07

who is within the next

37:09

three weeks trying to fight for her

37:11

political life in South Carolina at

37:13

that primary, is right now

37:15

appearing on a kind

37:17

of liberal comedy skit show

37:19

called Saturday Night Live. Just

37:22

have a listen. My

37:25

question is, why won't you debate Nikki

37:27

Haley? Oh my god,

37:29

it's her. The woman who was in

37:31

charge of security on January 6th, it's

37:34

Nancy Pelosi. For

37:37

the 100th time, that is

37:39

not Nancy Pelosi, it is

37:41

Nikki Haley. Are you

37:43

doing okay, Donald? You might need a mental

37:45

competency test. You know what I did? I

37:47

took the test and I aced it, okay? Perfect score. They said

37:49

I'm 100% mental. You

37:52

know, I'm confident because I'm a man. That's why

37:55

a woman should never run our economy. Women

37:57

are terrible with money. In fact, a woman I

37:59

know recently... asked me for 83.3 million dollars. And

38:04

you spent 50 million dollars in your

38:06

own legal fees. You need to borrow some money?

38:09

Oh Nicky, don't do this Nicky. Nicky

38:12

Tiki Tavi. Nicky

38:14

don't lose that number. Nicky Haley, Joel

38:17

Osment. Nicky Haley, Joel Osment we call her.

38:19

Six cents, remember that one? I see dead

38:21

people. I mean, okay, two things to say.

38:24

One, it's not that funny, is it, for

38:26

British audiences? It's kind of like a bit

38:28

lame. But I guess the question is,

38:30

why is she doing this? Like, she hasn't

38:33

given up on the race. She hasn't given

38:35

up wanting to be the actual president. And

38:37

she hasn't given up wanting to take that

38:39

fight to Donald Trump for the Republican nomination.

38:42

It just feels slightly as if

38:44

she has, unless somebody said, this

38:46

is the way to secure the

38:48

nomination, go and be popular. I tried, in

38:51

all the years that I lived in America, to

38:54

learn to love Saturday Night Live

38:56

and failed. I just kind of,

38:58

it's labored, it's clunky. The

39:01

jokes, you can see them coming from a

39:03

mile away and they thunder up the hill,

39:05

the hooves clattering. Oh, here's a

39:07

punch line, boom, and it lands.

39:10

And obviously that wasn't the real

39:12

Donald Trump, but it was the

39:14

real Nicky Haley playing against an

39:16

actor who is spoofing Trump. So

39:18

look, Nicky Haley, it's the last

39:20

roll of the dice. I

39:23

think it's delaying the inevitable that she's not

39:25

going to win in South Carolina. I

39:28

suspect she felt she couldn't say no

39:30

to the chance of appearing on Saturday

39:32

Night Live. I don't think that Trumpland

39:34

watches Saturday Night Live. Trump absolutely hated

39:37

the caricature that Alec Baldwin did of

39:39

him when Trump was in the White

39:41

House and was furious about it and

39:43

would rage about how unfunny it was.

39:46

I mean, he might've been half right

39:48

that it was unfunny, but actually Alec

39:50

Baldwin did a pretty good impression. And

39:53

I just kind of think that, you know, Haley

39:55

has got a few weeks left to

39:57

go, but surely, surely by March.

40:00

we will know that it is

40:02

Trump versus Biden 2.0, the rematch,

40:05

the grudge match, whatever it is,

40:08

and that Nikki Haley is doing what

40:10

she can to shore up support, but

40:12

there's no sign really that the polls

40:14

are closing to such an extent that

40:16

she has any path to victory. And

40:18

while we're talking about public

40:21

appearances, interesting President Biden was

40:23

invited to do the Super Bowl interview.

40:25

Now, I don't know what context we

40:27

can put this in because the numbers

40:29

for the Super Bowl in the US

40:31

are unbelievable. You know, it's kind of

40:33

a World Cup and a

40:35

Royal Engagement kind of rolled into

40:37

one. The numbers are outstanding in

40:40

terms of eyeballs or audience eyeballs.

40:43

And Joe Biden was invited, I

40:45

think by CBS to do the

40:47

pre warm up interview for the

40:49

Super Bowl, which is this week.

40:51

And we understand that he has

40:53

now pulled out or deferred

40:55

or said no. Turns it down, second

40:57

year running. It suggests kind

41:00

of a fear of the improvised,

41:02

doesn't it? Well, I mean, he's recently

41:04

in the last 2448 hours,

41:07

talked about meeting the German leader, Francois

41:09

Mitterrand. Right, right after I was elected,

41:11

I went to what they call a

41:14

G7 meeting, all the NATO meetings. I

41:17

was in the south of England.

41:20

And I sat down and I said, America's

41:22

back. And Mitterrand from

41:24

Germany, I mean, from France looked at

41:26

me and said, you know,

41:30

why, how long you back?

41:36

Oh, Jesus. Yeah, Mitterrand has

41:38

been dead now since I think 1996.

41:42

And even when he was alive, wasn't very German. And

41:46

even when he was alive, he wasn't

41:48

very German. So, you know, the

41:51

Biden team are

41:53

having to be very

41:55

careful in rationing

41:57

his appearances. So you minimize.

42:00

the risk of something catastrophic

42:02

happening when there is

42:05

a huge television audience watching.

42:07

The reverse of what is

42:09

normal politics when politicians think

42:11

big audience I'm there count

42:13

me in. Yeah it's an

42:15

extraordinary state of affairs isn't it really if you're

42:18

actually trying to hide your president from

42:20

the public from the voters. It's an odd place

42:22

to be. Anyway we

42:24

will be back next week with the

42:26

newsagents USA and of course you can

42:28

find us on Global Player. Yeah and

42:30

a whole new tranche of spiders I'm

42:32

looking forward to studying in your absence. Bye

42:35

for now. Bye. This

42:38

has been a Global Player original

42:41

podcast and a Percifeneca production.